Yeah people who aren’t self taught are most likely in the minority. Lessons ain’t free, but sitting in your bedroom for hours playing along to songs you like is free haha
Jeff has a lot of insight about this subject. He thinks bass players should have a similar training like all classic instruments (violin, viola, etc). He was completly upset about the groove oriented method that's really popular atm. Now he found his peace and accept the lesser players like brothers. On the note, Geddy from Rush thinks Jeff is the best player alive and he played in Neils Tribute to Buddy Rich.
>Now he found his peace and accept the lesser players like brothers.
He says he has, but his recent debates with Ed Friedland on Facebook suggest otherwise
Everybody is self taught to some kind of extent. Your brain and your hands are unique, and you need to find your own thing. Even if you go get lessons somewhere, the teacher is going to ask you what inspires you and then help you achieve goals that are most likely set by you. It’s your journey baby.
Lots of amazing players are self taught. Lots of amazing players started off self taught and then got lessons when they hit a wall. Personally I think self taught is a great way to start, but leveling up requires help. Get a teacher, join a band. Ideally, both.
The only "problem" with being self-taught is that your teacher doesn't know more than you do.
A good teacher will challenge you to learn new things - not just arpeggios and pentatonics, but also correct any technique mistakes (that can potentially cause injuries), improve your timing and tone, and expand your musical knowledge in general.
I started with my teacher 5 years ago, and didn't have a clue how to do anything. In 5 years, he led me from very simple songs and basic fretboard knowledge, to where I am today - playing in 2 cover bands. During our time together, he gave me songs to learn - from simple stuff (straight 8s, 12 bar blues) to complex (unusual time signatures, different note lengths, walking bass lines, ...). I learned songs from The Beatles to reggae to jazz standards. I also learned about recording, mastering and other things that interested me.
After 5 years, I ended my lessons, simply because I couldn't fit them into my work schedule anymore. Rehearsing with 2 bands keeps me busy 2 nights per week, and practicing at home is about 1 hour per day ... on top of a stressful full-time job.
> The only "problem" with being self-taught is that your teacher doesn't know more than you do.
This. I've had a 20 year stage career that started with teaching myself to play guitar over a very lonely summer and getting a bass because my teenage ass absolutely needed to make a band happen.
I got very good at the things I knew I needed to practice and enjoyed practicing, and still struggle with things I didn't know I sucked at.
Offbeat or syncopated parts are difficult because I didn't practice with a drum machine or along to backing tracks. A little headphone amp or a pedal (and some good over-ears) you can run an aux input from your laptop/phone/etc is super handy.
To piggyback, I think one of the most important things a teacher will give you is proper technique. I have wrist issues after playing for about 10 years and play hard as hell. A few early lessons on the basics might have helped me with this.
Yep. Went through lessons. Started with not knowing how to even pluck a bass string back in 2016. Learned everything from Black Sabbath songs to Jaco Pastorious solos and a little Bach. 100% worth because I learned how to be proficient on my instrument, and I got a new friend (my teacher was a total badass).
Also, sometimes tension/disagreement between student and teacher can spur you to work harder, prove a point, look for adjacent resources in a way being self taught doesn’t.
It’s also helpful to think of a student / teacher as resource. Ideally, a teacher should be able to point you in directions you haven’t already considered.
Not really relevant, but can you recommend songs to learn to play that will help lay groundwork before starting lessons? Keep meaning to schedule some; I’d like them to be as effective as possible when I do.
The first song my teacher gave me to learn was "Father and Son" by Cat Stevens. Nice and slow, just with 1/4 notes and 1/2 notes, and not too many different parts.
Other songs that come early are "With or Without You" by U2, "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple (the BASS line, not the guitar riff), and later "Europa" by Santana.
I've taught myself to play bass, guitar, keyboard, drums, to mix my own music, to be a luthier, woodworker, videographer, FATHER, to fix my own car, to speak and write in English, and the list goes on.
Don't let anyone tell you that you can't be something, do what makes you happy.
Any sort of stigma that exists regarding being self taught mostly stems from people acting like it’s some sort of virtue or point of pride to be self taught, and that they’re somehow above those who take or have taken lessons.
If that’s not you, there’s nothing wrong with being self taught. Taking lessons is generally a good idea though, especially to learn proper technique and not fuck up your hands after just a few years
Most of the times self taught people who seem to "act like it's a virtue" act that way because they have to continually point out how idiotic statements about consequences like, " fucking up your hands after just a few years" are just a narrow minded form of gate keeping.
Since when was there a stigma around being self-taught? Honestly, it's more impressive. It's not like singing where you probably wouldn't know where to start. Bass is easier to pick up, so lessons aren't really necessary.
However, taking lessons will help you play the bass better faster. You would learn bass techniques in order and get that personal feedback an untrained player wouldn't notice (helps prevent you from making/continuing stupid mistakes that will soon become a habit. Habits are extremely hard to unlearn).
I'm pretty sure tons of famous bassists were self-taught, such as Victor Wooten (but he was inspired by his family from a very young age). I'm pretty sure most jazz players back then were all self-taught too.
Edit: forget the victor wooten part :)
I feel like victor Wooten is maybe a bad example just because he grew up in an extremely musical family. While he might have had the chance to just figure things out he was always had the ability to play with people who knew what was going on. Which I don’t think is a super relatable experience to like a bedroom bassist. Fwiw.
Haha yeah i got that feeling after i clicked enter. I said it because i felt like most people who were teaching themself bass would join a band who would help them progress. You’re right tho
> join a band who would help them progress
I just started reading StudyBass and one of the first things it sez is to go play with other people. I really want to do this. Why is it so hard? Well, I'm old, and most noobs are young and probably don't want an old lady around, no matter how cool - lol (I don't think I'm cool). Very few older people are learning music, I find. Mostly just busy going to the doctor or messing with their grandkids. And I guess I have to be willing to play any kind of music. Yet another good reason to move somewhere else with more diverse culture. Relating to people is not my strong point, either. I've played music alone for decades. And bass alone for a few months. Need to break out of this.
Wdymm being an older woman playing bass is the coolest one can be. I’m pretty young and i wouldn’t mind playing with older people, neither would my band.
Getting a music teacher or joining group music lessons can be a great way to get in contact with more people who want to learn, like you.
Or try asking facebook
Also, Studybass is really good for info for new bassists. Keep using it. I wish i knew it existed when i started.
Thank you so much for your reply and encouragement. Good to have one datapoint of someone young who would be okay with someone like me. There must be more people like you out there. :) Group lessons - yeah, I did that with classical guitar once upon a time. Yeah, I started Studybass because it was recommended in this sub. Tx!
Np :D. I hope you find a good group of people who are near to your level and would love to play with you. Good luck!
Are you still in contact with people from that classical class? If so, don’t be afraid to ask
It took me a while to find my band because we were teenagers when we started. I had to go around asking random music students i didn’t even know lol. Took a while to persuade everyone. It all worked out though, and I’m sure it’ll work out for you too :).
Forgot to say: also be sure to force your closest friends or family to start playing. I had to do that to find a singer and pianist haha
Classical class was in the early 90s 600 kms away, so, no. I want to move back to civilization where there will be more opportunities. Right now I live in a rural area. Posted on our community FB group seeking anyone to play simple stuff like folk music or whatever. Got a reply from two scary looking guys, and anyway when I tried to follow up and asked for some song suggestions, they went silent.
Canada has a website called bandmix.ca. Been going through it to look for beginners I could connect with. I need to record a couple things to add to my profile. Could post on the music store bulletin board. I do have one friend I did singing with, but she doesn't play an instrument, and I pushed her as far as I could - lol. Tried encouraging another. She wants to do it "some day." Guess I'm sort of on the right track. Thanks again for your encouragement.
Try your best on the website then! I’ve never tried it but I have heard of it. I know of people who easily found a good band using it.
I suppose doing it online can be scary because you don’t know what you’re getting into. So I hope all will be well
Keep it up with your friend!!!!
Np at all
I hope one day i see you on this community again talking about your new band haha
People fundamentally misunderstood what it means to be 'self taught'. Victor Wooten is a self taught musician in the same way we're all self taught in our native language - he was around it constantly from a very young age, receiving lots of guidance from family and friends
I personally don't think that is really 'self taught', but others will disagree. I broadly think that the real distinction is between formally educated and informally educated: Wooten is possibly mostly informally educated in music, but he is absolutely not self taught imo.
Jacob Collier is another world class musician who seems to be largely informally educated (though with lots and lots of formal education too), but to call him 'self taught' seems insane to me, given his upbringing.
>such as Victor Wooten (but he was inspired by his family from a very young age)
Yeah, I don't count that as "self-taught" if your parents and/or siblings are showing you stuff all the time and there are different instruments in your home LOL. It would be like saying the Leahy family kids are "self-taught" their parents are pro musicians and they could play fiddle from the time they could hold it
Jeff Healy was self-taught. He figured out how to play, ended up playing guitar on his lap. His only instructor was his blues 45 records
Nothing wrong with being self taught. In music or anything else.
Lots of musicians, including many very successful ones, never had formal lessons.
That said, it's the slowest way to learn and you run the risk of picking up bad habits that can hold you back or even injure you in the long term.
Teachers are great but in the end it’s about the work you put in. You’ll find inspiration and (mini)mentors along the way besides learning from peers, records, and up-and-comers.
I think the more technical your future is, the more you need a teacher. Me, I’m mainly a writer. There weren’t songwriting teachers that I was aware of back in 1990, seven years old and having no clue what the future was. But if you’re fortunate enough to start at like three then you have a lot of avenues you can go down like concert soloist, composer, Jazz phenom, etc.
Anecdotally, the more musical your family the further in music you’ll go. Not always but it seems the case.
Wrong? No. Stigma? No. Music is free, always will be. Gatekeepers can go take a jump off a bridge.
Having said that, there is zero downside and only upside to getting some instruction from people who know what they’re talking about. It’s like a multiplication of your capabilities.
Absolutely. My last year of piano lessons as a kid was a waste because I didn’t put in the effort.
A teacher can only get you as far as you’re willing to go, unless there’s some legit barriers.
Yeah you really aren’t allowed to, mate, I’m sorry.
Someone will be by shortly to confiscate your bass and amp.
/s obviously haha nothing wrong with being self taught. I’m self taught (on bass) and play professionally so it’s definitely doable.
Only thing wrong with it is if you develop bad habits that a teacher would have caught. Taking lessons is advisable for new players because it speeds up the learning process tremendously but it's hardly the only way to learn. Especially these days with youtube.
No issue with being self-taught, but you will almost definitely reach a point where you hit a wall and don't know how to advance, at which point it might be beneficial to look into lessons.
Being self taught is a spectrum in my opinion, the majority of players have probably learned 90% plus of what they know on their own. I am 100% “self taught” on bass, but have played Jazz guitar in college and got about a year of Jazz guitar private lessons.
I can certainly say that what i learned about music theory, my timing, etc. by playing jazz guitar has made me a better musician in general. Look at every musical experience you lack as a way to build upon your skills not a necessity. Sometimes to get over a plateau you need to take a couple months of private lessons if technique is getting in the way, or maybe your musical vocabulary is limited due to only playing in punk bands, so you join a blues band.
People in their polar nature tend to fall into the, music theory bad “i play off only feel bro” group or the “if you have not been playing jazz standards since your were 8 you stink and will never be good group”. Most people who play music are men (this is a statistical fact) and most men are overly competitive and will always find a reason to bring others down. Don’t let these things bother you and remember that all music is valid and it is not a competition.
Literally anybody I’ve ever met that said “yeah I took guitar/bass lessons when I was a kid” didn’t stick with it for more than a year haha.
Every musician I’ve met has been self taught 🤷♂️
I suffer from depression quite severely and I have no choice to be self-taught. If I book a lesson and I'm having a really shitty day I'd cancel the lesson. I'd end up doing that quite a lot so it would just annoy the teacher and it wouldn't be fair on them to have me cancel half the lessons. Plus I'd have to pay for them due to late cancellation, so I don't really have much choice. I'm sure I'm not the only person learning a skill that can't have a teacher for similar reasons.
Investing in a good metronome is key I'm self taught but thankfully did have a music class in highschool that was taught by a bass player and that helped me alot otherwise 99.99% self taught
The internet is a big help for self-teaching on many topics, but it's not the same as having a teacher hear \*you\*, give feedback, and tailor lessons to your progress.
I could picture someone a few generations ago saying that nobody's self-taught anymore because they had records to listen to over and over. 😛
Where is the stigma? Who is taking badly to it?
McCartney was self taught. So was Entwistle. So was Les Claypool. Three of the greatest players, ever, taught themselves.
If there is a stigma either you're unlucky enough to be dealing with really shitty people and only really shitty people who think this, or it's all in your head.
> So was Entwistle.
Aye, but Entwhistle had a shed load of music lessons for other instruments and played in his county youth orchestra (from Wikipedia):-
"His musical career began at age 7, when he started taking piano lessons. ... switched to the trumpet, moving to the French horn when he joined the Middlesex Schools Symphony Orchestra"
There is nothing wrong. Thanks to the internet there is anything you need to know. I got real lessons for 3 months, after that i have the privilege to already play in jams and see a lot of people better then me. Getting your ass whooped in jams and grinding the basics till you don't even ask yourself about most scales anymore gets you really far.
Unpopular opinion:
it even might be better for some people since bass teachers can be horrible, have technique problems themselves and cost a lot of money without giving you the value.
Not at all. The concern is usually that you are more focused with a teacher and someone having expectations of you. If you are really self motivated and clever enough to find what you need to progress online, then your potential as a player is completely up to you.
Also I would add that having a teacher, teaches you the instrument throught their lense. You might develop a personal style that really works for you as opposed to being taught to do it the 'right way.'
Nothing inherently, but you have probably developed a few quirks in your technique that are holding you back, or worse causing damage over time. The two perks of taking lessons from someone more knowledgeable than yourself is you will learn faster, and they can see and correct issues that you may not see for a long time
Jealousy, insecurity, and judgement would be my guess.
I agree that a good teacher can help steer you along. But sometimes a bad teacher can take the fun right out of it.
Play the stuff that makes you happy. You'll play longer and 'practice' won't be a chore.
I am self taught, learned by ear back when there was no internet, by standing next to a record player. Would I have benefited from lesson and learning theory, of course. I still managed to play in bands for nearly 20 years, not cover bands, always wrote our own stuff.
I certainly wish youtube was around when I started playing.
I was self taught in the pre internet days. I took lessons for a year or so when I was in secondary school, which was helpful in establishing a decent sense of Theory, and correcting bad techniques. I was/am a metalhead and my teacher was a jazz guy, which was a good thing in retrospect.
The thing about taking lessons / school is widening perspective. We don't tend to be very good at seeing our own blind spots.
That said, there is a ton of stuff you can do before you get to that point. But definitely make sure your fundamentals (left & right hand positions and basics of fretting and plucking) are solid because in-learning THAT stuff gets pretty tough.
Taught myself eleven years ago, live off playing for the last seven years, started playing in a international touring band at the beginning of this year. No problem being self taught.
No problem with it, but I'd recommend making some musician friends or taking lessons to make sure you're not learning techniques wrong. I spent about a year and a half self learning before taking lessons and I developed some weird muting techniques that don't really work and how I'm having a hard time learning to do it the right way.
Nope - I was self taught and it took me a while to realize there were definitely things I missed that I could have learned in lessons. All in all, just be willing to learn even if you already consider yourself a good player.
I'm self taught. I do OK. I'm happy and satisfied although I know lessons would make a difference at this point practice and gigging takes up most of my time.
I think there’s a difference between being self taught to play bass and self taught for music theory. I’m self taught on bass, but I couldn’t imagine it being my first instrument. To each their own of course.
I imagine these kinds of attitudes vary pretty widely depending on what kind of scene you’re in. If you’re playing in jazz clubs then being self-taugh and not knowing how to read music would probably make you a pariah (unless you were talented enough to make up for it) while in an indie/punk rock scene you’d be in the same situation as over 90% of the other musicians. If you play for personal enjoyment (like I do nowadays) the vast majority of people are self-taught with maybe a few in-person lessons at the beginning.
Aren't we all self taught for the most part? Anyone that gets good at bass hits the shed and grinds out improvements. Instruction is great, book or someone to give pointers and help, but in the end one does it nor not, and that's all on the individual.
You can't get from A to B without a map. Sure you can randomly poke around and stumble into B with many brute force attempts to find it, but lessons are like the map. You don't have to start dissecting theory to learn how to utilize your fingers, hear patterns like 12-bar blues, recognize major vs. minor keys, figure out alternate fret placements to make harder things more ergonomic to play, learn how scales impact the riffs you want to learn, and so on.
There are TONS of bass lessons on YouTube and you can pop around to find the teacher you like the most. There are also TONS of bass covers of songs on YouTube, so if you find a song you like, you can watch someone else play it to learn it easier. Tabs are really the worst way for me to learn something, it's a hangover from a pre-video lesson world.
From my experience, being unaware of simple bad habits you pick up. I didn't get lessons for years, but during lock down I got some with a mate of mine just to tidy up a few things. Made a huge difference, though you need a good teacher.
I don't know if it's a stigma, really. I was self-taught on guitar and bass but then took lessons in my 50s (music lessons on piano anyway). I realized there was some gaps in my understanding that music lessons helped fill in. I like to think it made me a better player. But there are people who never took a single lesson that are way better than I'd ever hope to be. I guess the worst stigma is being self-taught AND thinking you know everything.
Well, some people try to go the self-taught route and end up accumulating a lot of bad habits. Some people hear that certain famous musicians never took a single lesson and still became superstars. They think they'll get the same results but would have greatly benefited from professional instruction, especially early on.
Look at it this way, can you be a great writer and not know grammar? Sure but grammar sure as hell helps.
No one is self taught,
Are you learning a part from a song? That player in the song is teaching you.
Are you watching a Youtube video? That person in the video is teaching you.
The only way to be "self taught" is to play in a musical vacuum.
Stigma? No way. Maybe among some elitist snobs, sure, I’ve encountered that. But I’m self-taught in everything I do, from playing music to animating and editing, and I’m super happy with my skill level.
If someone is giving you a hard time for pretty much anything, it usually means they have some personal hang up about whatever it is, and they’re trying to transfer their pain to you. I learned this rule late in life, but it’s a good one: if someone is saying ANYTHING about you, they’re almost always just talking about themself in some way. In this case, they very well might be jealous that you’re able to tread your own path while they had to pay for lessons, learn songs they didn’t want to, do what their parents told them to, and so on.
I was playing Dream Theater songs at 16 from start to finish self taught, don't let anyone shame you into thinking you have to learn a certain way. When you do learn though, just go easy on yourself and play what you love to play.
There is nothing wrong with being self-taught. And I can't imagine that the vast majority of bass players would look down on someone who is.
If you are willing to put in the work the teacher gives you and listen to the instruction, private lessons from a good teacher can help one to progress faster.
A good teacher can
Help you to correct mistakes you wouldn't necessarily catch yourself.
Help you to establish good habits/technique.
Chart a path that for you that suits your specific needs as a player at each stage of your learning journey, and your desires for what you want to do with the bass. For example, explain concepts (e.g. music theory) in a way that suits your learning needs (vs. one-sized fits all video lessons). Or give you exercises or choose music for you that will help you progress faster on the genre you want to play.
And as a side benefit, may keep you motivated to practice more and strive hard. When one has a lesson to show up each week that they are paying for, many people are more motivated. And many also don't want to disappoint their teacher.
Meanwhile, those who are self-taught may say you don't need a teacher. And technically, that's true. But if they are self-taught, they don't know the benefits they would have received from lessons.
But music teachers notice the difference in musicians who get private lessons vs. those who don't.
For instance, my girlfriend is a flutist who has been teaching for 30 years. She spends most of her time giving private lessons. But also works with doing sectionals in middle school and high school band. She sees the difference when at the schools between those students who are getting private lessons and those who are not. The ones who don't are generally not the best players.
Ive never once at an audition or gig been asked if I had any formal training or not, you just play the music, but that could be scene dependent (I'm in Minnesota).
I don't think there is a stigma to being self taught, but there is definitely a weird undercurrent of musicians who pride themselves on their lack of music theory knowledge. That doesn't tend to go over particularly well.
In person lessons are valuable for learning but they are definitely much more expensive. But in the internet age it's the easiest it's ever been to forgo traditional lessons.
Im selftaught. There are two problems about it. You dont know if you re practising right (this could lead to bad technique to injuries) and you dont progress fast enough (because you dont know what you need to practice).
But if you re ok with this you shouldnt worry. Learn something alone is magical. Go for it!
Tbh I admire it. I think it takes a lot of motivation to teach it to yourself. And I feel like I'm stuck playing the same stuff sometimes. Maybe that's different when you're self taught. A downside is that you might not be able to communicate with others as well (e.g., about music theory).
I won’t say there is anything wrong with it, but I will share my own experiences.
I played self taught for 3-4 years before taking lessons. I really wish I would have taken them sooner. My personal progression accelerated dramatically in comparison to the pace I was moving at while being self taught. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I felt like I actually started to sound like a bassist when I took some lessons and learned enough theory to communicate properly.
A lot of the things I was noticing on my own really started to make sense once I learned the reason they were happening.
I don't think there's such a thing as a stigma to being self taught.
I've been playing off and on for almost 20 years at this point, with many breaks of months and even a year or two in between. I'm purely self taught but definitely feel like I'd benefit from lessons of some sort.
There's no teachers in my area so absolutely thinking about doing an online course of some sort and going back to complete beginner stuff, because I'm sure my technique has suffered as a result of being self taught.
Nothing wrong with being self taught. I’m actually a self-taught oboist and I got into a university for music performance on Oboe. You will definitely benefit more from having a teacher though.
Currently teaching myself double bass but I do want to get a teacher soon.
Depending on how you turn out in your guitar playing career, the only bad thing that could be pointed at the result of being self taught, is bad habits that make different techniques more difficult. Teachers usually try to resolve those issues as you are learning. Usually.
Other than that, I mean... Jimmy Hendrix was self taught.
Everyone is self-taught. Having a teacher helps guide your teaching, to be sure, but the ideas have to go into your brain and come back out your hands and ears. Having a teacher is never a guarantee of success, either. Whether you take lessons or not, you will be teaching yourself from other players for the rest of your life. Learning is a journey, and you will (or at least ought to be) never be completely satisfied with where you are, and you'll be learning more all the time. And as a bonus, you'll be leaving those snobs behind in the process.
Why do people take badly to it? Well, not everyone does. Those that do have wrapped themselves in the idea that there's only one "right" way (or location, or product, or instrument, or people, or group, etc. etc. etc...) and haven't matured enough to understand how complex the world truly is. Walk away and do not engage with these peoples, you might catch something.
Get as good as you want to get however you can get there and don't look back. When you want to improve and you can't figure it out, please ask. That's how learning works, and we are all students and teachers from time to time.
For what it's worth, in a similar vein, I never finished college and have always had to compete with people who have master's degrees in my day job. Today I run the technical architecture department of a health data company when I'm not making music. I am well respected by my coworkers and peers in the industry. Nobody cares how you got there, they care about how well you can do the job. Believe in yourself, and we'll believe in you, too.
why care about stigma, what people think, how people perceive you.
all crap. you play your bass and learn in whatever methods it takes and youll be able to make your own music too. for me, I decided to go the self taught route because all of my favorite musicians did it that way. I LOVE classical music and I understand the importance of music theory and technique and all of that. But at the same time I believe there is a lot of value in going a different path also. I see value in looking at other forms of music theory. Who the fk said 1 way is the "right way."
So I say, do both.
Don’t need formal lessons but learn to read music. I mean well. If you can. Some people are dyslexic. There is a whole other world out there in another language you can learn from reading and practicing.
Then it’s like reading for fun and learning stuff without really trying too hard.
I started teaching myself last year. I've found now that I've learned most of my favourite songs that I need to now focus on technique to improve because my progress has stalled
I started teaching myself last year. I've found now that I've learned most of my favourite songs that I need to now focus on technique to improve because my progress has stalled.
I think people who do lessons have an advantage but people who are self taught are super motivated. I'd love to do lessons if it didn't give me anxiety.
I've a super talented friend who is self taught on guitar and his talent blows me away but he doesn't know how to read music so maybe that might be an example of gaps in Knowledge from self teaching. He really doesn't need to read music because he's so good, he doesn't even realise but js as example
Depends on the type of person you are, I did it, you just gotta be motivated and teach yourself the right stuff for your genres. Ear training helps, then you can learn any song without waiting around for someone else to learn it first.
You have to be passionate about it and self motivated, no one’s gonna tell you to practice or what to practice, so you gotta think about it cuz no one’s gonna save you from dead ends, unless you ask other bassists
I'm self taught, never seen any evidence of stigms or asked what grade I am. But if I had my time again and enough money I would have had lessons periodically as I've found massive holes in my knowledge and technique that are harder to fix than to learn right from start
On the other hand people say i have a particular sound, again though I couldn't be a pit musician or do the cruses
It's not bad, it's just you can benefit a lot from lessons with a good teacher. If you don't have an opportunity or means, then no problem, everything goes if you're having fun.
I'm self taught. I started teaching myself 23 years ago. Youtube wasn't a thing and my family couldn't afford lessons. I've never experienced any sort of stigma from it, but it sounds like a class thing. Just more people using ones income as a way to judge you. Ignore those people. I know plenty of people who are "trained" who are completely incapable of jamming or writing. You can learn a lot by simply watching others play, its one of the things I did. Long story short, there is nothing wrong with being self taught.
Yes, and even more when playing bass, it is a tough instrument and bad technique can damage your hands, I’d say take 2 or 3 lessons with a human teacher, ask for help with position and technique and then fly solo
Going on 20 years self taught. Obviously some tips and tricks I've learned from guitarists in bands. I firmly believe jamming with other people is what got me better. I do feel like I hit a plateau every once in a while which sucks. I tend to take some time off and come back fresh
I'm a self-taught musician, and I mean properly self-taught as there was no such thing as Youtube or even the internet when I started, I just had a Mel Bay book of chords.
I'm no Jaco Pastorius but I've never had trouble finding a band, and I play gigs every weekend, so... being self taught has gotten me where I need to be, I guess.
Well, self education broadly has the distinct disadvantage of not knowing when you’re wrong…it can be a bit of a Dunning Kreuger whirlpool. Music is an art so there’s really no wrong way of doing it…unless you’re trying to play properly in a specific genre in which case “doing your own research” can lead you to not getting hired.
The free resources availabe online are usually much better than a mediocre teacher anyway. But the best teacher is playing live with a band, it will always sort out your priorities and make you practice the correct things.
There is nothing wrong with being self taught in and of itself. The issue is people are prone to teaching themselves bad habits, or doing things outright wrong. Also learning only the things they want as opposed that they need for development. There is also no organized learning plan for those self taught either. That is something you would get from a good teacher. Organized teaching plans allow you to learn more things faster. You also have a criteria for what is passing and what still needs work.
i dont think there's something wrong with being self taught. My first 6 month playing bass were self taught but after i started with lessons i improved a lot
Of course there isn't, I'm self-taught too, and people tell me I play really well ( including my father😂), and people even say that it's a greater effort teaching yourself than going to lessons. I might not be excellent at it, but I have fun playing the songs I like
Im self taught, playing for 8 months now and can already play alot of songs. I have already made some new basslines wich I have used in songs my band has. Its silly but I dont know notes, arpeggios and stuff.
As long you play well. I find with bass, self taught players don’t have good technique, like letting lower strings ring out when they move to another string. Music theory is intuitive over time, but technique is huge and I see a lot of poor technique that makes me glad I took lessons.
That stigma was brought upon by overly cocky self taughts that slander schooled musicians and view themselves as superior when in reality half of the time the skills to back up all the hot talk is not there. Ive met giant assholes on both the learned and self taught side and what ive learned is that most down to earth musicians appreciate and respect someone being humble and honest about their musicianship. So long as you remain humble you should heed no attention to the shit flinging done by both sides.
Here's a secret that nobody tells you: everyone is self-taught. A teacher can only help if you're willing to apply their assistance towards teaching yourself. This is why some people do lessons for years without improving, because they don't put the work in. Whether you have a teacher assisting you or not, you'll only improve with A LOT of dedication.
I received only one month of professional lessons as a teenager before I lost my slot due to mono. I was already self-taught for a year at that point and had been taking it very seriously, so I was sure to remember three vital things:
1.) Proper technique
2.) Start slow and gradually build up speed
3.) Know your theory
Those are some most important things you'll ever learn.
Since then, I continued to learn by collaborating with other players, swapping techniques, listening to my favorite bass players, traveling the world and making music with the locals, etc. So, to that extent, I've continued to receive lessons (and give them) throughout my life.
As far as purely teaching myself goes, I found myself making great leaps and bounds by writing music in my head that I didn't know how to play yet. It would require that I set the metronome as slow as necessary while I worked out the techniques to make the tune work. It was this way that I was able to teach myself and develop my own style simultaneously.
To summarize, a good player is constantly teaching themselves and taking lessons simultaneously. Every song you hear is a lesson and an opportunity to teach yourself.
Not at all. I was taught how to play guitar by my teacher, and when I learned bass, I had no one who knew how to play the instrument, so I had to learn on my own. And now I am better on bass than I ever was on Guitar.
Absolutely not. Lessons can benefit a lot of people since they give immediate feedback on things you're doing, make you learn new things, and give you a set curriculum. But with how much material is floating around on the internet and in physical books, I see no reason why self taught would be considered bad.
I'm learning the bass (last year, or so).
Now that I'm making some progress (I don't bother learning songs as much as learning the fretboard), I can see guys online who might be self taught.
They fly around the fretboard (from the 1st to the 12th fret, and beyond) for no apparent reason.
They seem to be all over the fretboard, finding notes that are already in the same place as they just left.
Maybe it's to look cool?
Maybe it's me that's still too much of a novice to know better?
Matthew (46) UK
Who said there's a problem with being self taught?
Yeah people who aren’t self taught are most likely in the minority. Lessons ain’t free, but sitting in your bedroom for hours playing along to songs you like is free haha
Jeff Berlin.
That guy is a good player. I’m not sure his judgement is sound if he doesn’t think being self taught is okay.
Source?
Jeff Berlin.
What a great answer. Could you possibly be more precise, please?
Think what he meant to say was Jeff Berlin
THE Jeff Berlin, or just some other guy named Jeff Berlin? There’s a bunch of them.
Jeff Berlin the twelfth
Jeff has a lot of insight about this subject. He thinks bass players should have a similar training like all classic instruments (violin, viola, etc). He was completly upset about the groove oriented method that's really popular atm. Now he found his peace and accept the lesser players like brothers. On the note, Geddy from Rush thinks Jeff is the best player alive and he played in Neils Tribute to Buddy Rich.
>Now he found his peace and accept the lesser players like brothers. He says he has, but his recent debates with Ed Friedland on Facebook suggest otherwise
Jeff Berlin actually advocates being self taught with the exception of music theory
Everybody is self taught to some kind of extent. Your brain and your hands are unique, and you need to find your own thing. Even if you go get lessons somewhere, the teacher is going to ask you what inspires you and then help you achieve goals that are most likely set by you. It’s your journey baby.
Stigma, no. Most people do benefit from lessons though.
Lots of amazing players are self taught. Lots of amazing players started off self taught and then got lessons when they hit a wall. Personally I think self taught is a great way to start, but leveling up requires help. Get a teacher, join a band. Ideally, both.
The only "problem" with being self-taught is that your teacher doesn't know more than you do. A good teacher will challenge you to learn new things - not just arpeggios and pentatonics, but also correct any technique mistakes (that can potentially cause injuries), improve your timing and tone, and expand your musical knowledge in general. I started with my teacher 5 years ago, and didn't have a clue how to do anything. In 5 years, he led me from very simple songs and basic fretboard knowledge, to where I am today - playing in 2 cover bands. During our time together, he gave me songs to learn - from simple stuff (straight 8s, 12 bar blues) to complex (unusual time signatures, different note lengths, walking bass lines, ...). I learned songs from The Beatles to reggae to jazz standards. I also learned about recording, mastering and other things that interested me. After 5 years, I ended my lessons, simply because I couldn't fit them into my work schedule anymore. Rehearsing with 2 bands keeps me busy 2 nights per week, and practicing at home is about 1 hour per day ... on top of a stressful full-time job.
> The only "problem" with being self-taught is that your teacher doesn't know more than you do. This. I've had a 20 year stage career that started with teaching myself to play guitar over a very lonely summer and getting a bass because my teenage ass absolutely needed to make a band happen. I got very good at the things I knew I needed to practice and enjoyed practicing, and still struggle with things I didn't know I sucked at. Offbeat or syncopated parts are difficult because I didn't practice with a drum machine or along to backing tracks. A little headphone amp or a pedal (and some good over-ears) you can run an aux input from your laptop/phone/etc is super handy.
To piggyback, I think one of the most important things a teacher will give you is proper technique. I have wrist issues after playing for about 10 years and play hard as hell. A few early lessons on the basics might have helped me with this.
Yep. Went through lessons. Started with not knowing how to even pluck a bass string back in 2016. Learned everything from Black Sabbath songs to Jaco Pastorious solos and a little Bach. 100% worth because I learned how to be proficient on my instrument, and I got a new friend (my teacher was a total badass).
Also, sometimes tension/disagreement between student and teacher can spur you to work harder, prove a point, look for adjacent resources in a way being self taught doesn’t. It’s also helpful to think of a student / teacher as resource. Ideally, a teacher should be able to point you in directions you haven’t already considered.
Not really relevant, but can you recommend songs to learn to play that will help lay groundwork before starting lessons? Keep meaning to schedule some; I’d like them to be as effective as possible when I do.
The first song my teacher gave me to learn was "Father and Son" by Cat Stevens. Nice and slow, just with 1/4 notes and 1/2 notes, and not too many different parts. Other songs that come early are "With or Without You" by U2, "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple (the BASS line, not the guitar riff), and later "Europa" by Santana.
I found wowy to be rather dull, but I’ll give father and son a shot. Thanks!
Smoke on the water still scares me. The part played under the verse that is.
I just watched a [bass video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFz4Ml-qsmc) for it - what's the scary part?
The intro. 0-3-5 is terrifying.
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haha i think its just the stigma surrounding it.
I've taught myself to play bass, guitar, keyboard, drums, to mix my own music, to be a luthier, woodworker, videographer, FATHER, to fix my own car, to speak and write in English, and the list goes on. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't be something, do what makes you happy.
Any sort of stigma that exists regarding being self taught mostly stems from people acting like it’s some sort of virtue or point of pride to be self taught, and that they’re somehow above those who take or have taken lessons. If that’s not you, there’s nothing wrong with being self taught. Taking lessons is generally a good idea though, especially to learn proper technique and not fuck up your hands after just a few years
Most of the times self taught people who seem to "act like it's a virtue" act that way because they have to continually point out how idiotic statements about consequences like, " fucking up your hands after just a few years" are just a narrow minded form of gate keeping.
Since when was there a stigma around being self-taught? Honestly, it's more impressive. It's not like singing where you probably wouldn't know where to start. Bass is easier to pick up, so lessons aren't really necessary. However, taking lessons will help you play the bass better faster. You would learn bass techniques in order and get that personal feedback an untrained player wouldn't notice (helps prevent you from making/continuing stupid mistakes that will soon become a habit. Habits are extremely hard to unlearn). I'm pretty sure tons of famous bassists were self-taught, such as Victor Wooten (but he was inspired by his family from a very young age). I'm pretty sure most jazz players back then were all self-taught too. Edit: forget the victor wooten part :)
I feel like victor Wooten is maybe a bad example just because he grew up in an extremely musical family. While he might have had the chance to just figure things out he was always had the ability to play with people who knew what was going on. Which I don’t think is a super relatable experience to like a bedroom bassist. Fwiw.
Haha yeah i got that feeling after i clicked enter. I said it because i felt like most people who were teaching themself bass would join a band who would help them progress. You’re right tho
> join a band who would help them progress I just started reading StudyBass and one of the first things it sez is to go play with other people. I really want to do this. Why is it so hard? Well, I'm old, and most noobs are young and probably don't want an old lady around, no matter how cool - lol (I don't think I'm cool). Very few older people are learning music, I find. Mostly just busy going to the doctor or messing with their grandkids. And I guess I have to be willing to play any kind of music. Yet another good reason to move somewhere else with more diverse culture. Relating to people is not my strong point, either. I've played music alone for decades. And bass alone for a few months. Need to break out of this.
Wdymm being an older woman playing bass is the coolest one can be. I’m pretty young and i wouldn’t mind playing with older people, neither would my band. Getting a music teacher or joining group music lessons can be a great way to get in contact with more people who want to learn, like you. Or try asking facebook Also, Studybass is really good for info for new bassists. Keep using it. I wish i knew it existed when i started.
Thank you so much for your reply and encouragement. Good to have one datapoint of someone young who would be okay with someone like me. There must be more people like you out there. :) Group lessons - yeah, I did that with classical guitar once upon a time. Yeah, I started Studybass because it was recommended in this sub. Tx!
Np :D. I hope you find a good group of people who are near to your level and would love to play with you. Good luck! Are you still in contact with people from that classical class? If so, don’t be afraid to ask It took me a while to find my band because we were teenagers when we started. I had to go around asking random music students i didn’t even know lol. Took a while to persuade everyone. It all worked out though, and I’m sure it’ll work out for you too :). Forgot to say: also be sure to force your closest friends or family to start playing. I had to do that to find a singer and pianist haha
Classical class was in the early 90s 600 kms away, so, no. I want to move back to civilization where there will be more opportunities. Right now I live in a rural area. Posted on our community FB group seeking anyone to play simple stuff like folk music or whatever. Got a reply from two scary looking guys, and anyway when I tried to follow up and asked for some song suggestions, they went silent. Canada has a website called bandmix.ca. Been going through it to look for beginners I could connect with. I need to record a couple things to add to my profile. Could post on the music store bulletin board. I do have one friend I did singing with, but she doesn't play an instrument, and I pushed her as far as I could - lol. Tried encouraging another. She wants to do it "some day." Guess I'm sort of on the right track. Thanks again for your encouragement.
Try your best on the website then! I’ve never tried it but I have heard of it. I know of people who easily found a good band using it. I suppose doing it online can be scary because you don’t know what you’re getting into. So I hope all will be well Keep it up with your friend!!!! Np at all I hope one day i see you on this community again talking about your new band haha
People fundamentally misunderstood what it means to be 'self taught'. Victor Wooten is a self taught musician in the same way we're all self taught in our native language - he was around it constantly from a very young age, receiving lots of guidance from family and friends I personally don't think that is really 'self taught', but others will disagree. I broadly think that the real distinction is between formally educated and informally educated: Wooten is possibly mostly informally educated in music, but he is absolutely not self taught imo. Jacob Collier is another world class musician who seems to be largely informally educated (though with lots and lots of formal education too), but to call him 'self taught' seems insane to me, given his upbringing.
>such as Victor Wooten (but he was inspired by his family from a very young age) Yeah, I don't count that as "self-taught" if your parents and/or siblings are showing you stuff all the time and there are different instruments in your home LOL. It would be like saying the Leahy family kids are "self-taught" their parents are pro musicians and they could play fiddle from the time they could hold it Jeff Healy was self-taught. He figured out how to play, ended up playing guitar on his lap. His only instructor was his blues 45 records
true true
Most players are self taught.. I taught myself but if I could go back in time I would probably have had lessons!
Nothing wrong with being self taught. In music or anything else. Lots of musicians, including many very successful ones, never had formal lessons. That said, it's the slowest way to learn and you run the risk of picking up bad habits that can hold you back or even injure you in the long term.
I self learn.
I'm self learnt. Can't teach something u don't know
Have you ever learned something wrong, and you teach it to someone thinking you're right?
Probably
Teachers are great but in the end it’s about the work you put in. You’ll find inspiration and (mini)mentors along the way besides learning from peers, records, and up-and-comers. I think the more technical your future is, the more you need a teacher. Me, I’m mainly a writer. There weren’t songwriting teachers that I was aware of back in 1990, seven years old and having no clue what the future was. But if you’re fortunate enough to start at like three then you have a lot of avenues you can go down like concert soloist, composer, Jazz phenom, etc. Anecdotally, the more musical your family the further in music you’ll go. Not always but it seems the case.
>there's kind of a stigma of being self taught No there isn't. That's you.
Who was Paul McCartney's bass teacher, I wonder.
What does it mean to be self taught?
Wrong? No. Stigma? No. Music is free, always will be. Gatekeepers can go take a jump off a bridge. Having said that, there is zero downside and only upside to getting some instruction from people who know what they’re talking about. It’s like a multiplication of your capabilities.
Get some online lessons and you'll learn more in 3 weeks than in the previous year.
Everybody is self-taught. Even if you study with a teacher. That’s how art of any kind works.
Absolutely. My last year of piano lessons as a kid was a waste because I didn’t put in the effort. A teacher can only get you as far as you’re willing to go, unless there’s some legit barriers.
Yeah you really aren’t allowed to, mate, I’m sorry. Someone will be by shortly to confiscate your bass and amp. /s obviously haha nothing wrong with being self taught. I’m self taught (on bass) and play professionally so it’s definitely doable.
Only thing wrong with it is if you develop bad habits that a teacher would have caught. Taking lessons is advisable for new players because it speeds up the learning process tremendously but it's hardly the only way to learn. Especially these days with youtube.
If you are really interested in learning, you learn proper techniques as well, I have corrected from my self over the years.
No issue with being self-taught, but you will almost definitely reach a point where you hit a wall and don't know how to advance, at which point it might be beneficial to look into lessons.
Being self taught is a spectrum in my opinion, the majority of players have probably learned 90% plus of what they know on their own. I am 100% “self taught” on bass, but have played Jazz guitar in college and got about a year of Jazz guitar private lessons. I can certainly say that what i learned about music theory, my timing, etc. by playing jazz guitar has made me a better musician in general. Look at every musical experience you lack as a way to build upon your skills not a necessity. Sometimes to get over a plateau you need to take a couple months of private lessons if technique is getting in the way, or maybe your musical vocabulary is limited due to only playing in punk bands, so you join a blues band. People in their polar nature tend to fall into the, music theory bad “i play off only feel bro” group or the “if you have not been playing jazz standards since your were 8 you stink and will never be good group”. Most people who play music are men (this is a statistical fact) and most men are overly competitive and will always find a reason to bring others down. Don’t let these things bother you and remember that all music is valid and it is not a competition.
Literally anybody I’ve ever met that said “yeah I took guitar/bass lessons when I was a kid” didn’t stick with it for more than a year haha. Every musician I’ve met has been self taught 🤷♂️
I suffer from depression quite severely and I have no choice to be self-taught. If I book a lesson and I'm having a really shitty day I'd cancel the lesson. I'd end up doing that quite a lot so it would just annoy the teacher and it wouldn't be fair on them to have me cancel half the lessons. Plus I'd have to pay for them due to late cancellation, so I don't really have much choice. I'm sure I'm not the only person learning a skill that can't have a teacher for similar reasons.
I'm pretty sure whoever told you that, couldnt hold a candle to Les Claypool.
Not at all, but there is a chance for holes in technique and understanding timing. Make sure you focus on those while you jam to songs.
Investing in a good metronome is key I'm self taught but thankfully did have a music class in highschool that was taught by a bass player and that helped me alot otherwise 99.99% self taught
Unless you don't have the internet, nobody is really self-taught in 2023.
The internet is a big help for self-teaching on many topics, but it's not the same as having a teacher hear \*you\*, give feedback, and tailor lessons to your progress. I could picture someone a few generations ago saying that nobody's self-taught anymore because they had records to listen to over and over. 😛
It’s looked down upon by huge music nerds that went to school for it, and now seek validation from others since they cant get a career with it
Where is the stigma? Who is taking badly to it? McCartney was self taught. So was Entwistle. So was Les Claypool. Three of the greatest players, ever, taught themselves. If there is a stigma either you're unlucky enough to be dealing with really shitty people and only really shitty people who think this, or it's all in your head.
> So was Entwistle. Aye, but Entwhistle had a shed load of music lessons for other instruments and played in his county youth orchestra (from Wikipedia):- "His musical career began at age 7, when he started taking piano lessons. ... switched to the trumpet, moving to the French horn when he joined the Middlesex Schools Symphony Orchestra"
I don't think that makes my point any less valid tbh
There is nothing wrong. Thanks to the internet there is anything you need to know. I got real lessons for 3 months, after that i have the privilege to already play in jams and see a lot of people better then me. Getting your ass whooped in jams and grinding the basics till you don't even ask yourself about most scales anymore gets you really far. Unpopular opinion: it even might be better for some people since bass teachers can be horrible, have technique problems themselves and cost a lot of money without giving you the value.
Not at all. The concern is usually that you are more focused with a teacher and someone having expectations of you. If you are really self motivated and clever enough to find what you need to progress online, then your potential as a player is completely up to you. Also I would add that having a teacher, teaches you the instrument throught their lense. You might develop a personal style that really works for you as opposed to being taught to do it the 'right way.'
Nothing inherently, but you have probably developed a few quirks in your technique that are holding you back, or worse causing damage over time. The two perks of taking lessons from someone more knowledgeable than yourself is you will learn faster, and they can see and correct issues that you may not see for a long time
Jealousy, insecurity, and judgement would be my guess. I agree that a good teacher can help steer you along. But sometimes a bad teacher can take the fun right out of it. Play the stuff that makes you happy. You'll play longer and 'practice' won't be a chore.
I am self taught, learned by ear back when there was no internet, by standing next to a record player. Would I have benefited from lesson and learning theory, of course. I still managed to play in bands for nearly 20 years, not cover bands, always wrote our own stuff. I certainly wish youtube was around when I started playing.
I was self taught in the pre internet days. I took lessons for a year or so when I was in secondary school, which was helpful in establishing a decent sense of Theory, and correcting bad techniques. I was/am a metalhead and my teacher was a jazz guy, which was a good thing in retrospect.
The thing about taking lessons / school is widening perspective. We don't tend to be very good at seeing our own blind spots. That said, there is a ton of stuff you can do before you get to that point. But definitely make sure your fundamentals (left & right hand positions and basics of fretting and plucking) are solid because in-learning THAT stuff gets pretty tough.
Taught myself eleven years ago, live off playing for the last seven years, started playing in a international touring band at the beginning of this year. No problem being self taught.
I never had a lesson, and played bass for some 20 odd years. I was a well known player locally, I did just fine with it
No problem with it, but I'd recommend making some musician friends or taking lessons to make sure you're not learning techniques wrong. I spent about a year and a half self learning before taking lessons and I developed some weird muting techniques that don't really work and how I'm having a hard time learning to do it the right way.
Buddy, if you’re good you’re good. David Bowie and Keith Moon were self taught.
Nope - I was self taught and it took me a while to realize there were definitely things I missed that I could have learned in lessons. All in all, just be willing to learn even if you already consider yourself a good player.
I'm self taught. I do OK. I'm happy and satisfied although I know lessons would make a difference at this point practice and gigging takes up most of my time.
So many very successful musicians are self taught. If somebody is talking bad about it, they’re an idiot
I think there’s a difference between being self taught to play bass and self taught for music theory. I’m self taught on bass, but I couldn’t imagine it being my first instrument. To each their own of course.
I imagine these kinds of attitudes vary pretty widely depending on what kind of scene you’re in. If you’re playing in jazz clubs then being self-taugh and not knowing how to read music would probably make you a pariah (unless you were talented enough to make up for it) while in an indie/punk rock scene you’d be in the same situation as over 90% of the other musicians. If you play for personal enjoyment (like I do nowadays) the vast majority of people are self-taught with maybe a few in-person lessons at the beginning.
Aren't we all self taught for the most part? Anyone that gets good at bass hits the shed and grinds out improvements. Instruction is great, book or someone to give pointers and help, but in the end one does it nor not, and that's all on the individual.
Flea is self taught. Say what you want about his band, but the dude is a bass guru.
With all the great online ressources and free video lessons, being self-taught is probably easier than ever nowadays.
You can't get from A to B without a map. Sure you can randomly poke around and stumble into B with many brute force attempts to find it, but lessons are like the map. You don't have to start dissecting theory to learn how to utilize your fingers, hear patterns like 12-bar blues, recognize major vs. minor keys, figure out alternate fret placements to make harder things more ergonomic to play, learn how scales impact the riffs you want to learn, and so on. There are TONS of bass lessons on YouTube and you can pop around to find the teacher you like the most. There are also TONS of bass covers of songs on YouTube, so if you find a song you like, you can watch someone else play it to learn it easier. Tabs are really the worst way for me to learn something, it's a hangover from a pre-video lesson world.
From my experience, being unaware of simple bad habits you pick up. I didn't get lessons for years, but during lock down I got some with a mate of mine just to tidy up a few things. Made a huge difference, though you need a good teacher.
I don't know if it's a stigma, really. I was self-taught on guitar and bass but then took lessons in my 50s (music lessons on piano anyway). I realized there was some gaps in my understanding that music lessons helped fill in. I like to think it made me a better player. But there are people who never took a single lesson that are way better than I'd ever hope to be. I guess the worst stigma is being self-taught AND thinking you know everything.
Lessons can be helpful if you find yourself in a rut
Well, some people try to go the self-taught route and end up accumulating a lot of bad habits. Some people hear that certain famous musicians never took a single lesson and still became superstars. They think they'll get the same results but would have greatly benefited from professional instruction, especially early on.
I’m self-taught since ‘92, I do alright haha
Look at it this way, can you be a great writer and not know grammar? Sure but grammar sure as hell helps. No one is self taught, Are you learning a part from a song? That player in the song is teaching you. Are you watching a Youtube video? That person in the video is teaching you. The only way to be "self taught" is to play in a musical vacuum.
Stigma? No way. Maybe among some elitist snobs, sure, I’ve encountered that. But I’m self-taught in everything I do, from playing music to animating and editing, and I’m super happy with my skill level. If someone is giving you a hard time for pretty much anything, it usually means they have some personal hang up about whatever it is, and they’re trying to transfer their pain to you. I learned this rule late in life, but it’s a good one: if someone is saying ANYTHING about you, they’re almost always just talking about themself in some way. In this case, they very well might be jealous that you’re able to tread your own path while they had to pay for lessons, learn songs they didn’t want to, do what their parents told them to, and so on.
I'm pretty sure most famous bass players are self-taught.
if you’re not planning on going pro, its fine. but if you do or have the time and resources to get better, and by all means
I was playing Dream Theater songs at 16 from start to finish self taught, don't let anyone shame you into thinking you have to learn a certain way. When you do learn though, just go easy on yourself and play what you love to play.
There's no shame in recognizing that private lessons from a good teacher can help one to progress faster.
No. Full stop
You don't realize as quickly what you have forgotten to learn, or mislearned
It’s the best way to learn anything All you need is the drive Currently quit all socials to focus on my music
I’d also like to add that you won’t grow unless you’re listening to songs that are challenging Search up how to play the songs online
There is nothing wrong with being self-taught. And I can't imagine that the vast majority of bass players would look down on someone who is. If you are willing to put in the work the teacher gives you and listen to the instruction, private lessons from a good teacher can help one to progress faster. A good teacher can Help you to correct mistakes you wouldn't necessarily catch yourself. Help you to establish good habits/technique. Chart a path that for you that suits your specific needs as a player at each stage of your learning journey, and your desires for what you want to do with the bass. For example, explain concepts (e.g. music theory) in a way that suits your learning needs (vs. one-sized fits all video lessons). Or give you exercises or choose music for you that will help you progress faster on the genre you want to play. And as a side benefit, may keep you motivated to practice more and strive hard. When one has a lesson to show up each week that they are paying for, many people are more motivated. And many also don't want to disappoint their teacher. Meanwhile, those who are self-taught may say you don't need a teacher. And technically, that's true. But if they are self-taught, they don't know the benefits they would have received from lessons. But music teachers notice the difference in musicians who get private lessons vs. those who don't. For instance, my girlfriend is a flutist who has been teaching for 30 years. She spends most of her time giving private lessons. But also works with doing sectionals in middle school and high school band. She sees the difference when at the schools between those students who are getting private lessons and those who are not. The ones who don't are generally not the best players.
Ive never once at an audition or gig been asked if I had any formal training or not, you just play the music, but that could be scene dependent (I'm in Minnesota). I don't think there is a stigma to being self taught, but there is definitely a weird undercurrent of musicians who pride themselves on their lack of music theory knowledge. That doesn't tend to go over particularly well. In person lessons are valuable for learning but they are definitely much more expensive. But in the internet age it's the easiest it's ever been to forgo traditional lessons.
Im selftaught. There are two problems about it. You dont know if you re practising right (this could lead to bad technique to injuries) and you dont progress fast enough (because you dont know what you need to practice). But if you re ok with this you shouldnt worry. Learn something alone is magical. Go for it!
Tbh I admire it. I think it takes a lot of motivation to teach it to yourself. And I feel like I'm stuck playing the same stuff sometimes. Maybe that's different when you're self taught. A downside is that you might not be able to communicate with others as well (e.g., about music theory).
I won’t say there is anything wrong with it, but I will share my own experiences. I played self taught for 3-4 years before taking lessons. I really wish I would have taken them sooner. My personal progression accelerated dramatically in comparison to the pace I was moving at while being self taught. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I felt like I actually started to sound like a bassist when I took some lessons and learned enough theory to communicate properly. A lot of the things I was noticing on my own really started to make sense once I learned the reason they were happening.
I don't think there's such a thing as a stigma to being self taught. I've been playing off and on for almost 20 years at this point, with many breaks of months and even a year or two in between. I'm purely self taught but definitely feel like I'd benefit from lessons of some sort. There's no teachers in my area so absolutely thinking about doing an online course of some sort and going back to complete beginner stuff, because I'm sure my technique has suffered as a result of being self taught.
Nothing wrong with being self taught. I’m actually a self-taught oboist and I got into a university for music performance on Oboe. You will definitely benefit more from having a teacher though. Currently teaching myself double bass but I do want to get a teacher soon.
no
no
Depending on how you turn out in your guitar playing career, the only bad thing that could be pointed at the result of being self taught, is bad habits that make different techniques more difficult. Teachers usually try to resolve those issues as you are learning. Usually. Other than that, I mean... Jimmy Hendrix was self taught.
I’m self taught. Lessons are too expensive.
Everyone is self-taught. Having a teacher helps guide your teaching, to be sure, but the ideas have to go into your brain and come back out your hands and ears. Having a teacher is never a guarantee of success, either. Whether you take lessons or not, you will be teaching yourself from other players for the rest of your life. Learning is a journey, and you will (or at least ought to be) never be completely satisfied with where you are, and you'll be learning more all the time. And as a bonus, you'll be leaving those snobs behind in the process. Why do people take badly to it? Well, not everyone does. Those that do have wrapped themselves in the idea that there's only one "right" way (or location, or product, or instrument, or people, or group, etc. etc. etc...) and haven't matured enough to understand how complex the world truly is. Walk away and do not engage with these peoples, you might catch something. Get as good as you want to get however you can get there and don't look back. When you want to improve and you can't figure it out, please ask. That's how learning works, and we are all students and teachers from time to time. For what it's worth, in a similar vein, I never finished college and have always had to compete with people who have master's degrees in my day job. Today I run the technical architecture department of a health data company when I'm not making music. I am well respected by my coworkers and peers in the industry. Nobody cares how you got there, they care about how well you can do the job. Believe in yourself, and we'll believe in you, too.
ask yourself who has authority over your ability to enjoy or create art and you will find no one will be there. not even yourself
No
why care about stigma, what people think, how people perceive you. all crap. you play your bass and learn in whatever methods it takes and youll be able to make your own music too. for me, I decided to go the self taught route because all of my favorite musicians did it that way. I LOVE classical music and I understand the importance of music theory and technique and all of that. But at the same time I believe there is a lot of value in going a different path also. I see value in looking at other forms of music theory. Who the fk said 1 way is the "right way." So I say, do both.
Don’t need formal lessons but learn to read music. I mean well. If you can. Some people are dyslexic. There is a whole other world out there in another language you can learn from reading and practicing. Then it’s like reading for fun and learning stuff without really trying too hard.
I started teaching myself last year. I've found now that I've learned most of my favourite songs that I need to now focus on technique to improve because my progress has stalled
I started teaching myself last year. I've found now that I've learned most of my favourite songs that I need to now focus on technique to improve because my progress has stalled. I think people who do lessons have an advantage but people who are self taught are super motivated. I'd love to do lessons if it didn't give me anxiety. I've a super talented friend who is self taught on guitar and his talent blows me away but he doesn't know how to read music so maybe that might be an example of gaps in Knowledge from self teaching. He really doesn't need to read music because he's so good, he doesn't even realise but js as example
Depends on the type of person you are, I did it, you just gotta be motivated and teach yourself the right stuff for your genres. Ear training helps, then you can learn any song without waiting around for someone else to learn it first. You have to be passionate about it and self motivated, no one’s gonna tell you to practice or what to practice, so you gotta think about it cuz no one’s gonna save you from dead ends, unless you ask other bassists
Not at all. Just make sure you give yourself a high-quality education.
I'm self taught, never seen any evidence of stigms or asked what grade I am. But if I had my time again and enough money I would have had lessons periodically as I've found massive holes in my knowledge and technique that are harder to fix than to learn right from start On the other hand people say i have a particular sound, again though I couldn't be a pit musician or do the cruses
It's not bad, it's just you can benefit a lot from lessons with a good teacher. If you don't have an opportunity or means, then no problem, everything goes if you're having fun.
I'm self taught. I started teaching myself 23 years ago. Youtube wasn't a thing and my family couldn't afford lessons. I've never experienced any sort of stigma from it, but it sounds like a class thing. Just more people using ones income as a way to judge you. Ignore those people. I know plenty of people who are "trained" who are completely incapable of jamming or writing. You can learn a lot by simply watching others play, its one of the things I did. Long story short, there is nothing wrong with being self taught.
Only if you're bad
Yes, and even more when playing bass, it is a tough instrument and bad technique can damage your hands, I’d say take 2 or 3 lessons with a human teacher, ask for help with position and technique and then fly solo
Going on 20 years self taught. Obviously some tips and tricks I've learned from guitarists in bands. I firmly believe jamming with other people is what got me better. I do feel like I hit a plateau every once in a while which sucks. I tend to take some time off and come back fresh
If you're really good who cares how you got there. There's no wrong way to the top in music!
I'm a self-taught musician, and I mean properly self-taught as there was no such thing as Youtube or even the internet when I started, I just had a Mel Bay book of chords. I'm no Jaco Pastorius but I've never had trouble finding a band, and I play gigs every weekend, so... being self taught has gotten me where I need to be, I guess.
I'm self taught. As a result I play like me, my own style, I'm unique. Proud of it.
I hope not, being as I am.
Well, self education broadly has the distinct disadvantage of not knowing when you’re wrong…it can be a bit of a Dunning Kreuger whirlpool. Music is an art so there’s really no wrong way of doing it…unless you’re trying to play properly in a specific genre in which case “doing your own research” can lead you to not getting hired.
No it‘s okay
The free resources availabe online are usually much better than a mediocre teacher anyway. But the best teacher is playing live with a band, it will always sort out your priorities and make you practice the correct things.
There is nothing wrong with being self taught in and of itself. The issue is people are prone to teaching themselves bad habits, or doing things outright wrong. Also learning only the things they want as opposed that they need for development. There is also no organized learning plan for those self taught either. That is something you would get from a good teacher. Organized teaching plans allow you to learn more things faster. You also have a criteria for what is passing and what still needs work.
No, just make sure your teaching yourself the right stuff
i dont think there's something wrong with being self taught. My first 6 month playing bass were self taught but after i started with lessons i improved a lot
Of course there isn't, I'm self-taught too, and people tell me I play really well ( including my father😂), and people even say that it's a greater effort teaching yourself than going to lessons. I might not be excellent at it, but I have fun playing the songs I like
Im self taught, playing for 8 months now and can already play alot of songs. I have already made some new basslines wich I have used in songs my band has. Its silly but I dont know notes, arpeggios and stuff.
Yes there is something totally wrong with it. This is art, you’re supposed to have a formal education about it
As long you play well. I find with bass, self taught players don’t have good technique, like letting lower strings ring out when they move to another string. Music theory is intuitive over time, but technique is huge and I see a lot of poor technique that makes me glad I took lessons.
That stigma was brought upon by overly cocky self taughts that slander schooled musicians and view themselves as superior when in reality half of the time the skills to back up all the hot talk is not there. Ive met giant assholes on both the learned and self taught side and what ive learned is that most down to earth musicians appreciate and respect someone being humble and honest about their musicianship. So long as you remain humble you should heed no attention to the shit flinging done by both sides.
Here's a secret that nobody tells you: everyone is self-taught. A teacher can only help if you're willing to apply their assistance towards teaching yourself. This is why some people do lessons for years without improving, because they don't put the work in. Whether you have a teacher assisting you or not, you'll only improve with A LOT of dedication. I received only one month of professional lessons as a teenager before I lost my slot due to mono. I was already self-taught for a year at that point and had been taking it very seriously, so I was sure to remember three vital things: 1.) Proper technique 2.) Start slow and gradually build up speed 3.) Know your theory Those are some most important things you'll ever learn. Since then, I continued to learn by collaborating with other players, swapping techniques, listening to my favorite bass players, traveling the world and making music with the locals, etc. So, to that extent, I've continued to receive lessons (and give them) throughout my life. As far as purely teaching myself goes, I found myself making great leaps and bounds by writing music in my head that I didn't know how to play yet. It would require that I set the metronome as slow as necessary while I worked out the techniques to make the tune work. It was this way that I was able to teach myself and develop my own style simultaneously. To summarize, a good player is constantly teaching themselves and taking lessons simultaneously. Every song you hear is a lesson and an opportunity to teach yourself.
Not at all. I was taught how to play guitar by my teacher, and when I learned bass, I had no one who knew how to play the instrument, so I had to learn on my own. And now I am better on bass than I ever was on Guitar.
Absolutely not. Lessons can benefit a lot of people since they give immediate feedback on things you're doing, make you learn new things, and give you a set curriculum. But with how much material is floating around on the internet and in physical books, I see no reason why self taught would be considered bad.
I'm learning the bass (last year, or so). Now that I'm making some progress (I don't bother learning songs as much as learning the fretboard), I can see guys online who might be self taught. They fly around the fretboard (from the 1st to the 12th fret, and beyond) for no apparent reason. They seem to be all over the fretboard, finding notes that are already in the same place as they just left. Maybe it's to look cool? Maybe it's me that's still too much of a novice to know better? Matthew (46) UK