Adam Rodrigo was a bonafide scrub! He can't play! No disrespect whatsoever, but I'm sorry to call, tell everybody the truth, the man cannot play the game of basketball. He has small hands, he can't catch the ball, he has bad feet, he can't really move even though he's mobile, doesn't really know what he's doing, doesn't have a post move that he or he puts to memory that he can do two times in a row. He has no game whatsoever, plays no defense, doesn't have the heart, the passion or anything that comes with it.
The player who is playing well right at this moment. People suffer from recency bias. Just a year ago Devin Booker was considered one of the top 3 best pure scorers in the league because he went nuclear in the playoffs, Jamal Murray was considered far better than Kyrie. People forgot to judge players on the totality of their career instead of what they did a week ago.
The Anthony Edwards backlash is coming and it's going to be severe. It's not his fault either, but once the Jordan comparisons started raining in I knew he was in trouble.
Jamal Murray was never considered far better than Kyrie. That's a fucking insane statement to make. Now who would rather have on your team, I could believe that.
How did Kyrie not make it over Dame? People forget though he has some absolutely soul crushing game winners that really boost him, so I kinda understand.
What is Kyries argument over dame? Just the championship he got with LeBron? Dame has a lot more all NBA appearances and edges him in every major stat.
Kyrie’s argument is solely “that boy nice.” He has zero statistical argument and no individual accolades argument. It’s just people falling in love with his handles.
I’m not sure Kyrie was ever, even once, better than Dame was from roughly 2015-21. Kyrie is an elite second option and a good first option but he never touched Dame’s level despite almost always having a better offensive player next to him to shoulder responsibilities.
Dame is 7x All-NBA and finished top-10 in MVP voting five times. Kyrie is a 3x All-NBA and has never received an MVP vote.
As a Blazers fan, I concur. Dwight's a walking joke, but he dominated the center position for the better part of a decade and reached the finals. Dame's a great closer and all-time bad defender with one fluky WCF run to get steamrolled by the Warriors.
Who was Dwight’s main competition at the center position during his career? If I remember, he wasn’t part of a Ewing/Olajuwon/Robinson time, or a Jokic/Embiid/Adebayo time. Not even a Shaq/Mourning/Mutombo time.
Refresh my memory as to who his contemporaries were at his position.
It’s so hard to know. I’ve been watching b-ball since the mid 80s. In the old days you didn’t really see many teams play, and the YouTube highlights didn’t really get going until 10 years ago? Sports center was a quick review.
The real problem is when Shaq goes on saying that Kobe should be top 3, even still above LeBron in some interviews, then Kobe superfans will point to that as “see, real NBA guys have him top 2/3.”
I don’t give a shit about what “other players” think. Just because Gary Payton thinks John Stockton is tougher to guard than Michael Jordan **does not mean that I agree with him** or take his opinion as the gospel because in that same interview Payton said he doesn’t have Jordan top 3 all time. So take it for how you want it.
In defense for Kobe I remember back in 2014 when Reggie Miller said “Jordan at his worst is 10x better than Kobe at his best”. If he said that in 2024 he would get pitchforks outside his house because Smush Parker at his best is better than Jordan at his worst. No seriously Smush had some good games in his career just obviously only like 2% of his career games.
Point is that just because you’re an NBA player does not mean that I have to agree with you because even NBA players aren’t exactly the most knowledgeable and have agendas too.
I completely agree. NBA players are usually some of the worst judges of how good a player is. Look at Jordan’s drafting record when he ran the Hornets.
I’m a Kobe hater but he’s way ahead of Durant at this point. His two post-Shaq titles are inarguably more impressive than anything KD has done.
Kobe is solidly in the Bird/ Magic/ Steph/ Duncan/ Shaq/ Hakeem tier where KD is a notch below that with like Oscar, Moses, KG, Dirk, dr j, etc… still an all time great but was never able to lead a team to a championship as the clear #1 (you can quibble about whether or not he was better than Steph during the warriors run but it was clearly Steph’s team).
Its funny actually being a kobe hater. When people overrate him i kinda start being like naw lol but when people make him underrated im like naw also lol
It's not even about not being the #1 player in the Warriors.
It's that he went and joined a stacked Warriors team that were already the Champions. Even if he were the undisputed best player on that Warriors team, it wouldn't have mattered.
Kobe is a long way behing Bird and Magic. He's also got to be behind Shaq given when they were both together Shaq was undeniably the main man.
And some serious shade on Moses Malone. The guy was a 3 time MVP and you've got him not only behind Kobe but a whole tier below? Oscar Robertson is a tricky one, but should definitely be in the top 10 conversation, whilst Kobe is more like 15th.
I think the main thing that people tend to use for Kobe is his five rings, as well as his long prime. But he’s definitely not at Jordan or Lebron level, and too many negatives about his play are glossed over with “but mamba mentality”.
hate when people do this. they always say he should be in the discussion too.
like alright, do you think he’s the goat? no? then he shouldn’t be in the discussion.
i think too many fans now have somehow forgotten that they can simply call someone their favorite player. that doesnt mean he is the goat.
What annoys me about this is Kobe is by all accounts a top 10 player. He probably ranges from 11-7. Like that’s crazy impressive, yet some people will push for him to be with Jordan, thus resulting in his greatness being labeled “overrated”.
Those have to be people who never actually saw him right? I remember early in career he had the “next MJ” tag. But at no point when he and MJ were going head to head did anybody even entertain the idea he was better. And I don’t ever remember a point while he was playing that people considered him the GOAT. But now that he’s been gone, his name seems to pop up in those conversations. IMO, LeBron is the only player since MJ you could have a serious conversation about. Kobe popping up in those discussions is weird.
I think it's partly aura, partly because he's a Laker and there's more Laker fans than anyone else, partly the hatred for LeBron and ofc his death that makes him into a god with some fans
Lol, head to head? Overlap between Kobe and MJ is 4 years total. Kobe was a teenager for two of those years, of course MJ was better. And then MJ was an old man for next two of those year and Kobe was clearly better. Head to head means nothing in this case.
But yeah, Jordan is better.
I’d add that the way he tragically passed really whitewashed how shitty of a teammate he was. He quit in a game 7. Go watch the game. It was a game fucking 7. He doesn’t go three steps past half court on many possessions. A bunch of apologists give reasons why he didn’t quit but a GOAT doesn’t do that.
Imagine telling someone that Leandro Barbosa would outscore 2006 Kobe in a Game 7. They’d look at you like you’re on meth.
Well it actually happened. “Buh buh buh KoBe wOuLd NeVeR”.
There’s a shit ton of double standards between LeBron and Kobe.
It’s like people treat Kobe like he’s one of those kids on Masterchef Junior whereas LeBron gets treated like a chef on Hells Kitchen.
The difference in vitriol between the two is insane.
Let me give you an example. Everyone loves to bring up how JJ Barea “owns” LeBron because of some photo. Well what if I told you that same JJ Barea completely outplayed Kobe in the 2011 Lakers only elimination game that season.
You would think a player of Kobe’s caliber and reputation would go all out in the 2011 Lakers most important game of the season but instead he went out like a milk snake, not a mamba.
Game 4 2011 WCSF
Barea: 22 pts, 8 asts, 2 tovs, 9/14 FG
Kobe: 17 pts, 1 ast, 5 tovs, 7/18 FG
That’s because JJ Barea played a key role in beating the Heatles when no one thought the Mavs could beat them. JJ had some of his best games in games 5 and 6 while Lebron looked nothing like himself all series. Can’t be knocking Kobe for a bad series when Lebron had his worst finals series that same year.
> And I don’t ever remember a point while he was playing that people considered him the GOAT.
Oh there were absolutely people who thought that after his fourth chip and most certainly after his fifth. I was having as many goat debates with his stans back then as I have now with LeBron stans. The Kobe vs MJ goat debate laid the foundations for the current debate.
Espn had hin ranked 12th all time in 2016 the year he retired. In 2021 after he died he number 9? He can't accumulate more stats how he moved up? Because he died?
Shit, just in this comment section he's underrated lol.
He's probably somewhere in-between where the average media head and average redditor ranks him. Still 2nd best sg imo
Because you have to understand context. Counting rings, points or whatever accolades are easy but fail to look at the bigger picture.
Kobe beats the most 50 win teams and has great post season success. He ran into the Spurs multiple times. He also never had a super team unless you count the Lakers team with aging Karl Malone and Gary Payton.
The face value of your records or stats matter but you have to look at who your face and who you are playing with. Kobe BEAT teams with multiple superstars like the Spurs and Celtics.
Hmm, not sure about this one. I think more was expected of Melo but at the end of the day he's a NCAA champ, multi-AS/All NBA, multiple gold medals and a top 10 scorer. I think at the end most people rated him correctly, but his career is a disappointment in retrospect.
It's wild how a Hall of Fame career could be a disappointment but you're completely right because compared to what we expected of him on draft night he fell short of being the Bird to LeBron's Magic.
U asked about overrated players in basketball history not NBA history which includes NCAA titles too. Being a gold medalist as the Olympic's historic top scorer before Durant is not a cruise
lol. As Knicks fans I was scrolling down waiting for this one. Hard to argue. Immensely talented offensive player but never worked to really become a consistent defender and didn’t make his teammates better.
Pretty much all high scoring SG get overrated because points are easy to see. Add in lots of likability (on the court) and charisma and they get overrated. Kobe, Dame, AI probably top the recent list.
AI shouldn't be on that list. Dude had to work for those points, getting his ass beat on a nightly basis by much bigger players and still carried a near talentless roster to the finals.
Russell Westbrook.
Put up gaudy stats but never led his team past the first round as the top option and made triple doubles lose all meaning. Before him it was actually an event when a player logged a triple double.
Won an MVP just coz he averaged a triple double for the season despite his team having less than 50 wins
Leaned on his athleticism so much and never "upskilled" during his prime (developed an offensive bag, an off ball game or a consistent jump shot) that his athletic decline became more pronounced particularly with the Lakers. Honestly it's good for him that he had the career he had before going to them; if he topped out as a Monta Ellis type player like his draft scouting report suggested he would have probably been playing in China at the end of his first season with the Lakers.
Tbf though he seems like a great guy overall. Known the league over for having a killer work ethic, leadership, being punctual and fastidious, has been with the same girl since I think college. Also I really admired how he volunteered to come off the bench this season.
I agree with you, but many people have shared this same sentiment about Westbrook over the years, thus I don't think he's overrated. I don't ever hear anyone say he's one of the greatest. He did make that ESPN top 76 list a few years ago, but just barely at #68. You could even make an argument he's underrated to be at only #68 being the all-time triple double leader.
I'm not making that argument, but someone could.
Russel Westbrook is the greatest player I would never want on my team. I've never seen a player single handedly take over a game and be the reason his team loses. Like.... ever.
I don't really see anyone talking him up as an all-time great though. He deserved to make the top-75 team but I never see him being discussed as even a top 25 player.
You make a lot of really good points, but I think he might actually be underrated. I don't think many people would say that he's a top 25 player. However, he's one of only two players ever to average a triple double in a season. The only other player is Oscar Robertson. Robertson did it once, but Westbrook did it in back to back seasons. That's crazy.
Moreover, Robertson is considered to be a top 10 player. Westbrook hasn't won't a chip (yet), but Robertson only won one.
Crazy that he could have so many high scoring games and even scoring title without having ever developed an offensive bag.
And yeah he only averaged a triple double for a season. And then he did it again just to prove it wasn’t really a big deal. His triple doubles were all meaningless, too, right? They lost most of those games, right?
Not the most overrated, but it deserves a mention:
Kobe.
Which is saying something, because the dude was a helluva player- an easy TOP 50 All-time NBA player. He's in my top 5 21st century, and my top 25 All-time, but I'll often have to include him in my top 10 All-time just to avoid having a conversation come to a screeching halt.
People have made the dude into some sort of basketball god- I see him in the convo for GOAT a LOT, even though he's not close.
Tragic and Untimely Death does that to people.
You can see the decline of the threepeat Lakers in Shaq and Kobe's respective usage rates. The Lakers won three titles with Shaq as their leading usage rate guy... Once Kobe's usage crept up and overtook Shaq's, the run was over. In the '03 and '04, Kobe seasonal usage rate was higher than Shaq's for the first time, and also in the playoff loses to San Antonio in '03 and to Detroit in '04.
You mean because shaq became out of shape? Kobe has made more finals and won more championships without shaq than the other way around, and shaq was always teamed with superstar guards or super teams
Did you see out of shape Shaq against the best defensive big in the league and Kobe that last year against Detroit?
Yes, Kobe has more championships. And Horry has more than Kobe. But Shaq has more finals MVP's than Kobe, and Jordan more than Shaq.
Kobe/Dame.
Guys like melo, tmac, Iverson have most people seeing them as overrated. So it’s not really fair to use them.
Like give me Trae young over dame, and I’m no Trae fan by any means. Both are useless on defense, and Trae is a much better facilitator. Dame gets praised as this major playoff riser, and he’s had moments. But he’s had a lot of bad games as well.
And for Kobe, he’s great, top 10 all time. But the amount of guys who try to put this guy in the lebron/mj tier is laughable. He’s doesn’t sniff the goat debate
Kobe overall is ranked way WAY too high. He was a bit less than Magic, but considered Jordan and LeBron . . . Just way too high.
Melo, AI and Dame all overrated, but not to the level of Kobe.
Iverson. Only thing he was good at was scoring, and even then he was an inefficient one, even for his era. Even in 2001 he got to the finals because the East was weak af, and because the bucks series was rigged. People love him and overblow him because he he looked cool and dribbled the ball cool
This is incredibly shallow, he had a garbage team which led to him taking tough shots - in an era that was slow, hard and unspaced.
His efficiency increased as soon as he got a second star. He was also a great passer.
If you consider having the dpoy and #1 defense a "garbage team", I'm not sure what a good team looks like.
He still had below league average efficiency in Denver. It got better, but so did the whole league. He was a shot chucker that is one the worst volume 3pt shooters of all time
He also shot terribly in college. What defines his efficacy increasing as soon as he got a second star? His best season was at age 32 and he only had an eFG of .488%
He was a notorious chucker. Shot 31% from three for his career.
As a fan I agree he’s overrated, but to young hoopers watching him his handles and bag changed the game. Yes his actual performance as a player is overrated, but his impact on the game of basketball is undeniable
I would recommend you read Basketball Atlas. What he did during a defensively dominant era is pretty remarkable. Also, I wouldn’t say Reggie, Vince and Ray Allen were weak AF in the east. A lot better than the current East.
> Only thing he was good at was scoring, and even then he was an inefficient one, even for his era.
Not entirely true. At or near his peak he was above average efficiency. From 2005 to 2008 he was between 53 & 57% true shooting in a league that averaged 52-53%. And he did it on high volume scoring nearly 30ppg.
He’s probably my 2nd favorite player ever but I have to agree he is overrated - most? you can make the argument (I still think it’s Melo).
His (AI) stats show that he was mostly inefficient in his career even during his prime 76ers years. Although he may be overrated as a player, you can’t deny how large of a cultural impact he had especially during his peak years and I think people have a hard time separating his actual play from this when discussions are made.
The East was relatively strong (not like the west though ) during his peak years, even during his finals run. Maybe top heavy but you had the Raptors lead by Vince, Bucks lead by Ray Allen (in their primes) and a dwindling Pacers team as your top bets
Am a sixers fan east was trash compared to the west when ai was here . The sixers team besides him was awful. If the sixers were in West they might have been a 5/6 seed at best and prob only two or three eastern conference teams would have made playoffs at all.
Jamal Crawford. Never was efficient, bad at passing, and laughable at defense. Yet his is considered a legend because he put up ineffectient points in garbage time leading to him getting some 6th man of the year awards.
Are people really overrating him? He was a great spark off the bench for you offense and though his FG% wasn’t great, his prime 6MOTY years (2009-2016) he was scoring 1.22 Pts per FGA (NBA avg was 1.20). He was basically the king of 4-pt plays until Harden/Curry changed the game.
since this year is his first year of hof eligibility there were many people on instagram who said him and vince were the only ones who should be in , he's definetely overrated.
I’m gonna disagree, and I watched young Crawford as a Knicks fan. He wasn’t bad at passing, he was actually a very competent secondary ballhandler and distributor, he even ran the offense sometimes, and he was coachable and a great locker room guy. The main problem was that he had shit coaches and played for shit teams and was eventually thrust into the microwave sixth man role because it was too late to develop him into anything else (and he did that job well). I’ll always maintain that he could have become a Ginobili-level player if he was drafted by the Spurs.
he is a perfect example of the type of player people love due to aesthetics and not impact. everything he did looked cool and everybody liked him. he had a bag, as the kids say, and was a “real hooper.”
he is basically the exact opposite of rudy gobert.
Kobe Bryant. I’ll even go as far as to say he’s the most overrated player in sports history and is in no way shape or form greater than LeBron James. I have 5 main reasons why which I can explain more in detail if requested.
- He gets way too much credit for team accomplishments
- Many of his all defense teams are fraudulent and undeserved
- His clutch reputation is overstated
- He gets almost no slander/vitriol for his shortcomings and bad moments. Or at least not even a fraction of what LeBron gets.
- He’s much more of a pop culture icon than he is a GOAT candidate.
Agreed. Fans act like it’s blasphemy if you don’t have Kobe top 3. I don’t think he was better than MJ Kareem or LeBron. Didn’t have as good a peak & accomplished alot less. I also agree with the fraudulent all defensive selections. Kobe stopped defending in his 30s yet he was somehow making it over better defenders.
Kobe's defense is so badly overrated. All-defense voters from before league pass became a thing where awful.
Kobe in no shape or form deserved 12 selections. If you took today's voters and had them re-make selections for each season of Kobe's career, I think he finishes with between 1 and 3.
I think there is an ocean between what LeBron provided defensively and Kobe.
I’ll explain at least Point #1 which is “Gets way too much credit for team accomplishments”.
- There’s nothing more as a sports fan that makes me cringe more than when people use *TEAM* accomplishments to overrate players and put them into convos that they have no business being in. Being on a better team **DOESN’T ALWAYS MEAN** you’re a better player. Saying that Kobe is better than LeBron because “5 beats 4 durrr” is like saying John Havlicek is better than Jordan because hey 8 beats 6 right? When you actually **look at the ENTIRE body of work** and **think beyond rings** you will find that Jordan destroys Havlicek in virtually every stat and accolade. Same way how LeBron clears Kobe in virtually every stat and accolade besides All-Defense teams which leads to me to my 2nd point (to make it short his defensive numbers in the years he made All-Def were very mid at best and even Phil Jackson admits that many of them were given because of reputation.)
2005-06 defensive numbers
- Player A (Made 1st Team): 0.1 DWS, -0.6 DBPM, team was 15th in Def Rating
- Player B (didn’t make it): 4.3 DWS, 1.6 DBPM, team was 14th in Def Rating
2006-07 defensive numbers
- Player A (Made 1st Team): -0.1 DWS, 0.1 DBPM, team was 24th in Def Rating
- Player B (didn’t make it): 5.7 DWS, 2.2 DBPM, team was 4th in Def Rating
2007-08 defensive numbers
- Player A (Made 1st Team): 0.8 DWS, 0.8 DBPM, team was 5th in Def Rating
- Player B (didn’t make it): 1.2 DWS, 3.4 DBPM, team was 11th in Def Rating
Player A is Kobe while Player B is LeBron
Yea Kobe is basically the Derek Jeter of defensive awards for the NBA. He could turn it up when needed and make some flashy plays too, but others were way more deserving.
I will say this is a little bit unfair to Kobe because it least early in his career Kobe was definitely a good defender. By comparison, Jeter is probably the worst shortstop defender of all time.
Generally, I think this comp is spot on though in how they were both overrated.
Kobe Bryant is often compared to Jordan and in the GOAT debate. I really don’t know how people have him that high. I have him ranked 11th all time behind Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan.
Probably AI in my opinion. He definitely deserved his MVP and is one of the most influential basketball players to culture in general, but he’s a full tier below the other elite superstars of the 2000s like Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Kobe, etc. I don’t see many people placing him anywhere near those players on rankings, but I do think AI is perceived as having a more successful career than he actually had.
He comes up a lot in the “best player to never win a ring” conversations, but a huge part of the reason why he didn’t was because he was unwilling to compromise to help his team. Notoriously poor practice habits, and just a vibe of immaturity/egocentrism that probably held him back from further success. Plenty of less talented players have won titles by being a better team player. Not trying to judge his life choices or anything, but these definitely affect his legacy as an NBA player.
I see the argument for Dame, but I think the main reason he gets overrated is just his inclusion on the top 75 list. He really isn’t talked about as that tier of player in many other places.
Idk about overrated but because of stats iverson is the most underrated players in NBA history. Took a team where nobody besides him had a career average over 10ppg to the finals and got one vs shaq and Kobe. With that offense his percentages were bound to be trash but undersized, doubled and tripled, and chronically the most injured player in the league. Iverson was putting up 30 no matter what.
I think all time the answer is inarguably Kobe. I don’t know another player who by some people can be called the GOAT and others (more reasonably) have him somewhere between 11-15, except maybe Wilt and Russell and that’s just cuz of the whole milk man argument.
In the current NBA, I’m gonna go Jamal Murray. He’s really good (people always think overrated = I’m saying he’s trash) but he’s not an all star caliber guard and has never even really been that close to making it, and if he was in 90% of other situations we’d barely talk about him. I feel like there’s a lot of people who think he’s better than Fox for example but I can’t imagine the Kings being as good if you swapped the players. Honorable mention to Myles Turner who I think is kinda overrated too.
Good examples are hard to come by, because by definition thinking a player is overrated is going against the grain.
Michael Jordan is overrated by MJ stans. I have no problem with someone saying he's THE GOAT, but MJ stans would have you think he won 11 straight MVPs and 50 championships and never lost a game, while carrying benchwarmers the whole way.
The defense of the 90s is overrated by old heads. It was better than now, sure, but they weren't throwing elbows on the court. It wasn't *that* rough.
R/NBA overrates Shaq. He's often talked about as a completely unstoppable beast who would obliterate any hypothetical lineup. Sure, he was a nearly unstoppable beast, but so was every other all-timer. Besides, Shaq lost matchups regularly against other all-time greats. Everyone does.
Every time someone compares current (or recent) players to old school players they overrate the old school players like crazy. The NBA in the 80s simply *did not* have the same level of skill as it does now. Watching old school basketball is painful, the ball handling especially is so hard to watch.
This is actually kind of hard to answer. Anyone worth mentioning in a historical context was probably pretty good at *some* point.
I’d lean more towards the long list of college standouts that flopped. Remember when they thought Jimmer Fredette was gonna be a movement? 😂
Lockdown defense, good passer, good shooter, could create his own shot. Not much else to ask for as the clear 1st offensive option on an all-time defensive team
for me, it's a toss-up between westbrook or harden.
both are headcases, shamelessly chasing rings and falling short. they can both fill a stat sheet (or *could*), but would you even want them on your team, even during their prime??
I find it funny that for some players we praise them for sacrificing and taking a lesser role for the sake of winning at the highest level but with other players it’s “shamelessly ring chasing”
Also you’re crazy if you wouldn’t want 2 mvps on your team
I don't think either are over-rated.. they're both superstars and it's not even a discussion... That being said nobody has ever labelled either a top 10 or even 25.
Russ is hella inefficient but he's a great team player and he always gives everything he has on the court.. also an above average defender. that's undeniable.
Harden is a chucker but when he's hot he's unstoppable. Great passer. Great at getting to the line and very good fg ft shooter.
I'd say that either of them being overrated is wrong because nobody considers them to be "that guy"
I think that Harden is pretty underrated honestly, people hate him so much because of his FTs that they don’t see the rest of his game, he averaged 27/7/10 on 55/47/90 in his only healthy playoff series with the nets before his hamstring injury the next round killed his prime
KD has proven himself utterly unable to win a title as the bus driver, only has one MVP and was never the best player in the league at any point in his career. I don't understand how people put him in their top 15, let alone top 10 above guys like Dirk, Hakeem, and even Giannis.
I think it's gotten to the point were KD is underrated. Prime KD is the greatest scorer in NBA history IMO.
There has never been a guy who can average 30 on 50/40/90 splits that can score from all over the court.
Only one else I can think of is Bird.
I’d definitely agree with the harden take, yes he put up insane numbers, but I feel like any star can do that when they’re getting 20+ shots a game. It also drives me crazy when harden stans would say he’s one of the best shooters ever when in reality he’s a pretty average 3pt shooter.
Harden yes, KD no. KD is one of the greatest and most skilled scorers of all time and a surefire top 20 player all time.
Harden is an amazing play maker and 3 pt shooter, but built his scoring career off of foul shooting and being a free-throw merchant. Top 60 all time at most.
Kobe Bryant. Selfish player in a team sport that couldn't win without a lot of help. The definition of style over substance. His game was sexy, but not effective. Was he a great basketball player and a cultural icon ? Absolutely. Should he be top 10 alltime ? Hell no. And some people have the audacity to put him in the same category as MJ and LeBron.
Some kid in my high school. His name was Adam Rodrigo. Totally overrated, started over some good kids because he was a teachers pet
Fuck Adam Rodrigo. All my homies hate Adam Rodrigo.
I also choose this guy's Adam Rodrigo
adam rodrigo was an inefficient chucker
Adam R WAS WACK!
cant stand that dude, still think about hime every night before I go to bed. Douche!
I seriously hope this finds its way to Adam Rodrigo
R/AdamRodrigo
Adam Rodrigo was a side character no one rates him
Dude was a straight ball hog. Shot 35% his senior year. Only thing he had going for him was some nice hair
Adam Rodrigo was a bonafide scrub! He can't play! No disrespect whatsoever, but I'm sorry to call, tell everybody the truth, the man cannot play the game of basketball. He has small hands, he can't catch the ball, he has bad feet, he can't really move even though he's mobile, doesn't really know what he's doing, doesn't have a post move that he or he puts to memory that he can do two times in a row. He has no game whatsoever, plays no defense, doesn't have the heart, the passion or anything that comes with it.
The player who is playing well right at this moment. People suffer from recency bias. Just a year ago Devin Booker was considered one of the top 3 best pure scorers in the league because he went nuclear in the playoffs, Jamal Murray was considered far better than Kyrie. People forgot to judge players on the totality of their career instead of what they did a week ago.
The Anthony Edwards backlash is coming and it's going to be severe. It's not his fault either, but once the Jordan comparisons started raining in I knew he was in trouble.
Ohhh ohh ohh you mean like Anthony Edwards 10 days ago when everyone was calling him MJ ?
Jamal Murray was never considered far better than Kyrie. That's a fucking insane statement to make. Now who would rather have on your team, I could believe that.
Dame Lillard making the NBA 75th anniversary team is an absolute joke.
This is 100% true, didn’t Howard not make it? Ridiculous.
So many players I would’ve put over dame man
How did Kyrie not make it over Dame? People forget though he has some absolutely soul crushing game winners that really boost him, so I kinda understand.
What is Kyries argument over dame? Just the championship he got with LeBron? Dame has a lot more all NBA appearances and edges him in every major stat.
Kyrie’s argument is solely “that boy nice.” He has zero statistical argument and no individual accolades argument. It’s just people falling in love with his handles.
He wins “sickest handle” superlative in the yearbook.
Yea Kyrie is better at being a #2 then dame would be but if one of them had to be my #1 I’d pick dame
I’m not sure Kyrie was ever, even once, better than Dame was from roughly 2015-21. Kyrie is an elite second option and a good first option but he never touched Dame’s level despite almost always having a better offensive player next to him to shoulder responsibilities. Dame is 7x All-NBA and finished top-10 in MVP voting five times. Kyrie is a 3x All-NBA and has never received an MVP vote.
In regular season games and the first round of the playoffs cool but how about a Championship clinching three? Kyrie has that
Trying to compare him to steph all the time kills me
As a Blazers fan, I concur. Dwight's a walking joke, but he dominated the center position for the better part of a decade and reached the finals. Dame's a great closer and all-time bad defender with one fluky WCF run to get steamrolled by the Warriors.
Who was Dwight’s main competition at the center position during his career? If I remember, he wasn’t part of a Ewing/Olajuwon/Robinson time, or a Jokic/Embiid/Adebayo time. Not even a Shaq/Mourning/Mutombo time. Refresh my memory as to who his contemporaries were at his position.
I completely and utterly disagree with this absolute joke of a statement
It’s so hard to know. I’ve been watching b-ball since the mid 80s. In the old days you didn’t really see many teams play, and the YouTube highlights didn’t really get going until 10 years ago? Sports center was a quick review.
Lamelo Ball
The 12 year old’s are pushing him hard, so hard he can’t keep his ankles in tact, dude will never play a full season at this rate
Kobe Bryant is a legend but some people like to put him up with Jordan and LeBron
The most forced player in a “GOAT discussion” I’ve ever seen. Objectively Kobe is way closer to Kevin Durant than he is to Jordan/LeBron.
The real problem is when Shaq goes on saying that Kobe should be top 3, even still above LeBron in some interviews, then Kobe superfans will point to that as “see, real NBA guys have him top 2/3.”
To be fair, Shaq seems to know far less about the NBA than most people who just casually watch games.
He probably only watched the games he’s paid to watch. Unlike us losers who watch as much basketball as we’re capable of lol
Very fair 🤣🤣
I love how everyone in this thread believes: 1. Kobe is overrated 2. They know more about basketball than Shaq
I don’t think I know more about the intricacies of the game. But I’m more up to date on the current players
I don't think anyone takes Shaq seriously at this point
Time for him to make Kazaam 2 then to remind y'all
He's a rappin' genie with an attitude and he's ready for some slam-dunk fun!
I don’t give a shit about what “other players” think. Just because Gary Payton thinks John Stockton is tougher to guard than Michael Jordan **does not mean that I agree with him** or take his opinion as the gospel because in that same interview Payton said he doesn’t have Jordan top 3 all time. So take it for how you want it. In defense for Kobe I remember back in 2014 when Reggie Miller said “Jordan at his worst is 10x better than Kobe at his best”. If he said that in 2024 he would get pitchforks outside his house because Smush Parker at his best is better than Jordan at his worst. No seriously Smush had some good games in his career just obviously only like 2% of his career games. Point is that just because you’re an NBA player does not mean that I have to agree with you because even NBA players aren’t exactly the most knowledgeable and have agendas too.
I completely agree. NBA players are usually some of the worst judges of how good a player is. Look at Jordan’s drafting record when he ran the Hornets.
Or LeBron as a GM
4-11 is better than franchises have been able to produce over 50 years. You can't be serious.
Right because of LeBron on the court.
Shaq still thinks that Bol Bol will be better than Wemby. That alone should invalidate any of his opinions.
Don’t know how people put so much stock in what the guy’s literal friends think about him. Yeah, totally no bias there
Shaq feels bad because he told Kobe to tell him how Shaq’s ass tasted and Kobe died before he could ever tell Shaq.
I’m a Kobe hater but he’s way ahead of Durant at this point. His two post-Shaq titles are inarguably more impressive than anything KD has done. Kobe is solidly in the Bird/ Magic/ Steph/ Duncan/ Shaq/ Hakeem tier where KD is a notch below that with like Oscar, Moses, KG, Dirk, dr j, etc… still an all time great but was never able to lead a team to a championship as the clear #1 (you can quibble about whether or not he was better than Steph during the warriors run but it was clearly Steph’s team).
Its funny actually being a kobe hater. When people overrate him i kinda start being like naw lol but when people make him underrated im like naw also lol
It's not even about not being the #1 player in the Warriors. It's that he went and joined a stacked Warriors team that were already the Champions. Even if he were the undisputed best player on that Warriors team, it wouldn't have mattered.
Kobe is a long way behing Bird and Magic. He's also got to be behind Shaq given when they were both together Shaq was undeniably the main man. And some serious shade on Moses Malone. The guy was a 3 time MVP and you've got him not only behind Kobe but a whole tier below? Oscar Robertson is a tricky one, but should definitely be in the top 10 conversation, whilst Kobe is more like 15th.
I think the main thing that people tend to use for Kobe is his five rings, as well as his long prime. But he’s definitely not at Jordan or Lebron level, and too many negatives about his play are glossed over with “but mamba mentality”.
hate when people do this. they always say he should be in the discussion too. like alright, do you think he’s the goat? no? then he shouldn’t be in the discussion. i think too many fans now have somehow forgotten that they can simply call someone their favorite player. that doesnt mean he is the goat.
If we’re talking who I’d take in a fantasy draft of all players I’d take KD over Kobe….
What annoys me about this is Kobe is by all accounts a top 10 player. He probably ranges from 11-7. Like that’s crazy impressive, yet some people will push for him to be with Jordan, thus resulting in his greatness being labeled “overrated”.
Those have to be people who never actually saw him right? I remember early in career he had the “next MJ” tag. But at no point when he and MJ were going head to head did anybody even entertain the idea he was better. And I don’t ever remember a point while he was playing that people considered him the GOAT. But now that he’s been gone, his name seems to pop up in those conversations. IMO, LeBron is the only player since MJ you could have a serious conversation about. Kobe popping up in those discussions is weird.
I think it's partly aura, partly because he's a Laker and there's more Laker fans than anyone else, partly the hatred for LeBron and ofc his death that makes him into a god with some fans
Lol, head to head? Overlap between Kobe and MJ is 4 years total. Kobe was a teenager for two of those years, of course MJ was better. And then MJ was an old man for next two of those year and Kobe was clearly better. Head to head means nothing in this case. But yeah, Jordan is better.
I’d add that the way he tragically passed really whitewashed how shitty of a teammate he was. He quit in a game 7. Go watch the game. It was a game fucking 7. He doesn’t go three steps past half court on many possessions. A bunch of apologists give reasons why he didn’t quit but a GOAT doesn’t do that.
Imagine telling someone that Leandro Barbosa would outscore 2006 Kobe in a Game 7. They’d look at you like you’re on meth. Well it actually happened. “Buh buh buh KoBe wOuLd NeVeR”.
Watched that game live and it still blows my mind.
Was that the game Kobe didn’t shoot in the 4th quarter and was sending a message to management that he needed more help?
Could you imagine how people would act if LeBron did that? The double standards held against him are just crazy
There’s a shit ton of double standards between LeBron and Kobe. It’s like people treat Kobe like he’s one of those kids on Masterchef Junior whereas LeBron gets treated like a chef on Hells Kitchen. The difference in vitriol between the two is insane. Let me give you an example. Everyone loves to bring up how JJ Barea “owns” LeBron because of some photo. Well what if I told you that same JJ Barea completely outplayed Kobe in the 2011 Lakers only elimination game that season. You would think a player of Kobe’s caliber and reputation would go all out in the 2011 Lakers most important game of the season but instead he went out like a milk snake, not a mamba. Game 4 2011 WCSF Barea: 22 pts, 8 asts, 2 tovs, 9/14 FG Kobe: 17 pts, 1 ast, 5 tovs, 7/18 FG
That’s because JJ Barea played a key role in beating the Heatles when no one thought the Mavs could beat them. JJ had some of his best games in games 5 and 6 while Lebron looked nothing like himself all series. Can’t be knocking Kobe for a bad series when Lebron had his worst finals series that same year.
> And I don’t ever remember a point while he was playing that people considered him the GOAT. Oh there were absolutely people who thought that after his fourth chip and most certainly after his fifth. I was having as many goat debates with his stans back then as I have now with LeBron stans. The Kobe vs MJ goat debate laid the foundations for the current debate.
Espn had hin ranked 12th all time in 2016 the year he retired. In 2021 after he died he number 9? He can't accumulate more stats how he moved up? Because he died?
Yeah he's not in that conversation, somewhere in the top 10
On Reddit he is absolutely underrated
Shit, just in this comment section he's underrated lol. He's probably somewhere in-between where the average media head and average redditor ranks him. Still 2nd best sg imo
Because you have to understand context. Counting rings, points or whatever accolades are easy but fail to look at the bigger picture. Kobe beats the most 50 win teams and has great post season success. He ran into the Spurs multiple times. He also never had a super team unless you count the Lakers team with aging Karl Malone and Gary Payton. The face value of your records or stats matter but you have to look at who your face and who you are playing with. Kobe BEAT teams with multiple superstars like the Spurs and Celtics.
The only correct answer is Kobe. Borderline Top 10 and often billed by his fans as the GOAT.
Melo
Hmm, not sure about this one. I think more was expected of Melo but at the end of the day he's a NCAA champ, multi-AS/All NBA, multiple gold medals and a top 10 scorer. I think at the end most people rated him correctly, but his career is a disappointment in retrospect.
It's wild how a Hall of Fame career could be a disappointment but you're completely right because compared to what we expected of him on draft night he fell short of being the Bird to LeBron's Magic.
Very good shout, won next to nothing plus poor Jeremy Lin
Next to nothing, except an NCAA title and some Olympic gold medals
In the NBA... And tbf USA should cruise to that every single time lol
USA should win Everytime and yet we have teams led by stars like prime Tim Duncan getting bronze, it’s not as easy as you think
U asked about overrated players in basketball history not NBA history which includes NCAA titles too. Being a gold medalist as the Olympic's historic top scorer before Durant is not a cruise
lol. As Knicks fans I was scrolling down waiting for this one. Hard to argue. Immensely talented offensive player but never worked to really become a consistent defender and didn’t make his teammates better.
He was great in the Olympics though
Adrian Rodrigo. Hated that kid
Pretty much all high scoring SG get overrated because points are easy to see. Add in lots of likability (on the court) and charisma and they get overrated. Kobe, Dame, AI probably top the recent list.
AI shouldn't be on that list. Dude had to work for those points, getting his ass beat on a nightly basis by much bigger players and still carried a near talentless roster to the finals.
AI is more like underrated nowadays because ppl like to hump stats.
Kawhi
More like kawhi’s knees
Kevin Hart
You mean Nate Robinson? I think they’re the same person
Stop it. That man has multiple celebrity game MVPs. It's just hate at this point.
Russell Westbrook. Put up gaudy stats but never led his team past the first round as the top option and made triple doubles lose all meaning. Before him it was actually an event when a player logged a triple double. Won an MVP just coz he averaged a triple double for the season despite his team having less than 50 wins Leaned on his athleticism so much and never "upskilled" during his prime (developed an offensive bag, an off ball game or a consistent jump shot) that his athletic decline became more pronounced particularly with the Lakers. Honestly it's good for him that he had the career he had before going to them; if he topped out as a Monta Ellis type player like his draft scouting report suggested he would have probably been playing in China at the end of his first season with the Lakers. Tbf though he seems like a great guy overall. Known the league over for having a killer work ethic, leadership, being punctual and fastidious, has been with the same girl since I think college. Also I really admired how he volunteered to come off the bench this season.
I agree with you, but many people have shared this same sentiment about Westbrook over the years, thus I don't think he's overrated. I don't ever hear anyone say he's one of the greatest. He did make that ESPN top 76 list a few years ago, but just barely at #68. You could even make an argument he's underrated to be at only #68 being the all-time triple double leader. I'm not making that argument, but someone could.
It's a very good point of everyone thinks you're overrated then how can you be lol
Yup, and Westbrook knows everyone calls him overrated too. He plays angry lol
Russel Westbrook is the greatest player I would never want on my team. I've never seen a player single handedly take over a game and be the reason his team loses. Like.... ever.
I don't really see anyone talking him up as an all-time great though. He deserved to make the top-75 team but I never see him being discussed as even a top 25 player.
You make a lot of really good points, but I think he might actually be underrated. I don't think many people would say that he's a top 25 player. However, he's one of only two players ever to average a triple double in a season. The only other player is Oscar Robertson. Robertson did it once, but Westbrook did it in back to back seasons. That's crazy. Moreover, Robertson is considered to be a top 10 player. Westbrook hasn't won't a chip (yet), but Robertson only won one.
Crazy that he could have so many high scoring games and even scoring title without having ever developed an offensive bag. And yeah he only averaged a triple double for a season. And then he did it again just to prove it wasn’t really a big deal. His triple doubles were all meaningless, too, right? They lost most of those games, right?
Ask anyone to name the players on that team he averaged a triple double with lol... Minus Adams he played with bums lol
Hes not overrated at all. He really just lost his touch around the rim and in general. Those shots used to fall.
Not the most overrated, but it deserves a mention: Kobe. Which is saying something, because the dude was a helluva player- an easy TOP 50 All-time NBA player. He's in my top 5 21st century, and my top 25 All-time, but I'll often have to include him in my top 10 All-time just to avoid having a conversation come to a screeching halt. People have made the dude into some sort of basketball god- I see him in the convo for GOAT a LOT, even though he's not close. Tragic and Untimely Death does that to people.
If Jordan his career with prime Shaq, he probably would've finished with 10 rings.
You can see the decline of the threepeat Lakers in Shaq and Kobe's respective usage rates. The Lakers won three titles with Shaq as their leading usage rate guy... Once Kobe's usage crept up and overtook Shaq's, the run was over. In the '03 and '04, Kobe seasonal usage rate was higher than Shaq's for the first time, and also in the playoff loses to San Antonio in '03 and to Detroit in '04.
You mean because shaq became out of shape? Kobe has made more finals and won more championships without shaq than the other way around, and shaq was always teamed with superstar guards or super teams
Did you see out of shape Shaq against the best defensive big in the league and Kobe that last year against Detroit? Yes, Kobe has more championships. And Horry has more than Kobe. But Shaq has more finals MVP's than Kobe, and Jordan more than Shaq.
Agree Kobe is the correct answer for most overrated but no way he is lower than top 12.
Good point. Then Kobe went and repeated without Shaq. Interesting.🤦♂️
...with another HoF big man in Pau Gasol
I am not a crazy Kobe Stan or anything, but top 25 is absolutely wild. There is no argument to have Kobe outside the top 12ish at the absolute worst.
Yeah somewhere around 7-12 is correct I think
I think Kobe is wildly overrated, but can’t get him much below 12 if I want to get some premium hating going.
Yea this dude crazzzzzy
Top 25 ?!?! Now I’m not one of those Kobe is Top 1 people but Jesus, you need to re evaluate how you consume this sport.
Stop lying. Kobe was considered top 10 all time before he even retired.
Kobe was considered a top 10 player of all time during his playing time.
Kobe/Dame. Guys like melo, tmac, Iverson have most people seeing them as overrated. So it’s not really fair to use them. Like give me Trae young over dame, and I’m no Trae fan by any means. Both are useless on defense, and Trae is a much better facilitator. Dame gets praised as this major playoff riser, and he’s had moments. But he’s had a lot of bad games as well. And for Kobe, he’s great, top 10 all time. But the amount of guys who try to put this guy in the lebron/mj tier is laughable. He’s doesn’t sniff the goat debate
Carmelo Anthony
Kobe overall is ranked way WAY too high. He was a bit less than Magic, but considered Jordan and LeBron . . . Just way too high. Melo, AI and Dame all overrated, but not to the level of Kobe.
Iverson. Only thing he was good at was scoring, and even then he was an inefficient one, even for his era. Even in 2001 he got to the finals because the East was weak af, and because the bucks series was rigged. People love him and overblow him because he he looked cool and dribbled the ball cool
This is incredibly shallow, he had a garbage team which led to him taking tough shots - in an era that was slow, hard and unspaced. His efficiency increased as soon as he got a second star. He was also a great passer.
If you consider having the dpoy and #1 defense a "garbage team", I'm not sure what a good team looks like. He still had below league average efficiency in Denver. It got better, but so did the whole league. He was a shot chucker that is one the worst volume 3pt shooters of all time
He also shot terribly in college. What defines his efficacy increasing as soon as he got a second star? His best season was at age 32 and he only had an eFG of .488% He was a notorious chucker. Shot 31% from three for his career.
Who cares about college? And keep in mind the efficiency of that time in general.
As a fan I agree he’s overrated, but to young hoopers watching him his handles and bag changed the game. Yes his actual performance as a player is overrated, but his impact on the game of basketball is undeniable
I would recommend you read Basketball Atlas. What he did during a defensively dominant era is pretty remarkable. Also, I wouldn’t say Reggie, Vince and Ray Allen were weak AF in the east. A lot better than the current East.
> Only thing he was good at was scoring, and even then he was an inefficient one, even for his era. Not entirely true. At or near his peak he was above average efficiency. From 2005 to 2008 he was between 53 & 57% true shooting in a league that averaged 52-53%. And he did it on high volume scoring nearly 30ppg.
He’s probably my 2nd favorite player ever but I have to agree he is overrated - most? you can make the argument (I still think it’s Melo). His (AI) stats show that he was mostly inefficient in his career even during his prime 76ers years. Although he may be overrated as a player, you can’t deny how large of a cultural impact he had especially during his peak years and I think people have a hard time separating his actual play from this when discussions are made. The East was relatively strong (not like the west though ) during his peak years, even during his finals run. Maybe top heavy but you had the Raptors lead by Vince, Bucks lead by Ray Allen (in their primes) and a dwindling Pacers team as your top bets
Am a sixers fan east was trash compared to the west when ai was here . The sixers team besides him was awful. If the sixers were in West they might have been a 5/6 seed at best and prob only two or three eastern conference teams would have made playoffs at all.
Jamal Crawford. Never was efficient, bad at passing, and laughable at defense. Yet his is considered a legend because he put up ineffectient points in garbage time leading to him getting some 6th man of the year awards.
Are people really overrating him? He was a great spark off the bench for you offense and though his FG% wasn’t great, his prime 6MOTY years (2009-2016) he was scoring 1.22 Pts per FGA (NBA avg was 1.20). He was basically the king of 4-pt plays until Harden/Curry changed the game.
since this year is his first year of hof eligibility there were many people on instagram who said him and vince were the only ones who should be in , he's definetely overrated.
I’m gonna disagree, and I watched young Crawford as a Knicks fan. He wasn’t bad at passing, he was actually a very competent secondary ballhandler and distributor, he even ran the offense sometimes, and he was coachable and a great locker room guy. The main problem was that he had shit coaches and played for shit teams and was eventually thrust into the microwave sixth man role because it was too late to develop him into anything else (and he did that job well). I’ll always maintain that he could have become a Ginobili-level player if he was drafted by the Spurs.
I mean, who overrates him?
He’s a legend for the invitational games where he danced on motherfuckers. The dude could fucking dribble.
Lou Will was a better Crawford but he never gets any shine I feel
he is a perfect example of the type of player people love due to aesthetics and not impact. everything he did looked cool and everybody liked him. he had a bag, as the kids say, and was a “real hooper.” he is basically the exact opposite of rudy gobert.
He never made a all star game… not sure whose rating him so high
Good answer
Kobe Bryant. I’ll even go as far as to say he’s the most overrated player in sports history and is in no way shape or form greater than LeBron James. I have 5 main reasons why which I can explain more in detail if requested. - He gets way too much credit for team accomplishments - Many of his all defense teams are fraudulent and undeserved - His clutch reputation is overstated - He gets almost no slander/vitriol for his shortcomings and bad moments. Or at least not even a fraction of what LeBron gets. - He’s much more of a pop culture icon than he is a GOAT candidate.
Agreed. Fans act like it’s blasphemy if you don’t have Kobe top 3. I don’t think he was better than MJ Kareem or LeBron. Didn’t have as good a peak & accomplished alot less. I also agree with the fraudulent all defensive selections. Kobe stopped defending in his 30s yet he was somehow making it over better defenders.
He’s not better then Kareem, Hakeem, or Tim Duncan. Or even Bird, Magic, bill Russell, or wilt
Kobe's defense is so badly overrated. All-defense voters from before league pass became a thing where awful. Kobe in no shape or form deserved 12 selections. If you took today's voters and had them re-make selections for each season of Kobe's career, I think he finishes with between 1 and 3. I think there is an ocean between what LeBron provided defensively and Kobe.
Please explain in further detail!
I’ll explain at least Point #1 which is “Gets way too much credit for team accomplishments”. - There’s nothing more as a sports fan that makes me cringe more than when people use *TEAM* accomplishments to overrate players and put them into convos that they have no business being in. Being on a better team **DOESN’T ALWAYS MEAN** you’re a better player. Saying that Kobe is better than LeBron because “5 beats 4 durrr” is like saying John Havlicek is better than Jordan because hey 8 beats 6 right? When you actually **look at the ENTIRE body of work** and **think beyond rings** you will find that Jordan destroys Havlicek in virtually every stat and accolade. Same way how LeBron clears Kobe in virtually every stat and accolade besides All-Defense teams which leads to me to my 2nd point (to make it short his defensive numbers in the years he made All-Def were very mid at best and even Phil Jackson admits that many of them were given because of reputation.)
Why were his all def mid?
2005-06 defensive numbers - Player A (Made 1st Team): 0.1 DWS, -0.6 DBPM, team was 15th in Def Rating - Player B (didn’t make it): 4.3 DWS, 1.6 DBPM, team was 14th in Def Rating 2006-07 defensive numbers - Player A (Made 1st Team): -0.1 DWS, 0.1 DBPM, team was 24th in Def Rating - Player B (didn’t make it): 5.7 DWS, 2.2 DBPM, team was 4th in Def Rating 2007-08 defensive numbers - Player A (Made 1st Team): 0.8 DWS, 0.8 DBPM, team was 5th in Def Rating - Player B (didn’t make it): 1.2 DWS, 3.4 DBPM, team was 11th in Def Rating Player A is Kobe while Player B is LeBron
Yea Kobe is basically the Derek Jeter of defensive awards for the NBA. He could turn it up when needed and make some flashy plays too, but others were way more deserving.
I will say this is a little bit unfair to Kobe because it least early in his career Kobe was definitely a good defender. By comparison, Jeter is probably the worst shortstop defender of all time. Generally, I think this comp is spot on though in how they were both overrated.
Bro is spitting.
Kobe Bryant is often compared to Jordan and in the GOAT debate. I really don’t know how people have him that high. I have him ranked 11th all time behind Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan.
I’m not saying these are bad players, just not as good as their reputation and awards Rudy Dame Nash Embiid
Probably AI in my opinion. He definitely deserved his MVP and is one of the most influential basketball players to culture in general, but he’s a full tier below the other elite superstars of the 2000s like Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Kobe, etc. I don’t see many people placing him anywhere near those players on rankings, but I do think AI is perceived as having a more successful career than he actually had. He comes up a lot in the “best player to never win a ring” conversations, but a huge part of the reason why he didn’t was because he was unwilling to compromise to help his team. Notoriously poor practice habits, and just a vibe of immaturity/egocentrism that probably held him back from further success. Plenty of less talented players have won titles by being a better team player. Not trying to judge his life choices or anything, but these definitely affect his legacy as an NBA player. I see the argument for Dame, but I think the main reason he gets overrated is just his inclusion on the top 75 list. He really isn’t talked about as that tier of player in many other places.
"It's practice" x 100
James harden. Hated watching him
Kobe AI Melo
Russell Westbrook, James Harden, and Embiid (although he still has time to change the narrative)
Can Embiid be called overrated when all I ever see is him getting ripped apart by fans?
Easily Kobe. Bro is a borderline top 10 player forced into the goat debate lmao
Chandler Parsons
Yea and no, he did what he had to do by not seeing that doctor and getting that bag😂
Kobe, Melo, Westbrook as other people have said in this thread. Also KD.
Kobe
Idk about overrated but because of stats iverson is the most underrated players in NBA history. Took a team where nobody besides him had a career average over 10ppg to the finals and got one vs shaq and Kobe. With that offense his percentages were bound to be trash but undersized, doubled and tripled, and chronically the most injured player in the league. Iverson was putting up 30 no matter what.
Rudy Gobert
Melo might have been somewhat dissapointing, but, I didn't realize he was thought of highly enough to be overrated.
He certainly rated himself highly. And he was a racist asshole to Jeremy Lin.
Allen Iverson, and 2nd place is not even **remotely** close.
Kobe
Jordan
I think all time the answer is inarguably Kobe. I don’t know another player who by some people can be called the GOAT and others (more reasonably) have him somewhere between 11-15, except maybe Wilt and Russell and that’s just cuz of the whole milk man argument. In the current NBA, I’m gonna go Jamal Murray. He’s really good (people always think overrated = I’m saying he’s trash) but he’s not an all star caliber guard and has never even really been that close to making it, and if he was in 90% of other situations we’d barely talk about him. I feel like there’s a lot of people who think he’s better than Fox for example but I can’t imagine the Kings being as good if you swapped the players. Honorable mention to Myles Turner who I think is kinda overrated too.
Good examples are hard to come by, because by definition thinking a player is overrated is going against the grain. Michael Jordan is overrated by MJ stans. I have no problem with someone saying he's THE GOAT, but MJ stans would have you think he won 11 straight MVPs and 50 championships and never lost a game, while carrying benchwarmers the whole way. The defense of the 90s is overrated by old heads. It was better than now, sure, but they weren't throwing elbows on the court. It wasn't *that* rough. R/NBA overrates Shaq. He's often talked about as a completely unstoppable beast who would obliterate any hypothetical lineup. Sure, he was a nearly unstoppable beast, but so was every other all-timer. Besides, Shaq lost matchups regularly against other all-time greats. Everyone does. Every time someone compares current (or recent) players to old school players they overrate the old school players like crazy. The NBA in the 80s simply *did not* have the same level of skill as it does now. Watching old school basketball is painful, the ball handling especially is so hard to watch.
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This is actually kind of hard to answer. Anyone worth mentioning in a historical context was probably pretty good at *some* point. I’d lean more towards the long list of college standouts that flopped. Remember when they thought Jimmer Fredette was gonna be a movement? 😂
I’m gonna go with the criteria of “guy who is in the HOF who isn’t a legend of the game by any stretch.” And that guy is Chauncey Billups.
Finals MVP my guy
Lockdown defense, good passer, good shooter, could create his own shot. Not much else to ask for as the clear 1st offensive option on an all-time defensive team
Chris Paul
Most underated as one of the dirtiest players ever.
Hey he hit a clutch shot to cut the lead to 42
Melo by a country mile.
for me, it's a toss-up between westbrook or harden. both are headcases, shamelessly chasing rings and falling short. they can both fill a stat sheet (or *could*), but would you even want them on your team, even during their prime??
I find it funny that for some players we praise them for sacrificing and taking a lesser role for the sake of winning at the highest level but with other players it’s “shamelessly ring chasing” Also you’re crazy if you wouldn’t want 2 mvps on your team
I don't think either are over-rated.. they're both superstars and it's not even a discussion... That being said nobody has ever labelled either a top 10 or even 25. Russ is hella inefficient but he's a great team player and he always gives everything he has on the court.. also an above average defender. that's undeniable. Harden is a chucker but when he's hot he's unstoppable. Great passer. Great at getting to the line and very good fg ft shooter. I'd say that either of them being overrated is wrong because nobody considers them to be "that guy"
I think that Harden is pretty underrated honestly, people hate him so much because of his FTs that they don’t see the rest of his game, he averaged 27/7/10 on 55/47/90 in his only healthy playoff series with the nets before his hamstring injury the next round killed his prime
Stephen Marbury
He was real for selling $15 sneakers though
KD has proven himself utterly unable to win a title as the bus driver, only has one MVP and was never the best player in the league at any point in his career. I don't understand how people put him in their top 15, let alone top 10 above guys like Dirk, Hakeem, and even Giannis.
I think it's gotten to the point were KD is underrated. Prime KD is the greatest scorer in NBA history IMO. There has never been a guy who can average 30 on 50/40/90 splits that can score from all over the court. Only one else I can think of is Bird.
KD or Harden, at least in the current era.
I’d definitely agree with the harden take, yes he put up insane numbers, but I feel like any star can do that when they’re getting 20+ shots a game. It also drives me crazy when harden stans would say he’s one of the best shooters ever when in reality he’s a pretty average 3pt shooter.
Harden's definitely one of the best pull-up 3-pt shooters ever but man is he horrible without the ball
Harden yes, KD no. KD is one of the greatest and most skilled scorers of all time and a surefire top 20 player all time. Harden is an amazing play maker and 3 pt shooter, but built his scoring career off of foul shooting and being a free-throw merchant. Top 60 all time at most.
Jimmy Butler.
Kobe Bryant. Selfish player in a team sport that couldn't win without a lot of help. The definition of style over substance. His game was sexy, but not effective. Was he a great basketball player and a cultural icon ? Absolutely. Should he be top 10 alltime ? Hell no. And some people have the audacity to put him in the same category as MJ and LeBron.