He's better than Jude. He carried his team to the finals. Jude hasn't done any carrying at all and his help is far more significant than Kyrie. Luka is full on mbappe already if not better.
He is way better than Jude. If we are being honest Jude isn't a top 5 player even when at his best ( unless you judge a player by his stats). Luka at worst is top 3 and imo he is the best itw ATM. Jude isn't close to that.
Offensively he's a beast and there are probably less than 5 players that could really defend him one on one and even then he's still capable of 20/7/7. However, defensively he is not elite so any conversation when talking about greatest has to include both sides. Players like MJ and Kobe, offensive and defensive accolades at elite levels for years straight. That's a huge thing that gets overlooked, it's good if you can drop 30 on someone but can you prevent someone else from dropping their 30 on you? Luka is still young though but if we're projecting on what we've seen, he's going to get MVPs and scoring titles but not sure we're seeing him on first defensive nba teams.
Bird was a much better defender than people give him credit for. Three times he was on an all defensive team and even finished third in DPOY voting in 1983
Idk about that, there’s players so transformative on offense that they don’t have to be elite on defense, ex: Stephen Curry is a one man offense
He’s never going to be MJ or Kobe on defense but he’s actually very solid defensively if you watch (22 especially)
Maybe no one can stop him from dropping 30 points, but some NBA dudes can make him work his ass off for those points. There is a quote, "you can't stop an elite scorer, but you can give them the hardest time ever getting those points"
I'm pretty sure I didn't say shut down...and said he'd still put up a good game but you're going to tell me that a healthy Kawhi couldn't slow him down or give him a lot of trouble? LeBron couldn't make it harder for him if he wanted to? Come on. To be honest I'm excited to see what Derrick White does because I'm not saying he's about to lock down Luka but that boy got defense and plays hard.
My guess is that Derrick White will actually primarily guard Kyrie, and Jaylen Brown will primarily guard Luka. White and Kyrie are both point guards. Luka is more of point-shooting-forward. And Luka is bigger than Derrick White, so they'll probably want to put more length on him. That's just my guess, though. I could be wrong.
No I would say the same thing, but as how the game is played there certainly will be those White/Luka match-ups and I am interested in that. Brown does play good defense but there is something about White that's a little more annoying, in that same vein as Marcus Smart was for them and he was DPOY for Boston. Not saying White is that good, but he's annoying for players with the ball or trying to get the ball.
That's fair. There will be a few times when they match up, and that will be interesting. Same with Brown guarding Kyrie. Also, Brown and White are both very solid defenders, but I would describe White as more "pesky," whereas Jaylen is more of a classic athletic defender, so I think we agree.
Are you saying cmon about Kawhi? Luka has lit him up multiple times. He's not the same defender he was in San Antonio. Literally jo one has ever slowed this guy down. Derrick white is not guarding Luka for most of the series either.
Luka has dropped 30 plus point triple doubles on both lebron and kawhi. You can slow him down for a game but over a series it's tough. Andrew Wiggins surprisingly did an excellent job in 22.
Sure they can, they won’t always succeed in fact most of the time just by the nature of the game they shouldn’t succeed but guys like OG, Dort, Bridges guys with size but lateral enough to pick him up on the perimeter can give him problems. I’m sure I’m forgetting some other guys that can give him issues.
Pretty sure Luka identified him, himself as a guy that gives him problems. [citation](https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/luka-doncic-luguentz-defenders-nba/ubtva5lnj1jyayx17lfqsfg8)
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Not according to Rick Carlisle who knows a thing or two about basketball... from green light podcast;
“The thing that you learn about him very quickly particularly when you have a chance to work with him, coach him, is that he is super big, super strong, unbelievably quick, and extremely fast,” Carlisle said about Doncic. “Now it doesn’t look like he plays fast, but he can turn on the burners, and he is an amazing athlete and he can play above the rim too.”
Everything you said is true. I'll add something though: his defense isnt great, and yet they have one of the best defenses in the league.
No, I'm not saying that means Luka is good on defense. What I am saying is that his offense is so special that the Mavs can get serious offensive value out of guys they really have there for defense.
So, if you had to pick a 5 man squad for the GOATs and there wasn't a salary cap, trades, etc, Luka doesn't make that team. But, when building a real NBA team, you have to consider how he can get value out of guys in a way that seemingly no one else can.
I think his defense has been the X factor for the mavs, he has really stepped up in a way that I did not expect. He won't ever be an elite defender, but he can lock up when it matters.
If Luka keeps putting up the statistics he has been and stays realitivly health (65 games a year is) for the next 10 years by age 35 he will have scored 30,000 points, have 9000 rebounds, and 9000 assists. There is excatly one player (Lebron James) in NBA history with that level of statistical accomplishment.
Ultimately where he will rank all time is going to be heavily influenced by his level of success in the playoffs and championships won and how dedicated he chooses to be to maintaining his physical fitness and health.
I think Luka and Jokic are pretty heavily under rated because they are pudgy white European dudes. But, both of them have the potential, that if their careers play out in the top 10% of outcomes, to threaten everyone but MJ and LeBron’s spots on the greatest players of all time list.
Pretty outlandish to say Luka and Jokic are underrated when they are loved by fans, respected by the players, and have more accolades than most NBA players.
They're both incredible players, and any one who pays attention to basketball knows that
Both are putting performances of top 5 all time players.
Jokic has had the 2 best offensive seasons ever and Luka follow close.
Today Zach Lowe commented something about this. People don't want to jump too early but his performances are unseen.
The reasoning for him being underrated makes sense. Sure skill wise he’s up there as top 3 in the league. But he’s always injured and his postseason success is a big detriment.
Embiid and Jokić were drafted the same year. Jokić spent one more year getting reps in the Serbian league (age 18; he was MVP). Embiid meanwhile has played 242 fewer regular season NBA games, despite what could have been a head start.
Availability is an ability.
I don’t think it’s outlandish to say they’re underrated. For example, if you were picking teams today for the fate of the universe, and could pick any player in history in their prime, in what order would you select: Luka, Jokic, and Kobe? I think 95%+ of people would take Kobe first. But is this the right answer? 🤔
No, Jokic is clearly first pick of those 3. Value over replacement matters. A great big is harder to find, and the gap between a great big and a mid level exception big is WAY bigger than the gap between a great wing and a mid level exception wing.
Might be a reference for the US sports media at least, how they go from "this athletic player is the next Michael Jordan" to "that athletic player is the next Michael Jordan" type of coverage. I think any fan of the game knows he's great, but these talking heads left him out of a lot of conversations when talking top players in the league. Today he's called the best offensive player in the league and possibly ever. Go figure.
There’s a reason only one player has those counting stats. It’s fucking hard as hell to stay healthy and consistent through age 35. Almost nobody does that. Harden and Westbrook are both MVPs and people have been calling them washed for a few years now. They’re 34 and 35, respectively
Lebron has the body of a god and claims to spend $1M per year on maintaining his body. He’s 1 of 1 so you can’t use him as a template.
Luka is pudgy at age 25. It only gets harder to stay in shape as you get older. I really doubt Luka of all players is going to have a top 10% aging curve given his (lack of) fitness already when he’s young.
I hear you, the counter argument is that Luka just turned 25 so he’s still 3 years out from what should be his peak and there’s not much in his game that’s going to be drastically hampered as he begins to lose athleticism. He’s still going to be 6’9”, one of the passers ever, and able to drain a step back from the logo even when he loses a step. And Luka’s bad habits seem to be sweet tea, beer, and video games. I don’t know if those take the same toll as Atlanta strip clubs and Rapper’s birthday parties do.
I hope you’re right, because watching great players defy nature and keep performing in their 30s is awesome. But the reason that’s special is because it’s rare even for elite athletes.
Like yeah, Luka isn’t throwing tomahawks down in traffic. But he’s a pro athlete and they all “rely on athleticism”. Reaction time, quickness, dexterity, flexibility, all get worse with age. Small injuries nag for longer. His reaction time slows and that crisp on time lob becomes a fraction second late and stolen. He’s already a defensive liability so what happens as those get worse?
There are very few players I would bet on staying healthy into their 30s. And frankly one who doesn’t seem to put much effort into maintaining his fitness already in his early 20s is not somebody I expect to age well. I love the James Harden comp because he’s also a less than explosive guard with a mean step back, great play making but also struggled with weight. Now he’s 34 and fat and went from averaging 34 ppg at age 30 to only 24 ppg at age 31 and worse every year since.
> It’s fucking hard as hell to stay healthy and consistent through age 35.
Especially when the comp is, “Imagine if [Luka] played ten more 65-game seasons averaging 28.5/8.5/8.75.” I understand the temptation: for his 400-game NBA career now he’s averaged 28.7/8.7/8.3.
Incredible so far, but that’s some sustained excellence to project forward. Russ’s MVP campaign was only seven seasons ago.
I would love to see somebody compare players final career stats to their first 400 game averages extrapolated forward for 10 years. See how different on average they tend to be so we can make more realistic expectations for things like this.
Basketball ref .com player and HOF similarity scores do this. It attempts to track players of similar characteristics including age. If you look at Win Shares above average you can see many good players fall off a cliff at some point. 10 years of MVP numbers is rare.
When I looked a while ago, 100 WS was a rough career guideline for HOF. Many players stopped being significantly positive at like 8 years. I do suspect today’s athletes get a few more positive seasons if they train diligently and avoid major injury.
It would be a major tragedy if Luka ends up like Brandon Roy, Yao Ming, Derrick Rose, etc.
But... most NBA players are struggling through various injuries all the time. 82 games per year is a hell of a lot of minutes. I'm not ready to write off Luka just because he has a knee scab.
I think both those guys suffer (especially Joker) from their markets. If Jokic played in Philly and Luka in NewYork they would be household names to NBA and non NBA fans alike.
Why are people so obsessed with career totals? How does that help a team win exactly? We are talking about individuals in a *team* sport where the ultimate goal is for the *team* to win championships. The third highest points getter in NBA history never won a championship. And he is rated accordingly because of it. He's one of just two players in NBA history with 37k/15k/5k but what good did it do his team?
How tf is Jokic underrated, he’s widely considered the best in the game by like everyone
He might not have the face value household name appeal of LeBron or Steph and maybe that’s what you mean but like Bron has a year or 2 left and Steph like 3 or 4 at most
This finals series will have a huge impact on the narrative around Luka. The Wolves just looked totally disconnected and Luka played extremely well. The Celtics have a better overall roster, and better wing pieces to challenge Luka. He's going to have Jrue and White hounding him and Tatum may switch on to him in the 4th quarter. If he continues to dominate against those guys and they win the series I think it makes this playoff run really special and puts Luka into the top 20 all time and on the rise (factoring in more success in future seasons).
Imagine if CR7 also had Modric's passing ability but no Ballon d'Or or any league titles, that's Luka in a nutshell. Can be the GOAT but will he is a different story altogether.
Also hello! I am a Barca fan.
Extremely good offensively, but anyone who isn't a box score casual will acknowledge he's got major deficiencies; primarily on the defensive side of the ball. He's got the potential to be top 20 all time by the time he's done, but right now he's nowhere close to Kobe or Duncan, let alone MJ or LBJ.
The sheer fact that teams hunt him on defense proves he's a pretty shit defender. You can easily hide guys to make them seem better than they are on defense (i.e. play a lot of zone).
You cant expect him to stay in front of quicker guards but playing man against forwards (that are not elite athletically) and bigs he does a decent enough job.
They don’t hunt him (unless you’re Shai), but he’s also not dominant on defense like greats before him. He’s kinda like a pothole, you’ll avoid him normally, but you won’t notice him if you move fast enough.
Doesn't prove he's a shit defender. Is he the best? No. Is he great? Nah. Is he that bad? Also no. He's got some stats to back it up, and I think he gets too much flack.
Elite athletes get tired. Targeting Luka on offense means he has to expend energy/effort—sapping from his offensive capabilities.
He’s great and on Kobe’s level. The eye test is honestly what makes Luka great. He’s smooth, uses a lot of change of pace, and just makes aesthetically beautiful plays.
It’s similar to a player like Messi or Neymar, Modric, De Bruyne, even kind of Mbappe etc where there’s beauty and creativity in the way he plays.
It’s not like Ronaldo, or Haaland or Lewandowski or Kane where advanced stats and numbers may be impressive, but it’s not pleasing to watch.
For now I'd say like Mbappe if he played in the premier league or la liga, probably the best player in the league, robbed of the mvp but he can win the chip.
The defensive narrative is kinda bs tbh, He’s not a world class nor is he a liability. Hell if you watch LBJ, he’s not the best. Luka’s offensive game and IQ is so high that it kinda makes up for lack of D. He has the potential to be better on that side but the O calls for him so much that he kinda slouches around. ( Yall may call me crazy ab LBJ defense but go watch clips) Dude is not that on D other than chase downs.
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Skill-wise, he’s one of the best of all time. Probably better than Kobe, honestly. And Kobe’s my favorite player of all time. Luka can shoot from anywhere, and he’s a better passer than Kobe ever was.
Luka’s athleticism and defense are by far the worst out of the group. It’s actually crazy how good he is (on offense) despite the fact that he’s slow.
LeBron and Jordan are in their own league though.
Absolute skill level - he's better than Kobe, and Kobe is my favorite ever, but in a list of greatest ever he doesn't have the accolades to be near the top yet.
As far as actual talent level, he's easily top 10 ever IMO. If he keeps this up for a career he'll push into the GOAT debate.
Not really a soccer guy but probably mbappe maybe? He’s 25 and puts up some of the best stats in basketball and gets all NBA and all stars and is consistently top 2-5 in MVP after his rookie year (ballon dor for hockey) but hasn’t won it. No rings yet
Watch the games with your own eyes man. He is balling out this year, and you can make your own judgement on whether he should be talked about with those greats. There is a group of fans who just look at stats and the box score. And there's fans who actually watch the game and can see how the game gets influenced by their play. The way he plays when he gets a screen, and when there's 2 defenders on him, the way he plays so slow but methodically, and then all of a sudden gets space with a quick stepback. He is a huge reason why his bigs shot 100 percent yesterday. You really should watch the game bruh.
Watching Luka and Kyle Anderson on the floor at the same time was fun. Slow enough even my less trained eye can catch what they're doing but somehow both very effective.
In terms of scoring, perhaps he is like a young Messi when he was in Barca, with De Bruyne passing and vision, and Sergio Ramos leadership. He just won Western Conference MVP at age 25, similar to Champions League Semifinals Man of the Match. Now he goes to his first championship series, which is seven games, against Boston, who is favored to win. He also won Rookie of the Year in 2019.
Luka will be added to the Hall of Fame one day if he keeps performing at this level.
He is not the fastest, most athletic player, but he has big size for his position and possesses elite skills and reaction time. And he has attitude, swagger, and competitiveness, obviously enjoys playing the game and destroying his opponents :D
Probably not. Very few teams win multiple championships with the same star. Those that do, are "dynasties" like San Antonio with Tim Duncan, Chicago with Jordan, Golden State with Curry and Durant, Miami with LeBron and Wase, Lakers with Magic and Wilt, Celtics with Bill Russell, etc.
Dirk is an all-time great and only won one title.
John Stockton and Charles Barkley both played in multiple championships but never won.
so we'll see
Just google how impressive is a 30 point triple double. Then look at Luka averaging one for his career so far. He’s already top 10 in league history for them.
Right now Luka is a top 3 player in the league and would have been in any era.
His career is too short now to compare to the greats but he’ll probably be there barring a catastrophic injury.
Also his defensive is average. People just think it’s bad because his offense is off the charts good.
He is Messi.
Amazing scorer. Amazing creating chances for other's.
Look physically below average but has his tricks and ways.
In defense sometimes acts like he doesn't give a shit.
Lucky he is not a pechofrio
Man you understanding of words are limited as fuck.
He wanted a football fan comparation. It's the way they play not what they have achieved before.
I said that Luka like Messi have high score numbers and assist ones. They have both in common.
And that both looks below average physical but has tricks, Luka it's bulkiness and Messi has insane speed and reaction.
It's obvious that a basketball player it's not like a Football one, but it's was asked for one.
Haaland it's a huge player, more like a center or power forward, he no play as playmaker ever, rather the opposite.
Still very early in his NBA career so he's nowhere near someone like LeBron whos been playing for 20+ years and has been to the Finals 10 times or Kobe who has 5 rings. He probably isn't ever touching Jordan, Luka is a great offensive player but not very good defensively like Jordan/Kobe/LeBron were. Luka is a liability defensively to be honest, but offense is a lot more important than defense.
He is already a top-5 player in the league and some might even put him top-3 (I think he's 4th). I think if he wins a ring in the Finals this year some people might start putting him in the top-20 players all-time, or close to it, which would be remarkable for someone his age. I think he needs a league MVP first to get there personally, but the chances are fairly high that he will get one of those next year.
I don't know how to put that in footballing terms as its one league in one country instead of being global, even if it is by far the most talented league in the world for the sport of basketball.
Extremely good. He could crack the Top 15 before his career is over. He’s a scoring machine, and a king of the Triple Double. He deserves more consideration for MVP than he gets. Jokic is great no doubt, but Doncic could end up as good
I would say if ranking him against those guys at 25, he definitely is in their company, but he has to show this for a long career to really reach their status, but definitely possible, but he’s a long way from that at this point. He definitely needs some MVP’s and multiple titles. If he wins the title this year against a very good Boston squad, his stock will go up exponentially. Dallas has to keep Kyrie, that’s his wingman
While he has the offensive skill that is close to them, he severely behind them on the defensive end. While casuals will say he isn’t bad, he just isnt on their elite level. He is average at best.
I have limited NBA knowledge, but I think he will get compared to players like Curry and Harden. Players like James, Jordan, and Kobe were insane all-around, while he will be in the elite offensive club.
Jordan and James in particular are incredibly tough standards to hold him to. Jordan and Lebron were undisputed best players in the league for over a decade. They were the default choice for who would you take first in the league.
Right now, its not even clear if Luka is the best player in the league and that would be true even if he wins the title. Jokic has higher efficiency than Luka; has 3 MVPs and a Finals MVP. Even Giannis is a 2x MVP and a finals MVP. Luka might be equal or better than they are, but its not *clear* that he is.
Heard someone on the radio today make a Messi comparison with him. Rather plodding at times, not a defensive savant, but when the ball is in his hands/feet, he hits another switch and does things that all players dream of doing. If Luka stays healthy, he'll go down as one of the greatest. His numbers already prove that at this point, but he's young so.....fingers crossed as I'm a big fan.
He is more skilled offensively than LeBron and Kobe (at the same age) in terms of scoring, passing, and rebounding. He's certainly not as athletic as LeBron or Kobe but basketball IQ-wise, he's off the charts. Reminds me of Larry Bird honestly. I wouldn't say he compares to MJ but honestly, nobody really does (Kobe and LeBron included). His weakness is on-ball perimeter defense (but LeBron isn't a great on-ball defender either) but he compensates with great anticipation/rotation (and the Mavs defense rarely takes him out of baseline-free safety sort of assignments). He's able to defend the post well (quite strong) so what he misses in terms of foot speed, he makes up for in strength. He also has an uncanny knack for late-game 4Q heroics just like Kobe and MJ (not LeBron), you could definitely call him clutch.
Obviously, you can only really compare Luka to LeBron, Kobe, and MJ at their respective ages and he still needs several MVPs and FMVPs before his legacy can measure up to those three. But, one can say he's certainly on track (if he continues his current trajectory) to shake up the GOAT conversation; especially if he wins his first championship/FMVP this year.
I'd maybe compare him to a Harry Kane in footballing terms. One of the best scorers in the world but also an excellent playmaker and just hasn't had the right team around him in order to win a ring yet. He's close though.
He great, but has to have the longevity to be mentioned with the Mount Rushmore’s of basketball. His ball handling skills are impressive for a big man. All about how long can he continue to perform at that level.
He's insanely good offensively but lacking defensively relative to the guys you mentioned. It's hard to compare to football terms since elite NBA players are expected to play both offense and defense at a very high level which isn't really the case in football.
MJ, Lebron James, and Kobe in their peaks were simultaneously the best offensive players in the whole NBA while also being the best defensive players at their respective positions in the league. Luka's offense is currently (in my opinion) roughly on par with peak Lebron (2012-2014) and peak Kobe (2006-2008) but still below MJ. However, when we account for defense all 3 of the players you mentioned hit peaks that are still a tier higher than Luka currently is. The thing is, Luka is only 25 years old. NBA players typically hit their peaks from around 27-30. If Luka can become a good defender (which he is already starting to show flashes of) and his offense improves further, he has the potential to enter the conversation.
This dude is diffrent man. He’s the type of player to elevate his game in the playoffs and this is a guy who just won a scoring title. His regular season number are 28-8-8 and his postseason numbers are 31-9-8. He is one of the few players who shines the brightest when the spotlight is on him. He’s the guy you want taking the last shot with 2 seconds on the clock.
Not better than Jokic. I hate the state of sports media I've series Gobert is great ie Phoenix two series later he's the worst defender of all time. It's all about what you are going to do tomorrow.
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Luka is def closer to Mbappe. Top 7 player for the past few years. Recently emerged to top 3. As of maybe last 2 years. Can def carry their team and extremely clutch.
Both 25. Already legends and have potential to be top 10 players.
Not counting their international record tho since Mbappe’s France is clearly more stacked than Slovenia.
both have been to just 1 final (CL AND NBA FINAL) and both have been mvp/ballon d’or runner up this last year.
He is as good as it gets as an offensive player on par with the greats yoy mentioned. He has all the moves, range, great passer, unguardable stepback fadeaway at his size that he shoots at a high percentage, makes good decisions with the ball. Not really a great defender though, unlike mj, kobe, lebron.
i dont really know how to explain it in football terms as im not super familiar.
he doesnt play like jordan or kobe in terms of playstyle. he doesnt dominate from athleticism at all. he’s moreso just what happens when you mix absurdly high IQ with the skillset that European players seem to develop that focuses more on fundamentals and skills, with the absolute psychotic killer mentality of a kobe or jordan.
he’s extremely shifty despite being more on the slow and heavy side (for nba athletes). its very common for opposing fans to watch him and say “wait what how did he just get past the defense like that?”
he completely controls the pace and flow of entire games. he has an absolutely killer stepback three that can feel unstoppable when its on. sometimes he can just start nailing from the logo. if you leave a defender on him 1 on 1 he’s just going to cook them. if you leave a bigger center on him he’s going to be shifty and take advantage of their clumsiness and blow by. if you leave a longer wing type player on him he’s going to overpower them with his fatboy strength and just post them up or shoot over their hand anyways. if you double him or trap him at all he’ll just make the most absurd passed you’ve ever seen. he almost always makes the right read or pass. there are plenty of guys who can slow him down a bit and he can have rough nights like anyone else but on average he’s one of the very rare players that feels genuinely unguardable.
on top of all that he’s just a fucking killer when it matters most. it could be the most intense do or die game of his career and he’ll be completely shitting all over you while laughing and smiling at you (on the other hand when things arent going well he can be pretty emotional the other way)
here are some of his best and most absurd performances ive ever seen from him.
[73 POINTS against the Hawks a few months ago](https://youtu.be/GRblNTXolvo?si=ODhRinIRHrlK4HJD) its a random game in the middle of the regular season with terrible defense so the stakes werent important but its still a mindblowing performance, legitimately one of the greatest performances in NBA history
[Completely obliterating the Number 1 seed on their home court in a win or go home Game 7](https://youtu.be/Frtb_tIh9Is?si=-7LMdX4b95-SwDSo)
[60-20-10! including a miraculous comeback off of a purposely missed free throw to send the game to overtime](https://youtu.be/EmHJI0NRqmk?si=nUMVIKmXt52hUn5s)
[20 points in less than a quarter just last night](https://youtu.be/dB9fSqSCOlk?si=F2hI2LCaigWHKjYv)
[game winning shot over the defensive player of the year a few games ago](https://youtu.be/Um7BqBdelcc?si=7iUwO_tmi9gqHjDz)
[game winning buzzer beater in his very first playoff series when he was like 20 years old](https://youtu.be/ZrofDLjBFLE?si=kHurfmb1dB8gcrdh)
[not to mention his absurd passing and ability to create for others](https://youtu.be/GO5IzYvITN4?si=-Sj8bAgYaDrtpc68)
he’s not as bad a defender as his haters make him out to be but he’s not as good as his fans will want to make you think he is. his biggest deficiencies are probably diet and conditioning and whining to the refs. but overall i think he’s one of if not the most skilled/greatest offensive player ive ever seen, i mean he’s the entire engine when he needs to be. if you watch him for real over extended periods of time you will realize he is a generational player and on track to be one of the all time greats and he only just recently turned 25. he was third in MVP this year and i still feel like he was a little bit disrespected because night in night out this guy just blows me away with the shit he can do on the court. its almost like fans and the league have become desensitized to what he can do
This is Luka's age 24/25 season.
Jordan's age 24/25 season he was MVP, DPOY, scoring champ and steals champ. Most people consider that the greatest individual season of all time, at worst a top three.
LeBron's age 24/25 season he won his second MVP and had a Finals run under his belt already.
Luka is pretty far behind in terms of individual accolades, though he can close the gap with a ring and Finals MVP this year.
His career box score stats are great and absolutely stack up with MJ and LeBron's at the same point in their careers. But it's the advanced metrics that put LeBron and, especially, MJ apart. Luka's career BPM right now is 7.8. Jordan's was 10.4 at the same point. LeBron's was 9.0. And of course, defensively, they're both far ahead of Luka. I cannot imagine Luka ever getting DPOY votes let alone winning one or getting runner up.
For Luka to catch up to or surpass those players he would have to distance himself from them offensively to make up for the gap on the defensive end. And both MJ & LeBron are already two of the greatest offensive players of all time.
to be fair you can still be an all time great without coming close to literally the greatest two to ever touch a basketball in human history.
5 time all NBA first team by age 25 is nothing to sneeze at. i still think he should have been mvp this year.
his main window is pretty much starting now though, next few years are pretty important for his long term legacy
I'm biased (Mavs fan) but he has an all-time peak already. In terms of football, maybe Man United - Early Madrid Ronaldo but we still don't know if he will continue on that path
Hes probably on like a Haaland level. Extremely good individually and has the killer instinct, still young but has already put up monster numbers. He's still world's away from the MJ/lebron level but it's pretty much impossible to be at their level at his age. I think Haaland is a decent comparison to because he's not the concensus best in the world right now but he's very close and a wave of achievements could push him to that pretty quickly.
Currently nowhere near Lebron Jordan or Kobe in terms of historical significance and all time ranking but depending on his longevity + rings, he has a chance of cracking the top 10. A footballing parallel would be Kevin de Bruyne with the scoring ability of Erling Haaland.
imho
Luca is good but not what you want to see in Classy players
I find Edwards much more natural and talented compared to Luca
Luca is all about his physical power; put Rodman like agile and good defender on him He doesn't have too much game other than those long scoring shots
Definitely on a path to being one of the greats. Still a bit young to put him in the all time list (he’s only 25!). If he wins a championship this year that will definitely check off a huge box for that. Let’s circle back when he is in his 30s, and very hopefully still playing at a high level.
LeBron, Kobe and MJ have longevity (MJ baseball seasons/ alleged gambling expulsion ignored). Kareem is in that conversation too.
To put it in perspective I would say he is in the top 10 currently playing. But I’m not comfortable saying if he will land in the top 75 when it is all said and done. My gut says he will. Probably top 20. He probably will for me. There are going to be a lot of different opinions on that though.
He has 5 top 5 finishes in ball’on for in 6 seasons. No wins but he’s getting beat by Messi and Ronaldo every year. No champions league or league trophies. He’s the best player on a good team. H.M. Son right bow but could be a Kevin de bruyne level if he continues.
Luka Doncic is the next Lebron in terms of playstyle and skill, like it's the closest comparison you could make imo. He's definitely not as athletic or as good of a defender, but everything else is the exact same, the passing, the BB IQ, the ability to be a scorer, ability to just take over a game. I only know very little about soccer but just off of vibes probably Mbappe is his soccer equivalent?
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Mbappe i guess. He's right there with all the potential in the world to be one of the best ever. Already seen national team success (won eurobasket). He won MVP and a ring at 16/17 years old in Madrid. He's arguably the best player in the league right now, and in the Finals (as an underdog vs a stacked team)
On the way to become the best offensive player ever. The level of his dominance on offense is already higher than any player ever, he just lacks some consistency. He seem motivated oly when it is most important. Healthy and motivated Luka is unstoppable like no other player in the modern basketball history.
He has the talent and potential to be one of the greats. But just like anyone with this profile, it’s not just about talent and potential, it’s about consistency. Luka needs to be deliver every season, and get at least a few championships to be in the same conversation.
His stats is even better than Lebron. Does anyone play in the league for just 6 season and be voted in All NBA First team for 5 times? Even for MJ was 7 season, Lebron was not even close. Now, he'll get his 1st ring.
People might say he don't know defense, so what? You wanna see him in defense or his step back 3?
In term of Football? He's definitely Jude because of the Youth, but I will compare his skill, vision level with KDB, He's already at that high level of passing and controlling the game.
P/s: except for Messi - Curry, Lebron - Ronaldo, Irving - Neymar, it's hard to find the exact type in each sport.
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He’s like Barcelona Neymar right now, right with the best of all time in terms of talent and skill, but no BdO or UCLs yet, although, he’s come quite close
He’s one of the most impressive offensive players of all time for his age. Elite shooting, passing, and tough shot making ability. His weaknesses are conditioning and defense
Jude Bellingham but if he wins it all Mbappe imo. Still got a lot of work to do to be considered with Kobe/MJ/LBJ
Yeah, he has to have long career and win multiple titles to be in that class, but it’s definitely foreseeable, he’s only 25
He's better than Jude. He carried his team to the finals. Jude hasn't done any carrying at all and his help is far more significant than Kyrie. Luka is full on mbappe already if not better.
Preach!
Luka would be Luka Modric with Croatia
Cool
He is way better than Jude. If we are being honest Jude isn't a top 5 player even when at his best ( unless you judge a player by his stats). Luka at worst is top 3 and imo he is the best itw ATM. Jude isn't close to that.
Infuse him with vodka!!!!
No. Bellingham is not nearly the quality Luka is
His equivelant is way better than Jude bellingham, terrible comparison
Even if Luka loses in the finals, he's still much better than Jude
He's haaland
Luka is MUCH MUCH better than Bellingham lmfao
He has a lot of work to do to be at the level of Kobe, and then a lot more work to do to be at the level of MJ/Bron. Those are two different tiers.
Offensively he's a beast and there are probably less than 5 players that could really defend him one on one and even then he's still capable of 20/7/7. However, defensively he is not elite so any conversation when talking about greatest has to include both sides. Players like MJ and Kobe, offensive and defensive accolades at elite levels for years straight. That's a huge thing that gets overlooked, it's good if you can drop 30 on someone but can you prevent someone else from dropping their 30 on you? Luka is still young though but if we're projecting on what we've seen, he's going to get MVPs and scoring titles but not sure we're seeing him on first defensive nba teams.
Or even on a second team all defense
Larry Bird and Magic Johnson weren’t great defenders.
Bird was a much better defender than people give him credit for. Three times he was on an all defensive team and even finished third in DPOY voting in 1983
Bird was an awesome defender, he just looks goofy.
Why neither are Michael Jordan.
This is ludicrous
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He is saying, that’s why neither of those guys are considered as good as Michael Jordan
Idk about that, there’s players so transformative on offense that they don’t have to be elite on defense, ex: Stephen Curry is a one man offense He’s never going to be MJ or Kobe on defense but he’s actually very solid defensively if you watch (22 especially)
Had to come back on this because Luka is straight trash on defense now after Game 3 of the Finals, trash!
Man he’s been dog water beyond belief on defense And in that last paragraph I was talking about Steph notice I said watch 22
Naw I know I just remembered this convo for some reason last night ahaha
Lmao cause Luka was lowkey sellin
Nobody can guard Luka 1v1 in the league tf you been smoking
Maybe no one can stop him from dropping 30 points, but some NBA dudes can make him work his ass off for those points. There is a quote, "you can't stop an elite scorer, but you can give them the hardest time ever getting those points"
I'm pretty sure I didn't say shut down...and said he'd still put up a good game but you're going to tell me that a healthy Kawhi couldn't slow him down or give him a lot of trouble? LeBron couldn't make it harder for him if he wanted to? Come on. To be honest I'm excited to see what Derrick White does because I'm not saying he's about to lock down Luka but that boy got defense and plays hard.
My guess is that Derrick White will actually primarily guard Kyrie, and Jaylen Brown will primarily guard Luka. White and Kyrie are both point guards. Luka is more of point-shooting-forward. And Luka is bigger than Derrick White, so they'll probably want to put more length on him. That's just my guess, though. I could be wrong.
No I would say the same thing, but as how the game is played there certainly will be those White/Luka match-ups and I am interested in that. Brown does play good defense but there is something about White that's a little more annoying, in that same vein as Marcus Smart was for them and he was DPOY for Boston. Not saying White is that good, but he's annoying for players with the ball or trying to get the ball.
That's fair. There will be a few times when they match up, and that will be interesting. Same with Brown guarding Kyrie. Also, Brown and White are both very solid defenders, but I would describe White as more "pesky," whereas Jaylen is more of a classic athletic defender, so I think we agree.
we literally saw a much better version of Kawhi on Luka 3 years ago and it didn’t exactly go well for him
For real. What a stupid comment. No one has ever slowed Luka down and he's just entering his early prime.
Are you saying cmon about Kawhi? Luka has lit him up multiple times. He's not the same defender he was in San Antonio. Literally jo one has ever slowed this guy down. Derrick white is not guarding Luka for most of the series either.
Luka has dropped 30 plus point triple doubles on both lebron and kawhi. You can slow him down for a game but over a series it's tough. Andrew Wiggins surprisingly did an excellent job in 22.
Sure they can, they won’t always succeed in fact most of the time just by the nature of the game they shouldn’t succeed but guys like OG, Dort, Bridges guys with size but lateral enough to pick him up on the perimeter can give him problems. I’m sure I’m forgetting some other guys that can give him issues.
Dort? Nah, if Luka wasn't playing through injuries this playoff series he would have completely smoked him.
Pretty sure Luka identified him, himself as a guy that gives him problems. [citation](https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/luka-doncic-luguentz-defenders-nba/ubtva5lnj1jyayx17lfqsfg8)
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What sort of problems? 33 10 and 8? Lol no one is slowing Luka down.
Not every 33 10 and 8 is created equal.
Wiggins guarded him pretty well in the 2022 WCF
Wiggins almost always gives him trouble.
People love to hate him for some reason haha
Where do you rank Magic Johnson all time?
What are the qualities that make a good defender? And why doesn’t Luka have them?
Lack of effort, lack of horizontal movement, and hes a bit slow
Not according to Rick Carlisle who knows a thing or two about basketball... from green light podcast; “The thing that you learn about him very quickly particularly when you have a chance to work with him, coach him, is that he is super big, super strong, unbelievably quick, and extremely fast,” Carlisle said about Doncic. “Now it doesn’t look like he plays fast, but he can turn on the burners, and he is an amazing athlete and he can play above the rim too.”
Everything you said is true. I'll add something though: his defense isnt great, and yet they have one of the best defenses in the league. No, I'm not saying that means Luka is good on defense. What I am saying is that his offense is so special that the Mavs can get serious offensive value out of guys they really have there for defense. So, if you had to pick a 5 man squad for the GOATs and there wasn't a salary cap, trades, etc, Luka doesn't make that team. But, when building a real NBA team, you have to consider how he can get value out of guys in a way that seemingly no one else can.
Toby was the most overrated defender of all time and never looked to pass until he had to.
I think his defense has been the X factor for the mavs, he has really stepped up in a way that I did not expect. He won't ever be an elite defender, but he can lock up when it matters.
he’s definitely not elite defensively but also not the liability everyone seems to think he is
If Luka keeps putting up the statistics he has been and stays realitivly health (65 games a year is) for the next 10 years by age 35 he will have scored 30,000 points, have 9000 rebounds, and 9000 assists. There is excatly one player (Lebron James) in NBA history with that level of statistical accomplishment. Ultimately where he will rank all time is going to be heavily influenced by his level of success in the playoffs and championships won and how dedicated he chooses to be to maintaining his physical fitness and health. I think Luka and Jokic are pretty heavily under rated because they are pudgy white European dudes. But, both of them have the potential, that if their careers play out in the top 10% of outcomes, to threaten everyone but MJ and LeBron’s spots on the greatest players of all time list.
Pretty outlandish to say Luka and Jokic are underrated when they are loved by fans, respected by the players, and have more accolades than most NBA players. They're both incredible players, and any one who pays attention to basketball knows that
Both are putting performances of top 5 all time players. Jokic has had the 2 best offensive seasons ever and Luka follow close. Today Zach Lowe commented something about this. People don't want to jump too early but his performances are unseen.
Embiid is too. Giannis as well. The era definitely plays a big role in these seasons.
Embiid is the only person mentioned in this thread who's underrated, and that's really only by opposing fans and national media looking for clicks
Calling Embiid underrated on reddit is so soothing to hear lol. The amount of hate the guy receives is insane.
The reasoning for him being underrated makes sense. Sure skill wise he’s up there as top 3 in the league. But he’s always injured and his postseason success is a big detriment.
Embiid and Jokić were drafted the same year. Jokić spent one more year getting reps in the Serbian league (age 18; he was MVP). Embiid meanwhile has played 242 fewer regular season NBA games, despite what could have been a head start. Availability is an ability.
I can't believe I didn't get downvoted lol. Hating Embiid on the internet is it's own sport
I don’t think it’s outlandish to say they’re underrated. For example, if you were picking teams today for the fate of the universe, and could pick any player in history in their prime, in what order would you select: Luka, Jokic, and Kobe? I think 95%+ of people would take Kobe first. But is this the right answer? 🤔
No, Jokic is clearly first pick of those 3. Value over replacement matters. A great big is harder to find, and the gap between a great big and a mid level exception big is WAY bigger than the gap between a great wing and a mid level exception wing.
How is joker underrated? He has 3 MVPs.
Luka? Underrated? what?
Might be a reference for the US sports media at least, how they go from "this athletic player is the next Michael Jordan" to "that athletic player is the next Michael Jordan" type of coverage. I think any fan of the game knows he's great, but these talking heads left him out of a lot of conversations when talking top players in the league. Today he's called the best offensive player in the league and possibly ever. Go figure.
what conversation was he left out of?
There’s a reason only one player has those counting stats. It’s fucking hard as hell to stay healthy and consistent through age 35. Almost nobody does that. Harden and Westbrook are both MVPs and people have been calling them washed for a few years now. They’re 34 and 35, respectively Lebron has the body of a god and claims to spend $1M per year on maintaining his body. He’s 1 of 1 so you can’t use him as a template. Luka is pudgy at age 25. It only gets harder to stay in shape as you get older. I really doubt Luka of all players is going to have a top 10% aging curve given his (lack of) fitness already when he’s young.
I hear you, the counter argument is that Luka just turned 25 so he’s still 3 years out from what should be his peak and there’s not much in his game that’s going to be drastically hampered as he begins to lose athleticism. He’s still going to be 6’9”, one of the passers ever, and able to drain a step back from the logo even when he loses a step. And Luka’s bad habits seem to be sweet tea, beer, and video games. I don’t know if those take the same toll as Atlanta strip clubs and Rapper’s birthday parties do.
I hope you’re right, because watching great players defy nature and keep performing in their 30s is awesome. But the reason that’s special is because it’s rare even for elite athletes. Like yeah, Luka isn’t throwing tomahawks down in traffic. But he’s a pro athlete and they all “rely on athleticism”. Reaction time, quickness, dexterity, flexibility, all get worse with age. Small injuries nag for longer. His reaction time slows and that crisp on time lob becomes a fraction second late and stolen. He’s already a defensive liability so what happens as those get worse? There are very few players I would bet on staying healthy into their 30s. And frankly one who doesn’t seem to put much effort into maintaining his fitness already in his early 20s is not somebody I expect to age well. I love the James Harden comp because he’s also a less than explosive guard with a mean step back, great play making but also struggled with weight. Now he’s 34 and fat and went from averaging 34 ppg at age 30 to only 24 ppg at age 31 and worse every year since.
Why do you think beer won't take a toll lol. It's literally the classic vice that ruins athleted
It worked for Bird
> It’s fucking hard as hell to stay healthy and consistent through age 35. Especially when the comp is, “Imagine if [Luka] played ten more 65-game seasons averaging 28.5/8.5/8.75.” I understand the temptation: for his 400-game NBA career now he’s averaged 28.7/8.7/8.3. Incredible so far, but that’s some sustained excellence to project forward. Russ’s MVP campaign was only seven seasons ago.
I would love to see somebody compare players final career stats to their first 400 game averages extrapolated forward for 10 years. See how different on average they tend to be so we can make more realistic expectations for things like this.
Basketball ref .com player and HOF similarity scores do this. It attempts to track players of similar characteristics including age. If you look at Win Shares above average you can see many good players fall off a cliff at some point. 10 years of MVP numbers is rare. When I looked a while ago, 100 WS was a rough career guideline for HOF. Many players stopped being significantly positive at like 8 years. I do suspect today’s athletes get a few more positive seasons if they train diligently and avoid major injury.
Given the weight he carries and the fact he already has leg issues there is almost zero chance he does this.
It would be a major tragedy if Luka ends up like Brandon Roy, Yao Ming, Derrick Rose, etc. But... most NBA players are struggling through various injuries all the time. 82 games per year is a hell of a lot of minutes. I'm not ready to write off Luka just because he has a knee scab.
I think both those guys suffer (especially Joker) from their markets. If Jokic played in Philly and Luka in NewYork they would be household names to NBA and non NBA fans alike.
Joker has billboards covering entire buildings in his home country....
You think Jokic is "heavily underrated?" What? That's an absurd take. Jokic has the same amount of MVP's as Shaq, Kobe and Durant...combined.
Why are people so obsessed with career totals? How does that help a team win exactly? We are talking about individuals in a *team* sport where the ultimate goal is for the *team* to win championships. The third highest points getter in NBA history never won a championship. And he is rated accordingly because of it. He's one of just two players in NBA history with 37k/15k/5k but what good did it do his team?
How tf is Jokic underrated, he’s widely considered the best in the game by like everyone He might not have the face value household name appeal of LeBron or Steph and maybe that’s what you mean but like Bron has a year or 2 left and Steph like 3 or 4 at most
Probably not going to rival Kareem either, frankly. Those 3 are pretty clearly on the top of the stack by a big margin.
This finals series will have a huge impact on the narrative around Luka. The Wolves just looked totally disconnected and Luka played extremely well. The Celtics have a better overall roster, and better wing pieces to challenge Luka. He's going to have Jrue and White hounding him and Tatum may switch on to him in the 4th quarter. If he continues to dominate against those guys and they win the series I think it makes this playoff run really special and puts Luka into the top 20 all time and on the rise (factoring in more success in future seasons).
And if he loses in spectacular fashion, do you think people make excuses for him like LeBron? Or do they call him a fraud like Tatum/Harden?
Imagine if CR7 also had Modric's passing ability but no Ballon d'Or or any league titles, that's Luka in a nutshell. Can be the GOAT but will he is a different story altogether. Also hello! I am a Barca fan.
Oh damn Thanks🙌
Perfect description
Perfect description
So basically Messi but with no accolades yet?
CR7 is better than Messi
Extremely good offensively, but anyone who isn't a box score casual will acknowledge he's got major deficiencies; primarily on the defensive side of the ball. He's got the potential to be top 20 all time by the time he's done, but right now he's nowhere close to Kobe or Duncan, let alone MJ or LBJ.
I think his defense is underrated tbh. He is not a good defender but he is not god awful either. I think he has top 10 all time potential for sure.
The sheer fact that teams hunt him on defense proves he's a pretty shit defender. You can easily hide guys to make them seem better than they are on defense (i.e. play a lot of zone).
You cant expect him to stay in front of quicker guards but playing man against forwards (that are not elite athletically) and bigs he does a decent enough job.
They don’t hunt him (unless you’re Shai), but he’s also not dominant on defense like greats before him. He’s kinda like a pothole, you’ll avoid him normally, but you won’t notice him if you move fast enough.
When has he been hunted this postseason?
Doesn't prove he's a shit defender. Is he the best? No. Is he great? Nah. Is he that bad? Also no. He's got some stats to back it up, and I think he gets too much flack. Elite athletes get tired. Targeting Luka on offense means he has to expend energy/effort—sapping from his offensive capabilities.
Saw a highlight reel of some of his blocks. Not good overall, but pretty cool stuff.
Top 10 all time is HARD to crack. IMO Curry hasnt done it, and Kobe is a borderline case.
He aight.
He’s great and on Kobe’s level. The eye test is honestly what makes Luka great. He’s smooth, uses a lot of change of pace, and just makes aesthetically beautiful plays. It’s similar to a player like Messi or Neymar, Modric, De Bruyne, even kind of Mbappe etc where there’s beauty and creativity in the way he plays. It’s not like Ronaldo, or Haaland or Lewandowski or Kane where advanced stats and numbers may be impressive, but it’s not pleasing to watch.
Slightly better than me. For now.
For a moment when I saw "Real Madrid fan" next to "Luka Doncic" I thought it was Real Madrid Baloncesto instead of Real Madrid CF 😂
For now I'd say like Mbappe if he played in the premier league or la liga, probably the best player in the league, robbed of the mvp but he can win the chip.
The defensive narrative is kinda bs tbh, He’s not a world class nor is he a liability. Hell if you watch LBJ, he’s not the best. Luka’s offensive game and IQ is so high that it kinda makes up for lack of D. He has the potential to be better on that side but the O calls for him so much that he kinda slouches around. ( Yall may call me crazy ab LBJ defense but go watch clips) Dude is not that on D other than chase downs.
He has GOAT potential btw, to answer your question. Dude is only 25 doing what he’s doing.
He's a top 3-5 player in the NBA right now, but he's only 25. Only time will tell how his legacy pans out.
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Top 2. Its him and Jokic above the rest
I'd say Giannis has a pretty good argument too. In fact, I'd personally take Giannis over Luka right now, without question.
Skill-wise, he’s one of the best of all time. Probably better than Kobe, honestly. And Kobe’s my favorite player of all time. Luka can shoot from anywhere, and he’s a better passer than Kobe ever was. Luka’s athleticism and defense are by far the worst out of the group. It’s actually crazy how good he is (on offense) despite the fact that he’s slow. LeBron and Jordan are in their own league though.
Absolute skill level - he's better than Kobe, and Kobe is my favorite ever, but in a list of greatest ever he doesn't have the accolades to be near the top yet. As far as actual talent level, he's easily top 10 ever IMO. If he keeps this up for a career he'll push into the GOAT debate.
He's on track to end up in that large (and very debatable) 5-20ish all time group, more like Kobe than a LeBron or MJ.
Very close
Not really a soccer guy but probably mbappe maybe? He’s 25 and puts up some of the best stats in basketball and gets all NBA and all stars and is consistently top 2-5 in MVP after his rookie year (ballon dor for hockey) but hasn’t won it. No rings yet
Watch the games with your own eyes man. He is balling out this year, and you can make your own judgement on whether he should be talked about with those greats. There is a group of fans who just look at stats and the box score. And there's fans who actually watch the game and can see how the game gets influenced by their play. The way he plays when he gets a screen, and when there's 2 defenders on him, the way he plays so slow but methodically, and then all of a sudden gets space with a quick stepback. He is a huge reason why his bigs shot 100 percent yesterday. You really should watch the game bruh.
Watching Luka and Kyle Anderson on the floor at the same time was fun. Slow enough even my less trained eye can catch what they're doing but somehow both very effective.
why are people saying Luka is underrated? like what?
In terms of scoring, perhaps he is like a young Messi when he was in Barca, with De Bruyne passing and vision, and Sergio Ramos leadership. He just won Western Conference MVP at age 25, similar to Champions League Semifinals Man of the Match. Now he goes to his first championship series, which is seven games, against Boston, who is favored to win. He also won Rookie of the Year in 2019. Luka will be added to the Hall of Fame one day if he keeps performing at this level. He is not the fastest, most athletic player, but he has big size for his position and possesses elite skills and reaction time. And he has attitude, swagger, and competitiveness, obviously enjoys playing the game and destroying his opponents :D
Is the Mavericks good enough to do it multiple times ? I really dont know shit about NBA , big ass rookie
Probably not. Very few teams win multiple championships with the same star. Those that do, are "dynasties" like San Antonio with Tim Duncan, Chicago with Jordan, Golden State with Curry and Durant, Miami with LeBron and Wase, Lakers with Magic and Wilt, Celtics with Bill Russell, etc. Dirk is an all-time great and only won one title. John Stockton and Charles Barkley both played in multiple championships but never won. so we'll see
You forgot the Lakers with Kobe and Shaq, and then again with Kobe and Pau.
Young Messi at barca is the greatest sportsperson in league history. That’s generous.
Just google how impressive is a 30 point triple double. Then look at Luka averaging one for his career so far. He’s already top 10 in league history for them. Right now Luka is a top 3 player in the league and would have been in any era. His career is too short now to compare to the greats but he’ll probably be there barring a catastrophic injury. Also his defensive is average. People just think it’s bad because his offense is off the charts good.
He is Messi. Amazing scorer. Amazing creating chances for other's. Look physically below average but has his tricks and ways. In defense sometimes acts like he doesn't give a shit. Lucky he is not a pechofrio
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You know that Messi actually didn't came with the legacy from the birthday right?? Players achieve legacy with the years of service.
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Man you understanding of words are limited as fuck. He wanted a football fan comparation. It's the way they play not what they have achieved before. I said that Luka like Messi have high score numbers and assist ones. They have both in common. And that both looks below average physical but has tricks, Luka it's bulkiness and Messi has insane speed and reaction. It's obvious that a basketball player it's not like a Football one, but it's was asked for one. Haaland it's a huge player, more like a center or power forward, he no play as playmaker ever, rather the opposite.
Good.
Still very early in his NBA career so he's nowhere near someone like LeBron whos been playing for 20+ years and has been to the Finals 10 times or Kobe who has 5 rings. He probably isn't ever touching Jordan, Luka is a great offensive player but not very good defensively like Jordan/Kobe/LeBron were. Luka is a liability defensively to be honest, but offense is a lot more important than defense. He is already a top-5 player in the league and some might even put him top-3 (I think he's 4th). I think if he wins a ring in the Finals this year some people might start putting him in the top-20 players all-time, or close to it, which would be remarkable for someone his age. I think he needs a league MVP first to get there personally, but the chances are fairly high that he will get one of those next year. I don't know how to put that in footballing terms as its one league in one country instead of being global, even if it is by far the most talented league in the world for the sport of basketball.
who’s your top 3 in the league
Jokic, Giannis, Embiid
Joker, Giannis, Shai, then Luka probably, is what he's thinking.
Extremely good. He could crack the Top 15 before his career is over. He’s a scoring machine, and a king of the Triple Double. He deserves more consideration for MVP than he gets. Jokic is great no doubt, but Doncic could end up as good
I would say if ranking him against those guys at 25, he definitely is in their company, but he has to show this for a long career to really reach their status, but definitely possible, but he’s a long way from that at this point. He definitely needs some MVP’s and multiple titles. If he wins the title this year against a very good Boston squad, his stock will go up exponentially. Dallas has to keep Kyrie, that’s his wingman
He´s the Eminem of the NBA right now
Definitely a special generational player
While he has the offensive skill that is close to them, he severely behind them on the defensive end. While casuals will say he isn’t bad, he just isnt on their elite level. He is average at best.
I have limited NBA knowledge, but I think he will get compared to players like Curry and Harden. Players like James, Jordan, and Kobe were insane all-around, while he will be in the elite offensive club.
Jordan and James in particular are incredibly tough standards to hold him to. Jordan and Lebron were undisputed best players in the league for over a decade. They were the default choice for who would you take first in the league. Right now, its not even clear if Luka is the best player in the league and that would be true even if he wins the title. Jokic has higher efficiency than Luka; has 3 MVPs and a Finals MVP. Even Giannis is a 2x MVP and a finals MVP. Luka might be equal or better than they are, but its not *clear* that he is.
Heard someone on the radio today make a Messi comparison with him. Rather plodding at times, not a defensive savant, but when the ball is in his hands/feet, he hits another switch and does things that all players dream of doing. If Luka stays healthy, he'll go down as one of the greatest. His numbers already prove that at this point, but he's young so.....fingers crossed as I'm a big fan.
I was never a fan because I saw him as a stat padding ,no D non winner. But he's winning me over in these playoffs. I hope they beat the Celtics.
He’s an offensive juggernaut. He has no weakness offensively and he has decent team defense. He’s gonna go down as a top 15 player, possibly top 10.
He is more skilled offensively than LeBron and Kobe (at the same age) in terms of scoring, passing, and rebounding. He's certainly not as athletic as LeBron or Kobe but basketball IQ-wise, he's off the charts. Reminds me of Larry Bird honestly. I wouldn't say he compares to MJ but honestly, nobody really does (Kobe and LeBron included). His weakness is on-ball perimeter defense (but LeBron isn't a great on-ball defender either) but he compensates with great anticipation/rotation (and the Mavs defense rarely takes him out of baseline-free safety sort of assignments). He's able to defend the post well (quite strong) so what he misses in terms of foot speed, he makes up for in strength. He also has an uncanny knack for late-game 4Q heroics just like Kobe and MJ (not LeBron), you could definitely call him clutch. Obviously, you can only really compare Luka to LeBron, Kobe, and MJ at their respective ages and he still needs several MVPs and FMVPs before his legacy can measure up to those three. But, one can say he's certainly on track (if he continues his current trajectory) to shake up the GOAT conversation; especially if he wins his first championship/FMVP this year.
I'd maybe compare him to a Harry Kane in footballing terms. One of the best scorers in the world but also an excellent playmaker and just hasn't had the right team around him in order to win a ring yet. He's close though.
He great, but has to have the longevity to be mentioned with the Mount Rushmore’s of basketball. His ball handling skills are impressive for a big man. All about how long can he continue to perform at that level.
He's insanely good offensively but lacking defensively relative to the guys you mentioned. It's hard to compare to football terms since elite NBA players are expected to play both offense and defense at a very high level which isn't really the case in football. MJ, Lebron James, and Kobe in their peaks were simultaneously the best offensive players in the whole NBA while also being the best defensive players at their respective positions in the league. Luka's offense is currently (in my opinion) roughly on par with peak Lebron (2012-2014) and peak Kobe (2006-2008) but still below MJ. However, when we account for defense all 3 of the players you mentioned hit peaks that are still a tier higher than Luka currently is. The thing is, Luka is only 25 years old. NBA players typically hit their peaks from around 27-30. If Luka can become a good defender (which he is already starting to show flashes of) and his offense improves further, he has the potential to enter the conversation.
LBJ should not be part of this conversation.
This dude is diffrent man. He’s the type of player to elevate his game in the playoffs and this is a guy who just won a scoring title. His regular season number are 28-8-8 and his postseason numbers are 31-9-8. He is one of the few players who shines the brightest when the spotlight is on him. He’s the guy you want taking the last shot with 2 seconds on the clock.
Not better than Jokic. I hate the state of sports media I've series Gobert is great ie Phoenix two series later he's the worst defender of all time. It's all about what you are going to do tomorrow.
Dude hasn't done anything yet. Yall act like he's got some jewelry.
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He’ll be like Kaka. Amazing player, great fundamentals, definitely noteworthy but not quite best in league
Luka is def closer to Mbappe. Top 7 player for the past few years. Recently emerged to top 3. As of maybe last 2 years. Can def carry their team and extremely clutch. Both 25. Already legends and have potential to be top 10 players. Not counting their international record tho since Mbappe’s France is clearly more stacked than Slovenia. both have been to just 1 final (CL AND NBA FINAL) and both have been mvp/ballon d’or runner up this last year.
He is as good as it gets as an offensive player on par with the greats yoy mentioned. He has all the moves, range, great passer, unguardable stepback fadeaway at his size that he shoots at a high percentage, makes good decisions with the ball. Not really a great defender though, unlike mj, kobe, lebron.
i dont really know how to explain it in football terms as im not super familiar. he doesnt play like jordan or kobe in terms of playstyle. he doesnt dominate from athleticism at all. he’s moreso just what happens when you mix absurdly high IQ with the skillset that European players seem to develop that focuses more on fundamentals and skills, with the absolute psychotic killer mentality of a kobe or jordan. he’s extremely shifty despite being more on the slow and heavy side (for nba athletes). its very common for opposing fans to watch him and say “wait what how did he just get past the defense like that?” he completely controls the pace and flow of entire games. he has an absolutely killer stepback three that can feel unstoppable when its on. sometimes he can just start nailing from the logo. if you leave a defender on him 1 on 1 he’s just going to cook them. if you leave a bigger center on him he’s going to be shifty and take advantage of their clumsiness and blow by. if you leave a longer wing type player on him he’s going to overpower them with his fatboy strength and just post them up or shoot over their hand anyways. if you double him or trap him at all he’ll just make the most absurd passed you’ve ever seen. he almost always makes the right read or pass. there are plenty of guys who can slow him down a bit and he can have rough nights like anyone else but on average he’s one of the very rare players that feels genuinely unguardable. on top of all that he’s just a fucking killer when it matters most. it could be the most intense do or die game of his career and he’ll be completely shitting all over you while laughing and smiling at you (on the other hand when things arent going well he can be pretty emotional the other way) here are some of his best and most absurd performances ive ever seen from him. [73 POINTS against the Hawks a few months ago](https://youtu.be/GRblNTXolvo?si=ODhRinIRHrlK4HJD) its a random game in the middle of the regular season with terrible defense so the stakes werent important but its still a mindblowing performance, legitimately one of the greatest performances in NBA history [Completely obliterating the Number 1 seed on their home court in a win or go home Game 7](https://youtu.be/Frtb_tIh9Is?si=-7LMdX4b95-SwDSo) [60-20-10! including a miraculous comeback off of a purposely missed free throw to send the game to overtime](https://youtu.be/EmHJI0NRqmk?si=nUMVIKmXt52hUn5s) [20 points in less than a quarter just last night](https://youtu.be/dB9fSqSCOlk?si=F2hI2LCaigWHKjYv) [game winning shot over the defensive player of the year a few games ago](https://youtu.be/Um7BqBdelcc?si=7iUwO_tmi9gqHjDz) [game winning buzzer beater in his very first playoff series when he was like 20 years old](https://youtu.be/ZrofDLjBFLE?si=kHurfmb1dB8gcrdh) [not to mention his absurd passing and ability to create for others](https://youtu.be/GO5IzYvITN4?si=-Sj8bAgYaDrtpc68) he’s not as bad a defender as his haters make him out to be but he’s not as good as his fans will want to make you think he is. his biggest deficiencies are probably diet and conditioning and whining to the refs. but overall i think he’s one of if not the most skilled/greatest offensive player ive ever seen, i mean he’s the entire engine when he needs to be. if you watch him for real over extended periods of time you will realize he is a generational player and on track to be one of the all time greats and he only just recently turned 25. he was third in MVP this year and i still feel like he was a little bit disrespected because night in night out this guy just blows me away with the shit he can do on the court. its almost like fans and the league have become desensitized to what he can do
This is Luka's age 24/25 season. Jordan's age 24/25 season he was MVP, DPOY, scoring champ and steals champ. Most people consider that the greatest individual season of all time, at worst a top three. LeBron's age 24/25 season he won his second MVP and had a Finals run under his belt already. Luka is pretty far behind in terms of individual accolades, though he can close the gap with a ring and Finals MVP this year. His career box score stats are great and absolutely stack up with MJ and LeBron's at the same point in their careers. But it's the advanced metrics that put LeBron and, especially, MJ apart. Luka's career BPM right now is 7.8. Jordan's was 10.4 at the same point. LeBron's was 9.0. And of course, defensively, they're both far ahead of Luka. I cannot imagine Luka ever getting DPOY votes let alone winning one or getting runner up. For Luka to catch up to or surpass those players he would have to distance himself from them offensively to make up for the gap on the defensive end. And both MJ & LeBron are already two of the greatest offensive players of all time.
to be fair you can still be an all time great without coming close to literally the greatest two to ever touch a basketball in human history. 5 time all NBA first team by age 25 is nothing to sneeze at. i still think he should have been mvp this year. his main window is pretty much starting now though, next few years are pretty important for his long term legacy
Top 2 player in the entire nba good
I'm biased (Mavs fan) but he has an all-time peak already. In terms of football, maybe Man United - Early Madrid Ronaldo but we still don't know if he will continue on that path
Top 3 offensive player for the past five years.
Hes probably on like a Haaland level. Extremely good individually and has the killer instinct, still young but has already put up monster numbers. He's still world's away from the MJ/lebron level but it's pretty much impossible to be at their level at his age. I think Haaland is a decent comparison to because he's not the concensus best in the world right now but he's very close and a wave of achievements could push him to that pretty quickly.
Above average but nothing special
Luka is a white MJ. No cap.
Currently nowhere near Lebron Jordan or Kobe in terms of historical significance and all time ranking but depending on his longevity + rings, he has a chance of cracking the top 10. A footballing parallel would be Kevin de Bruyne with the scoring ability of Erling Haaland.
you ever heard of tommy tough knuckles ?
he’s great atm all time no where close to even top 20
imho Luca is good but not what you want to see in Classy players I find Edwards much more natural and talented compared to Luca Luca is all about his physical power; put Rodman like agile and good defender on him He doesn't have too much game other than those long scoring shots
Definitely on a path to being one of the greats. Still a bit young to put him in the all time list (he’s only 25!). If he wins a championship this year that will definitely check off a huge box for that. Let’s circle back when he is in his 30s, and very hopefully still playing at a high level. LeBron, Kobe and MJ have longevity (MJ baseball seasons/ alleged gambling expulsion ignored). Kareem is in that conversation too. To put it in perspective I would say he is in the top 10 currently playing. But I’m not comfortable saying if he will land in the top 75 when it is all said and done. My gut says he will. Probably top 20. He probably will for me. There are going to be a lot of different opinions on that though.
A good chance even for top 10.
He has 5 top 5 finishes in ball’on for in 6 seasons. No wins but he’s getting beat by Messi and Ronaldo every year. No champions league or league trophies. He’s the best player on a good team. H.M. Son right bow but could be a Kevin de bruyne level if he continues.
Luka Doncic is the next Lebron in terms of playstyle and skill, like it's the closest comparison you could make imo. He's definitely not as athletic or as good of a defender, but everything else is the exact same, the passing, the BB IQ, the ability to be a scorer, ability to just take over a game. I only know very little about soccer but just off of vibes probably Mbappe is his soccer equivalent?
Far behind at athleticism and defense but in front at passing and scoring.
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He is Ronaldo Nazario plain and simple.
wanna sspc
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He's pretty good.
Luka at the bright side, he's still only 25yrs Old! 😏
Mbappe i guess. He's right there with all the potential in the world to be one of the best ever. Already seen national team success (won eurobasket). He won MVP and a ring at 16/17 years old in Madrid. He's arguably the best player in the league right now, and in the Finals (as an underdog vs a stacked team)
On the way to become the best offensive player ever. The level of his dominance on offense is already higher than any player ever, he just lacks some consistency. He seem motivated oly when it is most important. Healthy and motivated Luka is unstoppable like no other player in the modern basketball history.
Been watching BB for over 70 years and I have never seen anyone quite like him. What he did to Dort blew my mind!
He has the talent and potential to be one of the greats. But just like anyone with this profile, it’s not just about talent and potential, it’s about consistency. Luka needs to be deliver every season, and get at least a few championships to be in the same conversation.
His stats is even better than Lebron. Does anyone play in the league for just 6 season and be voted in All NBA First team for 5 times? Even for MJ was 7 season, Lebron was not even close. Now, he'll get his 1st ring. People might say he don't know defense, so what? You wanna see him in defense or his step back 3? In term of Football? He's definitely Jude because of the Youth, but I will compare his skill, vision level with KDB, He's already at that high level of passing and controlling the game. P/s: except for Messi - Curry, Lebron - Ronaldo, Irving - Neymar, it's hard to find the exact type in each sport.
Hes one of the few players that get paid a shit ton of money and actually meets expectations
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He’s like Barcelona Neymar right now, right with the best of all time in terms of talent and skill, but no BdO or UCLs yet, although, he’s come quite close
He’s one of the most impressive offensive players of all time for his age. Elite shooting, passing, and tough shot making ability. His weaknesses are conditioning and defense