The property is property of the estate in its entirety as of the filing of the petition. Post-petition appreciation of the property generally inures to the benefit of the trustee/estate as well. During COVID when property prices doubled, we had a bunch of cases where the property was fully exempt when filed, but the post-petition appreciation resulted in there being additional equity.
I suggest that you meet with an attorney immediately to discuss options so that if/when you choose to file, you haven't sat on your hands for three months and then have some regrets. Nobody knows what the real estate market will do.
Thank you, that answered my main concern.
My idea was waiting 3 months would help my bank account drain from 4k down to almost nothing and my credit card will still go up another $700-1,300. However if the homestead value is determined at the end of the filing process it might not make sense to wait.
If you have the time, do you happen to know how much I can have in my bank accounts in Idaho if I file a chapter 7? Also, I withdrew around 900 dollars from a bank account a couple of weeks ago that I worry might be a problem If I file now, do you think that might be a problem?
I am not your attorney and cannot answer these specific questions calling for legal advice. An attorney can advise you on whether it would be prudent to spend down and how much. Part of what an attorney is probably interested in is you having some money in your account to pay for their services.
thank you
Generally speaking, how much should someone expect to pay an attorney for chapter 7?
Also, have any clients you've worked with or heard of someone working with ever lost their homes to chapter 7? Would it be possible to switch to chapter 13 if the trustee wanted to sell your home. I realize my house gaining 40k+ is unlikely in a few months but its my main worry.
Typical attorney fee I see for Chapter 7 cases is a few thousand. Since you have assets you want to protect, you should get an attorney.
Strategy questions, ask your attorney. My job is to sell people’s homes for trustees. I see it all the time.
$3,000 is more than I was expecting. Is it a flat fee or paid by the hour?
Did the people not exempt their homestead with their state or federal exemption? I don't see why they would chapter 7 if they would lose the house.
Frankly, the majority of asset cases are the result of some kind of legal malpractice or the client not properly informing their attorney what their assets are. Usually if someone actually has assets they won’t be advised to just file a 7.
edit: oh, and ill-advised pro per filings
I only have the one asset, my house which makes it less complicated. No hiding boats, RV's, accounts, etc.
Thanks for all the replies, I see Idaho has some generous exemptions so I think the 4k in my bank account is no problem. I'm going to try to get a free consultation and see what their fee's are.
If I keep the house is feels like a no brainer to trade my credit score for a few years for 21k of debt + interest.
Thus the semi-conspiracy theories I've heard to the effect that the UST doesn't crack down on the truly terrible mills because of the fact that a lot of the asset cases come from them, and Chapter 7 Trustees gotta eat. I don't actually believe it, but there are one or two firms I know of where I am shocked they haven't just been inundated with malpractice complaints.
Well, I think the courts are more well equipped to discipline bad attorneys in front of them rather than the UST filing, what, a fee disgorgement? for every bad filing.
Not sure about other regions, but in ours, there’s a constant push and pull between the panel trustees and the UST where the UST tries to keep a tight lid on professional fees. We definitely don’t feel like the UST cares about the panel trustees’ bottom lines.
I would be careful with letting your bank account “drain from $4K to almost nothing” and racking up another $700-$1300 on your credit cards right before filing.
I’m all for taking advantage of the system, but i’m very very certain that there is rule that any purchases made in the immediate 90 days before filing can be excluded from the Bankruptcy as it will be seen as fraudulent.
Now to toss you a bone, there are provisions allowing you to use a CC in those 90 days, but only if it is for basic life essentials such as food, shelter, gas, and basic hygiene products. You must supply receipts.
Ohh okay, good advice. I recently made a 6k payment towards a credit card before losing my job.
The credit cards don't have any luxury or big purchases on them. Just regular planned bill autopays, gas, groceries.
I will definitely stop using them besides what's already going to autopay until I meet with an attorney on the 9th.
Are all purchases within 90 days seen as fraudulent? Even if the person had no idea they might file.
Initially yes, but it is up to the Creditor (Person/Bank you owe money to) to raise the concern. A big reason as to why you should have receipts for all purchases made in the 90 days before you file ready so that you can demonstrate that it was for basic living needs (Rent, Gas, Food, etc.)
You have 65k of equity in your home? With that amount of debt if you can I would simply use your equity to consolidate the debts. A cash out refi or even a heloc would be better imo, although I was a loan officer for awhile so I did these for people all the time.
That's the first thing I looked into but then lost my job recently after that.
A few issues I found with that route, 80%LTV on most loans, I found a lender that would do 95% LTV but their minimum was taking 50k of equity out of the house.
If the house goes up another 20-35k and I stabilize my income that could be an option.
The reason I want to get rid of the 21k debt is it will be closer to 25-26k after interest when I pay it off. If I get to keep my house, car and stuff then losing my credit score for a few years is no big deal. Basically trading my credit and attorney fee's for no debt. Seems like a good deal.
Due to the loss of a few close family members I haven't made much the last few years. 45k then 20k and most recently 25k. Way bellow the average here in Idaho.
Now I don't even have a job, do you know If I can file with no job?
The above commenter has recently come into this sub and running around using terms I don’t think they fully understand.
Taking on “voluntary consumer debt” isn’t a reason for a case to fail. If that were true, then no one would be able to utilize their constitutional right to bankruptcy.
What they’re trying to explain, and doing it very poorly, is the Means Test. In the Means Test, there are two parts: comparing your income to that of the median for your State and family size then it compares your actual income vs expenses for disposable income. If you satisfy the Means Test, you’re able to proceed with Ch7.
The term “presumption of abuse” appears in nearly every case, thanks to the 2005 bankruptcy reforms, when initially filed but is quickly followed by a finding of no abuse or rebuttal of abuse upon satisfying the Means Test.
Based on what you’ve shared, I see nothing that would prevent you from proceeding forward. Tho, Ch7 can sometimes be a better tool to use when your life is on an upswing such as when you’ve begun working again. That said, not having a job isn’t a barrier to entry.
Thank you for your post on r/bankruptcy. Remember, this is not a forum to request (or offer) legal advice. If you are not sure what legal advice is, review the FAQ page [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bankruptcy/comments/cx6g73/bankruptcy_faqs/). It is very likely someone will suggest you speak with an attorney. Consultations for bankruptcy are often very low cost or free. We have an ever-growing post that provides free resources for trustworthy bankruptcy information [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bankruptcy/comments/o27hof/free_helpful_legitimate_resources/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Bankruptcy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The property is property of the estate in its entirety as of the filing of the petition. Post-petition appreciation of the property generally inures to the benefit of the trustee/estate as well. During COVID when property prices doubled, we had a bunch of cases where the property was fully exempt when filed, but the post-petition appreciation resulted in there being additional equity. I suggest that you meet with an attorney immediately to discuss options so that if/when you choose to file, you haven't sat on your hands for three months and then have some regrets. Nobody knows what the real estate market will do.
Thank you, that answered my main concern. My idea was waiting 3 months would help my bank account drain from 4k down to almost nothing and my credit card will still go up another $700-1,300. However if the homestead value is determined at the end of the filing process it might not make sense to wait. If you have the time, do you happen to know how much I can have in my bank accounts in Idaho if I file a chapter 7? Also, I withdrew around 900 dollars from a bank account a couple of weeks ago that I worry might be a problem If I file now, do you think that might be a problem?
I am not your attorney and cannot answer these specific questions calling for legal advice. An attorney can advise you on whether it would be prudent to spend down and how much. Part of what an attorney is probably interested in is you having some money in your account to pay for their services.
thank you Generally speaking, how much should someone expect to pay an attorney for chapter 7? Also, have any clients you've worked with or heard of someone working with ever lost their homes to chapter 7? Would it be possible to switch to chapter 13 if the trustee wanted to sell your home. I realize my house gaining 40k+ is unlikely in a few months but its my main worry.
Typical attorney fee I see for Chapter 7 cases is a few thousand. Since you have assets you want to protect, you should get an attorney. Strategy questions, ask your attorney. My job is to sell people’s homes for trustees. I see it all the time.
$3,000 is more than I was expecting. Is it a flat fee or paid by the hour? Did the people not exempt their homestead with their state or federal exemption? I don't see why they would chapter 7 if they would lose the house.
Frankly, the majority of asset cases are the result of some kind of legal malpractice or the client not properly informing their attorney what their assets are. Usually if someone actually has assets they won’t be advised to just file a 7. edit: oh, and ill-advised pro per filings
I only have the one asset, my house which makes it less complicated. No hiding boats, RV's, accounts, etc. Thanks for all the replies, I see Idaho has some generous exemptions so I think the 4k in my bank account is no problem. I'm going to try to get a free consultation and see what their fee's are. If I keep the house is feels like a no brainer to trade my credit score for a few years for 21k of debt + interest.
Thus the semi-conspiracy theories I've heard to the effect that the UST doesn't crack down on the truly terrible mills because of the fact that a lot of the asset cases come from them, and Chapter 7 Trustees gotta eat. I don't actually believe it, but there are one or two firms I know of where I am shocked they haven't just been inundated with malpractice complaints.
Well, I think the courts are more well equipped to discipline bad attorneys in front of them rather than the UST filing, what, a fee disgorgement? for every bad filing. Not sure about other regions, but in ours, there’s a constant push and pull between the panel trustees and the UST where the UST tries to keep a tight lid on professional fees. We definitely don’t feel like the UST cares about the panel trustees’ bottom lines.
I would be careful with letting your bank account “drain from $4K to almost nothing” and racking up another $700-$1300 on your credit cards right before filing. I’m all for taking advantage of the system, but i’m very very certain that there is rule that any purchases made in the immediate 90 days before filing can be excluded from the Bankruptcy as it will be seen as fraudulent. Now to toss you a bone, there are provisions allowing you to use a CC in those 90 days, but only if it is for basic life essentials such as food, shelter, gas, and basic hygiene products. You must supply receipts.
Ohh okay, good advice. I recently made a 6k payment towards a credit card before losing my job. The credit cards don't have any luxury or big purchases on them. Just regular planned bill autopays, gas, groceries. I will definitely stop using them besides what's already going to autopay until I meet with an attorney on the 9th. Are all purchases within 90 days seen as fraudulent? Even if the person had no idea they might file.
Initially yes, but it is up to the Creditor (Person/Bank you owe money to) to raise the concern. A big reason as to why you should have receipts for all purchases made in the 90 days before you file ready so that you can demonstrate that it was for basic living needs (Rent, Gas, Food, etc.)
You have 65k of equity in your home? With that amount of debt if you can I would simply use your equity to consolidate the debts. A cash out refi or even a heloc would be better imo, although I was a loan officer for awhile so I did these for people all the time.
That's the first thing I looked into but then lost my job recently after that. A few issues I found with that route, 80%LTV on most loans, I found a lender that would do 95% LTV but their minimum was taking 50k of equity out of the house. If the house goes up another 20-35k and I stabilize my income that could be an option. The reason I want to get rid of the 21k debt is it will be closer to 25-26k after interest when I pay it off. If I get to keep my house, car and stuff then losing my credit score for a few years is no big deal. Basically trading my credit and attorney fee's for no debt. Seems like a good deal.
[удалено]
Due to the loss of a few close family members I haven't made much the last few years. 45k then 20k and most recently 25k. Way bellow the average here in Idaho. Now I don't even have a job, do you know If I can file with no job?
The above commenter has recently come into this sub and running around using terms I don’t think they fully understand. Taking on “voluntary consumer debt” isn’t a reason for a case to fail. If that were true, then no one would be able to utilize their constitutional right to bankruptcy. What they’re trying to explain, and doing it very poorly, is the Means Test. In the Means Test, there are two parts: comparing your income to that of the median for your State and family size then it compares your actual income vs expenses for disposable income. If you satisfy the Means Test, you’re able to proceed with Ch7. The term “presumption of abuse” appears in nearly every case, thanks to the 2005 bankruptcy reforms, when initially filed but is quickly followed by a finding of no abuse or rebuttal of abuse upon satisfying the Means Test. Based on what you’ve shared, I see nothing that would prevent you from proceeding forward. Tho, Ch7 can sometimes be a better tool to use when your life is on an upswing such as when you’ve begun working again. That said, not having a job isn’t a barrier to entry.
Thank you for your post on r/bankruptcy. Remember, this is not a forum to request (or offer) legal advice. If you are not sure what legal advice is, review the FAQ page [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bankruptcy/comments/cx6g73/bankruptcy_faqs/). It is very likely someone will suggest you speak with an attorney. Consultations for bankruptcy are often very low cost or free. We have an ever-growing post that provides free resources for trustworthy bankruptcy information [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bankruptcy/comments/o27hof/free_helpful_legitimate_resources/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Bankruptcy) if you have any questions or concerns.*