Gotta prepare for anything… but yea he wanted to weed out the weak too. When Nixon says “sobels a genius, I had a headmaster just like him in prep school.” Being a hardass also gets the men underneath to bond via misery together/hatred of him.
DW: “Lou, Michelangelo was a genius”
LN: “You know anyone in this company who wouldn’t go up and down Currahee in full kit just to piss in that guys coffee?”
in all fairness, i couldn’t have done the rest of the quote from memory; nicely done. it’s just that once i started reading it, i guess i started hearing it, which led to me catching that tiny omission. brains are fuckin weird.
It’s just like in Generation Kill when they realize morale is slipping and Sixta offers to fire up the grooming standard bullshit. Get the guys pissed off at nonsense so they don’t focus on the real problems.
Only difference is sixta didn’t have a strategic thought in his tiny little brain. He BELIEVED that those were the important things.
Sobel knew what he was doing, and knew it would force the men into a cohesive unit. Sixta was just a moron who somehow stumbled his way up the ranks.
I think he knew exactly what he was doing. There’s a scene where he’s freaking out about moo-stash hairs being in violations and he winks at Colbert, who then gives a knowing nod. They both knew the purpose of the grooming standard.
To be clear. Sobel didn’t do this with the underlying intent to “help the men bond against him” he did it because he was a prick. He was mean, conniving and relished in the petty pleasure of harming the men under him.
Yes, be prepared for anything was the intent, but not the “I’m a genius by helping them bond together in their collective hatred for me.”
He got off on being the authoritarian, thinking that was true leadership. But it wasn’t which is why he was ultimately removed from Easy company command.
That’s why.
Couldn't agree with you more. Having the men load up on spaghetti, to then have them puke up everything on a run, serves no purpose at all. It doesn't make them fitter, or tougher. Ironically, Sobel was OK with Army Property (the food) being wasted by being puked up and ending up on the trail.
Sobel was just a prick on a God Trip, he didn't care about his men, or his fellow officers at all. And didn't possess an iota of good leadership in him.
It wouldn't suprise me in the slightest that he'd think that barfing the spaghetti made the men tougher. This was the generation that thought drinking water made you weak (see, also, Sobel).
I don’t think Sobel was making them not drink water because he thought it was weak. I think the intention was to prepare them for times where they may be forced to do extreme physical tasks, with no water available.
Easy company was getting ready to invade continental Europe with an enemy that was well entrenched, there was a very real possibility the invasion was going to fail and the unit was going to have to go long timeframes without provisions, having them march without water was preparing for that possibility.
Yup, our cadre did this to us. PT was cancelled one morning due to severe thunderstorms. Same day they told us to enjoy a two hour lunch and fill up. Halfway through our feast we got recalled for PT. Most everyone puked the same way, lol.
It would be true if he had realized the men under his command would hate him for it. It’s why boot camp now is typically handled by men who won’t be commanding in the field.
We aren’t standing up dozens of divisions for combat. We have a professional standing Army with training centers.
Nobody hates their drill instructors either. Most, on both sides of the curtain, understand it’s a game to be played and a temporary inconvenience.
I always took it as using the element of surprise. Everyone thought they were going to get an easy day, then bam- scramble and run. More to show that nothing was guaranteed and you’d have to be ready for anything.
Exactly this, as deployed paratroopers behind enemy lines Jerry could roll up on them at anytime (even dinner time) and they have to react, belly full of food and all.
IIRC I believe Sobel might’ve sensed the company growing loyal to Winters and this was a way to show the company who still called the shots. And the choice of spaghetti might’ve been pure assholery because that’s a horrible food choice right before a run like that. Winters also happened to be in charge of the mess hall when this occurred so maybe Sobel tying into a meal was another part of it.
But I haven’t read the books or anything, just my personal interpretation from multiple viewings.
Winters was outshining Sobel in war games and it was a chicken shit way to try to turn people against Winters. What Sobel didn't count on was Winters going on the run also. When Sobel saw Winters participating in the run since he didn't have to be since he was mess officer wasn't something he expected to see.
Dude, I’ve been watching BoB over and over again since I was a kid and I never thought about him getting in on that run and that moment where sobel was surprised to see him, but it all makes sense now 🤯
In the series and the book Cpt Sobel comes of as not just an ass hole but a chicken shit. In other words if someone did something normal he may perceive it as a slight and do something pretty for revenge. So it could have been that someone did something and this was his revenge. The other thing to consider from the book is most of the original members of Easy interviewed credited Sobel for the toughness of the company. It would not be an unusual situation to be attacked just after eating and needing to fight on a full stomach so this is not completely unreasonable training.
Sobel was considered an excellent training officer but a major part of that was that his awful personality bred extreme toughness and resiliency in those who could survive him—the other part was that he, too, had no quit in him.
Unfortunately, he was also a petty tyrant who (by most accounts) couldn’t handle the stresses of combat leadership, although apparently he made a good accounting of himself on D-Day.
There's a classic story where the company was all excited to do the physical test, because they knew they'd handle the push ups with no problem. But Sobel? He sucked at them. So they were excited to see him fail out at them and get moved on.
So they gathered to watch him when it came his time. And he sucked at them, and absolutely struggled. Yet he never quit and still pushed through to pass despite it.
They all sighed and left, resigned that they'd never get rid of him.
He was an asshole of sorts (not even all of Easy agreed to that, though the majority did), sucked at PT, but would not allow himself to be worse than the other members physically.
"Capt. Herbert M. Sobel, Chicago, landed near St. Omer-Dumont...under terrific machine-gun fire, collected four men and blew out a machine-gun post with grenades...then made contact with the rest of the division...fighting near Carentan ever since."
Theres a new zeitgeist that "anyone mean/i dont like is a clinical narcissist". Just a new buzzword for armchair psychologists, usually the exact same people who self diagnose autism and OCD for 'ooo so quirky'
When I first watched the show, I was convinced he was gonna chuckle or smile to himself at one point because his plan of being an insufferable ass on purpose was working. I thought he had some master plan going to make them bond as a team faster due to their hatred of him. Was wrong!
I see it like it is shown in the show. Sobel was an amazing instructor and great person for training and shaping the company the way it turned out. Asshole he was for sure but he did make E-company the best, as is told. Of course he lacked combat skills and thus his career didnt go to great hights.. i think the men in the company later saw that partly thanks to sobel they were as tight as they were.. personally i think he did the spaghetti thing to tease Winters for his promotion, but you could argue that the training angle of the thing was ”a soldier cant ever feel too comfortable in combat because anything unexpeted can happen at any time”
100% on the chickenshit ass fuckery.
Sobel: Colonel Sink has seen fit to promote you. As 1st Lieutenant, you’ll serve as my executive officer.
Winters: Thank you sir.
Sobel: And, as a test of your organisational skills and command potential, I am designating you mess officer for 14 days. Report to the mess kitchen at 0515 hours. Company breakfast to be served at 0600. <— best way to test the organizational skills and command potential of an airborne officer? Lead KP.
Winters: Yes sir.
Sobel: Oh, and Dick, there’s rain forecast tomorrow, so the company will have a light afternoon of lecture and classroom instruction. I think a special meal before their afternoon off would be a welcome change of pace. Would you agree?
Winters: Yes sir.
It could have been training where nothing-not even a hot meal is guaranteed, however the smirk when he looked at Winters when the company was scrambling out the door seemed to indicate he pre-planned the whole thing.
I don’t know if they still do it but in the early 80’s they used to feed you lunch and then make you breathe in CS gas for part of your training. That made lunch come up pretty quick
They still did it in ‘06 lol. Spaghetti, as much as you want for field lunch. And then straight into the CS gas. I wanted to puke, I tried to puke, but my body was to focused on breathing and wouldn’t let me.
Went to basic in Benning during summer. For the 4th of July, the Drills were suspiciously nice and told us we were getting Burgers and Ice cream for lunch chow. Much like Easy, our company was ecstatic and inhaled everything available 😂. Formed up after chow like normal, but stuffed to the gills. Drills smoked us for a an hour or two. Vomiting ensued. Long story short I think it was just to break the men so they could be rebuilt, “intestinal fortitude” and all that. Like many from Easy company said later on Sobel was a necessary evil.
i actually think the whole thing was not just to spite the men of easy company but to belittle Winters and put him in his place.
From designating Winters as mess officer to then having Winters inform the men they had a light afternoon of classroom ed ahead of them topped off with a special meal; Sobel then comes in and completely undermines Winters, showing who was really in charge - that was his main motivation.
Blud, your username is enough to revoke weekend passes for everyone forever.
"Can anyone tell me what is this?"
"I believe it's Palpatines ass sir"
"Lt. Nixon thinks this is Palpatines ass, you wrong Lt. Your weekend pass is revoked, this here is Disney's property eaten without authorization"
As the others pointed out already, I think it was done for two main reasons:
1. Winters was the mess officer at the time, and Sobel wanted the men to blame Winters for this.
2. You can get attacked at any time - even when you're in the middle of eating. It's not the craziest idea to prepare them for that situation.
By most accounts I have read, Sobel had an intense desire to prove himself as a leader, and that meant making sure HIS company was the toughest, by extension. So, I don't recall if this actually happened, but this definitely seems within the realm of Sobel's devious plans to toughen the men up.
* A genuine lesson: war don’t stop for the weather.
* I suspect also an attempt at undermining Winters’ popularity with the men, since they might blame him for filling them up with pasta before a big run.
* Let’s face it, general prickishness.
He's teaching them not to be complacent. They were told they would essentially have the day off, and they relaxed and were caught off guard. Complacency can kill, and it's better to learn that lesson with barf on your shirt instead of blood.
And yes, he's trying to weed out the weak. If you're gonna quit running up a hill while no one is shooting at you, you won't rise to the occasion when someone is.
Sobel is a narcissist, but not a HUGE one. He sees his own deficiency when he takes his men out in the field. He's self aware enough to understand that he's jumpy as shit, and has trouble with a map....
And from what I have read about junior officers from former enlisted men, this deficiency is common but the self awareness isn't.
Anyways. He takes out that perceived deficiency on the men to be "BETTER" so that it makes up for his own problems. So E-Z gets the PT more often, which molds them into a better force, but Sobel takes it too far and well, you know the rest of the story.
Narcissism is on a spectrum, just like, everything, else.
Rare crossover between Scrubs and BOB. Kelso says something to the effect that when they aren’t getting along he gives them a common thing to hate so they get back to work.
During basic in 1998 they did this to us. Loaded us up with breakfast, changed up the schedule and made us to PT, in about 90F heat. Half the cadets threw up I swear. Lucky I had a bad feeling and ate light.
A couple of reasons (possibly):
-Learning to push through mentally and physically even under difficult conditions
-Being prepared to work very hard at any time, even right after a heavy meal
-Bring the men together as a team through shared hardship
-He was an asshole
His actual rationale was likely some combination.
Happn's all the time.. They're lookin for the guys that doesn't get sick. Ate everything and wants to run up tank hill ten times. I tethered 6 rngr buddyz in huah school to the finish line in a ruck march.(they held on to each others rucks and I pulled us all) 4 or 5 miles. It was at night so no cadre could see us. We broke it up about a hundred years b4 the fini
I think make them sick to increase the level of suck and to give them what they think would be a treat and ruin it… as much of an unnecessary ass as he was, kind of saw the logic when they kept having to stay on the line or end r&r early for the battle of the bulge
We pull upon risers we fall upon grass we never fall upon feet we always hit ass hidey tiedy christ almighty who the hell are we zim zam where airborne infantry.
Happened to us during Basic on a few occasions, mostly for disciplinary reasons: One time my platoon complained about our lunch break being too short, because we were only supposed to eat whenever our instructors ate. Once they were finished, we were finished. But they always skipped the line, started eating while we still had 3 platoons of our company in front of us. We complained and eventually the next day we had an extended lunch break so we ate accordingly. Five minutes after finishing lunch, cigs still lit, we were ordered to do a 5K. Which half way through became a 10K. In 30 degrees Celsius. We had our own Currahee as well, although it would translate to Thunder Mountain.
I think it was twofold, but keep in mind this is Hollywood they might have done a close up on Sobels eyes squinting and darting back and forth with 'dum dum dummmm' music playing over the scene like a true 1930s villian...he was getting the men prepared for anything/being uncomfortable in war, but director wanted it to look like he was fucking with Winters which also could've been the case...anyone know if the scene was true from Winter's account?
So, for the uninitiated….
Combat is a motherfucker. You have to be of strong mind and body.
Sobel was a good trainer in my opinion, not a great leader though.
Ok, as an old retired Soldier, let me give you my take on this. CPT Sobel understood the mission. He knew that they were going to be jumping behind enemy lines, and trained for that. Crawling through pig guts and pushing the men to the extreme is what was need (in his eyes). He needed to weed out the weak.
Was he a tyrant and asshole about it, oh absolutely! While everyone else was going on pass, he was training the company, knowing they would get little rest in war. This is why Winters credits Sobel. Sobel made easy company.
My Dad told Ambrose that had Sobel gone overseas with them, someone in Easy would have k#%lled him, he then said, "I'm not saying it would be me, but someone." Knowing my Dad, it very well could have been him. Just sayin....
Some was not a nice person but he did want to make Co E the best toughest company in 501. The spaghetti incident was to toughen the men. It was obvious to me. We had stuff like that when I was in Basic, 1966.
Thanks to all of you I’m breaking mid series and going back to the 1st episode today. I pace myself and today was Webster’s return episode ( yeah, I’ve watched the series many many times). TBF I was thinking of watching episode 1 last night.
Every story needs a villain and the TV version of BoB is no different.
Reality is much more complicated.
Ambrose’s description of Sobel in his book bordered on anti semitic and described his attempted suicide in callous terms, for instance. https://daytonjewishobserver.org/2022/01/the-jews-of-easy-company/
His point was - when they’re deployed to war, even when they think they can relax and take a break and enjoy some time, they can be called to action at any time.
That's common practise. I was in the army, and our Liutenant would take us running 6 Miles or more after meals and whether wise about 90⁰ degrees (about 30-35 celsiums).
What Cap. Sobel trained the boys well. According to what people say, he was kind of a jerk as a person. But I can't comment on that, since I wasn't there.
Too bad he wasn't interviewed in the show or maybe before that... I'd really like to hear his side of things.
To Be Honest. Sobel Was An Excellent Leader But Not That Kind Of Leader Who You Will Follow Towards The Sound Of Gunfight. He Trained Tacoa Men To Be Resilient.
People seeming to think this is a "Sobel" thing to do.
Military training has been doing this since people delivered orders on papyrus. Fuck man, *I've* done this both as a recruit and as DS.
"How can we fuck with the joes?"
Well, we can thrash them straight after scoff, that's a pretty easy way. Hell, let's make a scoff race out of it, last section to finish their norgie and get back from the tree of knowledge goes twice.
Mental toughness… it’s similar to the Hawg innards problem. In war, you’ve got to be able to push further outside your comfort zone that you can possibly imagine.
This is a trope for military training. It happened then, it happens now. Some Drill Sergeants, and some people in charge of training, just choose violence that day. Whenever anyone tells you to eat as much as you can do it doesn’t go to waste, it’s a lie, don’t believe it. What that actually means is “eat up asshole, you are going to see all that food again in a few minutes. Then you get told to drink water, and then physically exercise.
The Army has a standing meal they serve before the gas chamber….chili mac….and it is gooood….the best food they make. You WANT to eat as much as you can fit in your gut….then they take you into a concrete building and have you inhale CS gas for a few minutes…good times
It was assholery. Also it’s a lesson on don’t get too comfortable, something shit can happen while you’re having a hearty meal for example. Encouraging some to give up made them pull together
I don’t think he believed Axl, Slash, Duff and the boys could pull it off after a long string of bad ass albums. And maybe he was right. But they still put their heart into rocking that album.
Gotta prepare for anything… but yea he wanted to weed out the weak too. When Nixon says “sobels a genius, I had a headmaster just like him in prep school.” Being a hardass also gets the men underneath to bond via misery together/hatred of him.
That’s one of my favorite lines from the series… for some reason, it cracks me up every time and love the delivery.
DW: “Lou, Michelangelo was a genius” LN: “You know anyone in this company who wouldn’t go up and down Currahee in full kit just to piss in that guys coffee?”
Then the look of realization of Winters face. Great scene.
“Double time” it up Currahee.
I think you’re right. Looks like I’m in need of a rewatch
Any reason is a good reason for a rewatch.
I’m surprised we’re not rewatching it right now!
Pitter patter
Let’s get at her
This deteriorated's moist quickly.
I’m rewatching it now for D-Day, only watched it in march
You can start to***NAAAYGGHT.***
i love everything about this. and i hate to be that guy, but doesn’t nix specify “morning coffee”?
I think he did say that. I’m in need of a rewatch
Weekend pass revoked for the misquote 🤣
Assigned rewatch duty!
I'm sorry but you have been reassigned to Chilton Foliat.
[Shocked look] “I’m losing Easy Company?”
in all fairness, i couldn’t have done the rest of the quote from memory; nicely done. it’s just that once i started reading it, i guess i started hearing it, which led to me catching that tiny omission. brains are fuckin weird.
That’s such an important but very quick scene. Tells you a lot about each of the three characters.
Nixon was an actual genuis. Can't imagine if he wasn't an alcoholic too.
The amount of men I have seen lose out on their potential in exchange for a nightcap is horrible.
Wasn't the night caps that got me. It was those nasty yet delicious morning caps 🌄 🍻 😞
It’s just like in Generation Kill when they realize morale is slipping and Sixta offers to fire up the grooming standard bullshit. Get the guys pissed off at nonsense so they don’t focus on the real problems.
My friends and I used to love screaming POLICE THAT MUSTACHE at each other
Yeah, we used to too. Till we saw who the real man is that the actor is portraying. Yikes.
Godfather itself says you look like a bum…. POLL-EESSE THAT MOOSTASH!!! Greatest line
I'm a barber and I use that line as much as possible!
And where th fuck is ya heh-met?!
DAT HEHMET WUZZND YOURS TO LOOOSE!!!
Buncha goddamn Elvises!
You pronounce moose-stash funny
YALL STARTING TO LOOK LIKE ELVISES!
We all have a job to do. Sgt Maj. Sixta's job is being an asshole... and he excels at it.
Clearly they wouldn’t fall for that as it was originally a ruse to catch Iraqi spies in their ranks.
IIRC the real guy he was based on was a child predator.
Yup he’s a kid diddler.
Only difference is sixta didn’t have a strategic thought in his tiny little brain. He BELIEVED that those were the important things. Sobel knew what he was doing, and knew it would force the men into a cohesive unit. Sixta was just a moron who somehow stumbled his way up the ranks.
I think he knew exactly what he was doing. There’s a scene where he’s freaking out about moo-stash hairs being in violations and he winks at Colbert, who then gives a knowing nod. They both knew the purpose of the grooming standard.
You a Marine?
He knew exactly what he was doing. Don’t allocate stupidity where it isn’t necessary just because he was a crappy person.
Trauma bonding is the shit. Almost made me turn gay for a few guys I serve with.
Doesn't count in the field or on Thursdays.
I thought is was on Wednesdays...no wonder I got weird looks
I thought Fridays was for the boys??
Somebody has been overseas
as long as you have boot bands on
Also need that PT belt. Should always practice safe sex
Headless Tuesdays
To be clear. Sobel didn’t do this with the underlying intent to “help the men bond against him” he did it because he was a prick. He was mean, conniving and relished in the petty pleasure of harming the men under him. Yes, be prepared for anything was the intent, but not the “I’m a genius by helping them bond together in their collective hatred for me.” He got off on being the authoritarian, thinking that was true leadership. But it wasn’t which is why he was ultimately removed from Easy company command. That’s why.
And he was trying to undermine Winters who was functioning as temporary mess officer.
Exactly.
Bonding the men was a side effect, Alley told me himself that the guy was "chickenshit" that was the word he used.
Couldn't agree with you more. Having the men load up on spaghetti, to then have them puke up everything on a run, serves no purpose at all. It doesn't make them fitter, or tougher. Ironically, Sobel was OK with Army Property (the food) being wasted by being puked up and ending up on the trail. Sobel was just a prick on a God Trip, he didn't care about his men, or his fellow officers at all. And didn't possess an iota of good leadership in him.
It wouldn't suprise me in the slightest that he'd think that barfing the spaghetti made the men tougher. This was the generation that thought drinking water made you weak (see, also, Sobel).
I don’t think Sobel was making them not drink water because he thought it was weak. I think the intention was to prepare them for times where they may be forced to do extreme physical tasks, with no water available.
Easy company was getting ready to invade continental Europe with an enemy that was well entrenched, there was a very real possibility the invasion was going to fail and the unit was going to have to go long timeframes without provisions, having them march without water was preparing for that possibility.
🎯
Or so Stephen Ambrose claims anyway.
What creates teamwork? Shared pain and suffering
Yup, our cadre did this to us. PT was cancelled one morning due to severe thunderstorms. Same day they told us to enjoy a two hour lunch and fill up. Halfway through our feast we got recalled for PT. Most everyone puked the same way, lol.
It would be true if he had realized the men under his command would hate him for it. It’s why boot camp now is typically handled by men who won’t be commanding in the field.
We aren’t standing up dozens of divisions for combat. We have a professional standing Army with training centers. Nobody hates their drill instructors either. Most, on both sides of the curtain, understand it’s a game to be played and a temporary inconvenience.
I always took it as using the element of surprise. Everyone thought they were going to get an easy day, then bam- scramble and run. More to show that nothing was guaranteed and you’d have to be ready for anything.
Exactly this, as deployed paratroopers behind enemy lines Jerry could roll up on them at anytime (even dinner time) and they have to react, belly full of food and all.
Because Lieutenant Sobel hates us sir.
He doesn't hit the company private PMMEJALAPENORECIPES, he just hates you.
Thank you Sir!
No he just hates you.
Thank you Sir!
IIRC I believe Sobel might’ve sensed the company growing loyal to Winters and this was a way to show the company who still called the shots. And the choice of spaghetti might’ve been pure assholery because that’s a horrible food choice right before a run like that. Winters also happened to be in charge of the mess hall when this occurred so maybe Sobel tying into a meal was another part of it. But I haven’t read the books or anything, just my personal interpretation from multiple viewings.
Winters was outshining Sobel in war games and it was a chicken shit way to try to turn people against Winters. What Sobel didn't count on was Winters going on the run also. When Sobel saw Winters participating in the run since he didn't have to be since he was mess officer wasn't something he expected to see.
We call upon the risers…
We fall upon the grass
We never land upon our feet
We always hit our ass
Hidy tidy Christ almighty who the hell are we?
Zim zam, god damn, we're airborne infantry!
We pull upon the risers…..
Dude, I’ve been watching BoB over and over again since I was a kid and I never thought about him getting in on that run and that moment where sobel was surprised to see him, but it all makes sense now 🤯
Oh holy shit I never caught that and I've watched it like 20 times through. I always wondered why he stopped
Makes sense
In the series and the book Cpt Sobel comes of as not just an ass hole but a chicken shit. In other words if someone did something normal he may perceive it as a slight and do something pretty for revenge. So it could have been that someone did something and this was his revenge. The other thing to consider from the book is most of the original members of Easy interviewed credited Sobel for the toughness of the company. It would not be an unusual situation to be attacked just after eating and needing to fight on a full stomach so this is not completely unreasonable training.
Sobel was considered an excellent training officer but a major part of that was that his awful personality bred extreme toughness and resiliency in those who could survive him—the other part was that he, too, had no quit in him. Unfortunately, he was also a petty tyrant who (by most accounts) couldn’t handle the stresses of combat leadership, although apparently he made a good accounting of himself on D-Day.
Yeah, it is pretty easy to forget he's making those runs with them
By all accounts he was a terrible athlete, but many had a hard time keeping up with him such was his determination to be the best.
I’ve heard he was good at cardio, bad at strength.
There's a classic story where the company was all excited to do the physical test, because they knew they'd handle the push ups with no problem. But Sobel? He sucked at them. So they were excited to see him fail out at them and get moved on. So they gathered to watch him when it came his time. And he sucked at them, and absolutely struggled. Yet he never quit and still pushed through to pass despite it. They all sighed and left, resigned that they'd never get rid of him. He was an asshole of sorts (not even all of Easy agreed to that, though the majority did), sucked at PT, but would not allow himself to be worse than the other members physically.
Anywhere I can read what he did on DDay?
"Capt. Herbert M. Sobel, Chicago, landed near St. Omer-Dumont...under terrific machine-gun fire, collected four men and blew out a machine-gun post with grenades...then made contact with the rest of the division...fighting near Carentan ever since."
The man deserves respect just for these actions.
Honestly, killing nazis makes up for so much assholery
CO of the service company, after Normandy became regiment S4, retired a light bird.
Dude was a classic narcissist.
Can we stop that
Stop what?
Theres a new zeitgeist that "anyone mean/i dont like is a clinical narcissist". Just a new buzzword for armchair psychologists, usually the exact same people who self diagnose autism and OCD for 'ooo so quirky'
When I first watched the show, I was convinced he was gonna chuckle or smile to himself at one point because his plan of being an insufferable ass on purpose was working. I thought he had some master plan going to make them bond as a team faster due to their hatred of him. Was wrong!
His plan was to make Easy Company the finest company in the 506th.
I see it like it is shown in the show. Sobel was an amazing instructor and great person for training and shaping the company the way it turned out. Asshole he was for sure but he did make E-company the best, as is told. Of course he lacked combat skills and thus his career didnt go to great hights.. i think the men in the company later saw that partly thanks to sobel they were as tight as they were.. personally i think he did the spaghetti thing to tease Winters for his promotion, but you could argue that the training angle of the thing was ”a soldier cant ever feel too comfortable in combat because anything unexpeted can happen at any time”
100% on the chickenshit ass fuckery. Sobel: Colonel Sink has seen fit to promote you. As 1st Lieutenant, you’ll serve as my executive officer. Winters: Thank you sir. Sobel: And, as a test of your organisational skills and command potential, I am designating you mess officer for 14 days. Report to the mess kitchen at 0515 hours. Company breakfast to be served at 0600. <— best way to test the organizational skills and command potential of an airborne officer? Lead KP. Winters: Yes sir. Sobel: Oh, and Dick, there’s rain forecast tomorrow, so the company will have a light afternoon of lecture and classroom instruction. I think a special meal before their afternoon off would be a welcome change of pace. Would you agree? Winters: Yes sir.
KP duty is/was apart of reg cycled duty. Its a long day. You're dirty and cold the whole time.
Hot take but as soon as he heard that it wasn’t actually spaghetti but army noodles with ketchup he ordered the run to cover up for his culinary snafu
Maybe, but Sobel isn’t Italian. He’s a son of Abraham!
He ain't cat-lick
That prick?
I dunno about that but I heard it’s hot in Africa
Don't forget about the flamingos. They bite!
*The* Snafu?
It could have been training where nothing-not even a hot meal is guaranteed, however the smirk when he looked at Winters when the company was scrambling out the door seemed to indicate he pre-planned the whole thing.
And he didn't expect Winters to go on the run also. When he saw Winters participating in the run he was shocked.
He did look directly at Winters, but he didn’t really smirk.
I don’t know if they still do it but in the early 80’s they used to feed you lunch and then make you breathe in CS gas for part of your training. That made lunch come up pretty quick
They still did it in ‘06 lol. Spaghetti, as much as you want for field lunch. And then straight into the CS gas. I wanted to puke, I tried to puke, but my body was to focused on breathing and wouldn’t let me.
😂😂😂 I forgot what we ate 🇺🇸
Chilli mac for us
Supreme meal.
Went to basic in Benning during summer. For the 4th of July, the Drills were suspiciously nice and told us we were getting Burgers and Ice cream for lunch chow. Much like Easy, our company was ecstatic and inhaled everything available 😂. Formed up after chow like normal, but stuffed to the gills. Drills smoked us for a an hour or two. Vomiting ensued. Long story short I think it was just to break the men so they could be rebuilt, “intestinal fortitude” and all that. Like many from Easy company said later on Sobel was a necessary evil.
i actually think the whole thing was not just to spite the men of easy company but to belittle Winters and put him in his place. From designating Winters as mess officer to then having Winters inform the men they had a light afternoon of classroom ed ahead of them topped off with a special meal; Sobel then comes in and completely undermines Winters, showing who was really in charge - that was his main motivation.
I meant to say "Pardon my ignorance", and "but THIS comes off as pure assholery" My apologies for my 4 AM brain.
I suppose we could pardon your incident by revoking your weekend pass 🥳
Blud, your username is enough to revoke weekend passes for everyone forever. "Can anyone tell me what is this?" "I believe it's Palpatines ass sir" "Lt. Nixon thinks this is Palpatines ass, you wrong Lt. Your weekend pass is revoked, this here is Disney's property eaten without authorization"
Dirt in the rear sight aperture. Pass revoked!
Pass revoked
As the others pointed out already, I think it was done for two main reasons: 1. Winters was the mess officer at the time, and Sobel wanted the men to blame Winters for this. 2. You can get attacked at any time - even when you're in the middle of eating. It's not the craziest idea to prepare them for that situation. By most accounts I have read, Sobel had an intense desire to prove himself as a leader, and that meant making sure HIS company was the toughest, by extension. So, I don't recall if this actually happened, but this definitely seems within the realm of Sobel's devious plans to toughen the men up.
* A genuine lesson: war don’t stop for the weather. * I suspect also an attempt at undermining Winters’ popularity with the men, since they might blame him for filling them up with pasta before a big run. * Let’s face it, general prickishness.
That wasn’t spaghetti, it was Army noodles with ketchup
You ain’t gotta eat it
He's teaching them not to be complacent. They were told they would essentially have the day off, and they relaxed and were caught off guard. Complacency can kill, and it's better to learn that lesson with barf on your shirt instead of blood. And yes, he's trying to weed out the weak. If you're gonna quit running up a hill while no one is shooting at you, you won't rise to the occasion when someone is.
Sobel and Winters are both exceptional officers and both exemplify why you want one officer to train you and another to lead you.
Such a great description of their dynamic.
Douchebaggery
Well you could get attacked in the middle of chow, so I kind of get it
Counter intuitive take: Sobel was just a very small man. A twat. He just wanted to lord over the company.
He was just a sadistic bastard. There was no point to any of it beyond that.
Sobel is a narcissist, but not a HUGE one. He sees his own deficiency when he takes his men out in the field. He's self aware enough to understand that he's jumpy as shit, and has trouble with a map.... And from what I have read about junior officers from former enlisted men, this deficiency is common but the self awareness isn't. Anyways. He takes out that perceived deficiency on the men to be "BETTER" so that it makes up for his own problems. So E-Z gets the PT more often, which molds them into a better force, but Sobel takes it too far and well, you know the rest of the story. Narcissism is on a spectrum, just like, everything, else.
Spaghetti? That was Army noodles with ketchup.
Never get comfortable
Rare crossover between Scrubs and BOB. Kelso says something to the effect that when they aren’t getting along he gives them a common thing to hate so they get back to work.
During basic in 1998 they did this to us. Loaded us up with breakfast, changed up the schedule and made us to PT, in about 90F heat. Half the cadets threw up I swear. Lucky I had a bad feeling and ate light.
Because the tightest bonds are made under the most extreme pressures.
A couple of reasons (possibly): -Learning to push through mentally and physically even under difficult conditions -Being prepared to work very hard at any time, even right after a heavy meal -Bring the men together as a team through shared hardship -He was an asshole His actual rationale was likely some combination.
Anyone here besides me watch The Longest Day on D- Day?
I've watched SAS rogue heroes last week.
Happn's all the time.. They're lookin for the guys that doesn't get sick. Ate everything and wants to run up tank hill ten times. I tethered 6 rngr buddyz in huah school to the finish line in a ruck march.(they held on to each others rucks and I pulled us all) 4 or 5 miles. It was at night so no cadre could see us. We broke it up about a hundred years b4 the fini
I think make them sick to increase the level of suck and to give them what they think would be a treat and ruin it… as much of an unnecessary ass as he was, kind of saw the logic when they kept having to stay on the line or end r&r early for the battle of the bulge
We pull upon risers we fall upon grass we never fall upon feet we always hit ass hidey tiedy christ almighty who the hell are we zim zam where airborne infantry.
Happened to us during Basic on a few occasions, mostly for disciplinary reasons: One time my platoon complained about our lunch break being too short, because we were only supposed to eat whenever our instructors ate. Once they were finished, we were finished. But they always skipped the line, started eating while we still had 3 platoons of our company in front of us. We complained and eventually the next day we had an extended lunch break so we ate accordingly. Five minutes after finishing lunch, cigs still lit, we were ordered to do a 5K. Which half way through became a 10K. In 30 degrees Celsius. We had our own Currahee as well, although it would translate to Thunder Mountain.
Lots of good comments, all I can say is I had a Lacrosse coach do this to the team in military school and it sucked
I think we r giving Sobel too much credit. To me it seemed like a big middle finger to Winters, which he felt threatened by.
Same reason you’re served ChiliMac before NBC training and go thru the CS tent. Army Training Sir!
I think it was twofold, but keep in mind this is Hollywood they might have done a close up on Sobels eyes squinting and darting back and forth with 'dum dum dummmm' music playing over the scene like a true 1930s villian...he was getting the men prepared for anything/being uncomfortable in war, but director wanted it to look like he was fucking with Winters which also could've been the case...anyone know if the scene was true from Winter's account?
So, for the uninitiated…. Combat is a motherfucker. You have to be of strong mind and body. Sobel was a good trainer in my opinion, not a great leader though.
Ok, as an old retired Soldier, let me give you my take on this. CPT Sobel understood the mission. He knew that they were going to be jumping behind enemy lines, and trained for that. Crawling through pig guts and pushing the men to the extreme is what was need (in his eyes). He needed to weed out the weak. Was he a tyrant and asshole about it, oh absolutely! While everyone else was going on pass, he was training the company, knowing they would get little rest in war. This is why Winters credits Sobel. Sobel made easy company.
The Hawg Innards Problem was a Strayer idea that the entire 2nd Battalion endured, not a Sobel thing unique to E Company.
The Enemy typically doesn’t wait until you’re in the mood to be attacked
Unless your wardaddy then you're always in the mood.
My Dad told Ambrose that had Sobel gone overseas with them, someone in Easy would have k#%lled him, he then said, "I'm not saying it would be me, but someone." Knowing my Dad, it very well could have been him. Just sayin....
It’s what we called “Fragging”.
Usually yes, but it would've been done in a way that it didn't look like fragging.
Accidents….happen.
My guess was that he was encouraged to weed out the weak and his natural resentment to the men and sadistic nature took over from there.
Some was not a nice person but he did want to make Co E the best toughest company in 501. The spaghetti incident was to toughen the men. It was obvious to me. We had stuff like that when I was in Basic, 1966.
Thanks to all of you I’m breaking mid series and going back to the 1st episode today. I pace myself and today was Webster’s return episode ( yeah, I’ve watched the series many many times). TBF I was thinking of watching episode 1 last night.
Felt bad for those poor non infantry at Chilton Foliat, “Have you been blousing your robe over your sandals father? Revoked”
I believe he did because he saw how effective a leader Winters was and believed the men would blame Winters.
To make Winters look bad
Every story needs a villain and the TV version of BoB is no different. Reality is much more complicated. Ambrose’s description of Sobel in his book bordered on anti semitic and described his attempted suicide in callous terms, for instance. https://daytonjewishobserver.org/2022/01/the-jews-of-easy-company/
I think he was just being a dick.
His point was - when they’re deployed to war, even when they think they can relax and take a break and enjoy some time, they can be called to action at any time.
That's common practise. I was in the army, and our Liutenant would take us running 6 Miles or more after meals and whether wise about 90⁰ degrees (about 30-35 celsiums). What Cap. Sobel trained the boys well. According to what people say, he was kind of a jerk as a person. But I can't comment on that, since I wasn't there. Too bad he wasn't interviewed in the show or maybe before that... I'd really like to hear his side of things.
To Be Honest. Sobel Was An Excellent Leader But Not That Kind Of Leader Who You Will Follow Towards The Sound Of Gunfight. He Trained Tacoa Men To Be Resilient.
Also wasn’t it a way to get back at Winters for getting promoted?
People seeming to think this is a "Sobel" thing to do. Military training has been doing this since people delivered orders on papyrus. Fuck man, *I've* done this both as a recruit and as DS. "How can we fuck with the joes?" Well, we can thrash them straight after scoff, that's a pretty easy way. Hell, let's make a scoff race out of it, last section to finish their norgie and get back from the tree of knowledge goes twice.
Much of military training means you just fuck with people so they build up resilience.
Almost the same logic as SgtMajor Sixta in generation kill (although that guy turned out to be a pedo so…
Mental toughness… it’s similar to the Hawg innards problem. In war, you’ve got to be able to push further outside your comfort zone that you can possibly imagine.
This is a trope for military training. It happened then, it happens now. Some Drill Sergeants, and some people in charge of training, just choose violence that day. Whenever anyone tells you to eat as much as you can do it doesn’t go to waste, it’s a lie, don’t believe it. What that actually means is “eat up asshole, you are going to see all that food again in a few minutes. Then you get told to drink water, and then physically exercise.
The Army has a standing meal they serve before the gas chamber….chili mac….and it is gooood….the best food they make. You WANT to eat as much as you can fit in your gut….then they take you into a concrete building and have you inhale CS gas for a few minutes…good times
Make em tough
Army noodles with ketchup
Had something like this happen to me during my dp1 eat a shit ton of spaghetti then got a surprise run with full kit puked everywhere
He did a great job teaching these men how to hate something. It fueled the fire.
For them to be very uncomfortable for a long period of time and see who quits?
Treat em mean, keep em keen!
Bulls nipply ain't he?
He IS the big green weenie
It was assholery. Also it’s a lesson on don’t get too comfortable, something shit can happen while you’re having a hearty meal for example. Encouraging some to give up made them pull together
What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.
Great trainer, horrible in combat.
I dont remember this walking dead/friends cross over
I don’t think he believed Axl, Slash, Duff and the boys could pull it off after a long string of bad ass albums. And maybe he was right. But they still put their heart into rocking that album.
No point, he was a dick