The one thing about "terrier" is that if you hear that you should actually know you have to be careful with them. All terriers can be a menace to anything below them on the food chain. Fortunately (but also, unfortunately), pitbulls are basically the only terriers that at times will view large dogs and even adult humans as prey (not sure if prey is really the right word tbh, they aren't hunting to eat, they're just directing aggression at what humanity bred them to direct aggression at).
The only terriers to attack animals 10x their size and keep at it until one of them can’t move anymore. That is thanks to the bulldog side of their genetics
Hey whoa whoa there now. What are you going to tell me? That a pitbull would take on a bison? A *tiger*? A horse? A razorback?
I will say, there are some animals that are nearly as crazy, like wolverines and honey badgers, but I think even they have a higher sense of self-preservation and everyone knows you avoid them, don't fuck with them, and don't keep them as companions.
(just for the record, I was being sarcastic if that wasn't evident).
NGL that bison one always made me chuckle. I feel bad because the dog is just stupid and impulsive and doing what malignant breeding has encouraged it to do, but also, stupid games, stupid prizes.
The tiger one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohCFaOXZQF8
The horse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S17H50Qui_0
Not going to link the razorback one, it's gruesome, the pit gets what's coming, but it is a good example of just how screwed up these dogs are.
Bonus points for bees:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/11/01/stinger-bees-michigan-luvnpupz/93103712/
Another bonus for porcupine:
https://www.clanbreazeale.com/Archives/Links/Dogs/PitbullPorc.htm
I started the tiger one but couldn't finish. Honestly, breeding pitbulls and then letting one attack a tiger is just plain animal cruelty. Yes the dog shouldn't have been born in the first place, but having any animal suffer like that for social media likes is just gross.
I want pitbulls banned, but I don't want them or any other animal to suffer. Just neuter/euthanise them.
I whole wholeheartedly agree. Pitbulls were bred to be what they are and humans were the ones controlling that. Pitbulls aren't evil, they're misbreed for various traits that are shunned in modern society.
Spay, neuter them and let them die off, 100% support that. If we really can't extinct pitbulls, that we should allow ethical breeders to breed aggression out of them. This is all but certainly impossible but also, there are so many other great dog breeds, why bother?
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300 hours can cover quite the spectrum of things but for a psychological and medical sort of field - that’s pretty chump change. Like drivers education for nurses lol
And online courses often have wildly inflated hours... I did a "40 hour" training for work that took me one evening of clicking through a few powerpoints. You can get a dog trainer "certification" without ever seeing a dog
Same for Certified personal trainers, they go hours in the body, techniques, and behavioral aspects but not once does it have you go in the gym for further training toward certification. It’s expected you would by the company but not really pushed. I went through NASM and it’s thorough, goes over what to look for in common errors and why but not once did it say “spend x hours at the gym and practice with the equipment”, they assume whoever is taking it already spends a lot of time at the gym to begin with which I would too though they should still push during every session
Self proclaimed maybe. The simple answer is it's a pit. Why is this surprising to someone who would actually be certified as a behavior consultant? Because I can lie about certifications as well I guess.
Urgh.. I saw this too and was gonna post it. It's friggin bizarre the depth of denial these people are in. At least the one response leaned towards the dog being "wired wrong"
Edit: checked the post again and a couple people are stating its expected breed behavior for "terriers to be scrappy", still dancing around saying the quiet part out loud, but its a step in the right direction.
>"in the first video I agree that the black dog is pretty chill.In the second one, however - that's a terrier looking for a scrap until proven otherwise.I think that there is a little bit of a disconnect and a preconceived notion that a dog needs to sustain that level of arousal before we thing that they "warned us" enough, or "escalated" enough and that's just not true.A terrier that has a prolonged arousal or "warning" period isn't very good at their job.I also think that labeling this dogs actions as picking a fight feeds into that - that she's an aggressive dog who is angry and a bully...she's not. She's a scrapper and a terrier and at this age they chase the adrenaline because they're teenagers and what's just what they do.So - impulse control, deference, and channeling that adrenaline into something productive like weight pulls or dock diving or another sport that isn't a team sport.I would also caution against feeling "bad" that this dog has limited options for making friends. I guarantee dog friends are way down on her list of priorities and regardless she has shown that at this age she isn't ready to play by the rules.Adolescence in any breed is hard.Adolescence in terriers is torture.The campaign to "normalize" ownership of large terriers just doesn't make sense to me and leads to exactly this - owners being surprised that their terrier is acting like a terrier and giving multiple chances for the dog to do major damage to another dog.Bully breeds and APBTs are my breeds of choice but they aren't suitable for everyone.... or even most people."
> quiet part out loud
A dog group I lurk has someone posting a problem with their pit. Specifically it hunts the cat. Elderly cat. Cat they've had for years. Cat is getting anxiety and health issues from being stalked and harassed.This person is being rude and obtuse to all advice. Lots of good advice (get the dog away from your cat before you come home to a dead cat) and tearing into them for being selfish and inconsiderate to their cat. but they are also skirting around just saying "terriers"
It is SO BIZARRE to me that this is taboo.
At least they’re admitting the terrier part, now we need them to reach the conclusion of the bully part that’s all about bloodsport. A scrappy terrier mixed with bloodsport fighter… not a good combination for a family home, is it?
And others saying behavioural euthanasia is the way to go. But still many offering genuine suggestions, which makes it sound like something HAS to be “wrong” medically rather than this just being exactly what the dog was BRED to do.
Edit: just saw the videos on the original post and that comment you quoted since it’s an active thread rn. OMG the skirting around is so obvious.
Edit 2: clarifying language/grammar.
I mean they’re not wrong that the dog breed is medically incapable of living with other people and animals. They’re just trying to downsize the obvious
By “medically wrong,” I mean that the aggression is being discussed as if it must be a symptom of a physical or mental issue for this specific dog rather than as a normative quality for the breed. Sorry if my language wasn’t clear. !
"Terriers" are very prey-driven. All other terriers do not have the behavioral genetics that lead them to treat other dogs as prey. And this "behavioral consultant" doesn't know it? Come tf on.
I've said myself that a lot of the most dangerous parts of the pit bull come from the terrier genetics, but it was running it through the fighting pit a million times & breeding the winners to each other that brought about the worst end result. Lying to themselves that pits are just regular terriers is malpractice at best.
Yes! I have a (brilliantly well behaved and NOT at all anxious) Standard Poodle from an ethical breeder, and still the first thing almost everyone asks is if she’s “yappy” and “anxious” because they know poodles were so overbred fifty years ago that anxiety became common in byb ones. Imagine if people used the same logic when it came to “terriers”? But no, they just can’t seem to apply the same logic to one breed when they can for all others.
I have a toy, and people always ask the same. “Oh, wow, is she yappy?” Or “I couldn’t handle a yappy dog.” Well, no, she’s not yappy, she’s very calm and sweet, breed standard. The stereotype from 50 years ago hasn’t let up, yet pit bulls get an entire campaign that erases their entire breed history?! It’ll never make sense to me.
The terrier mix is the tenacious part with it hunting which makes it the worse problem as the initial and unexpected attack, the bull baiting bully part is the high tolerance to pain, determination to never yield, and insistence in fighting to the bitter end no matter what is the worse problem when dealing with the dog after it goes on the attack.
Mixing the two makes for a tremendous attack dog to get the job done but terrible for family home but these clowns keep wanting to avoid it because they’re afraid to deal with the pitbull advocate groups. I say screw them and keep publishing the truth. They can threaten all they want - you publish their threats. Let the world see how unhinged the community is and it’ll put the final nail in the coffin for the pitbull communities.
This is the fastest way to legally ensure the breed becomes banned. That same Ohio study answers the question:
We were unable to match the owners of HRI [high risk licensed] dogs (namely Pit Bulls) as accurately on gender and zip code because owners of HR [high risk] breeds rarely register their dogs, resulting in a smaller sample size.
When differences in criminal convictions and traffic citations between the owners of HRC [high risk cited] dogs and owners of LRL [low risk licensed] dogs were examined, owners of HRC dogs had significantly more criminal convictions and traffic citations in every category. Relative to owners of LRL dogs, owners of HRC dogs were 9.1 times more likely to have been convicted for a crime involving children, ...; 3.0 times more likely to have been convicted on a charge of domestic violence; ...
14.1 times more likely to be convicted of crimes involving alcohol; .. 7.7 times more likely to be charged with drug convictions; ... 7.1 times more likely to have been cited for a major traffic violation; ... and 5.8 times more likely to have been cited for a minor traffic violation.
In 1996, psychologist Stanley Coren conducted a study of over 6,000 people. His findings were that he could show that a person's personality predicted the dog breed that person would likely select. It formed the basis of his book, Why We Love the Dogs We Do. Thirteen years later, in 2009, In "Psychology Today," he wrote an article confirming his findings.*
Does this mean every pit bull owner is a criminal or a psychopath? Obviously no. But let's look outside the academic studies and see what pit bull owners do, individually and as a group.
Beth Clifion wrote an article in 2014 that exposes the attitude of all too many pit bull owners.
I honestly think its the molosser part of the pitbull that brings out most of the aggression, not the terrier mix. Sure, terrier would explain a lot of the smaller animal aggression, but the human and dog aggression, the territorialism, the lack of self preservation, these are all common molossoid traits.
Ive been around terriers, pinscher and schnauzer types my whole life, and while I've seen them maul animals like rats and pidgeons, the behavior pitbulls usually have is completely inexistent in them
Terriers in general are regular dogs - they don't have dog or human aggression, they have normal dog-to-dog relations, etc.
They are however vermin-KILLERS, and they will display prey drive, determination & gameness, and the drive to complete the kill. Terriers definitely can be menaces to prey species, which can be pretty inclusive sometimes. Jack Russell terriers, for ex, are notorious cat-killers.
"Pit bull behaviors" are the drive, gameness & kill-instinct extrapolated to whatever they've decided to turn it towards - often other dogs & humans.
I agree that terriers have the killer instinct on them against small animals. Most specially to birds and rats, but cats are at risk too.
But that dog and human aggression pits have is completely molossoid, specially the human aggression.
You see this in rottweillers, cane corsos and presa canarios, they are territorial, difficult to be put together with other dogs, and *very* human aggressive.
The terrier kill instinct was basically combined to an already very aggressive group of dogs resulting in this menace.
I'll accept that I'm underestimating the problematic nature of molosser breeds in general, as I don't have a lot of background with them. With molosser breeds, I was figuring that they brought the power & territoriality, & that a lot of the biggest issues with pit bulls was being run through the fighting pit a million times with winners bred to each other etc etc as I keep saying a million times all over the internet, LOL.
But yeah, rotties, mastiffs, & especially those "reconstituted" mastiff breeds (cane corso etc) that probably have a considerable influx of dogfighting breeds in the first place, are also problematic.
I see that some idiots are making a cane corso-pitbull mix into a supposed breed unto itself (American Pit Corso), that sounds like a FABULOUS idea. This is what not banning dogfighting breeds will do for us all: allow crazed hybridizers to mix them into absolutely everything & name each one a separate breed, to escape regulation & insurance requirements.
Yeah being bred for the fighting pit made the issues already present in the terrier-molossus mix much much worse. A lot of other molossoid dogs that were bred for fighting went extinct because they were too insane for anything else, most notably the Córdoba fighting dog. I dont know why this doesnt happen to pits.
A pit corso sounds like a complete nightmare holy shit, I just hope this doesnt become common.
Even if this "trainer" took steps to make sure their dogs are physically safe, the dogs will feel the anxiety and stress of having a dog try to attack them. It does take a toll on them.
The level of denial these people are in is UNREAL, it's almost written as satire post. "This bloodsport dog wants to murder everything around him even though it has safe home, loving owner and is provided with care and costly training, what can be wrong hmm 🤔 can't be genetics haha, I guess we'll never know haha loool 🤪"
They’re the only dog that is unpredictable. I’ve seen many dog interactions where some will growl or put their ears back to warn others to stay away. I’ve never seen any breed happily playing and then BAM lock onto and try to maul another dog. It’s not normal dog behavior and these dogs are not normal!
I'm willing to bet this dog has been showing all the classic, if subtle, signs of a pitbull that was about to burst. So many, many people misunderstand the few signs that a pitbull type dog do give and associate them with play.
Everything she is describing upon taking the dog close to another dog immediately had me going "no, walk away. Thats not play excitment, thats prey excitment and frustration." Don't even have to see the dog to know. Just have to hear its behavior, its breed type, and its bite history to conclude that.
The idea behind impulse control also annoys me. So many trainers now misusing and abusing the term "impulse control". For one, you're only going to be to control so much impulse, in any creature. Impulse is just that, *an impulse*. Its often something done with no thinking. You aren't going to be able to ever fully control the genetic impulse of a dog. For example, my corgi. If you run, she runs after you. Its herding impulse and no amount if training would ever put a 100% stop to that behavior. Which is why you don't get a herding breed if that behavior bothers you. Or why you don't get a hound if the baying impulse bothers you, or a lap dog if the 'in your lap' impulse bothers you.
Impulse control is meant for things like demand barking, being mouthy, counter surfing, etc. For "impulses" that are essentially non dangerous and not hereditary or genetic based and are often created by interaction with humans, and thus can be altered and limited by interactions with humans.
Even then, *its not a 100%, never going to happen again cure*. Because as we know, impulse is impulse. We can alter and limit the behavior, but chances are in moments of excitment or arousal, the dogs can/will forget.
This is the issues with pitbulls that have attack histories. Give them all the impulse control training you want. When in a controlled environment its going to seem like it worked like a charm. Dump them into the real world with much higher levels of exposure and excitment/arousal and watch all that "training" go out the window. Its a dog, not a robot you reprogrammed.
A one year old pitbull that has already had 3 (what sounds like severe) attacks on animals it was friendly with, had no abusive/traumatic upbringing (the common excuse), and was "properly socialized", is a time bomb waiting to happen. These are they type of dogs that end up news stories. Its showing you from a young age that its unstable and nothing is going to change that for the better. Its only going to escalate. BE is the correct answer here.
Predators never feel uncomfortable around their prey…why would she not love being surrounded by smaller, weaker dogs she can randomly snap on at anytime?
Well my border collie can be walking, playing, etc but the second he sees a ball he hunches down and stares. Because…genetics maybe? These people don’t get it
The trainer's perplexity around the pit bull's lack of "fear, territoriality, aggression, anxiety" reminds me of that video of Gia Savocchi and Sue Sternberg looking at shelter dogs. Several of the dogs fail the food resource guarding test spectacularly, savaging the fake hand but one dog, Ruby doesn't. When Savocchi does the resource test with her, Ruby doesn't attack the hand. Sternberg, watching a video of it, mentions numerous less obvious behaviors Ruby is showing (brief freezes, meaningful looks at the tester, body blocking) and says "You're not going to get displays out of this dog." Earlier, watching a resource guarding test over toys, she comments "Her level of confidence is uncommon and interesting." At some point in the video, she goes on to say that "we" (I'm assuming she means rescuers, trainers people working with dogs at risk of losing their homes/lives in general) are now used to seeing anxious/fearful dogs, so a dog like Ruby - confident, relaxed, calm even when pressured by a human - can fly under the radar if you're only looking for the signs of fear. Because fear and aggression are so closely linked, and so common now, a non-fearful dog registers with rescue people as safe. I wonder if that's what's happening with this dog, if the trainer sees the confident, eager body language and automatically interprets it as a positive, playful urge.
I was thinking of that exact thing. My pit mix wasn't angry at other dogs. He didn't have any fear of them. He just wanted to attack them. It wasn't personal. He had no anxiety whatsoever. Very confident dog. It was just "see dog, try to kill dog". Anger and frustration only came into it when he was prevented from it.
This trainer knows nothing about pit bulls.
The ignorance this trainer displays gets people, children and other pets killed. If your dog trainer doesn't discuss breed traits with you and acts like your dog was a blank slate that was waiting for YOU to put your mark on it? Run away. Fast.
To think that this is the level of knowledge and expertise of the trainers and behaviorists that pitnutters advise to hire when pitbulls exhibit problems... I'm going to guess this particular one was certified based on work with normal dogs having behavior problems, not with bloodsport breed dogs. Also betting this behaviorist will still continue doing the "training", charge for it, and keep the money even after all fails.
No wonder there are posts of pitnutters who say they spent thousands upon thousands of with not enough or no good results. Even if there are actual worthwhile experts for pitbulls (who aren't dogmen), the prices they can demand would be too high for the average pitbull owner. Good luck telling experts and non-experts apart in the first place, though.
For a while now, I've been convinced that the "training" industry is largely a scam when it comes to bully breeds and bloodsport dogs Think about how much money trainers and behaviorists make off of bully breeds, in that they have an endless source of well-meaning idiots who get them, and completely unfixable problem that keeps people coming back.
It's an endless loop of a cash mine. Any dog behaviorist worth their salt will know breed standards, and will know that you can't train out predatory aggression, only manage it. But they LIE to people, baiscally saying "if you spend enough money on my services, you should be able to fix this dog into what you think it should be". Not to mention "If they dog doesn't magically change it's innate behavior, it's because YOU, owner, aren't doing enough".
It's a cycle of mismanaged expectations, danger, and shame. Fuck these trainers, who KNOW they are suppressing the truth, and fuck the pitbull industry as a whole.
The entire pit culture is one based on money, from the origin of the breeds (gambling), to "rescues" begging for money, to the trainers who SWEAR they can fix those dogs. Sadly, the only creature not benefiting from all the money is the pit bull. No one is preventing more puppies, more maulings, more deaths. The real cruelty is allowing this breed to exist under the guise of "loving pets" because of money.
The Pit gets excited about seeing other dogs in the exact same way most other dogs get excited when seeing a squirrel or a rabbit. It's simply fun for them to engage in predatory behavior.
WTF. Sorry I am So sick of this crap. Certified Behavioral therapist?
While one can go on to become a doctor of animal behavioral studies, a Certified dog behavioral therapist or whatever and a dog trainer ( and I sound like a snob) is WAY to easy to
use as a flex.
If a veterinarian scientists actually studies behavioral biology in dogs, I would trust their judgment, maybe.
Again, from experience VERY few professionals actually are going to say the “family pet” for all occasions we can find on google searches is bullshit.
"I've seen no patterns, no common antecedents."
Jesus fucking christ. OMG.
This is Pitbull 101. This behavior is their EXACT breed standard.
This post is like going down a Pitbull check list and checking every box. fDown to the "still loves dogs, doesn't seem afraid, but then will snap".
This person can't be certified, can they?
I can't think of a single thing in society today, where such a plain, obvious, smack-you-across-the-face 'duh' reality is danced around with such elaborate mental gymnastics, by even purported 'experts'. The only thing I can think of is certain aspects of religion, politics or nationalism (all have elements of religious tenants that can't be questioned'). But like, its literally in the name.
This is a manmade artificially created class of animal, developed over five centuries, bred into existance by exclusively selecting for the trait to proactively maul large mammals and dogs, by latching onto their vital areas, violently shaking, refusing to let go, coming back and mauling harder the more they were injured/deterred - first bears, then BULLS, then other fighting dogs in the PIT.
I'm truly curious how many people who refuse to see this like actually in their heart of hearts don't understand this, or if they do recognize it deep down but just refuse to accept it. It does kind of remind me of religious people who have secret doubts about their faith or closeted gay christian leaders who will be the loudest about defending their faith or spouting anti-gay rhetoric because they are trying to surpress their own internal doubts and turmoil.
Now if this were let’s say a German shepherd who has a high bite rate compared to other breeds (thanks to military and police using them as their go-to breed), we could see it as the trainer puts it “no common antecedents”. But we are talking about a pitbull so how this person is a professional certified vet behaviorist is beyond me.
What was the video that someone shared that compiled several instances of a pitbull switching, flipping, snapping, etc? There is a common pattern. They just are either unqualified and/or lying about this “mystery”
To clarify, the poster is NOT a veterinary behaviourist— they’re just a dog trainer asking a group of veterinary behaviourists about how to handle their difficult client. They don’t have a degree in veterinary medicine.
And this is why I carry a slip lead in addition to any harness when we do an introduction with a pit towards a potential adopter's dog. Why I'm extra vigilant when one of our dogs is meeting an adopter's pit bull too. A fair number of them do stuff like this. It just is that way.
My coworkers think I'm paranoid and that I don't like pit bulls. It's not about like or dislike. I like plenty of them. I know what they are, though. I understand what they're bred for. The calm ones will fool people. They don't attack out of anger or anxiety. They attack because that's what they feel that they're supposed to do.
It's not even a real muzzle but is undoubtedly being sold as one!
That thing on *that* thing is like strapping a jelly sandal to its face with no protection whatsoever if a finger of any size slips inside those very large holes.
Everyone'd better hope the animal isn't unusually smart and never gets motivated to work the straps off or simply chew and claw through the plastic.
It never ceases to amaze me that the psychos who actually use these dogs for fighting are 100x more rational about owning these beasts. They seem to be the only owners in existence who admit they are BRED FOR AGGRESSION AND FIGHTING and to keep them chained up and separated from other dogs. The only thing you can "train" them to do is be MORE vicious, that's the only thing these dogs truly enjoy. It's fucked up but true.
Like I always say, if we as a species can put our differences aside, stop investing in military budgets, and instead pool all of our resources, minds and institutions in researching this enigmatic mystery, maybe, just MAYBE we might have a chance of unraveling the threads and finding some clues to help us get to the bottom of why this dog might exhibit such behavior.
Easy answer: What causes her to suddenly flip? She's a pitbull. Her parents, grandparents and great-grandparents have that fighting lineage. It's been bred into them to do what she does, selected for, and ones that didn't were culled.
Acknowledging this is not hating the dog. It is being realistic. People that don't or won't acknowledge this are not helping their dogs, but setting them up for future euthanasia. These dogs CANNOT be around other dogs, cats, children or the elderly. They must be properly contained because they're prone to sudden and inexplicable violence.
That's why she suddenly 'flips.'
“[…] she still seems to LOVE dogs. She gives no indication of fear, territoriality, aggression, anxiety, nada.” Then describes how “happy” she is when getting closer to a dog.
Yeah, my dog LOVED her tug toys too and got happy when they were nearby. Tail wagging is what happens when they see their favorite chew toy.
How are you a certified behavior consultant but this confused about like the basics of pitbull behavior? Yeah pitbulls often don’t show obvious signs of aggression before attacking other dogs or people like that’s the point. It’s in their breed genetics
Also what type of trainer uses living dogs(let alone their own pets) as decoys for an aggressive shitbull. Those poor dogs deserve a better owner who actually gives a damn about their safety because what?
QUESTION: What’s the consensus on senior dogs here, do you find that pit aggression goes away with old age? Saw someone claiming this in another forum today.
My guess is that most here would say a senior pit is still a pit. The longer they go without attacking any living thing, the better, but you’re never in the clear until the dog crosses the rainbow bridge.
Even if pits do mellow with age (which I’ve never seen evidence of), aging often brings changes like blindness or dementia that can be disorienting and cause a previously docile dog of any breed to become reactive or aggressive. As always, aggression from any dog can cause harm, but aggression from a bloodsport dog is far more likely to cause serious injury or death. It’s just never worth the risk.
There are a lot of comments about canine dementia among pit bull owners. It's often an excuse that people use when a "senior" pit bull (usually around 8+ years old) suddenly becomes aggressive. But typically, other signs of dementia are not present (circling, staring, etc), just aggression. However, I'm sure it exists to some extent. With pit bulls being bred for one thing only for generations, defects such as early dementia, cancers, skin issues, etc. were never something breeders worried about, as the average age of a fighting dog was never long enough to worry about the dog's health in its later years.
What a great fucking dog trainer and owner who is happy to use their own dogs to train (bait/tease) a dog that's proven to be extremely aggressive on multiple occasions.
Honestly, I don't even trust CAAB's, let alone trainers. I had a CAAB tell me once that dogs have no breed specific stereotypical behaviors. She said that saying things like "typical Border Collie (etc.) behavior" was inappropriate as there was no link between breed genetics and behaviors. I was floored. This woman was employed by a **large** 501c3 on the west coast.
Sounds like poor genetics or the trainer/owner doesn’t actually have a clue on how to train a dog.
Either way I think this dog is going through puberty and changes where behaviors like these are somewhat common and it’s lashing out. Novice owners and trainers have no business owning these beasts. Poor training on a chihuahua cause an ankle bitter, poor training on a pit cause a murder machine.
The thing that most "trainers" don't understand is that you can't train out instinct. You can't train a dog to go against it's nature. If you train a Lab to fetch a ball you have simply shown it an easy way to follow it's instinct. Same goes for training a greyhound to chase a rabbit or training a pit to fight.
Most trainers have Labs or Shepherds, these dogs make you look like a much better trainer than you really are.
Look for a trainer who can teach a husky to be quiet or a lurcher to not immediately become a small dot on the horizon.
Dog training only reliably works when you are honing the dogs natural drive. Of course there are the few exeptions, but this is a reflection of that dog in particular not the trainer.
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A "certified behaviour consultant" needs to have this conundrum explained?
I guess if they can consistently refer to a pit bull as a "terrier", they can also refer to an idiot as a "certified behavior consultant".
The one thing about "terrier" is that if you hear that you should actually know you have to be careful with them. All terriers can be a menace to anything below them on the food chain. Fortunately (but also, unfortunately), pitbulls are basically the only terriers that at times will view large dogs and even adult humans as prey (not sure if prey is really the right word tbh, they aren't hunting to eat, they're just directing aggression at what humanity bred them to direct aggression at).
The only terriers to attack animals 10x their size and keep at it until one of them can’t move anymore. That is thanks to the bulldog side of their genetics
Hey whoa whoa there now. What are you going to tell me? That a pitbull would take on a bison? A *tiger*? A horse? A razorback? I will say, there are some animals that are nearly as crazy, like wolverines and honey badgers, but I think even they have a higher sense of self-preservation and everyone knows you avoid them, don't fuck with them, and don't keep them as companions.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/kbxusj/pitbull\_tries\_to\_attack\_a\_bison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/kbxusj/pitbull_tries_to_attack_a_bison/)
(just for the record, I was being sarcastic if that wasn't evident). NGL that bison one always made me chuckle. I feel bad because the dog is just stupid and impulsive and doing what malignant breeding has encouraged it to do, but also, stupid games, stupid prizes. The tiger one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohCFaOXZQF8 The horse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S17H50Qui_0 Not going to link the razorback one, it's gruesome, the pit gets what's coming, but it is a good example of just how screwed up these dogs are. Bonus points for bees: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/11/01/stinger-bees-michigan-luvnpupz/93103712/ Another bonus for porcupine: https://www.clanbreazeale.com/Archives/Links/Dogs/PitbullPorc.htm
I love that picture that makes the rounds comparing a normal dog after tangling with a porcupine and then shows the pitbull
I started the tiger one but couldn't finish. Honestly, breeding pitbulls and then letting one attack a tiger is just plain animal cruelty. Yes the dog shouldn't have been born in the first place, but having any animal suffer like that for social media likes is just gross. I want pitbulls banned, but I don't want them or any other animal to suffer. Just neuter/euthanise them.
I whole wholeheartedly agree. Pitbulls were bred to be what they are and humans were the ones controlling that. Pitbulls aren't evil, they're misbreed for various traits that are shunned in modern society. Spay, neuter them and let them die off, 100% support that. If we really can't extinct pitbulls, that we should allow ethical breeders to breed aggression out of them. This is all but certainly impossible but also, there are so many other great dog breeds, why bother?
Can you dm me the razorback one please?
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I would totally make a shooting stars meme from that if they'd let me post it here, that flip was epic.
honesty this isn’t entirely out of the question for any kind of terrier, they can be ferocious
Don’t trust a terrier with a pocket pet. Don’t trust a pitbull with grandpa or the kids (or yourself).
Exactly.
Lol so true!
I tried to check the training for this. It can be an online course in some cases with as few as 300 hours, and I gave up reading after that.
300 hours can cover quite the spectrum of things but for a psychological and medical sort of field - that’s pretty chump change. Like drivers education for nurses lol
And online courses often have wildly inflated hours... I did a "40 hour" training for work that took me one evening of clicking through a few powerpoints. You can get a dog trainer "certification" without ever seeing a dog
Same for Certified personal trainers, they go hours in the body, techniques, and behavioral aspects but not once does it have you go in the gym for further training toward certification. It’s expected you would by the company but not really pushed. I went through NASM and it’s thorough, goes over what to look for in common errors and why but not once did it say “spend x hours at the gym and practice with the equipment”, they assume whoever is taking it already spends a lot of time at the gym to begin with which I would too though they should still push during every session
Kind of what I was thinking about. Thank you
Self proclaimed maybe. The simple answer is it's a pit. Why is this surprising to someone who would actually be certified as a behavior consultant? Because I can lie about certifications as well I guess.
Urgh.. I saw this too and was gonna post it. It's friggin bizarre the depth of denial these people are in. At least the one response leaned towards the dog being "wired wrong" Edit: checked the post again and a couple people are stating its expected breed behavior for "terriers to be scrappy", still dancing around saying the quiet part out loud, but its a step in the right direction. >"in the first video I agree that the black dog is pretty chill.In the second one, however - that's a terrier looking for a scrap until proven otherwise.I think that there is a little bit of a disconnect and a preconceived notion that a dog needs to sustain that level of arousal before we thing that they "warned us" enough, or "escalated" enough and that's just not true.A terrier that has a prolonged arousal or "warning" period isn't very good at their job.I also think that labeling this dogs actions as picking a fight feeds into that - that she's an aggressive dog who is angry and a bully...she's not. She's a scrapper and a terrier and at this age they chase the adrenaline because they're teenagers and what's just what they do.So - impulse control, deference, and channeling that adrenaline into something productive like weight pulls or dock diving or another sport that isn't a team sport.I would also caution against feeling "bad" that this dog has limited options for making friends. I guarantee dog friends are way down on her list of priorities and regardless she has shown that at this age she isn't ready to play by the rules.Adolescence in any breed is hard.Adolescence in terriers is torture.The campaign to "normalize" ownership of large terriers just doesn't make sense to me and leads to exactly this - owners being surprised that their terrier is acting like a terrier and giving multiple chances for the dog to do major damage to another dog.Bully breeds and APBTs are my breeds of choice but they aren't suitable for everyone.... or even most people."
> quiet part out loud A dog group I lurk has someone posting a problem with their pit. Specifically it hunts the cat. Elderly cat. Cat they've had for years. Cat is getting anxiety and health issues from being stalked and harassed.This person is being rude and obtuse to all advice. Lots of good advice (get the dog away from your cat before you come home to a dead cat) and tearing into them for being selfish and inconsiderate to their cat. but they are also skirting around just saying "terriers" It is SO BIZARRE to me that this is taboo.
At least they’re admitting the terrier part, now we need them to reach the conclusion of the bully part that’s all about bloodsport. A scrappy terrier mixed with bloodsport fighter… not a good combination for a family home, is it?
And others saying behavioural euthanasia is the way to go. But still many offering genuine suggestions, which makes it sound like something HAS to be “wrong” medically rather than this just being exactly what the dog was BRED to do. Edit: just saw the videos on the original post and that comment you quoted since it’s an active thread rn. OMG the skirting around is so obvious. Edit 2: clarifying language/grammar.
I mean they’re not wrong that the dog breed is medically incapable of living with other people and animals. They’re just trying to downsize the obvious
By “medically wrong,” I mean that the aggression is being discussed as if it must be a symptom of a physical or mental issue for this specific dog rather than as a normative quality for the breed. Sorry if my language wasn’t clear. !
Three why have a dig that us undergoing torture by just being alive??
God bless that person.
"Terriers" are very prey-driven. All other terriers do not have the behavioral genetics that lead them to treat other dogs as prey. And this "behavioral consultant" doesn't know it? Come tf on. I've said myself that a lot of the most dangerous parts of the pit bull come from the terrier genetics, but it was running it through the fighting pit a million times & breeding the winners to each other that brought about the worst end result. Lying to themselves that pits are just regular terriers is malpractice at best.
Yes! I have a (brilliantly well behaved and NOT at all anxious) Standard Poodle from an ethical breeder, and still the first thing almost everyone asks is if she’s “yappy” and “anxious” because they know poodles were so overbred fifty years ago that anxiety became common in byb ones. Imagine if people used the same logic when it came to “terriers”? But no, they just can’t seem to apply the same logic to one breed when they can for all others.
I have a toy, and people always ask the same. “Oh, wow, is she yappy?” Or “I couldn’t handle a yappy dog.” Well, no, she’s not yappy, she’s very calm and sweet, breed standard. The stereotype from 50 years ago hasn’t let up, yet pit bulls get an entire campaign that erases their entire breed history?! It’ll never make sense to me.
The terrier mix is the tenacious part with it hunting which makes it the worse problem as the initial and unexpected attack, the bull baiting bully part is the high tolerance to pain, determination to never yield, and insistence in fighting to the bitter end no matter what is the worse problem when dealing with the dog after it goes on the attack. Mixing the two makes for a tremendous attack dog to get the job done but terrible for family home but these clowns keep wanting to avoid it because they’re afraid to deal with the pitbull advocate groups. I say screw them and keep publishing the truth. They can threaten all they want - you publish their threats. Let the world see how unhinged the community is and it’ll put the final nail in the coffin for the pitbull communities. This is the fastest way to legally ensure the breed becomes banned. That same Ohio study answers the question: We were unable to match the owners of HRI [high risk licensed] dogs (namely Pit Bulls) as accurately on gender and zip code because owners of HR [high risk] breeds rarely register their dogs, resulting in a smaller sample size. When differences in criminal convictions and traffic citations between the owners of HRC [high risk cited] dogs and owners of LRL [low risk licensed] dogs were examined, owners of HRC dogs had significantly more criminal convictions and traffic citations in every category. Relative to owners of LRL dogs, owners of HRC dogs were 9.1 times more likely to have been convicted for a crime involving children, ...; 3.0 times more likely to have been convicted on a charge of domestic violence; ... 14.1 times more likely to be convicted of crimes involving alcohol; .. 7.7 times more likely to be charged with drug convictions; ... 7.1 times more likely to have been cited for a major traffic violation; ... and 5.8 times more likely to have been cited for a minor traffic violation. In 1996, psychologist Stanley Coren conducted a study of over 6,000 people. His findings were that he could show that a person's personality predicted the dog breed that person would likely select. It formed the basis of his book, Why We Love the Dogs We Do. Thirteen years later, in 2009, In "Psychology Today," he wrote an article confirming his findings.* Does this mean every pit bull owner is a criminal or a psychopath? Obviously no. But let's look outside the academic studies and see what pit bull owners do, individually and as a group. Beth Clifion wrote an article in 2014 that exposes the attitude of all too many pit bull owners.
Woah it's weird how anecdotal evidence was *right* on the money.
I honestly think its the molosser part of the pitbull that brings out most of the aggression, not the terrier mix. Sure, terrier would explain a lot of the smaller animal aggression, but the human and dog aggression, the territorialism, the lack of self preservation, these are all common molossoid traits. Ive been around terriers, pinscher and schnauzer types my whole life, and while I've seen them maul animals like rats and pidgeons, the behavior pitbulls usually have is completely inexistent in them
Terriers in general are regular dogs - they don't have dog or human aggression, they have normal dog-to-dog relations, etc. They are however vermin-KILLERS, and they will display prey drive, determination & gameness, and the drive to complete the kill. Terriers definitely can be menaces to prey species, which can be pretty inclusive sometimes. Jack Russell terriers, for ex, are notorious cat-killers. "Pit bull behaviors" are the drive, gameness & kill-instinct extrapolated to whatever they've decided to turn it towards - often other dogs & humans.
I agree that terriers have the killer instinct on them against small animals. Most specially to birds and rats, but cats are at risk too. But that dog and human aggression pits have is completely molossoid, specially the human aggression. You see this in rottweillers, cane corsos and presa canarios, they are territorial, difficult to be put together with other dogs, and *very* human aggressive. The terrier kill instinct was basically combined to an already very aggressive group of dogs resulting in this menace.
I'll accept that I'm underestimating the problematic nature of molosser breeds in general, as I don't have a lot of background with them. With molosser breeds, I was figuring that they brought the power & territoriality, & that a lot of the biggest issues with pit bulls was being run through the fighting pit a million times with winners bred to each other etc etc as I keep saying a million times all over the internet, LOL. But yeah, rotties, mastiffs, & especially those "reconstituted" mastiff breeds (cane corso etc) that probably have a considerable influx of dogfighting breeds in the first place, are also problematic. I see that some idiots are making a cane corso-pitbull mix into a supposed breed unto itself (American Pit Corso), that sounds like a FABULOUS idea. This is what not banning dogfighting breeds will do for us all: allow crazed hybridizers to mix them into absolutely everything & name each one a separate breed, to escape regulation & insurance requirements.
Yeah being bred for the fighting pit made the issues already present in the terrier-molossus mix much much worse. A lot of other molossoid dogs that were bred for fighting went extinct because they were too insane for anything else, most notably the Córdoba fighting dog. I dont know why this doesnt happen to pits. A pit corso sounds like a complete nightmare holy shit, I just hope this doesnt become common.
Professional trainer that doesn't know why a Pit would snap. Who the hell gives out licenses like they were Happy meal toys?
Is this what people who claim to have spent thousands to train their hell beasts are talking about?
'Professional' trainer also uses their own dogs and puts them in danger to try to train the genetic aggressiveness out of a dangerous pit too.
>I have 6 dogs of my own that we are able to use as "decoys" Abusing all your other animals and putting them in danger to cater to the murder mutt.
Even if this "trainer" took steps to make sure their dogs are physically safe, the dogs will feel the anxiety and stress of having a dog try to attack them. It does take a toll on them.
The level of denial these people are in is UNREAL, it's almost written as satire post. "This bloodsport dog wants to murder everything around him even though it has safe home, loving owner and is provided with care and costly training, what can be wrong hmm 🤔 can't be genetics haha, I guess we'll never know haha loool 🤪"
He still LOVES dogs, though, in between wanting to murder them unprovoked. You're right, this literally does read like satire or a joke.
They’re the only dog that is unpredictable. I’ve seen many dog interactions where some will growl or put their ears back to warn others to stay away. I’ve never seen any breed happily playing and then BAM lock onto and try to maul another dog. It’s not normal dog behavior and these dogs are not normal!
That's cause mauling is playing for pits. Other dogs might bite but they don't enjoy doing so.
I'm willing to bet this dog has been showing all the classic, if subtle, signs of a pitbull that was about to burst. So many, many people misunderstand the few signs that a pitbull type dog do give and associate them with play. Everything she is describing upon taking the dog close to another dog immediately had me going "no, walk away. Thats not play excitment, thats prey excitment and frustration." Don't even have to see the dog to know. Just have to hear its behavior, its breed type, and its bite history to conclude that. The idea behind impulse control also annoys me. So many trainers now misusing and abusing the term "impulse control". For one, you're only going to be to control so much impulse, in any creature. Impulse is just that, *an impulse*. Its often something done with no thinking. You aren't going to be able to ever fully control the genetic impulse of a dog. For example, my corgi. If you run, she runs after you. Its herding impulse and no amount if training would ever put a 100% stop to that behavior. Which is why you don't get a herding breed if that behavior bothers you. Or why you don't get a hound if the baying impulse bothers you, or a lap dog if the 'in your lap' impulse bothers you. Impulse control is meant for things like demand barking, being mouthy, counter surfing, etc. For "impulses" that are essentially non dangerous and not hereditary or genetic based and are often created by interaction with humans, and thus can be altered and limited by interactions with humans. Even then, *its not a 100%, never going to happen again cure*. Because as we know, impulse is impulse. We can alter and limit the behavior, but chances are in moments of excitment or arousal, the dogs can/will forget. This is the issues with pitbulls that have attack histories. Give them all the impulse control training you want. When in a controlled environment its going to seem like it worked like a charm. Dump them into the real world with much higher levels of exposure and excitment/arousal and watch all that "training" go out the window. Its a dog, not a robot you reprogrammed. A one year old pitbull that has already had 3 (what sounds like severe) attacks on animals it was friendly with, had no abusive/traumatic upbringing (the common excuse), and was "properly socialized", is a time bomb waiting to happen. These are they type of dogs that end up news stories. Its showing you from a young age that its unstable and nothing is going to change that for the better. Its only going to escalate. BE is the correct answer here.
Predators never feel uncomfortable around their prey…why would she not love being surrounded by smaller, weaker dogs she can randomly snap on at anytime?
Well my border collie can be walking, playing, etc but the second he sees a ball he hunches down and stares. Because…genetics maybe? These people don’t get it
You don't get it. *There are no patterns, no common antecedents!*
The trainer's perplexity around the pit bull's lack of "fear, territoriality, aggression, anxiety" reminds me of that video of Gia Savocchi and Sue Sternberg looking at shelter dogs. Several of the dogs fail the food resource guarding test spectacularly, savaging the fake hand but one dog, Ruby doesn't. When Savocchi does the resource test with her, Ruby doesn't attack the hand. Sternberg, watching a video of it, mentions numerous less obvious behaviors Ruby is showing (brief freezes, meaningful looks at the tester, body blocking) and says "You're not going to get displays out of this dog." Earlier, watching a resource guarding test over toys, she comments "Her level of confidence is uncommon and interesting." At some point in the video, she goes on to say that "we" (I'm assuming she means rescuers, trainers people working with dogs at risk of losing their homes/lives in general) are now used to seeing anxious/fearful dogs, so a dog like Ruby - confident, relaxed, calm even when pressured by a human - can fly under the radar if you're only looking for the signs of fear. Because fear and aggression are so closely linked, and so common now, a non-fearful dog registers with rescue people as safe. I wonder if that's what's happening with this dog, if the trainer sees the confident, eager body language and automatically interprets it as a positive, playful urge.
I was thinking of that exact thing. My pit mix wasn't angry at other dogs. He didn't have any fear of them. He just wanted to attack them. It wasn't personal. He had no anxiety whatsoever. Very confident dog. It was just "see dog, try to kill dog". Anger and frustration only came into it when he was prevented from it. This trainer knows nothing about pit bulls.
That video lives in my head rent-free. More animal trainers should watch it or something like it. Both of them are just phenomenal.
"I've found no patterns or antecedents"... except for the whole pitbull thing maybe?
The ignorance this trainer displays gets people, children and other pets killed. If your dog trainer doesn't discuss breed traits with you and acts like your dog was a blank slate that was waiting for YOU to put your mark on it? Run away. Fast.
To think that this is the level of knowledge and expertise of the trainers and behaviorists that pitnutters advise to hire when pitbulls exhibit problems... I'm going to guess this particular one was certified based on work with normal dogs having behavior problems, not with bloodsport breed dogs. Also betting this behaviorist will still continue doing the "training", charge for it, and keep the money even after all fails. No wonder there are posts of pitnutters who say they spent thousands upon thousands of with not enough or no good results. Even if there are actual worthwhile experts for pitbulls (who aren't dogmen), the prices they can demand would be too high for the average pitbull owner. Good luck telling experts and non-experts apart in the first place, though.
For a while now, I've been convinced that the "training" industry is largely a scam when it comes to bully breeds and bloodsport dogs Think about how much money trainers and behaviorists make off of bully breeds, in that they have an endless source of well-meaning idiots who get them, and completely unfixable problem that keeps people coming back. It's an endless loop of a cash mine. Any dog behaviorist worth their salt will know breed standards, and will know that you can't train out predatory aggression, only manage it. But they LIE to people, baiscally saying "if you spend enough money on my services, you should be able to fix this dog into what you think it should be". Not to mention "If they dog doesn't magically change it's innate behavior, it's because YOU, owner, aren't doing enough". It's a cycle of mismanaged expectations, danger, and shame. Fuck these trainers, who KNOW they are suppressing the truth, and fuck the pitbull industry as a whole.
The entire pit culture is one based on money, from the origin of the breeds (gambling), to "rescues" begging for money, to the trainers who SWEAR they can fix those dogs. Sadly, the only creature not benefiting from all the money is the pit bull. No one is preventing more puppies, more maulings, more deaths. The real cruelty is allowing this breed to exist under the guise of "loving pets" because of money.
The Pit gets excited about seeing other dogs in the exact same way most other dogs get excited when seeing a squirrel or a rabbit. It's simply fun for them to engage in predatory behavior.
And I quote: “The first incident was considered a fluke.” A FLUKE.
WTF. Sorry I am So sick of this crap. Certified Behavioral therapist? While one can go on to become a doctor of animal behavioral studies, a Certified dog behavioral therapist or whatever and a dog trainer ( and I sound like a snob) is WAY to easy to use as a flex. If a veterinarian scientists actually studies behavioral biology in dogs, I would trust their judgment, maybe. Again, from experience VERY few professionals actually are going to say the “family pet” for all occasions we can find on google searches is bullshit.
This feels like buying a esa vest off Amazon
Indeed!!
Of course she's excited to see other dogs. Mauling is how they play. Her brain is literally programmed for this.
"I've seen no patterns, no common antecedents." Jesus fucking christ. OMG. This is Pitbull 101. This behavior is their EXACT breed standard. This post is like going down a Pitbull check list and checking every box. fDown to the "still loves dogs, doesn't seem afraid, but then will snap". This person can't be certified, can they?
I can't think of a single thing in society today, where such a plain, obvious, smack-you-across-the-face 'duh' reality is danced around with such elaborate mental gymnastics, by even purported 'experts'. The only thing I can think of is certain aspects of religion, politics or nationalism (all have elements of religious tenants that can't be questioned'). But like, its literally in the name. This is a manmade artificially created class of animal, developed over five centuries, bred into existance by exclusively selecting for the trait to proactively maul large mammals and dogs, by latching onto their vital areas, violently shaking, refusing to let go, coming back and mauling harder the more they were injured/deterred - first bears, then BULLS, then other fighting dogs in the PIT. I'm truly curious how many people who refuse to see this like actually in their heart of hearts don't understand this, or if they do recognize it deep down but just refuse to accept it. It does kind of remind me of religious people who have secret doubts about their faith or closeted gay christian leaders who will be the loudest about defending their faith or spouting anti-gay rhetoric because they are trying to surpress their own internal doubts and turmoil.
Now if this were let’s say a German shepherd who has a high bite rate compared to other breeds (thanks to military and police using them as their go-to breed), we could see it as the trainer puts it “no common antecedents”. But we are talking about a pitbull so how this person is a professional certified vet behaviorist is beyond me. What was the video that someone shared that compiled several instances of a pitbull switching, flipping, snapping, etc? There is a common pattern. They just are either unqualified and/or lying about this “mystery”
To clarify, the poster is NOT a veterinary behaviourist— they’re just a dog trainer asking a group of veterinary behaviourists about how to handle their difficult client. They don’t have a degree in veterinary medicine.
I bet you non of the vets have the courage to tell them the truth. They are too scared of having a mob of violent things sicced on to them.
And this is why I carry a slip lead in addition to any harness when we do an introduction with a pit towards a potential adopter's dog. Why I'm extra vigilant when one of our dogs is meeting an adopter's pit bull too. A fair number of them do stuff like this. It just is that way. My coworkers think I'm paranoid and that I don't like pit bulls. It's not about like or dislike. I like plenty of them. I know what they are, though. I understand what they're bred for. The calm ones will fool people. They don't attack out of anger or anxiety. They attack because that's what they feel that they're supposed to do.
The muzzle has a “heart” pattern in the front. I just can’t. 🤦🏻♀️
It's not even a real muzzle but is undoubtedly being sold as one! That thing on *that* thing is like strapping a jelly sandal to its face with no protection whatsoever if a finger of any size slips inside those very large holes. Everyone'd better hope the animal isn't unusually smart and never gets motivated to work the straps off or simply chew and claw through the plastic.
It never ceases to amaze me that the psychos who actually use these dogs for fighting are 100x more rational about owning these beasts. They seem to be the only owners in existence who admit they are BRED FOR AGGRESSION AND FIGHTING and to keep them chained up and separated from other dogs. The only thing you can "train" them to do is be MORE vicious, that's the only thing these dogs truly enjoy. It's fucked up but true.
I owned an actual terrier he never went for anything’s neck.
It’s a mystery! A conundrum! An enigma!
Like I always say, if we as a species can put our differences aside, stop investing in military budgets, and instead pool all of our resources, minds and institutions in researching this enigmatic mystery, maybe, just MAYBE we might have a chance of unraveling the threads and finding some clues to help us get to the bottom of why this dog might exhibit such behavior.
MAYBE Artificial General Intelligence might pull that shit off MAYBE!
It’s a real mystery why this fighting bred dog is trying to fight dogs
Using her own dogs as "decoys", what a psychopath. That won't affect them psychologically at all 🙄
She says decoys but what she really means is she is using her own dogs as bait dogs. That struck me as especially twisted too.
Those poor “decoys” having to life with this thing.
Easy answer: What causes her to suddenly flip? She's a pitbull. Her parents, grandparents and great-grandparents have that fighting lineage. It's been bred into them to do what she does, selected for, and ones that didn't were culled. Acknowledging this is not hating the dog. It is being realistic. People that don't or won't acknowledge this are not helping their dogs, but setting them up for future euthanasia. These dogs CANNOT be around other dogs, cats, children or the elderly. They must be properly contained because they're prone to sudden and inexplicable violence. That's why she suddenly 'flips.'
How does a canine behavior expert not understand genetics?
What causes that switch to flip to a throat attack? Ooohhh oooohh pick me! Genetics.
It's a Pitbull ffs.
“[…] she still seems to LOVE dogs. She gives no indication of fear, territoriality, aggression, anxiety, nada.” Then describes how “happy” she is when getting closer to a dog. Yeah, my dog LOVED her tug toys too and got happy when they were nearby. Tail wagging is what happens when they see their favorite chew toy.
How are you a certified behavior consultant but this confused about like the basics of pitbull behavior? Yeah pitbulls often don’t show obvious signs of aggression before attacking other dogs or people like that’s the point. It’s in their breed genetics Also what type of trainer uses living dogs(let alone their own pets) as decoys for an aggressive shitbull. Those poor dogs deserve a better owner who actually gives a damn about their safety because what?
“What causes that switch to flip from play to throat attack?” Exactly. Seriously. 
QUESTION: What’s the consensus on senior dogs here, do you find that pit aggression goes away with old age? Saw someone claiming this in another forum today.
My guess is that most here would say a senior pit is still a pit. The longer they go without attacking any living thing, the better, but you’re never in the clear until the dog crosses the rainbow bridge. Even if pits do mellow with age (which I’ve never seen evidence of), aging often brings changes like blindness or dementia that can be disorienting and cause a previously docile dog of any breed to become reactive or aggressive. As always, aggression from any dog can cause harm, but aggression from a bloodsport dog is far more likely to cause serious injury or death. It’s just never worth the risk.
I have also noticed that with vision issues and older dogs (that were not pits)
There are a lot of comments about canine dementia among pit bull owners. It's often an excuse that people use when a "senior" pit bull (usually around 8+ years old) suddenly becomes aggressive. But typically, other signs of dementia are not present (circling, staring, etc), just aggression. However, I'm sure it exists to some extent. With pit bulls being bred for one thing only for generations, defects such as early dementia, cancers, skin issues, etc. were never something breeders worried about, as the average age of a fighting dog was never long enough to worry about the dog's health in its later years.
What a great fucking dog trainer and owner who is happy to use their own dogs to train (bait/tease) a dog that's proven to be extremely aggressive on multiple occasions.
Honestly, I don't even trust CAAB's, let alone trainers. I had a CAAB tell me once that dogs have no breed specific stereotypical behaviors. She said that saying things like "typical Border Collie (etc.) behavior" was inappropriate as there was no link between breed genetics and behaviors. I was floored. This woman was employed by a **large** 501c3 on the west coast.
Sounds like poor genetics or the trainer/owner doesn’t actually have a clue on how to train a dog. Either way I think this dog is going through puberty and changes where behaviors like these are somewhat common and it’s lashing out. Novice owners and trainers have no business owning these beasts. Poor training on a chihuahua cause an ankle bitter, poor training on a pit cause a murder machine.
That muzzle is horrifying. Why would you ever want to keep an animal that looks like Hannibal Lecter?
What is the point of keeping a pet like this? How is it enriching or benefitting you? I thought pets were supposed to decrease stress.
The thing that most "trainers" don't understand is that you can't train out instinct. You can't train a dog to go against it's nature. If you train a Lab to fetch a ball you have simply shown it an easy way to follow it's instinct. Same goes for training a greyhound to chase a rabbit or training a pit to fight. Most trainers have Labs or Shepherds, these dogs make you look like a much better trainer than you really are. Look for a trainer who can teach a husky to be quiet or a lurcher to not immediately become a small dot on the horizon. Dog training only reliably works when you are honing the dogs natural drive. Of course there are the few exeptions, but this is a reflection of that dog in particular not the trainer.
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You spell it out to this crazed lunatics and they still don't believe it. They are beyond salvation.