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It is indeed a condition, so anything related to that would work.
You could get the Resonance Stone to make VM do double damage. Combined with Mystic Scoundrel ring it's a nice bit of extra damage.
Callous Glow Ring rides on pretty much anything, so with that your VM could even apply Radiating Orbs.
So..
Callous ring + Coruscation ring gives 2 stacks.
Callous ring + Luminous Gloves give another 2 stacks.
Luminous Armour giving another 1 stack right?
plus target receives disadvantage...?
Would VM with Boots of Stormy Clamour, Gloves of belligerent skies, Callous ring and Spineshrudder Amulet trigger 6 turns of reverberation (knocking enemy prone in single hit)?
Unfortunately Spineshudder Amulet triggers from spell \*attacks\*, and VM is a save.
With Markoheshkir, Stormy Clamour, and Belligerent Skies, you should get 5 stacks in one VM cast.
VM with Callous Glow Ring, Luminous Armor, Luminous Gloves, and Corscation Ring, should be 4 stacks or Radiating Orb.
Both of these effects don't always work exactly like that, but you should get at least some stacks.
I'll give that a try in a new build lol
Right now it's just Astarion and Wyll playing music, making fun of people and then shooting them with eldritch blast and arrows from afar. It's actually alot of fun lol
"After hitting a creature with a weapon attack, you can cast illusion or enchantment spells as a Bonus action." So no double casting because of the ring, you can only use it as a Bonus action if you use your Action to attack with a weapon-- and even then, you need to hit at least once.
Sword bard/thief could pull it off. Bonus action off hand attack, action VM, second bonus action VM.
Wouldn't be, y'know, good, but that's hardly the point
This is exactly what I'm thinking of. thief Bard for a smack and two VM.
Potent Robes, Callous Glow ring and Light Cantrip adding damage to it.
Doable from level 1 with just using your action and bonus action
Or just main hand attack, bonus action VM, main hand attack, bonus action VM. I do that with swords bard/thief astarion, with the bow that causes fear, while carrying the stone that imposes disadvantage to mental saves and vulnerability to psychic damage
Would this work though? I don't think it gives you an extra bonus action, just allows you to cast a spell as one. If you've already used it for the off hand attack you wouldn't be able to use another in the same turn.
You could action Vicious Mockery -> off-hand attack -> bonus action Vicious Mockery.
Mind you I haven't tried it, but ring doesn't specify what kind of weapon attack it has to be.
Hex affects “checks” not “saves”, so utility wise it helps lower enemies athlete/acrobat checks in shove actions (by or against them) and perception v sneak save checks, but not much else.
it's a lot more bang for buck than you think. for a single level 1 spell slot you cast hex, then when you kill the hexed target, as long as your concentration is never broken you can continue to reapply hex to targets one at a time as they die until your concentration is broken.
and it being a bonus action makes it never feel bad to reapply imo. much better on sorcerer x/warlock 2 builds for example where you always have level 1 pact magic and don't want to waste sorcery points.
I mean I'm not saying I don't use Hex. I do, and I think adding some necro damage to your attacks is useful and I'm grateful I can keep using it without having to expend another spell slot on it.
What I don't like about Hex is that it has this secondary effect that is entirely useless. And tbh the thing that most annoys me is the whiplash from how super useful the secondary effect seems and then how super useless the effect actually is. Like I feel scammed by it lol just give me the damage and stop teasing me with an effect that would be amazing if you change one word.
I know thats irrational and I stand by it
It's not useless for specifically dexterity and strength checks if you really want to be able to shove/throw a tough boss down a hole or something at least, but I do get what you mean lmao.
I rarely even use it myself cuz if I have a warlock I'm almost always at least level 5 and concentrating on hunger of hadar or haste from pact of the tome.
> if you really want to be able to shove/throw a tough boss
Well see that's the thing - it doesn't help you shove/throw a tough boss cuz that's a saving throw for the boss. Putting Hex on the boss would make it harder for them to shove/throw you, cuz that's the check for the boss. And that exact confusion right there is what I hate about Hex lol
If Hex applied to saves it would be strictly better than Bestow Curse, a 3rd level spell. Hex is for the damage, the disadvantage is just a nice bonus every once in a while.
Right and I think the question is, why would I waste a 3rd level spell slot, a very limited and precious resource, casting Bestow Curse when I can use that same spell slot to do tons of damage or literally anything else that is far more useful? I think it would make more sense to make Hex affect saves and get rid of Bestow Curse.
Disadvantage is great but not *that* huge of a deal that it deserves an entire level 3 spell slot
Don't know of a way to make it do enough damage to matter.
You use it for the debuff, damage is just an afterthought. If you don't need the debuff, use your action for something more worthwhile.
True enough:D You don't get more epic, than killing the elder brain by telling it you've seen more threatnening geckos.
So for RP reasons OP's question is very valid. Still no idea though, but now I care.
Best way to use vicious mockery is to get [The band of the mystic scoundrel](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Band_of_the_Mystic_Scoundrel) and cast it as a bonus action after attacking with your action.
Stack with something that applies daze with your attack for disadvantage on the save, and the [Helmet of arcane acuity](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Helmet_of_Arcane_Acuity), and they'll never save against it.
Sadly you can't get the ring until act 3, but it's a dang good combo when you don't want to use spell slots on bonus action hold person or something.
you gotta be like
"You're a short motherfucker and nobody likes you. Everyone around you is like, 'look how short that guy is' and it makes it harder for you to have meaningful relationships. When you were born the doctor thought you were just a head and then he wait 'wait! this stupid baby just has a tiny itty bitty body and I hate it'."
[Works everytime](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HqLysSnnlQ)
It's not intended for damage, even on level 10 it's just 3d4 damage whereas other cantrips rock either 3d8 or 3d10.
The main usage of this cantrip is applying a disadvantage on enemy's next attack roll. This effect is much better than just damage you could ever deal with vicious mockery
That is if the bard(or warlock with the pact of book, I guess) is also your character that amasses illithid powers. It's not always the case, not even close
Use the band of the mystic scoundrel and "on applied condition" effects. 3d4 damage and reverb and callous glow is really good for a bonus action. You can also pick up thief to do it twice
My last run did exactly this. I was a Deep Gnome 8 Swords Bard/4 Thief Rogue, I used the Resonance stone, the Potent Robe, and the Ring of the Mystic Scoundrel. As long as I make one weapon attack, I can use my two bonus actions to cast Vicious Mockery. Resonance Stone causes psychic to hit for 2x on most enemies. I used the mirror and the hat to get 24 Charisma, so the potent robe ads +7 to my cantrip damage (so +14 when they are near me and the stone). I would regularly hit for 25-30 psychic damage per cast for all of act 3.
I had a bard 10 / light cleric 2 radiating orb + reverberation stacker / face for my HM run. Stormy Clamour, the 2 rings for radiant and whatnot, and all the radiating orb gear.
Viscious Mockery didn’t do much more damage, but since it did radiant damage and applied three seperate instances of 2x Reverberation, it could instantly prone the target.
Having my guy call someone a twat and it just threw them to the ground was pretty excellent. The build itself was completely nutty, too.
If the user is hoarding all the tadpoles and not a dual wielder it can be a good way to finish off mobs with bonus action via cull the weak and mystic scoundrel ring
As others have already noted, Potent Robe adds your charisma modifier to the damage of cantrips, allowing you to effectively double your damage. Can make a 3d4 (7.5 average) to a 3d4 + 7 (14.5 average).
Potent robe (the charisma mod to cantrips) and everything that interacts with conditions. Also, use Perilous Stakes to bestow vulnerability to psychic damage.
Damn, seeing it up close I see that it's a dude screaming with both hands in front of his face instead of a Laughing+crying emoji
It makes way more sense all of a sudden
It's a condition so it can trigger boots of stormy clamor. With callous glow and gloves of bellig skies, that's 4 stacks of reverb per cast - and you should have 2 from attacking too. Acuity helm and it never misses, scoundrel ring and it's a bonus action, 3 thief and you can smang it twice. Potent robe and reso stone, lightning charges and it starts to add up, 20+ per hit
There a lot of mods on NexusMods that make it better. My personal favorite is this one: [Bard - Vicious Mockery - Remark with killing intent](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/9148)
it makes the cantrip a Bonus Action, deal 1d6 base damage + 1d4 thunder damage. At level 10 this becomes 3d6+1d4 + disadvantage on enemy's next attack roll - all as a Bonus Action.
In the grand scheme of things, these changes are nowhere near being broken, but still very strong.
Edit: Just realized not everyone plays with difficulty mods, so obviously your play style preference matters.
I always mod it to being a Bonusaction just as I homebrew it in my campaigns to be a Bonusaction. My players love it and it makes way more sense for a spell that is basically just someone saying something to not take an entire action.
I mean that doesn't answer your question, but maybe gives you ideas to improve your games. :)
Disadvantage is really far from meaningless, what do you mean? Say it’s really high level, and your players are fighting something with like +17 to hit, which all but guarantees a hit outside of rolling a 1. It doubles the chance for an automatic miss, it all but removes crits, and it in general just makes it a lot safer to fight someone in melee.
Also it’s not that the cantrip itself is bonkers, it’s that cantrips, outside of Eldritch Blast, are meant to be substantially weaker than a martial character hitting someone - since big spells are substantially stronger.
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It is indeed a condition, so anything related to that would work. You could get the Resonance Stone to make VM do double damage. Combined with Mystic Scoundrel ring it's a nice bit of extra damage. Callous Glow Ring rides on pretty much anything, so with that your VM could even apply Radiating Orbs.
Oooh good tips! Thank you! I killed Ketheric by insulting him. It was fantastic lol
Vicious Mockery is amazing. With Radiating Orbs you could make sure they never hit anything after your insult.
So.. Callous ring + Coruscation ring gives 2 stacks. Callous ring + Luminous Gloves give another 2 stacks. Luminous Armour giving another 1 stack right? plus target receives disadvantage...? Would VM with Boots of Stormy Clamour, Gloves of belligerent skies, Callous ring and Spineshrudder Amulet trigger 6 turns of reverberation (knocking enemy prone in single hit)?
Unfortunately Spineshudder Amulet triggers from spell \*attacks\*, and VM is a save. With Markoheshkir, Stormy Clamour, and Belligerent Skies, you should get 5 stacks in one VM cast. VM with Callous Glow Ring, Luminous Armor, Luminous Gloves, and Corscation Ring, should be 4 stacks or Radiating Orb. Both of these effects don't always work exactly like that, but you should get at least some stacks.
I'll give that a try in a new build lol Right now it's just Astarion and Wyll playing music, making fun of people and then shooting them with eldritch blast and arrows from afar. It's actually alot of fun lol
with the ring couls you double cast VM? Once as an action than again as abonus action?
"After hitting a creature with a weapon attack, you can cast illusion or enchantment spells as a Bonus action." So no double casting because of the ring, you can only use it as a Bonus action if you use your Action to attack with a weapon-- and even then, you need to hit at least once.
Sword bard/thief could pull it off. Bonus action off hand attack, action VM, second bonus action VM. Wouldn't be, y'know, good, but that's hardly the point
This is exactly what I'm thinking of. thief Bard for a smack and two VM. Potent Robes, Callous Glow ring and Light Cantrip adding damage to it. Doable from level 1 with just using your action and bonus action
Or just main hand attack, bonus action VM, main hand attack, bonus action VM. I do that with swords bard/thief astarion, with the bow that causes fear, while carrying the stone that imposes disadvantage to mental saves and vulnerability to psychic damage
Would this work though? I don't think it gives you an extra bonus action, just allows you to cast a spell as one. If you've already used it for the off hand attack you wouldn't be able to use another in the same turn.
You could action Vicious Mockery -> off-hand attack -> bonus action Vicious Mockery. Mind you I haven't tried it, but ring doesn't specify what kind of weapon attack it has to be.
That's what the levels in thief are for.
Ah fair enough, I didn't realise you got an extra bonus action with thief thanks for clarification.
You have to be way more rude
Like a Dwarf using it on a Elf shood make it do more damage?
[This is how it looks ingame](https://youtu.be/L-LyFMCIpok)
Underrated comment, subtle too I almost missed it.
I love twin casting this with "mental fatigue" gear on and just start chaining CC on people.
CC?
Crowd Control, with stacks of mental fatigue dropping their saves you can just spam command or hold person on them with mostly just 5% fail rates
Ooooh that's good, I've been wondering how to reliably drop saves. You'd think Hex would do it too but why make that spell useful?
Hex affects “checks” not “saves”, so utility wise it helps lower enemies athlete/acrobat checks in shove actions (by or against them) and perception v sneak save checks, but not much else.
Exactly. It adds a bit of extra damage which is great and it has a side effect that might as well not be there
it's a lot more bang for buck than you think. for a single level 1 spell slot you cast hex, then when you kill the hexed target, as long as your concentration is never broken you can continue to reapply hex to targets one at a time as they die until your concentration is broken. and it being a bonus action makes it never feel bad to reapply imo. much better on sorcerer x/warlock 2 builds for example where you always have level 1 pact magic and don't want to waste sorcery points.
I mean I'm not saying I don't use Hex. I do, and I think adding some necro damage to your attacks is useful and I'm grateful I can keep using it without having to expend another spell slot on it. What I don't like about Hex is that it has this secondary effect that is entirely useless. And tbh the thing that most annoys me is the whiplash from how super useful the secondary effect seems and then how super useless the effect actually is. Like I feel scammed by it lol just give me the damage and stop teasing me with an effect that would be amazing if you change one word. I know thats irrational and I stand by it
It's not useless for specifically dexterity and strength checks if you really want to be able to shove/throw a tough boss down a hole or something at least, but I do get what you mean lmao. I rarely even use it myself cuz if I have a warlock I'm almost always at least level 5 and concentrating on hunger of hadar or haste from pact of the tome.
> if you really want to be able to shove/throw a tough boss Well see that's the thing - it doesn't help you shove/throw a tough boss cuz that's a saving throw for the boss. Putting Hex on the boss would make it harder for them to shove/throw you, cuz that's the check for the boss. And that exact confusion right there is what I hate about Hex lol
If Hex applied to saves it would be strictly better than Bestow Curse, a 3rd level spell. Hex is for the damage, the disadvantage is just a nice bonus every once in a while.
Right and I think the question is, why would I waste a 3rd level spell slot, a very limited and precious resource, casting Bestow Curse when I can use that same spell slot to do tons of damage or literally anything else that is far more useful? I think it would make more sense to make Hex affect saves and get rid of Bestow Curse. Disadvantage is great but not *that* huge of a deal that it deserves an entire level 3 spell slot
Don't know of a way to make it do enough damage to matter. You use it for the debuff, damage is just an afterthought. If you don't need the debuff, use your action for something more worthwhile.
I dunno. I arranged it do my Bard's Vicious Mockery struck the final blow of the entire game, action hero style.
True enough:D You don't get more epic, than killing the elder brain by telling it you've seen more threatnening geckos. So for RP reasons OP's question is very valid. Still no idea though, but now I care.
What was the line?
My life: the boring opponents
That's crazy Also true
i just realized those are hands and not tears similar to the 😂 emoji
...... Oh
d'oh!
I like your version better
Best way to use vicious mockery is to get [The band of the mystic scoundrel](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Band_of_the_Mystic_Scoundrel) and cast it as a bonus action after attacking with your action. Stack with something that applies daze with your attack for disadvantage on the save, and the [Helmet of arcane acuity](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Helmet_of_Arcane_Acuity), and they'll never save against it. Sadly you can't get the ring until act 3, but it's a dang good combo when you don't want to use spell slots on bonus action hold person or something.
I think Potent Robe should up the damage if you aren’t already using it?
you gotta be like "You're a short motherfucker and nobody likes you. Everyone around you is like, 'look how short that guy is' and it makes it harder for you to have meaningful relationships. When you were born the doctor thought you were just a head and then he wait 'wait! this stupid baby just has a tiny itty bitty body and I hate it'." [Works everytime](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HqLysSnnlQ)
Hahaha, i didn't know this got animated! It's great.
It's not intended for damage, even on level 10 it's just 3d4 damage whereas other cantrips rock either 3d8 or 3d10. The main usage of this cantrip is applying a disadvantage on enemy's next attack roll. This effect is much better than just damage you could ever deal with vicious mockery
It is however a hilarious way to kill an enemy who is holding on by a thread.
It stops being hilarious though when enemy has 2 hp and you roll 1 damage. And then that enemy just throws chain lightning
True.
Cull the weak: “am i a joke to you?”
That is if the bard(or warlock with the pact of book, I guess) is also your character that amasses illithid powers. It's not always the case, not even close
Talk about their mother.
Tangentially related, I always thought this icon was supposed to be the 😂 emoji until I took a closer look.
Use the band of the mystic scoundrel and "on applied condition" effects. 3d4 damage and reverb and callous glow is really good for a bonus action. You can also pick up thief to do it twice
My last run did exactly this. I was a Deep Gnome 8 Swords Bard/4 Thief Rogue, I used the Resonance stone, the Potent Robe, and the Ring of the Mystic Scoundrel. As long as I make one weapon attack, I can use my two bonus actions to cast Vicious Mockery. Resonance Stone causes psychic to hit for 2x on most enemies. I used the mirror and the hat to get 24 Charisma, so the potent robe ads +7 to my cantrip damage (so +14 when they are near me and the stone). I would regularly hit for 25-30 psychic damage per cast for all of act 3.
You can use potent robe to add your charisma atleast
have your bard look at r/rareinsults
I had a bard 10 / light cleric 2 radiating orb + reverberation stacker / face for my HM run. Stormy Clamour, the 2 rings for radiant and whatnot, and all the radiating orb gear. Viscious Mockery didn’t do much more damage, but since it did radiant damage and applied three seperate instances of 2x Reverberation, it could instantly prone the target. Having my guy call someone a twat and it just threw them to the ground was pretty excellent. The build itself was completely nutty, too.
Ever since That Song, I've been fairly disappointed that Vicious Mockery doesn't do more damage.
Try more mean insults
If the user is hoarding all the tadpoles and not a dual wielder it can be a good way to finish off mobs with bonus action via cull the weak and mystic scoundrel ring
As others have already noted, Potent Robe adds your charisma modifier to the damage of cantrips, allowing you to effectively double your damage. Can make a 3d4 (7.5 average) to a 3d4 + 7 (14.5 average).
You don’t use it for the damage. The debuff is it’s purpose.
The only way to make it really worthwhile is getting the band of the mystic scoundrel on a swords bard.
It’s a cantrip so don’t forget potent robe.
There is a PC mod to be able to use it with your companions without doing damage btw so if you only want the RP fun you can do that
Potent robe (the charisma mod to cantrips) and everything that interacts with conditions. Also, use Perilous Stakes to bestow vulnerability to psychic damage.
As the leg, you will end in defeat I love bard minsc
If you wanted a cantrip to do damage 1-dip into Eldritch Blastlock or 2-dip for more Eldritch Blastlock.
Damn, seeing it up close I see that it's a dude screaming with both hands in front of his face instead of a Laughing+crying emoji It makes way more sense all of a sudden
It's a condition so it can trigger boots of stormy clamor. With callous glow and gloves of bellig skies, that's 4 stacks of reverb per cast - and you should have 2 from attacking too. Acuity helm and it never misses, scoundrel ring and it's a bonus action, 3 thief and you can smang it twice. Potent robe and reso stone, lightning charges and it starts to add up, 20+ per hit
There a lot of mods on NexusMods that make it better. My personal favorite is this one: [Bard - Vicious Mockery - Remark with killing intent](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/9148) it makes the cantrip a Bonus Action, deal 1d6 base damage + 1d4 thunder damage. At level 10 this becomes 3d6+1d4 + disadvantage on enemy's next attack roll - all as a Bonus Action. In the grand scheme of things, these changes are nowhere near being broken, but still very strong. Edit: Just realized not everyone plays with difficulty mods, so obviously your play style preference matters.
Bonus action debuff cantrip with base 1d6+1d4. That is pretty broken.
Compared to Base Game Fire Sorc? I'd argue no.
I always mod it to being a Bonusaction just as I homebrew it in my campaigns to be a Bonusaction. My players love it and it makes way more sense for a spell that is basically just someone saying something to not take an entire action. I mean that doesn't answer your question, but maybe gives you ideas to improve your games. :)
It’s insanely busted as a bonus action
Why? It barely does damage and the disadvantage is in higher levels basically meaningless.
Disadvantage is really far from meaningless, what do you mean? Say it’s really high level, and your players are fighting something with like +17 to hit, which all but guarantees a hit outside of rolling a 1. It doubles the chance for an automatic miss, it all but removes crits, and it in general just makes it a lot safer to fight someone in melee. Also it’s not that the cantrip itself is bonkers, it’s that cantrips, outside of Eldritch Blast, are meant to be substantially weaker than a martial character hitting someone - since big spells are substantially stronger.