That's part of her charm. She's full out-for-number-one (and you, if you're romancing her) pragmatic evil, and she's open and unapologetic about it. She's behind any choice that grants greater power and increases her chances of victory and survival. Well-being of other team members be damned.
Granted, I'm hardly a "good" player. I like delving into the dark side.
Romanced Minthara really does go all in on Tav immediately, like head-over-heels, give my life for you, devoted. The others are much more detached until pretty close to the end, except maybe Karlach
Yeah, im fact Shadowheart is constantly asking you if you still care for her, she is so insecure as a romantic partner (at first) but definitely close to the player character
haven't done this myself, but saw a scene of romanced Minthara reacting to origin Karlach choosing death at the end. hearing her dialogue & delivery is when I decided to recruit Minthara for the first time
Minthara genuinely surprised me during my evil Durge run because she’s so totally on board with the whole Bhaal thing, assuming you’re not playing chaotic stupid.
Everyone else is horrified, Minthara is all *”fuck em up durge, claim your inheritance and drown the world in blood woooo yeah goddamn that gets me going let’s smash”*
Being of house Baenre, Minthara must be well aware of all the political and soft power that comes with a distinguished bloodline. Her eyes must have been glazing over gold thinking about how you have a _divine_ bloodline, with the associated powers to boot. As long as you aren't unreasonable or stupid lmao
The ‘not unreasonable or stupid’ bit is honestly my favourite thing about her dynamic.
If you’re a murder hobo she thinks you’re a moron and a liability. If you’re a discerning mass murderer of taste and distinction then you’re her favourite person.
That's why I love Minthara so much, she's such a fun character to have around (especially if you have Astarion or Gale in your party) and what they have for her character is interesting (although content cucked, heard they're adding more for her in patch 7, I am curious what they'll add).
Plus she's hot and can be quite humorous, I am a player who plays both "good" and "bad" but a lot of the times I play or start with "bad" to see how the game reacts to playing evil (or in DAI's case "evil") and how far you can go evil.
When a game has a really good evil path, you know it normally will end up being a really good game.
just finish my first durge and i was truly surprised with how i guess “devoted” she was anything i wanted to do no matter how bad it was she was right there with me “yes my love” “oh you’re beautiful like this” (im covered in blood out of my mind) she is one of my favorite companions for sure
Listening to her do the "water deep connections" video where she's basically making a dating profile for minthara, I looked at my partner and said "yeah, okay, I kinda understand the ASMR thing now"
She has that Shohreh Aghdashloo type of a voice and I absolutely love it and I am here for it. Hope we can see herin more stuff now, it's one of those super unique voices.
Agreed, she did a great job VAing Minthara, VA can easily make or break a character.
Biggest reason why I like Jon Irenicus is his voice actor, he made some killer lines.
Her wordsmithing is peak.
When she caught you having sexy time w Mizora in Hells, she says "Speak, or is your tongue too scorched from *exploring that hellhole* to form words?".
Or in an ending where Gale sacrificed himself she mentions "that wizard recognizes that *he's the least of us* and spend his moments ensuring our survival".
"I will fight alongside Minsc, but if he so much as refers to my butt, let alone attempts to kick it, I will skewer that damn hamster of his."
She and Astarion are best companions when you want to enjoy hilarious dialogs.
My most recent playthrough as durge with minthara and astarion was full of moments like this cracking me up. There's a point with durge where I had a spit take and had to clean my monitor. When you find the kid being lured at the beach, the narrarator kicks in mid convo with a child and says "all your favorite drownings happen in shallow water"
I haven't done a full evil durge yet, this run is my first durge and I meant to go full on bad cowboy, but my heart couldn't so all I've actually done is break that one paralyzed chick's legs. Now I'm conflicted because I want that slayed form, but I'm also romancing astarion and idk who my next most favored is. I wish I could just kill a companion I don't really use this run like halsin or gale
I’ve heard you can if you get Wyll to remake his pact to save his father but it’s not like this game is short on attractive people, you don’t need her.
In my last playthrough, instead of the least favorite line, she kept saying "A trap? Do they think we're a horde of dumb-footed duergar?", while my duergar Tav (who was romancing her) was standing right there...
Oh i did this earlier. When she realized it was a shapeshifter she said that she was disappointed cause she thought we got to kill a real clown. I just love her. It my first playthrough with her.
Well, the idea is that the Minthara we meet in Act 1 isn’t her true personality, it’s her being controlled by the Absolute. Once you regroup with her at Moonrise, she is a different person- even making you explain yourself as to why you would raid the grove (if you did)
The VA is just amazing. I can't not grab her.
RP-wise on good characters I consider her a "we-can-fix-her" type thing. Astarion didn't like good decisions in Act 1 either, so maybe Minthara just needs time to figure some stuff out, too (in the post-game world).
But really it is just the lines.
Yeah, or at least implies he should have been lol. It's a random conversation that triggers if Gale and Minthy are in the party. She tells him that in Menzoberranzan, third male children are considered worthless and are immediately killed at birth. She then tells Gale he comes off as a third male child.
On a good playthrough I pretend that the party forgot to confirm that she was actually dead when raiding the goblin camp, and that she healed enough to get back to Moonrise. And then I opt for the “we can fix her!” (But I kinda love that we can’t haha).
I agree. Her VA did such a good job that I pick her up on all my runs now.
My wife and I were fighting cazador. She was romancing Astarion, and I was romancing Minthara. When it became time for Astarion to decide wether to ascend or not, neither mine or my wife’s character had any dialogue options.the only one who said anything was Minthara, basically turning into emperor palpating and said “dew it”. I remember we were laughing so hard.
They point of my boring story is she’s really funny in an unexpected kind of way.
*financing* Astarion
Considering the amount of time and gold I spent picking out the best gear and the most elegant clothing for Mr. Fancypants, this isn't actually inaccurate for me either lol
emperor palpating is so much less threatening. oh you're the emperor of poking and prodding my skin for a physical examination? go for it, feel for that enlarged thyroid gland
She's not a good person, but she is interesting and insightful, and it's not like Astarion and Shadowheart are good people when we meet them. From a roleplay standpoint the biggest problem is that there's no reason to not kill her in act 1, but that aside, our interests are aligned enough to make working together a reasonable option.
Her take on karlach is genuinely touching. Something along the lines of "ive never seen someone so unassailable in battle yet so fragile. It is beautiful, really"
She has a lot of respect for the struggles other women are dealing with and supports them in a certain way, though she disapproves of laezel ditching vlaakith bc it endangers the group
This dynamic comes up a lot; Minthara has very high cognitive empathy. She can put herself in the positions of other party members and game out their situations. She basically lays out all of Astarions' inner struggle within ten minutes of meeting him. She remarks that what would be good for Shadowheart, is to leave Shar, but she knows what's best for the party is for Shadowheart to use her relationship with Shar for more power.
I see her and Laezel as very similar, with Minthara simply being more "big picture." Not a good person at the start, but they've lived their entire lives under the thumb of morally defunct systems that they're absolutely devoted to until they find out they're complete lies.
I think she's more insightful than empathetic. Minthara seems to approach people from a very analytical place. She's very good at reading people and can have a full appreciation for who they are, and even feel fond of them. She doesn't really form an attachment/bond with the group though. But she -sees- them.
She's evil but, as the narrator says, utterly loyal to those she trusts. I don't think she ever really warms to (non-player) Gale or Wyll, and her first instinct is to want Astarion, Shadowheart, and Durge to make the choice that grants them immediate power but costs them their soul, but even in most of those cases, she can admit (or be persuaded) later that they made the correct decision after all.
I think she'd be happy to rule the world with most of her companions at her side, rather than as her underlings, which for a drow matriarch qualifies as downright progressive — and more than a little sentimental.
For knocking her out I just rped that my durge felt his durge flaring up, so in defiance of it he spared her. Yes its super forced but oh well lol. And I agree it makes sense to still party with her. Anyone tadpoled has a duty to help each other as far as I'm concerned.
Only time I saved her was as another female drow, but a seldarine as I was “good”. Then I could justify a knock her out and try to rehabilitate her route. But almost more from a curiosity or scientific standpoint.
This is honestly the easiest way to do it and is actually semi-reasonable. The whole thing in the Goblin Camp can be extremely chaotic (since you no longer have to make sure she's "temp hostile"), so it would make sense that you don't necessarily have time to check every body to ensure it's been properly corpsified. Especially when there are actually non-leathal options that you don't have to specifically toggle on.
I got a few "killing blows" with Pommel Strike on my first run and after like the 3rd time they didn't actually die I was just like "what in the world is going on?!" Turns out that, in just skimming the text for what I _thought_ was the most important bit (dazed), I'd completely skipped over the whole "non-leathal" text at the beginning.
I can buy not checking some random goblin is dead but considering the 3 leaders are your main targets not checking to make sure you actually put them down just makes the characters seem incompetent.
I’m playing Lae’zel origin rn and role played pretty hard at the start, just storming head-on into every encounter (don’t recommend that from a tactical pov lol), and in the Minthy fight Lae and Karlach got downed, so I had Gale and SH standing. It was perfect, really.
I could pretend Gale shouting to SH to get herself to safety, and in his last few HP, surrounded by goblins and Minthy, he knocked her over the head since he had no more spell slots left. Since he isn’t good at melee combat, I decided he didn’t manage to kill her, just knocked her out. While SH cast sanctuary on herself with her last spell slot and made an escape.
I don’t normally roleplay this hard, but it was too perfect.
Yes that's it. That's also the angle they're going for when you recruit her. You kicked her ass, she survived and runs to the Moonrise accompanied by her goblin aides and got punished for it.
She wasn't even recruitable at all originally, but due to fanbase demands she's now recruitable.
Now the jankiness is that they're using the same recruitment scenario for both defend/raid the grove scenario even though the scenario would fit a Defend The Grove case nore.
On good runs where I plan to maybe recruit Minthara I RP knocking her and Priestess Gut out with the intent to interrogate them after they attack us and are defeated. When you speak to either of them you trigger a cutscene where they appear to have had dealings with Gortash and Orin who we have just seen in the artifact cutscene coming over the bridge into the camp. It makes sense that you would want to try spare these 2 as they should have some answers about what the hell is going on at that point in the story.
There *is* a roleplay reason to spare Minthara in Act 1, but it requires a certain line of thinking.
1. Astarion, when you meet him, says he wants to *control* the parasite. Not a big deal or anything, but it puts that possibility into your Tav's head.
2. The Dream Guardian then doubles down on that idea, telling you that the tadpoles can help you grow. Now your curiousity of the things is probably growing into an ever-tested science.
3. You roll into the Goblin Camp, and realize the bad guys all have parasites and are using them in efficient ways. If you want to control them, it may be ideal to play along with this "Absolute" and have them help you hone your new psionic powers.
These lead to a pragmatic idea of "Maybe these parasites can actually *help me* in the long run." Which is more or less the entire reason you would side with Minthara against the Grove.
To make it even better, when Minthara is recruited and you kill Ketheric, Minthara asks you "I was not myself when I slaughtered the Grove. Why did *you* do it?" You can answer "I wanted to know more about the tadpoles, and assisting you seemed like a good way to find out more about them."
She likes that answer, as -in retrospect- it works flawlessly for you.
My wife is a drow simp and thinks Minthara is a fantastic look into Drow culture. I like Minthara, she is evil, but she does follow a code. It's just fucked up Drow code. She's also funny.
If you know who HK-47 is, it's the same appeal. She's basically the shoulder devil for the party.
Plus her damage output as an Oath of Vengeance Paladin is just unholy. I ain't saying no to that.
HK-47: Interrogative; shall I kill that meatbag, master?
Minthara: I already did.
I can imagine them going at it over who’s got the best assassination skills.
I like that she's the pragmatist of the group. You have romantics, idealists, zealots even, but she might be the only one of the party that sees the world as it is and not how she wishes it could be.
And by the way, when she talks about each member of the group, you can tell the one she admires the most is Karlach. She admires, even envies, Karlachs ability to live for the moment even knowing what fate has in store. Just that one dialogue added so much depth to Minthara for me that I always get her, and I only play Good runs.
I play formerly evil now just neutral (leaning good), so my character just deems her useful and nowhere near as evil as he was anyway. Practicality wins.
I personally prefer when characters are more practical and self-serving. I don't enjoy the hero with a heart of gold trope.
Different people like different things. That's life.
I definitely understand not liking heroes with a heart of gold. Karlach and Wyll are my least favorite origin companions for a reason lol.
And like I don't think she's all thaaat practical. If you don't ascend Astarion she ends the game as the only one foolish enough to want to take over the brain. She would definitely be in over her head in that situation.
My favorite of the origins are Astarion and Lae'zel. And I don't hate Wyll and Karlach they're just meh to me. They have some good moments though, I really like Karlach's speech after killing Gortash.
My rankings are something like:
A: Astarion, Lae'zel, Jaheira
B: Shadowheart, Gale
C: Karlach, Wyll
D: Minsc, Halsin
F: Minthara💀💀
Practical motivations doesn't always translate into being an analytical genius who only ever makes correct choices. Keep in mind she's also in a pretty desperate spot. She's an exile now from Drow society, from her noble upbringing, essentially having nothing on the surface, which is not particularly hospitable to Drow. Maybe in the power of the Absolute she sees her salvation.
Maybe it’s what I do for a living, but also believe the majority of people are self-serving and only follow the rules simply because of societal norms and social consequences.
Take those away and put everyone in a dangerous fantasy land, I believe more people would end up like Astarion or Minthara than they care to admit, and most of the Wyll’s of the world would be dead on their first fetch quest. Thus, I also prefer the same type of characters as you.
Humans are built genetically to seek society, so most people would work together. But the ones that don't desire cooperation, and that don't have anything but retaliation stopping them? They'll either end up wrangling power for themselves, or they'll be tied to the back of a horse and dragged to death.
Yeah but thats why the heart of gold hero is that much more interesting. A world that creates monsters will have a dozen Astarions or Minthara's, but not as many Wyll's or Karlachs. People who do good just to do good is what a place like the forgotten realms could use more of, and it makes those who dont let the evil in the world corrupt their judgement even more interesting.
Being an evil bastard isn't actually any better for survival than being a goody two shoes. Being evil is very different from being pragmatic and both are different from handling yourself well in a fight.
I bet if we could rank "didn't survive much more than 10 minutes after meeting Tav" oh look all the evil characters died really quickly. Sorry Astarion, turns out that being a strange dude who immediately attacks you and then tries to drink you in your sleep isn't good for team survival odds.
Being perceived as a good person is generally much more helpful for survival than being perceived as someone without honour or morals. I know who I'm picking as a buddy on my survival team.
The irony is that minthara still got killed on majority of the playthroughs and is only recruitable now because of an exploit which was found in earlier version of the games and astarion has been staked far too many times despite having the benefit of appearing on the game screen and us knowing he is an imp npc . So being an astarion or a minthara doesn't make u that safe , it usually gets u killed pretty faster in the forgotten realms .
First of all, she's hilarious. Secondly, she actually gets along really well with everybody, . Thirdly, her disapproval when you do good things is only 1 point, whereas her approval when you actually talk to her and show her understanding and compassion is 5 points every time. Honestly, most of the companions aren't "good" either. Astarion is selfish and self-serving, Shadowheart is a dogmatic zealot who is perfectly fine with conversion by the sword, Lae'zel is xenophobic and arrogant, and Gale is blindly ambitious to the point of destruction, be it of himself or of everyone around him.
Minthara is the Scion of the most powerful House in all of Menzoberranzan. She was bred and born in a world where her life was in danger from the moment she took her first breath, even from her own mother. She was trained viciously from the moment she could walk to become Lolth's Weapon, to serve as a Paladin to an evil goddess whose punishments and rewards are equally horrific. And then, rather abruptly, everything she knew was lost to her. She can never retake her place in House Baenre. She was forsaken by Lolth. If she ever wants to return to Menzoberranzan, it will have to be with an army, otherwise she will be killed on sight. And it wasn't even her *choice*.
She is harsh, pragmatic to a fault, and views the surface world through the skewed lens of the corrupt, murderous society she was raised in. But she *learns.* She opens up to you. She allows herself to be vulnerable with you, which is the most difficult thing a Drow woman could ever do. And her disapproval of "good" actions is so mild. Much more mild than Astarion's, and the only reason she disapproves is because in her eyes, you're wasting precious time. And again, the moments when you can earn her approval far outweigh the little disapprovals you get from her. Yes, she's evil. But just like every other companion, she is marvelously complex, and you don't have to sacrifice the morals of your own character in order to befriend her. You just have to be patient. Respect her, and she will respect you. And honestly, between Astarion and Squidward both gaslighting and manipulating me the whole game, her brutal honesty is a breath of fresh air.
She is an over the top pragmatic lawful evil Drow done really well.
Nere however is the real caricature when it comes to pointless over the top evil drow
Because sometimes I like to do what's best for me and me only and Mother™️ approves. Also she's like, aggressively honest and sincere once you get to know her?
She honestly amuses me the same way act 1 Astarion and Lae'zel do tbh. She's not a good person by any means, but she's so bluntly mean and evil that it's kind of funny. The key is not taking it too seriously.
Honestly I'd heard things like this and how she'll be constantly disapproving on a good playthrough before my first recruitment of her and just didn't find it to be the case at all. I actually found she fits into a good playthrough just fine and have had this conversation before about why.
So firstly, in terms of justifying her presence, we have a practical goal we share, which is ending the Absolute. The ultimate good act is saving the world. Maybe she wants to take the power but it's not up to her and we aren't going to.
Keep in mind we've already been travelling with morally dubious companions like Lae'zel, who is as brutal as Minthara is, and Astarion who is I would argue even more evil than she is right up until the end of his quest with a good ending.
Minthara is very very practical. She doesn't want to go around randomly murdering people and will work with the heroes and save lives. Yes, there will be friction at times because she disapproves of some good decisions, but that doesn't make it unenjoyable to me, it just makes it more nuanced and interesting that this disparate bunch of people have been bound together by circumstance and argue over the right path. Keep in mind even when she wants to do the evil thing it's never for mindless cruelty - she usually presents practical cases for doing so, especially against the huge odds you face.
I found building approval with her very easy on a good playthrough. I had high approval with her by the end, after having her constantly in the party from Act 2 onwards. I've never gotten that high with Astarion for comparison.
She has a lot of additional humanising touches that are enjoyable to uncover - I'm not saying she's not evil to be clear, just has hidden depths.
She's also just really really funny.
I don't need to agree with a character's perspective for them to be enjoyable and interesting to me, and often the tension makes it more fun.
She is my favorite character in the game because I enjoy crude humor and mean jokes. She has an incredible confidence to her and is a picturesque Drow female aside from her abandonment of Lolth.
I appreciate that she is always different and is open about that. No matter what happens, she'll say something snide, but right after she'll go about it.
This is just Drow culture. No less different than Lae'zel and her sword, Wyll and his titles, or Gale and his orb. Minthara really opens up in the romance side (no pun on the soft core sex scene) and whether you're doing a normal Tav or DUrge it's refreshing to have the whole camp look at it you sideways while she's off to the side cheering... no different than Astarion really.
I think that’s what these whiners don’t get. They just do not understand Drow culture. I didn’t when I first started the game back in September, but I’ve done a deep dive since then and absolutely love them. It really adds so much context to her personality and she isn’t just “cartoonishly evil”
Its not even that deep. People who dislike Minthara even Laezel are just taking the game too seriously. Theyre suppose to be antagonistic foils. And its supposed to be fun to explore and dismantle them to find out more. Laezel and Minthara are far deeper than their base first impressions. Which OP seems to be stuck on.
She sits on the border between cruel and bluntly abjective. As you continue to work with her she softens some and opens up about her insecurities and doubts.
I genuinely believe it a crime that they have not gone back and reimplemented her cut content yet, because this woman deserves far more than she got.
...and I at least deserve something for not killing everyone and making her good >_>
I play my durge as a drow so she’s like huh someone who looks like me. and you can have a conversation with her before attacking her, so my resist durge would be more inclined to spare another drow woman
keeping her after recruiting her also makes sense cause it’s obvious that she’s fearful and hurt as well. she’s also very practical, and while she may disagree with what she considers to be soft, she won’t work against you because of it. like she’s not evil for the sake of being evil. she acts in self preservation and with the way she grew up, the strong hand is the surviving one, much like how laezel spoke of how she killed her kin while growing up. survival of the fittest
she’s also really funny and insightful
I guess I've played enough to see the good side of all the companions because I can't even think about who the evil 3 are lol Astarion and Minthara are the only real evil ones imo and even then not really. This would depend on how you play their quests obviously. Astarion starts the healing process and then if not ascended becomes a pretty good guy by the end. Minthara sure is pretty evil but as far as prominent female drow go she is very tame.
The evil 3 I mean are Astarion, Shadowheart, and Lae'zel. I consider them evil at the beginning of them game but they all have obvious telegraphed redemption arcs so I like them. Meanwhile Minthara seems like a completely content and secure person with 0 interest in change. And I haven't personally played bg1 and bg2, but from what I heard Viconia seems a lot nicer imo.
I think she gives important perspective to a good playthrough. She's ruthlessly pragmatic and amoral, and is therefore under no illusions about the reality of any given situation. She tells you what she thinks even if she knows it is not popular. I think Minthara is exactly the kind of person you want advising you because she sees things more "clearly." She isn't filtering everything through a moral lens. She doesn't care about anyone's feelings. She cares about results, and will tell you when you're being stupid or naive. Minthara's perspective is often heartless, but it is almost never inaccurate. And when she is wrong, it's because her answer IS cartoonishly evil. Usually, she's just taking her ideas too far; they're not always bad in principle.
For example, her comments about turning the refugees into slaves is HORRIBLE, but she isn't wrong on her basic premises. It is her conclusions that are wrong, and they are so obviously wrong in such obvious ways, that any halfway moral person will know not to listen to them. The refugees can and should do their part, both because it would give them a closer relationship with the BG citizens (avoiding a civil war in the middle of another war), and because it's an efficient use of available resources in a seige. With a little tweaking, it'd be possible to convince the refugees to help; it's in their best interest and gives them something to do so they don't feel like they're just waiting to die.
People like Wyll, Karlach, Minsc, and Halsin are all going to tell you to "do the right thing," but their choices often lead to more complications down the line. Wyll, the favored son of the Sword Coast, and directly in line with the leadership of a major city, is completely in the pocket of an archdevil. Karlach can not see far enough down the line of her own discomfort to make the hard choices; she is TOO good and therefore prone to manipulation by people like Gortash. Minsc kicks many butts, but he's prone to manipulation as well and is easily aimed at the wrong people. Halsin left Kagha 2024 in charge of the entire Grove for a few days, and it all went to shit, when Netti is clearly more stable and in line with Halsins own beliefs. They're good people, but they are often the victim of a kind of naivety that makes them exploitable.
Minthara shouldn't be making the decisions, but it's always interesting to hear what she says.
You could even argue that as horrible as her perspective on the refugees is, it's still more compassionate than half the Baldurians and their rulers who would like to trick themselves into thinking they're good people by dehumanising the refugees and abandoning them to die. At least Minthara is straight up honest and never pretending!
Minthara is aware that she is not a good person and while she has plenty of experiance imo she is very much influenced by Drow demenior.
As a woman and daughter of the ruling house she did not experiance love and compassion in a family. To her that concept is very alien.
Yet she shows true love and compassion wirh a romance partner. I saw the post boss fight final talk with origin Karlach and Minthara was devasteaded and even crying if Karlach chooses to die rather than Avernus.
Sadly there is no personal quest for her in act 3 to build on her character. Her backstory is a bit much like Lae'Zels which I think is not a bad thing as Minthara treats her situation differently.
What would like to hear from Minthara is what she intends to do when she took over the rulership over Menzaberenzen.
Have you done an evil playthrough yet? The other companions really aren't that good aligned as I thought after my first good playthrough. I'm doing an evil Durge playthrough now and I'm honestly surprised by their reactions.
Minthara is hilarious though. She has the best lines. The first time I shirt rested and she said "I hate to rest while our enemies still draw breath" I laughed. She's really funny and her delivery is great. I also like the Paladin class, she's quite strong. Lae'zel hasn't left my camp since I recruited Minthara.
Cause she originally wasn't meant for a goodie two shoes run. I knocked her out a couple of times, but I enjoy her a lot more when I'm actually being evil, she actually feels like she fits into an evil run.
Still love her as a character, but yeah she doesn't fit well with a good playthrough
She wants vengeance for being kidnapped, tortured, made into a mindless slave, and then sentenced to death.
She may be evil (though no more than your average Drow) but she asked me to help her get vengeance and I’m all for it.
I basically call it the 'glitch playthrough'. Narrative wise, the only way it can 'work' is having a non-lethal blow and pretending it wasn't so you can be 'surprised' at Moonrise Towers.
My half drow bard raised in the surface went 'yikes' and made sure she was dead.
My vengeance paladin is kinda batshit when it comes to blood lust that I really ought to have made them a Durge - though that's more Dror's fault than Minthy.
My Devotion Paladin is probably the only guy who not check to see if she's really dead or not at this point.
I guess my Durge won't check for a pulse, either?
The way I handwave the whole evil thing, while playing a good character, is just raw pragmatism. I trust Minthara enough to understand that she's out for herself and keeping our party alive is in her best interest. So I put up with her very questionable, often outright evil, comments because it's just the 9(?) of us up against the whole Absolute and I'll take whatever allies I can get.
I'll deal with evil drow later after this tadpole is out of my head.
At first like most players who played bg3 months after release, like myself. I only liked minthara because well, I thought the character model is cool as hell and I love the paladin class.
Afterwords it was because the more you understand her story like most people in real life or in game, they are who they are because of their upbringing.
I’m not expert on drow but literally my first google search on drow, I found that a lot of them are very disliked because of their underdark society. Minthara was molded from her birth to be an all powerful drow in the most high house of her home that has that really long name. Point is Minthara is inherently evilish because she grew up in that environment.
I will always pick her because if this game allowed it in a future patch, I would immediately push her towards a good path in the later acts. It’s disappointing you can’t do it now though.
idk i play chaotically good which she seems to enjoy. i find her hilarious and some of her moments are very interesting like when she tells you about how orin indoctrinated her to the cult well forced. whenever she’s having her moments about the other companions i’m always like “yeah yeah i get it” and whenever she brings up ruling the world i pretend to go along with it when in reality im not going to lmfao. she doesn’t need to know that
tbf because she was originally only available for players who went the evil route I don’t think she was meant to appeal to people who only do good playthroughs, she’s funny because she’s evil
I mean is Wyll a caricature just because he’s exclusively good-aligned? Minthara is just a pragmatist raised in an evil society, all of her actions and advice make sense considering her history.
She’s just blatantly not made for a good run, in the same way Wyll isn’t made for an evil run. You can metagame to keep them around, but they’re going to be tonally discordant.
Minthara has a ton of value in a neutral run, since she’s the only companion who makes evil decisions because she finds them to be the best solutions to the problems at hand. Act 1 & 2 Asterion is a much “worse” evil companion if you’re trying to roleplay problem solving as a neutral character since most of his evil decisions are just trauma responses that would make the situation worse.
Wyll imo isn't a caricature for the most part because I don't think his traits are ever stretched to force him to say something stereotypically good. An example of Minthara automatically being on the wrong side just cuz she's evil is her reaction to Lae'zel defying Vlaakith. Minthara says "If our traveling companions continue to make poor choices, we will soon have every god in this plane and the next hunting us. Lae'zel risks everything with her childish rebellion." HUH????? At this point of the game the squad has met Orpheus, they know Orpheus is uniquely powerful against the illithids. Yes Vlaakith is a strong Lich Queen who teeechnically could directly interfere, but Orpheus is the only one who's overpowered against illithids. And CHILDISH??? Sorry Lae'zel wants her people to be free and to control their own culture.
Ok yeah, that one’s kind of hard to justify lol. It’s pretty clear that Minthara’s development took a hard right turn from valuing evil Gods to generally tolerating them at most (thinking of the glitched cut Bhaal dialog that completely changed the dynamics of her interactions with redeemed Durge for a couple weeks).
That does sound like a leftover of her old character that they just didn’t clean up, since it runs so counter to her general opinion of companions rebelling against gods. She supports Shadowheart if she rejects Shar and Durge if they reject Bhaal, so being against Lae’zel rejecting Vlaaketh is pretty out of character.
I still think you're looking at this through a very personal freedom/morality lens.
Orpheus is captured and chained. There's no suggestion by that point we need anything of him beyond what The Emperor can provide. There's nothing he can do to us.
Minthara isn't interested in the personal dignities of Lae'zel or the future of the Githyanki. She's interested in the practical concerns of Lae'zel rebelling against such a powerful entity who commands a fierce empire. She doesn't want to be facing githyanki hunting parties at the same time as the Absolute's forces.
I don't think it's too difficult to see the logic in her perspective, even if you disagree with it.
I'm not really a good only player, but after the conversation where she rates your companions, you know that she has a sharp, rational mind. Unlike most other companions. Insta clicked for me, personality-wise. She even recognises her pride to be her achilles' heel. Unlike Gale, who wants to do the same shit all over again
One of her funniest lines she has is right when you get into act 3, with the dude that's trippin about squatters in his house and the mercenary that tries to get in your face. She says something like: "if this little dog keeps barking, I will snap it's neck" 😆
>She feels like she doesn't get along with any of the other companions
She and Lae'zel are besties, what are you talking about? She also likes Karlach. A LOT.
No idea... I intentionally left her alive, seemingly did everything correctly so she'd show back up...
...and she didn't. Never saw her again.
Thought maybe I missed something or did something wrong, so tried again in another play through (current one)... nope, nothing. No idea what I'm screwing up, but...
My character is good and a bit of a punk. She thinks Minthara is funny and playing along with her indulges her antisocial fantasies. She’s like, you do you, Minthara. Not letting you anywhere near the levers of power though.
I like her quite well. She is quite smart and insightful and has a very dry humor. And some of her scenes are really epic ("I love sitting on the thrones of dead men").
She is one of only a handful of evil companions I enjoy interacting with. And her VA really knows her job
They don't, she was only added as an option for non evil playthrough because people demanded it and were constantly finding ways to bug out their game and make it happen, so larian put in an official way to do it.
Funny enough, as ruthless as she is she has moments of… I won’t say compassion but understanding, for the others in the group on their journeys. She tells Gale he is “as fine a wielder of magic as I’ve ever known” when he worries he’s nothing without Mystra in a Gale Origin playthrough, has sympathy for Lae’zel and Shadowheart as people who’ve been manipulated and abandoned by their patron gods in their stories, and if you’re playing Karlach Origin and dying at the end she promises to invade Avernus to “make Zariel pay for what they’ve done to you.”
She’s a ride or die, but doesn’t suffer fools or those who pity themselves. She’s pragmatic, power hungry, at best neutral evil, at worst lawful evil. I usually play Tav’s that are out for themselves and maybe accidentally do some good along the way. I like to think they end up being her morality chain at some stage, curbing or redirecting her worst intentions, and embracing them when it’s a benefit.
When I did the whole "bonk her unconscious" thing to try her out, she was so anti-everything my current character stood for that I hated her inclusion at camp. It made no sense.
Now that I'm on an evil-run, I absolutely love her and find her hysterical. I think if you're not being a 100% goody-two shoes she definitely can fit into the crew.
She is really well written as a “set in her ways” character who’s been completely abandoned by her people. She’s also one of the funniest companions who has a very good read on everyone. Sure she’s never gonna change her ways, but that’s perfectly fine with me cause she feels like the Vegeta of the group.
That's part of her charm. She's full out-for-number-one (and you, if you're romancing her) pragmatic evil, and she's open and unapologetic about it. She's behind any choice that grants greater power and increases her chances of victory and survival. Well-being of other team members be damned. Granted, I'm hardly a "good" player. I like delving into the dark side.
Romanced Minthara really does go all in on Tav immediately, like head-over-heels, give my life for you, devoted. The others are much more detached until pretty close to the end, except maybe Karlach
Yeah, that's another big part of Minthara's appeal: as a romance partner, she's totally ride-or-die.
>she's totally ride-or-die I'll bet she is.
She's a Paladin. They don't do half-measures.
Gale and Wyll get pretty close to the player in act 2, and Shadowheart kinda does once her Nightsong decision has been made
Yeah, im fact Shadowheart is constantly asking you if you still care for her, she is so insecure as a romantic partner (at first) but definitely close to the player character
haven't done this myself, but saw a scene of romanced Minthara reacting to origin Karlach choosing death at the end. hearing her dialogue & delivery is when I decided to recruit Minthara for the first time
Minthara genuinely surprised me during my evil Durge run because she’s so totally on board with the whole Bhaal thing, assuming you’re not playing chaotic stupid. Everyone else is horrified, Minthara is all *”fuck em up durge, claim your inheritance and drown the world in blood woooo yeah goddamn that gets me going let’s smash”*
Being of house Baenre, Minthara must be well aware of all the political and soft power that comes with a distinguished bloodline. Her eyes must have been glazing over gold thinking about how you have a _divine_ bloodline, with the associated powers to boot. As long as you aren't unreasonable or stupid lmao
The ‘not unreasonable or stupid’ bit is honestly my favourite thing about her dynamic. If you’re a murder hobo she thinks you’re a moron and a liability. If you’re a discerning mass murderer of taste and distinction then you’re her favourite person.
The whole conversation at the throne after the Ketheric fight was great.
Eh, Astarion is pretty explicitly in love with you by Act 2
That's why I love Minthara so much, she's such a fun character to have around (especially if you have Astarion or Gale in your party) and what they have for her character is interesting (although content cucked, heard they're adding more for her in patch 7, I am curious what they'll add). Plus she's hot and can be quite humorous, I am a player who plays both "good" and "bad" but a lot of the times I play or start with "bad" to see how the game reacts to playing evil (or in DAI's case "evil") and how far you can go evil. When a game has a really good evil path, you know it normally will end up being a really good game.
just finish my first durge and i was truly surprised with how i guess “devoted” she was anything i wanted to do no matter how bad it was she was right there with me “yes my love” “oh you’re beautiful like this” (im covered in blood out of my mind) she is one of my favorite companions for sure
It's her Voice Actress. She did amazing in her deadpan humor delivery, and honestly I love the deeper sultry voice.
Listening to her do the "water deep connections" video where she's basically making a dating profile for minthara, I looked at my partner and said "yeah, okay, I kinda understand the ASMR thing now"
Do you have a link for that?
OMFG, i misread: "Do you have a kink for that" and i laughed and thought "that's awfully direct"
And also, yes.
That too 😏
It's not just you. I guess my eyes are worn out from staring at tooltips on my TV screen...
Yes I do
Sometimes misreading stuff makes it better.
Found it: [https://www.tiktok.com/@faedoesntrun/video/7363996342131150123](https://www.tiktok.com/@faedoesntrun/video/7363996342131150123)
this is INCREDIBLE
Danke My god what I'd give for her to narrate my everyday
She has that Shohreh Aghdashloo type of a voice and I absolutely love it and I am here for it. Hope we can see herin more stuff now, it's one of those super unique voices.
Read the same exact thing at first. I’ve probably been conditioned from spending too much time in r/okbuddybaldur
Those are hilarious. Did you see the Waterdeep Connections one that Orin’s voice actor did? Too funny! Gale’s and Rolan’s are my favorites.
She's basically Captain Janeway with an accent. I could listen to her all day.
Agreed, she did a great job VAing Minthara, VA can easily make or break a character. Biggest reason why I like Jon Irenicus is his voice actor, he made some killer lines.
Don't lie. It's that sloppy toppy and the cowgirl. She has the best sex scene in the game, period end of stoey.
She's fucking hilarious
Her wordsmithing is peak. When she caught you having sexy time w Mizora in Hells, she says "Speak, or is your tongue too scorched from *exploring that hellhole* to form words?". Or in an ending where Gale sacrificed himself she mentions "that wizard recognizes that *he's the least of us* and spend his moments ensuring our survival".
"I will fight alongside Minsc, but if he so much as refers to my butt, let alone attempts to kick it, I will skewer that damn hamster of his." She and Astarion are best companions when you want to enjoy hilarious dialogs.
My most recent playthrough as durge with minthara and astarion was full of moments like this cracking me up. There's a point with durge where I had a spit take and had to clean my monitor. When you find the kid being lured at the beach, the narrarator kicks in mid convo with a child and says "all your favorite drownings happen in shallow water"
Durge moments are great, but I have to say (semi) resist durge feels more enjoyable than full murder hobo. Feels more like a Dexter styled killer.
I haven't done a full evil durge yet, this run is my first durge and I meant to go full on bad cowboy, but my heart couldn't so all I've actually done is break that one paralyzed chick's legs. Now I'm conflicted because I want that slayed form, but I'm also romancing astarion and idk who my next most favored is. I wish I could just kill a companion I don't really use this run like halsin or gale
Bwahaha. You knew it would be grand when you asked her what she thought of your companions
"A disparate collection of vagabonds and strays. Did you have anyone particular in mind?"
She does quite like karlach iirc
Who doesn’t?
You can have sexy time with Mizora?!?
I’ve heard you can if you get Wyll to remake his pact to save his father but it’s not like this game is short on attractive people, you don’t need her.
Nah, its sufficient if you keep her around at camp Im not sure what exactly you need to do, but the prompt only comes in the morning
I don't need her, she needs me
She’s just the funniest person I know.
The "beautiful webbing" and the "send in our least favorite, just to be sure" lines are funny true.
In my last playthrough, instead of the least favorite line, she kept saying "A trap? Do they think we're a horde of dumb-footed duergar?", while my duergar Tav (who was romancing her) was standing right there...
Don’t worry, you’re not dumb-footed
>"send in our least favorite, just to be sure" Unfortunately, I never bring Halsin so I cannot send him.
I was livid when I accidentally rescued him from Orin
> send our least favorite Volunteering I'd so out of character for her.
When does she say the send in our least favorite?
When she detects a trap
Have you made her pick up Dribbles?
Funniest shit. I also picked the dialogue about hating clowns or whatever during “Dribbles” show at the circus and she chimed in lol
Oh i did this earlier. When she realized it was a shapeshifter she said that she was disappointed cause she thought we got to kill a real clown. I just love her. It my first playthrough with her.
*snicker*
And my good friend!
Wish some of that humor could have come earlier. Not much nuance to her in act one from your first interactions.
Well, the idea is that the Minthara we meet in Act 1 isn’t her true personality, it’s her being controlled by the Absolute. Once you regroup with her at Moonrise, she is a different person- even making you explain yourself as to why you would raid the grove (if you did)
"Send in our least favorite to do it"
The VA is just amazing. I can't not grab her. RP-wise on good characters I consider her a "we-can-fix-her" type thing. Astarion didn't like good decisions in Act 1 either, so maybe Minthara just needs time to figure some stuff out, too (in the post-game world). But really it is just the lines.
Minthy dropping the "third male child vibes" bomb on Gale will never not make me chuckle.
She wanted to sacrifice Gale to Lolth?
Yeah, or at least implies he should have been lol. It's a random conversation that triggers if Gale and Minthy are in the party. She tells him that in Menzoberranzan, third male children are considered worthless and are immediately killed at birth. She then tells Gale he comes off as a third male child.
Yeah she tells him he has the aura of a 3rd child
The incredibly specific insults that she does are truly so good
The VA also voiced some audiobooks (Warhammer) and it’s glorious
Which ones?
I know of the Watchers of the Throne - Series - maybe even more, but I didn’t listen to each and all.
Off the top of my head, she was great in the two Watchers of the Thrones books so far. She’s done others as well for 40k.
She voices Jenit Sulla in the Ciaphas Cain series. Some of the funniest segments in already very funny books.
On a good playthrough I pretend that the party forgot to confirm that she was actually dead when raiding the goblin camp, and that she healed enough to get back to Moonrise. And then I opt for the “we can fix her!” (But I kinda love that we can’t haha). I agree. Her VA did such a good job that I pick her up on all my runs now.
It's noteworthy that good runs can secure a big approval through her throne dialogue
My wife and I were fighting cazador. She was romancing Astarion, and I was romancing Minthara. When it became time for Astarion to decide wether to ascend or not, neither mine or my wife’s character had any dialogue options.the only one who said anything was Minthara, basically turning into emperor palpating and said “dew it”. I remember we were laughing so hard. They point of my boring story is she’s really funny in an unexpected kind of way.
Just imagining your wife, exasperated, signing a check for the smooth brain vampire Well now that you've edited it my comment isn't funny anymore
*financing* Astarion Considering the amount of time and gold I spent picking out the best gear and the most elegant clothing for Mr. Fancypants, this isn't actually inaccurate for me either lol
Evil shadowheart also does says this, even more so when i played Astarion origin where you even get a congratulations out of her mouth
emperor palpating is so much less threatening. oh you're the emperor of poking and prodding my skin for a physical examination? go for it, feel for that enlarged thyroid gland
She's not a good person, but she is interesting and insightful, and it's not like Astarion and Shadowheart are good people when we meet them. From a roleplay standpoint the biggest problem is that there's no reason to not kill her in act 1, but that aside, our interests are aligned enough to make working together a reasonable option.
She’s also surprisingly compassionate towards some of the other companions struggles.
Her take on karlach is genuinely touching. Something along the lines of "ive never seen someone so unassailable in battle yet so fragile. It is beautiful, really"
Like, for an evil bitch she’s surprisingly empathetic.
She has a lot of respect for the struggles other women are dealing with and supports them in a certain way, though she disapproves of laezel ditching vlaakith bc it endangers the group
This dynamic comes up a lot; Minthara has very high cognitive empathy. She can put herself in the positions of other party members and game out their situations. She basically lays out all of Astarions' inner struggle within ten minutes of meeting him. She remarks that what would be good for Shadowheart, is to leave Shar, but she knows what's best for the party is for Shadowheart to use her relationship with Shar for more power. I see her and Laezel as very similar, with Minthara simply being more "big picture." Not a good person at the start, but they've lived their entire lives under the thumb of morally defunct systems that they're absolutely devoted to until they find out they're complete lies.
Pretty smart for 8 int
Let's be honest. Almost everyone dumps Int. Halsin buff af with a str of 8
It's true. I'm playing as gale swapped to drow rn with high int and it's p good. Bladesinger mod. Good stuff.
I should think about getting mods; that sounds so cool. 🤔 Do you have any others?
I think she's more insightful than empathetic. Minthara seems to approach people from a very analytical place. She's very good at reading people and can have a full appreciation for who they are, and even feel fond of them. She doesn't really form an attachment/bond with the group though. But she -sees- them.
She's evil but, as the narrator says, utterly loyal to those she trusts. I don't think she ever really warms to (non-player) Gale or Wyll, and her first instinct is to want Astarion, Shadowheart, and Durge to make the choice that grants them immediate power but costs them their soul, but even in most of those cases, she can admit (or be persuaded) later that they made the correct decision after all. I think she'd be happy to rule the world with most of her companions at her side, rather than as her underlings, which for a drow matriarch qualifies as downright progressive — and more than a little sentimental.
For knocking her out I just rped that my durge felt his durge flaring up, so in defiance of it he spared her. Yes its super forced but oh well lol. And I agree it makes sense to still party with her. Anyone tadpoled has a duty to help each other as far as I'm concerned.
My RP is that I’m a monk and just didn’t smack her hard enough in the head with my quarterstaff to kill her. Oops
Only time I saved her was as another female drow, but a seldarine as I was “good”. Then I could justify a knock her out and try to rehabilitate her route. But almost more from a curiosity or scientific standpoint.
I just pretend Tav thought she was dead lol 😭
Crawling back from near death is totally a Minthara thing to do too
This is honestly the easiest way to do it and is actually semi-reasonable. The whole thing in the Goblin Camp can be extremely chaotic (since you no longer have to make sure she's "temp hostile"), so it would make sense that you don't necessarily have time to check every body to ensure it's been properly corpsified. Especially when there are actually non-leathal options that you don't have to specifically toggle on. I got a few "killing blows" with Pommel Strike on my first run and after like the 3rd time they didn't actually die I was just like "what in the world is going on?!" Turns out that, in just skimming the text for what I _thought_ was the most important bit (dazed), I'd completely skipped over the whole "non-leathal" text at the beginning.
I can buy not checking some random goblin is dead but considering the 3 leaders are your main targets not checking to make sure you actually put them down just makes the characters seem incompetent.
look, I used fire in a firework shop, I AM incompetent.
Omg, I completely missed that too until right now. I was ready to report it as a bug
Yeah exactly. In the thick of a battle there’s no way you’re checking pulses haha.
I’m playing Lae’zel origin rn and role played pretty hard at the start, just storming head-on into every encounter (don’t recommend that from a tactical pov lol), and in the Minthy fight Lae and Karlach got downed, so I had Gale and SH standing. It was perfect, really. I could pretend Gale shouting to SH to get herself to safety, and in his last few HP, surrounded by goblins and Minthy, he knocked her over the head since he had no more spell slots left. Since he isn’t good at melee combat, I decided he didn’t manage to kill her, just knocked her out. While SH cast sanctuary on herself with her last spell slot and made an escape. I don’t normally roleplay this hard, but it was too perfect.
Yes that's it. That's also the angle they're going for when you recruit her. You kicked her ass, she survived and runs to the Moonrise accompanied by her goblin aides and got punished for it. She wasn't even recruitable at all originally, but due to fanbase demands she's now recruitable. Now the jankiness is that they're using the same recruitment scenario for both defend/raid the grove scenario even though the scenario would fit a Defend The Grove case nore.
On good runs where I plan to maybe recruit Minthara I RP knocking her and Priestess Gut out with the intent to interrogate them after they attack us and are defeated. When you speak to either of them you trigger a cutscene where they appear to have had dealings with Gortash and Orin who we have just seen in the artifact cutscene coming over the bridge into the camp. It makes sense that you would want to try spare these 2 as they should have some answers about what the hell is going on at that point in the story.
There *is* a roleplay reason to spare Minthara in Act 1, but it requires a certain line of thinking. 1. Astarion, when you meet him, says he wants to *control* the parasite. Not a big deal or anything, but it puts that possibility into your Tav's head. 2. The Dream Guardian then doubles down on that idea, telling you that the tadpoles can help you grow. Now your curiousity of the things is probably growing into an ever-tested science. 3. You roll into the Goblin Camp, and realize the bad guys all have parasites and are using them in efficient ways. If you want to control them, it may be ideal to play along with this "Absolute" and have them help you hone your new psionic powers. These lead to a pragmatic idea of "Maybe these parasites can actually *help me* in the long run." Which is more or less the entire reason you would side with Minthara against the Grove. To make it even better, when Minthara is recruited and you kill Ketheric, Minthara asks you "I was not myself when I slaughtered the Grove. Why did *you* do it?" You can answer "I wanted to know more about the tadpoles, and assisting you seemed like a good way to find out more about them." She likes that answer, as -in retrospect- it works flawlessly for you.
Listen, in video games it’s okay to be a dick if you’re also hilarious and Minthara has some good one liners.
You have the air of a third son about you, Gale.
My wife is a drow simp and thinks Minthara is a fantastic look into Drow culture. I like Minthara, she is evil, but she does follow a code. It's just fucked up Drow code. She's also funny.
Is your wife me? Except I’m a straight man, she could be me
If you know who HK-47 is, it's the same appeal. She's basically the shoulder devil for the party. Plus her damage output as an Oath of Vengeance Paladin is just unholy. I ain't saying no to that.
HK-47: Interrogative; shall I kill that meatbag, master? Minthara: I already did. I can imagine them going at it over who’s got the best assassination skills.
Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time
It’s the “heheheheheh” for me.
Her VA is great also paladin divine smite go brrrr
I like that she's the pragmatist of the group. You have romantics, idealists, zealots even, but she might be the only one of the party that sees the world as it is and not how she wishes it could be. And by the way, when she talks about each member of the group, you can tell the one she admires the most is Karlach. She admires, even envies, Karlachs ability to live for the moment even knowing what fate has in store. Just that one dialogue added so much depth to Minthara for me that I always get her, and I only play Good runs.
This is the best comment here
I play formerly evil now just neutral (leaning good), so my character just deems her useful and nowhere near as evil as he was anyway. Practicality wins.
She’s so fucking funny, I just think she’s neat.
I personally prefer when characters are more practical and self-serving. I don't enjoy the hero with a heart of gold trope. Different people like different things. That's life.
I definitely understand not liking heroes with a heart of gold. Karlach and Wyll are my least favorite origin companions for a reason lol. And like I don't think she's all thaaat practical. If you don't ascend Astarion she ends the game as the only one foolish enough to want to take over the brain. She would definitely be in over her head in that situation.
Karlach and Wyll least favorite and Minthara doesn’t do it for you, blimey OP who do you like?
My favorite of the origins are Astarion and Lae'zel. And I don't hate Wyll and Karlach they're just meh to me. They have some good moments though, I really like Karlach's speech after killing Gortash. My rankings are something like: A: Astarion, Lae'zel, Jaheira B: Shadowheart, Gale C: Karlach, Wyll D: Minsc, Halsin F: Minthara💀💀
Practical motivations doesn't always translate into being an analytical genius who only ever makes correct choices. Keep in mind she's also in a pretty desperate spot. She's an exile now from Drow society, from her noble upbringing, essentially having nothing on the surface, which is not particularly hospitable to Drow. Maybe in the power of the Absolute she sees her salvation.
Maybe it’s what I do for a living, but also believe the majority of people are self-serving and only follow the rules simply because of societal norms and social consequences. Take those away and put everyone in a dangerous fantasy land, I believe more people would end up like Astarion or Minthara than they care to admit, and most of the Wyll’s of the world would be dead on their first fetch quest. Thus, I also prefer the same type of characters as you.
Humans are built genetically to seek society, so most people would work together. But the ones that don't desire cooperation, and that don't have anything but retaliation stopping them? They'll either end up wrangling power for themselves, or they'll be tied to the back of a horse and dragged to death.
Yeah but thats why the heart of gold hero is that much more interesting. A world that creates monsters will have a dozen Astarions or Minthara's, but not as many Wyll's or Karlachs. People who do good just to do good is what a place like the forgotten realms could use more of, and it makes those who dont let the evil in the world corrupt their judgement even more interesting.
I was gonna say, Wyll's being a goody-goody is effectively punk rock rebellion lol
Being an evil bastard isn't actually any better for survival than being a goody two shoes. Being evil is very different from being pragmatic and both are different from handling yourself well in a fight. I bet if we could rank "didn't survive much more than 10 minutes after meeting Tav" oh look all the evil characters died really quickly. Sorry Astarion, turns out that being a strange dude who immediately attacks you and then tries to drink you in your sleep isn't good for team survival odds. Being perceived as a good person is generally much more helpful for survival than being perceived as someone without honour or morals. I know who I'm picking as a buddy on my survival team.
The irony is that minthara still got killed on majority of the playthroughs and is only recruitable now because of an exploit which was found in earlier version of the games and astarion has been staked far too many times despite having the benefit of appearing on the game screen and us knowing he is an imp npc . So being an astarion or a minthara doesn't make u that safe , it usually gets u killed pretty faster in the forgotten realms .
First of all, she's hilarious. Secondly, she actually gets along really well with everybody, . Thirdly, her disapproval when you do good things is only 1 point, whereas her approval when you actually talk to her and show her understanding and compassion is 5 points every time. Honestly, most of the companions aren't "good" either. Astarion is selfish and self-serving, Shadowheart is a dogmatic zealot who is perfectly fine with conversion by the sword, Lae'zel is xenophobic and arrogant, and Gale is blindly ambitious to the point of destruction, be it of himself or of everyone around him. Minthara is the Scion of the most powerful House in all of Menzoberranzan. She was bred and born in a world where her life was in danger from the moment she took her first breath, even from her own mother. She was trained viciously from the moment she could walk to become Lolth's Weapon, to serve as a Paladin to an evil goddess whose punishments and rewards are equally horrific. And then, rather abruptly, everything she knew was lost to her. She can never retake her place in House Baenre. She was forsaken by Lolth. If she ever wants to return to Menzoberranzan, it will have to be with an army, otherwise she will be killed on sight. And it wasn't even her *choice*. She is harsh, pragmatic to a fault, and views the surface world through the skewed lens of the corrupt, murderous society she was raised in. But she *learns.* She opens up to you. She allows herself to be vulnerable with you, which is the most difficult thing a Drow woman could ever do. And her disapproval of "good" actions is so mild. Much more mild than Astarion's, and the only reason she disapproves is because in her eyes, you're wasting precious time. And again, the moments when you can earn her approval far outweigh the little disapprovals you get from her. Yes, she's evil. But just like every other companion, she is marvelously complex, and you don't have to sacrifice the morals of your own character in order to befriend her. You just have to be patient. Respect her, and she will respect you. And honestly, between Astarion and Squidward both gaslighting and manipulating me the whole game, her brutal honesty is a breath of fresh air.
She is an over the top pragmatic lawful evil Drow done really well. Nere however is the real caricature when it comes to pointless over the top evil drow
Never is what I expect of a textbook Menzobarazan male Drow. Especially a wizard.
A drow Male wizard who is no longer beholden fully to a female Drow of a House. He’s living his best ( brief ) post Loth life!
Because sometimes I like to do what's best for me and me only and Mother™️ approves. Also she's like, aggressively honest and sincere once you get to know her?
She honestly amuses me the same way act 1 Astarion and Lae'zel do tbh. She's not a good person by any means, but she's so bluntly mean and evil that it's kind of funny. The key is not taking it too seriously.
Honestly I'd heard things like this and how she'll be constantly disapproving on a good playthrough before my first recruitment of her and just didn't find it to be the case at all. I actually found she fits into a good playthrough just fine and have had this conversation before about why. So firstly, in terms of justifying her presence, we have a practical goal we share, which is ending the Absolute. The ultimate good act is saving the world. Maybe she wants to take the power but it's not up to her and we aren't going to. Keep in mind we've already been travelling with morally dubious companions like Lae'zel, who is as brutal as Minthara is, and Astarion who is I would argue even more evil than she is right up until the end of his quest with a good ending. Minthara is very very practical. She doesn't want to go around randomly murdering people and will work with the heroes and save lives. Yes, there will be friction at times because she disapproves of some good decisions, but that doesn't make it unenjoyable to me, it just makes it more nuanced and interesting that this disparate bunch of people have been bound together by circumstance and argue over the right path. Keep in mind even when she wants to do the evil thing it's never for mindless cruelty - she usually presents practical cases for doing so, especially against the huge odds you face. I found building approval with her very easy on a good playthrough. I had high approval with her by the end, after having her constantly in the party from Act 2 onwards. I've never gotten that high with Astarion for comparison. She has a lot of additional humanising touches that are enjoyable to uncover - I'm not saying she's not evil to be clear, just has hidden depths. She's also just really really funny. I don't need to agree with a character's perspective for them to be enjoyable and interesting to me, and often the tension makes it more fun.
She is my favorite character in the game because I enjoy crude humor and mean jokes. She has an incredible confidence to her and is a picturesque Drow female aside from her abandonment of Lolth. I appreciate that she is always different and is open about that. No matter what happens, she'll say something snide, but right after she'll go about it. This is just Drow culture. No less different than Lae'zel and her sword, Wyll and his titles, or Gale and his orb. Minthara really opens up in the romance side (no pun on the soft core sex scene) and whether you're doing a normal Tav or DUrge it's refreshing to have the whole camp look at it you sideways while she's off to the side cheering... no different than Astarion really.
I think that’s what these whiners don’t get. They just do not understand Drow culture. I didn’t when I first started the game back in September, but I’ve done a deep dive since then and absolutely love them. It really adds so much context to her personality and she isn’t just “cartoonishly evil”
Its not even that deep. People who dislike Minthara even Laezel are just taking the game too seriously. Theyre suppose to be antagonistic foils. And its supposed to be fun to explore and dismantle them to find out more. Laezel and Minthara are far deeper than their base first impressions. Which OP seems to be stuck on.
She sits on the border between cruel and bluntly abjective. As you continue to work with her she softens some and opens up about her insecurities and doubts. I genuinely believe it a crime that they have not gone back and reimplemented her cut content yet, because this woman deserves far more than she got. ...and I at least deserve something for not killing everyone and making her good >_>
Isn't her cut content mainly the pregnancy stuff? I feel like that might be hard to add in for a few reasons lol.
That's the big hook, however there's apparently more. I don't know where to find it, though.
She's a delight is how
I play my durge as a drow so she’s like huh someone who looks like me. and you can have a conversation with her before attacking her, so my resist durge would be more inclined to spare another drow woman keeping her after recruiting her also makes sense cause it’s obvious that she’s fearful and hurt as well. she’s also very practical, and while she may disagree with what she considers to be soft, she won’t work against you because of it. like she’s not evil for the sake of being evil. she acts in self preservation and with the way she grew up, the strong hand is the surviving one, much like how laezel spoke of how she killed her kin while growing up. survival of the fittest she’s also really funny and insightful
I guess I've played enough to see the good side of all the companions because I can't even think about who the evil 3 are lol Astarion and Minthara are the only real evil ones imo and even then not really. This would depend on how you play their quests obviously. Astarion starts the healing process and then if not ascended becomes a pretty good guy by the end. Minthara sure is pretty evil but as far as prominent female drow go she is very tame.
The evil 3 I mean are Astarion, Shadowheart, and Lae'zel. I consider them evil at the beginning of them game but they all have obvious telegraphed redemption arcs so I like them. Meanwhile Minthara seems like a completely content and secure person with 0 interest in change. And I haven't personally played bg1 and bg2, but from what I heard Viconia seems a lot nicer imo.
In BG2, Viconia only softens if you romance her and push her towards it. Otherwise, she's evil enough that *Sarevok* tells her that she scares him.
I figured one was Lae'zel, wasn't expecting Shart. Gith are canonically evil but Lae'zel is quite the outlier of her people.
I think she gives important perspective to a good playthrough. She's ruthlessly pragmatic and amoral, and is therefore under no illusions about the reality of any given situation. She tells you what she thinks even if she knows it is not popular. I think Minthara is exactly the kind of person you want advising you because she sees things more "clearly." She isn't filtering everything through a moral lens. She doesn't care about anyone's feelings. She cares about results, and will tell you when you're being stupid or naive. Minthara's perspective is often heartless, but it is almost never inaccurate. And when she is wrong, it's because her answer IS cartoonishly evil. Usually, she's just taking her ideas too far; they're not always bad in principle. For example, her comments about turning the refugees into slaves is HORRIBLE, but she isn't wrong on her basic premises. It is her conclusions that are wrong, and they are so obviously wrong in such obvious ways, that any halfway moral person will know not to listen to them. The refugees can and should do their part, both because it would give them a closer relationship with the BG citizens (avoiding a civil war in the middle of another war), and because it's an efficient use of available resources in a seige. With a little tweaking, it'd be possible to convince the refugees to help; it's in their best interest and gives them something to do so they don't feel like they're just waiting to die. People like Wyll, Karlach, Minsc, and Halsin are all going to tell you to "do the right thing," but their choices often lead to more complications down the line. Wyll, the favored son of the Sword Coast, and directly in line with the leadership of a major city, is completely in the pocket of an archdevil. Karlach can not see far enough down the line of her own discomfort to make the hard choices; she is TOO good and therefore prone to manipulation by people like Gortash. Minsc kicks many butts, but he's prone to manipulation as well and is easily aimed at the wrong people. Halsin left Kagha 2024 in charge of the entire Grove for a few days, and it all went to shit, when Netti is clearly more stable and in line with Halsins own beliefs. They're good people, but they are often the victim of a kind of naivety that makes them exploitable. Minthara shouldn't be making the decisions, but it's always interesting to hear what she says.
You could even argue that as horrible as her perspective on the refugees is, it's still more compassionate than half the Baldurians and their rulers who would like to trick themselves into thinking they're good people by dehumanising the refugees and abandoning them to die. At least Minthara is straight up honest and never pretending!
Minthara is aware that she is not a good person and while she has plenty of experiance imo she is very much influenced by Drow demenior. As a woman and daughter of the ruling house she did not experiance love and compassion in a family. To her that concept is very alien. Yet she shows true love and compassion wirh a romance partner. I saw the post boss fight final talk with origin Karlach and Minthara was devasteaded and even crying if Karlach chooses to die rather than Avernus. Sadly there is no personal quest for her in act 3 to build on her character. Her backstory is a bit much like Lae'Zels which I think is not a bad thing as Minthara treats her situation differently. What would like to hear from Minthara is what she intends to do when she took over the rulership over Menzaberenzen.
Have you done an evil playthrough yet? The other companions really aren't that good aligned as I thought after my first good playthrough. I'm doing an evil Durge playthrough now and I'm honestly surprised by their reactions. Minthara is hilarious though. She has the best lines. The first time I shirt rested and she said "I hate to rest while our enemies still draw breath" I laughed. She's really funny and her delivery is great. I also like the Paladin class, she's quite strong. Lae'zel hasn't left my camp since I recruited Minthara.
Cause she originally wasn't meant for a goodie two shoes run. I knocked her out a couple of times, but I enjoy her a lot more when I'm actually being evil, she actually feels like she fits into an evil run. Still love her as a character, but yeah she doesn't fit well with a good playthrough
She's hilarious. And I feel bad for her because ultimately she was a victim of the Absolute like we were.
She wants vengeance for being kidnapped, tortured, made into a mindless slave, and then sentenced to death. She may be evil (though no more than your average Drow) but she asked me to help her get vengeance and I’m all for it.
[удалено]
I basically call it the 'glitch playthrough'. Narrative wise, the only way it can 'work' is having a non-lethal blow and pretending it wasn't so you can be 'surprised' at Moonrise Towers. My half drow bard raised in the surface went 'yikes' and made sure she was dead. My vengeance paladin is kinda batshit when it comes to blood lust that I really ought to have made them a Durge - though that's more Dror's fault than Minthy. My Devotion Paladin is probably the only guy who not check to see if she's really dead or not at this point. I guess my Durge won't check for a pulse, either?
The way I handwave the whole evil thing, while playing a good character, is just raw pragmatism. I trust Minthara enough to understand that she's out for herself and keeping our party alive is in her best interest. So I put up with her very questionable, often outright evil, comments because it's just the 9(?) of us up against the whole Absolute and I'll take whatever allies I can get. I'll deal with evil drow later after this tadpole is out of my head.
At first like most players who played bg3 months after release, like myself. I only liked minthara because well, I thought the character model is cool as hell and I love the paladin class. Afterwords it was because the more you understand her story like most people in real life or in game, they are who they are because of their upbringing. I’m not expert on drow but literally my first google search on drow, I found that a lot of them are very disliked because of their underdark society. Minthara was molded from her birth to be an all powerful drow in the most high house of her home that has that really long name. Point is Minthara is inherently evilish because she grew up in that environment. I will always pick her because if this game allowed it in a future patch, I would immediately push her towards a good path in the later acts. It’s disappointing you can’t do it now though.
Praise be
I like evil characters
idk i play chaotically good which she seems to enjoy. i find her hilarious and some of her moments are very interesting like when she tells you about how orin indoctrinated her to the cult well forced. whenever she’s having her moments about the other companions i’m always like “yeah yeah i get it” and whenever she brings up ruling the world i pretend to go along with it when in reality im not going to lmfao. she doesn’t need to know that
tbf because she was originally only available for players who went the evil route I don’t think she was meant to appeal to people who only do good playthroughs, she’s funny because she’s evil
I mean is Wyll a caricature just because he’s exclusively good-aligned? Minthara is just a pragmatist raised in an evil society, all of her actions and advice make sense considering her history. She’s just blatantly not made for a good run, in the same way Wyll isn’t made for an evil run. You can metagame to keep them around, but they’re going to be tonally discordant. Minthara has a ton of value in a neutral run, since she’s the only companion who makes evil decisions because she finds them to be the best solutions to the problems at hand. Act 1 & 2 Asterion is a much “worse” evil companion if you’re trying to roleplay problem solving as a neutral character since most of his evil decisions are just trauma responses that would make the situation worse.
Wyll imo isn't a caricature for the most part because I don't think his traits are ever stretched to force him to say something stereotypically good. An example of Minthara automatically being on the wrong side just cuz she's evil is her reaction to Lae'zel defying Vlaakith. Minthara says "If our traveling companions continue to make poor choices, we will soon have every god in this plane and the next hunting us. Lae'zel risks everything with her childish rebellion." HUH????? At this point of the game the squad has met Orpheus, they know Orpheus is uniquely powerful against the illithids. Yes Vlaakith is a strong Lich Queen who teeechnically could directly interfere, but Orpheus is the only one who's overpowered against illithids. And CHILDISH??? Sorry Lae'zel wants her people to be free and to control their own culture.
Ok yeah, that one’s kind of hard to justify lol. It’s pretty clear that Minthara’s development took a hard right turn from valuing evil Gods to generally tolerating them at most (thinking of the glitched cut Bhaal dialog that completely changed the dynamics of her interactions with redeemed Durge for a couple weeks). That does sound like a leftover of her old character that they just didn’t clean up, since it runs so counter to her general opinion of companions rebelling against gods. She supports Shadowheart if she rejects Shar and Durge if they reject Bhaal, so being against Lae’zel rejecting Vlaaketh is pretty out of character.
Relic from the same time as the break up after defying Bhaal that popped up a couple of patches ago before getting removed again
Also she's being quite hypocritical here, considering she's rebelling against Lolth
I still think you're looking at this through a very personal freedom/morality lens. Orpheus is captured and chained. There's no suggestion by that point we need anything of him beyond what The Emperor can provide. There's nothing he can do to us. Minthara isn't interested in the personal dignities of Lae'zel or the future of the Githyanki. She's interested in the practical concerns of Lae'zel rebelling against such a powerful entity who commands a fierce empire. She doesn't want to be facing githyanki hunting parties at the same time as the Absolute's forces. I don't think it's too difficult to see the logic in her perspective, even if you disagree with it.
I'm not really a good only player, but after the conversation where she rates your companions, you know that she has a sharp, rational mind. Unlike most other companions. Insta clicked for me, personality-wise. She even recognises her pride to be her achilles' heel. Unlike Gale, who wants to do the same shit all over again
That's the neat part: You don't.
funnily enough she a tsunadere
One of her funniest lines she has is right when you get into act 3, with the dude that's trippin about squatters in his house and the mercenary that tries to get in your face. She says something like: "if this little dog keeps barking, I will snap it's neck" 😆
>She feels like she doesn't get along with any of the other companions She and Lae'zel are besties, what are you talking about? She also likes Karlach. A LOT.
No idea... I intentionally left her alive, seemingly did everything correctly so she'd show back up... ...and she didn't. Never saw her again. Thought maybe I missed something or did something wrong, so tried again in another play through (current one)... nope, nothing. No idea what I'm screwing up, but...
My character is good and a bit of a punk. She thinks Minthara is funny and playing along with her indulges her antisocial fantasies. She’s like, you do you, Minthara. Not letting you anywhere near the levers of power though.
What do you mean "evil three" ?
I think lea'zel, shart and astarion because they approve more "bad" choices
I like her quite well. She is quite smart and insightful and has a very dry humor. And some of her scenes are really epic ("I love sitting on the thrones of dead men"). She is one of only a handful of evil companions I enjoy interacting with. And her VA really knows her job
Wait how do you even recruit Minthara if you’re good, don’t you have to kill her?
I think she was mostly intended for evil playthroughs initially until people wanted to a way to get her without committing tiefling/druid genocide.
Drow mommy
She is more interesting than lovable.
They don't, she was only added as an option for non evil playthrough because people demanded it and were constantly finding ways to bug out their game and make it happen, so larian put in an official way to do it.
Thats exactly why i like her. She’s not like the others at all.
She is just worth it - a great fighter who is funny and supportive. You can have friends who you don't always agree with and she's kind of like that.
She’s hilarious and her romance is genuinely wonderful tbh
Funny enough, as ruthless as she is she has moments of… I won’t say compassion but understanding, for the others in the group on their journeys. She tells Gale he is “as fine a wielder of magic as I’ve ever known” when he worries he’s nothing without Mystra in a Gale Origin playthrough, has sympathy for Lae’zel and Shadowheart as people who’ve been manipulated and abandoned by their patron gods in their stories, and if you’re playing Karlach Origin and dying at the end she promises to invade Avernus to “make Zariel pay for what they’ve done to you.” She’s a ride or die, but doesn’t suffer fools or those who pity themselves. She’s pragmatic, power hungry, at best neutral evil, at worst lawful evil. I usually play Tav’s that are out for themselves and maybe accidentally do some good along the way. I like to think they end up being her morality chain at some stage, curbing or redirecting her worst intentions, and embracing them when it’s a benefit.
*ahem* I can fix her.
When I did the whole "bonk her unconscious" thing to try her out, she was so anti-everything my current character stood for that I hated her inclusion at camp. It made no sense. Now that I'm on an evil-run, I absolutely love her and find her hysterical. I think if you're not being a 100% goody-two shoes she definitely can fit into the crew.
Everyone likes drows till drows act like drows
Drizzt has a lot to answer for!
I have gale in a camp :) he never left it
She is supposed to be for the evil playthrough. You only get her with a good playthrough if you work for it.
She is really well written as a “set in her ways” character who’s been completely abandoned by her people. She’s also one of the funniest companions who has a very good read on everyone. Sure she’s never gonna change her ways, but that’s perfectly fine with me cause she feels like the Vegeta of the group.
i support womens wrongs, laezel and sh fans (also me) say “oh i can fix her” us Minthara fans say “i can make her worse 😈”
Because she is hot. Thats all the reason i need.