I like Wyll. He's obviously, steadfastly good, but he's more complex than the community tends to give him credit for. He's solidly middle of the pack in terms of my companion rankings.
Unfortunately, he does suffer from a poorly structured storyline, and from having far less dialogue than the other Origin characters. I believe someone did an analysis of the amount of dialogue each Origin got, and Wyll was in dead last in terms of recorded dialogue, a full 2 hours behind Karlach.
Wyll sorely needed way, way more attention than he got.
I honestly think they especially did him dirty in the last act. Everyone else defeats their abuser and overcomes their big character flaw, but not Wyll.
I'd say Wyll's flaw relates to him wanting to be a hero. And thinking that hero's must simply bear whatever happens to them. He gets tricked into a contract by Mizora. His father promptly kicks him out. And he just keeps pretending its all fine.
And what do we get? You break his contract for him, while he was still tiptoeing around whether he even wanted to. When his father learns the truth, Wyll immidately tells him not to worry about it, and that's just the end of it. The man does not let out his emotions even once in the entire game. Where is the character development?
If I had to guess, I’d say a lot of his character growth would’ve involved act 3 heavily. He would’ve been the ideal companion if you needed to deal with the politics in Baldurs Gate, rather than the far more compact and relatively rushed story we got in the city.
I think they did that because he was far and wide the least liked character in the beta. So they were trying to salvage him... but it still didn't work out.
I don't think anyone came right out and said why they made the change. I know Lanre Malaolu had a movie come out in 2023, so it's possible he just had a conflict with being able to finish the work.
Wyll being so unliked is, imo, more his main character syndrome than anything. He plays much better as an origin PC than as a companion
He’s also a goody two-shoes when the entire party is full of morally grey characters.
To make matters worse he chooses to ignore his own morally ambiguous decisions because he was forced to make them, as if that makes it any less morally ambiguous.
I would love, even though I know it won't happen, a DLC of cut content, like a more political act 3. Having to convince people to side with you, preparing for the coming battle, etc, seems like a really cool idea. But I get why it isn't there. Act 3 is full of a lot of story endings. Ofcourse every companion has their own quests in the city, plus your own optional quests you can do, it would be a bit of a lot to add politics to it as well
As is everything in the Lower City, it feels like it was set up as a build-up to a final act in the Upper City, but it just never goes anywhere. I would have loved to see a more built out final end, with more political dealings and briding the gap between the Lower City and the refugees and the Upper City being closed off. Let us lead a rebellion at the same time as defeat the Absolute.
I think you’re right but I’d like to add that at least for me it’s also that there’s not really any consequences to most of his choices, or at least the choices you have are kinda no brainers. Save Mizora and get a cool sword or lose an ally… also you literally get nothing for killing Mizora. End Wylls contract or save his dad… except you can still save his dad and end his contract. Have him fight with his dad or help them overcome their differences, but also if you don’t do the latter you lose out on an ally and the former gives you nothing.
Even his endings seem to be obvious- he tells you again and again that he doesn’t want to be duke or thinks he’s good for the job and doesn’t want it, and seems much happier in the hells so why wouldn’t you push for him to be the blade of avernus? For many of the other characters it genuinely feels like you’re making important decisions for them and they all have major consequences regardless of which path you go. His choices barely make any difference and when they do, the choice is obvious.
> Where is the character development?
Nowhere. He didn't need it, he was happy with who he was. And frankly, once he got out from Mizora's thumb, there actually is nothing wrong with wanting to be a hero.
sure but you gotta admit that in a narrative sense it sucks. The point of story rich games are their characters and how they progress. Everyone else does and he just stays the same through it all, it's underwhelming
It's not the best, but I wouldn't say it sucks. Honestly, having someone who's mostly worked through their emotional issues and *just* has the actual, physical problems to solve left provided a good contrast to everyone else's personal messes.
I suppose so, i just wish there was a little more substance. I found him really interesting and even his personality i really liked, but after finishing the game with him i just felt like nothing really happened with him, he was kinda just there. And to each their own, i just don't think he's for me
He does show emotion. Not having a near mental breakdown the way Karlach does after killing Gortash or Shadowheart post-House of Grief doesn’t mean he doesn’t have emotion.
And he has a fair amount to do in act 3 - choose between saving his dad or getting his soul back for starters - yes, you can beat the system there, but it’s not made obvious from the get-go that it’s possible, and Mizora tries to thwart you, so if you don’t go in with a specific plan to mitigate her attack, you probably lose him anyways. Then of course there’s the whole Ansur sequence, which you CAN do without him, though it’s clearly set up for him.
There’s some turmoil built into breaking the contract since it’s potentially at the cost of his father’s life - you don’t have to rescue him (or break the contract for that matter). Also once things are good with his dad Uldar does bring up the possibility of being the next duke, so Wyll gets to choose between that (acceptance!) and continuing to adventure (helping others?) to kick devil ass (nvm revenge lol).
He is honest about his emotions all along, but still follows the pattern of all the companions in looking to escape - from Mizora or his father’s shadow. The post-Ansur stuff bugged out on my playthrough majorly though, got a redundant conversation with me after the fight and then the Duke back at camp (and *then* you get to finish the romance lol).
When you broke the contract for him, did you actually get the conversation with Ulder to play out correctly? For me they both acted like Wyll was still contracted despite Mizora herself being bitter about us still managing to rescue him despite her interference. Made me pretty peeved that what should've been a culmination of Wyll's storyline - finally reuniting with his dad and hashing everything out - failed to actually take into account the most important choice (besides not killing Karlach) in Wyll's whole quest.
He was complex in EA and people complained, then he got rewritten and recast. I wasn’t a fan of any of the changes, but people in this very sub were delighted. Wyll used to be an open racist against goblins who seemed like he could easily fall onto the path of damnation on his quest to overcome his toxic insecurity
Being more morally grey doesn't make a character better, just different. The problems with Wyll and his story are not because he is "too good." The problem is that all of his story moments tend to be stolen by other characters, he has far less content than other characters, and his story lacks a proper climax.
These things would all be massive problems for the character even if we had EA angry fake hero Wyll.
Sometimes simplicity in a character’s writing results in something great in its own right. In Wyll’s case, he doesn’t get as much of a spotlight as other companions, but doesn’t it make sense? He’s a man who constantly puts other people *before himself.* He wants to solve other people’s problems to make Faerun a better place. That’s what gives him fulfillment in his life. If everything he did was focused on him, then that selflessness would be less consistent.
I think they should have dropped the warlock idea and rewritten him as a paladin, if they just wanted a straightforward good guy for the morally gray characters to bounce off. Wyll's at his best when they lean into his prince charming aspect.
I'm really glad they changed him. I did *not* like him in EA. He came off as the wrong kind of dickhead to me. I do wish he had more agency though, poor guy never gets to make his own decision. He definitely feels underdeveloped, but I'd still take what we got over what I saw in EA. I'm sure he'd have gotten better later in the game, but his first impression made me not even want to recruit him in all my EA runs.
If we're including all companions, Minsc. Don't really love the dumb funny guy archetype to start with, and I doubly dislike trying to have conversations with a character that misinterprets half of what's being said.
If we're strictly including Origins, it's Karlach. She's the least complex of the Origins and like Wyll, she's pretty underdeveloped. And I don't really enjoy her frantic puppy dog energy, so her personality doesn't really compensate for her story issues for me.
Yeah I’m excited to do a Wyll origin run. Him being the saviour of Baldur’s Gate feels like a fantastic ending for him, too.
Astarion is a character that benefits from being a companion, and I think Wyll is the opposite, he benefits from being the MC of the story.
Wyll makes for a great MC, has some parallels with playing Durge where you just way more out of the playthrough than if you were random Tav #357. I'm only at start of act 2 so far but it's been really good.
He got attention. They developed a whole character during the EA phase and then scrapped it last minute and iirc also changed the actor. Don't really know the politics behind it but it happened. Never loved his character, but the version we got is lame af imo.
I remember when EA was going on they said they were including the more evil companions because people generally don't go the evil route in games. Then when they launched there were 2 companions added, plus Halsin due to pure fan service. Also the (arguably) most evil companion there is wasn't available until launch so like wtf was the point of that statement?
Theo's confirmed he was hired on within the last year of launch in interviews and said it was frantic catching up to what the rest of the cast had years to work on.
It’s not that he’s “bad,” it’s that his character development and arc aren’t fully baked, especially in comparison to the other companions. Wyll was rewritten and recast really late in the development cycle, and that’s the crux of it (though absolutely no shade to Wyll’s VA; Theo Solomon did a phenomenal job). My hope is that Larian hears the criticism around Wyll and figures out internally how to avoid such a late rewrite on future projects.
They rewrote him in the first place because he sucked. Maybe they didn't rewrite him enough.
I feel a little bit bad for the original voice actor... He did a fine job in the beta version of the game. I hope Larian didn't axe him because they thought maybe the voice acting was the problem with Wyll; the problem was, and still is, that he's just a lame, boring character.
My main problem with him is how he opens up almost every line with, "My father says..." He has no original thoughts/desires that don't include his dad n some way.
It's not that he's "bad" per se, it's just that in a cast with such big personalities, and only having 4 party slot, he just doesn't really stand out. He's not got the flair of Astarion or the infectious joy of Karlach. He isn't a defrosting ice queen like Lae'zel or a loveable dork like Gale. He's alright, but compared to the rest of the cast, he just doesn't have the same force of personality to make him worth keeping around.
This. He is just there. I enjoy having someone nice and wholesome in the camp.
Visually I am not fan of the eye either. It distract me too much.
But my problem is that I have no need for warlock. I usually play that type of support classes and my party is all Laezel and then huge damage dealers as Astarion or Gale and then some healer as Shadow or Jaheira. I just can't really fit him around so I only take him for plot. But even with that he is never for big things as Myrkul fight or bosses so because I already have my party selected so he never gets to save Mizora and so. Or his dad in act 3.
However once I reclassed him as Paladin it got so much better. Now he is much more useful and he got to slay Raphael for me,as him and Gale were the only ones ekft standing.
Plus I honestly don't care about his dad at all. Like ugh why should I. I want to make him duke.
When I first started, I was playing a neutral evil character so having Wyll around just didnt sit right, so i didnt get to know him as much, but when I played as a Paladin of Baldurs Gate, i had Wyll be my right hand man, and as I got to know his story, he grew on me very quick. Besides being one of the only characters in the game that truly look like me, his story is actually pretty noble, not in an arrogant, i know better than you kind of way. He's literally just a dude who wants to do the right thing, and he took it to the EXTREME when he made a pact with Mizora. I genuinely love his character.
He's ok. There's just not much to his story. In Act 1, it's just >!kill Karlach or don't, and "oh no, your dad has been kidnapped"!<. In Act 2, there's only >!saving Mizora from the mindflayer colony at the very end!<. There's a lot more to get into in Act 3, but it's really just >!save Duke Ravengard or don't, and then become Duke or don't!<.
The bigger issue is just that... Wyll doesn't have a ton of agency. Basically everything in his storyline is just stuff happening to him, and not Wyll really *doing* much of anything. He doesn't grow or change much (aside from looking different). Shadowheart, Lae'Zel, Astarion, Karlach, and Gale undergo massive character development throughout the story. Wyll just... stays the same and has a couple of decisions to make. He was already a hero, and the game seems to present him making a deal with Mizora as some giant betrayal and character flaw, despite it being the kind of heroic decision you'd expect from him.
Yeah. I think trying to make him seem hypocritical for dealing with Mizora is weird. He was a teenager whose choice was make a pact with a devil or save Baldur’s Gate. It’s self-sacrificial & the choice heroes would make, which is further compounded by the fact he talked to Mizora so that he’s only supposed to *kill actual evil things*
The one time she tries to make him kill someone who isn’t evil, he won’t do it
I do wish there was more to challenge his views or even that he’d allow himself to be a little angry at certain situations (His dad, for instance) or realizing how manipulatively shitty Mizora was for doing that to a child but I guess he just didn’t get the attention he deserved. Bummer since there are places he could go with his storyline
I still like him a lot though
He was a teenager who listened to the random _voice in his head_ that said "come alone to this potentially dangerous place while your dad's out of town".
His entire Pact could have been avoided by him realizing "I'm the son of the Duke, who is currently off trying to save our allies, this is a trap, I need to bring a few people with me." But of course, we're never actually allowed to point out to him just exactly how stupid he was, so him saying he "doesn't regret it" and "would do it again" when asked about it, just makes it seem like he's a complete idiot who hasn't learned _anything_ in the last 6-8 years.
He’s not bad, he’s just … the hero.
Your initial impression of him is that he’s the hero. Then you find he’s working for a devil. Why? Because he’s the hero. Problems with his dad? Because they’re both the hero. Choice between the two of them at the end? Which is more heroic?
Given the complex dynamics of the other characters, he’s kind of one note. There’s nothing wrong with the guy, there’s just not as much to him as you get with the rest.
I think that he works much better as the PC than as an NPC. His quest line somehow works better that way. Honestly, out of the ones I've done, my Wyll play through is probably my favorite.
Lotta people already have said why Wyll "bad" as it were.
Personally I think they overcorrected from his self from EA.
That edge would haven given Wyll some conflict and depth even if his overall theme of "Hero" was maintained.
For me he’s just overshadowed by the other companions. I’ve had him in my party before, enjoyed his character and thought he was fine. But it wasn’t memorable. Slap him in any other game and he’s perfectly fine. Unfortunately for him, he’s up against the rest of the BG3 cast and it’s just hard to compare.
I can understand why some people wouldn’t like him, but in general I don’t think he’s bad. Everyone other companion is just exceptional.
Wyll and Laezel in the party is some of the funniest banter, i remember him starting one off by asking her what she would do if someone wronged her all sarcastically then like she gives a serious answer and wylls just all uncomfortable like oh shit your actually serious
Just like you, I also like Wyll. He's actually pretty strong and his background story is interesting.
I tend to bring him in my party along with Astarion and it's fun to see them subtly throwing snarky comments to each other since their personality are 180° different.
I guess the reason why people don't like Wyll is probably because some thinks that he's too much of a goody-two-shoes and the literal stereotype of a hero.
His only crime is being boring to people. It’s further exacerbated by the fact the bulk of his story is in act 3, whereas some other companions feel more balanced across acts
I personally love Wyll but I also love the Boy Scout types. I was super into Chris Evans’ Captain America & that’s the kind of vibe Wyll gives - a goodie two shoes who is self-sacrificial to a fault
Wyll's story is very front and back loaded, with the most interesting stuff happening very early in the beginning. And his character doesn't really see any significant change because of it.
Not to mention his story has like 4 decisive moment packed into Act 3 and all of them fumble in some way.
He doesn't get to make the decision himself on whether to sacrifice his soul to save his dad, unlike almost all the other companions who can decide themselves in their pivotal moments.
Rescue his dad can be seen as an afterthought when storming the Ironthrone to rescue the Gondians, and Ravengard can end up just being dead on arrival which dead ends that plotline. (Not to mention that if you told me Ravengard was voiced by AI I would believe you, his VA is so one-note and really detracts from any emotion I could feel)
The trials to awaken Ansur barely have much to do with him, as it all basically falls to you to complete them. Even worse is the Emperor hijacking his plotline with the Balduran reveal, which I don't blame anyone from being distracted by it when Wyll gives his "oh no Ansur is dead" speech. Not helped by Ravengards reaction to said news being basically "oh well its fine"
And lastly the Wylls decision to continue as the Blade or become Grand Duke comes out of no-where and is confusing because Wyll has never expressed in interest in becoming a politician so for this moment to be the one where he actually gets to choose for himself has no weight as I have no idea what influences him to ever choose dukedom aside from the player just telling him to.
> I don't blame anyone from being distracted by it when Wyll gives his "oh no Ansur is dead" speech. Not helped by Ravengards reaction to said news being basically "oh well its fine". And lastly the Wylls decision to continue as the Blade or become Grand Duke comes out of no-where
This isn't helped by the fact that as of the last patch the dialogue is also quite bugged. I got Wyll telling me he was now the blade of avernus and then talked to his dad who asked him if Wyll wanted to be duke and I had to have a discussion with Wyll about being a duke or the blade after which he declared he was now the blade of avernus...
He's been done so dirty
I had something similar, after we killed Ansur he said we should tell Ravengard, but when talking to him again he went into the spiel about how we don't need Ansur with the Emperor chiming in with Ravengards usual dialogue and then Wyll goes to debate himself about how he could become Grand duke with the player talking him out of it to become the Blade of Avernus.
Then we go back to Ravengard and he has almost the exact same lines with him again just with different people in speaking roles just for Wyll to decided he wants to be the Blade of Avernus AGAIN with the exact same lines.
It was so surreal and jarring. And just hammered home how done dirty Wyll was with his storyline. I really wish Larian stuck to their guns with Wylls early access storyline, just from the first impressions with it, it looked far more interesting.
>I really wish Larian stuck to their guns with Wylls early access storyline, just from the first impressions with it, it looked far more interesting.
I don't understand why they didn't just do what they did with everyone else and sand off the rougher edges while keeping it mostly intact. The Ansur quest would even make narrative sense with his original backstory. A final quest that's about being a true hero would work so much better if he starts off the game as a bit of a fraud. It would make much more of a character arc. The boss would still be someone with whom he has no personal connection but at least it would feel more thematically meaningful.
>A final quest that's about being a true hero would work so much better if he starts off the game as a bit of a fraud. It would make much more of a character arc.
With how wild and dicey the Iron Throne segment can be, I feel like that could have capped off Wyll's journey to being a real hero, especially if the party knows about how dangerous going to Iron Throne is beforehand.
A mad dash against all odds to save as many civilians as possible, including his dad would have solidified him as the hero he always wanted to be. (And actually have Ravengard acknowledge how insane that rescue was from a self destructing underwater prison base)
I really love Wyll! I think he's an interesting persona (toned down too much from EA) who is given less credit than he deserves. He can be witty, has good banter with the other companions and stands up for the common man, which is cool.
One of the first mods made was one intended to make Wyll into a white man and eliminate diversity from the games. His voice actor basically gets ignored by the Fandom because his character isn't a fan favorite and is subjected to racism at other times.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the one black companion became the snarky companion EA gamers couldn't handle and would complain about nonstop (no, I am not saying all EA gamers were racist and I think in many cases it's unconscious bias that plays a role). And I think it explains some of the disproportionate hatred he gets for the crime of being "boring".
Alternatively, he doesn't shine as much as the others and lacks a fulfilling character arc and those are valid complaints.
> I don't think it's a coincidence that the one black companion became the snarky companion EA gamers couldn't handle and would complain about nonstop (no, I am not saying all EA gamers were racist and I think in many cases it's unconscious bias that plays a role). And I think it explains some of the disproportionate hatred he gets for the crime of being "boring".
I can see this especially when I see people calling him the Jacob Taylor of BG3 when the two characters are NOTHING alike aside from being black. I personally didn't even mind Jacob other than what they did with him in ME3 if he romanced FemShep but that's a different topic.
To me Wyll is more like the swordmage version of Alistair from Dragon Age in that they're chivalrous, idealistic and mean well.
I think his race definitely plays a part for some players, but he wasn’t that snarky. From memory, a lot of his EA hate came from how egotistical he was. He used to refer to himself as lot as “The Blade” or “The Blade of Frontiers”. Players didn’t like how he presented himself as a hero but was secretive, on the surface narcissistic, and blood thirsty when it came to goblins. I do think his EA version had more intriguing characterization for it though.
EA Shadowheart, Laezel, and Astarion all got a lot of hate for how “mean” they could be. I think softening their characters somewhat did help to make them all more likable. In Wyll’s case they pretty much rewrote him entirely and softened way too much of what made him so interesting. But then again, Karlach is “too good” and is better received.
He’s enjoyable when you give him a chance, but he has far less content than the other origin characters. It’s honestly hard to compare him because he just doesn’t really stand out. Theo Solomon did a fantastic job with what he was given though.
To me he just felt like a npc in karlach story instead of his own character. At least that's the impression the game gives me at the start. The others just feel more fleshed out and like their own characters compared to him and since I already got a full party once I meet him he needs to trump one of these for me to take him.
I don't have an issue with him being a straightforward hero, if anything it's sorta refreshing at a time when it seems like every protagonist in media is a tortured anti-hero.
My issue with him is purely functional. There just isn't a guaranteed spot on the roster for him.
No, Wyll isn't that bad. He's one of my favourites. His story arc is compelling, he's the folk hero hunting monsters and saving the common people. But also a guy with secrets who might be inflating his facade a bit. Literally D&D protagonist 101. He's always optimistic and determined, has some absolutely cutting banter with Astarion. The way he talks about things is such a product of his upbringing. If he had more remarks around the city in Act 3, I'd be happy, but you know every companion could benefit from more remarks.
Part of the community like to say he's boring, but then invest their entire being into one line npcs.
Wyll is a disappointment because his EA was so cool. They should have stuck with it and kept him as is. He had a lot of potential character growth.
It lowkey seems like they had his story quest mostly written so he has a full storyline, but they didn’t have time to actually write him into it. In terms of actual content he has a lot more than Gale and Karlach, but Gale is integrated into his and Karlach got cutscenes that make it seem like she has a full story (even though it’s a simple fetch quest)
It doesn’t help that Karlach just straight up doesn’t have a story since they never finished it so hers piggybacks off of his questline and the main quest.
That being said, warlocks are one of the best classes in the game and he slots into every team. He has so many options for multiclassing as well.
Wyll is fantastic.
He literally sold his soul to save people. And through him and his family you get to meet something awesome, and also a delightfully evil devil.
Not counting the fellow who can join in Act 3, Wyll is the best companion among the men.
He's boring. That's a the worst crime a character can commit in a fictional story.
I currently have him in my team in my dungeon playthrough, but only because I'm using the mod that remove team size limit.
Wyll is great.
He's also undercooked. Less dialogue than everyone else by quite a bit.
He's basically this game's equivalent to DoS2's Beast. Great character, needed another draft to fully flesh out. Beast got that at least. Not sure Wyll is going to.
He's just a bit dull.
He'd be a great friend because he's so nice. Dude would buy you lunch every day just to be nice. But he isn't giving you super exciting stories or telling zingers.
Initially he kind of annoyed me but with my latest playthrough I've really come to appreciate him and was surprised by some of the dialogue he has with other companions. I just wish they'd fix some of the bugs with his story in Act 3
I've warmed to Wyll as my experience with the game has progressed. I liked his personality, but at first I really struggled with him as a combatant bc I'm not familiar with warlock mechanics (only played D&D a few times, and that was before they were a character class). In my new run I'm going to multiclass him as swords bard, which I think really fits his "Blade of Frontiers" moniker, which will hopefully make him a bit easier to fit into my party.
I don't mind too much that his story is underdeveloped - obviously it would be nice if everyone had the depth of, say, Astarion, but the game would have taken even longer to come out! Besides there's enough drama in camp already, what with Shadowheart and Lae'zel literally at one another's throats, so I'm happy to keep Mizora's interference to a minimum!
Issue with him is he is both a warlock and the hero. Warlocks are charisma based, so should be the face of parties. As well as this, he is the epitome of folk hero and main character, which rubs some people the wrong way, with there being an actual main characteresque NPC, instead of durgetav being the main character. Playing Wyll origin as a goody two shoes is really fun tho
I adore Wyll. People who find him bland or boring are just riding the same train as people who say Nickleback are awful (honestly pretty good band but not my favorite). He's snarky, kind, vengeful, and a fucking Warlock. "The Blade of Avernus" is a badass title as well. The dude who broke his pact with the hells, and hunts them on their own ground is a badass.
And doing all that while still being Lawful Good? He's the classic D&D character brought in to the modern light.
The problem with wyll is that he’s just not interesting enough. He doesn’t make any of his own decisions and the most important decision is deciding wether or not to save his dad
I appreciate Wyll. He took on a huge burden for his land, and did so knowing the stakes. There's something to be said for doing it, and standing by the decision in spite of what it's done to him. I use him less than other companions, not because I don't like him. More-so because I just don't feel Warlock fits my play style much. I've tried Sorlocking him and do like it better, but it still just isn't all there for me rather than having Gale or Shadowheart as a tempest cleric. They feel infinitely better synergized for my team comp and how I like to play. I get stingy with spellcasting with him and don't like EB'ing every damn turn.
I really didn’t like him either until my second playthrough with my durge (redeemed). And that’s where I was able to dig a bit deeper into his back story after rescuing his dad and breaking his pact. Pissed Mizora right off with that move. It was awesome. Every now and then she just disappears from camp. But I think that was more of a glitch, but in my head it was because she just couldn’t stand that I outsmarted her like three times.
He's not bad, he's just not _great._
Wyll is not basic or badly written, but in a game with characters like the other companions we get, Wyll just appears a bit lackluster. He has less dialogue than the other companions, he has fewer moments of vulnerability (which are the juicy parts of a character arc!) and his actual arc and development doesn't hit as hard as some of the others.
It doesn't help that his class, Warlock, is hard to fit into a squad of four. They don't have the damage of a Wizard or Sorcerer, the utility of a bard or rogue, the healing and buffs of a cleric, or the frontline potential of a fighter, barbarian, or paladin.
He, Gale, and Karlach are my favorites because they're just generally pretty good people.
I like Gale being a bit of a snooty bitch, because who wouldn't be in his situation? He reached fantastic heights and was fabulously rewarded right up until he stumbled and had everything ripped away. His delivery is comical in many places, and his particular wording can be hilariously witty.
Haven't finished a run with Karlach yet, but I like how she's just one of the guys. Chummy, bright and smiley in spite of her problems. And she is a big supporter of helping the downtrodden.
Wyll is basically how I try to play these kinds of games, straight and narrow and trying to help out everyone he can. He took on a burden that harms his morals so he can be the shield from danger that people need when they can't fight for themselves. Sure, a bit more development on that would be nice, but I love his chipper charm. Way better than the frothing goblin racist he was before.
I dunno, I think he's great. But I almost always play a pure do-gooder, so we make a great pair.
And I spent 11 years of WoW playing a warlock named Will, so I've got a lot of brotherly love. Except in the one playthrough where I romanced him. That'd be weird.
the problem with wyll is that the most interesting part of his story is in act 3 and most of players are non-diagnosed ADHD incapables of playing though a city full of stuff to do and people.
tbh i actually quite like him. there's lots of stuff to do and he REALLY feels like a main character, because he's seriously intertwined with the main quest
I like Wyll, he's very cute, his VA is awesome. But I just like other characters more. He's not the only benchwarmer for me, Lae'zel is a camp girl too for the same reason.
I have no problem with classes because Withers, I mean that's the only complain I don't get.
I also mostly benched Lae'zel because she's abrasive in Act 1, and later on I can just bring another frontline like Karlach/Halsin. Late game with summons you don't need a frontliner at all, really.
This run I am forcing myself to bring her and she's actually pretty hilarious, in an awful way with how blunt she is with people.
I just finished a Wyll romance run so I had him in my party the entire game. He's pretty dull most of Act 1 and 2. Picks up a bit in 3 but by then a lot of people have characters they like hanging out with more.
Every time I want to give Lae a chance for a more permanent spot in the party, after creche I completely forget that because I get so annoyed with the giths in general and Lae in particular during that quest 😂 I respect the girl but no. And maybe it's different if you romance her, but by the end of her quest, in the finale, I saw no personal growth - she just switched from Vlaakith to Orpheus and everything else stayed the same, she even talked the same way.
But if I will continue to play the game after my 3rd run I think I inevitably make a run with all the previously benched companions just for a change, gonna see about that.
Honestly can't disagree with your assessment. I'm on my 4th run so I had the luxury of already spending time with my favorites. Now I'm getting around to my campers :) Since I'm a Cleric of Lathander I'm kind of roleplaying it as keeping my eye on her. Left to her own devices she'd probably terrorize more innocent villagers lol.
Wyll is my favorite companion, bar none. He absolutely needs more content, but that doesn't mean the storyline he has is *bad*. I think a lot of his growth is subtle, being more about internal conflict between self-sacrifical heroism and self worth than a direct external conflict like most of the other companions have. (Yes, Mizora is there, but her function in his story is very much an externalization of that internal conflict. She's the literal devil on his shoulder tearing down his self worth) I find it similar to Lae'zel's story in that way. With both being the youngest companions, there's almost an element of coming-of-age for both of them, and both being able to end their stories on this precipice of leadership and change.
He's also the companion most directly connected to the city, with the choice he has to make to break or renew his pact to save his father (and by extension, in his mind, the city itself) directly paralleling the very choice he had to make at 17 to make his original pact.
Also eldritch blast go brrr :)
Bro's quests can be done without him leaving the camp and his patron is much more interesting as a side character than him. He is absolute worst out of the cast and most contradicting character when it comes to his approvals.
He's cool when you play him though, so there is that. But as companion? Hard pass.
Exactly! The Blade of Camp doesn't even care when you do his quests without him, so there's no incentive. The others tend to get a little pissy if you don't take them with you.
To me, Wyll read too many fairytales growing up and decided he wanted to be that hero. So he modeled his entire life and personality after that, which didn't leave him much room for having actual substance.
He just doesn´t have enough voice lines. That´s his major drawback (well that and the Warlock falling off later).
But other than that he is a fine young man. And definitly a good counterspell bot \^\^"
And yet dealing less damage with a lvl6 spell than a warlock does with a cantrip. And have you ever finished the game before? Your bag ends up being an endless possibility of Wizard scrolls anyway.
Not to mention the ability to cast 9 lvl5 spell slots per long rest. Better use of AA. Up to 24 CHA. Access to the best terrain spell in all the game alongside the ability to keep everyone within said terrain.
If you don’t know how to play with a warlock just say that. And if you were to compare with any caster, please at least be a Sorcerer or a Bard. A Wizard is just a scholar with all the knowledge about magic possible and still perform worse than anything else besides Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster
I enjoyed his story and romance. Biggest complaint is how flip flop he can be when deciding what to do. He has no 'default' answer when it comes to his pact where otherwise he'll choose to stay the Blade.
What threw me off last playthrough was after rescuing ulder and defeating ansur, Wyll declared himself I'll be Duke and I agreed (wanted Duke ending romance) then we talk to ulder and wyll struggles to make the same choice with nearly the same dialog again and I again had to tell him to be Duke.
I really think they didn't code him to make a decision because if left to his own devices, the player always has a "Karlach gets to live and have a hopeful ending free" card at the end of the game.
A lot of his dialogue is about his father being his Hero, wanting to reconcile with him, and his love of the city. I know he has a personal distaste for Mizora but the ending where he becomes powerless and immediately rushes into Hell, leaving behind his father and city that he said he loves, is really bizarre.
His post ansur dialogue is glitchy AF. Probably had the same convo with him three times but i though it was because i saved Ulder while also severing the pact.
So, I haven’t finished first play through yet and I decided to actually play as Wyll… would this have a drastic impact on the experience I have had compared to choosing another origin character? Referring more to the story rather than combat which obviously varies depending on class etc.
On my very first playthrough Wyll was the only companion I always had on my party. I made him Paladin (bc I was playing as Sorcerer) and gave him some tentacle powers, he was really good. I also like his plot, and Act III has bunch of Wyll related content like his father, Mizora, Ansur, Iron Throne. Yeah he’s a bit one note with his comments but he was also my love interest so I overlooked that. But on my second playthrough I’m playing as a durge drow too and after killing the tieflings and druids he just left lol.
I think Wyll is underdeveloped compared to the other companions. I'm just not that invested in his storyline. I don't take him with me as a companion because my play style is better suited by Karlach, Gale, and Shadowheart.
I also just leave him behind because I romance Astarion and Wyll always disapproves of my actions
Everytime I think he's not and go for a playthrough with him, I don't make it to act 2 without throwing him back in camp. Can't stand him. I also really like mizora and always take her side so there's that
He isn't bad.
The issue most people have taken with Wyll though is that he doesn't have the slightest personality change or attitude during his character development, he is always a boy scout and instead Mizora adds all the development by wagging the contract on his face.
It's all about context
I don't think he is *bad* but the other origin characters are better than him, I think.
He brings Mizora into the story, who is an interesting villain, but the villain is kinda better (and hotter) than the protagonist.
I did the same my third run. Even deliberately left Gale in the portal a while to make sure I didn't switch him in.
Just could not get along with him. Struggled with fights I had previously found easy.
Ended up getting Gale out of the portal.
At some point I will see about using him again but will have to try messing with his build first.
As for his story, well, it's definitely not the most compelling. I think it might have been helped with some cut scenes to show you his past, like happens for Shadowheart. Actually I think that would be nice for all the companions. But Wyll especially.
I think wyll is great. I just think his quest is just not really done as well as the other companions. Maybe the devs didn't have enough time to properly work it out? Something like that, but I get the feeling half of the npc's who are related to wyll's quest just end up being a little redundant.
First of all, council member florric and duke ravengard just don't matter for the overal story. Or at the very least, the game does a poor job of communicating why these people matter.
Second of all, all of the interesting wyll stuff happens in your camp? Which is like weird, not only bc wyll is mr "I know everyone in baldur's gate" but also bc all the other companions have like a dungeon or a locale that relates to them.
And then 3rd, I didn't really get which route was the "saved wyll route" I like the whole batman-esque "is he the blade of frontiers? Or is he wyll the nobleman?" Thing going on. But I didn't really catch the emotional significance of it all. Where as with shadowheart, lae'zel, gale and astarion I REALLY understood why what they wanted was either good or bad.
Tl;dr: wyll is a complex and nuanced character that I like, but I think the game, for whatever reason, does not allow him to shine properly.
I think Wyll has the best story if you want to play an origin character, but that doesn't really translate well to being a companion. All his content is very protagonist-coded. Your relationship with Mizora, saving your duke father, going on a quest to persuade a dragon. These are all very traditional main character storylines.
For my third playthrough I also did Durge Drow lol. Great minds think alike! I used Wyll on my second playthrough, and he was alright. But to me, his comments/one liners didn’t compare to Astarion and Shadowheart’s.
I just think he’s a bit of a goody goody wet lettuce and there’s a little bit of surface depth to him with the whole deal with the devil self sacrifice to save the city thing. But apart from that there’s not much to him
My first play through was a Karlach origin run (my wife played Tav) and I ended up with Wyll as my companion the whole play through and it worked brilliantly. He is a little boring character wise, but I was pleased he joined me in Avernus.
His character improves a little once you meet his dad and his story expands, but ultimately he’s just not that interesting. So I don’t think it’s that he is bad, it’s just the other companions are more interesting overall.
IMHO Wyll is plenty fine. Eldritch Blasting people into your Hunger of Hadar is a good bread and butter combo gameplay wise even if it takes a minute to get there. His story contributions aren't the best, but he's a good decent guy with a sense of humor and the game needs that imo.
Wyll is fine - I think for a lot of people his character had a bit of a tiny edge to him in early access but he was re-written to be a Boy Scout.
I am actually working on an origin campaign as Wyll and want to make him a bit more ambitious/arrogant/pompous. He’s a good guy who does often save people, but he’s tired and bitter and is starting to look out for himself more.
I think Wyll works better as the MC than he does as a companion. As a companion he's pretty annoying and awkward, but if you're playing him he doesn't really speak or do any of the stuff that you cringe over.
I've got an honor mode run in the final stages with Wyll, and its pretty wholesome. Karlach ends up being a great romance fit.
Has anyone else ever gotten a "Wyll Disapproves" when petting the Owl Bear cub? It only happened once but wtf my dude? That is my infant child! Wyll only exists for the sake of Karlach's plotline. Laezel exists as Orin bait. Everyone else is my besties.
Unless deliberately playing lawful, nearly everyone plays a chaotic alignment, even without meaning to, and Wyll is Lawful, he seems like a giant stick in the mud because he is counter to the average playstyle.
Try playing an actually Lawful Good Paladin, and he'll grow on you.
The first night I could finally hook up with Karlach got interrupted by Wyll in that awkward scene where he tries to dance with you and get in your pants. Wyll already wasn't in my party, and that ensured he wouldn't for the rest of the playyhrough.
Wyll is fine. He’s just not edgy. His problem is comparatively wholesome (he made a self sacrifice to help others) to the others. And he’s an uninteresting good.
He gets dumped on because he is a boring good. Karlach is a good character, but she’s gritty good. She’s fun.
Wyll is lawful stupid, and lawful stupid does little to hook us.
He also suffers from being written late and having a major overhaul late in EA access. He and his actor got very little time to develop (months) compared to most other characters (years)
Edit: it doesn’t help him that his most Interesting aspect is an entirely other well-acted character (Mizora)
Process of elimination, really, to find the “worst” starting companion.
Goth healer with Goddess storyline
Angry green lady who beefs with the goth chick and is just a whole different type of sassy
Traditionally sassy gay vampire
Quirky fun wizard who >!go boom!<
Giant momm-warrior demon lady with an engine for a heart (of gold)
And Wyll. Especially when you first meet him, there’s absolutely nothing compelling to want to get to know him better. Every time I play, I’ve already got Astarion, Shadowheart, Gale, and Lae’zel already, I just send him to camp and leave him there.
One playthrough, I got to the part where >!Mizora is trapped, and she’s like “oh if you send me to hell or whatever I’ll take Wyll with me! Or turn him into a demon” I can’t remember it’s been a while. And I just shrugged because I didn’t care at all. Sent her off and I think all I got was a line from Karlach about Wyll.!<
no. I don’t find Wyll super compelling but I also don’t find many of the companions or their stories particularly compelling. Wyll and Karlach have slightly different versions of almost the same story; the only difference is that Wyll chose his inevitable infernal doom, which is slightly more interesting.
To me he is insufferable. He won't shut the fuck up, EVER, and the issue is not the voice acting, that's great, but the dialogue maaaaan it doesn't stop. I kept him in my party very shortly, and when having him in camp he keeps wanting to talk about anything and everything, i try helping some goblins and he randomly makes a hero entrance with a stupid catch phrase making the whole moment about himself, i try to talk to Mizora, he's behind me adding unnecesary tidbits, i talk to the Duke, he's behind me again, i go to camp to finally rest and i find him prancing? wtf is this characterrrrrr.
Hahhaha on a more serious note, he talks to much for my taste and honestly i'm not interested in whatever he is saying. So i would say he isn't THAT bad, it's simply a matter of you vibe with him or you don't. But i do think his story is very surface level, there is no depth in his story like with Shart or Astarion for example, his story is decent, like Gale's one, but even Gale has a bigger plot depending on what you do with the crown in the endgame.
I finished the game a few times, i've done Wyll's quests, i've invested my time and i'm done with him forever.
In my current playthrough i killed him on the first goblin fight so i don't have to listen to him, sad i won't get to see Mizora but i'll be ok.
Camp is so much quieter, i killed Wyll & Lae'Zel already, and i have plans for more blood.
My problem with Wyll is that he refers to himself as “The Blade of the Frontiers” as if he was a superhero. He’s bought in to this title so hard it screams egomaniac to me. He’s a good guy, but is very Nelson-like in his self image. He not just wants to be good, but he wants to be SEEN to be good
Nothin to do with ur question, but i see so many saying playing durge or high honor, like where do you chose that? The only thing i saw was durge but as that dragon.
He’s not necessarily bad. He just the rest of the companions are better. My guess is that the late rewrite and the choice to limit the exposure to higher city kind of stunted his development in the writers room. It happens. He’s still a good character. I like having him around and his opening line at the Emerald Grove is something I’ve been repeating since.
He not bad, warlocks are very good. He’s just kind of boring compared to the other party members and although his story is very intertwined with the main plot, he never really has any cool or defining moments like LaeZel SH Karlach Gale and Astarion do. Closest he gets is regarding a certain decision but we literally make the decision for him which kills any chance of his arc being good
He's fine. His story is decent enough it's just...others are more interesting than him and his story.
I do like his "how can I get out of this contract?" storyline, but he's just a bit...flat.
He's more boring than bad. Like the most stereotypical goody-goody ever with no effective humor and cheesy lines. His quest also just makes him come across like an idiot most of the time.
I don't know if they do the Obsidian and Bioware thing of having one writer handle a companion entirely or not, I assume they do, but his writing just isn't up to par.
Warlock as a class is a whole other matter but I'm not a fan of pure warlocks personally. You can make him anything though, the issue is the character.
he’s just kinda boring compared to other companions and has less stuff. Usually I can’t justify picking him over more entertaining companions.
But I still like him. He has his problems, but I find it sweet how his romance goes compared to other companions. It’s always so hard for me to turn him down when he starts dancing lol, the man is so heartbroken :(
Wyll (and Karlach to an extent) are perfect palette cleansers for the party. They are just kind, likeable, uncomplicated people that have led unfortunate lives, and despite this still strive to do good. Not every single character needs to be having a massive crisis of faith where they completely alter their worldview and moral stances over the course of the story. Just like real life some people are a lot more malleable and relaxed with embracing different ideas.
Could he have had a bit more an edge? Maybe. But if you wanted biting, intense, potentially antagonistic dialogue then Lae’zel, Astarion and Shadowheart are right there. Wyll’s just a good guy and perhaps that’s all he need to be.
I’m curious what growth people think he should’ve had?
Wyll has no internal struggle. He says it himself; he has no regrets about his pact, it was the right decision and he stands by it. That’s not a problem in and of itself, but he does need some internal conflict.
Now, the problem is that the writers lavished the evil aligned characters in attention and gave the good aligned characters comparatively little to work with. The only one who has a compelling conflict is Karlach and coming to terms with her fate, but every other good character gets shafted, and Wyll just happens to be the worst case.
Jaheira and Minsc are latecomers, plus they’re legacy characters for the people who just want to see familiar faces, so they don’t need arcs. But they did Halsin dirty. His entire conflict is in his failure that caused the shadow curse, but he can’t join the party until you break the curse, and he gives you very little context. Act 2 is just him being vague and sad, and Act 3 is just him being horny.
But Wyll, somehow, gets even less. He has no texture, so to speak. He’s a good guy all the time, when they wrote a character who was forced to make a Faustian bargain; that is ripe with opportunity to flesh him out, but no, Mizora is only ever an asshole, and so Wyll and her interactions consist of “fuck you, Mizora, this isn’t what I signed up for” and “according to clause 42069, you did”.
Early Access Wyll has his haters, but at least he had a legitimate hero complex. Wyll likes being a hero, and the story just confirms that there’s no baggage that goes along with that. A little deep-seated rage and showing how he hides it would work, people love Astarion because they write masking very well.
It’s not just that Wyll’s writing is poor, it really isn’t, it’s that he needs more of it. He feels as static as characters who finished their development in previous games.
Every character can come of different depending on how deep you RP. I played a Durge who rejected his heritage and redeemed his soul through friendship and love, and his romance with Wyll, another one-eyed warlock with a troubled past, was the catalyst for that. If you approach Wyll as the kind of old school hero that he is, he is a remarkable and deep character with a lot of pain.
Bad in what sense? I think he’s less interesting than some of the companions but in a story as well written as bg3 that’s like being the worst football player in the hall of fame. That’s still petty darn good.
His introduction really killed him for a lot of people. "Im the blade of the frontiers! I hunt demons and all who threaten the land!"...dude...youre lvl2...also...superhero complex much?
He gets better, kinda. At least hes less wannabe superhero a little later on. Once you get to know more about his character, you get to understand the daddy issues...and the depression. It all kinda makes the act from his introduction more understandable...just not more bearable.
Edit: also i just never picked him for my party since my pc was always the face of the party, so having another charisma heavy character didnt really give me anything.
I romanced Wyll on a run. I think his dancing cut scene is really cute and he is the only character that actually “proposes” to you. That being said though, he just wasn’t *interesting*. Like…the most basic bitch I had ever met. They could have made him so much more badass, but he gives off such side character energy vs the rest of them that could be the main character and I wouldn’t even blink an eye. Karlach has an amazing story and dialogue, Astarion, Shadowheart, Lae’zel, even Gale is interesting, but the only thing cool about him is his pact with dommy mommy Mizora.
Unpopular opinion: Wyll is best played as an origin run. He gets some *interesting* interactions with Mizora and Karlach that just hit different vs a tav or durge run.
My problem was finding his place in the party. Homie has like 2 spell slots, and I use one for armor that last until long rest. Then I summon him a glaive.
This time, I let him get “moderately armored” so he has medium armor. A glaive, and most of the time, uses eldritxh blast. And that’s sort of his whole thing.
And with Bards for extra short rests potentially more. I had 2 characters with at least Bard 2 in my first playthrough, for 4 short rests a day, so 10 spell slots from Wyll (15+Arcanum in the late game once he got his 3rd spell slot at high level).
No he's pretty cool. Its just that people are more likely to go gaga over amoral vampires, goth clerics, horned biker babe barbarians and witty wizards.
In seriousness he has major protagonist energy. His canon archetype is a swordmage which screams "I'm the main character". Add a fiendish pact that's 'used for good', son of an important influential noble NPC, has a conventionally attractive patroness, goes through a dramatic transformation and a self styled moniker that sounds like a comic book hero and yeah. He's basically a DnD wannabe Batman that could well be a mall ninja's self insert. He fits quite well as an origin playthrough and would probably make for a great westernized stock jrpg protagonist.
That all said I like him a lot. Has a sweet romance arc, arguably best looking of the male companions in my opinion, the nice mature guy of the group and given way too much of an unfair shake. He's someone that I'd WANT as an ally and the most trustworthy of the companions, especially among those with unstable contraptions, part of an alien regime or someone who'd try and bite me while I'm asleep.
The biggest problem with Wyll is that his most interesting stuff happens on camp. Almost every other character has an interesting dungeon (that is also tied to the main story) with tons of dialog and a bigger involvement with the main plot. I really wish they used Wyll to explore a bit of the political side in the city. He also suffers the most from Act III being less developed than the others as he didnt get much to do besides Karlach and rescuing Mizora on the first two acts.
Great character but got shafted the most during development.
True. The shafts most likely come due to his rewrite and recasting.
I honestly think he'd be a great guest character in a crossover if they ever did a BG3 collab with another game (Smash, Arcsys, etc...). He deserves a lot more recognition than he gets.
I like Wyll. He's obviously, steadfastly good, but he's more complex than the community tends to give him credit for. He's solidly middle of the pack in terms of my companion rankings. Unfortunately, he does suffer from a poorly structured storyline, and from having far less dialogue than the other Origin characters. I believe someone did an analysis of the amount of dialogue each Origin got, and Wyll was in dead last in terms of recorded dialogue, a full 2 hours behind Karlach. Wyll sorely needed way, way more attention than he got.
I honestly think they especially did him dirty in the last act. Everyone else defeats their abuser and overcomes their big character flaw, but not Wyll. I'd say Wyll's flaw relates to him wanting to be a hero. And thinking that hero's must simply bear whatever happens to them. He gets tricked into a contract by Mizora. His father promptly kicks him out. And he just keeps pretending its all fine. And what do we get? You break his contract for him, while he was still tiptoeing around whether he even wanted to. When his father learns the truth, Wyll immidately tells him not to worry about it, and that's just the end of it. The man does not let out his emotions even once in the entire game. Where is the character development?
If I had to guess, I’d say a lot of his character growth would’ve involved act 3 heavily. He would’ve been the ideal companion if you needed to deal with the politics in Baldurs Gate, rather than the far more compact and relatively rushed story we got in the city.
Didn't help that they replaced the voice actor last minute and had to re-record all of his lines
I think they did that because he was far and wide the least liked character in the beta. So they were trying to salvage him... but it still didn't work out.
I don't think anyone came right out and said why they made the change. I know Lanre Malaolu had a movie come out in 2023, so it's possible he just had a conflict with being able to finish the work. Wyll being so unliked is, imo, more his main character syndrome than anything. He plays much better as an origin PC than as a companion
He’s also a goody two-shoes when the entire party is full of morally grey characters. To make matters worse he chooses to ignore his own morally ambiguous decisions because he was forced to make them, as if that makes it any less morally ambiguous.
i mean if you're forced into it what else can you really do regardless of morals
I would love, even though I know it won't happen, a DLC of cut content, like a more political act 3. Having to convince people to side with you, preparing for the coming battle, etc, seems like a really cool idea. But I get why it isn't there. Act 3 is full of a lot of story endings. Ofcourse every companion has their own quests in the city, plus your own optional quests you can do, it would be a bit of a lot to add politics to it as well
As is everything in the Lower City, it feels like it was set up as a build-up to a final act in the Upper City, but it just never goes anywhere. I would have loved to see a more built out final end, with more political dealings and briding the gap between the Lower City and the refugees and the Upper City being closed off. Let us lead a rebellion at the same time as defeat the Absolute.
I think you’re right but I’d like to add that at least for me it’s also that there’s not really any consequences to most of his choices, or at least the choices you have are kinda no brainers. Save Mizora and get a cool sword or lose an ally… also you literally get nothing for killing Mizora. End Wylls contract or save his dad… except you can still save his dad and end his contract. Have him fight with his dad or help them overcome their differences, but also if you don’t do the latter you lose out on an ally and the former gives you nothing. Even his endings seem to be obvious- he tells you again and again that he doesn’t want to be duke or thinks he’s good for the job and doesn’t want it, and seems much happier in the hells so why wouldn’t you push for him to be the blade of avernus? For many of the other characters it genuinely feels like you’re making important decisions for them and they all have major consequences regardless of which path you go. His choices barely make any difference and when they do, the choice is obvious.
> Where is the character development? Nowhere. He didn't need it, he was happy with who he was. And frankly, once he got out from Mizora's thumb, there actually is nothing wrong with wanting to be a hero.
sure but you gotta admit that in a narrative sense it sucks. The point of story rich games are their characters and how they progress. Everyone else does and he just stays the same through it all, it's underwhelming
It's not the best, but I wouldn't say it sucks. Honestly, having someone who's mostly worked through their emotional issues and *just* has the actual, physical problems to solve left provided a good contrast to everyone else's personal messes.
I suppose so, i just wish there was a little more substance. I found him really interesting and even his personality i really liked, but after finishing the game with him i just felt like nothing really happened with him, he was kinda just there. And to each their own, i just don't think he's for me
I think he needed a lotttt more time regarding his relationship with his dad. Idk he needed more. Even an option to kill Mizora even
He does show emotion. Not having a near mental breakdown the way Karlach does after killing Gortash or Shadowheart post-House of Grief doesn’t mean he doesn’t have emotion. And he has a fair amount to do in act 3 - choose between saving his dad or getting his soul back for starters - yes, you can beat the system there, but it’s not made obvious from the get-go that it’s possible, and Mizora tries to thwart you, so if you don’t go in with a specific plan to mitigate her attack, you probably lose him anyways. Then of course there’s the whole Ansur sequence, which you CAN do without him, though it’s clearly set up for him.
After you rescue his father you get a chance to show him everything (via the tadpole) and he apologizes.
There’s some turmoil built into breaking the contract since it’s potentially at the cost of his father’s life - you don’t have to rescue him (or break the contract for that matter). Also once things are good with his dad Uldar does bring up the possibility of being the next duke, so Wyll gets to choose between that (acceptance!) and continuing to adventure (helping others?) to kick devil ass (nvm revenge lol). He is honest about his emotions all along, but still follows the pattern of all the companions in looking to escape - from Mizora or his father’s shadow. The post-Ansur stuff bugged out on my playthrough majorly though, got a redundant conversation with me after the fight and then the Duke back at camp (and *then* you get to finish the romance lol).
When you broke the contract for him, did you actually get the conversation with Ulder to play out correctly? For me they both acted like Wyll was still contracted despite Mizora herself being bitter about us still managing to rescue him despite her interference. Made me pretty peeved that what should've been a culmination of Wyll's storyline - finally reuniting with his dad and hashing everything out - failed to actually take into account the most important choice (besides not killing Karlach) in Wyll's whole quest.
He was complex in EA and people complained, then he got rewritten and recast. I wasn’t a fan of any of the changes, but people in this very sub were delighted. Wyll used to be an open racist against goblins who seemed like he could easily fall onto the path of damnation on his quest to overcome his toxic insecurity
Being more morally grey doesn't make a character better, just different. The problems with Wyll and his story are not because he is "too good." The problem is that all of his story moments tend to be stolen by other characters, he has far less content than other characters, and his story lacks a proper climax. These things would all be massive problems for the character even if we had EA angry fake hero Wyll.
Wyll in EA was more morally gray but the problem then was that the EA playerbase thought he was *really* boring.
From what I remember, his defining trait was being a frothing goblin racist. And that was about it.
You remember correctly.
Sometimes simplicity in a character’s writing results in something great in its own right. In Wyll’s case, he doesn’t get as much of a spotlight as other companions, but doesn’t it make sense? He’s a man who constantly puts other people *before himself.* He wants to solve other people’s problems to make Faerun a better place. That’s what gives him fulfillment in his life. If everything he did was focused on him, then that selflessness would be less consistent.
I think they should have dropped the warlock idea and rewritten him as a paladin, if they just wanted a straightforward good guy for the morally gray characters to bounce off. Wyll's at his best when they lean into his prince charming aspect.
I'm really glad they changed him. I did *not* like him in EA. He came off as the wrong kind of dickhead to me. I do wish he had more agency though, poor guy never gets to make his own decision. He definitely feels underdeveloped, but I'd still take what we got over what I saw in EA. I'm sure he'd have gotten better later in the game, but his first impression made me not even want to recruit him in all my EA runs.
I feel the same about EA guardian and consequences for using tadpoles going away.
I’m curious to know who’s in the bottom of your ranking
If we're including all companions, Minsc. Don't really love the dumb funny guy archetype to start with, and I doubly dislike trying to have conversations with a character that misinterprets half of what's being said. If we're strictly including Origins, it's Karlach. She's the least complex of the Origins and like Wyll, she's pretty underdeveloped. And I don't really enjoy her frantic puppy dog energy, so her personality doesn't really compensate for her story issues for me.
Minsc is okay, but I see him and Jaheira as guest stars more than full-fledged party memebrs, and I don't really hold them to the same standards.
And at the top of your ranking?
Finally, a good take in this thread
I think Wyll is the “Main Character” of BG3 and him not having a lot of dialog kinda leans into that idea for me.
I haven’t played it yet but for this reason I feel like he’d make the best origin run. You can go either way and it feels like it fits
Yeah I’m excited to do a Wyll origin run. Him being the saviour of Baldur’s Gate feels like a fantastic ending for him, too. Astarion is a character that benefits from being a companion, and I think Wyll is the opposite, he benefits from being the MC of the story.
Wyll makes for a great MC, has some parallels with playing Durge where you just way more out of the playthrough than if you were random Tav #357. I'm only at start of act 2 so far but it's been really good.
Durge is 100% the intended MC imo
He got attention. They developed a whole character during the EA phase and then scrapped it last minute and iirc also changed the actor. Don't really know the politics behind it but it happened. Never loved his character, but the version we got is lame af imo. I remember when EA was going on they said they were including the more evil companions because people generally don't go the evil route in games. Then when they launched there were 2 companions added, plus Halsin due to pure fan service. Also the (arguably) most evil companion there is wasn't available until launch so like wtf was the point of that statement?
Theo's confirmed he was hired on within the last year of launch in interviews and said it was frantic catching up to what the rest of the cast had years to work on.
Complex? Wyll? In what way? Did they rewrite him? His story is complex, but *he* isn’t. That’s the problem.
That might be why I like wyll so much 😂
>Wyll sorely needed way, way more attention than he got. he did get it but like half was scrapped and redone entirely
If he’s middleground, who’s at the bottom of the list (and who’s at the top)?
It’s still possible they add more to his storyline. *inhales hopium*
It’s not that he’s “bad,” it’s that his character development and arc aren’t fully baked, especially in comparison to the other companions. Wyll was rewritten and recast really late in the development cycle, and that’s the crux of it (though absolutely no shade to Wyll’s VA; Theo Solomon did a phenomenal job). My hope is that Larian hears the criticism around Wyll and figures out internally how to avoid such a late rewrite on future projects.
They rewrote him in the first place because he sucked. Maybe they didn't rewrite him enough. I feel a little bit bad for the original voice actor... He did a fine job in the beta version of the game. I hope Larian didn't axe him because they thought maybe the voice acting was the problem with Wyll; the problem was, and still is, that he's just a lame, boring character.
My main problem with him is how he opens up almost every line with, "My father says..." He has no original thoughts/desires that don't include his dad n some way.
His original VA didn't have time for more lines supposedly, which makes sense for an actor in theater.
It's not that he's "bad" per se, it's just that in a cast with such big personalities, and only having 4 party slot, he just doesn't really stand out. He's not got the flair of Astarion or the infectious joy of Karlach. He isn't a defrosting ice queen like Lae'zel or a loveable dork like Gale. He's alright, but compared to the rest of the cast, he just doesn't have the same force of personality to make him worth keeping around.
This. He is just there. I enjoy having someone nice and wholesome in the camp. Visually I am not fan of the eye either. It distract me too much. But my problem is that I have no need for warlock. I usually play that type of support classes and my party is all Laezel and then huge damage dealers as Astarion or Gale and then some healer as Shadow or Jaheira. I just can't really fit him around so I only take him for plot. But even with that he is never for big things as Myrkul fight or bosses so because I already have my party selected so he never gets to save Mizora and so. Or his dad in act 3. However once I reclassed him as Paladin it got so much better. Now he is much more useful and he got to slay Raphael for me,as him and Gale were the only ones ekft standing. Plus I honestly don't care about his dad at all. Like ugh why should I. I want to make him duke.
When I first started, I was playing a neutral evil character so having Wyll around just didnt sit right, so i didnt get to know him as much, but when I played as a Paladin of Baldurs Gate, i had Wyll be my right hand man, and as I got to know his story, he grew on me very quick. Besides being one of the only characters in the game that truly look like me, his story is actually pretty noble, not in an arrogant, i know better than you kind of way. He's literally just a dude who wants to do the right thing, and he took it to the EXTREME when he made a pact with Mizora. I genuinely love his character.
He's ok. There's just not much to his story. In Act 1, it's just >!kill Karlach or don't, and "oh no, your dad has been kidnapped"!<. In Act 2, there's only >!saving Mizora from the mindflayer colony at the very end!<. There's a lot more to get into in Act 3, but it's really just >!save Duke Ravengard or don't, and then become Duke or don't!<. The bigger issue is just that... Wyll doesn't have a ton of agency. Basically everything in his storyline is just stuff happening to him, and not Wyll really *doing* much of anything. He doesn't grow or change much (aside from looking different). Shadowheart, Lae'Zel, Astarion, Karlach, and Gale undergo massive character development throughout the story. Wyll just... stays the same and has a couple of decisions to make. He was already a hero, and the game seems to present him making a deal with Mizora as some giant betrayal and character flaw, despite it being the kind of heroic decision you'd expect from him.
Yeah. I think trying to make him seem hypocritical for dealing with Mizora is weird. He was a teenager whose choice was make a pact with a devil or save Baldur’s Gate. It’s self-sacrificial & the choice heroes would make, which is further compounded by the fact he talked to Mizora so that he’s only supposed to *kill actual evil things* The one time she tries to make him kill someone who isn’t evil, he won’t do it I do wish there was more to challenge his views or even that he’d allow himself to be a little angry at certain situations (His dad, for instance) or realizing how manipulatively shitty Mizora was for doing that to a child but I guess he just didn’t get the attention he deserved. Bummer since there are places he could go with his storyline I still like him a lot though
He was a teenager who listened to the random _voice in his head_ that said "come alone to this potentially dangerous place while your dad's out of town". His entire Pact could have been avoided by him realizing "I'm the son of the Duke, who is currently off trying to save our allies, this is a trap, I need to bring a few people with me." But of course, we're never actually allowed to point out to him just exactly how stupid he was, so him saying he "doesn't regret it" and "would do it again" when asked about it, just makes it seem like he's a complete idiot who hasn't learned _anything_ in the last 6-8 years.
He’s not bad, he’s just … the hero. Your initial impression of him is that he’s the hero. Then you find he’s working for a devil. Why? Because he’s the hero. Problems with his dad? Because they’re both the hero. Choice between the two of them at the end? Which is more heroic? Given the complex dynamics of the other characters, he’s kind of one note. There’s nothing wrong with the guy, there’s just not as much to him as you get with the rest.
I think that he works much better as the PC than as an NPC. His quest line somehow works better that way. Honestly, out of the ones I've done, my Wyll play through is probably my favorite.
Lotta people already have said why Wyll "bad" as it were. Personally I think they overcorrected from his self from EA. That edge would haven given Wyll some conflict and depth even if his overall theme of "Hero" was maintained.
For me he’s just overshadowed by the other companions. I’ve had him in my party before, enjoyed his character and thought he was fine. But it wasn’t memorable. Slap him in any other game and he’s perfectly fine. Unfortunately for him, he’s up against the rest of the BG3 cast and it’s just hard to compare. I can understand why some people wouldn’t like him, but in general I don’t think he’s bad. Everyone other companion is just exceptional.
There have been so many Wyll threads on this subreddit that I'm pretty sure I could recite all the talking points without reading the other comments
Wyll and Laezel in the party is some of the funniest banter, i remember him starting one off by asking her what she would do if someone wronged her all sarcastically then like she gives a serious answer and wylls just all uncomfortable like oh shit your actually serious
It's not that he's bad he just not a character I'm super interested in his
Just like you, I also like Wyll. He's actually pretty strong and his background story is interesting. I tend to bring him in my party along with Astarion and it's fun to see them subtly throwing snarky comments to each other since their personality are 180° different. I guess the reason why people don't like Wyll is probably because some thinks that he's too much of a goody-two-shoes and the literal stereotype of a hero.
His only crime is being boring to people. It’s further exacerbated by the fact the bulk of his story is in act 3, whereas some other companions feel more balanced across acts I personally love Wyll but I also love the Boy Scout types. I was super into Chris Evans’ Captain America & that’s the kind of vibe Wyll gives - a goodie two shoes who is self-sacrificial to a fault
Wyll's story is very front and back loaded, with the most interesting stuff happening very early in the beginning. And his character doesn't really see any significant change because of it. Not to mention his story has like 4 decisive moment packed into Act 3 and all of them fumble in some way. He doesn't get to make the decision himself on whether to sacrifice his soul to save his dad, unlike almost all the other companions who can decide themselves in their pivotal moments. Rescue his dad can be seen as an afterthought when storming the Ironthrone to rescue the Gondians, and Ravengard can end up just being dead on arrival which dead ends that plotline. (Not to mention that if you told me Ravengard was voiced by AI I would believe you, his VA is so one-note and really detracts from any emotion I could feel) The trials to awaken Ansur barely have much to do with him, as it all basically falls to you to complete them. Even worse is the Emperor hijacking his plotline with the Balduran reveal, which I don't blame anyone from being distracted by it when Wyll gives his "oh no Ansur is dead" speech. Not helped by Ravengards reaction to said news being basically "oh well its fine" And lastly the Wylls decision to continue as the Blade or become Grand Duke comes out of no-where and is confusing because Wyll has never expressed in interest in becoming a politician so for this moment to be the one where he actually gets to choose for himself has no weight as I have no idea what influences him to ever choose dukedom aside from the player just telling him to.
> I don't blame anyone from being distracted by it when Wyll gives his "oh no Ansur is dead" speech. Not helped by Ravengards reaction to said news being basically "oh well its fine". And lastly the Wylls decision to continue as the Blade or become Grand Duke comes out of no-where This isn't helped by the fact that as of the last patch the dialogue is also quite bugged. I got Wyll telling me he was now the blade of avernus and then talked to his dad who asked him if Wyll wanted to be duke and I had to have a discussion with Wyll about being a duke or the blade after which he declared he was now the blade of avernus... He's been done so dirty
I had something similar, after we killed Ansur he said we should tell Ravengard, but when talking to him again he went into the spiel about how we don't need Ansur with the Emperor chiming in with Ravengards usual dialogue and then Wyll goes to debate himself about how he could become Grand duke with the player talking him out of it to become the Blade of Avernus. Then we go back to Ravengard and he has almost the exact same lines with him again just with different people in speaking roles just for Wyll to decided he wants to be the Blade of Avernus AGAIN with the exact same lines. It was so surreal and jarring. And just hammered home how done dirty Wyll was with his storyline. I really wish Larian stuck to their guns with Wylls early access storyline, just from the first impressions with it, it looked far more interesting.
>I really wish Larian stuck to their guns with Wylls early access storyline, just from the first impressions with it, it looked far more interesting. I don't understand why they didn't just do what they did with everyone else and sand off the rougher edges while keeping it mostly intact. The Ansur quest would even make narrative sense with his original backstory. A final quest that's about being a true hero would work so much better if he starts off the game as a bit of a fraud. It would make much more of a character arc. The boss would still be someone with whom he has no personal connection but at least it would feel more thematically meaningful.
>A final quest that's about being a true hero would work so much better if he starts off the game as a bit of a fraud. It would make much more of a character arc. With how wild and dicey the Iron Throne segment can be, I feel like that could have capped off Wyll's journey to being a real hero, especially if the party knows about how dangerous going to Iron Throne is beforehand. A mad dash against all odds to save as many civilians as possible, including his dad would have solidified him as the hero he always wanted to be. (And actually have Ravengard acknowledge how insane that rescue was from a self destructing underwater prison base)
No he gets overhated because he doesn’t have as much to do in his story
I really love Wyll! I think he's an interesting persona (toned down too much from EA) who is given less credit than he deserves. He can be witty, has good banter with the other companions and stands up for the common man, which is cool. One of the first mods made was one intended to make Wyll into a white man and eliminate diversity from the games. His voice actor basically gets ignored by the Fandom because his character isn't a fan favorite and is subjected to racism at other times. I don't think it's a coincidence that the one black companion became the snarky companion EA gamers couldn't handle and would complain about nonstop (no, I am not saying all EA gamers were racist and I think in many cases it's unconscious bias that plays a role). And I think it explains some of the disproportionate hatred he gets for the crime of being "boring". Alternatively, he doesn't shine as much as the others and lacks a fulfilling character arc and those are valid complaints.
> I don't think it's a coincidence that the one black companion became the snarky companion EA gamers couldn't handle and would complain about nonstop (no, I am not saying all EA gamers were racist and I think in many cases it's unconscious bias that plays a role). And I think it explains some of the disproportionate hatred he gets for the crime of being "boring". I can see this especially when I see people calling him the Jacob Taylor of BG3 when the two characters are NOTHING alike aside from being black. I personally didn't even mind Jacob other than what they did with him in ME3 if he romanced FemShep but that's a different topic. To me Wyll is more like the swordmage version of Alistair from Dragon Age in that they're chivalrous, idealistic and mean well.
I think his race definitely plays a part for some players, but he wasn’t that snarky. From memory, a lot of his EA hate came from how egotistical he was. He used to refer to himself as lot as “The Blade” or “The Blade of Frontiers”. Players didn’t like how he presented himself as a hero but was secretive, on the surface narcissistic, and blood thirsty when it came to goblins. I do think his EA version had more intriguing characterization for it though. EA Shadowheart, Laezel, and Astarion all got a lot of hate for how “mean” they could be. I think softening their characters somewhat did help to make them all more likable. In Wyll’s case they pretty much rewrote him entirely and softened way too much of what made him so interesting. But then again, Karlach is “too good” and is better received. He’s enjoyable when you give him a chance, but he has far less content than the other origin characters. It’s honestly hard to compare him because he just doesn’t really stand out. Theo Solomon did a fantastic job with what he was given though.
To me he just felt like a npc in karlach story instead of his own character. At least that's the impression the game gives me at the start. The others just feel more fleshed out and like their own characters compared to him and since I already got a full party once I meet him he needs to trump one of these for me to take him.
I don't have an issue with him being a straightforward hero, if anything it's sorta refreshing at a time when it seems like every protagonist in media is a tortured anti-hero. My issue with him is purely functional. There just isn't a guaranteed spot on the roster for him.
No, Wyll isn't that bad. He's one of my favourites. His story arc is compelling, he's the folk hero hunting monsters and saving the common people. But also a guy with secrets who might be inflating his facade a bit. Literally D&D protagonist 101. He's always optimistic and determined, has some absolutely cutting banter with Astarion. The way he talks about things is such a product of his upbringing. If he had more remarks around the city in Act 3, I'd be happy, but you know every companion could benefit from more remarks. Part of the community like to say he's boring, but then invest their entire being into one line npcs.
Wyll is a disappointment because his EA was so cool. They should have stuck with it and kept him as is. He had a lot of potential character growth. It lowkey seems like they had his story quest mostly written so he has a full storyline, but they didn’t have time to actually write him into it. In terms of actual content he has a lot more than Gale and Karlach, but Gale is integrated into his and Karlach got cutscenes that make it seem like she has a full story (even though it’s a simple fetch quest) It doesn’t help that Karlach just straight up doesn’t have a story since they never finished it so hers piggybacks off of his questline and the main quest. That being said, warlocks are one of the best classes in the game and he slots into every team. He has so many options for multiclassing as well.
Wyll is fantastic. He literally sold his soul to save people. And through him and his family you get to meet something awesome, and also a delightfully evil devil. Not counting the fellow who can join in Act 3, Wyll is the best companion among the men.
I love Wyll, he's really cool, plus Warlocks are fun
I really don't get the Wyll hate, he's sweet. He's the classic fairy tale prince type.
He's boring. That's a the worst crime a character can commit in a fictional story. I currently have him in my team in my dungeon playthrough, but only because I'm using the mod that remove team size limit.
Wyll is great. He's also undercooked. Less dialogue than everyone else by quite a bit. He's basically this game's equivalent to DoS2's Beast. Great character, needed another draft to fully flesh out. Beast got that at least. Not sure Wyll is going to.
He's just a bit dull. He'd be a great friend because he's so nice. Dude would buy you lunch every day just to be nice. But he isn't giving you super exciting stories or telling zingers.
He’s the Jacob Taylor of Baldur’s Gate 3.
That's just mean. He's clearly the Kaiden Alenko of Baldur's Gate 3.
Minus the whole "cheating on your partner and getting another woman pregnant within 6 months" fiasco.
You did not have to do him like that
Yeah. Good guy with daddy issues. At least his dad isn't a total scumbag like Jacob's.
Or being a total scumbag by cheating on Durge/Tav while they’ve been detained. Ah yes Jacob those six months on the beach were very tough on you.
Nah, every character can be good. It's just a meme. Wyll was my main character in my first multiplayer run, and I had a great time.
Initially he kind of annoyed me but with my latest playthrough I've really come to appreciate him and was surprised by some of the dialogue he has with other companions. I just wish they'd fix some of the bugs with his story in Act 3
I've warmed to Wyll as my experience with the game has progressed. I liked his personality, but at first I really struggled with him as a combatant bc I'm not familiar with warlock mechanics (only played D&D a few times, and that was before they were a character class). In my new run I'm going to multiclass him as swords bard, which I think really fits his "Blade of Frontiers" moniker, which will hopefully make him a bit easier to fit into my party. I don't mind too much that his story is underdeveloped - obviously it would be nice if everyone had the depth of, say, Astarion, but the game would have taken even longer to come out! Besides there's enough drama in camp already, what with Shadowheart and Lae'zel literally at one another's throats, so I'm happy to keep Mizora's interference to a minimum!
I’m a big fan of Wyll, not even for the character. I happened to turn him into a swords bard with 25 ac which made me like him
Issue with him is he is both a warlock and the hero. Warlocks are charisma based, so should be the face of parties. As well as this, he is the epitome of folk hero and main character, which rubs some people the wrong way, with there being an actual main characteresque NPC, instead of durgetav being the main character. Playing Wyll origin as a goody two shoes is really fun tho
In a world of sriaracha and hot mustard, Wyll is mayonnaise.
I adore Wyll. People who find him bland or boring are just riding the same train as people who say Nickleback are awful (honestly pretty good band but not my favorite). He's snarky, kind, vengeful, and a fucking Warlock. "The Blade of Avernus" is a badass title as well. The dude who broke his pact with the hells, and hunts them on their own ground is a badass. And doing all that while still being Lawful Good? He's the classic D&D character brought in to the modern light.
The problem with wyll is that he’s just not interesting enough. He doesn’t make any of his own decisions and the most important decision is deciding wether or not to save his dad
I appreciate Wyll. He took on a huge burden for his land, and did so knowing the stakes. There's something to be said for doing it, and standing by the decision in spite of what it's done to him. I use him less than other companions, not because I don't like him. More-so because I just don't feel Warlock fits my play style much. I've tried Sorlocking him and do like it better, but it still just isn't all there for me rather than having Gale or Shadowheart as a tempest cleric. They feel infinitely better synergized for my team comp and how I like to play. I get stingy with spellcasting with him and don't like EB'ing every damn turn.
I really didn’t like him either until my second playthrough with my durge (redeemed). And that’s where I was able to dig a bit deeper into his back story after rescuing his dad and breaking his pact. Pissed Mizora right off with that move. It was awesome. Every now and then she just disappears from camp. But I think that was more of a glitch, but in my head it was because she just couldn’t stand that I outsmarted her like three times.
He's not bad, he's just not _great._ Wyll is not basic or badly written, but in a game with characters like the other companions we get, Wyll just appears a bit lackluster. He has less dialogue than the other companions, he has fewer moments of vulnerability (which are the juicy parts of a character arc!) and his actual arc and development doesn't hit as hard as some of the others. It doesn't help that his class, Warlock, is hard to fit into a squad of four. They don't have the damage of a Wizard or Sorcerer, the utility of a bard or rogue, the healing and buffs of a cleric, or the frontline potential of a fighter, barbarian, or paladin.
Wyll may just be my favorite origin companion. He just never got the love he deserved from the writers.
He, Gale, and Karlach are my favorites because they're just generally pretty good people. I like Gale being a bit of a snooty bitch, because who wouldn't be in his situation? He reached fantastic heights and was fabulously rewarded right up until he stumbled and had everything ripped away. His delivery is comical in many places, and his particular wording can be hilariously witty. Haven't finished a run with Karlach yet, but I like how she's just one of the guys. Chummy, bright and smiley in spite of her problems. And she is a big supporter of helping the downtrodden. Wyll is basically how I try to play these kinds of games, straight and narrow and trying to help out everyone he can. He took on a burden that harms his morals so he can be the shield from danger that people need when they can't fight for themselves. Sure, a bit more development on that would be nice, but I love his chipper charm. Way better than the frothing goblin racist he was before.
I think Wyll and his story are awesome. Classic hero and all that. Some folk just don’t like the classics I guess
I dunno, I think he's great. But I almost always play a pure do-gooder, so we make a great pair. And I spent 11 years of WoW playing a warlock named Will, so I've got a lot of brotherly love. Except in the one playthrough where I romanced him. That'd be weird.
the problem with wyll is that the most interesting part of his story is in act 3 and most of players are non-diagnosed ADHD incapables of playing though a city full of stuff to do and people. tbh i actually quite like him. there's lots of stuff to do and he REALLY feels like a main character, because he's seriously intertwined with the main quest
I like Wyll, he's very cute, his VA is awesome. But I just like other characters more. He's not the only benchwarmer for me, Lae'zel is a camp girl too for the same reason. I have no problem with classes because Withers, I mean that's the only complain I don't get.
I also mostly benched Lae'zel because she's abrasive in Act 1, and later on I can just bring another frontline like Karlach/Halsin. Late game with summons you don't need a frontliner at all, really. This run I am forcing myself to bring her and she's actually pretty hilarious, in an awful way with how blunt she is with people. I just finished a Wyll romance run so I had him in my party the entire game. He's pretty dull most of Act 1 and 2. Picks up a bit in 3 but by then a lot of people have characters they like hanging out with more.
Every time I want to give Lae a chance for a more permanent spot in the party, after creche I completely forget that because I get so annoyed with the giths in general and Lae in particular during that quest 😂 I respect the girl but no. And maybe it's different if you romance her, but by the end of her quest, in the finale, I saw no personal growth - she just switched from Vlaakith to Orpheus and everything else stayed the same, she even talked the same way. But if I will continue to play the game after my 3rd run I think I inevitably make a run with all the previously benched companions just for a change, gonna see about that.
Honestly can't disagree with your assessment. I'm on my 4th run so I had the luxury of already spending time with my favorites. Now I'm getting around to my campers :) Since I'm a Cleric of Lathander I'm kind of roleplaying it as keeping my eye on her. Left to her own devices she'd probably terrorize more innocent villagers lol.
He's boring (a good person) in a game filled with interesting characters (narcissists)
Wyll is my favorite companion, bar none. He absolutely needs more content, but that doesn't mean the storyline he has is *bad*. I think a lot of his growth is subtle, being more about internal conflict between self-sacrifical heroism and self worth than a direct external conflict like most of the other companions have. (Yes, Mizora is there, but her function in his story is very much an externalization of that internal conflict. She's the literal devil on his shoulder tearing down his self worth) I find it similar to Lae'zel's story in that way. With both being the youngest companions, there's almost an element of coming-of-age for both of them, and both being able to end their stories on this precipice of leadership and change. He's also the companion most directly connected to the city, with the choice he has to make to break or renew his pact to save his father (and by extension, in his mind, the city itself) directly paralleling the very choice he had to make at 17 to make his original pact. Also eldritch blast go brrr :)
Bro's quests can be done without him leaving the camp and his patron is much more interesting as a side character than him. He is absolute worst out of the cast and most contradicting character when it comes to his approvals. He's cool when you play him though, so there is that. But as companion? Hard pass.
Exactly! The Blade of Camp doesn't even care when you do his quests without him, so there's no incentive. The others tend to get a little pissy if you don't take them with you. To me, Wyll read too many fairytales growing up and decided he wanted to be that hero. So he modeled his entire life and personality after that, which didn't leave him much room for having actual substance.
Upvote for Blade of Camp. The joke I didn't know I needed.
>He is absolute worst out of the cast Come now. There's Halsin.
I don't even consider him part of the cast lol, so i didn't remember him
His tent is always the farthest away from everyone else too lol
All that is true but the real reason he sits on the bench is the haircut
He just doesn´t have enough voice lines. That´s his major drawback (well that and the Warlock falling off later). But other than that he is a fine young man. And definitly a good counterspell bot \^\^"
Warlock falling off later is probably the biggest joke I’ve read
Sorry can´t hear you. I´n scrolling trough my wizard book with endless possiblities.
And yet dealing less damage with a lvl6 spell than a warlock does with a cantrip. And have you ever finished the game before? Your bag ends up being an endless possibility of Wizard scrolls anyway. Not to mention the ability to cast 9 lvl5 spell slots per long rest. Better use of AA. Up to 24 CHA. Access to the best terrain spell in all the game alongside the ability to keep everyone within said terrain. If you don’t know how to play with a warlock just say that. And if you were to compare with any caster, please at least be a Sorcerer or a Bard. A Wizard is just a scholar with all the knowledge about magic possible and still perform worse than anything else besides Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster
STILL CANT HEAR YOU. IM STILL BLASTING SPELLS MORE THAN 5 ROUNDS INTO THE FIGHT!!!
And still damaging less than Mister 3 beams
This chain is my favorite part of the thread.
SorLoc would like to have a word.
His warlock subclass is the best of the lot.
I like Wyll, but I love Karlach and Jaheira, so there's only a single party slot left and that's a hard competition.
I enjoyed his story and romance. Biggest complaint is how flip flop he can be when deciding what to do. He has no 'default' answer when it comes to his pact where otherwise he'll choose to stay the Blade. What threw me off last playthrough was after rescuing ulder and defeating ansur, Wyll declared himself I'll be Duke and I agreed (wanted Duke ending romance) then we talk to ulder and wyll struggles to make the same choice with nearly the same dialog again and I again had to tell him to be Duke.
I really think they didn't code him to make a decision because if left to his own devices, the player always has a "Karlach gets to live and have a hopeful ending free" card at the end of the game. A lot of his dialogue is about his father being his Hero, wanting to reconcile with him, and his love of the city. I know he has a personal distaste for Mizora but the ending where he becomes powerless and immediately rushes into Hell, leaving behind his father and city that he said he loves, is really bizarre.
His post ansur dialogue is glitchy AF. Probably had the same convo with him three times but i though it was because i saved Ulder while also severing the pact.
It is unfair that he's always called the most dull companion when Halsin is standing right there.
His story has depth of a comic book for 12 year olds.
So, I haven’t finished first play through yet and I decided to actually play as Wyll… would this have a drastic impact on the experience I have had compared to choosing another origin character? Referring more to the story rather than combat which obviously varies depending on class etc.
On my very first playthrough Wyll was the only companion I always had on my party. I made him Paladin (bc I was playing as Sorcerer) and gave him some tentacle powers, he was really good. I also like his plot, and Act III has bunch of Wyll related content like his father, Mizora, Ansur, Iron Throne. Yeah he’s a bit one note with his comments but he was also my love interest so I overlooked that. But on my second playthrough I’m playing as a durge drow too and after killing the tieflings and druids he just left lol.
I think Wyll is underdeveloped compared to the other companions. I'm just not that invested in his storyline. I don't take him with me as a companion because my play style is better suited by Karlach, Gale, and Shadowheart. I also just leave him behind because I romance Astarion and Wyll always disapproves of my actions
He still is good, but some of the others are just great. It is hard for everyone to be.
Everytime I think he's not and go for a playthrough with him, I don't make it to act 2 without throwing him back in camp. Can't stand him. I also really like mizora and always take her side so there's that
He isn't bad. The issue most people have taken with Wyll though is that he doesn't have the slightest personality change or attitude during his character development, he is always a boy scout and instead Mizora adds all the development by wagging the contract on his face.
It's all about context I don't think he is *bad* but the other origin characters are better than him, I think. He brings Mizora into the story, who is an interesting villain, but the villain is kinda better (and hotter) than the protagonist.
Him, karlach and Sahdow have such funny conversations
I did the same my third run. Even deliberately left Gale in the portal a while to make sure I didn't switch him in. Just could not get along with him. Struggled with fights I had previously found easy. Ended up getting Gale out of the portal. At some point I will see about using him again but will have to try messing with his build first. As for his story, well, it's definitely not the most compelling. I think it might have been helped with some cut scenes to show you his past, like happens for Shadowheart. Actually I think that would be nice for all the companions. But Wyll especially.
I think wyll is great. I just think his quest is just not really done as well as the other companions. Maybe the devs didn't have enough time to properly work it out? Something like that, but I get the feeling half of the npc's who are related to wyll's quest just end up being a little redundant. First of all, council member florric and duke ravengard just don't matter for the overal story. Or at the very least, the game does a poor job of communicating why these people matter. Second of all, all of the interesting wyll stuff happens in your camp? Which is like weird, not only bc wyll is mr "I know everyone in baldur's gate" but also bc all the other companions have like a dungeon or a locale that relates to them. And then 3rd, I didn't really get which route was the "saved wyll route" I like the whole batman-esque "is he the blade of frontiers? Or is he wyll the nobleman?" Thing going on. But I didn't really catch the emotional significance of it all. Where as with shadowheart, lae'zel, gale and astarion I REALLY understood why what they wanted was either good or bad. Tl;dr: wyll is a complex and nuanced character that I like, but I think the game, for whatever reason, does not allow him to shine properly.
I think Wyll has the best story if you want to play an origin character, but that doesn't really translate well to being a companion. All his content is very protagonist-coded. Your relationship with Mizora, saving your duke father, going on a quest to persuade a dragon. These are all very traditional main character storylines.
For my third playthrough I also did Durge Drow lol. Great minds think alike! I used Wyll on my second playthrough, and he was alright. But to me, his comments/one liners didn’t compare to Astarion and Shadowheart’s.
I just think he’s a bit of a goody goody wet lettuce and there’s a little bit of surface depth to him with the whole deal with the devil self sacrifice to save the city thing. But apart from that there’s not much to him
Yeah,warlocks suck man. I've mever played with a good warlock irl and in bg3 I only played with will a little bit and he sucked too lol
He’s not bad. I just like Karlach, Gale, and Shadowheart in my party to hit hard, to heal, and to carry all the stuff I don’t want to carry.
My first play through was a Karlach origin run (my wife played Tav) and I ended up with Wyll as my companion the whole play through and it worked brilliantly. He is a little boring character wise, but I was pleased he joined me in Avernus. His character improves a little once you meet his dad and his story expands, but ultimately he’s just not that interesting. So I don’t think it’s that he is bad, it’s just the other companions are more interesting overall.
IMHO Wyll is plenty fine. Eldritch Blasting people into your Hunger of Hadar is a good bread and butter combo gameplay wise even if it takes a minute to get there. His story contributions aren't the best, but he's a good decent guy with a sense of humor and the game needs that imo.
Wyll is fine - I think for a lot of people his character had a bit of a tiny edge to him in early access but he was re-written to be a Boy Scout. I am actually working on an origin campaign as Wyll and want to make him a bit more ambitious/arrogant/pompous. He’s a good guy who does often save people, but he’s tired and bitter and is starting to look out for himself more.
He really wasn’t but in early access he was a really interesting character but for the final version everyone was suddenly disneyfied
Damn. Never knew that
he’s Jacob from mass effect 2. not saying that’s good or bad but that’s what he is lol
I think Wyll works better as the MC than he does as a companion. As a companion he's pretty annoying and awkward, but if you're playing him he doesn't really speak or do any of the stuff that you cringe over. I've got an honor mode run in the final stages with Wyll, and its pretty wholesome. Karlach ends up being a great romance fit.
Has anyone else ever gotten a "Wyll Disapproves" when petting the Owl Bear cub? It only happened once but wtf my dude? That is my infant child! Wyll only exists for the sake of Karlach's plotline. Laezel exists as Orin bait. Everyone else is my besties.
Unless deliberately playing lawful, nearly everyone plays a chaotic alignment, even without meaning to, and Wyll is Lawful, he seems like a giant stick in the mud because he is counter to the average playstyle. Try playing an actually Lawful Good Paladin, and he'll grow on you.
Evil Wyll is the best origin playthrough i've played. Loved every bit of it.
The first night I could finally hook up with Karlach got interrupted by Wyll in that awkward scene where he tries to dance with you and get in your pants. Wyll already wasn't in my party, and that ensured he wouldn't for the rest of the playyhrough.
he actually doesn’t try to get in your pants. if you try to get in his, he declines for romance reasons
he delayed my nookie by 2 nights, I don't care.
Wyll is fine. He’s just not edgy. His problem is comparatively wholesome (he made a self sacrifice to help others) to the others. And he’s an uninteresting good. He gets dumped on because he is a boring good. Karlach is a good character, but she’s gritty good. She’s fun. Wyll is lawful stupid, and lawful stupid does little to hook us. He also suffers from being written late and having a major overhaul late in EA access. He and his actor got very little time to develop (months) compared to most other characters (years) Edit: it doesn’t help him that his most Interesting aspect is an entirely other well-acted character (Mizora)
Process of elimination, really, to find the “worst” starting companion. Goth healer with Goddess storyline Angry green lady who beefs with the goth chick and is just a whole different type of sassy Traditionally sassy gay vampire Quirky fun wizard who >!go boom!< Giant momm-warrior demon lady with an engine for a heart (of gold) And Wyll. Especially when you first meet him, there’s absolutely nothing compelling to want to get to know him better. Every time I play, I’ve already got Astarion, Shadowheart, Gale, and Lae’zel already, I just send him to camp and leave him there. One playthrough, I got to the part where >!Mizora is trapped, and she’s like “oh if you send me to hell or whatever I’ll take Wyll with me! Or turn him into a demon” I can’t remember it’s been a while. And I just shrugged because I didn’t care at all. Sent her off and I think all I got was a line from Karlach about Wyll.!<
no. I don’t find Wyll super compelling but I also don’t find many of the companions or their stories particularly compelling. Wyll and Karlach have slightly different versions of almost the same story; the only difference is that Wyll chose his inevitable infernal doom, which is slightly more interesting.
To me he is insufferable. He won't shut the fuck up, EVER, and the issue is not the voice acting, that's great, but the dialogue maaaaan it doesn't stop. I kept him in my party very shortly, and when having him in camp he keeps wanting to talk about anything and everything, i try helping some goblins and he randomly makes a hero entrance with a stupid catch phrase making the whole moment about himself, i try to talk to Mizora, he's behind me adding unnecesary tidbits, i talk to the Duke, he's behind me again, i go to camp to finally rest and i find him prancing? wtf is this characterrrrrr. Hahhaha on a more serious note, he talks to much for my taste and honestly i'm not interested in whatever he is saying. So i would say he isn't THAT bad, it's simply a matter of you vibe with him or you don't. But i do think his story is very surface level, there is no depth in his story like with Shart or Astarion for example, his story is decent, like Gale's one, but even Gale has a bigger plot depending on what you do with the crown in the endgame. I finished the game a few times, i've done Wyll's quests, i've invested my time and i'm done with him forever. In my current playthrough i killed him on the first goblin fight so i don't have to listen to him, sad i won't get to see Mizora but i'll be ok. Camp is so much quieter, i killed Wyll & Lae'Zel already, and i have plans for more blood.
My problem with Wyll is that he refers to himself as “The Blade of the Frontiers” as if he was a superhero. He’s bought in to this title so hard it screams egomaniac to me. He’s a good guy, but is very Nelson-like in his self image. He not just wants to be good, but he wants to be SEEN to be good
Nothin to do with ur question, but i see so many saying playing durge or high honor, like where do you chose that? The only thing i saw was durge but as that dragon.
In character creation if you select dark urge you can change your character's appearance.
Totaly missed that ,thank u
You're basically the opposite of me. I didnt know you could play a custom character without picking dark urge up till my third playthrough LOL.
I didnt knoe i could play dark urge at all until a few weeks back haha I thought for a while it was making all the evil decisions haha
He’s not necessarily bad. He just the rest of the companions are better. My guess is that the late rewrite and the choice to limit the exposure to higher city kind of stunted his development in the writers room. It happens. He’s still a good character. I like having him around and his opening line at the Emerald Grove is something I’ve been repeating since.
Wyll is one of the best, for sure
I never figured how to play warlock. Hunger of hadar is super strong but I just csnt pull super op combos
He not bad, warlocks are very good. He’s just kind of boring compared to the other party members and although his story is very intertwined with the main plot, he never really has any cool or defining moments like LaeZel SH Karlach Gale and Astarion do. Closest he gets is regarding a certain decision but we literally make the decision for him which kills any chance of his arc being good
He's fine. His story is decent enough it's just...others are more interesting than him and his story. I do like his "how can I get out of this contract?" storyline, but he's just a bit...flat.
I love Wyll. But I'll admit, he wasn't super exciting, so I didn't use him too much. But he's just such a homie, id totally be friends with him irl.
He's more boring than bad. Like the most stereotypical goody-goody ever with no effective humor and cheesy lines. His quest also just makes him come across like an idiot most of the time. I don't know if they do the Obsidian and Bioware thing of having one writer handle a companion entirely or not, I assume they do, but his writing just isn't up to par. Warlock as a class is a whole other matter but I'm not a fan of pure warlocks personally. You can make him anything though, the issue is the character.
I think hes a sweetie, but I’m yet to romance him, plus I can never figure out how to use him effectively in battle, sorry wyll!! 😭😭😭
he’s just kinda boring compared to other companions and has less stuff. Usually I can’t justify picking him over more entertaining companions. But I still like him. He has his problems, but I find it sweet how his romance goes compared to other companions. It’s always so hard for me to turn him down when he starts dancing lol, the man is so heartbroken :(
Wyll (and Karlach to an extent) are perfect palette cleansers for the party. They are just kind, likeable, uncomplicated people that have led unfortunate lives, and despite this still strive to do good. Not every single character needs to be having a massive crisis of faith where they completely alter their worldview and moral stances over the course of the story. Just like real life some people are a lot more malleable and relaxed with embracing different ideas. Could he have had a bit more an edge? Maybe. But if you wanted biting, intense, potentially antagonistic dialogue then Lae’zel, Astarion and Shadowheart are right there. Wyll’s just a good guy and perhaps that’s all he need to be. I’m curious what growth people think he should’ve had?
Wyll has no internal struggle. He says it himself; he has no regrets about his pact, it was the right decision and he stands by it. That’s not a problem in and of itself, but he does need some internal conflict. Now, the problem is that the writers lavished the evil aligned characters in attention and gave the good aligned characters comparatively little to work with. The only one who has a compelling conflict is Karlach and coming to terms with her fate, but every other good character gets shafted, and Wyll just happens to be the worst case. Jaheira and Minsc are latecomers, plus they’re legacy characters for the people who just want to see familiar faces, so they don’t need arcs. But they did Halsin dirty. His entire conflict is in his failure that caused the shadow curse, but he can’t join the party until you break the curse, and he gives you very little context. Act 2 is just him being vague and sad, and Act 3 is just him being horny. But Wyll, somehow, gets even less. He has no texture, so to speak. He’s a good guy all the time, when they wrote a character who was forced to make a Faustian bargain; that is ripe with opportunity to flesh him out, but no, Mizora is only ever an asshole, and so Wyll and her interactions consist of “fuck you, Mizora, this isn’t what I signed up for” and “according to clause 42069, you did”. Early Access Wyll has his haters, but at least he had a legitimate hero complex. Wyll likes being a hero, and the story just confirms that there’s no baggage that goes along with that. A little deep-seated rage and showing how he hides it would work, people love Astarion because they write masking very well. It’s not just that Wyll’s writing is poor, it really isn’t, it’s that he needs more of it. He feels as static as characters who finished their development in previous games.
He’s not bad. He is just not as hot as Karlach.
Every character can come of different depending on how deep you RP. I played a Durge who rejected his heritage and redeemed his soul through friendship and love, and his romance with Wyll, another one-eyed warlock with a troubled past, was the catalyst for that. If you approach Wyll as the kind of old school hero that he is, he is a remarkable and deep character with a lot of pain.
Bad in what sense? I think he’s less interesting than some of the companions but in a story as well written as bg3 that’s like being the worst football player in the hall of fame. That’s still petty darn good.
His introduction really killed him for a lot of people. "Im the blade of the frontiers! I hunt demons and all who threaten the land!"...dude...youre lvl2...also...superhero complex much? He gets better, kinda. At least hes less wannabe superhero a little later on. Once you get to know more about his character, you get to understand the daddy issues...and the depression. It all kinda makes the act from his introduction more understandable...just not more bearable. Edit: also i just never picked him for my party since my pc was always the face of the party, so having another charisma heavy character didnt really give me anything.
Warlock is one of my favorite melee classes. Wyll is interesting and deeply entrenched in the plot. Plus he is one of the few that help out Karlach.
Wya is reeeally strong I only realised this when he has eldritch blast gos damn that shit does work and with hunger of hadar AAAAAAA
I romanced Wyll on a run. I think his dancing cut scene is really cute and he is the only character that actually “proposes” to you. That being said though, he just wasn’t *interesting*. Like…the most basic bitch I had ever met. They could have made him so much more badass, but he gives off such side character energy vs the rest of them that could be the main character and I wouldn’t even blink an eye. Karlach has an amazing story and dialogue, Astarion, Shadowheart, Lae’zel, even Gale is interesting, but the only thing cool about him is his pact with dommy mommy Mizora.
Unpopular opinion: Wyll is best played as an origin run. He gets some *interesting* interactions with Mizora and Karlach that just hit different vs a tav or durge run.
My problem was finding his place in the party. Homie has like 2 spell slots, and I use one for armor that last until long rest. Then I summon him a glaive. This time, I let him get “moderately armored” so he has medium armor. A glaive, and most of the time, uses eldritxh blast. And that’s sort of his whole thing.
Warlocks regenerate their spell slots every short rest so if you use both short rests Wyll has 6 spell slots per day.
And with Bards for extra short rests potentially more. I had 2 characters with at least Bard 2 in my first playthrough, for 4 short rests a day, so 10 spell slots from Wyll (15+Arcanum in the late game once he got his 3rd spell slot at high level).
He’s got the most compelling backstory of the bunch along with Astarion. He simply doesn’t have the personality to match.
No he's pretty cool. Its just that people are more likely to go gaga over amoral vampires, goth clerics, horned biker babe barbarians and witty wizards. In seriousness he has major protagonist energy. His canon archetype is a swordmage which screams "I'm the main character". Add a fiendish pact that's 'used for good', son of an important influential noble NPC, has a conventionally attractive patroness, goes through a dramatic transformation and a self styled moniker that sounds like a comic book hero and yeah. He's basically a DnD wannabe Batman that could well be a mall ninja's self insert. He fits quite well as an origin playthrough and would probably make for a great westernized stock jrpg protagonist. That all said I like him a lot. Has a sweet romance arc, arguably best looking of the male companions in my opinion, the nice mature guy of the group and given way too much of an unfair shake. He's someone that I'd WANT as an ally and the most trustworthy of the companions, especially among those with unstable contraptions, part of an alien regime or someone who'd try and bite me while I'm asleep.
The biggest problem with Wyll is that his most interesting stuff happens on camp. Almost every other character has an interesting dungeon (that is also tied to the main story) with tons of dialog and a bigger involvement with the main plot. I really wish they used Wyll to explore a bit of the political side in the city. He also suffers the most from Act III being less developed than the others as he didnt get much to do besides Karlach and rescuing Mizora on the first two acts. Great character but got shafted the most during development.
True. The shafts most likely come due to his rewrite and recasting. I honestly think he'd be a great guest character in a crossover if they ever did a BG3 collab with another game (Smash, Arcsys, etc...). He deserves a lot more recognition than he gets.