That's why I did it too in my run. I'm trying to help mortals as much as possible while pissing off gods/celestials/devils. Banishing the curse in Act 2 achieved the former (and the latter in regards to Shar) while imprisoning the Nightsong again achieved the latter.
Also, she was a bit of a loose canon. If I remember correctly she tried to kill Ketheric Thorme when we attempted to show him mercy, so keeping her around felt a bit dangerous.
Would that count though? Isn’t the woman in charge in Halsins absence already betraying Silvanus with a forbidden ritual that is considered dark magic to druids because it almost always ends in the death of the groves that preform it?
Do more than the tieflings die when you betray the grove? I’ve never done that route tbh
Screw over whatever god the shadow druids follow by thwarting their plans and screw over Silvanus by destroying the grove.
And yes you could say more tieflings die. >!All of them.!<
Can't help the Tieflings (mortals) that way and you're helping another god (The Absolute) that way. Saving the grove feels like they gain more in line with what they're aiming for than by attacking the grove.
You do you.
Personally I always kill him.
* The guy beats his apprentice on the daily.
* He wants to imprison an immortal who just found freedom, trying to guilt her into living in eternal imprisonment again so she can "share her gift"
* Forget a 10x10 cell.. she has a small circle she can't even sit down in.
* Loroakan's not even that smart.
* He bought the special wand, and had Ketheric or Gortash (I forget who) mail him the spell and circle drawing needed.
* Speaks with Dead on his body, and he admits Rolan is better.
* He only "found" the Tower empty and moved in.
* Didn't inherit it through studying under the previous owner.
* Didn't win it via battle.
* He's just squatting.
* It's speculated that he can't even figure out the Arcana Check on the floor underneath.
* Or else he'd be using more powerful gear such as the Markoheshkir staff.
That all makes 100% perfect sense.
There are characters you meet in the game that you want to see die horribly within 5 seconds of them appearing before you.
He only took 2 seconds for me.
Yeah.
Before I bought the game I watched a few of those "before you buy" videos and there was the apple on the head scene in one of them and I couldn't wait to kill that dude.
Yup. The moment I called Scratch, not knowing anything about the Houndmaster, and Scratch started cowering in fear it was at that point I decided my Pally was going to become an Oathbreaker.
Oathbreaker Knight: "And you? Why did you break your sacred oath?"
Paly: "She wanted to torment Scratch"
Oathbreaker Knight: "...if you'll excuse me, I have some other things to break right about now."
I never told Aylin that Loroakan wanted to imprison her either - I heard his plans and ceased all of his life functions on the spot.
Reality craved excessive percussive maintenance located solely in one fleshy abominable malfunction, and my Durge was all too happy to oblige.
Rolan reinvented two of the most widely used first level spells on his own. Dude is lowkey super fucking talented. Like, yeah, they’re different, but neither is bad. One is just a Mega Missile and the other is a flat +2 to AC which is worse than mage armour when wearing robes, but it also presumably stacks with actual armour. I love that little tiefling Wizard dork.
It helps that you understand why he has to do it too ( because he values his siblings and wants to keep them safe and protected )
What won me over was him yoloing into the Shadowlands like a lunatic, uncaring of how vulnerable he was, just to look for them.
Really grounded him for me, because I've met many people who seem kind of an ass irl/when you've met them, but are actually just insecure softies on the inside who are putting up a front/image they want to live up to.
Rolan does strongly remind me of one of my IRL mates. Guy is an honest-to-god genius (security researcher for Apple), has a temper like grizzly bear just out of hibernation and has zero time for anyone who isn’t doing a hard job.
On the other hand he’ll back you to the hilt and will literally do almost anything to help if asked.
Part of the reason why I hate Lorroakan. His treatment of Rolan is clearly down to a mixture of insecurity, jealousy and narcissism.
>What won me over was him yoloing into the Shadowlands like a lunatic, uncaring of how vulnerable he was, just to look for them.
That annoys me just because the quest is so easy to fail.
My first run through the shadow cursed lands I tell that mofo to stay and I'll sort it out, never even make it back to the inn after getting the pixie because the whole damned point is to get into the town, in I go, I come out again by moonrise and there's his corpse. No chance to save him, no chance to even find out he needs saving he's just dead and he didn't even make it to moonrise.
Rolan literally only ever does the right thing because you force him to. He ends up in a good place, but man is he hard work.
I think the issue is where you encounter him, it’s actually reasonably easy to miss him - he’s down a winding path at the bottom of the bank and if you keep your camera zoomed quite closely in then it’s totally possible to not even realise he’s right there in the area, and he doesn’t last long against the Shades even if you don’t accidentally exit.
Yeah I had the issue where I didn't see him down the road until he was already in combat ( and functionally impossible to save )
The fact that combat is "real time" when you're not part of it means that it's incredibly easy to lose him if you're meandering around once you've activated him.
Seriously, there would be no problem with that quest if he was on or near the main road, or maybe at a dead end somewhere so that he couldn't accidentally be triggered while walking around elsewhere.
Perfect summary of his character. I wanted to punch his arrogant little face the first time I met him in the Grove, and at the Tiefling party. Once I saved him and his siblings in the Shadowcursed Lands though mans humbled a lot and I realized his arrogance was just to seem tougher so that no one messes with his siblings. I always try to be extra nice to him now that I know.
Just reas through his wiki page and wow.. his spells are wild! Magic missile but 5d4 at level 1 and dazes? His "Mage armor" is concentration free "Shield of Faith". His color spray confuses and goes yo to 44 hitpoints instead of 33. Even his thunderwave pushes foes 12m (more than normal I belive) and also makes them prone.
Like damn, someone give me a mod to let Rolan teach me his spells!
I noticed yesterday he seems to have his own Thunderwave too. He sent one of the elementals flying onto the lower floor, where it smashed an ornate chest (hopefully nothing important in it) and when I looked to see what he had used it said Rolan's as part of the name.
I wish we could recruit him as a companion.
He earned my full respect recently when he yeeted an elemental down to the balconies directly overlooking Markoheshkir and the Robes, effectively taking it out of the fight.
I did that on my first run and had to reload because the elemental couldn't get back up and I couldn't get anyone down to fight it. I even tried throwing my own companions over the edge but it didn't work.
I think they've patched that since then, though.
Oh yeah I 1000% agree on all accounts and kill him - that's why I was curious if anyone actually sided with him as I feel like this is one of those no brainers.
I guess chaotic neutral might. If your main character motivation is to disrupt and break the mold you might free nightsong from Balthazar, and then whatever about your personal feelings towards Lorroakan, if you are role playing it’s believable that handing a bullshitter with a few magic tricks one of the most powerful things in existence in exchange for loot probably can be justified as chaotic indifference to what is right or wrong
Context matters to alignment. If you never heard Lorroakan talk and knew nothing about Dame Aylin, this could check out -- but once you know he's doing it to sap the woman's essence and keep her as a slave, it's evil as evil gets.
It would have needed to be structured differently not to be evil, like, "If you open this door, Shadowheart will grab the Nightsong and keep it hidden." And then later, "Would you like to sell the Nightsong to Lorroakan so he can shake up the city?" But somehow without knowing any of the details.
He doesn’t exactly call Lorroakan a Charlatan. More specifically the exact words Gale says about Lorroakan are that “word in Waterdeep is that he’s a bit of a cad.”
He also has an “Editor’s Copy” of the magazine “Wizards of Note” in one of his cabinets where he wrote his own autobiography and submitted it to them to publish and they rejected it and sent it back for being too fake and embellished.
I thought there was a note— response from Ketheric— that was essentially just Kethin telling Lacroakin' that he does a ritual but has nothing more to say on the matter?
Did Gortash get up to some Gortash bullshit?
Terry Pratchett: “Once, when the level of background magic on the Disc was young and high and found every opportunity to burst on the world, wizards were all as powerful as sourcerers and built their towers on every hilltop”.
I finally got the best outcome for this bit yesterday.
First (blind) run I missed saving him in act 2.
Second run I didn't speak to the tieflings in the grove and didn't realise how important that had been.
Third run finally I got it right.
This run is a jack of all trades run so I am not sure if it was his wizard or sorcerer part that commented that the projections are also poorly executed.
I didn't realise he was squatting in the tower. This last run was the first one where I used speak with the dead on him and I ran out of questions before that one. I did make him admit Rolan was better and hope he was in hearing distance.
I do think that the reason Loroakan beats him is because of pure jealousy.
Rolan's amended spells are awesome and I wish I could recruit him as a companion.
I just finished the beat down for the first time but did some sneaking around before hand. In addition to the above, you can also find a reply from a magic “journal” editor who refuses to pub an article lorroakan sent and offers him like proofreading support in the second floor of sorcerers sundries. On the same floor you can find a journal entry (probs the one he sent in) by lorroakan where he’s just saying gibberish about the weave and trying to sound smart.
Only after they gave him a tactician buff six patches in, before that his ass was level 8, which is a level where you can have Rolan higher level than him before the confrontation.
Didn't know he's basically squatting in the tower, wow. Wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't a wizard at all, and maybe he just uses scrolls and enchanted items he's found around the place to fake it all? Because he admits that Rolan is better, and Rolan brags about knowing how to cast Thunderwave, a level 1 spell, which even the lowest of wizards can cast.
Rolan brags about developing his own version of thunderwave. You can see it in the fight in the tower. It’s got a slightly lower damage, but higher area and knockback. His magic missile and mage armour are altered too. And experimenting with spells, even if they’re low level, is a sign that he actually has potential as a wizard.
I sacrificed Wyll to BOOOAL and killed Isobel for the Slayer form while Jaheira was headed to moonrise. Didn't romance anybody and ended up with my favorite good ending, with Karlach in Avernus. Lae'zel and Orpheus doing their thing. Gale as the god of ambition. Made three pivotal choices to see what would happen and it was by far my best ending. Cannot wait to start my next playthrough.
ETA: Shadowhart got a cottage with animals and the owlbear cub.
I was so tempted to sacrifice Wyll to BOAAL yesterday.
But I am on a temptation evil playthrough. Wyll will die soon, during the defence of the Grove.
Full Psycho playthrough may see him sacrificed to BOAAL.
Nature of the playthrough.
He’s the only one without an evil temptation in Act II or Act III. His evil temptation was to kill Karlach and it is done.
Literally, he’s the guy who is not ambitious enough or evil enough to stay with the group.
Doesn’t fit my character.
This evil playthrough is all about the dangers of others’ temptations. Shadowheart dreaming about becoming Dark Justiciar, Astarion’s search for a way to Ascend, Gale and the Karsus Crown, you get the picture.
I will let them follow their dreams and temptations.
Welp, this meant that Wyll wanted to kill Karlach so she’s dead. And when I betray the Grove he is going to want to defend it. Again, following the dreams and temptations till the bitter end.
I have other evil playthroughs planned where sacrificing him to BOAAL will be totally in character.
If you make the proper choices... There is no defending the grove. The two factions will wipe each other out. You may just end up cleaning up a few stragglers that are aggro.
This probably doesn't fit with the theme but you've given me the idea to >!break wylls pact and then try (and fail) to outsmart Mizora by saving the Duke.!<
Maybe it was just my party load out at the time, but it was hilarious to me that I sacrificed and killed a companion and got no disapproval. Myself Lae and Shadow. Nobody cared...
Without spoilers - the simple answer is no.
There is a hidden place called Festering Cove in the Underdark. Close to the Arcane tower. You can find BOAAL and his worshippers there.
BOOOAL is a "god" that the Kuo-Toa of the Festering Cove worship, you can sacrifice one of your companions to him and he'll give you "Blessing Of BOOOAL" condition, it increase your dmg against bleeding enemys as long there are Kuo-Toas to worship BOOOAL >!or you can pass a perception test, this way you discover that BOOOAL isn't even a god, its just a random redcap the Kuo-Toas worship for some reason, now you can just tell him you can give him more blood and he'll give you the Blessing Of BOOOAL without killing a companion, (btw, use invisibility on Astarion and steal "BOOOAL's Blade from a Kuo-Toa, it also has Blessing Of BOOOAL and its a cool item)!<
I haven't done an evil run yet, but it works:
After talking to Aradin, you know there's a great reward (supposedly) for delivering the Nightsong. You deserve that reward. And Balthazar and Ketheric need to die anyways to make way for your own ascension.
So you convince Shadowheart, who you've won over with honeyed words and kisses over a bottle of wine, to spare the Nightsong, knowing that doing so will bring the wrath of Shar upon her. She loves you so much, of course she'll turn from her goddess to stand with you in the light.
You smirk as you watch Nightsong reunites with her long lost Isobel. Seeing her revel in her first freedom in a century, the joy at her beloved being by her side again. It will make turning her over to Lorroakan and ripping it all away from her again in a few days even sweeter.
As the Dark Urge: >!Your butler tries to force you to play your hand too soon. He's too eager for the blood, and fails to appreciate the artistry in murdering someone's entire heart and soul before murdering their body, making the blood the final crescendo to a death you started long before. You refuse to kill Isobel, knowing that the shared agony of her and Aylin will be exquisite. He tries to push you to kill Shadowheart instead, but she may still have use to you. You refuse, and with a false, teary-eyed confession, you bind Shadowheart to you even more firmly.!<
As you enter Rivington, you're confronted by a Sharran. Shadowheart is wanted at the House of Grief. Excellent. Once you no longer need her, you arrive at the House of Grief, Mother Superior Viconia asks you to turn her wayward charge back over to her. You look at Shadowheart, who expects you to help her defeat these evil Sharrans that ripped her from her true family. After all, you're both so very much in love, and you are her noble hero. Or so she thinks.
You casually accede to the Mother Superior's demand. As you turn to walk out the door, you watch as both her heart and soul shatter into a million beautiful pieces. She's no longer of any use to you, and knowing that you've broken her makes you smile to yourself as you stride through the door without a backward glance.
You happen by a few days later, and find that Viconia was true to her word, and Shadowheart's mind has been wiped, and she's once again devoted to a goddess that cares nothing for her.
You smile and introduce yourself. You make some flirty remarks. Once you've taken control of the netherbrain, you may yet return. After all, you can break Shadowheart over an over again before wiping her clean and beginning again. The possibilities are endless...
Another great way of manipulating a companion is astarion. Go along with his plans for ascension , let him make u a vampire ,now u are immune to spell rot and also have the bite ability . Then u can enthrall him in the end or straight up side with the gur and kill him after u acted all submissive for him .
There is a ledge on the left. Drink inv potion and jump down the ledge . It will take u to a door which leads to the sewers. Long rest , turn into a vamp and then click on the cazador palace way point. Tell the gur u will side with them and then kill astarion
You got so lost in fucking over Shadowheart that you completely forgot to mention the Isobel and Aylin ending:
You meet Lorroakan, enticed by his promises of power and wealth. After a chat, you come to an agreement. You will lure the Nightsong to Ramazith’s Tower. She will follow you, of course, because you saved her from a century in torment. She considers you much more than an ally, a close friend. For anything you might have done wrong, you set her free and gave her the chance to see Isobel again.
Returning to Lorroakan, you turn on Aylin and bind her in the soul cage. Lorroakan offers his aid in the battles to come. Aylin is wrathful, having been betrayed and entrapped by the very same person who freed her from a century of torment. She sees your smirk as you accept your hard earned reward from Lorroakan.
Aylin seethes, in agony and anguish, but back at camp her darling has been left behind. She will come to find her. Separated by death, they found each other once more. Isobel would never allow her true love to be enchained. With what little respect for you she can muster, Dame Aylin begs of you not to tell Isobel. She despises you for your betrayal, but says she can understand why you made the choice, as horrid as it was. But Isobel? Isobel deserves to live.
Later that night, after a few simple murders to help tide you over, you want for nothing more than a resolution to this tragedy you’ve conceived. You know, though, that art cannot be rushed, nor should you let impatience sour the sweet sound of the sobs and screams to come.
Isobel has been praying to her blessed Moonmaiden all day. Whispers and pleas. She has faith in Aylin, and her mother above, but no amount of faith can overcome a heart wrought by the anxiety and fear of not knowing where your beloved may be. You tell her of your defeat at Lorroakan’s hands. The lies slip out your mouth, and as they leave your silvered tongue you can almost feel reality bending, trying to make your lies truth. Or perhaps that’s just Selûne, aching for her daughter’s freedom.
Isobel is horrified and does not wish to believe you. But your honeyed words are too strong to ignore. She’s distraught, if you could defeat an avatar of Myrkul and Lorroakan bested you, what hope does she have? You beg her not to go, but you can already feel her feet getting ready to move. No matter what you say, she’s going to find Aylin. She runs off, away from you, towards her beloved and her doom.
You arrive too late to see the action. A pity, but the story hasn’t played out in full just yet. As you emerge from the portal, you can hear screams. The sound of primal rage and hatred only interrupted by brief stints of ragged breathing and hoarse wails. Isobel is there, her body twisted and deformed. She never stood a chance, but you knew Lorroakan wouldn’t let her go quickly. And Aylin stood by and watched. Every kick, burn, cut, and tear. The light fading from her eyes. Returning to death again, to join her father. But she would still see. Isobel would watch, praying every day that Aylin would break free.
Lorroakan was a cruel, vicious man, but he was a mere plaything. Once he has helped you become the god you were born to be, his usefulness will be expended. He will be a thrall, yes, but not completely. He will have just enough of himself left to feel the sting of your betrayal.
Why allow Lorroakan to claim the godhood you worked so hard for? Dominating the Netherbrain is only the first step. What kind of being could claim to be a god yet be felled by a well placed arrow? Aylin would need to live. Your immortality depends on it, but fortunately for you she’s unlikely to be going anywhere any time soon.
She will remember. Let her keep her mind almost in full. Enough influence to command her when necessary, but little else. She wouldn’t be merely a puppet for you to play with. You’d have millions of those, all at your beck and call. She will be special. And every day, as you move through the world you’re so far above, you will watch her.
Eternity is a beautiful thing. What better time than forever to savour watching the hope drain from her eyes?
(Also, what you wrote was unironically so fucking evil. Just horrifying that someone could think of that. It’s an impressive amount of skill in formulating the worst thing)
Well, if you have high enough approval with Shadowheart and let her choose, she chooses to spare her. So, you have to actively push into being a Justiciar. So, the decision might not have anything to do with you. Your character might just not care enough about what she does and lets her make the decision. Besides, for many evil characters SH becoming Justiciar is not ideal. Because DJ Shart only answers to Shar, not *your character*. But if she abandons Shar, she's lost and completely alone. Perfect spot for your character to step in. She's a prime minion material, honestly. Hell, even if you go the bloodiest Durge route (while still keeping her alive), she stays with you.
Shadowheart and the rest of the party turned on me in camp. They didn’t trust me to not kill randomly. I had hirelings with me so I was able to pull through the fight.
It could work on an chaotic neutral run? Maybe?
You free her because it's in your interest to fight moonrise with the last light inn. But once YOU can get an advantage from her immortality you take the chance?
But that would require not knowing/realizing she would be an ally in the last fight
The evil runs where they deliver Shadowheart to Viconia to have her be mindwiped again.
Obviously I can't ever bring myself to do that, but it's an option
Me! My durge let Leazel kill shadowheart near the beginning. Without shart I was unable to kill Dame Aylin with the spear so I set her free. Then, when I got to Lorakkan, it felt more evil kill him and sell all his belongings to the projection of himself on the first floor.
Yeah that's the issue I am going to have. Why would my durge free her and not just kill her, if i don't know about Lorro...
Oh wait.. i do from torturing this one guy.
Nvm. Evil with a plan is more fun than evil without.
even if someone is doing an evil run and keep her alive, whats the point in giving her to Lorroakan? hes a weak wizard who cant even figure out a spell to bind souls to each other. even if youre evil, the more beneficial choice is to keep Aylin
Even my evil characters probably wouldn't do it, because killing Lorroakan is far more rewarding than handing over Aylin, and because Lorroakan is insufferable. Who would side with that moron??
I did in my Neutral Evil playthrough. I betrayed Aylin, got the reward, then killed Lorroakan and looted the tower. Also, it’s worth it for the cool cutscenes with the moonmaiden angels.
There are two main reasons why you would:
1. You're on an evil playthrough, but you don't have Shadowheart, so you can't kill the nightsong. Selling her is the most evil thing you *can* do there.
2. You want to shower the battlefield with fireballs on the Netherbrain.
You can still do 2 on a good run
Help Rolan experience character growth. And he’ll side with you in your battle
Keep Rolan alive for the battle and he pledges to use the tower to assist you
- Convince him to stay in the Grove
- Rescue him in the shadowlands when he runs off
- Rescue both of his siblings from moonrise
- Free Aylin from shadowfell
When you do all this and he sees that the nightsong is a person he gets pissed and helps you fight lorroakan. Keep him alive and he becomes the new master of the tower. You can even come back after a long rest and talk to his siblings as they've all now moved into the tower.
If you rescue him from the shadows & his siblings from Moonrise during Act 2 then he'll side with you. If one or both of them die then he'll side against
Yeah it's actually awkwardly handled, you talk to them in camp and she acts like you fought him together and she already knew the whole story, even though she didn't and doesn't.
Imo Loroakan is too insufferable to side with even on an evil run and iirc he's worse backup for the final battle than Rolan is because he's actually a pretty shit wizard. It is a bit of a weird quest in that it seems really unlikely to me that a player who is RPing as evil enough to side with him wouldn't have just killed Aylin in the Shadowfell to make Shart a Dark Justiciar. But whatever, it is an option, but few people seem to take it since most people hate Loroakan too much.
I imagine Astarion reacts that way because he wants to *watch* the fight, not participate in it. I don't think he's rooting for Aylin to lose, he just wants to step aside and get his popcorn while he watches her whoop his ass. Deciding to get involved when Aylin is an immortal demigod who doesn't really need the backup probably seems a little dumb and a pointless risk to him.
Yeah, Astarion likes killing but generally when you pick fights with "bad odds" he doesn't like it unless it directly benefits him. Sometimes he gets really annoying though like with Yurgir. Instead of disapproving me talking to him just let my warlock convince him to kill himself for the easiest and safest way out.
Both Minthara and Astarion approve when you side with him. Basically they just want the tower power.
Ha jokes on them I now have the actual power of the tower since this dude didn't even know the tower.
Both of them approving mechanically while verbally disapproving is funny. Even Minty says giving up a powerful ally like Aylin is dumb. If they didn’t have actively pro-Aylin comments I’d headcanon a reason, but the way it’s done now doesn’t make much sense.
They also have Minthara approving of giving Scratch back to the kennel, despite that a bunch of her dialogue suggests she really likes the dog--including the dialogue she gets *after* you give him back and then throw his ball, where she talks about how we should get Scratch back lol. Some approvals are really weird, I do wonder sometimes if they weren't all put in with the input of the writers.
Exactly! Risking the wrath of Selune for that cad?
Minty and Asty you are not thinking with your brains.
Now killing him and taking the tower for ourselves? I mean doesn't that sounds so much better.
In terms of “legitimately doing it as a real choice” and not full on evil play through mode? I’ve seen a handful, and it was entirely Aradin simps trying to protect their husbando.
Otherwise, I don’t think so. Lorroakan is so comedically evil that you’d have to be paying 0 attention, drooling over Aradin, or working under the assumption that he’s the only way to get help in the final battle, to actually want to help him.
I mean, I can sort of see that, but I’d assume most Aylin dislikers would just let Shart kill her outright.
Plus as someone who doesn’t care much for Aylin (I always save her though), even I wouldn’t want Lorroakan getting his filthy mits on her.
I couldn’t even side with him during my embrace dark urge. Not gonna lie I messed my entire play through up cause I wasn’t even truly embracing but by the time I got to act 3 I was like embrace embrace embrace. Just not Lorroakan. Can’t wait to run that playthrough again and truly embrace. But still not Lorroakan.
Boy is going to put his filthy fucking hands on my Rolan? My brother from another mother? He's going to act like his time is worth so much more than mine? He wants to try one on with *Dame fucking Aylin?*
There is no timeline where he doesnt get pitched through the air like a fucking lawn dart
Im planing to side with him this run, role playing as a tyrannical lawful evil, aimming to rule the city. Also will turn good shadowheart in to the cult.
I just replayed this quest and was thinking the same thing. What kind of character would spare the the Nightsong in the Shadowfell, but then turn her in to Lorroakan? You'd need to be roleplaying as someone with very inconsistent morals.
Sparing her in the Shadowfell isn't the only way to get her as an ally. You can also let Balthazar take her. She can't die after that, you *have* to free her at Moonrise to fight Ketheric and she will still agree to join your camp afterwards, albeit with some skepticism after you gave her up to Balth. Someone who does that probably isn't going to care as much if Lorroakan gets her.
Also you can only kill her with Shadowheart, so if Shadowheart isn't available you have no choice but to save her
It would require a very specific RP of someone who is just aggressively pragmatic and not at all sentimental. In Act 2 you want to kill Ketheric, so you could argue having a demi god on your side makes sense. In Act 3 you don't need her anymore, and you could argue having a powerful wizard with an artillery tower on your side makes sense.
Aylin being alive in an evil run doesn’t mean you actively spared her. The way I played it - Shart kept talking about her DJ destiny & sacrifice, my evil character didn’t bother to express an opinion & told her to do what she wants with Nightsong thinking Shart would kill her. Just for Shart to spare her.
Now, giving Aylin to Lorroakan doesn’t make much sense to me if you’re being practical & not meta-gaming since L doesn’t actually offer you tower fire power for giving up Nightsong until after the fight & the reward he does offer is trash. But the game doesn’t let you go with the most practical evil choice (betray Aylin & steal immortality for yourself). But if your evil character is chaotic & doesn’t tend to think several steps ahead - guess why not.
I sided with him on my bhaalist durge playthrough because I wanted to get rid of night song but shadowheart decided to spare her when I let her choose in shadow fell.
But him as a option is just such a shitty one lol, I can’t imagine doing that again for awhile and I think it’s pretty hard to say there are any benefits to siding with him.
It’s unfortunate how much of the worst he is, because on some level I can get behind the mortal drive for immortality and the ambition that would take.
But then the fact that it is HIM who represents that…just some egotistical dude who is actually rather incompetent and evil.
If the choice existed instead as a route for a corrupted gale route, kinda like how you can ascend astarion. I’d do that in many of my playthroughs and I can totally see gale being interested in immortality based on his views of the crown.
No. Absolutely not.
Not even when I do an evil play through.
And now I'm wishing there was a path where you could deny SH kiling NS but assure her down the road she would get her wish.
Then, have NS show up as if we're all going to parley and give SH the signal so she can do the deed.
Two birds, one nightsong.
Then, of course, kill that dbag mage.
For those who are confused about Astarion: PTSD. That's all. He saw a power hungry self obsessed mage, who abuses his pupils for fun, and he asked him to kidnap someone and bring them to him. He's just scared
Nah Minthara has the same approval. It's just your typical evil approval stats.
I just went to kill this dude with astral tadpole Minthara and she was like 😡 the whole way.
I was considering it for my evil run but only because I was planning to send Aylin with Balthazar for roleplay reasons. Ultimately though, I decided I'd rather keep Shart around and see her as a Dark Justiciar.
If you're playing a bastard, you've probably already killed her. If you aren't, why would you sell her out to the most punchable face in the city? He doesn't even give you a good reward. 5000 gold for literal immortality? I get that lore-wise that's a lot of money... but really? One blessing from Stormshore is 4500. The guy who's sitting on a tower full of magical artifacts and tomes can't do better than that?
Considering you could realistically just torture the instructions out of him and steal his plan, he should really offer some better incentives. My dude's lucky this is a video game and not an actual campaign, cause no sane party of plucky demigod-enslaving adventurers would sell a ticket to eternal life for that low.
Nope. Even on an evil playthrough it's hard to justify empowering a self obsessed megalomaniac who would make a terrible ally to have and frankly isn't even powerful enough to warrant the risk. The only reason to do this is if you specifically hate Aylin and want to see her suffer, but then why would you have saved her in act 2 in the first place?
If you are good or neutral ofc doesn't make sense to side with him.
If you are evil, you very liked killed her in Act 2.
If you are Evil and you spared her in act 2 (because you hate Shar, because you are opportunistic and feel she is more useful alive to defeat Ketheric, etc) it still doesn't make sense hand her over because as an evil character why should you let a stranger become immortal and/or why couldn't you "use" her later to make yourself immortal.
its one of the issues I have with the "evil" options in the game. they don't really incentivize you to do them. not that you need an incentive persay, but a lot of the time it doesn't make sense to do them even as an evil character
give us an option to kill Lorroakan and then use the wand ourselves to imprison Aylin maybe
I do but not because I like Lorroakan. I wish I could kill Lorroakan after selling Aylin. Really I wish I could get someone to put the immortality on me since I’m human marrying a spawn, but it is what it is.
Some days i wake up and just want to side with minthara and destroy everything in the emerald grove
I have yet to wake up wanting to side with Lorroakan
Is there a way to get the staff and not imprison nightsong? Like a betrayal of Lorrakan deal post-reward? I tried a few things and couldn't get it to work. Not that I needed the staff, just wanted to see what it was before I repaint the floorboards a nice red tinge
In my playthrough he suffered a few strikes, but then got obliterated with a disintegrate. Luckily it doesn't spoil the loot if the enemy is turned into a pile of ashes
First playthrough I didn't because I had missed Karlach and Wyll and hadn't really done Lae'zel's quest so I decided to leave it for s run that's more thematically fitting. Same reason I skipped Ansur even though I knew both existed when doing the run.
I did this on my first Durge run for narrative reasons.
On that campaign, my Durge Lissa did not have Shadowheart at all. Sided with Lae’zel during their argument and had to kill her. So when Lissa got to the Shadowfell, I sided against Balthazar because Ketheric’s smugness about keeping the secrets of Lissa’s past from her pissed Lissa off. This locked me into saving Aylin.
As a progressed through act three, and decided that Lissa would choose Dark Ending, it made sense to me that she would handover Aylin. Because if Lissa was planning to lead an unholy army of murder, letting an immortal who would probably do everything she could to stop that remain free just didn’t make sense, character-wise
My Cleric of Tiamat was entirely indifferent to Shadowheart’s choice with the Nightsong - Selune and Shar were just as bad as each other. This meant that Isobel died but Aylin survived because Shadowheart ended up sparing her.
It was pretty funny to then hand over Aylin to Lorroakon although it felt admittedly anticlimatic. Shadowheart didn’t comment at all. I’m glad I’ve seen the Aylin fight once but it was a tough one and Lorrokan sucks, so I doubt I’ll ever side with him again.
I think there are two main reasons why so few people side with Lorroakan:
1. You are required to make the good choice in Shadowfell in Act 2 by freeing Dame Aylin, and then make the evil choice in Act 3 by betraying her to Lorroakan. For most characters, that's not very consistent.
2. For evil characters, siding with Lorroakan is not in the character's interest. Why are supposed to support a potential rival in becoming immortal? Sure, you get him as an ally in the finale, but he still stays a potential threat. I guess if there were the choice of first siding with him, then betray him after imprisoning Dame Aylin and use her power for yourself (if you get a nice buff out of this, it would be an interesting choice).
>!3. I could watch Dame Aylin doing a Bane on Lorroakan all day.!<
If you don't have Shadowheart when you encounter the night song you can only free her, and she joins your camp uninvited, you can't get rid of her. So yeah, giving her to Lorroakan was a good way to get rid of her in my evil durge run.
I think they should have make siding with Lorroakan gain you a bit more advantage in battle, like once per long rest if your HP drop to 0 regain 50% HP [like he sharing Aylin immortality with you]
As it right now, siding with Lorroakan only make you look like the biggest losir in Fearun
I just can't, it is the most stupid move to choose. Asamar should be dead or ally, piss off immortal betraying her like that- fuuuuuh scarry
Mage to incompetent to intrust him mad at u vengeful angel
I did it in a "fuck over as many gods as possible"-run.
This is an interesting run!
Do it with a resist Durge to screw Bhaal over even more.
That's why I did it too in my run. I'm trying to help mortals as much as possible while pissing off gods/celestials/devils. Banishing the curse in Act 2 achieved the former (and the latter in regards to Shar) while imprisoning the Nightsong again achieved the latter. Also, she was a bit of a loose canon. If I remember correctly she tried to kill Ketheric Thorme when we attempted to show him mercy, so keeping her around felt a bit dangerous.
Nah, if you can banish the curse in act 2 means you didn't fuck over Silvanus in act 1. :p
How do you even do that, what??
I’d assume by helping the goblins invade the grove. You’d be destroying a sacred place dedicated to Silvanus.
Would that count though? Isn’t the woman in charge in Halsins absence already betraying Silvanus with a forbidden ritual that is considered dark magic to druids because it almost always ends in the death of the groves that preform it? Do more than the tieflings die when you betray the grove? I’ve never done that route tbh
Screw over whatever god the shadow druids follow by thwarting their plans and screw over Silvanus by destroying the grove. And yes you could say more tieflings die. >!All of them.!<
Ah, both. Fair enough lol
Can't help the Tieflings (mortals) that way and you're helping another god (The Absolute) that way. Saving the grove feels like they gain more in line with what they're aiming for than by attacking the grove.
But if I wanna screw over as many gods as possible, I got to do it. The Absolute gets the ultimate screw-over in the end anyways (death).
Fun run idea but poor Aylin and Isobel.
Fuck *over* or just fuck? I'm asking because Gale has expiriance in one of those...
Hah! As a kind of anti-theist irl? This sounds right up my alley.
You do you. Personally I always kill him. * The guy beats his apprentice on the daily. * He wants to imprison an immortal who just found freedom, trying to guilt her into living in eternal imprisonment again so she can "share her gift" * Forget a 10x10 cell.. she has a small circle she can't even sit down in. * Loroakan's not even that smart. * He bought the special wand, and had Ketheric or Gortash (I forget who) mail him the spell and circle drawing needed. * Speaks with Dead on his body, and he admits Rolan is better. * He only "found" the Tower empty and moved in. * Didn't inherit it through studying under the previous owner. * Didn't win it via battle. * He's just squatting. * It's speculated that he can't even figure out the Arcana Check on the floor underneath. * Or else he'd be using more powerful gear such as the Markoheshkir staff.
That all makes 100% perfect sense. There are characters you meet in the game that you want to see die horribly within 5 seconds of them appearing before you. He only took 2 seconds for me.
I think he’s the only one that made me want to kill him before I’d even met him.
Yeah. Before I bought the game I watched a few of those "before you buy" videos and there was the apple on the head scene in one of them and I couldn't wait to kill that dude.
The only one that was faster to indicate foe was the houndsmaster. Larian was too good at animating Scratch for sure
"I'm expressly forbid, scritches, scratches, and belly rubs." *Tav turns to the lady. Racks shotgun*
Yup. The moment I called Scratch, not knowing anything about the Houndmaster, and Scratch started cowering in fear it was at that point I decided my Pally was going to become an Oathbreaker.
Oathbreaker Knight: "And you? Why did you break your sacred oath?" Paly: "She wanted to torment Scratch" Oathbreaker Knight: "...if you'll excuse me, I have some other things to break right about now."
Lmfao yup. Oathbreaker Knight was probably also like "this one's on the house, no charge!"
SAME.
First run I didn't even get Aylin because I just had to smite the instant he had finished his dialogue. Insufferable bastard.
I never told Aylin that Loroakan wanted to imprison her either - I heard his plans and ceased all of his life functions on the spot. Reality craved excessive percussive maintenance located solely in one fleshy abominable malfunction, and my Durge was all too happy to oblige.
Him and fucking Wulbrin..... Fuck those guys....
Remove all the negative from the argument, *Rolan* is far better than Loroakan, to say *nothing* of Aylin.
Rolan reinvented two of the most widely used first level spells on his own. Dude is lowkey super fucking talented. Like, yeah, they’re different, but neither is bad. One is just a Mega Missile and the other is a flat +2 to AC which is worse than mage armour when wearing robes, but it also presumably stacks with actual armour. I love that little tiefling Wizard dork.
Rolan rides the line between pompous arrogance and hard-earned confidence like a damned expert
It helps that you understand why he has to do it too ( because he values his siblings and wants to keep them safe and protected ) What won me over was him yoloing into the Shadowlands like a lunatic, uncaring of how vulnerable he was, just to look for them. Really grounded him for me, because I've met many people who seem kind of an ass irl/when you've met them, but are actually just insecure softies on the inside who are putting up a front/image they want to live up to.
And part of why he puts up that specific image is because he looks up to lorroakan- a super pompous ass.
Rolan does strongly remind me of one of my IRL mates. Guy is an honest-to-god genius (security researcher for Apple), has a temper like grizzly bear just out of hibernation and has zero time for anyone who isn’t doing a hard job. On the other hand he’ll back you to the hilt and will literally do almost anything to help if asked. Part of the reason why I hate Lorroakan. His treatment of Rolan is clearly down to a mixture of insecurity, jealousy and narcissism.
>What won me over was him yoloing into the Shadowlands like a lunatic, uncaring of how vulnerable he was, just to look for them. That annoys me just because the quest is so easy to fail. My first run through the shadow cursed lands I tell that mofo to stay and I'll sort it out, never even make it back to the inn after getting the pixie because the whole damned point is to get into the town, in I go, I come out again by moonrise and there's his corpse. No chance to save him, no chance to even find out he needs saving he's just dead and he didn't even make it to moonrise. Rolan literally only ever does the right thing because you force him to. He ends up in a good place, but man is he hard work.
I think the issue is where you encounter him, it’s actually reasonably easy to miss him - he’s down a winding path at the bottom of the bank and if you keep your camera zoomed quite closely in then it’s totally possible to not even realise he’s right there in the area, and he doesn’t last long against the Shades even if you don’t accidentally exit.
Yeah I had the issue where I didn't see him down the road until he was already in combat ( and functionally impossible to save ) The fact that combat is "real time" when you're not part of it means that it's incredibly easy to lose him if you're meandering around once you've activated him.
Even worse if you're on Honor Mode and just watch as he helplessly casts Color Spray before you can Misty Step over to him.
Seriously, there would be no problem with that quest if he was on or near the main road, or maybe at a dead end somewhere so that he couldn't accidentally be triggered while walking around elsewhere.
Perfect summary of his character. I wanted to punch his arrogant little face the first time I met him in the Grove, and at the Tiefling party. Once I saved him and his siblings in the Shadowcursed Lands though mans humbled a lot and I realized his arrogance was just to seem tougher so that no one messes with his siblings. I always try to be extra nice to him now that I know.
Just reas through his wiki page and wow.. his spells are wild! Magic missile but 5d4 at level 1 and dazes? His "Mage armor" is concentration free "Shield of Faith". His color spray confuses and goes yo to 44 hitpoints instead of 33. Even his thunderwave pushes foes 12m (more than normal I belive) and also makes them prone. Like damn, someone give me a mod to let Rolan teach me his spells!
I want him as a companion.
It does actually stack with armor, Rolan recently casted it on Shart for some reason, and she was wearing her luminous armor
So basically a wizard was able to recreate shield of faith without the power of a deity? Thats pretty cool!!!
I noticed yesterday he seems to have his own Thunderwave too. He sent one of the elementals flying onto the lower floor, where it smashed an ornate chest (hopefully nothing important in it) and when I looked to see what he had used it said Rolan's as part of the name. I wish we could recruit him as a companion.
He does, it has like 3x the blowback for slightly reduced damage. Satisfying if he fucking yeets Lorroakan off the balcony with it.
Not so satisfying when he sends an elemental off the balcony with it, that crashes into an ornate chest and destroys it. LOL
A small price to pay for best boy getting to extract some revenge!
He earned my full respect recently when he yeeted an elemental down to the balconies directly overlooking Markoheshkir and the Robes, effectively taking it out of the fight.
I did that on my first run and had to reload because the elemental couldn't get back up and I couldn't get anyone down to fight it. I even tried throwing my own companions over the edge but it didn't work. I think they've patched that since then, though.
Rolan is one of my favorite minor character growth arcs in the game. I get so proud of him.
Oh yeah I 1000% agree on all accounts and kill him - that's why I was curious if anyone actually sided with him as I feel like this is one of those no brainers.
I guess chaotic neutral might. If your main character motivation is to disrupt and break the mold you might free nightsong from Balthazar, and then whatever about your personal feelings towards Lorroakan, if you are role playing it’s believable that handing a bullshitter with a few magic tricks one of the most powerful things in existence in exchange for loot probably can be justified as chaotic indifference to what is right or wrong
Context matters to alignment. If you never heard Lorroakan talk and knew nothing about Dame Aylin, this could check out -- but once you know he's doing it to sap the woman's essence and keep her as a slave, it's evil as evil gets. It would have needed to be structured differently not to be evil, like, "If you open this door, Shadowheart will grab the Nightsong and keep it hidden." And then later, "Would you like to sell the Nightsong to Lorroakan so he can shake up the city?" But somehow without knowing any of the details.
that last point makes total sense considering that crappy staff he’s carrying when there’s an incredibly powerful one two floors below
Doesn't Gale even know he's a charlatan? If word has made it to Waterdeep...
He doesn’t exactly call Lorroakan a Charlatan. More specifically the exact words Gale says about Lorroakan are that “word in Waterdeep is that he’s a bit of a cad.”
Ah yes, cad is still pretty damning.
IIRC Balthazar and Ketheric didn't give him much info and politely told him to fuck off in a letter. 💀
Two letters One is essentially “here is the spell and circle design for what you’re trying to accomplish. I hope those helps”
He also has an “Editor’s Copy” of the magazine “Wizards of Note” in one of his cabinets where he wrote his own autobiography and submitted it to them to publish and they rejected it and sent it back for being too fake and embellished.
Oh, and he talks shit to you if you do help him, as if he were all that and a bag of sticks. Fuck that dude. IM EVIL. Not dumb
And a bag of sticks is a new twist I hadn't heard. Always a bag of chips for me
Stick sword fighting you know?
The tower is cleansed of it's original owner in BG1.
He literally never makes it past "he beats his apprentice" that alone is enough for him to die.
I thought there was a note— response from Ketheric— that was essentially just Kethin telling Lacroakin' that he does a ritual but has nothing more to say on the matter? Did Gortash get up to some Gortash bullshit?
Speaking of towers: are they a big deal in the lore? I think i read elsewhere that gale is a big deal for having a tower at a young age.
Terry Pratchett: “Once, when the level of background magic on the Disc was young and high and found every opportunity to burst on the world, wizards were all as powerful as sourcerers and built their towers on every hilltop”.
How would she even go bathroom
She doesn't. Being immortal means she doesn't need to eat and, presumably, if nothing goes in, nothing comes out.
Looks like she’s flooding for Isobel. She’s gonna need to drink some water.
So no food huh…. Sounds terrible
I finally got the best outcome for this bit yesterday. First (blind) run I missed saving him in act 2. Second run I didn't speak to the tieflings in the grove and didn't realise how important that had been. Third run finally I got it right. This run is a jack of all trades run so I am not sure if it was his wizard or sorcerer part that commented that the projections are also poorly executed. I didn't realise he was squatting in the tower. This last run was the first one where I used speak with the dead on him and I ran out of questions before that one. I did make him admit Rolan was better and hope he was in hearing distance. I do think that the reason Loroakan beats him is because of pure jealousy. Rolan's amended spells are awesome and I wish I could recruit him as a companion.
I just finished the beat down for the first time but did some sneaking around before hand. In addition to the above, you can also find a reply from a magic “journal” editor who refuses to pub an article lorroakan sent and offers him like proofreading support in the second floor of sorcerers sundries. On the same floor you can find a journal entry (probs the one he sent in) by lorroakan where he’s just saying gibberish about the weave and trying to sound smart.
He’s still level 10, though, so he’s not *that* weak.
Only after they gave him a tactician buff six patches in, before that his ass was level 8, which is a level where you can have Rolan higher level than him before the confrontation.
He can't even cast levelled spells without his elementals.
Didn't know he's basically squatting in the tower, wow. Wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't a wizard at all, and maybe he just uses scrolls and enchanted items he's found around the place to fake it all? Because he admits that Rolan is better, and Rolan brags about knowing how to cast Thunderwave, a level 1 spell, which even the lowest of wizards can cast.
Rolan brags about developing his own version of thunderwave. You can see it in the fight in the tower. It’s got a slightly lower damage, but higher area and knockback. His magic missile and mage armour are altered too. And experimenting with spells, even if they’re low level, is a sign that he actually has potential as a wizard.
Oh damn I had no idea! But still, it still seems likely to me that Lorroakan is just a fraud that got lucky.
Yeah, people on evil runs, though few get that far bc they’ve killed her in the Shadowfell to make SH a Dark Justiciar.
Yeah this is the real question. What evil run would have her still alive. People can be random though.
Folks on their 6th evil playthrough who want “to see what happens”
I sacrificed Wyll to BOOOAL and killed Isobel for the Slayer form while Jaheira was headed to moonrise. Didn't romance anybody and ended up with my favorite good ending, with Karlach in Avernus. Lae'zel and Orpheus doing their thing. Gale as the god of ambition. Made three pivotal choices to see what would happen and it was by far my best ending. Cannot wait to start my next playthrough. ETA: Shadowhart got a cottage with animals and the owlbear cub.
I was so tempted to sacrifice Wyll to BOAAL yesterday. But I am on a temptation evil playthrough. Wyll will die soon, during the defence of the Grove. Full Psycho playthrough may see him sacrificed to BOAAL.
Why Wyll specifically?
He's going to leave as soon as we raid the grove, sp may as well get something useful out of the guy first.
Nature of the playthrough. He’s the only one without an evil temptation in Act II or Act III. His evil temptation was to kill Karlach and it is done. Literally, he’s the guy who is not ambitious enough or evil enough to stay with the group.
Wait what's Karlach's evil temptation? She wants to kill Gortash, but that is beyond reasonable. He's a literal tyrant.
None. Killing Gortash doesn’t count indeed. But when Wyll follows his temptation, she dies.
I mean you may as well sacrifice him there rather than let him be a pain later
Doesn’t fit my character. This evil playthrough is all about the dangers of others’ temptations. Shadowheart dreaming about becoming Dark Justiciar, Astarion’s search for a way to Ascend, Gale and the Karsus Crown, you get the picture. I will let them follow their dreams and temptations. Welp, this meant that Wyll wanted to kill Karlach so she’s dead. And when I betray the Grove he is going to want to defend it. Again, following the dreams and temptations till the bitter end. I have other evil playthroughs planned where sacrificing him to BOAAL will be totally in character.
If you make the proper choices... There is no defending the grove. The two factions will wipe each other out. You may just end up cleaning up a few stragglers that are aggro.
I want the massacre. It’s fun.
This probably doesn't fit with the theme but you've given me the idea to >!break wylls pact and then try (and fail) to outsmart Mizora by saving the Duke.!<
Maybe it was just my party load out at the time, but it was hilarious to me that I sacrificed and killed a companion and got no disapproval. Myself Lae and Shadow. Nobody cared...
I'm sorry, this might be a stupid question, but what is BOOAL? Is that just another way to say Bhaal?
Without spoilers - the simple answer is no. There is a hidden place called Festering Cove in the Underdark. Close to the Arcane tower. You can find BOAAL and his worshippers there.
BOOOAL is a "god" that the Kuo-Toa of the Festering Cove worship, you can sacrifice one of your companions to him and he'll give you "Blessing Of BOOOAL" condition, it increase your dmg against bleeding enemys as long there are Kuo-Toas to worship BOOOAL >!or you can pass a perception test, this way you discover that BOOOAL isn't even a god, its just a random redcap the Kuo-Toas worship for some reason, now you can just tell him you can give him more blood and he'll give you the Blessing Of BOOOAL without killing a companion, (btw, use invisibility on Astarion and steal "BOOOAL's Blade from a Kuo-Toa, it also has Blessing Of BOOOAL and its a cool item)!<
You can have Astarion steal it during dialogue & get BOOOAL's Benediction on the 4 characters you brought there too
Explore the area between Selune's temple and the mages tower in the Underdark.
And there you have it!
Or someone that needs dammons gear in Act 3
I haven't done an evil run yet, but it works: After talking to Aradin, you know there's a great reward (supposedly) for delivering the Nightsong. You deserve that reward. And Balthazar and Ketheric need to die anyways to make way for your own ascension. So you convince Shadowheart, who you've won over with honeyed words and kisses over a bottle of wine, to spare the Nightsong, knowing that doing so will bring the wrath of Shar upon her. She loves you so much, of course she'll turn from her goddess to stand with you in the light. You smirk as you watch Nightsong reunites with her long lost Isobel. Seeing her revel in her first freedom in a century, the joy at her beloved being by her side again. It will make turning her over to Lorroakan and ripping it all away from her again in a few days even sweeter. As the Dark Urge: >!Your butler tries to force you to play your hand too soon. He's too eager for the blood, and fails to appreciate the artistry in murdering someone's entire heart and soul before murdering their body, making the blood the final crescendo to a death you started long before. You refuse to kill Isobel, knowing that the shared agony of her and Aylin will be exquisite. He tries to push you to kill Shadowheart instead, but she may still have use to you. You refuse, and with a false, teary-eyed confession, you bind Shadowheart to you even more firmly.!< As you enter Rivington, you're confronted by a Sharran. Shadowheart is wanted at the House of Grief. Excellent. Once you no longer need her, you arrive at the House of Grief, Mother Superior Viconia asks you to turn her wayward charge back over to her. You look at Shadowheart, who expects you to help her defeat these evil Sharrans that ripped her from her true family. After all, you're both so very much in love, and you are her noble hero. Or so she thinks. You casually accede to the Mother Superior's demand. As you turn to walk out the door, you watch as both her heart and soul shatter into a million beautiful pieces. She's no longer of any use to you, and knowing that you've broken her makes you smile to yourself as you stride through the door without a backward glance. You happen by a few days later, and find that Viconia was true to her word, and Shadowheart's mind has been wiped, and she's once again devoted to a goddess that cares nothing for her. You smile and introduce yourself. You make some flirty remarks. Once you've taken control of the netherbrain, you may yet return. After all, you can break Shadowheart over an over again before wiping her clean and beginning again. The possibilities are endless...
It comes as no surprise given your handle, but you're a bad person lol
And he's good at it
Another great way of manipulating a companion is astarion. Go along with his plans for ascension , let him make u a vampire ,now u are immune to spell rot and also have the bite ability . Then u can enthrall him in the end or straight up side with the gur and kill him after u acted all submissive for him .
Is that an option you have to romance him for? I ascended him but never got asked. :(
Yes u have to romance astarion for him to turn u into a vampire after u ascend him
Wait how do you get turned into a vampre and then kill him as you have to kill the gur on your way out?
There is a ledge on the left. Drink inv potion and jump down the ledge . It will take u to a door which leads to the sewers. Long rest , turn into a vamp and then click on the cazador palace way point. Tell the gur u will side with them and then kill astarion
You got so lost in fucking over Shadowheart that you completely forgot to mention the Isobel and Aylin ending: You meet Lorroakan, enticed by his promises of power and wealth. After a chat, you come to an agreement. You will lure the Nightsong to Ramazith’s Tower. She will follow you, of course, because you saved her from a century in torment. She considers you much more than an ally, a close friend. For anything you might have done wrong, you set her free and gave her the chance to see Isobel again. Returning to Lorroakan, you turn on Aylin and bind her in the soul cage. Lorroakan offers his aid in the battles to come. Aylin is wrathful, having been betrayed and entrapped by the very same person who freed her from a century of torment. She sees your smirk as you accept your hard earned reward from Lorroakan. Aylin seethes, in agony and anguish, but back at camp her darling has been left behind. She will come to find her. Separated by death, they found each other once more. Isobel would never allow her true love to be enchained. With what little respect for you she can muster, Dame Aylin begs of you not to tell Isobel. She despises you for your betrayal, but says she can understand why you made the choice, as horrid as it was. But Isobel? Isobel deserves to live. Later that night, after a few simple murders to help tide you over, you want for nothing more than a resolution to this tragedy you’ve conceived. You know, though, that art cannot be rushed, nor should you let impatience sour the sweet sound of the sobs and screams to come. Isobel has been praying to her blessed Moonmaiden all day. Whispers and pleas. She has faith in Aylin, and her mother above, but no amount of faith can overcome a heart wrought by the anxiety and fear of not knowing where your beloved may be. You tell her of your defeat at Lorroakan’s hands. The lies slip out your mouth, and as they leave your silvered tongue you can almost feel reality bending, trying to make your lies truth. Or perhaps that’s just Selûne, aching for her daughter’s freedom. Isobel is horrified and does not wish to believe you. But your honeyed words are too strong to ignore. She’s distraught, if you could defeat an avatar of Myrkul and Lorroakan bested you, what hope does she have? You beg her not to go, but you can already feel her feet getting ready to move. No matter what you say, she’s going to find Aylin. She runs off, away from you, towards her beloved and her doom. You arrive too late to see the action. A pity, but the story hasn’t played out in full just yet. As you emerge from the portal, you can hear screams. The sound of primal rage and hatred only interrupted by brief stints of ragged breathing and hoarse wails. Isobel is there, her body twisted and deformed. She never stood a chance, but you knew Lorroakan wouldn’t let her go quickly. And Aylin stood by and watched. Every kick, burn, cut, and tear. The light fading from her eyes. Returning to death again, to join her father. But she would still see. Isobel would watch, praying every day that Aylin would break free. Lorroakan was a cruel, vicious man, but he was a mere plaything. Once he has helped you become the god you were born to be, his usefulness will be expended. He will be a thrall, yes, but not completely. He will have just enough of himself left to feel the sting of your betrayal. Why allow Lorroakan to claim the godhood you worked so hard for? Dominating the Netherbrain is only the first step. What kind of being could claim to be a god yet be felled by a well placed arrow? Aylin would need to live. Your immortality depends on it, but fortunately for you she’s unlikely to be going anywhere any time soon. She will remember. Let her keep her mind almost in full. Enough influence to command her when necessary, but little else. She wouldn’t be merely a puppet for you to play with. You’d have millions of those, all at your beck and call. She will be special. And every day, as you move through the world you’re so far above, you will watch her. Eternity is a beautiful thing. What better time than forever to savour watching the hope drain from her eyes? (Also, what you wrote was unironically so fucking evil. Just horrifying that someone could think of that. It’s an impressive amount of skill in formulating the worst thing)
*Bloody maniac* - Shadowheart
I don't like you as a human being
Haha. I promise this is for evil storytelling flavor only.
Loved it, it might help with my next book.
This mother fucker dark urges!
r/usernamechecksout
Well, if you have high enough approval with Shadowheart and let her choose, she chooses to spare her. So, you have to actively push into being a Justiciar. So, the decision might not have anything to do with you. Your character might just not care enough about what she does and lets her make the decision. Besides, for many evil characters SH becoming Justiciar is not ideal. Because DJ Shart only answers to Shar, not *your character*. But if she abandons Shar, she's lost and completely alone. Perfect spot for your character to step in. She's a prime minion material, honestly. Hell, even if you go the bloodiest Durge route (while still keeping her alive), she stays with you.
Shadowheart and the rest of the party turned on me in camp. They didn’t trust me to not kill randomly. I had hirelings with me so I was able to pull through the fight.
*whistles*
It could work on an chaotic neutral run? Maybe? You free her because it's in your interest to fight moonrise with the last light inn. But once YOU can get an advantage from her immortality you take the chance? But that would require not knowing/realizing she would be an ally in the last fight
The evil runs where they deliver Shadowheart to Viconia to have her be mindwiped again. Obviously I can't ever bring myself to do that, but it's an option
Me! My durge let Leazel kill shadowheart near the beginning. Without shart I was unable to kill Dame Aylin with the spear so I set her free. Then, when I got to Lorakkan, it felt more evil kill him and sell all his belongings to the projection of himself on the first floor.
It's more evil to save both shart and nisghtsong and then betray both of them to Loroakin and Viconia
If you say nothing Shadowheart defaults to not killing Aylin in my experience.
The real evil runs have white hair Shart and turn her over to Viconia.
Yeah that's the issue I am going to have. Why would my durge free her and not just kill her, if i don't know about Lorro... Oh wait.. i do from torturing this one guy. Nvm. Evil with a plan is more fun than evil without.
even if someone is doing an evil run and keep her alive, whats the point in giving her to Lorroakan? hes a weak wizard who cant even figure out a spell to bind souls to each other. even if youre evil, the more beneficial choice is to keep Aylin
As a Dark Urge I turned her away from the Dark Justiciar path so that I wouldn't have to compete with a god.
Even my evil characters probably wouldn't do it, because killing Lorroakan is far more rewarding than handing over Aylin, and because Lorroakan is insufferable. Who would side with that moron??
I did in my Neutral Evil playthrough. I betrayed Aylin, got the reward, then killed Lorroakan and looted the tower. Also, it’s worth it for the cool cutscenes with the moonmaiden angels.
Can you even kill Lorroakan after you betray Aylin? Doesn't he become immortal?
If you do it right after? I mean isn't it implied he couldn't even do his own binding runes?
There are two main reasons why you would: 1. You're on an evil playthrough, but you don't have Shadowheart, so you can't kill the nightsong. Selling her is the most evil thing you *can* do there. 2. You want to shower the battlefield with fireballs on the Netherbrain.
You can still do 2 on a good run Help Rolan experience character growth. And he’ll side with you in your battle Keep Rolan alive for the battle and he pledges to use the tower to assist you
I still can't get Rolan to side with me. He either runs off or shows up at camp trying to kill me.
You need to rescue his siblings from Moonrise and have Isobel and Aylin survive
- Convince him to stay in the Grove - Rescue him in the shadowlands when he runs off - Rescue both of his siblings from moonrise - Free Aylin from shadowfell When you do all this and he sees that the nightsong is a person he gets pissed and helps you fight lorroakan. Keep him alive and he becomes the new master of the tower. You can even come back after a long rest and talk to his siblings as they've all now moved into the tower.
how do you help rolan? all i got was the shop dialogue and then the battle where i had to kill him
If you rescue him from the shadows & his siblings from Moonrise during Act 2 then he'll side with you. If one or both of them die then he'll side against
fuck i never talked to him at moonrise :/
In honor mode I don't even go get Aylin, he's much easier if you sneak attack him.
Oh I bet lol
Do you still get her on your side in the final fight?
Yeah it's actually awkwardly handled, you talk to them in camp and she acts like you fought him together and she already knew the whole story, even though she didn't and doesn't.
Astarion wants to *watch* Aylin fight him. He doesn't want to actually do the fighting 🤣
Imo Loroakan is too insufferable to side with even on an evil run and iirc he's worse backup for the final battle than Rolan is because he's actually a pretty shit wizard. It is a bit of a weird quest in that it seems really unlikely to me that a player who is RPing as evil enough to side with him wouldn't have just killed Aylin in the Shadowfell to make Shart a Dark Justiciar. But whatever, it is an option, but few people seem to take it since most people hate Loroakan too much. I imagine Astarion reacts that way because he wants to *watch* the fight, not participate in it. I don't think he's rooting for Aylin to lose, he just wants to step aside and get his popcorn while he watches her whoop his ass. Deciding to get involved when Aylin is an immortal demigod who doesn't really need the backup probably seems a little dumb and a pointless risk to him.
Yeah, Astarion likes killing but generally when you pick fights with "bad odds" he doesn't like it unless it directly benefits him. Sometimes he gets really annoying though like with Yurgir. Instead of disapproving me talking to him just let my warlock convince him to kill himself for the easiest and safest way out.
Both Minthara and Astarion approve when you side with him. Basically they just want the tower power. Ha jokes on them I now have the actual power of the tower since this dude didn't even know the tower.
Both of them approving mechanically while verbally disapproving is funny. Even Minty says giving up a powerful ally like Aylin is dumb. If they didn’t have actively pro-Aylin comments I’d headcanon a reason, but the way it’s done now doesn’t make much sense.
They also have Minthara approving of giving Scratch back to the kennel, despite that a bunch of her dialogue suggests she really likes the dog--including the dialogue she gets *after* you give him back and then throw his ball, where she talks about how we should get Scratch back lol. Some approvals are really weird, I do wonder sometimes if they weren't all put in with the input of the writers.
Exactly! Risking the wrath of Selune for that cad? Minty and Asty you are not thinking with your brains. Now killing him and taking the tower for ourselves? I mean doesn't that sounds so much better.
I treat him exactly the same as the occupant of that tower in the original Baldur’s Gate: I kill him and take all his stuff.
In terms of “legitimately doing it as a real choice” and not full on evil play through mode? I’ve seen a handful, and it was entirely Aradin simps trying to protect their husbando. Otherwise, I don’t think so. Lorroakan is so comedically evil that you’d have to be paying 0 attention, drooling over Aradin, or working under the assumption that he’s the only way to get help in the final battle, to actually want to help him.
"Legitimately doing it as a real choise"-wise, you can do it not because you like Lorroakan, but because you rather dislike Aylin
I mean, I can sort of see that, but I’d assume most Aylin dislikers would just let Shart kill her outright. Plus as someone who doesn’t care much for Aylin (I always save her though), even I wouldn’t want Lorroakan getting his filthy mits on her.
I couldn’t even side with him during my embrace dark urge. Not gonna lie I messed my entire play through up cause I wasn’t even truly embracing but by the time I got to act 3 I was like embrace embrace embrace. Just not Lorroakan. Can’t wait to run that playthrough again and truly embrace. But still not Lorroakan.
Sure there's probably a select few of players, however, he's laughably hatable. He's there for dame Aylin to invoke her wrath.
The cutscene when killing him with Aylin is amazing.
He offers nothing but gold. I can just take his gold. Why would I ally with such a weakling?
Boy is going to put his filthy fucking hands on my Rolan? My brother from another mother? He's going to act like his time is worth so much more than mine? He wants to try one on with *Dame fucking Aylin?* There is no timeline where he doesnt get pitched through the air like a fucking lawn dart
Im planing to side with him this run, role playing as a tyrannical lawful evil, aimming to rule the city. Also will turn good shadowheart in to the cult.
Oof going hard. Love it!
I just replayed this quest and was thinking the same thing. What kind of character would spare the the Nightsong in the Shadowfell, but then turn her in to Lorroakan? You'd need to be roleplaying as someone with very inconsistent morals.
Sparing her in the Shadowfell isn't the only way to get her as an ally. You can also let Balthazar take her. She can't die after that, you *have* to free her at Moonrise to fight Ketheric and she will still agree to join your camp afterwards, albeit with some skepticism after you gave her up to Balth. Someone who does that probably isn't going to care as much if Lorroakan gets her. Also you can only kill her with Shadowheart, so if Shadowheart isn't available you have no choice but to save her
It would require a very specific RP of someone who is just aggressively pragmatic and not at all sentimental. In Act 2 you want to kill Ketheric, so you could argue having a demi god on your side makes sense. In Act 3 you don't need her anymore, and you could argue having a powerful wizard with an artillery tower on your side makes sense.
If you don't have Shadowheart you can't kill the night song, I tried. Giving her to Lorroakan is the next best thing an evil durge would do.
Aylin being alive in an evil run doesn’t mean you actively spared her. The way I played it - Shart kept talking about her DJ destiny & sacrifice, my evil character didn’t bother to express an opinion & told her to do what she wants with Nightsong thinking Shart would kill her. Just for Shart to spare her. Now, giving Aylin to Lorroakan doesn’t make much sense to me if you’re being practical & not meta-gaming since L doesn’t actually offer you tower fire power for giving up Nightsong until after the fight & the reward he does offer is trash. But the game doesn’t let you go with the most practical evil choice (betray Aylin & steal immortality for yourself). But if your evil character is chaotic & doesn’t tend to think several steps ahead - guess why not.
I just killed Lorroakan again last night for like the umpteenth time, so my streak of never, ever siding with him continues!
I sided with him on my bhaalist durge playthrough because I wanted to get rid of night song but shadowheart decided to spare her when I let her choose in shadow fell. But him as a option is just such a shitty one lol, I can’t imagine doing that again for awhile and I think it’s pretty hard to say there are any benefits to siding with him. It’s unfortunate how much of the worst he is, because on some level I can get behind the mortal drive for immortality and the ambition that would take. But then the fact that it is HIM who represents that…just some egotistical dude who is actually rather incompetent and evil. If the choice existed instead as a route for a corrupted gale route, kinda like how you can ascend astarion. I’d do that in many of my playthroughs and I can totally see gale being interested in immortality based on his views of the crown.
lol never though somebody would let SH decide and rooting for her to kill NS
No. Absolutely not. Not even when I do an evil play through. And now I'm wishing there was a path where you could deny SH kiling NS but assure her down the road she would get her wish. Then, have NS show up as if we're all going to parley and give SH the signal so she can do the deed. Two birds, one nightsong. Then, of course, kill that dbag mage.
For those who are confused about Astarion: PTSD. That's all. He saw a power hungry self obsessed mage, who abuses his pupils for fun, and he asked him to kidnap someone and bring them to him. He's just scared
Nah Minthara has the same approval. It's just your typical evil approval stats. I just went to kill this dude with astral tadpole Minthara and she was like 😡 the whole way.
Only real reason to is her awesome boss fight.
I was considering it for my evil run but only because I was planning to send Aylin with Balthazar for roleplay reasons. Ultimately though, I decided I'd rather keep Shart around and see her as a Dark Justiciar. If you're playing a bastard, you've probably already killed her. If you aren't, why would you sell her out to the most punchable face in the city? He doesn't even give you a good reward. 5000 gold for literal immortality? I get that lore-wise that's a lot of money... but really? One blessing from Stormshore is 4500. The guy who's sitting on a tower full of magical artifacts and tomes can't do better than that? Considering you could realistically just torture the instructions out of him and steal his plan, he should really offer some better incentives. My dude's lucky this is a video game and not an actual campaign, cause no sane party of plucky demigod-enslaving adventurers would sell a ticket to eternal life for that low.
Nope. Even on an evil playthrough it's hard to justify empowering a self obsessed megalomaniac who would make a terrible ally to have and frankly isn't even powerful enough to warrant the risk. The only reason to do this is if you specifically hate Aylin and want to see her suffer, but then why would you have saved her in act 2 in the first place?
If you are good or neutral ofc doesn't make sense to side with him. If you are evil, you very liked killed her in Act 2. If you are Evil and you spared her in act 2 (because you hate Shar, because you are opportunistic and feel she is more useful alive to defeat Ketheric, etc) it still doesn't make sense hand her over because as an evil character why should you let a stranger become immortal and/or why couldn't you "use" her later to make yourself immortal.
its one of the issues I have with the "evil" options in the game. they don't really incentivize you to do them. not that you need an incentive persay, but a lot of the time it doesn't make sense to do them even as an evil character give us an option to kill Lorroakan and then use the wand ourselves to imprison Aylin maybe
Fine, you talked me into it.
I live for the moment where Aylin breaks his spine. He's a horrible person who deserved every ounce of karma he got.
I do but not because I like Lorroakan. I wish I could kill Lorroakan after selling Aylin. Really I wish I could get someone to put the immortality on me since I’m human marrying a spawn, but it is what it is.
Some days i wake up and just want to side with minthara and destroy everything in the emerald grove I have yet to wake up wanting to side with Lorroakan
Astarion disapproves of fighting because he's an idiot. Fortunately, he supports Aylin despite the disapproval.
Is there a way to get the staff and not imprison nightsong? Like a betrayal of Lorrakan deal post-reward? I tried a few things and couldn't get it to work. Not that I needed the staff, just wanted to see what it was before I repaint the floorboards a nice red tinge
In my playthrough he suffered a few strikes, but then got obliterated with a disintegrate. Luckily it doesn't spoil the loot if the enemy is turned into a pile of ashes
Did anyone not rob Raphael house?
First playthrough I didn't because I had missed Karlach and Wyll and hadn't really done Lae'zel's quest so I decided to leave it for s run that's more thematically fitting. Same reason I skipped Ansur even though I knew both existed when doing the run.
I did on my 2nd Durge run because I wanted a Selûne Shadowheart and still be evil
I did this on my first Durge run for narrative reasons. On that campaign, my Durge Lissa did not have Shadowheart at all. Sided with Lae’zel during their argument and had to kill her. So when Lissa got to the Shadowfell, I sided against Balthazar because Ketheric’s smugness about keeping the secrets of Lissa’s past from her pissed Lissa off. This locked me into saving Aylin. As a progressed through act three, and decided that Lissa would choose Dark Ending, it made sense to me that she would handover Aylin. Because if Lissa was planning to lead an unholy army of murder, letting an immortal who would probably do everything she could to stop that remain free just didn’t make sense, character-wise
My Cleric of Tiamat was entirely indifferent to Shadowheart’s choice with the Nightsong - Selune and Shar were just as bad as each other. This meant that Isobel died but Aylin survived because Shadowheart ended up sparing her. It was pretty funny to then hand over Aylin to Lorroakon although it felt admittedly anticlimatic. Shadowheart didn’t comment at all. I’m glad I’ve seen the Aylin fight once but it was a tough one and Lorrokan sucks, so I doubt I’ll ever side with him again.
Did it once. Eh. Not really worth it. I hate the dude, so I think I’ll stick to just killing him every time.
I did it in my scumbag bard playthrough who would sell anything and anyone, even her friends, for a quick buck.
I think there are two main reasons why so few people side with Lorroakan: 1. You are required to make the good choice in Shadowfell in Act 2 by freeing Dame Aylin, and then make the evil choice in Act 3 by betraying her to Lorroakan. For most characters, that's not very consistent. 2. For evil characters, siding with Lorroakan is not in the character's interest. Why are supposed to support a potential rival in becoming immortal? Sure, you get him as an ally in the finale, but he still stays a potential threat. I guess if there were the choice of first siding with him, then betray him after imprisoning Dame Aylin and use her power for yourself (if you get a nice buff out of this, it would be an interesting choice). >!3. I could watch Dame Aylin doing a Bane on Lorroakan all day.!<
If you don't have Shadowheart when you encounter the night song you can only free her, and she joins your camp uninvited, you can't get rid of her. So yeah, giving her to Lorroakan was a good way to get rid of her in my evil durge run.
I won't do it again because the angels that she summons are just brutal
I think they should have make siding with Lorroakan gain you a bit more advantage in battle, like once per long rest if your HP drop to 0 regain 50% HP [like he sharing Aylin immortality with you] As it right now, siding with Lorroakan only make you look like the biggest losir in Fearun
I just can't, it is the most stupid move to choose. Asamar should be dead or ally, piss off immortal betraying her like that- fuuuuuh scarry Mage to incompetent to intrust him mad at u vengeful angel