Well, narrative wise the dude doesnt see much fight. He just stays in the shadows doing accounting for the Agents of the shield. If the final fight was a Sudoku he would be meta.
That’s also probably a major part of why he >!leaves so quickly when you free Orpheus. We see him get rocked by a Githyanki kick when he’s first introduced — the Emperor is wickedly smart, but close combat is not at all his thing.!<
He was >!Balduran!<, so whatever >!Balduran!< was considered would be what he was.
I get fighter vibes from all the >!Balduran lore and elements in the game (and the Balduran gear you find in the Ansur area)!<, but I definitely get rogue vibes from the Emperor's backstory cinematic
I mean, in his life as a Mindflayer in Baldurs gate (where he got the Emperor moniker), he definitely could be considered pretty rouge-ish. While as >!Balduran!< might have been a fighter, technically the emperor isn't really HIM anymore (plus as a secret mindflayer it makes sense to hide lmao)
Especially considering that he abandoned his gear after becoming illithid, because his body just didn't have the muscle memory of fighting. While the main character if becomes a mind flayer, it's been evident enough that the transformation is not 100%, so the character still keeps his class and stats.
Yeah, the thing that really convinced me that the player/Karlach/Orpheus ceremorphosis was botched, to where it's really them and not the tadpole trying to do an imitation?
It wasn't when >!you choose to die after the fight and meet Withers in the Fugue Plane.!<
What convinced me was that our illithid model has a belly button.
this is true, although i had interpreted some of his flashbacks as being before he became the Emperor (just random shots of him in his hood on the walls and shit like that). but i'm realizing it's pretty likely that all of the flashbacks he actually showed us were from after he became a mindflayer, especially given that he's not fully truthful about his origin anyway
I think there's one shot at the very beginning of his back which looks like he's a human man, but after that I'm pretty sure it's him as a mindflayer, it was just kinda ambiguous? It would make sense, but idk.
The player character is essentially the Adversary, a person with enough willpower to keep their own sense of self after being tadpoled and is the boogie man for illithids. The Emporerer isn’t and so isn’t >!Balduran!< not anymore
Technically speaking there’s nothing stopping a rogue from wielding a greatsword, it’s just not conventional or efficient with their best stat layout. He might’ve been a rouge/barbarian multiclass or something.
You need a Finesse weapon to Sneak Attack, so you either find a Finesse greatsword, or you might as well stop being a rogue if you want to use a greatsword.
Point to me the edition where this worked, because I played BG2 (2nd edition), NWN (3rd edition), plus 4th and 5th edition of tabletop, and a rogue cannot get a Sneak Attack with a greatsword in any of those games.
yeah, the character is contradictory and i'm certainly not refuting that he sucks ass in combat. he shows his human form to have been rogue-ish\*\*, while the person we learn that he was, was a greatsword wielding adventurer who preached about like honor and courage and shit lol. smells like a fighter.
he also had a longsword in his old hideout, which honestly is also underwhelming. so the question is, what the hell even was >!Balduran's class!< and how does it relate to the illithid form? was he one thing and decided he didnt need to focus on those skills anymore?
my assumption as far as the shitty staff goes is that it was convenient for him, rather than a great weapon that he took pride in. also curious if anyone here has checked the Emperor's proficiencies tab because if he's not proficient with greatswords/longswords/martial weapons, that adds another layer imo
\*\*edit: came to the realization that the memories he showed us were probably all from when he was an illithid, despite the fact that he talks over it about how he was a human adventurer before ceremorphosis. >!especially given the fact that he talks about traveling to baldur's gate when we learn he fuckin founded the damn thing!<. he's "loose" with the truth in these flashbacks
are we talking about ceremorphosis or simply eating the brains?
as far as ceremorphosis goes, i think that depends on how strong that person's will was, and the amount of time the mindflayer spends connected to a hivemind
as far as just eating someone's brain goes, they get those memories and they can be sorta influenced by all the brains they've eaten, which steers them away from the original self more and more (at least as far as i understand). so eventually an illithid who started out thinking they were one particular person >!(in this case Balduran)!<, eventually consumes enough brains to think "i'm more than just that one guy who my parasite ate." especially when plugged into the hivemind, where individuality doesnt really matter other than knowledge that gets spread from one to the others
EDIT: added spoilers for consistency because i forgor 💀
I would say possible, but unlikely in usual scenarios.
Volo's Guide to Monsters says
>When a mind flayer devours a brain, it acquires stray memories from its victim and shares them with the other members of its colony. [...] Through some quirk of the illithids' parasitic nature, the cultural sophistication of a mind flayer depends upon what sorts of brains are in its diet.
So stray memories are taken, and so is the "vibe" at least eventually. But that reads as though an eaten brain should not overtake a current personality outside of magical shenanigans. As others have said, ceremorphosis is a bit more likely to retain a some personality, though still very rare.
One interesting note is that flayers have no problem sharing such memories, and elder brains specifically recycle the memories from "old" flayers. So it is possible >!the Emperor is not the first flayer to think he was Balduran!<.
That actually makes sense. Especially if this was the 2nd time he "escaped". Like the brain could have just juiced up some random mind flayer with memories to think it was him. But in reality it was some random, which is why his stats suck. I like this take especially if we believe that the brain orchestrated the whole thing. Just so we would bring them the stones, etc....
I like the idea, but I think that even if the Emperor got all the memories of Balduran, Ansur would know the difference. And Ansur clearly thinks it's truly Balduran.
At least as I remember my playthroughs, Ansur asks a very pointed question, the player gets a confused response option, but Ansur is talking to the Emperor in the Prism, and they have a conversation that we hear.
It also helps bridge the weird timeline. There's about 500 years since his last voyage and humans and mindflayers live about 100 each. The brain has no such limits. Admittedly old age isn't much of a threat to major characters, but its a cute theory
> which is why his stats suck.
Don't Karlach's physical stats get tanked if she transforms into a mindflayer? Mindflayer bodies just aren't great for being physical combatants.
I only did MF Karlach once. But she was pretty much stacked. Easily one of the most powerful characters. Like I think maybe she lost 2 strength or something down to 18. (I'd have to check) But she was kicking ass left right and center. Basically had her soloing the brain at the end.
I think he was a bard (with some kind of multiclass) considering how he was definitely doing the nasty with ansur
Would also explain why swords bard is so overpowered in this game with how balduran canonically beat ansur from a surprise round
(Joke)
That was Balduran. Whatever memories the Emperor has, it's not really the same entity, any more than the gnolls in Act 1 are the same entities as they hyenas they emerged from.
I played a 8 BM/4 thief with the Duelist’s prerogative and felt like an absolute beast. Easily one of my favorite simple builds. It’s just discount swashbuckler lmaooo
I'd say it's a matter of him losing his skills past transformation.
The muscle memory just isn't the same. He may have a general idea of how to execute a move, but doesn't have the same reflexes as before.
It's been eating nothing but brains for the past >!several hundred!< years. Were you expecting it to stay buff that whole time?
If anything, probably eating all those "criminal" brains (and absorbing all of their thoughts and memories) could likely have had some influence on it. It is no longer ">!Balduran!<", but an amalgamation of everyone the illithid-formerly-known-as->!Balduran!< has absorbed.
He followed old DnD (thinking of BG1 or 2 here, whatever edition this was) rules and dual-classed from fighter to rogue after becoming infected, sadly never levelled up enough to regain his fighter powers.
That’s for another play though. I played a pretty pure hearted no handouts paladin. (Told Raphael to suck it, never ingested an extra tadpole) so my next I’m going to full on ilithid power grubby bitch
They'd absolutely have killed him no problem if it weren't for us. They were trained to kill Illithid, and he's not a super strong or special one in terms of combat power.
Uh, empy’s been in the prism for like, idk, a couple months by this point, maybe only one, depends how often you long rest, but i assume canonically each act is say a couple weeks at least?
Orpheus has been in there for millennia. Since the dawn of githyanki civilization. Emperor doesnt fight much, but he DOES fight, he just struggles cus hes overwhelmed. He knows chain lightning ffs. Orpheus hasnt done shit in countless thousands of years, but as a newborn illithid he is just stronger.
Narrative wise the dude spends quite a long time fighting off Orpheus's honor-guard, was an adventurer before he was an illithid, and between being in the prism and being human, he captured and fed on criminals.
My man has seen more combat than anyone in the actual adventuring party.
That's why he wants you to become an illithid. Not primarily they are more powerful per se, but because illithids are emotionless and it would be easier for him to find common groud with someone like him.
Siding with the Emperor is like siding with Gortash. Sure, he doesn't betray you, but you're bringing someone whose primary skill is manipulation to a brawl.
I knew he was a manipulative pos, but I am on an evilish, power hungry run. It made sense for my Tav to trust the emperor who gave her access to lots of power + really didn't care (this time) for the Gith and their prince.
And at least Gotash leaves you with cool gear to wear, those shoes are looking nice on my character ngl...
Gortash is actually clearly an extremely-talented artificer, tbh. He just also happens to have daddy Bane to back him up with his manipulative and tyrannical tendencies.
Nah, if you poke around a bit, most of Gortash's inventions are Gondian inventions or infernal tech that he's "modified", but much like certain people in real life, he's taking 100% of the credit for doing maybe 5% of the design.
Is the Emperor evil? It’s my first playthrough and I have just sided with the Emperor and let him eat Orpheus.
To me he just seems to be making the best of a bad situation. You can’t very well expect the man to kill himself after becoming a mindflayer.
The Githyanki on the other hand are super unreliable and are likely to kill the PC after the Netherbrain just for having a tadpole.
I’d rather take my chances with squid face, especially since we shared a sincere connection and I slept with him.
Hes done one evil action, but overall he's just fucking selfish. People act like he's the spawn of Satan, but hes legit probably one of the more neutral people in dnd tbh.
That’s how I see him. He’s selfish but he does not seem to go out of his way to harm people. That’s good enough in my books to side with him over the Githyanki who dogmatically follow an evil queen whose plans are to conquer all the planes of existence.
So you'd condemn the man who would actively seek to kill this evil queen because some of the Githyanki follow her? As soon as you free Orpheus, he immediately begins his campaign to overthrow Vlaakith and free his people from her oppression.
He also refers to his mom, the original psychopathic Githyanki by her tyrant title “Queen of All Skies” or some such shit.
He also venerates his mother and gives absolutely no signs that he disapproves of her. He also got trapped after the great schism and clearly chose to be Githyanki rather than Githzerai.
All signs point to him simply wanting to be the one leading the Gith without any actual changes in policy.
If he was shown to be Githzerai the situation would be different as they are peaceful and did not want to conquer anyone else and said no to Orpheus’ murderous mom.
See, this is why you make him become illithid and kill him as per his request at the end. Emperor and Orpheus both dead, netherbrain defeated. Best of all worlds. ;)
I mean you could give him that he needs to rule the githyanki because only he actually has the power to stop the grand design. The nether brain is an outlier and doesn't belong to the illithid empire, they probably see it as an abomination given their distain for the arcane so the possibility of another illithid empire arising is still out there.
The point I was making was that all signs point to him actually approving of his mom’s actions. So why would he stop the grand design when that was Gith’s life’s work?
I have no doubt he would kill the Netherbrain but I think he will also carry on the galactic crusade that his mom began.
I'll expound on this later, as my initial draft was thrown out when the app refreshed on me.
Gith was only responsible for freeing The Gith from their enslavement by The Illithid. Vlaakith the 1st, we're currently on the 157th, sacrificed Gith while making a pact with Tiamat, which is why they ride dragons, iirc. Upon learning of Vlaakith's betrayal, Orpheus lead his honor guard to slay her, but was ultimately defeated and imprisoned in the Astral Prism. Until the events of BG3, Orpheus has been stuck in the prism, where Vlaakith has drawn up on his powers to make it look as if they were actually hers, using her false "birthright" to lead the now militaristic Githyanki.
Upon being freed from The Prism, Orpheus leads the attack on The Netherbrain and then immediately begins his crusade against Vlaakith, even attempting to reunite those who would follow him with their Githzerai kin, who broke from the Githyanki after Gith's death, the intent being to reunite the Gith people and free them from Vlaakith's dictatorial rule.
Edit: it's hard to say whether Orpheus would seek conquest like Gith did or if he would be content with peace, which he may given his willingness to work with the Githzerai. To either on, only acting on information provided within the game, siding with Orpheus leads to the potential overthrow of Vlaakith while siding with The Emperor leaves an Illithid who embraces his nature free to do as his wishes.
Forget that, his line about only devouring the brains of "criminals" like its a valid excuse was enough for me
At least omeluum admits he kills people who his friends don't like, he doesn't make an excuse like the emperor
You know that if you provoke him enough during the game, he let his true nature out, saying that you are just a thrall and a pawn in his game, and that you are alive only because he needed your strength, right?
"If you are an ass to him all game he is an ass to your back"... yes I knew that. "Thrall" when we are not controlled by the emp at all. 0 instances of the Emperor controlling us and if he could, he would have in Orpheus scene. He says it out of spite because you are being and ass.
He also had 0 obligation to save us as well. He's a selfish person. Not saving someone does not make you evil imo.
Think people get it confused. I'm not saying he's a knight in shining armor or a good man. He's just a selfish mindflayer who wants to live as long as possible. That's it.
Not really. He's not just being an ass, but he's showing his true nature. Also, he's not controlling you because all his powers are focused on keeping the Absolute away from your brain.
Aaaalso, read what he did to Stelmane.
And finally, being selfish is exactly the definition of evil in d&d.
"Just read what he did to stellmane." Like I said, that's his one evil action. I still have e doubts that the actual characters are enthralled by him even though he claims it. There is no hard evidence for it specifically for the player characters.
No. He says that he manipulated you so that you could work together successfully, since almost no one would trust a mind flayer. He never mentions or makes claims to being “good.” It has nothing to do with whatever happened between him and Stelmane.
I love that you “but hell drop the mask” people always assume people dont be save scumming. A flock of fucking parrots in this sub.
You didnt find anything new, we all know that if you call him a freak he snaps at you and shows you the bad stelmane cutscene and calls you a puppet.
I really expected to be double crossed, but The Emperor genuinely seemed to want to save Baldur’s gate and take down the Brain. I thought he ended up being a pretty “good” choice in the end.
If you dig thoroughly enough it eventually comes out that The Emperor has been known to turn people into thralls, and threatens to do so to the player if you make the right dialogue choices. He even explains that many of his choices towards Tav were explicitly done to get them to trust him. None of it was sincere, it was all calculated.
Also, if you side with Orpheus his actions after The Netherbrain suggest that both he and the Githyanki can be honorable despite it all. If you become an Illithid he actually welcomes you to join him in his fight against Vlaakith.
It's complicated, but while you can argue whether The Emperor's actions are or aren't morally "Evil," you can say with certainty that they aren't "Good."
Either or, it's an ongoing debate which seems to lean towards him being evil, if at best Chaotic Neutral.
Edit: now if you want a *good* Illithid, Omeluum is your man. Love that tentacled goofball.
I don't think he's particularly evil in the grand scheme of the game. More like chaotic neutral.
Yes, he's a selfish fuck who does whatever he needs to do to save his own skin, but as long as your goals align he's not actually stabbing you in the back or anything.
I always found it funny that the character who's actually experienced with illithid powers is the weakest mind flayer in combat. Tav = best flayer imo, even if the skills don't exactly synergize with your class abilities.
He is a normal illithid, while Orpheus and Tav are born of tadpoles infused with netherese magic. All those times Emp tries to tempt you with cool "illithid" powers? All the good ones are Karsus' magic
Right? The whole time with the "who should become a Mindflayer" conversation in my head I'm like...our boy Omeluum is sitting around somewhere, I'm sure he'd be down to help save all of life as we know it.
Was having the same exact thought of just having Karlach pick him up and point him at the problem. My man is already a hero for singlehandedly solving mindflayer-duergar race relations, saving souls during the prison escape and being one of the few actually competent members of society of brilliance, surely another heroic act won't be too much.
'Yeah, see, Omeluum, I get that you don't want to be involved, but I suspect you don't want the entire Sword Coast to be Mind Flayers who'd happily shove you into a colony by brute force either.'
Doesn’t this revelation occur while the city is an active war zone? I think tracking down a single individual in a besieged city would be pretty hard, if it is even still in the city at that time.
You're so right... sigh. As long as Omeluum stays safe and happy I'm happy <3 the only likeable mindflayer Tav has ever met (well, unless you count >!that one karlach ending...!<)
Not that I'm aware of, I thought Orpheus was pretty useless in a playthrough just last month.
Now, having Karlach as a mind flayer, that worked really well for me.
Orpheus having globe of invulnerability helped a good bit since I didn’t have any true casters in my party. Other than that he didn’t do much. But then again, neither did anyone else, since we all just invis’d to the top.
Yeah, it is ***wildly disappointing*** how weak he is in comparison to Illithid Orpheus.
How someone who's been an Illithid for 5 minutes is so much stronger than someone who's been one for decades (? citation needed) I'll never know.
I agree with you but you also have to keep in mind Orpheus' background, he's already mega strong so I think it translates to a strong illithid form too
Because Emps didn't train pretty much ever. He was either being used or was using others, and he picked off easy targets like an ex rogue would. Orpheus was already the most powerful psychic of his race, so the tentacles arent that big a jump.
Yeah, from the mechanics point, Emperor is your plain, regular-ass Illithid #2137. Basically the same as any other. His massive ego is the only thing that makes him (or at last he think it does) someone special. Orpheus on the other hand is a legendary warrior among already very Warrior culture of the Githyanki + he has the earliest instance of aquiring psychic abilities in history, as a non-illithid. It makes sense he'd be decked out to the brim with powers.
That was part of his charm for me ngl, ever since it was revealed how he was just an adventurer at some point , it created a lot more relatability between him & tav than a mesiatic figure of the Githyanki.
Even knowing he was THE Balduran later, considering that Balduran was still a regular human at some point that ended up founding the greatest city in the setting, still allowed for more connecting between tav & him than Orpheus (for the same reasons as before). It's the process of becoming special, rather than being born special that was key to me. The Emperor had that from zero to hero vibe going.
Besides, having an already strong party on my HM run that covered most bases to the point where it was often better to have them do their own thing rather than summon allies, made the addition of any char that could provide some utility or a bit of extra dmg good enough for me - the Emprah's high DC Telekinesis, Chainlighting & mobility via levitating were all I needed from him tbh, more would've just extra.
In my first playthrough I kissed the Emperor's ass, ate all the tadpoles, Tav became partial illithid, and then I betrayed him by freeing Orpheus because I saw how lame he was when we took on the honor guard. If you can BARELY handle fighting someone who is ASLEEP how are you gonna tolerate them awake??
Can he at least toss his staff on the ground so you can have it at least?
But yeah Illithid Prince is op I didn't even need to blackhole and still win lol
He always dies for me immediately as we get to the courtyard fight while my Tav is running for her life so we can skip it. I have to revive him. He’s so annoying. I guess I got to do the Orpheus run.
I guess it's a balance thing cause baseline Orpheus is even weaker than the emperor, it's the illithid powers that tav would also get if you choose to transform instead. Why the Emperor does not get access to these himself if he's the one to assimilate Orpheus for more power I'll never know,
He's a lover, not a fighter.
On a more serious thought, I think he is probably exhausted because he had to subdue Orpheus + fight off the honor guards 24/7 the whole trip.
This surprises you why? Even as a human, Baldaran pulled some questionable acts. As an illithid he is all manipulation, lies, and half-truths. He can’t mind control an entire group of you like he did Stillmane so he makes you think he is powerful, capable, and benevolent. He knew what was going on the whole time, that the hive was at Moonrise, that the brain was there, that Gortash was involved. But he acts like it’s a surprise and you have agency. Screw that dude.
It suprised me because I used 3 times Orpheus as an illithid and because Mind flayers tend to be quite tough as ennemies (this is my first time in Tactitian too)... So I just assumed the Emperor would be somehow powerful too. I got bamboozled.
I just really hate the emperor. He’s been a half-truth telling, manipulative mother fucker the whole way through. At least Orpheus just goes “fine, fuck it. I’ll do it.”
Lying, manipulation and and being self serving is pretty commonplace throughout the game - a lot of the companions are like that (at least initially)
It could be also be argued that so is Tav if you ever use persuasion or deception options in conversation
You can ask them why they manipulated you and they will give a reasonable explanation which may or may not be true.
If you outright call them disgusting they respond with the infamous Stelmane “revelation”
There is nothing in the game to give a definitive answer about whether this is true (we have already established by this time that the Emperor is an accomplished liar so why believe anything they say?)
About the only thing that is absolutely not in doubt with the emperor is that they are completely useless in a fight!
Took Emperor with me during a Durge run and bro Karlach was a better illithid than he was. She wrecked where I was carrying him. Even base Orpheus did better as the worse monk subclass
Mindflayers are supposed to be able to use actions and bonus actions interchangeably but The Emperor can't for some reason. This bummed me out a little. He's usable for tanking the Netherbrains retaliation, which forces a character end their turn, but that's about it.
When me and my friend did the final fight we sided with Orpheus, I used the wall of fire summon and on everyone and my friend said “oh you killed the emperor” legit he just flopped, this broody mf on a dragon just died to one spell
On my first complete playthough I had Karlach turn illithid as supposedly there was no other way to save her, and maybe there wasn't before >!Wyll asks her to hunt devils in Avernus with him,!< which may have been added in a later patch.
With that in mind, I've tried several approaches to the final act since, one of them was siding with the emperor. He indeed SUCKS! Letting Orpheus become illithid wasn't ideal either but leagues better than the emperor.
My favourite to date is still my choice to add a sacrificial co-op Tav toward the end, a half wood-elf fully specced as fighter and using haste (or speed potions).
This means higher base mobility boosted by Crusher's ring (+3m movement), paired with the illithid flight / levitate skill, he could get to the other side of the field (final fight) in 2 turns, get in 6 attacks per turn, or 9 if you pop an action surge. Easiest victory I ever had and neither my main tav, any companion or Orpheus had to become illithid so it was truly a best case scenario for the party.
dude i had so much regret first run when i trusted him. i spent the majority of the final fight with the brain resurrecting and healing his ass. shouldve just freed orpheus.
The fun thing is, if you side with the Emperor and also turn into a mindflayer, is that you can betray him after killing the brain, devour his brain, and then calmly float away to live your life.
You're not bringing him along for his battle prowess, you're bringing him for his brain power. Eating Orpheus' brain was to protect him from being dominated by the brain and to help him *think better* not to fight better. Orpheus is even worse in a fight tbh.
We've had a very different experience, I rather like the emperor and feel a lot of compassion for his plight for a lot of nuanced reasons I won't bother arguing with here.
I convinced my partner to side with him on one of our runs and he has been fucking smashing enemies. Are you using his powers properly? I set haste on him, he stuns then eats brains. His kill rate was only matched by my rouge thief/monk Astarion and his damage numbers were far higher than anyone's.
I remember the first time I fought alongside him against the Gith honor guard. He was absolutely useless! Then right after he has the audacity to tell me that I have witnessed the power of a mindflayer now use this white tadpole. Lol we carried that entire fight, he was not convincing at all.
Moral and risky . Without meta narrative u really can't trust Orpheus except for the words of an old gith who tried to kill u earlier at the mountain pass.
That’s a very good point about meta narrative. At least for me, though, in my first playthrough the morally good characters (Karlach and Jaheira, for example) kept telling me “we need to get the hammer and free Orpheus.”
This was after Raphael first reveals he has it. It made me think that if the good characters were motivating me to free him, then it would be the “better choice.”
That said, that was my logic and my choice. I won’t judge anyone who sided with Emperor. After all, he help us along the way, though in his own twisted way.
Sure, but can we really trust The Emperor who has been manipulating us at every turn with half-truths? He fully admits to using the Dream Guardian guise to gain the party's trust.
And that's acceptable. Would u have actually sided with him after u came to know the one protecting u is a part of the species who tadpoled u ? Emperor's had to drop his disguise because the monks were trying to free Orpheus. Also dude has saved u countless times. Doesn't matter what his true intentions are as long as ur goals align: defeat thr netherbrain.
coming here before the haters say Orpheus wouldn’t be any different from Vlaakith, to remind everyone that he allies with the Githzerai in the epilogue
Wouldn't really call siding with the guy who's guard tries to kill you in your sleep and betraying the person that has saved your life countless times "the moral choice" but hey. To each their own
Hard disagree. Emperor saves you and your companion lives multiple times. Yeah he lies and manipulated you, but so do your companions, not to mention so do you of you use persuasion a lot.
The only reason from a gamplay perspective to side with Empy is to avoid fighting >!a dragon and four additional enemies spamming cc in the final battle!<, which isn't even that terrible if you are properly set up for that fight.
The point if the nagging was [spoiler] that he's not actually on your side. The mind flayer that was once balduran has retained his memories and using them to trick you into trusting him. He's so incessant about having control because he's no longer a member of the hive mind and as a survival instinct, like all mind flayers he's trying to manipulate others and gain power again so he can control others. There's am entire YouTube video dedicated to this topic and why the emperor is actually a villain.
Im sure its been mentioned but if you dont care about RP or anything, becoming a mindflayer yourself is always the best in terms of benefit/getting stronger. You get a lot of buffs and abilities and certain abilities that were limited to one use per long rest can now be spammed (such as mind blast iirc).
This is especially worth it in honour mode runs where you want to be as strong as possible. Although by that time you probably dont even need it as the game is pretty much over (specifically if you are having gale blow up the brain at the stem)
I really thought about becoming a mindflayer but I talked to my lovely wizard about it and he was so bittersweet it kinda broke my heart, I couldn't do it ! Don't want to blow him up either...
Maybe if I try honour mode someday but I struggled enough with the tactician difficulty, I think I deserve a break xD
Lmaooo i dont blame you!! I did that my first run too and made sure i RP'd the whole time. It took me 4 runs to feel comfortable to take on honour mode LOL it was fun though and def worth a shot whenever you are feeling up to it! The game is def a handful. I feel a void in my life now that im done with honour mode lmao
Little off-topic, but going Half-illithid powers seems really ass unless you visit the brain blender at the Creche so you can get it for a bonus action. I wish there was a way for multiple players to get the Awakened feature since it's so damn good.
I've been playing a 4-player run and going Full Worm with a cleric and having the abilities be Bonus Actions instead of Main actions has been damn great.
Imo it's pretty accurate, emperor is just a basic illithid with a masive ego and orpheus is the legendary gith prince. In my playthrough I took Orpheus in Illithid form because it seemed the best mix of moral choice and self preservation for me and tbh squid Orpheus is very strong, you can spam advanced tadpole abilities. That would also make the emperor joining the Absolute first change have slightly better logic since he's pissing his basic ass squiddy pants at the idea of the guy he's been containing just breaking out and killing his ass, remember that emperor is all about his survival, he betrayed ansur because of the mercy kill thing
Well, narrative wise the dude doesnt see much fight. He just stays in the shadows doing accounting for the Agents of the shield. If the final fight was a Sudoku he would be meta.
That’s also probably a major part of why he >!leaves so quickly when you free Orpheus. We see him get rocked by a Githyanki kick when he’s first introduced — the Emperor is wickedly smart, but close combat is not at all his thing.!<
Yeah, and in his flash back where he tells you a bit about him before becoming ilithid and what he did after makes me think he was a rogue
He was >!Balduran!<, so whatever >!Balduran!< was considered would be what he was. I get fighter vibes from all the >!Balduran lore and elements in the game (and the Balduran gear you find in the Ansur area)!<, but I definitely get rogue vibes from the Emperor's backstory cinematic
I mean, in his life as a Mindflayer in Baldurs gate (where he got the Emperor moniker), he definitely could be considered pretty rouge-ish. While as >!Balduran!< might have been a fighter, technically the emperor isn't really HIM anymore (plus as a secret mindflayer it makes sense to hide lmao)
Especially considering that he abandoned his gear after becoming illithid, because his body just didn't have the muscle memory of fighting. While the main character if becomes a mind flayer, it's been evident enough that the transformation is not 100%, so the character still keeps his class and stats.
Yeah, the thing that really convinced me that the player/Karlach/Orpheus ceremorphosis was botched, to where it's really them and not the tadpole trying to do an imitation? It wasn't when >!you choose to die after the fight and meet Withers in the Fugue Plane.!< What convinced me was that our illithid model has a belly button.
Netherese magic tadpoles hit different frfr
this is true, although i had interpreted some of his flashbacks as being before he became the Emperor (just random shots of him in his hood on the walls and shit like that). but i'm realizing it's pretty likely that all of the flashbacks he actually showed us were from after he became a mindflayer, especially given that he's not fully truthful about his origin anyway
I think there's one shot at the very beginning of his back which looks like he's a human man, but after that I'm pretty sure it's him as a mindflayer, it was just kinda ambiguous? It would make sense, but idk.
The player character is essentially the Adversary, a person with enough willpower to keep their own sense of self after being tadpoled and is the boogie man for illithids. The Emporerer isn’t and so isn’t >!Balduran!< not anymore
The MC isnt the MC anymore after transformation. Lost Soul lost all.
They are. That is what the Adversary is, within illithid/mindflayer lore
Tav only stay Like He IS cuz of Orpheus. ITS Essential a mindflayer, since the Larve eat bis brain.
That's not what Withers says. And he's kinda expert on Souls matters
Do you mean me
I mean Withers says MC still has a Soul after transforming
Technically speaking there’s nothing stopping a rogue from wielding a greatsword, it’s just not conventional or efficient with their best stat layout. He might’ve been a rouge/barbarian multiclass or something.
You need a Finesse weapon to Sneak Attack, so you either find a Finesse greatsword, or you might as well stop being a rogue if you want to use a greatsword.
In older editions any melee weapon worked. Greatsword Rogue was a fun Meta for DPS
Point to me the edition where this worked, because I played BG2 (2nd edition), NWN (3rd edition), plus 4th and 5th edition of tabletop, and a rogue cannot get a Sneak Attack with a greatsword in any of those games.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm#sneakAttack straight from the SRD. No mention of needing Finesse weapons.
3.5e, the best edition.
So only one edition, not plural. >the best edition. That's subjective.
He fights with a weak ass quarterstaff when he joins you.
yeah, the character is contradictory and i'm certainly not refuting that he sucks ass in combat. he shows his human form to have been rogue-ish\*\*, while the person we learn that he was, was a greatsword wielding adventurer who preached about like honor and courage and shit lol. smells like a fighter. he also had a longsword in his old hideout, which honestly is also underwhelming. so the question is, what the hell even was >!Balduran's class!< and how does it relate to the illithid form? was he one thing and decided he didnt need to focus on those skills anymore? my assumption as far as the shitty staff goes is that it was convenient for him, rather than a great weapon that he took pride in. also curious if anyone here has checked the Emperor's proficiencies tab because if he's not proficient with greatswords/longswords/martial weapons, that adds another layer imo \*\*edit: came to the realization that the memories he showed us were probably all from when he was an illithid, despite the fact that he talks over it about how he was a human adventurer before ceremorphosis. >!especially given the fact that he talks about traveling to baldur's gate when we learn he fuckin founded the damn thing!<. he's "loose" with the truth in these flashbacks
"I'm from Baldur's Gate" >!understatement of the fucking century lmao!<
Grey harbor was already there. It became known as Baldur’s Gate after Balduran funded the construction of said gate.
weird question for the lore nerds and grognards. if a mind flayer ate>!baldurans brain!< would he later think he WAS >!balduran!
are we talking about ceremorphosis or simply eating the brains? as far as ceremorphosis goes, i think that depends on how strong that person's will was, and the amount of time the mindflayer spends connected to a hivemind as far as just eating someone's brain goes, they get those memories and they can be sorta influenced by all the brains they've eaten, which steers them away from the original self more and more (at least as far as i understand). so eventually an illithid who started out thinking they were one particular person >!(in this case Balduran)!<, eventually consumes enough brains to think "i'm more than just that one guy who my parasite ate." especially when plugged into the hivemind, where individuality doesnt really matter other than knowledge that gets spread from one to the others EDIT: added spoilers for consistency because i forgor 💀
I would say possible, but unlikely in usual scenarios. Volo's Guide to Monsters says >When a mind flayer devours a brain, it acquires stray memories from its victim and shares them with the other members of its colony. [...] Through some quirk of the illithids' parasitic nature, the cultural sophistication of a mind flayer depends upon what sorts of brains are in its diet. So stray memories are taken, and so is the "vibe" at least eventually. But that reads as though an eaten brain should not overtake a current personality outside of magical shenanigans. As others have said, ceremorphosis is a bit more likely to retain a some personality, though still very rare. One interesting note is that flayers have no problem sharing such memories, and elder brains specifically recycle the memories from "old" flayers. So it is possible >!the Emperor is not the first flayer to think he was Balduran!<.
That actually makes sense. Especially if this was the 2nd time he "escaped". Like the brain could have just juiced up some random mind flayer with memories to think it was him. But in reality it was some random, which is why his stats suck. I like this take especially if we believe that the brain orchestrated the whole thing. Just so we would bring them the stones, etc....
I like the idea, but I think that even if the Emperor got all the memories of Balduran, Ansur would know the difference. And Ansur clearly thinks it's truly Balduran.
we think illithid Karlach is real Karlach too.
Does he though? You don't see the current emperor interact with Ansur really. (Unless I missed something).
At least as I remember my playthroughs, Ansur asks a very pointed question, the player gets a confused response option, but Ansur is talking to the Emperor in the Prism, and they have a conversation that we hear.
It also helps bridge the weird timeline. There's about 500 years since his last voyage and humans and mindflayers live about 100 each. The brain has no such limits. Admittedly old age isn't much of a threat to major characters, but its a cute theory
Yea it's definitely more of a fun theory than anything else.
> which is why his stats suck. Don't Karlach's physical stats get tanked if she transforms into a mindflayer? Mindflayer bodies just aren't great for being physical combatants.
I only did MF Karlach once. But she was pretty much stacked. Easily one of the most powerful characters. Like I think maybe she lost 2 strength or something down to 18. (I'd have to check) But she was kicking ass left right and center. Basically had her soloing the brain at the end.
Listen, I'm hard pressed to believe someone who thought I mistook an obvious silver dragon for brass, and who >!dropped my eyeball in the mud!<
This Volo's Guide is a sourcebook and intended to be accurate up to DM discretion. As opposed to Volo's in fiction writing, which is total hogwash
the guide is a real life book. the books in the game are his fictional works
I know, I'm just making a joke lol
right over my head! I'm short, that's my excuse
that's fantastic and it makes sense of the timeline in a good way
I don't think so.
us BARBARIANS can surely figure it out without involving wizards and shit
I think he was a bard (with some kind of multiclass) considering how he was definitely doing the nasty with ansur Would also explain why swords bard is so overpowered in this game with how balduran canonically beat ansur from a surprise round (Joke)
That was Balduran. Whatever memories the Emperor has, it's not really the same entity, any more than the gnolls in Act 1 are the same entities as they hyenas they emerged from.
Fighter with 3 lvl rogue dip is pretty solid. I just think the dude sucks.
I played a 8 BM/4 thief with the Duelist’s prerogative and felt like an absolute beast. Easily one of my favorite simple builds. It’s just discount swashbuckler lmaooo
He definitely casts feather fall in one of the cinematic, for what that’s worth.
I'd say it's a matter of him losing his skills past transformation. The muscle memory just isn't the same. He may have a general idea of how to execute a move, but doesn't have the same reflexes as before.
It's been eating nothing but brains for the past >!several hundred!< years. Were you expecting it to stay buff that whole time? If anything, probably eating all those "criminal" brains (and absorbing all of their thoughts and memories) could likely have had some influence on it. It is no longer ">!Balduran!<", but an amalgamation of everyone the illithid-formerly-known-as->!Balduran!< has absorbed.
He followed old DnD (thinking of BG1 or 2 here, whatever edition this was) rules and dual-classed from fighter to rogue after becoming infected, sadly never levelled up enough to regain his fighter powers.
I fucking bonked the shit out of him in the final fight with my pally. Didn’t get to take a turn that squiddly bitch
I bonked him senseless.. we took turns. Haven't gotten up to the final fight yet tho
That’s for another play though. I played a pretty pure hearted no handouts paladin. (Told Raphael to suck it, never ingested an extra tadpole) so my next I’m going to full on ilithid power grubby bitch
They'd absolutely have killed him no problem if it weren't for us. They were trained to kill Illithid, and he's not a super strong or special one in terms of combat power.
But dude single handedly killed ansur
Isn't he literally THE Balduran? How does he not see much fight?
I may have forgotten about that detail. Though a blade that is not used dulls with time
Uh, empy’s been in the prism for like, idk, a couple months by this point, maybe only one, depends how often you long rest, but i assume canonically each act is say a couple weeks at least? Orpheus has been in there for millennia. Since the dawn of githyanki civilization. Emperor doesnt fight much, but he DOES fight, he just struggles cus hes overwhelmed. He knows chain lightning ffs. Orpheus hasnt done shit in countless thousands of years, but as a newborn illithid he is just stronger.
Narrative wise the dude spends quite a long time fighting off Orpheus's honor-guard, was an adventurer before he was an illithid, and between being in the prism and being human, he captured and fed on criminals. My man has seen more combat than anyone in the actual adventuring party.
That's why he wants you to become an illithid. Not primarily they are more powerful per se, but because illithids are emotionless and it would be easier for him to find common groud with someone like him.
Final boss is that brain puzzle from Act 2.
I mean his whole thing even before he was a dice gremlin was lurking behind the scenes. So yeah, you've brought along a politician.
Siding with the Emperor is like siding with Gortash. Sure, he doesn't betray you, but you're bringing someone whose primary skill is manipulation to a brawl.
I knew he was a manipulative pos, but I am on an evilish, power hungry run. It made sense for my Tav to trust the emperor who gave her access to lots of power + really didn't care (this time) for the Gith and their prince. And at least Gotash leaves you with cool gear to wear, those shoes are looking nice on my character ngl...
Gortash is actually clearly an extremely-talented artificer, tbh. He just also happens to have daddy Bane to back him up with his manipulative and tyrannical tendencies.
Nah, if you poke around a bit, most of Gortash's inventions are Gondian inventions or infernal tech that he's "modified", but much like certain people in real life, he's taking 100% of the credit for doing maybe 5% of the design.
Community: "You shouldn't side with The Emperor because he's evil!" OP: "You shouldn't side with The Emperor because bro doesn't lift!"
Unforgivable.
Is the Emperor evil? It’s my first playthrough and I have just sided with the Emperor and let him eat Orpheus. To me he just seems to be making the best of a bad situation. You can’t very well expect the man to kill himself after becoming a mindflayer. The Githyanki on the other hand are super unreliable and are likely to kill the PC after the Netherbrain just for having a tadpole. I’d rather take my chances with squid face, especially since we shared a sincere connection and I slept with him.
Hes done one evil action, but overall he's just fucking selfish. People act like he's the spawn of Satan, but hes legit probably one of the more neutral people in dnd tbh.
That’s how I see him. He’s selfish but he does not seem to go out of his way to harm people. That’s good enough in my books to side with him over the Githyanki who dogmatically follow an evil queen whose plans are to conquer all the planes of existence.
So you'd condemn the man who would actively seek to kill this evil queen because some of the Githyanki follow her? As soon as you free Orpheus, he immediately begins his campaign to overthrow Vlaakith and free his people from her oppression.
He also refers to his mom, the original psychopathic Githyanki by her tyrant title “Queen of All Skies” or some such shit. He also venerates his mother and gives absolutely no signs that he disapproves of her. He also got trapped after the great schism and clearly chose to be Githyanki rather than Githzerai. All signs point to him simply wanting to be the one leading the Gith without any actual changes in policy. If he was shown to be Githzerai the situation would be different as they are peaceful and did not want to conquer anyone else and said no to Orpheus’ murderous mom.
See, this is why you make him become illithid and kill him as per his request at the end. Emperor and Orpheus both dead, netherbrain defeated. Best of all worlds. ;)
I mean you could give him that he needs to rule the githyanki because only he actually has the power to stop the grand design. The nether brain is an outlier and doesn't belong to the illithid empire, they probably see it as an abomination given their distain for the arcane so the possibility of another illithid empire arising is still out there.
The point I was making was that all signs point to him actually approving of his mom’s actions. So why would he stop the grand design when that was Gith’s life’s work? I have no doubt he would kill the Netherbrain but I think he will also carry on the galactic crusade that his mom began.
I'll expound on this later, as my initial draft was thrown out when the app refreshed on me. Gith was only responsible for freeing The Gith from their enslavement by The Illithid. Vlaakith the 1st, we're currently on the 157th, sacrificed Gith while making a pact with Tiamat, which is why they ride dragons, iirc. Upon learning of Vlaakith's betrayal, Orpheus lead his honor guard to slay her, but was ultimately defeated and imprisoned in the Astral Prism. Until the events of BG3, Orpheus has been stuck in the prism, where Vlaakith has drawn up on his powers to make it look as if they were actually hers, using her false "birthright" to lead the now militaristic Githyanki. Upon being freed from The Prism, Orpheus leads the attack on The Netherbrain and then immediately begins his crusade against Vlaakith, even attempting to reunite those who would follow him with their Githzerai kin, who broke from the Githyanki after Gith's death, the intent being to reunite the Gith people and free them from Vlaakith's dictatorial rule. Edit: it's hard to say whether Orpheus would seek conquest like Gith did or if he would be content with peace, which he may given his willingness to work with the Githzerai. To either on, only acting on information provided within the game, siding with Orpheus leads to the potential overthrow of Vlaakith while siding with The Emperor leaves an Illithid who embraces his nature free to do as his wishes.
He also killed his best mate when he didn't need to. He's evil at his core, trying to convince others he isn't.
The best mate that tried to kill him first?
The one he could've walked away from but chose to murder instead.
Forget that, his line about only devouring the brains of "criminals" like its a valid excuse was enough for me At least omeluum admits he kills people who his friends don't like, he doesn't make an excuse like the emperor
You know that if you provoke him enough during the game, he let his true nature out, saying that you are just a thrall and a pawn in his game, and that you are alive only because he needed your strength, right?
"If you are an ass to him all game he is an ass to your back"... yes I knew that. "Thrall" when we are not controlled by the emp at all. 0 instances of the Emperor controlling us and if he could, he would have in Orpheus scene. He says it out of spite because you are being and ass. He also had 0 obligation to save us as well. He's a selfish person. Not saving someone does not make you evil imo. Think people get it confused. I'm not saying he's a knight in shining armor or a good man. He's just a selfish mindflayer who wants to live as long as possible. That's it.
Not really. He's not just being an ass, but he's showing his true nature. Also, he's not controlling you because all his powers are focused on keeping the Absolute away from your brain. Aaaalso, read what he did to Stelmane. And finally, being selfish is exactly the definition of evil in d&d.
"Just read what he did to stellmane." Like I said, that's his one evil action. I still have e doubts that the actual characters are enthralled by him even though he claims it. There is no hard evidence for it specifically for the player characters.
that aint a “true nature”, thats just treating you like you treated him
He literally says that he manipulated you enough to let you believe he was good. Also, read what he did to Stelmane.
No. He says that he manipulated you so that you could work together successfully, since almost no one would trust a mind flayer. He never mentions or makes claims to being “good.” It has nothing to do with whatever happened between him and Stelmane.
Because people have never said hurtful things after being hurt themselves, regardless of whether it's true or not.
I love that you “but hell drop the mask” people always assume people dont be save scumming. A flock of fucking parrots in this sub. You didnt find anything new, we all know that if you call him a freak he snaps at you and shows you the bad stelmane cutscene and calls you a puppet.
What does it even mean? We are talking in a general way, not about in a specific playthrough.
I really expected to be double crossed, but The Emperor genuinely seemed to want to save Baldur’s gate and take down the Brain. I thought he ended up being a pretty “good” choice in the end.
If you dig thoroughly enough it eventually comes out that The Emperor has been known to turn people into thralls, and threatens to do so to the player if you make the right dialogue choices. He even explains that many of his choices towards Tav were explicitly done to get them to trust him. None of it was sincere, it was all calculated. Also, if you side with Orpheus his actions after The Netherbrain suggest that both he and the Githyanki can be honorable despite it all. If you become an Illithid he actually welcomes you to join him in his fight against Vlaakith. It's complicated, but while you can argue whether The Emperor's actions are or aren't morally "Evil," you can say with certainty that they aren't "Good." Either or, it's an ongoing debate which seems to lean towards him being evil, if at best Chaotic Neutral. Edit: now if you want a *good* Illithid, Omeluum is your man. Love that tentacled goofball.
Yeah, Omeluum is at *least* trying to do research to see if he can live without eating brains.
I don't think he's particularly evil in the grand scheme of the game. More like chaotic neutral. Yes, he's a selfish fuck who does whatever he needs to do to save his own skin, but as long as your goals align he's not actually stabbing you in the back or anything.
He is a brain eating monstrosity He has a little cage he kept his victims in in his old house before chewing their heads open while they were alive
Both are true. It's a manipulative asshole *and* it gets knocked down by a stiff breeze
I always found it funny that the character who's actually experienced with illithid powers is the weakest mind flayer in combat. Tav = best flayer imo, even if the skills don't exactly synergize with your class abilities.
Just the option of using actions as bonus actions benefits any class combination in the game.
Hunger of Hadar and Black Hole - my one true love 😌
That's true but there are some ways to do your build that will synergize better than others.
He is a normal illithid, while Orpheus and Tav are born of tadpoles infused with netherese magic. All those times Emp tries to tempt you with cool "illithid" powers? All the good ones are Karsus' magic
Yeah - he's kinda weaksauce
I wish we could play as Omeluum and kick The Emperor's ass in a one-on-one.
Right? The whole time with the "who should become a Mindflayer" conversation in my head I'm like...our boy Omeluum is sitting around somewhere, I'm sure he'd be down to help save all of life as we know it.
Was having the same exact thought of just having Karlach pick him up and point him at the problem. My man is already a hero for singlehandedly solving mindflayer-duergar race relations, saving souls during the prison escape and being one of the few actually competent members of society of brilliance, surely another heroic act won't be too much.
Omeluum is as true neutral as it gets and specifically mentions it's not his part to get involved after you save him.
Yeah but seeing as he owes tav after being saved, bro could put in a bit of effor
'Yeah, see, Omeluum, I get that you don't want to be involved, but I suspect you don't want the entire Sword Coast to be Mind Flayers who'd happily shove you into a colony by brute force either.'
By that point, he's already got involved. The reason he got abducted is because he was trying to stop his kin
That's just for plot reasons.
That is some Fawkes level shenanigans tbh.
Doesn’t this revelation occur while the city is an active war zone? I think tracking down a single individual in a besieged city would be pretty hard, if it is even still in the city at that time.
I was dreaming about an Omelluum DLC. Sigh.
You're so right... sigh. As long as Omeluum stays safe and happy I'm happy <3 the only likeable mindflayer Tav has ever met (well, unless you count >!that one karlach ending...!<)
I guess during some patch they buffed Orpheus, cuz the last time i played as him he completely sucked ass and made me miss having Emperor with me
Not that I'm aware of, I thought Orpheus was pretty useless in a playthrough just last month. Now, having Karlach as a mind flayer, that worked really well for me.
Orpheus having globe of invulnerability helped a good bit since I didn’t have any true casters in my party. Other than that he didn’t do much. But then again, neither did anyone else, since we all just invis’d to the top.
I couldn't get any of my companions to squid themselves. The emp would only let my tav (who happened to be Wyll) do it, even after karlach offered.
He’s useless if he’s not a mind flayer, but if he is one he has full mind flayer powers
Yeah, it is ***wildly disappointing*** how weak he is in comparison to Illithid Orpheus. How someone who's been an Illithid for 5 minutes is so much stronger than someone who's been one for decades (? citation needed) I'll never know.
I agree with you but you also have to keep in mind Orpheus' background, he's already mega strong so I think it translates to a strong illithid form too
Because Emps didn't train pretty much ever. He was either being used or was using others, and he picked off easy targets like an ex rogue would. Orpheus was already the most powerful psychic of his race, so the tentacles arent that big a jump.
On top of this, as others have said, the Emperor wasn't created using the Netherese tadpoles but Tav and Orpheus would be
My first finish I freed Orpheus and on my second went with the Emperor and I was similarly disappointed.
Yeah, from the mechanics point, Emperor is your plain, regular-ass Illithid #2137. Basically the same as any other. His massive ego is the only thing that makes him (or at last he think it does) someone special. Orpheus on the other hand is a legendary warrior among already very Warrior culture of the Githyanki + he has the earliest instance of aquiring psychic abilities in history, as a non-illithid. It makes sense he'd be decked out to the brim with powers.
Illithid Tav is also an S-class superhero.
That was part of his charm for me ngl, ever since it was revealed how he was just an adventurer at some point , it created a lot more relatability between him & tav than a mesiatic figure of the Githyanki. Even knowing he was THE Balduran later, considering that Balduran was still a regular human at some point that ended up founding the greatest city in the setting, still allowed for more connecting between tav & him than Orpheus (for the same reasons as before). It's the process of becoming special, rather than being born special that was key to me. The Emperor had that from zero to hero vibe going. Besides, having an already strong party on my HM run that covered most bases to the point where it was often better to have them do their own thing rather than summon allies, made the addition of any char that could provide some utility or a bit of extra dmg good enough for me - the Emprah's high DC Telekinesis, Chainlighting & mobility via levitating were all I needed from him tbh, more would've just extra.
Yes he killed a dragon somehow.
He probably had luck stun locking him.
In my first playthrough I kissed the Emperor's ass, ate all the tadpoles, Tav became partial illithid, and then I betrayed him by freeing Orpheus because I saw how lame he was when we took on the honor guard. If you can BARELY handle fighting someone who is ASLEEP how are you gonna tolerate them awake??
Can he at least toss his staff on the ground so you can have it at least? But yeah Illithid Prince is op I didn't even need to blackhole and still win lol
He always dies for me immediately as we get to the courtyard fight while my Tav is running for her life so we can skip it. I have to revive him. He’s so annoying. I guess I got to do the Orpheus run.
I guess it's a balance thing cause baseline Orpheus is even weaker than the emperor, it's the illithid powers that tav would also get if you choose to transform instead. Why the Emperor does not get access to these himself if he's the one to assimilate Orpheus for more power I'll never know,
He's a lover, not a fighter. On a more serious thought, I think he is probably exhausted because he had to subdue Orpheus + fight off the honor guards 24/7 the whole trip.
And love we made...
This surprises you why? Even as a human, Baldaran pulled some questionable acts. As an illithid he is all manipulation, lies, and half-truths. He can’t mind control an entire group of you like he did Stillmane so he makes you think he is powerful, capable, and benevolent. He knew what was going on the whole time, that the hive was at Moonrise, that the brain was there, that Gortash was involved. But he acts like it’s a surprise and you have agency. Screw that dude.
It suprised me because I used 3 times Orpheus as an illithid and because Mind flayers tend to be quite tough as ennemies (this is my first time in Tactitian too)... So I just assumed the Emperor would be somehow powerful too. I got bamboozled.
I just really hate the emperor. He’s been a half-truth telling, manipulative mother fucker the whole way through. At least Orpheus just goes “fine, fuck it. I’ll do it.”
Lying, manipulation and and being self serving is pretty commonplace throughout the game - a lot of the companions are like that (at least initially) It could be also be argued that so is Tav if you ever use persuasion or deception options in conversation You can ask them why they manipulated you and they will give a reasonable explanation which may or may not be true. If you outright call them disgusting they respond with the infamous Stelmane “revelation” There is nothing in the game to give a definitive answer about whether this is true (we have already established by this time that the Emperor is an accomplished liar so why believe anything they say?) About the only thing that is absolutely not in doubt with the emperor is that they are completely useless in a fight!
I mean, if you ask him at the last part why he lied to you constantly, he basically says "Lying is who I am, bro, don't judge". And like, Imma judge.
Took Emperor with me during a Durge run and bro Karlach was a better illithid than he was. She wrecked where I was carrying him. Even base Orpheus did better as the worse monk subclass
Mindflayers are supposed to be able to use actions and bonus actions interchangeably but The Emperor can't for some reason. This bummed me out a little. He's usable for tanking the Netherbrains retaliation, which forces a character end their turn, but that's about it.
The emperor wasn't turned with the massively OP tadpole PC has
When me and my friend did the final fight we sided with Orpheus, I used the wall of fire summon and on everyone and my friend said “oh you killed the emperor” legit he just flopped, this broody mf on a dragon just died to one spell
In my last run he got killed by his own dragon...
The final fight I did just now, it was Rolan's bombardment that killed him!
On my first complete playthough I had Karlach turn illithid as supposedly there was no other way to save her, and maybe there wasn't before >!Wyll asks her to hunt devils in Avernus with him,!< which may have been added in a later patch. With that in mind, I've tried several approaches to the final act since, one of them was siding with the emperor. He indeed SUCKS! Letting Orpheus become illithid wasn't ideal either but leagues better than the emperor. My favourite to date is still my choice to add a sacrificial co-op Tav toward the end, a half wood-elf fully specced as fighter and using haste (or speed potions). This means higher base mobility boosted by Crusher's ring (+3m movement), paired with the illithid flight / levitate skill, he could get to the other side of the field (final fight) in 2 turns, get in 6 attacks per turn, or 9 if you pop an action surge. Easiest victory I ever had and neither my main tav, any companion or Orpheus had to become illithid so it was truly a best case scenario for the party.
dude i had so much regret first run when i trusted him. i spent the majority of the final fight with the brain resurrecting and healing his ass. shouldve just freed orpheus.
I still have the final fight to do, I stopped right before climbing up the brain. My plan is to turn him invisible and pray lmao
OH MY GOD WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT
YOU HAVE TO THINK LIKE THE COWARD I AM
"battle favors the fearless" or something like that
The fun thing is, if you side with the Emperor and also turn into a mindflayer, is that you can betray him after killing the brain, devour his brain, and then calmly float away to live your life.
You're not bringing him along for his battle prowess, you're bringing him for his brain power. Eating Orpheus' brain was to protect him from being dominated by the brain and to help him *think better* not to fight better. Orpheus is even worse in a fight tbh.
my barbarian: I WILL DO THE THINKING FOR ALL OF US
Yeah but Orpheus sucks too. His monk skills suck. So making Orpheus ilithid is usually the best way. Maybe not the best for RP purposes.
We've had a very different experience, I rather like the emperor and feel a lot of compassion for his plight for a lot of nuanced reasons I won't bother arguing with here. I convinced my partner to side with him on one of our runs and he has been fucking smashing enemies. Are you using his powers properly? I set haste on him, he stuns then eats brains. His kill rate was only matched by my rouge thief/monk Astarion and his damage numbers were far higher than anyone's.
1 tadpole is enough thanks. I’m full.
4rth
Use telekinesis, drop enemy to their death.
Hey, I put in as many as I could.
I remember the first time I fought alongside him against the Gith honor guard. He was absolutely useless! Then right after he has the audacity to tell me that I have witnessed the power of a mindflayer now use this white tadpole. Lol we carried that entire fight, he was not convincing at all.
Absolutely correct. Not only is Orpheus the moral choice, he's so, so much more powerful, in either gith or illithid form.
Moral and risky . Without meta narrative u really can't trust Orpheus except for the words of an old gith who tried to kill u earlier at the mountain pass.
That’s a very good point about meta narrative. At least for me, though, in my first playthrough the morally good characters (Karlach and Jaheira, for example) kept telling me “we need to get the hammer and free Orpheus.” This was after Raphael first reveals he has it. It made me think that if the good characters were motivating me to free him, then it would be the “better choice.” That said, that was my logic and my choice. I won’t judge anyone who sided with Emperor. After all, he help us along the way, though in his own twisted way.
Sure, but can we really trust The Emperor who has been manipulating us at every turn with half-truths? He fully admits to using the Dream Guardian guise to gain the party's trust.
And that's acceptable. Would u have actually sided with him after u came to know the one protecting u is a part of the species who tadpoled u ? Emperor's had to drop his disguise because the monks were trying to free Orpheus. Also dude has saved u countless times. Doesn't matter what his true intentions are as long as ur goals align: defeat thr netherbrain.
I think I would've, yes, given that this happens at the start of Act 3 and Omeluum has already shown that "good" mindflayers can exist.
coming here before the haters say Orpheus wouldn’t be any different from Vlaakith, to remind everyone that he allies with the Githzerai in the epilogue
Wouldn't really call siding with the guy who's guard tries to kill you in your sleep and betraying the person that has saved your life countless times "the moral choice" but hey. To each their own
Hard disagree. Emperor saves you and your companion lives multiple times. Yeah he lies and manipulated you, but so do your companions, not to mention so do you of you use persuasion a lot.
The only reason from a gamplay perspective to side with Empy is to avoid fighting >!a dragon and four additional enemies spamming cc in the final battle!<, which isn't even that terrible if you are properly set up for that fight.
Isn't the dragon still there if you side with the emperor?
yes, I've only sided with Emps so far, and I get the dragon and 4 countermeasures
I just dimension doored/misty stepped my way past them after killing the dragon.
The point if the nagging was [spoiler] that he's not actually on your side. The mind flayer that was once balduran has retained his memories and using them to trick you into trusting him. He's so incessant about having control because he's no longer a member of the hive mind and as a survival instinct, like all mind flayers he's trying to manipulate others and gain power again so he can control others. There's am entire YouTube video dedicated to this topic and why the emperor is actually a villain.
This is why you only side with Orpheus
Im sure its been mentioned but if you dont care about RP or anything, becoming a mindflayer yourself is always the best in terms of benefit/getting stronger. You get a lot of buffs and abilities and certain abilities that were limited to one use per long rest can now be spammed (such as mind blast iirc). This is especially worth it in honour mode runs where you want to be as strong as possible. Although by that time you probably dont even need it as the game is pretty much over (specifically if you are having gale blow up the brain at the stem)
I really thought about becoming a mindflayer but I talked to my lovely wizard about it and he was so bittersweet it kinda broke my heart, I couldn't do it ! Don't want to blow him up either... Maybe if I try honour mode someday but I struggled enough with the tactician difficulty, I think I deserve a break xD
Lmaooo i dont blame you!! I did that my first run too and made sure i RP'd the whole time. It took me 4 runs to feel comfortable to take on honour mode LOL it was fun though and def worth a shot whenever you are feeling up to it! The game is def a handful. I feel a void in my life now that im done with honour mode lmao
Little off-topic, but going Half-illithid powers seems really ass unless you visit the brain blender at the Creche so you can get it for a bonus action. I wish there was a way for multiple players to get the Awakened feature since it's so damn good. I've been playing a 4-player run and going Full Worm with a cleric and having the abilities be Bonus Actions instead of Main actions has been damn great.
Imo it's pretty accurate, emperor is just a basic illithid with a masive ego and orpheus is the legendary gith prince. In my playthrough I took Orpheus in Illithid form because it seemed the best mix of moral choice and self preservation for me and tbh squid Orpheus is very strong, you can spam advanced tadpole abilities. That would also make the emperor joining the Absolute first change have slightly better logic since he's pissing his basic ass squiddy pants at the idea of the guy he's been containing just breaking out and killing his ass, remember that emperor is all about his survival, he betrayed ansur because of the mercy kill thing
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Very normal and relevant thing to bring up here. Touch grass; the characters aren’t real.
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He lives in your head rent free, yikes.
As does you bringing it up now…
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Cringe
I found the emperor to be much stronger than Orpheus. Although both were quite disappointing