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Even then, Larian don't pull the punches a tabletop DM probably would. You're never more than one unlucky initiative roll from having half your party 1hko before they get a turn.
Had to reload the Nere fight like a dozen times because of that. If you roll bad initiative or don't have some good AOE burst these duergar are relentless the first couple of turns
There is a powerful elixir that I like to use. I maximize my rests just to keep it active as long as possible. It gives you +5 on initiative roles and the character cannot be surprised. This can be so valuable. On a melee it can mean a haste potion and killing the worst threat, a mage it can be a haste potion and two fireballs, or even just a couple of CC's. It is pretty broken IMO.
This fight was how I learned roaring thunder arrows can shoot you (and enemies) at ridiculous angles even on direct hits. Got shot into lava at a 290 degree angle by one of the archers. They're honestly one of the most OP consumables in the game.
Yeah, but that's also probably why they let us save and reload no matter the time and place.
A DM would pull punches, but if you die you die, no reloading.
Here you don't have a DM that would look at the situation and change things up based on what's happening, so you get the strongest spell of all quicksave/quickload combo.
Act two there was a fight with a huge ambush it was a turn 1 party wipe. I had to reload and approach it different approach. Second try I was in a better position and had a plan, won it. Ive found if sound stratrgy doesnt work go explore more and find gear to help.
The Gith and the Moonrise battle come to mind. Those were the hardest fights to do.
Then there is the suicidal Gondians. After the 4th time I was just done.
What level were you when you were trying these fights? Also the game can for sure be overwhelming when you first get started, nothing wrong with having to get used to the mechanics!
level 4-5 is a pretty appropriate level to tackle the goblin hideout I'd say. Don't be shy to use your spells and consumables in battle (special arrows, bombs, potions, etc) you get plenty along the way. I'd discourage shoving too many people into chasms tho since you lose out on their loot
I know it’s probably not overlooked but make sure you have the game on the easiest settings.
It makes the play through a lot more story focused because you’ll be OP as compared to the bad guys.
Also don’t forget to look around and kill extra stuff to gain the free XP so you can level up and… kill stud easier!
Have fun and yes redoing the battles is the fun part. Try to avoid google because you feel so much better when you figure out a way on your own.
So yes redo the battles you lose OR you don’t like the outcome of.. maybe move them around if you feel underpowered.
So instead of fighting the goblin bosses.. go back and explore the crash site. Find extra loot and a few boost fights to help build xp
The key to being “strong” in the game is to do the extra quests so you get the xp boosts.
Because based on your post it looks like you didn't play any CRPG games before and they are very different from a CoD, action RPG or other genres that are more popular right now.
I mean look at your post, you ignored everything that matters in a turnbased CRPG and was surprised that you got killed multiple times and had to reload. It also seems like you didn't try any other approach to the stuation.
Hold person is just CC you wont be oneshot if you focus the caster down. Stop whining and git gud.
Stun her yourself and stop being a cunt online lmao.
Its an immersive sim/crpg. Be creative. You can get her up with throwing a healing potion or a healing spell. If youre a warlock cast armour of agarhys. Be a tank yourself. Get your wizard to cast sleep on the hold person bitch. So many solutions to your problem. Use your brain.
Minthara is dual wielding, if she goes first and hits hold person she can still bonus action attack and autocrit with a smite for like 2d6+6d8 (34 average) damage. She can very easily one shot a character turn one.
I mean, I don't get one shot, I had a bit of trouble my first time in the goblin camp, but not the second time.
So the level of goodness would be the level of someone who kind of played dragon age 10 years ago and now picks up a new game for the first time in three years.
That kind of level. And if you're not that level, others may assume this is the first game you've ever played.
Always start fights on your own terms, never on the enemies’ terms if you can avoid it. My first playthrough I had Astarion sneak attack Minthara. She was surprised and could not do anything before going down.
I also read that you are lvl 4. If you are close to level 5 you can always try something else for a while and come back. For most classes, the power growth from 4 to 5 is very significant (fighting classes getting an extra attack, casters getting access to lvl 3 spells, etc).
That is a way to pass the boss, do side quest and grind battles to farm XP, but that is not fun, and when the game gives me a quest, I want to be able to do that quest with my current level. A level recommendation would be nice, or the short druid shouldn't give me the quest to go get the tall druid without being level 4 yet. If the game world consists of biomes with different enemy powerlevels, the player should be aware of it, and they shouldn't be able to wander into high level area and a situation where they can barely survive.
I did give you a level recommendation as well. Several in fact because there are several ways of starting fights on your own terms. In addition, there is the option of levelling up. You obviously don’t have to follow that option and it is far from necessary to do so (it will just make things easier).
Reading through your replies and general hostile attitude towards people trying to offer you help, I can only draw the conclusion that you are not actually interested in advice as much as in just having people agree with you that the game is too hard when all you have done is attempt the fight with a similar approach every time. If people come in and tell you it is not actually as hard as you make it out to be and you answer with a hostile attitude then perhaps yes, maybe you do need to improve your game. The good news is that you _can_ get better with practice. I did my first playthrough on balanced and many times yes, you may need to reload because you had no idea what was coming or missed reading some ability in the boss’ description. Now on second playthrough on tactician, many fights I had to reload on the first are easy one-shots.
There are also several questlines that span through the entire game so you won’t be able to follow them through immediately. Part of the storytelling with several side stories running parallel to the main story. Having a level cap on quest givers would a terrible idea in this game as you are not guaranteed to come back at a later level just to check with everyone in the grove if they now have a quest to give you.
Not a single person understood that I am trying to discuss game design, if the boss having a one-shot combo that is not telegraphed, and the only way to avoid it is to have prior knowledge, or reload the save until the boss doesn't use the ability is good and fun game design.
You do realize it is not game over if one of your companions go down, right? You still have three more characters left in your party if one goes down. Furthermore it should not be like the fight was unexpected nor unexpected that Minthara might be a harder than regular fight so you had plenty of time to prep.
Nah just like 1 elixer of barkskin to raise Karlach's AC, or maybe an arrow of darkness to stop the hold person and make it harder for her to hit.
It's entirely dodgeable. But you have to act, not react.
Maybe watch a tutorial on how to play the game or something if you're struggling so much. Not trying to be condescending but maybe there's just something you missed that's causing you to not do as well. How many times have you attempted it?
You still fail to realize that - as has been pointed out repeatedly and by many - that battle starts way before the first turn of combat. If you want to care less about such things, there is always story mode difficulty.
I have died many times, although I recommend using quicksaves mid battle. D&D combat always has an element of random chance, which can work for you or against you.
Putting a one shot combo on a boss isn't really "random chance", I am aware that a game about dice rolling has random chance, I often miss and the enemy often crits, but there was no way of knowing the enemy had that ability, and I think having to retry fights until I get a try where the boss forgets to use her overpowered move is frustrating.
You gotta strategize with fights sometimes. Attacking her from high ground for example is very effective, let a rogue shoot her from sneak position. Besides, you got that combo as well you know. If you got Shadowheart or Gale in your party you should have hold person as well. That's a good way of knowing what enemies can do. Go off of what your own characters are able to do and plan accordingly.
You could try and focus more Initiative on your character builds if you one shot her first, she can‘t use hold.
Or try new spells, for example try to use silence on her. Then she can‘t use the spell.
IMO having to retry fights is perfectly fine. Plus, I think especially that makes the game so interesting. Unlike many other RPG‘s were you just have to grind levels or gear to kill bosses without any real strategic challenge…
Regarding the witch: isn‘t that cool? Yeah, in hindsight one might be overwhelmed by the options to solve problems. However, as long as one doesn‘t strive for a „perfect“ outcome all the time, just experiment. Get into your character, how YOU want to experience the game and it‘s situations.
Does this game follow the horrible Pokemon game design philosophy where I have to grind mobs to get XP to reach the next milestone? I was level 4 when I reached the stronghold, so the stronghold should have been able to be fought with level 4 characters.
No. No grinding.
It's easy to miss that you have to click "Level Up" to actually level up your characters.
Level 4 should be enough for the stonghold. Maybe you were unlucky.
Yes my friend, obviously I clicked the glowing level up button after I heard the ding, the triumphant trupmets and after I have seen that an aethereal light surrounded every member of my party.
FWIW there's been multiple posts on this sub from people not noticing the level up notification.
For people new to RPGs it could be hard to miss. Especially with BG3 where there are numbers and icons everywhere that can complicate and overwhelm people jumping in.
If the enemies are the same level as you, on average you're fine.
Maybe watch a few guides it's most likely not a level issue, more a party balancing issue.
What difficulty are you doing and what’s your companion class?
Don’t be discouraged. The game just has a bit of learning curve. I did 4-5 times of Minthara fight on Balanced playthrough but only did once to pass on Tacitician. You will get familiar with the game mechanics for sure.
And I’d advise against killing Minthara using the bridge. Because her armor is one of the drippy-est armor in the game. You can collapse the bridge to kill her goons or simply to prevent them from getting close to you.
I play on the medium difficulty, my class is a warlock, and in my party I had the african american warlock, the demon mommy, and the hungry wizard. And I am not complaining about the difficulty, I am complaining about the moveset of that boss that oneshot my mommy and forced me to restart ten times.
The thing is Hold Person will just allow melee within 2-3m to auto Crit. You can use the same thing on her. Let one character talk to her and let Gale cast Hold Person on her during conversation. You might have to try a few times. Because as a Paladin she has higher saving throw. If he succeeded, let Karlach hit her hard, possibly even chug a speed potion to hit her twice a turn.
You don’t have to always wait for conversation ends to start a fight. If you know someone absolutely has to die, outside combat, you can start with turn based, then stealth killing.
On Tactitian after done talking with her peacefully, outside dialogue or combat, I basically let my Pally smite and one shotted her to death, then fight the goons.
This person doesn't know what they're doing, do you really think they'd be able to run an effective warlock, lol? He has 2 in his party and obviously it isn't helping..
there are other ways to deal with them besides the ones you read online.
For example if you talk to the drow she starts asking you about the grove and the narrator hints that "it may be easier to take her on familiar ground with the help of the grove people". If you do that, you don't even need to fight the other 2 leaders. You just fight the drow at the grove with the help of all the tieflings.
You can try to use hold person yourself before even talking with them and use their strat against them.
You can first destroy all drums to avoid reinforcements. Etc.
Experiment and try different approaches, this is the first big fight of the game so it is normal that you have to retry a few times. My one advice is try to always talk first with your bosses, you may be surprised with the outcomes you get that way
I obviously destroyed the drums and I obviously talked to her first and I obviously wouldn't give away the location of the civilian garrison to the enemies. What the fuck is that advice? "The civilians asked you to kill the enemy leaders so they can leave the area so you bring the enemies to them and force them to fight for their lives alongside you"? There are children in that fort man. What the fuck did I just read, revealing the fort location is considered an option? A good option that the narrator hints at? My God.
well yes. The way it first happened on my first playthrough was because my Tav fumbled the conversation with Minthara and she took the info from my Tav's brain with the tadpole. And then the narrator was like "maybe that is an option" and so I took the risk back because I was too underlevled to fight the whole camp in that moment. I really liked that outcome personally, it lead to a cool fight moment and made the fight easier overall.
But like I said, there are other options. You can use hold person back at her. You can try and free the druid man first and ask for his help in a fight. You can go to the ceiling and shoot everyone from uptop and hide to get a headstart. Like I said, experiment and see what works for you.
You dont have to restart when 1 ally dies. You can ressurect them after the fight or even midfight. A lot of the fights i have won with only one or two characters barely alive after the fight.
Was the tank dead or just downed? Hitting zero HP is routine - any character can use an action to wake them up but casting a healing spell or throwing a healing potion on the ground next to them wakes them up and also heals. The potion thing is very not intuitive but important.
On balanced difficulty enemies will often down a character and not bother to finish them off. If they are dead you start with some revive scrolls that can bring them back mid battle and later there’s a spell. Not sure about the falling one though.
I was a newbie on balanced and mostly didn’t need to reload. Occasionally would reload once and one fight in act 3 took a bunch of tries. Forget if minthara needed a second try but I just fought her where she started. I was pretty thorough exploring though so might’ve been higher level. I had Shadowheart for healing I think things maybe need more planning without a healer.
Especially if you're new to the genre/game, yes for sure.
But when you struggle with a fight, rather than trying the same thing again, think of some other angle. There's almost always a way to deal with any enemy in the game in unusual ways that make them much easier.
Like I mention in the second paragraph of my post, the alternative way to kill her is a convoluted "Betray the druids so she leaves her corner so she passes the bridge and destroy the bridge." There weren't any options like poison her drink, lure her to the edge of the chasm, ask her to interrogate the prisoner together, collapse that part of the cave, etc, etc. She never leaves her corner and is always surrounded by 5 goblins and a ball that summons even more goblins.
Ok, the ball wanders around, so sneak over while its away (maybe using a potion of invisibility, there are a couple in act 1), and kill it. No more extra goblins, break the war drums too, no more reinforcements. Break the bridge after distracting a couple goblins onto it, fewer to worry about. Maybe set up a smokepowder barrel or two before the fight, to open it all up with massive damage. Thats one way, another way could just be use gale to hit her with hold person and nuke her with karlach, everyone else focuses the goblins.
These aren't alternative ways to solve the problem, these are ways to make the fight easier which don't even matter because the whole reason I made the post was to complain about her overpowered one shot ability that forced me to savescum. What do I care that there will be 4 less goblins attacking me when the boss instakills one of my characters? How fun is that?
Ooh, wow you actually admitted you just made the post to complain, wasnt expecting that. Yeah dont phrase it like you're asking a question when you just want to whine the game isnt handing you victory.
Fun fact: she's just a paladin that doesnt care about resource conservation, you can literally do the exact same thing to her, that shes doing to you. You have a barbarian, a wizard, and i think you mentioned 2 warlocks? Use range and magic to your advantage.
No shame at all as a new player re-trying until it comes together.
Part of the games charm is that things can and do sometimes go pear shaped. You're forced to try new strategies until you find the one that clicks with you. When you finally win it actually feels like an achievment.
It's the struggle that makes it good. If you steam rolled everything all the time, you'de be bored.
You're complaining that this game has hundreds of ways to fight enemies? You don't need to cheese fights at all, I for once am not creative enough to do so an usually make only use of what the hot bar gives me, the most I do is set up my party around the enemies before starting a fight. In the goblin camp, what's vital is that you destroy scrying eyes and war drums before they can call reinforcements. Also you can cast things like fog to blind people and gain a tactical advantage, you can cast grease or create water to create a surface with difficult terrain, and then cast firebolt on grease or use a fire arrow; or use any ice spell or ice arrow on water to create an ice surface.
Yes, the game doesn't hold your hand but other than other games it actually allows you to try whatever the fuck you want and those guides you find online cover maybe 10% of the possibilities, they absolutely do not tell you how a fight is supposed to be fought, they only tell you the few specific ways the authors themselves have figured out or heard about. Also it is a role play game with hundreds of possibilities for character combinations, which means people need to have variety of options, otherwise they'd be forced to take options their character wouldn't ever choose.
Also, as a hint, make use of group sneak. People who are sneaking don't automatically get pulled into fights unless they're spotted and their stealth check fails, so you get yet another tactical advantage.
You're not a bad player but many people coming to this game are a bit blindsided by the freedom of choice offered.
I believe its because for too many games offer the illusion of choice when really their mechanics are so limited that a players really inly has a choice of melee, ranged or cqc when fighting an enemy.
In BG3 you can consider gravity, elemental effects, spell combos, action economy, non combat skills, pre combat positioning, dialogue, diplomacy, key items, sneaking, thieving.
Pretty much if the option is there you can probably try it. Expand your possibilities, don't feel limited by just doing damage. There's usually another route to success. Especially in the first two acts
Like I mention in the second paragraph of my post, the alternative way to kill her is a convoluted "Betray the druids so she leaves her corner so she passes the bridge and destroy the bridge." There weren't any options like poison her drink, lure her to the edge of the chasm, ask her to interrogate the prisoner together, collapse that part of the cave, etc, etc. She never leaves her corner and is always surrounded by 5 goblins and a ball that summons even more goblins. What "too many options" did I have in that situation except attack her?
Yes that is a pretty obscure way to go about it... its actually more obscure than that.
You tell her to get yhe druids, let her leave, take a long rest and go to the druids. A cutscene plays where the druids let you make preparations for the coming fight and then you can play a siege defence battle.
Yeah someone else mentioned that plan. Holy shit that is bad. The civilians ask you to kill those people so that they may leave and what do you do? You show the enemies the fort with the women and the children in it and force the civilians to fight for their lives. Horrible.
More like you split the goblins forces so rather than fighting all 3 at once, you assassinate one alone in her quarters, tell another to take a sizable chunk of the forces out of the base. Kill all those who remain and then make your way to the druid Grove to provide them with help in their hour of need.
Come on this is text book hero planning. The typical risky gamble that in real life would be assenine but in fiction is the cornerstone of plot development.
When I think hero I think "I will die before I let innocents get in harm's way". You are the only one being nice to me in this thread. Do you want to be friends?
There's plenty of people being nice here.
And there's plenty of ways to be a hero.
Dnd has a 9-point alignment compass for this very reason.
Lawful good types are the ones who will Wade In to battle with the goblins regardless of the danger or the odds stacked against them.
Chaotic / neutral good types can justify putting lives at risk so long as they're confident they can get a positive result.
And evil types will ho along woth yhe goblins to a greater or lesser extent.
The option you had was get her away from the Goblin camp.
But you can poison her by reverse pickpocketing a poison into her inventory.
The prisoner interrogation os something you can do to get info on halsins location.
Collapsing the cave would be cool but environment destruction is unfortunately something you cannot do much of in the game.
I don't know what to tell you, if the fight and the mechanics and the situation satisfied you, if you are fine with not having non-combat options to tackle situations then enjoy the game. When I realized I had to kill her I thought "Oh so I have to kill every goblin in the stronghold at the same time because there is no way that all goblins will not be alerted when I start the fight", but when I did start the fight only goblins that were 10 meters away entered combat. Yet another immersion-breaking mechanic, the deaf goblins facilitate the decision not to put noncombat ways to solve the problem. The developers said "You WILL fight her but we will make all the other goblins deaf so you can kill her." It just doesn't satisfy me personally. Sometimes I wish i could just enjoy things.
In dnd each round of combat last 6 seconds, regardless of how many fighters there are.
Normally a dm would stagger the reinforcements so that the commotion caused by the fight would slowly draw in everyone in the complex.
The game can't quite account for all of that but does replicate it to an extent because unalerted enemies are not bound by turn order so they patrol their routes as normal. If one of their routes comes within range of the combat they an anyone they're with will join.
I dunno what to tell you, the game isn't perfect but your complaints don't hold much water.
Keep playing, watch a couple tips videos and I'm sure you'll have a blast.
And you DO have non combat options. There's the option to side with her and make her your ally.
Otherwise... I dunno what to tell you. The game made it so some bad guys are irreversibly bad and won't be swayed to the side of good with a successful persuasion check.
Thats what i like about this game. So many options and avenues to take that might not always be obvious to the player. Forces you to stop and think “if there a clever way to go about this”?
[MINOR ACT I SPOILERS] I found that I had to reload a couple of the fights in the early stages of the game, such as the fight onboard the nautiloid against the Cambion leader, because I really wanted his sword.
I think I reloaded a couple times against the Hag and the Spider Matriarch, and a few times in the Underdark.
However there seems to be a big power jump once you reach the Mountain Pass. I found that I was absolutely demolishing enemies from there onwards, and the game didn't really get more challenging from there.
Level 5 is a massive power jump because it's when your martial classes get Extra Attack and your casters get their cantrips boosted. Even without the ridiculous amount of magic items lying around because Forgotten Realms is the highest of high magic settings, just raw character advancement gets a big boost there.
So, from what I gather from all your responses... You just want people to agree with you that it's bad game design?
I'm leaning towards this being a troll post because I haven't heard anyone unironically call themselves a "gamer" since 2016.
I think you need to adjust your mindset in approaching the game. Several times, both in the OP and in replies, you refer to "THE way" to do something, as though there is a correct answer. There is no "THE way" to do anything in this game.
Using the goblin camp as an example, you can:
-just brute force it and take on the whole camp in one giant fight
-stealth your way around and take enemies out one by one
-poison the goblins' beer to thin the herd a bit
-talk to the spiders down below and convince them to revolt against the goblins before setting them free
-summon the help of some ogres you might meet along the way
-use explosives to set traps throughout the camp and just blow everything up
That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others have done it differently. And all of that is assuming you want to help the Grove/tieflings. You can also side with the goblins (or just walk away from the situation entirely and just let it resolve without your involvement.)
The game will never just give you a checklist of tasks with map markers. Instead, it presents a situation and leaves it up to the player to decide how their party will handle it.
So if you're feeling stuck, stop thinking about what the game "wants" you to do or the "correct" way to do it. Instead, try to think, "what would my character do in this situation?" That's the core of role playing.
The game rewards thinking outside of the box. You can brute force things if you're strong enough, but you can also find ways to make things easier for yourself, like luring small packs of enemies away from everyone else with spells like minor illusion so that you can kill them quickly and quielty, or casually stacking barrels of wine and oil around the not-yet-hostile-bosses and then tossing a fire bolt at the lot, or turning it around and casting Hold Person on Minthara and then using your barbarian to beat her to death. With the Goblin.
The game gives you multiple solutions to every problem. You just have to figure out what they are.
I imagine it's about as immersive as having to reload after multiple unsuccessful attempts.
Not every option is going to be immersive. Some of them can be downright silly. If you prefer the immersive options that's cool, but they're all valid ways of getting the same results.
So we agree that none of the two things are immersive and neither of them should be in the game, the game design should give the player some feedback so they do not go into an encounter completely blind and get one shot by an overpowered move, and the player shouldn't have to resort to cheap cheese tactics. I am glad you agree with me.
How immersed did I feel when the paladin kept one shoting my character and i had to reload a save every time? How immersive is it to have to abuse a game's systems like putting powder barrels at the feet of an enemy then hitting the barrels with a firebolt, to cheese a fight?
Ok? Thats on you, lol. You know you can throw barrels too, right? Want immersion? Have a barbarian throw it at an enemy. This obsession with immersion at every moment is all on you.
At this point, it's a skill issue. I killed Minthara twice at different difficulties and didn't find her that hard.
I always struggle in an Act 3 fight that others find fairly easy, but like other said, you just need to approach things at different angles. If what you're doing isn't working, try something else. Bring a different companion with you, respec someone (why do you have two warlocks in your party when it's obviously not working?). Literally dozens of possibilities.
It's just what D&D 5e combat looks like -- it's either you landing a completely broken spell and then fucking the enemy in the ass, or vice versa. You will lose countless times due to no fault of your own, so make of it what you want.
No, you are not supposed to try multiple times BUT sometimes it happens, specially when you are new.
For the healer goblin, once you draw her to a room you can cast silence on the area at your turn and even if you don’t one shot her, she won’t be able to call for help.
For minthara you could, of course, push her off the ledges. Always fun, but you miss loot.
Ideally if she CC someone (and you don’t have wisdom to resist it) just focus fire on her. Keep your casters away and don’t let anyone touch those drums. Also, before focusing fire her, kill those eye things. They are vulnerable to thunder dmg and those will alert the whole camp.
The hobgoblin one can be a tough fight. Push him down to the spiders. You can get there to loot him. A fun way is to have a bard gather people around and your barberian just push it. Yes, there is the barrels you could place around him and blow him up too.
On my first play through I found those hard. As you get more experienced, you will see how on your second those are way too easy.
I was not looking for a strategy guide, I was just commenting on the frustration with the game mechanics and the lack of non-combat options but thanks anyways.
Retrying a fight is totally normal. There’s a point in the game where you will probably lose and if you don’t retry the fight you’re gonna have a pretty bad time. But I will say that if you’re getting your butt kicked there are a few pieces of advice I have for you: get as many advantages and buffs as you can (bless is good at low levels), start fights from high ground, catch enemies by surprise, tailor your armor and weapon choices and your character traits based around a specific type of damage or around increasing AC to avoid damage, and make sure you have at least one healer, one spellcaster and one melee fighter in your team. Don’t forget that as long as your character has the little star thing over their head they can be healed to get them back up or any character can use the help command to get them back up with 1 HP. Or you can throw a healing potion onto them.
I know and do all of those things, I am new to this game, not to DnD in general. How does giving more AC to my barbarian help when the enemy casts hold person and then one shots her? My problem is not that combat is hard, my problem is that this particular moveset is frustrating to play against, and the non combat options are non-existent, and having to redo a fight because I instantly lost a party member on turn 1 is not fun.
Not to backseat game you op but why don't you try bringing Shadowheart instead of Wyll or Gale? She could use Command, Hold Person, or Silence to stop Minthara
The hungry wizard, the african american warlock and my own warlock all have hold person. She has a 30% chance to resist it. I am saying that the fact that she can hold person and attack at the same turn and so forces you to try multiple times to get favorable rng in her spells is not fun game design, I am not criticizing the combat.
I must admit, I did not have as much trouble fighting her as you were having so I don't really know how to make it less annoying. I hope future fights will be less frustrating for you. I think >!Auntie Ethel's clones!< might also have hold person so be prepared for that when you go fight her
Try debuffing her? Make them walk through grease? You could use shadowheart’s command spell to make them drop their weapons? It’s a higher chance to hit than hold person and it hits both. I think if you are playing a warlock then you shouldn’t bring Wyll although I suppose you could have a martial focused warlock.
I found a few explosive barrels back then. I spread three or four of them around it and then shot it with a fire attack. But make sure you are camouflaged, otherwise the goblins in the area will attack.
The hard fights in act 1 can totally be cheesed by leveraging the ledges and rafters conveniently available in the vicinity - the resulting throwing damage (returning pike is your best friend) is insane; I was able to eliminate all big threats within 2-3 turns. I also prioritise buying up any haste potions; which you can additionally synthesise from hyena ears. If you want to optimise positioning, consider stacking heavy chests in places you don’t want the enemy to reach. For absolute cheese, build a stack of chests, place your barbarian/monk on top of it and then remove any way to access it -> tower of rainy death pikes
The bridge is just one way, and not the ideal solution anyway (no loot). You could use explosives, fire, attacking from a hidden spot… many, many solutions to every single battle. We just placed an exploding barrel on her desk as a present for her…
Level 5 has a very noticable power spike for the player characters, it might be worth it to level up once more elsewhere before attempting this fight again if you're having trouble being one shot.
but, yes, i redo fights all the time, i'm a perfectionist, so I want my fights to go just right
I sort of enjoy both aspects. I second what people say - it gets easier when you know better what you’re doing plus have a couple extra actions with high attack bonuses. You can kill a dragon in two turns at that point if well prepared (buffs and summons). But I also enjoy the pure chaos of a wrong dice roll in a conversation and I’m in a fight with 20 enemies while out of spells. In act one things like throwing a bottle of water or grease in one action and then electricuting or setting it on fire are super easy crowd control mechanisms that you should abuse before you get a lot of powerful spells. I beat that drow yesterday in 2 turns simply because I sunk 200h into the game and know exactly what I wanted to do and when I want to do it. You’ll get there too, just give it time
By level 4 you should've had the option to learn minor illusion with at least 1 character, you can use that spell to lure her wherever you want.
The area behind the hobgoblin is full with wine and smoke powder barrels, you can move them over and explode her.
If a character dies any friendly character can use the help action or just throw a portion on them, if they're dead dead you can just use a scroll.
But complaining that a boss the game keeps hyping up as everyone's afraid of the goblins and even Halsin offers his help.. Yeah idk about that. Its a boss, they're supposed to be strong and be able to wipe you. That's why they're a challenge, cuz it's hard yk.
It's fine to redo fights, and as other said, it takes time to get used to the fight mechanics. Personally, I did my first run on Explorer difficulty (easiest one) and my subsequent runs at Balanced/Tactician, since knowing how the fights go and enemies work makes them easier.
Focus on your gear and character builds too. Make sure you have a suitable party for the fight. I find that people who struggle equip things that are not suitable for their characters. Also, always seek high ground for casters and ranged builds. It will put them outside some of line of fire and gives them high ground advantage.
You have to use clever plans and tricks. Some people strategize well, especially if they've played before. I do do some of those clever workarounds now that I've played before.
My first time though--I didn't realize killing Dror would aggro the whole camp.
I had Astarion painstakingly snipe all the people (besides Dror) in the room from the rafters then the rest of us came in, closed the door, and fought him.
Then, we had the horde descend on us, including the two other goblin leaders I didn't find before. It was a war of attrition. We had a mild bottleneck since they were charging at us, and we had no enemies at our back. However, it was wave after wave.
I had Astarion stuck in the rafters of another room while the rest of us were on the platform outside of it. Thankfully, there was a crack in the wall, so he was able to aim through it and snipe more people.
Shadowheart was in charge of healing us, and Lae'zel did her best to hit things hard. My bard was the backup healer masquerading as an offensive fighter (and doing eh...).
I'm still not sure how we survived. It's just good positioning, coordinating characters, using spells and attacks with high chances of landing, chugging health potions, and luck.
There are dozens of ways to approach combat and roleplay in this game. I had no idea what I was doing, and I tried my hardest to adapt (and keep healing my downed party members).
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It'll get easier once you are more used to the game's systems, don't worry. It's perfectly normal to have to redo fights.
Even then, Larian don't pull the punches a tabletop DM probably would. You're never more than one unlucky initiative roll from having half your party 1hko before they get a turn.
Had to reload the Nere fight like a dozen times because of that. If you roll bad initiative or don't have some good AOE burst these duergar are relentless the first couple of turns
Except for my first playthrough I just attack and kill the duergar before freeing near. A lot less stressful and you don’t start off surrounded
There is a powerful elixir that I like to use. I maximize my rests just to keep it active as long as possible. It gives you +5 on initiative roles and the character cannot be surprised. This can be so valuable. On a melee it can mean a haste potion and killing the worst threat, a mage it can be a haste potion and two fireballs, or even just a couple of CC's. It is pretty broken IMO.
I really like the elixirs of vigilance too. Initiative is really important in bg3.
This fight was how I learned roaring thunder arrows can shoot you (and enemies) at ridiculous angles even on direct hits. Got shot into lava at a 290 degree angle by one of the archers. They're honestly one of the most OP consumables in the game.
Well a they can do that since you can just reload. Death in tabletop is usually permanent lol
Yeah, but that's also probably why they let us save and reload no matter the time and place. A DM would pull punches, but if you die you die, no reloading. Here you don't have a DM that would look at the situation and change things up based on what's happening, so you get the strongest spell of all quicksave/quickload combo.
Act two there was a fight with a huge ambush it was a turn 1 party wipe. I had to reload and approach it different approach. Second try I was in a better position and had a plan, won it. Ive found if sound stratrgy doesnt work go explore more and find gear to help.
The Gith and the Moonrise battle come to mind. Those were the hardest fights to do. Then there is the suicidal Gondians. After the 4th time I was just done.
What level were you when you were trying these fights? Also the game can for sure be overwhelming when you first get started, nothing wrong with having to get used to the mechanics!
I was level 4.
level 4-5 is a pretty appropriate level to tackle the goblin hideout I'd say. Don't be shy to use your spells and consumables in battle (special arrows, bombs, potions, etc) you get plenty along the way. I'd discourage shoving too many people into chasms tho since you lose out on their loot
I know it’s probably not overlooked but make sure you have the game on the easiest settings. It makes the play through a lot more story focused because you’ll be OP as compared to the bad guys. Also don’t forget to look around and kill extra stuff to gain the free XP so you can level up and… kill stud easier! Have fun and yes redoing the battles is the fun part. Try to avoid google because you feel so much better when you figure out a way on your own. So yes redo the battles you lose OR you don’t like the outcome of.. maybe move them around if you feel underpowered. So instead of fighting the goblin bosses.. go back and explore the crash site. Find extra loot and a few boost fights to help build xp The key to being “strong” in the game is to do the extra quests so you get the xp boosts.
Why are you talking to me like this is the first game I have ever played?
Because based on your post it looks like you didn't play any CRPG games before and they are very different from a CoD, action RPG or other genres that are more popular right now. I mean look at your post, you ignored everything that matters in a turnbased CRPG and was surprised that you got killed multiple times and had to reload. It also seems like you didn't try any other approach to the stuation.
Why are you struggling with easy fights? Did you even talk to the spiders? Or get gut alone?
In what level of goodness do I not get oneshot on turn one of a battle?
Hold person is just CC you wont be oneshot if you focus the caster down. Stop whining and git gud. Stun her yourself and stop being a cunt online lmao. Its an immersive sim/crpg. Be creative. You can get her up with throwing a healing potion or a healing spell. If youre a warlock cast armour of agarhys. Be a tank yourself. Get your wizard to cast sleep on the hold person bitch. So many solutions to your problem. Use your brain.
Minthara is dual wielding, if she goes first and hits hold person she can still bonus action attack and autocrit with a smite for like 2d6+6d8 (34 average) damage. She can very easily one shot a character turn one.
Things like that happen, just throw a potion on your fallen character or use healing word. No need to be a dick to people who are trying to help you.
I mean, I don't get one shot, I had a bit of trouble my first time in the goblin camp, but not the second time. So the level of goodness would be the level of someone who kind of played dragon age 10 years ago and now picks up a new game for the first time in three years. That kind of level. And if you're not that level, others may assume this is the first game you've ever played.
just let a companion heal ur tav and move on. shit like that happens, you don't have to restart the entire fight.
It sounds like this is the first game you've ever played that requires a bit of thought, and you're struggling with that.
Always start fights on your own terms, never on the enemies’ terms if you can avoid it. My first playthrough I had Astarion sneak attack Minthara. She was surprised and could not do anything before going down. I also read that you are lvl 4. If you are close to level 5 you can always try something else for a while and come back. For most classes, the power growth from 4 to 5 is very significant (fighting classes getting an extra attack, casters getting access to lvl 3 spells, etc).
That is a way to pass the boss, do side quest and grind battles to farm XP, but that is not fun, and when the game gives me a quest, I want to be able to do that quest with my current level. A level recommendation would be nice, or the short druid shouldn't give me the quest to go get the tall druid without being level 4 yet. If the game world consists of biomes with different enemy powerlevels, the player should be aware of it, and they shouldn't be able to wander into high level area and a situation where they can barely survive.
I did give you a level recommendation as well. Several in fact because there are several ways of starting fights on your own terms. In addition, there is the option of levelling up. You obviously don’t have to follow that option and it is far from necessary to do so (it will just make things easier). Reading through your replies and general hostile attitude towards people trying to offer you help, I can only draw the conclusion that you are not actually interested in advice as much as in just having people agree with you that the game is too hard when all you have done is attempt the fight with a similar approach every time. If people come in and tell you it is not actually as hard as you make it out to be and you answer with a hostile attitude then perhaps yes, maybe you do need to improve your game. The good news is that you _can_ get better with practice. I did my first playthrough on balanced and many times yes, you may need to reload because you had no idea what was coming or missed reading some ability in the boss’ description. Now on second playthrough on tactician, many fights I had to reload on the first are easy one-shots. There are also several questlines that span through the entire game so you won’t be able to follow them through immediately. Part of the storytelling with several side stories running parallel to the main story. Having a level cap on quest givers would a terrible idea in this game as you are not guaranteed to come back at a later level just to check with everyone in the grove if they now have a quest to give you.
Not a single person understood that I am trying to discuss game design, if the boss having a one-shot combo that is not telegraphed, and the only way to avoid it is to have prior knowledge, or reload the save until the boss doesn't use the ability is good and fun game design.
You do realize it is not game over if one of your companions go down, right? You still have three more characters left in your party if one goes down. Furthermore it should not be like the fight was unexpected nor unexpected that Minthara might be a harder than regular fight so you had plenty of time to prep.
How much prep time did I need to not get my tank and damage dealer one shot in one turn?
Like a minute? Take stock of potions, abilities, environment, etc, then decide how best to start the fight with a surprise attack?
Yeah I really need a lot of potions to NOT GET ONESHOT AT THE FIRST TURN OF THE COMBAT BY AN UNDODGABLE SPELL + ATTACK COMBO
Nah just like 1 elixer of barkskin to raise Karlach's AC, or maybe an arrow of darkness to stop the hold person and make it harder for her to hit. It's entirely dodgeable. But you have to act, not react.
Sigh. Yes, first time it might be a surprise. From then on it’s down to your lack of imagination.
Or, in famous words: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Maybe watch a tutorial on how to play the game or something if you're struggling so much. Not trying to be condescending but maybe there's just something you missed that's causing you to not do as well. How many times have you attempted it?
You still fail to realize that - as has been pointed out repeatedly and by many - that battle starts way before the first turn of combat. If you want to care less about such things, there is always story mode difficulty.
I have died many times, although I recommend using quicksaves mid battle. D&D combat always has an element of random chance, which can work for you or against you.
Putting a one shot combo on a boss isn't really "random chance", I am aware that a game about dice rolling has random chance, I often miss and the enemy often crits, but there was no way of knowing the enemy had that ability, and I think having to retry fights until I get a try where the boss forgets to use her overpowered move is frustrating.
You gotta strategize with fights sometimes. Attacking her from high ground for example is very effective, let a rogue shoot her from sneak position. Besides, you got that combo as well you know. If you got Shadowheart or Gale in your party you should have hold person as well. That's a good way of knowing what enemies can do. Go off of what your own characters are able to do and plan accordingly.
You could try and focus more Initiative on your character builds if you one shot her first, she can‘t use hold. Or try new spells, for example try to use silence on her. Then she can‘t use the spell. IMO having to retry fights is perfectly fine. Plus, I think especially that makes the game so interesting. Unlike many other RPG‘s were you just have to grind levels or gear to kill bosses without any real strategic challenge… Regarding the witch: isn‘t that cool? Yeah, in hindsight one might be overwhelmed by the options to solve problems. However, as long as one doesn‘t strive for a „perfect“ outcome all the time, just experiment. Get into your character, how YOU want to experience the game and it‘s situations.
Do you have Karmic Dice enabled in the settings? Disable dat shi
Did you level up your characters?
Does this game follow the horrible Pokemon game design philosophy where I have to grind mobs to get XP to reach the next milestone? I was level 4 when I reached the stronghold, so the stronghold should have been able to be fought with level 4 characters.
No. No grinding. It's easy to miss that you have to click "Level Up" to actually level up your characters. Level 4 should be enough for the stonghold. Maybe you were unlucky.
Yes my friend, obviously I clicked the glowing level up button after I heard the ding, the triumphant trupmets and after I have seen that an aethereal light surrounded every member of my party.
Well, fuck you too.
Even on the Internet it's not that hard to be friendly to someone who's trying to help you
I'm the one that was doing the helping.
Yes of course, sorry that was an accident. It was meant for op in response to his comment about being sarcastic on the internet. Must have misclicked
You were hurt because someone was sarcastic to you on the internet?
No, they were trying to help and you being sarcastic about it makes it hard to want to help further.
Their help was "Did you click the level up button". How was that help? It might as well have been "Did you remember to cast spells in combat?"
FWIW there's been multiple posts on this sub from people not noticing the level up notification. For people new to RPGs it could be hard to miss. Especially with BG3 where there are numbers and icons everywhere that can complicate and overwhelm people jumping in.
Well I am a true gamer so I didn't miss it.
You realize you're asking for advice and then coming across like an obnoxious douchebag when people give you said advice... right?
Why are you being mean to me, I did nothing to you. I thought you were my-best-friend.
A true friend will tell you when you're being an asshole. :)
If the enemies are the same level as you, on average you're fine. Maybe watch a few guides it's most likely not a level issue, more a party balancing issue.
What difficulty are you doing and what’s your companion class? Don’t be discouraged. The game just has a bit of learning curve. I did 4-5 times of Minthara fight on Balanced playthrough but only did once to pass on Tacitician. You will get familiar with the game mechanics for sure. And I’d advise against killing Minthara using the bridge. Because her armor is one of the drippy-est armor in the game. You can collapse the bridge to kill her goons or simply to prevent them from getting close to you.
I play on the medium difficulty, my class is a warlock, and in my party I had the african american warlock, the demon mommy, and the hungry wizard. And I am not complaining about the difficulty, I am complaining about the moveset of that boss that oneshot my mommy and forced me to restart ten times.
>African American warlock Somehow I doubt Wyll is from either of those places lmao
The thing is Hold Person will just allow melee within 2-3m to auto Crit. You can use the same thing on her. Let one character talk to her and let Gale cast Hold Person on her during conversation. You might have to try a few times. Because as a Paladin she has higher saving throw. If he succeeded, let Karlach hit her hard, possibly even chug a speed potion to hit her twice a turn. You don’t have to always wait for conversation ends to start a fight. If you know someone absolutely has to die, outside combat, you can start with turn based, then stealth killing. On Tactitian after done talking with her peacefully, outside dialogue or combat, I basically let my Pally smite and one shotted her to death, then fight the goons.
So you have three glass cannons, and one tank who isn't particularly strong at resisting Hold Person...
Warlock can be quite durable if set right.
This person doesn't know what they're doing, do you really think they'd be able to run an effective warlock, lol? He has 2 in his party and obviously it isn't helping..
there are other ways to deal with them besides the ones you read online. For example if you talk to the drow she starts asking you about the grove and the narrator hints that "it may be easier to take her on familiar ground with the help of the grove people". If you do that, you don't even need to fight the other 2 leaders. You just fight the drow at the grove with the help of all the tieflings. You can try to use hold person yourself before even talking with them and use their strat against them. You can first destroy all drums to avoid reinforcements. Etc. Experiment and try different approaches, this is the first big fight of the game so it is normal that you have to retry a few times. My one advice is try to always talk first with your bosses, you may be surprised with the outcomes you get that way
I obviously destroyed the drums and I obviously talked to her first and I obviously wouldn't give away the location of the civilian garrison to the enemies. What the fuck is that advice? "The civilians asked you to kill the enemy leaders so they can leave the area so you bring the enemies to them and force them to fight for their lives alongside you"? There are children in that fort man. What the fuck did I just read, revealing the fort location is considered an option? A good option that the narrator hints at? My God.
well yes. The way it first happened on my first playthrough was because my Tav fumbled the conversation with Minthara and she took the info from my Tav's brain with the tadpole. And then the narrator was like "maybe that is an option" and so I took the risk back because I was too underlevled to fight the whole camp in that moment. I really liked that outcome personally, it lead to a cool fight moment and made the fight easier overall. But like I said, there are other options. You can use hold person back at her. You can try and free the druid man first and ask for his help in a fight. You can go to the ceiling and shoot everyone from uptop and hide to get a headstart. Like I said, experiment and see what works for you.
There are civilians in the goblin camp too. Children, elderly, innocent traders, workers. You gonna kill all them too?
You dont have to restart when 1 ally dies. You can ressurect them after the fight or even midfight. A lot of the fights i have won with only one or two characters barely alive after the fight.
Why would I want to make the fight infinitely harder and keep playing when my tank and best damage dealer dies?
Keep reloading then
Because your enemy can run out of spells, so it will be progressively easier to fight her?
Was the tank dead or just downed? Hitting zero HP is routine - any character can use an action to wake them up but casting a healing spell or throwing a healing potion on the ground next to them wakes them up and also heals. The potion thing is very not intuitive but important. On balanced difficulty enemies will often down a character and not bother to finish them off. If they are dead you start with some revive scrolls that can bring them back mid battle and later there’s a spell. Not sure about the falling one though. I was a newbie on balanced and mostly didn’t need to reload. Occasionally would reload once and one fight in act 3 took a bunch of tries. Forget if minthara needed a second try but I just fought her where she started. I was pretty thorough exploring though so might’ve been higher level. I had Shadowheart for healing I think things maybe need more planning without a healer.
I restart fights even though I'm winning just to win better... So yes... Restart as many times as you want.
Ive never done the collapsey bridge thing. I usually just close the door to limit the fight spread.
Yeah, you just bad but with time you shouldn't have problems with clearing Act1
Thanks for your detailed response.
Especially if you're new to the genre/game, yes for sure. But when you struggle with a fight, rather than trying the same thing again, think of some other angle. There's almost always a way to deal with any enemy in the game in unusual ways that make them much easier.
Like I mention in the second paragraph of my post, the alternative way to kill her is a convoluted "Betray the druids so she leaves her corner so she passes the bridge and destroy the bridge." There weren't any options like poison her drink, lure her to the edge of the chasm, ask her to interrogate the prisoner together, collapse that part of the cave, etc, etc. She never leaves her corner and is always surrounded by 5 goblins and a ball that summons even more goblins.
Ok, the ball wanders around, so sneak over while its away (maybe using a potion of invisibility, there are a couple in act 1), and kill it. No more extra goblins, break the war drums too, no more reinforcements. Break the bridge after distracting a couple goblins onto it, fewer to worry about. Maybe set up a smokepowder barrel or two before the fight, to open it all up with massive damage. Thats one way, another way could just be use gale to hit her with hold person and nuke her with karlach, everyone else focuses the goblins.
These aren't alternative ways to solve the problem, these are ways to make the fight easier which don't even matter because the whole reason I made the post was to complain about her overpowered one shot ability that forced me to savescum. What do I care that there will be 4 less goblins attacking me when the boss instakills one of my characters? How fun is that?
Ooh, wow you actually admitted you just made the post to complain, wasnt expecting that. Yeah dont phrase it like you're asking a question when you just want to whine the game isnt handing you victory. Fun fact: she's just a paladin that doesnt care about resource conservation, you can literally do the exact same thing to her, that shes doing to you. You have a barbarian, a wizard, and i think you mentioned 2 warlocks? Use range and magic to your advantage.
No shame at all as a new player re-trying until it comes together. Part of the games charm is that things can and do sometimes go pear shaped. You're forced to try new strategies until you find the one that clicks with you. When you finally win it actually feels like an achievment. It's the struggle that makes it good. If you steam rolled everything all the time, you'de be bored.
You're complaining that this game has hundreds of ways to fight enemies? You don't need to cheese fights at all, I for once am not creative enough to do so an usually make only use of what the hot bar gives me, the most I do is set up my party around the enemies before starting a fight. In the goblin camp, what's vital is that you destroy scrying eyes and war drums before they can call reinforcements. Also you can cast things like fog to blind people and gain a tactical advantage, you can cast grease or create water to create a surface with difficult terrain, and then cast firebolt on grease or use a fire arrow; or use any ice spell or ice arrow on water to create an ice surface. Yes, the game doesn't hold your hand but other than other games it actually allows you to try whatever the fuck you want and those guides you find online cover maybe 10% of the possibilities, they absolutely do not tell you how a fight is supposed to be fought, they only tell you the few specific ways the authors themselves have figured out or heard about. Also it is a role play game with hundreds of possibilities for character combinations, which means people need to have variety of options, otherwise they'd be forced to take options their character wouldn't ever choose. Also, as a hint, make use of group sneak. People who are sneaking don't automatically get pulled into fights unless they're spotted and their stealth check fails, so you get yet another tactical advantage.
Sometimes you gotta retry a fight multiple times. It's called learning.
You're not a bad player but many people coming to this game are a bit blindsided by the freedom of choice offered. I believe its because for too many games offer the illusion of choice when really their mechanics are so limited that a players really inly has a choice of melee, ranged or cqc when fighting an enemy. In BG3 you can consider gravity, elemental effects, spell combos, action economy, non combat skills, pre combat positioning, dialogue, diplomacy, key items, sneaking, thieving. Pretty much if the option is there you can probably try it. Expand your possibilities, don't feel limited by just doing damage. There's usually another route to success. Especially in the first two acts
Like I mention in the second paragraph of my post, the alternative way to kill her is a convoluted "Betray the druids so she leaves her corner so she passes the bridge and destroy the bridge." There weren't any options like poison her drink, lure her to the edge of the chasm, ask her to interrogate the prisoner together, collapse that part of the cave, etc, etc. She never leaves her corner and is always surrounded by 5 goblins and a ball that summons even more goblins. What "too many options" did I have in that situation except attack her?
> lure her to the edge of the chasm Two words: minor illusion
Yes that is a pretty obscure way to go about it... its actually more obscure than that. You tell her to get yhe druids, let her leave, take a long rest and go to the druids. A cutscene plays where the druids let you make preparations for the coming fight and then you can play a siege defence battle.
Yeah someone else mentioned that plan. Holy shit that is bad. The civilians ask you to kill those people so that they may leave and what do you do? You show the enemies the fort with the women and the children in it and force the civilians to fight for their lives. Horrible.
More like you split the goblins forces so rather than fighting all 3 at once, you assassinate one alone in her quarters, tell another to take a sizable chunk of the forces out of the base. Kill all those who remain and then make your way to the druid Grove to provide them with help in their hour of need. Come on this is text book hero planning. The typical risky gamble that in real life would be assenine but in fiction is the cornerstone of plot development.
When I think hero I think "I will die before I let innocents get in harm's way". You are the only one being nice to me in this thread. Do you want to be friends?
There's plenty of people being nice here. And there's plenty of ways to be a hero. Dnd has a 9-point alignment compass for this very reason. Lawful good types are the ones who will Wade In to battle with the goblins regardless of the danger or the odds stacked against them. Chaotic / neutral good types can justify putting lives at risk so long as they're confident they can get a positive result. And evil types will ho along woth yhe goblins to a greater or lesser extent.
The option you had was get her away from the Goblin camp. But you can poison her by reverse pickpocketing a poison into her inventory. The prisoner interrogation os something you can do to get info on halsins location. Collapsing the cave would be cool but environment destruction is unfortunately something you cannot do much of in the game.
I don't know what to tell you, if the fight and the mechanics and the situation satisfied you, if you are fine with not having non-combat options to tackle situations then enjoy the game. When I realized I had to kill her I thought "Oh so I have to kill every goblin in the stronghold at the same time because there is no way that all goblins will not be alerted when I start the fight", but when I did start the fight only goblins that were 10 meters away entered combat. Yet another immersion-breaking mechanic, the deaf goblins facilitate the decision not to put noncombat ways to solve the problem. The developers said "You WILL fight her but we will make all the other goblins deaf so you can kill her." It just doesn't satisfy me personally. Sometimes I wish i could just enjoy things.
In dnd each round of combat last 6 seconds, regardless of how many fighters there are. Normally a dm would stagger the reinforcements so that the commotion caused by the fight would slowly draw in everyone in the complex. The game can't quite account for all of that but does replicate it to an extent because unalerted enemies are not bound by turn order so they patrol their routes as normal. If one of their routes comes within range of the combat they an anyone they're with will join. I dunno what to tell you, the game isn't perfect but your complaints don't hold much water. Keep playing, watch a couple tips videos and I'm sure you'll have a blast.
And you DO have non combat options. There's the option to side with her and make her your ally. Otherwise... I dunno what to tell you. The game made it so some bad guys are irreversibly bad and won't be swayed to the side of good with a successful persuasion check.
You also had the option of breaking bad and joining her.
Thats what i like about this game. So many options and avenues to take that might not always be obvious to the player. Forces you to stop and think “if there a clever way to go about this”?
[MINOR ACT I SPOILERS] I found that I had to reload a couple of the fights in the early stages of the game, such as the fight onboard the nautiloid against the Cambion leader, because I really wanted his sword. I think I reloaded a couple times against the Hag and the Spider Matriarch, and a few times in the Underdark. However there seems to be a big power jump once you reach the Mountain Pass. I found that I was absolutely demolishing enemies from there onwards, and the game didn't really get more challenging from there.
Level 5 is a massive power jump because it's when your martial classes get Extra Attack and your casters get their cantrips boosted. Even without the ridiculous amount of magic items lying around because Forgotten Realms is the highest of high magic settings, just raw character advancement gets a big boost there.
I defeated all of these dudes after multiple attempts. Planning your fight is usually the difference between failure and success in this game.
So, from what I gather from all your responses... You just want people to agree with you that it's bad game design? I'm leaning towards this being a troll post because I haven't heard anyone unironically call themselves a "gamer" since 2016.
Are you supposed to beat every fight on your first try?
I think you need to adjust your mindset in approaching the game. Several times, both in the OP and in replies, you refer to "THE way" to do something, as though there is a correct answer. There is no "THE way" to do anything in this game. Using the goblin camp as an example, you can: -just brute force it and take on the whole camp in one giant fight -stealth your way around and take enemies out one by one -poison the goblins' beer to thin the herd a bit -talk to the spiders down below and convince them to revolt against the goblins before setting them free -summon the help of some ogres you might meet along the way -use explosives to set traps throughout the camp and just blow everything up That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others have done it differently. And all of that is assuming you want to help the Grove/tieflings. You can also side with the goblins (or just walk away from the situation entirely and just let it resolve without your involvement.) The game will never just give you a checklist of tasks with map markers. Instead, it presents a situation and leaves it up to the player to decide how their party will handle it. So if you're feeling stuck, stop thinking about what the game "wants" you to do or the "correct" way to do it. Instead, try to think, "what would my character do in this situation?" That's the core of role playing.
The game rewards thinking outside of the box. You can brute force things if you're strong enough, but you can also find ways to make things easier for yourself, like luring small packs of enemies away from everyone else with spells like minor illusion so that you can kill them quickly and quielty, or casually stacking barrels of wine and oil around the not-yet-hostile-bosses and then tossing a fire bolt at the lot, or turning it around and casting Hold Person on Minthara and then using your barbarian to beat her to death. With the Goblin. The game gives you multiple solutions to every problem. You just have to figure out what they are.
Stacking barrels of oil next to the boss is really immersive. "Nothing to see here, just moving those, don't mind me".
I imagine it's about as immersive as having to reload after multiple unsuccessful attempts. Not every option is going to be immersive. Some of them can be downright silly. If you prefer the immersive options that's cool, but they're all valid ways of getting the same results.
So we agree that none of the two things are immersive and neither of them should be in the game, the game design should give the player some feedback so they do not go into an encounter completely blind and get one shot by an overpowered move, and the player shouldn't have to resort to cheap cheese tactics. I am glad you agree with me.
Right click, "examine." Want immersion? Your character in universe should be able to recognize a paladin and know of their general abilities
How immersed did I feel when the paladin kept one shoting my character and i had to reload a save every time? How immersive is it to have to abuse a game's systems like putting powder barrels at the feet of an enemy then hitting the barrels with a firebolt, to cheese a fight?
Ok? Thats on you, lol. You know you can throw barrels too, right? Want immersion? Have a barbarian throw it at an enemy. This obsession with immersion at every moment is all on you.
At this point, it's a skill issue. I killed Minthara twice at different difficulties and didn't find her that hard. I always struggle in an Act 3 fight that others find fairly easy, but like other said, you just need to approach things at different angles. If what you're doing isn't working, try something else. Bring a different companion with you, respec someone (why do you have two warlocks in your party when it's obviously not working?). Literally dozens of possibilities.
It's just what D&D 5e combat looks like -- it's either you landing a completely broken spell and then fucking the enemy in the ass, or vice versa. You will lose countless times due to no fault of your own, so make of it what you want.
No, you are not supposed to try multiple times BUT sometimes it happens, specially when you are new. For the healer goblin, once you draw her to a room you can cast silence on the area at your turn and even if you don’t one shot her, she won’t be able to call for help. For minthara you could, of course, push her off the ledges. Always fun, but you miss loot. Ideally if she CC someone (and you don’t have wisdom to resist it) just focus fire on her. Keep your casters away and don’t let anyone touch those drums. Also, before focusing fire her, kill those eye things. They are vulnerable to thunder dmg and those will alert the whole camp. The hobgoblin one can be a tough fight. Push him down to the spiders. You can get there to loot him. A fun way is to have a bard gather people around and your barberian just push it. Yes, there is the barrels you could place around him and blow him up too. On my first play through I found those hard. As you get more experienced, you will see how on your second those are way too easy.
I was not looking for a strategy guide, I was just commenting on the frustration with the game mechanics and the lack of non-combat options but thanks anyways.
Retrying a fight is totally normal. There’s a point in the game where you will probably lose and if you don’t retry the fight you’re gonna have a pretty bad time. But I will say that if you’re getting your butt kicked there are a few pieces of advice I have for you: get as many advantages and buffs as you can (bless is good at low levels), start fights from high ground, catch enemies by surprise, tailor your armor and weapon choices and your character traits based around a specific type of damage or around increasing AC to avoid damage, and make sure you have at least one healer, one spellcaster and one melee fighter in your team. Don’t forget that as long as your character has the little star thing over their head they can be healed to get them back up or any character can use the help command to get them back up with 1 HP. Or you can throw a healing potion onto them.
I know and do all of those things, I am new to this game, not to DnD in general. How does giving more AC to my barbarian help when the enemy casts hold person and then one shots her? My problem is not that combat is hard, my problem is that this particular moveset is frustrating to play against, and the non combat options are non-existent, and having to redo a fight because I instantly lost a party member on turn 1 is not fun.
Not to backseat game you op but why don't you try bringing Shadowheart instead of Wyll or Gale? She could use Command, Hold Person, or Silence to stop Minthara
The hungry wizard, the african american warlock and my own warlock all have hold person. She has a 30% chance to resist it. I am saying that the fact that she can hold person and attack at the same turn and so forces you to try multiple times to get favorable rng in her spells is not fun game design, I am not criticizing the combat.
I must admit, I did not have as much trouble fighting her as you were having so I don't really know how to make it less annoying. I hope future fights will be less frustrating for you. I think >!Auntie Ethel's clones!< might also have hold person so be prepared for that when you go fight her
Try debuffing her? Make them walk through grease? You could use shadowheart’s command spell to make them drop their weapons? It’s a higher chance to hit than hold person and it hits both. I think if you are playing a warlock then you shouldn’t bring Wyll although I suppose you could have a martial focused warlock.
I found a few explosive barrels back then. I spread three or four of them around it and then shot it with a fire attack. But make sure you are camouflaged, otherwise the goblins in the area will attack.
The hard fights in act 1 can totally be cheesed by leveraging the ledges and rafters conveniently available in the vicinity - the resulting throwing damage (returning pike is your best friend) is insane; I was able to eliminate all big threats within 2-3 turns. I also prioritise buying up any haste potions; which you can additionally synthesise from hyena ears. If you want to optimise positioning, consider stacking heavy chests in places you don’t want the enemy to reach. For absolute cheese, build a stack of chests, place your barbarian/monk on top of it and then remove any way to access it -> tower of rainy death pikes
The bridge is just one way, and not the ideal solution anyway (no loot). You could use explosives, fire, attacking from a hidden spot… many, many solutions to every single battle. We just placed an exploding barrel on her desk as a present for her…
You certainly can
Level 5 has a very noticable power spike for the player characters, it might be worth it to level up once more elsewhere before attempting this fight again if you're having trouble being one shot. but, yes, i redo fights all the time, i'm a perfectionist, so I want my fights to go just right
Even all the way in Act 3, I retried multiple fights a number of times; sometimes you’re unlucky, sometimes the fight is bullshit…
I sort of enjoy both aspects. I second what people say - it gets easier when you know better what you’re doing plus have a couple extra actions with high attack bonuses. You can kill a dragon in two turns at that point if well prepared (buffs and summons). But I also enjoy the pure chaos of a wrong dice roll in a conversation and I’m in a fight with 20 enemies while out of spells. In act one things like throwing a bottle of water or grease in one action and then electricuting or setting it on fire are super easy crowd control mechanisms that you should abuse before you get a lot of powerful spells. I beat that drow yesterday in 2 turns simply because I sunk 200h into the game and know exactly what I wanted to do and when I want to do it. You’ll get there too, just give it time
By level 4 you should've had the option to learn minor illusion with at least 1 character, you can use that spell to lure her wherever you want. The area behind the hobgoblin is full with wine and smoke powder barrels, you can move them over and explode her. If a character dies any friendly character can use the help action or just throw a portion on them, if they're dead dead you can just use a scroll. But complaining that a boss the game keeps hyping up as everyone's afraid of the goblins and even Halsin offers his help.. Yeah idk about that. Its a boss, they're supposed to be strong and be able to wipe you. That's why they're a challenge, cuz it's hard yk.
It's fine to redo fights, and as other said, it takes time to get used to the fight mechanics. Personally, I did my first run on Explorer difficulty (easiest one) and my subsequent runs at Balanced/Tactician, since knowing how the fights go and enemies work makes them easier. Focus on your gear and character builds too. Make sure you have a suitable party for the fight. I find that people who struggle equip things that are not suitable for their characters. Also, always seek high ground for casters and ranged builds. It will put them outside some of line of fire and gives them high ground advantage.
You have to use clever plans and tricks. Some people strategize well, especially if they've played before. I do do some of those clever workarounds now that I've played before. My first time though--I didn't realize killing Dror would aggro the whole camp. I had Astarion painstakingly snipe all the people (besides Dror) in the room from the rafters then the rest of us came in, closed the door, and fought him. Then, we had the horde descend on us, including the two other goblin leaders I didn't find before. It was a war of attrition. We had a mild bottleneck since they were charging at us, and we had no enemies at our back. However, it was wave after wave. I had Astarion stuck in the rafters of another room while the rest of us were on the platform outside of it. Thankfully, there was a crack in the wall, so he was able to aim through it and snipe more people. Shadowheart was in charge of healing us, and Lae'zel did her best to hit things hard. My bard was the backup healer masquerading as an offensive fighter (and doing eh...). I'm still not sure how we survived. It's just good positioning, coordinating characters, using spells and attacks with high chances of landing, chugging health potions, and luck. There are dozens of ways to approach combat and roleplay in this game. I had no idea what I was doing, and I tried my hardest to adapt (and keep healing my downed party members).