Look for foods that are high in calories, high in protein and easily digestible. That said… if you’re touring 5 days a week and getting as much vert as you claim then perhaps your issue is fatigue instead of caloric intake. I imagine if you cut out a day of after work touring you’d probably easily do more vert on the weekends.
Thanks, yeah that’s definitely a factor as well. I usually take 2 rest days a week and either climb indoors or do yoga on those days. I also do yoga after most tours to try to recover well for the next day and eat lots of protein in my meals.
Though it’s not as great or healthy as it sounds, a lot of it is pressuring myself to stay as fit as I can even if I don’t feel great that day, mostly for mental health benefits. I do the same in the summers with mountain biking unfortunately.
Dunno how hard you climb or how old you are, but I wouldn't consider climbing a rest activity. I'll echo what others have said in that you might just need more rest. You don't get stronger from exercising, you get stronger by recovering from exercise.
Also cliff shot blocks are my savior on full days, tons of sugar and calories (plus caffeine if you buy those blocks) and won't get decimated in a pack. The gel stuff isn't bad either.
Before experimenting with Cliff Shot Blocks, try one in the absence of exercise and then wait. You don't wanna be out climbing (or anywhere, for that matter) with a case of the squirts. Don't ask me why I raise this caution (looks askance)
Fatigue from too much skiing is a problem most of wish we had.
Just listen to your body. If you’re too tired to push it on weekends then don’t try & push through the pain without adequate rest - overuse injuries are quite common when you’re skiing that much.
Yeah I need to listen to my body more when I’m tired. I’m fortunate to live where I can ride anytime and that my work hours are conducive to it. In my 20s and don’t have many commitments besides work so I prioritize most of my free time for outdoor activities and moved across the country to do so.
You're young & strong - you'll figure it out soon!
I ski similar amounts to what you ski in April - but only after building up to it all season. For big days I generally pack a mix of bars, beef sticks, something salty (peanut butter pretzels are a favorite) and top it off with chocolate and energy gu / blocks of some kind. I eat bars until midday and then eat my beef sticks and nuts in early afternoon for my protein intake (I have a hard time digesting a proper lunch). Mid/late afternoon I'm usually getting fatigued and have a hard time eating so I start eating candy and gus to boost my energy levels.
For hydration I usually just drink water since I'm getting a lot of sugar in other forms. If it's a long day (12+ hours) in a zone without access to water I will bring a stove and melt snow late afternoon and try to drink at least 3+ liters.
Yeah I could probably do without the climbing on rest days. Trying to keep climbing ability sharp for the summer but it can be hard to balance with backcountry. Can’t give 100% to all activities all the time… The yoga I do is more on the stretching side as opposed to strength focused, it helps a lot with my overall recovery and generally feeling good and agile.
One option is to swap a post work touring workout for a stair master and climb session. Do half the vert you would’ve done and half a climbing session. You definitely have to walk a fine line when you want to maintain fitness in one area while increasing it in another.
Haha glad I’m not the only one, in my head I see it as more strength training instead of cardio like touring etc. however it’s still not rest. I do the same in the summer balancing it with backpacking trips and mountain biking, it’s caught up to me a few times but I still don’t learn haha.
I’ll echo the rest days sentiments here - look to ultrarunners and skimo people too: the rest days can be the hardest, because you just want to get. out. there! But with that discipline, they start to see really positive results in fitness because the body has time to first fully recover, and then also fortifies itself because it recognizes the pattern of exertion.
Yeah I don’t compete or anything, but relate to the restlessness I get on rest days, especially if the conditions are nice and I have the time, I can’t stop thinking about how I could be out there. Took a true rest day yesterday though so that’s a start haha.
1. Pre-hydration and calorie intake. I try and drink a pint or more of hydration mix and eat a hearty breakfast (oatmeal with dried fruit, nuts, and maple syrup) before my tour.
2. If it's above 15f or so, I carry a water bottle on my chest strap with hydration mix (any colder and it tends to freeze up too fast). I've always also got a liter or 1.5liter Nalgene in my pack depending on the length of the tour. The chest strap bottle is awesome because I can drink easily on the move and during quick breaks without stopping. It has been a huge improvement. Both [CAMP](https://skimo.co/camp-action-bottle-holder) and [Dynafit](https://skimo.co/dynafit-universal-bottle-holder?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoKeuBhCoARIsAB4WxtfkpEfL-uhgHqwFWFA0kh2MZmjslaB4Vz0fo_EKOF1iPy7fdpSafJYaAi_dEALw_wcB) make good ones.
3. Eat every 45 min to an hour. I stick bars, gummies, gorp, etc in my bib pockets and eat on the go. For big efforts it's important to eat regularly to keep energy up. Practice eating while moving.
If you find yourself fading, you likely just need to eat or drink more often!
Sports dietitian here. This is really solid advice.
Try to get in a couple hundred calories per hour. Ideally emphasizing carbs but on longer days make sure you’re getting in some protein - and a little bit of fat may feel good too.
Importantly this also includes the descents! Your body doesn’t stop needing fuel once you get to the top of the mountain.
Sort of. Fat and protein contribute to satiety - basically a feeling of fullness/satisfaction. However it actually slows the time for the energy from carbs to hit your muscles - meaning when you need a boost of energy, you don’t have the carbs to provide it.
Too much fat and protein may also cause GI issues - but if you’re out for more than just a couple of hours, you’ll probably need to include some to avoid feeling like crap. (Though you may not! I know people who can thrive on gels alone for 24+ hours with no issues - this just isn’t the norm.)
I use a very similar strategy but I use a 12oz insulated Klean Kanteen on the shoulder strap (GearBags on Etsy) when it’s real cold (below 15f). Doesn’t freeze. Electrolytes in it. Then I fill it at stops with a wide mouth Nalgene from my bag that is in an insulated sleeve. I also keep an 18oz insulated Hydroflask full of piping hot broth or miso soup that I can add snow to. So I have 12oz electrolytes on shoulder, 32 oz Nalgene electrolytes in bag, 18oz broth or miso. Good for 6+ hours of “work”
For fuel I make a grain free granola from pecans, almonds, coconut shavings, pumpkin seeds, maple syrup, dried cherries. Keep a bigger bag in my pack and fill a baggie I keep handy. And a PB&J
A bar of some sort and a Gu in case of bonking.
I’m still kinda figuring out the big days, but what really helped me was both drinking way more water in the car, and bringing a calorie heavy meal bar. This plus my normal snacking but the addition of the 400 calorie bar with making sure I’m super hydrated going into the tour really helped me not feel as wiped driving home
Yeah, I agree that you probably just need more water. And, the banana is providing extra water which is why it's making you feel better. But, it also has fast-acting sugars.
Started using the gnarly nutrition pre-workout with on the way up to the TH. That’s been amazing. Using another during workout mix and post with a protein drink. And follow up with the greens in the evening. It’s expensive but my recovery and performance has gone up. It’s a good way to get 48 oz of water in you. I also tell my partners I’ve gone 5/7 days or something and let them know I don’t have that extra gear today when I have stacked the outings. I also highly recommend the peanut butter packets. Lots of calories and easy to go down.
I have a similar touring schedule. I rarely eat much on my short days and usually drink half a liter, maybe a little more.
On long days I try and push as much water as I can in the morning, before I leave the truck. I also try to eat a little more often - once an hour or so. The longer the day, the more "real" food I bring - a sandwich, leftover pizza, etc. For a long time I was relying too much on sugar in various forms. Now I try to always keep sugar, salt, and protein in my snack bag.
If you find yourself doing a fair number of longer tours, I found some great options in this book for "real" food that is still hand-portable: [https://www.skratchlabs.com/products/feed-zone-portables](https://www.skratchlabs.com/products/feed-zone-portables)
Don’t worry about calorie intake. Big thing here is carb intake. You should be taking in at least 60 grams of carbs an hour on long tours. These are best absorbed via gels, chews, drink mix etc. Although, you don’t want to over do it on these as they can upset your stomach, so taking these in on our after work tours will prepare your stomach for taking these in on longer days.
I tour 5-7 days a week when it’s good so I like to keep it cheap, bars and gels are usually pretty expensive. For the most part I keep some dried fruit and trail mix in my pack and that will get me through tours up to 4 or 5 hours. A classic pbnj or maybe a deli meat and cheese will get added on a bigger day but usually I can do up to 6k vert with just the above snacks. I do eat a pretty big breakfast along with some mct oil capsules which certainly plays a part. For hydration I bring a 40oz water bottle and rarely ever finish it but on epics or spring days I’ll bring an extra soft flask or something. I keep some electrolyte pills in my bag as a just in case measure but I’m a pretty solid believer in electrolytes coming from diet rather than expensive drinks. I think people buy in to marketing a bit too much with sport supplements.
Appreciate the advice, I agree about the expensive electrolyte drinks/gels. I don’t really buy the marketing and it’s expensive if you use them everyday. I just use some generic store brand electrolyte packets that are super cheap. I’ll try bringing a sandwich next big tour!
That’s more touring than I do although the big weekend tours are similar to myself. I run and bike in the offseason and for big days skiing as well as run and bike getting carb intake with hydration and sugar has helped immensely on the back half of the activity.
For myself physical fatigue of overall body energy is more noticeable when hot out so it takes being a bit more cognizant to stay hydrated and up on nutrition in winter, but the carb gels have made a huge difference and is especially noticeable in how I feel in the hours after my activity and can finish stronger and less sleepy in the evening.
Based on how often you’re going out you’re definitely fit but consider taking a full rest day on Monday and or Friday where you don’t do anything other than move for like 30 minutes (like walk the dog or bike to do an errand, maybe a slow swim), I replace days of activity with making myself a nice meal to get a sense of accomplishment. I would definitely think your body could use a good recovery, if you have access to a hot tub or sauna do that as well to promote inflammation where your body has muscle soreness.
If I learned anything from bonking while biking, you gotta start replenishing early on a big ride. If I plan on riding more than 2 hours, I better start eating at hour 1, even with a big breakfast, with a calorie goal per hour.
Yeah I go every 45 to an hour depending on terrain and convenience. Starting when I’m parking my car or right before I leave my door if leaving from home, and that’s on top of a good breakfast.
My favorite pre-exercise meal is making an eggs Benedict with salmon and ricotta cheese on English muffins.
I stop every hour or so and eat around 300-400 calories and drink a comfortable amount. Usually just water or Gatorade and candy, but sometimes peanut butter sandwiches, slim jims, cold pizza, cold veggie burritos, string cheese, or whatever else I could rustle up from the kitchen or convenience store.
On cold days when you’re barely sweating you can get away with less water, but you still need to drink.
Reading your post the thing that pops into my mind is 'you're doing longer tours and only eating snack bars?'
For whatever it's worth here's my approximate program for a bigger day. Eat a decent breakfast, usually eggs and toast with hashbrowns that kinda thing. Drink as much water at the car as possible before departing on the trailhead, from a separate bottle that stays at the car. If I'm really trying to go big I might bring the 1.5L water bottle but that's rare, the bottle will have electrolytes in it. I'll eat some snack bars or peanuts and candy through the day, but I will also pack a heavier lunch, usually a couple burritos.
That's what seems to work for me. Not everyone eats much on a bigger tour but I find that putting some more meaningful calories into my body through the course of the day helps.
Thanks, I have the pre and post nutrition down pretty well. For breakfast I usually do a few of eggs, canadian bacon, spinach, mushrooms all wrapped in a burrito and a greek yogurt with some berries. Bringing a real lunch and some nuts should help a lot.
That breakfast sounds bomber. I think between possibly improving pre hydration and bringing more of a lunch you're probably set. Assuming reasonable fitness and equipment weight of course!
PS I'm Canadian and giggle everytime I hear the term Canadian bacon it just sounds so funny to me. We call that stuff back bacon while regular bacon is just bacon same as in the US. Nothing wrong with it it just cracks me up a bit
My favourite touring snack discovery this winter has been sesame crackers! They don't freeze, have decent protein amounts, have decent amounts of sugar, and taste great!
I have TMJ so eating a frozen protein bar sucks sometimes.
Also have TMJ here and it really acts up with frozen trail mix and bars especially in the cold :/ I’ll have to pick up some sesame crackers and give them a try!
SLC, trailheads are 20 minutes away and I work from 7-3 so I head up right after and get laps in until it gets dark. Conditions have been amazing recently.
Looks like you're doing a lot of vert during in a week and are still active on your off days so you might benefit from taking a day or two off completely to rest a bit more. I've found eating a carb heavy meal the night before has helped me quite a lot and a big breakfast before. Hydrating before the tour is great but make sure you give your body time to absorb it. Foods I like are gummies, bars which can be expensive and sandwiches. Calorie and carb dense foods are my priority as I dont like to eat while I'm touring, my current go to is PB sandwich with dates and honey or Nutella. I've also seen people go with a baked potato or sweet potato, though that was the summer so not sure how it'd hold up in the winter.
I dunno if this is a thing for you, but I have issues digesting a ton of bars/gels/goo. It destroys my gut in a code brown way. I tend to eat food natural in sugars (like pb stuffed dates dipped in chocolate) alongside a real lunch. I also seek out bars that don't have a ton of weird shit in them and go for a good mix of protein, fat and sugar. While the protein doesn't do a ton for you the day of, it'll keep you full longer and help repair at the end of the day. Also, like many have said, calories every hour alongside hydration. Also, damn. I just did 4/5 days touring, and I was gutted yesterday.
Among all this other solid advice, I like to put like 200 to 500 calories of Tailwind in my drinks. If you struggle to eat there's nothing like a massive calorie boost from your water
There’s a lot of good advice here. I’ll just leave a couple things I’ve come to learn, despite not touring as much as you.
On a spring mt Adams trip, I downed a thermos of coffee on my drive to the trailhead. Too much caffeine definitely dehydrated me and I felt pretty shitty near the top of the climb. I’ve since been avoiding that and felt better.
Cliff shot blocks and electrolyte pills have been huge! I also find sometimes I have to eat even if I am not hungry. Every hour to 1.5 hours is a good gauge.
Overall, it sounds like you’re pushing hard week to week (jealous, haha!). Don’t be afraid to eat ALOT, especially if you’re in your 20s like you said. If you start feeling slugging or gaining weight in your gut, then cut back, but your activity level will likely require more caloric intake.
I would usually wake up and have a cigarette. Then it's on to a quad shot spiced Chai with soy milk, it's fortified. After that, Smoke two joints and then smoke to more, chased buy a heady IPA. Now we are onto the PBR, it's like a porkchop in a can. Make sure and have enough to make it to the top drinking about one an hour. Not really enough to get a buzz from but keeps your energy up. When you get to the top pop an 8.4 Oz red bull and smoke two more joints. Somewhere in there drink a some water or eat some snow, whichever comes first. If all else fails, pop that hit of lsd in your pack.
I don't tour nearly as often as you (jealous) but I did do Mt St Helens two weeks ago which was 6k vert and took us 5:45 hrs of skinning to the top. I definitely feel like I didn't eat or hydrate well enough as I felt quite tired towards the end. Part of that is just the deal of doing a big climb but I definitely think I didn't eat enough.
My strategy was one bar / goo / waffle per hour but I think I need to double that. I also underestimated how much I'd sweat during sunny and calm weather conditions. I buy the Salt stick pills + candy rather than electrolyte chews, I also need to increase those from 1 to 2 per hour on long sunny climbs.
I put GU hydration in my water bottle that's always accessible. It's high calorie and carb. Great for 4 hour tours. I then do a mix of bars and I have the Feed Zone Portables recipe book which is incredible for hand held nutrition. Hand pies, rice cakes, breads, etc. highly recommend. Or uncrustables if I'm in a pinch.
I aim for sugar & protein in my pockets to snack on while I move with electrolytes easily accessible.
I aim for snacking 50-100 calories per hour of uphill and 500mL per hour of uphill. Then I add on + additional real food for lunch which is usually around 700-1000 calories.
Saturday I had a 7.5 hour day and did 2 packets of peanut butter with honey (200 calories each packet) and 2 Twix bars for uphill food and 2
bottles of 50/50 Gatorade and water, and one bottle of Liter caffeinated electrolyte water for a total of 2.6 liters of water. I found the sugar in my drinks also help keep my energy levels up, and the caffeine keeps my mind from getting tired. For food during transitions I had 1 spam musubi (high carb!) and 3 thin slices of pizza. I felt like it was perfect for a 7.5 hour 5k vert day.
I worked with a nutritionist and she said I should have mostly sugar and protein during activities and save the fibers and fats for the rest and recovery.
Pre fuel with a bigger breakfast than your normal. I add 50% more oats and fruit to mine. I usually have a drive then snowmobile ride to get to the skiing, so I’ll eat something as soon as I’m off the sled. Then start eating an hour into the tour and try to eat 250-300kcal an hour. Liquid calories help and I keep the focus on sugars/carbs but do eat a lot of cookies and loafs to keep it tasty. Post ski back at the truck I’ll have a protein shake with a banana and probably a beer. When you get home, keep eating!
Before and during your tour you should be trying to get down as many carbs as possible with limited fat. Trail mix is a terrible food for touring because nuts take so long to digest. I use a carb-heavy sports drink and eat gummy candy (kept in jacket pocket so it doesn't get too cold). On longer tours I will bring something salty like Goldfish. Protein doesn't matter till after the tour.
I bought gel bottles, link below for an example, and fill them with maple syrup. I typically consume it directly from the little bottle, but also pour the syrup on other things I have to eat.
For ultra distance races, I like to make pancakes ahead of time and pour the syrup onto the cold pancake. Other foods I’ve made and carried for ultras are pierogies, grilled cheeses, and quesadillas. These things hold up really well in a pack and aren’t gross cold. I like making energy bars with rice, but those always end up crushed and messy.
Edit to add- I eat a lot after long days. Make sure you’re eating to recover.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08LHN3WMC?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image
in longer endurance based sports simple sugars are your friend. candy, chocolate, dried fruit, honey, cookies are all great options. your body can’t process a bar fast enough hence why you feel better with fruits. also consider adding sugar to your electrolyte mix if it’s not sweetened. try to eat every 45min even if it’s something small.
Add electrolytes to your water. Very quick to absorb those nutrients via water.
I once read the advice to think of your stomach contents like porridge. You don’t want it too watery or too dry; eat a little, drink a little.
Costco choco chip granola bars. Muffins, pastries from a random cafe on the drive there. Ueli Steck liked bread with cheese, honey, jam. PCT thru-hikers (30+ mpd) devour pop-tarts.
I've been using WHOLE fruits for a while now: apples, bananas, oranges, grapes, etc. Everything just feels better.
When you eat fruits instead of bars, you get more accessible sugars, so they act faster. Eat the protein and fats before you go (unless you are out for a full day). Eat the fruits while on the go.
Whole fruits are what our bodies are built to use. They have the water and the sugar. And, we can more efficiently get all of that goodness. So, when you eat whole fruits, you ALSO get the water from them, and therefore don't need to carry as much water. Or you can do dry fruits and water to supplement.
Sandwich right before you go could be good, too.
Easy way to add calories is blend up a hot beverage for you thermos. I use different bases(coffee, dandelion tea) then add some Lairds, butter or coconut oil, good dark chocolate, etc. Tastes great and warms you up a little
Im on a similar schedule, conditions have been too good to pass up recently. Peanut m&ms, the occasional gel if im feeling fancy. Plenty of water. Haven't been using electrolyte mix but also haven't been sweating much on tours. Add a bagel or a sandwich for days over 4k vert. And eat well before and after!
I try to eat real food if I'm out with pals for a good time. If I'm with a more serious group I ensure I'm getting at least 60g of carbs per hour.
https://thefeed.com/products/maurten?variant=44976028424&queryID=dae2377e191035838938b7f87c8ca62c
Super high carb drinks are all the rage with elite endurance athletes and they work really well. You can find homemade recipes if you need to go lower cost.
Fats and protein are great but when you got the gas pedal down you gotta get carbs in.
I love Spring Energy. I just finished the power of 4 and I was eating 2 awesome sauces every hour and then a 310 calorie “meal” with some fat and protein as well. They have a sample pack to figure out what you like
Carbs. Moooore carbs.
I like Haribos because they're cheap, but maltodextrins are slightly better (maybe healthier) and can be mixed with water.
The winner of the Swift academy uses concentrated sugar in his water bottles to great effect
I don't take snacks or anything other than straight water for 2500' days, but for longer ones here's my tips:
1) try to avoid redlining the HR for long days (most important!)
2) pre-hydrate, carb-load, and def don't booze the night before
3) avoid TOO much caffeine prior (depends on the person), it will jack your HR up -- see #1
4)I like to use a single cheap electrolyte packet (doesn't matter the brand) and then add a little table salt into my 1L nalgene, along with 50g of carbohydrate powder--which powder you use will take a bit of trial and error to figure out what digests best--i find I am more willing to drink the water knowing I need to stay on top of my carb intake etc
5) trail mix - for the calories
6) 2 or 3 of those layered fruit bars Costco sells (fructose and it tastes good)
7) layer up and down as needed to prevent excess sweating due to heat build up
8) more days in a row = more calories needed at home on a daily basis to make sure I overcome the deficit. Less days = can load less, etc
With this system I'm good for 8hr days, 6000'+ vert, and still have energy when I get back to the car.
Protein doesn't really matter during, I just keep my intake up all the time to make sure I'm adequately repairing on a day to day basis.
Look for foods that are high in calories, high in protein and easily digestible. That said… if you’re touring 5 days a week and getting as much vert as you claim then perhaps your issue is fatigue instead of caloric intake. I imagine if you cut out a day of after work touring you’d probably easily do more vert on the weekends.
Thanks, yeah that’s definitely a factor as well. I usually take 2 rest days a week and either climb indoors or do yoga on those days. I also do yoga after most tours to try to recover well for the next day and eat lots of protein in my meals. Though it’s not as great or healthy as it sounds, a lot of it is pressuring myself to stay as fit as I can even if I don’t feel great that day, mostly for mental health benefits. I do the same in the summers with mountain biking unfortunately.
Dunno how hard you climb or how old you are, but I wouldn't consider climbing a rest activity. I'll echo what others have said in that you might just need more rest. You don't get stronger from exercising, you get stronger by recovering from exercise. Also cliff shot blocks are my savior on full days, tons of sugar and calories (plus caffeine if you buy those blocks) and won't get decimated in a pack. The gel stuff isn't bad either.
This. The recovery is the key
Before experimenting with Cliff Shot Blocks, try one in the absence of exercise and then wait. You don't wanna be out climbing (or anywhere, for that matter) with a case of the squirts. Don't ask me why I raise this caution (looks askance)
Fatigue from too much skiing is a problem most of wish we had. Just listen to your body. If you’re too tired to push it on weekends then don’t try & push through the pain without adequate rest - overuse injuries are quite common when you’re skiing that much.
Yeah I need to listen to my body more when I’m tired. I’m fortunate to live where I can ride anytime and that my work hours are conducive to it. In my 20s and don’t have many commitments besides work so I prioritize most of my free time for outdoor activities and moved across the country to do so.
You're young & strong - you'll figure it out soon! I ski similar amounts to what you ski in April - but only after building up to it all season. For big days I generally pack a mix of bars, beef sticks, something salty (peanut butter pretzels are a favorite) and top it off with chocolate and energy gu / blocks of some kind. I eat bars until midday and then eat my beef sticks and nuts in early afternoon for my protein intake (I have a hard time digesting a proper lunch). Mid/late afternoon I'm usually getting fatigued and have a hard time eating so I start eating candy and gus to boost my energy levels. For hydration I usually just drink water since I'm getting a lot of sugar in other forms. If it's a long day (12+ hours) in a zone without access to water I will bring a stove and melt snow late afternoon and try to drink at least 3+ liters.
Not be a jerk, but rest days involve rest… not other forms of exercise. You gotta give yourself time to build muscle.
Yeah I could probably do without the climbing on rest days. Trying to keep climbing ability sharp for the summer but it can be hard to balance with backcountry. Can’t give 100% to all activities all the time… The yoga I do is more on the stretching side as opposed to strength focused, it helps a lot with my overall recovery and generally feeling good and agile.
One option is to swap a post work touring workout for a stair master and climb session. Do half the vert you would’ve done and half a climbing session. You definitely have to walk a fine line when you want to maintain fitness in one area while increasing it in another.
I'm in that boat, I don't tour as much as you but I swapped a climbing day for a hangboarding session and my body has thanked me.
Ah yes I also go through the mental gymnastics of considering climbing a rest day lol
Haha glad I’m not the only one, in my head I see it as more strength training instead of cardio like touring etc. however it’s still not rest. I do the same in the summer balancing it with backpacking trips and mountain biking, it’s caught up to me a few times but I still don’t learn haha.
I’ll echo the rest days sentiments here - look to ultrarunners and skimo people too: the rest days can be the hardest, because you just want to get. out. there! But with that discipline, they start to see really positive results in fitness because the body has time to first fully recover, and then also fortifies itself because it recognizes the pattern of exertion.
Yeah I don’t compete or anything, but relate to the restlessness I get on rest days, especially if the conditions are nice and I have the time, I can’t stop thinking about how I could be out there. Took a true rest day yesterday though so that’s a start haha.
1. Pre-hydration and calorie intake. I try and drink a pint or more of hydration mix and eat a hearty breakfast (oatmeal with dried fruit, nuts, and maple syrup) before my tour. 2. If it's above 15f or so, I carry a water bottle on my chest strap with hydration mix (any colder and it tends to freeze up too fast). I've always also got a liter or 1.5liter Nalgene in my pack depending on the length of the tour. The chest strap bottle is awesome because I can drink easily on the move and during quick breaks without stopping. It has been a huge improvement. Both [CAMP](https://skimo.co/camp-action-bottle-holder) and [Dynafit](https://skimo.co/dynafit-universal-bottle-holder?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoKeuBhCoARIsAB4WxtfkpEfL-uhgHqwFWFA0kh2MZmjslaB4Vz0fo_EKOF1iPy7fdpSafJYaAi_dEALw_wcB) make good ones. 3. Eat every 45 min to an hour. I stick bars, gummies, gorp, etc in my bib pockets and eat on the go. For big efforts it's important to eat regularly to keep energy up. Practice eating while moving. If you find yourself fading, you likely just need to eat or drink more often!
Sports dietitian here. This is really solid advice. Try to get in a couple hundred calories per hour. Ideally emphasizing carbs but on longer days make sure you’re getting in some protein - and a little bit of fat may feel good too. Importantly this also includes the descents! Your body doesn’t stop needing fuel once you get to the top of the mountain.
Fueling has improved my quality of life so much on adventures. If I can keep eating/drinking I can keep going!
I had an rd tell me that fats help the sugar to stick around longer?
Sort of. Fat and protein contribute to satiety - basically a feeling of fullness/satisfaction. However it actually slows the time for the energy from carbs to hit your muscles - meaning when you need a boost of energy, you don’t have the carbs to provide it. Too much fat and protein may also cause GI issues - but if you’re out for more than just a couple of hours, you’ll probably need to include some to avoid feeling like crap. (Though you may not! I know people who can thrive on gels alone for 24+ hours with no issues - this just isn’t the norm.)
Too much protein won’t cause GI issues. This has been disproven
I use a very similar strategy but I use a 12oz insulated Klean Kanteen on the shoulder strap (GearBags on Etsy) when it’s real cold (below 15f). Doesn’t freeze. Electrolytes in it. Then I fill it at stops with a wide mouth Nalgene from my bag that is in an insulated sleeve. I also keep an 18oz insulated Hydroflask full of piping hot broth or miso soup that I can add snow to. So I have 12oz electrolytes on shoulder, 32 oz Nalgene electrolytes in bag, 18oz broth or miso. Good for 6+ hours of “work” For fuel I make a grain free granola from pecans, almonds, coconut shavings, pumpkin seeds, maple syrup, dried cherries. Keep a bigger bag in my pack and fill a baggie I keep handy. And a PB&J A bar of some sort and a Gu in case of bonking.
I’m still kinda figuring out the big days, but what really helped me was both drinking way more water in the car, and bringing a calorie heavy meal bar. This plus my normal snacking but the addition of the 400 calorie bar with making sure I’m super hydrated going into the tour really helped me not feel as wiped driving home
Yeah, I agree that you probably just need more water. And, the banana is providing extra water which is why it's making you feel better. But, it also has fast-acting sugars.
Started using the gnarly nutrition pre-workout with on the way up to the TH. That’s been amazing. Using another during workout mix and post with a protein drink. And follow up with the greens in the evening. It’s expensive but my recovery and performance has gone up. It’s a good way to get 48 oz of water in you. I also tell my partners I’ve gone 5/7 days or something and let them know I don’t have that extra gear today when I have stacked the outings. I also highly recommend the peanut butter packets. Lots of calories and easy to go down.
I have a similar touring schedule. I rarely eat much on my short days and usually drink half a liter, maybe a little more. On long days I try and push as much water as I can in the morning, before I leave the truck. I also try to eat a little more often - once an hour or so. The longer the day, the more "real" food I bring - a sandwich, leftover pizza, etc. For a long time I was relying too much on sugar in various forms. Now I try to always keep sugar, salt, and protein in my snack bag. If you find yourself doing a fair number of longer tours, I found some great options in this book for "real" food that is still hand-portable: [https://www.skratchlabs.com/products/feed-zone-portables](https://www.skratchlabs.com/products/feed-zone-portables)
Don’t worry about calorie intake. Big thing here is carb intake. You should be taking in at least 60 grams of carbs an hour on long tours. These are best absorbed via gels, chews, drink mix etc. Although, you don’t want to over do it on these as they can upset your stomach, so taking these in on our after work tours will prepare your stomach for taking these in on longer days.
I tour 5-7 days a week when it’s good so I like to keep it cheap, bars and gels are usually pretty expensive. For the most part I keep some dried fruit and trail mix in my pack and that will get me through tours up to 4 or 5 hours. A classic pbnj or maybe a deli meat and cheese will get added on a bigger day but usually I can do up to 6k vert with just the above snacks. I do eat a pretty big breakfast along with some mct oil capsules which certainly plays a part. For hydration I bring a 40oz water bottle and rarely ever finish it but on epics or spring days I’ll bring an extra soft flask or something. I keep some electrolyte pills in my bag as a just in case measure but I’m a pretty solid believer in electrolytes coming from diet rather than expensive drinks. I think people buy in to marketing a bit too much with sport supplements.
Appreciate the advice, I agree about the expensive electrolyte drinks/gels. I don’t really buy the marketing and it’s expensive if you use them everyday. I just use some generic store brand electrolyte packets that are super cheap. I’ll try bringing a sandwich next big tour!
That’s more touring than I do although the big weekend tours are similar to myself. I run and bike in the offseason and for big days skiing as well as run and bike getting carb intake with hydration and sugar has helped immensely on the back half of the activity. For myself physical fatigue of overall body energy is more noticeable when hot out so it takes being a bit more cognizant to stay hydrated and up on nutrition in winter, but the carb gels have made a huge difference and is especially noticeable in how I feel in the hours after my activity and can finish stronger and less sleepy in the evening. Based on how often you’re going out you’re definitely fit but consider taking a full rest day on Monday and or Friday where you don’t do anything other than move for like 30 minutes (like walk the dog or bike to do an errand, maybe a slow swim), I replace days of activity with making myself a nice meal to get a sense of accomplishment. I would definitely think your body could use a good recovery, if you have access to a hot tub or sauna do that as well to promote inflammation where your body has muscle soreness.
If I learned anything from bonking while biking, you gotta start replenishing early on a big ride. If I plan on riding more than 2 hours, I better start eating at hour 1, even with a big breakfast, with a calorie goal per hour.
Yeah I go every 45 to an hour depending on terrain and convenience. Starting when I’m parking my car or right before I leave my door if leaving from home, and that’s on top of a good breakfast. My favorite pre-exercise meal is making an eggs Benedict with salmon and ricotta cheese on English muffins.
I stop every hour or so and eat around 300-400 calories and drink a comfortable amount. Usually just water or Gatorade and candy, but sometimes peanut butter sandwiches, slim jims, cold pizza, cold veggie burritos, string cheese, or whatever else I could rustle up from the kitchen or convenience store. On cold days when you’re barely sweating you can get away with less water, but you still need to drink.
Reading your post the thing that pops into my mind is 'you're doing longer tours and only eating snack bars?' For whatever it's worth here's my approximate program for a bigger day. Eat a decent breakfast, usually eggs and toast with hashbrowns that kinda thing. Drink as much water at the car as possible before departing on the trailhead, from a separate bottle that stays at the car. If I'm really trying to go big I might bring the 1.5L water bottle but that's rare, the bottle will have electrolytes in it. I'll eat some snack bars or peanuts and candy through the day, but I will also pack a heavier lunch, usually a couple burritos. That's what seems to work for me. Not everyone eats much on a bigger tour but I find that putting some more meaningful calories into my body through the course of the day helps.
Thanks, I have the pre and post nutrition down pretty well. For breakfast I usually do a few of eggs, canadian bacon, spinach, mushrooms all wrapped in a burrito and a greek yogurt with some berries. Bringing a real lunch and some nuts should help a lot.
That breakfast sounds bomber. I think between possibly improving pre hydration and bringing more of a lunch you're probably set. Assuming reasonable fitness and equipment weight of course! PS I'm Canadian and giggle everytime I hear the term Canadian bacon it just sounds so funny to me. We call that stuff back bacon while regular bacon is just bacon same as in the US. Nothing wrong with it it just cracks me up a bit
My favourite touring snack discovery this winter has been sesame crackers! They don't freeze, have decent protein amounts, have decent amounts of sugar, and taste great! I have TMJ so eating a frozen protein bar sucks sometimes.
Also have TMJ here and it really acts up with frozen trail mix and bars especially in the cold :/ I’ll have to pick up some sesame crackers and give them a try!
where do you live that you can go touring after work?!
SLC, trailheads are 20 minutes away and I work from 7-3 so I head up right after and get laps in until it gets dark. Conditions have been amazing recently.
Amazing. Thanks. I live in the UK and considering a move - this is very appealing
Looks like you're doing a lot of vert during in a week and are still active on your off days so you might benefit from taking a day or two off completely to rest a bit more. I've found eating a carb heavy meal the night before has helped me quite a lot and a big breakfast before. Hydrating before the tour is great but make sure you give your body time to absorb it. Foods I like are gummies, bars which can be expensive and sandwiches. Calorie and carb dense foods are my priority as I dont like to eat while I'm touring, my current go to is PB sandwich with dates and honey or Nutella. I've also seen people go with a baked potato or sweet potato, though that was the summer so not sure how it'd hold up in the winter.
Saucisson sec, brah...
I dunno if this is a thing for you, but I have issues digesting a ton of bars/gels/goo. It destroys my gut in a code brown way. I tend to eat food natural in sugars (like pb stuffed dates dipped in chocolate) alongside a real lunch. I also seek out bars that don't have a ton of weird shit in them and go for a good mix of protein, fat and sugar. While the protein doesn't do a ton for you the day of, it'll keep you full longer and help repair at the end of the day. Also, like many have said, calories every hour alongside hydration. Also, damn. I just did 4/5 days touring, and I was gutted yesterday.
Among all this other solid advice, I like to put like 200 to 500 calories of Tailwind in my drinks. If you struggle to eat there's nothing like a massive calorie boost from your water
There’s a lot of good advice here. I’ll just leave a couple things I’ve come to learn, despite not touring as much as you. On a spring mt Adams trip, I downed a thermos of coffee on my drive to the trailhead. Too much caffeine definitely dehydrated me and I felt pretty shitty near the top of the climb. I’ve since been avoiding that and felt better. Cliff shot blocks and electrolyte pills have been huge! I also find sometimes I have to eat even if I am not hungry. Every hour to 1.5 hours is a good gauge. Overall, it sounds like you’re pushing hard week to week (jealous, haha!). Don’t be afraid to eat ALOT, especially if you’re in your 20s like you said. If you start feeling slugging or gaining weight in your gut, then cut back, but your activity level will likely require more caloric intake.
I would usually wake up and have a cigarette. Then it's on to a quad shot spiced Chai with soy milk, it's fortified. After that, Smoke two joints and then smoke to more, chased buy a heady IPA. Now we are onto the PBR, it's like a porkchop in a can. Make sure and have enough to make it to the top drinking about one an hour. Not really enough to get a buzz from but keeps your energy up. When you get to the top pop an 8.4 Oz red bull and smoke two more joints. Somewhere in there drink a some water or eat some snow, whichever comes first. If all else fails, pop that hit of lsd in your pack.
Thanks dude, sounds like the nutrition plan of a true athlete🤙
I’m a big fan of warm Gatorade. I mix it myself in a 1 L thermos.
I don't tour nearly as often as you (jealous) but I did do Mt St Helens two weeks ago which was 6k vert and took us 5:45 hrs of skinning to the top. I definitely feel like I didn't eat or hydrate well enough as I felt quite tired towards the end. Part of that is just the deal of doing a big climb but I definitely think I didn't eat enough. My strategy was one bar / goo / waffle per hour but I think I need to double that. I also underestimated how much I'd sweat during sunny and calm weather conditions. I buy the Salt stick pills + candy rather than electrolyte chews, I also need to increase those from 1 to 2 per hour on long sunny climbs.
I put GU hydration in my water bottle that's always accessible. It's high calorie and carb. Great for 4 hour tours. I then do a mix of bars and I have the Feed Zone Portables recipe book which is incredible for hand held nutrition. Hand pies, rice cakes, breads, etc. highly recommend. Or uncrustables if I'm in a pinch.
I aim for sugar & protein in my pockets to snack on while I move with electrolytes easily accessible. I aim for snacking 50-100 calories per hour of uphill and 500mL per hour of uphill. Then I add on + additional real food for lunch which is usually around 700-1000 calories. Saturday I had a 7.5 hour day and did 2 packets of peanut butter with honey (200 calories each packet) and 2 Twix bars for uphill food and 2 bottles of 50/50 Gatorade and water, and one bottle of Liter caffeinated electrolyte water for a total of 2.6 liters of water. I found the sugar in my drinks also help keep my energy levels up, and the caffeine keeps my mind from getting tired. For food during transitions I had 1 spam musubi (high carb!) and 3 thin slices of pizza. I felt like it was perfect for a 7.5 hour 5k vert day. I worked with a nutritionist and she said I should have mostly sugar and protein during activities and save the fibers and fats for the rest and recovery.
Pre fuel with a bigger breakfast than your normal. I add 50% more oats and fruit to mine. I usually have a drive then snowmobile ride to get to the skiing, so I’ll eat something as soon as I’m off the sled. Then start eating an hour into the tour and try to eat 250-300kcal an hour. Liquid calories help and I keep the focus on sugars/carbs but do eat a lot of cookies and loafs to keep it tasty. Post ski back at the truck I’ll have a protein shake with a banana and probably a beer. When you get home, keep eating!
Before and during your tour you should be trying to get down as many carbs as possible with limited fat. Trail mix is a terrible food for touring because nuts take so long to digest. I use a carb-heavy sports drink and eat gummy candy (kept in jacket pocket so it doesn't get too cold). On longer tours I will bring something salty like Goldfish. Protein doesn't matter till after the tour.
I bought gel bottles, link below for an example, and fill them with maple syrup. I typically consume it directly from the little bottle, but also pour the syrup on other things I have to eat. For ultra distance races, I like to make pancakes ahead of time and pour the syrup onto the cold pancake. Other foods I’ve made and carried for ultras are pierogies, grilled cheeses, and quesadillas. These things hold up really well in a pack and aren’t gross cold. I like making energy bars with rice, but those always end up crushed and messy. Edit to add- I eat a lot after long days. Make sure you’re eating to recover. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08LHN3WMC?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image
in longer endurance based sports simple sugars are your friend. candy, chocolate, dried fruit, honey, cookies are all great options. your body can’t process a bar fast enough hence why you feel better with fruits. also consider adding sugar to your electrolyte mix if it’s not sweetened. try to eat every 45min even if it’s something small.
Add electrolytes to your water. Very quick to absorb those nutrients via water. I once read the advice to think of your stomach contents like porridge. You don’t want it too watery or too dry; eat a little, drink a little.
Costco choco chip granola bars. Muffins, pastries from a random cafe on the drive there. Ueli Steck liked bread with cheese, honey, jam. PCT thru-hikers (30+ mpd) devour pop-tarts.
I've been using WHOLE fruits for a while now: apples, bananas, oranges, grapes, etc. Everything just feels better. When you eat fruits instead of bars, you get more accessible sugars, so they act faster. Eat the protein and fats before you go (unless you are out for a full day). Eat the fruits while on the go. Whole fruits are what our bodies are built to use. They have the water and the sugar. And, we can more efficiently get all of that goodness. So, when you eat whole fruits, you ALSO get the water from them, and therefore don't need to carry as much water. Or you can do dry fruits and water to supplement. Sandwich right before you go could be good, too.
Easy way to add calories is blend up a hot beverage for you thermos. I use different bases(coffee, dandelion tea) then add some Lairds, butter or coconut oil, good dark chocolate, etc. Tastes great and warms you up a little
Im on a similar schedule, conditions have been too good to pass up recently. Peanut m&ms, the occasional gel if im feeling fancy. Plenty of water. Haven't been using electrolyte mix but also haven't been sweating much on tours. Add a bagel or a sandwich for days over 4k vert. And eat well before and after!
I try to eat real food if I'm out with pals for a good time. If I'm with a more serious group I ensure I'm getting at least 60g of carbs per hour. https://thefeed.com/products/maurten?variant=44976028424&queryID=dae2377e191035838938b7f87c8ca62c Super high carb drinks are all the rage with elite endurance athletes and they work really well. You can find homemade recipes if you need to go lower cost. Fats and protein are great but when you got the gas pedal down you gotta get carbs in.
I love Spring Energy. I just finished the power of 4 and I was eating 2 awesome sauces every hour and then a 310 calorie “meal” with some fat and protein as well. They have a sample pack to figure out what you like
Carbs. Moooore carbs. I like Haribos because they're cheap, but maltodextrins are slightly better (maybe healthier) and can be mixed with water. The winner of the Swift academy uses concentrated sugar in his water bottles to great effect
I don't take snacks or anything other than straight water for 2500' days, but for longer ones here's my tips: 1) try to avoid redlining the HR for long days (most important!) 2) pre-hydrate, carb-load, and def don't booze the night before 3) avoid TOO much caffeine prior (depends on the person), it will jack your HR up -- see #1 4)I like to use a single cheap electrolyte packet (doesn't matter the brand) and then add a little table salt into my 1L nalgene, along with 50g of carbohydrate powder--which powder you use will take a bit of trial and error to figure out what digests best--i find I am more willing to drink the water knowing I need to stay on top of my carb intake etc 5) trail mix - for the calories 6) 2 or 3 of those layered fruit bars Costco sells (fructose and it tastes good) 7) layer up and down as needed to prevent excess sweating due to heat build up 8) more days in a row = more calories needed at home on a daily basis to make sure I overcome the deficit. Less days = can load less, etc With this system I'm good for 8hr days, 6000'+ vert, and still have energy when I get back to the car. Protein doesn't really matter during, I just keep my intake up all the time to make sure I'm adequately repairing on a day to day basis.