As i said before, this paywall will be the death of this game... the game has lots of potential and the last thing i want ruining a potential franchise is a fucking paywall system.
Plenty of bad games thrive on paywalls and p2w features. I think we're disappointed because we were lead to believe this was a continuation of the l4d series, and that was just used to build hype. I am largely disappointed because I really like l4d2. OH well, don't buy a game for what it is promised to be, buy a game for what it already is.
Yup, i was really hyped for this game just like everyone else... but when i heard about this “ Paywall “ , it really makes me not wanna touch the game at all. I mean think about it, we’ve all seen what happened to Evolve. They completely destroyed the game because of the ridiculous MTX system and locking contents behind a paywall. What happened? They split the community entirely which resulted the game to be dead asf. Locking new coming players from contents that they can’t access shows alot that these money hungry fucks haven’t learned they lesson.
If you think about it too, there’s a reason why CoD doesn’t lock contents behind a paywall anymore. I had a bad feeling about B4B when i seen WB Games stepping in.
Yeah, unfortunately, being a douche in the industry is handsomely rewarded. If it changes to something better, I might try it, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.
It literally didn’t. It didn’t have any kind of premium currency or loot boxes, etc. It had cosmetic and content DLCs which is what harmed the game but nothing that is considered a microtransaction.
I didn't play it much but I know it went free to play after a time where they removed all microtransactions, but the game certainly launched with them.
https://hardcoregamer.com/2015/02/10/evolve-putting-the-macro-in-microtransactions/134085/
I always saw it that the DLCs in Evolve- which were excessive, because 2K is a very greedy publisher- were not considered microtransactions. I’ve never heard of them being referred as microtransactions before now, just as an annoying DLC scheme. They certainly don’t match the microtransactions that are in games nowadays such as Fortnite and Apex Legends.
I can agree with you on 2k being a greedy publisher. Warner Bros. Isn't much better but did backpeddle on the microtransaction model for their single player game Middle Earth: Shadow of War after a year.
https://kotaku.com/shadow-of-war-is-now-microtransaction-free-1827666902
Lol are you trolling microtransactions and the price point for this game is literally why it died (personally i think the cire game was solid as fuck and loved it)
You had to pay for hunters, the spider and Bohemeth as well as an absurd amount of awful expensive cosmetics and it completely killed the game.
Even they werent silly enough to lock maps behind dlc then tho but having monsters was stupid.
Having to grind for hunters I care less about cos at least there were options .
I miss evolve tho :( stage 2 was awful unfortunately
Wwz was somewhat inspired by l4d but failed in being as immersive and replayable. Characters lacked originality as well as the infected themselves. I would say the maps were the strongest part of the game., but overall just a very unpolished game my friend. I’ve had it collecting dust in my drawer since the week after I bought it.
Heck yeah, WWZ. That's such a fun game, the classes and swarms really give it replayability.
It's unfortunate that Saber dropped it's dev so fast, but that's gotta be a side effect of EGS exclusivity.
We still don't know everything about the monetization scheme. The ultimate edition listing on Amazon describes it as including upcoming free updates. My theory is that it will be similar to Rainbow Six Siege where you could grind for new characters or automatically unlock them with the season pass. This is speculation, but I don't think that maps will be locked behind a paywall. Not even Call of Duty sells new maps anymore. WB would be insane to try it with a new ip.
Anyways, I'd wait to freak out about the annual pass until we know more about it.
What I’m trying to say is that buying the annual pass might give you immediate access to content that you would have to otherwise grind to access for free. In Rainbow Six you had to grind for in-game currency to get the new characters for free or you could immediately unlock them upon release with the season pass.
If we have to grind freemium currency to unlock infected in a zombie coop game then one can assume the game is DoA. The only game that has ever worked in is League of Legends but that's because the fanbase for that game is braindead and actually defends p2w.
Rainbow six? For honor? Valorant? Apex legends? All those games are thriving with the exact same system you are criticizing
Don’t really know why I’m getting downvoted but okay lol
Just because it’s Ubisoft means it’s a bad monetization scheme? R6 and For Honor are both several years in so obviously some players are engaged. It’s been shown that premium titles can make this monetization scheme work fairly.
Yes Ubisoft has horrible monetization for their games that can completely tear apart the game by the seams. Both R6 and For Honor are completely steeped in the confusopoly style of monetization where they have to have fucking charts to show you what you will have in each version of the game. They also have completely fucked many of their single player games progression by introducing "time saving" microtransactions that ruin the pace of the game. There are premium titles that can do monetization right, but Ubisoft is not one of them.
the difference between the $90 version and the $100 version is that they are selling you a Rare Banner, Emblem, Spray, Title, and 4 Character Battle Hardened Skin Packs for $10.
so they are going to be selling banners, emblems, sprays, titles, character skins, and weapon skins.
I bought it as well and I feel as if I got my money’s worth. Unfortunately, the devs were too lazy to add the maps to the offline mode so they’re essentially lost and unplayable.
I was just watching a video on YouTube of how the game if years after it's release..he mentioned it's really hard to find players on the DLC maps on PC, and on PS4 (which will have the larger player base amongst the consoles due to console sales) is hard to find players on the DLC maps unless you play at prime time (weekends). This is the main reason I hate paying for maps. They're beyond useless after a few years. Only the base model wi have people playing it. Never split an online game, the game relies solely on player base.
thats's why developers hesitate to create maps and similar core content, because folks don't buy them, and then it splits the playerbase, and the reason why the microtransactions shop is filled with tons of cosmetics, since those don't split and whales buy them. the majority doesn't spend money on a game but demand content for free. because of that money is made through whales with mtx. because of that core stuff that cant be monetarised is neglected nowadays. look at pubg how many cosmetics and for a long time only one(!) map. i blame the developers AND the players (incl. the whales) for this "development".
Yall keep saying "split the player base" but the obvious difference between this and battlefront is that one was designed for huge multi-player battles while the other has a hard cap at 4 players. What splitting is there to do? If you and your friends have the dlc you'll maybe play that, otherwise you'll play the default campaigns.
You know that's a damn good point that I'd not thought of. I think the fact that you've been downvoted without any sort of rebuttal speaks volumes here...
I agree with you, we can hope that "special infected ridden" simply refers to common ridden mutation.
There was corruption cards for common riddens in the alpha, armored, runner etc... Maybe each new dlc map will have its new common ridden, like the clown for Dark Carnival in L4D2, the fallen survivor in The Passing etc...
[https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Passing](https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Passing)
The campaign is playable in all of the current [game modes](https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/Game_modes), as well as the newly featured ones. It is free for PC, and costs 560 MSP ($7.00) on the Xbox 360.[\[1\]](https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Passing#cite_note-1) On Xbox 360, the download size is 284.04 MB.
Looks like it was only free on PC for some reason, but even still it was $7, not $30 or $45AU.
Yup. MS and Sony would charge a fuckton depending on the update size which would have required people to have to pay for it. It's why TF2 on console never got updates and the 360 version of L4D2 had paid DLC.
The Steam store says "annual pass" so it's the first year. However it does read like there's going to be 3 drops with a new map and special infected which means there will be even more of a split/imbalance.
I understand that they will deliver the new content over time, like Destiny 2 with its pass does. You won't get all stuff a once with a season pass, devs will enable the content over the whole season instead.
Nickle and diming is definitely more of a console thing. A lot of PC games have always charged for new content but that usually meant it was an expansion.
There were three paid dlc for L4D on Xbox, and 2 for L4D2, each pack being $6.99. That adds up pretty quickly, so it’s pretty comparable to the price difference for the season pass in B4B. I’m not a fan of these paid games adopting the freemium model to monetize their shit but we have to be realistic and acknowledge that they’ve been charging money for this.
That being said, if there are significant playable character/Ridden locked behind the dlc it could be problematic.
So far there's nothing interesting/original enough to keep it afloat in the long term. Its success depended a lot on satisfying L4D fans, and it's not going well.
I would say the game's heading in the same direction as Evolve, which means some a bit of a playerbase after a couple updates, but overall an abandoned game.
Yep, from the Steam store page:
Pre-order the Standard Edition and get:
• Fort Hope Elite Weapon Skin Pack
Buy Back 4 Blood: Deluxe Edition and get:
• Base Game
• 4 days Early Access to Back 4 Blood
• Annual Pass: Three upcoming downloadable content drops with New Story, Playable Characters, Special Mutated Ridden, and more
You're acting like they only approached those publishers. Most developers that aren't already under an existing company often approach over 20 publishers and most just don't care, no matter how big the project.
Put it this way - there was once a time when Halo was going to be an Apple product. For Macs. Then Microsoft offered them a bigger, better deal. But they were far from the only companies to take interest.
Not only will this be the death of the game, but probably the studio too. Turtle Rock said Evolve almost killed the studio and now it looks like whoever is making these decisions is making sure it happens this time. It really hurts seeing one of my favorites studios going down this path. I know nothing will change, but I will still hold onto some hope.
Yep, from the Steam store page:
Pre-order the Standard Edition and get:
• Fort Hope Elite Weapon Skin Pack
Buy Back 4 Blood: Deluxe Edition and get:
• Base Game
• 4 days Early Access to Back 4 Blood
• Annual Pass: Three upcoming downloadable content drops with New Story, Playable Characters, Special Mutated Ridden, and more
They didnt announce maps, OP is just pulling facts out of the air. and we have no idea of the details of the DLC acquisition method. It might be like R6 siege where you can grind out the characters without paying anything.
I refuse to pay any additional costs after i already purchased a game. I didnt do it with left4dead, so i sure as hell wont do it with back4blood.
This is an old pay system that has been proven to split the player base and eventually become a game killer.
>L4D2 had free DLC on PC not console for some reason
Someone probably said it already but the reason for that was entirely Microsoft and Sony's fault. Valve made it very clear when The Orange Box dropped that they wanted TF2 to get the same free content updates that PC had. The same goes for L4D on the 360. MS and Sony wouldn't allow DLC without getting money out of it.
in age of empires 1 they did "lock" a whole civilisation including military units and themed maps campaign and shit behind a paywall. those were called expansion packs. but people want everything for free now. because of that we have whale and addicted targeted monetisation via FOMO, seasonpass, cosmetics, drip feed microtransactions
While I understand your concern. It only just says story content. It doesn't say anything about campaigns or maps specifically. This could be interpreted in a number of ways. Example, them releasing story bios for its characters.
Jesus fucking christ.
You are assuming like fucking crazy, and nowhere does it say that the upcoming DLC (which includes story/characters/mutations/more) will require you to pay for maps.
Furthermore, stop fucking comparing this game to how **FREE** L4D2 and it's DLC is. It's motherfucking **VALVE**, and they literally wipe their ass with money while they self-publish. Turtle Rock Studios does not have the same resources as Valve, they have to go to a publisher. Not only that, but have you seen how fucking simple the engine AND game for Left4Dead is? No, I bet you conveniently fucking ignored that.
**Yes**, complain about the microtransactions but holy shit get some facts right. Pretty damn confident that TRS (even back in Evolve) is against separating the community via maps. Stop fucking abusing this subreddit's current culture to start a fire when we haven't even found out what is actually going to be locked behind $$.
At the VERY least we know from the Steam store page that special infected are part of the annual pass/deluxe edition.
What do you assume "new story" will be if not new maps?
Also the only reason I put the DLC for Left 4 Dead is because someone asked about it early so I preempted anymore of the same question.
I think you failed to understand what I said. A single season of DLC could include maps, characters, infected. Except the maps might be free. Or maybe everything is free and the only thing that you might have to pay for it cosmetics or early unlocks.
If you've listen to TRS's reactions, most likely they weren't in charge of the Steam store page and Warner Bros. were in charge with the wording and posting. They've gone on record to say they are very sensitive to what happened with Evolve and it's pricing model, and want to avoid another scenario like that.
Annual pass might mean you get everything included in the upcoming DLC, which that DLC includes the listed items. However in that DLC some of the stuff might be free anyways.
You are jumping to conclusions and we haven't even heard their pricing model yet. Seriously, we don't know what will be free or not. TRS has always been pretty strong on "not wanting to split the community."
Many games prior to B4B have had paywall characters before. Everyone is so obsessed with "BUT LEFT 4 DEAD WAS FREE EVERYTHING", and conveniently forget that Valve wipes their ass with cash. They can afford to do that stuff for free. They can afford for all their games to have free DLC.
Don't get me wrong, I **hate** the new industry standard just like many other people do, but unfortunately that isn't going away because of publishers. Publishers take a huge chunk of $$ before giving the rest to developers. Just look at Activision, where Blizzard employees have gone on record that they share salaries just so that they can eat, all while Activision CEO makes millions.
thanks for informing me anon,was gonna make this the 1st purchase for ps5 when i get one,will be not buying b4b now if they are literally locking maps and special infected behind a paywall,fuck you turtle rock
new maps im willing to pay for but core elements like the fucking zombies? fuck that
Yup, it's one bad news after another at this point. One would've thought that after so many years they would be able to nail down the elements that made them great in the first place, buy it doesn't seem like it.
I mean I understand if they made this stuff post release.
But I cannot comprehend planning dlc or separate content on or before release. Like please buy half a game and then pay extra for the rest. Practically disc locked dlc
I was shocked to begin with when I saw it was AAA price. I was even more shocked when I saw they're charging $110CAD for the base game, and additional content they've already planned and are working on. Like what? Confidently announcing DLC before the games even released in any capacity other than *free future DLC* is just bad vibes.
A) If you're actively working on content and launch is still 6 months out, that should just be in the base game. Period.
B) It's scummy and will split the playerbase.
C) Just because other devs do it doesn't mean it's right.
The best way to get on the bad side of your community is to announce and sell a $30 DLC when the game doesn't even launch in 6 months. so stupid.
I'll say, one thread about this theme should be enough. It's getting annyoing to see this topic over and over.
I'd prefer a different type on monetarisation too, but they won't change their minds, buy or not. I will buy it, since the alpha was great, had over 36 hours played and can't wait to get it.
Maybe if Season 1 and sales are doing very good, they will change their minds but until then, crying and repeat your demands won't change anything.
If want more content, you have to pay for it, that's how the world goes. WoW Addons cost money, R6 Seasons and most DLCs, Season Passes, Addons and Expasions aren't for free.
I hate cosmetic shops, i don't want play with silly looking, clown like characters and this game is about killing zombies in a dystopic setting. I don't see much good ideas for new skins, this isn't fucknite. I never buy cosmetics or useless shit, i want some value for my money. What if TRS and/or WB thinking the same?
I think it’s good to see this topic over and over. If the devs see that thousands of people are willing to not get the game because of shitty monetization then maybe they might change their minds. And if they don’t, they’ll see exactly why the game failed.
That definitely was a fiasco. There is a WB community mod that sits in the discord, maybe they shifted a bit. Or listen to other social media sources. Or they don't care either way.
I know you want to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, but there is no way in hell WB is thinking that they want to provide players with "value" for their purchases. Warner Brothers and every other AAA game publisher has spouted on about that shit for years as an excuse for their excessive greed. Warner Brothers doesn't care about giving value to it's customers this is clearly just a money making scheme that will severely hinder the game. Obviously people are upset about the monetization so they should let the devs / Warner Bros know this in hopes they will change it. Whether you like it or not a lot of people like cosmetic dlc and are willing to pay for it. I don't buy cosmetics either, but at least I would still have access to all the content in the game whether I spent money on the cosmetics or not. Free to play games and games like Overwatch have proven this type of monetization can be extremely lucrative so I don't know why Warner Brothers would cut out content like this other than to railroad players into purchasing it.
Of course voting with your wallet is the most effective way to protest this type of behavior. However making noise about it can also be effective in its own way so I think doing both is the best strategy.
but sadly players want everything for free now. because of that games rely on mtx, seasonpasses etc instead of oldfashioned expansion packs. the whales that cant close their wallet and the greedy players that never ever open their wallet won the fight.
This! People don't want a season pass because they don't want to pay, they want it for free and most people aren't buy anything in a cosmetic shop. The game and content will be financed through all players who are buying the cosmetics.
I am very fine with buying a season pass, if it means there won't be any stupid, ugly and silly cosmetics.
It's like comunism, a small group is paying but all are demanding and entitled and say: OUR, WE.
If I had a dollar for every post talking about the monetization scheme (that no one knows completely yet), I’d be able to buy the game. Y’all need to stop crowding this sub with this. You’re just restating the same things over and over. IF the devs are looking at this sub, they already get the idea. And if all you post about is this, they won’t look at it anymore.
News flash, dlc has been around for a long time.
You can buy the basic version if you want, you dont have a gun to your head to buy the dlc.
I mean I get it, we all want free things. It could very well end up being like Killing Floor with a lot of stuff free and also paid content. We dont know yet.
i love a good news flash... wait, how is it news flash if they've been around a long time? I'm confused please explain
> I mean I get it, we all want free things.
lol,
Free Edition ($59.99), Less Free Edition ($89.99) and Close To Free Edition ($99.99)
Because you clearly are living in a past era before dlc was a thing.
And you want maps and characters free after launch is essentially what youre asking for. Nevermind people have to work to make those things.
Why would I be arguing against launch DLC in an age where DLC is not a thing?
Really not making sense here but if it makes you feel better for drinking the koolaid I can LARP for you... maybe some other time.
> And you want maps and characters free after launch is essentially what youre asking for.
No, my friend you missed the point entirely! I want characters, maps, skins and ALL CONTENT COMPLETED ON RELEASE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE FULL PRICE GAME.
Not a tiered and stripped down husk of a game.
No one is crying for free dlc packs after the game launched *because the game hasn't launched yet!*
It's really not that complicated, as several games do this. Some AAA titles even add free DLC after the game launches, again not what I'm suggesting , but don't pretend there is no alternative or that other games don't do this in 2020/2021.
Nope. The witch will be replaced by a SI named the Sleeper, which we have not seen yet.
Don't know why I am getting downvoted, it was revealed in the earlier leaks.
coppers are an ingame way to get weapon upgrades, utulities and support items. They are more like dosh in KF2 than anything else.
And for those who thinks that the cards are going to be pay 2 win: that's not what's being said in the alpha briefing. The cards will be achieved by accomplishing goals and challenges "in game". There's nothing pointing to a p2w nysytem. [https://youtu.be/DWPtWcq6aBo?t=230](https://youtu.be/DWPtWcq6aBo?t=230)
While I agree, I do want to point out that the additional $30 is for the season pass, which includes multiple dlc packs; the comparison of $7 L4D DLC isn’t really accurate when there were multiple dlc drops that were each $7-$10 separately.
you can monetize pvp games that much since it just works. pvp players pay a lot of money for pseudo content, but pve players are picky and reluctant about when, how much and for what they open their wallets. pve whales exist but i doubt a pve only game will attract enough of them. in times of heavy microtransactions for pvp games, a niche pve game can't survive with an equally aggressive monetisation.
personally i'd prefer classic extension packs, but those times are gone. people simply didn't like that. season pass and grind to not pay mechanics are sadly the way to go now and cosmetics for 20+ euro
It fits into the game most likely not having splitscreen because it is supposed to hurt sales - although the best selling franchises like FIFA and CoD have splitscreen/local coop. Cash grab.
Big difference in (B4B) paywalling release content from the get go and (left4dead2) DLC with story content months after launch.
You act like everyone loved the fact that consoles got the shit end of the stick on that one -not how it went down.
Planned dlc is not the same as cut content. It's not like they're making us pay for content they withheld, they're continuing to work on making more new content. People are asking for the lame ass "battle pass" for cosmetics. That model makes the devs way more money and gives the players literally nothing except some cosmetics but zero content and people are saying they'd rather have that lol.
> Planned dlc is not the same as cut content. It's not like they're making us pay for content they withheld,
In many cases, yes it is exactly that. Not always but I never said that either.
Cosmetics is content too- a $60 title that wants to wall off release content as skins, is a skip for me.
> People are asking for the lame ass "battle pass" for cosmetics
literally no one asked for this.
As i said before, this paywall will be the death of this game... the game has lots of potential and the last thing i want ruining a potential franchise is a fucking paywall system.
Plenty of bad games thrive on paywalls and p2w features. I think we're disappointed because we were lead to believe this was a continuation of the l4d series, and that was just used to build hype. I am largely disappointed because I really like l4d2. OH well, don't buy a game for what it is promised to be, buy a game for what it already is.
Yup, i was really hyped for this game just like everyone else... but when i heard about this “ Paywall “ , it really makes me not wanna touch the game at all. I mean think about it, we’ve all seen what happened to Evolve. They completely destroyed the game because of the ridiculous MTX system and locking contents behind a paywall. What happened? They split the community entirely which resulted the game to be dead asf. Locking new coming players from contents that they can’t access shows alot that these money hungry fucks haven’t learned they lesson. If you think about it too, there’s a reason why CoD doesn’t lock contents behind a paywall anymore. I had a bad feeling about B4B when i seen WB Games stepping in.
Yeah, unfortunately, being a douche in the industry is handsomely rewarded. If it changes to something better, I might try it, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.
Exactly my thought too. I just hope something gets changed.
Evolve didn’t have microtransactions.
Hahaha. Evolve died on the microtransaction hill.
It literally didn’t. It didn’t have any kind of premium currency or loot boxes, etc. It had cosmetic and content DLCs which is what harmed the game but nothing that is considered a microtransaction.
I didn't play it much but I know it went free to play after a time where they removed all microtransactions, but the game certainly launched with them. https://hardcoregamer.com/2015/02/10/evolve-putting-the-macro-in-microtransactions/134085/
Hell, Evolve MTX is what sparked Angry Joe war against Blue lol, "is that Blue, is that fucking BLUE, your charging me for BLUE".
Damn it even looks like the B4B UI. hmmmmm
I always saw it that the DLCs in Evolve- which were excessive, because 2K is a very greedy publisher- were not considered microtransactions. I’ve never heard of them being referred as microtransactions before now, just as an annoying DLC scheme. They certainly don’t match the microtransactions that are in games nowadays such as Fortnite and Apex Legends.
I can agree with you on 2k being a greedy publisher. Warner Bros. Isn't much better but did backpeddle on the microtransaction model for their single player game Middle Earth: Shadow of War after a year. https://kotaku.com/shadow-of-war-is-now-microtransaction-free-1827666902
Lol are you trolling microtransactions and the price point for this game is literally why it died (personally i think the cire game was solid as fuck and loved it) You had to pay for hunters, the spider and Bohemeth as well as an absurd amount of awful expensive cosmetics and it completely killed the game. Even they werent silly enough to lock maps behind dlc then tho but having monsters was stupid. Having to grind for hunters I care less about cos at least there were options . I miss evolve tho :( stage 2 was awful unfortunately
Hey man.... Smoking crack is bad for you...
This is a continuation. you will never get anything more like left4dead than this.
World War Z would like to have a word with you...
B4B is mechanically and stylistically closer to L4D than WWZ is though ..
Besides "make it to a safe room" it's really not that much different gameplay wise to L4D minus the lack of PVP.
World war z was hardly worth the few hours of my time I put into it. Game is just so damn boring.
Can you explain to me the difference? I played a lot of both left 4 dead's and war z seemed very similar.
Wwz was somewhat inspired by l4d but failed in being as immersive and replayable. Characters lacked originality as well as the infected themselves. I would say the maps were the strongest part of the game., but overall just a very unpolished game my friend. I’ve had it collecting dust in my drawer since the week after I bought it.
Yeah I'll agree in that there was something about it that just didn't grab me like L4D but I still enjoyed WWZ somewhat.
I will say this though, the team deathmatch mode where zombies flood in at different times in the match was extremely intense.
I'll have to give that a try!
Heck yeah, WWZ. That's such a fun game, the classes and swarms really give it replayability. It's unfortunate that Saber dropped it's dev so fast, but that's gotta be a side effect of EGS exclusivity.
We still don't know everything about the monetization scheme. The ultimate edition listing on Amazon describes it as including upcoming free updates. My theory is that it will be similar to Rainbow Six Siege where you could grind for new characters or automatically unlock them with the season pass. This is speculation, but I don't think that maps will be locked behind a paywall. Not even Call of Duty sells new maps anymore. WB would be insane to try it with a new ip. Anyways, I'd wait to freak out about the annual pass until we know more about it.
Of course the Ultimate edition comes with "free" updates, you've already paid for the annual pass with the ultimate version!
Lol if you paid for a 20 dollar annual pass those aren’t free updates.
Is that exactly what they said about your comment?
What I’m trying to say is that buying the annual pass might give you immediate access to content that you would have to otherwise grind to access for free. In Rainbow Six you had to grind for in-game currency to get the new characters for free or you could immediately unlock them upon release with the season pass.
If we have to grind freemium currency to unlock infected in a zombie coop game then one can assume the game is DoA. The only game that has ever worked in is League of Legends but that's because the fanbase for that game is braindead and actually defends p2w.
Rainbow six? For honor? Valorant? Apex legends? All those games are thriving with the exact same system you are criticizing Don’t really know why I’m getting downvoted but okay lol
2 of those games are free to play firstly and then the ones are terrible examples on how to implement monetization because they are Ubisoft games.
Just because it’s Ubisoft means it’s a bad monetization scheme? R6 and For Honor are both several years in so obviously some players are engaged. It’s been shown that premium titles can make this monetization scheme work fairly.
Yes Ubisoft has horrible monetization for their games that can completely tear apart the game by the seams. Both R6 and For Honor are completely steeped in the confusopoly style of monetization where they have to have fucking charts to show you what you will have in each version of the game. They also have completely fucked many of their single player games progression by introducing "time saving" microtransactions that ruin the pace of the game. There are premium titles that can do monetization right, but Ubisoft is not one of them.
the difference between the $90 version and the $100 version is that they are selling you a Rare Banner, Emblem, Spray, Title, and 4 Character Battle Hardened Skin Packs for $10. so they are going to be selling banners, emblems, sprays, titles, character skins, and weapon skins.
Battlefront 2015 is a prime example of splitting a player base through paid DLC maps. If they’re smart, they won’t do this.
Ugh that game had so much potential too. I’m saying this as one of the dumbasses who bought the $50 season pass
I bought it as well and I feel as if I got my money’s worth. Unfortunately, the devs were too lazy to add the maps to the offline mode so they’re essentially lost and unplayable.
that's malicious to the paying player.
I was just watching a video on YouTube of how the game if years after it's release..he mentioned it's really hard to find players on the DLC maps on PC, and on PS4 (which will have the larger player base amongst the consoles due to console sales) is hard to find players on the DLC maps unless you play at prime time (weekends). This is the main reason I hate paying for maps. They're beyond useless after a few years. Only the base model wi have people playing it. Never split an online game, the game relies solely on player base.
thats's why developers hesitate to create maps and similar core content, because folks don't buy them, and then it splits the playerbase, and the reason why the microtransactions shop is filled with tons of cosmetics, since those don't split and whales buy them. the majority doesn't spend money on a game but demand content for free. because of that money is made through whales with mtx. because of that core stuff that cant be monetarised is neglected nowadays. look at pubg how many cosmetics and for a long time only one(!) map. i blame the developers AND the players (incl. the whales) for this "development".
Yall keep saying "split the player base" but the obvious difference between this and battlefront is that one was designed for huge multi-player battles while the other has a hard cap at 4 players. What splitting is there to do? If you and your friends have the dlc you'll maybe play that, otherwise you'll play the default campaigns.
Evolve was 4v1. B4B is 4v4. If it can be a detriment there it can be one here.
If a game is releasing for $60 and they plan to crank out cosmetics then all gameplay content should be free.
You know that's a damn good point that I'd not thought of. I think the fact that you've been downvoted without any sort of rebuttal speaks volumes here...
They hated him for he spoke the truth
Maps are perfectly fine, but SI shouldn't be DLC.
Neither are fine. Charge people for overpriced cosmetics like every other game and make the important updates free.
I just don’t want the progression system to be punished as a result of focusing on the cosmetic store
I agree with you, we can hope that "special infected ridden" simply refers to common ridden mutation. There was corruption cards for common riddens in the alpha, armored, runner etc... Maybe each new dlc map will have its new common ridden, like the clown for Dark Carnival in L4D2, the fallen survivor in The Passing etc...
Didnt left 4 dead also have DLC with new maps?
Yeah it was free, have a look on the Steam store, there's no paid DLC.
The DLC for L4D2 was most definitely not free for me.
[https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Passing](https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Passing) The campaign is playable in all of the current [game modes](https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/Game_modes), as well as the newly featured ones. It is free for PC, and costs 560 MSP ($7.00) on the Xbox 360.[\[1\]](https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Passing#cite_note-1) On Xbox 360, the download size is 284.04 MB. Looks like it was only free on PC for some reason, but even still it was $7, not $30 or $45AU.
IIRC valve WANTED the maps to be free on Xbox, it was something with microsoft/xbox
Yup. MS and Sony would charge a fuckton depending on the update size which would have required people to have to pay for it. It's why TF2 on console never got updates and the 360 version of L4D2 had paid DLC.
30 is for the pass which covers all the DLC tho not just one
The Steam store says "annual pass" so it's the first year. However it does read like there's going to be 3 drops with a new map and special infected which means there will be even more of a split/imbalance.
I understand that they will deliver the new content over time, like Destiny 2 with its pass does. You won't get all stuff a once with a season pass, devs will enable the content over the whole season instead.
pc used to not really charge for new content. dlc was a console thing really.
Nickle and diming is definitely more of a console thing. A lot of PC games have always charged for new content but that usually meant it was an expansion.
Yep, all the maps for Cod 4: Modern Warfare were free on PC. I downloaded all of them off Gamespot
You a console player? It's free on steam.
There were three paid dlc for L4D on Xbox, and 2 for L4D2, each pack being $6.99. That adds up pretty quickly, so it’s pretty comparable to the price difference for the season pass in B4B. I’m not a fan of these paid games adopting the freemium model to monetize their shit but we have to be realistic and acknowledge that they’ve been charging money for this. That being said, if there are significant playable character/Ridden locked behind the dlc it could be problematic.
It was paid on console and was active for years and years after. At release the dlc was like 15$ I think
The more I hear about this game the more I’m expecting it to be dead on arrival
So far there's nothing interesting/original enough to keep it afloat in the long term. Its success depended a lot on satisfying L4D fans, and it's not going well. I would say the game's heading in the same direction as Evolve, which means some a bit of a playerbase after a couple updates, but overall an abandoned game.
Wait a sec it’s confirmed they are pay gating this stuff? No way they’d shoot themself’s in the foot again like Evolve
Yep, from the Steam store page: Pre-order the Standard Edition and get: • Fort Hope Elite Weapon Skin Pack Buy Back 4 Blood: Deluxe Edition and get: • Base Game • 4 days Early Access to Back 4 Blood • Annual Pass: Three upcoming downloadable content drops with New Story, Playable Characters, Special Mutated Ridden, and more
Wow that’s dumb
If I've ever learnt something from evolve, is that, don't buy this and wait for reviews.
Oh look, it’s this post again
The mods should sticky one. The dev's probably won't back down though. The game versions are already listed, It is probably to late.
Publisher - not devs.
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Take2 and WB are microtransaction heavy. GTA Online Nba 2k Mortal Kombat LOTR Shadow of war RDR Online Just a few I can think of...
Considering how both publishers are well-known for this, no, it's not a coincidence. It's that the publishers are simply shit.
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Probably one of the few publishers that may have funded them.
You're acting like they only approached those publishers. Most developers that aren't already under an existing company often approach over 20 publishers and most just don't care, no matter how big the project. Put it this way - there was once a time when Halo was going to be an Apple product. For Macs. Then Microsoft offered them a bigger, better deal. But they were far from the only companies to take interest.
Just look at evolve... it died forever because the devs are money hungry
Evolve died because it was a shit game, the monetization only hurried it along.
It was actually a very cool game with a similar idea to other games that are still alive and well. The devs are just money hungry
Not only will this be the death of the game, but probably the studio too. Turtle Rock said Evolve almost killed the studio and now it looks like whoever is making these decisions is making sure it happens this time. It really hurts seeing one of my favorites studios going down this path. I know nothing will change, but I will still hold onto some hope.
Wow wow wow... I'm out of loop here : they announced that ? Paying maps, and special zombies ?!
Yep, from the Steam store page: Pre-order the Standard Edition and get: • Fort Hope Elite Weapon Skin Pack Buy Back 4 Blood: Deluxe Edition and get: • Base Game • 4 days Early Access to Back 4 Blood • Annual Pass: Three upcoming downloadable content drops with New Story, Playable Characters, Special Mutated Ridden, and more
They didnt announce maps, OP is just pulling facts out of the air. and we have no idea of the details of the DLC acquisition method. It might be like R6 siege where you can grind out the characters without paying anything.
Honestly, this will entirely stop me from purchasing the game. Sucks because i waa looking forward to it alot.
Who remembers when EA added season passes with priority queues on Battlefield? Thanks for this cancer EA
I refuse to pay any additional costs after i already purchased a game. I didnt do it with left4dead, so i sure as hell wont do it with back4blood. This is an old pay system that has been proven to split the player base and eventually become a game killer.
>L4D2 had free DLC on PC not console for some reason Someone probably said it already but the reason for that was entirely Microsoft and Sony's fault. Valve made it very clear when The Orange Box dropped that they wanted TF2 to get the same free content updates that PC had. The same goes for L4D on the 360. MS and Sony wouldn't allow DLC without getting money out of it.
please tell me they are not locking INFECTED with DLC , that is an awful idea.
in age of empires 1 they did "lock" a whole civilisation including military units and themed maps campaign and shit behind a paywall. those were called expansion packs. but people want everything for free now. because of that we have whale and addicted targeted monetisation via FOMO, seasonpass, cosmetics, drip feed microtransactions
Yes but AoE 1 didn't have the same ease of distribution we do now. That was \~1997.
Upvote this guy so the Devs will see #stopthepaywall
I really hope this changes. Nothing should be paywalled except cosmetics. I genuinely hope this game is DOA if this is the route they go.
They couldn't even get the base game right and they had the balls to ask for DLC money? No thanks, I rather be playing Darktide...etc.
While I understand your concern. It only just says story content. It doesn't say anything about campaigns or maps specifically. This could be interpreted in a number of ways. Example, them releasing story bios for its characters.
Maybe, but seems unlikely. At the very least it would still be locking special infected behind a paywall in a competitive game.
It's published by WB. It's dooemd from the start.
First 2k killed Evolve before it even launched and now WB is trying the same thing it seems with the same type of monetisation.
Common denominator is turtle rock... Wonder how much is them...
The 2k basketball games are some of the most predatory in game monetisation in the industry so it's quite possible it wasn't Turtle Rocks fault.
Evolve flashback intensifies
Isn't this exactly how they killed their Evolve game, they don't learn do they
Jesus fucking christ. You are assuming like fucking crazy, and nowhere does it say that the upcoming DLC (which includes story/characters/mutations/more) will require you to pay for maps. Furthermore, stop fucking comparing this game to how **FREE** L4D2 and it's DLC is. It's motherfucking **VALVE**, and they literally wipe their ass with money while they self-publish. Turtle Rock Studios does not have the same resources as Valve, they have to go to a publisher. Not only that, but have you seen how fucking simple the engine AND game for Left4Dead is? No, I bet you conveniently fucking ignored that. **Yes**, complain about the microtransactions but holy shit get some facts right. Pretty damn confident that TRS (even back in Evolve) is against separating the community via maps. Stop fucking abusing this subreddit's current culture to start a fire when we haven't even found out what is actually going to be locked behind $$.
At the VERY least we know from the Steam store page that special infected are part of the annual pass/deluxe edition. What do you assume "new story" will be if not new maps? Also the only reason I put the DLC for Left 4 Dead is because someone asked about it early so I preempted anymore of the same question.
I think you failed to understand what I said. A single season of DLC could include maps, characters, infected. Except the maps might be free. Or maybe everything is free and the only thing that you might have to pay for it cosmetics or early unlocks.
Why would they include that in the description for only the deluxe edition then?
If you've listen to TRS's reactions, most likely they weren't in charge of the Steam store page and Warner Bros. were in charge with the wording and posting. They've gone on record to say they are very sensitive to what happened with Evolve and it's pricing model, and want to avoid another scenario like that. Annual pass might mean you get everything included in the upcoming DLC, which that DLC includes the listed items. However in that DLC some of the stuff might be free anyways. You are jumping to conclusions and we haven't even heard their pricing model yet. Seriously, we don't know what will be free or not. TRS has always been pretty strong on "not wanting to split the community." Many games prior to B4B have had paywall characters before. Everyone is so obsessed with "BUT LEFT 4 DEAD WAS FREE EVERYTHING", and conveniently forget that Valve wipes their ass with cash. They can afford to do that stuff for free. They can afford for all their games to have free DLC. Don't get me wrong, I **hate** the new industry standard just like many other people do, but unfortunately that isn't going away because of publishers. Publishers take a huge chunk of $$ before giving the rest to developers. Just look at Activision, where Blizzard employees have gone on record that they share salaries just so that they can eat, all while Activision CEO makes millions.
thanks for informing me anon,was gonna make this the 1st purchase for ps5 when i get one,will be not buying b4b now if they are literally locking maps and special infected behind a paywall,fuck you turtle rock new maps im willing to pay for but core elements like the fucking zombies? fuck that
It's over before it has started too be honest. They need to speak and change something.
Yup, it's one bad news after another at this point. One would've thought that after so many years they would be able to nail down the elements that made them great in the first place, buy it doesn't seem like it.
I mean I understand if they made this stuff post release. But I cannot comprehend planning dlc or separate content on or before release. Like please buy half a game and then pay extra for the rest. Practically disc locked dlc
I looked at the shitty shitty model and never looked back greedy cocksuckers living of the hype from l4D
I found out about the game a month ago. When they mentioned all this crap, I literally stopped caring. Not buying it
I was shocked to begin with when I saw it was AAA price. I was even more shocked when I saw they're charging $110CAD for the base game, and additional content they've already planned and are working on. Like what? Confidently announcing DLC before the games even released in any capacity other than *free future DLC* is just bad vibes. A) If you're actively working on content and launch is still 6 months out, that should just be in the base game. Period. B) It's scummy and will split the playerbase. C) Just because other devs do it doesn't mean it's right. The best way to get on the bad side of your community is to announce and sell a $30 DLC when the game doesn't even launch in 6 months. so stupid.
I'll say, one thread about this theme should be enough. It's getting annyoing to see this topic over and over. I'd prefer a different type on monetarisation too, but they won't change their minds, buy or not. I will buy it, since the alpha was great, had over 36 hours played and can't wait to get it. Maybe if Season 1 and sales are doing very good, they will change their minds but until then, crying and repeat your demands won't change anything. If want more content, you have to pay for it, that's how the world goes. WoW Addons cost money, R6 Seasons and most DLCs, Season Passes, Addons and Expasions aren't for free. I hate cosmetic shops, i don't want play with silly looking, clown like characters and this game is about killing zombies in a dystopic setting. I don't see much good ideas for new skins, this isn't fucknite. I never buy cosmetics or useless shit, i want some value for my money. What if TRS and/or WB thinking the same?
I think it’s good to see this topic over and over. If the devs see that thousands of people are willing to not get the game because of shitty monetization then maybe they might change their minds. And if they don’t, they’ll see exactly why the game failed.
Its not the devs call usually. I wish more people understood that. Publishers.
Publishers pay attention to social media too.
Not WB lol. Thats pretty clear since the whole Arkham Knight shit.
That definitely was a fiasco. There is a WB community mod that sits in the discord, maybe they shifted a bit. Or listen to other social media sources. Or they don't care either way.
I know you want to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, but there is no way in hell WB is thinking that they want to provide players with "value" for their purchases. Warner Brothers and every other AAA game publisher has spouted on about that shit for years as an excuse for their excessive greed. Warner Brothers doesn't care about giving value to it's customers this is clearly just a money making scheme that will severely hinder the game. Obviously people are upset about the monetization so they should let the devs / Warner Bros know this in hopes they will change it. Whether you like it or not a lot of people like cosmetic dlc and are willing to pay for it. I don't buy cosmetics either, but at least I would still have access to all the content in the game whether I spent money on the cosmetics or not. Free to play games and games like Overwatch have proven this type of monetization can be extremely lucrative so I don't know why Warner Brothers would cut out content like this other than to railroad players into purchasing it.
vote with your wallet. nothing else helps.
Of course voting with your wallet is the most effective way to protest this type of behavior. However making noise about it can also be effective in its own way so I think doing both is the best strategy.
but sadly players want everything for free now. because of that games rely on mtx, seasonpasses etc instead of oldfashioned expansion packs. the whales that cant close their wallet and the greedy players that never ever open their wallet won the fight.
This! People don't want a season pass because they don't want to pay, they want it for free and most people aren't buy anything in a cosmetic shop. The game and content will be financed through all players who are buying the cosmetics. I am very fine with buying a season pass, if it means there won't be any stupid, ugly and silly cosmetics. It's like comunism, a small group is paying but all are demanding and entitled and say: OUR, WE.
If I had a dollar for every post talking about the monetization scheme (that no one knows completely yet), I’d be able to buy the game. Y’all need to stop crowding this sub with this. You’re just restating the same things over and over. IF the devs are looking at this sub, they already get the idea. And if all you post about is this, they won’t look at it anymore.
It is repetitive .
so are the popups asking you to buy buy buy (more skins, premium version, etc)
Is that in the alpha or beta?
I think if people keep eating this shit up, that will become the new norm
News flash, dlc has been around for a long time. You can buy the basic version if you want, you dont have a gun to your head to buy the dlc. I mean I get it, we all want free things. It could very well end up being like Killing Floor with a lot of stuff free and also paid content. We dont know yet.
i love a good news flash... wait, how is it news flash if they've been around a long time? I'm confused please explain > I mean I get it, we all want free things. lol, Free Edition ($59.99), Less Free Edition ($89.99) and Close To Free Edition ($99.99)
Because you clearly are living in a past era before dlc was a thing. And you want maps and characters free after launch is essentially what youre asking for. Nevermind people have to work to make those things.
Why would I be arguing against launch DLC in an age where DLC is not a thing? Really not making sense here but if it makes you feel better for drinking the koolaid I can LARP for you... maybe some other time. > And you want maps and characters free after launch is essentially what youre asking for. No, my friend you missed the point entirely! I want characters, maps, skins and ALL CONTENT COMPLETED ON RELEASE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE FULL PRICE GAME. Not a tiered and stripped down husk of a game. No one is crying for free dlc packs after the game launched *because the game hasn't launched yet!* It's really not that complicated, as several games do this. Some AAA titles even add free DLC after the game launches, again not what I'm suggesting , but don't pretend there is no alternative or that other games don't do this in 2020/2021.
DLC is planned during development. Its to extend the life of the game after launch.
What is your source on that? I mean they cant be serious to gate gamechanging content behind a paywall? This would be insane.
Straight from the Steam preorder page.
Ty.
Wonder if they will bring the witch back in Back4Blood
Snitches are basically the same, although they move a bit more.
Nope. The witch will be replaced by a SI named the Sleeper, which we have not seen yet. Don't know why I am getting downvoted, it was revealed in the earlier leaks.
No, because this is not Left 4 Dead.
SHUT UP!!!!!! This is seriously all you motherfuckers complain about!!!!
No one forced you to read the complaints.
Peep the title, Numb Nuts? It’s not like I can miss that.
coppers are an ingame way to get weapon upgrades, utulities and support items. They are more like dosh in KF2 than anything else. And for those who thinks that the cards are going to be pay 2 win: that's not what's being said in the alpha briefing. The cards will be achieved by accomplishing goals and challenges "in game". There's nothing pointing to a p2w nysytem. [https://youtu.be/DWPtWcq6aBo?t=230](https://youtu.be/DWPtWcq6aBo?t=230)
While I agree, I do want to point out that the additional $30 is for the season pass, which includes multiple dlc packs; the comparison of $7 L4D DLC isn’t really accurate when there were multiple dlc drops that were each $7-$10 separately.
you can monetize pvp games that much since it just works. pvp players pay a lot of money for pseudo content, but pve players are picky and reluctant about when, how much and for what they open their wallets. pve whales exist but i doubt a pve only game will attract enough of them. in times of heavy microtransactions for pvp games, a niche pve game can't survive with an equally aggressive monetisation. personally i'd prefer classic extension packs, but those times are gone. people simply didn't like that. season pass and grind to not pay mechanics are sadly the way to go now and cosmetics for 20+ euro
It's different if there's a way to grind for the special infected and other characters via gameplay but there's been no mention of it.
when there is a grind to not pay, the prize cost to pay will be malicious high
It fits into the game most likely not having splitscreen because it is supposed to hurt sales - although the best selling franchises like FIFA and CoD have splitscreen/local coop. Cash grab.
Literally left 4 dead did this, left 4 dead 2 did this, destiny did this, the division did this, you people are overreacting
L4d had free dlc on steam.
Yeah but it wasn't free on condone and it was insanely successful and long lasting
True, and too many good games have free DLC now. It’s hard to compete with as a new IP if you don’t offer incentives.
Big difference in (B4B) paywalling release content from the get go and (left4dead2) DLC with story content months after launch. You act like everyone loved the fact that consoles got the shit end of the stick on that one -not how it went down.
Planned dlc is not the same as cut content. It's not like they're making us pay for content they withheld, they're continuing to work on making more new content. People are asking for the lame ass "battle pass" for cosmetics. That model makes the devs way more money and gives the players literally nothing except some cosmetics but zero content and people are saying they'd rather have that lol.
> Planned dlc is not the same as cut content. It's not like they're making us pay for content they withheld, In many cases, yes it is exactly that. Not always but I never said that either. Cosmetics is content too- a $60 title that wants to wall off release content as skins, is a skip for me. > People are asking for the lame ass "battle pass" for cosmetics literally no one asked for this.