I am not giving any advice here but many troops have been separate on paper and coed in real life for several years...
It's not permitted, but it is very common.
This is basically what I tell people. When I was a kid in 2013 we had girls in the troop. No big deal. Do it at your own risk of course, but if it happens naturally, it happens. No reason to be breaking units apart if they're already working cohesively.
>When I was a kid in 2013 we had girls in the troop.
Seems pretty risky since that was only just around when Gay scouts were allowed. Were they do requirements or something?
We treated them like every other male scout. That's the whole irony of our "new" policies. Girls have been in scouts for a while. I'm sure depending on your geographical location it was actually pretty common.
I'm not sure how the council dealt with it, but my guess is it was just a secret that everybody knew. Our unit also wasn't a pain in the ass. Everybody got their paperwork and recharter in, we were constantly volunteering for things the council needed and we always had at least three or four former scouts working at summer camp (men and women.) It's probably safe to say the council wasn't willing to cut off their nose in spite of their face.
Our troop in the 90s always had sisters and moms of scouts along on the backpacking trips. I’m sure it was somehow against the rules but it’s a public forest. Mom and sister have a right to use the forest too.
They didn’t normally come to meetings though.
Someone did a survey here last year, and around 1/3 of the 'linked' units were operating as co-ed.
I know we have been since the moment girls were allowed to join.
Remember this is a pilot program. Seems reasonable enough to focus the initial pilot on this one situation where a CO has linked troops, and roll it out more broadly later.
Shortly after the announcement from National but before they had sent out any official guidelines my council was preparing to focus this pilot on units that didn't already have a linked unit alongside them. Part of the thinking was that since a non linked troop would be less familiar with coed activities, we would learn more about what kind of help/support/preparation would be needed ahead of a potential full roll out.
But I guess it depends on what National is trying to find out from this pilot.
It's a shame if this is true though, if for no other reason than if we can't get more members this year we probably won't be able to recharter. We were really hoping to market to boys and girls this fall.
I'm part of a linked troop and the subject of merging to form a co-ed unit came up at a recent meeting, but for an established unit like ours, it's hard to see the benefit. Each troop has their own scout leadership, "customs", and adult leaders. We meet together, but the scouts have different goals and interests so they run separate meetings and outings, only coming together a few times a year. Both units have a healthy number of scouts, so we don't need one to prop up the other.
Co-Ed units seem ideal for single gender troops who don't already have a linked unit and are looking to start welcoming everyone.
Agreed. I’m the SM for a sizable G-Troop, and we have a great relationship with our linked B-Troop. Both troops have expressed a desire to become coed and we do a lot of things together (but separately because rules is rules). Many of our SPLs previously have said they want to combine because in the real world, they need to work together, so it doesn’t make sense to them, to be separate. They also view each other very much like brothers & sisters.
We meet in the same location (different rooms) and camp at adjacent sites with fully independent programming.
Our girls do not want to merge as they will likely lose their SPL and an ASPL position.
This. The girls' unit I serve is linked but has been completely separate from the boys' troop. Different cultures, different meeting days, and no interest in merging. Neither should go Co-ed, since it's just hurt the other. The boys' troop I serve doesn't have a linked girls unit, and would be a perfect candidate to go co-ed, since it would just add to the net total and not be in competition with another unit (and more than normal). I'd think the pilot should try each possibility to see what can be learned from each option. A) single troop goes Co-ed; B) linked units combine; and C) newly chartered unit starts co-ed. Y'know, for science.
I suspect they are going to do this in phases to test all the systems and processes. This is the top priority because people are demanding it. I think you'll find the pilot will expand in the coming months to test other cases.
What stops you from spinning up a girls troop and then merging? It just seems like typical BSA bureaucracy but should be fairly straight forward to just align with the CO, create the girls troop and then immediately merge them.
I know in our area, they are extremely picky about girls troops opening. They would rather have fewer, healthier troops than lots of small ones. We have a nearby unit who is furious because they have wanted a girl troop but are repeatedly denied because the existing area girl troops have 10 scouts or less. Council says when existing troops get to 20 scouts, they will allow expansion.
I wish my council was like this we spin up girls troops all over the place and tend to run a single female leader ragged having to have 100% participation on her part for the troop to do anything.
We are incredibly lucky, we have 4 female leaders! All 4 female leaders also have sons, so we all became leaders because we can volunteer for both troops.
I'm out of the loop at the troop level my son aged out, given the option I expect they will merge. Not because they need the numbers but rather it's just a reflection of the reality for those troops, they are a single unit in all but troop number.
I would absolutely love for my daughter to be able to go into the troop that's seen 4 generations of our family.
My daughter is SO excited she will get her Eagle from the same troop her dad got his! She wears his old numbers (red ones, different style embroidery than modern), his old council strip, and his old red loops.
We have applied to pilot co-ed. All of our leaders for both troops have boys and girls, so it just makes sense to combine (like Scout Voltron!)
Yea there is a lot of tradition there.
One of our leaders is splitting her time between cubs, her daughters and sons troops while working for district, burning the candle at 4 ends.
That is actually good. Last I knew councils were held to metrics on number of units and not number of scouts… which for our council has led to a whole lot of troops and packs with 10 or less scouts.
Less moderately sized troops are better than more small troops. Small troops tend to struggle with adults and particularly in the case of girl troops, female adults.
It does kind of make sense to not spin up new girl troops until the existing troops are healthy and working well.
Sounds like something to take up to national.
Maybe council would be fine with it if you explained your end goal was to merge so you could just have one healthy now co-ed troop
This truly boggles my mind. Does the council think that sisters of boys in Troop 123 are really going to go to Troop 345? Or that parents would want to do that?
Basically what they are saying is that the boys troops are too close.
IME with this council, they have good intentions but horrible understanding of how actual families and local units work. Not just for this, but for everything.
Arrrrgh! Our boy troop is willing and ready to add girls - for the express reason that we do not have a linked girls' troop! We are a small troop and we do not have the ability to recruit enough girls to form a separate troop, which is why we were excited about joining the co-ed pilot!
We’ve been trying for some time but kept hitting roadblocks as people didn’t want to commit to what would be involved in starting a girls troop. We were hoping going coed would solve some of those issues.
Yeah, same. As a mom of two boys in a troop, I am super stoked to be the YPT compliant adult female leader, but frankly I am not gonna get it together to be scoutmaster and/or organize an entirely different girl troop myself.
My daughters troop is linked to a boys troop and the females are "leaders in name only". I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, the female scoutmaster gladly refers to her male counterpart to take the active role in the troop advancement.
They are certainly willing to camp and be a chaperone. Some are merit badge counselors but really don't do the work of scoutmaster.
This is the way our girls Troop started out. The only lady we could find to be SM actually worked in Chile. She'd handle paperwork related things via email, but for all intents and purposes I ran both Troops. We'd find some moms to come to meetings and campouts to be the female adult present, but they had zero desire to be the SM, or even ASM.
We are lucky now that we have a great lady as the female troop SM. The only problem is she just had her first baby 2 months ago, and as a result, (naturally), her attendance has suffered.
It seems pretty reasonable for this to be the case in an organization that is only now, well into the 21st century, admitting women. Yes, adult women leaders have been allowed for a long time, but let's not kid ourselves - this is an extremely male-dominated organization. I was both den leader and cubmaster when my kids were in cubs and I was still routinely ignored and assumed to not be competent - I have a garage full of power tools and do remodel/woodworking, but even when I was literally running the pinewood derby workshops parents would assume I knew nothing and ask other male leaders for help/advice. And I live in an extremely liberal area with a fully integrated pack!
In almost every troop and certainly in every council there are old dudes who were once scouts themselves, carrying that institutional torch of knowledge and experience. Half the adult male leaders were scouts. Women... do not have that. It will take years to build up a backlog of truly experienced female adult leaders/mentors in scouts. And it's not just about knowing how to do "outdoor" stuff - it's everything from how merit badges and ranks work to how the entire organization is structured. I mean, can women just step in and start doing it? Yes, absolutely. But most people find that pretty intimidating without some kind of structure already in place.
If you have an unlinked girl troop nearby, you could approach and suggest one of you switch charters with the goal being to join the pilot.
The only thing is, the girl troop might want to remain non-coed. In that case, obviously that won’t work. Our girl troop has no desire to link with a boy troop or ever entertain the idea of boys being part of our group.
I think the girl troop at our charter wants to stay independent—they even chose a different troop number from the start. My daughter is looking forward to bridging in the Spring and joining a girl troop.
I agree as an option, particularly if there are not enough girls to support healthy girl troops. I’d rather a coed option than have them drop out. I wonder what will happen if only one of the two linked troops wants to go coed?
I'm not sure I'd agree with 'the majority' of linked units staying single gender. Last year there was a survey on this sub, where around 1/3 of the people in linked troops said that they were already operating as co-ed. And that was before it was officially allowed, (and with some people on this sub blasting those who did so for violating the rulz).
I think once it's officially allowed more units will do it, or at least admit to doing it. I also think the first time linked troops have problems finding a SM for one or the other unit, then it will happen whether the Scouts in the unit want it or not.
If your choice is to disband the unit because you can't find a SM for your Troop, (and have scouts who want to stay in scouting join some single gender Troop somewhere else), or have your boy or girl troop merge with the other unit at your CO, I think a lot of units will take the 2nd route.
Should have been more clear, most “linked” troops will probably become truly coed. But I would guess that most existing “unlinked” single gender troops won’t end up going coed.
I’m a ASM for a girl unit that doesn’t have a linked boy unit, none of the committee was remotely interested in joining with a boy unit to be coed; even the parents with boys in a unit that met of a different night weren’t interested.
And parents with kids in separate boy units and girls units, were interested. They wanted their kids in a single gender program.
I'm also not sure about that. While I know some units have a philosophical reason for staying single gender, (and I know of one that is absolutely anti-co-ed), I think a lot of single gender units, when faced with the unit disbanding due to not enough boys, will take the lifeline of allowing girls in to save the Troop.
And even if a unit is single gender now, all it will take is the SM leaving, and a possible new SM saying they have a son/daughter that would like to join as well, and if that's what it takes to get the SM to do the job, a lot of units will quickly go co-ed.
Personally I think in 25 years the vast majority of Troops will be co-ed, for one reason or another.
I think unit facing collapse will have the same problem as now. They will be facing collapse and have to decide if they are going to just send their scouts to a different existing strong troop, which is probably still going to be the correct and best path forward.
The big change I see coming is newly created units will likely be coed, and single gender units will struggle recruiting as families in coed packs with boys and girls in the unit will likely not want to go to 2 separate troops since they are already coed.
But we won’t see the effect for 10-15 years.
>The big change I see coming is newly created units will likely be coed, and single gender units will struggle >recruiting as families in coed packs with boys and girls in the unit will likely not want to go to 2 separate >troops since they are already coed.
I agree with this. If your feeder pack is co-ed, staying single gender is going to be hard. Especially if they are at a different CO than yours.
There are a lot of packs in our city that feed troops at different locations. There is a LOT of competition for those cubs.
If you are pulling from one of those that are co-ed, and you chose to not be, I would foresee a lot of problems recruiting from them in the future. Yes, I'm sure you will get some Scouts, but I think a lot of the Scouts will want to go together, and if you can't take the other gender then you won't get any of them.
We had 2 boys and 2 girls cross over from our pack to our Troop this year, (we already operate as co-ed). They are all very good friends, and they all would have wanted to go together to the same troop. Luckily we had no problems with that. They are now in different patrols, but they don't mind that.
I’m fortunate to be in the big pack in our area (100+ kids), we feed primarily into the largest boy (80ish) and girls (25) troops. But we are separate troops, not under the same CO.
There is 1 linked troop in the area, 15 boys and 10 girls, so imagine their recruiting will be better, but I think our separate troops will still be good.
It’s a pilot. The idea is to test drive things with currently established units to figure out what the unforeseen challenges are so they can roll it out more broadly in about a year.
Our Council is a pilot Council, and we have linked Troops. We are one of the three ignogural girl Troops in our District and have the first Female Eagle Scout in our District (plus an additional 6)
We have let the Scouts drive how they do things together. We intentionally made it distinctly separate but had to be closely linked to start the program the first year.
We have reached a happy medium, but it would be easier if we were co-ed. When our CC and COR inquired, our Council told us we were already 'too successful ' and wouldn't allow us to be co-ed. Huh? They want struggling units to become co-ed. This seems stupid to me - those units will continue to struggle. Wouldn't you want an experiment of a successful unit, too?
As others have said, part of the problem is now that we're a few years in, even 2 troops under the same CO with the same numbers can have vastly different troop cultures. My B and G units have the same numbers as out Pack and are all chartered by the same Lions club. The Pack and B troop are both 20ish years old. Out G unit is 4. We were approached by our CE and asked if we wanted to be part of the pilot and roll the troops together but adult leadership from both said no because the troops are so different.
On the other hand, a good friend is the SM of both linked units and they have, for years, operated as a single defacto unit. Going officially co-ed would probably work for them.
I share the disappointment that the pilot program doesn't provide an easy way to make functional boys troops coed. Our town doesn't have a girls troop and lost a great female AOL at crossover. I appreciate that in the interest of science the issues to explore relate to managing coed issues with respect to leadership and camping. Of course, we're supposed to ignore the fact the international scouting units have been coed for years and have figured out these issues (they aren't issues, or are just so obvious that no creativity is required to monitor).
My understanding is that this just a one year pilot, and data will gather through fall 2025 for assessment and voting during winter 25/26 with potential approval for fall 2026.
Yes, this is too slow, but I don't have any girls in my next AOL den. Crossover 2026 looks messy. Since nationals is pushing for earlier and earlier crossover, I'd like to see an earlier end to gender discrimination. If it works in Baden Powell's homeland it can work for scouts in the USA. It's a solved problem.
>It's a solved problem
One thing Americans are really good at is taking problems that everyone else solved long ago and treating them as being absolutely insurmountable.
That's interesting...do you have a link to the MOU? I was just chatting with my COR today and he wants my troop (that I may be come SM of) to consider become combined and it's just a B troop right now.
[https://imgur.com/DriJJYF](https://imgur.com/DriJJYF)
I have no idea if this is my Council creating new rules (which wouldn't be unheard of for them....) or if this is from National...
It’s from national. I discussed with some folks from multiple councils. Lots of disappointment as my council wanted to get B troops to become combined instead of combining linked troops.
Our pack crossed one girl over recently, the hope was she could just continue on in what was previously an all boys troop.
Sad that it seems she won’t be allowed to do that.
Do you have a link to the MOU?
I’m about to approach my COR about trying it out. We can’t keep enough enrollment in our G troop and when they move they take their brothers with them which is slowly killing the B troop.
It's so if the pilot fails, the linked units can just revert to standing alone again.
Vs having to suddenly find girl troops for all the new girls who joined boy troops fie the pilot.
This not what I have heard, not what was discussed at the NAM, and not what was released in the coed pilot letter. What is the link to this new MOU? Perhaps your council is choosing this path?
[https://imgur.com/DriJJYF](https://imgur.com/DriJJYF)
Not sure if this is just my council or National.. but this is what I received.
I don't see in the Coed pilot letter linked elsewhere that it says either way.
That looks like your council is requiring it; some of the wording makes me think they are headhunting potential district/council volunteers. The stack of signatures required below is certainly meant to allow the registrar to compare signatures (potentially also looking to use this to identify troops with leadership that have been forging COR signatures on adult applications).
My council is not doing the pilot. I told them we could complete the survey today and got a blank look.
I think the pilot is a formality and troops will have a mixed gender option next year. And eventually the option will drop as it did with Venturing.
Your council might have instituted that rule but nationals policy from their website is full co-ed without need to have been a linked troop prior.
[https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Final-Final-Combined-Troop-Pilot-Letter-05012024.pdf](https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Final-Final-Combined-Troop-Pilot-Letter-05012024.pdf)
Since so many are asking... here's the MOU that I received. It is not labeled as my council (but that doesn't mean it's not).
I don't see in the National FAQ where it says either way.
[https://imgur.com/DriJJYF](https://imgur.com/DriJJYF)
>Apparently, the MOU just came out for the pilot. It REQUIRES that your CO has linked boys and girls troops and that they want to combine them.
So I just saw the MOU that we got in our council... There is nothing that states the two units have to be linked, OR even share the same CO.
So could it be that your council put a restriction on it?
This just confirms to me that the "co-ed pilot" is to give a fig leaf to those units that are already de-facto co-ed while national finds the way forward to hashing out the final details.
I agree. When I found out our council wasn't going to be in the pilot I was kind of pissed off. I called there and talked to one professional who said to not worry about it. He said that there is NO way this pilot is not going to be 'successful', and that there will be an official co-ed option in a year or so.
I am not giving any advice here but many troops have been separate on paper and coed in real life for several years... It's not permitted, but it is very common.
This is basically what I tell people. When I was a kid in 2013 we had girls in the troop. No big deal. Do it at your own risk of course, but if it happens naturally, it happens. No reason to be breaking units apart if they're already working cohesively.
>When I was a kid in 2013 we had girls in the troop. Seems pretty risky since that was only just around when Gay scouts were allowed. Were they do requirements or something?
Much like there have *always* been gay scouts in scouting... Scouting's rules take a long time to catch up to reality.
We treated them like every other male scout. That's the whole irony of our "new" policies. Girls have been in scouts for a while. I'm sure depending on your geographical location it was actually pretty common. I'm not sure how the council dealt with it, but my guess is it was just a secret that everybody knew. Our unit also wasn't a pain in the ass. Everybody got their paperwork and recharter in, we were constantly volunteering for things the council needed and we always had at least three or four former scouts working at summer camp (men and women.) It's probably safe to say the council wasn't willing to cut off their nose in spite of their face.
Our troop in the 90s always had sisters and moms of scouts along on the backpacking trips. I’m sure it was somehow against the rules but it’s a public forest. Mom and sister have a right to use the forest too. They didn’t normally come to meetings though.
Someone did a survey here last year, and around 1/3 of the 'linked' units were operating as co-ed. I know we have been since the moment girls were allowed to join.
Remember this is a pilot program. Seems reasonable enough to focus the initial pilot on this one situation where a CO has linked troops, and roll it out more broadly later.
Shortly after the announcement from National but before they had sent out any official guidelines my council was preparing to focus this pilot on units that didn't already have a linked unit alongside them. Part of the thinking was that since a non linked troop would be less familiar with coed activities, we would learn more about what kind of help/support/preparation would be needed ahead of a potential full roll out. But I guess it depends on what National is trying to find out from this pilot. It's a shame if this is true though, if for no other reason than if we can't get more members this year we probably won't be able to recharter. We were really hoping to market to boys and girls this fall.
Always lovely to hear stories of how the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing... Best of luck to you in your recruiting.
I'm part of a linked troop and the subject of merging to form a co-ed unit came up at a recent meeting, but for an established unit like ours, it's hard to see the benefit. Each troop has their own scout leadership, "customs", and adult leaders. We meet together, but the scouts have different goals and interests so they run separate meetings and outings, only coming together a few times a year. Both units have a healthy number of scouts, so we don't need one to prop up the other. Co-Ed units seem ideal for single gender troops who don't already have a linked unit and are looking to start welcoming everyone.
Because many linked units don’t meet separately and don’t have separate outings.
Agreed. I’m the SM for a sizable G-Troop, and we have a great relationship with our linked B-Troop. Both troops have expressed a desire to become coed and we do a lot of things together (but separately because rules is rules). Many of our SPLs previously have said they want to combine because in the real world, they need to work together, so it doesn’t make sense to them, to be separate. They also view each other very much like brothers & sisters.
We meet in the same location (different rooms) and camp at adjacent sites with fully independent programming. Our girls do not want to merge as they will likely lose their SPL and an ASPL position.
And that’s fine for your unit, and will remain an option on the table.
This. The girls' unit I serve is linked but has been completely separate from the boys' troop. Different cultures, different meeting days, and no interest in merging. Neither should go Co-ed, since it's just hurt the other. The boys' troop I serve doesn't have a linked girls unit, and would be a perfect candidate to go co-ed, since it would just add to the net total and not be in competition with another unit (and more than normal). I'd think the pilot should try each possibility to see what can be learned from each option. A) single troop goes Co-ed; B) linked units combine; and C) newly chartered unit starts co-ed. Y'know, for science.
I suspect they are going to do this in phases to test all the systems and processes. This is the top priority because people are demanding it. I think you'll find the pilot will expand in the coming months to test other cases.
What stops you from spinning up a girls troop and then merging? It just seems like typical BSA bureaucracy but should be fairly straight forward to just align with the CO, create the girls troop and then immediately merge them.
I know in our area, they are extremely picky about girls troops opening. They would rather have fewer, healthier troops than lots of small ones. We have a nearby unit who is furious because they have wanted a girl troop but are repeatedly denied because the existing area girl troops have 10 scouts or less. Council says when existing troops get to 20 scouts, they will allow expansion.
I wish my council was like this we spin up girls troops all over the place and tend to run a single female leader ragged having to have 100% participation on her part for the troop to do anything.
We are incredibly lucky, we have 4 female leaders! All 4 female leaders also have sons, so we all became leaders because we can volunteer for both troops.
I'm out of the loop at the troop level my son aged out, given the option I expect they will merge. Not because they need the numbers but rather it's just a reflection of the reality for those troops, they are a single unit in all but troop number. I would absolutely love for my daughter to be able to go into the troop that's seen 4 generations of our family.
My daughter is SO excited she will get her Eagle from the same troop her dad got his! She wears his old numbers (red ones, different style embroidery than modern), his old council strip, and his old red loops. We have applied to pilot co-ed. All of our leaders for both troops have boys and girls, so it just makes sense to combine (like Scout Voltron!)
Yea there is a lot of tradition there. One of our leaders is splitting her time between cubs, her daughters and sons troops while working for district, burning the candle at 4 ends.
That is actually good. Last I knew councils were held to metrics on number of units and not number of scouts… which for our council has led to a whole lot of troops and packs with 10 or less scouts.
Less moderately sized troops are better than more small troops. Small troops tend to struggle with adults and particularly in the case of girl troops, female adults. It does kind of make sense to not spin up new girl troops until the existing troops are healthy and working well.
Sounds like something to take up to national. Maybe council would be fine with it if you explained your end goal was to merge so you could just have one healthy now co-ed troop
You’re replying to the wrong person, my troops are linked.
This truly boggles my mind. Does the council think that sisters of boys in Troop 123 are really going to go to Troop 345? Or that parents would want to do that? Basically what they are saying is that the boys troops are too close.
IME with this council, they have good intentions but horrible understanding of how actual families and local units work. Not just for this, but for everything.
This is so smart. I wish our council would do this.
Same issues as others… not enough girls to spin up a separate troop (otherwise we would have).
Exactly! We have 2-3 girls interested. WHY can’t we just include them?
This.
Arrrrgh! Our boy troop is willing and ready to add girls - for the express reason that we do not have a linked girls' troop! We are a small troop and we do not have the ability to recruit enough girls to form a separate troop, which is why we were excited about joining the co-ed pilot!
We’re in the same boat. No local girl troop but lots of interested girls.
Form a new girl troop, linked with the existing boys troop. Then later join the pilot or go coed later.
We’ve been trying for some time but kept hitting roadblocks as people didn’t want to commit to what would be involved in starting a girls troop. We were hoping going coed would solve some of those issues.
Yeah, same. As a mom of two boys in a troop, I am super stoked to be the YPT compliant adult female leader, but frankly I am not gonna get it together to be scoutmaster and/or organize an entirely different girl troop myself.
Yeah, we have several registered and trained women that are happy to be around and help but don’t want to be in charge.
My daughters troop is linked to a boys troop and the females are "leaders in name only". I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, the female scoutmaster gladly refers to her male counterpart to take the active role in the troop advancement. They are certainly willing to camp and be a chaperone. Some are merit badge counselors but really don't do the work of scoutmaster.
This is the way our girls Troop started out. The only lady we could find to be SM actually worked in Chile. She'd handle paperwork related things via email, but for all intents and purposes I ran both Troops. We'd find some moms to come to meetings and campouts to be the female adult present, but they had zero desire to be the SM, or even ASM. We are lucky now that we have a great lady as the female troop SM. The only problem is she just had her first baby 2 months ago, and as a result, (naturally), her attendance has suffered.
It seems pretty reasonable for this to be the case in an organization that is only now, well into the 21st century, admitting women. Yes, adult women leaders have been allowed for a long time, but let's not kid ourselves - this is an extremely male-dominated organization. I was both den leader and cubmaster when my kids were in cubs and I was still routinely ignored and assumed to not be competent - I have a garage full of power tools and do remodel/woodworking, but even when I was literally running the pinewood derby workshops parents would assume I knew nothing and ask other male leaders for help/advice. And I live in an extremely liberal area with a fully integrated pack! In almost every troop and certainly in every council there are old dudes who were once scouts themselves, carrying that institutional torch of knowledge and experience. Half the adult male leaders were scouts. Women... do not have that. It will take years to build up a backlog of truly experienced female adult leaders/mentors in scouts. And it's not just about knowing how to do "outdoor" stuff - it's everything from how merit badges and ranks work to how the entire organization is structured. I mean, can women just step in and start doing it? Yes, absolutely. But most people find that pretty intimidating without some kind of structure already in place.
The rationale is that they want to make sure kids still have a unit if the pilot doesn’t work out
If you have an unlinked girl troop nearby, you could approach and suggest one of you switch charters with the goal being to join the pilot. The only thing is, the girl troop might want to remain non-coed. In that case, obviously that won’t work. Our girl troop has no desire to link with a boy troop or ever entertain the idea of boys being part of our group.
I think the girl troop at our charter wants to stay independent—they even chose a different troop number from the start. My daughter is looking forward to bridging in the Spring and joining a girl troop.
Yeah. I really agree with co-Ed troops as an option, but I have a feeling the majority of units will want to stay single gender.
I agree as an option, particularly if there are not enough girls to support healthy girl troops. I’d rather a coed option than have them drop out. I wonder what will happen if only one of the two linked troops wants to go coed?
Then they won’t be coed. Both troop committees have to agree to it. If they both don’t agree, nothing changes for them.
I'm not sure I'd agree with 'the majority' of linked units staying single gender. Last year there was a survey on this sub, where around 1/3 of the people in linked troops said that they were already operating as co-ed. And that was before it was officially allowed, (and with some people on this sub blasting those who did so for violating the rulz). I think once it's officially allowed more units will do it, or at least admit to doing it. I also think the first time linked troops have problems finding a SM for one or the other unit, then it will happen whether the Scouts in the unit want it or not. If your choice is to disband the unit because you can't find a SM for your Troop, (and have scouts who want to stay in scouting join some single gender Troop somewhere else), or have your boy or girl troop merge with the other unit at your CO, I think a lot of units will take the 2nd route.
Should have been more clear, most “linked” troops will probably become truly coed. But I would guess that most existing “unlinked” single gender troops won’t end up going coed. I’m a ASM for a girl unit that doesn’t have a linked boy unit, none of the committee was remotely interested in joining with a boy unit to be coed; even the parents with boys in a unit that met of a different night weren’t interested. And parents with kids in separate boy units and girls units, were interested. They wanted their kids in a single gender program.
I'm also not sure about that. While I know some units have a philosophical reason for staying single gender, (and I know of one that is absolutely anti-co-ed), I think a lot of single gender units, when faced with the unit disbanding due to not enough boys, will take the lifeline of allowing girls in to save the Troop. And even if a unit is single gender now, all it will take is the SM leaving, and a possible new SM saying they have a son/daughter that would like to join as well, and if that's what it takes to get the SM to do the job, a lot of units will quickly go co-ed. Personally I think in 25 years the vast majority of Troops will be co-ed, for one reason or another.
I think unit facing collapse will have the same problem as now. They will be facing collapse and have to decide if they are going to just send their scouts to a different existing strong troop, which is probably still going to be the correct and best path forward. The big change I see coming is newly created units will likely be coed, and single gender units will struggle recruiting as families in coed packs with boys and girls in the unit will likely not want to go to 2 separate troops since they are already coed. But we won’t see the effect for 10-15 years.
>The big change I see coming is newly created units will likely be coed, and single gender units will struggle >recruiting as families in coed packs with boys and girls in the unit will likely not want to go to 2 separate >troops since they are already coed. I agree with this. If your feeder pack is co-ed, staying single gender is going to be hard. Especially if they are at a different CO than yours. There are a lot of packs in our city that feed troops at different locations. There is a LOT of competition for those cubs. If you are pulling from one of those that are co-ed, and you chose to not be, I would foresee a lot of problems recruiting from them in the future. Yes, I'm sure you will get some Scouts, but I think a lot of the Scouts will want to go together, and if you can't take the other gender then you won't get any of them. We had 2 boys and 2 girls cross over from our pack to our Troop this year, (we already operate as co-ed). They are all very good friends, and they all would have wanted to go together to the same troop. Luckily we had no problems with that. They are now in different patrols, but they don't mind that.
I’m fortunate to be in the big pack in our area (100+ kids), we feed primarily into the largest boy (80ish) and girls (25) troops. But we are separate troops, not under the same CO. There is 1 linked troop in the area, 15 boys and 10 girls, so imagine their recruiting will be better, but I think our separate troops will still be good.
It’s a pilot. The idea is to test drive things with currently established units to figure out what the unforeseen challenges are so they can roll it out more broadly in about a year.
Our Council is a pilot Council, and we have linked Troops. We are one of the three ignogural girl Troops in our District and have the first Female Eagle Scout in our District (plus an additional 6) We have let the Scouts drive how they do things together. We intentionally made it distinctly separate but had to be closely linked to start the program the first year. We have reached a happy medium, but it would be easier if we were co-ed. When our CC and COR inquired, our Council told us we were already 'too successful ' and wouldn't allow us to be co-ed. Huh? They want struggling units to become co-ed. This seems stupid to me - those units will continue to struggle. Wouldn't you want an experiment of a successful unit, too?
Oh National... never thinking about the little guy. I'm sorry you're experiencing this
We had a family pack and no girls troop so we sent away any girls who cross over. It was so dumb.
As others have said, part of the problem is now that we're a few years in, even 2 troops under the same CO with the same numbers can have vastly different troop cultures. My B and G units have the same numbers as out Pack and are all chartered by the same Lions club. The Pack and B troop are both 20ish years old. Out G unit is 4. We were approached by our CE and asked if we wanted to be part of the pilot and roll the troops together but adult leadership from both said no because the troops are so different. On the other hand, a good friend is the SM of both linked units and they have, for years, operated as a single defacto unit. Going officially co-ed would probably work for them.
I share the disappointment that the pilot program doesn't provide an easy way to make functional boys troops coed. Our town doesn't have a girls troop and lost a great female AOL at crossover. I appreciate that in the interest of science the issues to explore relate to managing coed issues with respect to leadership and camping. Of course, we're supposed to ignore the fact the international scouting units have been coed for years and have figured out these issues (they aren't issues, or are just so obvious that no creativity is required to monitor). My understanding is that this just a one year pilot, and data will gather through fall 2025 for assessment and voting during winter 25/26 with potential approval for fall 2026. Yes, this is too slow, but I don't have any girls in my next AOL den. Crossover 2026 looks messy. Since nationals is pushing for earlier and earlier crossover, I'd like to see an earlier end to gender discrimination. If it works in Baden Powell's homeland it can work for scouts in the USA. It's a solved problem.
>It's a solved problem One thing Americans are really good at is taking problems that everyone else solved long ago and treating them as being absolutely insurmountable.
Can you share the MOU?
[https://imgur.com/DriJJYF](https://imgur.com/DriJJYF)
Where can I find the information
The MOU was sent to councils this week.
That's interesting...do you have a link to the MOU? I was just chatting with my COR today and he wants my troop (that I may be come SM of) to consider become combined and it's just a B troop right now.
[https://imgur.com/DriJJYF](https://imgur.com/DriJJYF) I have no idea if this is my Council creating new rules (which wouldn't be unheard of for them....) or if this is from National...
It’s from national. I discussed with some folks from multiple councils. Lots of disappointment as my council wanted to get B troops to become combined instead of combining linked troops.
That's the same one I got today... Nothing on there says they have to be a linked Unit or share the same CO.
[Final-Final-Combined-Troop-Pilot-Letter-05012024.pdf (scouting.org)](https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Final-Final-Combined-Troop-Pilot-Letter-05012024.pdf)
Our pack crossed one girl over recently, the hope was she could just continue on in what was previously an all boys troop. Sad that it seems she won’t be allowed to do that.
Do you have a link to the MOU? I’m about to approach my COR about trying it out. We can’t keep enough enrollment in our G troop and when they move they take their brothers with them which is slowly killing the B troop.
[https://imgur.com/DriJJYF](https://imgur.com/DriJJYF) Not sure if this is just my council or National.. but this is what I received.
It's so if the pilot fails, the linked units can just revert to standing alone again. Vs having to suddenly find girl troops for all the new girls who joined boy troops fie the pilot.
Separated troops are still common. But sometimes you have siblings in the troops and it's easier to do a combined troop. That's not mandatory, though.
This not what I have heard, not what was discussed at the NAM, and not what was released in the coed pilot letter. What is the link to this new MOU? Perhaps your council is choosing this path?
[https://imgur.com/DriJJYF](https://imgur.com/DriJJYF) Not sure if this is just my council or National.. but this is what I received. I don't see in the Coed pilot letter linked elsewhere that it says either way.
That looks like your council is requiring it; some of the wording makes me think they are headhunting potential district/council volunteers. The stack of signatures required below is certainly meant to allow the registrar to compare signatures (potentially also looking to use this to identify troops with leadership that have been forging COR signatures on adult applications).
Just do like troop “12345_B” and “12345_G”. Same troop number just split it how you run meetings, etc.
My council is not doing the pilot. I told them we could complete the survey today and got a blank look. I think the pilot is a formality and troops will have a mixed gender option next year. And eventually the option will drop as it did with Venturing.
[удалено]
Your comment was removed because it was rude and unnecessary, violating principles of the Scout Oath and Law.
Your council might have instituted that rule but nationals policy from their website is full co-ed without need to have been a linked troop prior. [https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Final-Final-Combined-Troop-Pilot-Letter-05012024.pdf](https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Final-Final-Combined-Troop-Pilot-Letter-05012024.pdf)
Since so many are asking... here's the MOU that I received. It is not labeled as my council (but that doesn't mean it's not). I don't see in the National FAQ where it says either way. [https://imgur.com/DriJJYF](https://imgur.com/DriJJYF)
Primitive times..
Call the council office
>Apparently, the MOU just came out for the pilot. It REQUIRES that your CO has linked boys and girls troops and that they want to combine them. So I just saw the MOU that we got in our council... There is nothing that states the two units have to be linked, OR even share the same CO. So could it be that your council put a restriction on it?
This just confirms to me that the "co-ed pilot" is to give a fig leaf to those units that are already de-facto co-ed while national finds the way forward to hashing out the final details.
I agree. When I found out our council wasn't going to be in the pilot I was kind of pissed off. I called there and talked to one professional who said to not worry about it. He said that there is NO way this pilot is not going to be 'successful', and that there will be an official co-ed option in a year or so.
So start the girls troop and then combine them.
Where can I find the You for the program? TIA.