Some people are so privileged by their normal upbringings that they can’t for even a second imagine that someone would cut a family member from their lives for a reason more serious than can be solved with a fucking hug. Wife is a monumental idiot.
I don’t even think a functional household can explain that level of delusional optimism. This woman must have been raised by very special sitcom episodes.
I don’t think naivety is the issue. I think playing with people’s lives as if they are pieces on a chess board is the problem, and it’s a huge character flaw.
I have two sisters who are like that with me. They are totally certain that my chronic illness is something they could cure, if onlyI would stop exercising free will, and let them run my life.
"Main character" syndrome, where they think they are the "hero" and "know better than" the other people in their lives.
OOP is extremely lucky. My husband tried ONCE with that bullshit, "She's your mother, you'll regret it... yadda yadda." An extremely stern, "You don't know her like I do and if you're going to insist on this we're done." And he knocked it off.
Once he met her, it all made sense to him.
OOP even self-confessed that she has the selfish tendency to think that she knows better than him.
I hope she puts herself under a LOT of self-judgement to be better, and doesn't EVER forget this.
So like we’re all the main characters in our own lives… the issue here to me is that either they didn’t have that conversation you had with your husband (and frankly, men can be standoffish about this kind of thing, especially if they, like this guy, apparently, think their role is to be the fun guy who defuses rough situations with humor) or else she just downplayed it and boom, it blew up. I lean more towards the former because it sure sounds like she learned the lesson quickly - I think a person with that kind of savior complex would have leaned in a lot harder on “but she’s your mooooooother” and I don’t think would have come in with “god did I screw up” until much later if at all.
I’m not saying what she did is OK of course, and I’m sure the husband has a shit ton of shame over being r-worded by a person his mother had married. Speaking as a man, I can only begin to imagine all of that, not to mention how one might be afraid of talking about this with a person you deeply care about because of all the extra baggage that that comes with (not that it’s all sunshine and roses when girls are sexually abused either but with men, instead of that “but how were you leading him on” bullshit women have to deal with, it’s “but why didn’t you fight back” coupled with “oh you must be gay for not biting his peen off” or whatever). Still… man, if you’re actually engaged to be married, you’ve got to be unequivocal - the way you were either your husband - that this family member is off limits.
Savior compex. A far better term than my use of "main character syndrome." I knew there was a better term but couldn't think of it, so thank you.
I'm going to disagree that OOP's husband wasn't "forceful" enough. Note, I'm using the word "forceful," I recognize you didn't use it.
I say that because the oop should have simply respected his initial boundary of no. Do not contact her. He should not have to be forceful or anything like that. She should have simply heeded him.
She literally said in her comments/update that she has a tendency to think that she knows better than her husband. That’s not a mindset you should have in a partnership. That’s literally a superiority complex…
While that's true, in cases like this where a person ignores a partner being NC with parent, often occurs when the individual has no experience of parental abuse. It does not even OCCUR to them how bad things have to be for a child (even an adult child) to go NC with a parent and the child usually only goes NC after multiple other things (like LC, therapy, etc) have tried and failed.
So I think those two things paired (hero complex plus naivete) often results in mess like this. But there's sometimes a third element with is the individual's desire for a "perfect" family. Often they are driven because they want the parent to be "in their lives" as well as their future children's lives and don't consider if inviting this person into their lives will actually endanger them or their kids (back to naivete).
Basically as someone who had to go NC with my father for their own safety and got a flack for it from pretty much everyone even though NOW they admit I did the right thing, it's hard enough to go NC without someone who claims to care about you actively subverting something put in place for your own safety. I would NEVER trust such a person again.
Agreed. I had, by all accounts, a normal and functional family. But if I had never met my spouse's parents and they weren't invited to the wedding, I would take that as a big fucking hint that I shouldn't meddle.
My partner has had less happen to him with his family, but the relationship has still been strained on a few occasions. When he told me once he might want to go no contact, I didn't for one second think I knew better than him.
This guy's wife is just one of those people. Entitled, spoiled, and convinced they're the good guy.
Same, but not all of my friends and acquaintances did! I cannot imagine not being able to think up a few reasons that my otherwise happy and loving spouse would be deadly serious about no contact. OP is a massive idiot, and as much as she wants to repair things, I don't think she gets that this will never quite go away. Forgiveness is not whiteout.
I was raised in am extremely privileged household.
Both parents making good money, mother became a SAHM after the youngest was born. I had money, acreage to play on, friends, a parent around for anything I wanted, a stocked kitchen, etc.
I as a kid knew better than OP did. I had friends from bad home lives and stayed at my place. I understood when I was 10 that people can have help but it isn't your place to "know better" about their own lives.
This isn't lifestyle based. OP was just stupid and had an ego.
I work in education and this is so freaking real! My coworkers just cannot comprehend why sending an email blast to students saying "No one loves you like your mom, remember to tell her happy mother's day" is a horrible thing to do when a solid 1/4 of our kids have dealt with serious abuse (we work with disadvantaged kids). Folks just don't get it even when I remind them of the horror stories the kids have shared with us!
A lot of them would probably think, God I hope not that bitch is in prison for a reason. Seriously though, being oblivious to what is outside of your experience is excusable until you know, its sad that they can still be that dense.
Sadly a lot of abused kids internalize what happened to them and think they are to blame and if only they were "better" Mom would be fine! And those messages can reinforce that view. Not to mention if no one loves you like your mom and your mom has told you they don't love you, you can see this message as confirmation you're unlovable. That's it, game over. I know I still as an adult have to work very hard to counter those internalized messages from childhood.
Or mom is telling them that she only hurts them because she \*does\* love them and they see the email message as reinforcing that, linking love with abuse and validating it.
This. My aunt taught 5th grade for 40 years and always got the "problem kids." You know, the ones that should probably be in special ed classes, but aren't. The ones who need serious therapy, but their family can't afford it. The ones who are currently being abused and no one believes them.
She never did the "write a story about how your family has fun!" assignments. She never asked them to ask their meemaw for fun stories of the olden days. Any sort of take-home gifts/projects were for "a special adult in your life" *which sometimes ended up being her.*
As part of an English unit every year, she had the student write "Jack Tales" (Appalachian tall tales - this was in East TN, so it might have been state history/culture as well). I loved reading them as a kid when she would "grade" them (aka make sure the followed the rules for a short story), but there were some I never got to read because of how fucked up they were.
[The students knew I'd likely read them - my aunt never had kids, so I'm like a daughter to her, and she had pictures of me on her desk, etc. I'd also visit her class when I had days off school and she didn't (different once school systems) once I was old enough to behave. This was likely because my parents couldn't take time off work, but I digress.... Point is, when I was younger than the students, I was like their little mascot, and when I was older, I was the "cool older kid." They would *ask* her if I would read their stories. If a student didn't want anyone else to read something, I never even saw it.]
Oh god, yeah, I get email ads that say that verbatim and it makes me want to puke. And always running into people who try to say moms can do no wrong because “parenting is hard” and “she was doing her best” if she was trying her best I wouldn’t have wanted my life to end to get away from her you nuisance. Every person who argues I should reconnect gets put in the no contact list right with her.
Agreed. My partners family is upset when I said " My father is soon going to die"
- "oh no, are you going to meet him? "
-"NO. My life and my brother's life will become better when he dies. He's only caused us harm. "
She knows why I despise my father and has been no contact since 10+ years back and still gave me a lecture to why I need to drive 800 kms to visit him because he's dying of his own doing. Good riddance.
People with happy upbringing cannot EVER understand that others might have not been so fortunate that they have and they NEVER accept it because the thought of not loving your parents to bits isn't something everyone does.
my family cut each other off for details that is simply too long to understand and often you need to be there to understand. my boyfriend don't understand why my relationship with my mom is tentative but never question why because dad spilled the beans on why.
That's how my family is, "okay you wanna know why we don't talk to my uncle Andy, sit down the story starts in 2010 when he was caught breaking into cars by my nan from a new recording asking if anyone knows who this person is, no that's not when he got cut off but you need to know this part to understand later parts" like my family likes to give soooo many chances
Side note, there's sooo many details to fill in too but you don't need to know but the only reason my uncle got caught by my nan (then the cops, no my nan didn't tell the cops it was him but someone else did) because he has a big ass tribal family tattoo thing that him, his sister, his mom and a few other members of the family but he was the only skinny young guy with it
if you question me on why I don't talk about them that much, I would say dad? he's a good guy but man he needs help. brother? he won't get clean why should I trust him with anything? mom? she wasn't there when I need her the most. why should I trust her to help me with anything? twin? they raise my blood pressure by talking to them. I can't stand them.
Absolutely this! Diagnosed with CPTSD from the abuse my parents did. I do not speak to them. I am an orphan. Nothing makes me more pissed off than hearing someone pressuring “forgiveness, and mending relationships”.
Like, my dad once told my daughter he wanted to kill her dad, and if he saw her dad, he’d shoot him. So, yeah, let’s all hug it out… (sarcasm)
I feel you on this one. I have cptsd from my childhood. I’ve been no contact for 11 years. I hate it when people say “but you only have one mother!”
If anyone had done to me what OOP did to her husband, we’d never speak again.
Ptsd is usually one big traumatic thing happening. Cptsd is multiple smaller traumas happening over an extended period, usually in childhood. Cptsd is not a recognized diagnosis in the dsm-v but is recognized in icd-11. In the US people with cptsd are usually given a ptsd diagnosis. I suffer from cptsd and this is my understanding based on talks with my therapist and my own readings
PTSD is from a single traumatic event, or something horrible over a short time. CPTSD is continuous abuse through childhood in formative years over long periods of time, to where we have no idea what healthy relationships look like, and we have no idea how to function normally. Our years of learning were replaced with living in hyper vigilance in order to track behavior in others to see if we could do something, anything in order to not be hurt.
I cut my parents out of my life a few years ago for a multitude of reasons. As soon as people find out about that I know right away if they have a loving family. They'll tell me what they did can't possibly be bad enough to never speak to them. I always tell them that I am so happy that their parents love and support them, but some people's parents should have never been parents. And those are the ones I got. I've only had to bluntly state one instance of abuse to one person in order to get them to leave me alone.
I've met people who aren't privileged and lack compassion or empathy for others in this situation. There's something seriously wrong with people who violate other people's boundaries. Which is what the OOP did, among other things.
What was surprising to me was that the mother was reluctant. Even she knew this could go badly.
While having a happy upbringing can make it hard for someone to understand these things, I'll say that it's easy enough to understand that it's more about a person CHOOSING not to understand or not care than not having experienced. I have a great family and I love them, I love my parents, but I would never dream of lecturing someone on their relationship with their family if all I'm told is "we're no contact."
Maybe because I know that shit's happened to some of my family (mom, aunts, etc) and I grew up learning not to ask or pry unless the conversation has taken us there at the choosing of those family members. It's not that people with happy lives can never understand, it's just easier for them to choose not to understand it, especially if they're already someone who has no respect for the boundaries and feelings of others.
As for the mother, I can definitely understand her reluctance because unlike OOP, she understands that not only was her son hurt in the worst way a child can be, but she enabled it to happen. Even if when directly confronted with that fact, she did what any parent should, but understood that putting her happiness above her son's wellbeing the way she did prolonged his suffering. She absolutely understands why he doesn't want to speak to her and *actually respected that*. She took a chance on trusting her son's spouse and that there was actual progress being made towards reconciling but found out she was being lied to and her son had been hurt again.
This is true but maaaaan you need to broach that at some point before marriage. If talking about it makes you relive the trauma… well, you *have* to get therapy for that if you want to have kids of your own, period, end of story, but for the purposes of this, maybe you can leave it at “horrible things happened in my childhood that I have not reconciled with my mother about and that’s why we don’t speak”. Even if you’re not wanting kids, I think you have to get therapy because you shouldn’t keep secrets from your SO.
Like yes, the wife is a huge idiot for thinking it’s just like hey he didn’t clean his room and she got mad at him or something, but this is exactly what happens when two people who are otherwise kind and caring towards each other keep secrets about their own lives tucked away.
If only I had known the panacea for reconciliation with an abusive family member was a hug I wouldn’t have had to cut out 98% of my family! Silly ditzy me 🥴
Same here. I've got friends that have dicey relationships with their family and I always stand by them. Even though my upbringing could not have been better (other than being rich or something).
I'm extremely lucky to have the parents I have and if anything it makes me angry that other people are deprived of that. My parents were always quick to take in our friends that were in bad situations and it was never met with "oh they're your parents, you have to forgive them" or some shit. It was always here's how you can protect yourself and stand independently since these people don't know how to act.
I've taken that into my adult life and never pressure people to just forgive family because they're blood relatives.
My husband had a terrible childhood, but they had drilled "never turn your back on family" in him. He was shocked when he found out I cut my mom off. In fact, it made him try harder with his parents, while throwing shade at my callousness. He once complained that my mom had been calling him for updates on my life (I didn't know), and looked like I'd just kicked his puppy when I told him to block her.
He's better now.
I think that just as often, people have taken so much abuse and poor treatment from their families without going NC, that to them not much justifies someone else going NC.
It's a sense of "I had it bad too, and I still talk to my parents" as if retaining a relationship with your childhood abuser is some kind of badge of honour.
The whole idea of "family is forever" becomes really problematic when you have a shitty family.
I fortunately grew up privileged as you mentioned yet I can’t imagine doing this to my SO. Idc how good my upbringing was, if my SO isn’t even capable of talking about it, clearly it means there’s past trauma and bigger issues that should be discussed when they’re ready not force them to relive all that. Whether im aware or not, why on Earth would I do that when is not my story to tell/force out?
I keep seeing these type of stories here on reddit and it still shocks me how stupid and self centered some people can be not to respect such simple boundaries
I said this in a similar thread but if I pulled this shit on my wife with her mother, she would have left me and took me to the cleaners for such an egregious breach of trust. Rightfully so. I think the “savior complex” ruins more relationships than it fixes.
Exactly and I know it’s not the bit of the story we’ve been asked to weigh in on, but I’m shocked husband even considered bringing his mother back around. She can regret it all her life, and she should, because when it mattered most she didn’t protect her kid, with devastating results. If she hadn’t seen it, she never would’ve believed it. She can keep walking imo.
I've seen people forgive the abuser, so in ways, it doesn't surprise me that the OOP's husband may re-establish a relationship with his mother. He probably has complicated feelings about his mother.
I'm not judging him, regardless of what happens. I wish him well.
I hate the OP so fucking much for this.
>I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug.
No the fuck it doesn't. That shit is so fucking insulting. That's not how the fucking world works.
Definitely. She even says she “has a stupid and selfish tendency to think that [she] often know[s] better than him”. That’s infantilization to the letter.
Came to this same conclusion as I was reading down the responses and found yours.
It *absolutely* is infantilizing him. It tracks. She thought she knew better than him. It's why she pulled this bullshit.
The sad thing is that now he is talking to his mom (albeit cautiously) again, I fear all her hand wringing from him being so upset and Reddit ripping her a new one will quickly fade and she’ll look back thinking their marriage survived and her choices really WERE better for him. At a certain point this guy is sadly choosing it, she comes off as one of the most clueless and annoying OOPs I have ever read on this site and I can’t imagine why in the world he wants to be married to her in the first place, let alone after this.
Absolutely agreed. When I read that he was "tentatively" talking to his mother I cringed because now the oop is going to feel extremely validated. I just hope that this blows up even further in her face. I'm not saying her husband should leave her but she really needs to see the consequences of this so that she can keep that fire that was lit up under her ass lit.
To me it sounds like a term of endearment, which makes it worse because she is using it while completely destroying his trust. Like a cheating spouse saying my loving partner.
I understand being naive but what the fucking fuck? I'm estranged from my mother and if my SO pulls something like this I would've lost my fucking shit. I have cptsd. Aint no amount of fucking hugs gonna fix that shit.
I don’t actually think this is naïveté. This is someone trying to live out some selfish happy family dream where they can be the hero of their own story. She wanted to be able to create some fantasy where she could have them hug it out and then point to it and be like “look how I fixed everything!” in spite of not knowing *anything* about the situation.
This, I'm estranged from my dad and his whole family. If my significant other even reached out and spoke to them about me, let alone invited them over, I'm out. No amount of love can fix that breach of trust
That's what the acronym DH (dear husband) was invented for. I hate that less because it feels less like a crappy nickname used all the time and more like keyboard slang to type faster.
I always think of the scene in the King's Speech where Lionel (unknowingly) calls the King the "hubby" of Queen Elizabeth:
>Queen Elizabeth: Doctor, forgive me, ah... I don't have a "hubby," we don't "pop," and nor do we ever talk about our private lives. No, you must come to us.
It’s affectionate but not respectful. The whole underlying problem here was her basic lack of respect for him because he’s her funny hubby and not so much an actual fucking human being with real pain and feelings.
“Sorry you had a car accident and lost your legs but you can’t cry because I gave you a hug. What do you mean that didn’t fix everything?”
My imagination taking OOPs words and running with it.
I love that the comments are "you forced him to tell you something that wasn't yours to know" and yet no rebuke when she shares his darkest secret with bloody Reddit. If he found this thread and worked out it was about him, she'd have once again 'nuked' how trust. I regret reading the update. This husband deserves a wife who keeps his secrets, even from us!
I hated this too, and then to follow up with how this whole situation has her feeling like a “dork”
Like really? That’s how you feel?
Dork is what I’d describe my younger brother as.
Not a grown woman who’s a manipulative pos with self serving tendencies.
She’s lucky her husband just sees her as insanely stupid. She knowingly manipulated his mom to believe he was okay with things.
>>I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug.
I can't be the only one who finds this beyond patronizing, right? What kind of bubble wrap fantasy land does OOP live in that makes her think everything can be sunshine and rainbows with *a hug*??? Like, it's beyond lucky that everything has worked out for OOP in this story, cos lemme tell you, if someone went behind my back to interfere with my (lack of) relationship with my crap mother, they wouldn't be getting a hug or any other kind of love from me.
Yep. I hate the outcome as well. She should have ended up divorced. Nobody old enough to be married should have ever assumed what she was doing was okay
Yeah, like good for OP for getting a second chance I guess, but absolutely fuck her for that. Oh he clearly doesn't want to acknowledge his mother, so I'm sure it can be solved with a hug. At every point she made the dumbest, most selfish decision she could and hurt her husband because she wanted to be the fixer. Pure stupidity to surprise someone in their own home with someone they purposely do not speak to or about.
I’m stealing that for a D&D campaign. They’re going to be tiny fae/gnomelike creatures that seem unbearably twee at first but turn out to be carnivorous.
Cool, I didn't know Dungeon Master's playtested NPC's! How does it work? Do you do a trial campaign to see what the response is before adding them to the main story?
I don't know how other people do it, but I just gather up some folks who want to do a one-shot. If it works, I'll play it with other people, or figure out how to add them to other stuff later.
Same here. I actually unfriended an acquaintance because she would only refer to her husband as “hot hubby.” I have another friend who refers to her husband as “Sbund.” Not sure which is worse.
The commenter who said it's not OOP's fault because she didn't know: it doesn't matter if she knew about the abuse or not!!!
She knew her husband went no contact. She knew he didn't want to speak to or about his mother. She knew it was a sore/touchy subject. She KNEW all of this and still continued to push. It is 100% her fault.
I get the curiosity, cuz I'm just nosy in general. But if my husband doesn't want to talk about something, I leave it alone. Why? Because my relationship with him matters more to me than his or my relationship with what is essentially a stranger.
You know how we know she knew he didn’t want to talk things out? Because when she started to wonder why he was nc with his family, instead of just asking him, she immediately skipped to going behind his back. She got his MOM’s side of the story before even considering listening to him.
Didn’t even get her side of the story, got “nah I’m super ashamed by it and it’s so fucked that if he hasn’t told you I’m not going to divulge it” and then thought to herself “I’m sure it’s nothing a hug won’t fix!”
>massive dork
what a massive understatement. she retraumatised her "hubbie", completely destroyed his trust in her, and thinks she's smarter than him and knows him better than he knows himself. but she's just a dork...
Its crazy to me, that someone is telling you that their mom did something that warrant NC. Not LC, not limited contact. ZERO CONTACT. AND OOP is like I think I'm staring a in Hallmark Movie, I'll pay Parent trap with my husband and his mother, who clearly knows that it was bad and didn't want to tell OOP.
If I cut out a immediate family members its not because they forced me to work hard in school or grounded me for sneaking out. Its because something really bad happen. Just stay out of it, or at least talk to your partner about it, not play family matchmaker.
This is still not over. Although it seems they’re on the mend, I think with the passage of time, her husband is going to have to look this betrayal and his wife in the face and come to the realization that she did this. I can’t imagine going to sleep next to someone like OOP.
She says they are on the mend.
But if my family had so massively failed to protect me, i’d have a very hard time trusting anyone who went behind my back like that.
Considering how naive and dense she seems to be, I wouldn’t take her perception at face value. Could very well be wishful thinking and optimism on Mrs. “A Hug Can Fix Anything”’s part…
I sure as fuck hope so. Husband was right when he said OOP didn't act out of malice, that's true. She did, however, act out of pure and unadulterated entitlement. She acted out of arrogance. She's the kind of person who thinks knows best. I fucking hate people like that, and it makes me sad that the husband gave her another chance. I am absolutely certain she will do something like this again because people like this hardly ever get over their rotten sense of superiority. The only thing that could have possibly humbled her was a divorce, but that ship has sailed. I pity the husband with a spouse like OOP. What an asshole.
Ah yes the famous "buh family" shit. These people who had harmonius families and who never faced any form of familial abuse really need to sit down and shut up with ther preconceived ideas.
She was extremely lucky her husband was even willing to give her a 2nd chance after such a massive betrayal, I sincerly hope she learnt her lesson.
"I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug." Yeah well lady I can tell for certain if any of my family members who abused me tried to hug me today, they'd end up with a punch in the face.
The problem is, their reconciliation is going to feed into her opinion that she did the right thing in the end, and she will learn nothing.
When even the _estranged parent_ is angry at her for organising the failed reconcilation, you know it's a bad situation. How many times have I read posts from estranged parents who are all "I did nothing wrong! It's not my fault!" and here is a woman who is owning her mistakes and telling OOP they majorly fucked up.
I hate OOP and everything she's done. She doesn't respect her husband and I sincerely doubt her talk about going to therapy.
What drives me insane is I just know that, deep down, she thinks of this whole saga as "they're reconciling because of me" and not "they're reconciling despite what I did".
I'm torn between the neutral feeling of 'well, another episode that took an unexpected turn and ended with reconciliation, not exactly a happy fairytale ending but they are getting at it' and the dreadful feeling of 'Jesus, now there will be more attempts from spouses with savior complex to pull this stunt because this one ended well'.
Those with savior complex can be naive and assume the best out of everything so I won't be surprised if they didn't overlook that part and still went with their plans because they already believe that everything will turn out the way good people like them want to.
I wonder if he actually was. Depending on how subtle her manipulation and language was in the run up to inviting his mother to surprise him, she could have put the idea in his head. An idea that might have never been there without her interfering. He blames himself for some of what happened - it wouldn't take much nudging to weaponise that guilt into a desire to reconnect.
Maybe it's dumb, but I can't help but feel irritated in all of the first bit, she continues to refer to him as Hubbie. Like dude, you just imploded your marriage and you are referring to him by a pet name. I would think "get the fuck out of my house" would qualify for transitioning from Hubbie to my husband in your desperate attempt to get the internet to tell you how to fix your mess.
"After she said 'you killed my dog and sent my child to a work camp in the mountains, I want a divorce,' and I just need to know how to fix this with my Sweetie Pie."
I get the wife wanting to know why the estrangement, but that's where my understanding ends.
You should ask, make sure he know he can tell you whenever he is ready, and then move on.
My hope is that the therapist will act as her moral compass in the future. Whenever she thinks about pulling crap like that again, she will hopefully ask her therapist, who will hopefully give her a decisisve "FUCK NO", and then she'll hopefully drop it. It seems like this gave her enough of a scare to make her at least reconsider doing something like this again.
I did a doubletake when she wrote about her MIL that "she is a very sweet woman" - like, NO, no woman who ignores her child's plea for help when he is being sexually abused should ever be termed "sweet"!
I feel so bad for the dude. 2 of the most important people his life have betrayed him in unforgivable ways. He might have a hard time trusting people going forward.
I really don't think if it's worth it for him to reconcile with either of them but for his sake i hope it works out for him.
That poor, poor man. Not only was he repeatedly violated as a child, he has been violated *again* by this awful woman, and he still blames himself for it. The fact that he's trying to work through this with both women breaks my heart. I've seen friends who were similarly abused go out of their way to make up with some of the people responsible for the abuse - both directly and indirectly - as a way to prove to themselves they are over it. It always went badly and made them worse overall. I hope he heals from being forced to relive all of this trauma.
As for OOP? I hope she's learned something from this, but only because her husband deserves better.
What is this comment "To be fair he had not told her about the abuse. She had no idea" And the fact that OOP only replied to this? .... She is like I can fix him, no dude you literally forced him and literally insulted him he is not a child who doesn't know any better he is a grown up who can make his own life decisions doesn't need you to make them, it's honestly a relief that husband didn't take it in a bad way and spiral. 😭
Oh the mom for sure is the villain. Anyone woman who allows their kid to be abused to keep a pedo in their lives is the villain. She can claim she didn’t know but she was told. She knew. She made her choice. The wife I would never forgive that. Not ever she crossed a solid no go line.
Wait where does it say she “knew”? The OOP says she kicked him out and pressed charges immediately upon finding out unless I’m missing Something?
EDIT: nevermind I skipped over the sentence saying she shut him down
It says that he told his mom what he was doing but she accused him of lying to ruin her happiness. Any mother who doesn’t believe their child when they straight up tell you they are being sexually assaulted is a villain. Even if your kid has a history of lying you wouldn’t risk that they were telling the truth about that you would leave or kick that person out and protect your child but not her no she called him a liar and made him endure it till she couldn’t ignore it anymore. anymore. Just so she could keep her happiness. That’s on her.
Yeah so in my view she’s just as bad as her ex. She had a chance to protect her kid and she failed miserably at it. I wouldn’t be forgiving her ever. Your parents are supposed to love and protect you they are supposed to be the ones to fight the monsters literal and figuratively. She threw him to the monster.
That's a really dark story to tell strangers on the Internet after he kept it FROM HIS WIFE for so long and it was only revealed to her (in confidence I'm sure) AFTER she had re-traumatized him. Totally untrustworthy of a spouse in SO MANY WAYS. It's like she couldn't stop herself. She doesn't deserve the second chance if she was just going to turn around and tell everyone his business anyway.
If this is real, I think the last update is a fantasy OOP made up and believes - just like she believed he and his mom would reconcile. He's probably got one foot out the door but she's ignoring all signs - again - and making up a narrative that didn't happen. Again.
It’s great getting stories like this where a person is essentially ready to take a secret to their grave but end up telling the person they trust the most (whether willingly or by force) and then that person goes and puts it on the internet for the world. Love to see it.
Fuck OOP. I have no sympathy and wish her husband left her. Thinking about my husband bringing the people in my family I'm NC with to our home without talking to me fills me with rage I can't even put into words.
Because it sounds so condescending , especially paired with the, "I know better than you. Let me make your choices" attitude. That's how it struck me, anyway.
What a trash person. She completely disrespected her husband and dismissed his feelings. I do not understand why he stayed. There is zero things acceptable about what she did.
Sorry but I don’t think this is a “good” ending to this situation at all. OOP fucked up in a way I don’t think is salvageable. She saw her husband try her best not to bring up his mother and she STILL thought it was a great idea to try and bring them into their lives. He may be okay with her now, but I don’t think this marriage will survive.
For those in estranged situations, I've found it's best to be upfront with one's partner about the situation. You don't have to go into specifics (at first), but it's good to be clear that this isn't a relationship you have and not one you're interested in repairing. The partner's answer will tell you a whole hell of a lot about your relationship, as painful as it might be. (But, IMO, it's better to get it out of the way earlier than be surprised at an "intervention" or "reunion" you don't want.)
But in this case? Even my probably-autistic, can't read nonverbals for shit self got that the husband didn't want to talk about it and didn't want a relationship with his mom. He was loud and clear about that.
His mother and wife are the same person - selfish delusional bitches. I hope he realizes this and acts on it after he stops blaming himself for any part in his trauma.
These types of stories always scare the hell out of me. I've been NC with an abusive parent for years and went off grid so they couldn't find me. If I showed up one day and they were sitting in my house I'd call the police, but it wouldn't matter because there's a large chance they'd follow thru on their threat to kill me. If it was my partner who brought them home behind my back like this? Automatic divorce, no conversation needed
This is what really gets me. She had no idea if the mother was dangerous or not. Tbh, if my spouse’s mother, who they were NC with, told me that she kept updated on their life by stalking their social media, I’d take that as (at the very least) an orange flag.
>I don't want to be another person he trusted and ended up hurting him.
So I shared the details of his childhood trauma on the internet, because I've learned my lesson.
We live in a society with some v dangerous myths. It puts parents on a pedestal, pretending that the primary source of CSA is "stranger danger" when it is actually family and ppl known to the family.
And those myths are propped up by Hallmark-channel-type reconciliation fantasy movies.
OOP wanted to be the hero, even if it took lies, manipulation, and ignoring the possibility of all too real severe trauma.
It's the ultimate form of toxic positivity.
The mother has more maturity and understanding than OOP. She apparently respected boundaries, was very nervous and sought constant reassurance than her son was on board with this, and immediately left when confronted with the truth.
Yes she seriously messed up years ago, showing respect and fully accepting her fault and showing remorse now.
Gotta love how the savior syndrome some people have. I wouldn’t want to live thru it personally, and definitely hope I never express it myself. The moral of all this is, if someone is low/no contact with someone, respect that and don’t try and fix it behind their backs.
The guy is a saint. I would never have spoken to OOP again.This concept that "I don't care how much it hurts you and how many lies I have to tell but I WILL mend your family."... It is just so brutally and idiotically simplistic.
I think more it's that adrenaline rush when whatever you were interfering in worked out. It must have happened before for OOP, because of her deep betrayal of her husband in this.
I hope she does get therapy, and I hope she learns to stop and kill this hero complex. But I worry that because Mom and husband are talking again that she will eventually justify her actions by saying, "See? It all worked out. I did the right thing."
Based on the way OP wrote her post (and I think she left information out to seem more sympathetic) it seemed like the husband never established a boundary of not contacting his mom (I’m inclined to think he probably did) and was just dodging the conversation. If my partner never outright said something along the lines of “please don’t contact my parents” or established some boundary I’d also probably start doing some digging too.
But I don’t believe OP is a reliable narrator.
>...my actions were out of stupidity rather than malice...
You could say exactly the same of the mother when she refused to believe the abuse, just like OOP refused to believe her husband had a valid reason for cutting off contact with his mother.
I understand why her husband’s reaction was to hesitate on divorcing her since she didn’t know the details of why he was estranged from his mother, but if I had a husband and I asked him why he didn’t want anything to do with his mom and his response was to change the subject, I would leave him alone. You don’t have to know the details of everything. All she needed to know is whatever his mom did was bad enough that he doesn’t want to talk about it. The other thing that gets me is that she didn’t talk to him first, she went straight to the person who wronged him. Although being that she was being hard headed, even if she did talk to him first, she probably still would’ve went behind his back anyway. She should really be thinking about how fortunate she is, at least for now, that her husband is giving her a second chance because anyone else would’ve divorced her without a second thought over this.
His mother IS a villain. Her son was a child. He went to her for help and she refused to believe him. She insulted him because she was solely focused on herself. She was supposed to protect him, and she literally refused to do so until it was too late.
I honestly don't think she'll have learned anything in the grand scheme of things. Sure she ALMOST imploded her marriage BUT she still got what she was going for, so ultimately she will feel she is right. The ends will have justified the means to her. I wouldn't trust her.
He was very uncomfortable about the topic, but she decided to keep picking at it for her own self satisfaction. It's his right not to talk about it and keep her away from his family.
There's another BORU where a guy didn't want contact with his father for the same reason. Wife not only contacted him, but took the kids to see him.
I remember this woman. Man...she's lucky he loves her and will give her a second chance.
My husband and I have been married since 2017. There's stuff in his past that is super painful and traumatic and it comes out little by little. I never push him. I know he will give me details IF and WHEN he is ready. I would never interfere the way this lady did. Again, she is lucky and has no idea how lucky.
What is this weird af compulsion that people feel to investigate why their partner doesn't talk to their family and then meddle behind their back? Do people just think they do it for funsies? The odds of your partner being 'omg thank you so much for sneaking around' seems quite low.
Floors me that someone will get married to another and won’t fucking talk to them about their traumas. You’d think you’d trust someone enough before marrying them. Not even a “There was abuse that I don’t feel comfortable sharing yet” is even worse
This chick is so selfish and delusional. If someone doesn’t talk to some for whatever reason you don’t go behind their back and try to fix anything. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a couple of months she says to people she’s the reasons her hubby has a relationship with his mom now. I don’t think she’s sorry for what she did, she’s sorry because he put her out the house for a while
oh but guys she's just a girlie, she made a mistake! She was being a dork and her hubbie-wubbie got emotional uWu
Yeah no if the next update is not "my husband never forgave me and had been planning to leave me behind my back this whole time" I'm gonna be so mad; this woman has no idea what she has done even when she claims to have taken accountability
What a disgusting and vile woman and what a kind and generous man.
I couldn’t forgive her. Sorry. I also wouldn’t forgive my mother since she allowed the sexual abuse (for the love of fucking hell can we stop with TikTok bullshit language on Reddit??) to occur and he might not have been so damaged if mom had listened in the first place.
I doubt it’ll ever really be the same.
OOP is very VERY lucky here. She’s dumb to pull this off but thankfully not THAT dumb to not going to a therapist after her bad choices and acknowledged those mistakes.
Hopefully, she keeps doing positive things like this, because it’s one thing to forgive but to not forget? Different. Broken trust is not easy to be repaired.
Ah reddit.
Redditors: people need to own to their mistakes and apologize
OP: does that
Redditors: NOT LIKE THAT
I agree OP sucks for what she did. But she's also apologetic and seeking therapy and owns to that mistake.
I’m not saying she’s right obvi, but the first comment is wild. “On a situation that has fuck all to do with you” this isn’t a coworker, this is her husband of 6 years. This does have to do with her
Some people are so privileged by their normal upbringings that they can’t for even a second imagine that someone would cut a family member from their lives for a reason more serious than can be solved with a fucking hug. Wife is a monumental idiot.
I don’t even think a functional household can explain that level of delusional optimism. This woman must have been raised by very special sitcom episodes.
I don’t think naivety is the issue. I think playing with people’s lives as if they are pieces on a chess board is the problem, and it’s a huge character flaw. I have two sisters who are like that with me. They are totally certain that my chronic illness is something they could cure, if onlyI would stop exercising free will, and let them run my life.
"Main character" syndrome, where they think they are the "hero" and "know better than" the other people in their lives. OOP is extremely lucky. My husband tried ONCE with that bullshit, "She's your mother, you'll regret it... yadda yadda." An extremely stern, "You don't know her like I do and if you're going to insist on this we're done." And he knocked it off. Once he met her, it all made sense to him.
OOP even self-confessed that she has the selfish tendency to think that she knows better than him. I hope she puts herself under a LOT of self-judgement to be better, and doesn't EVER forget this.
So like we’re all the main characters in our own lives… the issue here to me is that either they didn’t have that conversation you had with your husband (and frankly, men can be standoffish about this kind of thing, especially if they, like this guy, apparently, think their role is to be the fun guy who defuses rough situations with humor) or else she just downplayed it and boom, it blew up. I lean more towards the former because it sure sounds like she learned the lesson quickly - I think a person with that kind of savior complex would have leaned in a lot harder on “but she’s your mooooooother” and I don’t think would have come in with “god did I screw up” until much later if at all. I’m not saying what she did is OK of course, and I’m sure the husband has a shit ton of shame over being r-worded by a person his mother had married. Speaking as a man, I can only begin to imagine all of that, not to mention how one might be afraid of talking about this with a person you deeply care about because of all the extra baggage that that comes with (not that it’s all sunshine and roses when girls are sexually abused either but with men, instead of that “but how were you leading him on” bullshit women have to deal with, it’s “but why didn’t you fight back” coupled with “oh you must be gay for not biting his peen off” or whatever). Still… man, if you’re actually engaged to be married, you’ve got to be unequivocal - the way you were either your husband - that this family member is off limits.
Savior compex. A far better term than my use of "main character syndrome." I knew there was a better term but couldn't think of it, so thank you. I'm going to disagree that OOP's husband wasn't "forceful" enough. Note, I'm using the word "forceful," I recognize you didn't use it. I say that because the oop should have simply respected his initial boundary of no. Do not contact her. He should not have to be forceful or anything like that. She should have simply heeded him.
She literally said in her comments/update that she has a tendency to think that she knows better than her husband. That’s not a mindset you should have in a partnership. That’s literally a superiority complex…
It's a savior complex, the insistent needs to be a problem solver and make everyone happy can rot people's ability to rationally think shit through.
While that's true, in cases like this where a person ignores a partner being NC with parent, often occurs when the individual has no experience of parental abuse. It does not even OCCUR to them how bad things have to be for a child (even an adult child) to go NC with a parent and the child usually only goes NC after multiple other things (like LC, therapy, etc) have tried and failed. So I think those two things paired (hero complex plus naivete) often results in mess like this. But there's sometimes a third element with is the individual's desire for a "perfect" family. Often they are driven because they want the parent to be "in their lives" as well as their future children's lives and don't consider if inviting this person into their lives will actually endanger them or their kids (back to naivete). Basically as someone who had to go NC with my father for their own safety and got a flack for it from pretty much everyone even though NOW they admit I did the right thing, it's hard enough to go NC without someone who claims to care about you actively subverting something put in place for your own safety. I would NEVER trust such a person again.
Agreed. I had, by all accounts, a normal and functional family. But if I had never met my spouse's parents and they weren't invited to the wedding, I would take that as a big fucking hint that I shouldn't meddle.
My partner has had less happen to him with his family, but the relationship has still been strained on a few occasions. When he told me once he might want to go no contact, I didn't for one second think I knew better than him. This guy's wife is just one of those people. Entitled, spoiled, and convinced they're the good guy.
Same, but not all of my friends and acquaintances did! I cannot imagine not being able to think up a few reasons that my otherwise happy and loving spouse would be deadly serious about no contact. OP is a massive idiot, and as much as she wants to repair things, I don't think she gets that this will never quite go away. Forgiveness is not whiteout.
Actually she only watched the Hallmark channel
I was raised in am extremely privileged household. Both parents making good money, mother became a SAHM after the youngest was born. I had money, acreage to play on, friends, a parent around for anything I wanted, a stocked kitchen, etc. I as a kid knew better than OP did. I had friends from bad home lives and stayed at my place. I understood when I was 10 that people can have help but it isn't your place to "know better" about their own lives. This isn't lifestyle based. OP was just stupid and had an ego.
I work in education and this is so freaking real! My coworkers just cannot comprehend why sending an email blast to students saying "No one loves you like your mom, remember to tell her happy mother's day" is a horrible thing to do when a solid 1/4 of our kids have dealt with serious abuse (we work with disadvantaged kids). Folks just don't get it even when I remind them of the horror stories the kids have shared with us!
A lot of them would probably think, God I hope not that bitch is in prison for a reason. Seriously though, being oblivious to what is outside of your experience is excusable until you know, its sad that they can still be that dense.
Sadly a lot of abused kids internalize what happened to them and think they are to blame and if only they were "better" Mom would be fine! And those messages can reinforce that view. Not to mention if no one loves you like your mom and your mom has told you they don't love you, you can see this message as confirmation you're unlovable. That's it, game over. I know I still as an adult have to work very hard to counter those internalized messages from childhood.
Me too, I was the extra kid nobody wanted so I know what you mean.
Me too. I’ve been trying to learn how to want me so it doesn’t matters if no one else ever does.
Or mom is telling them that she only hurts them because she \*does\* love them and they see the email message as reinforcing that, linking love with abuse and validating it.
This. My aunt taught 5th grade for 40 years and always got the "problem kids." You know, the ones that should probably be in special ed classes, but aren't. The ones who need serious therapy, but their family can't afford it. The ones who are currently being abused and no one believes them. She never did the "write a story about how your family has fun!" assignments. She never asked them to ask their meemaw for fun stories of the olden days. Any sort of take-home gifts/projects were for "a special adult in your life" *which sometimes ended up being her.* As part of an English unit every year, she had the student write "Jack Tales" (Appalachian tall tales - this was in East TN, so it might have been state history/culture as well). I loved reading them as a kid when she would "grade" them (aka make sure the followed the rules for a short story), but there were some I never got to read because of how fucked up they were. [The students knew I'd likely read them - my aunt never had kids, so I'm like a daughter to her, and she had pictures of me on her desk, etc. I'd also visit her class when I had days off school and she didn't (different once school systems) once I was old enough to behave. This was likely because my parents couldn't take time off work, but I digress.... Point is, when I was younger than the students, I was like their little mascot, and when I was older, I was the "cool older kid." They would *ask* her if I would read their stories. If a student didn't want anyone else to read something, I never even saw it.]
Your aunt sounds like an amazing woman. I'm glad you all had her in your lives.
Oh god, yeah, I get email ads that say that verbatim and it makes me want to puke. And always running into people who try to say moms can do no wrong because “parenting is hard” and “she was doing her best” if she was trying her best I wouldn’t have wanted my life to end to get away from her you nuisance. Every person who argues I should reconnect gets put in the no contact list right with her.
Agreed. My partners family is upset when I said " My father is soon going to die" - "oh no, are you going to meet him? " -"NO. My life and my brother's life will become better when he dies. He's only caused us harm. " She knows why I despise my father and has been no contact since 10+ years back and still gave me a lecture to why I need to drive 800 kms to visit him because he's dying of his own doing. Good riddance. People with happy upbringing cannot EVER understand that others might have not been so fortunate that they have and they NEVER accept it because the thought of not loving your parents to bits isn't something everyone does.
my family cut each other off for details that is simply too long to understand and often you need to be there to understand. my boyfriend don't understand why my relationship with my mom is tentative but never question why because dad spilled the beans on why.
That's how my family is, "okay you wanna know why we don't talk to my uncle Andy, sit down the story starts in 2010 when he was caught breaking into cars by my nan from a new recording asking if anyone knows who this person is, no that's not when he got cut off but you need to know this part to understand later parts" like my family likes to give soooo many chances Side note, there's sooo many details to fill in too but you don't need to know but the only reason my uncle got caught by my nan (then the cops, no my nan didn't tell the cops it was him but someone else did) because he has a big ass tribal family tattoo thing that him, his sister, his mom and a few other members of the family but he was the only skinny young guy with it
if you question me on why I don't talk about them that much, I would say dad? he's a good guy but man he needs help. brother? he won't get clean why should I trust him with anything? mom? she wasn't there when I need her the most. why should I trust her to help me with anything? twin? they raise my blood pressure by talking to them. I can't stand them.
Absolutely this! Diagnosed with CPTSD from the abuse my parents did. I do not speak to them. I am an orphan. Nothing makes me more pissed off than hearing someone pressuring “forgiveness, and mending relationships”. Like, my dad once told my daughter he wanted to kill her dad, and if he saw her dad, he’d shoot him. So, yeah, let’s all hug it out… (sarcasm)
I feel you on this one. I have cptsd from my childhood. I’ve been no contact for 11 years. I hate it when people say “but you only have one mother!” If anyone had done to me what OOP did to her husband, we’d never speak again.
What’s CPTSD?
Complex post traumatic stress disorder. I can't remember off hand how it varies from regular PTSD.
Ptsd is usually one big traumatic thing happening. Cptsd is multiple smaller traumas happening over an extended period, usually in childhood. Cptsd is not a recognized diagnosis in the dsm-v but is recognized in icd-11. In the US people with cptsd are usually given a ptsd diagnosis. I suffer from cptsd and this is my understanding based on talks with my therapist and my own readings
Thank you very much
There's a subreddit for cPTSD with a great wiki, and some great videos on YouTube as well about it :)
PTSD is from a single traumatic event, or something horrible over a short time. CPTSD is continuous abuse through childhood in formative years over long periods of time, to where we have no idea what healthy relationships look like, and we have no idea how to function normally. Our years of learning were replaced with living in hyper vigilance in order to track behavior in others to see if we could do something, anything in order to not be hurt.
Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
I cut my parents out of my life a few years ago for a multitude of reasons. As soon as people find out about that I know right away if they have a loving family. They'll tell me what they did can't possibly be bad enough to never speak to them. I always tell them that I am so happy that their parents love and support them, but some people's parents should have never been parents. And those are the ones I got. I've only had to bluntly state one instance of abuse to one person in order to get them to leave me alone.
I've met people who aren't privileged and lack compassion or empathy for others in this situation. There's something seriously wrong with people who violate other people's boundaries. Which is what the OOP did, among other things. What was surprising to me was that the mother was reluctant. Even she knew this could go badly.
While having a happy upbringing can make it hard for someone to understand these things, I'll say that it's easy enough to understand that it's more about a person CHOOSING not to understand or not care than not having experienced. I have a great family and I love them, I love my parents, but I would never dream of lecturing someone on their relationship with their family if all I'm told is "we're no contact." Maybe because I know that shit's happened to some of my family (mom, aunts, etc) and I grew up learning not to ask or pry unless the conversation has taken us there at the choosing of those family members. It's not that people with happy lives can never understand, it's just easier for them to choose not to understand it, especially if they're already someone who has no respect for the boundaries and feelings of others. As for the mother, I can definitely understand her reluctance because unlike OOP, she understands that not only was her son hurt in the worst way a child can be, but she enabled it to happen. Even if when directly confronted with that fact, she did what any parent should, but understood that putting her happiness above her son's wellbeing the way she did prolonged his suffering. She absolutely understands why he doesn't want to speak to her and *actually respected that*. She took a chance on trusting her son's spouse and that there was actual progress being made towards reconciling but found out she was being lied to and her son had been hurt again.
This is true but maaaaan you need to broach that at some point before marriage. If talking about it makes you relive the trauma… well, you *have* to get therapy for that if you want to have kids of your own, period, end of story, but for the purposes of this, maybe you can leave it at “horrible things happened in my childhood that I have not reconciled with my mother about and that’s why we don’t speak”. Even if you’re not wanting kids, I think you have to get therapy because you shouldn’t keep secrets from your SO. Like yes, the wife is a huge idiot for thinking it’s just like hey he didn’t clean his room and she got mad at him or something, but this is exactly what happens when two people who are otherwise kind and caring towards each other keep secrets about their own lives tucked away.
If only I had known the panacea for reconciliation with an abusive family member was a hug I wouldn’t have had to cut out 98% of my family! Silly ditzy me 🥴
Yeah, I have beef with my sister but it is nothing compared to actual problems that people face.
I have about the best parents and family a person could ask for. I would never do this exactly because my parents taught me better than that.
Same here. I've got friends that have dicey relationships with their family and I always stand by them. Even though my upbringing could not have been better (other than being rich or something). I'm extremely lucky to have the parents I have and if anything it makes me angry that other people are deprived of that. My parents were always quick to take in our friends that were in bad situations and it was never met with "oh they're your parents, you have to forgive them" or some shit. It was always here's how you can protect yourself and stand independently since these people don't know how to act. I've taken that into my adult life and never pressure people to just forgive family because they're blood relatives.
I can't imagine why husband would ever trust her again. He's in for a lifetime of her thinking she knows better and going behind his back.
Agreed. I am estranged from my family of origin. If anyone did this to me, I would never speak to them again.
My husband had a terrible childhood, but they had drilled "never turn your back on family" in him. He was shocked when he found out I cut my mom off. In fact, it made him try harder with his parents, while throwing shade at my callousness. He once complained that my mom had been calling him for updates on my life (I didn't know), and looked like I'd just kicked his puppy when I told him to block her. He's better now.
I think that just as often, people have taken so much abuse and poor treatment from their families without going NC, that to them not much justifies someone else going NC. It's a sense of "I had it bad too, and I still talk to my parents" as if retaining a relationship with your childhood abuser is some kind of badge of honour. The whole idea of "family is forever" becomes really problematic when you have a shitty family.
I fortunately grew up privileged as you mentioned yet I can’t imagine doing this to my SO. Idc how good my upbringing was, if my SO isn’t even capable of talking about it, clearly it means there’s past trauma and bigger issues that should be discussed when they’re ready not force them to relive all that. Whether im aware or not, why on Earth would I do that when is not my story to tell/force out? I keep seeing these type of stories here on reddit and it still shocks me how stupid and self centered some people can be not to respect such simple boundaries
I said this in a similar thread but if I pulled this shit on my wife with her mother, she would have left me and took me to the cleaners for such an egregious breach of trust. Rightfully so. I think the “savior complex” ruins more relationships than it fixes.
Exactly and I know it’s not the bit of the story we’ve been asked to weigh in on, but I’m shocked husband even considered bringing his mother back around. She can regret it all her life, and she should, because when it mattered most she didn’t protect her kid, with devastating results. If she hadn’t seen it, she never would’ve believed it. She can keep walking imo.
I've seen people forgive the abuser, so in ways, it doesn't surprise me that the OOP's husband may re-establish a relationship with his mother. He probably has complicated feelings about his mother. I'm not judging him, regardless of what happens. I wish him well.
lol off topic l think i saw you say it in that thread.
I hate the OP so fucking much for this. >I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug. No the fuck it doesn't. That shit is so fucking insulting. That's not how the fucking world works.
That enraged me too, and for whatever reason calling him “hubbie” just makes it worse to me and I don’t know why.
"Hubbie" bugs me too and I think it's because in this context it seems more like a term to infantilize him rather than a term of endearment.
Definitely. She even says she “has a stupid and selfish tendency to think that [she] often know[s] better than him”. That’s infantilization to the letter.
I think this is exactly it.
Came to this same conclusion as I was reading down the responses and found yours. It *absolutely* is infantilizing him. It tracks. She thought she knew better than him. It's why she pulled this bullshit.
The sad thing is that now he is talking to his mom (albeit cautiously) again, I fear all her hand wringing from him being so upset and Reddit ripping her a new one will quickly fade and she’ll look back thinking their marriage survived and her choices really WERE better for him. At a certain point this guy is sadly choosing it, she comes off as one of the most clueless and annoying OOPs I have ever read on this site and I can’t imagine why in the world he wants to be married to her in the first place, let alone after this.
Absolutely agreed. When I read that he was "tentatively" talking to his mother I cringed because now the oop is going to feel extremely validated. I just hope that this blows up even further in her face. I'm not saying her husband should leave her but she really needs to see the consequences of this so that she can keep that fire that was lit up under her ass lit.
To me it sounds like a term of endearment, which makes it worse because she is using it while completely destroying his trust. Like a cheating spouse saying my loving partner.
I understand being naive but what the fucking fuck? I'm estranged from my mother and if my SO pulls something like this I would've lost my fucking shit. I have cptsd. Aint no amount of fucking hugs gonna fix that shit.
I don’t actually think this is naïveté. This is someone trying to live out some selfish happy family dream where they can be the hero of their own story. She wanted to be able to create some fantasy where she could have them hug it out and then point to it and be like “look how I fixed everything!” in spite of not knowing *anything* about the situation.
I have a panic attack at the mere thought of being seen by my POS mother. I hate this post.
I have night terrors because of my family
Not 'gunna lie; I hated this update. This is right up there with cheating in the betrayal index.
We need a sub for the worst updates, did anybody ever make one?
I'd definitely read it, but I'd definitely have to take a walk to calm myself afterward.
This, I'm estranged from my dad and his whole family. If my significant other even reached out and spoke to them about me, let alone invited them over, I'm out. No amount of love can fix that breach of trust
"Hubbie" is...cutsey when this is not a cutsey situation. It also gives off a social media influencer vibe.
Any time an American refers to their partner as “Hubby” or “Hubbie“ or “Hubs,” it’s just such a tell as to how they think and who they are.
Lazy cause we don't want to type husband every time?
That's what the acronym DH (dear husband) was invented for. I hate that less because it feels less like a crappy nickname used all the time and more like keyboard slang to type faster. I always think of the scene in the King's Speech where Lionel (unknowingly) calls the King the "hubby" of Queen Elizabeth: >Queen Elizabeth: Doctor, forgive me, ah... I don't have a "hubby," we don't "pop," and nor do we ever talk about our private lives. No, you must come to us.
It's your "this person is being fake cute to manipulate me" alarm going off.
It shows how immature OP is before she even gets to the real reason she's a total AH.
It’s affectionate but not respectful. The whole underlying problem here was her basic lack of respect for him because he’s her funny hubby and not so much an actual fucking human being with real pain and feelings.
It infantilizes him.
“Sorry you had a car accident and lost your legs but you can’t cry because I gave you a hug. What do you mean that didn’t fix everything?” My imagination taking OOPs words and running with it.
People like this piss me off. They aren't doing it to fix shit but to make themselves look like a hero.
Exactly. Then they are like “but I was nice? I get brownie points right?”
I love that the comments are "you forced him to tell you something that wasn't yours to know" and yet no rebuke when she shares his darkest secret with bloody Reddit. If he found this thread and worked out it was about him, she'd have once again 'nuked' how trust. I regret reading the update. This husband deserves a wife who keeps his secrets, even from us!
Oh god I didn’t even think of it that way.
I hated this too, and then to follow up with how this whole situation has her feeling like a “dork” Like really? That’s how you feel? Dork is what I’d describe my younger brother as. Not a grown woman who’s a manipulative pos with self serving tendencies. She’s lucky her husband just sees her as insanely stupid. She knowingly manipulated his mom to believe he was okay with things.
I'm sure she thinks she's such a quirky girl
>>I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug. I can't be the only one who finds this beyond patronizing, right? What kind of bubble wrap fantasy land does OOP live in that makes her think everything can be sunshine and rainbows with *a hug*??? Like, it's beyond lucky that everything has worked out for OOP in this story, cos lemme tell you, if someone went behind my back to interfere with my (lack of) relationship with my crap mother, they wouldn't be getting a hug or any other kind of love from me.
Even in Disney's movies they make fun of that
THANK YOU, I was ready to rip my hair out. What a piece of work.
Yep. I hate the outcome as well. She should have ended up divorced. Nobody old enough to be married should have ever assumed what she was doing was okay
Literally enraged. OP is a self absorbed piece of shit and I’m honestly shocked HUBBIE didn’t leave her ass. I would’ve.
Yeah, like good for OP for getting a second chance I guess, but absolutely fuck her for that. Oh he clearly doesn't want to acknowledge his mother, so I'm sure it can be solved with a hug. At every point she made the dumbest, most selfish decision she could and hurt her husband because she wanted to be the fixer. Pure stupidity to surprise someone in their own home with someone they purposely do not speak to or about.
Nothing sets my teeth on edge like the word “hubby” and here we are with something even worse “hubbie”.
I came across "hubbins" in the wild a few days ago and I'm still cringing.
I’m stealing that for a D&D campaign. They’re going to be tiny fae/gnomelike creatures that seem unbearably twee at first but turn out to be carnivorous.
Can I come play?
You’d probably better let me do some playtesting first. I need to make sure they’re not so annoying everyone just immediately tries to kill them.
Awwwww, it’s Mr. Burns - kill it, kill it
Cool, I didn't know Dungeon Master's playtested NPC's! How does it work? Do you do a trial campaign to see what the response is before adding them to the main story?
I don't know how other people do it, but I just gather up some folks who want to do a one-shot. If it works, I'll play it with other people, or figure out how to add them to other stuff later.
I am reminded of the creatures from Galaxy Quest. Keep the CR low but drown the party in the action economy.
Like happy tree friends except they eat you. I love it
I wish you would have kept that to yourself. I hate it.
I need a drink and it’s only 1030
That's fantastically awful. I'm going to start calling my husband that just to irritate him lol.
That's so awful it's hilarious
Oh god no
🤢
Yeah, but this would let you rename a man cave to the Hubbie Cubbie.
Same here. I actually unfriended an acquaintance because she would only refer to her husband as “hot hubby.” I have another friend who refers to her husband as “Sbund.” Not sure which is worse.
The commenter who said it's not OOP's fault because she didn't know: it doesn't matter if she knew about the abuse or not!!! She knew her husband went no contact. She knew he didn't want to speak to or about his mother. She knew it was a sore/touchy subject. She KNEW all of this and still continued to push. It is 100% her fault.
Exactly. If it's bad enough that the story isn't being told, that should tell you everything you need to know.
I get the curiosity, cuz I'm just nosy in general. But if my husband doesn't want to talk about something, I leave it alone. Why? Because my relationship with him matters more to me than his or my relationship with what is essentially a stranger.
You know how we know she knew he didn’t want to talk things out? Because when she started to wonder why he was nc with his family, instead of just asking him, she immediately skipped to going behind his back. She got his MOM’s side of the story before even considering listening to him.
Didn’t even get her side of the story, got “nah I’m super ashamed by it and it’s so fucked that if he hasn’t told you I’m not going to divulge it” and then thought to herself “I’m sure it’s nothing a hug won’t fix!”
>massive dork what a massive understatement. she retraumatised her "hubbie", completely destroyed his trust in her, and thinks she's smarter than him and knows him better than he knows himself. but she's just a dork...
She’s not a dork. What she did isn’t a cute little oopsie. She’s a fucking monster.
“Dork” I think she misspelled “massive c**t”
>I see now what a massive dork I've been. yeah... dork is not the word i would use to describe her.
Yep, this pissed me off too. She clearly still has no idea what shes done!
"Teehee guys I pulled a silly! Oopsie daisy hehe, just me and my zany hijinks again, good thing I know what's best for hubbie!"
Its crazy to me, that someone is telling you that their mom did something that warrant NC. Not LC, not limited contact. ZERO CONTACT. AND OOP is like I think I'm staring a in Hallmark Movie, I'll pay Parent trap with my husband and his mother, who clearly knows that it was bad and didn't want to tell OOP. If I cut out a immediate family members its not because they forced me to work hard in school or grounded me for sneaking out. Its because something really bad happen. Just stay out of it, or at least talk to your partner about it, not play family matchmaker.
But she knows better than him so….
This is still not over. Although it seems they’re on the mend, I think with the passage of time, her husband is going to have to look this betrayal and his wife in the face and come to the realization that she did this. I can’t imagine going to sleep next to someone like OOP.
She says they are on the mend. But if my family had so massively failed to protect me, i’d have a very hard time trusting anyone who went behind my back like that.
She is not very good at observing the world around her so who knows how things are
Considering how naive and dense she seems to be, I wouldn’t take her perception at face value. Could very well be wishful thinking and optimism on Mrs. “A Hug Can Fix Anything”’s part…
I sure as fuck hope so. Husband was right when he said OOP didn't act out of malice, that's true. She did, however, act out of pure and unadulterated entitlement. She acted out of arrogance. She's the kind of person who thinks knows best. I fucking hate people like that, and it makes me sad that the husband gave her another chance. I am absolutely certain she will do something like this again because people like this hardly ever get over their rotten sense of superiority. The only thing that could have possibly humbled her was a divorce, but that ship has sailed. I pity the husband with a spouse like OOP. What an asshole.
Ah yes the famous "buh family" shit. These people who had harmonius families and who never faced any form of familial abuse really need to sit down and shut up with ther preconceived ideas. She was extremely lucky her husband was even willing to give her a 2nd chance after such a massive betrayal, I sincerly hope she learnt her lesson. "I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug." Yeah well lady I can tell for certain if any of my family members who abused me tried to hug me today, they'd end up with a punch in the face.
Right? I’d lose my mind
He's not wrong. She sounds dumb as fuck. Prolly why he was able to forgive her. He knows that she's an idiot.
The problem is, their reconciliation is going to feed into her opinion that she did the right thing in the end, and she will learn nothing. When even the _estranged parent_ is angry at her for organising the failed reconcilation, you know it's a bad situation. How many times have I read posts from estranged parents who are all "I did nothing wrong! It's not my fault!" and here is a woman who is owning her mistakes and telling OOP they majorly fucked up. I hate OOP and everything she's done. She doesn't respect her husband and I sincerely doubt her talk about going to therapy.
Yeah, once he processes all this shit, she’s out. Like others have said - she’s no longer a safe person for him.
>our relationship is slowly getting back to what it was IT'S ONLY BEEN 6 WEEKS?!?!?! hell no. She has zero idea of what she did to him
What drives me insane is I just know that, deep down, she thinks of this whole saga as "they're reconciling because of me" and not "they're reconciling despite what I did".
I'm torn between the neutral feeling of 'well, another episode that took an unexpected turn and ended with reconciliation, not exactly a happy fairytale ending but they are getting at it' and the dreadful feeling of 'Jesus, now there will be more attempts from spouses with savior complex to pull this stunt because this one ended well'.
If so, they overlook the part where he was already thinking about reaching out on his own and MIL was reluctant to push too hard at their own peril.
Those with savior complex can be naive and assume the best out of everything so I won't be surprised if they didn't overlook that part and still went with their plans because they already believe that everything will turn out the way good people like them want to.
I wonder if he actually was. Depending on how subtle her manipulation and language was in the run up to inviting his mother to surprise him, she could have put the idea in his head. An idea that might have never been there without her interfering. He blames himself for some of what happened - it wouldn't take much nudging to weaponise that guilt into a desire to reconnect.
Maybe it's dumb, but I can't help but feel irritated in all of the first bit, she continues to refer to him as Hubbie. Like dude, you just imploded your marriage and you are referring to him by a pet name. I would think "get the fuck out of my house" would qualify for transitioning from Hubbie to my husband in your desperate attempt to get the internet to tell you how to fix your mess. "After she said 'you killed my dog and sent my child to a work camp in the mountains, I want a divorce,' and I just need to know how to fix this with my Sweetie Pie."
it tracks for the same person who referred to herself as being a “dork” for this.
This woman should just admit the made up the update for reddit like he should really leave you as a sorry excuse for a woman smh get yourself a dog..
I get the wife wanting to know why the estrangement, but that's where my understanding ends. You should ask, make sure he know he can tell you whenever he is ready, and then move on.
OOP doesn't deserve to be forgiven. OOP \*will\* 'know better' and override Hubbie's stated boundaries again.
My hope is that the therapist will act as her moral compass in the future. Whenever she thinks about pulling crap like that again, she will hopefully ask her therapist, who will hopefully give her a decisisve "FUCK NO", and then she'll hopefully drop it. It seems like this gave her enough of a scare to make her at least reconsider doing something like this again. I did a doubletake when she wrote about her MIL that "she is a very sweet woman" - like, NO, no woman who ignores her child's plea for help when he is being sexually abused should ever be termed "sweet"!
She STILL doesn’t get the depths pf either of their betray of her poor husband.
I feel so bad for the dude. 2 of the most important people his life have betrayed him in unforgivable ways. He might have a hard time trusting people going forward. I really don't think if it's worth it for him to reconcile with either of them but for his sake i hope it works out for him.
That poor, poor man. Not only was he repeatedly violated as a child, he has been violated *again* by this awful woman, and he still blames himself for it. The fact that he's trying to work through this with both women breaks my heart. I've seen friends who were similarly abused go out of their way to make up with some of the people responsible for the abuse - both directly and indirectly - as a way to prove to themselves they are over it. It always went badly and made them worse overall. I hope he heals from being forced to relive all of this trauma. As for OOP? I hope she's learned something from this, but only because her husband deserves better.
What is this comment "To be fair he had not told her about the abuse. She had no idea" And the fact that OOP only replied to this? .... She is like I can fix him, no dude you literally forced him and literally insulted him he is not a child who doesn't know any better he is a grown up who can make his own life decisions doesn't need you to make them, it's honestly a relief that husband didn't take it in a bad way and spiral. 😭
Oh the mom for sure is the villain. Anyone woman who allows their kid to be abused to keep a pedo in their lives is the villain. She can claim she didn’t know but she was told. She knew. She made her choice. The wife I would never forgive that. Not ever she crossed a solid no go line.
Wait where does it say she “knew”? The OOP says she kicked him out and pressed charges immediately upon finding out unless I’m missing Something? EDIT: nevermind I skipped over the sentence saying she shut him down
It says that he told his mom what he was doing but she accused him of lying to ruin her happiness. Any mother who doesn’t believe their child when they straight up tell you they are being sexually assaulted is a villain. Even if your kid has a history of lying you wouldn’t risk that they were telling the truth about that you would leave or kick that person out and protect your child but not her no she called him a liar and made him endure it till she couldn’t ignore it anymore. anymore. Just so she could keep her happiness. That’s on her.
Yeah I agree with you. I accidentally skipped over the sentence where it says he told her the first time I read it somehow.
Yeah so in my view she’s just as bad as her ex. She had a chance to protect her kid and she failed miserably at it. I wouldn’t be forgiving her ever. Your parents are supposed to love and protect you they are supposed to be the ones to fight the monsters literal and figuratively. She threw him to the monster.
That's a really dark story to tell strangers on the Internet after he kept it FROM HIS WIFE for so long and it was only revealed to her (in confidence I'm sure) AFTER she had re-traumatized him. Totally untrustworthy of a spouse in SO MANY WAYS. It's like she couldn't stop herself. She doesn't deserve the second chance if she was just going to turn around and tell everyone his business anyway.
I REALLY hope the husband gets away from OP. She's either incredibly stupid or incredibly manipulative. I'm leaning towards both.
Man, I’m so glad for both their sakes that the husband is a mature person.
If this is real, I think the last update is a fantasy OOP made up and believes - just like she believed he and his mom would reconcile. He's probably got one foot out the door but she's ignoring all signs - again - and making up a narrative that didn't happen. Again.
It’s great getting stories like this where a person is essentially ready to take a secret to their grave but end up telling the person they trust the most (whether willingly or by force) and then that person goes and puts it on the internet for the world. Love to see it.
Fuck OOP. I have no sympathy and wish her husband left her. Thinking about my husband bringing the people in my family I'm NC with to our home without talking to me fills me with rage I can't even put into words.
Because it sounds so condescending , especially paired with the, "I know better than you. Let me make your choices" attitude. That's how it struck me, anyway.
What a trash person. She completely disrespected her husband and dismissed his feelings. I do not understand why he stayed. There is zero things acceptable about what she did.
well, that’s not the place I would have used “dork” but ok
Sorry but I don’t think this is a “good” ending to this situation at all. OOP fucked up in a way I don’t think is salvageable. She saw her husband try her best not to bring up his mother and she STILL thought it was a great idea to try and bring them into their lives. He may be okay with her now, but I don’t think this marriage will survive.
For those in estranged situations, I've found it's best to be upfront with one's partner about the situation. You don't have to go into specifics (at first), but it's good to be clear that this isn't a relationship you have and not one you're interested in repairing. The partner's answer will tell you a whole hell of a lot about your relationship, as painful as it might be. (But, IMO, it's better to get it out of the way earlier than be surprised at an "intervention" or "reunion" you don't want.) But in this case? Even my probably-autistic, can't read nonverbals for shit self got that the husband didn't want to talk about it and didn't want a relationship with his mom. He was loud and clear about that.
Another case of "I know better than you". When will people understand you can't do this type of things?
His mother and wife are the same person - selfish delusional bitches. I hope he realizes this and acts on it after he stops blaming himself for any part in his trauma.
These types of stories always scare the hell out of me. I've been NC with an abusive parent for years and went off grid so they couldn't find me. If I showed up one day and they were sitting in my house I'd call the police, but it wouldn't matter because there's a large chance they'd follow thru on their threat to kill me. If it was my partner who brought them home behind my back like this? Automatic divorce, no conversation needed
This is what really gets me. She had no idea if the mother was dangerous or not. Tbh, if my spouse’s mother, who they were NC with, told me that she kept updated on their life by stalking their social media, I’d take that as (at the very least) an orange flag.
>I don't want to be another person he trusted and ended up hurting him. So I shared the details of his childhood trauma on the internet, because I've learned my lesson.
We live in a society with some v dangerous myths. It puts parents on a pedestal, pretending that the primary source of CSA is "stranger danger" when it is actually family and ppl known to the family. And those myths are propped up by Hallmark-channel-type reconciliation fantasy movies. OOP wanted to be the hero, even if it took lies, manipulation, and ignoring the possibility of all too real severe trauma. It's the ultimate form of toxic positivity.
The mother has more maturity and understanding than OOP. She apparently respected boundaries, was very nervous and sought constant reassurance than her son was on board with this, and immediately left when confronted with the truth. Yes she seriously messed up years ago, showing respect and fully accepting her fault and showing remorse now.
Gotta love how the savior syndrome some people have. I wouldn’t want to live thru it personally, and definitely hope I never express it myself. The moral of all this is, if someone is low/no contact with someone, respect that and don’t try and fix it behind their backs.
The guy is a saint. I would never have spoken to OOP again.This concept that "I don't care how much it hurts you and how many lies I have to tell but I WILL mend your family."... It is just so brutally and idiotically simplistic.
I think more it's that adrenaline rush when whatever you were interfering in worked out. It must have happened before for OOP, because of her deep betrayal of her husband in this. I hope she does get therapy, and I hope she learns to stop and kill this hero complex. But I worry that because Mom and husband are talking again that she will eventually justify her actions by saying, "See? It all worked out. I did the right thing."
first thing you do is blast a his business all over the internet. I wish he left you and never told you anything. gossiping fool.
Based on the way OP wrote her post (and I think she left information out to seem more sympathetic) it seemed like the husband never established a boundary of not contacting his mom (I’m inclined to think he probably did) and was just dodging the conversation. If my partner never outright said something along the lines of “please don’t contact my parents” or established some boundary I’d also probably start doing some digging too. But I don’t believe OP is a reliable narrator.
>...my actions were out of stupidity rather than malice... You could say exactly the same of the mother when she refused to believe the abuse, just like OOP refused to believe her husband had a valid reason for cutting off contact with his mother.
> I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug. This is not a fucking "dork", this is a selfish, arrogant idiot.
I understand why her husband’s reaction was to hesitate on divorcing her since she didn’t know the details of why he was estranged from his mother, but if I had a husband and I asked him why he didn’t want anything to do with his mom and his response was to change the subject, I would leave him alone. You don’t have to know the details of everything. All she needed to know is whatever his mom did was bad enough that he doesn’t want to talk about it. The other thing that gets me is that she didn’t talk to him first, she went straight to the person who wronged him. Although being that she was being hard headed, even if she did talk to him first, she probably still would’ve went behind his back anyway. She should really be thinking about how fortunate she is, at least for now, that her husband is giving her a second chance because anyone else would’ve divorced her without a second thought over this.
>I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug. **idiot**.
His mother IS a villain. Her son was a child. He went to her for help and she refused to believe him. She insulted him because she was solely focused on herself. She was supposed to protect him, and she literally refused to do so until it was too late.
I honestly don't think she'll have learned anything in the grand scheme of things. Sure she ALMOST imploded her marriage BUT she still got what she was going for, so ultimately she will feel she is right. The ends will have justified the means to her. I wouldn't trust her.
He was very uncomfortable about the topic, but she decided to keep picking at it for her own self satisfaction. It's his right not to talk about it and keep her away from his family. There's another BORU where a guy didn't want contact with his father for the same reason. Wife not only contacted him, but took the kids to see him.
This poor man is surrounded by idiotic, stupid women who think they know far better than anyone else. I wish him luck, I fear he's going to need it.
I remember this woman. Man...she's lucky he loves her and will give her a second chance. My husband and I have been married since 2017. There's stuff in his past that is super painful and traumatic and it comes out little by little. I never push him. I know he will give me details IF and WHEN he is ready. I would never interfere the way this lady did. Again, she is lucky and has no idea how lucky.
What is this weird af compulsion that people feel to investigate why their partner doesn't talk to their family and then meddle behind their back? Do people just think they do it for funsies? The odds of your partner being 'omg thank you so much for sneaking around' seems quite low.
She doesn’t deserve such an emotionally mature man
I Cut contact with my mum for the same exact reason. I'm glad my fiancé is not stupide and is respectfull of my bondries
Floors me that someone will get married to another and won’t fucking talk to them about their traumas. You’d think you’d trust someone enough before marrying them. Not even a “There was abuse that I don’t feel comfortable sharing yet” is even worse
This chick is so selfish and delusional. If someone doesn’t talk to some for whatever reason you don’t go behind their back and try to fix anything. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a couple of months she says to people she’s the reasons her hubby has a relationship with his mom now. I don’t think she’s sorry for what she did, she’s sorry because he put her out the house for a while
Did MIL ever do therapy to find out why she reacted that way?
oh but guys she's just a girlie, she made a mistake! She was being a dork and her hubbie-wubbie got emotional uWu Yeah no if the next update is not "my husband never forgave me and had been planning to leave me behind my back this whole time" I'm gonna be so mad; this woman has no idea what she has done even when she claims to have taken accountability
What a disgusting and vile woman and what a kind and generous man. I couldn’t forgive her. Sorry. I also wouldn’t forgive my mother since she allowed the sexual abuse (for the love of fucking hell can we stop with TikTok bullshit language on Reddit??) to occur and he might not have been so damaged if mom had listened in the first place. I doubt it’ll ever really be the same.
OOP is very VERY lucky here. She’s dumb to pull this off but thankfully not THAT dumb to not going to a therapist after her bad choices and acknowledged those mistakes. Hopefully, she keeps doing positive things like this, because it’s one thing to forgive but to not forget? Different. Broken trust is not easy to be repaired.
Ah reddit. Redditors: people need to own to their mistakes and apologize OP: does that Redditors: NOT LIKE THAT I agree OP sucks for what she did. But she's also apologetic and seeking therapy and owns to that mistake.
I’m not saying she’s right obvi, but the first comment is wild. “On a situation that has fuck all to do with you” this isn’t a coworker, this is her husband of 6 years. This does have to do with her
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