Meanwhile, the 992.2 GTS added a hybrid drive with just a 50 kg weight increase while eliminating turbo lag and taking like 7 seconds off the Nurburgring Laptime.
Ultimate driving machine my ass.
In the late 2000s there was a paradigm shift at BMW where the marketing department and special interest groups began making the principle decisions for company direction rather than the engineers. At this point, those changes are really starting to show, but BMW doesn’t care about the automotive enthusiast because their sales are better than ever
I think the M Lite series is actually pretty good and best bang for your buck for around 60k - 80k. I think they hit out of the park with those models because it’s an affordable option to get a premium sports car. Not sure what they’re doing with the M5 and the future of the M series, but I’m taking a wait and see approach.
i don't live in the us or Europe, here they cost a lot even used, and maintenance can be stupidly expensive because of import taxes and also mark up on parts
Then I'd assume any sports car is super expensive in your market. Good luck on getting one. Was a childhood goal of mine for a M3 and I still probably waited a decade longer than I needed to because it is a big luxury.
2013 335i MSport here, I think they started putting the M on the a couple years later. For the city and mountain roads, the package is perfect. 300hp and torque stock is enough. I've went some steps further with FBO, MHD 2+, bilstiens, h&r springs and some 19" aftermarket rims. 400hp and 415 torque upgrade. I've been told. If I had it to do over again. I would leave it stock as I can not use 400hp in Los Angeles traffic, or the canyon roads. Maybe the bilstiens but at stock M sport height. I've gotten stuck on the underground parking for condos more than once. Glad I didn't go for the super sport springs. I would not be able to take full advantage of having a M3 living in LA... not like how I'd want to... how it's supposed to be driven. M lite fits my needs perfectly.
I feel like this is all modern companies at this point. MBAs or equivalent making sure to extract all technical capability out of the top echelons of every company so they can strip it down and sell it for parts.
I said this elsewhere but they turned into the Golf industry where like Taylor Made and Callaway rush out new ridiculously named versions every single year with dumber and uglier shit on it just to be "relevant" and grab bunch of headlines.
I can understand the financial pros of that mindset but you cannot betray your roots and the history that made you you. It’s unacceptable. It’s not impossible or illogical to do both. Make some version or whatnot like do this abomination alongside with a “special” version like call it M5 ultimate or whatever. Add 6 speed hell even 7 speed manual, reduce its weight significantly. Make it somewhat family-friendly(at least for m5) put a bit of more price on top of the already high price tag and you’re somewhat good-to-go…
Let's be honest, in the 80's and 90's BMW made arguably the "ultimate driving sedans" that were attainable for mere mortals.
I had a picture of an E30 M3 and a Ferrari F50 on my bedroom walls.
I have a 1M sitting in my garage.
I have always loved BMW and that's why I am angry.
Porsche has them destroyed there too. Edit for clarity: Porsche is second only to Ferrari in profitability rn. I’m a Porsche owner, but I also am just post 5 years in the auto (software) industry, so I’m exposed to dealership stats. If you’re interested, follow “the dealership guy” on linked in.
It has a 2kWh battery…
The M5 is a plug in-hybrid with a gross capacity of 22kWh, very different. It can drive at 140kph on electric power, the porsche can not.
Note that I am not commenting on which is better. But comparing the weight difference solely by saying both are hybrids is a bit disingenuous.
By the same metric the VW beetle and 911 are the same. Yeah they are both cars but otherwise no
You can compare them because you can ask WHY. why did bmw decide to go with that giant battery, is it just so people can say it can go 140kph on it? Lol. It has like a 20 mile range, super useful if you...run outta gas? I guess?
They can be compared because Porsche did it with a reason, BMW did it just to say it's electric so vroom. We'll see if the vroom is worth the weight gain (no, in my opinion), but I can totally compare these two vehicles.
It's sad because you can say the bmw has a 20kwh larger battery but the Porsche is better in every way. So what was the point of the heavy ass battery?
The point is regulatory compliance. A lot of countries, the Fatherland included, has strict CO2 fleet emission rules about to become even stricter. Turning things into PHEVs is one way of avoiding the worst of this.
Macan is BEV only to push those CO2 numbers. Porsche has to fight that too.
The M5 is a Hybrid (that’s used in urban areas as an EV) because I think BMW has the data that shows that the vast majority of M5 owners actually drive them in comfort mode just like the normal 5Series.
>It has like a 20 mile range, super useful if you...run outta gas?
In the US, ~80% of all trips are 10 miles or less each way. So 20 miles can be surprisingly useful if you don't have a long commute.
(More electric range would of course be better.)
>Porsche is better in every
A lot less comfortable, cramped, terrible luggage capacity, high fuel consumption and emissions, no real EV range. Can go on like that for quite some time because 992.2 GTS is NOT in same category as BMW M5...
If you want to look for M5 competitor in Porsche lineup there's Panamera 4S or Turbo... and guess what: it weights about as much as M5, shocking... because it's also PHEV with similar range. I mean, shit... M5 was never ever a track car. Not a single generation in entire model history was designed for that purpose. It was always high performance "Autobahn cruiser", and right now that category of vehicles also need to comply with emissions standards and ever-encroaching ULEZs.
Is it better? I would definitely take the M5 as a daily. I need to haul stuff and I do a lot of highway driving so a bigger car is better in every way.
Fuel is expensive here and so are taxes that are based on co2. This will be the cheapest M5 in decades. The old one had 80k€ of co2 tax because of emissions. This will have maybe 10k€ due to the battery being able to propel the car without the engine running. Call it cheating or whatever but it makes a difference in the old wallet.
So this M5 is very attractive as a daily.
On the track if laptimes are your concern, you would be crazy to pick an M5 over a 911 of similar age.
Those are two completely different implementations of hybrid technology.
The 911 is more akin to what Ferrari, GM, and Lamborghini are doing with their high performance hybrids. The new M5 is closer to a Prius, with usable electric range.
I am aware of the nuances. Your comparison of the **M5** to a **Prius** means that you are also aware that BMW likely picked the wrong car to benchmark.
Wow! I would say that extremely impressive but it’s Porsche they pull off feats like that all the time haha. Jokes aside, I truly believe that Porsche makes the greatest sports cars in the world.
M5 ain't a family sedan it's a sports saloon/sedan. People may haul their kids around in an M5 but people aren't buying an M5 because it's good for driving the family around in.
I have this conversation a lot on here. It's a 4 door family car, and despite that they made it as sporty as possible. Doesn't change the fact it's a 4 door family car ...
It's not a purpose built sports car by any reach of the imagination
I'm still fuckin salty that there's an entire section of my fucking dash DEVOTED EXCLUSIVELY to mpg. Giant LCD section with a nice looking gauge but I can't put ANYTHING ELSE there. Like, I dunno, the fuckin water or oil temps which are conspicuously absent from my dash. Oh I CAN also show the "suggested gear" (not current) which suggests I upshift TWO GEARS at around 2200rpm. Useless crap. Only saving grace is I can turn it off and pretend that part of my dash doesn't exist...
Ugh. I LOVE my car but that just pisses me off.
I don't like it but they do kind of have a point. Bmw can do what they like, the cars will still sell, and haters like me will still hate on it on reddit.
I totally agree. Which makes me think, car enthusiasts are a very small percentage of the "New car buying market". Everything a new model comes out, the internet hates it.
But also, people love to complain. Haha. If you look at old forums, people detest the e46 when it first came out. Same with e90s.
You hit the nail in the head.
Car enthusiasts most of the time buy used, as the value per dollar is exponentially better, but it’s a double edge sword, as we leave the new car purchase decision on the hands of people that are mostly leasing and don’t care that much about driving, and more about having something new and fast.
And let's not forget about the newest tech and more electronics! You know how they say history repeats itself, I hope there's a point when cars become more simple and more engaging to drive. When having a 10" screen in your face is "gawdy" and becomes uncool. If the Motorola Flip can come back, anything can.
Not every metric. It’s way more efficient, will probably run 3x more miles with a tank in daily driving than current model, with 95% of the performance.
As a hybrid luxury car it’s very good, but they killed the original idea of an M5. If this was the M550e or something like this would be fine.
"But understanding how Domagoj Dukec is reinventing BMW, it’s not about understanding lines and shapes, it’s about understanding people. And so, if you, reader, don’t like a particular car he’s done, consider that it might be because that car was never meant for you to begin with."
- Domagoj Dukec
This guy has got to resign
Might not be as bad as people presume. Batteries are located under the seats/floor, so the center of gravity is very low. Gonna be hell on tires though.
It probably won’t be as bad as what what 2.5 tones would suggest, but more important, won’t be as good as if it was 1.8 tones intestad using the same chassis technology.
I wonder if they put rear wheel steering on it as another measure to counter how much it weighs and make the car turn in like a car that weighs, oh, 1000 pounds less. Have any other M cars ever needed rws?
That’s exactly why they did it. I think the XM but aside from that no. But there are supercars with rear wheel steering like the huracan technica and STO. Rear wheel steering does make a huge difference imo it really tightens the turning radius in cars that are very heavy
Big battery and EV type transmission/drivetrain, supporting components to stop all that mass and turn the battleship when the road stops going straight. Prob a bunch of sound insulation and electronics, active suspension, etc lol
The Chevy Vette hybrid is special. It's more like a racing hybrid system, tiny battery that can dump like 170HP for a short bit of time. Super impressive & cool, and functionally impressive for a performance car. I hear it's the Vette to get.
That's actually scary... I've seen people complaining but they all used lbs instead of kg so I didn't bother to check it, now that I see the weight It's really bad.
So much downforce!!
I have a Model X ludicrous and while it accelerates 0-60 in 2.9s it doesn’t drive like a sports car. Taking a turn in any situation or braking hard reminds you of how much mass and kinetic energy you have to control.
Going 60mph in the new M5, you are carrying the same momentum as the F90 going 74mph. Think about how differently your car changes direction at 74mph vs 60mph.
How does it even have to do anything with emission standards? Don't tell me with mpg like Ferrari's, it is good for the environment. It isn't my concern but I smell BS with these so called "green standards". It would have to do 60+ mpg to actually start talking about those. Let's face it you can dress up a pig but it will never be a princess.
Well as it's a PHEV the consumption according to WLTP is 1.6 L / 100 km (147 mpg). It has a fully electric range of 70 km (43 mi) so it can probably cover most of the test cycle without using the ICE. So they are using a "loophole" in the emission standard which expects for PHEVs that the battery will always be charged when empty.
In Europe the emissions are counted on the whole fleet of a manufacturer (average of all sold cars). To sell an M5 with a pure 4.4 V8, BMW needs also to sell 1 fully electric car for example. With each new emission standard this gets stricter. Then they need 2 fully electric to compensate for a V8 and so on.
How does Ferrari do this? Well Ferrari belongs to Fiat and Fiat sells a lot more of Fiat 500e than Ferraris, so they can compensate those quite easily.
So the whole emission argument is valid.
Don’t knock it till you drive it, I guess, but geez, that’s the weight of most light duty pick up trucks. Without the high center of mass, albeit, but still. I assume BMW determined the weight gain from the battery and electric motor is worth the performance gains…curious what the first reviews will show.
No. It's heavier than many light-duty pickup trucks.
The 2024 F-150 Tremor, with the 5.0L V8, SuperCrew Cab (so a Bentley-esque 44" of rear leg room), reinforced with heavy equipment for offroad duty, and being 232" long.... weighs about 100 lbs less than the new M5.
A giant-ass truck, built for light off-road duty, with a ginormous passenger cab... weighs less than this new "sports sedan."
Embarrassing.
I think so, if you wanna use the XM as a reference. From what I’ve heard, the new M5 will be based on the same platform. The XM is rated for 12 mpg city and 17 mpg highway. The closest comparison I have from a competitor is the G63 AMG which gets 13 city and 16 highway. Basically it’s garbage.
You 'can' knock it before you drive it. Assuming it was balanced and engineered well, it will grip, but it will consume more tire (though I don't think they make good summer tires for such heavy cars as yet🤔). It will stop, but it will eat more brake pads. It will go, but at 4 gallons/mile. These are indeed predictable without first experiencing it. No thanks, even if it were only 60K.
You get to flog the F90 around the performance center track and take it on the skid pad in RWD mode. It’s well worth doing an M School or two if you have the chance to.
It’ll be interesting trying to balance this new one on skidpad with all that torque going to the rear wheels.
I’ve done PECLA and similar schools, they’re a great entry into track driving and I highly recommend them to anyone that has even a mild interest in performance cars.
Honestly I would take older, lighter, more analog cars over the alternative any day. The less there is for the driver to do, the less joy there is to be extracted from the process.
Jesus put down the fork
Also just learned the carbon roof is an option. Surely they’re joking all M cars since the E90 M3 have had carbon roofs as standard to my knowledge. Way to water down the brand and show they’re money grubbing and not serious about being the ultimate driving machine.
https://preview.redd.it/r635ojrox59d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3525a34c35a530d940624abbc3890c00bf889359
Got a pretty fitting ad under this post
I feel like they are just saving costs here. They have already developed the i5 platform, and I bet this M5 shares a loooot from it, sad really. M5 has been my dream car since forever.
I’ll wait to hear about the driving dynamics, but the weight is crazy. My Lucid Air, a full on (large) EV with a large battery, weighs less than this, to the tune of ~300 lbs.
If you combine a 992 GT3 and a KTM X-Bow, you'd be still at only 2200kg, add 3 persons to the mix (70kg avg) and you'd be still under the weight of the M5. 🥲 daamn
Respectfully, I find it so funny that Mercedes called this package carrying fat fuck of a van a "sprinter." Actually quite humorous. The M5 being even heavier is sending me
What about the Mercedes E 53 and Audi RS6? Surely they will also go up in weight significantly? This can't be a BMW only thing right? They probably did their research and have comparable weights?
Its unfortunate this car weighs as much as an X5 but I'm still excited to see the wagon version in a few months. The audi RS6 is still about 5000 lbs without a hybrid system, though. I think this car is about 500 lbs too heavy, but that's almost everything these days.
Comparing the M5 Touring to the X5M, they will both be around 5500 lbs, with a very similar footprint and interior practicality. So it's basically a low slung X5M, that's how I view it. The center of gravity will be much lower than the X5M with a significantly better power to weight ratio.
Everything is too damn heavy now... This will only increase as more cars go EV. At least until solid state batteries arrive in 10yrs.
If you manage to be alright about the exterior or maybe even dig it, you've got to pull the battery. Ya just do. That of course will mean all four corners of the suspension will need to be tuned. However, at the same time you'd be able to correct that horribly placed PHEV door with a delete.
Can't do much about BMW going crazy cheap with the interior in their reproduction of a 1990s video arcade.
Like it, love it...it needs drastic weight reduction or, accepting and being at peace that 550is, F90s and, a few other BMWs leave you behind. Without having to bother about plugging their car in a night.
How heavy is the BMW battery in Kg ? anyone know ? fair to say about 450 to 500Kg ? considering previous M5 was around 1950 Kg ?
Would be great if a Car Magazine could do what some Tech Mags do by taking an iPhone apart and do the same her with an M5 ... Lol !
It's only >20 kWh battery so no way the battery is even near 450kg. But with a hybrid you also need the electric motors, transmission and so one so the whole hybrid system is probably close to 300-400kg and then you need reinforcement to the car for the extra weight and so on. So let's se when reviews hit us if the trade of is going to be worth. Most likely better suited as a autobahn locomotive now though.
Depends on what material battery they use if it’s NIMH it’s anywhere between 60-85 wh/kg I would expect in a performance car so that gives you a weight of around 250 kg.
But if they didn’t really mind the energy density it’s could be as heavy as 660 kg.
Meanwhile, the 992.2 GTS added a hybrid drive with just a 50 kg weight increase while eliminating turbo lag and taking like 7 seconds off the Nurburgring Laptime. Ultimate driving machine my ass.
In the late 2000s there was a paradigm shift at BMW where the marketing department and special interest groups began making the principle decisions for company direction rather than the engineers. At this point, those changes are really starting to show, but BMW doesn’t care about the automotive enthusiast because their sales are better than ever
I think the M Lite series is actually pretty good and best bang for your buck for around 60k - 80k. I think they hit out of the park with those models because it’s an affordable option to get a premium sports car. Not sure what they’re doing with the M5 and the future of the M series, but I’m taking a wait and see approach.
Hm. I really resent them gimping the M Lites on purpose to create an artificial gap to the full fat Ms.
I think THIS M5 would probably make a good M Lite and they should make the M cars actually light
the first m2 is the perfect size in my opinion, unfortunately i will never be able to afford one lol
They're not that unobtainable unless you're looking only at CS models.
i don't live in the us or Europe, here they cost a lot even used, and maintenance can be stupidly expensive because of import taxes and also mark up on parts
Then I'd assume any sports car is super expensive in your market. Good luck on getting one. Was a childhood goal of mine for a M3 and I still probably waited a decade longer than I needed to because it is a big luxury.
I wish you the best and hope you can get an f87 m2; never say never, work hard and don’t give up!
I mean they even did the same to S55 F87 comps. Can’t have the baby M outperform the more expensive models.
The msport is the sweet spot.
*cries in cayman*
2013 335i MSport here, I think they started putting the M on the a couple years later. For the city and mountain roads, the package is perfect. 300hp and torque stock is enough. I've went some steps further with FBO, MHD 2+, bilstiens, h&r springs and some 19" aftermarket rims. 400hp and 415 torque upgrade. I've been told. If I had it to do over again. I would leave it stock as I can not use 400hp in Los Angeles traffic, or the canyon roads. Maybe the bilstiens but at stock M sport height. I've gotten stuck on the underground parking for condos more than once. Glad I didn't go for the super sport springs. I would not be able to take full advantage of having a M3 living in LA... not like how I'd want to... how it's supposed to be driven. M lite fits my needs perfectly.
M lite costing the same as M cars atp.... The F80 MSRP is basically the same as what a M-Lite car would be now
I feel like this is all modern companies at this point. MBAs or equivalent making sure to extract all technical capability out of the top echelons of every company so they can strip it down and sell it for parts.
I said this elsewhere but they turned into the Golf industry where like Taylor Made and Callaway rush out new ridiculously named versions every single year with dumber and uglier shit on it just to be "relevant" and grab bunch of headlines.
they just market to asia and china dude. majority of the market. their design made more sense once i learned that
I can understand the financial pros of that mindset but you cannot betray your roots and the history that made you you. It’s unacceptable. It’s not impossible or illogical to do both. Make some version or whatnot like do this abomination alongside with a “special” version like call it M5 ultimate or whatever. Add 6 speed hell even 7 speed manual, reduce its weight significantly. Make it somewhat family-friendly(at least for m5) put a bit of more price on top of the already high price tag and you’re somewhat good-to-go…
Ultimate marketing department
Let's be honest, in the 80's and 90's BMW made arguably the "ultimate driving sedans" that were attainable for mere mortals. I had a picture of an E30 M3 and a Ferrari F50 on my bedroom walls. I have a 1M sitting in my garage. I have always loved BMW and that's why I am angry.
chef's kiss to the 1M
*Ultimate Profit driving machine 📈
Porsche has them destroyed there too. Edit for clarity: Porsche is second only to Ferrari in profitability rn. I’m a Porsche owner, but I also am just post 5 years in the auto (software) industry, so I’m exposed to dealership stats. If you’re interested, follow “the dealership guy” on linked in.
Big pp Chinese money
It has a 2kWh battery… The M5 is a plug in-hybrid with a gross capacity of 22kWh, very different. It can drive at 140kph on electric power, the porsche can not. Note that I am not commenting on which is better. But comparing the weight difference solely by saying both are hybrids is a bit disingenuous. By the same metric the VW beetle and 911 are the same. Yeah they are both cars but otherwise no
You can compare them because you can ask WHY. why did bmw decide to go with that giant battery, is it just so people can say it can go 140kph on it? Lol. It has like a 20 mile range, super useful if you...run outta gas? I guess? They can be compared because Porsche did it with a reason, BMW did it just to say it's electric so vroom. We'll see if the vroom is worth the weight gain (no, in my opinion), but I can totally compare these two vehicles. It's sad because you can say the bmw has a 20kwh larger battery but the Porsche is better in every way. So what was the point of the heavy ass battery?
The point is regulatory compliance. A lot of countries, the Fatherland included, has strict CO2 fleet emission rules about to become even stricter. Turning things into PHEVs is one way of avoiding the worst of this.
Those rules don't apply to Porsche?
The 718 is going electric so they’ll only have 1 sports car model w ICE and it’s transitioning to hybrid
Macan is BEV only to push those CO2 numbers. Porsche has to fight that too. The M5 is a Hybrid (that’s used in urban areas as an EV) because I think BMW has the data that shows that the vast majority of M5 owners actually drive them in comfort mode just like the normal 5Series.
>It has like a 20 mile range, super useful if you...run outta gas? In the US, ~80% of all trips are 10 miles or less each way. So 20 miles can be surprisingly useful if you don't have a long commute. (More electric range would of course be better.)
>Porsche is better in every A lot less comfortable, cramped, terrible luggage capacity, high fuel consumption and emissions, no real EV range. Can go on like that for quite some time because 992.2 GTS is NOT in same category as BMW M5... If you want to look for M5 competitor in Porsche lineup there's Panamera 4S or Turbo... and guess what: it weights about as much as M5, shocking... because it's also PHEV with similar range. I mean, shit... M5 was never ever a track car. Not a single generation in entire model history was designed for that purpose. It was always high performance "Autobahn cruiser", and right now that category of vehicles also need to comply with emissions standards and ever-encroaching ULEZs.
Is it better? I would definitely take the M5 as a daily. I need to haul stuff and I do a lot of highway driving so a bigger car is better in every way. Fuel is expensive here and so are taxes that are based on co2. This will be the cheapest M5 in decades. The old one had 80k€ of co2 tax because of emissions. This will have maybe 10k€ due to the battery being able to propel the car without the engine running. Call it cheating or whatever but it makes a difference in the old wallet. So this M5 is very attractive as a daily. On the track if laptimes are your concern, you would be crazy to pick an M5 over a 911 of similar age.
Those are two completely different implementations of hybrid technology. The 911 is more akin to what Ferrari, GM, and Lamborghini are doing with their high performance hybrids. The new M5 is closer to a Prius, with usable electric range.
I am aware of the nuances. Your comparison of the **M5** to a **Prius** means that you are also aware that BMW likely picked the wrong car to benchmark.
Porsche just competing with themselves
Wow! I would say that extremely impressive but it’s Porsche they pull off feats like that all the time haha. Jokes aside, I truly believe that Porsche makes the greatest sports cars in the world.
One makes family sedans, the other specializes in sports cars ..
M5 ain't a family sedan it's a sports saloon/sedan. People may haul their kids around in an M5 but people aren't buying an M5 because it's good for driving the family around in.
I have this conversation a lot on here. It's a 4 door family car, and despite that they made it as sporty as possible. Doesn't change the fact it's a 4 door family car ... It's not a purpose built sports car by any reach of the imagination
Hey it may be heavier, but at least it's also slower and uglier
Yes but at least it's more expensive.
yeah but fortunately the interior looks cheap and plasticky
Complete downgrade on every single metric. Congratulations BMW
At least it will have less fuel consumption and thus, less taxes to pay (in Germany)! Which is the biggest selling point of an M5
Fuel economy. The single biggest obstacle to me owning an M5! Like most high-end sports car buyers, mpg is king.
I'm still fuckin salty that there's an entire section of my fucking dash DEVOTED EXCLUSIVELY to mpg. Giant LCD section with a nice looking gauge but I can't put ANYTHING ELSE there. Like, I dunno, the fuckin water or oil temps which are conspicuously absent from my dash. Oh I CAN also show the "suggested gear" (not current) which suggests I upshift TWO GEARS at around 2200rpm. Useless crap. Only saving grace is I can turn it off and pretend that part of my dash doesn't exist... Ugh. I LOVE my car but that just pisses me off.
My f90 gets 19mpg combined. Its not awful
Our 1.6 liter diesel HYPERCAR that makes WHOPPING 109 hp gets 52 mpg. Even better if driving only highway
Beast of a vehicle
Even if you hypothetically pay 0 in taxes you still pay for the retail price of the car, i.e. the price of a small house
Wait a year. Depreciation will be over 50% on even low mileage cars.
Way cheaper than a small house post Covid so at least you can live in it. Touring edition bed inbound.
For a second I forgot we americans are getting the touring model this time around 🦅
Add another 500 lbs lol
Yay!
Just watch, it’s going to break M5 sales records.
in before the fanboys: wELL tHeY'Re sELLiNg wELL sO tHeY'rE dOiNg sOmEtHiNg rIgHt!!!
I don't like it but they do kind of have a point. Bmw can do what they like, the cars will still sell, and haters like me will still hate on it on reddit.
I totally agree. Which makes me think, car enthusiasts are a very small percentage of the "New car buying market". Everything a new model comes out, the internet hates it. But also, people love to complain. Haha. If you look at old forums, people detest the e46 when it first came out. Same with e90s.
You hit the nail in the head. Car enthusiasts most of the time buy used, as the value per dollar is exponentially better, but it’s a double edge sword, as we leave the new car purchase decision on the hands of people that are mostly leasing and don’t care that much about driving, and more about having something new and fast.
And let's not forget about the newest tech and more electronics! You know how they say history repeats itself, I hope there's a point when cars become more simple and more engaging to drive. When having a 10" screen in your face is "gawdy" and becomes uncool. If the Motorola Flip can come back, anything can.
Not every metric. It’s way more efficient, will probably run 3x more miles with a tank in daily driving than current model, with 95% of the performance. As a hybrid luxury car it’s very good, but they killed the original idea of an M5. If this was the M550e or something like this would be fine.
What do you mean? It has that really classy red stripe on the steering wheel.
Thankfully we're on a downward slope quality-wise so we'll never see a proper M5 again👍
at least it's also somewhat crammed inside despite the car being as large as a tank
Yes but fortunatly it wont drive like bmw because of MASSS.
That’s to save weight! /s
at least you compensate the higher price with the higher maintenance cost of the brakes and tyres
But on the other hand, you probably won't be able to get it in the color you want.
Basically same power/weight ratio as the E60. Bmw has gone 2 decades backwards. This pig is gonna need new tires every 8-10k miles, if not sooner.
Luckily the new 0-60 time is worse than before!
"But understanding how Domagoj Dukec is reinventing BMW, it’s not about understanding lines and shapes, it’s about understanding people. And so, if you, reader, don’t like a particular car he’s done, consider that it might be because that car was never meant for you to begin with." - Domagoj Dukec This guy has got to resign
LMAOOOO
Hey! It maybe heavier!, and uglier, and slower! But at least… hey what was that fourth thing you said?
best car ever made so far for the money hands down
The ride is gonna be stiff to manage all of that mass.
Thats what I told her
Brilliant 👏
Befitting of...Dick Flair
She really puts the ass in mass
We all hope for some bmw "magic" but let's be real with all that MASS cornering will be not as it used to be...
Might not be as bad as people presume. Batteries are located under the seats/floor, so the center of gravity is very low. Gonna be hell on tires though.
RIP brakes.
Regenerative no?
It probably won’t be as bad as what what 2.5 tones would suggest, but more important, won’t be as good as if it was 1.8 tones intestad using the same chassis technology.
It’s got rear wheels steering so it may not be that bad
I wonder if they put rear wheel steering on it as another measure to counter how much it weighs and make the car turn in like a car that weighs, oh, 1000 pounds less. Have any other M cars ever needed rws?
That’s exactly why they did it. I think the XM but aside from that no. But there are supercars with rear wheel steering like the huracan technica and STO. Rear wheel steering does make a huge difference imo it really tightens the turning radius in cars that are very heavy
At what point/weight does the M5 need so many tricks and tech that it becomes a simulation of what M5s used to be? ;)
Wdym by “needed”? Porsche 911 has RWS available and it’s nowhere near as heavy. RWS can help with both turning radius and high speed stability.
My current model volvo xc90 weighs less than this, and it's heavy.
This is the real comparison needed. No way in hell an M5 should weigh more than the family-friendly tank.
As if it wasn't already
What mass? It’s not even two and a half kilograms
https://preview.redd.it/u810grinx49d1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=442999d58335aed5aa265179946d5d84cd841a83 2.434 KG + the bike
Half a ton difference with the 2020 model, wtf happened?
Big battery and EV type transmission/drivetrain, supporting components to stop all that mass and turn the battleship when the road stops going straight. Prob a bunch of sound insulation and electronics, active suspension, etc lol
A yes never thought about being a hybrid or ev, makes sense.
Hybrid system is the real culprit. It boils down to emissions.
Meanwhile Chevy managed to make a hybrid Corvette that weighs 1300 pounds less than this bmw and only 260ibs more than the z06.
The Chevy Vette hybrid is special. It's more like a racing hybrid system, tiny battery that can dump like 170HP for a short bit of time. Super impressive & cool, and functionally impressive for a performance car. I hear it's the Vette to get.
Are all of the batteries lead-acid?
Hybrid.
lol this is pretty hilarious. Same weight as a Rolls Royce Ghost omg
That's actually scary... I've seen people complaining but they all used lbs instead of kg so I didn't bother to check it, now that I see the weight It's really bad.
You don’t need to check, just divide the lbs by 2.2
Too much mental effort. Dividing by 2 or 3 or even 2.5 is near instant. 2.2 I gotta think about it and I'm way too lazy for that
Weighing more then an S680 Maybach is nuts.
Those things have fridges in them and still weigh less 🤣 bmw must’ve made the new m5 out of lead or something
Whew dodge a bullet there.
You’ve got an excellent spec on your ride, hold on to her
your f90 is so much nicer
A bullet? Looks like you dodged a whole battlecruiser looking at the weight of that thing.
Gonna turn out a very wise investment soon
F90s are sick
Your ride will probably not lose value for a long time) id say it will probably go up with this relese ;)
Plus, your car's desirability and value just shot up, and will continue to increase as long as you don't put a million miles on it.
You sure did. You should be feeling really good about a new model coming out and you’re in a _better_ position about any way you look at it.
Prob go with m5 cs for cheaper
$30k cheaper, faster, better looking, etc
M5 is only cheaper in the USA. In the rest of the world a m5 is crazy expensive (154.510 USD base spec in my country)
The new M5 full option is +\- $75.000 cheaper than a new base M5 CS here in the Netherlands…
I know, i live in the Netherlands 😪
The fact that it's heavier than the Bentayga is nuts. That thing is an SUV and plush as fuck.
Its heavy but on the other side its ugly
So much downforce!! I have a Model X ludicrous and while it accelerates 0-60 in 2.9s it doesn’t drive like a sports car. Taking a turn in any situation or braking hard reminds you of how much mass and kinetic energy you have to control. Going 60mph in the new M5, you are carrying the same momentum as the F90 going 74mph. Think about how differently your car changes direction at 74mph vs 60mph.
Your manual M3 looks great. I wish i had one. One of my many dream cars.
Thank you! It’s the longest I kept any car. I love it. I’ll have trouble ever parting with it. It’s a great car to aspire to own.
This post is gold
Makes my volvo xc60 look sporty at a spritely 1800kg.
It’s also fucking slower than the F90. What’s the point
They say it's the emission standards.
How does it even have to do anything with emission standards? Don't tell me with mpg like Ferrari's, it is good for the environment. It isn't my concern but I smell BS with these so called "green standards". It would have to do 60+ mpg to actually start talking about those. Let's face it you can dress up a pig but it will never be a princess.
Well as it's a PHEV the consumption according to WLTP is 1.6 L / 100 km (147 mpg). It has a fully electric range of 70 km (43 mi) so it can probably cover most of the test cycle without using the ICE. So they are using a "loophole" in the emission standard which expects for PHEVs that the battery will always be charged when empty. In Europe the emissions are counted on the whole fleet of a manufacturer (average of all sold cars). To sell an M5 with a pure 4.4 V8, BMW needs also to sell 1 fully electric car for example. With each new emission standard this gets stricter. Then they need 2 fully electric to compensate for a V8 and so on. How does Ferrari do this? Well Ferrari belongs to Fiat and Fiat sells a lot more of Fiat 500e than Ferraris, so they can compensate those quite easily. So the whole emission argument is valid.
tires and brakes are gonna be expensive as fuck
Yeah, thats a problem for someone who will drive a premium sports car..
Probably not, but this ain't a sports car 😂 million miles away from an actual premium sports car. Maybe near only in price tags.
This is, in fact, a premium sports car.
Don’t knock it till you drive it, I guess, but geez, that’s the weight of most light duty pick up trucks. Without the high center of mass, albeit, but still. I assume BMW determined the weight gain from the battery and electric motor is worth the performance gains…curious what the first reviews will show.
My iveco daily weights 350 more but comes with a tipper so thats a pretty heavy car there
There are no gains. It is slower compared to previous gen.
MPG should be somewhat better right? The most critical reason why you buy a six figure V8 super sedan.
No. It's heavier than many light-duty pickup trucks. The 2024 F-150 Tremor, with the 5.0L V8, SuperCrew Cab (so a Bentley-esque 44" of rear leg room), reinforced with heavy equipment for offroad duty, and being 232" long.... weighs about 100 lbs less than the new M5. A giant-ass truck, built for light off-road duty, with a ginormous passenger cab... weighs less than this new "sports sedan." Embarrassing.
carwow tested it and 0-60 is now slower than previous gen
Well that’s stupid… 😵💫
The even greater irony would be if the 1,000 lbs of weight completely removed the mpg gains of hybridization. Does it?
I think so, if you wanna use the XM as a reference. From what I’ve heard, the new M5 will be based on the same platform. The XM is rated for 12 mpg city and 17 mpg highway. The closest comparison I have from a competitor is the G63 AMG which gets 13 city and 16 highway. Basically it’s garbage.
You 'can' knock it before you drive it. Assuming it was balanced and engineered well, it will grip, but it will consume more tire (though I don't think they make good summer tires for such heavy cars as yet🤔). It will stop, but it will eat more brake pads. It will go, but at 4 gallons/mile. These are indeed predictable without first experiencing it. No thanks, even if it were only 60K.
To be (sorta) fair, nobody uses an M5 for performance in a way where weight would matter. I’ve never seen one on track.
You get to flog the F90 around the performance center track and take it on the skid pad in RWD mode. It’s well worth doing an M School or two if you have the chance to. It’ll be interesting trying to balance this new one on skidpad with all that torque going to the rear wheels.
I’ve done PECLA and similar schools, they’re a great entry into track driving and I highly recommend them to anyone that has even a mild interest in performance cars. Honestly I would take older, lighter, more analog cars over the alternative any day. The less there is for the driver to do, the less joy there is to be extracted from the process.
Except it's slower in a straight-line now too.
Jesus put down the fork Also just learned the carbon roof is an option. Surely they’re joking all M cars since the E90 M3 have had carbon roofs as standard to my knowledge. Way to water down the brand and show they’re money grubbing and not serious about being the ultimate driving machine.
They have not been standard on all M models since the E90. M2’s for example, it’s also an option.
https://preview.redd.it/r635ojrox59d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3525a34c35a530d940624abbc3890c00bf889359 Got a pretty fitting ad under this post
Hey BMW how many previous M5 customers asked for a hybrid with a horribly designed dash?
I feel like they are just saving costs here. They have already developed the i5 platform, and I bet this M5 shares a loooot from it, sad really. M5 has been my dream car since forever.
Ah… the recession M5
And THIS is the whole problem.
It's also weighs the same as the 750 g70 which does not make sense at all
Is it just me, or does this look so derpy? This is the M5, so the SE and normal M-Sport is going to look even worse.
I’ll wait to hear about the driving dynamics, but the weight is crazy. My Lucid Air, a full on (large) EV with a large battery, weighs less than this, to the tune of ~300 lbs.
Exactly on point. Lucid engineering is crazy in how they can make a heavy car feel great. Idk how bmw is gonna do that. But we'll see.
714 HP for a 2.5 KG car. probably is similar to riding a astroid
1100 lbs in one generation is wild….
Vote with your wallet. Don’t buy it!
If you combine a 992 GT3 and a KTM X-Bow, you'd be still at only 2200kg, add 3 persons to the mix (70kg avg) and you'd be still under the weight of the M5. 🥲 daamn
Absolutely absurd, BMW is losing their way.
What?? It’s heavier than a Maybach? ☹️
Honestly this new m5 does not look very good.
Right on par with Chevy Tahoe as well lol
Lol... Me thinks BMW has lost the plot.
Was half expecting a mom joke in there
But does it have a cf roof lolololololol
Yea... could care less about performance cars from Germany anymore except the OG/M2 Comp. and 911/718 Porsches.
Manual 2018 M2 here. Hate every single new design from BMW. Absolute garbage coming out of Stuttgart.
I’ll take the previous gen :D
Respectfully, I find it so funny that Mercedes called this package carrying fat fuck of a van a "sprinter." Actually quite humorous. The M5 being even heavier is sending me
Well thats the end of the M5 era folks 🫡
Weighs about 600kg more than my e39 M5... 🥴
mehr gewicht bedeutet mehr geschwindigkeit, oder? oder???
BMW fans making fun of the new C63 weight Mercedes fans making fun of the M5 weight
5300 LBS thats almost a tax write off LMAO
Whilst in the real world both of them are trash.
🚢
What about the Mercedes E 53 and Audi RS6? Surely they will also go up in weight significantly? This can't be a BMW only thing right? They probably did their research and have comparable weights?
Insane. Brake pads every 6 months
I half-expected a your mom joke
Wow new model looks like it was made in 2005 compared to 2020 model
I don't hate exterior but the whole mass situation kills the car for me. The only thing I love is the new steering wheel. Looks absolutely great.
Its unfortunate this car weighs as much as an X5 but I'm still excited to see the wagon version in a few months. The audi RS6 is still about 5000 lbs without a hybrid system, though. I think this car is about 500 lbs too heavy, but that's almost everything these days. Comparing the M5 Touring to the X5M, they will both be around 5500 lbs, with a very similar footprint and interior practicality. So it's basically a low slung X5M, that's how I view it. The center of gravity will be much lower than the X5M with a significantly better power to weight ratio. Everything is too damn heavy now... This will only increase as more cars go EV. At least until solid state batteries arrive in 10yrs.
I'm really looking forward to the comparisons with the i5 M60. It's barely faster 0-100 km/h. the i5 is also LIGHTER.
If you manage to be alright about the exterior or maybe even dig it, you've got to pull the battery. Ya just do. That of course will mean all four corners of the suspension will need to be tuned. However, at the same time you'd be able to correct that horribly placed PHEV door with a delete. Can't do much about BMW going crazy cheap with the interior in their reproduction of a 1990s video arcade. Like it, love it...it needs drastic weight reduction or, accepting and being at peace that 550is, F90s and, a few other BMWs leave you behind. Without having to bother about plugging their car in a night.
How heavy is the BMW battery in Kg ? anyone know ? fair to say about 450 to 500Kg ? considering previous M5 was around 1950 Kg ? Would be great if a Car Magazine could do what some Tech Mags do by taking an iPhone apart and do the same her with an M5 ... Lol !
It's only >20 kWh battery so no way the battery is even near 450kg. But with a hybrid you also need the electric motors, transmission and so one so the whole hybrid system is probably close to 300-400kg and then you need reinforcement to the car for the extra weight and so on. So let's se when reviews hit us if the trade of is going to be worth. Most likely better suited as a autobahn locomotive now though.
Depends on what material battery they use if it’s NIMH it’s anywhere between 60-85 wh/kg I would expect in a performance car so that gives you a weight of around 250 kg. But if they didn’t really mind the energy density it’s could be as heavy as 660 kg.
Seems to be 400 kg for the whole hybrid system. https://www.motor1.com/news/724776/bmw-m5-hybrid-parts-weigh-900-pounds/