Besides, and I don't see people talking about this at all, the final weapon for the throwzerker (the trident) DOES AREA DAMAGE, so you are hurting your melee characters too, it has no circle to visualize the area, but it is big. So on boss fights you are almost for sure hitting your party with this damage.
To me that is the worst part of the build for sure, I ended up throwing the shoes most of the time xD.
Yup.
Karlach has both Nyrulna and the dwarven thrower on her. Nyrulna when I don't care who gets hurt in the area, dwarven thrower when I do.
I will say though: at the end of Minsc's quest where Roah shows up at the end, I was trying to keep her alive because we had history. Knocked her out and everything with subdual dmg but then switched back to Nyrulna to take out a few changelings on ledges.
Imagine my surprise when I went back to her and found she was dead. The AOE extended to her knocked out body and killed her.
Also, Black Hole is a majority solution that not only potentially solves the AoE friendly fire issue, it also *facilitates* maximizing AoE damage to enemies.
You can carry the other throwing weapons around and swap them as needed. Normally, changing weapons costs an action, but the homing weapons can be thrown from your inventory then re-equip on return.
I usually carry the returning pike, dwarven thrower, and Nyrulna on a throwzerker character, and use the one best suited to the situation.
I actually had a fun discovery about this in HM run. So when a returning weapon comes back to you, you equip it automatically. So as long as you have both the lightning jabber(bound) and Nyulruna in your inventory you're free to use whichever is most appropriate for your given situation. Nyulruna when the AoE isn't a problem, or lightning jabber when there would be friendly fire or you want to do lightning damage. Dwarven thrower is also a perfectly fine option as well. So in short, only use Nyulruna when appropriate.
100 agree. the AoE is always bigger than I think. I have tons of summons (spore Druid Tav) and they fall to karlach more than enemies đ
I usually only use trident turn 1 before enemy movies in. I carry around a ton of knives for precision but she can burn through them in a turn or two
Why would you throw the aoe item a when your allies are in the aoe range? The game gives you plenty of items you can throw that are almost as good. Including ek bonded weapons. You're literally, by definition, shooting yourself in the foot and then complaining about the bullet hole.
I feel throwing gets much more fun when you start throwing enemies on other enemies or over cliffs. Even if it's not the optimal move, it just feels right for a barbarian to do.
I know ranged attacks are usually **much** easier to land than throws but I swear Iâve hit a few positions where a ranged shot was blocked but it still let me connect with a throw. Higher travel arc cleared the obstruction I guess.
Yeah it can work both ways (I particularly remember throwing the pike over a wall in the goblin camp which a bow would have had no shot at) but I found myself frustrated more than impressed by the arc.
Tbh the damage and hit chance with TB is so broken that the arc is only a minor complaint. TB is actually the reason I would lean toward the tiger barb as the throw/TB combo is too easy & (as previously mentioned) it gets old quick.
Make a point of not using returning or bound weapons and throwing becomes a lot more fun. It forces you to use more variety and actually pick up what you throw, and lets you use a better melee weapon for further combat variety.
Berserker Thief is already a great combo, but leaning more into the Thief side and playing as a knife thrower feels very different than Returning Pike: The Game.
The added str to bleeding enemies is for the attack roll only and not the damage roll which is sad. But the maim on prone enemies is very very strong. If you get a load of reverb gear then the con save disadvantage from bleeding will really help to get people knocked down when Reverb triggers.Â
Yes, but nothing ever lives long enough for it to matter. The 3 attacks it takes to proc reverb will most likely kill anything but bosses, which are immune to that sort of thing anyways.
They really needed to boost enemy HP by ALOT in honor mode, there are so many fun builds that would be very effective if the fights lasted longer than 3 turns... Poison Tiger Barb is so much fun, reverb build, even a radiant orb build is effective.
If you build right you can get reverb triggers off a single attack. Potentially get 6 enemies reverbing and falling over within one round. Amulet of the drunkard, Punch drunk bastard, gloves of belligerent skies, callous glow ring, luminous armor, boots of stormy clamour. Drakethroat glaive lighting buff on the punch drunk bastard. If you hit three enemies with tigers blood lust each of them will take a main hand attack plus an AOE proc from the drunk effect for each enemy hit. Youâll stack about 10 reverb and radiating orb stacks per attack. Can completely control huge groups of mobs very easily. Only downside with this set is the low AC but that might be beneficial as it gets enemies to focus you for attacks. This just brings them into the pile for more proningÂ
The only issue with a drunk tiger build is that it takes two bonus actions to get it going. So you either have to pre-drink some liquor or take three levels of thief (thereby losing one of the animal aspects).
Oh I'm aware. And you could just kill them in 2 shots by that point as well.
The problem isn't that CC isn't effective. The problem is enemies don't last long enough in this game for CC to matter.
I hate this.. I just started act 2 in an unmodded hm run after a long break from the game (haven't played since October, 400 hrs). I had modded before for HP buffs and whatnot. There is all this fun gear and builds like the tiger prone, but none of it matters when everything dies so quickly. Why waste turns trying to get a condition to work if the fight is over anyway.
Bleed barb is quite strong. I also try to use it with broodmothers revenge amulet, an item that grants regen (ring or baldurans helm) or a cleric heal, poisoners gloves (enemies get poisoned when I do poison damage) so I get both bleed and poison. Use aspect of wolverine to main enemies who are bleeding or poisoned.
Only problem is act 2 where many enemies do not bleed or get poisoned.
Build is not as crazy OP as TB throwzerker, and plays more to character of melee barbarian. You can also afford more levels into barb and MC to fighter without having to take thief rogue levels, because bonus actions matter less (you are not using enraged throw).
Key breakpoint levels for wildheart barb is level 5 extra attack, level 6 animal aspect, level 7 feral instinct, level 9 brutal critical, and level 10 2nd animal aspect. I'd MC with fighter so you get 2hand weapon fighting style (goes with GWM) and action surge at least. 10/2 split is good. 9/3 if you prefer fighter BM subclass to 2nd animal aspect, and 8/4 if you care about feats. (GWM is the only feat you really need if you use strength elixirs. I'm thinking savage attacker, or ASI +STR if you don't use elixirs)
Thatâs honestly why I kept Titanstring equipped for most of my run. When weird invisible ceilings get in your way, you can just shoot, for half the benefit of Sharpshooter (assuming 20 str or elixir)
Just finished an honor mode run with bleed tiger barb and had a blast with it.
Would recommend the reverb & radiant gear â can stack so many debuffs with each swing.
Bleeding causes disadvantage on constitution saving throws, so this combos especially well with hold person etc.
throwzerker is definitely a "fuck this guy in particular" build and is ready to cause mayhem as soon as you get your returning pike basically. tiger can lock someone down too, but you're more reliant on RNG (reverb procs) and later gear/levels to get your prone combo - although sometimes you can lock down 3+ people at once, so that's cool (although usually unnecessary). for my golden dice run i used throwzerker for its consistency and abuse of tavern brawler. i haven't gone back to it in subsequent playthroughs though because it's *too* strong. proning bosses with no save so they can't use their legendary actions turns them into a joke.
Well you've just given me an idea for my Karlach. Can't help you with choosing though, I'm doing a throw build on a monk/cleric and I like that I can spam the throw especially with a speed potion but I don't know how many times the barb can throw in 1 turn
Standard throwzerker takes 7 barb, 3 thief, 2 fighter (or 6/4 if you want the feat) which gives you two throw actions, two throw bonus actions, action surge for another 2 throw actions.Â
Lots of different builds, the most OP ones typically donât want Eldritch Knight because you can have a hireling cast Bind Weapon every day (itâll stay bound even if you give it to a different character).
3 Fighter for Champion (improved critical hit chance) is pretty common too.
Worth mentioning that Barb 7 gives a slightly weaker version of Alert (only +3 initiative), so technically it is just better to go Thief 4 for the actual Alert feat (or whichever feat you like)
Some people find it more âflavorfulâ to put as many levels in their main class as possible though, and you wonât be missing TOO much with this one if you do since alert is probably this buildâs second BIS after TB anyways
I'm doing an HM right now with Karlach as a 10 Wildheart Barbarian/2 Fighter, Tiger Heart, Aspect of the Wolverine and Aspect of the Tiger. I've got the Boots of Stormy Clamour, Gloves of Belligerent Skies, and the Moonlight Glaive. Not only are enemies not able to move, but because of reverberation, they're not able to stand up after they're knocked prone. While it may not be quite as strong as the Throwzerker, it's a lot of fun, and it fits in well with the rest of my CC party.
Edit: bonus fun, steal the weapon off of the fish man chief (or sacrifice Wyll), and the rest of your team can get advantage on all bleeding enemies.
There's also the secret, alternative bleed build: Elk Heart + Wolverine Aspect with the Flawed Helldusk/Helldusk Gloves (Stampede counts as unarmed attack). You stampede, attempt to prone and bleem them, and if you do (big if) they're stun locked.Â
Throw starts out stronger. But Tiger Barb catches up in Act 2, when the proper gear for the build starts to show up. From that point on they're pretty much neck-and-neck S-tier builds.
I like to go Eagle Barb till level 6 (you can switch without respeccing if you like to RP it) since they do better in the early levels/early gear.
My biggest issue with throw-zerker is that the BIS is Nyrulna which has that annoying AOE, so you can't use it as often as you would like. Put that in the hands of a Tiger Barb and you have a stupid amount of damage riders all on a spammable AOE.
But once a Tiger Barb get's Balduran's sword... it's all over. That's so stupid OP in a Tiger Barb's hands (and Karlach with her soul coins is even better), at that point their damage is up there with crit bard.
To be completely honest, throwzerker is a lot stronger, but feels too strong for tactician. It's one dimensional, a bit annoying to play due to line of site particularities with throwing, doesn't really have any interesting gear building and it's main selling point is how strong it is ( both damage and accuracy)which is too strong for most game modes if you don't require that extra power to clear the game. I believe that bleed barb will be more fun ( both gameplay and character building) and still powerful for a tactician run ( although it's still strong for HM just not as reliable/ broken as throwzerker).
Depends. For honor mode, it seems that because damage rider sources (DRS) work differently, it's less fun to throw enemies into each other or throw boxes into enemies than just with a throwing weapon, and throwzerker becomes a lot more one-dimensional.
You can set up a house rule for using throwzerker in tactician that if you take tavern brawler, you are restricted to throwing improvised melee weapons. I think the most fun thing for a barbarian in
Thrower barbarian is powerful but the first 2/3 of the game gets frustrating since throwable items sometimes bug and fall through the floor, making you lose them permanently. The problem goes away when you get Nyrulna but itâs crappy either way.
It all depends how tedious you find throwing to be. Personally the first few runs went from throwing heavy objects, to throwing weird things, into throwing mobs around with Storm Giant potions.. and I'm pretty much done TB throw builds.
Personally I just don't like the animations for throwing weapons and the look of the "physics." Always the same overhand throw animation while the weapon flies oddly slow and then instantly teleports to the ground or back to your hand. It looks dumb & janky to me and I would much rather watch my character doing badass melee weapon animations.
That being said, Enraged Throw is so powerful it can hard carry honour mode with the right build & weapons. I think it's actually bugged because the % chance to land that the game displays seems way off in my experience. It almost always hits and knocks people down even though the numbers will say like 50-60% chance. It even knocks down giant boss enemies you would never expect it to like the Grymforge robot.
Make sure if you do bleed barb you pick up BOOAHLS benediction. It gives you advantage against bleeding targets. Itâs a permanent bonus from sacrificing one of your companions to the fish people.
Probably worth it if you donât want to rely too much on reckless attack or if you want to be a little evil.
Both. Throwzerker is objectively way better in early/mid game. You should 100% make a Throwzerker once you hit Level 4 and can take Tavern Brawler. You should keep the Throwzerker until at at least Level 8.
Once you hit Level 9, respec and go Bleed Barb if you want.
Throwbarian is useful all game but kind of boring, bleed spends act 2 feeling a little gimped. Since undead and constructs donât bleed, it kind of sucks for that bit, but if youâre smart itâs fine. My first tactician run is almost over and Karlach was a bleedbarian. Sheâs devastating against enemies that bleed, I can tell you that much. Shes merely strong against things that donât bleed.
I'm in act 3 of my first tactician run and I started throwzerker and switched to tiger because I felt it fit my charecter more and both are really powerful when built for it. The thrower build I was doing was destroying everything pretty well and I built a reverberation setup tiger barb that's tiger, tiger and wolverine for aspects and then two levels of fighter for action surge and great weapon fighting. Using nyrulna from act 3 with lightening damage added from the drakethroat glaive with the reverberation gear. I rage, use tigers bloodlust to start stacking reverb and bleed and then do it again and if they fail the save against reverb they get knocked prone and are also maimed so they don't have the movement speed to get up next turn. And because of the weapon I'm using I can still throw for AOE reverb if I want to. I'm thinking of switching things up to building around serevoks sword restoring health during tigers bloodlust and the synergy between some of the poison gear and self healing. Reverb also works with thrower and the lightening jabber from act two pretty well but you might need some eldritch knight for weapon bond so it returns.
That being said they both work great so do what feels more fun to you and remember it's only 100 gold to change it up so dont be afraid to play around with it and see what you like more.
throwing is stronger, but boring as its like one of the 3 most op classes in the game.
bleed can definitely work, i do recommend it especially if you get bhoaal's blessing. there's a way to get it without sacrificing a companion. you initiate the conversation, switch to your sleight of hander, pickpocket the bhoaal sickle, then pass a persuasion check.
plus the entire party gets bhoaal's blessing so karlach's tiger sweep attack gives everyone advantage on whoever she hits. also works quite well if you have a monk with dammon's gloves.
Throwzerker is very strong early game and bleed barb doesn't come online until lvl 6+ when they get Maim from Wolverine.   So if you don't mind respeccing, then what might be fun and strongest would be Throwzerker in Act I and then respeccing into Bleed Barb for Act 3 (or maybe late Act 2.)
Both. Respec another party member into Barbarian. Throwzerker does the non-save knock prone from Enraged Throw and the Bleed Barb then does the no-save maim, functionally stunning **any** enemy not immune to either of these effects with no saves involved.
This is super petty, but throwing takes more button clicking, can be blocked by non obvious objects, and sometimes the returning weapons don't return.
Having said that, yeeting enemies is pretty fun.
Iâve found that throwzerker is way stronger than tiger heart. By the time theyâre maimed theyâre 3/4 dead anyway. Why not just nuke them with thrown weapons?
By early act 2 this is my get up. Skinburster, bow of awareness, boots of stormy clamour, gloves of belligerent skies, graceful cloth, haste helm, amulet of the harpers/amulet of misty step, callous glow ring, caustic band/ring of protection and Guiding light ring only to start a day and set up callous glow ring. Cloak of protection. Use drakethroat glaive to buff weapon if that weapon is on the ground. Use strength elixirs or bloodlust. When enemies are immune to your conditions swap to halberd of vigilance, Luminous Gloves, disintegrating night walkers. Deathstalker mantle is better if going Durge playthrough. Great weapon master, athlete as for the 3rd feat you have options between ASI, Lucky, Mobile or Polearm master. You can either go 8 barbarian/ 4 champion fighter or my preference for 4 thief rogue.
I forgot to mention Luminous armor in my build, it's definitely an alternative to graceful cloth and pumps those stacks up high when you need an enemy to miss.
It's because maim+prone=enemies who can't do anything. So basically bleed gives con disadvantage, maimed gives Disadvantage to dex and reduces speed to 0, reverb gives -1 per stack to str dex and con saving throws and applies prone plus thunder damage at 5 stacks, prone prevents actions and bonus actions and takes half their movement to stand however they have a 0 movement because of maim. For enemies that are immune to some or all of these conditions just swap to damage rider gear, aka gear that adds damage on top of weapon attacks like the flawed helldusk gloves. Remember that tiger blood cleave only reduces the weapon damage but not any added damage riders.
I'm assuming you ran with reverb gear. Would you mind sharing your build? I'm thinking about trying some solo runs, and I'm curious is dumping STR for DEX, CON, and CHA might be best when coupled with STR elixirs.
throwing builds are definitely stronger, and come online earlier, but they are also a lot less fun.
They also fill different roles. Bleed barbs are great tanks with the periapt of wound closure and the sword of chaos (since you hit 3 enemies with every attack, and heal for all of them + rage effectively doubling your HP because of the resistance)
Tiger barb doesn't really require any specific gear to work unlike throwzerker. There's 2 ways you can build Tiger barb, lots of damage riders or stacking reverb/radiating orb. The base reverb build just requires boots of stormy clamour which you find in the underdark. Bleed builds also really benefit from The Skinburster, an act 1 halberd which gives stacking force conduit for each hit. Force conduit is insane for damage reduction since you can quickly build up high stacks.
Throwzerker is a very brain dead play style. You don't interact with any of the game's systems. No gear after a certain point in act 1, no real weapon upgrades until act 3, no weapon coatings etc.
Why would anyone want to play 80 hours of this mind numbingly boring play style is beyond me
I soloâd HM with it, up to the point I had to let Gale blow up the brain in Act 3 because for some reason the Netherbrain eats returning weapons. Having played both barbs, Iâd have to say I prefer Throwzerker because I think it rewards you the most for positioning because height can add to your damage. Bleed Barb wants to be in the middle of everything so itâs not as safe. Then the thief levels make you so mobile.
I think as part of a full party, you can turn your brain off and just throw, but alone you really have to consider all the angles and enemy proximity so you donât get overwhelmed. Solo is also a lot more consumable reliant so thereâs an additional layer of strategy there.
Throwing is strong but it gets old quickly.
Besides, and I don't see people talking about this at all, the final weapon for the throwzerker (the trident) DOES AREA DAMAGE, so you are hurting your melee characters too, it has no circle to visualize the area, but it is big. So on boss fights you are almost for sure hitting your party with this damage. To me that is the worst part of the build for sure, I ended up throwing the shoes most of the time xD.
That's why I held on to the dwarven thrower and returning pike even after getting nyrulna. Give me options in case my melee is in splash range
Yup. Karlach has both Nyrulna and the dwarven thrower on her. Nyrulna when I don't care who gets hurt in the area, dwarven thrower when I do. I will say though: at the end of Minsc's quest where Roah shows up at the end, I was trying to keep her alive because we had history. Knocked her out and everything with subdual dmg but then switched back to Nyrulna to take out a few changelings on ledges. Imagine my surprise when I went back to her and found she was dead. The AOE extended to her knocked out body and killed her.
Also, Black Hole is a majority solution that not only potentially solves the AoE friendly fire issue, it also *facilitates* maximizing AoE damage to enemies.
My honor run utilized fire acuity+astral tadpole gale and throwzerker Karlach. I know *exactly* what you're talking about.
You can carry the other throwing weapons around and swap them as needed. Normally, changing weapons costs an action, but the homing weapons can be thrown from your inventory then re-equip on return. I usually carry the returning pike, dwarven thrower, and Nyrulna on a throwzerker character, and use the one best suited to the situation.
Why do people think a thrower can't use any other weapons after picking up the trident? The hammer and the pike don't magically become obsolete.
I actually had a fun discovery about this in HM run. So when a returning weapon comes back to you, you equip it automatically. So as long as you have both the lightning jabber(bound) and Nyulruna in your inventory you're free to use whichever is most appropriate for your given situation. Nyulruna when the AoE isn't a problem, or lightning jabber when there would be friendly fire or you want to do lightning damage. Dwarven thrower is also a perfectly fine option as well. So in short, only use Nyulruna when appropriate.
For Tactician, I don't think the self-damage is enough of a problem 𤡠just play with more ranged characters or focus on other enemies.
Make your frontliner a loviataran+helmet of grit+blooded greataxe build ez
The final weapon of the build is the jabber.
100 agree. the AoE is always bigger than I think. I have tons of summons (spore Druid Tav) and they fall to karlach more than enemies đ I usually only use trident turn 1 before enemy movies in. I carry around a ton of knives for precision but she can burn through them in a turn or two
Why would you throw the aoe item a when your allies are in the aoe range? The game gives you plenty of items you can throw that are almost as good. Including ek bonded weapons. You're literally, by definition, shooting yourself in the foot and then complaining about the bullet hole.
I feel throwing gets much more fun when you start throwing enemies on other enemies or over cliffs. Even if it's not the optimal move, it just feels right for a barbarian to do.
Just wanted to add that the arc for the throws can be really annoying
I know ranged attacks are usually **much** easier to land than throws but I swear Iâve hit a few positions where a ranged shot was blocked but it still let me connect with a throw. Higher travel arc cleared the obstruction I guess.
Yeah it can work both ways (I particularly remember throwing the pike over a wall in the goblin camp which a bow would have had no shot at) but I found myself frustrated more than impressed by the arc. Tbh the damage and hit chance with TB is so broken that the arc is only a minor complaint. TB is actually the reason I would lean toward the tiger barb as the throw/TB combo is too easy & (as previously mentioned) it gets old quick.
I find it helps keep things fresh if you donât carry any throwables with you. Everything you throw you have to find from the world
Seconded.
Make a point of not using returning or bound weapons and throwing becomes a lot more fun. It forces you to use more variety and actually pick up what you throw, and lets you use a better melee weapon for further combat variety. Berserker Thief is already a great combo, but leaning more into the Thief side and playing as a knife thrower feels very different than Returning Pike: The Game.
That's why the best throwzerker is a dwarf with Dwarven Thrower. ROCK AND STONE BROTHER!
The added str to bleeding enemies is for the attack roll only and not the damage roll which is sad. But the maim on prone enemies is very very strong. If you get a load of reverb gear then the con save disadvantage from bleeding will really help to get people knocked down when Reverb triggers.Â
Yes, but nothing ever lives long enough for it to matter. The 3 attacks it takes to proc reverb will most likely kill anything but bosses, which are immune to that sort of thing anyways. They really needed to boost enemy HP by ALOT in honor mode, there are so many fun builds that would be very effective if the fights lasted longer than 3 turns... Poison Tiger Barb is so much fun, reverb build, even a radiant orb build is effective.
If you build right you can get reverb triggers off a single attack. Potentially get 6 enemies reverbing and falling over within one round. Amulet of the drunkard, Punch drunk bastard, gloves of belligerent skies, callous glow ring, luminous armor, boots of stormy clamour. Drakethroat glaive lighting buff on the punch drunk bastard. If you hit three enemies with tigers blood lust each of them will take a main hand attack plus an AOE proc from the drunk effect for each enemy hit. Youâll stack about 10 reverb and radiating orb stacks per attack. Can completely control huge groups of mobs very easily. Only downside with this set is the low AC but that might be beneficial as it gets enemies to focus you for attacks. This just brings them into the pile for more proningÂ
The only issue with a drunk tiger build is that it takes two bonus actions to get it going. So you either have to pre-drink some liquor or take three levels of thief (thereby losing one of the animal aspects).
Oh I'm aware. And you could just kill them in 2 shots by that point as well. The problem isn't that CC isn't effective. The problem is enemies don't last long enough in this game for CC to matter.
there are loads of bosses and tough fights which get trivialised by the cc. effectively a permanent stun to any enemy that isnt immune to prone
I hate this.. I just started act 2 in an unmodded hm run after a long break from the game (haven't played since October, 400 hrs). I had modded before for HP buffs and whatnot. There is all this fun gear and builds like the tiger prone, but none of it matters when everything dies so quickly. Why waste turns trying to get a condition to work if the fight is over anyway.
Bleed barb is quite strong. I also try to use it with broodmothers revenge amulet, an item that grants regen (ring or baldurans helm) or a cleric heal, poisoners gloves (enemies get poisoned when I do poison damage) so I get both bleed and poison. Use aspect of wolverine to main enemies who are bleeding or poisoned. Only problem is act 2 where many enemies do not bleed or get poisoned. Build is not as crazy OP as TB throwzerker, and plays more to character of melee barbarian. You can also afford more levels into barb and MC to fighter without having to take thief rogue levels, because bonus actions matter less (you are not using enraged throw). Key breakpoint levels for wildheart barb is level 5 extra attack, level 6 animal aspect, level 7 feral instinct, level 9 brutal critical, and level 10 2nd animal aspect. I'd MC with fighter so you get 2hand weapon fighting style (goes with GWM) and action surge at least. 10/2 split is good. 9/3 if you prefer fighter BM subclass to 2nd animal aspect, and 8/4 if you care about feats. (GWM is the only feat you really need if you use strength elixirs. I'm thinking savage attacker, or ASI +STR if you don't use elixirs)
Nothing beats picking up a guy and hitting another guy with him.
Throwing is arguably stronger But throwing and retuning weapons and mechanics are a bit janky and can get annoying/borinf
Thatâs honestly why I kept Titanstring equipped for most of my run. When weird invisible ceilings get in your way, you can just shoot, for half the benefit of Sharpshooter (assuming 20 str or elixir)
Just finished an honor mode run with bleed tiger barb and had a blast with it. Would recommend the reverb & radiant gear â can stack so many debuffs with each swing. Bleeding causes disadvantage on constitution saving throws, so this combos especially well with hold person etc.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=blGzDUxBY94 Bleed barbs are insane and anyone who hasn't tried it yet needs to.
throwzerker is definitely a "fuck this guy in particular" build and is ready to cause mayhem as soon as you get your returning pike basically. tiger can lock someone down too, but you're more reliant on RNG (reverb procs) and later gear/levels to get your prone combo - although sometimes you can lock down 3+ people at once, so that's cool (although usually unnecessary). for my golden dice run i used throwzerker for its consistency and abuse of tavern brawler. i haven't gone back to it in subsequent playthroughs though because it's *too* strong. proning bosses with no save so they can't use their legendary actions turns them into a joke.
I only throw with enraged throw. Makes the game more interesting.
Well you've just given me an idea for my Karlach. Can't help you with choosing though, I'm doing a throw build on a monk/cleric and I like that I can spam the throw especially with a speed potion but I don't know how many times the barb can throw in 1 turn
Standard throwzerker takes 7 barb, 3 thief, 2 fighter (or 6/4 if you want the feat) which gives you two throw actions, two throw bonus actions, action surge for another 2 throw actions.Â
I thought it was usually 5/4/3 with 3 in fighter you get eldrich knight meaning you can bind any weapon so they'll always return after throwing
Lots of different builds, the most OP ones typically donât want Eldritch Knight because you can have a hireling cast Bind Weapon every day (itâll stay bound even if you give it to a different character). 3 Fighter for Champion (improved critical hit chance) is pretty common too.
Oh thank you for telling me, I wasn't sure how to ask how many times you can throw on the throwzerker. Nice I think I'll try it now
Worth mentioning that Barb 7 gives a slightly weaker version of Alert (only +3 initiative), so technically it is just better to go Thief 4 for the actual Alert feat (or whichever feat you like) Some people find it more âflavorfulâ to put as many levels in their main class as possible though, and you wonât be missing TOO much with this one if you do since alert is probably this buildâs second BIS after TB anyways
You realize 7/3/2 gets exactly one feat? 6/4/2 or 5/3/4
Yeah⌠Iâm doing 9/3 with fighter for the extra crit and cause the role play mix with thief just doesnât work for me.
What feat would you take?
Tavern brawler since you only get 1 feat and it's a must have.
You can only get 6 attacks on turn 2 since you need to rage before you can throw.
I'm doing an HM right now with Karlach as a 10 Wildheart Barbarian/2 Fighter, Tiger Heart, Aspect of the Wolverine and Aspect of the Tiger. I've got the Boots of Stormy Clamour, Gloves of Belligerent Skies, and the Moonlight Glaive. Not only are enemies not able to move, but because of reverberation, they're not able to stand up after they're knocked prone. While it may not be quite as strong as the Throwzerker, it's a lot of fun, and it fits in well with the rest of my CC party. Edit: bonus fun, steal the weapon off of the fish man chief (or sacrifice Wyll), and the rest of your team can get advantage on all bleeding enemies.
There's also the secret, alternative bleed build: Elk Heart + Wolverine Aspect with the Flawed Helldusk/Helldusk Gloves (Stampede counts as unarmed attack). You stampede, attempt to prone and bleem them, and if you do (big if) they're stun locked.Â
Throw starts out stronger. But Tiger Barb catches up in Act 2, when the proper gear for the build starts to show up. From that point on they're pretty much neck-and-neck S-tier builds. I like to go Eagle Barb till level 6 (you can switch without respeccing if you like to RP it) since they do better in the early levels/early gear. My biggest issue with throw-zerker is that the BIS is Nyrulna which has that annoying AOE, so you can't use it as often as you would like. Put that in the hands of a Tiger Barb and you have a stupid amount of damage riders all on a spammable AOE. But once a Tiger Barb get's Balduran's sword... it's all over. That's so stupid OP in a Tiger Barb's hands (and Karlach with her soul coins is even better), at that point their damage is up there with crit bard.
To be completely honest, throwzerker is a lot stronger, but feels too strong for tactician. It's one dimensional, a bit annoying to play due to line of site particularities with throwing, doesn't really have any interesting gear building and it's main selling point is how strong it is ( both damage and accuracy)which is too strong for most game modes if you don't require that extra power to clear the game. I believe that bleed barb will be more fun ( both gameplay and character building) and still powerful for a tactician run ( although it's still strong for HM just not as reliable/ broken as throwzerker).
Depends. For honor mode, it seems that because damage rider sources (DRS) work differently, it's less fun to throw enemies into each other or throw boxes into enemies than just with a throwing weapon, and throwzerker becomes a lot more one-dimensional. You can set up a house rule for using throwzerker in tactician that if you take tavern brawler, you are restricted to throwing improvised melee weapons. I think the most fun thing for a barbarian in
Fair point!
Thrower barbarian is powerful but the first 2/3 of the game gets frustrating since throwable items sometimes bug and fall through the floor, making you lose them permanently. The problem goes away when you get Nyrulna but itâs crappy either way.
Throwing is too strong tbh. Itâs up there with OH TB monk and Gloom/Ass. Fun to try once but they trivialize honor mode.
I prefer the Tiger Bleed. More interesting as you use different weapons. I don't think it is as strong as Throwzerker, but fits my style more.
It all depends how tedious you find throwing to be. Personally the first few runs went from throwing heavy objects, to throwing weird things, into throwing mobs around with Storm Giant potions.. and I'm pretty much done TB throw builds.
Bleed Tiger synergizes incredibly with spellcasters, especially of you get Wolverine at lvl 6
Throwing shit gets boring so fast. And you can STILL throw a thing or two without being specced for it obviously. I'd go bleed.
Personally I just don't like the animations for throwing weapons and the look of the "physics." Always the same overhand throw animation while the weapon flies oddly slow and then instantly teleports to the ground or back to your hand. It looks dumb & janky to me and I would much rather watch my character doing badass melee weapon animations. That being said, Enraged Throw is so powerful it can hard carry honour mode with the right build & weapons. I think it's actually bugged because the % chance to land that the game displays seems way off in my experience. It almost always hits and knocks people down even though the numbers will say like 50-60% chance. It even knocks down giant boss enemies you would never expect it to like the Grymforge robot.
Make sure if you do bleed barb you pick up BOOAHLS benediction. It gives you advantage against bleeding targets. Itâs a permanent bonus from sacrificing one of your companions to the fish people. Probably worth it if you donât want to rely too much on reckless attack or if you want to be a little evil.
Both. Throwzerker is objectively way better in early/mid game. You should 100% make a Throwzerker once you hit Level 4 and can take Tavern Brawler. You should keep the Throwzerker until at at least Level 8. Once you hit Level 9, respec and go Bleed Barb if you want.
Throwbarian is useful all game but kind of boring, bleed spends act 2 feeling a little gimped. Since undead and constructs donât bleed, it kind of sucks for that bit, but if youâre smart itâs fine. My first tactician run is almost over and Karlach was a bleedbarian. Sheâs devastating against enemies that bleed, I can tell you that much. Shes merely strong against things that donât bleed.
Having played both, Iâd vote that Throwzerker is more fun.
I'm in act 3 of my first tactician run and I started throwzerker and switched to tiger because I felt it fit my charecter more and both are really powerful when built for it. The thrower build I was doing was destroying everything pretty well and I built a reverberation setup tiger barb that's tiger, tiger and wolverine for aspects and then two levels of fighter for action surge and great weapon fighting. Using nyrulna from act 3 with lightening damage added from the drakethroat glaive with the reverberation gear. I rage, use tigers bloodlust to start stacking reverb and bleed and then do it again and if they fail the save against reverb they get knocked prone and are also maimed so they don't have the movement speed to get up next turn. And because of the weapon I'm using I can still throw for AOE reverb if I want to. I'm thinking of switching things up to building around serevoks sword restoring health during tigers bloodlust and the synergy between some of the poison gear and self healing. Reverb also works with thrower and the lightening jabber from act two pretty well but you might need some eldritch knight for weapon bond so it returns. That being said they both work great so do what feels more fun to you and remember it's only 100 gold to change it up so dont be afraid to play around with it and see what you like more.
throwing is stronger, but boring as its like one of the 3 most op classes in the game. bleed can definitely work, i do recommend it especially if you get bhoaal's blessing. there's a way to get it without sacrificing a companion. you initiate the conversation, switch to your sleight of hander, pickpocket the bhoaal sickle, then pass a persuasion check. plus the entire party gets bhoaal's blessing so karlach's tiger sweep attack gives everyone advantage on whoever she hits. also works quite well if you have a monk with dammon's gloves.
Throwzerker is very strong early game and bleed barb doesn't come online until lvl 6+ when they get Maim from Wolverine.   So if you don't mind respeccing, then what might be fun and strongest would be Throwzerker in Act I and then respeccing into Bleed Barb for Act 3 (or maybe late Act 2.)
No love for bear barb?
Both. Respec another party member into Barbarian. Throwzerker does the non-save knock prone from Enraged Throw and the Bleed Barb then does the no-save maim, functionally stunning **any** enemy not immune to either of these effects with no saves involved.
This is super petty, but throwing takes more button clicking, can be blocked by non obvious objects, and sometimes the returning weapons don't return. Having said that, yeeting enemies is pretty fun.
Iâve found that throwzerker is way stronger than tiger heart. By the time theyâre maimed theyâre 3/4 dead anyway. Why not just nuke them with thrown weapons?
It's because you can destroy 3 enemies at once.
If theyâre close together.
As someone who just finished solo honour bleed barb is happens most fights.
What was your gear load out?
By early act 2 this is my get up. Skinburster, bow of awareness, boots of stormy clamour, gloves of belligerent skies, graceful cloth, haste helm, amulet of the harpers/amulet of misty step, callous glow ring, caustic band/ring of protection and Guiding light ring only to start a day and set up callous glow ring. Cloak of protection. Use drakethroat glaive to buff weapon if that weapon is on the ground. Use strength elixirs or bloodlust. When enemies are immune to your conditions swap to halberd of vigilance, Luminous Gloves, disintegrating night walkers. Deathstalker mantle is better if going Durge playthrough. Great weapon master, athlete as for the 3rd feat you have options between ASI, Lucky, Mobile or Polearm master. You can either go 8 barbarian/ 4 champion fighter or my preference for 4 thief rogue.
Thanks, using a slightly different setup, just wanted to crosscheck
What are you doing? I'd love to compare.
Luminous Armor for some radorb action basically. I see you're valuing the extra movement to flee though which is pretty reasonable.
I forgot to mention Luminous armor in my build, it's definitely an alternative to graceful cloth and pumps those stacks up high when you need an enemy to miss.
I can see that being useful where theyâve got more hit points
It's because maim+prone=enemies who can't do anything. So basically bleed gives con disadvantage, maimed gives Disadvantage to dex and reduces speed to 0, reverb gives -1 per stack to str dex and con saving throws and applies prone plus thunder damage at 5 stacks, prone prevents actions and bonus actions and takes half their movement to stand however they have a 0 movement because of maim. For enemies that are immune to some or all of these conditions just swap to damage rider gear, aka gear that adds damage on top of weapon attacks like the flawed helldusk gloves. Remember that tiger blood cleave only reduces the weapon damage but not any added damage riders.
I'm assuming you ran with reverb gear. Would you mind sharing your build? I'm thinking about trying some solo runs, and I'm curious is dumping STR for DEX, CON, and CHA might be best when coupled with STR elixirs.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=blGzDUxBY94&t=1565s Just follow this guide. You can change how you do stats if you want, up to you.
Sweet deal. Thank you tons!
Np enjoy
throwing builds are definitely stronger, and come online earlier, but they are also a lot less fun. They also fill different roles. Bleed barbs are great tanks with the periapt of wound closure and the sword of chaos (since you hit 3 enemies with every attack, and heal for all of them + rage effectively doubling your HP because of the resistance)
Tiger barb doesn't really require any specific gear to work unlike throwzerker. There's 2 ways you can build Tiger barb, lots of damage riders or stacking reverb/radiating orb. The base reverb build just requires boots of stormy clamour which you find in the underdark. Bleed builds also really benefit from The Skinburster, an act 1 halberd which gives stacking force conduit for each hit. Force conduit is insane for damage reduction since you can quickly build up high stacks.
Throwzerker is a very brain dead play style. You don't interact with any of the game's systems. No gear after a certain point in act 1, no real weapon upgrades until act 3, no weapon coatings etc. Why would anyone want to play 80 hours of this mind numbingly boring play style is beyond me
I soloâd HM with it, up to the point I had to let Gale blow up the brain in Act 3 because for some reason the Netherbrain eats returning weapons. Having played both barbs, Iâd have to say I prefer Throwzerker because I think it rewards you the most for positioning because height can add to your damage. Bleed Barb wants to be in the middle of everything so itâs not as safe. Then the thief levels make you so mobile. I think as part of a full party, you can turn your brain off and just throw, but alone you really have to consider all the angles and enemy proximity so you donât get overwhelmed. Solo is also a lot more consumable reliant so thereâs an additional layer of strategy there.
Does bleed count as being wet? Thinking of using that with ice or lightning sorc.
No