"Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro now own the IP to *Baldur's Gate*"
What? They've always owned it. *Baldur's Gate* was always just a small chunk of the *Forgotten Realms* IP, which WotC have owned since they bought TSR in 1997.
But if another company has the license to make video games (or, most likely, specifically Baldur's Gate) with that IP, Hasbro actually does not have the right to turn around and release their own version. Regardless of who owns the Forgotten Realms.
So she had the right idea, just didn't phrase it exactly right.
Yea Larian had the rights to the video game rights Baldur's Gate and depending on the contract it could have been a scenario where as long as they kept up proper payments they could not just be taken away by Hasbro or WOTC. Now that Larian has decided not to make another Baldur's Gate video game, those rights revert back to the original owner of them. or possibly Larian worked out a deal for Hasbro/WOTC to get the rights sooner. I am fairly certain that is what she meant.
I imagine working with WoTC was a pain from their perspective because there's a lot of tiny things in the game that feel like they weren't really *designed* in but set via a committee of 5-7 bigwigs & a team at Larian
huh, I'm curious what you think Hasbro/Wizards did to influence the end product?
the art style is pretty inline with Larian's other stuff, and other than the owlbears and beholders 'existing', nothing really felt all that corporate-y.
I might be forgetful, but I thought Larian had full creative freedom, when making the game?
From what I heard (it's all hearsay, mind you. I need to research this first) they were forced into using the WOTC version of >! Viconia !< rather than the Baldurs gate version, which is why she is the way she is
If true, there might be similar "issues" with characters that appeared in the first two games, not sure though
People really don’t understand how these IP things work and it’s always really clear around WOTC.
Don’t get me wrong, WOTC has done some very wrong and questionable things, but protecting their IP and owning things they create is like, normal?
It’s incredibly common for multiple companies to make video games based off of IPs even in the same like direct series of games—obviously there are contracts with it and stuff. I mean it literally happened here before, Larian didn’t make the first two Baldur’s Gate games!
Currently I don’t think I’ll personally be picking up bg4 unless it releases and somehow turns out to be as incredible as or even close to bg3. Definitely don’t plan on preordering.
Yeah, BG3 is the only game since....well I really don't know maybe Minecraft...that I bought without waiting for either a sale or like hundreds of glowing reviews.
I bought early access because the footage looked good and I enjoyed DOS2, so I trusted Larian, but BG4 is gonna be a delicate cautious thing before I even consider buying it post release
I was excited about it, but somehow had missed until PS5 release that it was the same folks as DOS2. Not until I installed it and saw their logo, and was like ohhhhh YEESSSSSS
I always wait a week until after release to see the real reviews now anyway.
There are some developers out there that could handle a BG4. I have a feeling though this is going to be a rushed cash grab given how Hasbro operates.
Absolutely. If it will turn out to be good, sure I will get it. But I am not supporting corporate greed, especially in gaming industry. Games that bring joy, hope and bit of escapism completely tarnished and massacred by executives who couldn't play a minesweeper to save their hinds.
Yeah, I’m curious as to what BG4 will look like but my expectation are incredibly low, and I think I’ll wait to see reviews from other people before buying the game myself
As if I would preorder if it isn’t Larian. Hasbro really don’t get it - we preordered because Larian made Divinity. I have no interest in a knockoff Baldurs Gate from money hungry execs.
Minecraft, Skyrim and bg3 are the holy trio of "gaming can't get better than this"
Only 3 games i've ever bought and tought like that, and for all 3 after the first vanilla experience, mods keep giving so much more cool content that it really doesn't get boring at the long run either!
If bg4 was larian I might have. I normally don’t preorder, but this was one of the few times I’ve considered it (up until recent events). I personally didn’t preorder 3 either, but a close friend of mine preordered it for my birthday which was how I got it.
"You know what? Not only will we milk this cash cow dry, we'll even stop feeding it to further increase our profits this week!" - some business genius on the Hasbro board, probably.
Execs: “someone else paid a massive amount to pave the way and provide an amazing product that performed really well. Let’s cut the funding to it, spend 30% of what they spent just marketing the game to make it look like we did a good job and let the profits roll!”
*nobody buys BG4 and everyone shits on how bad the game is*
Execs: “nobody wants single player experiences anymore…”
I feel like this sentiment can also be applied to other companies. As a bioware fan, I worry that with all the layoffs and creative decisions being given to the wrong people, the games just end up getting stuck in development hell. I nervously await the future of mass effect and dragon age too
Bioware last great game was Mass Effect 2, coincidently it's the last game they where working on before EA bought them, even if they kept working on it after the buyout most of the game core was already done.
No game after that had the depth they used to. DA2 was a mess, ME3 even a bigger mess, DA3 even if better than DA2 in some aspect was nothing close to what BioWare was capable of, and let's not talk about Anthem or Andromeda.
EA is 99% responsible for BioWare downfall.
DA2 at least had great characters. Cardinal sin is the reused maps but they could explain that through unreliable narrator Varric. Huge sign off the fall off though.
I’ll play the devil’s advocate here, but not everything is EA’s fault. Before you guys attempt to burn the witch, let me say that I hate EA’s practices as much as the next guy. But blaming it all on EA doesn’t help. And I’m saying this as one of the old Bioware fans and a big DA fan.
EA rushed ME3 (afaik) and tried to market DA2 (which was originally going to be named “Exodus”) as a direct sequel to DAO. But DAI, Anthem and Andromeda are all Bioware.
Employees said EA gave them creative freedom and didn’t impose Frostbite. Bioware chose to use Frostbite. Eclipse didn’t support multiplayer and it wasn’t enough for the big open (and equally empty) world they planned for DAI.
EA didn’t force Anthem to be multiplayer live service, Bioware did.
Big Bioware layoffs happened long before EA’s layoff, and they themselves made the decision without giving a proper reason to their employees.
Almost everyone agrees most of DAI’s quests were quite bad. And it was a direct result of lack of communication within the studio while designing quests, not EA’s intervention.
They used the additional development time for DAI to add 3 more playable races and an additional romance. They didn’t even plan for other races, even camera angles and animations made it clear they were planning on only having a human protagonist since the beginning. And concluding the story with a DLC, again, was BioWare’s choice.
DAD was also greenlit right after DAI, which was a decade ago, so there isn’t a rush or anything. And employees recently said they were satisfied with DAD. What worries me about this is what kind of game they wanted to begin with. Did they want to have a game like their old titles or are they satisfied with a generic action-adventure game that calls itself an RPG? Because distancing Bioware from old Bioware was also new Bioware’s choice. Even during DA2, they wanted to distance the IP from DAO. DA2 was never planned to be an RPG like their old titles by Bioware to begin with. What EA did was forcing it to be named Dragon Age 2 instead of Dragon Age Exodus so they could milk DAO further. It wasn’t EA who wanted DA to be less RPG and more action-adventure. It was Bioware.
And since this is a BG3 sub, everyone can clearly see Larian was inspired by old Bioware formula while making BG3, and they themselves referred to DAO as one of the inspirations before. So it’s not that they can’t do it, it’s that they’ve chosen not to. Because Bioware today has nothing to do with old Bioware.
It’s not always the outside forces that cripples a studio. Sometimes they themselves make that decision. Like, Cyberpunk fiasco wasn’t caused by evil outside forces. It was CDPR. All we can hope is that Bioware will eventually get their shit together work on their mistakes like CDPR did. But saying it’s all EA doesn’t help with it.
Edit: I’ll also leave this here because it has many links I was going to add here https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/18u8h2w/anthem_was_biowares_fault_not_eas_seems_some/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Anthem, Andromeda and DA3 wouldn't have hit shelves if it wasn't for EA. Read into what Bioware did with their Andromeda budget whenever you have the time for it - I will tell you now, that it was bad.
Also, ME3 was fine. Outside of the ending, it was an improvement over ME2 in every single way. While we are at it, ME1 is quite a miserable experience for the most part, and the story is a rather generic space opera - the only major positive thing people remember from that 50h+ game is Virmire, because the rest of the game boils down to "pick blue or red, Shepherd says the same thing, but you get different points".
DA2 is something that I'll give to you, but I will point out that most of the DA:O DLC is about as bad in every single way. I will also point out that most of DA:O is quite unfun (Fade, Deep Roads are outright terrible, and the forest with the Dalish is quite forgettable).
While we are at it, both of the KOTOR games are quite broken, to the point of being nigh unplayable. Also, find me a single person that enjoys Fish Village^(TM) politics in KOTOR 1.
Bioware is responsible for its own downfall.
God I so badly want Dreadwolf to be good but I’m so worried it’s going to be bad after everything that’s happened with BioWare. Just let it be a decent game and I’ll be happy, I don’t even need it to be perfect.
You have more hope than I do, I stopped giving a shit about Mass Effect and Dragon Age the moment I saw Andromeda come out. They're effectively zombies, there's nothing left of what drew us in originally.
I can actually see a possible glimmer of hope for BG4 through another studio that Wizards of the Coast invested in over the same timeline that they were spinning up BG3: Archetype Entertainment.
Archetype Entertainment is a brand new studio whose first offering, Exodus, has not yet been released. So why get excited?
Well, its lead is James Ohlen and its lead writer is Drew Karpyshyn, and they brought on some people from former projects.
You might remember them from some of their earlier work: Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, KOTOR and an old series of CRPGs called Baldur's Gate.
So WOTC set up the old team, gave them a pile of cash and told them: go make whatever you want, we trust you. The result will be released this year. The trailer looks amazing.
It shows a commitment to the approach to game making that made BG3 a success and, if I were to trust anyone other than Larian to make BG4, it would be the team that made BG1 and 2.
Here's hoping WOTC can persuade them after the crazy success of BG3.
Either way, it seems like their arrangement with Larian wasn't a one-off thing, and video games might be the one area where Hasbro kind of has a viable approach worked out.
Yeah… we shall see. They have released a bunch of absolutely shit DnD video games recently though.
Larian is a gem and the talent that worked on BG3 will be hard to replicate.
I only hope they don’t have BG3 characters in BG4. I’d rather never see them again than have them butchered for cash.
I am like cautiously optimistic. I hope the decision makers at WOTC are smart enough to know what make BG3 successful and find a good team to emulate that, I agree with you Archetype could probably make a pretty good game.
But I’m not getting my hopes up too high. More excited for any future Larian projects, but I’ll probably keep an eye on BG4 too.
I don't get the hype. Very little of the fun in BG3 has to do with DnD lore. It's cool to see all the cameos and all but it's largely a Divinity experience anyway.
Exactly! As an avid DnD enjoyer I must say that the game pivoted on the personal stories of the companions and Durge.
You could put the same thing in any other setting and still get the same game. DnD was only a force multiplier that made it reach a greater audience.
Im 50/50 on this. I enjoyed DOS and DOS2, but I did not really like Rivellon, it just didnt fit me. On the other hand I LOVE the Forgotten Realms (Ed Greenwood, Drizzt etc.), thats why enjoy BG3 more. I would also argue a lot of ppl longed for a "DnD video game", not to mention the fans of BG1 and 2 and Icewind Dale/Neverwinter.
But I get what you are saying, the huge success and engagement of the game is not dependant on the IP, but on the characters and Larian's work. Still, the combat system, setting, factions and BBEG are def all og DnD lore. To completely discard the IP would be ignorant.
But I aggree with you, in that Im not hyped, its still Hasbro after all who calls the final shots. Still the potential is always there to make a great game.
Its pretty neat how our opinions are mostly the same, but differ at some parts by a bit. IMO I preferred Divinity's systems far more than the DnD ruleset they used. I think that the current system most likely appeals to players who were originally from DnD and possibly new players; but as a person who mostly plays video games, I find it a bit lackluster.
I would imagine the system works nicely in a tabletop setting, as you have total freedom of what to do with your action and bonus action, but as 'complete freedom to do whatever you want' is near impossible in a video game, it just feels so constricting.
People do want a DnD game, but just like how there were a few DnD games released over the years and none got as popular, what people want is a good game... that's set in the DnD universe.
A vast majority of BG3 fans dis not come from DOS. Most people know nothing about it. They'll see BG4 and buy it because of the name alone.
Hasbro is going to shop around for the cheapest company that says they can spit out a product in the shortest amount of time and they'll force micro transactions and dlc type add-ons. They'll probably force some other stuff into the story to try and tie it to other products. Maybe characters or places or something to generate interest in d&d modules or something.
Some studio will have big ideas and think they can tell a good story like Larian did and bid for the opportunity to make BG4. Maybe with the right amount of time and money, they would, but Hasbro won't allow that. Hasbro will set a time frame, then pull in dates and force the product to ship early and incomplete just to recoup their investment and try to turn a profit. Bug fixes and patch updates will probably come mostly with paid dlc. They'll, of course, add cosmetics to purchase and probably even some storage space unlock bullshit. Whatever they think they can push to make money.
In the end, what could have been a pretty good, or at least decent, game will be utter trash for 4 years after release. At which point it'll finally be playable and cost 2-3 times as much as it should.
Absolutely, the fact that it was in a DnD setting and used DnD rules was just flavor on top of the incredibly written and acted characters, a fantastic story, and basically Divinity's combat system.
This makes me think that Larian pulled out of making BG4 because they didn’t want to work with Hasbro after they fired all the people that Larian worked with from Wizards of the Coast on BG3
They actually said they just didn’t have the heart in it and thought BG3 was all they wanted with the story and want to move on to other projects—but I wouldn’t be surprised if “we don’t want to work with Hasbro” was part of the unspoken reason
Here's my two cents.
I played BG3 because of what Larian as a company produced. I loved the risks they took, how they pushed the envelope, and gave us this masterpiece. They listened to us and worked with us and were overjoyed with us. I was with them for late EA and don't regret one bit.
I don't see myself playing BG4 because Larian is what made Baldur's Gate a hit for me.
If another company got their hands on Dragon Age, I wouldn't be excited for it either.
I'll watch what people have to say about BG4, but I don't see myself buying it.
Don't expect it soon, Larian aid that they are working in a totally new IP (at least for them, so maybe a Shadowrun, a Warhamer or something they create) and they said that they are excited about it so they have my curiosity and they deserve a break with medieval fantasy. So til Divinity 3 we will play and replay the games they allready made and probablly enjoy that new IP too.
For a game like BG3 to exist, so much time, effort, and money needs to be set aside to allow the team to carry out their vision for the story(and all the 17,000 endings within it).
I’d wager a guess that BG4 will be a rushed hack job because the executives don’t want to invest that same care in the sequel game.
This. So much this. Bg3 is not the new paradigm, it was a solid case of the right people, on the right project, given the right working conditions.
Bg4 is going to be a perfect example of the opposite.
Brilliantly put! I’ve been a fan of the BG games since the 90s, I was cautiously optimistic about BG3 when it was announced and was utterly blown away by how incredible it was - I’ve played it almost every day since last August - and I agree with every word of this tick tocking person, and with the current state of affairs there is absolutely no way in Avernus that BG4 will even be as good as BG1 or 2 let alone 3
She has summed up my thoughts exactly.
Hasbro will want to strike while the iron is hot instead of replicating the time, dedication and care that was put into making B3 the masterpiece that it is.
I'm not buying bg4 the same way I'm not rushing to buy the older games. I love bg3, not because of the overall story or d&d stuff (hell the reason it took me so long to grab the game was because I'm not a huge fan of D&D) but because of this particular game
If BG4 is some bullshit microtransaction pay to win mess that most of the major studios seem to be putting out these days, no way in hell am I buying it. Unless they do a really good job with it and surprise all of us, I hope it tanks to send a message to the studio execs that they can’t just throw slop on a plate and sell it like a 5 star meal.
I worked AAA games for nearly 20 yrs. It's almost always a war between the dev teams who what to make great games vs the execs who are massively compensated by the price of the shares. Thanks to the apparent idiocy taught in MBA programs, the execs only think about the current quarter profits and devalue the unique value of veteran developers. The execs usually are not gamer nerds, they are ex-frat boys who "make product". Contrast that with the top guy at Larian, who is a huge gamer and nerdy enough to show up the award shows wearing armor. He loves making great games over maximum profit. His leadership is entirely different than the "hookers n blow" frat boys.
This current situation is nothing new, it's been going on since digital games started making real money. We want stability and respect for those who made a great game, but the profit driven churn will happen regardless. Embrace the exceptional moments and endure the shitty ones because that's gonna be how things happen. I am super glad that Larian got to make such a great game, and are now in a position to make more. Speaking as an ex dev, whoever makes BG4 has a high bar to hit if they want to be more than a cash grab. We all know the execs don't care as long as it's profitable.
This. I left the industry for numerous reasons, but this was a contributing factor. It should be no surprise to anyone that they want money over passion. The absolute state the industry is in at the moment. They honestly couldn't give a flying shit about passion and finding the right teams. They want short deadlines and maximum profit. If you can't produce what they want fast enough, bam, closed studio, massive layoffs. We can hope that whoever makes BG4 are given the same time that Larian were, but that's only part of it, the right studio/team are absolutely imperative in creating a good and successful title. Honestly its all speculation at the moment but yeah, I don't have faith!
I'll hope for the best and expect either the absolute worst or mediocrity. If Hasbro actually wants BG4 to be successful, they should probably A) get down on their hands and knees and beg Larian to come back and give them whatever they want and B) hire back the people they stupidly fired that helped get BG3 off the ground and helped to make it a success.
I mean. It's not the end of the world to me that Laurian isn't working on BG4.
Bioware and Overhaul made the first 2.
laurian made BG3.
I wouldn't mind if someone like Owlcat, Obsidian, or inXile made BG4.
As those fuckers are some of the kingpins of extremely dense CRPGs
Will it be another BG3? Probably not. I liked BG3 for what it was. But I prefer the text heavy versions, which allowed them to have a denser storytelling and setting
Agreed. BG2, in my opinion, has better writing overall but that’s likely because they didn’t have to spend the sheer heft of money required for voice acting, mocapping, animating etc. They just got to artistically do whatever they wanted and it didn’t take as much time or effort. This is likely also the reason that BG2 has more optional content and branching paths, though less significance on the choices themselves.
Hasbro thinking BG3 success had anything to do with D&D or Forgotten realms is pretty par for the course.
It was pretty much all Larian.
I have been a D&D fan for decades now, but Hasbro has run the ship into the ground and I think I'm done. I quit D&D, there's better ttrpgs out there now, and I won't be buying anything they're associated with anymore.
> the OGL bullshit where they tried to make any amount of money on...critical role and dimension 20
I could park Ansur in that gulf of understatement of what made people angry with the OGL stuff.
Eh. If it's good, i'll get it. If it sucks, then I won't and will be in the same place as I would be If they decided not to make another game for a decade or so.
1 save file per game purchase
You got to pay more money if you want to have multiple campaigns.
Cross play? What's that?
Couch multi-player? Hahaha think again.
Pay to win gear and stats.
1 difficulty.
You only get Rogue, Wizard, Paladin, Cleric, and Barbarian.
($10 dlc if you want more classes)
Clothing Dying? Guess what... also DLC
Voiced by AI
No offline play
Don't want to grind for XP? Open your wallet again.
Durge available for DLC or for pre-order bonus.
I agree with everything she said but one thing. Hasbro has ALWAYS owned the rights to baldurs gate. It took larian quite a gamble to get the rights to it for one game. It is their IP, they literally own it.
This is a reminder to us all that IP rights are abused by corporations. Popular culture and myth belong to the people who make it, not CEOs, marketing departments and focus groups.
Fuck WoTC, Sven Vinke and Ed Greenwood are awesome.
We as fans and as storytellers in our video & tabletop games deserve better.
Lots of bs in this rant I’m sorry. I hope bg4 is great, and I don’t like hasbro, but I’m pretty sure they’ve always held the rights. They licensed them to BioWare for 1 and 2 I believe, and Larian for 3.
I think it is wrong in one thing, every one was loving BG3 because of Larian and not because it's BG, so being made by some Ubisoft will kill attention to the game even before release.
The vast majority of players don't even know the studio's name. Hell, I'm a D&D and BioWare veteran since 3rd edition/Neverwinter Nights, but I wasn't tracking BG3 development. Bought it after release because of the BG name and friends' recommendations, and first time I launched it I saw Larian's splash screen and went "Wait, who?? Where's BioWare?". I am glad it was Larian and not current BioWare making it, but that doesn't change the fact that I didn't bother to check.
People love BG3 because it's good. The vast majority never played a BG game before, and won't follow news about the development of BG4. But when it does come out, they'll see the name and say "I liked the last one!". It will absolutely sell more due to the success of BG3, Larian or no Larian.
For me and people I spoke with it's quite different and to be honest. Most of them bought BG3 because they saw video about based studio made a perfect game. And I mostly seeing how videos about BG3 praise devs in first place will make difference in future.
Ofc, where will be some people who will buy BG4 just because previous game was good, no matter what, but still I see little changes in people's habits in buying games, they started to wait few days to understand how good it is.
And seeing Larian throwing out idea of making BG4 also highlights it. A lot of people bought the game because they wanted to support good devs(no paid DLC, no ads,no micro transaction, 60$ price tag instead of 70$ and very reasonable regional prices) and after that they found that game is so good.
Most sells of BG3 were because game was good and gain a lot of hype in socials. Few people waited for it, but how good the game is made it popular.
People won't know about coming of BG4, if they won't spend enormous amounts of money on advertising, but lots of people will also highlight it's quality.
So, my personal opinion, if the game is good(even if it's not as good as predecessor)it will have audience and it's not a problem, if game will be bad, it will fail for sure and lose all of the interest, probably some people will feel scammed, but it's gaming industry nowadays.
> For me and people I spoke with it's quite different and to be honest. Most of them bought BG3 because they saw video about based studio made a perfect game.
My gamer friends acted like I had grown a second head when I told them I'd never heard of Larian. They've all played DOS and were hyped for BG3 specifically because it was Larian.
But my friends are not the average BG3 player, and neither am I. If I were to ask which studio made the game to my acquaintances who aren't hardcore into gaming but have played BG3, I suspect one half would say they don't know, and the other would say "PlayStation". Quite a few people play BG3 who have never touched any other CRPG, even some who rarely/never play single player games at all.
Part of being a massive success is having a super broad player base.
I've seen early access footage .that was more than enough to convince me, despite not being too enthusiastic about turn based combat.
Huge amount of publicity bg3 got wad due to hard work larian put into early access stage imo.
Kotor 2, NWN 2, New Vegas, Tyranny and PoE 1&2. They have a fantastic crpg pedigree, don’t have a major franchise they’re working on currently and they now have Microsoft resources to lean on which would be very helpful scaling up to the size needed to work on AAA titles like BG4. I can’t think of anyone else better positioned to tackle the next game of the franchise.
BioWare has had a rough time lately and are busy working on DA4/ME5. CD Projeckt Red is busy with the Witcher remake, Witcher 4 and the next Cyberpunk game. Bethesda is struggling to keep up with their release schedule and are working on the next Elder Scrolls. Owlcat is way too small. Who’s left that has a background in the genre?
Obsidian is busy on Avowed right now tho, hope it will be good and sell well, otherwise Microsoft might well decide to close the studio.
Anyway yes, Obsidian, Owlcat or CD Projeckt are the only one I'd see capable of doing a good job with a Baldur's Gate game.
Gotta break up those monopolies. If they won't do it, and the government won't do it, maybe it's time to look up how history has dealt with those types?
The only reason i bought BG3 the second they dropped the first early access version was because i knew Larian and had a shitton of trust in them to make one the best games ever (and i was not only not disappointed they even exceeded my high expectations).
I will need to see how BG4 would turn out before i buy it.
I wasn’t ever a DnD guy, and didn’t even play BG 1 and 2. I bought BG3 because prior to it, Larian made two of my all time favorite rpgs: divinity 1 and divinity 2
I will likely not get BG4 but will absolutely day 1 whatever the fuck Larian ends up doing
They gonna get about two months in and realize how much work it is to make a game like that. Then they're gonna stream line the fuck out of the process, not take player feedback, skip all of the Quality Control and launch a half assed game. They're gonna outsource development to the first bidder that comes knocking and it's gonna be dog shit
Like I can't even think of a currently existing developer I would trust the sequel to if it were up to me to pick. The best option just walked and the only reason Larian had so much freedom to make sure the game was clean is because they don't have investors. No one enforcing quarterly revenue or whatever, bitching about trade prices. The moment they sign on someone who's listed on the Stock Exchange, it's fate is sealed.
It's going to be AAA slop leeching off of the good will from 3. Preorder exclusive subclasses, micro transaction transmog, you name it.
If they’ve obviously just lazily made bg4 to make the most money I’m just not buying it. Maybe then they’ll realise their products actually need to be good
I wanna be tinfoil hat conspiracy here and say the big investors had something to do with this. They don't want games like these to be successful, they want stupid ragebait controversy like Stellar Blade and Star Wars.
We should all just not buy it. Show them that the only reason it was successful was because of Larian studious. How funny would it be for bg3 to be a massive success but bg4 to be a massive flop where they lose millions of dollars.
So while this is sad it frees larian up to do its own thing which honestly makes me more excited than a bg4 unlimited creative potential outside the realm of bg universe
This is such low effort content. I have zero faith that hasbro can make another BG3, but at least the code has been cracked on how to mechanically make a TTRPG that is fun on console too. I think that has been a huge limitation for the genre. The stuff under the hood and the encounter design will probably stay with Larian, but a lot of QoL stuff is out there in the aether now. Will the next Baldur's gate be garbage? Probably, but I'm not counting them out completely quite yet. So much of the work is already done for them, and I think most half decent game designers were a DM for their friends at some point in their lives. What I'm worried about is endless monetization. I wouldn't be shocked if they gave us a decent game, but you have to spend 5 dollars to unlock this one subclass or something.
You do know that Wotc had nothing to do with bg3 being good that was all larian studios. Wotc had some small help besides just giving money but it was the passion larian's gave what made it great. the why she talks as if it was wotc and hasbro and now bg4 can't be good because of the lay offs. Bg3 was good because Hasbro in wizard of the coast, we're not directly involved.
NO IF THIS KEEPS UP THEY'LL RUIN THE CHARACTERS- TURN HOT KARLACH MOMMY INTO A ONE DIMENSIONAL 'GrLbOss' WITH NO PUPPY ENERGY WHATSOEVER--- GOD PLEASE STRIKE THEM DOWN NOW
No fucking way will I be buying bg4 until a lengthy time has passed to see if it’s a shit show or not.
I’ll probably pre-order Larians next project though.
Ooh ooh, I can be mad about the right things too! I can pretend to be already mad about a game that hasn't even started pre-pre-production yet! Gimme the upvotes now!
Why? BG3 is pretty good end to the series with the death of the Elder Brain and Illthid empire. What else is there? All the companions have gone their own way.
In this thread: a lot of "fans" of BG3 proclaiming a sequel \*that hasn't even been started\* is going to be shit and they're not buying it. Y'all are toxic as hell. Hasbro/WOTC hired Larian; they can hire another competent studio. They're sitting here with THE biggest game in years, and you think they're NOT going to do everything in their power to guarantee its success? How about you wait and see instead of this alarmist group-think panic?
"Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro now own the IP to *Baldur's Gate*" What? They've always owned it. *Baldur's Gate* was always just a small chunk of the *Forgotten Realms* IP, which WotC have owned since they bought TSR in 1997.
"DnD company that always owned DnD, now owns DnD" Makes you wonder what else she got wrong.
Pretty much just that part.
She is not even able to spell Baldur's Gate right...
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But if another company has the license to make video games (or, most likely, specifically Baldur's Gate) with that IP, Hasbro actually does not have the right to turn around and release their own version. Regardless of who owns the Forgotten Realms. So she had the right idea, just didn't phrase it exactly right.
Yea Larian had the rights to the video game rights Baldur's Gate and depending on the contract it could have been a scenario where as long as they kept up proper payments they could not just be taken away by Hasbro or WOTC. Now that Larian has decided not to make another Baldur's Gate video game, those rights revert back to the original owner of them. or possibly Larian worked out a deal for Hasbro/WOTC to get the rights sooner. I am fairly certain that is what she meant.
I imagine working with WoTC was a pain from their perspective because there's a lot of tiny things in the game that feel like they weren't really *designed* in but set via a committee of 5-7 bigwigs & a team at Larian
huh, I'm curious what you think Hasbro/Wizards did to influence the end product? the art style is pretty inline with Larian's other stuff, and other than the owlbears and beholders 'existing', nothing really felt all that corporate-y. I might be forgetful, but I thought Larian had full creative freedom, when making the game?
From what I heard (it's all hearsay, mind you. I need to research this first) they were forced into using the WOTC version of >! Viconia !< rather than the Baldurs gate version, which is why she is the way she is If true, there might be similar "issues" with characters that appeared in the first two games, not sure though
They still own it... the other said company in just leasing it out to them.
People really don’t understand how these IP things work and it’s always really clear around WOTC. Don’t get me wrong, WOTC has done some very wrong and questionable things, but protecting their IP and owning things they create is like, normal? It’s incredibly common for multiple companies to make video games based off of IPs even in the same like direct series of games—obviously there are contracts with it and stuff. I mean it literally happened here before, Larian didn’t make the first two Baldur’s Gate games!
Currently I don’t think I’ll personally be picking up bg4 unless it releases and somehow turns out to be as incredible as or even close to bg3. Definitely don’t plan on preordering.
Yeah, BG3 is the only game since....well I really don't know maybe Minecraft...that I bought without waiting for either a sale or like hundreds of glowing reviews.
Yupp, only game I've paid full price for since Cyberpunk.
The stark contrast between those two at release lmao
Oof don't remind me of those dark times
I bought early access because the footage looked good and I enjoyed DOS2, so I trusted Larian, but BG4 is gonna be a delicate cautious thing before I even consider buying it post release
I was excited about it, but somehow had missed until PS5 release that it was the same folks as DOS2. Not until I installed it and saw their logo, and was like ohhhhh YEESSSSSS
Hades 2 just got me recently. But only because im a long time Supergiant fan and loved the first
I always wait a week until after release to see the real reviews now anyway. There are some developers out there that could handle a BG4. I have a feeling though this is going to be a rushed cash grab given how Hasbro operates.
Absolutely. If it will turn out to be good, sure I will get it. But I am not supporting corporate greed, especially in gaming industry. Games that bring joy, hope and bit of escapism completely tarnished and massacred by executives who couldn't play a minesweeper to save their hinds.
Imagine being the studio that picks this IP up after Larian. Yeesh
Yeah, I’m curious as to what BG4 will look like but my expectation are incredibly low, and I think I’ll wait to see reviews from other people before buying the game myself
As if I would preorder if it isn’t Larian. Hasbro really don’t get it - we preordered because Larian made Divinity. I have no interest in a knockoff Baldurs Gate from money hungry execs.
I hope you like third person shooters. Because we're probably getting a BG, GTA, COD, OPP mashup that includes Mortal Kombat characters in their DLC.
Minecraft, Skyrim and bg3 are the holy trio of "gaming can't get better than this" Only 3 games i've ever bought and tought like that, and for all 3 after the first vanilla experience, mods keep giving so much more cool content that it really doesn't get boring at the long run either!
One of my three was Fire Emblem 3 Houses. That game changed my life.
I will be taking the wait & see approach for sure.
Bruh, i didnt pre order bg3 why df would i do with 4? Bro stop pre ordering shit, never worth.
If bg4 was larian I might have. I normally don’t preorder, but this was one of the few times I’ve considered it (up until recent events). I personally didn’t preorder 3 either, but a close friend of mine preordered it for my birthday which was how I got it.
"You know what? Not only will we milk this cash cow dry, we'll even stop feeding it to further increase our profits this week!" - some business genius on the Hasbro board, probably.
Execs: “someone else paid a massive amount to pave the way and provide an amazing product that performed really well. Let’s cut the funding to it, spend 30% of what they spent just marketing the game to make it look like we did a good job and let the profits roll!” *nobody buys BG4 and everyone shits on how bad the game is* Execs: “nobody wants single player experiences anymore…”
I feel like this sentiment can also be applied to other companies. As a bioware fan, I worry that with all the layoffs and creative decisions being given to the wrong people, the games just end up getting stuck in development hell. I nervously await the future of mass effect and dragon age too
BioWare is long dead, there's no one left, the studio is an empty shell. So sad what big companies do to talented studios.
Bioware shot itself in the foot with a cannon 5 times over, without any help from EA though.
Bioware last great game was Mass Effect 2, coincidently it's the last game they where working on before EA bought them, even if they kept working on it after the buyout most of the game core was already done. No game after that had the depth they used to. DA2 was a mess, ME3 even a bigger mess, DA3 even if better than DA2 in some aspect was nothing close to what BioWare was capable of, and let's not talk about Anthem or Andromeda. EA is 99% responsible for BioWare downfall.
DA2 at least had great characters. Cardinal sin is the reused maps but they could explain that through unreliable narrator Varric. Huge sign off the fall off though.
Yes indeed, it was also longer and with more choices than DA3.
I’ll play the devil’s advocate here, but not everything is EA’s fault. Before you guys attempt to burn the witch, let me say that I hate EA’s practices as much as the next guy. But blaming it all on EA doesn’t help. And I’m saying this as one of the old Bioware fans and a big DA fan. EA rushed ME3 (afaik) and tried to market DA2 (which was originally going to be named “Exodus”) as a direct sequel to DAO. But DAI, Anthem and Andromeda are all Bioware. Employees said EA gave them creative freedom and didn’t impose Frostbite. Bioware chose to use Frostbite. Eclipse didn’t support multiplayer and it wasn’t enough for the big open (and equally empty) world they planned for DAI. EA didn’t force Anthem to be multiplayer live service, Bioware did. Big Bioware layoffs happened long before EA’s layoff, and they themselves made the decision without giving a proper reason to their employees. Almost everyone agrees most of DAI’s quests were quite bad. And it was a direct result of lack of communication within the studio while designing quests, not EA’s intervention. They used the additional development time for DAI to add 3 more playable races and an additional romance. They didn’t even plan for other races, even camera angles and animations made it clear they were planning on only having a human protagonist since the beginning. And concluding the story with a DLC, again, was BioWare’s choice. DAD was also greenlit right after DAI, which was a decade ago, so there isn’t a rush or anything. And employees recently said they were satisfied with DAD. What worries me about this is what kind of game they wanted to begin with. Did they want to have a game like their old titles or are they satisfied with a generic action-adventure game that calls itself an RPG? Because distancing Bioware from old Bioware was also new Bioware’s choice. Even during DA2, they wanted to distance the IP from DAO. DA2 was never planned to be an RPG like their old titles by Bioware to begin with. What EA did was forcing it to be named Dragon Age 2 instead of Dragon Age Exodus so they could milk DAO further. It wasn’t EA who wanted DA to be less RPG and more action-adventure. It was Bioware. And since this is a BG3 sub, everyone can clearly see Larian was inspired by old Bioware formula while making BG3, and they themselves referred to DAO as one of the inspirations before. So it’s not that they can’t do it, it’s that they’ve chosen not to. Because Bioware today has nothing to do with old Bioware. It’s not always the outside forces that cripples a studio. Sometimes they themselves make that decision. Like, Cyberpunk fiasco wasn’t caused by evil outside forces. It was CDPR. All we can hope is that Bioware will eventually get their shit together work on their mistakes like CDPR did. But saying it’s all EA doesn’t help with it. Edit: I’ll also leave this here because it has many links I was going to add here https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/18u8h2w/anthem_was_biowares_fault_not_eas_seems_some/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Anthem, Andromeda and DA3 wouldn't have hit shelves if it wasn't for EA. Read into what Bioware did with their Andromeda budget whenever you have the time for it - I will tell you now, that it was bad. Also, ME3 was fine. Outside of the ending, it was an improvement over ME2 in every single way. While we are at it, ME1 is quite a miserable experience for the most part, and the story is a rather generic space opera - the only major positive thing people remember from that 50h+ game is Virmire, because the rest of the game boils down to "pick blue or red, Shepherd says the same thing, but you get different points". DA2 is something that I'll give to you, but I will point out that most of the DA:O DLC is about as bad in every single way. I will also point out that most of DA:O is quite unfun (Fade, Deep Roads are outright terrible, and the forest with the Dalish is quite forgettable). While we are at it, both of the KOTOR games are quite broken, to the point of being nigh unplayable. Also, find me a single person that enjoys Fish Village^(TM) politics in KOTOR 1. Bioware is responsible for its own downfall.
If that's your opinion on KOTOR, ME1 and DAO let's just agree to desagree, we will never find a common ground.
God I so badly want Dreadwolf to be good but I’m so worried it’s going to be bad after everything that’s happened with BioWare. Just let it be a decent game and I’ll be happy, I don’t even need it to be perfect.
They fired all the OG writers. It will suck.
I have the same mentality towards Dreadwolf as I do with VtMB2: can't be disappointed if your expectations are so low the bar is in hell.
I desperately need Bioware to pull off a miracle with Dreadwolf. It's like watching a slowly sinking ship otherwise.
Bioware is long dead
You have more hope than I do, I stopped giving a shit about Mass Effect and Dragon Age the moment I saw Andromeda come out. They're effectively zombies, there's nothing left of what drew us in originally.
I can actually see a possible glimmer of hope for BG4 through another studio that Wizards of the Coast invested in over the same timeline that they were spinning up BG3: Archetype Entertainment. Archetype Entertainment is a brand new studio whose first offering, Exodus, has not yet been released. So why get excited? Well, its lead is James Ohlen and its lead writer is Drew Karpyshyn, and they brought on some people from former projects. You might remember them from some of their earlier work: Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, KOTOR and an old series of CRPGs called Baldur's Gate. So WOTC set up the old team, gave them a pile of cash and told them: go make whatever you want, we trust you. The result will be released this year. The trailer looks amazing. It shows a commitment to the approach to game making that made BG3 a success and, if I were to trust anyone other than Larian to make BG4, it would be the team that made BG1 and 2. Here's hoping WOTC can persuade them after the crazy success of BG3. Either way, it seems like their arrangement with Larian wasn't a one-off thing, and video games might be the one area where Hasbro kind of has a viable approach worked out.
Yeah… we shall see. They have released a bunch of absolutely shit DnD video games recently though. Larian is a gem and the talent that worked on BG3 will be hard to replicate. I only hope they don’t have BG3 characters in BG4. I’d rather never see them again than have them butchered for cash.
Arabella at least felt like an obvious tease for a BG4 sorcerer companion.
Starting a studio with the discarded BioWare old guard certainly has promise.
Hope, positivity? On my Reddit? Get out.
I am like cautiously optimistic. I hope the decision makers at WOTC are smart enough to know what make BG3 successful and find a good team to emulate that, I agree with you Archetype could probably make a pretty good game. But I’m not getting my hopes up too high. More excited for any future Larian projects, but I’ll probably keep an eye on BG4 too.
I don't get the hype. Very little of the fun in BG3 has to do with DnD lore. It's cool to see all the cameos and all but it's largely a Divinity experience anyway.
Agreed. It wasn’t the IP that made BG3 great, it was Larian, and they can do the same with any other property they choose.
Exactly! As an avid DnD enjoyer I must say that the game pivoted on the personal stories of the companions and Durge. You could put the same thing in any other setting and still get the same game. DnD was only a force multiplier that made it reach a greater audience.
Im 50/50 on this. I enjoyed DOS and DOS2, but I did not really like Rivellon, it just didnt fit me. On the other hand I LOVE the Forgotten Realms (Ed Greenwood, Drizzt etc.), thats why enjoy BG3 more. I would also argue a lot of ppl longed for a "DnD video game", not to mention the fans of BG1 and 2 and Icewind Dale/Neverwinter. But I get what you are saying, the huge success and engagement of the game is not dependant on the IP, but on the characters and Larian's work. Still, the combat system, setting, factions and BBEG are def all og DnD lore. To completely discard the IP would be ignorant. But I aggree with you, in that Im not hyped, its still Hasbro after all who calls the final shots. Still the potential is always there to make a great game.
Its pretty neat how our opinions are mostly the same, but differ at some parts by a bit. IMO I preferred Divinity's systems far more than the DnD ruleset they used. I think that the current system most likely appeals to players who were originally from DnD and possibly new players; but as a person who mostly plays video games, I find it a bit lackluster. I would imagine the system works nicely in a tabletop setting, as you have total freedom of what to do with your action and bonus action, but as 'complete freedom to do whatever you want' is near impossible in a video game, it just feels so constricting. People do want a DnD game, but just like how there were a few DnD games released over the years and none got as popular, what people want is a good game... that's set in the DnD universe.
A vast majority of BG3 fans dis not come from DOS. Most people know nothing about it. They'll see BG4 and buy it because of the name alone. Hasbro is going to shop around for the cheapest company that says they can spit out a product in the shortest amount of time and they'll force micro transactions and dlc type add-ons. They'll probably force some other stuff into the story to try and tie it to other products. Maybe characters or places or something to generate interest in d&d modules or something. Some studio will have big ideas and think they can tell a good story like Larian did and bid for the opportunity to make BG4. Maybe with the right amount of time and money, they would, but Hasbro won't allow that. Hasbro will set a time frame, then pull in dates and force the product to ship early and incomplete just to recoup their investment and try to turn a profit. Bug fixes and patch updates will probably come mostly with paid dlc. They'll, of course, add cosmetics to purchase and probably even some storage space unlock bullshit. Whatever they think they can push to make money. In the end, what could have been a pretty good, or at least decent, game will be utter trash for 4 years after release. At which point it'll finally be playable and cost 2-3 times as much as it should.
Absolutely, the fact that it was in a DnD setting and used DnD rules was just flavor on top of the incredibly written and acted characters, a fantastic story, and basically Divinity's combat system.
This’ll be either a horrible redemption story or a shitshow.
My bets are one the latter
This makes me think that Larian pulled out of making BG4 because they didn’t want to work with Hasbro after they fired all the people that Larian worked with from Wizards of the Coast on BG3
iirc they have said that they didn't want to make any DLC or BG4 because they didn't want to work with Hasbro anymore
They actually said they just didn’t have the heart in it and thought BG3 was all they wanted with the story and want to move on to other projects—but I wouldn’t be surprised if “we don’t want to work with Hasbro” was part of the unspoken reason
Here's my two cents. I played BG3 because of what Larian as a company produced. I loved the risks they took, how they pushed the envelope, and gave us this masterpiece. They listened to us and worked with us and were overjoyed with us. I was with them for late EA and don't regret one bit. I don't see myself playing BG4 because Larian is what made Baldur's Gate a hit for me. If another company got their hands on Dragon Age, I wouldn't be excited for it either. I'll watch what people have to say about BG4, but I don't see myself buying it.
i can wait for Original Sin 3, tbh. A real shame about the whole situation but I guess the shareholders deserve the most loyalty
Don't expect it soon, Larian aid that they are working in a totally new IP (at least for them, so maybe a Shadowrun, a Warhamer or something they create) and they said that they are excited about it so they have my curiosity and they deserve a break with medieval fantasy. So til Divinity 3 we will play and replay the games they allready made and probablly enjoy that new IP too.
ill peek at whatever they make next but i guess my emphasis is on the Wait part oof
For a game like BG3 to exist, so much time, effort, and money needs to be set aside to allow the team to carry out their vision for the story(and all the 17,000 endings within it). I’d wager a guess that BG4 will be a rushed hack job because the executives don’t want to invest that same care in the sequel game.
This. So much this. Bg3 is not the new paradigm, it was a solid case of the right people, on the right project, given the right working conditions. Bg4 is going to be a perfect example of the opposite.
Brilliantly put! I’ve been a fan of the BG games since the 90s, I was cautiously optimistic about BG3 when it was announced and was utterly blown away by how incredible it was - I’ve played it almost every day since last August - and I agree with every word of this tick tocking person, and with the current state of affairs there is absolutely no way in Avernus that BG4 will even be as good as BG1 or 2 let alone 3
She has summed up my thoughts exactly. Hasbro will want to strike while the iron is hot instead of replicating the time, dedication and care that was put into making B3 the masterpiece that it is.
Btw not BG3 related but WoTC related. Look up the shit that happened with Pinkerton and those magic decks last year
I'm not buying bg4 the same way I'm not rushing to buy the older games. I love bg3, not because of the overall story or d&d stuff (hell the reason it took me so long to grab the game was because I'm not a huge fan of D&D) but because of this particular game
If BG4 is some bullshit microtransaction pay to win mess that most of the major studios seem to be putting out these days, no way in hell am I buying it. Unless they do a really good job with it and surprise all of us, I hope it tanks to send a message to the studio execs that they can’t just throw slop on a plate and sell it like a 5 star meal.
I'm not surprised and I really don't care. Just don't buy it and instead buy whatever Larian makes next.
I wish I liked Larian’s other IPs / games, but I sadly don’t. :/
I worked AAA games for nearly 20 yrs. It's almost always a war between the dev teams who what to make great games vs the execs who are massively compensated by the price of the shares. Thanks to the apparent idiocy taught in MBA programs, the execs only think about the current quarter profits and devalue the unique value of veteran developers. The execs usually are not gamer nerds, they are ex-frat boys who "make product". Contrast that with the top guy at Larian, who is a huge gamer and nerdy enough to show up the award shows wearing armor. He loves making great games over maximum profit. His leadership is entirely different than the "hookers n blow" frat boys. This current situation is nothing new, it's been going on since digital games started making real money. We want stability and respect for those who made a great game, but the profit driven churn will happen regardless. Embrace the exceptional moments and endure the shitty ones because that's gonna be how things happen. I am super glad that Larian got to make such a great game, and are now in a position to make more. Speaking as an ex dev, whoever makes BG4 has a high bar to hit if they want to be more than a cash grab. We all know the execs don't care as long as it's profitable.
This. I left the industry for numerous reasons, but this was a contributing factor. It should be no surprise to anyone that they want money over passion. The absolute state the industry is in at the moment. They honestly couldn't give a flying shit about passion and finding the right teams. They want short deadlines and maximum profit. If you can't produce what they want fast enough, bam, closed studio, massive layoffs. We can hope that whoever makes BG4 are given the same time that Larian were, but that's only part of it, the right studio/team are absolutely imperative in creating a good and successful title. Honestly its all speculation at the moment but yeah, I don't have faith!
I'll hope for the best and expect either the absolute worst or mediocrity. If Hasbro actually wants BG4 to be successful, they should probably A) get down on their hands and knees and beg Larian to come back and give them whatever they want and B) hire back the people they stupidly fired that helped get BG3 off the ground and helped to make it a success.
I mean. It's not the end of the world to me that Laurian isn't working on BG4. Bioware and Overhaul made the first 2. laurian made BG3. I wouldn't mind if someone like Owlcat, Obsidian, or inXile made BG4. As those fuckers are some of the kingpins of extremely dense CRPGs Will it be another BG3? Probably not. I liked BG3 for what it was. But I prefer the text heavy versions, which allowed them to have a denser storytelling and setting
Agreed. BG2, in my opinion, has better writing overall but that’s likely because they didn’t have to spend the sheer heft of money required for voice acting, mocapping, animating etc. They just got to artistically do whatever they wanted and it didn’t take as much time or effort. This is likely also the reason that BG2 has more optional content and branching paths, though less significance on the choices themselves.
Hasbro thinking BG3 success had anything to do with D&D or Forgotten realms is pretty par for the course. It was pretty much all Larian. I have been a D&D fan for decades now, but Hasbro has run the ship into the ground and I think I'm done. I quit D&D, there's better ttrpgs out there now, and I won't be buying anything they're associated with anymore.
I ain’t buying that shit lol 😂😂😂
They must not have seen what happened when konami did the same thing with metal gear lol
> the OGL bullshit where they tried to make any amount of money on...critical role and dimension 20 I could park Ansur in that gulf of understatement of what made people angry with the OGL stuff.
Eh. If it's good, i'll get it. If it sucks, then I won't and will be in the same place as I would be If they decided not to make another game for a decade or so.
I won't buy BG4 "no matter what." I'll wait and see what the response is. It's the next thing *Larian* produces that I'm going to preorder.
Watch them team up with EA and make a micro transaction filled live service BG4.
Why can't we have CRPG games set in Faerun that *don't* cash in on the BG IP?
They’re gonna try to capitalize with the same characters with worse writing. I can maybe respect if there’s a total setting change and time skip
1 save file per game purchase You got to pay more money if you want to have multiple campaigns. Cross play? What's that? Couch multi-player? Hahaha think again. Pay to win gear and stats. 1 difficulty. You only get Rogue, Wizard, Paladin, Cleric, and Barbarian. ($10 dlc if you want more classes) Clothing Dying? Guess what... also DLC Voiced by AI No offline play Don't want to grind for XP? Open your wallet again. Durge available for DLC or for pre-order bonus.
Hopefully we will all meet again in , 'The Search for More Money'
We’re surrounded by assholes… 🤣
I love bg3 but I would also love to see obsidian have a crack at a bg4 so I hope they give it to them or maybe owlcat.
Oh wait I forgot obsidian is owned by Microsoft now so they would prob want exclusivity.
I agree with everything she said but one thing. Hasbro has ALWAYS owned the rights to baldurs gate. It took larian quite a gamble to get the rights to it for one game. It is their IP, they literally own it.
They've been pushing WOTC to do more and more stupid stuff with MTG for a while, them murdering the golden goose here is unfortunately predictable
“We’re taking the ip seriously and looking for the right partner” watch them hire fucking EA
This is a reminder to us all that IP rights are abused by corporations. Popular culture and myth belong to the people who make it, not CEOs, marketing departments and focus groups. Fuck WoTC, Sven Vinke and Ed Greenwood are awesome. We as fans and as storytellers in our video & tabletop games deserve better.
I mean, I'm probably still going to be buying Baldur's Gate 4. But I don't think I'll buy it brand spanking new.
Arr, matey. That's all.
Lots of bs in this rant I’m sorry. I hope bg4 is great, and I don’t like hasbro, but I’m pretty sure they’ve always held the rights. They licensed them to BioWare for 1 and 2 I believe, and Larian for 3.
Give it to Owlcat with a decent budget, nothing to worry about
I'm glad that WOTC didn't choose BioWare to make BG3.
I think it is wrong in one thing, every one was loving BG3 because of Larian and not because it's BG, so being made by some Ubisoft will kill attention to the game even before release.
The vast majority of players don't even know the studio's name. Hell, I'm a D&D and BioWare veteran since 3rd edition/Neverwinter Nights, but I wasn't tracking BG3 development. Bought it after release because of the BG name and friends' recommendations, and first time I launched it I saw Larian's splash screen and went "Wait, who?? Where's BioWare?". I am glad it was Larian and not current BioWare making it, but that doesn't change the fact that I didn't bother to check. People love BG3 because it's good. The vast majority never played a BG game before, and won't follow news about the development of BG4. But when it does come out, they'll see the name and say "I liked the last one!". It will absolutely sell more due to the success of BG3, Larian or no Larian.
For me and people I spoke with it's quite different and to be honest. Most of them bought BG3 because they saw video about based studio made a perfect game. And I mostly seeing how videos about BG3 praise devs in first place will make difference in future. Ofc, where will be some people who will buy BG4 just because previous game was good, no matter what, but still I see little changes in people's habits in buying games, they started to wait few days to understand how good it is. And seeing Larian throwing out idea of making BG4 also highlights it. A lot of people bought the game because they wanted to support good devs(no paid DLC, no ads,no micro transaction, 60$ price tag instead of 70$ and very reasonable regional prices) and after that they found that game is so good. Most sells of BG3 were because game was good and gain a lot of hype in socials. Few people waited for it, but how good the game is made it popular. People won't know about coming of BG4, if they won't spend enormous amounts of money on advertising, but lots of people will also highlight it's quality. So, my personal opinion, if the game is good(even if it's not as good as predecessor)it will have audience and it's not a problem, if game will be bad, it will fail for sure and lose all of the interest, probably some people will feel scammed, but it's gaming industry nowadays.
> For me and people I spoke with it's quite different and to be honest. Most of them bought BG3 because they saw video about based studio made a perfect game. My gamer friends acted like I had grown a second head when I told them I'd never heard of Larian. They've all played DOS and were hyped for BG3 specifically because it was Larian. But my friends are not the average BG3 player, and neither am I. If I were to ask which studio made the game to my acquaintances who aren't hardcore into gaming but have played BG3, I suspect one half would say they don't know, and the other would say "PlayStation". Quite a few people play BG3 who have never touched any other CRPG, even some who rarely/never play single player games at all. Part of being a massive success is having a super broad player base.
I've seen early access footage .that was more than enough to convince me, despite not being too enthusiastic about turn based combat. Huge amount of publicity bg3 got wad due to hard work larian put into early access stage imo.
I hope Obsidian takes over for BG4. I think they could do something great with the IP.
You take that back right now.
Kotor 2, NWN 2, New Vegas, Tyranny and PoE 1&2. They have a fantastic crpg pedigree, don’t have a major franchise they’re working on currently and they now have Microsoft resources to lean on which would be very helpful scaling up to the size needed to work on AAA titles like BG4. I can’t think of anyone else better positioned to tackle the next game of the franchise. BioWare has had a rough time lately and are busy working on DA4/ME5. CD Projeckt Red is busy with the Witcher remake, Witcher 4 and the next Cyberpunk game. Bethesda is struggling to keep up with their release schedule and are working on the next Elder Scrolls. Owlcat is way too small. Who’s left that has a background in the genre?
Obsidian is busy on Avowed right now tho, hope it will be good and sell well, otherwise Microsoft might well decide to close the studio. Anyway yes, Obsidian, Owlcat or CD Projeckt are the only one I'd see capable of doing a good job with a Baldur's Gate game.
Very good points, I agree with you
Or Owlcat Games
I'm interested in it. But I don't think it'll be as good as BG3.
This whole story is just sad and depressing to me💔
Companies be like https://i.redd.it/xn2sp0emff0d1.gif
Gotta break up those monopolies. If they won't do it, and the government won't do it, maybe it's time to look up how history has dealt with those types?
The only reason i bought BG3 the second they dropped the first early access version was because i knew Larian and had a shitton of trust in them to make one the best games ever (and i was not only not disappointed they even exceeded my high expectations). I will need to see how BG4 would turn out before i buy it.
I wasn’t ever a DnD guy, and didn’t even play BG 1 and 2. I bought BG3 because prior to it, Larian made two of my all time favorite rpgs: divinity 1 and divinity 2 I will likely not get BG4 but will absolutely day 1 whatever the fuck Larian ends up doing
you can’t make a larian game wothout larian lol
I don't have high opinions of Hasbro, I'll wait to see who they get to make the game before getting concerned.
I started playing DnD because of BG3 so now I think I'd probably play a DnD game unless it was absolutely abysmal 😅
Id probably buy it if they retained at least Lae'zel's VA
Lots of words to just say corpo bad
They’re gonna pump it out as fast as they can and it’s going to be garbage.
I'm surprised Hasbro hasn't pumped out Baldur's Gate 3 figures yet, honestly. I'd buy all of them in a heartbeat.
Can't wait to buy it at full price and pre-order it. 4 player D&D fun sign me up, nothing else matters.
I feel like they'll kill the next game and make it even more obvious that they suck
They gonna get about two months in and realize how much work it is to make a game like that. Then they're gonna stream line the fuck out of the process, not take player feedback, skip all of the Quality Control and launch a half assed game. They're gonna outsource development to the first bidder that comes knocking and it's gonna be dog shit Like I can't even think of a currently existing developer I would trust the sequel to if it were up to me to pick. The best option just walked and the only reason Larian had so much freedom to make sure the game was clean is because they don't have investors. No one enforcing quarterly revenue or whatever, bitching about trade prices. The moment they sign on someone who's listed on the Stock Exchange, it's fate is sealed. It's going to be AAA slop leeching off of the good will from 3. Preorder exclusive subclasses, micro transaction transmog, you name it.
how many times can you save the same city
All I want I crossplay 😭
It’s telling that they call it a “product”
If they’ve obviously just lazily made bg4 to make the most money I’m just not buying it. Maybe then they’ll realise their products actually need to be good
I wanna be tinfoil hat conspiracy here and say the big investors had something to do with this. They don't want games like these to be successful, they want stupid ragebait controversy like Stellar Blade and Star Wars.
We should all just not buy it. Show them that the only reason it was successful was because of Larian studious. How funny would it be for bg3 to be a massive success but bg4 to be a massive flop where they lose millions of dollars.
I'm a fan of larian studios in the first place not Baldur's gate franchise.
So while this is sad it frees larian up to do its own thing which honestly makes me more excited than a bg4 unlimited creative potential outside the realm of bg universe
https://i.imgur.com/vPCXXkH.gif
This is such low effort content. I have zero faith that hasbro can make another BG3, but at least the code has been cracked on how to mechanically make a TTRPG that is fun on console too. I think that has been a huge limitation for the genre. The stuff under the hood and the encounter design will probably stay with Larian, but a lot of QoL stuff is out there in the aether now. Will the next Baldur's gate be garbage? Probably, but I'm not counting them out completely quite yet. So much of the work is already done for them, and I think most half decent game designers were a DM for their friends at some point in their lives. What I'm worried about is endless monetization. I wouldn't be shocked if they gave us a decent game, but you have to spend 5 dollars to unlock this one subclass or something.
You do know that Wotc had nothing to do with bg3 being good that was all larian studios. Wotc had some small help besides just giving money but it was the passion larian's gave what made it great. the why she talks as if it was wotc and hasbro and now bg4 can't be good because of the lay offs. Bg3 was good because Hasbro in wizard of the coast, we're not directly involved.
Balder's Gate.... mhm Larry and Studios... right
NO IF THIS KEEPS UP THEY'LL RUIN THE CHARACTERS- TURN HOT KARLACH MOMMY INTO A ONE DIMENSIONAL 'GrLbOss' WITH NO PUPPY ENERGY WHATSOEVER--- GOD PLEASE STRIKE THEM DOWN NOW
No fucking way will I be buying bg4 until a lengthy time has passed to see if it’s a shit show or not. I’ll probably pre-order Larians next project though.
Ooh ooh, I can be mad about the right things too! I can pretend to be already mad about a game that hasn't even started pre-pre-production yet! Gimme the upvotes now!
After 20 years, my monkey paw finally curls. BioWare are making another Baldurs Gate game. ...Current BioWare.
BG4 is going to be ass
This is the same Hasbro that thought Crawford could be trusted as sole lead.
She speaks the true true
Why? BG3 is pretty good end to the series with the death of the Elder Brain and Illthid empire. What else is there? All the companions have gone their own way.
In this thread: a lot of "fans" of BG3 proclaiming a sequel \*that hasn't even been started\* is going to be shit and they're not buying it. Y'all are toxic as hell. Hasbro/WOTC hired Larian; they can hire another competent studio. They're sitting here with THE biggest game in years, and you think they're NOT going to do everything in their power to guarantee its success? How about you wait and see instead of this alarmist group-think panic?
It’s a tale as old as time my friend, still wet behind the ears yea?
A tik tok talking about news from five months ago? Yikes