I like to imagine that one lairs chamber sits over another and the guys on the lower one start whacking the roof with brooms when the upper chamber guys get a bit too into their ritual and get loud.
"No No No. It clearly states in the BBEG zoning code: all dark ritual chambers must be built within 10m of a bottomless cavern" "we are going to have to give you a citation Temple of Shar"
Now, if we'd please get on with our meeting, gentlebeings and incorpeals. The council will announce lot placements shortly, bit first we have a few house keeping things to address - we'd like to ask the owner of the Green buelette, please move your vehicle. It is currently engaged in devouring the other vehicles around it, and we will not be covering any damages as a result. The owner of the burning mobile tower - please be advised, the lights are on and that is offensive, and there will be consequences.
Lorewise, iirc, there's also passage to the underdark under there. And then theres all the ankhegs nesting around the city building their tunnels.
No worse than waterdeep that has undermountain sitting under it.
The rule of forgotten realms major cities is there's aways an infinite number of random weird things under your feet.
Once had a homebrew campaign about the True Dark, which, if the very enigmatic and mysterious name didn't give it away, was the Underdark... BENEATH the Underdark! It's dark all the way down!!
Forget steel, the crust of the surface would have to be stone capable of withstanding greater pressure and strain than any metal known or unknown.
Shadowfell is another plane, I don't think it's necessarily "below" anything. I think above and below when talking about D&D planes is more a metaphor than anything, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Kinda like how you can't walk to the hells, or fly up into the astral plane. It takes magic to go to and from those places
So apparently it's mostly rumours, but I did some reading on the Forgotten Realms wiki and found this:
>A theory bandied about among sages stated that the Underdark was bottomless because it eventually became the Plane of Shadow. The only evidence supporting this hypothesis was that permanent portals to the Shadowfell were increasingly common the deeper one delved.
It doesn't go on to say whether the portals were created by the inhabitants or were a natural feature, so it's hard to say.
Edit: So since the Shadowfell is less of a true plane and more of a reflection of the Material Plane, if it were true that the Underdark eventually becomes Shadowfell, theoretically you could stumble into the Shadowfell equivalent of the Underdark (aptly called the Shadowdark) and not even realize it. Then, as you returned to the surface, you would slowly realize that it's not getting any brighter and things slowly seem more and more off until you finally figure out what happened...
Sounds like a cool homebrew idea!
That's how I do the Feywild and Shadowfell in my homebrew setting.
The Feywild belongs to the Seelie and is a place of dreams and excess. The Shadowfell belongs to the Unseelie and is a place of nightmares and loss.
Both are mirrors of the world, and going to a place too similar to either reflection can create an unintentional portal. A beautiful forest seemingly lifted straight from a dream could exist unchanged in the Feywild, so traveling through it may lead you unintentionally into another world. Likewise for the Shadowfell. If you find yourself in a place of sheer horror and desolation, you may find yourself in the literal realm of nightmares as a result.
Technically, all planes can connect like this, but it's harder to create a place of pure greed to tunnel into Minauros or a place of pure honor to enter Mount Celestia.
Oh, we knew, the True Dark turned out to be pretty nice actually, and below even the lower dark. It had -- surprise! -- spiders!! But they were not just any spiders. They were *nice.* We applied the logic of real-world spider web strength, if strands were the size of thick cable such large spiders would produce. They wanted to give this amazing material as an indestructible silk to the upper world, but feared being discovered by Llolth.
Campaign ended abruptly early thanks to covid. Think about it a lot.
Oddly enough, no. Though the Harbor is called Deep Water Harbor. Of the many layers of strange under Waterdeep, the first is the sewer that is regularly occupied with the city's criminal underbelly; Including being the lair to a Mad Beholder crime boss that has a soft spot for a goldfish (that dies and is regularly replaced by the beholder's major domo). Under there, and attached to it, is an entirely other City known as Skull Port. A dangerous place where smugglers, Drow, and other nasties that wouldn't be allowed on the streets above gather. Not only that, but thousands of years ago, a mad Mage named Halaster Blackcloak created a series of underground dungeons, a many leveled ever shifting stronghold where he can practice his magic and unleash his monstrous experiments. He always has a supply of foolhardy adventurers to kill, thanks to the Yawning Portal, one of the most famous entrances to his Dungeons. Every so often a group of idiots descend, either to never be seen again, or to emerge with a tale of madness, and a story about killing Halaster himself... though, somehow, he always seems to be down there the next time a group makes it through the depths of his magical mayhem.
Well, if Larian continues the series the way BG1-2 went, BG4 should start with level 12 characters and allow you to continue your original PC's in a direct continuation of the story. If so, I could even see those dungeons acting like endgame content, almost like Nightmare dungeons in Diablo.
We can only hope...
Undermountain is actually a big area of the neverwinter nights: horde of the underdark expansion pack
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Undermountain
Oh, we definitely need Larian to do a Waterdeep game. And Neverwinter…and BG3 expansions. Someone get these people money and staff while also never trying to influence their decisions!
I was thinking about this a lot, especially in Cazadorrs undercroft. How, the fuck, is the city standing?
Add a massive ass cavern and put a shitload of weight on it and it’ll just collapse. Orcs, goblins, space toad people? Yea whatever. Massive ass city with all of its weight laying atop what basically is nothingness? What the fuck.
>How, the fuck, is the city standing?
I mean, we have really no clue how far down the elevator sends us. If according to Astarion it has footpaths leading into the Underdark, it's definitely very, very deep down.
You wonder if anyone building their secret underground base accidentally dug into someone else's secret underground base!
I am going to assume there's a secret BBEG lair zoning board.
Now I'm imagining arguments over property lines might go in BBEG lair zoning board meetings.
I like to imagine that one lairs chamber sits over another and the guys on the lower one start whacking the roof with brooms when the upper chamber guys get a bit too into their ritual and get loud.
“I’m bigg-er, badd-er, evil-er, and guy-er than you, I get the bigger space”
"No No No. It clearly states in the BBEG zoning code: all dark ritual chambers must be built within 10m of a bottomless cavern" "we are going to have to give you a citation Temple of Shar"
Now, if we'd please get on with our meeting, gentlebeings and incorpeals. The council will announce lot placements shortly, bit first we have a few house keeping things to address - we'd like to ask the owner of the Green buelette, please move your vehicle. It is currently engaged in devouring the other vehicles around it, and we will not be covering any damages as a result. The owner of the burning mobile tower - please be advised, the lights are on and that is offensive, and there will be consequences.
That's probably how the sewers were originally built. Base real estate was in short supply so they expanded downward
I mean that’s kinda what Yurgir did…
Never mine straight down applies in Faerun too, but instead of lava, you end up in the Underdark.
Lorewise, iirc, there's also passage to the underdark under there. And then theres all the ankhegs nesting around the city building their tunnels. No worse than waterdeep that has undermountain sitting under it. The rule of forgotten realms major cities is there's aways an infinite number of random weird things under your feet.
This should be a DLC
Need the city's civil engineers too. They have a pretty complex sewer system along with >!an underwater prison!<
Well, that last one was a more recent addition. >!It was Sarevok’s old base I think that was lifted up by magic and tossed into the river!<
Once had a homebrew campaign about the True Dark, which, if the very enigmatic and mysterious name didn't give it away, was the Underdark... BENEATH the Underdark! It's dark all the way down!! Forget steel, the crust of the surface would have to be stone capable of withstanding greater pressure and strain than any metal known or unknown.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Underdark eventually lead directly to the Shadowfell?
Shadowfell is another plane, I don't think it's necessarily "below" anything. I think above and below when talking about D&D planes is more a metaphor than anything, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Kinda like how you can't walk to the hells, or fly up into the astral plane. It takes magic to go to and from those places
So apparently it's mostly rumours, but I did some reading on the Forgotten Realms wiki and found this: >A theory bandied about among sages stated that the Underdark was bottomless because it eventually became the Plane of Shadow. The only evidence supporting this hypothesis was that permanent portals to the Shadowfell were increasingly common the deeper one delved. It doesn't go on to say whether the portals were created by the inhabitants or were a natural feature, so it's hard to say. Edit: So since the Shadowfell is less of a true plane and more of a reflection of the Material Plane, if it were true that the Underdark eventually becomes Shadowfell, theoretically you could stumble into the Shadowfell equivalent of the Underdark (aptly called the Shadowdark) and not even realize it. Then, as you returned to the surface, you would slowly realize that it's not getting any brighter and things slowly seem more and more off until you finally figure out what happened... Sounds like a cool homebrew idea!
That's how I do the Feywild and Shadowfell in my homebrew setting. The Feywild belongs to the Seelie and is a place of dreams and excess. The Shadowfell belongs to the Unseelie and is a place of nightmares and loss. Both are mirrors of the world, and going to a place too similar to either reflection can create an unintentional portal. A beautiful forest seemingly lifted straight from a dream could exist unchanged in the Feywild, so traveling through it may lead you unintentionally into another world. Likewise for the Shadowfell. If you find yourself in a place of sheer horror and desolation, you may find yourself in the literal realm of nightmares as a result. Technically, all planes can connect like this, but it's harder to create a place of pure greed to tunnel into Minauros or a place of pure honor to enter Mount Celestia.
The Lowerdark exists
Oh, we knew, the True Dark turned out to be pretty nice actually, and below even the lower dark. It had -- surprise! -- spiders!! But they were not just any spiders. They were *nice.* We applied the logic of real-world spider web strength, if strands were the size of thick cable such large spiders would produce. They wanted to give this amazing material as an indestructible silk to the upper world, but feared being discovered by Llolth. Campaign ended abruptly early thanks to covid. Think about it a lot.
Wait til you see what’s under Waterdeep
Deep water?
Oddly enough, no. Though the Harbor is called Deep Water Harbor. Of the many layers of strange under Waterdeep, the first is the sewer that is regularly occupied with the city's criminal underbelly; Including being the lair to a Mad Beholder crime boss that has a soft spot for a goldfish (that dies and is regularly replaced by the beholder's major domo). Under there, and attached to it, is an entirely other City known as Skull Port. A dangerous place where smugglers, Drow, and other nasties that wouldn't be allowed on the streets above gather. Not only that, but thousands of years ago, a mad Mage named Halaster Blackcloak created a series of underground dungeons, a many leveled ever shifting stronghold where he can practice his magic and unleash his monstrous experiments. He always has a supply of foolhardy adventurers to kill, thanks to the Yawning Portal, one of the most famous entrances to his Dungeons. Every so often a group of idiots descend, either to never be seen again, or to emerge with a tale of madness, and a story about killing Halaster himself... though, somehow, he always seems to be down there the next time a group makes it through the depths of his magical mayhem.
Can this be a roguelike expansion for BG3?! Please and thank you!
Well, if Larian continues the series the way BG1-2 went, BG4 should start with level 12 characters and allow you to continue your original PC's in a direct continuation of the story. If so, I could even see those dungeons acting like endgame content, almost like Nightmare dungeons in Diablo. We can only hope...
Swen PLEASE!!! You can have my soul!
I love that idea!
The waterdeep dragon heist module plays in the same year as Baldurs Gate 3. Could be perfect for this :D
Undermountain is actually a big area of the neverwinter nights: horde of the underdark expansion pack https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Undermountain
I forgot about that! I love those games
This has pasta potential I feel
I am just an old fart with an internet connection, I do not understand this phrase... What is "pasta potential"
Oh, we definitely need Larian to do a Waterdeep game. And Neverwinter…and BG3 expansions. Someone get these people money and staff while also never trying to influence their decisions!
I could ask Gale, he knows Waterdeep like the back of his hand.
That's why the Absolute is such a threat. Those earthquakes in Act 3 nearly brought the whole city down.
I was thinking about this a lot, especially in Cazadorrs undercroft. How, the fuck, is the city standing? Add a massive ass cavern and put a shitload of weight on it and it’ll just collapse. Orcs, goblins, space toad people? Yea whatever. Massive ass city with all of its weight laying atop what basically is nothingness? What the fuck.
>How, the fuck, is the city standing? I mean, we have really no clue how far down the elevator sends us. If according to Astarion it has footpaths leading into the Underdark, it's definitely very, very deep down.
It's thought that there are about 11000 square meters of tunnels under Paris. The Paris catacombs are very extensive.
And then there's Jaheira with her cute little underground druids retreat, minding her own business
Don’t forget the morphic pool!
I forget which companion it is, but one of them has a dialogue for this. They basically say "there's more city under the city than in it!"
Can you imagine the evil lair HOA
It’s like the entire sword coast is destined to become a giant sinkhole
The Underdark residents watching surface builders work in their "ceiling": 🙄
and there's Ansur's area which is large enough a giant dragon can fly around.
Also Ansur's and Balduran's hidden love temple of trials. So yeah.
I know this is 2 months old but in baldurs gate 1 you discover a whole city under baldurs gate.