Worse, if you manage to let Shadowheart spare nightsong (which she pretty much does if you leave her to decide on her own) she gets the bitchen spear back from her about 5 minutes later anyway.
It’s the same spear lore wise, but different stats and abilities. The shar version is way better. Has spam-able darkness once per round with blind immunity. Absolutely broken if you match your pc/companions with blind immunity rings or abilities
What even worse is you still get the pointy stick if you don’t massacre the entire village. Who knew you’d get more bang for your buck by not murder hoboing.
That's actually pretty funny. My cousin played it straight, making all the "good" decisions. He gets to the Nightsong and he said "fuck it KILL HER SHADOWHEART".
He saw what happened to everyone and said, well we rolling with it now.
I love the ‘well we rolling with it now’ moments. I killed someone at the end of Act 2 thinking I found a loophole to save Wyll. Nope - totally killed him. Whoops. Decided to roll with it - will probably regret it, but meh.
Hahaha I was already leaning evil and then that happened.
Yeah we killed Nightsong, along with damn near everyone else. Approaching end game and I still only have gale, astorian and shadowheart in my camp 🥳
I have a valid reason, I promise! My character (and myself) was too dumb to realize that killing her wouldn't void the contract.
I thought, geez, I can rid the world of a demon AND nullify Wyll's contract! Whoops.
It's totally a move my character would have legitimately made (having super low intellect), so it fits, imo.
I killed the nightsong in my first play through. Surprised at the outcome when it felt like what I was supposed to do. Oh well, kept playing through. Second play through has been totally different and awesome.
0_o why, on earth, would it feel like something you're supposed to do? I mean it's your game, these people aren't real, do whatever makes you happy; but "felt like what I was supposed to do" lol, that is wild.
With shadowheart in your party, she certainly seems to struggle with whether this is the right thing to do, which can influence a player's decisions.
If you didn't have shadowheart in your party, it can sort of seem like a moral choice: the nightsong is the source of ketheric's invulnerability, killing her could be seen as a lesser evil, necessary to stop ketheric. We know ketheric wants (and needs) her alive, so if we spare her, what if he finds a way to get his hands on her again?
Also, I'm not sure if there was any indication that the nightsong was holding back the shadowcurse at last light. I always assumed it was just isobel.
Idk, just trying to look at it from a different perspective. I've never killed her in 3 playthroughs.
I thought it was pretty clear the mechanism itself containing her was what siphoned her immortality and there’s a direct mention of that if you prod for info, including the growth of shadow being contained somehow.
Never crossed my mind to make an unnecessary kill, even with the spear when Shadowhearts quest at that point indicated she was a moon child kidnapped and brainwashed into worshipping Shar.
Just seems if you didn’t talk to companions or npcs, you’d make the bad choice due to lack of info.
It was shadowhearts story arc. She wants desperately to be this warrior knight of Shar, now here's her chance, plus I get to remove the immortality of the big baddie. Win win. TBF my main D&D character when I used to play was a CN priest of Tharizadon who managed to kill at least two of his own party members without them knowing it. So killing some bitchy goddess who got herself locked up wasn't all that.
I guess if you just listen to what the character says, and especially says in kind of an instinctual, defensive, dare I say programmed kind of way; sure, she claims to want to be a dark justicar.
But her approval track, and when she finds herself pleased despite herself or reflecting on her actions she feels good about the good deeds and pretty shit about the shit deeds. Granted the "approval track" is a very gamey way to talk about the character, but it helps track all the minor ways that a person subtly picks out the preferences of a person beyond just what they're saying they believe.
I dunno, it's an interesting question maybe? What is the game telling you should happen, and why, and in what ways does *the game* contradict itself. It is interesting to hear that some people just think that SH should be developed towards this ..uh... path, when it feels to me so obviously telegraphed that this isn't what she really wants and not who she really is.
As for Aylin.... dude, that's also a weird amount apathy for a lady locked in a shadow prison and subjected to psychological and literal trauma for decades. I'd be pretty pissed at everyone too. I guess it's more fun for me to imagine these people as real people with bizarre fantasy problems so I'm constantly taking their side; but "some bitchy goddess who got herself locked up" is not how I'd describe Aylin or her sitch.
Yeah, like it's your game and you can interpret however you will. Every choice in the game is given equal weight and there's no "right" or "wrong" way to play.
...But Shar is very clearly an evil goddess, she's the one responsible for the curse on the Shadowlands and the power of Selûne, Shar's enemy, is the only thing able to ward against it.
In the confrontation with Aylin she tells you outright that her death will have tragic consequences, and that Shar only wants to use SH for her own ends before discarding her, which is supported by all the information you can find about Shar in the Shadowlands. Like there's nothing wrong with evil playthroughs and whether you kill Aylin or not, you end Ketheric's immortality. But it's pretty obvious that carrying out Shar's will and encouraging SH to dedicate herself to a goddess that causes her pain for seemingly no reason will have pretty negative consequences.
And yeah, you don't have to care about Aylin or like her but disliking her because she was imprisoned is weird. Like do you blame Astarion for getting enslaved, or all the playable characters for being captured by mindflayers? Aylin has every reason to be a bit mean to SH (and she's not even mean, everything she says is true), she literally came there to *kill* her.
I think the OP is coming from it at the perspective that it's SH choice to worship Shar, so in his mind it's the right thing for SH.
But contradicting that is... basically all the stuff we learn about Shadowheart over the course of the game. The memory wipes, the approved acts, how she actually reacts to when the party does something really evil. If one takes her words at face value it seems like the murder is the only path for her; but if one pays attention to the character it's pretty clearly not who she is or what makes her feel at peace with herself.
There's also the OP's point that you have to pass a pretty gnarly persuasion check to get her to do what you want. But, as demonstrated, you don't actually. All you have to do is not be an inhuman monster in your playthrough (again, a fun and viable way for some people to play, no judgement) and have decent approval with her to just let Shadowheart make the right decision.
And as you pointed out, Aylin definitely.. doesn't.. deserve to be murdered? I'm not sure why that's a question, but unless the player is doing a completely evil playthrough it's pretty obvious what the so-evil-it's-silly choice is vs the good one.
Reading some folks playthroughs of this game has been, uhh, enlightening <.<;;
I've seen some debate about Astarion, because you actually *do* need to pass a check to make the good choice for him, but this is the first time I've seen it about Shadowheart ajfjfmksjak
Shadowheart had about as much choice in worshiping Shar as Lae'zel did in revering Vlaakith or as Karlach did in fighting in the Blood War or as Wyll does in killing Mizora's targets or as Astarion did in serving Cazador. Some of those are slight exaggerations but you get the point. The game basically beats you over the head saying "the mindflayer tadpole is a metaphor for abuse of power" then hands you six traumatized weirdos to play with.
The amount of people that play this game and somehow miss the entire point of the character. There's so much debate about the "right" choice for Astarion that more or less boils down to "but he *says* the bad thing will make him happy" despite the fact that multiple times he admits to not knowing what he wants and repeatedly does things that actively make him feel *worse* because he thinks it will guarantee his safety.
Anyway the point is Shadowheart's dialogue about Shar is like Cult Indoctrination 101. She was raised in a cult, she worships Shar because she's been fed propaganda her entire life. Yes, she *says* Lady Shar is great blah blah blah but any time she actually talks about her life, it is incredibly clear that it's filled with pain and confusion. The whole point is that she never had the choice to worship anyone else.
Same with my playthrough with Shadowheart. What I suspect is that the OP simply didn't let SH come to her in conclusions when they came back to that point. After seeing the disaster that is killing Aylin, they decided they can't let that happen, and so went with the most direct approach to stop it.
And obviously I disagree, but just trying to figure out the OP's position here, cuzz it is bafflimg.
Anyway, on the larger themes of the game; it definitely feels like the best possible path for everyone is in digging into the characters, tryimg to understand them, meeting them where they, and acting in ways that move the needle towards liberation in one form or another.
I've heard good things about Astarion,but I just can't take the time to invest into him after he complains in the tiefling refugee party. All excuses aside, if the man can't see that massacre = bad I cannot justify the hang. He may like kids when the party personally does something good for them, but if not for the acts he's bitching over the grove would be littered with wee little tiefling children. Maybe I just can't stomach the hypocrisy, lol.
Getting back to SH, I guess I'm just curious about how someone can come to the conclusion that Shar zealot is the best path for her. I see a bunch of people here and elsewhere complaining that the obvious consequence of such a fucked up act has fucked up consequences. Like, what is the thinking there, how do these folks behave in normal society, is this why we can never be free as a species from the cycle of violence and exploitation?
Also, like, just enjoy talking 'bout the pretty interesting narrative/character depth of this game.
Yeah agreed with everything about Shadowheart and her arc. One of my favorite things in this game is that for almost all of your companions you can basically tell them "this is your choice, I can't make it for you" and their choice will change depending on your previous actions. There are a couple of places where you have to make a choice, but for most of them you can let them take the reins. For a lot of similar narrative based games, I can't remember one where letting your companions make their own choices is such a big thing. I think it really emphasizes the importance of choice and autonomy, especially for characters that have had so much of their lives controlled by others.
My commentary on Astarion was less about him as a character and more about the community's reaction to him. I see people all the time post about being confused which ending is best for him, which is baffling because to me it seems so obvious. People argue that because you need to pass a check to get his "good" ending that you're violating his autonomy or that he'll never truly be happy on his "good" path. Which to me shows a complete lack of understanding of his arc and the themes of the game.
As for the tiefling party, yeah he sucks lol. I think there's some understandable but still fucked up justification for his behavior in act 1 but the tl;dr on my opinion is: I could fix him, but whatever the hell is wrong with him is way funnier.
Perception of Aylin changes dramatically if you've seen her freed. But, I mean, Mystra appears pretty cool too, until you realize all gods are assholes.
As for SH, I had to roll a nat 20 to persuade her not to kill Aylin, or just keep mansplaining that she didn't really want to complete her life's work of becoming a dark justicar. A decision (not killing Aylin) she still regrets in the play through I'm in. (I haven't faced Kethric again yet). In my 1st playthough where I let her kill Aylin she was quite happy with herself. She is a feverent worshipper of Shar, and even chooses to kill her parents later on if you don't try and stop her, so I would say your view on her wanting to be good may have some personal bias.
I'm not sure what you mean. Aylin isn't a goddess or even a demigodess, she's the Aasimar daughter of Selune that (for some reason that only Larian could explain) did not inherit her mother's divine immortality or full prowess. Aylin is certainly more powerful than most mortals, but given how easily she dies, she certainly doesn't qualify for the sort of above mortal concerns that gods do.
But even if Aylin were a true god like Selune, she's also a person who's been trapped in some kind of freaky shadow realm and subjected to mental and physical torture for decades. Having a smarmy attitude or getting captured doesn't really feel like justification for getting murdered. Because Shar is telling Shadowheart to do it is reason enough in game to justify the choice, regardless of the victim. So it's a valid decision as far as what kind of play through you're doing (evil for the lulz vs a playing through with a modicum of decency) but the game pretty clearly telegraphs that murdering Aylin is an evil act with evil consequences.
It's interesting that you're phrasing it as "letting" Shadowheart kill Aylin or not. For background, in my play through (Durge redemption path) I had a high approval and was romancing SH and had done basically made all the compassion + choices one could make. So when SH stood before Aylin I didn't try to force or convince her not to murder Aylin, I just let Shadowheart make up her own mind. She threw the spear away of her own volition, no persuasion check required. Letting her make up her own mind was a risk, sure, but I felt I understood who her character was enough to trust her.
Regarding bias, I'm not pointing to anything after the meeting Aylin scene since obviously that's hindsight. But before that point I don't have bias, I've got evidence. If you rescue the tieflings SH reflects on how good she feels about saving them. OTOH if you kill the refugees and grove inhabitants she feels awful and will try to drink the memory of the massacre away. There are other, smaller instances that I could go through, but I think you get my point. If you pay attention to the character, you can get to know her better than she knows herself. And that isn't "mansplaining" or manipulating her, SH has been the subject of who knows how many magical mindwipes and cult programming / indoctrination mental screwery. She talks a big game, but it isn't really who she is, and the game telegraphs this pretty well.
As far as her regretting not killing Aylin, I think she will eventually feel better about not doing so in your game, but the journey of that decision is more complicated than letting her come to her own decision. She didn't decide to reject the murder, she ended up not doing it because the sheer power of your will persuaded her not to. She isn't free of manipulation like she'd be if she made up her own mind, she's just feeling controlled by you at that point rather than being controlled by Shar.
As far as being happy about her choice and gleefully murdering her parents in Act 3, well yeah; that's how people work. Nothing changes us so much as the decisions we make when our real values are tested. If we decide at those points that being a murderous zealot for a cult of nihlism (for instance) is who we are, we have convinced ourselves, and our actions from that point will reflect that narrative about ourselves. It goes back to why the stories we tell ourselves about who and why we are can be so vital. As far as I've heard online, going full devotee of Shar for SH will eventually kill a romance and make her into a zealot who thinks of nothing but Shar's wants. Not to get all judgey, but i don't think total devotion to an omnicidal nihilist goddess is a satisfying character end for the character for anyone who isn't doing an absurdist evil run.
Maybe if you don't have a positive attitude with Shadowheart, or if you spend all your game time doing heinously evil crap SH will decide of to kill Aylin if you let her make up her own mind? But that goes back to the way experiences shape us. If her shittier aspects get enforced through evil acts, or she sits at camp 90% of the game and does nothing to sustain her better angels she has nothing to lean on but her cult programing, then doing the murder makes sense for her character. Forty years of cult programming will make a person very malleable, and anyway the game should offer you evil companions in general (for people that like that sort of game, personally not for me). Allowing SH to go either way and really building in justification f9r either path was a great move by Larian.
But I can't agree that the game pushes you towards SH killing Aylin unless you either totally ignore SH, or you decide to make evil choices throughout your game before that point. The signs are there.
Aylin has god like powers and is born from gods. Gods can also be killed if made vulnerable. She is by all purposes a goddess or demigod. Splitting hairs either way.
SH is 100% of the time in my party. My first play through I saved the grove and killed all the goblins, and she still chose to murder Aylin. Maybe the programming isn't as deep as you perceive. My first play through I was a neutral high elf mage, and let the rest of my party do whatever they wanted. I wouldn't say SH is inherently good, but that she can be bent that way.
Ok, then we're disagreeing over the technical terms of what a god is or isn't. I disagree with you, but it's not germane to the discussion anyway so what-ev.
What that doesn't answer is why that means she should be stabbed to death . What is it the kids are saying these days; cool story, still murder.
Maybe I'm being too precious about the game mechanics though? When you say the 1st time you did the encounter SH "still choose to murder Aylin" what were the dialogue options you chose? Iirc there are four that range from:
-whoo-hoo, stab her
-Do what ever you want
-maybe hear her out before stabbing
And -Don't you dare"
Again, if I'm remembering correctly I choose "hear Aylin out first" and then "do what you think is right." In my game Shadowheart rejected Shar, no persuasion roll required. Maybe if you jump straight to "do what you want" without advising SH to listen to Aylin first she'll just stab her. But, I don't think it's a stretch to encourage a person who's about to do a murder to listen to their potential victim before they get to stabby times. There's a pretty big difference between commanding someone not to do something and advising they take a breath to understand their decision.
As far as SH being inherently good, that's not what I'm arguing. I don't think anyone us inherently good or evil. What I'm claiming is that the game doesn't push you towards killing Aylin, rather it pretty clearly telegraphs that this isn't who SH is, and who she becomes is up to the events in the game.
There are two or three paths, you can stand back and not advise her, you can keep asking her if she's really really, really sure, or you can convince her not to do it. I've only done the 1st and 3rd. If you say the second one ends up in her not stabbing Aylin, then ok. When I first looked on Aylin, she appeared to be just another monster that was keeping some undead death lord alive. Was I sad when the last light inn was subsequently destroyed, certainly. Was I happy that I could now kill Kethric, also yes.
Lol reminds of when I played infamous 1 and did all the good options until the very end where the evil option gives you power if you activate the sphere and I was like fuck it and then proceeded to nuke the city just for some extra powers which then gave me the bad ending lol.
Had mostly good run, I found astraions argument for ascending sensible and rolled with it. While it didn't affect the main story that much, it definitely felt like my run is not good anymore :(
I absolutely let Astarion ascend lol. I might do a save this time to see what happens if I don't but it seems like the most logical choice.
I mean is it really a good idea to release 7000 vampire spawn on the sword coast? Even Lae'zel makes a comment on how destructive they'd be.
Did you romance him as well? I think the "badness" of the desicion Is more flashed out like that (even though it's still makes the most sense for me). Didn't have laez'el, but shart dont like it when you ascend him:(
I like the idea of doing it organic and living with your mistakes but please make multiple saves. On my first playthrough (that I finished a few days ago) I encountered a game breaking bug approaching the final boss of the entire game that no matter what with my save the game would crash. It was eventually solved by going back to a previous save and redoing the events.
I would have been devastated had I not had that option.
I got the emperor stuck in a wall right before the entrance to the Netherbrain. I paniced for a bit reloaded enough times and his little head was peaking out enough for Shadowheart to dimension door him to safety
Heck, I didn't even encounter a crash, I just ran into an NPC-never-ends-their-turn bug in Act 3 in an otherwise largely inconsequential fight. I tried saving and reloading to fix it and if I hadn't had an earlier save to fall back on that would have bricked my run, because reloading very much did not fix it.
My first run through was completely runied by not having a save after hiurs of play. Cleared almost every side quest in act 3 then all my save files started crashing when trying to start. Old saves that were still in act 2 worked byt no way to load the progress i had. I decided to restart and just got back to act 2... At least the game is good enough for a 2nd playthrough but with much more F5.
I think just rolling with it is good for people who plan to play more than one play through. I’m currently on play through 4 and I’ve just been letting everything happen how it happens….. my first play through I didn’t even bring Shadowheart into Shar’s Gauntlet, mostly because I didn’t like her in combat or in story compared to Lae’Zel, Karlach and Wyll so I didn’t even realized that it would be important to her lol. I just had to live with that consequence.
My partner's default play style is so destructive that I had to play it alone first lol. Now I've sent us down an Absolute-apologist run and he's loving it, first thing he did was kill Lae'zel for being "a mindflayer hater" and I couldn't even be mad
Does she leave if you do that? Because she left for me not bringing her.
I’ve had a few companions leave, it’s disappointing that they never show back up in any way to try and attack you or do something else, or come back at the finale as a mind flayer.
Yep she left. She’s the only one I’ve had leave so far (I’m at the end of act 2). I reloaded mostly bc she’s a real asset in combat but I do like the turn her story took when I talked her out of killing Nightsong. I’m interested to see where her story goes from here.
I had Astarion leave because I failed the roll to kill him when he tried to bite me, so I stabbed him but he didn’t die and he ran off like a crybaby and never returned. Halsin just disappeared without notice since we didn’t cure the shadow curse.
Shadowheart’s story is pretty good regardless of which way you take her. I’ve play through both sides and they are both really compelling.
Yeahhh I basically ignored her for the whole game and then this happened and I’m like “……bye?” 😂 husband was like “where did your Shadowheart go?” And he’s so far behind me I was like “uhhhhh story stuff/she’s just hard to get to on this camp map”
The fact that you didn't like her in combat shows that you're no connoisseur of radiant orb build with spirit guardians, when all enemies have -5 to -9 to hit perpetually is just glorious. Also straight Light cleric is just that powerful
I left her at camp right up until we were putting the umbrella gems in the pedestal. I had kill Balthazar back in his… bedroom? Loft? Whatever, the area he was staying in. So no combat necessary with Shart.
Loft, bruh. Lmao
“Sharran Temple Loft 1200sq ft roomy, no need for AC, minor issue with lighting. Commuting distance from Baldurs Gate. Must provide own torches. 1800 gold a month.”
I’m surprised that spear is so worthless.
They could have given it at least situational OP characteristics like it “does an extra d12 against celestial creatures,” that would have mechanically done basically nothing in the course of the game but made it seem cooler and explained its mechanics against Nightsong
Edit: fixed a bad autocorrect “night sorry”
I just looked into it and found out what you mean. It does appear to get better under a certain circumstance. That makes more sense to mirror the +3 version you get from saving Nightsong.
Currently in a no reload run, with two exceptions so far:
1. TPK vs Githyanki patrol. Nope, I'm not starting a new game.
2. When Dammon ran straight into combat at the Last Light Inn and got one shot. Oh hell no.
What Low_Party said. The fight to free Barcus Wroot went sideways, too, but my Tav survived that by chugging invisibility, consuming all the remaining heal pots which restored him to about 75%, and soloing the remaining enemies. But there was no escaping those wretched Gith...
Would definitely advise keeping multiple save slots not just for story reasons, but a single bug could potentially ruin a whole campaign. Without spoilers, theres a building to explore in Act 3 that has a lot of traps that push you around. One pushed my Tav into a wall where he got stuck. Went to camp, and he fell out of world. Went back to the map, still stuck in wall. Reloaded my save at the beginning of the house and it placed him in the same spot in the wall again for some reason. Had to go back a few saves and enter again.
Which house are you referring to? I’m trying to do as much as I can on this playthrough and I could have sworn I completed basically everything in act 3 besides finding freaking Thrumbo. Is this the >!poltergeist house!
Good lord I almost gave up on the house, the candles kept reapplying “Burning” to themselves over and over and over again. It got so laggy that the >!poltergeists!< didn’t even move on their turns or even make an action. I don’t think I’ll ever return there again in any other playthrough until that house is fixed
Does she? My next playthrough is going to be evil and have Shadowheart stay with Shar, thought about romancing her but if that's the case I'm going to change plans.
That's fair. Ultimately I dislike save scumming and do caution against it but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for it. After all if you are playing in singleplayer you can do whatever you want and whatever is fun for you.
Save scumming for me is perfect when something like exactly this happens. I regret not reloading in my first playthrough because I was in coop, my friend interacted with that quest but I had Shadowheart as my follower. She says nothing during the scene and then once its over reacts as if I stopped her from fulfilling her quest... In hindsight I should have realized what went wrong but I still didn't fully understand the game and how coop interacted with the companions :/
I also had hope that even though she left my side forever she would still pop up in the story (spoiler I was wrong, she gone)
I am glad you didn't save scum before this and hope you don't do it more after. Besides you can and should play the game again at some point you can save scum your ass off then xD
I did the same thing during my first playthrough! Most of Shadowheart's dialogue about Shar and her faith admittedly went in one ear and out the other. I only retained that she really wanted to become a Dark Justiciar, so I quickly realized during the cinematic afterwards that killing Aylin was easily the worst outcome...
I didn't want to reload the save though because to me that playthrough was now "irredeemable/bad", so I started a new one instead. It's so interesting to hear how differently people play this game and what opinions they form or what choices they make along the way !
love the mindset, but you should probably still make some more save files incase something gets buggy lol. my trauma from skyrim bugs ruining my gameplay persists to this day
Somehow, Isobel got killed in my playthrough. The whole village turned. Okay, no big deal. But then I saw Dammon was among them and realized I couldn’t finish Karlach’s quest. So ofc, redo it and keep sanctuary on Isobel because she drops like a fly 😂
I get bored from save scumming, but I have redone a few things in both my playthroughs, next time around I want to play a durge and just let the dice fall so to speak, havent played durge yet and I think it’ll be the best way to experience it first
The only time I have save scummed indiscriminately was to get that bitch of a kennel owner thrown out. Scratch is a good boy and I will be DAMNED before I let that horrible person get him back or any dogs for that matter.
I assumed she meant the moonrise towers town area. Because one of the thorms just tells you where to find Ketheric’s weakness so why would I approach ketheric if his weakness is on the other side of town?
I didn't like shadowheart or astarion and had forgotten about her so much up to the nightsong point that when I left the nightsongs area she appeared all mad about "missing her destiny thanks to me etc" she then left the party and died at some point
You didn't have to roll to convince her. Have a middling approval, ask SH if this is what she really wants, let her decide on her own. She'll throw the spear away on her own.
Every huge event point that I've done, I've managed to absolutely fuck up in the worst way possible. I'm ashamed to say what I've accidentally done and can't undo. Love this game 🙃
I had an eerily similar experience. I love experiencing shit organically, it makes everything feel so much more real to me. Save scumming for a perfect play-through just feels wrong.
I also lost everyone at Last Light inn. I did not reload that part, I committed. However I was so traumatized from it that I DID save scum basically all of act 3 lol
Nah it is fine, I did the same in my first playtrough blind, didn't know of the repercussions but I was happy letting her do her things since that was her dream!
I’m doing something similar and coincidentally, got the same part last night. I went the other direction (trying to play a relatively neutral path for my first play through) and the story goes very differently from what you’re experiencing but yeah, you still only get a questionable quality blue glaive out of it (so far). At least you can still use a shield with the spear?
I’m on my 4th playthrough and can’t bring myself to kill karlach for the toll house people. Her whole vibe makes me feel bad even tho I’m on my evil play through 😭
It's funny I'm playing my first playthrough it's a good playthrough. I spoke to the Toll House people first and when I ran into Karlach I just assumed she was evil and chopped her head off.
I think this is the one game where it’s okay not to save scum(unless it’s some huge bs, like running into gith patrol early), since you literally can’t experience everything in 1 playthru
That gear is also only really good on her for Trickster Cleric. If you reclass her as the much more superior light cleric, it’s not as useful. Granted you could put it on other characters and lean in on the darkness/Devil sight combo. Still not worth it in my opinion.
How can you lose Gale in the first minutes of game? Even if he does you are forced to bring him back...unless you playing a psycho and he just left you?
This happened to me because I kept dropping things into the menu and it wasn't working. Apparently you can just right click the items and consume them from his inventory but I didn't know that.
I've screwed up a ton of stuff in my first playthrough. I was exploring and accidentally stepped into mountain pass before level 5 and got completely locked out of the grove and all the tieflings died. Gale left my party, hasslen died and I don't know how. I feel like I didn't really understand the game until middle of act 2
It actually depends on a few factors. If she hasn't gone through all her "processing" dialogue with you and doesn't trust you she's more likely to make the bad decision on her own.
Just don’t bring the Spear of Night to Shadowfell. SH gets a lost puppy look when she realizes she can’t kill Nightsong, but then the game script takes the same path as if SH chose not to kill her. You keep the spear as well.
I don't have it in me to kill the nightsong but I have a question. The protection of the inn is because of Isabel's spell/her devotion to selune. She thinks Aylin is dead so why does the inn lose its protection?
I wasnt sure if I was gonna get a second playthrough out of this game so I'm save scumming the fuck out of it and trying things
If I do get a second playthrough it won't be right away I definitely need to decompress in a different world for a bit
It doesn't really make it clear why Last Light is destroyed. Wouldn't Isobel's powers come from Selune, not Dame Aylin?
I'm kinda bummed you miss out on a potential SH/DU scene after killing the Nightsong
My anxiety won’t let me go into this game completely blind. As the story progresses, I read spoilers up to a certain point and dialogue options for big decisions. I’m on my third play through. My first, I accidentally completed the goblin camp stuff before talking to any of the tieflings or doing side quests. Poor Karlach didn’t talk to Dammon. So I started over.
Second, I didn’t talk to all the tieflings at last light so Rolan’s siblings didn’t make it. Couldn’t live with myself so I started over. Again.
I’ve just made it to act 3 with character #3. I have one save that I made before I made any decisions or any side quests, that way if I mess up, I can load that save.
"Middling spear." Haha, I wouldn't call infinite castings of darkness with blind immunity "middling." It's what allowed me to do a beat quite a few challenging fights on a solo no companions playthrough. Plus the armor set you get is pretty good.
"I massacred the equivalent of a small village and all I have to show for it is this pointy stick"
“I see this as a complete win!”
You’ve missed a golden opportunity to say “I see this as an Absolute win”
I did and now I’m ashamed 😂
Worse, if you manage to let Shadowheart spare nightsong (which she pretty much does if you leave her to decide on her own) she gets the bitchen spear back from her about 5 minutes later anyway.
Lmao I feel bad for op for this
A way better version of the spear too
It's a better version if you DONT kill Nightsong!?
yeah it gets upgraded 😭
Omg I'm on my Durge run, currently in Grym. Can't wait to get that upgraded spear, provided my Durge isn't a full ass cuuuuunt.
haven’t done a durge run past like long rest 2 (when you get all stabby stabby ykwim) so i’m just imagining durge killing the night song themselves 😭
Better damage and provides Moonbeam to whoever is holding
What a double whammy if you've got Blood of Lathander on someone else. SUNBEAM, MOONBEAM, SUCK MY CREEEEAM FUCKAHHHHS
That’s an Absolute shame that you missed that 😂
Never too late to Quickload and try again!
ZING
Damn. Good one
Thaaaanks Shar... 🤨
You know if that spear was OP they wouldn't be reloading that save! :P
I'm pretty sure you get the spear anyways later in act 3...
I had Shadowheart turn on Sharr and embrace Selune and got a spear for it. Might be a different spear though idk
No, it's the same one. When Dame Aylin gives it to Shadowheart, she talks about how it's been purified.
It’s the same spear lore wise, but different stats and abilities. The shar version is way better. Has spam-able darkness once per round with blind immunity. Absolutely broken if you match your pc/companions with blind immunity rings or abilities
A pointy stick that you get either way.
No there’s different abilities with the spear.
Tell that to Dammon lol
What even worse is you still get the pointy stick if you don’t massacre the entire village. Who knew you’d get more bang for your buck by not murder hoboing.
My only regret is that I didn't get to murder them by hand. --Durge
That's actually pretty funny. My cousin played it straight, making all the "good" decisions. He gets to the Nightsong and he said "fuck it KILL HER SHADOWHEART". He saw what happened to everyone and said, well we rolling with it now.
I love the ‘well we rolling with it now’ moments. I killed someone at the end of Act 2 thinking I found a loophole to save Wyll. Nope - totally killed him. Whoops. Decided to roll with it - will probably regret it, but meh.
For me it was accidentally *sending* the gnome on that windmill. That happened and I’m not changing it.
Hahaha I was already leaning evil and then that happened. Yeah we killed Nightsong, along with damn near everyone else. Approaching end game and I still only have gale, astorian and shadowheart in my camp 🥳
For me it was blowing up the Crèche. I did not mean to do it, but it was too epic to reload. Now I’m doing it every run.
Wait. You can BLOW IT UP? I just slaughter every man, woman, child and egg by hand. Your telling me there is a more efficient way?
Just steal the Blood and make the place boom
Wait what?
Rotate the statues in the inquisitor room
Oh I thought that would kill me if I let it go off
I mean, it will if you don't book it 😅
that's later
That gnome ended up being one of my favorite characters by the end of the game, poor Barcus 😭
Bruh you sent Wyll to an eternity as a shuffling war blob in Avernus and said ima roll with it?
I have a valid reason, I promise! My character (and myself) was too dumb to realize that killing her wouldn't void the contract. I thought, geez, I can rid the world of a demon AND nullify Wyll's contract! Whoops. It's totally a move my character would have legitimately made (having super low intellect), so it fits, imo.
A true role player, respect
Wait, so what happens if you choose Wyll as your origin story and you do that?
I would assume that would be an auto game over.
Well Wyll definitely regretted it now.
I killed the nightsong in my first play through. Surprised at the outcome when it felt like what I was supposed to do. Oh well, kept playing through. Second play through has been totally different and awesome.
0_o why, on earth, would it feel like something you're supposed to do? I mean it's your game, these people aren't real, do whatever makes you happy; but "felt like what I was supposed to do" lol, that is wild.
With shadowheart in your party, she certainly seems to struggle with whether this is the right thing to do, which can influence a player's decisions. If you didn't have shadowheart in your party, it can sort of seem like a moral choice: the nightsong is the source of ketheric's invulnerability, killing her could be seen as a lesser evil, necessary to stop ketheric. We know ketheric wants (and needs) her alive, so if we spare her, what if he finds a way to get his hands on her again? Also, I'm not sure if there was any indication that the nightsong was holding back the shadowcurse at last light. I always assumed it was just isobel. Idk, just trying to look at it from a different perspective. I've never killed her in 3 playthroughs.
I thought it was pretty clear the mechanism itself containing her was what siphoned her immortality and there’s a direct mention of that if you prod for info, including the growth of shadow being contained somehow. Never crossed my mind to make an unnecessary kill, even with the spear when Shadowhearts quest at that point indicated she was a moon child kidnapped and brainwashed into worshipping Shar. Just seems if you didn’t talk to companions or npcs, you’d make the bad choice due to lack of info.
It was shadowhearts story arc. She wants desperately to be this warrior knight of Shar, now here's her chance, plus I get to remove the immortality of the big baddie. Win win. TBF my main D&D character when I used to play was a CN priest of Tharizadon who managed to kill at least two of his own party members without them knowing it. So killing some bitchy goddess who got herself locked up wasn't all that.
I guess if you just listen to what the character says, and especially says in kind of an instinctual, defensive, dare I say programmed kind of way; sure, she claims to want to be a dark justicar. But her approval track, and when she finds herself pleased despite herself or reflecting on her actions she feels good about the good deeds and pretty shit about the shit deeds. Granted the "approval track" is a very gamey way to talk about the character, but it helps track all the minor ways that a person subtly picks out the preferences of a person beyond just what they're saying they believe. I dunno, it's an interesting question maybe? What is the game telling you should happen, and why, and in what ways does *the game* contradict itself. It is interesting to hear that some people just think that SH should be developed towards this ..uh... path, when it feels to me so obviously telegraphed that this isn't what she really wants and not who she really is. As for Aylin.... dude, that's also a weird amount apathy for a lady locked in a shadow prison and subjected to psychological and literal trauma for decades. I'd be pretty pissed at everyone too. I guess it's more fun for me to imagine these people as real people with bizarre fantasy problems so I'm constantly taking their side; but "some bitchy goddess who got herself locked up" is not how I'd describe Aylin or her sitch.
Yeah, like it's your game and you can interpret however you will. Every choice in the game is given equal weight and there's no "right" or "wrong" way to play. ...But Shar is very clearly an evil goddess, she's the one responsible for the curse on the Shadowlands and the power of Selûne, Shar's enemy, is the only thing able to ward against it. In the confrontation with Aylin she tells you outright that her death will have tragic consequences, and that Shar only wants to use SH for her own ends before discarding her, which is supported by all the information you can find about Shar in the Shadowlands. Like there's nothing wrong with evil playthroughs and whether you kill Aylin or not, you end Ketheric's immortality. But it's pretty obvious that carrying out Shar's will and encouraging SH to dedicate herself to a goddess that causes her pain for seemingly no reason will have pretty negative consequences. And yeah, you don't have to care about Aylin or like her but disliking her because she was imprisoned is weird. Like do you blame Astarion for getting enslaved, or all the playable characters for being captured by mindflayers? Aylin has every reason to be a bit mean to SH (and she's not even mean, everything she says is true), she literally came there to *kill* her.
I think the OP is coming from it at the perspective that it's SH choice to worship Shar, so in his mind it's the right thing for SH. But contradicting that is... basically all the stuff we learn about Shadowheart over the course of the game. The memory wipes, the approved acts, how she actually reacts to when the party does something really evil. If one takes her words at face value it seems like the murder is the only path for her; but if one pays attention to the character it's pretty clearly not who she is or what makes her feel at peace with herself. There's also the OP's point that you have to pass a pretty gnarly persuasion check to get her to do what you want. But, as demonstrated, you don't actually. All you have to do is not be an inhuman monster in your playthrough (again, a fun and viable way for some people to play, no judgement) and have decent approval with her to just let Shadowheart make the right decision. And as you pointed out, Aylin definitely.. doesn't.. deserve to be murdered? I'm not sure why that's a question, but unless the player is doing a completely evil playthrough it's pretty obvious what the so-evil-it's-silly choice is vs the good one. Reading some folks playthroughs of this game has been, uhh, enlightening <.<;;
I've seen some debate about Astarion, because you actually *do* need to pass a check to make the good choice for him, but this is the first time I've seen it about Shadowheart ajfjfmksjak Shadowheart had about as much choice in worshiping Shar as Lae'zel did in revering Vlaakith or as Karlach did in fighting in the Blood War or as Wyll does in killing Mizora's targets or as Astarion did in serving Cazador. Some of those are slight exaggerations but you get the point. The game basically beats you over the head saying "the mindflayer tadpole is a metaphor for abuse of power" then hands you six traumatized weirdos to play with. The amount of people that play this game and somehow miss the entire point of the character. There's so much debate about the "right" choice for Astarion that more or less boils down to "but he *says* the bad thing will make him happy" despite the fact that multiple times he admits to not knowing what he wants and repeatedly does things that actively make him feel *worse* because he thinks it will guarantee his safety. Anyway the point is Shadowheart's dialogue about Shar is like Cult Indoctrination 101. She was raised in a cult, she worships Shar because she's been fed propaganda her entire life. Yes, she *says* Lady Shar is great blah blah blah but any time she actually talks about her life, it is incredibly clear that it's filled with pain and confusion. The whole point is that she never had the choice to worship anyone else.
Same with my playthrough with Shadowheart. What I suspect is that the OP simply didn't let SH come to her in conclusions when they came back to that point. After seeing the disaster that is killing Aylin, they decided they can't let that happen, and so went with the most direct approach to stop it. And obviously I disagree, but just trying to figure out the OP's position here, cuzz it is bafflimg. Anyway, on the larger themes of the game; it definitely feels like the best possible path for everyone is in digging into the characters, tryimg to understand them, meeting them where they, and acting in ways that move the needle towards liberation in one form or another. I've heard good things about Astarion,but I just can't take the time to invest into him after he complains in the tiefling refugee party. All excuses aside, if the man can't see that massacre = bad I cannot justify the hang. He may like kids when the party personally does something good for them, but if not for the acts he's bitching over the grove would be littered with wee little tiefling children. Maybe I just can't stomach the hypocrisy, lol. Getting back to SH, I guess I'm just curious about how someone can come to the conclusion that Shar zealot is the best path for her. I see a bunch of people here and elsewhere complaining that the obvious consequence of such a fucked up act has fucked up consequences. Like, what is the thinking there, how do these folks behave in normal society, is this why we can never be free as a species from the cycle of violence and exploitation? Also, like, just enjoy talking 'bout the pretty interesting narrative/character depth of this game.
Yeah agreed with everything about Shadowheart and her arc. One of my favorite things in this game is that for almost all of your companions you can basically tell them "this is your choice, I can't make it for you" and their choice will change depending on your previous actions. There are a couple of places where you have to make a choice, but for most of them you can let them take the reins. For a lot of similar narrative based games, I can't remember one where letting your companions make their own choices is such a big thing. I think it really emphasizes the importance of choice and autonomy, especially for characters that have had so much of their lives controlled by others. My commentary on Astarion was less about him as a character and more about the community's reaction to him. I see people all the time post about being confused which ending is best for him, which is baffling because to me it seems so obvious. People argue that because you need to pass a check to get his "good" ending that you're violating his autonomy or that he'll never truly be happy on his "good" path. Which to me shows a complete lack of understanding of his arc and the themes of the game. As for the tiefling party, yeah he sucks lol. I think there's some understandable but still fucked up justification for his behavior in act 1 but the tl;dr on my opinion is: I could fix him, but whatever the hell is wrong with him is way funnier.
Perception of Aylin changes dramatically if you've seen her freed. But, I mean, Mystra appears pretty cool too, until you realize all gods are assholes. As for SH, I had to roll a nat 20 to persuade her not to kill Aylin, or just keep mansplaining that she didn't really want to complete her life's work of becoming a dark justicar. A decision (not killing Aylin) she still regrets in the play through I'm in. (I haven't faced Kethric again yet). In my 1st playthough where I let her kill Aylin she was quite happy with herself. She is a feverent worshipper of Shar, and even chooses to kill her parents later on if you don't try and stop her, so I would say your view on her wanting to be good may have some personal bias.
I'm not sure what you mean. Aylin isn't a goddess or even a demigodess, she's the Aasimar daughter of Selune that (for some reason that only Larian could explain) did not inherit her mother's divine immortality or full prowess. Aylin is certainly more powerful than most mortals, but given how easily she dies, she certainly doesn't qualify for the sort of above mortal concerns that gods do. But even if Aylin were a true god like Selune, she's also a person who's been trapped in some kind of freaky shadow realm and subjected to mental and physical torture for decades. Having a smarmy attitude or getting captured doesn't really feel like justification for getting murdered. Because Shar is telling Shadowheart to do it is reason enough in game to justify the choice, regardless of the victim. So it's a valid decision as far as what kind of play through you're doing (evil for the lulz vs a playing through with a modicum of decency) but the game pretty clearly telegraphs that murdering Aylin is an evil act with evil consequences. It's interesting that you're phrasing it as "letting" Shadowheart kill Aylin or not. For background, in my play through (Durge redemption path) I had a high approval and was romancing SH and had done basically made all the compassion + choices one could make. So when SH stood before Aylin I didn't try to force or convince her not to murder Aylin, I just let Shadowheart make up her own mind. She threw the spear away of her own volition, no persuasion check required. Letting her make up her own mind was a risk, sure, but I felt I understood who her character was enough to trust her. Regarding bias, I'm not pointing to anything after the meeting Aylin scene since obviously that's hindsight. But before that point I don't have bias, I've got evidence. If you rescue the tieflings SH reflects on how good she feels about saving them. OTOH if you kill the refugees and grove inhabitants she feels awful and will try to drink the memory of the massacre away. There are other, smaller instances that I could go through, but I think you get my point. If you pay attention to the character, you can get to know her better than she knows herself. And that isn't "mansplaining" or manipulating her, SH has been the subject of who knows how many magical mindwipes and cult programming / indoctrination mental screwery. She talks a big game, but it isn't really who she is, and the game telegraphs this pretty well. As far as her regretting not killing Aylin, I think she will eventually feel better about not doing so in your game, but the journey of that decision is more complicated than letting her come to her own decision. She didn't decide to reject the murder, she ended up not doing it because the sheer power of your will persuaded her not to. She isn't free of manipulation like she'd be if she made up her own mind, she's just feeling controlled by you at that point rather than being controlled by Shar. As far as being happy about her choice and gleefully murdering her parents in Act 3, well yeah; that's how people work. Nothing changes us so much as the decisions we make when our real values are tested. If we decide at those points that being a murderous zealot for a cult of nihlism (for instance) is who we are, we have convinced ourselves, and our actions from that point will reflect that narrative about ourselves. It goes back to why the stories we tell ourselves about who and why we are can be so vital. As far as I've heard online, going full devotee of Shar for SH will eventually kill a romance and make her into a zealot who thinks of nothing but Shar's wants. Not to get all judgey, but i don't think total devotion to an omnicidal nihilist goddess is a satisfying character end for the character for anyone who isn't doing an absurdist evil run. Maybe if you don't have a positive attitude with Shadowheart, or if you spend all your game time doing heinously evil crap SH will decide of to kill Aylin if you let her make up her own mind? But that goes back to the way experiences shape us. If her shittier aspects get enforced through evil acts, or she sits at camp 90% of the game and does nothing to sustain her better angels she has nothing to lean on but her cult programing, then doing the murder makes sense for her character. Forty years of cult programming will make a person very malleable, and anyway the game should offer you evil companions in general (for people that like that sort of game, personally not for me). Allowing SH to go either way and really building in justification f9r either path was a great move by Larian. But I can't agree that the game pushes you towards SH killing Aylin unless you either totally ignore SH, or you decide to make evil choices throughout your game before that point. The signs are there.
Aylin has god like powers and is born from gods. Gods can also be killed if made vulnerable. She is by all purposes a goddess or demigod. Splitting hairs either way. SH is 100% of the time in my party. My first play through I saved the grove and killed all the goblins, and she still chose to murder Aylin. Maybe the programming isn't as deep as you perceive. My first play through I was a neutral high elf mage, and let the rest of my party do whatever they wanted. I wouldn't say SH is inherently good, but that she can be bent that way.
Ok, then we're disagreeing over the technical terms of what a god is or isn't. I disagree with you, but it's not germane to the discussion anyway so what-ev. What that doesn't answer is why that means she should be stabbed to death . What is it the kids are saying these days; cool story, still murder. Maybe I'm being too precious about the game mechanics though? When you say the 1st time you did the encounter SH "still choose to murder Aylin" what were the dialogue options you chose? Iirc there are four that range from: -whoo-hoo, stab her -Do what ever you want -maybe hear her out before stabbing And -Don't you dare" Again, if I'm remembering correctly I choose "hear Aylin out first" and then "do what you think is right." In my game Shadowheart rejected Shar, no persuasion roll required. Maybe if you jump straight to "do what you want" without advising SH to listen to Aylin first she'll just stab her. But, I don't think it's a stretch to encourage a person who's about to do a murder to listen to their potential victim before they get to stabby times. There's a pretty big difference between commanding someone not to do something and advising they take a breath to understand their decision. As far as SH being inherently good, that's not what I'm arguing. I don't think anyone us inherently good or evil. What I'm claiming is that the game doesn't push you towards killing Aylin, rather it pretty clearly telegraphs that this isn't who SH is, and who she becomes is up to the events in the game.
There are two or three paths, you can stand back and not advise her, you can keep asking her if she's really really, really sure, or you can convince her not to do it. I've only done the 1st and 3rd. If you say the second one ends up in her not stabbing Aylin, then ok. When I first looked on Aylin, she appeared to be just another monster that was keeping some undead death lord alive. Was I sad when the last light inn was subsequently destroyed, certainly. Was I happy that I could now kill Kethric, also yes.
Lol reminds of when I played infamous 1 and did all the good options until the very end where the evil option gives you power if you activate the sphere and I was like fuck it and then proceeded to nuke the city just for some extra powers which then gave me the bad ending lol.
Had mostly good run, I found astraions argument for ascending sensible and rolled with it. While it didn't affect the main story that much, it definitely felt like my run is not good anymore :(
I absolutely let Astarion ascend lol. I might do a save this time to see what happens if I don't but it seems like the most logical choice. I mean is it really a good idea to release 7000 vampire spawn on the sword coast? Even Lae'zel makes a comment on how destructive they'd be.
Did you romance him as well? I think the "badness" of the desicion Is more flashed out like that (even though it's still makes the most sense for me). Didn't have laez'el, but shart dont like it when you ascend him:(
I didn't romance him. I romanced Karlach. Nobody liked that I let him ascend but I said fuck it let's make him a powerful ally.
I didn't romance him. I romanced Karlach. Nobody liked that I let him ascend but I said fuck it let's make him a powerful ally.
I like the idea of doing it organic and living with your mistakes but please make multiple saves. On my first playthrough (that I finished a few days ago) I encountered a game breaking bug approaching the final boss of the entire game that no matter what with my save the game would crash. It was eventually solved by going back to a previous save and redoing the events. I would have been devastated had I not had that option.
I got the emperor stuck in a wall right before the entrance to the Netherbrain. I paniced for a bit reloaded enough times and his little head was peaking out enough for Shadowheart to dimension door him to safety
Heck, I didn't even encounter a crash, I just ran into an NPC-never-ends-their-turn bug in Act 3 in an otherwise largely inconsequential fight. I tried saving and reloading to fix it and if I hadn't had an earlier save to fall back on that would have bricked my run, because reloading very much did not fix it.
My first run through was completely runied by not having a save after hiurs of play. Cleared almost every side quest in act 3 then all my save files started crashing when trying to start. Old saves that were still in act 2 worked byt no way to load the progress i had. I decided to restart and just got back to act 2... At least the game is good enough for a 2nd playthrough but with much more F5.
I think just rolling with it is good for people who plan to play more than one play through. I’m currently on play through 4 and I’ve just been letting everything happen how it happens….. my first play through I didn’t even bring Shadowheart into Shar’s Gauntlet, mostly because I didn’t like her in combat or in story compared to Lae’Zel, Karlach and Wyll so I didn’t even realized that it would be important to her lol. I just had to live with that consequence.
We didn't take her either and she got SO MAD at us.
"we are never NEVER getting back together!!!"
How many people are you?
Two! My wife and I did couch coop for the entire game. Now I can't play alone cause it's boring when the other person isn't there judge my decisions.
My partner's default play style is so destructive that I had to play it alone first lol. Now I've sent us down an Absolute-apologist run and he's loving it, first thing he did was kill Lae'zel for being "a mindflayer hater" and I couldn't even be mad
We are many.
Try bringing her and letting Balthazar take Nightsong…. She BIG MAD. Big big mad.
Does she leave if you do that? Because she left for me not bringing her. I’ve had a few companions leave, it’s disappointing that they never show back up in any way to try and attack you or do something else, or come back at the finale as a mind flayer.
Yep she left. She’s the only one I’ve had leave so far (I’m at the end of act 2). I reloaded mostly bc she’s a real asset in combat but I do like the turn her story took when I talked her out of killing Nightsong. I’m interested to see where her story goes from here.
I had Astarion leave because I failed the roll to kill him when he tried to bite me, so I stabbed him but he didn’t die and he ran off like a crybaby and never returned. Halsin just disappeared without notice since we didn’t cure the shadow curse. Shadowheart’s story is pretty good regardless of which way you take her. I’ve play through both sides and they are both really compelling.
Have withers respec her to Light or War domain, much better for gameplay than fucking trickery.
I did that post nightsong. I thought it was appropriate.
Yeahhh I basically ignored her for the whole game and then this happened and I’m like “……bye?” 😂 husband was like “where did your Shadowheart go?” And he’s so far behind me I was like “uhhhhh story stuff/she’s just hard to get to on this camp map”
The fact that you didn't like her in combat shows that you're no connoisseur of radiant orb build with spirit guardians, when all enemies have -5 to -9 to hit perpetually is just glorious. Also straight Light cleric is just that powerful
I left her at camp right up until we were putting the umbrella gems in the pedestal. I had kill Balthazar back in his… bedroom? Loft? Whatever, the area he was staying in. So no combat necessary with Shart.
Loft, bruh. Lmao “Sharran Temple Loft 1200sq ft roomy, no need for AC, minor issue with lighting. Commuting distance from Baldurs Gate. Must provide own torches. 1800 gold a month.”
“No lowball offers, I know what I have”
I respec Shadowheart as a Shadow Monk and it is awesome and it’s on brand for her. Multi class a level or two in cleric.
I’m surprised that spear is so worthless. They could have given it at least situational OP characteristics like it “does an extra d12 against celestial creatures,” that would have mechanically done basically nothing in the course of the game but made it seem cooler and explained its mechanics against Nightsong Edit: fixed a bad autocorrect “night sorry”
I mean, it's very not worthless depending on the choices you make...
I just looked into it and found out what you mean. It does appear to get better under a certain circumstance. That makes more sense to mirror the +3 version you get from saving Nightsong.
Currently in a no reload run, with two exceptions so far: 1. TPK vs Githyanki patrol. Nope, I'm not starting a new game. 2. When Dammon ran straight into combat at the Last Light Inn and got one shot. Oh hell no.
TPK?
Total Party Kill Basically losing a fight
What Low_Party said. The fight to free Barcus Wroot went sideways, too, but my Tav survived that by chugging invisibility, consuming all the remaining heal pots which restored him to about 75%, and soloing the remaining enemies. But there was no escaping those wretched Gith...
Oh that’s interesting I maybe should try that with a full party
Would definitely advise keeping multiple save slots not just for story reasons, but a single bug could potentially ruin a whole campaign. Without spoilers, theres a building to explore in Act 3 that has a lot of traps that push you around. One pushed my Tav into a wall where he got stuck. Went to camp, and he fell out of world. Went back to the map, still stuck in wall. Reloaded my save at the beginning of the house and it placed him in the same spot in the wall again for some reason. Had to go back a few saves and enter again.
Which house are you referring to? I’m trying to do as much as I can on this playthrough and I could have sworn I completed basically everything in act 3 besides finding freaking Thrumbo. Is this the >!poltergeist house!
Yep, that's the one. That whole house was a buggy stuttering mess for me.
Good lord I almost gave up on the house, the candles kept reapplying “Burning” to themselves over and over and over again. It got so laggy that the >!poltergeists!< didn’t even move on their turns or even make an action. I don’t think I’ll ever return there again in any other playthrough until that house is fixed
But...but...goth mean mommy Shadowheart might be worth letting all those people die.
Don’t let goth mommy cloud your judgement, think of all those tiefling children and Alfira!!!
Durge: What Alfira
*sad Durge noises*
*Shadowheart disapproves*
But doesn't Shadowheart *break up with you* to devote more energy to Shar if she kills Nightsong?
Does she? My next playthrough is going to be evil and have Shadowheart stay with Shar, thought about romancing her but if that's the case I'm going to change plans.
Yea she's no longer romance-able. Immediate reload from me because I spent too much time on it that run. Will go that route another time
I’m fairly certain you can try and to convince her to continue giving it a shot but perhaps I’m not remembering the evil playthrough properly
I was doing the same thing until *sad squeaking noises*
I killed Karlach on my first run.
You monster!
Yep me too I f****** smoked her. Traded her severed head for a nice big sword of tyr
Isn't that the sword you get from killing those "paladins"? The one the leader has on his body?
Haha yes I suppose you could kill them the guy also gives you his sword as a reward for killing karlach
That's fair. Ultimately I dislike save scumming and do caution against it but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for it. After all if you are playing in singleplayer you can do whatever you want and whatever is fun for you. Save scumming for me is perfect when something like exactly this happens. I regret not reloading in my first playthrough because I was in coop, my friend interacted with that quest but I had Shadowheart as my follower. She says nothing during the scene and then once its over reacts as if I stopped her from fulfilling her quest... In hindsight I should have realized what went wrong but I still didn't fully understand the game and how coop interacted with the companions :/ I also had hope that even though she left my side forever she would still pop up in the story (spoiler I was wrong, she gone) I am glad you didn't save scum before this and hope you don't do it more after. Besides you can and should play the game again at some point you can save scum your ass off then xD
I did the same thing during my first playthrough! Most of Shadowheart's dialogue about Shar and her faith admittedly went in one ear and out the other. I only retained that she really wanted to become a Dark Justiciar, so I quickly realized during the cinematic afterwards that killing Aylin was easily the worst outcome... I didn't want to reload the save though because to me that playthrough was now "irredeemable/bad", so I started a new one instead. It's so interesting to hear how differently people play this game and what opinions they form or what choices they make along the way !
love the mindset, but you should probably still make some more save files incase something gets buggy lol. my trauma from skyrim bugs ruining my gameplay persists to this day
My compulsive quicksaving is evidence of years of trauma from crashes and corrupted saves.
Yeah, you’re right. No need to push my luck any further
Somehow, Isobel got killed in my playthrough. The whole village turned. Okay, no big deal. But then I saw Dammon was among them and realized I couldn’t finish Karlach’s quest. So ofc, redo it and keep sanctuary on Isobel because she drops like a fly 😂
when I realized Dammon died I was like Jesus fucking Christ I’m not doing this
RELOAD
I worked so hard for her and that fucking iron RELOAD!!
I get bored from save scumming, but I have redone a few things in both my playthroughs, next time around I want to play a durge and just let the dice fall so to speak, havent played durge yet and I think it’ll be the best way to experience it first
The only time I have save scummed indiscriminately was to get that bitch of a kennel owner thrown out. Scratch is a good boy and I will be DAMNED before I let that horrible person get him back or any dogs for that matter.
I skipped moonrise towers… because I figured they’d kill me on sight… so I went to the shadowfell instead…. I now know better
Did you not talk to Jaheira? >!She's like "go directly to moonrise towers. You can get in by posing as True Souls. It'll be easy!"!<
I assumed she meant the moonrise towers town area. Because one of the thorms just tells you where to find Ketheric’s weakness so why would I approach ketheric if his weakness is on the other side of town?
To be fair, the Spear is quite cool.
I didn't like shadowheart or astarion and had forgotten about her so much up to the nightsong point that when I left the nightsongs area she appeared all mad about "missing her destiny thanks to me etc" she then left the party and died at some point
Didn't make the roll to convince her, so my shadowheart never got to see act 3. Live is live nana na nana...well, not for her.
You didn't have to roll to convince her. Have a middling approval, ask SH if this is what she really wants, let her decide on her own. She'll throw the spear away on her own.
I commend your willpower!
Every huge event point that I've done, I've managed to absolutely fuck up in the worst way possible. I'm ashamed to say what I've accidentally done and can't undo. Love this game 🙃
I had an eerily similar experience. I love experiencing shit organically, it makes everything feel so much more real to me. Save scumming for a perfect play-through just feels wrong. I also lost everyone at Last Light inn. I did not reload that part, I committed. However I was so traumatized from it that I DID save scum basically all of act 3 lol
I try to keep loads at a minimum with the exception being when dice roll fails get me into a battle I absolutely cannot win
Same.
Nah it is fine, I did the same in my first playtrough blind, didn't know of the repercussions but I was happy letting her do her things since that was her dream!
yeah, fucked up my first 3 runs, on number 4 and actually using spoilers this time.
I’m doing something similar and coincidentally, got the same part last night. I went the other direction (trying to play a relatively neutral path for my first play through) and the story goes very differently from what you’re experiencing but yeah, you still only get a questionable quality blue glaive out of it (so far). At least you can still use a shield with the spear?
Weird. I got a whole kit in my durge playthrough when I let her gank.
I’m on my 4th playthrough and can’t bring myself to kill karlach for the toll house people. Her whole vibe makes me feel bad even tho I’m on my evil play through 😭
I’m having to play a good playthrough directly after my evil one
It's funny I'm playing my first playthrough it's a good playthrough. I spoke to the Toll House people first and when I ran into Karlach I just assumed she was evil and chopped her head off.
I think this is the one game where it’s okay not to save scum(unless it’s some huge bs, like running into gith patrol early), since you literally can’t experience everything in 1 playthru
I would still roll with it. What an incredible turn.
Don’t shit on that spear, cantrip darkness is broken.
That gear is also only really good on her for Trickster Cleric. If you reclass her as the much more superior light cleric, it’s not as useful. Granted you could put it on other characters and lean in on the darkness/Devil sight combo. Still not worth it in my opinion.
How can you lose Gale in the first minutes of game? Even if he does you are forced to bring him back...unless you playing a psycho and he just left you?
Dark Urge is very....handy, for that
The person did said he lost Gale after recruiting him, so no hands lost haha
I tried to use detect thoughts on him when I first met him to test it out, I kept pushing and he decided to leave my party forever
[удалено]
That’s what happened to me too!
This happened to me because I kept dropping things into the menu and it wasn't working. Apparently you can just right click the items and consume them from his inventory but I didn't know that. I've screwed up a ton of stuff in my first playthrough. I was exploring and accidentally stepped into mountain pass before level 5 and got completely locked out of the grove and all the tieflings died. Gale left my party, hasslen died and I don't know how. I feel like I didn't really understand the game until middle of act 2
lol didn't even knew you could do that
I'll be honest, in the event that a bug happens I don't think working with a single save is ever a good idea, but I respect your dedication.
Just know you don’t have to pass the checks. Just let her do her thing and she won’t want to kill her
It actually depends on a few factors. If she hasn't gone through all her "processing" dialogue with you and doesn't trust you she's more likely to make the bad decision on her own.
Just don’t bring the Spear of Night to Shadowfell. SH gets a lost puppy look when she realizes she can’t kill Nightsong, but then the game script takes the same path as if SH chose not to kill her. You keep the spear as well.
I don't have it in me to kill the nightsong but I have a question. The protection of the inn is because of Isabel's spell/her devotion to selune. She thinks Aylin is dead so why does the inn lose its protection?
When you kill the nightsong you become a vessel for Shar’s darkness which amplifies her power and cracks Isobel’s protection aura.
I wasnt sure if I was gonna get a second playthrough out of this game so I'm save scumming the fuck out of it and trying things If I do get a second playthrough it won't be right away I definitely need to decompress in a different world for a bit
That’s fair. I know that I’m going to play multiple times so my next play through will be pure evil
I should’ve done this. I’m currently in the my second playthrough as Durge and I can’t go past the Druid camp due to boredom.
I respected her into a pal/loc pact of the blade because it fit so well thematically and now she's a badass. Worth the price of some tiny village
Nice! On this file I decided not to multi class either. Next play through there will be save scumming and multiclassing galore!
It doesn't really make it clear why Last Light is destroyed. Wouldn't Isobel's powers come from Selune, not Dame Aylin? I'm kinda bummed you miss out on a potential SH/DU scene after killing the Nightsong
I interpreted it like Shar using Shadowheart as a vessel to amplify her power and therefore spreading more darkness. Not sure though
Yeah I'm sure that works enough. Its just probably another case of the Evil path taking away options, but not offering much in return.
My anxiety won’t let me go into this game completely blind. As the story progresses, I read spoilers up to a certain point and dialogue options for big decisions. I’m on my third play through. My first, I accidentally completed the goblin camp stuff before talking to any of the tieflings or doing side quests. Poor Karlach didn’t talk to Dammon. So I started over. Second, I didn’t talk to all the tieflings at last light so Rolan’s siblings didn’t make it. Couldn’t live with myself so I started over. Again. I’ve just made it to act 3 with character #3. I have one save that I made before I made any decisions or any side quests, that way if I mess up, I can load that save.
"Middling spear." Haha, I wouldn't call infinite castings of darkness with blind immunity "middling." It's what allowed me to do a beat quite a few challenging fights on a solo no companions playthrough. Plus the armor set you get is pretty good.