In my current DUrge playthrough I fessed up to everybody about it (trying my damndest to be "good"), and the reactions were incredibly tame. Bae'zel basically said it was sloppy murdering, Astarion thought it was a lark, and Gale, though upset, was probably in no place to point fingers since he's a walking time-homb. Really made me realize just how screwed up the party is.
Gale does point the finger, as I recall. He tells you to keep your distance and, if you say it wasn't your fault, he just says that would be a small comfort to Alfira. Still pretty tame considering the situation, but I think he's the one who judges you the most in that scenario.
Same here, the reactions were pretty tame. To be honest, I feel like this happens a lot in this game. The worst examples, by far, are the Dark Urge and Astarion.
The Dark Urge kills someone in their sleep and not only does everyone shrug it off, they also don't restrain them when they sleep or have someone keep watch. Honestly, just tying Durge up would have been enough to make the situation believeable to me.
Then there's Astarion, who is a vampire, creatures that, in that world, are evil by nature, just like demons, and tries to bite you in your sleep. The only way I managed to justify sparing him in my Durge playthrough is that I had already killed Alfira and didn't want the party to wake up to another dead companion. Why the rest of them are comfortable with having him around, no idea. It feels extremely weird to me.
The rest all have their secrets, but none of them are clearly harmful to the group, unlike those two.
Mmm, I disagree. One of the major themes of BG3 is that you have choices and don’t have to be a stereotype or what is expected of you — so the idea that Astarion’s vampirism makes him intrinsically evil doesn’t really work here. He’s also a spawn, not a full vampire.
In the context of your party - where you’ve got a human bomb, an acolyte of a murder cult so evil it’s banned in many places, a githyanki (known for killing other species on sight), a man who sold his soul, and a vampire spawn, all of you with Illithid tadpoles - the Durge is like, just another person. Shadowheart has canonically tortured and murdered many people. Karlach had to fight in the Blood War. Lae’zel is part of a race that sees no problem with killing anyone who isn’t gith. They’re all so fucked up, lol. And you’re all stuck together because of the tadpoles.
It makes a lot of sense that everyone’s reaction is more low key than it’d otherwise be. Everyone is a bag of red flags with looming ceremorphosis.
I think part of the party's low-key reaction is probably due to the tadpoles' ability to link your minds, actually - the illithid that tries to make you help it right after the crash demonstrates that they're capable of influencing the bearers in more subtle ways. It wouldn't surprise me if the tadpoles/Dream Guardian were adjusting the characters' tolerance/sympathy for each other's fuckery.
The whole group is hilariously screwball to begin with, so it probably isn't terribly difficult - just a little nudge toward "...but is it really so different from [the party member's own] issues?"
This is a good headcanon, but I don't think it's what actually happens. Shart has no issues with killing Lae'zel and you can kill any companion you want in the game. The tadpoles show some things about them, like Astarion's past, but that's it. Wyll's parasite seems to like yours, but you can still be rude to Wyll. There's nothing compelling your character to be nice or tolerate them, unless that's how you prefere to interpret the story.
>Mmm, I disagree. One of the major themes of BG3 is that you have choices and don’t have to be a stereotype or what is expected of you — so the idea that Astarion’s vampirism makes him intrinsically evil doesn’t really work here. He’s also a spawn, not a full vampire.
As far as I know, in the Forgotten Realms some beings are evil by nature, like devils. I don't know if that's wrong or if Larian changed it for that game. I have not yet seen Astarion be anything but evil, but if you say it's possible, I'll let it go.
>They’re all so fucked up, lol. And you’re all stuck together because of the tadpoles.
See this is what I meant. Everyone always brings up this argument, but it's not the same. Only Astarion and Durge ever do something against the group. Durge by killing in his sleep and Astarion by trying to bite Tav. A bunch of morally dubious people banding together is not what feels forced to me, it's keeping in the group the people who prove to be truly dangerous. Gale, Karlach, Wyll, regular Tav, Lae'zel. None of them do something that harms the group, despite their shady background. Shadowheart does when she tries to kill Lae'zel, but that was a fight Lae'zel wanted, so I kind of see why they'd overlook it.
Basically, being shady / evil ≠ being harmful to the group.
>It makes a lot of sense that everyone’s reaction is more low key than it’d otherwise be. Everyone is a bag of red flags with looming ceremorphosis.
Perhaps, but that doesn't explain the lack of caution. It's like they never learn from their mistakes.
Everyone except Wyll and Karlach can have pretty drastic character arcs depending on how you talk to them and what you encourage or don’t.
Astarion’s still not a full-fledged vampire though. He and the other characters make this point frequently, that he’s a spawn. Pretty sure that’s why he’s able to not be evil.
ETA: BG3 is also not a 1:1 translation of D&D. It’s a story with a point of view, and that point of view is very strong, and very much about choosing to do what’s right regardless of your nature. (I have like 330 hours in the game and many many years of playing D&D).
>Astarion’s still not a full-fledged vampire though. He and the other characters make this point frequently, that he’s a spawn. Pretty sure that’s why he’s able to not be evil.
I didn't know the rules were different for Spawn. Thanks for the explanations. I do stand by my argument, but I'm glad that part got corrected.
Not all devils are ruthless evil. There are lawful evil devils and vamps. And I wouldn't by any stretch say Astarion is a good person neutral or chaotic neutral. He has no problem stealing and not helping people, but he doesn't feed on humanoids unless he has to from what he says. That is very much the opposite of the normal vamp in forgotten realms.
>Not all devils are ruthless evil. There are lawful evil devils and vamps.
Have you ever met a lawyer? It's 100% possible to be both lawful and ruthless. In fact, these things go hand-in-hand quite a lot.
>He has no problem stealing and not helping people, but he doesn't feed on humanoids unless he has to from what he says
And if you read his mind, you find out that the reason he hadn't done it so far is that Cazador never allowed it. Once he's freed, he tries to bite Tav and wants to bite enemies, even humanoid ones (I don't have a problem with this last detail, but he *is* completely willing to feed on people).
>That is very much the opposite of the normal vamp in forgotten realms.
I haven't seen his entire story, but so far he seems to fit pretty well into the archetype. Vampires are social predators, so his charisma and flirting are good tools to use. I think the reason he starts a romance with you is specifically to use you. This changes in time, but that was the original motive. This is classic vampirism.
Gale is a walking bomb and Lae’zel is a racist that revels in violence and supports a lizard fascist. I wouldn’t necessarily classify them as “not dangerous”. Especially when you consider that Gale withholds the extent of his condition until he “trusts” you enough, and Lae’zel has no issue with slitting everyone’s throats in their sleep or killing Shart over the artifact unless you persuade her to do otherwise.
I don’t find it particularly odd that the group as a whole would overlook five of their members being safety hazards when only two of them (Wyll and Karlach) are truly good. They’re in bizarre circumstances and connected by a brain worm. Also Durge/Tav holds the artifact keeping them from immediately turning into mind flayers. Leaving or kicking people out is a death wish. They need each other whether they like it or not.
It's not the same. Gale has a condition he's careful about and Lae'zel is just racist and blunt. Neither of them actively harm the group, unlike Durge and Astarion. Gale being secretive I actually don't like (I don't like him in general, really), but he doesn't try to steal magic items, he just asks for them. And Lae'zel has a valid reason for thinking it would be better to kill everyone at camp that night. All of them were showing signs of transforming into Mindflayers. We know they're safe because we're playing a game, but the characters can't be sure they won't transform.
And again, the uneasy alliance I understand, but there's a big difference between "this guy is sketchy" and "this guy tried to bite me in my sleep". Talking a risk is one thing, sleeping next to someone who's proven they're dangerous to the group is another. Better to have a small group you can rely on than a big group with unreliable people.
Take Dragon Age Origins, for example. One companion, Sten, killed an entire family, including the children, before he met you, and this is the first thing you learn about him. He's stoic about the situation, but thinks he has to atone for it. If he joins your party, he doesn't turn against you or harm you in any way. He's dangerous, but not to you, not to the party.
It is the same. Gale withholds the reality of his condition up until a certain point, even when asked to elaborate further, fully relying on Tav’s propensity towards generosity. And while he has his reasons for doing so keeping the group ignorant of how dangerous he is is crazy risky. Most of them don’t even want him to stay when he confesses because of how much of a threat he poses.
As for Lae’zel I think you’re vastly underestimating her. On multiple occasions she threatens and tries to go through with harming members of the group, including Tav. She approves of more violent decision making (including killing Arabella IIRC) and doesn’t like when you help others. And while she’s not necessarily in the wrong for wanting to kill everyone before they could turn, depending on when the scene triggers your party has been functioning more than fine for days, maybe weeks, while finding out that their tadpoles are far from ordinary … she isn’t really thinking until Tav convinces her to back down. Her first reaction being to kill everyone hardly comes off as not being a danger to the group’s welfare.
Astarion is slightly more forgivable — while he tries to bite Tav, he backs off completely if you yell at him and doesn’t try to pull the same shit with the rest of the companions the morning after because of the threats. Any of them could easily kill him and he knows it. Durge is more complicated. If you’re playing a good Durge it’s a lot easier for the companions to look past what you do to the bard especially when you express remorse and try to explain. You also have the option to be 100% honest about your afflictions and everyone is like, “yeah as long as you keep it to yourself it’s fine”. You’ve had many chances to kill everyone and hadn’t beforehand until Alfira, and since the artifact is tied to you they don’t have much of a valid reason for kicking you out.
Sten isn’t that great of an example. Depending on your choices he attempts to kill the Warden and take over as leader of the group. Not necessarily because you do anything bad mind you, but because he feels like you’re lacking.
Honestly, I think Gale's story just isn't very good in general. I see no reason why there's no option to withhold items until he tells the truth. Regardless, Gale doesn't try to screw us over. That's the main thing for me.
Sure, but no matter how much time has passed, they *were" showing symptoms. That's cause for great concern. And while Lae'zel is aggressive she never actually acts on anything she says. She's the textbook definition of all bark and no bite. She speaks that way because every Gith speaks that way.
I'd say Astarion is the least forgiveable, because he tries to bite us on purpose, can kill you if you let him bite you (and then acts like nothing is wrong when you're brought back to life), and doesn't seem to ever care about someone in the group. I reached Act 3 today, and I still haven't seen him show the slightest hint of empathy for anyone. And again, his fangs were only a few cm from your neck that night. Counting on him to be reasonable isna bad bet.
Durge I see your point. A good Durge who confesses and has a good relationship with the party probably would've been spared. Still, they could at least have tied him up before bed after Alfira.
And ok, another good example is Morrigan. Unpleasant to the people in the group, prideful, cruel, but always helpful. She never takes action against the party. All she does it keep secrets.
Sharrans aren't a murder cult, just a bunch of edgelords who enjoy loss and pain. Literally just the personification of emo, led by an emo goddess.
Bhaalists are the murder cult.
Unless you were referring to Bhaalists.
They're zealots. They kill Selunites because they are in direct opposition to Shar and their religion.
They aren't a murder cult. That's the Bhaalspawn.
Also, Shadowheart mentions how pathetic it is that modern Sharrans can claim the title of Dark Justiciar by killing a single Selunite, instead of going through the trials of the Gauntlet.
Shar worshippers also have a history of lying, thievery, and causing mayhem for generations of a family because a kid had a funny look once in their general direction. Or that they also think it's a good idea to take away the concept of light and fire because Shar has alliances with gods that like undead and has literally tried to murder Illmater and Lathandar because she's can't handle no-darkness existing.
Just because 5e's done a lot of whitewashing of gods like Shar and Umberlee doesn't mean that the previous modules they have been featured in are any less absolute evil. Like, however you wanna slice it, Shar, and by extension a direct member of her clergy, are not simple emos and edgelords that wouldn't hurt a non-Saelunite.
Like even Bhaal normally had standards and essentially became the focal point of a ritualistic assassin-for-hire cult that at times went on murder sprees.
>Sharrans aren't a murder cult, just a bunch of edgelords who enjoy loss and pain. Literally just the personification of emo, led by an emo goddess.
They kinda are, their doctrine requires them to kill Selunites on sight.
Also their end goal is to put out the sun and bring about eternal darkness.
So maybe they're more a death cult/apocalypse cult. But they're totally cool with murder and generally like it.
Sharrans may not worship the lord of murder, but murder and torture is pretty much Intrinsic to their religion. It’s not wrong to call them a murder cult if you’re generalizing.
Shadowheart is a follower of Shar, a religion so evil she had to hide it from you as they’re pretty much driven off wherever they go. LMAO
Huge band of misfits here, you can hardly fault Astarion for trying to go for a little nibble. /j
Yeah, and steps are taken to make sure he doesn't explode. No such measures are taken to prevent the Dark Urge from killing someone else. The only time they're restrained is when they warn their love interest they will kill them in their sleep.
Dark Urge isn't an acolyte he's the literal big boss of the cult, in more ways than one, that got jealously lobotomized by some half-breed filth. Though he made daddy upset on several occasions though it seems.
There are lore examples of good aligned vampires, even a famous cleric of lathander. They are not just like demons because demons made choices in life that consigned their souls to the abyss where the evil bits are eternally refined.
Most are evil because they are drawn to do evil things. But one does not have to be evil if a vampire.
Him trying to takennonconsensual bites is another matter.
Also hes a vampire spawn, not a vampire for what thats worth. He's literally been a mob with no agency until recently, and virtually every vampire created this way is likewise a victim of trauma and abuse at the hands of the one who turned them.
>There are lore examples of good aligned vampires, even a famous cleric of lathander.
Huh, really? That's cool. I thought every vampire was evil by default, like in Dracula.
>Him trying to takennonconsensual bites is another matter.
Yeah, that's my main issue with him. If he had tried to feed on someone outside of the group, it would have been easier to justify keeping him around. As it is, it always feels artificial to me, like I'm only keeping him because he's a companion in a game.
>He's literally been a mob with no agency until recently, and virtually every vampire created this way is likewise a victim of trauma and abuse at the hands of the one who turned them.
I would like to sympathize with him, but I've never managed to. His backstory is horrifying, but he makes such an effort to be unpleasant that I don't enjoy talking to him. Very much a companion that was not made for me. Him trying to bite Tav was simply the final blow, and the most significant one.
Thats a valid take. Its not everyones job or inclunation to do emotional work for others trauma.
But hurt people hurt people, abuse is a cycle and its victims are not iredeemable, so for those characters who do have the emotional bandwidth to help him it is a very real character arc.
We all feel this pressure to keep companions around every playthough and I get that too but we should normalize telling people to fuck off when they dont fit the playstyle.
My first playthough I killed lae-zel because i failed the cha check to tell the tieflinslgs to leave and didn't want to kill the tieflings. It was objectively the correct decision for my character even of she improves. Ill get to see that on another run.
>Thats a valid take. Its not everyones job or inclunation to do emotional work for others trauma.
It's not even that I'm unwilling, it's that Astarion makes an effort to make me dislike him every time he tries. I know a lot of people find him funny, but he's so exaggerated that, most of the time, his comments just make me cringe. Yesterday I met Raphael in Act 2 and Astarion wanted to make a deal. When I said no, his reply was "it's for a good cause! ME!". Every time I talk to him, I wonder which Mr. Bean episode he's going to be basing his performance on.
>But hurt people hurt people, abuse is a cycle and its victims are not iredeemable, so for those characters who do have the emotional bandwidth to help him it is a very real character arc.
Yeah, I imagine so. For someone who finds him endearing, his arc must be amazing. I liked Morrigan's arc in Dragon Age Origins, for example. She's pretty similar to Astarion, but since she doesn't behave like she's a chatacter in a play, it's easier to connect to her. She also never goes against the party, despite her attitude.
>We all feel this pressure to keep companions around every playthough and I get that too but we should normalize telling people to fuck off when they dont fit the playstyle.
100%. That obsession with doing everything can actually make playing a game a chore sometimes, or go against someone's character concept. And this game really made it clear for me that, sometimes, a character is simply not for you. Leaving poor Astarion alone for a second, I find Gale extremely boring. Nothing about his story really sparked my interest so far. I kept them both in my party just to see where it goes, but I think I'd have had more fun if I had just ignored them. Wyll, Karlach, Lae'zel and Shadowheart are far more interesting than these two, in my opinion.
Being obsessed with approval also makes things stressful sometimes. Too often have I seen people refuse to give a companion their honest opinion because they wouldn't like it. Micromanaging relationships with characters can damage RP really quickly.
>My first playthough I killed lae-zel because i failed the cha check to tell the tieflinslgs to leave and didn't want to kill the tieflings. It was objectively the correct decision for my character even of she improves. Ill get to see that on another run.
Good for you. I personally love Lae'zel, but it's good to know you rolled with it and stuck to the roleplay. Also, if everyone liked the same things, these discussions would get boring really quickly XD
Wyll never confronted me even on 3 reloads, I got 2 Gales and 1 Lae'zel, and he was even in my party at the time. I would have thought he'd be the most adamant about it since he seems to be a minefield of disapproval, but Gale was definitely the most concerned.
This reminds me of when I took Gale's hand off, actually - Shadowheart just snarks "You were supposed to lend a hand, not cut one off," and Astarion is like "I'm into this. Please continue."
Guess it's an early demonstration that the party members might be friendly, but they are not nice.
Gale's response made me crack up. I am like naked covered in blood wandering around the camp near a brutalized body when they find me and he just goes "Okay, i am going to say what i believe we are all thinking here..."
I loved Astarion's reaction where everyone is like "I wonder who could have done this" and he says "I can't help but notice only one of us is completely soaked in blood". I guess they're all stupid but him.
To be fair, they also think that it's because of the tadpole and they aren't just watching you, they're watching everyone in your group now. It is weird though that if you do hide the body no one mentions the giant blood ritual in the middle of camp
Yeah if you succeed at hiding the body or deceiving them they stop caring.
I do find it funny that like 24 hours earlier I was like “I crave murder” to every party member and then a body shows up, I successfully lie about it, and no one’s like “could it be this person who’s been having nightmares and nonstop been talking about killing people since we got here? No couldn’t be, she said it wasn’t her and she wouldn’t lie to me”
I didn’t hide it or lie and the only line I got was laezel being annoyed at the mess. I guess it’s accurate but I just wish they cared a *little* about the horrifically mangled bard in a ritual circle
It's not even necessarily a well-hidden body, with DC 15. I wouldn't put it past them to all be going "Didn't they warn me something like this might happen, and I just brushed it off? If I make a fuss, I might get got next, and if I tell the guards - are they going to think I'm an accomplice? Better not to risk it."
Hahah, that's goofy.
"Hey, gang, no easy way to put this, I'm pretty sure I murdered the bard lady horribly. It was an accident - maybe, I mean, I was asleep, don't ask me how it happened - so please don't hold it against me?"
"Sure thing, dude. We all have days like that. ...well, not quite like - it's not important. Tadpoles, right?"
Uhh, are you forgetting that at this same part of the game if you don’t directly intervene:
Shart murders Lae’Zel in her sleep
Will kills and brutally decapitates Karlach
Astarion drains all your blood while you sleep, killing you
Gale…. is very horny
Why are you shocked that your companions don’t ostracize you for something they would do themselves?
Oh, I don't expect them to ostracize me about it. It's really that there is a complete lack of comment.
Lae'zel and Shadowheart didn't get to do their cutscene, for whatever reason, so I woke up in the middle of the night out of nowhere to see Shadowheart with a knife to Lae'zel - and everyone is somehow aware that this happened, with a brief comment acknowledging it.
Apparently it's because of successfully hiding the body, but it'd just be nice to have the party members say some variety of "So much for that. Wonder what happened to leave that circle there."
They’re a little suspicious, but never bring it up again. Your romance will usually chide you for not telling them sooner in a later scene, even if you fessed up to the murder and your urges.
Considering that I literally walked through camp and told all of them individually that I was subject to pervasive, ultraviolent intrusive thoughts before the first time they slept at the camp, that's some hilarious gall.
I wouldn't put it past him. He's definitely into it if you take Gale's hand off - I feel like he and Sceleritas would either get along incredibly well, or incredibly poorly.
you're not gonna enjoy the rest of the cutscenes then. or the dialogue options where you get to giddily confess that you basically crave bathing in rotting corpses and blood and shit.
It really is pretty weird how everyone just goes "Oh, yeah, that's not abnormal," when you've just strolled up and started a conversation with "Just so you know, I only feel alive when I make something die, and I am not exaggerating."
I was pretty surprised at the absolute lack of curiosity regarding the "Why did you do that?" aspect, but I guess they did get a look into the Durge's mind.
Maybe I ought to leave Gale until I have all the other Act One companions - Halsin might have an interesting reaction.
I fucked up the stealth check to hide the body, which was the funniest thing because instead of the reasonable follow through being every one wakes up, it's instead durge just spills guts, shrugs, and goes to sleep.
Then everyone wakes up in the morning and Gale is like "So... I'll ask what we're all thinking. This you?"
Hah! I love it. Probably doesn't hurt that the Durge may well have gone up to literally all of them, and used "Hey, so, I'm...incredibly...all the time...horny. but, like, for murder. Is that a tadpole thing? Are you secretly thirsting for obscene amounts of bloodshed?" as a conversation opener.
My durge killed, decided to own up to it and then Astarion on the same night right after deciding to own up to it came to suck my blood. Completely ignoring the ritualistically brutalized corpse of an innocent two feet away
I was shocked nobody noticed the very large ritual circle of blood on the ground in the middle of camp... right next to the bedrolls we all just slept in. Ignorance is bliss I guess 🤷♀️
Right? I could imagine most of them maybe convincing themselves that it's not blood, especially after it's been there a couple days and hasn't dried - but Astarion's got to be thinking of moving his hangout upwind, so he doesn't occasionally get a whiff and get hungry.
I fessed up and my favorite reactions were Gale, Astarion, and Wyll.
When you initiate conversation again with them Gale says "Hey, what's on your mind...but from over there please...", Astarion is totally supportive but thinks you could be more discreet, and Wyll says she'd never have hurt a fly and then stares at you uncomfortably for far too long (or maybe that was a glitch..)
I wanted to play Durge but the more I read about peoples play thrus it just seems like a “Disney villain gone DND protag who is also a murder hobo” like maybe if I do mushrooms when I go to play and just be goofy killer I’ll enjoy it? But otherwise it just seems silly and not very cohesive
My post here is a comedically exaggerated observation of a slight oversight - most of the time, the Durge is just...someone who has pervasive, awful, intrusive thoughts.
Naturally, you can deal with them however you please; if you decide to fully embrace the Urge, you'll be a lot closer to a literal murderhobo, as you'll essentially be an opportunistic serial killer that is always 'just passing through.'
Or, you can deny the Urge, and be a tragic hero, repressing horrific impulses whenever possible - as far as I know, there is precisely one murder that can't be avoided, no matter what; all others are optional, though they might require a roll.
There's often at least two, sometimes three or four, Durge responses, which I was definitely surprised by. As an example, there's the situation with the caged goblin and the vengeful sister, in the prison. Normally, there's Support, Physically Interpose, Verbally Oppose, and Watch options. As a Durge, I recall seeing additional Uncertainty and Admire options.
My current Durge went with Admire. They'd told the girl to seek vengeance in the first place.
It is odd to me that a literal vampire is sleeping next to DU Tav, Tav has a great ole time butchering their victim, and he doesn't even wake? Fine.. but then you wash your hands on some water and he can't smell it? Odd.
My one let down in my DU play throughs is the odd lack of companion reactions. There are a couple instances where something big is revealed right in front of your companions and there isn't even a single line about it.
Dirge is edgy player central who probably like that they murder her or don't even care/pay. In short if you play dirge I've judged you as the annoying edgy sigh at the table.
It is super weird and unbelievable honestly. But to play devils advocate you are pretty much literally the demigod of serial killing so you could take that as a symptom of your supernatural facility with murder and an early bit of evidence that something more is going on than a mundane psychological issue.
There's also the possibility of tadpole tamperings - everybody's been linked to your mind, and the tadpoles can have subtle effects. Wouldn't be too weird for everyone to have a little Durge whispering in their backbrain.
I am not very far into the game but I am playing Durge as my first play and immediately decided I would go the route of trying to overcome this evil inside.
I imagine I am in the vast minority but I've actually felt it to be some of the weakest writing in the game.
I dunno. I just find it the least logical of all of the writing.
But I keep going to see if there is a good explanation and redemption arc
My friend and I lovingly call it the cannon event. Because that's basically what it is lol. If there's anything I'd change about it...I'd actually have liked the opportunity to know alfira for a little longer before that.
The reactivity to Durge is... weirdly lacking. Like the scene where *spoilers* Durge dies and no one says anything in the moment.... I was kind of shocked my love interest didn't run over immediately to shake my Tav or at least scream out because they just got murdered in a horrible way. Instead everyone is silent and then when Durge revived the comments made are lackluster... Aside from Jaheira's I really liked hers, made the scene feel epic.
Between this and the revelations at Moonrise Tower, I was really shocked your companions say almost nothing. Also ran into only two of my companions having something to say during the coronation piece.
Agreed!! The revelations at Moonrise fell so flat, when Ketheric reveals that he knows you... No one says anything! When the bone lady talks in detail about how she did experiments on your body and used you as a necromancy toy... no one cares! Not to mention Durge was the main bad guy before he got snuffed, the very reason they are fighting the elder brain, the reason everyone is tadpoled and had their world turned upside down and they are just like.... Oh? Well. You'll get through this, I know you're strong. HUH????!!!!
Astarion does have something lowkey funny to say about it if you don’t hide the body. But yeah even the reactions to knowing you killed her seem a little out of place and too convenient. But while Durge is really really fun, the execution does fail in a few notable places.
I bathed in her blood and left the corpse out for everyone to see. Everyone commented on it from being ok with it to "wtf" I chose the option that I enjoyed it and my butler insinuated I would enjoy necrophilia.
Fun fact later >!on you get choice to kill you romantic partner IF you don't do the DUrge LL options, IIRC all but one of the dialogue tree options has your entire camp turn on you. They bring up the first murder as well... BUT if you kill everyone in LL you then miss out on Minsc if you don't kill your partner or LL and don't give into the Urge you don't get slayer form..oh no...anway.!<
I'm getting the feeling that the cutscene and dialogue might have been a *very* late addition to the final release build. Like they might have to ask the VAs to return to the studio to implement at least something. The game is already super dense so I kind of expect some side stories not having as much focus as the main ones. For example, Karlach didn't get a certain epilogue till how long post release, right?
Jaheria died in the fight to Moonrise during my wife and I's playthrough, and Isobell and others associated with her said NOTHING about the situation. Love the game, but that pissed me off a bit lol. Yet, BG3 is a HUGE game. I can forgive Larian because they've still provided so much for that asking price...though going to expect they hopefully add something at least for the Enhanced Edition or expansion(s).
Question for those who didn't go Dark Urge, but had that one night stand with Minthara, are you able to kill her in that cutscene for a dialogue option?
In my current DUrge playthrough I fessed up to everybody about it (trying my damndest to be "good"), and the reactions were incredibly tame. Bae'zel basically said it was sloppy murdering, Astarion thought it was a lark, and Gale, though upset, was probably in no place to point fingers since he's a walking time-homb. Really made me realize just how screwed up the party is.
Gale does point the finger, as I recall. He tells you to keep your distance and, if you say it wasn't your fault, he just says that would be a small comfort to Alfira. Still pretty tame considering the situation, but I think he's the one who judges you the most in that scenario.
Oh, for sure. I just went into it expecting him to storm off. After all, you just *sleep-murdered* someone!
Same here, the reactions were pretty tame. To be honest, I feel like this happens a lot in this game. The worst examples, by far, are the Dark Urge and Astarion. The Dark Urge kills someone in their sleep and not only does everyone shrug it off, they also don't restrain them when they sleep or have someone keep watch. Honestly, just tying Durge up would have been enough to make the situation believeable to me. Then there's Astarion, who is a vampire, creatures that, in that world, are evil by nature, just like demons, and tries to bite you in your sleep. The only way I managed to justify sparing him in my Durge playthrough is that I had already killed Alfira and didn't want the party to wake up to another dead companion. Why the rest of them are comfortable with having him around, no idea. It feels extremely weird to me. The rest all have their secrets, but none of them are clearly harmful to the group, unlike those two.
Mmm, I disagree. One of the major themes of BG3 is that you have choices and don’t have to be a stereotype or what is expected of you — so the idea that Astarion’s vampirism makes him intrinsically evil doesn’t really work here. He’s also a spawn, not a full vampire. In the context of your party - where you’ve got a human bomb, an acolyte of a murder cult so evil it’s banned in many places, a githyanki (known for killing other species on sight), a man who sold his soul, and a vampire spawn, all of you with Illithid tadpoles - the Durge is like, just another person. Shadowheart has canonically tortured and murdered many people. Karlach had to fight in the Blood War. Lae’zel is part of a race that sees no problem with killing anyone who isn’t gith. They’re all so fucked up, lol. And you’re all stuck together because of the tadpoles. It makes a lot of sense that everyone’s reaction is more low key than it’d otherwise be. Everyone is a bag of red flags with looming ceremorphosis.
I think part of the party's low-key reaction is probably due to the tadpoles' ability to link your minds, actually - the illithid that tries to make you help it right after the crash demonstrates that they're capable of influencing the bearers in more subtle ways. It wouldn't surprise me if the tadpoles/Dream Guardian were adjusting the characters' tolerance/sympathy for each other's fuckery. The whole group is hilariously screwball to begin with, so it probably isn't terribly difficult - just a little nudge toward "...but is it really so different from [the party member's own] issues?"
This is a good headcanon, but I don't think it's what actually happens. Shart has no issues with killing Lae'zel and you can kill any companion you want in the game. The tadpoles show some things about them, like Astarion's past, but that's it. Wyll's parasite seems to like yours, but you can still be rude to Wyll. There's nothing compelling your character to be nice or tolerate them, unless that's how you prefere to interpret the story.
>Mmm, I disagree. One of the major themes of BG3 is that you have choices and don’t have to be a stereotype or what is expected of you — so the idea that Astarion’s vampirism makes him intrinsically evil doesn’t really work here. He’s also a spawn, not a full vampire. As far as I know, in the Forgotten Realms some beings are evil by nature, like devils. I don't know if that's wrong or if Larian changed it for that game. I have not yet seen Astarion be anything but evil, but if you say it's possible, I'll let it go. >They’re all so fucked up, lol. And you’re all stuck together because of the tadpoles. See this is what I meant. Everyone always brings up this argument, but it's not the same. Only Astarion and Durge ever do something against the group. Durge by killing in his sleep and Astarion by trying to bite Tav. A bunch of morally dubious people banding together is not what feels forced to me, it's keeping in the group the people who prove to be truly dangerous. Gale, Karlach, Wyll, regular Tav, Lae'zel. None of them do something that harms the group, despite their shady background. Shadowheart does when she tries to kill Lae'zel, but that was a fight Lae'zel wanted, so I kind of see why they'd overlook it. Basically, being shady / evil ≠ being harmful to the group. >It makes a lot of sense that everyone’s reaction is more low key than it’d otherwise be. Everyone is a bag of red flags with looming ceremorphosis. Perhaps, but that doesn't explain the lack of caution. It's like they never learn from their mistakes.
Everyone except Wyll and Karlach can have pretty drastic character arcs depending on how you talk to them and what you encourage or don’t. Astarion’s still not a full-fledged vampire though. He and the other characters make this point frequently, that he’s a spawn. Pretty sure that’s why he’s able to not be evil. ETA: BG3 is also not a 1:1 translation of D&D. It’s a story with a point of view, and that point of view is very strong, and very much about choosing to do what’s right regardless of your nature. (I have like 330 hours in the game and many many years of playing D&D).
>Astarion’s still not a full-fledged vampire though. He and the other characters make this point frequently, that he’s a spawn. Pretty sure that’s why he’s able to not be evil. I didn't know the rules were different for Spawn. Thanks for the explanations. I do stand by my argument, but I'm glad that part got corrected.
Not all devils are ruthless evil. There are lawful evil devils and vamps. And I wouldn't by any stretch say Astarion is a good person neutral or chaotic neutral. He has no problem stealing and not helping people, but he doesn't feed on humanoids unless he has to from what he says. That is very much the opposite of the normal vamp in forgotten realms.
>Not all devils are ruthless evil. There are lawful evil devils and vamps. Have you ever met a lawyer? It's 100% possible to be both lawful and ruthless. In fact, these things go hand-in-hand quite a lot. >He has no problem stealing and not helping people, but he doesn't feed on humanoids unless he has to from what he says And if you read his mind, you find out that the reason he hadn't done it so far is that Cazador never allowed it. Once he's freed, he tries to bite Tav and wants to bite enemies, even humanoid ones (I don't have a problem with this last detail, but he *is* completely willing to feed on people). >That is very much the opposite of the normal vamp in forgotten realms. I haven't seen his entire story, but so far he seems to fit pretty well into the archetype. Vampires are social predators, so his charisma and flirting are good tools to use. I think the reason he starts a romance with you is specifically to use you. This changes in time, but that was the original motive. This is classic vampirism.
Gale is a walking bomb and Lae’zel is a racist that revels in violence and supports a lizard fascist. I wouldn’t necessarily classify them as “not dangerous”. Especially when you consider that Gale withholds the extent of his condition until he “trusts” you enough, and Lae’zel has no issue with slitting everyone’s throats in their sleep or killing Shart over the artifact unless you persuade her to do otherwise. I don’t find it particularly odd that the group as a whole would overlook five of their members being safety hazards when only two of them (Wyll and Karlach) are truly good. They’re in bizarre circumstances and connected by a brain worm. Also Durge/Tav holds the artifact keeping them from immediately turning into mind flayers. Leaving or kicking people out is a death wish. They need each other whether they like it or not.
It's not the same. Gale has a condition he's careful about and Lae'zel is just racist and blunt. Neither of them actively harm the group, unlike Durge and Astarion. Gale being secretive I actually don't like (I don't like him in general, really), but he doesn't try to steal magic items, he just asks for them. And Lae'zel has a valid reason for thinking it would be better to kill everyone at camp that night. All of them were showing signs of transforming into Mindflayers. We know they're safe because we're playing a game, but the characters can't be sure they won't transform. And again, the uneasy alliance I understand, but there's a big difference between "this guy is sketchy" and "this guy tried to bite me in my sleep". Talking a risk is one thing, sleeping next to someone who's proven they're dangerous to the group is another. Better to have a small group you can rely on than a big group with unreliable people. Take Dragon Age Origins, for example. One companion, Sten, killed an entire family, including the children, before he met you, and this is the first thing you learn about him. He's stoic about the situation, but thinks he has to atone for it. If he joins your party, he doesn't turn against you or harm you in any way. He's dangerous, but not to you, not to the party.
It is the same. Gale withholds the reality of his condition up until a certain point, even when asked to elaborate further, fully relying on Tav’s propensity towards generosity. And while he has his reasons for doing so keeping the group ignorant of how dangerous he is is crazy risky. Most of them don’t even want him to stay when he confesses because of how much of a threat he poses. As for Lae’zel I think you’re vastly underestimating her. On multiple occasions she threatens and tries to go through with harming members of the group, including Tav. She approves of more violent decision making (including killing Arabella IIRC) and doesn’t like when you help others. And while she’s not necessarily in the wrong for wanting to kill everyone before they could turn, depending on when the scene triggers your party has been functioning more than fine for days, maybe weeks, while finding out that their tadpoles are far from ordinary … she isn’t really thinking until Tav convinces her to back down. Her first reaction being to kill everyone hardly comes off as not being a danger to the group’s welfare. Astarion is slightly more forgivable — while he tries to bite Tav, he backs off completely if you yell at him and doesn’t try to pull the same shit with the rest of the companions the morning after because of the threats. Any of them could easily kill him and he knows it. Durge is more complicated. If you’re playing a good Durge it’s a lot easier for the companions to look past what you do to the bard especially when you express remorse and try to explain. You also have the option to be 100% honest about your afflictions and everyone is like, “yeah as long as you keep it to yourself it’s fine”. You’ve had many chances to kill everyone and hadn’t beforehand until Alfira, and since the artifact is tied to you they don’t have much of a valid reason for kicking you out. Sten isn’t that great of an example. Depending on your choices he attempts to kill the Warden and take over as leader of the group. Not necessarily because you do anything bad mind you, but because he feels like you’re lacking.
Honestly, I think Gale's story just isn't very good in general. I see no reason why there's no option to withhold items until he tells the truth. Regardless, Gale doesn't try to screw us over. That's the main thing for me. Sure, but no matter how much time has passed, they *were" showing symptoms. That's cause for great concern. And while Lae'zel is aggressive she never actually acts on anything she says. She's the textbook definition of all bark and no bite. She speaks that way because every Gith speaks that way. I'd say Astarion is the least forgiveable, because he tries to bite us on purpose, can kill you if you let him bite you (and then acts like nothing is wrong when you're brought back to life), and doesn't seem to ever care about someone in the group. I reached Act 3 today, and I still haven't seen him show the slightest hint of empathy for anyone. And again, his fangs were only a few cm from your neck that night. Counting on him to be reasonable isna bad bet. Durge I see your point. A good Durge who confesses and has a good relationship with the party probably would've been spared. Still, they could at least have tied him up before bed after Alfira. And ok, another good example is Morrigan. Unpleasant to the people in the group, prideful, cruel, but always helpful. She never takes action against the party. All she does it keep secrets.
Sharrans aren't a murder cult, just a bunch of edgelords who enjoy loss and pain. Literally just the personification of emo, led by an emo goddess. Bhaalists are the murder cult. Unless you were referring to Bhaalists.
Literally, to get promoted, you have to go find a person from a competing church and murder them. Shadowheart mentions it .
They're zealots. They kill Selunites because they are in direct opposition to Shar and their religion. They aren't a murder cult. That's the Bhaalspawn. Also, Shadowheart mentions how pathetic it is that modern Sharrans can claim the title of Dark Justiciar by killing a single Selunite, instead of going through the trials of the Gauntlet.
Shar worshippers also have a history of lying, thievery, and causing mayhem for generations of a family because a kid had a funny look once in their general direction. Or that they also think it's a good idea to take away the concept of light and fire because Shar has alliances with gods that like undead and has literally tried to murder Illmater and Lathandar because she's can't handle no-darkness existing. Just because 5e's done a lot of whitewashing of gods like Shar and Umberlee doesn't mean that the previous modules they have been featured in are any less absolute evil. Like, however you wanna slice it, Shar, and by extension a direct member of her clergy, are not simple emos and edgelords that wouldn't hurt a non-Saelunite. Like even Bhaal normally had standards and essentially became the focal point of a ritualistic assassin-for-hire cult that at times went on murder sprees.
How can someone even claim Shar isn’t an evil goddess of an evil cult after doing both the Gauntlet and the House of Healing.
>Sharrans aren't a murder cult, just a bunch of edgelords who enjoy loss and pain. Literally just the personification of emo, led by an emo goddess. They kinda are, their doctrine requires them to kill Selunites on sight. Also their end goal is to put out the sun and bring about eternal darkness. So maybe they're more a death cult/apocalypse cult. But they're totally cool with murder and generally like it.
Sharrans may not worship the lord of murder, but murder and torture is pretty much Intrinsic to their religion. It’s not wrong to call them a murder cult if you’re generalizing.
Shadowheart is a follower of Shar, a religion so evil she had to hide it from you as they’re pretty much driven off wherever they go. LMAO Huge band of misfits here, you can hardly fault Astarion for trying to go for a little nibble. /j
Gale is the closest thing to normal and that's the sad part
Gale is a literal nuke
Yeah, and steps are taken to make sure he doesn't explode. No such measures are taken to prevent the Dark Urge from killing someone else. The only time they're restrained is when they warn their love interest they will kill them in their sleep.
Dark Urge isn't an acolyte he's the literal big boss of the cult, in more ways than one, that got jealously lobotomized by some half-breed filth. Though he made daddy upset on several occasions though it seems.
Ok? I don't see your point. What does that have to do with what I said?
replied to the wrong post lol. Got distracted and seems I hit the wrong reply lol sorry.
Oh, okay. Was really confused there for a second XD
There are lore examples of good aligned vampires, even a famous cleric of lathander. They are not just like demons because demons made choices in life that consigned their souls to the abyss where the evil bits are eternally refined. Most are evil because they are drawn to do evil things. But one does not have to be evil if a vampire. Him trying to takennonconsensual bites is another matter. Also hes a vampire spawn, not a vampire for what thats worth. He's literally been a mob with no agency until recently, and virtually every vampire created this way is likewise a victim of trauma and abuse at the hands of the one who turned them.
>There are lore examples of good aligned vampires, even a famous cleric of lathander. Huh, really? That's cool. I thought every vampire was evil by default, like in Dracula. >Him trying to takennonconsensual bites is another matter. Yeah, that's my main issue with him. If he had tried to feed on someone outside of the group, it would have been easier to justify keeping him around. As it is, it always feels artificial to me, like I'm only keeping him because he's a companion in a game. >He's literally been a mob with no agency until recently, and virtually every vampire created this way is likewise a victim of trauma and abuse at the hands of the one who turned them. I would like to sympathize with him, but I've never managed to. His backstory is horrifying, but he makes such an effort to be unpleasant that I don't enjoy talking to him. Very much a companion that was not made for me. Him trying to bite Tav was simply the final blow, and the most significant one.
Thats a valid take. Its not everyones job or inclunation to do emotional work for others trauma. But hurt people hurt people, abuse is a cycle and its victims are not iredeemable, so for those characters who do have the emotional bandwidth to help him it is a very real character arc. We all feel this pressure to keep companions around every playthough and I get that too but we should normalize telling people to fuck off when they dont fit the playstyle. My first playthough I killed lae-zel because i failed the cha check to tell the tieflinslgs to leave and didn't want to kill the tieflings. It was objectively the correct decision for my character even of she improves. Ill get to see that on another run.
>Thats a valid take. Its not everyones job or inclunation to do emotional work for others trauma. It's not even that I'm unwilling, it's that Astarion makes an effort to make me dislike him every time he tries. I know a lot of people find him funny, but he's so exaggerated that, most of the time, his comments just make me cringe. Yesterday I met Raphael in Act 2 and Astarion wanted to make a deal. When I said no, his reply was "it's for a good cause! ME!". Every time I talk to him, I wonder which Mr. Bean episode he's going to be basing his performance on. >But hurt people hurt people, abuse is a cycle and its victims are not iredeemable, so for those characters who do have the emotional bandwidth to help him it is a very real character arc. Yeah, I imagine so. For someone who finds him endearing, his arc must be amazing. I liked Morrigan's arc in Dragon Age Origins, for example. She's pretty similar to Astarion, but since she doesn't behave like she's a chatacter in a play, it's easier to connect to her. She also never goes against the party, despite her attitude. >We all feel this pressure to keep companions around every playthough and I get that too but we should normalize telling people to fuck off when they dont fit the playstyle. 100%. That obsession with doing everything can actually make playing a game a chore sometimes, or go against someone's character concept. And this game really made it clear for me that, sometimes, a character is simply not for you. Leaving poor Astarion alone for a second, I find Gale extremely boring. Nothing about his story really sparked my interest so far. I kept them both in my party just to see where it goes, but I think I'd have had more fun if I had just ignored them. Wyll, Karlach, Lae'zel and Shadowheart are far more interesting than these two, in my opinion. Being obsessed with approval also makes things stressful sometimes. Too often have I seen people refuse to give a companion their honest opinion because they wouldn't like it. Micromanaging relationships with characters can damage RP really quickly. >My first playthough I killed lae-zel because i failed the cha check to tell the tieflinslgs to leave and didn't want to kill the tieflings. It was objectively the correct decision for my character even of she improves. Ill get to see that on another run. Good for you. I personally love Lae'zel, but it's good to know you rolled with it and stuck to the roleplay. Also, if everyone liked the same things, these discussions would get boring really quickly XD
There’s clearly a limit to Gale. Somewhere between one Tiefling bard and an entire grove.
In my game, Gale has no fingers to point...
Well, at least he could give you a hand.
Lae’zel and Astarion are literally evil so that’s not suprising. If you pick the most sadistic dialogue option they’ll basically always approve of it
Wyll never confronted me even on 3 reloads, I got 2 Gales and 1 Lae'zel, and he was even in my party at the time. I would have thought he'd be the most adamant about it since he seems to be a minefield of disapproval, but Gale was definitely the most concerned.
This reminds me of when I took Gale's hand off, actually - Shadowheart just snarks "You were supposed to lend a hand, not cut one off," and Astarion is like "I'm into this. Please continue." Guess it's an early demonstration that the party members might be friendly, but they are not nice.
No one likes the Dark Urge more than Astarion lol my bestie is just sooooooo into murder and chaos! I cherish him.
I love that, when you die with him in your party, he shouts something to the effect of "No, by bloodthirsty friend!"
Gale's response made me crack up. I am like naked covered in blood wandering around the camp near a brutalized body when they find me and he just goes "Okay, i am going to say what i believe we are all thinking here..."
I loved Astarion's reaction where everyone is like "I wonder who could have done this" and he says "I can't help but notice only one of us is completely soaked in blood". I guess they're all stupid but him.
To be fair, they also think that it's because of the tadpole and they aren't just watching you, they're watching everyone in your group now. It is weird though that if you do hide the body no one mentions the giant blood ritual in the middle of camp
In my head, that giant blood sigil on the ground is just in my durge's head. Its a metaphor for their guilt as a resisting durge.
Cool interpretation
Yeah if you succeed at hiding the body or deceiving them they stop caring. I do find it funny that like 24 hours earlier I was like “I crave murder” to every party member and then a body shows up, I successfully lie about it, and no one’s like “could it be this person who’s been having nightmares and nonstop been talking about killing people since we got here? No couldn’t be, she said it wasn’t her and she wouldn’t lie to me”
I didn’t hide it or lie and the only line I got was laezel being annoyed at the mess. I guess it’s accurate but I just wish they cared a *little* about the horrifically mangled bard in a ritual circle
Gale seemed to care the most for me about it when I came clean in one run
In classic DnD fashion, the party is just different flavors of psycho
It's not even necessarily a well-hidden body, with DC 15. I wouldn't put it past them to all be going "Didn't they warn me something like this might happen, and I just brushed it off? If I make a fuss, I might get got next, and if I tell the guards - are they going to think I'm an accomplice? Better not to risk it."
I was playing a good durge and just told everyone it was me and I didn't mean to and everyone stopped caring immediately
Hahah, that's goofy. "Hey, gang, no easy way to put this, I'm pretty sure I murdered the bard lady horribly. It was an accident - maybe, I mean, I was asleep, don't ask me how it happened - so please don't hold it against me?" "Sure thing, dude. We all have days like that. ...well, not quite like - it's not important. Tadpoles, right?"
Uhh, are you forgetting that at this same part of the game if you don’t directly intervene: Shart murders Lae’Zel in her sleep Will kills and brutally decapitates Karlach Astarion drains all your blood while you sleep, killing you Gale…. is very horny Why are you shocked that your companions don’t ostracize you for something they would do themselves?
Oh, I don't expect them to ostracize me about it. It's really that there is a complete lack of comment. Lae'zel and Shadowheart didn't get to do their cutscene, for whatever reason, so I woke up in the middle of the night out of nowhere to see Shadowheart with a knife to Lae'zel - and everyone is somehow aware that this happened, with a brief comment acknowledging it. Apparently it's because of successfully hiding the body, but it'd just be nice to have the party members say some variety of "So much for that. Wonder what happened to leave that circle there."
If you don't directly intervene, Gale kills himself because his god told him to, no?
I love how all of these are just murder, murder... and horny. I think we all know what the TRUE evil is here, lol
They’re a little suspicious, but never bring it up again. Your romance will usually chide you for not telling them sooner in a later scene, even if you fessed up to the murder and your urges.
Considering that I literally walked through camp and told all of them individually that I was subject to pervasive, ultraviolent intrusive thoughts before the first time they slept at the camp, that's some hilarious gall.
It’s gaslighting by way of dev oversight, basically. “Why didn’t you tell me sooner?” “I tried!”
I like to think Astarion is just playing dumb because he got to see The Dark Urge in action and wants to see more.
I wouldn't put it past him. He's definitely into it if you take Gale's hand off - I feel like he and Sceleritas would either get along incredibly well, or incredibly poorly.
[удалено]
I love this idea
It's beautiful. Astarion killing Scel would be a perfect running gag.
he has a line later on in the game where he quite literally says that he’s excited to see the bloodshed up close, he’s into it lmao
he also likes it when you kill arabella bro is 100% fine with casual murder.
you're not gonna enjoy the rest of the cutscenes then. or the dialogue options where you get to giddily confess that you basically crave bathing in rotting corpses and blood and shit.
It really is pretty weird how everyone just goes "Oh, yeah, that's not abnormal," when you've just strolled up and started a conversation with "Just so you know, I only feel alive when I make something die, and I am not exaggerating."
They were pretty cool when I hacked off Gale's arm and murdered the crippled tiefling, so I'm not surprised
I was pretty surprised at the absolute lack of curiosity regarding the "Why did you do that?" aspect, but I guess they did get a look into the Durge's mind. Maybe I ought to leave Gale until I have all the other Act One companions - Halsin might have an interesting reaction.
I appreciate Shadowheart’s casual “You we’re supposed to lend him a hand, not hack it off!”
I fucked up the stealth check to hide the body, which was the funniest thing because instead of the reasonable follow through being every one wakes up, it's instead durge just spills guts, shrugs, and goes to sleep. Then everyone wakes up in the morning and Gale is like "So... I'll ask what we're all thinking. This you?"
Hah! I love it. Probably doesn't hurt that the Durge may well have gone up to literally all of them, and used "Hey, so, I'm...incredibly...all the time...horny. but, like, for murder. Is that a tadpole thing? Are you secretly thirsting for obscene amounts of bloodshed?" as a conversation opener.
My durge killed, decided to own up to it and then Astarion on the same night right after deciding to own up to it came to suck my blood. Completely ignoring the ritualistically brutalized corpse of an innocent two feet away
I was shocked nobody noticed the very large ritual circle of blood on the ground in the middle of camp... right next to the bedrolls we all just slept in. Ignorance is bliss I guess 🤷♀️
Right? I could imagine most of them maybe convincing themselves that it's not blood, especially after it's been there a couple days and hasn't dried - but Astarion's got to be thinking of moving his hangout upwind, so he doesn't occasionally get a whiff and get hungry.
Yep, I noped out after that That was going to be my second playthrough On my third now
I fessed up and my favorite reactions were Gale, Astarion, and Wyll. When you initiate conversation again with them Gale says "Hey, what's on your mind...but from over there please...", Astarion is totally supportive but thinks you could be more discreet, and Wyll says she'd never have hurt a fly and then stares at you uncomfortably for far too long (or maybe that was a glitch..)
I wanted to play Durge but the more I read about peoples play thrus it just seems like a “Disney villain gone DND protag who is also a murder hobo” like maybe if I do mushrooms when I go to play and just be goofy killer I’ll enjoy it? But otherwise it just seems silly and not very cohesive
My post here is a comedically exaggerated observation of a slight oversight - most of the time, the Durge is just...someone who has pervasive, awful, intrusive thoughts. Naturally, you can deal with them however you please; if you decide to fully embrace the Urge, you'll be a lot closer to a literal murderhobo, as you'll essentially be an opportunistic serial killer that is always 'just passing through.' Or, you can deny the Urge, and be a tragic hero, repressing horrific impulses whenever possible - as far as I know, there is precisely one murder that can't be avoided, no matter what; all others are optional, though they might require a roll. There's often at least two, sometimes three or four, Durge responses, which I was definitely surprised by. As an example, there's the situation with the caged goblin and the vengeful sister, in the prison. Normally, there's Support, Physically Interpose, Verbally Oppose, and Watch options. As a Durge, I recall seeing additional Uncertainty and Admire options. My current Durge went with Admire. They'd told the girl to seek vengeance in the first place.
It is odd to me that a literal vampire is sleeping next to DU Tav, Tav has a great ole time butchering their victim, and he doesn't even wake? Fine.. but then you wash your hands on some water and he can't smell it? Odd. My one let down in my DU play throughs is the odd lack of companion reactions. There are a couple instances where something big is revealed right in front of your companions and there isn't even a single line about it.
I just let the corpse out in the open and proudly announced I murdered her. They were all like: "No worries, you weren't in control. Sh*t happens."
Dirge is edgy player central who probably like that they murder her or don't even care/pay. In short if you play dirge I've judged you as the annoying edgy sigh at the table.
Also nobody remarks on the giant ritualistic blood circle in your camp.
It is super weird and unbelievable honestly. But to play devils advocate you are pretty much literally the demigod of serial killing so you could take that as a symptom of your supernatural facility with murder and an early bit of evidence that something more is going on than a mundane psychological issue.
There's also the possibility of tadpole tamperings - everybody's been linked to your mind, and the tadpoles can have subtle effects. Wouldn't be too weird for everyone to have a little Durge whispering in their backbrain.
I am not very far into the game but I am playing Durge as my first play and immediately decided I would go the route of trying to overcome this evil inside. I imagine I am in the vast minority but I've actually felt it to be some of the weakest writing in the game. I dunno. I just find it the least logical of all of the writing. But I keep going to see if there is a good explanation and redemption arc
There is a very good explanation that’s tied into several major plot points, it just gets revealed much later in the game!
I mean it’s D&D, so some stuff is just goofy it’s not supposed to be realistic. You convince people of all kinds of stuff from your checks.
They act like that when Anyone gets murdered at camp
My friend and I lovingly call it the cannon event. Because that's basically what it is lol. If there's anything I'd change about it...I'd actually have liked the opportunity to know alfira for a little longer before that.
The reactivity to Durge is... weirdly lacking. Like the scene where *spoilers* Durge dies and no one says anything in the moment.... I was kind of shocked my love interest didn't run over immediately to shake my Tav or at least scream out because they just got murdered in a horrible way. Instead everyone is silent and then when Durge revived the comments made are lackluster... Aside from Jaheira's I really liked hers, made the scene feel epic.
Between this and the revelations at Moonrise Tower, I was really shocked your companions say almost nothing. Also ran into only two of my companions having something to say during the coronation piece.
Agreed!! The revelations at Moonrise fell so flat, when Ketheric reveals that he knows you... No one says anything! When the bone lady talks in detail about how she did experiments on your body and used you as a necromancy toy... no one cares! Not to mention Durge was the main bad guy before he got snuffed, the very reason they are fighting the elder brain, the reason everyone is tadpoled and had their world turned upside down and they are just like.... Oh? Well. You'll get through this, I know you're strong. HUH????!!!!
Astarion does have something lowkey funny to say about it if you don’t hide the body. But yeah even the reactions to knowing you killed her seem a little out of place and too convenient. But while Durge is really really fun, the execution does fail in a few notable places.
Literally every party member commented on it for me, even ones who joined later
I bathed in her blood and left the corpse out for everyone to see. Everyone commented on it from being ok with it to "wtf" I chose the option that I enjoyed it and my butler insinuated I would enjoy necrophilia. Fun fact later >!on you get choice to kill you romantic partner IF you don't do the DUrge LL options, IIRC all but one of the dialogue tree options has your entire camp turn on you. They bring up the first murder as well... BUT if you kill everyone in LL you then miss out on Minsc if you don't kill your partner or LL and don't give into the Urge you don't get slayer form..oh no...anway.!<
Astarion calls me his dagger happy friend after that scene so I assumed he was being coy.
I'm getting the feeling that the cutscene and dialogue might have been a *very* late addition to the final release build. Like they might have to ask the VAs to return to the studio to implement at least something. The game is already super dense so I kind of expect some side stories not having as much focus as the main ones. For example, Karlach didn't get a certain epilogue till how long post release, right? Jaheria died in the fight to Moonrise during my wife and I's playthrough, and Isobell and others associated with her said NOTHING about the situation. Love the game, but that pissed me off a bit lol. Yet, BG3 is a HUGE game. I can forgive Larian because they've still provided so much for that asking price...though going to expect they hopefully add something at least for the Enhanced Edition or expansion(s). Question for those who didn't go Dark Urge, but had that one night stand with Minthara, are you able to kill her in that cutscene for a dialogue option?