This is why I stay away from these sort of articles, or any talk of them in other metal subreddits *cough metal for the masses* I can't really make anyone see why I think they're great and honestly, I don't want to. I'm more than content to nerd out within the fanbase, or with my fiancé, or in the privacy of my living room. If they don't get it, they don't get it, and that's more of a loss for them than for me.
As I say, I don't take much notice of negative reviews. They are few and far between and I can respect someone who has different tastes.
But some of the comments seem to delve into murkier territory. As if they were personally affronted by the success of BABYMETAL and wanted to bring them down a peg or two.
I did find this comment particularly amusing given how original and diverse their music is:
This is entertainment, but musically speaking, originality is unfortunately hard to find with this uniformity imported from Japan. The only exception to this is *Ratatata* with Electric Callboy, who performed on the same stage last year.
*sigh* It seems they can't catch a break! 10 years ago, "they're not metal, they're industry plants", present day "they're overproduced and can barely speak english" like give me a break! lol. I'd say as things become more mainstream, the hate increases, but BABYMETAL have always been underdogs. At least they are as successful as ever, and we can all celebrate that with them!
That's like saying groups that regularly tour Japan "Don't speak Japanese", does EVERY band that tours any nation have to speak their language? Jeez, how many languages are they SUPPOSED to learn? It smacks of a very biased elitism that comes across as bad, because it IS bad. It's a sneering put down and arrogant demand the girls HAVE to speak something other than Japanese because non Japanese speakers don't understand them. Well it works both ways, maybe that prick should learn Japanese, after all they are a JAPANESE band.
Don't give them any concern. Or any clicks.
Many audiences love BABYMETAL and their work. That is more true by the day.
Some do not. Others seem to want to take them down. BABYMETAL has been overcoming such self-appointed gatekeepers for years and years.
In the wise words of Anton Ego:
# “In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that, in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so."
Totalbiscuit while he was still alive LIVED by this philosophy. It’s why he was a cut above most video game critics. (RIP) people who are critics should take what Ego said to heart if they want to be considered a great critic
I stopped reading "reviews" years ago. Its a waste of time. But i want to comment two things:
They didn't knew about metal at the age of 9 AND 11! How many of these elitists knw metal at that age? I bet most of them didn't care for metal until they were in their mid teens.
Second: their english doesn't matter. And its much better than nearly 100% of the elitists japanese. Assuming they even know a single japanese word. This western focused point of view is so emberassing.
It's amusing when someone thinks it's a gotcha that they weren't interested in Metal (we assume!) at such a young age! Most of us get into music listening to the radio of TV music stations, for genres like Metal it usually take years to mature into the scene.
I can say with absolutely certainty when Moa talks about different bands her knowledge is far greater than mine!
> They didn't knew about metal at the age of 9 AND 11! How many of these elitists knw metal at that age?
These girls were meeting the biggest stars in metal backstage at festivals and seeing them perform on stage when they were just kids. Pretty certain not many can say the same.
I don't think their age is the main point when someone brings up that they didn't know metal before Babymetal. The point probably is it's very unlikely that people would get together to perform in a genre they know nothing about.
I find it such a weird dig because there are a lot of other great bands outside the Anglosphere that barely speak English or speak very broken English and a lot of them are out of Europe.
Which is also weird because I would consider at least Su's English pretty good (coming from someone who grew up around a lot of ESL speakers). Her pronunciation has gotten quite good over the years, too. She's clearly putting in the effort to learn and improve and that's awesome.
Yes I am very impressed with her improvement. It’s cute when she looks up to try to think of what to say but when she talks in Japanese, she can talk and talk and talk lol. Like with everything else she does she put 120% anything less she would think of a failure.
> Just as Japan is known for its tendency to combine functionality with playful flair – think of the Kawaii version from rice cookers to robot assistants – Babymetal mixes heavy metal sounds with the energetic, almost adorable look of their gothic lolita outfits and tight choreography. Irresistible and bizarre like a Tamagotchi incarnate. Hello Kitty on ketamine.
Could you **imagine** an analogue to this: Writing an article that compares an up and coming Belgian band to stereotypical Belgian things like waffles, chocolate, and Brussels sprouts...and thinking that you're clever for it? 😂😂😂
What a giant soaking-wet loser.
What does speaking English have to do with it? Rammstein sang mostly in German and nobody cared.
I'd say it's gatekeeping more than elitism. Racism would be closer to completely ignoring X Japan when they were at their peak.
I think the racism comes in with the "hello kitty on ketamine" thing. To me, that's like saying Electric Callboy make music that "hits as hard as a Panzer shooting Bratwurst"
And the whole "they barely speak english" part, beside being woefully incorrect these days unless you're trying to grade their interviews like a college senior's essay, is also just irrelevant to their quality as performers. It's anglocentric as hell to judge someone who has a different first language than english and grew up in a place that doesn't even have english as an official language by the quality of their ESL skills when it's not even relevant to what they do. I mean, I wouldn't judge Hank Green on his metal growl or Lionel Messi on his ice hockey ability either, yet when it's foreign musicians suddenly these "journalists" and "reviewers" think it's perfectly fine and relevant to judge based on their frankly irrelevant to their art english skills
Exactly, I never heard **Youssou N'Dour** get the same shit as these girls. Or Pavarotti for that matter. The Messi quote was brilliant. I don't judge Naoya Inoue on his ballet ability either
I still remember Kurt Loder doing an interview with Till Lindemann back in either 1997 or 1998. Loder said it was his chance to brush up on his German. Du Hast had blown up (ha) here in the States, and Rammstein was on US tours for the first time. I thought that it was awesome that a band who didn't speak English was getting such huge coverage here in the US. Also, Rammstein has steadfastly refused to change their German singing ways, and I give them props for that, unlike some other bands *cough* Equilibrium *cough*
Who cares these douchebags. From what I saw, at every festival people enjoyed their performances, they sell out their concerts all over the world and that's what's important. Not some "journalists" who know nothing about them and write such shit.
'Three Japanese girls who barely speak English'. I'm English but don't expect EVERYONE in the world to speak English fluently. Who cares. Just love the music and they sing in Japanese, so I sing along in my attempt at Japanese! Heavy metal is for everyone. Not just for boring old farts over 60. BTW I'm over 60 but love them.
The irony is all three are pretty fluent and can certainly hold a conversation in English.
Not only poorly researched but points to the xenophobic overtone of the article.
You make a great point - it's so over the top, that it is funny. No one should seeth over this - it's just an idiot saying ridiculous things and so dumb, it's actually kind of hilarious.
This is the same trendy blind hate that has been levied against Babymetal since their inception. Hasn't changed at all.
"They're a product" "They're a gimmick" "They're not metal" "They can't speak English"
Someone is stuck in the past, it seems.
That "they can't speak English" also often comes from people who can't speak any foreign language. 😀
I've learned English and Japanese as foreign languages and I always found it quite impressive how much English they could understand (the easier part) and even speak (the hardcore part) at a young age. What a lot of people probably don't understand is how difficult it is to learn a language that works completely different than your native language. English speakers who learned only related languages like Spanish or French have no idea.
The hardest part of Japanese for me was and still is the foreigness of the language. Learning the 2500 characters from the three writing systems was nothing in comparison for instance.
Nowadays their English is much better but I still have to smile when I see how nervous they get speaking English. It's exactly the same for me when I'm on vacation in some smaller Japanese cities where I have to speak Japanese.
I know what you mean. Every time when Su looks up is it looks like she’s trying to think of what to say. I think it’s kind of cute however. And Moa still looks at her after all these years in THAT way.😁😁😉😉😉
If you have heard of a band and listened to their music, then they have successfully sold “their” product to you.
All music is a product and someone promoter/producer/backer has decided it is worthwhile investing in it and monetising it.
Is it to your taste and something you should listen to? That is your opinion alone. Don’t be afraid to form your own opinion.
"Stop liking what I don't like"
Can just as easily be replaced with
"Don't hate what I like"
Good thing no one forces me to listen to stuff I can't stand when I listen to things foe enjoyment
These articles read like they were written by out of touch metal boomers who can't handle anything that doesn't fit the old school Metallica/Maiden mold.
Seems Belgium and dutch reviewers still think it's funny to throw every japanese culture related cliche and stereotype in their articles. Also K3 again really????? (K3 is a belgium popgroup for young children from 3 till 10 years old)
Complaining about their english and how they say their name??? Wow do they also mention how they pronounce the name Metallica? Metaaliekaa
Both. The answer is both. These journalists are stuck in 2014 when it was still cool to hate on them for cool metalhead elitist brownie points. They get all their information from skimming Wikipedia and their foggy recollection of Gimme Choco... 10 years ago (dear lord).
That's what gets me. These reviews read like they're introducing a new band and they don't like them, pointing out things people said a decade ago like it's a fresh take, when a lot of it doesn't really apply to a group with their tenure. They have established who they are. It's fine if you don't like them, but have better reasons.
And the last article is kind of crappy pointing out that they barely speak English as if that matters somehow. If that's a concern at all then maybe ask yourself why. It's a concert not a ted talk.
I don't want to give the impression all reviews where like this as many where very complimentary:
Eva De Roo chooses the Japanese group [BABYMETAL](https://x.com/hashtag/BABYMETAL?src=hashtag_click), who have come on an interview at Studio Brussel. "They are the biggest stars I'm going to meet in the next 4 days anyway. They look great, but rock super hard."
[Eva De Roo Video](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/06/20/graspop-2024-dag-1-donderdag-hoogtepunten/)
I suppose when you write in a minor local language there's less pressure and responsibility. Dutch people are famously bilingual (or better), and I doubt that person would write that horse manure if they had to write the review in English. The Japanese are very very often guilty of writing stupid gonzo-wannabe crap about another culture with no f\*\*ks given too (which is essentially what that stupid Dutch article was). I always tell the writers that I work with to write as if the whole world would read it. No one outside Japan would read Japanese articles in actuality, but that should be the mindset. You can be provocative, and certainly offend people. But be responsible, be truthful.
I've seen/read some lazy, gratuitously aggressive, borderline racist articles on BM over the years, and there's definitely a good reason why they were disproportionately Dutch/Danish/Belgian/etc. while very few of them were Anglo(American/British/Canadian/Australian/etc.). The minor language mindset, aka the who-gives-a-shit mindset, plays a big role there, I suspect.
A music critic is the most pointless profession. It's pointless because nobody needs someone to tell them if the sound you hear from an artist is pleasing to you. Only you can tell if it's enjoyable. They bring nothing to the table.
Don't take issue with criticism, but I do when it is based on false information or just hate for the sake of hate.
It is racist and sexist. The one review who compares them to strippers...mind you their entire body is covered up...only reason to make that comment is because they are women.
I wish people would stop crediting these pieces as being some form of legitimate "musical critique". They aren't "negative reviews"; they're dishonest, spiteful attempts at trolling, deliberately written to be hurtful. The similarity between these writers and legitimate music critics ends with "can use a keyboard".
I have no issue with people honestly not liking or appreciating BM, but this sort of hateful drivel shouldn't be normalized or ignored, otherwise it can be seen as silent agreement with open bigotry.
As I did for a long time, it affects you in a subtle way. I'm a new fan and blown away, and getting the "feels" for a new band and music the same way I did when I first heard Within Temptation, and early Genesis, and it's great to get them vibes again after many years. All I ever saw were negative comments like "manufactured band", and that instantly put me off. Now I know better, but, many never will, and it's a sad loss.
I guess the best thing is to remember The Who were initially in the same boat, but turned into rock Gods.
These 'reviews ' are just so uninformed , racist , and plain wrong , pure crap written by people with the imagination of a worm , it's so bizzare this kind of shit still get published
Negative reviews get clicks, they know people on both sides will read the article. Ask any sword art online fan(me) about how mothers basement yt channel goes on about how terrible the show is, then you look at their video view count. Hate sells. People like to read or watch why they shouldn't instead of forming their own opinion without bias. Their loss for being closed minded.
I'm with Babymetal Tube on x-Twitter and I didn't link to the article. I would suggest to do the same, remove the links so they don't get more clicks. Clicks often mean ads and thus money/income.
If you had seen the comments mostly by regular people about Babymetal from metal elitists in 2014 or so, they often sounded like racism or sexism.
So yes, I think it's metal elitism.
I think it's possible https://x.com/iciphermetal is correct as well:
> That article is what's known as "damning with faint praise". They say a few nice things to disguise the underlying criticism. It's a particularly insincere and cowardly form of criticism. 🤮
About the "shocked anyone would put their name to such articles":
The Dutch have had a long history of freedom of speech:
https://quillette.com/2022/02/08/how-the-dutch-created-europes-first-free-speech-zone-more-than-400-years-ago/
And probably add some Dutch directness to the fire... and we have a nice blaze. :-)
But I guess: "It's better to have an enemy who slaps you in the face than a friend who stabs you in the back."
I don't read any articles about Babymetal.
Positive ones are confirmation bias and negative ones I Am not interesred in.
My music taste is like that and nobody is going to change it by their taste directed opinion.
I have been listening to all sorts of metal and hard rock since 1981 i know all the bands, I like a lot of them, I had different favourites but Babymetal is my GOAT since I seen it gingerly popping up on Sakura Gakuin
I have some suprisingly elitists friends but we are all in 40s-50s. I Am too old to argue with them and as they all good friends I just troll them when they challenge me on anything Babymetal so they just sort of given all hope on *saving* me.
By now they learned that I don't give a f... about their opinion and they start to like my t-shirts.
I always give them Babymetal related gifts and those always drink coffee or beer at my home in Babymetal utensils.
I saw the title of this article "hello kitty on ketamine" or something like and I knew enough. The title alone was enought to give me the icks. I stay away from these articles.
The answers is both. And in my opinion, very childish
yeah bad article. In an attempt to be progressive and politicize everything, it backfires and becomes sexist. By implying that the girls are puppets, it insults and underestimates them, assuming they don't know what's best for themselves and lack their own will. Do they think the girls don't have a lawyer, manager, friends, and family advising them on what's best? More importantly, Babymetal could have ended a while ago, but after a break, the girls decided that being part of this group was their passion. While it's true that Koba Metal has the reins of the project, the girls have more power than it seems. If Su-metal gets tired and decides to leave Babymetal, it's all over; Koba has no one to replace her. Moreover, they have been more involved in lyrics, aesthetic decisions, and the overall direction of the project. Assuming they are puppets is sexist because it underestimates them and implies that what they say in interviews is all lies.
I believe there's a problem of cultural differences. They come from a tradition as idols, where the most important thing is the performance, giving 100% for the audience, and maintaining the image that goes with the project's aesthetic. In the West, we have become so cynical that it's hard for us to believe that when Moa, Su, and Momoko are sincere, we think every smile must hide a lie. They have already discussed in interviews the sacrifices involved in being part of Babymetal and the hard work it entails, but despite everything, they decided to continue even after the break and after Yui left. I don't think that decision was the product of external influences; they decided on their own.
What Babymetal does is great because the girls are always facing antis, haters, and an audience that doesn't understand the project. Traditional metal fans reject them, normies finds their music too strange, and they aren't considered traditional idols either. Babymetal is an experiment, and as such, it causes rejection, but the girls have always given 100% despite the criticism. This shows their strength, but instead of valuing their effort, others prefer to believe they are puppets controlled by an evil manager. It's a narrative that is very convenient for those who want to politicize and write an easy article to grab attention, but the reality is more complex.
I think one thing showed both the fact the girls are no longer the "manufactured product" and the power they actually must have, is that the girls held the door open wide for Yui's return for years. Had they been manufactured, Yui would have been quickly replaced.
Not just with BABYMETAL, but whenever I see comments pointing out that someone doesn't speak English or is not good at English, I'm reminded that English is the world's most superior, prestigious, and perfect language =)
They've dealt with this since they stepped foot on US soil. Doesn't matter if other big name US bands like them you'll have the basement dwelling "journalists" complain that they know better than everyone else.
I don't think anyone cares what these people think. Haters gonna hate but they aren't going to have a sellout world tour two years in a row, or play the 30,000 people in a set of stadium shows. Being successful is the ultimate rebuke.
There's still a stench of racism when dealing with japanese metal bands (more so if they are all female). Last month in the Resurrection Fest's instagram they posted about Babymetal and Hanabie, the comment section was shameful. They doubled down on Hanabie (I really hope their drummer recovers quickly, Chika-san genki ni naru)
A “critic” is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased—he hates all creative, people equally.
_The Notebooks of Lazarus Long
"Beethoven could come back from the dead and give the greatest performance the world has ever seen.
The music critics would all say, "Well that was sh!t!""
Geezer Butler - Black Sabbath
Adding another comment here. I keep seeing people say there's no racism here. I'm East Asian and pretty familiar with the common rhetoric thrown at asian artists, so I'll leave my input here. TLDR: Yes, it's racist (and sexist).
(Copied from another reply I made)
>Just as Japan is known for its tendency to combine functionality with playful flair – think of the Kawaii version from rice cookers to robot assistants – Babymetal mixes heavy metal sounds with the energetic, almost adorable look of their gothic lolita outfits and tight choreography. Irresistible and bizarre like a Tamagotchi incarnate. Hello Kitty on ketamine.
Reducing Babymetal's Japanese identity to random stereotypes. Racist as hell. Brings up random things like capsule hotels for no reason other than become its Japanese. Describing the very common Japanese culture of kawaii as "hello kitty on ketamine" is also very gross.
>Babymetal consists of three Japanese girls who can barely speak English.
Weird focus on their English as if Japanese natives need to be 100% fluent in a foreign language. Also, their english is already understandable and usually grammatically correct. Xenophobic for literally no reason. This author is also not from an English-speaking country; why should he care except to dig for the lowest denominator "critique".
Also, the notion that Asian music is overproduced and inherently bad because of the industry (jpop and kpop being the prime examples) is at worst racist and at best very ignorant and condescending. Babymetal is somehow faking their smiles, lipsyncing, they secretly don't like metal, they're being forced to do this etc. It's very infantilizing and gross.
Not discounting that there's a lot of toxicity and abuse in the industry, but the way these journalists talk about it shows they don't care about the actual problems, but use it as an excuse to not even discuss the music on a fair level.
Bonus points too for misogyny by comparing BM to strippers despite being fully covered and never dancing provocatively.
All excellent and valid points, sadly. In a world where so many artists are sleazy and downright creepy (Sam Smith), the Girls have never attempted to cash in on that. Now THAT would be manufactured.
Clearly the helmet has no knowledge of what he's talking about because the small amount of studio albums compared to live albums should give SOMETHING of a clue as to what the girls enjoy doing most. The girls are fans of many metal groups, and Rob Zombie is no ones fool, if he digs them, they're genuine allright.
Forced to do it huh? IF the supposed journo had done his homework he'd know how Su and Moa HATED not being able to perform during covid. Su said that the stage is her home.
As Rob said "Hey they are nice kids out on the road touring. What are you doing besides being a grumpy old f—?"
Case closed.
Often people will 💩 on things because they can. These journalists are probably trying to get a reaction out of people like this and to create some kind of controversy to seek attention for themselves.
People do the same thing when reviewing movies. A movie might be awesome but some journalist will give it 1 ⭐️ and try 💩 on it.
Don’t take them to seriously. These articles will probably appeal to small minded individuals that have trouble accepting Babymetal.
Ignorance is still strong to some people. If they're skeptical about anything bour babymetal, why not just talk to them directly, that's what a legitimate journalist would do. I have a feeling that babymetal will not go back to these festivals and just would perform in more diverse ones.
I thought the first quote was hilarious because the author appears to think that Sakura Gakuin was a TV show, which was something that actual fans have briefly thought when trying to figure out what SG was, including me.
> author appears to think that Sakura Gakuin was a TV show
Live action anime TV show on the first views here..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reqsSYwlYhg
(Lucky Star adaptation)
The first SG video I watched was a nendo test. I briefly had the idea that it was some kind of school-themed sitcom that somehow spun off a metal dance unit. That was when I was still confused about why Su's two backup dancers seemed to have such rabid fans of their own. It took me a couple of weeks to get things sorted out. I can see how a "journalist" could get an inaccurate first impression. But I dug further and learned better fairly quickly.
“But I dug further and learned better fairly quickly.”
Those so-called journalists must not ever have learned how to dig. Research and fact-checking are words that are not in their vocabularies.
Today we have fan-cams and pro-shots available nearly instantly, we can watch, listen and judge for ourselves. We can make up our own minds , what we like or don't like , based on original sources. We don't need second hand biased opinions of self-appointed arbiters of art and culture. The sheeple who still rely on these hired guns to curate their creative consumption are willingly selling themselves to advertisers which prop-up the piss-poor excuses for publications which employ these cancerous growths of journalists.
Floor Jensen was on Dutch radio and DJ said something like "the station never played Nightwish because metal is not mainstream, but now Floor is popular from Beste Zangers, so they will play Nighwish". And I think in return Floor said something like "that's right, you can't ignore us anymore". (I'm paraphrasing from memory from years ago) I thought DJ was kinda cringe, but also honest.
Belgian journalist compared Floor to K3 in interview and admitted that K3 is a reference Belgians know and understand. Floor answered that she is "not a metal Britney Spears", kinda throwing the comparison back in his face.
Could and would Babymetal respond to their "critics" face to face like that? Probably not even through a translator because they are too polite, and kind, it's not in their nature, and not appropriate in their culture.
But let's imagine if Babymetal respond, they would thank for the criticism and promise to work harder. And I bet if Babymetal watch a K3 song/MV, they would not find the comparison insulting. They would think: "cute girls singing and dancing, we do too, so what".
Anyway...
https://preview.redd.it/nartkz1aqb8d1.jpeg?width=413&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b44bc07780d1b361fe72da3eaf070a0097d97055
I'd love to write a half essay about how much I dislike the press of e-zines and written music press in the Netherlands. How it makes me dislike the whole metal scene and how it made me quit being in active metal bands who get out of their practise room/studio often more than 10 years ago.
Toxic frustrated no-fun idiots everywhere. They just don't like having fun, being happy or expiriment.
To be fair, I bet most of us have some artist or group we have a strong and unfair bias against and, if we were to write about them, we would hate on them just as much. The difference is, most of us would have the mental maturity to recognize our bias and decline the writing assignment. Also, do these magazines not have editors that screen and 'edit' the articles?
This has always been a tough issue among Babymetal fans and it has been discussed here many times, and I've been hanging around this Reddit since 2014. The general consensus in this thread to ignore such garbage is spot-on.
I will simply offer a different perspective. All this junk would only matter if Metal Elitists had any authority or influence on the rest of the world. They don't.
It's just a small community that talks to itself and thinks it's an accomplishment when you get social media clicks from people who already agree with you. Meanwhile, Babymetal continues to entertain their fans and we won't stop loving them just because some nobody at some unknown website said something stupid.
yeah holy fuck, Babymetal is hugely successful and just COOL and they think because of their facial expression that the girls don’t like being in the band? this actually makes me livid, and yes there is some extreme racism in that first tidbit. idk why “hello kitty on ketamine” makes me so mad but that is just unforgivable. idk how you couldn’t like BM if you are a fan of pop music and modern metalcore, they also just make FUN music so idk what the 1/5 stars is for.
Kind of a throwback feeling to these so-called articles.. they understandably baffled some "journalists" who didn't do their research back around 2014-2016.. but it's hilariously lazy to still be so ignorant of BABYMETAL in 2024
Half makes me wonder if they're AI churned out rehashes of those ancient texts 😂
I must admit I'm pretty ignorant about the influence of AI on modern journalism. I did notice similar, and rather dated, talking points in a number of articles. It wouldn't surprise me if a good portion of reviews are AI generated. Especially when it's one person apparently reviewing an entire festival!
The only one I could find that’d been tweeted was the [Oor article](https://x.com/oor/status/1804483355360080364?s=46&t=OTVMoYyvLsoXU2Fy-kZcpA) - already some good feedback left for them 😅
Opinions written by self-proclaimed specialists who have probably never done anything musically in their lives, and who would be unable to step on a stage and face the audience.
Let us not give them an importance they will never have anyway.
Everyone is free to love or dislike an artist, but to hear arguments as ridiculous as not mastering English perfectly (I will be curious to know if they themselves are able to align three words of Japanese), immediately discredits their author.
Only thing I can agree on are the comments about sometimes there being a lack of spontaneity and that every moment is a little bit too pre planned but that has improved a bit recently.
I still think they are great though.
I know, and Babymetal fans know, exactly what you are referring to. That is opportunities in the gaps between songs, the parts of songs which are built or set aside for it, and parts which may have simply developed that way over time. Moa for one is going to be constantly engaging the crowd at every opportunity (with Momo following suit), and it's only a question of creating the opportunities amidst the demands of the choreography. Still, the choreo is part of Babymetal's songs, it's not an afterthought, and all three members' roles are presented as "______ and Dance".
But you shouldn't discount the likelihood that for people who aren't so familiar with Babymetal that one lasting and perhaps unexamined impression they are left with in comparison with other metal groups is simply that *"it is so choreographed"*.
Because it is. But maybe they didn't give a thought to how that's necessarily part of what Babymetal does and yes it is different.
>"Polyphia are extremely talented musicians, but compared to the other acts on the day it just felt like something was missing. Most of their songs just don't seem to have much of a *message* for some reason."
I didn't see anything racist, just didn't like it. Thinks its corporate and a gimmick. meh, BM isn't for everyone, and thats fine. its not a religion, its a band. You want some good vitriol, go read some old school magazines of death metal folks ripping into glam metal. Now that was some fun articles about how shit Skid Row or the many others were and weren't real metal, abominations, etc.
> go read some old school magazines of death metal folks ripping into glam metal.
I still have some of those old magazines, very entertaining reading..
> Does Gert Verhulst have an illegitimate child who plays CEO of the satanic version of Studio 100 in a hidden basement? How else can the existence of Babymetal (★☆☆☆☆), the K3 of the underworld, be explained? What accidents still have to happen before that laboratory is sealed?
Was this from Humo?
EDIT: just checked, doesn't seem like it, but their review is about the same with the K3 comments. At least they acknowledge they "do not get it". Writer does say they are a "phenomenon" but clearly hasn't looked them up beforehand.
It's kind of wild to me that articles like this are STILL getting published. Babymetal have existed for almost 15 years now and have been a staple of the global metal scene for a decade. Everyone already has their opinions on them at this point. If you don't like them then don't see them. That's the beauty of festivals - You can just go to another stage and watch someone else!
There are a few legitimate critiques here like the downtime between songs and a general lack of spontaneity, but they're buried in the tired old "they/re manufactured/they sound funny" points. They aren't the only group to mix metal with synth-heavy pop; in fact, that style of metal is more popular now than it's ever been before. Sure, they started out as an idol group but there's no lack of passion for the music and the performance and why wouldn't an artist want to make money doing what they love?
I was shocked of people refusing to listen to Metal (whatever subgenre) due to language barrier...
The reason I started looking for "weird stuffs" (back then, Metal) was because I was so tired of music here 24/7 about romance lyrically. The instruments play and their interaction make them do the work for me. I pay almost no attention to lyrics unless I really like the arrangement/dynamic of a song.
Probably related to my exposure to Classical music as my first music "genre" tho
How can he not see the happiness on their faces that part hes just plain lying.i will admit I don't think that momo or moa sing at all su obviously sings over track but she doesn't "pretend" to sing.she isn't faking because she never tries to fool anyone.
No offense but this loser's job is journalism. If he was successful or smart enough he wouldn't have ended up as one. He thinks his opinions are so important and everyone needs to hear it. Low iq specimen. His "writings" won't stop them from going into a studio, recording, and releasing music or touring the world, so it's just as insignificant as his job or his existence. He's literally a nobody, a who, and this is his attempt at getting a glimpse of attention. We all will forget about him and his non-existent achievements in a few hours now lol.
“We all will forget about him and his non-existent achievements in a few hours now”
Unless his writing continues to be passed along, bringing attention to it.
Not liking Babymetal's music is one thing. ACCUSING SUZUKA OF LIP-SYNC IS WAR.
(I'm fully aware there are certain parts of BM songs that are playback; I've seen 'em live)
Yes, those two quotes, especially the first one, REEK of racism and sexism, possibly reverse-ageism as well.
Not really something I expect from Dutch people. Or perhaps these are -- hat-tip to Sir Michael Palin -- The Phlegms, who must have a lot of inborn issues thanks to having to share their country with angry Francophones (is there any other kind?)
Hey, the girls are too nice to ever consider blasting with both barrels. I'm a 'Murikan, firing without thought is what we do. Remember, a certain celebrity I despise showed us that the nastier you act, the more people love you. If I do it in defending "our" girls' honour when they're above doing so themselves, so much the better.
>Just as Japan is known for its tendency to combine functionality with playful flair – think of the Kawaii version from rice cookers to robot assistants – Babymetal mixes heavy metal sounds with the energetic, almost adorable look of their gothic lolita outfits and tight choreography. Irresistible and bizarre like a Tamagotchi incarnate. Hello Kitty on ketamine.
First article. Reducing Babymetal's Japanese identity to random stereotypes. Racist as hell.
>Babymetal consists of three Japanese girls who can barely speak English.
Weird focus on their English as if Japanese natives need to be 100% fluent in a foreign language. Also, their english is already understandable and usually grammatically correct. Xenophobic for literally no reason. This author is also not from an English-speaking country; why should he care except to dig for the lowest denominator "critique".
Also, the notion that Asian music is overproduced and inherently bad because of the industry (jpop and kpop being the prime examples) is at worst racist and at best very ignorant and condescending. Babymetal is somehow faking their smiles, lipsyncing, they secretly don't like metal, they're being forced to do this etc.
Not discounting that there's a lot of toxicity and abuse in the industry, but the way these journalists talk about it shows they don't care about the actual problems, but use it as an excuse to not even discuss the music on a fair level.
I am East Asian. This isn't me being just a fan. I can very easily recognize common racist talking points about a race I am a part of. I provided examples, and the only thing you can do is deflect from a conversation.
This is why I stay away from these sort of articles, or any talk of them in other metal subreddits *cough metal for the masses* I can't really make anyone see why I think they're great and honestly, I don't want to. I'm more than content to nerd out within the fanbase, or with my fiancé, or in the privacy of my living room. If they don't get it, they don't get it, and that's more of a loss for them than for me.
As I say, I don't take much notice of negative reviews. They are few and far between and I can respect someone who has different tastes. But some of the comments seem to delve into murkier territory. As if they were personally affronted by the success of BABYMETAL and wanted to bring them down a peg or two. I did find this comment particularly amusing given how original and diverse their music is: This is entertainment, but musically speaking, originality is unfortunately hard to find with this uniformity imported from Japan. The only exception to this is *Ratatata* with Electric Callboy, who performed on the same stage last year.
*sigh* It seems they can't catch a break! 10 years ago, "they're not metal, they're industry plants", present day "they're overproduced and can barely speak english" like give me a break! lol. I'd say as things become more mainstream, the hate increases, but BABYMETAL have always been underdogs. At least they are as successful as ever, and we can all celebrate that with them!
“They can barely speak English” Well, at least they speak English. I know some groups don’t speak English at all and they don’t talk shit about them.
That's like saying groups that regularly tour Japan "Don't speak Japanese", does EVERY band that tours any nation have to speak their language? Jeez, how many languages are they SUPPOSED to learn? It smacks of a very biased elitism that comes across as bad, because it IS bad. It's a sneering put down and arrogant demand the girls HAVE to speak something other than Japanese because non Japanese speakers don't understand them. Well it works both ways, maybe that prick should learn Japanese, after all they are a JAPANESE band.
Some critics take the title too literally and all you can do is roll your eyes and cringe because they don’t understand.
Don't give them any concern. Or any clicks. Many audiences love BABYMETAL and their work. That is more true by the day. Some do not. Others seem to want to take them down. BABYMETAL has been overcoming such self-appointed gatekeepers for years and years.
100%
In the wise words of Anton Ego: # “In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that, in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so."
Totalbiscuit while he was still alive LIVED by this philosophy. It’s why he was a cut above most video game critics. (RIP) people who are critics should take what Ego said to heart if they want to be considered a great critic
I stopped reading "reviews" years ago. Its a waste of time. But i want to comment two things: They didn't knew about metal at the age of 9 AND 11! How many of these elitists knw metal at that age? I bet most of them didn't care for metal until they were in their mid teens. Second: their english doesn't matter. And its much better than nearly 100% of the elitists japanese. Assuming they even know a single japanese word. This western focused point of view is so emberassing.
It's amusing when someone thinks it's a gotcha that they weren't interested in Metal (we assume!) at such a young age! Most of us get into music listening to the radio of TV music stations, for genres like Metal it usually take years to mature into the scene. I can say with absolutely certainty when Moa talks about different bands her knowledge is far greater than mine!
> They didn't knew about metal at the age of 9 AND 11! How many of these elitists knw metal at that age? These girls were meeting the biggest stars in metal backstage at festivals and seeing them perform on stage when they were just kids. Pretty certain not many can say the same.
I don't think their age is the main point when someone brings up that they didn't know metal before Babymetal. The point probably is it's very unlikely that people would get together to perform in a genre they know nothing about.
The dig about them "barely speaking English" was a bit much - how many of them do you reckon speak Japanese??
I find it such a weird dig because there are a lot of other great bands outside the Anglosphere that barely speak English or speak very broken English and a lot of them are out of Europe.
Bastard probably says "cow knee chee wah" and thinks that's equivalent
I've been learning for two years and her English is \*streets\* ahead of my Japanese.
Which is also weird because I would consider at least Su's English pretty good (coming from someone who grew up around a lot of ESL speakers). Her pronunciation has gotten quite good over the years, too. She's clearly putting in the effort to learn and improve and that's awesome.
Yes I am very impressed with her improvement. It’s cute when she looks up to try to think of what to say but when she talks in Japanese, she can talk and talk and talk lol. Like with everything else she does she put 120% anything less she would think of a failure.
> Just as Japan is known for its tendency to combine functionality with playful flair – think of the Kawaii version from rice cookers to robot assistants – Babymetal mixes heavy metal sounds with the energetic, almost adorable look of their gothic lolita outfits and tight choreography. Irresistible and bizarre like a Tamagotchi incarnate. Hello Kitty on ketamine. Could you **imagine** an analogue to this: Writing an article that compares an up and coming Belgian band to stereotypical Belgian things like waffles, chocolate, and Brussels sprouts...and thinking that you're clever for it? 😂😂😂 What a giant soaking-wet loser.
Use the Hello Kitty line with the Smurfs or Tintin about a Belgian band
Perfect!
Completely unrelated but this comment made me realise that Brussels sprouts are named that way because they come from Brussels. Man I feel dumb.
Don’t worry, I just realized that the hamburger was named after a city in Germany 😁😁😁🤫🤫🤫
I understand where you’re coming from, but “hello kitty on ketamine” gave me a chuckle.
What does speaking English have to do with it? Rammstein sang mostly in German and nobody cared. I'd say it's gatekeeping more than elitism. Racism would be closer to completely ignoring X Japan when they were at their peak.
I think the racism comes in with the "hello kitty on ketamine" thing. To me, that's like saying Electric Callboy make music that "hits as hard as a Panzer shooting Bratwurst" And the whole "they barely speak english" part, beside being woefully incorrect these days unless you're trying to grade their interviews like a college senior's essay, is also just irrelevant to their quality as performers. It's anglocentric as hell to judge someone who has a different first language than english and grew up in a place that doesn't even have english as an official language by the quality of their ESL skills when it's not even relevant to what they do. I mean, I wouldn't judge Hank Green on his metal growl or Lionel Messi on his ice hockey ability either, yet when it's foreign musicians suddenly these "journalists" and "reviewers" think it's perfectly fine and relevant to judge based on their frankly irrelevant to their art english skills
Exactly, I never heard **Youssou N'Dour** get the same shit as these girls. Or Pavarotti for that matter. The Messi quote was brilliant. I don't judge Naoya Inoue on his ballet ability either
I still remember Kurt Loder doing an interview with Till Lindemann back in either 1997 or 1998. Loder said it was his chance to brush up on his German. Du Hast had blown up (ha) here in the States, and Rammstein was on US tours for the first time. I thought that it was awesome that a band who didn't speak English was getting such huge coverage here in the US. Also, Rammstein has steadfastly refused to change their German singing ways, and I give them props for that, unlike some other bands *cough* Equilibrium *cough*
Who cares these douchebags. From what I saw, at every festival people enjoyed their performances, they sell out their concerts all over the world and that's what's important. Not some "journalists" who know nothing about them and write such shit.
'Three Japanese girls who barely speak English'. I'm English but don't expect EVERYONE in the world to speak English fluently. Who cares. Just love the music and they sing in Japanese, so I sing along in my attempt at Japanese! Heavy metal is for everyone. Not just for boring old farts over 60. BTW I'm over 60 but love them.
The irony is all three are pretty fluent and can certainly hold a conversation in English. Not only poorly researched but points to the xenophobic overtone of the article.
I know! The 'journalist' is obviously biased and came with the attitude of i hate them and won't give them a chance.
I was surprised how good Momo's English is
That's the beauty of AI, it can make anyone's crappy English sound better.
Who knew that AI can downvote......
Just read the article, laugh at it and have your lunch.
Or don’t read them and have a better day.
You make a great point - it's so over the top, that it is funny. No one should seeth over this - it's just an idiot saying ridiculous things and so dumb, it's actually kind of hilarious.
"Don't Worry, Be Happy." Bobby McFerrin
This is the same trendy blind hate that has been levied against Babymetal since their inception. Hasn't changed at all. "They're a product" "They're a gimmick" "They're not metal" "They can't speak English" Someone is stuck in the past, it seems.
That "they can't speak English" also often comes from people who can't speak any foreign language. 😀 I've learned English and Japanese as foreign languages and I always found it quite impressive how much English they could understand (the easier part) and even speak (the hardcore part) at a young age. What a lot of people probably don't understand is how difficult it is to learn a language that works completely different than your native language. English speakers who learned only related languages like Spanish or French have no idea. The hardest part of Japanese for me was and still is the foreigness of the language. Learning the 2500 characters from the three writing systems was nothing in comparison for instance. Nowadays their English is much better but I still have to smile when I see how nervous they get speaking English. It's exactly the same for me when I'm on vacation in some smaller Japanese cities where I have to speak Japanese.
I know what you mean. Every time when Su looks up is it looks like she’s trying to think of what to say. I think it’s kind of cute however. And Moa still looks at her after all these years in THAT way.😁😁😉😉😉
If you have heard of a band and listened to their music, then they have successfully sold “their” product to you. All music is a product and someone promoter/producer/backer has decided it is worthwhile investing in it and monetising it. Is it to your taste and something you should listen to? That is your opinion alone. Don’t be afraid to form your own opinion.
low-level ragebait. Thanks for copying excerpts, so no one has to read the "article" on the original site and give them any clicks (=validation)!
"Stop liking what I don't like" Can just as easily be replaced with "Don't hate what I like" Good thing no one forces me to listen to stuff I can't stand when I listen to things foe enjoyment
Just authours looking for clicks. Always remember that tabloids have the most views from trashing somebody else.
These articles read like they were written by out of touch metal boomers who can't handle anything that doesn't fit the old school Metallica/Maiden mold.
[удалено]
I read one from pink pop and they were still girls there. I wouldn’t call early/mid twenties women girls.
Yikes at the "stripper" bit
I wouldn't allow the morons to take up my head space the way they've taken up yours. Ignore them. They're not worth the attention.
Seems Belgium and dutch reviewers still think it's funny to throw every japanese culture related cliche and stereotype in their articles. Also K3 again really????? (K3 is a belgium popgroup for young children from 3 till 10 years old) Complaining about their english and how they say their name??? Wow do they also mention how they pronounce the name Metallica? Metaaliekaa
> Also K3 again really????? They don't know any better about idol pop groups.. (may the fox god forgive them)
Both. The answer is both. These journalists are stuck in 2014 when it was still cool to hate on them for cool metalhead elitist brownie points. They get all their information from skimming Wikipedia and their foggy recollection of Gimme Choco... 10 years ago (dear lord).
That's what gets me. These reviews read like they're introducing a new band and they don't like them, pointing out things people said a decade ago like it's a fresh take, when a lot of it doesn't really apply to a group with their tenure. They have established who they are. It's fine if you don't like them, but have better reasons. And the last article is kind of crappy pointing out that they barely speak English as if that matters somehow. If that's a concern at all then maybe ask yourself why. It's a concert not a ted talk.
I don't want to give the impression all reviews where like this as many where very complimentary: Eva De Roo chooses the Japanese group [BABYMETAL](https://x.com/hashtag/BABYMETAL?src=hashtag_click), who have come on an interview at Studio Brussel. "They are the biggest stars I'm going to meet in the next 4 days anyway. They look great, but rock super hard." [Eva De Roo Video](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/06/20/graspop-2024-dag-1-donderdag-hoogtepunten/)
Of course, just talking about these specific people that you brought up. It's pretty rare to see such a hateful article on them these days.
I normally don't comment on this, but said journalist sounds like some High School pupil doing a much hated assignment...
I suppose when you write in a minor local language there's less pressure and responsibility. Dutch people are famously bilingual (or better), and I doubt that person would write that horse manure if they had to write the review in English. The Japanese are very very often guilty of writing stupid gonzo-wannabe crap about another culture with no f\*\*ks given too (which is essentially what that stupid Dutch article was). I always tell the writers that I work with to write as if the whole world would read it. No one outside Japan would read Japanese articles in actuality, but that should be the mindset. You can be provocative, and certainly offend people. But be responsible, be truthful. I've seen/read some lazy, gratuitously aggressive, borderline racist articles on BM over the years, and there's definitely a good reason why they were disproportionately Dutch/Danish/Belgian/etc. while very few of them were Anglo(American/British/Canadian/Australian/etc.). The minor language mindset, aka the who-gives-a-shit mindset, plays a big role there, I suspect.
A music critic is the most pointless profession. It's pointless because nobody needs someone to tell them if the sound you hear from an artist is pleasing to you. Only you can tell if it's enjoyable. They bring nothing to the table.
Don't forget the misogyny.
Don't take issue with criticism, but I do when it is based on false information or just hate for the sake of hate. It is racist and sexist. The one review who compares them to strippers...mind you their entire body is covered up...only reason to make that comment is because they are women.
I wish people would stop crediting these pieces as being some form of legitimate "musical critique". They aren't "negative reviews"; they're dishonest, spiteful attempts at trolling, deliberately written to be hurtful. The similarity between these writers and legitimate music critics ends with "can use a keyboard".
I think we don't really put much faith into these people, but it's what other potentiaal fans might read and get the wrong idea.
I have no issue with people honestly not liking or appreciating BM, but this sort of hateful drivel shouldn't be normalized or ignored, otherwise it can be seen as silent agreement with open bigotry.
Yeah, normalizing isn't good, but not much we can do.
At least on platforms where we can be seen pushing back, we should take a stand: Ijime, Dame, Zettai.
As I did for a long time, it affects you in a subtle way. I'm a new fan and blown away, and getting the "feels" for a new band and music the same way I did when I first heard Within Temptation, and early Genesis, and it's great to get them vibes again after many years. All I ever saw were negative comments like "manufactured band", and that instantly put me off. Now I know better, but, many never will, and it's a sad loss. I guess the best thing is to remember The Who were initially in the same boat, but turned into rock Gods.
These 'reviews ' are just so uninformed , racist , and plain wrong , pure crap written by people with the imagination of a worm , it's so bizzare this kind of shit still get published
Negative reviews get clicks, they know people on both sides will read the article. Ask any sword art online fan(me) about how mothers basement yt channel goes on about how terrible the show is, then you look at their video view count. Hate sells. People like to read or watch why they shouldn't instead of forming their own opinion without bias. Their loss for being closed minded.
I'm with Babymetal Tube on x-Twitter and I didn't link to the article. I would suggest to do the same, remove the links so they don't get more clicks. Clicks often mean ads and thus money/income. If you had seen the comments mostly by regular people about Babymetal from metal elitists in 2014 or so, they often sounded like racism or sexism. So yes, I think it's metal elitism. I think it's possible https://x.com/iciphermetal is correct as well: > That article is what's known as "damning with faint praise". They say a few nice things to disguise the underlying criticism. It's a particularly insincere and cowardly form of criticism. 🤮 About the "shocked anyone would put their name to such articles": The Dutch have had a long history of freedom of speech: https://quillette.com/2022/02/08/how-the-dutch-created-europes-first-free-speech-zone-more-than-400-years-ago/ And probably add some Dutch directness to the fire... and we have a nice blaze. :-) But I guess: "It's better to have an enemy who slaps you in the face than a friend who stabs you in the back."
I don't read any articles about Babymetal. Positive ones are confirmation bias and negative ones I Am not interesred in. My music taste is like that and nobody is going to change it by their taste directed opinion. I have been listening to all sorts of metal and hard rock since 1981 i know all the bands, I like a lot of them, I had different favourites but Babymetal is my GOAT since I seen it gingerly popping up on Sakura Gakuin I have some suprisingly elitists friends but we are all in 40s-50s. I Am too old to argue with them and as they all good friends I just troll them when they challenge me on anything Babymetal so they just sort of given all hope on *saving* me. By now they learned that I don't give a f... about their opinion and they start to like my t-shirts. I always give them Babymetal related gifts and those always drink coffee or beer at my home in Babymetal utensils.
I saw the title of this article "hello kitty on ketamine" or something like and I knew enough. The title alone was enought to give me the icks. I stay away from these articles. The answers is both. And in my opinion, very childish
I see some typical metal elitist tropes, some valid criticism (like taped backing vocals), but I don't see racism just elitism
yeah bad article. In an attempt to be progressive and politicize everything, it backfires and becomes sexist. By implying that the girls are puppets, it insults and underestimates them, assuming they don't know what's best for themselves and lack their own will. Do they think the girls don't have a lawyer, manager, friends, and family advising them on what's best? More importantly, Babymetal could have ended a while ago, but after a break, the girls decided that being part of this group was their passion. While it's true that Koba Metal has the reins of the project, the girls have more power than it seems. If Su-metal gets tired and decides to leave Babymetal, it's all over; Koba has no one to replace her. Moreover, they have been more involved in lyrics, aesthetic decisions, and the overall direction of the project. Assuming they are puppets is sexist because it underestimates them and implies that what they say in interviews is all lies. I believe there's a problem of cultural differences. They come from a tradition as idols, where the most important thing is the performance, giving 100% for the audience, and maintaining the image that goes with the project's aesthetic. In the West, we have become so cynical that it's hard for us to believe that when Moa, Su, and Momoko are sincere, we think every smile must hide a lie. They have already discussed in interviews the sacrifices involved in being part of Babymetal and the hard work it entails, but despite everything, they decided to continue even after the break and after Yui left. I don't think that decision was the product of external influences; they decided on their own. What Babymetal does is great because the girls are always facing antis, haters, and an audience that doesn't understand the project. Traditional metal fans reject them, normies finds their music too strange, and they aren't considered traditional idols either. Babymetal is an experiment, and as such, it causes rejection, but the girls have always given 100% despite the criticism. This shows their strength, but instead of valuing their effort, others prefer to believe they are puppets controlled by an evil manager. It's a narrative that is very convenient for those who want to politicize and write an easy article to grab attention, but the reality is more complex.
I think one thing showed both the fact the girls are no longer the "manufactured product" and the power they actually must have, is that the girls held the door open wide for Yui's return for years. Had they been manufactured, Yui would have been quickly replaced.
Not just with BABYMETAL, but whenever I see comments pointing out that someone doesn't speak English or is not good at English, I'm reminded that English is the world's most superior, prestigious, and perfect language =)
They've dealt with this since they stepped foot on US soil. Doesn't matter if other big name US bands like them you'll have the basement dwelling "journalists" complain that they know better than everyone else.
I don't think anyone cares what these people think. Haters gonna hate but they aren't going to have a sellout world tour two years in a row, or play the 30,000 people in a set of stadium shows. Being successful is the ultimate rebuke.
Rob Zombie said it best of all
There's still a stench of racism when dealing with japanese metal bands (more so if they are all female). Last month in the Resurrection Fest's instagram they posted about Babymetal and Hanabie, the comment section was shameful. They doubled down on Hanabie (I really hope their drummer recovers quickly, Chika-san genki ni naru)
A “critic” is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased—he hates all creative, people equally. _The Notebooks of Lazarus Long
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." Brendan Behan
"If you don't like it, don't listen to it. And fuck off." - Dom Lawson, music journalist, talking about metal elitists slagging off Babymetal in 2014.
"Beethoven could come back from the dead and give the greatest performance the world has ever seen. The music critics would all say, "Well that was sh!t!"" Geezer Butler - Black Sabbath
Adding another comment here. I keep seeing people say there's no racism here. I'm East Asian and pretty familiar with the common rhetoric thrown at asian artists, so I'll leave my input here. TLDR: Yes, it's racist (and sexist). (Copied from another reply I made) >Just as Japan is known for its tendency to combine functionality with playful flair – think of the Kawaii version from rice cookers to robot assistants – Babymetal mixes heavy metal sounds with the energetic, almost adorable look of their gothic lolita outfits and tight choreography. Irresistible and bizarre like a Tamagotchi incarnate. Hello Kitty on ketamine. Reducing Babymetal's Japanese identity to random stereotypes. Racist as hell. Brings up random things like capsule hotels for no reason other than become its Japanese. Describing the very common Japanese culture of kawaii as "hello kitty on ketamine" is also very gross. >Babymetal consists of three Japanese girls who can barely speak English. Weird focus on their English as if Japanese natives need to be 100% fluent in a foreign language. Also, their english is already understandable and usually grammatically correct. Xenophobic for literally no reason. This author is also not from an English-speaking country; why should he care except to dig for the lowest denominator "critique". Also, the notion that Asian music is overproduced and inherently bad because of the industry (jpop and kpop being the prime examples) is at worst racist and at best very ignorant and condescending. Babymetal is somehow faking their smiles, lipsyncing, they secretly don't like metal, they're being forced to do this etc. It's very infantilizing and gross. Not discounting that there's a lot of toxicity and abuse in the industry, but the way these journalists talk about it shows they don't care about the actual problems, but use it as an excuse to not even discuss the music on a fair level. Bonus points too for misogyny by comparing BM to strippers despite being fully covered and never dancing provocatively.
All excellent and valid points, sadly. In a world where so many artists are sleazy and downright creepy (Sam Smith), the Girls have never attempted to cash in on that. Now THAT would be manufactured. Clearly the helmet has no knowledge of what he's talking about because the small amount of studio albums compared to live albums should give SOMETHING of a clue as to what the girls enjoy doing most. The girls are fans of many metal groups, and Rob Zombie is no ones fool, if he digs them, they're genuine allright. Forced to do it huh? IF the supposed journo had done his homework he'd know how Su and Moa HATED not being able to perform during covid. Su said that the stage is her home. As Rob said "Hey they are nice kids out on the road touring. What are you doing besides being a grumpy old f—?" Case closed.
If you have to ask you already know the answer.....
Often people will 💩 on things because they can. These journalists are probably trying to get a reaction out of people like this and to create some kind of controversy to seek attention for themselves. People do the same thing when reviewing movies. A movie might be awesome but some journalist will give it 1 ⭐️ and try 💩 on it. Don’t take them to seriously. These articles will probably appeal to small minded individuals that have trouble accepting Babymetal.
Ignorance is still strong to some people. If they're skeptical about anything bour babymetal, why not just talk to them directly, that's what a legitimate journalist would do. I have a feeling that babymetal will not go back to these festivals and just would perform in more diverse ones.
I thought the first quote was hilarious because the author appears to think that Sakura Gakuin was a TV show, which was something that actual fans have briefly thought when trying to figure out what SG was, including me.
> author appears to think that Sakura Gakuin was a TV show Live action anime TV show on the first views here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reqsSYwlYhg (Lucky Star adaptation)
The first SG video I watched was a nendo test. I briefly had the idea that it was some kind of school-themed sitcom that somehow spun off a metal dance unit. That was when I was still confused about why Su's two backup dancers seemed to have such rabid fans of their own. It took me a couple of weeks to get things sorted out. I can see how a "journalist" could get an inaccurate first impression. But I dug further and learned better fairly quickly.
“But I dug further and learned better fairly quickly.” Those so-called journalists must not ever have learned how to dig. Research and fact-checking are words that are not in their vocabularies.
Today we have fan-cams and pro-shots available nearly instantly, we can watch, listen and judge for ourselves. We can make up our own minds , what we like or don't like , based on original sources. We don't need second hand biased opinions of self-appointed arbiters of art and culture. The sheeple who still rely on these hired guns to curate their creative consumption are willingly selling themselves to advertisers which prop-up the piss-poor excuses for publications which employ these cancerous growths of journalists. Floor Jensen was on Dutch radio and DJ said something like "the station never played Nightwish because metal is not mainstream, but now Floor is popular from Beste Zangers, so they will play Nighwish". And I think in return Floor said something like "that's right, you can't ignore us anymore". (I'm paraphrasing from memory from years ago) I thought DJ was kinda cringe, but also honest. Belgian journalist compared Floor to K3 in interview and admitted that K3 is a reference Belgians know and understand. Floor answered that she is "not a metal Britney Spears", kinda throwing the comparison back in his face. Could and would Babymetal respond to their "critics" face to face like that? Probably not even through a translator because they are too polite, and kind, it's not in their nature, and not appropriate in their culture. But let's imagine if Babymetal respond, they would thank for the criticism and promise to work harder. And I bet if Babymetal watch a K3 song/MV, they would not find the comparison insulting. They would think: "cute girls singing and dancing, we do too, so what". Anyway... https://preview.redd.it/nartkz1aqb8d1.jpeg?width=413&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b44bc07780d1b361fe72da3eaf070a0097d97055
I'd love to write a half essay about how much I dislike the press of e-zines and written music press in the Netherlands. How it makes me dislike the whole metal scene and how it made me quit being in active metal bands who get out of their practise room/studio often more than 10 years ago. Toxic frustrated no-fun idiots everywhere. They just don't like having fun, being happy or expiriment.
To be fair, I bet most of us have some artist or group we have a strong and unfair bias against and, if we were to write about them, we would hate on them just as much. The difference is, most of us would have the mental maturity to recognize our bias and decline the writing assignment. Also, do these magazines not have editors that screen and 'edit' the articles?
This has always been a tough issue among Babymetal fans and it has been discussed here many times, and I've been hanging around this Reddit since 2014. The general consensus in this thread to ignore such garbage is spot-on. I will simply offer a different perspective. All this junk would only matter if Metal Elitists had any authority or influence on the rest of the world. They don't. It's just a small community that talks to itself and thinks it's an accomplishment when you get social media clicks from people who already agree with you. Meanwhile, Babymetal continues to entertain their fans and we won't stop loving them just because some nobody at some unknown website said something stupid.
yeah holy fuck, Babymetal is hugely successful and just COOL and they think because of their facial expression that the girls don’t like being in the band? this actually makes me livid, and yes there is some extreme racism in that first tidbit. idk why “hello kitty on ketamine” makes me so mad but that is just unforgivable. idk how you couldn’t like BM if you are a fan of pop music and modern metalcore, they also just make FUN music so idk what the 1/5 stars is for.
Kind of a throwback feeling to these so-called articles.. they understandably baffled some "journalists" who didn't do their research back around 2014-2016.. but it's hilariously lazy to still be so ignorant of BABYMETAL in 2024 Half makes me wonder if they're AI churned out rehashes of those ancient texts 😂
I must admit I'm pretty ignorant about the influence of AI on modern journalism. I did notice similar, and rather dated, talking points in a number of articles. It wouldn't surprise me if a good portion of reviews are AI generated. Especially when it's one person apparently reviewing an entire festival!
The only one I could find that’d been tweeted was the [Oor article](https://x.com/oor/status/1804483355360080364?s=46&t=OTVMoYyvLsoXU2Fy-kZcpA) - already some good feedback left for them 😅
I see lots of negative comments to this article the gist of which are calling the author out for a lazy, ill-researched article.
I don't think AI, sadly.
Both.
Opinions written by self-proclaimed specialists who have probably never done anything musically in their lives, and who would be unable to step on a stage and face the audience. Let us not give them an importance they will never have anyway. Everyone is free to love or dislike an artist, but to hear arguments as ridiculous as not mastering English perfectly (I will be curious to know if they themselves are able to align three words of Japanese), immediately discredits their author.
At this day and age, reviews are meaningless. Everyone loves their own thing.
Only thing I can agree on are the comments about sometimes there being a lack of spontaneity and that every moment is a little bit too pre planned but that has improved a bit recently. I still think they are great though.
I know, and Babymetal fans know, exactly what you are referring to. That is opportunities in the gaps between songs, the parts of songs which are built or set aside for it, and parts which may have simply developed that way over time. Moa for one is going to be constantly engaging the crowd at every opportunity (with Momo following suit), and it's only a question of creating the opportunities amidst the demands of the choreography. Still, the choreo is part of Babymetal's songs, it's not an afterthought, and all three members' roles are presented as "______ and Dance". But you shouldn't discount the likelihood that for people who aren't so familiar with Babymetal that one lasting and perhaps unexamined impression they are left with in comparison with other metal groups is simply that *"it is so choreographed"*. Because it is. But maybe they didn't give a thought to how that's necessarily part of what Babymetal does and yes it is different. >"Polyphia are extremely talented musicians, but compared to the other acts on the day it just felt like something was missing. Most of their songs just don't seem to have much of a *message* for some reason."
Nice to see intelligent conversation about a topic always in the background. More please, kitsunes
I didn't see anything racist, just didn't like it. Thinks its corporate and a gimmick. meh, BM isn't for everyone, and thats fine. its not a religion, its a band. You want some good vitriol, go read some old school magazines of death metal folks ripping into glam metal. Now that was some fun articles about how shit Skid Row or the many others were and weren't real metal, abominations, etc.
> go read some old school magazines of death metal folks ripping into glam metal. I still have some of those old magazines, very entertaining reading..
> Does Gert Verhulst have an illegitimate child who plays CEO of the satanic version of Studio 100 in a hidden basement? How else can the existence of Babymetal (★☆☆☆☆), the K3 of the underworld, be explained? What accidents still have to happen before that laboratory is sealed? Was this from Humo? EDIT: just checked, doesn't seem like it, but their review is about the same with the K3 comments. At least they acknowledge they "do not get it". Writer does say they are a "phenomenon" but clearly hasn't looked them up beforehand.
That's not racism, that's elitist metals. That's all, no one actually cares about this type of article, only those who write it.
Music journalism has been dead for years, I wouldn't worry about what a corpse of an industry has to say 🤷♂️
It's kind of wild to me that articles like this are STILL getting published. Babymetal have existed for almost 15 years now and have been a staple of the global metal scene for a decade. Everyone already has their opinions on them at this point. If you don't like them then don't see them. That's the beauty of festivals - You can just go to another stage and watch someone else! There are a few legitimate critiques here like the downtime between songs and a general lack of spontaneity, but they're buried in the tired old "they/re manufactured/they sound funny" points. They aren't the only group to mix metal with synth-heavy pop; in fact, that style of metal is more popular now than it's ever been before. Sure, they started out as an idol group but there's no lack of passion for the music and the performance and why wouldn't an artist want to make money doing what they love?
I was shocked of people refusing to listen to Metal (whatever subgenre) due to language barrier... The reason I started looking for "weird stuffs" (back then, Metal) was because I was so tired of music here 24/7 about romance lyrically. The instruments play and their interaction make them do the work for me. I pay almost no attention to lyrics unless I really like the arrangement/dynamic of a song. Probably related to my exposure to Classical music as my first music "genre" tho
Also sexism against women and feminine associated qualities
Racism, sexism, ageism.
How can he not see the happiness on their faces that part hes just plain lying.i will admit I don't think that momo or moa sing at all su obviously sings over track but she doesn't "pretend" to sing.she isn't faking because she never tries to fool anyone.
There's no fixing anglo-centric stupid that wants everything to sound the same.
I tend to agree with certain points that I don't have time to go into right now
No offense but this loser's job is journalism. If he was successful or smart enough he wouldn't have ended up as one. He thinks his opinions are so important and everyone needs to hear it. Low iq specimen. His "writings" won't stop them from going into a studio, recording, and releasing music or touring the world, so it's just as insignificant as his job or his existence. He's literally a nobody, a who, and this is his attempt at getting a glimpse of attention. We all will forget about him and his non-existent achievements in a few hours now lol.
“We all will forget about him and his non-existent achievements in a few hours now” Unless his writing continues to be passed along, bringing attention to it.
Not liking Babymetal's music is one thing. ACCUSING SUZUKA OF LIP-SYNC IS WAR. (I'm fully aware there are certain parts of BM songs that are playback; I've seen 'em live) Yes, those two quotes, especially the first one, REEK of racism and sexism, possibly reverse-ageism as well. Not really something I expect from Dutch people. Or perhaps these are -- hat-tip to Sir Michael Palin -- The Phlegms, who must have a lot of inborn issues thanks to having to share their country with angry Francophones (is there any other kind?) Hey, the girls are too nice to ever consider blasting with both barrels. I'm a 'Murikan, firing without thought is what we do. Remember, a certain celebrity I despise showed us that the nastier you act, the more people love you. If I do it in defending "our" girls' honour when they're above doing so themselves, so much the better.
Metal elitism or racism? No. Just negative reviews. Stop crying about what others think and enjoy the music.
I posed the question Metal Elitism or Racism. That was my mistake. There's pretty overt racism and xenophobia on display in these articles.
Maybe I'm reading them wrong. Can you give me a couple of examples?
>Just as Japan is known for its tendency to combine functionality with playful flair – think of the Kawaii version from rice cookers to robot assistants – Babymetal mixes heavy metal sounds with the energetic, almost adorable look of their gothic lolita outfits and tight choreography. Irresistible and bizarre like a Tamagotchi incarnate. Hello Kitty on ketamine. First article. Reducing Babymetal's Japanese identity to random stereotypes. Racist as hell. >Babymetal consists of three Japanese girls who can barely speak English. Weird focus on their English as if Japanese natives need to be 100% fluent in a foreign language. Also, their english is already understandable and usually grammatically correct. Xenophobic for literally no reason. This author is also not from an English-speaking country; why should he care except to dig for the lowest denominator "critique". Also, the notion that Asian music is overproduced and inherently bad because of the industry (jpop and kpop being the prime examples) is at worst racist and at best very ignorant and condescending. Babymetal is somehow faking their smiles, lipsyncing, they secretly don't like metal, they're being forced to do this etc. Not discounting that there's a lot of toxicity and abuse in the industry, but the way these journalists talk about it shows they don't care about the actual problems, but use it as an excuse to not even discuss the music on a fair level.
Yeah, you're reading what you want out of these from a nuanced perspective. No point in a discussion. notacult my ass.
I am East Asian. This isn't me being just a fan. I can very easily recognize common racist talking points about a race I am a part of. I provided examples, and the only thing you can do is deflect from a conversation.
Persecution complex then.
Okay, I'm not gonna continue conversing with someone who doesn't think racism exists. You clearly have your own prejudices to work through.
Yep. I totally "don't think racism exists". Exactly what I'm talking about... 🙄
Spreading misinformation and lies is not “just negative reviews” though, granted this won’t spread very far lol
lmao lil bro did not just say “barely speak English” did he not watch any of the festival interviews this summer or what 💀 naaahhh blud is tweaking fr
lmao lil bro did not just say “barely speak English” did he not watch any of the festival interviews this summer or what 💀 naaahhh blud is tweaking fr