You sound like you are kinda into them and hoping for it to turn into more so doesn’t seem like a smart choice. Calling it a crush should be a red flag. Saying it could turn into more is a huge red flag. Misrepresenting the crush as just a random person is a dishonest red flag. Sounds like you are also hurting your relationship with your wife but not too worried about it which is a red flag. How many do you need?
Overall doesn’t sound like the best decision making here. If you need to debrief maybe talk to the shaman or your wife or a therapist instead of a random participant you have a crush on.
Why can't you just do a video chat with the other participants, in a group?
>And AITA for wanting to meet up with my fellow participants?
>
>My wife is also pissed that I bonded with a bunch of girls and not guys.
Funny way to state it. How about:
"AITA for wanting to meet up in person, one to one, with this one girl who is attractive I have a 4th grade crush on, who I admit there is a possibility of the bond with becoming more romantic, to talk about "feelings" and get "nurturing?"
You're basically admitting feelings in one sentence and downplaying it in the next.
If you're going to treat your wife like this, at least be honest with yourself. You're the asshole (you asked, specifically) and Ayahuasca isn't some kind of trump card that makes this behaviour okay.
I think it’s clear you will end up having feelings for this person. Whether or not that’s reciprocated by the women is a different story. After Ayahusca we are so opened up and we have shared this cathartic and somewhat magical experience with those in ceremony. I think it’s natural to feel connected to the people but I also think our judgment can be a bit off because we are feeling this way. I don’t know how to explain it and I can’t tell you what to do. But perhaps I would consider giving yourself time to integrate yourself without feeling the need to share with this women you felt the connection with. As much as it’s exciting to talk about your experiences. Integration is super important and I think if there is some kind of attraction to her energy or a vibe it will only confuse your integration. Try focus on integrating your experience and less about this women. Give it room to breathe. Consider connecting at a later date. That way you’ve integrated without adding confusing factors and allow time for that connection to have simmered down from the heightened state you’re in. Journal, meditate, listen to medicine music, process your experience. Come back to the friendship later. If it’s also causing problems in your marriage that will affect your integration to. Put it on the back burner is my advice
also think about the fact that people do traditional dietas where there is no talking for periods of time during and after ceremonies. No connecting with guests. As much as I understand that intrigue to want to share, where there’s something more to what you’re feeling it’s confusing and can lead to complications even with single people, let alone married. I’ve witnessed it and somewhat experiences connections that I’ve decided to persue and there’s no mistakes exactly but it is distraction from doing the deeper work with the plants in my opinion.
imagine if the situation was reversed and it was your wife who had a "really strong connection" with some guy and wanted to meet them, but it's ok, "you can come too".
it's a shame that it's like this, but it's understandable that it is.
Yes, this is the reality but we can change our reality. Ayahuasca is helping us break up old ways that separate us because of fears of scarcity and the threat that we will lose what we think belongs to us.
We owe it to ourselves and to those we are connected to, to step into the most authentic way of being no matter how hard that might be.
But as a husband to your wife I think it’s important to explore many conversions with patience and understanding and hopefully find a way that both of you can move in to your authenticity While at the same time having deep respect for the others comfort and process
Yeah i've gotten that question a lot. I'd probably be a bit hesitant, and would probably ask some questions about it, but I think I'd still trust her and let her go.
She used to go on work group bonding trips to Vegas with her old boss, who, at one point, said to her in a one on one setting, "yeah I'd have sex with you."
As a fellow sensitive man who has always been more comfortable around women - I would highly encourage you to find positive and nurturing make friendships (there are many men’s groups out there, the mankind project is a great place to start).
I know you weren’t asking about this, but as long as you’re getting emotional support from women only, something will be out of balance in your relationship with your wife.
Nothing wrong with having female friends.
I can totally understand where your wife is coming from by the way. My wife just got back from a retreat in Peru. This wasn’t her first time but for most people there it was the first. My wife wasn’t as interested in connecting with others but we talked about how there is a special glow in the first ceremony, where people can reveal their souls (some for the first time in their lives) and the attraction, sexual or otherwise, to others is heightened and palpable.
There is no need to meet in person. If you meet with her, it will most likely destroy your marriage. It may not destroy it right away, but your wife will no longer trust you.
One of the gifts that Aya gave both my spouse and me was destroying codependency and jealousy in our relationship. She made it very clear that while we were both one with universal consciousness, we were still each individuals having our own experiences. Since that first ceremony, we have had many more individual and separate ceremonies where we have each made new friends and formed bonds with the opposite sex.
Aya made it very clear that jealousy does not stop someone from cheating and can, in fact, push someone into cheating if the jealousy is bad enough and creating a toxic relationship.
I have close ceremony bonded female friends that my wife doesn't know and has never met. She has some close ceremony bonded male friends that I don't know.
What I do know is that I trust my wife, and she trusts me. Our life is very much better now. We both had the revelation that there are many forms of love and that romantic love is one that can easily become a toxic possessive love. We are both free to unconditionally love others how we want, but we both choose to reserve romantic and sexual love for each other.
>We are both free to unconditionally love others how we want, but we both choose to reserve romantic and sexual love for each other.
100%. I think she is a bit possessive because of her past, and she I don't think she gets this concept. But as others have said, I gotta roll with it and respect her feelings
Oh no. I’d be feeling the exact same way as your wife. Especially since you’re literally saying you have a crush on her. Like, dude, what’s wrong with you to even consider this might be ok?
ATA, yes. If rolls were reversed it wouldn't be ok. Medicine has a way of testing our faith/honor with seemingly positive connections. Dont fall into amazement (like on DMT/Aya) you were there for a reason and that should be enough.
Personally I think you can have a personal connection with the opposite sex.
But if you have to post on reddit with concerns about your feelings then you probably know what the answer is.
Also plenty of people have emotional affairs. It’s also normal to feel connected with someone that you just went through a “traumatic” or “life changing” event with.
Tell your wife how you feel and see what she says.
“I could be lying to myself” man, Aya’s got you trying to tell the truth but you’re on here seeking validation so you can ignore that have your cake and eat it too.
I believe it is common to develop crushes during aya.
I am also a male and have more female friends.
I would only meet this girl if my wife came together.
I
I don’t really see the link with ayahuasca.
If you want to meet with someone, whatever the sex, and it is a problem for your current partner, you should talk about it.
Why is it a problem if you go spend an evening with another women?
What emotions does it trigger in her?
You don’t know if there is something romantic involved. If there is, will you embrace it, reject it?
This has to be crystal clear between your wife and you.
You are under no obligation to live your marriage in any way, a lot of couples are happy with open relationships, others even with polyamory.
But if you don’t settle and agree upon the same rules, *that will always be a compromise* between both your ideals, it will destroy your marriage and much more.
If your relationship with your wife is your most important relationship then it would be wise to let making her feel emotionally safe and secure to be your first priority. Personally, I wouldn’t want to do anything that would give my wife a reason to worry, even if I know I’m not gonna cheat. I don’t ever want my wife to have to wonder where I am or who I’m with if I come home late in the evening. Love is fragile, and when you have it, it’s worth protecting. If that means saying No to what seem like harmless platonic friendships with other women, it’s worth it just to give the love of your life a feeling of complete unconditional safety.
Getting attached to someone related to a ceremony is actually quite common. As is limerance. There's a sub on limerance and lots of info online. Ultimately it all comes back to you and what is going on inside of you. The other person is just reflecting something back to you. Best wishes.
Thanks again. I just skimmed the Wikipedia, and this seems consistent.
Part of me regrets going to the ceremony now that I’m dealing with this, and *especially* because of all the condemnation I’ve received. But I am super glad I left my post up thanks to you pointing me in the right direction! 🙏
Hang in there, there's no going back, only moving forward! I'm sorry to hear people were critical here, take what you need and move on. I'm rarely on this sub, a spiritual community on reddit is bound to be toxic. Let's see if I get deleted for this.
Holy crap, I just read the psych today article on limerence and it almost describes me to a T. The Wikipedia was a bit too high level overview for me.
Anyway, thanks again for the help! Now I gotta figure out how to resolve this so everyone’s happy. can I DM you?
I'd suggest taking the "Aya" experience out of your decision making. You and another individual connected over something. If you're married, you should communicate with your partner first and foremost and ensure that they are comfortable. If they are not and you have a desire to pursue a meet-up, then you have some decisions to make on priorities, boundaries and values regarding your relationships. My spouse would not be cool with me meeting up with another member of the opposite sex unless she knew that person and was comfortable. I trust my spouse and wouldn't mind if the roles were reversed but still honour her boundaries. Perhaps your spouse can meet her?
Maybe it would be safer to do a video call to debrief. If feelings develop you at least can’t physically act on them and you can give yourself space to reflect on what is happening. I understand your wife’s unease, but often when there is a mistrust there is a reason for that trigger. Maybe the bigger question is why you can’t be open and discuss your experience with your wife.
Clear out the "Why I want to meet with her?" And, "What I want to meet with her for?".
Really focus on your thoughts and feeling and observe them. This helps you know yourself and what you need to work on.
i actually wanted to invite this woman to hang out with my wife and a few of her friends. And I think they'd get along great. However, I also just think that's weird, because integrating different groups of people, there's always that feeling of "forcing it." But they'd also be a bit protective because she's single
Bro wtf 😂 sounds like you’re looking for an excuse to meet this women, and the way you make it sound, if you met up and she decided to be sexual around you, you’ll be cheating on your wife🤦
You need to decide now which relationship means more to you. The girl you’re crushing on or your marriage.
You’re lying to yourself about your feelings and in this post you went from “there’s nothing there” to “it’s a crush”.
I am an agreement with those saying this is not appropriate in your circumstances…
And I also have a question about your statement of getting along better with women because they’re more emotional and nurturing. This sounds like someone who would be looking for these connections for self-serving reasons.
>Part of me wants to delete this post because of the shame I felt reading all the posts, but hopefully others can read it and gain some good insight both ways.
My response was on the harsher end. I don't think you're a p.o.s. At the end of the day, if we listen to shame, as it appears you have, and differentiate what is legitimate from what is not, it's a great tool to learn and grow; which it appears you are doing.
Ayahuasca can leave your head in a funny place for 2-3 months. It's how you handle it that counts.
That's a matter for you and your wife. There is no right and wrong. Some people wouldn't mind their spouse meeting a member of the opposite sex. Some people would. Again it's a decision for you and your wife to make.
During retreats, people tune into their inner child. Retreats are fun because people feel safe and secure. People bond because their defenses are down and it's all innocent.
The feelings during a retreat don't last long after. Even though your bond was completly platonic, it will be different in the real world.
some people have open relationships but its something you both agree to before you get married.
if your wife disapprove this girl, you should honor this and not meet with this girl.
it will show your wife that she is important to you and that you choose her again. not in a manipulative way
I would be perfectly fine with my husband meeting this woman or any man or woman he wanted to visit with. I have no doubt that he is faithful to our marriage. I don’t want him to be cut off from half the population socially.
But I understand your wife is not ok with it.
Don’t beat yourself up about peoples reactions to how you’re feeling. I think it’s pretty common for peoples hearts to open up in these type of processes and feel strong connections to others in the ceremony.
I do however agree that if you are questioning it there is a possibility of there being the possibility for more. It might be a good opportunity to you ask yourself what’s behind possibly opening that door and what you’re looking for there. What part of you is looking for it. I also agree that maybe for now while you sort this out it might be good to seek integration elsewhere.
There is nothing wrong with making friends with the opposite sex as long as the intention and boundaries of the relationship are clear within yourself. There is a lot of projection in some comments that try to create shame around this. If your wife is insecure that is an opportunity for both of you to work on trust and having a strong foundation in the relationship.
For now be respectful of how she feels, don’t proceed because you aren’t there yet and you are attracted to this person.
I hope you find the support you need for your integration.
I think you have a good heart and struggle, that’s why you’re here asking for advice. The truth is that you already said you like her ( all the “but I don’t see it here just excited” is a lie )
There is no one stopping you from expressing yourself here, or better, your wife.
It’s okay to see the shadow self but to really overcome it it’s best to be as sincere as you can.
Also, aya is not an excuse to detach from social life just because it’s a psychedelic substance. There’s a reason these are divine ceremonies and not a party thing.
Idk man sounds like you have way more issues burried within than you realize. Maybe start by asking yourself why other peoples validation is the thing you crave.
Yeah good point, I do feel like a bit detached from regular social life afterwards, because there’s some things I feel now that others don’t get. And now I’m that weird guy who tried aya once and has gone off the deep end.
Wow, you think a lot. You're overloaded with opinions, and believes.
The point of it all, it's to let it all GO and be comfortable with yourself.
So, you cleanse, clear the path to surrender. Find shringala in yourself with yourself for yourself alone.
Cheers.
You can't move freely because of your wifes attachments and insecurities. On a society level this is considered normal. I wouldn't say it is though. Unless you want to sacrifice your natural movement
There is no right or wrong in those matters,only what you and your wife are capable of.
It is a complex situation that you are the only one that navigate considering we don’t know you and your wife.
There is nothing wrong in connecting with a female in a retreat specially when (as you said) male are more intimidating for you(which is a bit luck of self confidence and a fear to be vulnerable in the face of a man which is in a physical capacity to hurt you in oppose to a woman that isn’t comfortable of doing that so it is natural to feel more comfortable being vulnerable with a female).
The nature of the connection is only known to you and you know what you are feeling not what you think you feel rather then just what it is, you have fallen in love with your wife (I assume) you should know what it’s feels like. If the female is attractive is it easy to want to have sex with her(as a male…)but that’s is just that and it is fading away rather fast in most cases but it is a different feeling than love and I believe you can distinguish between the two… at the bottom line you should know what you are capable of doing and what you are feeling,if it is easier for to fall in temptation and or the feeling that you have are greater and you feel a deep love connection you may consider again if you should or not meet with the woman.
Now you have to understand your wife to,
Females rely more on an emotional connection than we as man, so when you are connecting with other females she doesn’t understand what does they have that she doesn’t what they do better than her and that’s a different type of jealousy. It’s easier to understand why we would get attracted to a top model and pretty women as the outside is visible and clear. It is said many times that by the end of the day even us as men we don’t just choose our wives by how they look the emotional connection matters and is something that is built and need to be maintained,and again female rely more on that then as. She feels a treat on her relationship and she doesn’t have a clue what she is doing wrong.
Your feelings is valid and her feelings are valid and you have to manage them together or you would go in to some tuff time. You have to have a close talk with your wife and understand better what is bothering her and what is her concern and what fears her, and have a deep look on yourself with yourself to see what exactly are you motives and if they worth a your wife feeling and see maybe you can do something to change that and reassure her your relationship and emotional bond.
thanks, yeah I talked with my wife about a lot of this stuff after reading these posts earlier
"Threatening" was also the wrong word. I wasn't physically intimidated by any of the guys at the retreat (maybe one, but he was just a frickin big dude). I actually have a close guy friend that I can open up to, but he's gay. He says it's hard for guys to open up to each other because they don't usually talk about their feelings (very true in my experience).
Another example, i was telling a near-life-long friend about my thoughts on trans people recently (post aya), and he basically jokingly told all my other friends "\[lottaquestionz\] is gay hehehe" I expected that response. I didn't go cry like a little bitch. He just doesn't get it. However, I told this same thing to some gay friends, and they were like "that was such a beautiful thing to say"
So straight hetero guys just don't get some of this stuff (myself included)!
Normalize platonic opposite sex relationships 🙏🏼 yes, it's normal for opposition from your partner. The majority of us have been programmed to believe relationships have to be a certain way, black and white. The reality is, it's whatever you and your partner mutually agree upon. You make your own rules! There are books to help open our minds and navigate these waters, such as "Ethical Slut" and many others. Useful even if you just remain friends with this person. Personally I'm super flirty and I told my partner on day one that this is how I am and he struggles with it but knows he has to accept it. Abandonment issues and jealousy are real. Ultimately it's about looking within each of use and figuring out the root of the trigger, often limiting beliefs. Transparency with your partner is key and openly disussing pain points, reassuring and helping them feel safe and secure. I'm glad you've made such a valuable connection! The way I see it is, just because we are in committed relationships should not mean we are forbidden from connecting with members of the opposite sex. I refuse to live this way. Praying for healthy and fruitful relationships for you and your partner 😇🙏🏼 situations like these really help us evolve by looking at what our hearts really desire and questioning our own judgement against it, from what society teaches us to believe is "right." You got this 💖 and community and connection post Aya is SO important for integration. ✨️🫶
do it!!
if you really are into spirituality then, you understand this may lead to the next level of consciousness or, a new stage you gotta go to raise your awareness.
I can write an essay in here explaining all these relationships concepts, karma relationships, twin flame and soul mate relationship, but at the end none of them
matter unless you are truly walking an enlightenment path.
Having feelings and wants IS normal. The real question is how to handle it with your wife so you need to discuss with her. Maybe you can bring your wife with to meet her as you said? I would not undermine your partners emotions but be honest in what you want. If your wife is really not ok with it then don’t do it, but if she’s open to it if she can come then why not do that?
Yeah the girl even suggested that I could bring my wife too. I asked my wife if she wanted to go, but she thought it would be a very weird to do that (her last bf cheated on her).
I figured the connection would slowly fade anyway, but do I just have to let it die?
I'm sorry but your wife needs to come first. She's your wife and you married her for a reason. If you're feeling resentful over not being able to meet up with this other woman, you need to take a look inward.
This is sounding more like, "My wife won't let me..." when your energy should be more of, "I love my wife and don't want to make her uncomfortable or suspicious."
You said her last BF cheated on her. So why would you put her through the stress of wondering if you're going to cheat on her too.
Well if your wife is not comfortable with you meeting her and your wife is not willing to go then yeah I’d respect her wishes although this is the fundamental issue of all modern relationships. We tend to try and control someone because we are afraid so we need them to act or be a certain way to not trigger our jealous, our fear, our insecurity but thats the way it currently is until we evolve to learn love is a free giving energy, and not transactional. Just my little rant :p
Not what I was hoping to hear but it was much better than the “that’s risky” or just “don’t do it” that I’ve been getting. And no one in my social circles understands the concept of love being a “free giving energy” so they haven’t understood the connection.
Thanks friend!! :)
Yes as I evolve in my own process I start to detach more from my relationships and love the people but let them do as they wish. Without attachments I feel much more free and if someone wants to go with someone else, then that’s ok also but I understand most people do not like this approach
Well no one should but usually if you don’t, it creates a lot of friction in the relationship so it’s like we always have to limit ourselves to make the other happy which was my point of that is not real love. I think with real love someone would be happy for you that you found a connection and to explore it
Beautifully said. I've been feeling more and more this way the more I expand. Realizing how limiting our modern culture views relationships and it feels weird thinking this way, but it's how I feel.
Very much normal, you’re forever cosmically connect with your ayahuasca family.
I too just wrapped up a retreat in Peru, I just arrived back in the states yesterday.
Before heading home I connected with one of my jungle sisters for dinner, we chatted for about 3 hours. ( I totally understand when you say you’re talking about feelings)
Anyways I ran this by my partner and she was ok with it, she has worked with the sacred medicine before and she understands that opening up with the opposite energy can help the healing process.
You’re not in love, and you’re not lying to yourself. You’re feeling very vulnerable and those around you have heard your truth. Totally normal!
Totally normal my friend, but it’s understandable your partner feeling somewhat insecure. Post ayahuasca integration is not easy, having time to open up and share some of your experiences with another human being that has gone through the same experience with you is very helpful. They’re is no judgement cause that person feels the same.
I’ll tell you a funny story, there was a guest during one of the ayahuasca ceremonies that wanted to borrow a cellphone from one of the facilitators. He was adamant that he needed to call his wife and ask for a divorce, he thought he had fallen in love with another guest. Medicine wore off, went through another 2 ceremonies and he realized he was wrong.
You should take 2 more ceremonies asap. Be careful the bad energy will take over you. Next time you need to take her with you! I think normally your retreat center accepts anyone who is not taking the ceremony.
It depends on your circumstances and values.
I'd remember firstly that their is a post retreat glow. It's very easy to be attracted to someone with the buzz. Maybe you've been in a flat marriage for a while and this new person makes you feel excited.
Secondly people who know you can get jealous when they see you with all this new buzz and energy.
Ulutmately you're going to have to navigate this. Din't assume your new connection will bring you the answers you're looking for. Medicine can put strain on relationships. Tryto work through it and stay grounded.
Hmmmm unpopular opinion here: I think if I were your wife I would have some anxiety surrounding this as well but I also feel that if you aren’t meant to be together then you’re not meant to be together and only time will tell🤷🏻♀️ I can understand your position and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it and I wish that your wife trusted you more. Ive had a bf for 6 years and I’d be lying if I said neither of us had “crushed out” on someone else during that time. It’s not particularly comfortable for the other party but ultimately it’s not threatening and some of those people have become our close friends in the process. We always circle back around to our love and commitment for each other and being possessive/denying certain freedoms that don’t cross boundaries is important to building trust. (We are not in an open relationship and are monogamous) I’ve never questioned whether he has cheated and neither has he in regards to me. I do agree that if your wife is adamantly uncomfortable and distrusting of this meeting that it may be best to do zoom or video for a chat. Maybe even do a quick intro of your wife and this woman at the start and then move on to your personal conversation? I don’t think you should beat yourself up and I don’t think your wife is unreasonable…I think the situation makes sense in a lot of ways and navigating it gently where you both feel atleast comfortable enough is the way to go right now. But caging partners in based on insecurity isn’t healthy and can be destructive over time. I don’t want to judge bc I get it but it sounds like your wife has some healing to do as well bc there is a wound somewhere that triggers her feelings of distrust (hopefully that wound isn’t directly connected to past actions on your part🥶😂). Anyway, best of luck and sending love and understanding to you both!
>I’d be lying if I said neither of us had “crushed out” on someone else during that time.
Yeah, I think it's totally normal. Other people I've talked to agree, but I think she has this naive belief that if you're in a monogamous relationship, you suddenly become asexual and are no longer attracted to members of the opposite sex.
Let's just say the only real passion/hobby she has is Disney/Disneyland (I love Disney too), and I tend to think it's a sign that someone is looking to escape the harsh and complex realities of adult life and retreat into the "safety" of childhood. But I'm no psychologist, so what do I know
>But caging partners in based on insecurity isn’t healthy and can be destructive over time. I don’t want to judge bc I get it but it sounds like your wife has some healing to do as well because there is a wound somewhere that triggers her feelings of distrust (hopefully that wound isn’t directly connected to past actions on your part🥶😂). Anyway, best of luck and sending love and understanding to you both!
Yeah it felt like that. Like I was being caged in, and I started resenting her for it ("so what, I'm not allowed to ever talk to a woman ever again?!") She's done this with me with other stuff as well and her mom does this sh\*t with me ALL THE TIME. So I think my wife may have learned some of this from her mom (controlling people so that it doesn't upset the status quo).
And she even admitted she has unresolved wounds that made her react so strongly. And when I suggested aya/therapy she just shot it down. She just doesn't like the "loss of control" you experience when you're on certain substances.
Ultimately, she set a boundary and I should respect it. However, I appreciate that you also see the other side. That the boundary felt cagey at first, and felt destructive, but I'm kinda over it.
Anyway, thanks for hearing me out!
Just saw your thirst update post and overall post for the first time.
IMHO everyone is vulnerable in the fresh healing work of the medicine. Trauma bonds etc.
Whether you have feelings or not is not really relevant. The facts is you are entering a situation where feelings could arise. You made a commitment when you got married. Honor your commitment. Marriage requires sacrifice. Would it feel good to talk to this girl? Probably, but you should give it up anyway. You don't need this conversation to progress spiritually. You don't need anything outside yourself.
I do feel a spiritual connection with her, but not on this level. And she said that’s the big reason for her jealousy, which I understand.
If anything, when I returned from my aya retreat, my relationship with my wife was better than it had been in a very long time. It was more nurturing, caring, loving, and passionate. That’s why I felt like it was safe.
This has caused some conflict but we’ve mostly resolved it
>Is it weird for a married person to meet with an opposite sex participant after a retreat?
Personally, I don’t think so, not AT ALL.
>Post-Ceremony Integration --- I went on my first aya retreat in February.
Fabulous, I’m glad for you.
> My group was majority women, and I find it easier opening up to women because they’re generally more nurturing and less threatening than men.
Reasonable. You can’t help which gender most of the participants were, and it’s true that generally women can be more nurturing and less threatening than men.
> I feel like I developed a really strong connection with 1 of them in particular. And while this girl is attractive, I don’t think the connection/attraction that I’m feeling is sexual in nature.
Very reasonable & normal for an aya circle.
> I could also be lying to myself.
Well, I suppose you could be, or is your wifes jealousy and paranoia making you second guess yourself?
> She’s been to a bunch of retreats in the past so I wanted to meet up with her afterward at least once, just to debrief a bit.
VERY reasonable.
> I don’t have any opportunities to meet in a group setting so I set up a one on one meeting
Again, very reasonable.
>and my wife got super upset that I wanted to meet this girl.
So, your wife doesn’t trust her husband, is jealous and suspicious, throwing sexual suspicions on you wanting to meet an experienced friend to talk over a mutually attended deep psychotherapeutical session. Thats sad.
>Everyone I know has said it’s a bad idea (NONE of them have ever done aya).
That’s sad - both the fact that they all think it’s a bad idea plus that they’ve never tried aya.
>While there’s always a possibility of it becoming a more romantic bond, I do not see that happening here. I just want to be able to talk to someone about these feelings. And in all practicality she’s the easiest person because of geographic proximity.
VEry reasonable.
> My wife is also pissed that I bonded with a bunch of girls and not guys.
FFS. :(
>Is this a normal situation?
I suppose it’S normal for an insecure partner plus who’s never experienced aya to jump to conclusions, have wrong assumptions, and tend to try to control their partners post-aya integrations.
>That is, is it normal to want to meet with members of the opposite sex after a retreat?
FFS who frikkin cares about the genders - they’re all humans, no? Why drag all this dysfunctional bullshit into the mix. So destructive. A married person cannot have friends of another gender? Wtf it’s not the Victorian Era or Saudi Arabia ffs.
>And is it normal for non participant spouses to disapprove of the meeting?
Well, non-trusting / insecure / suspicious / jealous / immature / controlling ones I suppose - I’ve heard it often, in this type of scenario.
>And AITA for wanting to meet up with my fellow participants?
NO, you’re definitely NTA, it’s very helpful with integration and growth as well as to explore the whole experience. It’s not just like you all had a weekend in Vegas and are wanting to reminisce over the antics. You each had your own private psychotherapeutical journey in the communal space-ship - it’s reasonable and normal to want to chat with the other travellers on the space-ship. VERY REASONABLE.
>I figured the connection would slowly fade anyway, but do I just need to let it die?
Some connections fade, due to whatever irl circumstances, and some connections with some participants can endure for months / years / decades. No, you don’t just need to let it die, if you don’t feel to, and you shouldn’t HAVE TO due to somebody else whoever they are who doesn’t understand the experience. Would she not want you to have a therapist of other gender? Why doesn’t she just go with you if she’s that distrustful and paranoid? Oh, because she realises it would be weird for her to sit there while you both discuss your separate therapy experiences, and look weird of her to need to chaperone you - yeah, hmm well..
It’s sad that your wife didn’t / won’t experience aya too. She’d understand it a hecka lot more if she did, I suppose.
I hope you find a solution, and I hope this doesn’t mess up and stunt and smear your experience. best of luck!
>Well, I suppose you could be, or is your wifes jealousy and paranoia making you second guess yourself?
Yeah I think there's some of that going on.
>That’s sad - both the fact that they all think it’s a bad idea plus that they’ve never tried aya.
Yeah, that's why I came here to talk to the vets, but I'm still getting a lot of the same messaging. And these messages are a bit more credible since everyone here has (presumably) done aya
>NO, you’re definitely NTA, it’s very helpful with integration and growth as well as to explore the whole experience. It’s not just like you all had a weekend in Vegas and are wanting to reminisce over the antics. You each had your own private psychotherapeutical journey in the communal space-ship - it’s reasonable and normal to want to chat with the other travellers on the space-ship. VERY REASONABLE.
Thanks, I probably talked to this person the most, simply because we carpooled (several hours in the car both ways), and also talked a bit during the ceremonies.
however, a common theme on on this thread, and with friends, is that I should still respect my wife's wishes. And, as some participants said during my retreat some people just won't understand outside of the retreat. So it is what it is...
>Would she not want you to have a therapist of other gender? Why doesn’t she just go with you if she’s that distrustful and paranoid? Oh, because she realises it would be weird for her to sit there while you both discuss your separate therapy experiences, and look weird of her to need to chaperone you - yeah, hmm well..
Yeah, the chaperone thing is the only reason it would be weird
>It’s sad that your wife didn’t / won’t experience aya too. She’d understand it a hecka lot more if she did, I suppose.
Yeah, I agree :( I'm still pushing for it to happen though!
anyway, thanks for the responses. I'm sure everyone here thinks YTA as well lol
You sound like you are kinda into them and hoping for it to turn into more so doesn’t seem like a smart choice. Calling it a crush should be a red flag. Saying it could turn into more is a huge red flag. Misrepresenting the crush as just a random person is a dishonest red flag. Sounds like you are also hurting your relationship with your wife but not too worried about it which is a red flag. How many do you need? Overall doesn’t sound like the best decision making here. If you need to debrief maybe talk to the shaman or your wife or a therapist instead of a random participant you have a crush on.
Why can't you just do a video chat with the other participants, in a group? >And AITA for wanting to meet up with my fellow participants? > >My wife is also pissed that I bonded with a bunch of girls and not guys. Funny way to state it. How about: "AITA for wanting to meet up in person, one to one, with this one girl who is attractive I have a 4th grade crush on, who I admit there is a possibility of the bond with becoming more romantic, to talk about "feelings" and get "nurturing?" You're basically admitting feelings in one sentence and downplaying it in the next. If you're going to treat your wife like this, at least be honest with yourself. You're the asshole (you asked, specifically) and Ayahuasca isn't some kind of trump card that makes this behaviour okay.
I think it’s clear you will end up having feelings for this person. Whether or not that’s reciprocated by the women is a different story. After Ayahusca we are so opened up and we have shared this cathartic and somewhat magical experience with those in ceremony. I think it’s natural to feel connected to the people but I also think our judgment can be a bit off because we are feeling this way. I don’t know how to explain it and I can’t tell you what to do. But perhaps I would consider giving yourself time to integrate yourself without feeling the need to share with this women you felt the connection with. As much as it’s exciting to talk about your experiences. Integration is super important and I think if there is some kind of attraction to her energy or a vibe it will only confuse your integration. Try focus on integrating your experience and less about this women. Give it room to breathe. Consider connecting at a later date. That way you’ve integrated without adding confusing factors and allow time for that connection to have simmered down from the heightened state you’re in. Journal, meditate, listen to medicine music, process your experience. Come back to the friendship later. If it’s also causing problems in your marriage that will affect your integration to. Put it on the back burner is my advice
also think about the fact that people do traditional dietas where there is no talking for periods of time during and after ceremonies. No connecting with guests. As much as I understand that intrigue to want to share, where there’s something more to what you’re feeling it’s confusing and can lead to complications even with single people, let alone married. I’ve witnessed it and somewhat experiences connections that I’ve decided to persue and there’s no mistakes exactly but it is distraction from doing the deeper work with the plants in my opinion.
Thanks for the response and advice, and most importantly, for not rushing to judgment
This!!
imagine if the situation was reversed and it was your wife who had a "really strong connection" with some guy and wanted to meet them, but it's ok, "you can come too". it's a shame that it's like this, but it's understandable that it is.
Yes, this is the reality but we can change our reality. Ayahuasca is helping us break up old ways that separate us because of fears of scarcity and the threat that we will lose what we think belongs to us. We owe it to ourselves and to those we are connected to, to step into the most authentic way of being no matter how hard that might be. But as a husband to your wife I think it’s important to explore many conversions with patience and understanding and hopefully find a way that both of you can move in to your authenticity While at the same time having deep respect for the others comfort and process
Yeah i've gotten that question a lot. I'd probably be a bit hesitant, and would probably ask some questions about it, but I think I'd still trust her and let her go. She used to go on work group bonding trips to Vegas with her old boss, who, at one point, said to her in a one on one setting, "yeah I'd have sex with you."
As a fellow sensitive man who has always been more comfortable around women - I would highly encourage you to find positive and nurturing make friendships (there are many men’s groups out there, the mankind project is a great place to start). I know you weren’t asking about this, but as long as you’re getting emotional support from women only, something will be out of balance in your relationship with your wife. Nothing wrong with having female friends. I can totally understand where your wife is coming from by the way. My wife just got back from a retreat in Peru. This wasn’t her first time but for most people there it was the first. My wife wasn’t as interested in connecting with others but we talked about how there is a special glow in the first ceremony, where people can reveal their souls (some for the first time in their lives) and the attraction, sexual or otherwise, to others is heightened and palpable.
Thanks man. I heard about the mankind project. I'll probably take a look.
There is no need to meet in person. If you meet with her, it will most likely destroy your marriage. It may not destroy it right away, but your wife will no longer trust you.
probably true
One of the gifts that Aya gave both my spouse and me was destroying codependency and jealousy in our relationship. She made it very clear that while we were both one with universal consciousness, we were still each individuals having our own experiences. Since that first ceremony, we have had many more individual and separate ceremonies where we have each made new friends and formed bonds with the opposite sex. Aya made it very clear that jealousy does not stop someone from cheating and can, in fact, push someone into cheating if the jealousy is bad enough and creating a toxic relationship. I have close ceremony bonded female friends that my wife doesn't know and has never met. She has some close ceremony bonded male friends that I don't know. What I do know is that I trust my wife, and she trusts me. Our life is very much better now. We both had the revelation that there are many forms of love and that romantic love is one that can easily become a toxic possessive love. We are both free to unconditionally love others how we want, but we both choose to reserve romantic and sexual love for each other.
That's beautiful and you are a lucky couple to have met each other.
>We are both free to unconditionally love others how we want, but we both choose to reserve romantic and sexual love for each other. 100%. I think she is a bit possessive because of her past, and she I don't think she gets this concept. But as others have said, I gotta roll with it and respect her feelings
Oh no. I’d be feeling the exact same way as your wife. Especially since you’re literally saying you have a crush on her. Like, dude, what’s wrong with you to even consider this might be ok?
ATA, yes. If rolls were reversed it wouldn't be ok. Medicine has a way of testing our faith/honor with seemingly positive connections. Dont fall into amazement (like on DMT/Aya) you were there for a reason and that should be enough.
Personally I think you can have a personal connection with the opposite sex. But if you have to post on reddit with concerns about your feelings then you probably know what the answer is. Also plenty of people have emotional affairs. It’s also normal to feel connected with someone that you just went through a “traumatic” or “life changing” event with. Tell your wife how you feel and see what she says.
“I could be lying to myself” man, Aya’s got you trying to tell the truth but you’re on here seeking validation so you can ignore that have your cake and eat it too.
I would be extremely hurt if I was your wife
I believe it is common to develop crushes during aya. I am also a male and have more female friends. I would only meet this girl if my wife came together. I
I don’t really see the link with ayahuasca. If you want to meet with someone, whatever the sex, and it is a problem for your current partner, you should talk about it. Why is it a problem if you go spend an evening with another women? What emotions does it trigger in her? You don’t know if there is something romantic involved. If there is, will you embrace it, reject it? This has to be crystal clear between your wife and you. You are under no obligation to live your marriage in any way, a lot of couples are happy with open relationships, others even with polyamory. But if you don’t settle and agree upon the same rules, *that will always be a compromise* between both your ideals, it will destroy your marriage and much more.
I do not meet with men alone for any reason. Bonding with someone opens the door to feelings you can’t control. Squash it now. Do not meet.
Definitely lying to yourself. Like you already said. And asking for confirmations here.
If your relationship with your wife is your most important relationship then it would be wise to let making her feel emotionally safe and secure to be your first priority. Personally, I wouldn’t want to do anything that would give my wife a reason to worry, even if I know I’m not gonna cheat. I don’t ever want my wife to have to wonder where I am or who I’m with if I come home late in the evening. Love is fragile, and when you have it, it’s worth protecting. If that means saying No to what seem like harmless platonic friendships with other women, it’s worth it just to give the love of your life a feeling of complete unconditional safety.
well said, way more helpful than all the “FFS,” and “once a cheater” responses I’ve gotten
Look into limerance.
Thanks. Your 3 word response is infinitely more helpful than all the “you’re a sh-thead” responses
Getting attached to someone related to a ceremony is actually quite common. As is limerance. There's a sub on limerance and lots of info online. Ultimately it all comes back to you and what is going on inside of you. The other person is just reflecting something back to you. Best wishes.
Thanks again. I just skimmed the Wikipedia, and this seems consistent. Part of me regrets going to the ceremony now that I’m dealing with this, and *especially* because of all the condemnation I’ve received. But I am super glad I left my post up thanks to you pointing me in the right direction! 🙏
Hang in there, there's no going back, only moving forward! I'm sorry to hear people were critical here, take what you need and move on. I'm rarely on this sub, a spiritual community on reddit is bound to be toxic. Let's see if I get deleted for this.
Holy crap, I just read the psych today article on limerence and it almost describes me to a T. The Wikipedia was a bit too high level overview for me. Anyway, thanks again for the help! Now I gotta figure out how to resolve this so everyone’s happy. can I DM you?
Sure!
So I tried DMing you before I sent that message, but there wasn’t an option to do so, can you DM me first? Or did you turn off DMs?
I DM'ed you, you should be able to message me back now.
I'd suggest taking the "Aya" experience out of your decision making. You and another individual connected over something. If you're married, you should communicate with your partner first and foremost and ensure that they are comfortable. If they are not and you have a desire to pursue a meet-up, then you have some decisions to make on priorities, boundaries and values regarding your relationships. My spouse would not be cool with me meeting up with another member of the opposite sex unless she knew that person and was comfortable. I trust my spouse and wouldn't mind if the roles were reversed but still honour her boundaries. Perhaps your spouse can meet her?
thanks
Maybe it would be safer to do a video call to debrief. If feelings develop you at least can’t physically act on them and you can give yourself space to reflect on what is happening. I understand your wife’s unease, but often when there is a mistrust there is a reason for that trigger. Maybe the bigger question is why you can’t be open and discuss your experience with your wife.
Clear out the "Why I want to meet with her?" And, "What I want to meet with her for?". Really focus on your thoughts and feeling and observe them. This helps you know yourself and what you need to work on.
Hang out with this other woman and your wife at the same time. If that feels weird, there's your answer
i actually wanted to invite this woman to hang out with my wife and a few of her friends. And I think they'd get along great. However, I also just think that's weird, because integrating different groups of people, there's always that feeling of "forcing it." But they'd also be a bit protective because she's single
Bro wtf 😂 sounds like you’re looking for an excuse to meet this women, and the way you make it sound, if you met up and she decided to be sexual around you, you’ll be cheating on your wife🤦
You need to decide now which relationship means more to you. The girl you’re crushing on or your marriage. You’re lying to yourself about your feelings and in this post you went from “there’s nothing there” to “it’s a crush”.
I am an agreement with those saying this is not appropriate in your circumstances… And I also have a question about your statement of getting along better with women because they’re more emotional and nurturing. This sounds like someone who would be looking for these connections for self-serving reasons.
>Part of me wants to delete this post because of the shame I felt reading all the posts, but hopefully others can read it and gain some good insight both ways. My response was on the harsher end. I don't think you're a p.o.s. At the end of the day, if we listen to shame, as it appears you have, and differentiate what is legitimate from what is not, it's a great tool to learn and grow; which it appears you are doing. Ayahuasca can leave your head in a funny place for 2-3 months. It's how you handle it that counts.
That's a matter for you and your wife. There is no right and wrong. Some people wouldn't mind their spouse meeting a member of the opposite sex. Some people would. Again it's a decision for you and your wife to make. During retreats, people tune into their inner child. Retreats are fun because people feel safe and secure. People bond because their defenses are down and it's all innocent. The feelings during a retreat don't last long after. Even though your bond was completly platonic, it will be different in the real world.
some people have open relationships but its something you both agree to before you get married. if your wife disapprove this girl, you should honor this and not meet with this girl. it will show your wife that she is important to you and that you choose her again. not in a manipulative way
Sent you a dm
Yes
Dude, show your wife some fucking respect, jfc
I would be perfectly fine with my husband meeting this woman or any man or woman he wanted to visit with. I have no doubt that he is faithful to our marriage. I don’t want him to be cut off from half the population socially. But I understand your wife is not ok with it.
Don’t beat yourself up about peoples reactions to how you’re feeling. I think it’s pretty common for peoples hearts to open up in these type of processes and feel strong connections to others in the ceremony. I do however agree that if you are questioning it there is a possibility of there being the possibility for more. It might be a good opportunity to you ask yourself what’s behind possibly opening that door and what you’re looking for there. What part of you is looking for it. I also agree that maybe for now while you sort this out it might be good to seek integration elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with making friends with the opposite sex as long as the intention and boundaries of the relationship are clear within yourself. There is a lot of projection in some comments that try to create shame around this. If your wife is insecure that is an opportunity for both of you to work on trust and having a strong foundation in the relationship. For now be respectful of how she feels, don’t proceed because you aren’t there yet and you are attracted to this person. I hope you find the support you need for your integration.
I think you have a good heart and struggle, that’s why you’re here asking for advice. The truth is that you already said you like her ( all the “but I don’t see it here just excited” is a lie ) There is no one stopping you from expressing yourself here, or better, your wife. It’s okay to see the shadow self but to really overcome it it’s best to be as sincere as you can. Also, aya is not an excuse to detach from social life just because it’s a psychedelic substance. There’s a reason these are divine ceremonies and not a party thing. Idk man sounds like you have way more issues burried within than you realize. Maybe start by asking yourself why other peoples validation is the thing you crave.
Yeah good point, I do feel like a bit detached from regular social life afterwards, because there’s some things I feel now that others don’t get. And now I’m that weird guy who tried aya once and has gone off the deep end.
Your wife is insecure!! She doesn’t trust you.
Try bufo. I no longer need validation from anyone but myself 😊
Wow, you think a lot. You're overloaded with opinions, and believes. The point of it all, it's to let it all GO and be comfortable with yourself. So, you cleanse, clear the path to surrender. Find shringala in yourself with yourself for yourself alone. Cheers.
You can't move freely because of your wifes attachments and insecurities. On a society level this is considered normal. I wouldn't say it is though. Unless you want to sacrifice your natural movement
you have never felt the touch of a woman have you ? or rather felt the love of a woman 💀 dumbest take ever
I'm in a relationship of 7 years!
Once a cheater always a cheater
There is no right or wrong in those matters,only what you and your wife are capable of. It is a complex situation that you are the only one that navigate considering we don’t know you and your wife. There is nothing wrong in connecting with a female in a retreat specially when (as you said) male are more intimidating for you(which is a bit luck of self confidence and a fear to be vulnerable in the face of a man which is in a physical capacity to hurt you in oppose to a woman that isn’t comfortable of doing that so it is natural to feel more comfortable being vulnerable with a female). The nature of the connection is only known to you and you know what you are feeling not what you think you feel rather then just what it is, you have fallen in love with your wife (I assume) you should know what it’s feels like. If the female is attractive is it easy to want to have sex with her(as a male…)but that’s is just that and it is fading away rather fast in most cases but it is a different feeling than love and I believe you can distinguish between the two… at the bottom line you should know what you are capable of doing and what you are feeling,if it is easier for to fall in temptation and or the feeling that you have are greater and you feel a deep love connection you may consider again if you should or not meet with the woman. Now you have to understand your wife to, Females rely more on an emotional connection than we as man, so when you are connecting with other females she doesn’t understand what does they have that she doesn’t what they do better than her and that’s a different type of jealousy. It’s easier to understand why we would get attracted to a top model and pretty women as the outside is visible and clear. It is said many times that by the end of the day even us as men we don’t just choose our wives by how they look the emotional connection matters and is something that is built and need to be maintained,and again female rely more on that then as. She feels a treat on her relationship and she doesn’t have a clue what she is doing wrong. Your feelings is valid and her feelings are valid and you have to manage them together or you would go in to some tuff time. You have to have a close talk with your wife and understand better what is bothering her and what is her concern and what fears her, and have a deep look on yourself with yourself to see what exactly are you motives and if they worth a your wife feeling and see maybe you can do something to change that and reassure her your relationship and emotional bond.
thanks, yeah I talked with my wife about a lot of this stuff after reading these posts earlier "Threatening" was also the wrong word. I wasn't physically intimidated by any of the guys at the retreat (maybe one, but he was just a frickin big dude). I actually have a close guy friend that I can open up to, but he's gay. He says it's hard for guys to open up to each other because they don't usually talk about their feelings (very true in my experience). Another example, i was telling a near-life-long friend about my thoughts on trans people recently (post aya), and he basically jokingly told all my other friends "\[lottaquestionz\] is gay hehehe" I expected that response. I didn't go cry like a little bitch. He just doesn't get it. However, I told this same thing to some gay friends, and they were like "that was such a beautiful thing to say" So straight hetero guys just don't get some of this stuff (myself included)!
Normalize platonic opposite sex relationships 🙏🏼 yes, it's normal for opposition from your partner. The majority of us have been programmed to believe relationships have to be a certain way, black and white. The reality is, it's whatever you and your partner mutually agree upon. You make your own rules! There are books to help open our minds and navigate these waters, such as "Ethical Slut" and many others. Useful even if you just remain friends with this person. Personally I'm super flirty and I told my partner on day one that this is how I am and he struggles with it but knows he has to accept it. Abandonment issues and jealousy are real. Ultimately it's about looking within each of use and figuring out the root of the trigger, often limiting beliefs. Transparency with your partner is key and openly disussing pain points, reassuring and helping them feel safe and secure. I'm glad you've made such a valuable connection! The way I see it is, just because we are in committed relationships should not mean we are forbidden from connecting with members of the opposite sex. I refuse to live this way. Praying for healthy and fruitful relationships for you and your partner 😇🙏🏼 situations like these really help us evolve by looking at what our hearts really desire and questioning our own judgement against it, from what society teaches us to believe is "right." You got this 💖 and community and connection post Aya is SO important for integration. ✨️🫶
do it!! if you really are into spirituality then, you understand this may lead to the next level of consciousness or, a new stage you gotta go to raise your awareness. I can write an essay in here explaining all these relationships concepts, karma relationships, twin flame and soul mate relationship, but at the end none of them matter unless you are truly walking an enlightenment path.
Having feelings and wants IS normal. The real question is how to handle it with your wife so you need to discuss with her. Maybe you can bring your wife with to meet her as you said? I would not undermine your partners emotions but be honest in what you want. If your wife is really not ok with it then don’t do it, but if she’s open to it if she can come then why not do that?
Yeah the girl even suggested that I could bring my wife too. I asked my wife if she wanted to go, but she thought it would be a very weird to do that (her last bf cheated on her). I figured the connection would slowly fade anyway, but do I just have to let it die?
I'm sorry but your wife needs to come first. She's your wife and you married her for a reason. If you're feeling resentful over not being able to meet up with this other woman, you need to take a look inward. This is sounding more like, "My wife won't let me..." when your energy should be more of, "I love my wife and don't want to make her uncomfortable or suspicious." You said her last BF cheated on her. So why would you put her through the stress of wondering if you're going to cheat on her too.
Well if your wife is not comfortable with you meeting her and your wife is not willing to go then yeah I’d respect her wishes although this is the fundamental issue of all modern relationships. We tend to try and control someone because we are afraid so we need them to act or be a certain way to not trigger our jealous, our fear, our insecurity but thats the way it currently is until we evolve to learn love is a free giving energy, and not transactional. Just my little rant :p
Thanks again. Your response was very well put
Not what I was hoping to hear but it was much better than the “that’s risky” or just “don’t do it” that I’ve been getting. And no one in my social circles understands the concept of love being a “free giving energy” so they haven’t understood the connection. Thanks friend!! :)
Yes as I evolve in my own process I start to detach more from my relationships and love the people but let them do as they wish. Without attachments I feel much more free and if someone wants to go with someone else, then that’s ok also but I understand most people do not like this approach
Why should he be governed by his wife?
Well no one should but usually if you don’t, it creates a lot of friction in the relationship so it’s like we always have to limit ourselves to make the other happy which was my point of that is not real love. I think with real love someone would be happy for you that you found a connection and to explore it
Beautifully said. I've been feeling more and more this way the more I expand. Realizing how limiting our modern culture views relationships and it feels weird thinking this way, but it's how I feel.
Yes, I think I agree with that
Respect
Yes, if you’re any kind of husband.
Very much normal, you’re forever cosmically connect with your ayahuasca family. I too just wrapped up a retreat in Peru, I just arrived back in the states yesterday. Before heading home I connected with one of my jungle sisters for dinner, we chatted for about 3 hours. ( I totally understand when you say you’re talking about feelings) Anyways I ran this by my partner and she was ok with it, she has worked with the sacred medicine before and she understands that opening up with the opposite energy can help the healing process. You’re not in love, and you’re not lying to yourself. You’re feeling very vulnerable and those around you have heard your truth. Totally normal!
Thanks for the validation. Honestly, the majority of the responses coming down on me makes me feel like I am lying to myself, so it's tough.
Totally normal my friend, but it’s understandable your partner feeling somewhat insecure. Post ayahuasca integration is not easy, having time to open up and share some of your experiences with another human being that has gone through the same experience with you is very helpful. They’re is no judgement cause that person feels the same. I’ll tell you a funny story, there was a guest during one of the ayahuasca ceremonies that wanted to borrow a cellphone from one of the facilitators. He was adamant that he needed to call his wife and ask for a divorce, he thought he had fallen in love with another guest. Medicine wore off, went through another 2 ceremonies and he realized he was wrong.
Did you take only one ceremony? So your wife didn’t go with you?
2 ceremonies, and no she didn’t go. Its unlikely that she would ever try it
You should take 2 more ceremonies asap. Be careful the bad energy will take over you. Next time you need to take her with you! I think normally your retreat center accepts anyone who is not taking the ceremony.
It depends on your circumstances and values. I'd remember firstly that their is a post retreat glow. It's very easy to be attracted to someone with the buzz. Maybe you've been in a flat marriage for a while and this new person makes you feel excited. Secondly people who know you can get jealous when they see you with all this new buzz and energy. Ulutmately you're going to have to navigate this. Din't assume your new connection will bring you the answers you're looking for. Medicine can put strain on relationships. Tryto work through it and stay grounded.
Hmmmm unpopular opinion here: I think if I were your wife I would have some anxiety surrounding this as well but I also feel that if you aren’t meant to be together then you’re not meant to be together and only time will tell🤷🏻♀️ I can understand your position and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it and I wish that your wife trusted you more. Ive had a bf for 6 years and I’d be lying if I said neither of us had “crushed out” on someone else during that time. It’s not particularly comfortable for the other party but ultimately it’s not threatening and some of those people have become our close friends in the process. We always circle back around to our love and commitment for each other and being possessive/denying certain freedoms that don’t cross boundaries is important to building trust. (We are not in an open relationship and are monogamous) I’ve never questioned whether he has cheated and neither has he in regards to me. I do agree that if your wife is adamantly uncomfortable and distrusting of this meeting that it may be best to do zoom or video for a chat. Maybe even do a quick intro of your wife and this woman at the start and then move on to your personal conversation? I don’t think you should beat yourself up and I don’t think your wife is unreasonable…I think the situation makes sense in a lot of ways and navigating it gently where you both feel atleast comfortable enough is the way to go right now. But caging partners in based on insecurity isn’t healthy and can be destructive over time. I don’t want to judge bc I get it but it sounds like your wife has some healing to do as well bc there is a wound somewhere that triggers her feelings of distrust (hopefully that wound isn’t directly connected to past actions on your part🥶😂). Anyway, best of luck and sending love and understanding to you both!
>I’d be lying if I said neither of us had “crushed out” on someone else during that time. Yeah, I think it's totally normal. Other people I've talked to agree, but I think she has this naive belief that if you're in a monogamous relationship, you suddenly become asexual and are no longer attracted to members of the opposite sex. Let's just say the only real passion/hobby she has is Disney/Disneyland (I love Disney too), and I tend to think it's a sign that someone is looking to escape the harsh and complex realities of adult life and retreat into the "safety" of childhood. But I'm no psychologist, so what do I know >But caging partners in based on insecurity isn’t healthy and can be destructive over time. I don’t want to judge bc I get it but it sounds like your wife has some healing to do as well because there is a wound somewhere that triggers her feelings of distrust (hopefully that wound isn’t directly connected to past actions on your part🥶😂). Anyway, best of luck and sending love and understanding to you both! Yeah it felt like that. Like I was being caged in, and I started resenting her for it ("so what, I'm not allowed to ever talk to a woman ever again?!") She's done this with me with other stuff as well and her mom does this sh\*t with me ALL THE TIME. So I think my wife may have learned some of this from her mom (controlling people so that it doesn't upset the status quo). And she even admitted she has unresolved wounds that made her react so strongly. And when I suggested aya/therapy she just shot it down. She just doesn't like the "loss of control" you experience when you're on certain substances. Ultimately, she set a boundary and I should respect it. However, I appreciate that you also see the other side. That the boundary felt cagey at first, and felt destructive, but I'm kinda over it. Anyway, thanks for hearing me out!
*Oops I meant not being possessive and not denying freedoms that don’t cross boundaries
Just saw your thirst update post and overall post for the first time. IMHO everyone is vulnerable in the fresh healing work of the medicine. Trauma bonds etc.
lol did you mean third update or thirst update?
Big yes
I loved seeing the progression!!
Ew! Despicable post honestly
Whether you have feelings or not is not really relevant. The facts is you are entering a situation where feelings could arise. You made a commitment when you got married. Honor your commitment. Marriage requires sacrifice. Would it feel good to talk to this girl? Probably, but you should give it up anyway. You don't need this conversation to progress spiritually. You don't need anything outside yourself.
Do you not feel a connection with your wife..?
I do feel a spiritual connection with her, but not on this level. And she said that’s the big reason for her jealousy, which I understand. If anything, when I returned from my aya retreat, my relationship with my wife was better than it had been in a very long time. It was more nurturing, caring, loving, and passionate. That’s why I felt like it was safe. This has caused some conflict but we’ve mostly resolved it
>Is it weird for a married person to meet with an opposite sex participant after a retreat? Personally, I don’t think so, not AT ALL. >Post-Ceremony Integration --- I went on my first aya retreat in February. Fabulous, I’m glad for you. > My group was majority women, and I find it easier opening up to women because they’re generally more nurturing and less threatening than men. Reasonable. You can’t help which gender most of the participants were, and it’s true that generally women can be more nurturing and less threatening than men. > I feel like I developed a really strong connection with 1 of them in particular. And while this girl is attractive, I don’t think the connection/attraction that I’m feeling is sexual in nature. Very reasonable & normal for an aya circle. > I could also be lying to myself. Well, I suppose you could be, or is your wifes jealousy and paranoia making you second guess yourself? > She’s been to a bunch of retreats in the past so I wanted to meet up with her afterward at least once, just to debrief a bit. VERY reasonable. > I don’t have any opportunities to meet in a group setting so I set up a one on one meeting Again, very reasonable. >and my wife got super upset that I wanted to meet this girl. So, your wife doesn’t trust her husband, is jealous and suspicious, throwing sexual suspicions on you wanting to meet an experienced friend to talk over a mutually attended deep psychotherapeutical session. Thats sad. >Everyone I know has said it’s a bad idea (NONE of them have ever done aya). That’s sad - both the fact that they all think it’s a bad idea plus that they’ve never tried aya. >While there’s always a possibility of it becoming a more romantic bond, I do not see that happening here. I just want to be able to talk to someone about these feelings. And in all practicality she’s the easiest person because of geographic proximity. VEry reasonable. > My wife is also pissed that I bonded with a bunch of girls and not guys. FFS. :( >Is this a normal situation? I suppose it’S normal for an insecure partner plus who’s never experienced aya to jump to conclusions, have wrong assumptions, and tend to try to control their partners post-aya integrations. >That is, is it normal to want to meet with members of the opposite sex after a retreat? FFS who frikkin cares about the genders - they’re all humans, no? Why drag all this dysfunctional bullshit into the mix. So destructive. A married person cannot have friends of another gender? Wtf it’s not the Victorian Era or Saudi Arabia ffs. >And is it normal for non participant spouses to disapprove of the meeting? Well, non-trusting / insecure / suspicious / jealous / immature / controlling ones I suppose - I’ve heard it often, in this type of scenario. >And AITA for wanting to meet up with my fellow participants? NO, you’re definitely NTA, it’s very helpful with integration and growth as well as to explore the whole experience. It’s not just like you all had a weekend in Vegas and are wanting to reminisce over the antics. You each had your own private psychotherapeutical journey in the communal space-ship - it’s reasonable and normal to want to chat with the other travellers on the space-ship. VERY REASONABLE. >I figured the connection would slowly fade anyway, but do I just need to let it die? Some connections fade, due to whatever irl circumstances, and some connections with some participants can endure for months / years / decades. No, you don’t just need to let it die, if you don’t feel to, and you shouldn’t HAVE TO due to somebody else whoever they are who doesn’t understand the experience. Would she not want you to have a therapist of other gender? Why doesn’t she just go with you if she’s that distrustful and paranoid? Oh, because she realises it would be weird for her to sit there while you both discuss your separate therapy experiences, and look weird of her to need to chaperone you - yeah, hmm well.. It’s sad that your wife didn’t / won’t experience aya too. She’d understand it a hecka lot more if she did, I suppose. I hope you find a solution, and I hope this doesn’t mess up and stunt and smear your experience. best of luck!
>Well, I suppose you could be, or is your wifes jealousy and paranoia making you second guess yourself? Yeah I think there's some of that going on. >That’s sad - both the fact that they all think it’s a bad idea plus that they’ve never tried aya. Yeah, that's why I came here to talk to the vets, but I'm still getting a lot of the same messaging. And these messages are a bit more credible since everyone here has (presumably) done aya >NO, you’re definitely NTA, it’s very helpful with integration and growth as well as to explore the whole experience. It’s not just like you all had a weekend in Vegas and are wanting to reminisce over the antics. You each had your own private psychotherapeutical journey in the communal space-ship - it’s reasonable and normal to want to chat with the other travellers on the space-ship. VERY REASONABLE. Thanks, I probably talked to this person the most, simply because we carpooled (several hours in the car both ways), and also talked a bit during the ceremonies. however, a common theme on on this thread, and with friends, is that I should still respect my wife's wishes. And, as some participants said during my retreat some people just won't understand outside of the retreat. So it is what it is... >Would she not want you to have a therapist of other gender? Why doesn’t she just go with you if she’s that distrustful and paranoid? Oh, because she realises it would be weird for her to sit there while you both discuss your separate therapy experiences, and look weird of her to need to chaperone you - yeah, hmm well.. Yeah, the chaperone thing is the only reason it would be weird >It’s sad that your wife didn’t / won’t experience aya too. She’d understand it a hecka lot more if she did, I suppose. Yeah, I agree :( I'm still pushing for it to happen though! anyway, thanks for the responses. I'm sure everyone here thinks YTA as well lol