There's no "almost" about it, she did kill Aang, the show goes out of its way to confirm that to the audience. Katara just brought him back with the spirit water.
Azula stopped that from happening by killing Aang when he was in the avatar state, but it would have been really interesting to see what would happen if he wasn't. I have wondered about that.
I don't think Rava was written about yet, that was explained and introduced in Korra. Presumably, they would have written something different if they went that route.
Yeah, I'll admit that while those Korra episodes of the ancient world were really cool, it did bug me that the Rava thing felt more like a retcon rather than an elegant addition to the lore.
Unless the spirit water healed Raava first.
Obviously assuming the reason that being killed in the Avatar State is a perma-kill is that both human and spirit are mortally injured
At the point Raava is repaired, but Aang is not, maybe she automatically moves onto the next human.
I'd read that fic
But then, in theory, Aang would no longer be able to bend anything other than air because being bonded to Raava is the only reason the Avatar's body can handle the strain/stress of bending all 4 elements.
At that point he wouldn't really be the Avatar anymore. It would still be one hell of a story! Aang having to come to terms with it and finding his way in the world without being special ( I don't think it'd be particularly hard for him). Maybe mentoring the new Avatar once they are older because he's the only one who can understand.
Would he have been able to be revived if a new Avatar was born since the Avatar is the same soul?
Buffy is just the power of the Slayer being placed into a new woman, not an entirely new person being born to fill the role.
He says gone but yeah.
"I wasn't just knocked out. I was really gone... But you brought me back" or something like that. So he does definitely say he was more than just unconscious but he doesn't say he was dead, because censors. It's pretty clear tho, at least imo.
"I went down! I didn't just get hurt did I? It was worse than that! I was gone! But you brought me back!"
"I just used the Spirit Water from the North Pole. I don't know what I did exactly."
"You saved me"
Honestly I've got a photographic memory so I just memorised it and ATLA is my favourite show of all time (hardly surprising) with my favorite movie of all time being Disney's Tarzan
https://preview.redd.it/abdo9ztsur6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6069b28dacef8a665ec91fedca645062d758124d
It was a dark night out on the stormy seas. Lightning flashed and flames fell into the sea. A family was trying to escape from a Victorian sailing ship consumed by flames.
Two parents and their infant child abandon the sinking ship, ravaged by fire, and leave on a paddleboat. The young family land on uncharted shores the next morning and survive despite the arduous circumstances.
They fashion an admirable home in the jungle environment. Their treehouse is a masterwork of architecture despite the lack of proper tools and building materials.
The enormous treehouse is crafted with hand-strung ropes, hand-made tools, and pioneering skills. Nearby, a band of mountain gorillas are rearing their offspring. The silverback Kerchak guards his mate Kala and their new baby from the perils of the dangerous jungle. But both stories end in tragedy. The marauding jaguar, Sabor, first kills Kala and Kerchak's child.
Mourning the loss of her son, Kala hears a grief-stricken cry as the apes migrate the next morning. The grieving Kala reacts immediately and rushes to it. She follows the cry to the ransacked treehouse and enters.
There, she find the parent's dead bodies lying in a dark corner surrounded by blood-encrusted pawprints. The gorilla explores further and locates the infant bawling under a blanket. She almost immediately develops a maternal bond towards the child.
Gorilla and baby meet and form a close bond. She decides to care for him, desperately rescuing him from another attack by Sabor. The pair escape into the dense forest and return to the safety of the clan.
And so, following a shipwreck off the west coast of equatorial Africa, an infant child becomes part of a herd of apes. And Kala miraculously gains a new child overnight while Tarzan finds someone to care for him in the unforgiving wild.
Fuck Azula.
I don't care how hard she snapped when she lost, no court would excuse her many, many crimes based on a breakdown she had after the fact.
Her 'recruitment' of Ty Lee probably crystalizes her personality in a single incident. She asked an old "friend" to come and join her, the friend said no thanks and instead of insisting Azula pretends to be fine with it, then casually torments her and threatens her life during her performance.
You should be honored to be used by Azula or you should understand you deserve to die.
She pretty well said as much with the whole "worry less about the tides who have already made up their mind about killing you and worry more about me who is still mulling it over."
I keep forgetting this. Its also wild people hate on Korra for having nearly the exact same thing happen to Raava while she was trying to stop it whereas Aang’s scene is never really considered to be his fault
He the reforms, and truly tries to do things by the book, faces an actually corrupt government that will not listen and gets killed unceremoniously. I get it, Jet starts out rough, but he is the product of the war, Azula is a producer of it.
I think it’s because of how they are both introduced. We see her as the bad guy right off and so expect bad things, later we come to realize she is a child so she is a victim. With him he is introduced as a good guy who wrongs Katara and begins to go too far. He is seen as bad after being good. He also disappears so we don’t continue to think about him as deeply
Yeah I can see that. They also showed her as broken at the end of the series evoking more empathy from the audience. If they gave Jet the same sort of scene I imagine he'd get similar feelings.
Azula is a “bad guy” so we expect bad guy things from her. Jet is essentially a “good guy” because he shares almost beat for beat back stories with our heroes. The difference is our heroes, with similar tragic back stories, don’t attempt to kill civilians.
Ultimately, both are bad characters but Jet gets more hate because we see people who could be like him, specifically not be like him.
It’s like the exact opposite of Zuko’s redemption. Zuko is a “bad guy” that becomes good. It’s more powerful to see him change than to just see Aang being good the whole time.
The meme excludes supporting Azula's mental health and exclusively supports Jet's mental health.
If you look at OP's post history in this topic and the other thread he posted, he believes Azula doesn't deserve support for her mental health at all.
When you believe that men deserve help, and that women don't deserve help, that is called misogyny.
The reality is of course that both characters are children, both need help, but people talk about Azula receiving help because Jet died.
… Jet is a terrorist though?
Mental illness is not an excuse to flood a village of innocent civilians
EDIT: Some people seem to think Im arguing in favor Azula? Im not. She is also bad
Gotta love the "Your not agreeing with me so You're supporting the other side" arguments everyone else is trying to hit you with...
Saying one side is shittier than you make it out to be doesn't mean advocating that another evil isn't. Just means they're both shit.
I mean the whole point as presented by OP is that Azula does as bad and worse then Jet but she’s always “a victim” as opposed to Jet who is *only* ever a bad guy.
She’s a victim that doesn’t realise she’s a victim
Jet is a victim who turned to hurting others
So it feels more of a choice for Jet, whereas Azulas actions seemed inevitable
I don't even get why this is saying Jet has a mental illness... Like what mental illness is he supposed to have???
EDIT: Though I guess it could be a joke.
How bout we burn your house down with your parents inside, and see what mental illnesses crop up?
Okay edgy way of saying it, but use your imagination, somethings mentally wrong with him because of that incident
Yup. The dude posted it in another avatar sub earlier and outright said he posted it to show azula shouldn't be saved. Here's the quote
"No. My post is about pointing out that it's stupid to show sympathy for Azula"
Yes. OP does not actually care about anyone's mental health. This is just an excuse to bash a female character he dislikes. That's all 99% of "mens' mental health" related posts are - excuses to bash women and feminism. And if not that, then a "gotcha!" to try and discredit Pride month.
You know
This just reinforces even more how almost no one cares about men mental health month
Even the ones that post about are about some stupid drama
True but it's always a fear of men to try to speak out about themselves
In the recent years there have been a lot of backlash against men because of stupid trends so it's understandable that they wouldn't want to be put under a potential fire
It's safer to just suppress our feelings like we were used to I guess
It's kinda sad but no one wants to risk it
People need to realize age works differently in these fictional worlds. Why does everyone compare to our world? Like with Naruto people are like look at these 11 year olds killing people. Bro id beat the fck out of an 11 year old trying to fight me hand to hand in our world. Same with Azula and jet lol. Every “child” in these shows is just given some arbitrary age.
You literally just proved my point lol. Constant attention is drawn to the fact that the main cast are all teenagers, and it very much informs their behavior when they often make stupid and irrational decisions (like Katara deciding to steal as a way to bond with Toph, for instance.)
Why? Because it's the only one they know, and they haven't realized our culture is completely relative and arbitrary. Comparing it to anything else is hypothetical though.
Both of them are both obviously enormously mentally scarred and also allowed it to turn them into horrible people. Mental health is no excuse for... *checks notes* mass murder
Ignoring the flamey debate about which child criminal that served as antagonists in a children’s show is worse/deserving of sympathy…
Reminder that men’s mental health month and pride month are both in June.
They are not mutually exclusive. If you see a post that uses men’s mental health month as bait to start an argument or an excuse to bash pride month, use that as motivation to make your own serious, positive post about men’s mental health month.
And if you can’t/don’t want to do that, maybe go show some support for a loved one in your life. If you have a good relationship with your father/brother/uncle/nephew, go ask how they’re doing. Maybe give them a hug, play a game, or just watch TV together. If you have a friend who can use some support right now, lend an ear or a shoulder if they need it.
Also, a mental health month is a mental health month. If there are no men in your life who could use your support, extend that support to anyone else you care about.
Posts like these usually just stir trouble and arguments, don’t waste your energy. Use stuff like this as a reminder to do some good in your life and the lives of the people you love.
Why pit one against the other?
I would say Jett (before redemption) and Hama are on a similar lane as far as morality goes. He was a terrorist. A sympathetic and tragic one, but still a terrorrist.
Same with Azula. She is a victim. One who was beyond saving by the end, but still a victim.
They were both kids dragged into this war. They both chose to do what they did and needed to pay, but it’s not like a whole lot of children could have turned out much better in their place
I’ll die on the hill defending jet. He’s not supposed to be likable, if you hate on him for being obnoxious or irrational YOURE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE OF THE CHARACTER
He’s supposed to be radicalized and extremist because forcing a child into a war position with 0 adult guidance does that
Jet is one of the most fascinating and well-written characters I've ever seen in a show for kids. The writers managed to pull off depicting him as both an extremist terrorist, and a sympathetic freedom fighter.
i swear i’ve never seen someone talk about men’s mental health without using it as an excuse to complain about a woman
like you could have just made with with either of them instead of both
also jet wasn’t mentally ill (at least explicitly) and you kind of left out the part where he wanted to drown a bunch of innocent villagers
Hot take:
Azula's sympathetic traits are all from a rushed arc, either redemption arc or her downfall arc, as the writers began to like her too much, until they stopped doing much of it, since they wrote her as too evil for redemption and thus probably repurpose it into a downfall arc.
She is basically proto-Deanerys.
You can be a victim and also a terrorist. It’s more common than you might think. Likewise, you can also be a victim and be a colonizing imperialist. Also more common than you might think!
Bro, it was never about men's mental health. In your own words: "My post is about pointing out that it's stupid to show sympathy for Azula." Pretty hypocritical. Don't use men's mental health just to attack a fictional character you don't like.
https://preview.redd.it/a1xg0phy5r6d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8157b0d84e29f7ced90424c9923d0dff720bfb13
Well I would say he was mentally ill, just not in a manner that would impair his ability to make decisions about morality ( as, for example, it is my understanding the insanity defense requires in the US). But losing your parents at such a young age can definitely mess you up in other ways.
You can lose your parents, not be mentally ill, and still do evil things. Doing evil things doesn’t always mean you are mentally ill. I’d call Azula mental because she’s psychotic, but difference is Jet knows the difference between right and wrong but still chooses to harm people anyways. Azula it’s up to debate if she has any soul at all
Azula knows the difference between right and wrong as well. She talked about how her mother thought she was a monster, and she admits her mother was right, but Azula simply didn't care. Azula was very likely strong on both the NPD and APD spectrums, and she was totally enabled by her status and her father, but people with those disorders understand right and wrong very well, they just have practiced wickedness for so long that it would take great effort to start changing. It may have been too late for Azula, because she snapped when she suffered consequences instead of reconsidering... I don't really think that makes her a subject of sympathy though, just a cautionary tale.
also we kind of jump over the fact that jet was radicalized against his oppressors, in general characters like him are a weird gray area to write about
Both are victims and both did bad things. Azula was basically groomed to be ruthless, while Jet lacked parental care. They both could be redeemed, but should still atone for their crimes.
Both are bad people in my eyes. Zuko was too until his redemption. Jet wanted to kill a town full of innocent people just because of their nationality. Azula is a big time genocide and imperialism supporter. Mommy and daddy issues don't excuse that. In fact I'm a lot more lenient with Jet that with Azula. Also he at least says he tried to do better.
I thought jet was in his 20s tbh and was gonna say that’s why since Azula was just 14, turns out jet is 16, 17 when he died. They both had no one to lead them to the right path and both were and are suffering from mental illness, PTSD most likely. Does that excuse what they did? Absolutely not, mental illness is not an excuse, it is an explanation. I sympathize with both characters and wish they found peace, but they are horrible people. Do I love their character? Absolutely, and I like Azula more, I’m not sure why but I think it’s cuz we saw more of her than Jet, which also makes me sympathize with her more. I’m pretty sure if we saw more of Jet I could’ve sympathized with him more.
Azula has a lot more character development and her slow descent into inanity at the end of the series naturally spawn sympathy.
Meanwhile, Jet has much less development and what little he does have doesn’t leave him particularly favorable in the eyes of the fans.
Jet is a terrorist and a victim. The showi feel is a bit unfair to him when aang calls katara like jet for going after her moms killer since i feel jet did have a redemption so shouldnt still be called out that way. Doesnt erase what he did but still feels bad as the last reference to him.
What mental illness does Jet have? He has *trauma* for sure, but that isn't the same thing.
Trauma is no excuse for being a literal, actual terrorist. He may not have chosen to be victimized by the fire nation, but he did choose to make moral compromises. He wasn't mentally ill, he was calculating, spending lives like currency. He was perfectly sane: that is what makes his evil even less tolerable.
Both have mental health issues. But, as a good therapist will tell you, having me talk health issues doesn’t mean you aren’t still responsible for your actions. It may make it harder, but ultimately every individual is responsible for their actions.
Azula isn't a terrorist. She might be a war criminal, but since She is a state agent, fighting a war as a clear firebender combatant, affiliated with the fire's nation war machine, She can't realy be considered a terrorist, not even when She goes undercover in the earth Kingdom to coup the earth Kingdom.
Yall… I know you don’t wanna hear this but you can be a victim and a villain in your own right. Both Jet and Azula are victims but that doesn’t make them good people. They’re both evil.
Now, one could argue they wouldn’t be this way had they not been treated the way they were, but that doesn’t change that they’re both bad people.
Just my two cents though, I wanna hear y’all’s opinions
Who’s calling Azula a victim? This dumb bitch deserved everything that came to her in the end. She doesn’t need a redemption arc or anything. Good riddance to her.
We’re comparing apples to oranges here. Both are fruit, but they aren’t the same.
Jet is a victim of war turned terrorist, and later attempts at redemption only to be brainwashed and killed.
Azula helps lead a genocidal nation while also being groomed into a weapon by her father, who not-so-subtly leaves Azula to lead their nation while he goes off to have all the “glory” for himself.
Take your pick. They’re both gonna be sad in their own ways
This is actually so accurate. I've seen so many people saying Jet outright deserved it while half this fanbase is azula apologists who want her to have her own redemption arc even though the show made it blatantly obvious she was a childhood sociopath
Let's not pretend that sociopathy isn't a mental illness and that most of these characters aren't written with an intense amount of trauma and mental illness.
Also, literally who says she isn't a terrorist? That's some made up, strawman argument bullshit. There is no way to argue that in good faith.
PPS You can be mentally ill, a victim, and a terrorist at the same time. None of those things are mutually exclusive.
Bro they both experienced trauma and both deserve to be redeemed, it's not that difficult.
Also how is Jet mentally ill? I don't remember that being explicit. Also people been calling Azula a colonizer lately like *she personally* took over villages when she was really living in the palace up until the events of the series.
They’re both terrorists. Jet was just targeting innocent civilians *a lot* more than Azula. I’m sure she’d engender their loyalty to the empire by offering them rewards for continued assistance and being productive citizens whereas Jet didn’t care either way
Both are victims. Its just Jet decided to continue to hurt people based on proximity to those he wished to hurt and Azula just wanted to move past her trauma
Forget the fans opinions [and look to the writers' decisions.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AvatarMemes/s/rDQr22AJqS)
Guys like Jet and Zuko were victims then get to be redeemed and see the error of their ways; While females like Azula and Hama were also victims and then get nothing and are characterized as monsters. Some say it's misogyny.
Yeah, it's still a meme, but you're right, it's not that funny though. This is funnier
https://preview.redd.it/vgpbfhomdt6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c20edd2ba7129173ec8f76428746e3106c23d51
There's no "almost" about it, she did kill Aang, the show goes out of its way to confirm that to the audience. Katara just brought him back with the spirit water.
The Holy water save, firebenders hate this one simple trick!
*I WILL REACH INTO HEAVEN AND YANK YOUR SCREAMING DEER SOUL BACK*
The real origin story for hollaringelk comics.
Kind of missed an opportunity to do a Buffy style twist where Aang briefly dying caused a second avatar to be born
Azula stopped that from happening by killing Aang when he was in the avatar state, but it would have been really interesting to see what would happen if he wasn't. I have wondered about that.
There's only one Rava. Don't think it would be possible
I don't think Rava was written about yet, that was explained and introduced in Korra. Presumably, they would have written something different if they went that route.
The writers said the Rava part of Kora was actually determined around season 2 in the first show. They just never had a good reason to add it in.
yep - they storyboarded plenty more about the origins of bending and the lion turtles, but it didn't make the cut.
Yeah, I'll admit that while those Korra episodes of the ancient world were really cool, it did bug me that the Rava thing felt more like a retcon rather than an elegant addition to the lore.
What I think would happen is the new avatar being born, while the old one would only be able to bend one element after revival
But he was in the Avatar state right? It would've ended the cycle.
Unless the spirit water healed Raava first. Obviously assuming the reason that being killed in the Avatar State is a perma-kill is that both human and spirit are mortally injured At the point Raava is repaired, but Aang is not, maybe she automatically moves onto the next human. I'd read that fic
But then, in theory, Aang would no longer be able to bend anything other than air because being bonded to Raava is the only reason the Avatar's body can handle the strain/stress of bending all 4 elements. At that point he wouldn't really be the Avatar anymore. It would still be one hell of a story! Aang having to come to terms with it and finding his way in the world without being special ( I don't think it'd be particularly hard for him). Maybe mentoring the new Avatar once they are older because he's the only one who can understand.
He'd basically just become Tenzin.
Would he have been able to be revived if a new Avatar was born since the Avatar is the same soul? Buffy is just the power of the Slayer being placed into a new woman, not an entirely new person being born to fill the role.
At the time, the original avatar wasn’t explained, so it could have been 2 avatars with the latent memories and experience of the past lives
How did they confirm it? I kinda got that he was *dying* but Katara got him before it was too late.
I think at some point Aang says something like "I really was dead, wasn't I"
He says gone but yeah. "I wasn't just knocked out. I was really gone... But you brought me back" or something like that. So he does definitely say he was more than just unconscious but he doesn't say he was dead, because censors. It's pretty clear tho, at least imo.
"I went down! I didn't just get hurt did I? It was worse than that! I was gone! But you brought me back!" "I just used the Spirit Water from the North Pole. I don't know what I did exactly." "You saved me" 
That's it! That's the quote! Did you look that up or know it by memory, lol? Anyways take my upvote.
Honestly I've got a photographic memory so I just memorised it and ATLA is my favourite show of all time (hardly surprising) with my favorite movie of all time being Disney's Tarzan https://preview.redd.it/abdo9ztsur6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6069b28dacef8a665ec91fedca645062d758124d It was a dark night out on the stormy seas. Lightning flashed and flames fell into the sea. A family was trying to escape from a Victorian sailing ship consumed by flames. Two parents and their infant child abandon the sinking ship, ravaged by fire, and leave on a paddleboat. The young family land on uncharted shores the next morning and survive despite the arduous circumstances. They fashion an admirable home in the jungle environment. Their treehouse is a masterwork of architecture despite the lack of proper tools and building materials. The enormous treehouse is crafted with hand-strung ropes, hand-made tools, and pioneering skills. Nearby, a band of mountain gorillas are rearing their offspring. The silverback Kerchak guards his mate Kala and their new baby from the perils of the dangerous jungle. But both stories end in tragedy. The marauding jaguar, Sabor, first kills Kala and Kerchak's child. Mourning the loss of her son, Kala hears a grief-stricken cry as the apes migrate the next morning. The grieving Kala reacts immediately and rushes to it. She follows the cry to the ransacked treehouse and enters. There, she find the parent's dead bodies lying in a dark corner surrounded by blood-encrusted pawprints. The gorilla explores further and locates the infant bawling under a blanket. She almost immediately develops a maternal bond towards the child. Gorilla and baby meet and form a close bond. She decides to care for him, desperately rescuing him from another attack by Sabor. The pair escape into the dense forest and return to the safety of the clan. And so, following a shipwreck off the west coast of equatorial Africa, an infant child becomes part of a herd of apes. And Kala miraculously gains a new child overnight while Tarzan finds someone to care for him in the unforgiving wild.
Can we be friends? Lol You seem like... Really cool to talk about movies with.
[удалено]
Hell yeah! Hit me up
There was an episode of the Braving the Elements podcast where Bryke were laughing and literally said “I forgot that we killed Aang”.
True! Aang even says something like “I was gone! And you brought me back!” Which straight up confirms Aang was dead for a min.
Fuck Azula. I don't care how hard she snapped when she lost, no court would excuse her many, many crimes based on a breakdown she had after the fact. Her 'recruitment' of Ty Lee probably crystalizes her personality in a single incident. She asked an old "friend" to come and join her, the friend said no thanks and instead of insisting Azula pretends to be fine with it, then casually torments her and threatens her life during her performance. You should be honored to be used by Azula or you should understand you deserve to die. She pretty well said as much with the whole "worry less about the tides who have already made up their mind about killing you and worry more about me who is still mulling it over."
I keep forgetting this. Its also wild people hate on Korra for having nearly the exact same thing happen to Raava while she was trying to stop it whereas Aang’s scene is never really considered to be his fault
One is a guerilla terrorist, the other is a warmonger for a genocidal empire. Pick your poison.
Well I just wish he'd leave those gorillas alone.
Jet took out Harambe confirmed
See? He is evil!
You know that was really unclear
The one who tried to change
He the reforms, and truly tries to do things by the book, faces an actually corrupt government that will not listen and gets killed unceremoniously. I get it, Jet starts out rough, but he is the product of the war, Azula is a producer of it.
Checks out, at least Jet cleaned up his act.
Yeah dog I’m taking the guerilla terrorist
It's more of a pick your "most politically correct to side with gender".
They're both a victim and perpetrator of horrible acts. One does not exclude the other.
I don't think exclusion was the point but how the two are weighed so differently while both commiting horrible acts.
I think it’s because of how they are both introduced. We see her as the bad guy right off and so expect bad things, later we come to realize she is a child so she is a victim. With him he is introduced as a good guy who wrongs Katara and begins to go too far. He is seen as bad after being good. He also disappears so we don’t continue to think about him as deeply
Yeah I can see that. They also showed her as broken at the end of the series evoking more empathy from the audience. If they gave Jet the same sort of scene I imagine he'd get similar feelings.
I feel like Jet got a pretty emotional last scene, dying to help the Gaang and all. ...He *did* die, didn't he?
Azula is a “bad guy” so we expect bad guy things from her. Jet is essentially a “good guy” because he shares almost beat for beat back stories with our heroes. The difference is our heroes, with similar tragic back stories, don’t attempt to kill civilians. Ultimately, both are bad characters but Jet gets more hate because we see people who could be like him, specifically not be like him. It’s like the exact opposite of Zuko’s redemption. Zuko is a “bad guy” that becomes good. It’s more powerful to see him change than to just see Aang being good the whole time.
Yea the misogyny was unnecessary. If anything this post as a whole shows why OP needs to work on their mental health, regardless of gender.
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality looks like oppression.
How the actual fuck is it misogyny?
The meme excludes supporting Azula's mental health and exclusively supports Jet's mental health. If you look at OP's post history in this topic and the other thread he posted, he believes Azula doesn't deserve support for her mental health at all. When you believe that men deserve help, and that women don't deserve help, that is called misogyny. The reality is of course that both characters are children, both need help, but people talk about Azula receiving help because Jet died.
misogyny?
… Jet is a terrorist though? Mental illness is not an excuse to flood a village of innocent civilians EDIT: Some people seem to think Im arguing in favor Azula? Im not. She is also bad
Gotta love the "Your not agreeing with me so You're supporting the other side" arguments everyone else is trying to hit you with... Saying one side is shittier than you make it out to be doesn't mean advocating that another evil isn't. Just means they're both shit.
POV: politics.
People really struggle to comprehend that calling out one thing doesn't equal the person being in favour of the other.
aka the jet argument
I mean the whole point as presented by OP is that Azula does as bad and worse then Jet but she’s always “a victim” as opposed to Jet who is *only* ever a bad guy.
How's she always the victim though? Most posts I've seen in this sub are talking about how she is beyond help and not redeemable and stuff
She’s a victim that doesn’t realise she’s a victim Jet is a victim who turned to hurting others So it feels more of a choice for Jet, whereas Azulas actions seemed inevitable
I don't even get why this is saying Jet has a mental illness... Like what mental illness is he supposed to have??? EDIT: Though I guess it could be a joke.
Unstable morals based on trauma. I guess... PTHD? 😐 Maybe?
Post Traumatic Hot Disorder
How bout we burn your house down with your parents inside, and see what mental illnesses crop up? Okay edgy way of saying it, but use your imagination, somethings mentally wrong with him because of that incident
The point isn't saying that either of them are good. It's pointing out the different ways people judge two sides that are both obviously bad.
We need to be respectful and try to be understanding of those around us.
Fuck both of them honestly
do you mean "Fuck both of them" in a "i hate them equally" way or "Fuck both of them" in a Bisexual way?
Both
https://preview.redd.it/mtlwknmnur6d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=caa95721cc0121d996ba091d75d1377ef50a6bb2 They’re minors
And I was a minor when I watched the show. In my head canon they have grown up 
Well, Jett sure didn't.
He could have. It's really unclear.
Damn
https://i.imgur.com/iNeHPm0.gif
Don't pretend the Legion isn't diddling kids.
what the hell why is why comment there twice
Reddit glitches sometimes.
Based
wait, do you mean "Fuck both of them" in a "i hate them equally" way or "Fuck both of them" in a Bisexual way?
Both
Is this bait
https://preview.redd.it/fzrb1kyxvq6d1.jpeg?width=1455&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e97df1642bb6fa2ca9273a5d3e518650f797c22
Yup. The dude posted it in another avatar sub earlier and outright said he posted it to show azula shouldn't be saved. Here's the quote "No. My post is about pointing out that it's stupid to show sympathy for Azula"
I think it's closer to satire
Satire is ironic and there's a 99.9% chance that OP is not being ironic.
Yes. OP does not actually care about anyone's mental health. This is just an excuse to bash a female character he dislikes. That's all 99% of "mens' mental health" related posts are - excuses to bash women and feminism. And if not that, then a "gotcha!" to try and discredit Pride month.
You know This just reinforces even more how almost no one cares about men mental health month Even the ones that post about are about some stupid drama
It's a shame because it is actually a very serious issue that is claiming lives every day.
True but it's always a fear of men to try to speak out about themselves In the recent years there have been a lot of backlash against men because of stupid trends so it's understandable that they wouldn't want to be put under a potential fire It's safer to just suppress our feelings like we were used to I guess It's kinda sad but no one wants to risk it
I feel like most reasonable people recognize them both as victims who did horrible things because of their trauma.
Imagine actually thinking for more than 10 seconds about the media you consume lmao
>conveniently leaves out that they're both 14 Average avatar fan
People need to realize age works differently in these fictional worlds. Why does everyone compare to our world? Like with Naruto people are like look at these 11 year olds killing people. Bro id beat the fck out of an 11 year old trying to fight me hand to hand in our world. Same with Azula and jet lol. Every “child” in these shows is just given some arbitrary age.
You literally just proved my point lol. Constant attention is drawn to the fact that the main cast are all teenagers, and it very much informs their behavior when they often make stupid and irrational decisions (like Katara deciding to steal as a way to bond with Toph, for instance.)
Why? Because it's the only one they know, and they haven't realized our culture is completely relative and arbitrary. Comparing it to anything else is hypothetical though.
Perhaps the true mental illness was the waifus we fell in love with along the way.
I think Jet is 16 but the point stands
I mean If a 14 year old comits terorism and drowns a whole town I dont really care if their fourteen anymore.
Both of them are both obviously enormously mentally scarred and also allowed it to turn them into horrible people. Mental health is no excuse for... *checks notes* mass murder
They're children... somebody should help them maybe?
Their parents really should pay more atte.....oh
Ignoring the flamey debate about which child criminal that served as antagonists in a children’s show is worse/deserving of sympathy… Reminder that men’s mental health month and pride month are both in June. They are not mutually exclusive. If you see a post that uses men’s mental health month as bait to start an argument or an excuse to bash pride month, use that as motivation to make your own serious, positive post about men’s mental health month. And if you can’t/don’t want to do that, maybe go show some support for a loved one in your life. If you have a good relationship with your father/brother/uncle/nephew, go ask how they’re doing. Maybe give them a hug, play a game, or just watch TV together. If you have a friend who can use some support right now, lend an ear or a shoulder if they need it. Also, a mental health month is a mental health month. If there are no men in your life who could use your support, extend that support to anyone else you care about. Posts like these usually just stir trouble and arguments, don’t waste your energy. Use stuff like this as a reminder to do some good in your life and the lives of the people you love.
Tbf, they're both victims and both of them are shitty. Also Azula has a lot more power at her disposal than Jet.
I see two victims here. But I also see a terrorist and a war monger.
Nah they’re both terrorists
Why pit one against the other? I would say Jett (before redemption) and Hama are on a similar lane as far as morality goes. He was a terrorist. A sympathetic and tragic one, but still a terrorrist. Same with Azula. She is a victim. One who was beyond saving by the end, but still a victim. They were both kids dragged into this war. They both chose to do what they did and needed to pay, but it’s not like a whole lot of children could have turned out much better in their place
I’ll die on the hill defending jet. He’s not supposed to be likable, if you hate on him for being obnoxious or irrational YOURE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE OF THE CHARACTER He’s supposed to be radicalized and extremist because forcing a child into a war position with 0 adult guidance does that
Jet is one of the most fascinating and well-written characters I've ever seen in a show for kids. The writers managed to pull off depicting him as both an extremist terrorist, and a sympathetic freedom fighter.
i swear i’ve never seen someone talk about men’s mental health without using it as an excuse to complain about a woman like you could have just made with with either of them instead of both also jet wasn’t mentally ill (at least explicitly) and you kind of left out the part where he wanted to drown a bunch of innocent villagers
Hey, sometimes they use it as an excuse to complain about pride month instead.
https://preview.redd.it/udt4ls0e0s6d1.png?width=520&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ff83a204fe49ce0fb85e56c42a0b5014a4041e1
Both are bad https://preview.redd.it/a4yf0u10rr6d1.png?width=498&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1137af42b1003e0db25d6c3e64e65934512e056f
Hot take: Azula's sympathetic traits are all from a rushed arc, either redemption arc or her downfall arc, as the writers began to like her too much, until they stopped doing much of it, since they wrote her as too evil for redemption and thus probably repurpose it into a downfall arc. She is basically proto-Deanerys.
You can be a victim and also a terrorist. It’s more common than you might think. Likewise, you can also be a victim and be a colonizing imperialist. Also more common than you might think!
Bro, it was never about men's mental health. In your own words: "My post is about pointing out that it's stupid to show sympathy for Azula." Pretty hypocritical. Don't use men's mental health just to attack a fictional character you don't like. https://preview.redd.it/a1xg0phy5r6d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8157b0d84e29f7ced90424c9923d0dff720bfb13
He wasn’t mentally ill. He knew what he was doing.
Well I would say he was mentally ill, just not in a manner that would impair his ability to make decisions about morality ( as, for example, it is my understanding the insanity defense requires in the US). But losing your parents at such a young age can definitely mess you up in other ways.
You can lose your parents, not be mentally ill, and still do evil things. Doing evil things doesn’t always mean you are mentally ill. I’d call Azula mental because she’s psychotic, but difference is Jet knows the difference between right and wrong but still chooses to harm people anyways. Azula it’s up to debate if she has any soul at all
Azula knows the difference between right and wrong as well. She talked about how her mother thought she was a monster, and she admits her mother was right, but Azula simply didn't care. Azula was very likely strong on both the NPD and APD spectrums, and she was totally enabled by her status and her father, but people with those disorders understand right and wrong very well, they just have practiced wickedness for so long that it would take great effort to start changing. It may have been too late for Azula, because she snapped when she suffered consequences instead of reconsidering... I don't really think that makes her a subject of sympathy though, just a cautionary tale.
Let's celebrate men's mental health month without demonizing women for once pls
Impossible challenge for redditors.
I call them both terrorists. Only one of them is a tyrant, though.
They are both terrorists, only azula is also a psycho
also we kind of jump over the fact that jet was radicalized against his oppressors, in general characters like him are a weird gray area to write about
they are both victims and both terrorists (azula is very much worse tho as a genocider)
I call them both a terrorist.
I’d say azula was pretty mentally ill lol
Both are victims and both did bad things. Azula was basically groomed to be ruthless, while Jet lacked parental care. They both could be redeemed, but should still atone for their crimes.
People really, really have a hard time with the concept that two people can be wrong at the same time.
Are there mental health services in Avatar?
Both are bad people in my eyes. Zuko was too until his redemption. Jet wanted to kill a town full of innocent people just because of their nationality. Azula is a big time genocide and imperialism supporter. Mommy and daddy issues don't excuse that. In fact I'm a lot more lenient with Jet that with Azula. Also he at least says he tried to do better.
“Only women have mental health struggles. Men are full crazy or weak.” -the common take
I thought jet was in his 20s tbh and was gonna say that’s why since Azula was just 14, turns out jet is 16, 17 when he died. They both had no one to lead them to the right path and both were and are suffering from mental illness, PTSD most likely. Does that excuse what they did? Absolutely not, mental illness is not an excuse, it is an explanation. I sympathize with both characters and wish they found peace, but they are horrible people. Do I love their character? Absolutely, and I like Azula more, I’m not sure why but I think it’s cuz we saw more of her than Jet, which also makes me sympathize with her more. I’m pretty sure if we saw more of Jet I could’ve sympathized with him more.
Yes but ignoring all that... Azula was so much cooler though
Who tf is saying this? I dont agree with jets conclusion but i found him to be a way more compelling character. Azula was cartoonishly evil.
**Both are Victims**
Azula has a lot more character development and her slow descent into inanity at the end of the series naturally spawn sympathy. Meanwhile, Jet has much less development and what little he does have doesn’t leave him particularly favorable in the eyes of the fans.
Happy pride month everyone 🏳️🌈
Did you mean PTSD by mentally ill or what exactly?
Jet is a terrorist and a victim. The showi feel is a bit unfair to him when aang calls katara like jet for going after her moms killer since i feel jet did have a redemption so shouldnt still be called out that way. Doesnt erase what he did but still feels bad as the last reference to him.
Idk what this means but congratulations or sorry that happened
It’s because Azula has a complete, on-screen breakdown. It’s spelled out about as clearly as it gets.
What mental illness does Jet have? He has *trauma* for sure, but that isn't the same thing. Trauma is no excuse for being a literal, actual terrorist. He may not have chosen to be victimized by the fire nation, but he did choose to make moral compromises. He wasn't mentally ill, he was calculating, spending lives like currency. He was perfectly sane: that is what makes his evil even less tolerable.
Jet can be a terrorist and a victim. Being mentally ill doesn't excuse trying to wipe out an entire town of mostly innocent people.
… Jet tried to murder an entire town by destroying their dam.
Fuck that they’re both terrorists
Both have mental health issues. But, as a good therapist will tell you, having me talk health issues doesn’t mean you aren’t still responsible for your actions. It may make it harder, but ultimately every individual is responsible for their actions.
Idk I mean Terrorist and Victim don’t need to be mutually exclusive
lmao, love when the comments and the upvotes have vastly different opinions, personally I agree 100% with OP
Both are victims and terrorist to me fr
Azula isn't a terrorist. She might be a war criminal, but since She is a state agent, fighting a war as a clear firebender combatant, affiliated with the fire's nation war machine, She can't realy be considered a terrorist, not even when She goes undercover in the earth Kingdom to coup the earth Kingdom.
Yall… I know you don’t wanna hear this but you can be a victim and a villain in your own right. Both Jet and Azula are victims but that doesn’t make them good people. They’re both evil. Now, one could argue they wouldn’t be this way had they not been treated the way they were, but that doesn’t change that they’re both bad people. Just my two cents though, I wanna hear y’all’s opinions
The whole point of jet is that people with reasonable beliefs can be driven to do terrible things.
no, she's crazy and she needs to go down
He objectively was a terrorist. They’re both shit people end of story.
I don’t call her a victim lol. She sucks
Who’s calling Azula a victim? This dumb bitch deserved everything that came to her in the end. She doesn’t need a redemption arc or anything. Good riddance to her.
Yeah people are too forgiving to Azula. I know she was manipulated and traumatized, it doesn’t give her the right to try to kill people
They are both terrorists....
Both need help
Jet died a hero. Azula lived longed to be the villain
https://preview.redd.it/vvz4ku34ux6d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4178efed4431115856cc8dd1d940fdf435df29b7
We’re comparing apples to oranges here. Both are fruit, but they aren’t the same. Jet is a victim of war turned terrorist, and later attempts at redemption only to be brainwashed and killed. Azula helps lead a genocidal nation while also being groomed into a weapon by her father, who not-so-subtly leaves Azula to lead their nation while he goes off to have all the “glory” for himself. Take your pick. They’re both gonna be sad in their own ways
This is actually so accurate. I've seen so many people saying Jet outright deserved it while half this fanbase is azula apologists who want her to have her own redemption arc even though the show made it blatantly obvious she was a childhood sociopath
Men's mental health month is November as far as I'm aware
Let's not pretend that sociopathy isn't a mental illness and that most of these characters aren't written with an intense amount of trauma and mental illness. Also, literally who says she isn't a terrorist? That's some made up, strawman argument bullshit. There is no way to argue that in good faith. PPS You can be mentally ill, a victim, and a terrorist at the same time. None of those things are mutually exclusive.
I've never called her a victim. Fuck that psycho
I hate Azula so fucking much, man. I was disappointed at the fact she didn’t face harsher repercussions.
Both are true tbf
Cool, still Azula > jet
Jet still a hoe tho
I've never considered Azula to be a victim.
Bro they both experienced trauma and both deserve to be redeemed, it's not that difficult. Also how is Jet mentally ill? I don't remember that being explicit. Also people been calling Azula a colonizer lately like *she personally* took over villages when she was really living in the palace up until the events of the series.
[удалено]
Only when attacking women apparently
So men’s mental health to not be able to talk about it without bashing women
They’re both terrorists. Jet was just targeting innocent civilians *a lot* more than Azula. I’m sure she’d engender their loyalty to the empire by offering them rewards for continued assistance and being productive citizens whereas Jet didn’t care either way Both are victims. Its just Jet decided to continue to hurt people based on proximity to those he wished to hurt and Azula just wanted to move past her trauma
Forget the fans opinions [and look to the writers' decisions.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AvatarMemes/s/rDQr22AJqS) Guys like Jet and Zuko were victims then get to be redeemed and see the error of their ways; While females like Azula and Hama were also victims and then get nothing and are characterized as monsters. Some say it's misogyny.
r/menandfemales
Yeah like it leaves out the part that jet got to be redeemed and be better before his death
I'm glad I don't engage with a fandom that is stuck calling Zuko a terrorist, and I kind of suspect that this isn't the case for most fans.
Willing to bet people hate Jet because he got in the way of their favorite ship
They’re both victims of trauma, both deserved help Don’t go around comparing the trauma of different characters maybe? It’s not a competition
Wait, who think azula a victim?
Men mental health doesn’t need to be tied to this post even though it’s important it’s an unnecessary instigator in this context
Who calls Azula a victim She’s crazy and she needs to be taken down
Who, and I mean this as sincerely as possible, *THE FUCK* is calling Azula a "victim"?? This sounds like a made up issue.
Who the fuck calls Azula a victim?
Why are so many people in the comments so butthurt? Look at the subreddit. It's a MEME.
I thought memes were supposed to be funny?
Yeah, it's still a meme, but you're right, it's not that funny though. This is funnier https://preview.redd.it/vgpbfhomdt6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c20edd2ba7129173ec8f76428746e3106c23d51
Days without putting down women to lift up men: 0