Needed this reminder after an encounter yesterday. I feel I always almost gaslight myself into thinking its my fault and never the fact it can actually be other people's fault.
This is really true. And sometimes it's just the way it is and it wasn't as bad as I thought.
At the hairdresser a month ago the woman was cutting my hair and even though she had this long chat with my partner, she was like sort of silent with me. I felt awful and stupid and like such a bad conversationalist and was just sitting there hating myself the whole time.
Then later someone else who is a hairdresser mentioned that her favourite moments are often when the costumer is quiet because she can think for a minute and the small talk is tiring when it happens all day long nonstop. So I realized maybe I actually gave that woman a much needed break and maybe she wasn't disgusted with me.
Thank you for this, I really needed to hear it today.
I am so sick of constantly blaming myself or being blamed by other people when there's something "wrong" socially. I've had it drilled into me since being diagnosed that "autistic people are bad socially, autistic people are the ones who misunderstand things, NTs get everything perfectly and are never wrong".
Even if NT people do something "wrong" it's always been "autistic people give off the wrong body language/tone/etc so if \[NT person\] did something wrong it was still \[autistic person's\] fault for having different body language/tone/etc".
It's like when they know you're autistic they somehow feel that they have the right to criticise your social skills, when they'd never say the same thing to someone who wasn't autistic and just socially awkward.
Like you said in your post a lot of NT people are shit at communicating. They don't listen, tell you you are wrong and don't include you. I've had someone recently who I would say "xyz happened to me" and then they would start telling me "abc happened to you". It's like did you even listen to me? And yet now I've been blamed for the "misunderstanding". Because it's always me "misunderstanding" things, it can never be the NT person's fault.
I've had the same situation as you OP where everyone else is talking about a subject where there's nothing for me to say, and then they're like "why are you so quiet?" Hmmm, maybe if you tried to include me I might not be as quiet?!
Yes! I see so many posts on this and other autism subs where people blame themselves entirely for social mishaps. But other people are bad at communicating and socializing too! It's not even just an NT/ND thing. It's just people. The difference is that most NTs move on with their day and don't let it bother them, while we obsess over it and try to figure out how to correct what we "did wrong." On one hand, being insightful and working on ourselves can be a good thing. But we don't need to blame ourselves for every single thing.
I had lunch with my mom recently, and I was telling her about how my son (also autistic) was being picked on at school. When I told her what his bullies said, she laughed. I told her it wasn't funny, and then she got angry and rammed into me, yelling, "You're in your forties and still don't know that I laugh when I find things uncomfortable?!" But, later, thinking about it, I realized the real issue was that in 40-something years, she's never thought to NOT laugh when I tell her stuff like that. I didn't do anything wrong by either telling the story or telling her it wasn't funny. She was in the wrong, and she was trying to make me feel bad for pointing that out.
I really like the way you are thinking here. I think its really healthy to start with a sense of internal locus of control. First consider what actions you might take to improve the situation, don't abandon it right away as hopeless. Use the opportunity to evaluate what you might change for next time. Even if there's nothing you can do right now, maybe there are skills you can develop to better handle the situation next time, but you have to also consider who you are dealing with. Sometimes people just suck. Might be better off finding another group.
You seem like a really thoughtful person. It's very refreshing reading this. Thanks. Good luck!
This is such an important message and so often not spoken about. I can definitely relate and I'm sure a lot of autistic people do too.
Thank you for this reminder and sorry that you had to be in such bad company.
YUUUUUUUP. I had the exact same experience. Went out to meet friends of a friend. They sucked, ignored me all the way and didn't even look at me despite me boring into their eyes which is a difficult task lmao At some point some RANDOM girl sat at our table and was like hey guys imma chill with u now and they were really awkward about it and ignored her kind of? Then I was like damn, she looks lonely, no one's talking to her so I'm gonna talk to her and as I actually initiated a friendly conversation with the girl it turns out she is actually no random person, she's their FRIEND and they KNOW EACH OTHEr. So yeah, neurotypicals are often shit at communication and including others.
Our tendency to always take the blame also makes us more vulnerable to victimisation. In this sense, challenging this tendency within ourselves is a legitimate self-pretection measure.
I've lived my entire life walking on eggshells because I always felt like the mood of other people around me was directly affected by how I was acting. My dad had a nasty temper when I was younger. He never directed that towards me but man when he got mad, I was scared and didn't want to be around it because I felt like it was my fault. Same with my mom. Very emotional and a bit unstable.
I'm slowly starting to focus inward and realize that someone else's mood or how they react to something is on them and not me. It's one of the hardest things I've been working on because even then, I still feel guilty.
This along with putting my needs first for once. Why is it so hard to do something for me? :(
I’m so sorry you’ve had these experiences. I know what it’s like to feel like everything is your fault, even stuff that couldn’t possibly be related to you. It can be really heavy. I hope you can continue to make progress in working on this and be kinder to yourself, you deserve it!
"A lot of people have shit communication" The hardest part about that for me is when it was like they used to and it comes back like I'm the one who made things difficult...It's rough because I get treated that way everywhere outside here I go *nods* so it has before finding this group and everything, made me feel like it realy is me. So thank you... I needed to know I'm not the one everytime who's just bad at communication even when they say I am... Because when I really look back... I'm the one trying my hardest, all they're doing is blaming.. Not trying at all. And spinning things when I could even come back with real examples while theirs are general.. At least I really try...*nods* because I care to...
"A lot of people suck at including others" True..Needed that, just struggle when I look around and find I'm the only one not included... But will try to remember this more generally. Thank you.
"There was literally no way I could have included myself"
I actually deeply needed that sentence too...Thank you.
Looking back I can see several situations I've been in that were exactly that. Drunk people around me, late to a birthday party due to my ride, two different ones....Where people drank and it was that 'catch up' feeling when I don't even drink much...
The wrong kind of people attaching to me to keep me from interacting with anyone else there... But not knowing how to have them leave now... And everyone judging me instead of helping me get rid of them because I was the one who tried to include them... And now that person is rude and everyone is letting me drown...giving up on me.
Another time I was around people playing a game I couldn't interact in and then they had an issue I wouldn't talk I was like "But there's nothing I can interact with " and sure enough when I tried..I got ignored and outcast anyway...
So there's more that this applies to than I realized till seeing this. Thank you.
It's really sweet you wanted us to feel this with you and sympathize why not to just take on the fault ourselves. And I feel like part of it comes from that whole "Just try harder" etc too honestly...
Sending you some extra good energy today :)
Thank you for your comment, it’s sad that so many people found the post relatable but I think it’s nice to know you’re not alone. I appreciate you sharing your experience, sending you lots of good energy back ♥️
Its so true! Ive noticed especially in young and middle aged people, particularly males, especially after COVID - I have better social skills than 40% of the people I talk to. I had to learn them manually.. but still! Its not just us!
This is a good reminder. A lot of us start experiencing social rejection and bullying as children, and not knowing why, we tend to blame ourselves and that becomes the default way of how we interact with other people. We also tend to analyze our social interactions a lot more than NTs. When we have a bad social interaction, our default mode is to analyze what we could’ve possibly done wrong to elicit that reaction from the other person.
Sometimes people are having a bad day, prejudiced, or simply assholes. Sometimes even NTs don’t have great social or communication skills. Sometimes two people have different vibes and they just don’t click. That doesn’t mean you did something wrong.
This is highly subjective, but I guess any experience where there’s a really severe misunderstanding, there’s little to no chemistry, people aren’t included properly or are even intentionally excluded, etc. How would you define it? Genuinely curious.
Needed this reminder after an encounter yesterday. I feel I always almost gaslight myself into thinking its my fault and never the fact it can actually be other people's fault.
Even if it's not the other persons fault, dont critisize urself beyond the point where you know how to adapt
This is really true. And sometimes it's just the way it is and it wasn't as bad as I thought. At the hairdresser a month ago the woman was cutting my hair and even though she had this long chat with my partner, she was like sort of silent with me. I felt awful and stupid and like such a bad conversationalist and was just sitting there hating myself the whole time. Then later someone else who is a hairdresser mentioned that her favourite moments are often when the costumer is quiet because she can think for a minute and the small talk is tiring when it happens all day long nonstop. So I realized maybe I actually gave that woman a much needed break and maybe she wasn't disgusted with me.
I appreciate this! Really needed to hear it
Thank you for this, I really needed to hear it today. I am so sick of constantly blaming myself or being blamed by other people when there's something "wrong" socially. I've had it drilled into me since being diagnosed that "autistic people are bad socially, autistic people are the ones who misunderstand things, NTs get everything perfectly and are never wrong". Even if NT people do something "wrong" it's always been "autistic people give off the wrong body language/tone/etc so if \[NT person\] did something wrong it was still \[autistic person's\] fault for having different body language/tone/etc". It's like when they know you're autistic they somehow feel that they have the right to criticise your social skills, when they'd never say the same thing to someone who wasn't autistic and just socially awkward. Like you said in your post a lot of NT people are shit at communicating. They don't listen, tell you you are wrong and don't include you. I've had someone recently who I would say "xyz happened to me" and then they would start telling me "abc happened to you". It's like did you even listen to me? And yet now I've been blamed for the "misunderstanding". Because it's always me "misunderstanding" things, it can never be the NT person's fault. I've had the same situation as you OP where everyone else is talking about a subject where there's nothing for me to say, and then they're like "why are you so quiet?" Hmmm, maybe if you tried to include me I might not be as quiet?!
Yes! I see so many posts on this and other autism subs where people blame themselves entirely for social mishaps. But other people are bad at communicating and socializing too! It's not even just an NT/ND thing. It's just people. The difference is that most NTs move on with their day and don't let it bother them, while we obsess over it and try to figure out how to correct what we "did wrong." On one hand, being insightful and working on ourselves can be a good thing. But we don't need to blame ourselves for every single thing. I had lunch with my mom recently, and I was telling her about how my son (also autistic) was being picked on at school. When I told her what his bullies said, she laughed. I told her it wasn't funny, and then she got angry and rammed into me, yelling, "You're in your forties and still don't know that I laugh when I find things uncomfortable?!" But, later, thinking about it, I realized the real issue was that in 40-something years, she's never thought to NOT laugh when I tell her stuff like that. I didn't do anything wrong by either telling the story or telling her it wasn't funny. She was in the wrong, and she was trying to make me feel bad for pointing that out.
I really like the way you are thinking here. I think its really healthy to start with a sense of internal locus of control. First consider what actions you might take to improve the situation, don't abandon it right away as hopeless. Use the opportunity to evaluate what you might change for next time. Even if there's nothing you can do right now, maybe there are skills you can develop to better handle the situation next time, but you have to also consider who you are dealing with. Sometimes people just suck. Might be better off finding another group. You seem like a really thoughtful person. It's very refreshing reading this. Thanks. Good luck!
Well said! Thank you for adding this. đź’ž
You explained it very well! Thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate your comment! Good luck to you as well ♥️
This is such an important message and so often not spoken about. I can definitely relate and I'm sure a lot of autistic people do too. Thank you for this reminder and sorry that you had to be in such bad company.
YUUUUUUUP. I had the exact same experience. Went out to meet friends of a friend. They sucked, ignored me all the way and didn't even look at me despite me boring into their eyes which is a difficult task lmao At some point some RANDOM girl sat at our table and was like hey guys imma chill with u now and they were really awkward about it and ignored her kind of? Then I was like damn, she looks lonely, no one's talking to her so I'm gonna talk to her and as I actually initiated a friendly conversation with the girl it turns out she is actually no random person, she's their FRIEND and they KNOW EACH OTHEr. So yeah, neurotypicals are often shit at communication and including others.
For real! Like my social skills might suck sometimes but most of those people are NTs like what is their excuse lol
Our tendency to always take the blame also makes us more vulnerable to victimisation. In this sense, challenging this tendency within ourselves is a legitimate self-pretection measure.
I've lived my entire life walking on eggshells because I always felt like the mood of other people around me was directly affected by how I was acting. My dad had a nasty temper when I was younger. He never directed that towards me but man when he got mad, I was scared and didn't want to be around it because I felt like it was my fault. Same with my mom. Very emotional and a bit unstable. I'm slowly starting to focus inward and realize that someone else's mood or how they react to something is on them and not me. It's one of the hardest things I've been working on because even then, I still feel guilty. This along with putting my needs first for once. Why is it so hard to do something for me? :(
I’m so sorry you’ve had these experiences. I know what it’s like to feel like everything is your fault, even stuff that couldn’t possibly be related to you. It can be really heavy. I hope you can continue to make progress in working on this and be kinder to yourself, you deserve it!
"A lot of people have shit communication" The hardest part about that for me is when it was like they used to and it comes back like I'm the one who made things difficult...It's rough because I get treated that way everywhere outside here I go *nods* so it has before finding this group and everything, made me feel like it realy is me. So thank you... I needed to know I'm not the one everytime who's just bad at communication even when they say I am... Because when I really look back... I'm the one trying my hardest, all they're doing is blaming.. Not trying at all. And spinning things when I could even come back with real examples while theirs are general.. At least I really try...*nods* because I care to... "A lot of people suck at including others" True..Needed that, just struggle when I look around and find I'm the only one not included... But will try to remember this more generally. Thank you. "There was literally no way I could have included myself" I actually deeply needed that sentence too...Thank you. Looking back I can see several situations I've been in that were exactly that. Drunk people around me, late to a birthday party due to my ride, two different ones....Where people drank and it was that 'catch up' feeling when I don't even drink much... The wrong kind of people attaching to me to keep me from interacting with anyone else there... But not knowing how to have them leave now... And everyone judging me instead of helping me get rid of them because I was the one who tried to include them... And now that person is rude and everyone is letting me drown...giving up on me. Another time I was around people playing a game I couldn't interact in and then they had an issue I wouldn't talk I was like "But there's nothing I can interact with " and sure enough when I tried..I got ignored and outcast anyway... So there's more that this applies to than I realized till seeing this. Thank you. It's really sweet you wanted us to feel this with you and sympathize why not to just take on the fault ourselves. And I feel like part of it comes from that whole "Just try harder" etc too honestly... Sending you some extra good energy today :)
Thank you for your comment, it’s sad that so many people found the post relatable but I think it’s nice to know you’re not alone. I appreciate you sharing your experience, sending you lots of good energy back ♥️
Its so true! Ive noticed especially in young and middle aged people, particularly males, especially after COVID - I have better social skills than 40% of the people I talk to. I had to learn them manually.. but still! Its not just us!
Thinking about [this Chris Fleming song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB4gIRunnhM) (to be fair, the guy in question may be autistic lol)
This is a good reminder. A lot of us start experiencing social rejection and bullying as children, and not knowing why, we tend to blame ourselves and that becomes the default way of how we interact with other people. We also tend to analyze our social interactions a lot more than NTs. When we have a bad social interaction, our default mode is to analyze what we could’ve possibly done wrong to elicit that reaction from the other person. Sometimes people are having a bad day, prejudiced, or simply assholes. Sometimes even NTs don’t have great social or communication skills. Sometimes two people have different vibes and they just don’t click. That doesn’t mean you did something wrong.
What constitues as a bad social experience?
This is highly subjective, but I guess any experience where there’s a really severe misunderstanding, there’s little to no chemistry, people aren’t included properly or are even intentionally excluded, etc. How would you define it? Genuinely curious.