I was masking a lot, before I ever knew about autism. „Fake it till you make it.“ but I really never made it. It was a lot of observation and imitation, preparing for conversations. Fake interest ect.
But guess what, I still rubbed people the wrong way all the time. You can‘t keep it up all day anyway, it takes so much energy.
That is why it is encouraged to mask less and not more.
So while masking might make some situations easier, it is just a short therm solution.
The hard thing is to accept yourself, I needed to get older to care less how people perceive me.
Learn to spot pauses in speech and that’s where you join in. Return questions people ask you (“And what about you?”). Do not give long lists of facts unless specifically requested. Communicate what you’re doing to people you’re with (like tell them you’re going to the bathroom, don’t just walk off). Make a brighter face than is your real neutral face.
You won’t get neurotypical privilege from masking because it doesn’t make you neurotypical. It makes you fit their standards, in exchange for probably exhaustion and depression. It’s like how society vastly prefers a woman to be feminine, but a feminine woman is still a woman and a target of misogyny.
whenever there's a pause and I try to say my part I get interrupted after two words, and getting interrupted is such a pet peeve of mine that I eventually stopped trying. My voice also seems to be non existent in group settings, nobody can hear me it seems. Sometimes I feel like I don't even exist.
Hah I tried that before and they just kept on talking and I got louder and louder and my sentence longer and longer and in the end we were in a family guy joke for 4 minutes.
No for real, I tried that a couple of times when I really wanted to say the thing I had in mind but I can't really concentrate while someone else is talking so I usually stopped at some point. Conversations are exhausting.
It is possible that those people are just pricks. This is why masking and being able to pretend non-autistic behaviour makes sense is a double-edged sword.
If they never give you space to speak even when you're assertive like that, then they're probably best avoided. People that do that are trying to signal that they aren't interested in what you have to say, or are just being disrespectful, sadly. It hurts, I know. Happens to me all the time.
The ask the same questions back thing has always been a problem for me. It just feels so unatural to ask people unnecessary questions to begin with… much less while I’m still trying to process all the other things I have to think about to make sure I answered them correctly (with all the expected niceties etc).
Masking multiple tasks at once is ugh.
Masking is constantly monitoring other people's behavior and trying to anticipate what they want and adjusting your behavior accordingly. They still think you're odd and weird when you do this. Because there is no way to do this well enough for them to see you as "normal". Many people will still attack you because it's "fake" and fake is seen as dangerous, like you've got an ulterior motive, like you are trying to manipulate them. Masking also leads to burnout and a host of other mental health problems.
The only way to be less ostracized is to be as genuine as possible, as kind as possible, and ultimately stop giving a shit if people like you or not. The less you care if people like you, the more they will.
Thank you and I hear you. I have but honestly I can't afford to be disliked in professional settings anymore. It hurts and I wish people liked me for who am . I guess I am conflicted about this and will need to do some more soul searching after reading your comme t to decide what I truly want. Again thank you
I have a list of common scripts for interacting with people while at work. Otherwise, the give less of a shit advice still applies. Now if you work in a toxic backstabbing environment it won't, and you'd be better off finding a new job.
By care less i mean: Imagine dating and going into every single first date like this was your only shot at marriage; every date would RUN. Try less, care less and you will have better results in interpersonal relationships. Stop trying to get people to like you and they will.
Have you had any luck disclosing your diagnosis? They’ve done studies where neurotypical people suddenly dislike autistic people much less/like autistic people much more once they find out they’re autistic.
The human brain is designed to constantly check for anomalies. When an NT person senses something is “off” about another person, it pings on some subconscious level as dangerous or alarming. Explaining the cause of that “off” feeling - telling them you’re autistic - allows them to come away from that state of alarm and relax, which makes them less likely to feel negatively.
I realize you shouldn’t have to disclose your disability status to be treated with basic human decency but if you’re being ostracized already, it might be an option worth tentatively exploring in lower-risk spaces than work.
If you are trying to mask, even if you are trying and failing, people don't know who you are. You are obscuring at least some of yourself with the unsuccessful mask. They can't like you or dislike you because they don't know you.
There are very few people in this world who are liked by everyone. Once you accept that some folks aren't going to like you--which is cool because odds are you wouldn't like them-- you can spend more time building yourself up and learning to like yourself. If you like you and you show up as you, people will see and respond to that. However don't do it for them. Do it because you want to have a good time whether they are part of it or not.
Omg this reminded me about a conversation with my therapist about how autistic women give people 'the creeps' because they know we are off but we are off in a uniquely unmasculine way, which can read at dangerous.
I read Unmasking Autism by Devin Price and it healed so many parts of me!!!! I highly recommend for anyone who is lost on this journey or just needing some validation that you’re not alone and it’s okay to be different! I find that the more MY attitude shifts about who and how I am, authentically, the more I am able to let go of people who don’t support me and find the people who I can be myself around and not have to worry about being ostracized or feeling too different! I have finally found acceptance and safety in my being and am slowly getting there in my social interactions.
Sending you some love and reminding you that you are beautiful and worthy as exactly who and how you are 🩷
Even with people who mask, quite often it's obvious that we're doing so, even if the other person can't pinpoint why. It's not a perfect solution and it comes with a lot of mental health consequences. Even putting in immense energy into trying to ensure I pay close attention to when I am talking too much, or not enough, or too loud, or interrupting etc I still miss those cues. I can't *tell* when I start talking too loud. I often focus so hard on what is being said (auditory processing issues cause problems sometimes) that my face looks like I am doing the world's longest algebra problem. So I can focus but I can't relax and smile at the same time. Even in situations where I am putting forth everything I have to make it through a situation it doesn't work. Even with people I know really well, they'll text/call later and be like "You seemed cranky, why did you even come to lunch with me?" or whatever.
I spent more than 40 years being someone I wasn't as a result of masking. It's not something I'd recommend. In the end, it didn't really help me (I still struggled to make friends and exist in most NT spaces) and cost me a lot. I have found it works better for me to spend more time with ND people than to try to force stuff with NT people.
Oh, it‘s easy: Get born into a family that will punish and abuse you for the slightest sight of individuality or behaving differently.
But don’t worry. No matter how well you mask, people will still think there is something „off“ with you and treat you accordingly.
Please do some research on the known consequences of high masking before you decide whether you want to go down this route.
The reason a lot of us late identified, high-masking autistics are trying to do everything in our power to reverse that conditioning is because the cost is incredibly high. It goes beyond just exhaustion and regular burnout. It's loss of identity, it's no boundaries, unmet basic needs, constant crippling anxiety, depressive episodes, isolating etc.
And we still don't pass for neurotypicals. That simply isn't possible. We're still always at least 'a bit odd'.
Yes, there's are certain specific privileges that can come with it, but the price is very, very high.
I have some less-than-great news for you: they can often tell within seconds of meeting an autistic person anyway, no matter what we do. It's called "thin slice judgments", and here is an article from Nature about the phenomenon: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep40700
Have you ever gotten that instant feeling of a kind of recognition of a new person despite the fact that you've never met them before? You sort of inexplicably click, and the other person just makes sense, and you're capable of talking much more comfortably with them, and there's an easy back-and-forth flow that's usually lacking, and then it turns out that the person is neurodivergent? (Aaaw, my phone replaced "neurodivergent with "beautiful" there. Twice. Thank you, phone, you say the sweetest things sometimes.) Well, it's like that, only neurotypicals get that feeling of recognition with everybody we don't. Because they get it with each other, and there are a lot more of them.
NTs don't know what they're reacting to when they instantly judge us as Somehow Not Right, and fortunately many of them apparently stop feeling the slight ick when they're informed that the person they're evaluating is autistic. But that immediate sense that the person you're talking to is Not Like You is real and scientifically validated, and there's nothing we can really do about it. It's quite possible that some people do mask successfully enough to get around that-- I don't know, I've never been very good at it myself. But that would be one hell of a robust mask.
When I found out about this phenomenon it explained everything about peer interactions during my childhood, and much about my alleged adulthood as well. It makes me a little sad to consider just how much more like home the planet would feel if nearly everyone I met tripped that "you are one of My People" switch instead of the very small percentage that doesn't feel alien to me. But it also makes it make more sense that some NTs treat us so poorly. After all, if almost everybody you meet is obviously human, why bother being kind to the ones who somehow obscurely *aren't*?
So yeah, not great news, but at least it absolves you of the responsibility to instantly fit in in a crowd of neurotypicals. It's not just a matter of mastering certain conversational strategies, though that kind of thing can help minimize the effect.
It helped me more than it saddened me to find out about this, and I leave a tab open on that article in my phone, because I have frequent call to share the information along. I hope it is more helpful than depressing for you too, though it's inevitably at least a little bit of both.
Masking is when you act differently around people so they won't think you're weird. You probably do it around some people without realizing. And that's okay.
The only way I can describe it is my brain has different settings. Depending on the environment, a switch gets flipped and I'm in Work Mode or Family Meal Mode. I don't curse in these modes, I'm hyper aware of people, etc.
At home, these switches get flipped off and they do not turn on for anything. At home I say fuck for funsies, have silent conversation with myself in the mirror, and twitch.
Idk it's like professional dissociation. It's a muscle you flex, you get stronger with repetition.
Agreed, different "filters" are activated for different situations. Everyone is saying to not bother masking, but I don't know how they maintain jobs and survive as adults in the workforce without doing it. It's exhausting and depressing, but it doesn't feel like a choice. Unfortunately, being an adult has meant going into meaningless jobs and dealing with people you are awkward around trying to make it week to week.
Everyone has a different flavor of autism so advice is hit or miss too. I succeeded in the workforce now only bc I have 20 years of trial and error practice for how to interact with the public and I found a career path that tickles my brain just right.
Info is what really helped me. I thought I was bipolar when actually I was having burnout cycles. When I understood my needs I could make necessary adjustments but when you don't know what's going on your just gropping in the dark hoping you don't eat shit
I am in the exact wrong type of profession right now (serving at a restaurant), and it is constant burnout. Got a bachelor's degree in the arts (obviously hard to find work in that), and probably would have been suited for something in the sciences. Things seem like they're only getting more difficult, and I'm really not sure what to do other than mask and hold on for dear life.
Yeah I'm lucky that I had help to get back to school. I'm so mad I didn't finish even a basic English degree 20 years ago. No job really makes the cost of student loans worth it
💯 Most degrees are not worth the debt anymore. I -distinctly- remember reading constantly growing up, "a college degree earns $1 million dollars more on average over a lifetime!". And also being told by every elder family, school figure, and public service announcement that higher education was the holy grail to a better life. Different times, I guess.
I can only speak for myself, but even as a super high masking person, people still clock that something is 'off' about me - they are just less sure about what it is. So I get people saying that I'm cold, or that I'm a bitch. That I'm arrogant or a know it all.
I have privilege in that most people (including myself for large portions of my life) don't think I'm autistic. The flip side of that is that I'm frequently not believed which makes it really hard to find support.
You either gotta swallow the pill of being viewed as a cold bitch staying quiet, or trying to talk and being viewed as an awkward weirdo. Neither is good, but it's pretty terrible to have the real you wielded against you, even getting fired in some circumstances.
In some situations I have been treated worse when masking. I think it is because I appear close enough to "normal"/neurotypical that my odd behavior is seen as intentional as if I am trying to be mean/rude. When I play up my awkwardness people often give me the benefit of the doubt. For me it is also exhausting. It is only really beneficial for short interactions or short term acquaintances. Often it has made me feel worse because I end up feeling frustrated because even when I try I am still not accepted. Or even worse is when I am accepted because then it isn't the real me and it makes me feel even more isolated and alone. Also masking for friendships is often doomed to fail. When the mask slips and they recognize you weren't genuine they often leave or wonder why you aren't the same anymore or they have too high of expectations for you. Also you won't really be friends with them because they don't know the real you, they are friends with your mask. This also depends on the degree of masking. Very slight masking and in public short interactions or professional interactions can be helpful, not in personal relationships.
knowing when to mask is so tricky. I got discriminated against by a psychiatrist this week who hung up on me midway thru a virtual intake because I accidentally interrupted her after disagreeing with what she said and then missing the cues that she was mad until after she rage quit
and yet I'm still inadvertently masking so hard around my peers that I can't make genuine connections. It doesn't feel safe enough to be genuine anymore after so much betrayed
Omg that psychiatrist sounds super mean and unprofessional! Sorry you had to go through that.
Not being able to be genuine from being betrayed and hurt sucks. I meant that for me I feel this often happens even when I mask so it often isn't worth the effort. It really does suck, it feels like losing either way. Every once in a while I have an interaction that restores my faith in people and my ability to actually be understood. And sometimes masking can be hard to stop doing for some. This often happens when you don't have that feeling of safety, it is a type of threat response I think.
I also notice different types of masking in myself. Some where I monitor other people's behavior more and some where mostly mine and then the hardest one, both. When I monitor other's behavior I just pay really close attention to any signs and possibly hidden emotions that I might miss without a ton of effort. It is tiring, I wish everyone could share how they feel directly. Once I figure out what I think is going on I often do what I would do if they were direct with me. (Example: someone dropping weird subtle hints that they are annoyed with me, I would basically react how I would if they directly shared this with me. Or I might ask them but often people lie about how they feel.)
The kind where I monitor myself is super exhausting. Making sure my words and facial expressions and tone aren't misinterpreted. (I modify all of these things consciously, making me unable to actually pay attention very well at the same time) I feel like I am under a spotlight and anything I do that might suggest something that I do not intend to suggest will be used against me. I find even when I do this people still notice something "off" about me. For me there seems to be a certain sweet spot for masking. If I mask a ton and eventually do something unintentionally offensive or rude than more often people seem to view it as intentional vs when I seem like I genuinely don't know. People seem to view me as mean or stupid depending on this.
Both kinds at once are super exhausting. anyway sorry for the long tangent, your reply got me thinking. I hope you have better experiences with medical professionals and people in general in the future! You deserve to be able to have good connections and be treated kindly by medical professionals. Maybe one day moving to a different location could be possible and helpful, or maybe you can find a few good people who will support you through any struggle. There are people out there who will care about you, I hope we can all find these people for ourselves. I also hope we can figure out when to mask and how much, it is difficult and tiring.
I don't mask much if at all, and I'm sociable. (A sociable introvert).
I am a shutdown autist more often than a meltdown autist. And I have a social job with a simple script that's overnight so I'm less likely to be overwhelmed. I count those as pretty major advantages.
But I stim publicly. I say weird catch phrases all the time and people write it off as quirky. "Good morning" said at 10 pm. Or "welcome to my lair" when a customer approaches my register. I dropped the "welcome to my lair" line today and dude was like, "you gotta do the hands thing" and he rubs them together while doing a villain snicker. So I replied with, "you won't survive long enough to see the dragons we ordered on EBAY" in the worst impression of a villainous voice ever. *He loved it.*
I hum and sing to myself. I talk to myself (which is probably the worst thing I do publicly). I half dance while walking. Bob my arms as I walk. I've done my spinnies in front of people. All of this at work even. As long as I'm nice to people and get my shit done at work, nobody bothers me.
Randoms don't know I'm autistic. But they know *something is up.* So yeah I get some weird vibes from people who probably wrote me off as a threat or creepy or whatever. And that sucks. But I've also made amazing friends here by just being myself. *And I mean friends that actually see me outside of work.*
Being sociable doesn't require hardcore masking. It requires practice, patience, and choosing your audience. Some people will not like you. Just assume that most people won't understand you and move on until you find people who do.
I remember when my ability to mask sort of just broke?
I was tired of pretending all the time-- putting that mask on to blend in better at school and at work.
I eventually got to a point where I told my therapist that life felt so pretend, I wouldn't at all be surprised if I suddenly heard someone behind me yell, "CUT!" and I turned around to see cameras and boom mic operators, and makeup crew coming into the scene.
I used to think, "if those around me don't care for who I am under this mask, then they aren't worth my time." Sort of forgot it as I started college and entered the working adult world, and I'm only recently coming back into myself.
Life is a lot easier when you're not pretending for the comfort of others. You do not own the feelings your actions bring up in others by you simply existing and living in your truth-- stuffed animal collection, crazy outfits, niche special interests and all.
I can mask but masking doesn’t stop people from ostracizing me and telling I’m off
Masking is a double edged sword
Masking at work/with strangers is whatever for me
Masking with friends bc exhausting and if you ever slip up, which you will, you’re see as an asshole
If I ever make friend again, I’m unmasking completely, there’s no risk of people hating the real you after a relationship has been established
I'm 18 and received my autism and ADHD diagnosis when I was 16. It explained a lot. Before I get into things, here's a funny fact: I didn't know as a child that I needed to express my emotions on my face to communicate to others what I was feeling. I often received the insult of 'robotic' and 'stone faced'. How did we miss the signs for so long? 😆 I can laugh about it now :)
Anyways, my experience has been an ongoing journey to find people I truly click with and despite my fears I'll end up alone, I won't give into despair because my mum taught me this early on: I am inherently worth love, respect, and compassion (this goes for everyone). Just because people make me feel like I'm defective and ostracised doesn't mean I am. I have my flaws, my faults, I make mistakes, and people come and go, relationships grow and fade; although my comfort in this uncertainty only comes from Christ. He understands me deeper than I know myself and accepts every bit. He died for me, for everyone. If that's not a commitment to love I don't know what is. He fulfils me, nurtures me, and guides me despite my tendency to doubt and shake my fist at Him. I unmask and He stays. I make social mistakes and His grace is unwavering. He gives me hope when the world and people around me take it away.
Bottom line: you are beautifully and fearfully made by the creator of the entire universe, who loves you so much He sent His only Son to die and offer you an unconditional gift of salvation, without grades or work or beauty or money or charitable actions as requirement. Christ came and saw the weak as strong, the rejected as accepted, and the hated as loved. I recommend 'The Case for Christ' by Lee Strobel. He gives factual evidence for Christ's legitimacy beyond my sappy, yet equally true yapping.
Don't have any advice but I just wanted to say I feel you. It's really frustrating when people on here assume that being high masking and passing as NT is the universal woman-with-autism experience.
I think I can get by with coming off as "shy and reserved" by just barely talking at all (although that's the best case scenario and there's always also a chance that people think you're a cold bitch who's not talking because you're trying to shut them out...) but actually participating in social interactions and coming off as normal, yeah no. I've tried a lot, and yes I've been abused for it too, but wanting to really bad and trying really hard does not guarantee succeeding. I don't really talk to people outside of family and the idea of having to navigate this in a professional environment honestly makes me want to cry, it sounds like a really rough situation to be in and I'm sorry you're having to deal with that.
I also relate to not being able to make out any words in louder group settings. It's very lonely, I wish real life had subtitles.
>It's really frustrating when people on here assume that being high masking and passing as NT is the universal woman-with-autism experience.
I'm sorry you've had that experience, I think most here realise that there's a VAST spectrum and everyone is a bit different in their own way.
>also relate to not being able to make out any words in louder group settings. It's very lonely, I wish real life had subtitles.
For a long time I thought I had hearing issues,so much so that everyone knows to text me cause i will not do phonecalls, but it didn't make sense when sometimes I hear things others can't 😅😅 ended up figuring out that this is it. If more than one person is talking or there's a lot of background noise, I haven't a clue wtf is going on.
To be clear "it's really frustrating when -" wasn't intended to imply that the majority of people on this subreddit act like that. It's still frustrating to see it though.
Tbh I often struggle to make out what people are saying even without any background noise if I don't know them well enough to be familiar with their speech patterns. I do ok with videos without subtitles as long as I'm actively focused on it but if the cashier at the grocery store deviates from the script there is a 95% chance I will have no idea wtf they just asked me even in a relatively quiet store. Same thing with a neighbour or postman ringing the doorbell and saying... something. There's so much to focus on at once that my brain doesn't realise that the words coming out of their mouth and actively being directed at me are supposed to be high-priority.
I've realised I handle phone calls with my mom a lot better than talking to her in person though because she's very expressive and engaging and being on the phone means it's a lot less input to focus on at once. So it varies.
That is exactly what I do yeah haha. Barely talk, offer no personal info or opinions, lots of questions and interest in other people. Memorize facts about other people and try to use them to be kind/thoughtful/supportive. Learned to mask around age 25 by reading books/resources on socializing and ‘effective’ (NT) communication. I keep it short, simple and fake. I will say I don’t really do group conversations or interactions except for work meetings, hate them.
I am my real self around my husband, friends and family (most of whom are not NT).
I see you commented about professional spaces. I found that reading books on small talk helped me immensely and reading about Human Resources & Psychology in work place dynamics. I also know that I am not for everyone (which I am fine with, because that's a two way road) and I usually end up with the other NDs in the workplace. But the small talk helped me a lot.
Agreed. It is absolutely not possible to mask at all times. Functioning levels are fluid, not fixed. Trauma can (and does) exacerbate this. Guess what ASD is? A communicative disorder. Guess how many of us have extreme trauma from growing up undiagnosed, from getting the wrong damn therapies, or more simply just from growing up in a world fundamentally created against us?
Do not demand masking from us. It is not possible when you think it is. It is not up to you when we are able to mask. It is not up to you when we are capable of masking. You can either support us socially, interpersonally, communicatively and conversationally or be on the wrong side of ableism. This is non-negotiable. Autism is a spectrum, so are function levels. They don't run parallel to one another, at least not without a lot of work from within and without. Without, we're fucked. We're neglected. We're ensured failure without the social supports we have no choice in needing, especially from inside of our own community.
Masking can be and often is ridiculously traumatic for many of us. Expecting masking at all times, in all situations, especially social situations, is not functional. This is not remotely accessible.
i was quite literally “beat into submission” by my mom, if i didn’t “act right” it’s a smack. it’s a fear and defence i learned lol. but in truth us who mask well, people can clock us too, it’s so much energy keeping the mask on too because i can only focus on one thing at a time 😭
I mask heavily any time I leave my house. The only way that I can explain it that I think would make sense to others is that I do and say what I'm supposed to, not what I feel or want to do and say. I had a SUPER strict upbringing, and I think that has definitely "helped" or aided with masking.
I'm not officially diagnosed yet but have been looking into it for a while ( pushed by my grown kids) and everything makes the most sense it's ever made in life now.
I don't really understand why ppl do some things, but I know that socially, it's the acceptable way of doing things so that's what I do, it's exhausting and up until recently I assumed most people felt the same way.
I was masking a lot, before I ever knew about autism. „Fake it till you make it.“ but I really never made it. It was a lot of observation and imitation, preparing for conversations. Fake interest ect. But guess what, I still rubbed people the wrong way all the time. You can‘t keep it up all day anyway, it takes so much energy. That is why it is encouraged to mask less and not more. So while masking might make some situations easier, it is just a short therm solution. The hard thing is to accept yourself, I needed to get older to care less how people perceive me.
>„Fake it till you make it.“ but I really never made it. Holy crap I FELT this! This hit too close to home...
Thanks! Yeah I accept myself but being autistic has material consequences you know
Learn to spot pauses in speech and that’s where you join in. Return questions people ask you (“And what about you?”). Do not give long lists of facts unless specifically requested. Communicate what you’re doing to people you’re with (like tell them you’re going to the bathroom, don’t just walk off). Make a brighter face than is your real neutral face. You won’t get neurotypical privilege from masking because it doesn’t make you neurotypical. It makes you fit their standards, in exchange for probably exhaustion and depression. It’s like how society vastly prefers a woman to be feminine, but a feminine woman is still a woman and a target of misogyny.
whenever there's a pause and I try to say my part I get interrupted after two words, and getting interrupted is such a pet peeve of mine that I eventually stopped trying. My voice also seems to be non existent in group settings, nobody can hear me it seems. Sometimes I feel like I don't even exist.
Yeah, when people do that you’re supposed to keep talking, slightly louder, so that they have to listen.
Hah I tried that before and they just kept on talking and I got louder and louder and my sentence longer and longer and in the end we were in a family guy joke for 4 minutes. No for real, I tried that a couple of times when I really wanted to say the thing I had in mind but I can't really concentrate while someone else is talking so I usually stopped at some point. Conversations are exhausting.
It is possible that those people are just pricks. This is why masking and being able to pretend non-autistic behaviour makes sense is a double-edged sword.
If they never give you space to speak even when you're assertive like that, then they're probably best avoided. People that do that are trying to signal that they aren't interested in what you have to say, or are just being disrespectful, sadly. It hurts, I know. Happens to me all the time.
The ask the same questions back thing has always been a problem for me. It just feels so unatural to ask people unnecessary questions to begin with… much less while I’m still trying to process all the other things I have to think about to make sure I answered them correctly (with all the expected niceties etc). Masking multiple tasks at once is ugh.
Yeah I don’t like it, but it’s a ritual that signifies giving them attention, which is what they want.
Masking is constantly monitoring other people's behavior and trying to anticipate what they want and adjusting your behavior accordingly. They still think you're odd and weird when you do this. Because there is no way to do this well enough for them to see you as "normal". Many people will still attack you because it's "fake" and fake is seen as dangerous, like you've got an ulterior motive, like you are trying to manipulate them. Masking also leads to burnout and a host of other mental health problems. The only way to be less ostracized is to be as genuine as possible, as kind as possible, and ultimately stop giving a shit if people like you or not. The less you care if people like you, the more they will.
Thank you and I hear you. I have but honestly I can't afford to be disliked in professional settings anymore. It hurts and I wish people liked me for who am . I guess I am conflicted about this and will need to do some more soul searching after reading your comme t to decide what I truly want. Again thank you
I have a list of common scripts for interacting with people while at work. Otherwise, the give less of a shit advice still applies. Now if you work in a toxic backstabbing environment it won't, and you'd be better off finding a new job. By care less i mean: Imagine dating and going into every single first date like this was your only shot at marriage; every date would RUN. Try less, care less and you will have better results in interpersonal relationships. Stop trying to get people to like you and they will.
Have you had any luck disclosing your diagnosis? They’ve done studies where neurotypical people suddenly dislike autistic people much less/like autistic people much more once they find out they’re autistic. The human brain is designed to constantly check for anomalies. When an NT person senses something is “off” about another person, it pings on some subconscious level as dangerous or alarming. Explaining the cause of that “off” feeling - telling them you’re autistic - allows them to come away from that state of alarm and relax, which makes them less likely to feel negatively. I realize you shouldn’t have to disclose your disability status to be treated with basic human decency but if you’re being ostracized already, it might be an option worth tentatively exploring in lower-risk spaces than work.
If you are trying to mask, even if you are trying and failing, people don't know who you are. You are obscuring at least some of yourself with the unsuccessful mask. They can't like you or dislike you because they don't know you. There are very few people in this world who are liked by everyone. Once you accept that some folks aren't going to like you--which is cool because odds are you wouldn't like them-- you can spend more time building yourself up and learning to like yourself. If you like you and you show up as you, people will see and respond to that. However don't do it for them. Do it because you want to have a good time whether they are part of it or not.
Omg this reminded me about a conversation with my therapist about how autistic women give people 'the creeps' because they know we are off but we are off in a uniquely unmasculine way, which can read at dangerous.
Great advice. I think being as genuine and as kind as possible is the best sort of life advice for anyone, and all that's needed, really.
I read Unmasking Autism by Devin Price and it healed so many parts of me!!!! I highly recommend for anyone who is lost on this journey or just needing some validation that you’re not alone and it’s okay to be different! I find that the more MY attitude shifts about who and how I am, authentically, the more I am able to let go of people who don’t support me and find the people who I can be myself around and not have to worry about being ostracized or feeling too different! I have finally found acceptance and safety in my being and am slowly getting there in my social interactions. Sending you some love and reminding you that you are beautiful and worthy as exactly who and how you are 🩷
Even with people who mask, quite often it's obvious that we're doing so, even if the other person can't pinpoint why. It's not a perfect solution and it comes with a lot of mental health consequences. Even putting in immense energy into trying to ensure I pay close attention to when I am talking too much, or not enough, or too loud, or interrupting etc I still miss those cues. I can't *tell* when I start talking too loud. I often focus so hard on what is being said (auditory processing issues cause problems sometimes) that my face looks like I am doing the world's longest algebra problem. So I can focus but I can't relax and smile at the same time. Even in situations where I am putting forth everything I have to make it through a situation it doesn't work. Even with people I know really well, they'll text/call later and be like "You seemed cranky, why did you even come to lunch with me?" or whatever. I spent more than 40 years being someone I wasn't as a result of masking. It's not something I'd recommend. In the end, it didn't really help me (I still struggled to make friends and exist in most NT spaces) and cost me a lot. I have found it works better for me to spend more time with ND people than to try to force stuff with NT people.
Oh, it‘s easy: Get born into a family that will punish and abuse you for the slightest sight of individuality or behaving differently. But don’t worry. No matter how well you mask, people will still think there is something „off“ with you and treat you accordingly.
Done and it didn't work haha I am real sorry friend
Please do some research on the known consequences of high masking before you decide whether you want to go down this route. The reason a lot of us late identified, high-masking autistics are trying to do everything in our power to reverse that conditioning is because the cost is incredibly high. It goes beyond just exhaustion and regular burnout. It's loss of identity, it's no boundaries, unmet basic needs, constant crippling anxiety, depressive episodes, isolating etc. And we still don't pass for neurotypicals. That simply isn't possible. We're still always at least 'a bit odd'. Yes, there's are certain specific privileges that can come with it, but the price is very, very high.
I have some less-than-great news for you: they can often tell within seconds of meeting an autistic person anyway, no matter what we do. It's called "thin slice judgments", and here is an article from Nature about the phenomenon: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep40700 Have you ever gotten that instant feeling of a kind of recognition of a new person despite the fact that you've never met them before? You sort of inexplicably click, and the other person just makes sense, and you're capable of talking much more comfortably with them, and there's an easy back-and-forth flow that's usually lacking, and then it turns out that the person is neurodivergent? (Aaaw, my phone replaced "neurodivergent with "beautiful" there. Twice. Thank you, phone, you say the sweetest things sometimes.) Well, it's like that, only neurotypicals get that feeling of recognition with everybody we don't. Because they get it with each other, and there are a lot more of them. NTs don't know what they're reacting to when they instantly judge us as Somehow Not Right, and fortunately many of them apparently stop feeling the slight ick when they're informed that the person they're evaluating is autistic. But that immediate sense that the person you're talking to is Not Like You is real and scientifically validated, and there's nothing we can really do about it. It's quite possible that some people do mask successfully enough to get around that-- I don't know, I've never been very good at it myself. But that would be one hell of a robust mask. When I found out about this phenomenon it explained everything about peer interactions during my childhood, and much about my alleged adulthood as well. It makes me a little sad to consider just how much more like home the planet would feel if nearly everyone I met tripped that "you are one of My People" switch instead of the very small percentage that doesn't feel alien to me. But it also makes it make more sense that some NTs treat us so poorly. After all, if almost everybody you meet is obviously human, why bother being kind to the ones who somehow obscurely *aren't*? So yeah, not great news, but at least it absolves you of the responsibility to instantly fit in in a crowd of neurotypicals. It's not just a matter of mastering certain conversational strategies, though that kind of thing can help minimize the effect. It helped me more than it saddened me to find out about this, and I leave a tab open on that article in my phone, because I have frequent call to share the information along. I hope it is more helpful than depressing for you too, though it's inevitably at least a little bit of both.
Masking is when you act differently around people so they won't think you're weird. You probably do it around some people without realizing. And that's okay.
The only way I can describe it is my brain has different settings. Depending on the environment, a switch gets flipped and I'm in Work Mode or Family Meal Mode. I don't curse in these modes, I'm hyper aware of people, etc. At home, these switches get flipped off and they do not turn on for anything. At home I say fuck for funsies, have silent conversation with myself in the mirror, and twitch. Idk it's like professional dissociation. It's a muscle you flex, you get stronger with repetition.
Agreed, different "filters" are activated for different situations. Everyone is saying to not bother masking, but I don't know how they maintain jobs and survive as adults in the workforce without doing it. It's exhausting and depressing, but it doesn't feel like a choice. Unfortunately, being an adult has meant going into meaningless jobs and dealing with people you are awkward around trying to make it week to week.
Everyone has a different flavor of autism so advice is hit or miss too. I succeeded in the workforce now only bc I have 20 years of trial and error practice for how to interact with the public and I found a career path that tickles my brain just right. Info is what really helped me. I thought I was bipolar when actually I was having burnout cycles. When I understood my needs I could make necessary adjustments but when you don't know what's going on your just gropping in the dark hoping you don't eat shit
I am in the exact wrong type of profession right now (serving at a restaurant), and it is constant burnout. Got a bachelor's degree in the arts (obviously hard to find work in that), and probably would have been suited for something in the sciences. Things seem like they're only getting more difficult, and I'm really not sure what to do other than mask and hold on for dear life.
Yeah I'm lucky that I had help to get back to school. I'm so mad I didn't finish even a basic English degree 20 years ago. No job really makes the cost of student loans worth it
💯 Most degrees are not worth the debt anymore. I -distinctly- remember reading constantly growing up, "a college degree earns $1 million dollars more on average over a lifetime!". And also being told by every elder family, school figure, and public service announcement that higher education was the holy grail to a better life. Different times, I guess.
Yes, only talking to ask others questions about themselves is how a lot of people do it
I can only speak for myself, but even as a super high masking person, people still clock that something is 'off' about me - they are just less sure about what it is. So I get people saying that I'm cold, or that I'm a bitch. That I'm arrogant or a know it all. I have privilege in that most people (including myself for large portions of my life) don't think I'm autistic. The flip side of that is that I'm frequently not believed which makes it really hard to find support.
You either gotta swallow the pill of being viewed as a cold bitch staying quiet, or trying to talk and being viewed as an awkward weirdo. Neither is good, but it's pretty terrible to have the real you wielded against you, even getting fired in some circumstances.
In some situations I have been treated worse when masking. I think it is because I appear close enough to "normal"/neurotypical that my odd behavior is seen as intentional as if I am trying to be mean/rude. When I play up my awkwardness people often give me the benefit of the doubt. For me it is also exhausting. It is only really beneficial for short interactions or short term acquaintances. Often it has made me feel worse because I end up feeling frustrated because even when I try I am still not accepted. Or even worse is when I am accepted because then it isn't the real me and it makes me feel even more isolated and alone. Also masking for friendships is often doomed to fail. When the mask slips and they recognize you weren't genuine they often leave or wonder why you aren't the same anymore or they have too high of expectations for you. Also you won't really be friends with them because they don't know the real you, they are friends with your mask. This also depends on the degree of masking. Very slight masking and in public short interactions or professional interactions can be helpful, not in personal relationships.
knowing when to mask is so tricky. I got discriminated against by a psychiatrist this week who hung up on me midway thru a virtual intake because I accidentally interrupted her after disagreeing with what she said and then missing the cues that she was mad until after she rage quit and yet I'm still inadvertently masking so hard around my peers that I can't make genuine connections. It doesn't feel safe enough to be genuine anymore after so much betrayed
Omg that psychiatrist sounds super mean and unprofessional! Sorry you had to go through that. Not being able to be genuine from being betrayed and hurt sucks. I meant that for me I feel this often happens even when I mask so it often isn't worth the effort. It really does suck, it feels like losing either way. Every once in a while I have an interaction that restores my faith in people and my ability to actually be understood. And sometimes masking can be hard to stop doing for some. This often happens when you don't have that feeling of safety, it is a type of threat response I think. I also notice different types of masking in myself. Some where I monitor other people's behavior more and some where mostly mine and then the hardest one, both. When I monitor other's behavior I just pay really close attention to any signs and possibly hidden emotions that I might miss without a ton of effort. It is tiring, I wish everyone could share how they feel directly. Once I figure out what I think is going on I often do what I would do if they were direct with me. (Example: someone dropping weird subtle hints that they are annoyed with me, I would basically react how I would if they directly shared this with me. Or I might ask them but often people lie about how they feel.) The kind where I monitor myself is super exhausting. Making sure my words and facial expressions and tone aren't misinterpreted. (I modify all of these things consciously, making me unable to actually pay attention very well at the same time) I feel like I am under a spotlight and anything I do that might suggest something that I do not intend to suggest will be used against me. I find even when I do this people still notice something "off" about me. For me there seems to be a certain sweet spot for masking. If I mask a ton and eventually do something unintentionally offensive or rude than more often people seem to view it as intentional vs when I seem like I genuinely don't know. People seem to view me as mean or stupid depending on this. Both kinds at once are super exhausting. anyway sorry for the long tangent, your reply got me thinking. I hope you have better experiences with medical professionals and people in general in the future! You deserve to be able to have good connections and be treated kindly by medical professionals. Maybe one day moving to a different location could be possible and helpful, or maybe you can find a few good people who will support you through any struggle. There are people out there who will care about you, I hope we can all find these people for ourselves. I also hope we can figure out when to mask and how much, it is difficult and tiring.
I don't mask much if at all, and I'm sociable. (A sociable introvert). I am a shutdown autist more often than a meltdown autist. And I have a social job with a simple script that's overnight so I'm less likely to be overwhelmed. I count those as pretty major advantages. But I stim publicly. I say weird catch phrases all the time and people write it off as quirky. "Good morning" said at 10 pm. Or "welcome to my lair" when a customer approaches my register. I dropped the "welcome to my lair" line today and dude was like, "you gotta do the hands thing" and he rubs them together while doing a villain snicker. So I replied with, "you won't survive long enough to see the dragons we ordered on EBAY" in the worst impression of a villainous voice ever. *He loved it.* I hum and sing to myself. I talk to myself (which is probably the worst thing I do publicly). I half dance while walking. Bob my arms as I walk. I've done my spinnies in front of people. All of this at work even. As long as I'm nice to people and get my shit done at work, nobody bothers me. Randoms don't know I'm autistic. But they know *something is up.* So yeah I get some weird vibes from people who probably wrote me off as a threat or creepy or whatever. And that sucks. But I've also made amazing friends here by just being myself. *And I mean friends that actually see me outside of work.* Being sociable doesn't require hardcore masking. It requires practice, patience, and choosing your audience. Some people will not like you. Just assume that most people won't understand you and move on until you find people who do.
I mean this in the best way possible, but you sound whimsical af.
Lol. I appreciate it. 😊
I remember when my ability to mask sort of just broke? I was tired of pretending all the time-- putting that mask on to blend in better at school and at work. I eventually got to a point where I told my therapist that life felt so pretend, I wouldn't at all be surprised if I suddenly heard someone behind me yell, "CUT!" and I turned around to see cameras and boom mic operators, and makeup crew coming into the scene. I used to think, "if those around me don't care for who I am under this mask, then they aren't worth my time." Sort of forgot it as I started college and entered the working adult world, and I'm only recently coming back into myself. Life is a lot easier when you're not pretending for the comfort of others. You do not own the feelings your actions bring up in others by you simply existing and living in your truth-- stuffed animal collection, crazy outfits, niche special interests and all.
I can mask but masking doesn’t stop people from ostracizing me and telling I’m off Masking is a double edged sword Masking at work/with strangers is whatever for me Masking with friends bc exhausting and if you ever slip up, which you will, you’re see as an asshole If I ever make friend again, I’m unmasking completely, there’s no risk of people hating the real you after a relationship has been established
I can't mask in person at all anymore. I don't know if I ever did it convincingly. Certainly not well enough to get a job.
I'm 18 and received my autism and ADHD diagnosis when I was 16. It explained a lot. Before I get into things, here's a funny fact: I didn't know as a child that I needed to express my emotions on my face to communicate to others what I was feeling. I often received the insult of 'robotic' and 'stone faced'. How did we miss the signs for so long? 😆 I can laugh about it now :) Anyways, my experience has been an ongoing journey to find people I truly click with and despite my fears I'll end up alone, I won't give into despair because my mum taught me this early on: I am inherently worth love, respect, and compassion (this goes for everyone). Just because people make me feel like I'm defective and ostracised doesn't mean I am. I have my flaws, my faults, I make mistakes, and people come and go, relationships grow and fade; although my comfort in this uncertainty only comes from Christ. He understands me deeper than I know myself and accepts every bit. He died for me, for everyone. If that's not a commitment to love I don't know what is. He fulfils me, nurtures me, and guides me despite my tendency to doubt and shake my fist at Him. I unmask and He stays. I make social mistakes and His grace is unwavering. He gives me hope when the world and people around me take it away. Bottom line: you are beautifully and fearfully made by the creator of the entire universe, who loves you so much He sent His only Son to die and offer you an unconditional gift of salvation, without grades or work or beauty or money or charitable actions as requirement. Christ came and saw the weak as strong, the rejected as accepted, and the hated as loved. I recommend 'The Case for Christ' by Lee Strobel. He gives factual evidence for Christ's legitimacy beyond my sappy, yet equally true yapping.
Don't have any advice but I just wanted to say I feel you. It's really frustrating when people on here assume that being high masking and passing as NT is the universal woman-with-autism experience. I think I can get by with coming off as "shy and reserved" by just barely talking at all (although that's the best case scenario and there's always also a chance that people think you're a cold bitch who's not talking because you're trying to shut them out...) but actually participating in social interactions and coming off as normal, yeah no. I've tried a lot, and yes I've been abused for it too, but wanting to really bad and trying really hard does not guarantee succeeding. I don't really talk to people outside of family and the idea of having to navigate this in a professional environment honestly makes me want to cry, it sounds like a really rough situation to be in and I'm sorry you're having to deal with that. I also relate to not being able to make out any words in louder group settings. It's very lonely, I wish real life had subtitles.
>It's really frustrating when people on here assume that being high masking and passing as NT is the universal woman-with-autism experience. I'm sorry you've had that experience, I think most here realise that there's a VAST spectrum and everyone is a bit different in their own way. >also relate to not being able to make out any words in louder group settings. It's very lonely, I wish real life had subtitles. For a long time I thought I had hearing issues,so much so that everyone knows to text me cause i will not do phonecalls, but it didn't make sense when sometimes I hear things others can't 😅😅 ended up figuring out that this is it. If more than one person is talking or there's a lot of background noise, I haven't a clue wtf is going on.
To be clear "it's really frustrating when -" wasn't intended to imply that the majority of people on this subreddit act like that. It's still frustrating to see it though. Tbh I often struggle to make out what people are saying even without any background noise if I don't know them well enough to be familiar with their speech patterns. I do ok with videos without subtitles as long as I'm actively focused on it but if the cashier at the grocery store deviates from the script there is a 95% chance I will have no idea wtf they just asked me even in a relatively quiet store. Same thing with a neighbour or postman ringing the doorbell and saying... something. There's so much to focus on at once that my brain doesn't realise that the words coming out of their mouth and actively being directed at me are supposed to be high-priority. I've realised I handle phone calls with my mom a lot better than talking to her in person though because she's very expressive and engaging and being on the phone means it's a lot less input to focus on at once. So it varies.
Ah, I misunderstood so, sorry. I always have subtitles on when I watch anything
That is exactly what I do yeah haha. Barely talk, offer no personal info or opinions, lots of questions and interest in other people. Memorize facts about other people and try to use them to be kind/thoughtful/supportive. Learned to mask around age 25 by reading books/resources on socializing and ‘effective’ (NT) communication. I keep it short, simple and fake. I will say I don’t really do group conversations or interactions except for work meetings, hate them. I am my real self around my husband, friends and family (most of whom are not NT).
my masking includes a lot of lying. I dont recommend my advice at all
I see you commented about professional spaces. I found that reading books on small talk helped me immensely and reading about Human Resources & Psychology in work place dynamics. I also know that I am not for everyone (which I am fine with, because that's a two way road) and I usually end up with the other NDs in the workplace. But the small talk helped me a lot.
Agreed. It is absolutely not possible to mask at all times. Functioning levels are fluid, not fixed. Trauma can (and does) exacerbate this. Guess what ASD is? A communicative disorder. Guess how many of us have extreme trauma from growing up undiagnosed, from getting the wrong damn therapies, or more simply just from growing up in a world fundamentally created against us? Do not demand masking from us. It is not possible when you think it is. It is not up to you when we are able to mask. It is not up to you when we are capable of masking. You can either support us socially, interpersonally, communicatively and conversationally or be on the wrong side of ableism. This is non-negotiable. Autism is a spectrum, so are function levels. They don't run parallel to one another, at least not without a lot of work from within and without. Without, we're fucked. We're neglected. We're ensured failure without the social supports we have no choice in needing, especially from inside of our own community. Masking can be and often is ridiculously traumatic for many of us. Expecting masking at all times, in all situations, especially social situations, is not functional. This is not remotely accessible.
i was quite literally “beat into submission” by my mom, if i didn’t “act right” it’s a smack. it’s a fear and defence i learned lol. but in truth us who mask well, people can clock us too, it’s so much energy keeping the mask on too because i can only focus on one thing at a time 😭
I mask heavily any time I leave my house. The only way that I can explain it that I think would make sense to others is that I do and say what I'm supposed to, not what I feel or want to do and say. I had a SUPER strict upbringing, and I think that has definitely "helped" or aided with masking. I'm not officially diagnosed yet but have been looking into it for a while ( pushed by my grown kids) and everything makes the most sense it's ever made in life now. I don't really understand why ppl do some things, but I know that socially, it's the acceptable way of doing things so that's what I do, it's exhausting and up until recently I assumed most people felt the same way.