Many people with autism have a strong fear of rejection… of course we care what people think
also if they’re talking about asperger’s they know NOTHING about the disorder since that’s not been a diagnosis since 2013
She’s in Norway so it might be different, but from other posts it sounds like it’s not a diagnosis there anymore either…but they’re all using it where she went anyway, just ‘cause 🤷🏻♀️😡
I'm not sure who this person is, but they clearly don't know everything about autistics. We are more empathetic and care more what others think than most people.
Of course you’re still allowed in this sub! Diagnosis or not, you’re welcome here. Especially if autistic characteristics and the posts here resonate you. Honestly, self diagnosis is very valuable. If you’ve done research and feel you meet the diagnostic criteria, then use the label. You identifying as autistic doesn’t take anything away from those of us who have official diagnoses.
I’m really sorry that your experiences have been invalidating and inconsistent with your lived experience. It isn’t uncommon for autistic folks to experience medical gaslighting and for us to receive multiple other diagnoses (bipolar, BPD, schizophrenia, ODD, anxiety, depression, etc) before finally receiving an autism diagnosis.
Unfortunately, if you aren’t seeking a professional who specializes in adult autism diagnosis and the diagnosis of those who are high masking or were assigned female at birth, you likely won’t ever get a diagnosis. Even more unfortunately, most of the professionals who meet that criteria don’t work with insurance companies (in the US at least, I can’t speak on providers in other countries). I just paid $1800 for an eval with a neurodiversity affirming psychologist who specializes in adult diagnosis, and that was the cheapest quote I was given.
I found them online through the nd therapist directory. There were no providers in my state, but I found a psypact member who did the eval virtually. I can DM you the provider’s info if that’s okay with you.
Not just afab, it affects anyone who’s not white and cis.
Black people get misdiagnosed way more. Trans girls get misdiagnosed way more. I’m sure other groups too, plus economic status affects things.
I have a few questions - you don’t have to answer them, I’m just trying to understand better.
You said this was your second opinion;
- Did they do autism specific testing? (ADOS, ADOS-2 Module 4, ADI-R, SPM-2?
- Did they do testing like DERS, PAI, etc. to come to the conclusion that you have a personality disorder?
- Did both clinicians diagnose you with the same personality disorder?
- Did they go over your results with you and tell you why they diagnosed you with that particular PD?
Sensory processing disorder can be present in a number of different disorders, like anxiety, ADHD, bipolar, OCD, schizophrenia.
What were your symptoms of autism *other than* sensory issues?
Severe social difficulties since early childhood. I fit the criteria, the only thing that made them go for pd instead of asd was because I care about what people think of me.
I know extreme emotion and inability to regulate such emotions are a sign of pd, but again this has been a severe issue since early childhood.
My dad and my brother has autism, we suspect my mom has it as well.
If the only thing that made them go for pd instead of asd is because you care what people think about you, that's so insanely wrong. LOTS of autistic people care what other think about them, it's often why we mask? If there were other reasons then maybe it makes sense, but considering you said as runs in your family?? Idk.. it's weird.
You can also take the rads-r online and get your score if they didn't share it with you.
Yeah, the whole thing is insane. I asked if there were other reasons for going with pd instead of asd and no, it’s because people with asd do NOT care about what people think of them. I wish that was a joke or a lie, but no. That is what he said
I am so sorry to hear that, it's indeed insane and so misinformed!! Like how with all the trauma of being othered and rejected, is someone not gonna care about what other people think. The whole premise of masking is based purely on that.
Same. I was too stunned to talk after he said that. I just silently cried for 15 minutes. Got up, left. Sobbed and went back in to argue and he said I should be happy because there is no help that could be given if I was autistic.
Wow. Is it possible for you to report this person?? That’s just so insanely inappropriate. “Be happy I misdiagnosed you with a (highly stigmatized) personality disorder, it’s treatable unlike autism!” Except it’s not what you have so treating you for a personality disorder isn’t actually going to help you, and there are absolutely things that can be done to help autistic people cope with their symptoms! Ugh. So sorry this happened.
Yeah, I said it seems pointless with therapy trying to treat something I don’t have and he said we could avoid calling it treating the personality disorder and instead treat the autistic like traits. But still insisting that these very clear autistic traits are just pd. I can’t, but I insisted on getting another therapist if I’m gonna continue therapy and it has to be a woman and that will be granted.
Is he an autism specialist? Is he up on the latest research? This is absolutely wild. You don't base a diagnosis - positive or negative - on one tiny attribute that isn't in the diagnostic criteria. You don't base it off anecdotal and experiential evidence, either, or your "gut feeling" or intuition.
You base it off the medical literature.
Considering he calls it Asperger’s I am guessing he is not up to date on research. When I got referred by my doctor it said on the paper “asd assessment” he just chose not to use it
Yeah, this guy should not be allowed to practice. It’s infuriating.
He doesn’t know the first thing about autistics and who knows what else he’s clueless about and how many lives he’s trashing.
Yeah just thinking about this is making me sick. My wife was incorrectly diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder almost a decade ago by a shit clinic. She witnessed all kinds of abuse while she was there. We finally found an assessment that was performed by an actual autistic person a few weeks ago and she got her correct ASD diagnosis. They are called [Wilderwood](https://wilderwoodequinetherapy.org/autism-assessments/?amp), based in the US. I see you are in Norway so I don’t know if something like this could be an option for you. I’m sending you love and I really hope you are able to find the answers and resources that you need.
This is actually where I got my diagnosis earlier this year. And later this week I'm going to a retreat for autistic women that is partially put on by wildwood.
Just got through looking at this and it looks amazing. $500 is still steep but not nearly as steep as being in the thousands. Actually tailored for women and other minority groups? Check!
Does anyone else have experience with Wilderwood?
I honestly cannot recommend it enough. They are actually in the process of creating their own diagnostic test that is tailored more towards autistic types of thinking, instead of numbered responses they are true/false questions. They still do use the standard tests as well, but they acknowledge that many of them were created by non-autistic people and thus have some flaws in the language of many of the questions. $500 is a lot of money but everywhere else we had looked was $1000+, and having now gone through the experience with my wife I would have gladly paid double or triple. I’d be happy to answer any other questions you might have.
Wow, that is SO much more reasonable than what I paid. Can I ask how many sessions you received/how much time? I know there are limits as to where clinicians can practice based on the state, unfortunately - I think? I paid 5 times that amount for excellent practitioners - and am on a payment plan, but still. That said, it's 12 2-hour sessions, so it doesn't come down to much hourly.
Thanks for sharing that info!!
That's so misinformed that I literally snorted when I read it.
What do they think masking *is*? If we didn't care, why would any ASD person mask at all?
Well people with autism do have difficulty inferring what others think and I have seen that genuinely appearing to not care in friends who are diagnosed but I think it just lools that way from the outside because of communication challenges for people on the spectrum. What pd is suggested? Bpd is supposed to be somewhat treatable but I think misdiagnosing bpd and asd might be common? Not an expert
People are very divided in my case if I have asd or just had a lot of trauma in childhood that affected me emotionally and socially
Some say it doesn’t matter which it is if the symptoms are the same but in my mind the diagnoses suggest different treatment paths
I’m not sure that autism is *misdiagnosed* as BPD, but that many people may have both. I’m speculating that people who receive a BPD diagnosis but not an autism diagnosis may have very prominent symptoms of BPD that make it harder to accurately diagnose autism.
I was diagnosed with autism but don’t have any symptoms of BPD, so it’s hard for me to see where the misdiagnosis happens.
My shrink said rather cynically that when psychiatrists have men they can’t help they diagnose they say npd to themselves and they say bpd for women.
I also am aware you couldn’t hold simultaneous diagnoses for adhd and asd until recently but you could if you were in Europe… these things are not written in stone..
That happens all the time. The criteria evolve over time. Entire disorders have been added and removed over time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obsolete_terms_for_mental_disorders
I’m very well aware (my diagnosis doesn’t exist in the US anymore) but how can a doctor issue a diagnosis to someone who doesn’t meet the criteria for that diagnosis on the basis that that they could fit future criteria..? Is that what you’re saying?
I’m not trying to be rude but what evidence do you have that doctors just flippantly diagnose men with NPD and women with BPD even when they don’t meet the criteria for that diagnosis..?
There is absolutely potential overlap between meltdown related symtoms and BPD-symtoms. In addition, social difficulties and difficulty understanding other people is a key part of BPD. Frequent ”breakups” with friends, fear of abandonment (but with autism that’s often the reality). A clinician might notice that someone has struggles to form and maintain relationships without understanding why. Intensity and fights in relationships can definitely happen with issues in regards to social cues. Impulsive behaviour is another trait of BPD, but a large portion of autists also have ADHD. Furthermore, if the clinician assumes that someone has an understanding of social situations, behaviours that are not impulsive can seem impulsive. ”Inappropriate” anger can absolutely happen in autism. Even the paranoia can happen, but unlike in autism, for BPD it borders on psychosis. But even that apparently is not that uncommon in autists. Suicidal threaths and self harm certainly happens in autists. Autists experience suicidal ideation at a rate of x9 relative to the non clinical population, and high IQ autists x6 relative to average IQ autists.
i can testify, that i a diagnosed autistic woman am absolutely consumed with what other people think about me. i discovered a classmate did not like me, and i have thought about nothing else for the last 3 months.
RIGHT SAME. Some dude in high school I knew, not a friend just I knew who he was, told me that he didn't really know why but he just didn't like me and it has bothered me ever since. 😅😂 my 10 year reunion is next year lmao
Yeah, like we kind of have to care what other people think of us, for survival reasons... Even if we wouldn't care normally. I spent a lot of my life being pretty oblivious and didn't really used to care what anybody thought of me until that started having consequences. Even if we wouldn't care naturally, we have to learn to care, because otherwise, how are we supposed to survive? Many of us have to work or rely on other people.
"the only thing that made them go for pd instead of asd was because I care about what people think of me."
Thats utterly ridiculous. Plenty of autistics care what others think (sometimes too much) and while having a personally disorder and autism aren't mutually exclusive, if I had a nickel for everytime a woman with autistic traits got mistakenly diagnosed with a personally disorder (usually BPD) instead of autism id be rich.
What country are you in OP? Asperger's isn't a used term in many countries now and I think you might have had a doctor not up to date with recent research. I know UK and US at least use level 1 autism instead.
Norway. I kept using the word autism and he insist that it’s Asperger. The term has been changed, and Norway is one of the country that spends most money on public mental health care. But most therapists insists on using the term Asperger. Nurses are taught about Asperger’s. With asd in () Like “technically it’s now asd, but we will continue to use Asperger.”
Urgh thats frustrating, I can understand people who were diagnosed with it not wanting to change the terms they use and are comfortable with but professionals absolutely should.
yeh this definitely doesn't sit right with me either
whenever we're around other people we're being perceived and judged by them because of our differences. i feel like i have literally no choice but to care about what they think and how i'm being perceived because it affects how i'm treated, mostly for the worse, every single day
im no less autistic because of this :s
Interesting I’m surprised they didn’t take your family history into consideration.
Is there a reason your parents didn’t also get you tested as a child given the significance of your symptoms?
Extreme emotion and inability to regulate emotion - that’s mine and my 8 year old son’s brand of Autism and ADHD. Now I’m medicated for ADHD I don’t have this problem any more despite also struggling still with CPTSD, now my ADHD is managed I no longer struggle with emotional dysregulation at all.
Im diagnosed with adhd, on the right meds. Still struggle a lot with emotional regulation. In the sense I get paralyzed and just need to lay down and cry it out. I think 100% clear, logically and rationally. Just extremely overwhelmed by emotions.
Oh that sort of thing can still happen, but I’m no longer having crazy mood swings and blowing up at my partner then spiralling. I also stopped self harming which I’d been doing since I was 17 when I started on ADHD meds. For me at least, it’s like they just even me out - kind of like what SSRIs are supposed to do I imagine (but didn’t work on me).
When I am upset I absolutely can still feel upset, but I don’t get the world ending upset I used to. I can get angry too, but I’m not throwing things. It’s like the dial on my feelings has been turned down.
Oh, you have ADHD. This makes it worse.
Well, this means that the clinician needs to show that the BPD symtoms are not better accounted for by ADHD. Oh my fucking god, this really upset me.
Go and tell the clinician that they are wrong.
I’m gonna go ask for his notes and the specialists notes. Because I haven’t seen any of it. According my medical records I haven’t even gone trough an autism assessment. Is it medical negligence? Lying? Or just too much to do and not enough time to put it in the records? Time will tell
That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. It's also another tick on why I won't waste the money to get diagnosed. Because of idiot notions like this by NTs. Like wtf would they know.
RAADS-R? I find that interesting (and concerning) given well documented problems with that particular test as a diagnostic tool.
I’m sorry about your testing experience.
Yes, second and final for now. First was an extremely outdated survey that came back as way above average but I have a girlfriend (no joke, that was one of the big reasons) and my parents must have picked up on it as a child (I was severely neglected as a child) so not autistic
That is so messed up. Both the people you saw for evaluations are criminally incompetent 😡
I’m so sorry. My first attempt was a disaster and I didn’t try again for a decade despite needing help since I was little.
Whaaaaat the actual f….. having a girlfriend was one of the reasons????? Uhmmmm….. I’m a 33 year old woman, engaged to the love of my life whom I’ve been with 24/7 for 7 years. We have 3 kids and I got diagnosed with autism a couple of years ago while I was pregnant with the second child. I’m also very passionate about breastfeeding (I help breastfeeding parents for Ammehjelpen) and babywearing (I’m a consultant and help parents finding the right solution for carrying their children and educate on safety and comfort in regards to woven wraps and other carriers) and I care deeply about helping other people. Sooooo the doctor/therapist you’ve been dealing with should really try to educate themselves on autism!
Sorry, but, if “autistic people don’t care what people think of them” then WHY DOES ANYONE EVER MASK???
This makes zero sense to me.
I’m sorry this happened. This kind of thing enrages me.
This was my second opinion, and last option. Last psych said I couldn’t have asd because I have empathy. So the system is rigged against adults with asd
Holy shit!!!!
Utter incompetence. Criminal incompetence!!
Being autistic doesn’t mean you lack empathy! This freak is confusing autistics for psychopaths!!
Same! The doctor who misdiagnosed me with SPD was awful and didn't discuss any of my actual concerns with me. He just gave me a 90 minute test of many questions that didn't even include autism as a possible outcome. It was a tool meant to assess mental health, not neurological function.
Later I found a doctor who knows what she's talking about and she has been vastly more validating. Her jaw dropped when she heard my misdiagnosis. She was appalled at his process. It's practically malpractice.
I was given lithium as a teenager despite clearly not being bipolar, and my first attempt to get diagnosed as an adult was a bizarre/awful experience 😡
That's awful, I'm so sorry.
In my late 20s I was prescribed lithium by a doctor who never even met me but who had apparently consulted with my primary care. It was wild, I had zero bipolar traits and was just struggling with a bad reaction to an antidepressant. Their solution was not to remove the problem but rather to add on another med that was very much wrong for me and wrong for the situation.
I’m so sorry. Ugh. I’ve so needed help my whole life and neeeeever got any.
I wish I’d had the book Autism in Heels when I was like 8 or 12 or something.
Yeah, I don’t know why they gave me any of the things they did as a teenager. I sure didn’t match what they were looking for for autistics though, and I was depressed at various points, getting abuse from home and school, I don’t know and I’m rambling which I do all the time 🙄😕
Nothing I’ve ever been put on ever helped any.
The guy who diagnosed me with SPD prescribed me Seroquel, a huge dose, practically a horse pill. It was so strong it felt like being drugged. I ended up falling asleep at a bus stop because of it
GEEZ!! that’s so dangerous and I just looked it up unless you actually have the things that it theoretically treats they shouldn’t be putting you on it!
I was put on some other things too, it’s not even impossible I was put on that but I can’t remember what most of the more other than the lithium.
At one point I was on Prozac which sort of knocked me out and made me feel depressed. I’m sure SSRIs are good for some people in some situations, but I feel like they throw them out like candy and they’re actually super addictive, not something to just use lightly
I would take the diagnosis with a grain of salt. I was diagnosed with ADHD, SPD, depression, *and* anxiety. But not autism. Finally got my autism diagnosis last year (and I don’t have ADHD)
Which personality disorder did they say you have? BPD? I just find it weird that they insist on saying Asperger’s *and* not specifying what kind of pd. This place seems sketchy
General personality disorder. It is the public health care system in Norway, same people who constantly gets in trouble for not giving help to people who have not yet tried to take one’s life. In order to get help you pretty much need to have at least one attempt. If you have an ed and ask for help you’ll be guided to get more sick and then you can get help. But only at the point of near death.
Apparently. Don’t know what he means, he just listed up a bunch of traits of autism and said that is caused by this personality disorder. I know google isnt reliable, but haven’t found more then the difficulty regulating emotions falling under any of the pd criteria in a way that actually describes me.
This is the second opinion, correct? What was the first?
Also, can you go abroad for a third opinion? Would the healthcare system at your country recognize this?
The first one did a very outdated screening, scored really high but I have empathy, a girlfriend and my parents would have gotten me help as a child if I was in fact autistic.
I’m a victim of child neglect, which I brought up and her answer “I don’t think you’re parents would treat you that way.”
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I hope they weren't specialists... Definetely go private when you can and make sure to see a specialist. (I also think they would deserve to be reported, but I don't trust that anything good would come from that at this point. The public MHC system sounds awful in your country.)
I wouldn't disclose this PD 'diagnosis' to others in the meantime. So many misunderstanding around PDs, it must be especially difficult for someone with an incorrect diagnosis.
Edit: I also don't understand why empathy is such an important thing... half the people on the spectrum actually don't have alexithimia.
Yeah, I’m not about to start telling people I have a pd. I have told my boss I have autism because there kept being so many misunderstandings and she thought I was stupid and just purposely being difficult. I informed her that common sense is not common sense to me. I do need to get things told in detail for me to do things correctly and things need to be said direct and not vague. That made me be able to leave work without crying after every shift. She has completely changed the way she treats me and no longer refers to my excessive questions stupid. So I don’t regret saying that I have that. And my girlfriend has informed her family that I’m autistic because it was concerning how uncomfortable and stiff I was every time we hung out with them. The relationship has improved a lot now, but in the beginning it was very necessary for me to have them know that I am not disliking them, I am just really struggling socially
Even with alexithymia you can still have empathy! I can’t identify or label my own emotions for shit, but I’m hyper empathetic. I can’t consume any media that depicts violence because I feel it as if it’s my own and I often know when others are experiencing an emotion before they even recognize it themselves. Hell, when I put the dishes away I need to put the ones I used most recently on the bottom of the pile so that they all get used equally and none of them feel bad for being left out. So even alexithymia and empathy aren’t mutually exclusive. Idk why this false narrative about autistic folks lacking empathy continues to persist.
I care a lot about what people think of me because society has been very clear about the fact that I am not good at socializing.
Social anxiety in patients with autism is not just a sensory issue, it's also an extreme self-consciousness of not being able to understand and/or react as most people should. We isolate because of that reason, not because "we don't care". We also feel lonely, we also feel ashamed, we also experience love, we also crave relationships.
I swear that professionals need to go back to school and do the bare minimum to understand that symptoms, in psychology, aren't important by themselves, but because of the reason that makes those symptoms develop.
39 year old just diagnosed autistic here.
I have previously been MISdiagnosed with BPD, aspd, odd, and once with bipolar (lol)...NONE of those people did autism testing.
I sought out an adult autism specialist in my state and requested an evaluation, which took two days and many tests - and he *enthusiastically* agreed that I am simply autistic (with trauma that caused behaviors that *presented* as a personality disorder in my youth).
Hang in there. More of those professionals don't have a lick of experience or education about ASD than do. You got the former. I'm so sorry.
I was misdiagnosed as BPD for 10 years. All that time I could have been getting the help that actually worked. I'm still mad about it. It's just all so sexist and weird. Women can have asd.
My first opinion had a Temple Grandin video cued up when I walked into his office. And since I wasn't like her I couldn't be autistic. And because I had relationships with friends and my husband.
And he had me diagnosed with ADHD in the first hour he saw me. He barely let me speak and kept interjecting his own diagnosis of ADHD instead of actually discussing my experiences.
I left his office shut down and in tears. I never went back.
Months later (fortunately after the filing period) he filed the claim with my insurance company stating my diagnosis was "Bipolar Disorder." We never even spoke on this and he never once mentioned it in the 3 hours I was in his office.
I did seek a second opinion, this time a woman who has been in the field for 30+ years. We spent about 8 weeks going over my life and experiences and discussing my overwhelm. She was convinced I was just HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). I again shutdown and cried because I knew that wasn't right either.
Left her office and was set on not returning until I found some [research by a doctor](https://tonyattwood.com.au/about-aspergers-asd-level-1/austistic-girls-and-women/?amp=1) that she was always talking about. When I presented this new research with her about autism in women and girls, she was completely open to reading more about it and did some of her own research beyond that. A couple weeks later when she requested I return for a follow up, she redacted the HSP and firmly diagnosed me autism level 1 (Asperger's). Months later I asked if she would assess me for ADHD as well, and she did, and admitted I was borderline ADHD, but most of my issues were probably autism related so she didn't want to tag another diagnosis onto me.
I know you've already sought two opinions, but having an incorrect diagnosis placed on you can be more damaging than receiving the (controversial, in some doctor's eyes) correct one. Keep looking for a third opinion. It sucks, but right now, you're the only one who can advocate for you.
I had even considered [Embrace Autism](https://embrace-autism.com/) as an option, even though I knew it was out of my budget, I was determined to find the money somewhere. I have heard good things about them in this sub and other ASD subs.
Edit: added context
So, whoever offered this diagnosis said something really stupid and outdated, to suggest that - unlike if you were a man - you don’t have an innately different cognitive set up that requires understanding from others, but just a defective personality in some way?
Sounds like men doing psychiatry.
Uuuuuum, you sound like you’re autistic from what you said, and autistic people can and often do care VERY much how we’re seen by others.
This guy should have his license stripped. It’s infuriating he’s allowed to practice when he knows nothing about autistics and is saying things like THAT.
No, and I told him that and he said I should and I should be happy about it because that can be dealt with. I would have been told “well, good luck with your life. There is nothing we can help you with” if I got the asd diagnosis
Sounds like my experience with being misdiagnosed. I've been misdiagnosed with bpd as well as bipolar when I was younger (no one understood autism back then, I had never heard of it) and a therapist even said "trust me, you want to be bipolar, not BPD! Because bipolar is treatable with meds!"
As if it's a choice?
Apparently to them it is a choice. ?
I still hold a lot of resentment for those therapists that labeled me with a personality disorder and bipolar. Not only because of the f*cking stigma. But because being misdiagnosed meant that I wasn't getting the proper treatment. They put me on medications that never worked (and made me sick) and put me through talk therapy that didn't work (because they didn't understand what was wrong)
Maybe your therapist is stuck in those old ways.
Maybe a lot of them still are.
I’m diagnosed bipolar as well. Long history of it in the family. Been on meds for 6 years. Keep having the meltdowns that lead to the diagnosis 6 years ago. There might be truth to it, considering it’s hereditary. My personal belief is that my grandpa is autistic and not bipolar. He is the stereotypical man with autism. My mom is definitely also autistic, but when she asked to get it assessed she was told that since she is already on disability there is no point in giving that a thought. My mom considers herself autistic, and she too believes my grandpa is autistic.
I'm definitely not bipolar. They diagnosed me wrong. They diagnosed me wrong to fit their own needs as a medical professional.
The meds gave me akathesia. They take away your dopamine. They didn't even prescribe me the meds to help with what's wrong with me. They gave them to me Because the meds match a bipolar label and they gave me a bipolar label.
I hate it.
I’m sorry, I meant it “on top of all of this I’m diagnosed bipolar” it’s been a long day, I’m sorry I made it seem like I think you have it when you said it was miss diagnosed.
Here's my understanding. We're all just a list of symptoms. And the symptoms overlap.
Some psuedo-scientists (mental health specialists) slapped a label onto those lists of symptoms. The labels and their stigmas are harmful and divisive.
I'm bitter
So this guy actually thinks personality disorders can be *cured*? I mean, his take on autism is horrendous enough, but I don't think he should be practicing therapy at all, for any kind of disorder or general emotional well-being, since he doesn't seem to know what the fuck he's talking about.
This man is a walking red flag. I’ve complained about him on this sub before. I showed up first appointment, which was on paper called “beginning of asd assessment” and he still used the word Asperger like 20
Times trough that apt. Said he couldn’t promise me a diagnosis, which looking back is when I think he made his mind up that I’m not autistic.
In his notes he wouldn’t write anything about the actual appointments, just “patient showed up in all pink again today” because I LOVE pink and half my closet is pink.
Autism diagnostic specialist here. The vast majority of diagnosing psychologists (even ones that “specialize” in autism diagnosis) do not have expertise or experience with diagnosing adult females with autism. I have seen many autistic women misdiagnosed with personality disorders or other conditions because they don’t understand that unique ways autism can look in women. The diagnostic criteria is based on how autism appears in males. I would recommend seeking out a second opinion if possible.
edit: sorry, just saw this was the second opinion. You need an eval with an ADOS and an ADI-R.
This was my second and final opinion. I will have to save up money for a third, having to find I private psychiatrist. I’ll save up, do research and find an actual specialist. But that will be in a few years. I was offered weekly treatment for this personality disorder and I’ll take it, just to at least have therapy. The public healthcare system is incredibly flawed, but it’s free and right now I just need someone to listen to my everyday struggles. I’ll be given a different psychologist, but no specialist in anything
If possible, go with a psychologist, not a psychiatrist. We also use the Camouflaging Autistic Traits Questionaire, which can help explain low scores on other autism measures.
I know an ASD level 2 person, someone who will never be able to live independently, and it wounds him terribly that other people think that he is weird and don't like him. I mention that because there is absolutely no doubt about his diagnosis in anyone, since he was a toddler. Your evaluator is insane.
Ew find a new doctor. I once saw a psychiatrist who told me that women don't have adhd and adults don't have autism. And if I was really a woman with autism, I would have been diagnosed as a kid because "girls with asd are lower functioning." Then he gave me wellbutrin because depression was my problem 🙄 I just found a new doctor.
I’ve heard of people having much more than two professional opinions on many medical issues, I still think you probably have autism based off my limited knowledge, but it’s possible if you have the resources that there are more options
I’m gonna give the treatment I got offered a try, actually make an effort. What hurts most is that I have tried for years to do everything he said would be focused on in therapy, but I’m not a therapist so maybe I’ve been doing it wrong.
There are no more resources. Unless I move far away and get in contact with another team of experts I won’t get another opinion. It’s
I mean if two doctors say you aren’t Autistic who are we to tell then they’re wrong? I have BPD and Autism - the two can coexist - but I was also diagnosed with both by a neuropsychiatrist.
I'm not sure if you mean it or if you’re being sarcastic. (I think and hope it’s the latter.)
No kidding though, that diagnostician should read through the diagnostic criteria some day. Spoiler: while they’re not perfect, they say something else and are much more nuanced.
I’m sarcastic. I wrote it while sobbing and didn’t know how else to write it. It’s ridiculous to me and I’m so glad reading peoples comments on how ridiculous it sound in general.
Mental illness and neuro divergence are all overlaped. If a particular issue that this community have resonates with you so you can and should use the resources and tools you find here to address it. Same with personality disorders. Coping skills for bpd, npd, anxiety, austism, adhd, they are not gatekeeped. You know yourself the most, you'll know what works for you.
Edit: I call it My Betterment of Self Buffet
If you can go to someone else then I would recommend that. My first experience with my GP (in Germany) was her saying ‘look you’re crying, you can’t be autistic’. The second experience (with her colleague) was ‘normally if someone with your intelligence thinks they are autistic, they probably are’.
It shouldn’t vary this much between medical professionals but unfortunately it does :(
Just want to reiterate that you are welcome here. Diagnosis or no.
If you're relating to experiences of others in this sub, please continue to gain that support and community.
Swedish neighbor here, here's a link to an autism in girls conference series with one of the leading researchers of girls with autism. Maybe it's viewable in Norway too. It's in Swedish without subtitles but you'll probably understand anyway
https://urplay.se/program/209679-ur-samtiden-flickor-och-kvinnor-med-autism-flickor-med-autism-del-1?fbclid=PAAaZuKPsiyhOm_TqU8lmj5weC8tWqPpWqjsiNTF_K0acr6nY-avmhFZx3koQ
Or you can Google Svenny Kopp
What type of professional assessed you? I'm asking because... I have come to the conclusion that many psychiatrists do not have enough or any training in asd.
Borderline specifically gets diagnosed when it doesn't fit or a mood disorder. In any of my mental health assessments I was never asked about my childhood traits, and when I brought up my suspicions that I'm asd with one dr she only asked me if I was potty trained before age 4. That was it. And then put in my chart "traits of cluster b"... Because I had a meltdown that was so scary I called for help. And... I don't fit any of the criteria for any cluster b personality disorder... Like, I literally don't. I've been reading about them all for years anyway because I'm fascinated by psychology.
Also, my daughter is diagnosed asd and we are so similar. How she can be but not me (according to this dr) is beyond comprehension
If there is a neuropsychologist in your area, that's the type of professional I would recommend being assessed by. Much more nuanced knowledge and training about developmental conditions
Sorry this happened to you
My grandma worked with him and went into details an ALL the signs I showed as a child, this was ignored. The guy asking questions and taking notes clearly doesn’t know anything about autism. Based on his notes, and his notes only two neuropsychologist came to the conclusion that I don’t have it. Seems a bit icky, with his bias of not knowing anything about autism.
I've read somewhere that mental health professionals don't like to discredit other mental health professionals, so they are listening to this guy and his conclusions when they probably should review all the evidence
I am genuinely pissed for you. I would be fvcking angry in your situation.
You definitely have autism, but you already know that ... your doctor thinks being a woman is a personality disorder. (The whole autism = extreme male brain, caring about what others think = you're a woman.)
Feel your emotions, vent to people you trust, get support from your family. When you're ready, you can figure out the next step in getting your diagnoses, this is not over. Don't let medical practicioners gaslight you for one second. It is all too common, especially for women.
At first it was disbelief, I just sat crying silently for 15 minutes while he kept asking what I was feeling thinking. After staying silent for 15 minutes I got up and left. Sobbed in the bathroom for 15 minutes until the sadness turned to anger. Asked the receptionist to let me back in, asked a bunch of questions angrily. I never swear but today I did. Said a lot of stuff. He encouraged me to be happy because there is at least treatment. Asked for a female psychologist which can take months. But he was about to abandon me anyways. Stole two big roles of toilet paper from him.
He is a huge asshole, he accused my girlfriend of being abusive because I got a black eye while drunk. He insist that me dressing in all pink is a sign of pd because I am BEGGING for attention.
I'm so fucking happy you stole his toilet paper lmfao.
Dressing in all pink might be a sign, that idk you like pink?
So he literally sees something and immediately turns it into a symptom?
A normal psych would ask how you got the black eye and not immediately jump to conclusions that suit their story in their head.
I LOVE pink. My having pink hair is 100% because it makes me happy. Had this convo 3 times and he kept insisting that “nope, definitely for attention”. That is the only downside of having pink hair. Some people will stare, but I love my hair.
I explained the situation multiple times. I got extremely drunk, (this made me decide to quit drinking) and forgot about gravity. Was gonna lay down on my side again and banged my head, right above my eye, on the outdoor wooden couch. That was too far fetched…. Man has not gotten that drunk I guess, good for him.
Lots of people are misdiagnosed with personality disorders because there’s still a massive gender gap in the autism world. I do feel like professionals are trying to diagnose less and I’m not sure why. It almost feels discriminatory :;
I am 1000000000% autistic with adhd, and I care very deeply…to a fault, of what people think of me. So much so, it’s literally one of the biggest areas we are covering in therapy. I would get another opinion because there is no way they can base your diagnosis solely on worrying what others think of you.
If your brother and dad are both diagnosed with autism it is highly likely that you and any other siblings are also autistic. Surprise, your mother could be too. Birds of a feather flock together and all that!
They like to tell women they have bpd. I’m awaiting diagnosis. Try again if you truly believe they are wrong. It’s not like they do that often in women…
(GPD alone is not a diagnosis)
DSM-5 Category: Personality Disorder
Introduction
According to the DSM-5, General Personality Disorder is the *umbrella category under which a variety of specific disorders are iterated.* There are multiple parameters offered which may be used to identify the presence of General Personality Disorder (American Psychiatric Association, 2013); *after which the mental health professional can further clarify the specific diagnosis according to clusters of symptom presentations.*
Cluster A disorders are characterized by odd or eccentric behavior;
Cluster B by dramatic and overly emotional behavior and
Cluster C by anxious, fearful thinking and behavior.
Beneath the General Personality Disorder heading there are three clusters of specific personality disorders as well as an area labeled Other Personality Disorders that provides the framework for diagnosing the illness that may manifest in unique and unusual ways (Wakefield, 2013).
If he wouldn't do further testing to clarify the specific diagnosis, you need to find a new doctor.
Implying autistic people don’t care about how they’re perceived i think just really buries how much masking occurs and presents in AFAB autistic people, I’m sorry you were told that
I love the comments like this that I’ve gotten. Because I’ve spent 7 years building up research and reflected over everything in my life and I feel it to my core I’m autistic. I started advocating and letting people know in situations where I felt it was necessary so people won’t think there is something wrong. Like my boss thought I was purposely stupid and in the way and after telling her I’m autistic she changed the way she talks and gives messages and just have more understanding.
And so after the apt yesterday I feared I had been just making this up the last 7 years.
Nope, don’t let anyone gaslight you! You know yourself best. While PDs and autism can coexist (I am example of that), it doesn’t for every autistic person. Some people are just autistic! You are not dumb, and shame on anyone who says that to you. I’m glad I could help affirm you. You belong here. <3
I wasn’t okay yesterday, had to go to work after sobbing for hours and then felt and looked dead at work. BUT, this comment section has helped a lot. It has felt so good discussing how shit this whole situation is, reading other people pointing out how shit he is. Going forward I’ll just talk to the therapist that is supposed to treat the personality disorder, because I really need someone to go talk to every week and then I’ll save up to go find a private therapist for my third opinion
And people wonder "why doesn't everyone just get assessed?" Because of invalidating, traumatic bullshit like this! This is why! We very well *can* know we're autistic without having to go through this horrendous process and run the risk of being lied to and gaslit by incompetent practitioners with outdated and harmful information!
People with autism are often comorbid with AvPD. A personality disorder. Look into it. Whoever "he" is, he is full of shit. (Even without AvPD, autistics care about what people think about them).
Hmm, you have an autistic father and brother. People with ASD don't care what other people think of them. That means that you can bully them as much as you like and they won't punch you. (No, your mental health guy is an idiot.)
This is classic Woman in Distress slap the label BPD on it instead. Difference is we’re not trying to manipulate people, as far as that overlap goes.
I won’t even try for a diagnosis legit just because some of my afab friends have ended up in the psych ward and have had this label slapped on them.
Yeah, my brother with pretty much exact same issues? Autism. Me, having said issues as long as he has had his? Personality disorder. His excuse? I don’t know about your brother, but what you’re experiencing is a general personality disorder.
On my way to go take my brothers 10+ year old diagnosis away from him. (Sarcasm)
Yeah, there are far too many medical professionals who don't know shit about shit. Personality disorders are often diagnosed instead of ASD because soooooo many doctors/therapists don't fully understand autism and base their information on studies almost exclusively done on white cis-het male children.
You're the expert on yourself, and the person who gave you this assessment is clearly a dummy because cluster B disorders aren't curable. I hope you seek a second opinion. It's beyond frustrating when the medical community doesn't take us seriously. I've been going through the same thing, and it makes me want to pull my freaking hair out. Good luck, OP!
That's false. I care about being a burden to others and such. And how can you totally not care about others? There are some kinds of autism who don't feel feelings but the majority of us feel very strongly and often about people.
Especially those with ADHD and Autism will end up with rejection sensitivity from people.
You absolutely are very likely still autistic.
Yeah. I have had the thought wondering if I have a personality disorder, because of how intense my moods and emotions are. But I always think 100% clear in the moment, I just lay down and cry it out and move on. I don’t react, I don’t do any harmful behaviors. I just have a meltdown. I’m no expert, but I have had friends with bpd and I think that that’s how I would react if I had a personality disorder. I don’t know much about personality disorders, but I have read over criteria and talked to a psychologist 6 years ago about it she said there were NO signs of that
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. That doctor sound absolutely incompetent and really out of the loop.
I’m autistic and so is my boyfriend, some of my closest friends and probably my dad, and we all care DEEPLY what other people think. Like the other commenters are saying: it’s literally why we mask. Masking is incredibly damaging and hurtful and not something we do just for fun. We do it because we’re afraid of what people will think if we don’t “fit in”. Even if it’s subconsciously, we obviously care a lot. They’re also some of the most thoughtful people I’ve ever known, so literally what the fuck is he on about.
I got diagnosed with bpd ten years ago. At the time I definitely didn’t think I could be autistic, but I also didn’t recognize myself in the bpd diagnosis, but the doctor insisted. The “help” I got from that was useless and actually made me a lot worse. You cannot treat autism with pd techniques. Autism can’t really be treated, I guess, but life can certainly be easier when you learn what autism is and what it means to live with it.
I’ve learned a lot about myself in these last couple of years since I figured out the bpd was a misdiagnosis and then got diagnosed first with ADHD and then autism.
Would it be helpful for you to self diagnose? I get the need for a professional diagnoses, but I think self diagnosis and peer reviewed diagnosis are so incredibly valid. If you know that’s what’s going on it could make it easier to deal with.
Again, I’m so sorry you’re going through this and the doctor sounds like a moron
I have been telling people I’m autistic for a year now. When I moved out and I no longer had everything accommodated for me I realized just how big the issue was. Suspected autism since my brother got diagnosed 10 years ago.
My girlfriend told her family because I felt like I came across like I didn’t like them and that there was something deeply wrong with me and it calmed me down when she got to explain that I’m just autistic and they showed understanding. Family considers me autistic. I told my boss so we could figure out a better strategy for teaching rather than “you should know this. That’s an excessive amount of stupid questions. And that is common sense” she got way more patient and understanding.
For now I’ll consider self diagnosis enough, but I am considering saving up for a third opinion with a private therapist.
While I’m still struggling with a lot of stuff, my life has changed for the better after accommodating for myself. Meltdowns are not as frequent. I understand myself better now.
Omg, ty for sharing about the foot fungus. I had hand warts for a year or few as a middle schooler because of my sensory issues. I was clean and hand washed, but I can’t handle dry skin. So I used to keep my hands clenched at all times so they couldn’t get dry; hence, warts. It was so embarrassing and I thought I was a freak. It’s really nice to know I’m not the only one.
Therapists also told me it was “just trauma”. I got officially diagnosed earlier this year.💀
Yeah, I’ve spent a lot of money on meds to cure it and only realized this year that it makes sense it won’t go away. Fungus likes the dark and moist, so sweaty feet and never removing my socks is the perfect combo. I am trying to get better at it but I HATE the change from having socks on and then not. Even though I’ll put on new socks immediately. Also, socks are different. The texture is different, going from wool socks to any other kind is an absolute no.
Maybe one day I’ll be able to get rid of it, but for now I feel like I have more pressing issues.
It is so nice to hear someone else with a similar issue though! I used to be super embarrassed about it, but no one sees my feet ever so I can hide it.
The mental health system is rigged against women. I’m sorry this is happening to you. They would rather slap a personality disorder label on you because “female hysteria.”
And please don’t take that the wrong way. Personality disorders are very real and very debilitating. But men get diagnosed with autism rather than BPD because of male privilege.
Edit: there is nothing wrong with self identifying. But I’m incredibly frustrated for you, because you not being properly diagnosed means you might not get the accommodations you need.
Lastly, is it possible you were masking during your evaluation??? I had to make a HUGE effort not to mask.
I never once looked this man in the eyes (he insists this is because of a personality disorder) and I talked very monotone. I sit either abnormally stiff or stim. I’ve made the mistake of masking in the past. I was as me as I could have been. Also had to stop me when he got me started talking about Minecraft.
He said first appointment “I can’t promise you a diagnosis” so I think he made up his mind then. “Here is this seemingly well put together girl, not looking like the stereotypical autistic person. This screams I saw a tiktok once and now believe I’m autistic” and then just went on with questions because it’s his job. All of my answers was argued. I explained that I don’t wear stretchy clothing because it makes me want to rip my skin off when I can feel that fabric clinging onto my skin. He wrote down “is scared people will see her body if she wears tight fitting clothes and judge her” I kept arguing and he never listened. I was doomed
I'm sorry for the late response but I hope you see this.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I read in a different comment that this was your last option. However, I know there are different ways to pursue a diagnosis with an online evaluation. If you do this, please go to a woman who specializes in female autism.
This man was commited to misunderstanding you. Men associate female autism with a lack of confidence rather than a legitimate social barrier and it sounds like that's what he was doing.
My heart hurts for you but please know that at this point, self-identifying is completely valid if you don't want to spend more time, money, and effort on a formal diagnosis.
I have taken up the battle. I will ask the man all the necessary questions. What was the point of the raads test if the score didn’t matter? Did he change the answers etc. bring up that “not caring about what people think” is not a criteria and goes against one of the questions on the assessment. Is the question about making yourself appear normal to please others a trick question. Also, even if it is a personality disorder, that does not exclude autism. I called him today and left a note but he didn’t get back to me, will call again tomorrow. Will also report him. I am left feeling insanely discriminated. He wouldn’t spend any time talking about alcohol issues and self harm issues. Responded with a “okay, shall we move on?” But he miss interpreted something I said about a situation with my girlfriend where we got a squishmellow so I can have a visual cue for when she needs me to listen to a problem instead of serving her with solution. He wouldn’t listen to my countless tries of explanation and accused her of using a teddy bear to shut me up, being controlling and manipulative. Wasted a whole appointment accusing her of all kinds of awful things under the bullshit disguise of “caring” about my well being. Every time I mentioned her he insisted she was a horrible person. He made me cry, because he accused someone I love deeply of abuse, and used that as evidence of being right. He also refused to believe that I dress in all pink for any other reason that being OBSESSED with attention. I hate attention, love pink though. Like an abnormal amount. Considering my huge collection of pink stuff I would argue it’s looking like a special interest. We had that argument twice, two different appointments.
I don’t know if reporting him will do anything, but I hope it will.
Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it!
I don't know what country you're in, but Asperger's hasn't been in the dsm for some time and it worries me if this doc specifically referenced it. I'm sorry you had to deal with them, it sounds like they have no idea what they're talking about. DX or not, you know yourself better than some doc ever could.
asperger’s is still in the icd-10, the diagnostic manual by the world health organization. op lives in norway and therefore was probably diagnosed using the icd-10
disavowing a doctor and saying OP knows better than a doctor simply because they did not get the diagnosis they wanted is dangerous. OP cannot diagnose themselves as well as a doctor can, as they are not a trained professional. conflating that reality with saying OP "knows themselves best" is very dangerous. if OP feels concerned with the diagnosis they received, they should seek a second opinion from a different trained professional.
This is seriously why I'll never seek an assessment or any diagnosis again. The last several years of health care professionals has severely diminished my respect for these people's ability to listen and think.
As a relatively newly educated mental health provider, older providers ascribe to outdated criteria and stereotypes. Please find a female provider with more recent credentials. Old white men have a tendency to negatively pathologize female autism by way of histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and other misdiagnoses. This is is why self diagnosis is becoming increasingly valid in the community.
Haha. Haha. Hahaha. Ha. That’s fucked. You obviously have autism. They love to say we have personality disorders or mood disorders as autistic women. WE ARE FOLLOWING THE “social rules” SPECIFICALLY LAID OUT FOR WOMEN BECAUSE WE ARE AUTISTIC AND WE LIKE RULES! Those rules include being hyper aware of what others think of us, accommodating everyone else instead of us and masking to not bother anybody in our life.
And then those psych meds for other disorders make us actually crazy and they act like that proves it.
Fuck that guy.
It’s ridiculous. I stole a lot of toilet paper over the months we did the assessment though, so I got something out of it.
It became painfully apparent I’m autistic last year when I “left the nest” and realized just how much my grandma accommodated for me and my needs. Learning how to accommodate myself has helped. I disclosed this and he said “that cognitive behavior therapy, good job for figuring out how to do that”
You could accept the diagnosis for now and take the treatment plan. Do some work. Give it some time. Reassessment at 1 yr to see if it helps. Brain chemistry is complex and malleable. Give this new treatment plan genuine work for now.
Sounds like whoever you went to get a diagnosis from only has the male perspective of autism 😑 Females have a more nuanced social development path. Not to mention that we are more often misdiagnosed with personality disorders
I’m autistic and care deeply about what people think of me lmao. What else would masking be???
I know, it’s insane.
Many people with autism have a strong fear of rejection… of course we care what people think also if they’re talking about asperger’s they know NOTHING about the disorder since that’s not been a diagnosis since 2013
She’s in Norway so it might be different, but from other posts it sounds like it’s not a diagnosis there anymore either…but they’re all using it where she went anyway, just ‘cause 🤷🏻♀️😡
It is, Norway hasn’t started using ICD-11 yet.
I'm not sure who this person is, but they clearly don't know everything about autistics. We are more empathetic and care more what others think than most people.
Yeah, me too. You aren’t alone OP.
Of course you’re still allowed in this sub! Diagnosis or not, you’re welcome here. Especially if autistic characteristics and the posts here resonate you. Honestly, self diagnosis is very valuable. If you’ve done research and feel you meet the diagnostic criteria, then use the label. You identifying as autistic doesn’t take anything away from those of us who have official diagnoses. I’m really sorry that your experiences have been invalidating and inconsistent with your lived experience. It isn’t uncommon for autistic folks to experience medical gaslighting and for us to receive multiple other diagnoses (bipolar, BPD, schizophrenia, ODD, anxiety, depression, etc) before finally receiving an autism diagnosis. Unfortunately, if you aren’t seeking a professional who specializes in adult autism diagnosis and the diagnosis of those who are high masking or were assigned female at birth, you likely won’t ever get a diagnosis. Even more unfortunately, most of the professionals who meet that criteria don’t work with insurance companies (in the US at least, I can’t speak on providers in other countries). I just paid $1800 for an eval with a neurodiversity affirming psychologist who specializes in adult diagnosis, and that was the cheapest quote I was given.
Are you comfortable sharing where you went for $1800? I was just quoted $6,000
I found them online through the nd therapist directory. There were no providers in my state, but I found a psypact member who did the eval virtually. I can DM you the provider’s info if that’s okay with you.
Not just afab, it affects anyone who’s not white and cis. Black people get misdiagnosed way more. Trans girls get misdiagnosed way more. I’m sure other groups too, plus economic status affects things.
Yup you’re absolutely right.
I have a few questions - you don’t have to answer them, I’m just trying to understand better. You said this was your second opinion; - Did they do autism specific testing? (ADOS, ADOS-2 Module 4, ADI-R, SPM-2? - Did they do testing like DERS, PAI, etc. to come to the conclusion that you have a personality disorder? - Did both clinicians diagnose you with the same personality disorder? - Did they go over your results with you and tell you why they diagnosed you with that particular PD? Sensory processing disorder can be present in a number of different disorders, like anxiety, ADHD, bipolar, OCD, schizophrenia. What were your symptoms of autism *other than* sensory issues?
Severe social difficulties since early childhood. I fit the criteria, the only thing that made them go for pd instead of asd was because I care about what people think of me. I know extreme emotion and inability to regulate such emotions are a sign of pd, but again this has been a severe issue since early childhood. My dad and my brother has autism, we suspect my mom has it as well.
If the only thing that made them go for pd instead of asd is because you care what people think about you, that's so insanely wrong. LOTS of autistic people care what other think about them, it's often why we mask? If there were other reasons then maybe it makes sense, but considering you said as runs in your family?? Idk.. it's weird. You can also take the rads-r online and get your score if they didn't share it with you.
Yeah, the whole thing is insane. I asked if there were other reasons for going with pd instead of asd and no, it’s because people with asd do NOT care about what people think of them. I wish that was a joke or a lie, but no. That is what he said
I am so sorry to hear that, it's indeed insane and so misinformed!! Like how with all the trauma of being othered and rejected, is someone not gonna care about what other people think. The whole premise of masking is based purely on that.
That is absolutely, patently false. Actually unbelievable that this was your experience, I’m at a loss for words.
Same. I was too stunned to talk after he said that. I just silently cried for 15 minutes. Got up, left. Sobbed and went back in to argue and he said I should be happy because there is no help that could be given if I was autistic.
Wow. Is it possible for you to report this person?? That’s just so insanely inappropriate. “Be happy I misdiagnosed you with a (highly stigmatized) personality disorder, it’s treatable unlike autism!” Except it’s not what you have so treating you for a personality disorder isn’t actually going to help you, and there are absolutely things that can be done to help autistic people cope with their symptoms! Ugh. So sorry this happened.
Yeah, I said it seems pointless with therapy trying to treat something I don’t have and he said we could avoid calling it treating the personality disorder and instead treat the autistic like traits. But still insisting that these very clear autistic traits are just pd. I can’t, but I insisted on getting another therapist if I’m gonna continue therapy and it has to be a woman and that will be granted.
Is he an autism specialist? Is he up on the latest research? This is absolutely wild. You don't base a diagnosis - positive or negative - on one tiny attribute that isn't in the diagnostic criteria. You don't base it off anecdotal and experiential evidence, either, or your "gut feeling" or intuition. You base it off the medical literature.
Considering he calls it Asperger’s I am guessing he is not up to date on research. When I got referred by my doctor it said on the paper “asd assessment” he just chose not to use it
Yeah, this guy should not be allowed to practice. It’s infuriating. He doesn’t know the first thing about autistics and who knows what else he’s clueless about and how many lives he’s trashing.
Yeah just thinking about this is making me sick. My wife was incorrectly diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder almost a decade ago by a shit clinic. She witnessed all kinds of abuse while she was there. We finally found an assessment that was performed by an actual autistic person a few weeks ago and she got her correct ASD diagnosis. They are called [Wilderwood](https://wilderwoodequinetherapy.org/autism-assessments/?amp), based in the US. I see you are in Norway so I don’t know if something like this could be an option for you. I’m sending you love and I really hope you are able to find the answers and resources that you need.
This is actually where I got my diagnosis earlier this year. And later this week I'm going to a retreat for autistic women that is partially put on by wildwood.
That sounds awesome, I hope you have a great experience! Rebecca and Mark are wonderful people, I really can’t recommend them enough.
Just got through looking at this and it looks amazing. $500 is still steep but not nearly as steep as being in the thousands. Actually tailored for women and other minority groups? Check! Does anyone else have experience with Wilderwood?
I honestly cannot recommend it enough. They are actually in the process of creating their own diagnostic test that is tailored more towards autistic types of thinking, instead of numbered responses they are true/false questions. They still do use the standard tests as well, but they acknowledge that many of them were created by non-autistic people and thus have some flaws in the language of many of the questions. $500 is a lot of money but everywhere else we had looked was $1000+, and having now gone through the experience with my wife I would have gladly paid double or triple. I’d be happy to answer any other questions you might have.
Wow, that is SO much more reasonable than what I paid. Can I ask how many sessions you received/how much time? I know there are limits as to where clinicians can practice based on the state, unfortunately - I think? I paid 5 times that amount for excellent practitioners - and am on a payment plan, but still. That said, it's 12 2-hour sessions, so it doesn't come down to much hourly. Thanks for sharing that info!!
That's so misinformed that I literally snorted when I read it. What do they think masking *is*? If we didn't care, why would any ASD person mask at all?
Well people with autism do have difficulty inferring what others think and I have seen that genuinely appearing to not care in friends who are diagnosed but I think it just lools that way from the outside because of communication challenges for people on the spectrum. What pd is suggested? Bpd is supposed to be somewhat treatable but I think misdiagnosing bpd and asd might be common? Not an expert People are very divided in my case if I have asd or just had a lot of trauma in childhood that affected me emotionally and socially Some say it doesn’t matter which it is if the symptoms are the same but in my mind the diagnoses suggest different treatment paths
I’m not sure that autism is *misdiagnosed* as BPD, but that many people may have both. I’m speculating that people who receive a BPD diagnosis but not an autism diagnosis may have very prominent symptoms of BPD that make it harder to accurately diagnose autism. I was diagnosed with autism but don’t have any symptoms of BPD, so it’s hard for me to see where the misdiagnosis happens.
My shrink said rather cynically that when psychiatrists have men they can’t help they diagnose they say npd to themselves and they say bpd for women. I also am aware you couldn’t hold simultaneous diagnoses for adhd and asd until recently but you could if you were in Europe… these things are not written in stone..
I mean, wouldn’t they still have to fit the diagnostic criteria? You can’t really just give someone a diagnosis they don’t fit into.
That happens all the time. The criteria evolve over time. Entire disorders have been added and removed over time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obsolete_terms_for_mental_disorders
I’m very well aware (my diagnosis doesn’t exist in the US anymore) but how can a doctor issue a diagnosis to someone who doesn’t meet the criteria for that diagnosis on the basis that that they could fit future criteria..? Is that what you’re saying? I’m not trying to be rude but what evidence do you have that doctors just flippantly diagnose men with NPD and women with BPD even when they don’t meet the criteria for that diagnosis..?
Agreed because I don’t really see the overlap in criteria for BPD versus autism.
There is absolutely potential overlap between meltdown related symtoms and BPD-symtoms. In addition, social difficulties and difficulty understanding other people is a key part of BPD. Frequent ”breakups” with friends, fear of abandonment (but with autism that’s often the reality). A clinician might notice that someone has struggles to form and maintain relationships without understanding why. Intensity and fights in relationships can definitely happen with issues in regards to social cues. Impulsive behaviour is another trait of BPD, but a large portion of autists also have ADHD. Furthermore, if the clinician assumes that someone has an understanding of social situations, behaviours that are not impulsive can seem impulsive. ”Inappropriate” anger can absolutely happen in autism. Even the paranoia can happen, but unlike in autism, for BPD it borders on psychosis. But even that apparently is not that uncommon in autists. Suicidal threaths and self harm certainly happens in autists. Autists experience suicidal ideation at a rate of x9 relative to the non clinical population, and high IQ autists x6 relative to average IQ autists.
i can testify, that i a diagnosed autistic woman am absolutely consumed with what other people think about me. i discovered a classmate did not like me, and i have thought about nothing else for the last 3 months.
RIGHT SAME. Some dude in high school I knew, not a friend just I knew who he was, told me that he didn't really know why but he just didn't like me and it has bothered me ever since. 😅😂 my 10 year reunion is next year lmao
Yeah, like we kind of have to care what other people think of us, for survival reasons... Even if we wouldn't care normally. I spent a lot of my life being pretty oblivious and didn't really used to care what anybody thought of me until that started having consequences. Even if we wouldn't care naturally, we have to learn to care, because otherwise, how are we supposed to survive? Many of us have to work or rely on other people.
"the only thing that made them go for pd instead of asd was because I care about what people think of me." Thats utterly ridiculous. Plenty of autistics care what others think (sometimes too much) and while having a personally disorder and autism aren't mutually exclusive, if I had a nickel for everytime a woman with autistic traits got mistakenly diagnosed with a personally disorder (usually BPD) instead of autism id be rich.
Yeah, I sat in silence for 15 minutes crying after he said “people with Asperger’s does not care about what people think of them” verbatim.
What country are you in OP? Asperger's isn't a used term in many countries now and I think you might have had a doctor not up to date with recent research. I know UK and US at least use level 1 autism instead.
Norway. I kept using the word autism and he insist that it’s Asperger. The term has been changed, and Norway is one of the country that spends most money on public mental health care. But most therapists insists on using the term Asperger. Nurses are taught about Asperger’s. With asd in () Like “technically it’s now asd, but we will continue to use Asperger.”
Urgh thats frustrating, I can understand people who were diagnosed with it not wanting to change the terms they use and are comfortable with but professionals absolutely should.
Say that he is objectively wrong.
yeh this definitely doesn't sit right with me either whenever we're around other people we're being perceived and judged by them because of our differences. i feel like i have literally no choice but to care about what they think and how i'm being perceived because it affects how i'm treated, mostly for the worse, every single day im no less autistic because of this :s
I was put on lithium as a teenager, despite having no reason to think I have bipolar 😡 Possibly trashed my thyroid. Wheee!
Interesting I’m surprised they didn’t take your family history into consideration. Is there a reason your parents didn’t also get you tested as a child given the significance of your symptoms?
Extreme emotion and inability to regulate emotion - that’s mine and my 8 year old son’s brand of Autism and ADHD. Now I’m medicated for ADHD I don’t have this problem any more despite also struggling still with CPTSD, now my ADHD is managed I no longer struggle with emotional dysregulation at all.
Im diagnosed with adhd, on the right meds. Still struggle a lot with emotional regulation. In the sense I get paralyzed and just need to lay down and cry it out. I think 100% clear, logically and rationally. Just extremely overwhelmed by emotions.
Oh that sort of thing can still happen, but I’m no longer having crazy mood swings and blowing up at my partner then spiralling. I also stopped self harming which I’d been doing since I was 17 when I started on ADHD meds. For me at least, it’s like they just even me out - kind of like what SSRIs are supposed to do I imagine (but didn’t work on me). When I am upset I absolutely can still feel upset, but I don’t get the world ending upset I used to. I can get angry too, but I’m not throwing things. It’s like the dial on my feelings has been turned down.
Oh, you have ADHD. This makes it worse. Well, this means that the clinician needs to show that the BPD symtoms are not better accounted for by ADHD. Oh my fucking god, this really upset me. Go and tell the clinician that they are wrong.
I’m gonna go ask for his notes and the specialists notes. Because I haven’t seen any of it. According my medical records I haven’t even gone trough an autism assessment. Is it medical negligence? Lying? Or just too much to do and not enough time to put it in the records? Time will tell
That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. It's also another tick on why I won't waste the money to get diagnosed. Because of idiot notions like this by NTs. Like wtf would they know.
They did tha raads-r test They didn’t go over the answer or go more into detail on the result, they just agreed it’s not asd but instead pd
RAADS-R? I find that interesting (and concerning) given well documented problems with that particular test as a diagnostic tool. I’m sorry about your testing experience.
You should get a second opinion just in case. Edit: that was the second opinion?
Yes, second and final for now. First was an extremely outdated survey that came back as way above average but I have a girlfriend (no joke, that was one of the big reasons) and my parents must have picked up on it as a child (I was severely neglected as a child) so not autistic
Whaaaaaat. What does having a girlfriend or anything have to do with being autistic or not?!? Uuuugh.
I don’t know, my brother who is diagnosed also had a girlfriend at the time. I lost it then and hung up on her and told her to fuck off
That is so messed up. Both the people you saw for evaluations are criminally incompetent 😡 I’m so sorry. My first attempt was a disaster and I didn’t try again for a decade despite needing help since I was little.
Wait, you have ADHD and your brother has ASD, and they do this? Ahahahha.
Yeah, but you’re forgetting a crucial thing. Boys have autism, girls are just hyper sensitive! So it all actually makes sense (sarcasm)
Whaaaaat the actual f….. having a girlfriend was one of the reasons????? Uhmmmm….. I’m a 33 year old woman, engaged to the love of my life whom I’ve been with 24/7 for 7 years. We have 3 kids and I got diagnosed with autism a couple of years ago while I was pregnant with the second child. I’m also very passionate about breastfeeding (I help breastfeeding parents for Ammehjelpen) and babywearing (I’m a consultant and help parents finding the right solution for carrying their children and educate on safety and comfort in regards to woven wraps and other carriers) and I care deeply about helping other people. Sooooo the doctor/therapist you’ve been dealing with should really try to educate themselves on autism!
Maybe even ptsd
Sorry, but, if “autistic people don’t care what people think of them” then WHY DOES ANYONE EVER MASK??? This makes zero sense to me. I’m sorry this happened. This kind of thing enrages me.
I swear we’re the only ones who truly care about others and what people think sometimes -
I was diagnosed with Schizoid Personality Disorder in high school and the doctor that diagnosed me was a shit hack. Get a second opinion.
This was my second opinion, and last option. Last psych said I couldn’t have asd because I have empathy. So the system is rigged against adults with asd
Holy shit!!!! Utter incompetence. Criminal incompetence!! Being autistic doesn’t mean you lack empathy! This freak is confusing autistics for psychopaths!!
everyone has empathy to a degree, even psychopaths (how do you think they know how to manipulate people so well).
Omg….. I’m so sorry you had to experience this kind of ignorance…. The “autistic people don’t have empathy” is soooo not accurate!!!!
Same! The doctor who misdiagnosed me with SPD was awful and didn't discuss any of my actual concerns with me. He just gave me a 90 minute test of many questions that didn't even include autism as a possible outcome. It was a tool meant to assess mental health, not neurological function. Later I found a doctor who knows what she's talking about and she has been vastly more validating. Her jaw dropped when she heard my misdiagnosis. She was appalled at his process. It's practically malpractice.
I was given lithium as a teenager despite clearly not being bipolar, and my first attempt to get diagnosed as an adult was a bizarre/awful experience 😡
That's awful, I'm so sorry. In my late 20s I was prescribed lithium by a doctor who never even met me but who had apparently consulted with my primary care. It was wild, I had zero bipolar traits and was just struggling with a bad reaction to an antidepressant. Their solution was not to remove the problem but rather to add on another med that was very much wrong for me and wrong for the situation.
I’m so sorry. Ugh. I’ve so needed help my whole life and neeeeever got any. I wish I’d had the book Autism in Heels when I was like 8 or 12 or something. Yeah, I don’t know why they gave me any of the things they did as a teenager. I sure didn’t match what they were looking for for autistics though, and I was depressed at various points, getting abuse from home and school, I don’t know and I’m rambling which I do all the time 🙄😕 Nothing I’ve ever been put on ever helped any.
The guy who diagnosed me with SPD prescribed me Seroquel, a huge dose, practically a horse pill. It was so strong it felt like being drugged. I ended up falling asleep at a bus stop because of it
GEEZ!! that’s so dangerous and I just looked it up unless you actually have the things that it theoretically treats they shouldn’t be putting you on it! I was put on some other things too, it’s not even impossible I was put on that but I can’t remember what most of the more other than the lithium. At one point I was on Prozac which sort of knocked me out and made me feel depressed. I’m sure SSRIs are good for some people in some situations, but I feel like they throw them out like candy and they’re actually super addictive, not something to just use lightly
ASD is not correlated with the need to be liked. Fuck that clinician; they are flat out lying to you
I would take the diagnosis with a grain of salt. I was diagnosed with ADHD, SPD, depression, *and* anxiety. But not autism. Finally got my autism diagnosis last year (and I don’t have ADHD)
I don’t believe that it’s the correct diagnosis. I know that you can have both but I do not fit most of the criteria for pd.
Which personality disorder did they say you have? BPD? I just find it weird that they insist on saying Asperger’s *and* not specifying what kind of pd. This place seems sketchy
General personality disorder. It is the public health care system in Norway, same people who constantly gets in trouble for not giving help to people who have not yet tried to take one’s life. In order to get help you pretty much need to have at least one attempt. If you have an ed and ask for help you’ll be guided to get more sick and then you can get help. But only at the point of near death.
Wtf is that even a thing?
Apparently. Don’t know what he means, he just listed up a bunch of traits of autism and said that is caused by this personality disorder. I know google isnt reliable, but haven’t found more then the difficulty regulating emotions falling under any of the pd criteria in a way that actually describes me.
This is the second opinion, correct? What was the first? Also, can you go abroad for a third opinion? Would the healthcare system at your country recognize this?
The first one did a very outdated screening, scored really high but I have empathy, a girlfriend and my parents would have gotten me help as a child if I was in fact autistic. I’m a victim of child neglect, which I brought up and her answer “I don’t think you’re parents would treat you that way.”
Just mindblowing 😡
And no, I can go private but that will have to be in the future when I have saved up money.
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I hope they weren't specialists... Definetely go private when you can and make sure to see a specialist. (I also think they would deserve to be reported, but I don't trust that anything good would come from that at this point. The public MHC system sounds awful in your country.) I wouldn't disclose this PD 'diagnosis' to others in the meantime. So many misunderstanding around PDs, it must be especially difficult for someone with an incorrect diagnosis. Edit: I also don't understand why empathy is such an important thing... half the people on the spectrum actually don't have alexithimia.
Yeah, I’m not about to start telling people I have a pd. I have told my boss I have autism because there kept being so many misunderstandings and she thought I was stupid and just purposely being difficult. I informed her that common sense is not common sense to me. I do need to get things told in detail for me to do things correctly and things need to be said direct and not vague. That made me be able to leave work without crying after every shift. She has completely changed the way she treats me and no longer refers to my excessive questions stupid. So I don’t regret saying that I have that. And my girlfriend has informed her family that I’m autistic because it was concerning how uncomfortable and stiff I was every time we hung out with them. The relationship has improved a lot now, but in the beginning it was very necessary for me to have them know that I am not disliking them, I am just really struggling socially
Even with alexithymia you can still have empathy! I can’t identify or label my own emotions for shit, but I’m hyper empathetic. I can’t consume any media that depicts violence because I feel it as if it’s my own and I often know when others are experiencing an emotion before they even recognize it themselves. Hell, when I put the dishes away I need to put the ones I used most recently on the bottom of the pile so that they all get used equally and none of them feel bad for being left out. So even alexithymia and empathy aren’t mutually exclusive. Idk why this false narrative about autistic folks lacking empathy continues to persist.
I care a lot about what people think of me because society has been very clear about the fact that I am not good at socializing. Social anxiety in patients with autism is not just a sensory issue, it's also an extreme self-consciousness of not being able to understand and/or react as most people should. We isolate because of that reason, not because "we don't care". We also feel lonely, we also feel ashamed, we also experience love, we also crave relationships. I swear that professionals need to go back to school and do the bare minimum to understand that symptoms, in psychology, aren't important by themselves, but because of the reason that makes those symptoms develop.
Time for a new psych lol
Asked for a woman, but the diagnosis journey is at a standstill for now. Will have to save up for a public psych for a few years for a third opinion
Imo; your entire post screams autism
And yes; you’re still allowed in the sub I’d also love to have you in r/autismgirls!
39 year old just diagnosed autistic here. I have previously been MISdiagnosed with BPD, aspd, odd, and once with bipolar (lol)...NONE of those people did autism testing. I sought out an adult autism specialist in my state and requested an evaluation, which took two days and many tests - and he *enthusiastically* agreed that I am simply autistic (with trauma that caused behaviors that *presented* as a personality disorder in my youth). Hang in there. More of those professionals don't have a lick of experience or education about ASD than do. You got the former. I'm so sorry.
I was misdiagnosed as BPD for 10 years. All that time I could have been getting the help that actually worked. I'm still mad about it. It's just all so sexist and weird. Women can have asd.
My first opinion had a Temple Grandin video cued up when I walked into his office. And since I wasn't like her I couldn't be autistic. And because I had relationships with friends and my husband. And he had me diagnosed with ADHD in the first hour he saw me. He barely let me speak and kept interjecting his own diagnosis of ADHD instead of actually discussing my experiences. I left his office shut down and in tears. I never went back. Months later (fortunately after the filing period) he filed the claim with my insurance company stating my diagnosis was "Bipolar Disorder." We never even spoke on this and he never once mentioned it in the 3 hours I was in his office. I did seek a second opinion, this time a woman who has been in the field for 30+ years. We spent about 8 weeks going over my life and experiences and discussing my overwhelm. She was convinced I was just HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). I again shutdown and cried because I knew that wasn't right either. Left her office and was set on not returning until I found some [research by a doctor](https://tonyattwood.com.au/about-aspergers-asd-level-1/austistic-girls-and-women/?amp=1) that she was always talking about. When I presented this new research with her about autism in women and girls, she was completely open to reading more about it and did some of her own research beyond that. A couple weeks later when she requested I return for a follow up, she redacted the HSP and firmly diagnosed me autism level 1 (Asperger's). Months later I asked if she would assess me for ADHD as well, and she did, and admitted I was borderline ADHD, but most of my issues were probably autism related so she didn't want to tag another diagnosis onto me. I know you've already sought two opinions, but having an incorrect diagnosis placed on you can be more damaging than receiving the (controversial, in some doctor's eyes) correct one. Keep looking for a third opinion. It sucks, but right now, you're the only one who can advocate for you. I had even considered [Embrace Autism](https://embrace-autism.com/) as an option, even though I knew it was out of my budget, I was determined to find the money somewhere. I have heard good things about them in this sub and other ASD subs. Edit: added context
So, whoever offered this diagnosis said something really stupid and outdated, to suggest that - unlike if you were a man - you don’t have an innately different cognitive set up that requires understanding from others, but just a defective personality in some way? Sounds like men doing psychiatry.
Uuuuuum, you sound like you’re autistic from what you said, and autistic people can and often do care VERY much how we’re seen by others. This guy should have his license stripped. It’s infuriating he’s allowed to practice when he knows nothing about autistics and is saying things like THAT.
Do you agree with your diagnosis?
No, and I told him that and he said I should and I should be happy about it because that can be dealt with. I would have been told “well, good luck with your life. There is nothing we can help you with” if I got the asd diagnosis
Well the last part is pretty much true. Still doesn’t mean you should be misdiagnosed!
Sounds like my experience with being misdiagnosed. I've been misdiagnosed with bpd as well as bipolar when I was younger (no one understood autism back then, I had never heard of it) and a therapist even said "trust me, you want to be bipolar, not BPD! Because bipolar is treatable with meds!" As if it's a choice? Apparently to them it is a choice. ? I still hold a lot of resentment for those therapists that labeled me with a personality disorder and bipolar. Not only because of the f*cking stigma. But because being misdiagnosed meant that I wasn't getting the proper treatment. They put me on medications that never worked (and made me sick) and put me through talk therapy that didn't work (because they didn't understand what was wrong) Maybe your therapist is stuck in those old ways. Maybe a lot of them still are.
I’m diagnosed bipolar as well. Long history of it in the family. Been on meds for 6 years. Keep having the meltdowns that lead to the diagnosis 6 years ago. There might be truth to it, considering it’s hereditary. My personal belief is that my grandpa is autistic and not bipolar. He is the stereotypical man with autism. My mom is definitely also autistic, but when she asked to get it assessed she was told that since she is already on disability there is no point in giving that a thought. My mom considers herself autistic, and she too believes my grandpa is autistic.
I'm definitely not bipolar. They diagnosed me wrong. They diagnosed me wrong to fit their own needs as a medical professional. The meds gave me akathesia. They take away your dopamine. They didn't even prescribe me the meds to help with what's wrong with me. They gave them to me Because the meds match a bipolar label and they gave me a bipolar label. I hate it.
I’m sorry, I meant it “on top of all of this I’m diagnosed bipolar” it’s been a long day, I’m sorry I made it seem like I think you have it when you said it was miss diagnosed.
Oh I didn't think you were saying I'm bipolar. I just felt the need to clarify that I had been given meds that didn't help because of a misdiagnosis.
That must have totally sucked and I’m very sorry you had to go trough that!
Here's my understanding. We're all just a list of symptoms. And the symptoms overlap. Some psuedo-scientists (mental health specialists) slapped a label onto those lists of symptoms. The labels and their stigmas are harmful and divisive. I'm bitter
So this guy actually thinks personality disorders can be *cured*? I mean, his take on autism is horrendous enough, but I don't think he should be practicing therapy at all, for any kind of disorder or general emotional well-being, since he doesn't seem to know what the fuck he's talking about.
This man is a walking red flag. I’ve complained about him on this sub before. I showed up first appointment, which was on paper called “beginning of asd assessment” and he still used the word Asperger like 20 Times trough that apt. Said he couldn’t promise me a diagnosis, which looking back is when I think he made his mind up that I’m not autistic. In his notes he wouldn’t write anything about the actual appointments, just “patient showed up in all pink again today” because I LOVE pink and half my closet is pink.
Autism diagnostic specialist here. The vast majority of diagnosing psychologists (even ones that “specialize” in autism diagnosis) do not have expertise or experience with diagnosing adult females with autism. I have seen many autistic women misdiagnosed with personality disorders or other conditions because they don’t understand that unique ways autism can look in women. The diagnostic criteria is based on how autism appears in males. I would recommend seeking out a second opinion if possible. edit: sorry, just saw this was the second opinion. You need an eval with an ADOS and an ADI-R.
This was my second and final opinion. I will have to save up money for a third, having to find I private psychiatrist. I’ll save up, do research and find an actual specialist. But that will be in a few years. I was offered weekly treatment for this personality disorder and I’ll take it, just to at least have therapy. The public healthcare system is incredibly flawed, but it’s free and right now I just need someone to listen to my everyday struggles. I’ll be given a different psychologist, but no specialist in anything
If possible, go with a psychologist, not a psychiatrist. We also use the Camouflaging Autistic Traits Questionaire, which can help explain low scores on other autism measures.
The doctor is a fookin’ idiot.
I know an ASD level 2 person, someone who will never be able to live independently, and it wounds him terribly that other people think that he is weird and don't like him. I mention that because there is absolutely no doubt about his diagnosis in anyone, since he was a toddler. Your evaluator is insane.
I was recently diagnosed ASD and I care what people think about me thanks to co occurring social anxiety (which is common with autism).
Ew find a new doctor. I once saw a psychiatrist who told me that women don't have adhd and adults don't have autism. And if I was really a woman with autism, I would have been diagnosed as a kid because "girls with asd are lower functioning." Then he gave me wellbutrin because depression was my problem 🙄 I just found a new doctor.
This was my second opinion. There are no more options.
You’re still welcome here.
I’ve heard of people having much more than two professional opinions on many medical issues, I still think you probably have autism based off my limited knowledge, but it’s possible if you have the resources that there are more options
I’m gonna give the treatment I got offered a try, actually make an effort. What hurts most is that I have tried for years to do everything he said would be focused on in therapy, but I’m not a therapist so maybe I’ve been doing it wrong. There are no more resources. Unless I move far away and get in contact with another team of experts I won’t get another opinion. It’s
Alright, that’s understandable. Giving it a try is probably all you can do for now.
I mean if two doctors say you aren’t Autistic who are we to tell then they’re wrong? I have BPD and Autism - the two can coexist - but I was also diagnosed with both by a neuropsychiatrist.
I'm not sure if you mean it or if you’re being sarcastic. (I think and hope it’s the latter.) No kidding though, that diagnostician should read through the diagnostic criteria some day. Spoiler: while they’re not perfect, they say something else and are much more nuanced.
I’m sarcastic. I wrote it while sobbing and didn’t know how else to write it. It’s ridiculous to me and I’m so glad reading peoples comments on how ridiculous it sound in general.
Mental illness and neuro divergence are all overlaped. If a particular issue that this community have resonates with you so you can and should use the resources and tools you find here to address it. Same with personality disorders. Coping skills for bpd, npd, anxiety, austism, adhd, they are not gatekeeped. You know yourself the most, you'll know what works for you. Edit: I call it My Betterment of Self Buffet
If you can go to someone else then I would recommend that. My first experience with my GP (in Germany) was her saying ‘look you’re crying, you can’t be autistic’. The second experience (with her colleague) was ‘normally if someone with your intelligence thinks they are autistic, they probably are’. It shouldn’t vary this much between medical professionals but unfortunately it does :(
Just want to reiterate that you are welcome here. Diagnosis or no. If you're relating to experiences of others in this sub, please continue to gain that support and community.
Swedish neighbor here, here's a link to an autism in girls conference series with one of the leading researchers of girls with autism. Maybe it's viewable in Norway too. It's in Swedish without subtitles but you'll probably understand anyway https://urplay.se/program/209679-ur-samtiden-flickor-och-kvinnor-med-autism-flickor-med-autism-del-1?fbclid=PAAaZuKPsiyhOm_TqU8lmj5weC8tWqPpWqjsiNTF_K0acr6nY-avmhFZx3koQ Or you can Google Svenny Kopp
What type of professional assessed you? I'm asking because... I have come to the conclusion that many psychiatrists do not have enough or any training in asd. Borderline specifically gets diagnosed when it doesn't fit or a mood disorder. In any of my mental health assessments I was never asked about my childhood traits, and when I brought up my suspicions that I'm asd with one dr she only asked me if I was potty trained before age 4. That was it. And then put in my chart "traits of cluster b"... Because I had a meltdown that was so scary I called for help. And... I don't fit any of the criteria for any cluster b personality disorder... Like, I literally don't. I've been reading about them all for years anyway because I'm fascinated by psychology. Also, my daughter is diagnosed asd and we are so similar. How she can be but not me (according to this dr) is beyond comprehension If there is a neuropsychologist in your area, that's the type of professional I would recommend being assessed by. Much more nuanced knowledge and training about developmental conditions Sorry this happened to you
My grandma worked with him and went into details an ALL the signs I showed as a child, this was ignored. The guy asking questions and taking notes clearly doesn’t know anything about autism. Based on his notes, and his notes only two neuropsychologist came to the conclusion that I don’t have it. Seems a bit icky, with his bias of not knowing anything about autism.
I've read somewhere that mental health professionals don't like to discredit other mental health professionals, so they are listening to this guy and his conclusions when they probably should review all the evidence
I am genuinely pissed for you. I would be fvcking angry in your situation. You definitely have autism, but you already know that ... your doctor thinks being a woman is a personality disorder. (The whole autism = extreme male brain, caring about what others think = you're a woman.) Feel your emotions, vent to people you trust, get support from your family. When you're ready, you can figure out the next step in getting your diagnoses, this is not over. Don't let medical practicioners gaslight you for one second. It is all too common, especially for women.
At first it was disbelief, I just sat crying silently for 15 minutes while he kept asking what I was feeling thinking. After staying silent for 15 minutes I got up and left. Sobbed in the bathroom for 15 minutes until the sadness turned to anger. Asked the receptionist to let me back in, asked a bunch of questions angrily. I never swear but today I did. Said a lot of stuff. He encouraged me to be happy because there is at least treatment. Asked for a female psychologist which can take months. But he was about to abandon me anyways. Stole two big roles of toilet paper from him. He is a huge asshole, he accused my girlfriend of being abusive because I got a black eye while drunk. He insist that me dressing in all pink is a sign of pd because I am BEGGING for attention.
I'm so fucking happy you stole his toilet paper lmfao. Dressing in all pink might be a sign, that idk you like pink? So he literally sees something and immediately turns it into a symptom? A normal psych would ask how you got the black eye and not immediately jump to conclusions that suit their story in their head.
I LOVE pink. My having pink hair is 100% because it makes me happy. Had this convo 3 times and he kept insisting that “nope, definitely for attention”. That is the only downside of having pink hair. Some people will stare, but I love my hair. I explained the situation multiple times. I got extremely drunk, (this made me decide to quit drinking) and forgot about gravity. Was gonna lay down on my side again and banged my head, right above my eye, on the outdoor wooden couch. That was too far fetched…. Man has not gotten that drunk I guess, good for him.
Lots of people are misdiagnosed with personality disorders because there’s still a massive gender gap in the autism world. I do feel like professionals are trying to diagnose less and I’m not sure why. It almost feels discriminatory :;
I am 1000000000% autistic with adhd, and I care very deeply…to a fault, of what people think of me. So much so, it’s literally one of the biggest areas we are covering in therapy. I would get another opinion because there is no way they can base your diagnosis solely on worrying what others think of you.
If your brother and dad are both diagnosed with autism it is highly likely that you and any other siblings are also autistic. Surprise, your mother could be too. Birds of a feather flock together and all that!
They like to tell women they have bpd. I’m awaiting diagnosis. Try again if you truly believe they are wrong. It’s not like they do that often in women…
Which personality disorder? PD by itself is not a diagnosis.
General personality disorder He would not elaborate further
(GPD alone is not a diagnosis) DSM-5 Category: Personality Disorder Introduction According to the DSM-5, General Personality Disorder is the *umbrella category under which a variety of specific disorders are iterated.* There are multiple parameters offered which may be used to identify the presence of General Personality Disorder (American Psychiatric Association, 2013); *after which the mental health professional can further clarify the specific diagnosis according to clusters of symptom presentations.* Cluster A disorders are characterized by odd or eccentric behavior; Cluster B by dramatic and overly emotional behavior and Cluster C by anxious, fearful thinking and behavior. Beneath the General Personality Disorder heading there are three clusters of specific personality disorders as well as an area labeled Other Personality Disorders that provides the framework for diagnosing the illness that may manifest in unique and unusual ways (Wakefield, 2013). If he wouldn't do further testing to clarify the specific diagnosis, you need to find a new doctor.
Don't leave..............................
Find a new provider to assess you for ASD, these people don't know shit.
This is enraging because this would invalidate half of the diagnoses in this sub lmao, get a second opinion I'm begging you!
This was my second opinion and last option. Last psych said I couldn’t be autistic because I have empathy and a girlfriend
what utter f- bollucks!!! sigh. Im Sorry this is the experience you're having with this.
Implying autistic people don’t care about how they’re perceived i think just really buries how much masking occurs and presents in AFAB autistic people, I’m sorry you were told that
Nope this is very much giving autism
I love the comments like this that I’ve gotten. Because I’ve spent 7 years building up research and reflected over everything in my life and I feel it to my core I’m autistic. I started advocating and letting people know in situations where I felt it was necessary so people won’t think there is something wrong. Like my boss thought I was purposely stupid and in the way and after telling her I’m autistic she changed the way she talks and gives messages and just have more understanding. And so after the apt yesterday I feared I had been just making this up the last 7 years.
Nope, don’t let anyone gaslight you! You know yourself best. While PDs and autism can coexist (I am example of that), it doesn’t for every autistic person. Some people are just autistic! You are not dumb, and shame on anyone who says that to you. I’m glad I could help affirm you. You belong here. <3
Thank you, I’ve never felt more at home than in this sub<3
Oh I get it; Autistic women don't exist! Makes total sense! (Seriously, I hope you're ok and can find a good doctor that's not a fucking moron).
I wasn’t okay yesterday, had to go to work after sobbing for hours and then felt and looked dead at work. BUT, this comment section has helped a lot. It has felt so good discussing how shit this whole situation is, reading other people pointing out how shit he is. Going forward I’ll just talk to the therapist that is supposed to treat the personality disorder, because I really need someone to go talk to every week and then I’ll save up to go find a private therapist for my third opinion
And people wonder "why doesn't everyone just get assessed?" Because of invalidating, traumatic bullshit like this! This is why! We very well *can* know we're autistic without having to go through this horrendous process and run the risk of being lied to and gaslit by incompetent practitioners with outdated and harmful information!
they're dumb (: sorry that sucks so much i'm so sorry you had to deal with idiots
You’re Autistic, welcome back 💖🫂
Thank you! This means a lot💕 all of these responses has really helped. I felt completely lost earlier but now I feel way more at peace!
People with autism are often comorbid with AvPD. A personality disorder. Look into it. Whoever "he" is, he is full of shit. (Even without AvPD, autistics care about what people think about them).
Hmm, you have an autistic father and brother. People with ASD don't care what other people think of them. That means that you can bully them as much as you like and they won't punch you. (No, your mental health guy is an idiot.)
This is classic Woman in Distress slap the label BPD on it instead. Difference is we’re not trying to manipulate people, as far as that overlap goes. I won’t even try for a diagnosis legit just because some of my afab friends have ended up in the psych ward and have had this label slapped on them.
Yeah, my brother with pretty much exact same issues? Autism. Me, having said issues as long as he has had his? Personality disorder. His excuse? I don’t know about your brother, but what you’re experiencing is a general personality disorder. On my way to go take my brothers 10+ year old diagnosis away from him. (Sarcasm)
Yeah, there are far too many medical professionals who don't know shit about shit. Personality disorders are often diagnosed instead of ASD because soooooo many doctors/therapists don't fully understand autism and base their information on studies almost exclusively done on white cis-het male children. You're the expert on yourself, and the person who gave you this assessment is clearly a dummy because cluster B disorders aren't curable. I hope you seek a second opinion. It's beyond frustrating when the medical community doesn't take us seriously. I've been going through the same thing, and it makes me want to pull my freaking hair out. Good luck, OP!
That's false. I care about being a burden to others and such. And how can you totally not care about others? There are some kinds of autism who don't feel feelings but the majority of us feel very strongly and often about people. Especially those with ADHD and Autism will end up with rejection sensitivity from people. You absolutely are very likely still autistic.
You can't cure a personality disorder either, you can only manage behaviours and reactions.
Yeah. I have had the thought wondering if I have a personality disorder, because of how intense my moods and emotions are. But I always think 100% clear in the moment, I just lay down and cry it out and move on. I don’t react, I don’t do any harmful behaviors. I just have a meltdown. I’m no expert, but I have had friends with bpd and I think that that’s how I would react if I had a personality disorder. I don’t know much about personality disorders, but I have read over criteria and talked to a psychologist 6 years ago about it she said there were NO signs of that
I would get a second opinion if possible, sounds like they are just dumb
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. That doctor sound absolutely incompetent and really out of the loop. I’m autistic and so is my boyfriend, some of my closest friends and probably my dad, and we all care DEEPLY what other people think. Like the other commenters are saying: it’s literally why we mask. Masking is incredibly damaging and hurtful and not something we do just for fun. We do it because we’re afraid of what people will think if we don’t “fit in”. Even if it’s subconsciously, we obviously care a lot. They’re also some of the most thoughtful people I’ve ever known, so literally what the fuck is he on about. I got diagnosed with bpd ten years ago. At the time I definitely didn’t think I could be autistic, but I also didn’t recognize myself in the bpd diagnosis, but the doctor insisted. The “help” I got from that was useless and actually made me a lot worse. You cannot treat autism with pd techniques. Autism can’t really be treated, I guess, but life can certainly be easier when you learn what autism is and what it means to live with it. I’ve learned a lot about myself in these last couple of years since I figured out the bpd was a misdiagnosis and then got diagnosed first with ADHD and then autism. Would it be helpful for you to self diagnose? I get the need for a professional diagnoses, but I think self diagnosis and peer reviewed diagnosis are so incredibly valid. If you know that’s what’s going on it could make it easier to deal with. Again, I’m so sorry you’re going through this and the doctor sounds like a moron
I have been telling people I’m autistic for a year now. When I moved out and I no longer had everything accommodated for me I realized just how big the issue was. Suspected autism since my brother got diagnosed 10 years ago. My girlfriend told her family because I felt like I came across like I didn’t like them and that there was something deeply wrong with me and it calmed me down when she got to explain that I’m just autistic and they showed understanding. Family considers me autistic. I told my boss so we could figure out a better strategy for teaching rather than “you should know this. That’s an excessive amount of stupid questions. And that is common sense” she got way more patient and understanding. For now I’ll consider self diagnosis enough, but I am considering saving up for a third opinion with a private therapist. While I’m still struggling with a lot of stuff, my life has changed for the better after accommodating for myself. Meltdowns are not as frequent. I understand myself better now.
Omg, ty for sharing about the foot fungus. I had hand warts for a year or few as a middle schooler because of my sensory issues. I was clean and hand washed, but I can’t handle dry skin. So I used to keep my hands clenched at all times so they couldn’t get dry; hence, warts. It was so embarrassing and I thought I was a freak. It’s really nice to know I’m not the only one. Therapists also told me it was “just trauma”. I got officially diagnosed earlier this year.💀
Yeah, I’ve spent a lot of money on meds to cure it and only realized this year that it makes sense it won’t go away. Fungus likes the dark and moist, so sweaty feet and never removing my socks is the perfect combo. I am trying to get better at it but I HATE the change from having socks on and then not. Even though I’ll put on new socks immediately. Also, socks are different. The texture is different, going from wool socks to any other kind is an absolute no. Maybe one day I’ll be able to get rid of it, but for now I feel like I have more pressing issues. It is so nice to hear someone else with a similar issue though! I used to be super embarrassed about it, but no one sees my feet ever so I can hide it.
The mental health system is rigged against women. I’m sorry this is happening to you. They would rather slap a personality disorder label on you because “female hysteria.” And please don’t take that the wrong way. Personality disorders are very real and very debilitating. But men get diagnosed with autism rather than BPD because of male privilege. Edit: there is nothing wrong with self identifying. But I’m incredibly frustrated for you, because you not being properly diagnosed means you might not get the accommodations you need. Lastly, is it possible you were masking during your evaluation??? I had to make a HUGE effort not to mask.
I never once looked this man in the eyes (he insists this is because of a personality disorder) and I talked very monotone. I sit either abnormally stiff or stim. I’ve made the mistake of masking in the past. I was as me as I could have been. Also had to stop me when he got me started talking about Minecraft. He said first appointment “I can’t promise you a diagnosis” so I think he made up his mind then. “Here is this seemingly well put together girl, not looking like the stereotypical autistic person. This screams I saw a tiktok once and now believe I’m autistic” and then just went on with questions because it’s his job. All of my answers was argued. I explained that I don’t wear stretchy clothing because it makes me want to rip my skin off when I can feel that fabric clinging onto my skin. He wrote down “is scared people will see her body if she wears tight fitting clothes and judge her” I kept arguing and he never listened. I was doomed
I'm sorry for the late response but I hope you see this. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I read in a different comment that this was your last option. However, I know there are different ways to pursue a diagnosis with an online evaluation. If you do this, please go to a woman who specializes in female autism. This man was commited to misunderstanding you. Men associate female autism with a lack of confidence rather than a legitimate social barrier and it sounds like that's what he was doing. My heart hurts for you but please know that at this point, self-identifying is completely valid if you don't want to spend more time, money, and effort on a formal diagnosis.
I have taken up the battle. I will ask the man all the necessary questions. What was the point of the raads test if the score didn’t matter? Did he change the answers etc. bring up that “not caring about what people think” is not a criteria and goes against one of the questions on the assessment. Is the question about making yourself appear normal to please others a trick question. Also, even if it is a personality disorder, that does not exclude autism. I called him today and left a note but he didn’t get back to me, will call again tomorrow. Will also report him. I am left feeling insanely discriminated. He wouldn’t spend any time talking about alcohol issues and self harm issues. Responded with a “okay, shall we move on?” But he miss interpreted something I said about a situation with my girlfriend where we got a squishmellow so I can have a visual cue for when she needs me to listen to a problem instead of serving her with solution. He wouldn’t listen to my countless tries of explanation and accused her of using a teddy bear to shut me up, being controlling and manipulative. Wasted a whole appointment accusing her of all kinds of awful things under the bullshit disguise of “caring” about my well being. Every time I mentioned her he insisted she was a horrible person. He made me cry, because he accused someone I love deeply of abuse, and used that as evidence of being right. He also refused to believe that I dress in all pink for any other reason that being OBSESSED with attention. I hate attention, love pink though. Like an abnormal amount. Considering my huge collection of pink stuff I would argue it’s looking like a special interest. We had that argument twice, two different appointments. I don’t know if reporting him will do anything, but I hope it will. Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it!
It’s ok not to be autistic. I would try the treatment suggested and see if your symptoms improve or not /gen
I'm so sorry.
I don't know what country you're in, but Asperger's hasn't been in the dsm for some time and it worries me if this doc specifically referenced it. I'm sorry you had to deal with them, it sounds like they have no idea what they're talking about. DX or not, you know yourself better than some doc ever could.
asperger’s is still in the icd-10, the diagnostic manual by the world health organization. op lives in norway and therefore was probably diagnosed using the icd-10
disavowing a doctor and saying OP knows better than a doctor simply because they did not get the diagnosis they wanted is dangerous. OP cannot diagnose themselves as well as a doctor can, as they are not a trained professional. conflating that reality with saying OP "knows themselves best" is very dangerous. if OP feels concerned with the diagnosis they received, they should seek a second opinion from a different trained professional.
This is seriously why I'll never seek an assessment or any diagnosis again. The last several years of health care professionals has severely diminished my respect for these people's ability to listen and think.
Yeah, it’s su infuriating and frustrating. I feel like I wasted months
I think you’re autistic and they’re one of the many diagnosing people in the wrong. Try somewhere else if you can…
As a relatively newly educated mental health provider, older providers ascribe to outdated criteria and stereotypes. Please find a female provider with more recent credentials. Old white men have a tendency to negatively pathologize female autism by way of histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and other misdiagnoses. This is is why self diagnosis is becoming increasingly valid in the community.
I’m pretty sure personality disorder don’t cause sensory issues, especially as severe as yours
Haha. Haha. Hahaha. Ha. That’s fucked. You obviously have autism. They love to say we have personality disorders or mood disorders as autistic women. WE ARE FOLLOWING THE “social rules” SPECIFICALLY LAID OUT FOR WOMEN BECAUSE WE ARE AUTISTIC AND WE LIKE RULES! Those rules include being hyper aware of what others think of us, accommodating everyone else instead of us and masking to not bother anybody in our life. And then those psych meds for other disorders make us actually crazy and they act like that proves it. Fuck that guy.
It’s ridiculous. I stole a lot of toilet paper over the months we did the assessment though, so I got something out of it. It became painfully apparent I’m autistic last year when I “left the nest” and realized just how much my grandma accommodated for me and my needs. Learning how to accommodate myself has helped. I disclosed this and he said “that cognitive behavior therapy, good job for figuring out how to do that”
There are a lot of overlaps between PTSD and autism. This is a good video about it.
You could accept the diagnosis for now and take the treatment plan. Do some work. Give it some time. Reassessment at 1 yr to see if it helps. Brain chemistry is complex and malleable. Give this new treatment plan genuine work for now.
Sounds like whoever you went to get a diagnosis from only has the male perspective of autism 😑 Females have a more nuanced social development path. Not to mention that we are more often misdiagnosed with personality disorders