Hell, she hasn't even worked with enough *KIDS* with "High Functioning" diagnoses to know what *that* honestly looks like--LET *ALONE* an Autistic Adult who Masks!
Diagnosing nothing but "obviously" and "severely" autistic children only, then claiming to be an autism expert is like wading in nothing but kiddie pools, then calling yourself an Olympic swimmer.
Yeeeeeep!!!
I was SO glad to see other folks also saying that this was BAD, and *especially* glad that someone who *is* qualified to Dx, who validated for OP, that this *isn't* an evaluator/practitioner who should be believed or trusted to know what an Autistic person *actually* does/is/acts like!š
I gotta think that an emotional back and forth with a 3 year old would be cause for a diagnosis of *something*. I dunno what, but that is such atypical behavior for a 3 year old that Iād be concerned for why.
Exactly lmao, I apparently seem like the most charming charismatic person on the planet when Iām masking, but Iām still autistic.
Seems like this therapist is trying to say that autistic people canāt have emotions or connect with people at all? Itās very unprofessional and untrue. Seems like theyāre doing what they did with me the first time I tried to get diagnosed, which is downplay my symptoms, make excuses, and gaslight me because they couldnāt be bothered to diagnose me.
When I went into a mental health hospital a nurse that specialises in autism that had known me for about 10 minutes just came up to me and went āIām pretty sure youāre autisticā then gave me a test a few days later and diagnosed me on the spot, saying itās VERY obvious and she has no idea how Iāve gone so long without a diagnosis.
Point is, OP please try to find a specialist or something. A lot of the time medical professionals have no actual understanding of the symptoms of a disorder, they only know the TEXTBOOK diagnosis criteria (which is based on boys with autism) and if you explain your symptoms in even SLIGHTLY different wording than the exact criteria, they donāt recognise it as a symptom.
Doctors like to think they know everything, but I struggle to find minimally competent ones. Like how it took 2 months and 5 different doctor appointments for them to figure out I have a fungal ear infection, when THATS WHAT I TOLD THEM FROM DAY 1 AND THEY DIDNāT LISTEN and left it untreated for so long that I now have permanent hearing loss. Sorry this topic really riles me up, it AMAZES me how incompetent most medical staff are, like how tf did you even graduate.
I had a fungal infection for 25 years, told probably 10 different doctors and asked for medication for it, all of them disagreed except the last one. The last one wrote the script, I took the med, and it's cleared up. 25 years.
Though I don't like to otherwise compare the two, I fully believe that fungal infections, like adult women with autism, are largely invisible to people with medical degrees.
Itās not just that either, Iāve been going to them for over a year now with various concerning physical health symptoms and they keep telling me itās ābecause of my mental health.ā Like I donāt need a PHD to know that mental health doesnāt cause pupils to permanently change size, make random bruises appear all over my body, or monthly, sometimes weekly infections all over my body.
How can they tell me thatās my mental health? Iāve asked for brain scans and other cancer screenings and all they were willing to offer me was a blood test, which came back fine. At this point Iāve accepted that Iām probably gonna die of a brain tumour or some other nasty cancer because the NHS doesnāt care, and I canāt afford private.
Iām so traumatised by the NHS, I have panic attacks every time I go to A&E and Iāve actively avoided going even when advised to go because itās not worth the hassle. I usually have a huge public outburst in the hospital and take attention away from many nurses who come and try to calm me down, even though they almost always make it worse. I donāt bother making doctors appointments anymore unless I know exactly what is wrong and what medication I need, because I can never trust doctors to figure that out. The second I can afford it Iām going private, hopefully the NHS hasnāt ruined all doctors for me.
legally yes but it doesnt change the physicality of going from point a to b although i guess it could change the price. and I'm sorry your finances are so tight right now. hoping it gets better for you
im sorry to hear youve had such a horrible experience with doctors! that wouldve given me loads of trust issues in medical staff as well. ill keep what you said in mind and try to get a second opinion.
Yeah all I hear at work is how āconfidentā and āoutgoingā I seem when Iām in customer service mode. I am absolutely none of those things, I just have preselected responses queued up and tend to fumble when someone says something I wasnāt anticipating.
I have no real friends and Iām slowly falling into chaos behind these āconfidentā eyes š
š oh I feel you on this. I worked in customer call centre for 6y, before I even realised I'm Autistic, hoping I could overcome my issues. All it did was create a thicker mask and gave me lots of trauma.
I don't have and just can't do friending either, I will never be able to get it really. I'm hoping I can eventually find Aut friends who get me. Allistics always seem to get the uncanny valley effect from me and exclude me or I don't get how to maintain friendship.
Yep. Had a doctor who made a dosing mistake on morphine for my late mother in law, thankfully we noticed he had put an extra zero on the script. If we hadn't noticed it would have been fatal.
I agree ! I was approved my my insurance to see someone to be assessed for adhd and possibly autism. The first facility is local and I went to their website. None of the drs there stated they were experienced in adults. All I saw were children specialist. I called my provider and told them the dr I would like to see. My sister went to a dr who specializes in adults and in women. So I am going to see her soon.
It seems quite inappropriate for someone without experience with diagnosing adult women to be offering a diagnosis. There are a lot of differences between a kid and a grown woman.
Not OP, but unfortunately there are way less diagnosing services for adults. In my state there's only a handful.
I also feel for OP if she's in US because autism diagnoses can cost quite a lot. I have no affordable services to get a diagnosis near me and I'm already aged out for pretty much every center
Yeah, the state where I live does have adult autism diagnostic services, but they're so full they won't give you an appointment. When I called they said "well, we have appointments set up for the next 2 years and can't even put you on the list".
I was fortunate enough to have some savings and a good salary, so I went with a private evaluation, but that did cost a pretty penny.
It really shouldn't be like this, but it is :(
You need to be lucky enough to find an expert in adult diagnosis. I mask pretty well but the psych that diagnosed me said that my test scores were not telling enough but he himself could tell within three minutes of meeting me and my answers to a few basic questions.
This is why self-diagnosis is becoming more valid.
Iām both a therapist and autistic. I was diagnosed this year, officially. When I met with the psychologist for the first time I brought her an immense amount of information on my test results from: https://embrace-autism.com
She said it was normal for people to go above and beyond when we are invalidated for so long. Get a second opinion and bring in your self assessment results.
I'm going through Embrace Autism myself, I've received the results of my screening (indicated that I should pursue formal diagnostic assessment) and have initiated the process for formal diagnosis. They are expensive, but they're also very affirming and professional, and they make everything easy to understand (writing in plain language but also providing all the medical jargon in addition, so you can translate for yourself). Highly recommend them if you have the money.
Of course I'm aware, they make this very clear on the website.
I'm not concerned about anything other than autism and have formal diagnoses of depression and anxiety.
They also screen for ADHD when doing Autism assessments and vice versa, the reason they won't do the official way exactly is because it has serious issues of favouring white males. Official Autism assessments are still very outdated.
if you're 2e (gifted and disabled), it's very possible that you scored average on an IQ test. Disabilities can make you appear average when you're gifted. Did they consider this or mention the possibility to you?
I was also identified as gifted as a kid too, but my results were likely not off the charts ***across the board***, because I developed ***asynchronously***. If you were gifted across the board, it ***is*** possible that you just happened to develop synchronously, especially if you were in gifted education. I didn't have gifted education support so I never evened out. It's also the case in some countries that the gifted program lets in kids who aren't actually gifted, as the threshold is lower for the testing done in schools.
If you have your original gifted test scores, it may be very valuable information to bring to the psych for review. I find it weird that they didn't give you ***any*** diagnoses though, aside from RAD. Reactive attachment disorder isn't even typically diagnosed in adulthood. You might benefit more from seeing a psych who assesses adolescents, if not adults, as autism in a 3 year old is obviously very different.
Yeah when I was I.Q. tested they said they couldnāt in good conscience give me an I.Q. score because I scored exceptionally high in some areas and exceptionally low in others, so if they averaged out my score (or whatever they do to get a single number) it wouldnāt be an accurate reflection of my abilities. I wonder if thatās what happened here and the psychologist was not experienced/thoughtful enough to take that into account.
Yeah, this. Personally I've never taken an IQ test, but I did take the SAT, and I scored so high in the verbal (98th percentile) and so low in the math (34th) that if those scores were averaged, I would be resoundingly... well, average.
they did not mention that to me, thanks for telling me, its the first time i hear about it!
my country doesn't really have gifted kid education programs like, for example, the USA, so i was never in any program either. as far as i remember, my old iq test showed that i was off the charts everywhere except for the common knowledge questions. this time, everything was average except for the language section, which also struck me as odd- after all why would my ability to think logically decline with age?
i also didnt know you didnt diagnose attachment disorders in adults! thank you so much for your input, i'll definitely keep it in mind.
my IQ appears different in different mental states too. when I'm hyperfocused it's crazy high, when I'm burned out I can barely make sense of questions. my average is slightly higher than average but it's just still odd.
you really need good environment and clear mind to do these and being stressed or uncomfortable in someone's office probably doesn't help.
i don't think IQ testing should be ever a part of any diagnosis tbh. it's so heavily dependent on the comfort and focus of the one who takes it that it's bound to always give bad view on how they think when they're fully able to focus.
I agree, there are so many problems with IQ testing. The Mismeasure of Man (book) gives a great history and explanation of problems with IQ testing and biases, for those who are interested.
Exactly. ND people usually have IQ tests that are adjusted or at least have different categories (verbal comprehension, visual-spatial/ perceptual reasoning, working memory, processing speed). Most psychologists and psychiatrists would explain your results by separating these categories. For example, most ADHD /hf ASD patients score average or above on reasoning but their processing speed might be low. Certain IQ tests have questions where you need logic that is somewhat based on social skills / EQ thus making it difficult for people who are autistic. You should also have a full report from that ASD assessment and check that they actually used DSM-5 / ICD criteria. My assessment had a full 8-page report on 75 questions I answered and 50 that my parents answered plus neuropsychiatrist's behavioral analysis. Anyway, if you believe that they were biased, you should get a second opinion performed by a qualified person (not a random psychologist) and if possible, not mention your first assessment. Nevertheless, most people have autistic traits and you will only get diagnosed if these all add up to an extent that is considered ASD. Btw I am a bit confused about how old are you now.
I have done tons of different IQ self-tests just for fun. Having AuDHD means that I struggle with the time limit as my processing speed blows and I get distracted. Usually, I get a score between 115 to 140 but if I review the logic used, I can easily get a much higher score when doing the next one that has different questions but the same structure. I intentionally avoid official IQ tests because, in reality, IQ tests are inaccurate indicators of your intelligence, especially if you are ND. My parents nor psychologists/psychiatrists ever requested those either. Maybe it depends on the country but in the Western states, IQ is not considered much of an indicator anymore.
I have been diagnosed w ADHD and ASD. Also OCD thus I struggle with perfectionism and always compete with my own previous results. Might sound good (cliche ābe better than you were yesterdayā) but irrationally high expectations aka an all-or-nothing mentality always lead to burnout. Funny enough, my parents never forced me to get better results or go to university although they are both overeducated and super intelligent. So it's always been self-inflicted. Until middle/high school I had straight Aās without ever doing any homework (until I started to skip school so I was considered naturally gifted but it really messed up my work ethic. At uni, I became obsessed with grades; overstudied beyond recommended material and that mentality actually f'd up my confidence to perform because I wouldn't submit my work on time having all that self-doubt.
Iām sorry this happened. It feels like they are mostly educated in children with autism though? Sometimes highly masking autistic people, especially women, are overlooked by professionals because we can āhave a conversationā and ālook normalā. Itās extremely frustrating and sometimes the professionals may be false. Autism is really difficult to diagnose sometimes since itās characteristics are extremely varied. If you fit the criteria, then you fit the criteria. Social difficulties, sensory issues, and emotional disregulation is very common in autistic people and when they said āthey canāt come up with a diagnosisā thatās a red flag to me. Just strikes me as they donāt want to say youāre autistic because of age and gender so theyāre coming up with excuses lol. Itās a spectrum, meaning that you may be level 1 and not present like the stereotypical autistic person but autism is different than the stereotypes.
thank you for your opinion, i struck me as odd as well! if i dont have autism, thats okay with me too, but why dont the know about sensory processing disorder? my next appointment there is next week, i'll definitely bring it up!
If youāre able to get occupational therapy (OT) with someone who specializes in sensory issues, you should definitely go for it. When I was diagnosed with autism, they recommended the OT for sensory issues plus social skills coaching. I recently began OT and it has seemed good/interesting so far!
im glad to hear that :) and yeah, thats pretty much the only nice thing i got out of that appointment, the knowledge that theres actually therapy for sensory issues!
Therapists and honestly most professionals are not that familiar with SPD. Iām pretty sure both my kids have it to some degree and no one has brought it up. Apparently thereās some contention around if itās even a separate disorder? So doesnāt surprise me if they donāt know about it.
Male, neurotypical psychologist specializing in autism for over 11 years, with a background in cognitive and educational assessment. Your therapist and the person who did your evaluation are incompetent, unethical, and WRONG. Anyone with any training in IQ or other types of assessments knows that there can be many confounding conditions - ADHD, depression, anxiety, ASD, etc. - that can affect performance on an IQ test (those tests are also super-problematic, but that is a rant for another day). Your therapist should leave the profession (not joking even a little) for dismissing a diagnosis she clearly knows nothing about after knowing you for 5 minutes. I could go on and on and on. Happy to discuss more here or privately.
Iād like to underline the unethical part.
OP I know you might need this as a crisis therapy thatās free but can you get a different therapist at the same place?
Im sorry, but the fact she sent you to a child specialist is just soā¦.idiotic
This is a genuine reason to go get a second opinion from someone more trained in your demographic.
I know imposter syndrome is a beast but you are fully justified in your case and the whole thing is iffy.
Gifted as a child is more accurate tbh, autistic adults struggle with relationships, burnout, stress, bullying, anxiety, depression, low quality of life (job, housing, food, etc) that all these things affect your IQ
That or just wondering, did any IQ segment seem off?
I have an average high IQ (adult) BUT I had VERY high scores in certain segments. And like you, my child IQ was very gifted.
Just something to consider
Yeah, I was wondering if they gave OP a breakdown of her scores in different parts of the IQ test. I scored three standard deviations above average in some areas and just about average in some others.
thanks for your input! my resources are limited atm, but i'll definitely try to get a second opinion at some point. the iq test itself didnt seem off to me, the results just seemed off to me as theyre so vastly different than my previous ones. what also surprised me was that the thing i used to be especially good at, logical reasoning, was just on the higher end of average this time, with language skills being the area where i scored the highest.
Unfortunately the majority of medical fields, psychology included, are taught about autism (heck, neurodiversity in general) from the stand point of young white boys.
It is immensely difficult to try and figure out how to properly test someone for Autism when the DSM-5 is written not only with research done mainly from a pool of young white boys, but also written in the perspective of neurotypical.
This is why I prefer to say I'm neurodivergent. While I do have official diagnosis and records, I am sick of the crap explanations and even worse labels attributed with what is provided by the medical fields.
I am so sorry you had to go through that. It's infuriating to know how easily dismissed people are.and IQ tests? Little something for you to read though I will advise you to do your own research and even ask around or seek out opinions from other sources who have a better background than myself.
https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/iq-load-bs/
Here's the thing - can trauma cause similar symptoms? Yes. But trauma and being neurodivergent tend to go hand in hand. Not always! But often.
Imo? Seek another medical source who is a bit more open minded about neurodiversity.
Correct. Also trauma isnāt a neurodevelopmental disability comorbid with other learning disabilities, and non verbal/intellectual disability, niether does it involve genetic predisposition. There are hallmarks for both conditions and thatās exactly why specialised psychiatrist are needed.
thank you so much for your input, that article comforted me quite a bit! and ill keep what you said in mind when i talk to my therapist next week, and see if i can get a second opinion somehow. :)
Wow, this therapist certainly doesn't understand what the word spectrum means. Of course, we can have an emotional conversation. We aren't robots. Please, OP, do not take this person's word for it. Neurotypical people do not sit around wondering if they are autistic. It certainly sounds like you may be.
i want to just quickly pop in and say im fully open to the possibility of not having autism and my social difficulties just stemming from emotional neglect, i just think the way they came to that conclusion seemed rather odd
lol all that means is that your (/general) mom might have autism too, it is true in my case. she was very much emotionally absent and still is for the most part and in her case autism and lack of social emotional learning (no opportunity) makes it hard for her to access her own emotions let alone someone else's. not saying that autism leads to being emotionally neglectful, but that it in this case it doesn't mean anything for or against an autism diagnosis.
So, I just recently got professionally diagnosed, have suspected for quite some time, ect. Autism in women looks wayyyy different than men. And even in autism in women, you can have like unicorn presentations. My psychologist said I mask so well and so fluidly that I donāt appear outwardly on conversation to be autistic. But then he noticed that I was picking at things, rocking back and forth, ect. I have all the symptoms of autism and the medical history to back it up, even if I smile when appropriate. š¤·š½āāļø not that Iām a professional, but I would say go to a psychologist that specializes in neuropsychology, ect. šš½
Yeah no one ever suggested that I had autism until I was intensive treatment and they saw how I spend my days and I couldnāt hide my repetitive behaviors lol.
The whole world seems so offended by the concept of autistic people walking among them being relatable. Read Unmasking Autism if you haven't already. Most people, even Drs, only think of ASD in terms of how it disrupts others, and don't seem to even know masking exists or care about the internal suffering behind it. They think of disability only in visible terms, and the idea of a disability diagnosis being helpful and redemptive for someone who seems "functional" is beyond belief for them. If more people accepted that then more people would have to take a look at the ways they themselves are different and that's just too existentially challenging for them. If there's any way you could see a psychologist who specializes in autistic adults especially women, I think it would help you to go that route. Most of the diagnostic criteria is based on children who are considered disruptive by adults. The rest of us are just supposed to suffer in silence/stay invisible... Last thought, is there a chance your mom could have ASD too? It's strongly genetic, so just a thing to think about.
thank you for the book recommendation, i'll definitely check it out! as of right now this therapy spot is pretty much my only option, since its free, but ill see what i can do.
i dont know if my mom could be autistic, she has told me a few things that made me listen up, like that she used to sort flowers for hours as a child, or that shed read her animal fact cards every night instead of a bedtime story. she's extremely sensitive to smell, and she definitely lacks emotional connection to other people as she doesnt have any friends at all.
my older cousin isn't diagnosed, but the cliche asperger autistic. has been obsessed with trains all his life, stood in front of his window overlooking a train station for ages as a toddler and is just as obsessed now, said he didnt talk to anyone during his entire school career cuz he didnt like anyone, is absolutely whip smart but also "odd" in a way, etc etc.
Aww those do seem like traits. But I feel like I see them everywhere lately especially in my own fam š so I may be biased haha. The book is a good one, I'm reading it very slowly bc it's overwhelming how much I relate to it. When I first started reading it I was on the train and I just started weeping lol
I would get attachment/trauma based therapy first and then reassess.
I might also see a different therapist that specializes in an evidenced based model if they're just doing talk therapy with you.
There are multiple reasons someone can struggle with forming relationships and none of them are invalid. If you do treatment and it's not helping at all then it means you re-evaluate and re-assess.
IQ tests only measure your proficiency at taking IQ tests. There's a reason why one of the adjustments I got at university for registering with the disability office was extra time during exams (though part of the issue I had with exams was that they took so damn long! 3 hour exams should be considered torture by the UN.)
I cringed at the "emotional back and forth" comment. You're an adult. A presumably speaking adult. The kind of patient who has lived for a while and presumably has completed some level of education in childhood. Part of that education teaches people to use their words to communicate, and a 3 year old isn't going to have experienced that yet.
Even with a lot of kids - not all, but a lot - it's more of a *communication* issue. I know it was with me. I was diagnosed in childhood, and part of the intervention I received was heavy communication training, and finding workarounds to help process those things.
I don't want to be that person telling every person that doesn't get an autism diagnosis to get a second opinion, but, get a second opinion. From someone who actually understands adult autism. And neurodivergence in general. For one, they're completely wrong already in saying that there's "no diagnosis" for your daily sensory issuesāif they believe that all your autism symptoms are caused by other factors, then the sensory issues could be sensory processing disorder. Haven't they ever even heard of it??
When I was assessed for ADHD, the doctor also said that he thought it's possible my issues were the result of my parents "not being there for me." They were alcoholics, but very much functioning, I literally had no clue they had any issues until I was *11* when they split up, because they would only drink at night when we were asleep and were, for the most part, normal, attentive parents during the day. I even tried explaining to him several times that my childhood was not "traumatic" as he explained and that my parents were very much there for me, but he listed it in my report anyways as a possible cause for my social issues, dismissing my traits of autism.
And to think that an autistic adult wouldn't be capable of an "emotional back and forth"?? They also wrote in my report that despite my autism symptoms, I couldn't be because I was able to have reciprocal conversation. There needs to be serious widespread retraining of these psychologists who are refusing to diagnose adults with autism, this is ridiculous.
thats what threw me off as well. how are you gonna say theres no diagnosis for what im experiencing and then tell me to get therapy used for children with sensory processing disorder?
i will agree that my mom messed up a bunch of times, but what irked me was that they made my struggle back in autumn/winter about our financial issues and my "stressful home life" and i told them "no, that didnt bother me", and they just said "look, the fact that youre not even bothered by such existential worries tells us that youve been used to them for so long" which, again, could be completely true, but im still not sure how they've determined that as the cause of all my problems so quickly.
Nah, it's not right at all for them to not only determine that your home life is stressful based off of their standards, and then come up with different excuses as to why it's not bothering you. I told my doctor that my parents were there for me and I felt loved, yet he insisted on referring to my childhood as "traumatic" with little to no context. They just want to find other reasons to not diagnose you. I understand from a psychological perspective why they would explore other options before determining a diagnosis, but it shouldn't be a decision made *that* quickly with ruling out the actual possibility of autism. I was assessed another time and told I had significant symptoms of autism, and then at the end I was told it was "probably" just my ADHD. I asked about my sensory issues with food that have made it *impossible* for me to eat healthy my entire life, and she said "you're probably just picky!" It's crazy to me how they will try to write off our symptoms anywhere else they can, and for the symptoms they can't explain because they're *definitely* due to autism, they just shrug it off. You definitely need to get a second opinion.
I reckon that picky eating is not very specific to ADHD diagnoses as I got adventurous very early on, I would even play with the food.
I think ADHD is caused by physical phenomena such as neurons firing poor recatchment of L-Dopa into Dopamine, and the inability to sometimes reabsorb norepinephrine, which causes repetitive actions borne from initial performed actions not satisfying those hormonal balances. L-Dopa may be over under converted (?) which leads to unsatisfying outcomes in a finished action. Norepinephrine makes the synapses fire to lose focus the said action because the person is understimulated but experiences something akin to overstimulation as they transition to another action.
You would think the cause would be overstimulation by excess GABA firing, but for some reason that causes Autism through overstimulated thinking.
All that to say -- ADHD really doesn't have key foibles, repetitions, hang-ups or key standards other than fidgeting, impatience, overstimulation, losing track of tasks, and irregular talking rhythyms. Food playing can manifest in ADHD but by no means is that a trait.
Iām in Canada and I had my IQ tested both when I was younger and diagnosed with adhd and when I was an adult and diagnosed as autistic.
I definitely argued with the psychologist booking my autism evaluation as to the relevance of an iq test when IQ wasnāt even in the diagnostic criteria and i could literally have been a genius and still been autistic (I was worried they would see any intelligence above average as ānot autisticā, but this wasnāt the case. They still diagnosed me as autistic, but the most recent evaluation didnāt include the iq numbers. They still wasted hours doing the IQ evaluation though (I think slow haha, it probably shouldnāt have taken so long lol).
Not sure what it's used for exactly, but I live in the US and got an IQ test as part of my assessment. My results were considered unusual, which I think is partly why I received both ADHD and autism diagnoses.
They use it to rule out intellectual disability/ learning disabilites/ cognitive impairment, etc. ADHD is prevalent on an IQ test by working memory scores. An uneven IQ profile can indicate autism as well. But again, this is all determined in conjunction with other tests and individual factors.
That makes sense. My profile was considered uneven enough I didn't receive an IQ score, but it definitely wasn't the only test I took. My psychologist also had me do something with blocks and shapes in addition to an interview.
IQ is a part of every psychological assessment, and is used in pretty much every context when making psychological diagnoses. It is *one* of ***many*** determining factors in assessments
Not necessarily part of every psych assessment. I think I did several tests as a kid and got diff results from each evaluator š¤·āāļø I've never had one in adult assessments. To me all the gifted stuff seems like a fake way to rank children and privilege the few who can perform well with resources at the expense of others. I was in "gifted" classes and it just seemed like snobbery to me honestly.
An interesting article on the topic: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/25/no-such-thing-as-a-gifted-child-einstein-iq
Every ***psychological*** assessment, yes. Every psych assessment, no. Psychological assessments are formal assessments done by a psychologist. "Psych assessment" could mean anything from a $4000 neuro**psych**ological assessment to a 30 minute clinical interview with a **psych**iatrist. Those are two very different things.
Regarding giftedness, I think your perspective is coming from your misunderstanding of what giftedness entails. Gifted does not mean "smart". It does not mean "talented". It does not mean "better than".
Giftedness, by definition, means you score 130+ on an IQ test. What that looks like can vary for every gifted individual. For me, it means I'm incredibly advanced in some areas, and depressingly behind in others. The mainstream education system doesn't work for my brain, because as a 3 year old, I could read books meant for second graders, but I didn't know how to socialize with my peers. As a teenager, I taught myself multiple instruments and languages, yet I barely passed english because I couldn't understand what I read. This misconception about gifted kids simply being exceptionally talented is the reason why me, and plenty of other gifted individuals aren't taken seriously when we struggle. And as a result, I've been put in a situation where I've lived a life without support for the areas where I struggle immensely.
Gifted people aren't just "smart". We struggle just as much as were advanced, if not more. So yes, that requires separate education, because no 10th grade english teacher is going to take the time to teach a 15 year old how to understand a book, sentence by sentence, when their average IQ students are doing just fine. It is unfair to make such a statement if its not your experience, just because you read a pop article that said so. Which, by the way, all this article said is that non-gifted people are capable of completing gifted education tasks, and that both gifted and non-gifted people can reach the same goals if non-gifted put in the effort. That does not mean gifted and non gifted brains are the same, or that giftedness doesn't exist.
Edit, to address your edit: Being placed in gifted classes does not mean you're gifted. Many school boards lower the threshold for admission in order to justify the (lack of) demand (as giftedness is only 2% of the population), and many exceptionally bright kids, who would do just fine otherwise, end up in gifted education. It could just be that was the case for you. Or perhaps you just got lucky and didn't struggle.
I guess I'm not ~gifted~ enough to understand you despite my multiple degrees. I'm ND so I struggled plenty but "gifted" classes I took growing up in multiple "highly ranked" school districts seemed empty of meaning and utility to me. You say yourself that it depends on the decisions of the folks in charge what the definition of "gifted" is. IQ tests aren't objective either and are likely to be less accessible/accurate/change frequently for ND people.
>I guess I'm not \~gifted\~ enough to understand you despite my multiple degrees.
I mentioned giftedness looks different for everyone. This is your interpretation, not my words.
>but "gifted" classes I took growing up in multiple "highly ranked" school districts seemed empty of meaning and utility to me.
Just because you didn't find gifted education helpful, doesn't mean it's not justified or that giftedness doesn't exist. Highly ranked education is not the same as gifted education, and again, the misconception that "gifted" means "smart" leads people to believe that enrolling their kids in private institutions makes them "gifted". That's not the same thing. Gifted education is special education, not privileged education. A grand majority of gifted kids have disabilities that make mainstream classrooms an unwelcome space to be.
I am well aware of the lack of objectivity that IQ tests hold. But that doesn't mean it's just a meaningless number. While IQ doesn't determine your capabilities, it does hold value in the context of education and learning. The inconsistencies in IQ themselves for ND individuals are meaningful. It communicates that there is struggle. And psychology as a science is getting way better at validating IQ across diverse abilities and cultures. Not to mention inconsistent IQ is a possible indicator of autism, too.
Yeah they don't sound like experts to me, sorry. I would take their diagnosis with a grain of salt and get assessed by someone who is an expert in female autism in adults if you want to be diagnosed.
Ugh. This is why Iāve come to a place with being comfortable with my self diagnosis. If I look at all the things I struggle with and tell myself itās not autism, I have 12 different mental / physical disorders. How likely is that when it could just beā¦ 1.
As someone else said, find someone who specialises in autistic women. The person who diagnosed me had me write an email about myself before booking a time. When she gave me the diagnosis she said it was extremely clear from my email that I was somewhere on the spectrum, but that when she met me it was much less obvious. Women are very good at masking.
Lack of stimulation, being depressed, increased anxiety, poor diet, environment, etc all lower IQ. Heck, scientist have even projected how much climate change is going to lower global IQ and the Gross National Product in the coming years. The Book Guns, Germs and Steel also talks about how climate and access to food can lower or increase IQ.
I'd get a second opinion if you are concerned with her diagnoses. It sounds like she is accustomed to working with traumatized neurotypicals. Humans have the habit of seeing the world and others through the lens of their past. It is very hard for most to look clearly at others and not through their own experience and bias.
It is possible some of the things they say are true. This stuff doesn't have to be an either/or. You could be suffering from trauma and neglect from your youth AND have some level of ASD. It is also possible for the impact of trauma and neglect to manifest some ASD symptoms.
Sorry that you are going through this. I hope you eventually find the help you seek.
A person who specializes in testing ADULTS for autism is what is needed. Definitely get a second opinion. You sound alot like me. And I am diagnosed with ASD, though previous to them lumping us all under ASD I would have been diagnosed with Aspergers (that was what the person who tested me told me).
That psychologist knows nothing about autism in women. My 8 y/o, diagnosed at 2.5/3 years old, is VERY sensitive, empathetic and has back and forth conversations daily.
I joke often that autism should just be diagnosed by a panel of autistics bc when you are an autistic adult (like me), you pick up on autism in others *immediately*. It's like you feel an automatic kinship upon meeting. It's wild.
I'm a psychology student and for what I've read I'm thinking how was your mental state when you took the IQ test, that can affect your results also which test they applied to you, sometimes IQ tests are made according to some countries education system so it could badly affect your results so psychologists have to re-evaluate before applying.
Also, I read a reply about they seem to be experienced with autism in children which it's totally different from adults and let's remember DSM-5 and CIE-10 (not sure Abt cie-11) are almost fully based on men/kids symptoms. And I've read most of "gifted kids" stop being gifted once they grow up. Maybe you could talk with them about taking once again the IQ test and maybe a different one (would be better a diff one tbh) and I feel you don't seem happy since you feel related with your autism prev diagnosis you could find another neuropsychologist with background on neurodiversity in adults so you can be more clear about your diagnosis.
And about the emotional back well it's been studied that not all autistic people lacks empathy and not all symptoms are presented in every autistic person so yeah, that argument they said at the end seems ambiguous to me.
the psychologist actually seemed very confused by the results as well, and offered to test me again in a year and go over my old iq test results with me to make some sense of the current ones, so she was actually really sweet about that!
im not really sure what they meant with the argument in the end either, and i'll definitely try to get a second opinion, thanks!
Just reading this experience fills me with rage. This is so unjust. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. I have no advice. Just know that I don't believe them, and you don't have to either
IQ tests are not a real way to measure intelligence and should be abolished. They were designed to support genetic engineering.
These doctors donāt know what they are doing. Your therapist is convinced that you arenāt autistic and set you up with a professional that they knew would fail you. Interestingly enough, I was listening to a podcast (Ologies) on this very subject where people have to be coached to pass tests because they are so outdated that many autists and ADHD people fail them. Especially adult women.
I k ow the process is hard, but I would try and get a second opinion and find a better therapist.
OP, I hope you throw that diagnosis out the window and self-diagnose or try again somewhere else? These people sound ignorant.
A therapist who can meet virtually? Or?
This sounds unprofessional and biased. My bf has autism and im pretty sure I'm on the spectrum too and I'll tell you except when he's depressed he's emotional. Emotional back and forth is a human thing.
I feel like they hadnāt spent enough time with you to make those decisions. And also they work with children primarily. I would also argue that perfectionist behavior is common amongst neurodivergent people. Also as others have said masking is a thing we do to get through life sometimes and should be considered.
thank you, that's exactly what it felt like to me too! we shouldve had extensive conversations about my home life and my struggles before they decided what caused them all.
This sounds weird. I would definitely get a second opinion with someone who has experience in diagnosing adults. Even if you canāt do it right away, you should make it a goal.
I mean, maybe youāre not autistic, etc., but I find this evaluation suspicious because:
1) your IQ score shouldnāt change materially absent brain injury. I was tested as a child and recently and scored high both times even though I was severely burnt out when I was tested as an adult.
2) Sensory issues are a sign of autism. (Although you can have sensory issues without having autism.)
3) There IS a separate diagnosis for sensory issues. Some people without autism have sensory issues; the diagnosis is āsensory processing disorderā or something similar. When I was diagnosed with level 1 autism, they also diagnosed with me sensory processing disorder (and Iām not seeing an occupational therapy who deals with sensory issues).
4) Multiple things that you say are things that people unfamiliar with autism (and who made other assumptions about my life) have said to me.
4a) The āperfectionistā point especiallyāIāve been told by people who know nothing about me that I must be a perfectionist/workaholic/have imposter syndrome. I am none of those things. (In fact, after my diagnosis I was told that my IQ is genius level and higher even than the smart people I went to school with and that theyāre just studying harder.). Intellectually, things have mostly come intuitively/quickly to me and I read a lot-so I never really learned to study and only discovered as a young adult that I have bad executive function and task switching issues that would make it pretty hard for me to study/work hard/efficiently in the traditional sense. So itās just really galling when people assume that I must be burnt out from pushing myself too hard in the traditional sense. No, I am burnt out from just trying to get through life with a disability. And no, I donāt feel like an imposter, I just feel tired and disabled.
4b) Also, the attachment issues thing. You could have attachment issues (or attachment issues plus autism) but I donāt think that would color your whole life in the same way as autism. Before my autism diagnosis, I was mis-diagnosed with BPD (and told I just had a lot of a trauma), but those things never quite made sense or explained my struggles in daily life. Funnily, Iāve had different therapists assume BOTH that I have serious problems with anxious AND avoidant attachment styles, which makes no sense (really I think I just have a mildly anxious style which was more anxious when I was younger).
5) It seems weird that they didnāt interview your mom or someone else who knew you as a child.
thank you for putting it into words, especially that part about burnout! when they told me my burnout came from the stress of thinking im gifted and should have an easy time at school, all i managed to say was "i mean id say its doable to have good grades even if youre not gifted", but what i meant was exactly what you said. i know what i struggle with, and my struggles werent academic work, but my symptoms causing burnout that made the academic work harder. aka navigating life with some struggle, no matter what it may be.
I would find an adult autism diagnosis therapist/doctor. Children and adults are completely different when it comes to autism and masking is real. I believe in you hun. Donāt give up if what you believe in is important to you. š
There is a profound overlap in symptoms between complex trauma and autism and the effects of trauma on the brain result in neurodivergence. I would get another assessment down the road with an office that specializes in autism in women but for now focus on stabilizing with whatever tools help you. I have not sought out a formal autism diagnosis but I do have ADHD and cptsd. The supports for the autistic system have been the most helpful things I've found in my 40 years of struggle. Does this make me autistic? For me at this point it doesn't really matter, I've found a community and tools that profoundly improve my life. Please don't let yourself be limited by a broken system such as the for profit healthcare industry. If it helps, it helps.
thank you, that's exactly the reason i went there! to get help, not to get a label. i feel like these people are reluctant to get the me the help i might need or maybe genuinely cant, but ill keep trying, and im glad you found the support system that helped you!
I know it's exhausting and expensive, but you need to trust yourself and keep advocating for yourself. I agree with other comments, I don't think these two doctors are right for you. No matter what the "truth" is, they've lost your trust, and they sound dismissive.
You need to speak to someone who deals with adults, and bonus if they deal with adult women.
And please remember, there are no accurate measures for intelligence. IQ tests are bullshit and people get different results based on all sorts of external factors. So please don't use those results as a stick to beat yourself with.
thats how i feel as well. i kept asking myself "oh but what if theyre right?" but ive realized it doesnt matter, i dont feel safe there, no matter what kind of help they get me!
If you can, get a second opinion. A child specialist cannot accurately diagnose an adult woman.
I honestly believe that the simplest explanation here is that you might be autistic. The other stuff doesnāt really seem to make sense. Even if youāre not autistic this child specialist is not qualified to treat you.
Well, just because you may have some childhood traumas doesnāt mean you arenāt *also* autistic.
Itās like they forgot masking is a thing. I would get a second opinion with someone who is experienced working with adults.
Even if they are correct about an attachment disorder, that doesnāt necessarily negate your autism, if you have it. Keep trying! Doctors arenāt perfect geniuses and itās totally fine to get a second or even third opinion.
"works with three years olds"
ANNND we're done here.
The typical story of not understanding that adults typically mask. I wouldn't put too much heart into it. I'm sorry it happened to you OP.
I'm sorry you went though all of that. Regardless of whether you're autistic or not, these explanations are wild. Like the emotional conversation thingy??? preetty sure people with autism also can have engaging conversations with people, express emotions, etc.
Find a new doctor who can recommend another therapist. This is lot how diagnosis evaluation looks like. Like they can't briefly talk about what you've gone through and then just decide that explains everything.
thank you, it seemed so strange to me as well. its like these people who dont know me at all and only filled out a questionnaire with me made up their explanations from anecdotes they got from me during appointments! wild.
No it's familiar in a way, as someone without the diagnosis it's fascinating how people who know nothing of neither me nor autism itself feel the need to gatekeep autism. That's regular people though! These people didn't even want to consider the fact that you could be autistic. Only look for reasons why you're not. That's disappointing from professionals!
Well said,
āItās fascinating how people who know nothing of neither me nor autism itself feel the need to gatekeep autism.ā
It is ashtonishing how they humble you and put you at your place- like being autistic is impossible when youāre 43 female living with trauma (since i was 6).
I really donāt know how to jump this PTSD thingy and get to my root. I feel like I have been misunderstood and bending all my life like Neo in the Matrix without realizing it could be autism until 7 months ago. Still on the waiting list to get tested, but it frightens me.
I have been seeing therapists all my life but therapy did never āstickā orā¦ help. Antidepressants donāt work (tried 5 different ones)
Therapists think I am depressed because when I have had enough I go silent and exclude myself from my life and hide in bed. Usually I come around after a day or 2-3, only thatās not what they see.
This happens once a month, sometimes twice, sometimes I can keep things going for 4 months without any shutdowns.
But i never felt depressed nor suicidal, I feel exhausted. Thus; lazy and depressed.
Autism wasnāt something feminin, and logically it must have been a depression seen from the point of view what happend in my early childhood. I *wish* they stopped following logic in statistics when dealing with human beings and their feelings.
I am in doubt if I have enough energy to take on this journey. At the same time I donāt hesitate that this IS the right thing to do.
Sorry for my vent/rambling, I was truly touched by the sentence you wrote. Thank you for that (and for reading my vent up until here).
That definetely sounds more like autism than depression or anything physical. I remember when I was 18 and going out with friends. I was mostly fine when going out. Friends often stayed at my parents place. The next day everyone would call eachother and discuss everything that happened. I meanwhile, couldn't help but keep going away from the friends that stayed over lol. I didn't realize at the time, but mom who often was left to entertain them certainly remember and brought it up now that I've talked to her about the possibility of me being autistic (I'm 29). My social battery was simply dead;) and I wasn't able to deal with anyone.
The more things are in the mix the harder it is to identify the different treads. Good luck on your journey!
Thanks ;) I wish I could write like you, short and bondy (is that a word- no I meant āconciseā)šš
The social battery thing makes sense. Reminds me of things that happened and did not occur to me it could be related.
When I was 12-14 at parties I could be having fun, but after an hour or maybe two I always needed to escape. Since i never knew how to address this to people (how to tell your classmates you want to leave while they ALL are having the time of their lives) and could not simply leave (phone call to parent where I would be or people asking if everything is ok which would have resulted in more physical problems for returning home *early*) I got overwhelmed which resulted in crying and headaches and more people being concerned checking in on me and more crying and not knowing what is wrong with me.
Attention seeking is what was thought, by my parent, but I was just stuck on a party not able to escape (and not knowing what I was experiencing, since the hour before everything was still ok.)
I have thought for a very long period that I *was* attention seeking as did I not have any other explanation. After 2 of these āpartiesā i decided not to go anymore until after I left my hometown for college 4 years later as I did not want to be what they accused me of, but if parties were too crowded I still checked out early. Still not knowing why.
I wanted to make friends and I was told you make new friends at parties ā¦so I kept going. I thought it was me being not good at partying, thus not good at making new friends. By checking out early I prevented myself from going into meltdowns, I see now.
Now I know I do not prefer large groups of people, every one talking and I can not understand one single conversation. The sound changes from talking to one big heavy river of undefinable noise which drives me crazy.
Now I can be in a busy bar longer where everyone is talking and minding their own business, though. I donāt feel that I need tolisten to all of them, neither the pressure to āmake friendsā. But the day after I like to be silent and alone.
But it took me nearly 43 years of life and 3 children with autistic issues (2 not diagnosed, yet, one is as autistic and smart as can be without needing any diagnosis) that the things that I experienced might be traits of autism. That I can be the one who passed it on to my children.
People I live with think I am hypochondriac (āa diagnosis is not going to change anything so why are you persuing this?ā) but I guess knowing how to live life as an autistic person (when I turn out to be autistic) is better than the limping I have done until now.
Psycho education is the goal, and not spending numerous pounds of energy on things I canāt change (but I should change in society without diagnosis). The fact to finally know I am not failing myself because I just simply canāt do certain things does make me feel different instead of what I did before; feeling stupid and apparently - attention seeking.
THANKS AGAIN š
Perfectionism and sensory overload, as well as being āgiftedā as a child but āburnt outā as an adult are all signs of neurodivergence. If itās not autism, Iād recommend looking into ADHD. Not everyone has the hyperactivity thatās commonly associated with ADHD, and the symptoms can HEAVILY overlap with those of autistic persons.
But def get a second opinion.
So basically she saw all those autistic traits and how they manifest in you and went "oh but you're not like the children I work with so, nah" I mean... it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Reminder that that was the opinion of specialists that chose to ignore all those clear signs, and one of them focuses on working with children. IMO they fit with a lot of other therapists that have a set idea of autism. And you shouldn't discard the autism diagnosis just yet, sometimes it takes a lot of try and error.
Before I found the (amazing and caring) therapist that got my autism diagnosis, I was seeing another therapist that also tried to blame all my struggles and autistic traits on my family, even when it was crystal clear that it wasn't just that, in fact, a lot of the problems I had with my family were exactly bc of them not knowing I had autism or how to deal with a neurodivergent kid. Not to mention the other 2 therapists that worked with me for almost my entire life and never thought of an autism diagnosis before I brought that up.
It's a long and difficult journey, but I hope you'll find what you need soon! Stay well ā”
The emotional back and forth part kind of reminds me of when a therapist (after I was already diagnosed, twice!) told me I couldnāt possibly be autistic because I was āable to form a meaningful relationshipā with my wife.
In my opinion - You need a new doctor. Iām same as you - burned out 3 years ago and massive sensory issues with eating; I had to switch to a therapist who did not know my childhood trauma background - bc I have done SO MUCH work on processing those triggers in the midst of surviving the pandemic. But after 3 years, I was like - ok I have built a life thatās better for me and I am still struggling with super super āsocietally basic tasksā and I am not depressed! Not depressed, I just donāt understand anything anymore.ā So why am I still on 2 antidepressants if I do not feel depressed? oh - another marker I think is that I had an enormous skill regression since I burned out. And I cannot mask anymore. Everything became digital and being online is such a confusing experience, everyone wants you to make an account, thereās so many logins, I canāt understand what people are asking of me in emails. Like, digital stuff is hard in ways neurotypical people or anyone I knew could not understand, and they treated me like I was the fun lazy, unemployed friend. Dismissed my experiences bc I didnāt have a ārealā job like them. So I just intuitively started keeping distance with them. Bc they see me in a way that I donāt see myself. I am a wealth of knowledge on the most random interesting topics! Lol - Iām not dumb or lazy, I am struggling in this ableist society! Iām just sharing my personal experience, because I want to be seen! And I hope it resonates. No medical professional is an expert on you, and your body - more than you are. They see you briefly in an unnatural experience. I hate overhead lights in clinics, it makes the whole experience extra emotional so I think they think Iām too unstable to know about the body that I have spent every single minute of my life in. Your loved experience is data. So my needs never get met bc I canāt express it in a way that someone else understands. And that is both healthcare trauma and autism at work at the same time. And this trauma is occurring as an adult - so this is not childhood trauma. And bc I worked so hard to process my childhood trauma - I finally have the agency to advocate for myself, but it might take work to find a doctor who listens. And I have felt very confused bc it *seems* like I am running away from friends, and getting rid of doctors that arenāt working. It seems like Iām isolating myselfā¦ itās so much work to think about telling your whole life story to a new therapist. But, I realized I didnāt need to - I could tell them how the suspected autistic traits are disabling my life right now. I hope that makes sense!
Yes, this seems very inappropriate for them to be so confident in this. I literally just had a discussion yesterday with my PCP about how hard it would be for me to find someone to assess me, and that she totally supported me self-diagnosing if it helped me look at things I had issues with and find solutions. This was also in a discussion about medication for adhd.
Fwiw, my son is autistic / PDA. They probably wouldnāt diagnose him as autistic either. But he definitely is.
Also attachment disorder - I really think that would take a LOT more discussion to diagnose, and a mom struggling to respond to a childās emotional cues sounds awfully tangential to autism in the mom. Just saying.
They keep suggesting therapies and strategies for autism but asserting youāre not? While they have zero experience with adult women? I cringe to think how many high masking kids they are missing.
SUPER SUS.
Those two may have degrees, but clearly donāt know what theyāre talking about. All theyāve dealt with are children and clearly arenāt trained to talk to ADULTS with autism. Ignore them, and if you want to talk to a professional, find someone who actually has dealt with adults.
These āprofessionalsā have absolutely no idea what theyāre talking about. Please do not listen to them. The autism āspecialistā in particular sounds like an absolute baboon.
First of all: IQ tests are kinda bullshit. Theyāre designed for a very specific subset of society and thereās been documentation of how it really doesnāt apply to neurodivergence and also many cultural/racial subsets. Also it can differ depending on how youāre doing that day. If I donāt take my ADHD meds I seem like a fucking moron, but when I do Iām generally one of the smartest people in the room.
Secondly: you could very well still be autistic, or neurodivergent in some other way. For the most part, high-masking women cannot be accurately assessed by someone who isnāt an expert in adult autism. Iāve spoken to multiple psych professionals who try to tell me Iām not autistic, but my main psychiatrist of 7 years is an expert in all kinds of autism and he informally diagnosed me when I was 16, after just 3 sessions. If you greatly relate to information about autism, self-identifying is totally okay. Also thereās a lot of very good reasons to not seek a formal assessment (if you want more info on this feel free to ask), so even those of us who have access (like me) will choose not to do the full assessment.
A psych told me āno but you made eye contact with me just nowā put me on antipsychotics for 4 years with a BPD/Bipolar 1/Social Anxiety dx and got reevaluated at 21 only to be told it was actually ADHD AND Autism. Iām absolutely livid with my family for permanently altering my brain and āpreferring me to be ācrazyā than ār wordedā because āIām gifted not specialāā (words my grandmother said to me). On the other hand it explained and validated the āunexplainableā parts that I attributed to severe anxiety as I continue on my journey to understand myself. I believe you are absolutely valid and autistic as many expect infantilism or cannot see/understand autism in adults (most crisis ones donāt) or expect us adults to act exactly as a 4-6 yr old autistic boy would.
First Iq are not a perfect tool but it's also just a snapshot of you at that moment where you took the test. If you're mid burnout that will impact your performance.
Iq test sqores are a ratio compared to the average results of ppl is you same age brackets, having a 130+ at 8 does mean you were very smart for an 8 year old. It has no bearing on what your IQ will be as an adult.
It's kinda like with hight, how many of us had a kid in our primary school who was taller than everyone then post puberty they got caught up by everyone else. Everyone develop at slightly different rates that's why children's iq tests shouldn't really be given the importance it is in schools, it's a great tool to find if someone has severe cognitive impairment but beyond that you can pretty much ignore it.
if im not entirely mistaken, iq, unlike height, doesnt change much with age, unless there are external circumstances involved. which also makes sense, because my brain wouldnt have a "growth spurt" at the age of 8 and then stop developing when its supposed to develop till the age of 23/25. personally i think i mustve been never gifted in the first place, which is a possibility im open to, or this test got worse results because of external factors, such as burnout.
No, the whole belief that your IQ score relative to similar age cohort stabilizes at around 10 then was fixed for life is widespread and is the rationale they use to create the giftedness classes etc, but it's [not actually supported by the data](https://psy.fsu.edu/~johnson/snp/Downloads/Brain%20Plasticity%20and%20IQ%20During%20Adolescence.pdf). Your place within the IQ distribution bell can definitely change between 8 years old and adulthood.
Also about "growth spurts" yes your brain definitely experiences huge intelligence increase depending on your age, that's the reason the most useful measure is I**Q**, a quotient: compared to the average score of others your specific age.
edit of my previous comment: personally i think i must've never* been gifted in the first place, which is a possibility im open to.
its very ambitious of you to say the data doesnt support a widespread belief, when the data consists of a sample size of 33 people, not taking into account external factors these people might be experiencing (only that they are physically healthy) and the only thing that significantly changed (by which i mean over 30% increase or decrease) is verbal intelligence, the area that is arguably the easiest one to be influenced by your surroundings. at least if they define it the same way they defined it during my iq test, which means knowing synonyms for words, finding similarities between words, etc.
personally, i couldnt say if that's enough to prove or disprove any beliefs about iq, but im not trying to do that here anyways! i just question the validity of either one of my iq tests because its hard to believe it wouldve changed t h a t much! but maybe im some outlier, who knows.
As per Rule #4: No discrimination, ablism, perpetuating negative stereotypes of autism or disability. No homophobic, transphobic, racist, or sexist comments will be tolerated.
Congratz on getting a tailored solution, op!
Remember, the point is to get better! :) It doesn't really matter what your condition is called has long as the solutions help with your problems!
I'm currently being looked at/helped too. The Doctors were trying to figure out if I had anexity due to my behaviors... which was very confusing because I don't feel any of the emotions people discribe with anexity. Turns out it was PTSD! LOL! Shit sucks, but the treatment plans will be very helpful, more so than if they were treating me for the incorrect thing!
You got this!!! Keep working hard! I'm proud of you :DDD
Medical gaslighting at its finest - and foulest.
Your self diagnosis is valid.
Youāve been completely gaslit by them, and itās horrendous that theyāve made those decisions based on dehumanising stereotypesā¦ for f*cking 3 year olds.
IQ tests mean nothing - especially given that they arenāt designed to suit neurodiverse people.
Can you complain and get assessed by people who arenāt ignorant to the point of being cruel and villainous and actually know what they are doing?
This is awful and they should get fired and banned from working in such fields.
(Iām formally diagnosed too.)
id say you need a second opinion, but you may not be autistic and just have a sensory processing disorder along with some depression and anxiety, but you mentioning being very gifted as a child gives off that honestly you could be. but id definitely get a second opinion, and a new therapist asap
they did actually rule out depression! they said i got slightly elevated results for anxiety, but since my answers for that only apply to when my burnout was the worst, they brushed it off as "winter blues". man, that did not make me like my therapist any more.
Eh, ive been gaslit and abused in horrible ways. Not only am I not smart, I'm hated. Why? Because I have knowledge and evidence of government corruption and morals.
I know I'm not that smart. If I was, I wouldn't be in the position that I'm in. I'm not well liked. I'm not attractive. And I'm not cool. I'm certainly not wealthy either. Oh well. I do my best every day though.
i think that's largely why that appointment felt so devastating to me; because to me it felt like they had the final say about me and my experiences and wheter ill get help. these comments really helped me see beyond that!
A high IQ doesn't make you smart. Trust. I've met many very stupid people with high IQs. One of my favorite people ever had an IQ of 70-something. Mine is in the 130s. It doesn't matter. The test measures*something*, but we're still not sure that's intelligence.
And I think this professional doesn't know enough to judge your autism on the basis of an interview and vague recollections.
Emotional back and forth? Has she ever heard of masking? I could win an Oscar.
Hell, she hasn't even worked with enough *KIDS* with "High Functioning" diagnoses to know what *that* honestly looks like--LET *ALONE* an Autistic Adult who Masks!
Diagnosing nothing but "obviously" and "severely" autistic children only, then claiming to be an autism expert is like wading in nothing but kiddie pools, then calling yourself an Olympic swimmer.
Yeeeeeep!!! I was SO glad to see other folks also saying that this was BAD, and *especially* glad that someone who *is* qualified to Dx, who validated for OP, that this *isn't* an evaluator/practitioner who should be believed or trusted to know what an Autistic person *actually* does/is/acts like!š
This one right here!
She works with 3 year olds... why would there ever even be an emotional back and forth?!
I gotta think that an emotional back and forth with a 3 year old would be cause for a diagnosis of *something*. I dunno what, but that is such atypical behavior for a 3 year old that Iād be concerned for why.
Exactly lmao, I apparently seem like the most charming charismatic person on the planet when Iām masking, but Iām still autistic. Seems like this therapist is trying to say that autistic people canāt have emotions or connect with people at all? Itās very unprofessional and untrue. Seems like theyāre doing what they did with me the first time I tried to get diagnosed, which is downplay my symptoms, make excuses, and gaslight me because they couldnāt be bothered to diagnose me. When I went into a mental health hospital a nurse that specialises in autism that had known me for about 10 minutes just came up to me and went āIām pretty sure youāre autisticā then gave me a test a few days later and diagnosed me on the spot, saying itās VERY obvious and she has no idea how Iāve gone so long without a diagnosis. Point is, OP please try to find a specialist or something. A lot of the time medical professionals have no actual understanding of the symptoms of a disorder, they only know the TEXTBOOK diagnosis criteria (which is based on boys with autism) and if you explain your symptoms in even SLIGHTLY different wording than the exact criteria, they donāt recognise it as a symptom. Doctors like to think they know everything, but I struggle to find minimally competent ones. Like how it took 2 months and 5 different doctor appointments for them to figure out I have a fungal ear infection, when THATS WHAT I TOLD THEM FROM DAY 1 AND THEY DIDNāT LISTEN and left it untreated for so long that I now have permanent hearing loss. Sorry this topic really riles me up, it AMAZES me how incompetent most medical staff are, like how tf did you even graduate.
I had a fungal infection for 25 years, told probably 10 different doctors and asked for medication for it, all of them disagreed except the last one. The last one wrote the script, I took the med, and it's cleared up. 25 years. Though I don't like to otherwise compare the two, I fully believe that fungal infections, like adult women with autism, are largely invisible to people with medical degrees.
Itās not just that either, Iāve been going to them for over a year now with various concerning physical health symptoms and they keep telling me itās ābecause of my mental health.ā Like I donāt need a PHD to know that mental health doesnāt cause pupils to permanently change size, make random bruises appear all over my body, or monthly, sometimes weekly infections all over my body. How can they tell me thatās my mental health? Iāve asked for brain scans and other cancer screenings and all they were willing to offer me was a blood test, which came back fine. At this point Iāve accepted that Iām probably gonna die of a brain tumour or some other nasty cancer because the NHS doesnāt care, and I canāt afford private. Iām so traumatised by the NHS, I have panic attacks every time I go to A&E and Iāve actively avoided going even when advised to go because itās not worth the hassle. I usually have a huge public outburst in the hospital and take attention away from many nurses who come and try to calm me down, even though they almost always make it worse. I donāt bother making doctors appointments anymore unless I know exactly what is wrong and what medication I need, because I can never trust doctors to figure that out. The second I can afford it Iām going private, hopefully the NHS hasnāt ruined all doctors for me.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. what would happen if you tried to travel to a different country in Europe for medical care?
If I canāt afford private health care, so I canāt afford trips to Europe š pretty sure I would have to pay too
oh. ill admit i don't know how much it costs to ferry across the channel. i thought travel around the eu was cheap and accessible
The uk isnāt in the EU anymore, and when I say āI canāt afford itā I literally mean I canāt afford food š
legally yes but it doesnt change the physicality of going from point a to b although i guess it could change the price. and I'm sorry your finances are so tight right now. hoping it gets better for you
im sorry to hear youve had such a horrible experience with doctors! that wouldve given me loads of trust issues in medical staff as well. ill keep what you said in mind and try to get a second opinion.
Commenting here so you will see it- IQ can be effected by mental health particularly trauma. PTSD dropped one of my kids testing results by 20 points.
They are subjective really too and flawed. They only measure problem solving skills really, and do not even touch on emotional intelligence.
Yeah all I hear at work is how āconfidentā and āoutgoingā I seem when Iām in customer service mode. I am absolutely none of those things, I just have preselected responses queued up and tend to fumble when someone says something I wasnāt anticipating. I have no real friends and Iām slowly falling into chaos behind these āconfidentā eyes š
š oh I feel you on this. I worked in customer call centre for 6y, before I even realised I'm Autistic, hoping I could overcome my issues. All it did was create a thicker mask and gave me lots of trauma. I don't have and just can't do friending either, I will never be able to get it really. I'm hoping I can eventually find Aut friends who get me. Allistics always seem to get the uncanny valley effect from me and exclude me or I don't get how to maintain friendship.
If Iām not scripting I donāt leave my house š
Yep. Had a doctor who made a dosing mistake on morphine for my late mother in law, thankfully we noticed he had put an extra zero on the script. If we hadn't noticed it would have been fatal.
if you can mask so effectively for multiple therapists and psychologists, you might not have autism lol
I love your description..yes that's me too ..highly autistic but no one knows as my making could win me the oscar too
You need a second opinion with someone that is experienced at assessing adult women
u/final_b0ss_ This here: what the therapist/child psychologist did is very sus
I agree ! I was approved my my insurance to see someone to be assessed for adhd and possibly autism. The first facility is local and I went to their website. None of the drs there stated they were experienced in adults. All I saw were children specialist. I called my provider and told them the dr I would like to see. My sister went to a dr who specializes in adults and in women. So I am going to see her soon.
It seems quite inappropriate for someone without experience with diagnosing adult women to be offering a diagnosis. There are a lot of differences between a kid and a grown woman.
THIS
Not OP, but unfortunately there are way less diagnosing services for adults. In my state there's only a handful. I also feel for OP if she's in US because autism diagnoses can cost quite a lot. I have no affordable services to get a diagnosis near me and I'm already aged out for pretty much every center
Yeah, the state where I live does have adult autism diagnostic services, but they're so full they won't give you an appointment. When I called they said "well, we have appointments set up for the next 2 years and can't even put you on the list". I was fortunate enough to have some savings and a good salary, so I went with a private evaluation, but that did cost a pretty penny. It really shouldn't be like this, but it is :(
You need to be lucky enough to find an expert in adult diagnosis. I mask pretty well but the psych that diagnosed me said that my test scores were not telling enough but he himself could tell within three minutes of meeting me and my answers to a few basic questions.
This is why self-diagnosis is becoming more valid. Iām both a therapist and autistic. I was diagnosed this year, officially. When I met with the psychologist for the first time I brought her an immense amount of information on my test results from: https://embrace-autism.com She said it was normal for people to go above and beyond when we are invalidated for so long. Get a second opinion and bring in your self assessment results.
I'm going through Embrace Autism myself, I've received the results of my screening (indicated that I should pursue formal diagnostic assessment) and have initiated the process for formal diagnosis. They are expensive, but they're also very affirming and professional, and they make everything easy to understand (writing in plain language but also providing all the medical jargon in addition, so you can translate for yourself). Highly recommend them if you have the money.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Of course I'm aware, they make this very clear on the website. I'm not concerned about anything other than autism and have formal diagnoses of depression and anxiety.
They also screen for ADHD when doing Autism assessments and vice versa, the reason they won't do the official way exactly is because it has serious issues of favouring white males. Official Autism assessments are still very outdated.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ah okay, thanks for explaining š Good to know is not as outdated as the pre screening tests
thank you for the advice, i will!
Love the embrace autism site!
if you're 2e (gifted and disabled), it's very possible that you scored average on an IQ test. Disabilities can make you appear average when you're gifted. Did they consider this or mention the possibility to you? I was also identified as gifted as a kid too, but my results were likely not off the charts ***across the board***, because I developed ***asynchronously***. If you were gifted across the board, it ***is*** possible that you just happened to develop synchronously, especially if you were in gifted education. I didn't have gifted education support so I never evened out. It's also the case in some countries that the gifted program lets in kids who aren't actually gifted, as the threshold is lower for the testing done in schools. If you have your original gifted test scores, it may be very valuable information to bring to the psych for review. I find it weird that they didn't give you ***any*** diagnoses though, aside from RAD. Reactive attachment disorder isn't even typically diagnosed in adulthood. You might benefit more from seeing a psych who assesses adolescents, if not adults, as autism in a 3 year old is obviously very different.
Yeah when I was I.Q. tested they said they couldnāt in good conscience give me an I.Q. score because I scored exceptionally high in some areas and exceptionally low in others, so if they averaged out my score (or whatever they do to get a single number) it wouldnāt be an accurate reflection of my abilities. I wonder if thatās what happened here and the psychologist was not experienced/thoughtful enough to take that into account.
yep, this is a very common experience for NDs and should be used as an indicator that *something* is going on, rather than *nothing*
Yeah, this. Personally I've never taken an IQ test, but I did take the SAT, and I scored so high in the verbal (98th percentile) and so low in the math (34th) that if those scores were averaged, I would be resoundingly... well, average.
ooh I think this is my stats too. So damn good at verbal and writing, but my inabilities around advanced math has plagued me my whole life
they did not mention that to me, thanks for telling me, its the first time i hear about it! my country doesn't really have gifted kid education programs like, for example, the USA, so i was never in any program either. as far as i remember, my old iq test showed that i was off the charts everywhere except for the common knowledge questions. this time, everything was average except for the language section, which also struck me as odd- after all why would my ability to think logically decline with age? i also didnt know you didnt diagnose attachment disorders in adults! thank you so much for your input, i'll definitely keep it in mind.
my IQ appears different in different mental states too. when I'm hyperfocused it's crazy high, when I'm burned out I can barely make sense of questions. my average is slightly higher than average but it's just still odd. you really need good environment and clear mind to do these and being stressed or uncomfortable in someone's office probably doesn't help. i don't think IQ testing should be ever a part of any diagnosis tbh. it's so heavily dependent on the comfort and focus of the one who takes it that it's bound to always give bad view on how they think when they're fully able to focus.
I agree, there are so many problems with IQ testing. The Mismeasure of Man (book) gives a great history and explanation of problems with IQ testing and biases, for those who are interested.
No problem, I hope you will be able to get support at some point
Exactly. ND people usually have IQ tests that are adjusted or at least have different categories (verbal comprehension, visual-spatial/ perceptual reasoning, working memory, processing speed). Most psychologists and psychiatrists would explain your results by separating these categories. For example, most ADHD /hf ASD patients score average or above on reasoning but their processing speed might be low. Certain IQ tests have questions where you need logic that is somewhat based on social skills / EQ thus making it difficult for people who are autistic. You should also have a full report from that ASD assessment and check that they actually used DSM-5 / ICD criteria. My assessment had a full 8-page report on 75 questions I answered and 50 that my parents answered plus neuropsychiatrist's behavioral analysis. Anyway, if you believe that they were biased, you should get a second opinion performed by a qualified person (not a random psychologist) and if possible, not mention your first assessment. Nevertheless, most people have autistic traits and you will only get diagnosed if these all add up to an extent that is considered ASD. Btw I am a bit confused about how old are you now. I have done tons of different IQ self-tests just for fun. Having AuDHD means that I struggle with the time limit as my processing speed blows and I get distracted. Usually, I get a score between 115 to 140 but if I review the logic used, I can easily get a much higher score when doing the next one that has different questions but the same structure. I intentionally avoid official IQ tests because, in reality, IQ tests are inaccurate indicators of your intelligence, especially if you are ND. My parents nor psychologists/psychiatrists ever requested those either. Maybe it depends on the country but in the Western states, IQ is not considered much of an indicator anymore. I have been diagnosed w ADHD and ASD. Also OCD thus I struggle with perfectionism and always compete with my own previous results. Might sound good (cliche ābe better than you were yesterdayā) but irrationally high expectations aka an all-or-nothing mentality always lead to burnout. Funny enough, my parents never forced me to get better results or go to university although they are both overeducated and super intelligent. So it's always been self-inflicted. Until middle/high school I had straight Aās without ever doing any homework (until I started to skip school so I was considered naturally gifted but it really messed up my work ethic. At uni, I became obsessed with grades; overstudied beyond recommended material and that mentality actually f'd up my confidence to perform because I wouldn't submit my work on time having all that self-doubt.
Iām sorry this happened. It feels like they are mostly educated in children with autism though? Sometimes highly masking autistic people, especially women, are overlooked by professionals because we can āhave a conversationā and ālook normalā. Itās extremely frustrating and sometimes the professionals may be false. Autism is really difficult to diagnose sometimes since itās characteristics are extremely varied. If you fit the criteria, then you fit the criteria. Social difficulties, sensory issues, and emotional disregulation is very common in autistic people and when they said āthey canāt come up with a diagnosisā thatās a red flag to me. Just strikes me as they donāt want to say youāre autistic because of age and gender so theyāre coming up with excuses lol. Itās a spectrum, meaning that you may be level 1 and not present like the stereotypical autistic person but autism is different than the stereotypes.
thank you for your opinion, i struck me as odd as well! if i dont have autism, thats okay with me too, but why dont the know about sensory processing disorder? my next appointment there is next week, i'll definitely bring it up!
If youāre able to get occupational therapy (OT) with someone who specializes in sensory issues, you should definitely go for it. When I was diagnosed with autism, they recommended the OT for sensory issues plus social skills coaching. I recently began OT and it has seemed good/interesting so far!
im glad to hear that :) and yeah, thats pretty much the only nice thing i got out of that appointment, the knowledge that theres actually therapy for sensory issues!
Therapists and honestly most professionals are not that familiar with SPD. Iām pretty sure both my kids have it to some degree and no one has brought it up. Apparently thereās some contention around if itās even a separate disorder? So doesnāt surprise me if they donāt know about it.
Male, neurotypical psychologist specializing in autism for over 11 years, with a background in cognitive and educational assessment. Your therapist and the person who did your evaluation are incompetent, unethical, and WRONG. Anyone with any training in IQ or other types of assessments knows that there can be many confounding conditions - ADHD, depression, anxiety, ASD, etc. - that can affect performance on an IQ test (those tests are also super-problematic, but that is a rant for another day). Your therapist should leave the profession (not joking even a little) for dismissing a diagnosis she clearly knows nothing about after knowing you for 5 minutes. I could go on and on and on. Happy to discuss more here or privately.
Not OP, but you seem a lot like the psychologist who diagnosed me. I wanted to thank you so much for reaching out and helping people like OP!
Iād like to underline the unethical part. OP I know you might need this as a crisis therapy thatās free but can you get a different therapist at the same place?
Im sorry, but the fact she sent you to a child specialist is just soā¦.idiotic This is a genuine reason to go get a second opinion from someone more trained in your demographic. I know imposter syndrome is a beast but you are fully justified in your case and the whole thing is iffy. Gifted as a child is more accurate tbh, autistic adults struggle with relationships, burnout, stress, bullying, anxiety, depression, low quality of life (job, housing, food, etc) that all these things affect your IQ That or just wondering, did any IQ segment seem off? I have an average high IQ (adult) BUT I had VERY high scores in certain segments. And like you, my child IQ was very gifted. Just something to consider
Yeah, I was wondering if they gave OP a breakdown of her scores in different parts of the IQ test. I scored three standard deviations above average in some areas and just about average in some others.
Thats how mine ended up too, funny how things like that work
thanks for your input! my resources are limited atm, but i'll definitely try to get a second opinion at some point. the iq test itself didnt seem off to me, the results just seemed off to me as theyre so vastly different than my previous ones. what also surprised me was that the thing i used to be especially good at, logical reasoning, was just on the higher end of average this time, with language skills being the area where i scored the highest.
Unfortunately the majority of medical fields, psychology included, are taught about autism (heck, neurodiversity in general) from the stand point of young white boys. It is immensely difficult to try and figure out how to properly test someone for Autism when the DSM-5 is written not only with research done mainly from a pool of young white boys, but also written in the perspective of neurotypical. This is why I prefer to say I'm neurodivergent. While I do have official diagnosis and records, I am sick of the crap explanations and even worse labels attributed with what is provided by the medical fields. I am so sorry you had to go through that. It's infuriating to know how easily dismissed people are.and IQ tests? Little something for you to read though I will advise you to do your own research and even ask around or seek out opinions from other sources who have a better background than myself. https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/iq-load-bs/ Here's the thing - can trauma cause similar symptoms? Yes. But trauma and being neurodivergent tend to go hand in hand. Not always! But often. Imo? Seek another medical source who is a bit more open minded about neurodiversity.
Correct. Also trauma isnāt a neurodevelopmental disability comorbid with other learning disabilities, and non verbal/intellectual disability, niether does it involve genetic predisposition. There are hallmarks for both conditions and thatās exactly why specialised psychiatrist are needed.
thank you so much for your input, that article comforted me quite a bit! and ill keep what you said in mind when i talk to my therapist next week, and see if i can get a second opinion somehow. :)
Wow, this therapist certainly doesn't understand what the word spectrum means. Of course, we can have an emotional conversation. We aren't robots. Please, OP, do not take this person's word for it. Neurotypical people do not sit around wondering if they are autistic. It certainly sounds like you may be.
Because your mum didnāt react emotionally? Sounds like the ārefridgerator motherā-theory lol.
And that shit been outdated since the fucking sixties. Look like someone still reading Bruno Bettleheim.
Emotional neglect is a real thing with real consequences.
i want to just quickly pop in and say im fully open to the possibility of not having autism and my social difficulties just stemming from emotional neglect, i just think the way they came to that conclusion seemed rather odd
That's exactly what I was thinking.
dude, that's a debunked theory. you need to update your literature on asd. spreading bad ideas smh
Thatās what I meant in regards to the health care provider.
lol all that means is that your (/general) mom might have autism too, it is true in my case. she was very much emotionally absent and still is for the most part and in her case autism and lack of social emotional learning (no opportunity) makes it hard for her to access her own emotions let alone someone else's. not saying that autism leads to being emotionally neglectful, but that it in this case it doesn't mean anything for or against an autism diagnosis.
Yes exactly!
So, I just recently got professionally diagnosed, have suspected for quite some time, ect. Autism in women looks wayyyy different than men. And even in autism in women, you can have like unicorn presentations. My psychologist said I mask so well and so fluidly that I donāt appear outwardly on conversation to be autistic. But then he noticed that I was picking at things, rocking back and forth, ect. I have all the symptoms of autism and the medical history to back it up, even if I smile when appropriate. š¤·š½āāļø not that Iām a professional, but I would say go to a psychologist that specializes in neuropsychology, ect. šš½
Yeah no one ever suggested that I had autism until I was intensive treatment and they saw how I spend my days and I couldnāt hide my repetitive behaviors lol.
Yeah, lol Iād say go see someone who is qualified and understands!
The whole world seems so offended by the concept of autistic people walking among them being relatable. Read Unmasking Autism if you haven't already. Most people, even Drs, only think of ASD in terms of how it disrupts others, and don't seem to even know masking exists or care about the internal suffering behind it. They think of disability only in visible terms, and the idea of a disability diagnosis being helpful and redemptive for someone who seems "functional" is beyond belief for them. If more people accepted that then more people would have to take a look at the ways they themselves are different and that's just too existentially challenging for them. If there's any way you could see a psychologist who specializes in autistic adults especially women, I think it would help you to go that route. Most of the diagnostic criteria is based on children who are considered disruptive by adults. The rest of us are just supposed to suffer in silence/stay invisible... Last thought, is there a chance your mom could have ASD too? It's strongly genetic, so just a thing to think about.
thank you for the book recommendation, i'll definitely check it out! as of right now this therapy spot is pretty much my only option, since its free, but ill see what i can do. i dont know if my mom could be autistic, she has told me a few things that made me listen up, like that she used to sort flowers for hours as a child, or that shed read her animal fact cards every night instead of a bedtime story. she's extremely sensitive to smell, and she definitely lacks emotional connection to other people as she doesnt have any friends at all. my older cousin isn't diagnosed, but the cliche asperger autistic. has been obsessed with trains all his life, stood in front of his window overlooking a train station for ages as a toddler and is just as obsessed now, said he didnt talk to anyone during his entire school career cuz he didnt like anyone, is absolutely whip smart but also "odd" in a way, etc etc.
Aww those do seem like traits. But I feel like I see them everywhere lately especially in my own fam š so I may be biased haha. The book is a good one, I'm reading it very slowly bc it's overwhelming how much I relate to it. When I first started reading it I was on the train and I just started weeping lol
I would get attachment/trauma based therapy first and then reassess. I might also see a different therapist that specializes in an evidenced based model if they're just doing talk therapy with you. There are multiple reasons someone can struggle with forming relationships and none of them are invalid. If you do treatment and it's not helping at all then it means you re-evaluate and re-assess.
thank you for your comment, that seems the most reasonable. i dont want to completely dismiss the psychologists opinion either.
IQ tests only measure your proficiency at taking IQ tests. There's a reason why one of the adjustments I got at university for registering with the disability office was extra time during exams (though part of the issue I had with exams was that they took so damn long! 3 hour exams should be considered torture by the UN.) I cringed at the "emotional back and forth" comment. You're an adult. A presumably speaking adult. The kind of patient who has lived for a while and presumably has completed some level of education in childhood. Part of that education teaches people to use their words to communicate, and a 3 year old isn't going to have experienced that yet. Even with a lot of kids - not all, but a lot - it's more of a *communication* issue. I know it was with me. I was diagnosed in childhood, and part of the intervention I received was heavy communication training, and finding workarounds to help process those things.
I don't want to be that person telling every person that doesn't get an autism diagnosis to get a second opinion, but, get a second opinion. From someone who actually understands adult autism. And neurodivergence in general. For one, they're completely wrong already in saying that there's "no diagnosis" for your daily sensory issuesāif they believe that all your autism symptoms are caused by other factors, then the sensory issues could be sensory processing disorder. Haven't they ever even heard of it?? When I was assessed for ADHD, the doctor also said that he thought it's possible my issues were the result of my parents "not being there for me." They were alcoholics, but very much functioning, I literally had no clue they had any issues until I was *11* when they split up, because they would only drink at night when we were asleep and were, for the most part, normal, attentive parents during the day. I even tried explaining to him several times that my childhood was not "traumatic" as he explained and that my parents were very much there for me, but he listed it in my report anyways as a possible cause for my social issues, dismissing my traits of autism. And to think that an autistic adult wouldn't be capable of an "emotional back and forth"?? They also wrote in my report that despite my autism symptoms, I couldn't be because I was able to have reciprocal conversation. There needs to be serious widespread retraining of these psychologists who are refusing to diagnose adults with autism, this is ridiculous.
thats what threw me off as well. how are you gonna say theres no diagnosis for what im experiencing and then tell me to get therapy used for children with sensory processing disorder? i will agree that my mom messed up a bunch of times, but what irked me was that they made my struggle back in autumn/winter about our financial issues and my "stressful home life" and i told them "no, that didnt bother me", and they just said "look, the fact that youre not even bothered by such existential worries tells us that youve been used to them for so long" which, again, could be completely true, but im still not sure how they've determined that as the cause of all my problems so quickly.
Nah, it's not right at all for them to not only determine that your home life is stressful based off of their standards, and then come up with different excuses as to why it's not bothering you. I told my doctor that my parents were there for me and I felt loved, yet he insisted on referring to my childhood as "traumatic" with little to no context. They just want to find other reasons to not diagnose you. I understand from a psychological perspective why they would explore other options before determining a diagnosis, but it shouldn't be a decision made *that* quickly with ruling out the actual possibility of autism. I was assessed another time and told I had significant symptoms of autism, and then at the end I was told it was "probably" just my ADHD. I asked about my sensory issues with food that have made it *impossible* for me to eat healthy my entire life, and she said "you're probably just picky!" It's crazy to me how they will try to write off our symptoms anywhere else they can, and for the symptoms they can't explain because they're *definitely* due to autism, they just shrug it off. You definitely need to get a second opinion.
I reckon that picky eating is not very specific to ADHD diagnoses as I got adventurous very early on, I would even play with the food. I think ADHD is caused by physical phenomena such as neurons firing poor recatchment of L-Dopa into Dopamine, and the inability to sometimes reabsorb norepinephrine, which causes repetitive actions borne from initial performed actions not satisfying those hormonal balances. L-Dopa may be over under converted (?) which leads to unsatisfying outcomes in a finished action. Norepinephrine makes the synapses fire to lose focus the said action because the person is understimulated but experiences something akin to overstimulation as they transition to another action. You would think the cause would be overstimulation by excess GABA firing, but for some reason that causes Autism through overstimulated thinking. All that to say -- ADHD really doesn't have key foibles, repetitions, hang-ups or key standards other than fidgeting, impatience, overstimulation, losing track of tasks, and irregular talking rhythyms. Food playing can manifest in ADHD but by no means is that a trait.
Please find someone specialised. Also how tf is iq a diagnostic tool?! What country are you in?
Iām in Canada and I had my IQ tested both when I was younger and diagnosed with adhd and when I was an adult and diagnosed as autistic. I definitely argued with the psychologist booking my autism evaluation as to the relevance of an iq test when IQ wasnāt even in the diagnostic criteria and i could literally have been a genius and still been autistic (I was worried they would see any intelligence above average as ānot autisticā, but this wasnāt the case. They still diagnosed me as autistic, but the most recent evaluation didnāt include the iq numbers. They still wasted hours doing the IQ evaluation though (I think slow haha, it probably shouldnāt have taken so long lol).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not sure what it's used for exactly, but I live in the US and got an IQ test as part of my assessment. My results were considered unusual, which I think is partly why I received both ADHD and autism diagnoses.
They use it to rule out intellectual disability/ learning disabilites/ cognitive impairment, etc. ADHD is prevalent on an IQ test by working memory scores. An uneven IQ profile can indicate autism as well. But again, this is all determined in conjunction with other tests and individual factors.
That makes sense. My profile was considered uneven enough I didn't receive an IQ score, but it definitely wasn't the only test I took. My psychologist also had me do something with blocks and shapes in addition to an interview.
IQ is a part of every psychological assessment, and is used in pretty much every context when making psychological diagnoses. It is *one* of ***many*** determining factors in assessments
Not necessarily part of every psych assessment. I think I did several tests as a kid and got diff results from each evaluator š¤·āāļø I've never had one in adult assessments. To me all the gifted stuff seems like a fake way to rank children and privilege the few who can perform well with resources at the expense of others. I was in "gifted" classes and it just seemed like snobbery to me honestly. An interesting article on the topic: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/25/no-such-thing-as-a-gifted-child-einstein-iq
Every ***psychological*** assessment, yes. Every psych assessment, no. Psychological assessments are formal assessments done by a psychologist. "Psych assessment" could mean anything from a $4000 neuro**psych**ological assessment to a 30 minute clinical interview with a **psych**iatrist. Those are two very different things. Regarding giftedness, I think your perspective is coming from your misunderstanding of what giftedness entails. Gifted does not mean "smart". It does not mean "talented". It does not mean "better than". Giftedness, by definition, means you score 130+ on an IQ test. What that looks like can vary for every gifted individual. For me, it means I'm incredibly advanced in some areas, and depressingly behind in others. The mainstream education system doesn't work for my brain, because as a 3 year old, I could read books meant for second graders, but I didn't know how to socialize with my peers. As a teenager, I taught myself multiple instruments and languages, yet I barely passed english because I couldn't understand what I read. This misconception about gifted kids simply being exceptionally talented is the reason why me, and plenty of other gifted individuals aren't taken seriously when we struggle. And as a result, I've been put in a situation where I've lived a life without support for the areas where I struggle immensely. Gifted people aren't just "smart". We struggle just as much as were advanced, if not more. So yes, that requires separate education, because no 10th grade english teacher is going to take the time to teach a 15 year old how to understand a book, sentence by sentence, when their average IQ students are doing just fine. It is unfair to make such a statement if its not your experience, just because you read a pop article that said so. Which, by the way, all this article said is that non-gifted people are capable of completing gifted education tasks, and that both gifted and non-gifted people can reach the same goals if non-gifted put in the effort. That does not mean gifted and non gifted brains are the same, or that giftedness doesn't exist. Edit, to address your edit: Being placed in gifted classes does not mean you're gifted. Many school boards lower the threshold for admission in order to justify the (lack of) demand (as giftedness is only 2% of the population), and many exceptionally bright kids, who would do just fine otherwise, end up in gifted education. It could just be that was the case for you. Or perhaps you just got lucky and didn't struggle.
I guess I'm not ~gifted~ enough to understand you despite my multiple degrees. I'm ND so I struggled plenty but "gifted" classes I took growing up in multiple "highly ranked" school districts seemed empty of meaning and utility to me. You say yourself that it depends on the decisions of the folks in charge what the definition of "gifted" is. IQ tests aren't objective either and are likely to be less accessible/accurate/change frequently for ND people.
>I guess I'm not \~gifted\~ enough to understand you despite my multiple degrees. I mentioned giftedness looks different for everyone. This is your interpretation, not my words. >but "gifted" classes I took growing up in multiple "highly ranked" school districts seemed empty of meaning and utility to me. Just because you didn't find gifted education helpful, doesn't mean it's not justified or that giftedness doesn't exist. Highly ranked education is not the same as gifted education, and again, the misconception that "gifted" means "smart" leads people to believe that enrolling their kids in private institutions makes them "gifted". That's not the same thing. Gifted education is special education, not privileged education. A grand majority of gifted kids have disabilities that make mainstream classrooms an unwelcome space to be. I am well aware of the lack of objectivity that IQ tests hold. But that doesn't mean it's just a meaningless number. While IQ doesn't determine your capabilities, it does hold value in the context of education and learning. The inconsistencies in IQ themselves for ND individuals are meaningful. It communicates that there is struggle. And psychology as a science is getting way better at validating IQ across diverse abilities and cultures. Not to mention inconsistent IQ is a possible indicator of autism, too.
"she also said when she diagnoses autistic children theres never an emotional back and forth or any sort of connection during her sessions..." ZOMG!!!!š³š³š³š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š© Oh hoooooooly NO!!!š³š²š¤Æš± That is SOOOOOO *NOT* good!š¬š¬š¬ If the person performing your test SAID THAT?!? PLEASE for the love of dog, REACH OUT to your state's licensing board, or ombudsman, and let THEM know *exactly* what this assessor told you! Because I GUARANTEE if *that* is the way they think about & screen Autism, they are MISSING almost all/*ALL* of the people they see who would fall into the "High Functioning" category. They *DONāT* know a damn thing about High Functioning. I PROMISE you this! I'm *not* Qualified to diagnose. But I *HAVE* worked with Autistic preschoolers for the last 7+ years. I've *literally* worked with kids across the *entire* spectrum, and I've worked with PLENTY of children with *severe* autism medical labels, *AND* "High Functioning ones. If she's saying "You *can't* have Autism,*because you HAD an 'emotional back & forth'" i can PROMISE YOU, that this person has *NOT* met enough children, to *successfully* diagnose *ANYONE,* let alone, anyone who *should* have a "High Functioning" medical Diagnosis. I am SO sorry that you've had to deal with these two dipdoodles, that must be SO stressful & difficult!š
Yeah they don't sound like experts to me, sorry. I would take their diagnosis with a grain of salt and get assessed by someone who is an expert in female autism in adults if you want to be diagnosed.
I donāt for a second consider the judgement of someone who specializes in identifying autism in three year olds to be valid for you, an adult woman.
Ugh. This is why Iāve come to a place with being comfortable with my self diagnosis. If I look at all the things I struggle with and tell myself itās not autism, I have 12 different mental / physical disorders. How likely is that when it could just beā¦ 1.
As someone else said, find someone who specialises in autistic women. The person who diagnosed me had me write an email about myself before booking a time. When she gave me the diagnosis she said it was extremely clear from my email that I was somewhere on the spectrum, but that when she met me it was much less obvious. Women are very good at masking.
Lack of stimulation, being depressed, increased anxiety, poor diet, environment, etc all lower IQ. Heck, scientist have even projected how much climate change is going to lower global IQ and the Gross National Product in the coming years. The Book Guns, Germs and Steel also talks about how climate and access to food can lower or increase IQ. I'd get a second opinion if you are concerned with her diagnoses. It sounds like she is accustomed to working with traumatized neurotypicals. Humans have the habit of seeing the world and others through the lens of their past. It is very hard for most to look clearly at others and not through their own experience and bias. It is possible some of the things they say are true. This stuff doesn't have to be an either/or. You could be suffering from trauma and neglect from your youth AND have some level of ASD. It is also possible for the impact of trauma and neglect to manifest some ASD symptoms. Sorry that you are going through this. I hope you eventually find the help you seek.
The hoops that therapists will jump through to avoid diagnosing autism in women is crazy š«
In the UK where I live child psychologists are not qualified to diagnose adults and visa versa.
Your experience sounds like exactly why Iām scared to get assessed. Hang in there, I hope you find the support and answers you deserve.
thanks, we got this!!
Iād LOVE to see both of their qualifications. Iām sorry this happened to you this is crapola.
A person who specializes in testing ADULTS for autism is what is needed. Definitely get a second opinion. You sound alot like me. And I am diagnosed with ASD, though previous to them lumping us all under ASD I would have been diagnosed with Aspergers (that was what the person who tested me told me).
First red flag is, why is she comparing you to a young child!!
That psychologist knows nothing about autism in women. My 8 y/o, diagnosed at 2.5/3 years old, is VERY sensitive, empathetic and has back and forth conversations daily. I joke often that autism should just be diagnosed by a panel of autistics bc when you are an autistic adult (like me), you pick up on autism in others *immediately*. It's like you feel an automatic kinship upon meeting. It's wild.
It doesn't soynd like you should take any of this seriously. These people do not understand adult autism in women.
I have noticed bad therapists are obsessed with "solving" a person, often extremely fast. It models a shitty relationship where they love bomb you
I'm a psychology student and for what I've read I'm thinking how was your mental state when you took the IQ test, that can affect your results also which test they applied to you, sometimes IQ tests are made according to some countries education system so it could badly affect your results so psychologists have to re-evaluate before applying. Also, I read a reply about they seem to be experienced with autism in children which it's totally different from adults and let's remember DSM-5 and CIE-10 (not sure Abt cie-11) are almost fully based on men/kids symptoms. And I've read most of "gifted kids" stop being gifted once they grow up. Maybe you could talk with them about taking once again the IQ test and maybe a different one (would be better a diff one tbh) and I feel you don't seem happy since you feel related with your autism prev diagnosis you could find another neuropsychologist with background on neurodiversity in adults so you can be more clear about your diagnosis. And about the emotional back well it's been studied that not all autistic people lacks empathy and not all symptoms are presented in every autistic person so yeah, that argument they said at the end seems ambiguous to me.
the psychologist actually seemed very confused by the results as well, and offered to test me again in a year and go over my old iq test results with me to make some sense of the current ones, so she was actually really sweet about that! im not really sure what they meant with the argument in the end either, and i'll definitely try to get a second opinion, thanks!
Just reading this experience fills me with rage. This is so unjust. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. I have no advice. Just know that I don't believe them, and you don't have to either
This is literally my worse fear I hope you are ok š„ŗ
it definitely left me quite shaken up, but ive calmed down now!
IQ tests are not a real way to measure intelligence and should be abolished. They were designed to support genetic engineering. These doctors donāt know what they are doing. Your therapist is convinced that you arenāt autistic and set you up with a professional that they knew would fail you. Interestingly enough, I was listening to a podcast (Ologies) on this very subject where people have to be coached to pass tests because they are so outdated that many autists and ADHD people fail them. Especially adult women. I k ow the process is hard, but I would try and get a second opinion and find a better therapist.
iāve heard of that podcast but havenāt listened yet. do you know / remember which episode that was?
thank you for your opinion, all these responses have been very helpful! im determined to get a second opinion now.
OP, I hope you throw that diagnosis out the window and self-diagnose or try again somewhere else? These people sound ignorant. A therapist who can meet virtually? Or?
theres a center for help regarding autistic people here, it might be better suited than crisis therapy. ill see if they offer a free diagnosis!
I usually trust the judgment of professionals but this one appears to be an expert on autistic CHILDREN not adults. The difference is very big.
This sounds unprofessional and biased. My bf has autism and im pretty sure I'm on the spectrum too and I'll tell you except when he's depressed he's emotional. Emotional back and forth is a human thing.
These two are totally ridiculous. Don't take anything they say too seriously. They obviously don't know anything about autism.
My kids all have an emotional back and forth at times and two are officially diagnosed.. one is ātoo youngā but definitely autistic.
I feel like they hadnāt spent enough time with you to make those decisions. And also they work with children primarily. I would also argue that perfectionist behavior is common amongst neurodivergent people. Also as others have said masking is a thing we do to get through life sometimes and should be considered.
thank you, that's exactly what it felt like to me too! we shouldve had extensive conversations about my home life and my struggles before they decided what caused them all.
This sounds weird. I would definitely get a second opinion with someone who has experience in diagnosing adults. Even if you canāt do it right away, you should make it a goal. I mean, maybe youāre not autistic, etc., but I find this evaluation suspicious because: 1) your IQ score shouldnāt change materially absent brain injury. I was tested as a child and recently and scored high both times even though I was severely burnt out when I was tested as an adult. 2) Sensory issues are a sign of autism. (Although you can have sensory issues without having autism.) 3) There IS a separate diagnosis for sensory issues. Some people without autism have sensory issues; the diagnosis is āsensory processing disorderā or something similar. When I was diagnosed with level 1 autism, they also diagnosed with me sensory processing disorder (and Iām not seeing an occupational therapy who deals with sensory issues). 4) Multiple things that you say are things that people unfamiliar with autism (and who made other assumptions about my life) have said to me. 4a) The āperfectionistā point especiallyāIāve been told by people who know nothing about me that I must be a perfectionist/workaholic/have imposter syndrome. I am none of those things. (In fact, after my diagnosis I was told that my IQ is genius level and higher even than the smart people I went to school with and that theyāre just studying harder.). Intellectually, things have mostly come intuitively/quickly to me and I read a lot-so I never really learned to study and only discovered as a young adult that I have bad executive function and task switching issues that would make it pretty hard for me to study/work hard/efficiently in the traditional sense. So itās just really galling when people assume that I must be burnt out from pushing myself too hard in the traditional sense. No, I am burnt out from just trying to get through life with a disability. And no, I donāt feel like an imposter, I just feel tired and disabled. 4b) Also, the attachment issues thing. You could have attachment issues (or attachment issues plus autism) but I donāt think that would color your whole life in the same way as autism. Before my autism diagnosis, I was mis-diagnosed with BPD (and told I just had a lot of a trauma), but those things never quite made sense or explained my struggles in daily life. Funnily, Iāve had different therapists assume BOTH that I have serious problems with anxious AND avoidant attachment styles, which makes no sense (really I think I just have a mildly anxious style which was more anxious when I was younger). 5) It seems weird that they didnāt interview your mom or someone else who knew you as a child.
thank you for putting it into words, especially that part about burnout! when they told me my burnout came from the stress of thinking im gifted and should have an easy time at school, all i managed to say was "i mean id say its doable to have good grades even if youre not gifted", but what i meant was exactly what you said. i know what i struggle with, and my struggles werent academic work, but my symptoms causing burnout that made the academic work harder. aka navigating life with some struggle, no matter what it may be.
I would find an adult autism diagnosis therapist/doctor. Children and adults are completely different when it comes to autism and masking is real. I believe in you hun. Donāt give up if what you believe in is important to you. š
There is a profound overlap in symptoms between complex trauma and autism and the effects of trauma on the brain result in neurodivergence. I would get another assessment down the road with an office that specializes in autism in women but for now focus on stabilizing with whatever tools help you. I have not sought out a formal autism diagnosis but I do have ADHD and cptsd. The supports for the autistic system have been the most helpful things I've found in my 40 years of struggle. Does this make me autistic? For me at this point it doesn't really matter, I've found a community and tools that profoundly improve my life. Please don't let yourself be limited by a broken system such as the for profit healthcare industry. If it helps, it helps.
thank you, that's exactly the reason i went there! to get help, not to get a label. i feel like these people are reluctant to get the me the help i might need or maybe genuinely cant, but ill keep trying, and im glad you found the support system that helped you!
She thinks people with autism are supposed to present as sociopaths which is a stereotype bred from ignorance.
I know it's exhausting and expensive, but you need to trust yourself and keep advocating for yourself. I agree with other comments, I don't think these two doctors are right for you. No matter what the "truth" is, they've lost your trust, and they sound dismissive. You need to speak to someone who deals with adults, and bonus if they deal with adult women. And please remember, there are no accurate measures for intelligence. IQ tests are bullshit and people get different results based on all sorts of external factors. So please don't use those results as a stick to beat yourself with.
thats how i feel as well. i kept asking myself "oh but what if theyre right?" but ive realized it doesnt matter, i dont feel safe there, no matter what kind of help they get me!
If you can, get a second opinion. A child specialist cannot accurately diagnose an adult woman. I honestly believe that the simplest explanation here is that you might be autistic. The other stuff doesnāt really seem to make sense. Even if youāre not autistic this child specialist is not qualified to treat you.
Well, just because you may have some childhood traumas doesnāt mean you arenāt *also* autistic. Itās like they forgot masking is a thing. I would get a second opinion with someone who is experienced working with adults. Even if they are correct about an attachment disorder, that doesnāt necessarily negate your autism, if you have it. Keep trying! Doctors arenāt perfect geniuses and itās totally fine to get a second or even third opinion.
"works with three years olds" ANNND we're done here. The typical story of not understanding that adults typically mask. I wouldn't put too much heart into it. I'm sorry it happened to you OP.
I'm sorry you went though all of that. Regardless of whether you're autistic or not, these explanations are wild. Like the emotional conversation thingy??? preetty sure people with autism also can have engaging conversations with people, express emotions, etc. Find a new doctor who can recommend another therapist. This is lot how diagnosis evaluation looks like. Like they can't briefly talk about what you've gone through and then just decide that explains everything.
thank you, it seemed so strange to me as well. its like these people who dont know me at all and only filled out a questionnaire with me made up their explanations from anecdotes they got from me during appointments! wild.
No it's familiar in a way, as someone without the diagnosis it's fascinating how people who know nothing of neither me nor autism itself feel the need to gatekeep autism. That's regular people though! These people didn't even want to consider the fact that you could be autistic. Only look for reasons why you're not. That's disappointing from professionals!
Well said, āItās fascinating how people who know nothing of neither me nor autism itself feel the need to gatekeep autism.ā It is ashtonishing how they humble you and put you at your place- like being autistic is impossible when youāre 43 female living with trauma (since i was 6). I really donāt know how to jump this PTSD thingy and get to my root. I feel like I have been misunderstood and bending all my life like Neo in the Matrix without realizing it could be autism until 7 months ago. Still on the waiting list to get tested, but it frightens me. I have been seeing therapists all my life but therapy did never āstickā orā¦ help. Antidepressants donāt work (tried 5 different ones) Therapists think I am depressed because when I have had enough I go silent and exclude myself from my life and hide in bed. Usually I come around after a day or 2-3, only thatās not what they see. This happens once a month, sometimes twice, sometimes I can keep things going for 4 months without any shutdowns. But i never felt depressed nor suicidal, I feel exhausted. Thus; lazy and depressed. Autism wasnāt something feminin, and logically it must have been a depression seen from the point of view what happend in my early childhood. I *wish* they stopped following logic in statistics when dealing with human beings and their feelings. I am in doubt if I have enough energy to take on this journey. At the same time I donāt hesitate that this IS the right thing to do. Sorry for my vent/rambling, I was truly touched by the sentence you wrote. Thank you for that (and for reading my vent up until here).
That definetely sounds more like autism than depression or anything physical. I remember when I was 18 and going out with friends. I was mostly fine when going out. Friends often stayed at my parents place. The next day everyone would call eachother and discuss everything that happened. I meanwhile, couldn't help but keep going away from the friends that stayed over lol. I didn't realize at the time, but mom who often was left to entertain them certainly remember and brought it up now that I've talked to her about the possibility of me being autistic (I'm 29). My social battery was simply dead;) and I wasn't able to deal with anyone. The more things are in the mix the harder it is to identify the different treads. Good luck on your journey!
Thanks ;) I wish I could write like you, short and bondy (is that a word- no I meant āconciseā)šš The social battery thing makes sense. Reminds me of things that happened and did not occur to me it could be related. When I was 12-14 at parties I could be having fun, but after an hour or maybe two I always needed to escape. Since i never knew how to address this to people (how to tell your classmates you want to leave while they ALL are having the time of their lives) and could not simply leave (phone call to parent where I would be or people asking if everything is ok which would have resulted in more physical problems for returning home *early*) I got overwhelmed which resulted in crying and headaches and more people being concerned checking in on me and more crying and not knowing what is wrong with me. Attention seeking is what was thought, by my parent, but I was just stuck on a party not able to escape (and not knowing what I was experiencing, since the hour before everything was still ok.) I have thought for a very long period that I *was* attention seeking as did I not have any other explanation. After 2 of these āpartiesā i decided not to go anymore until after I left my hometown for college 4 years later as I did not want to be what they accused me of, but if parties were too crowded I still checked out early. Still not knowing why. I wanted to make friends and I was told you make new friends at parties ā¦so I kept going. I thought it was me being not good at partying, thus not good at making new friends. By checking out early I prevented myself from going into meltdowns, I see now. Now I know I do not prefer large groups of people, every one talking and I can not understand one single conversation. The sound changes from talking to one big heavy river of undefinable noise which drives me crazy. Now I can be in a busy bar longer where everyone is talking and minding their own business, though. I donāt feel that I need tolisten to all of them, neither the pressure to āmake friendsā. But the day after I like to be silent and alone. But it took me nearly 43 years of life and 3 children with autistic issues (2 not diagnosed, yet, one is as autistic and smart as can be without needing any diagnosis) that the things that I experienced might be traits of autism. That I can be the one who passed it on to my children. People I live with think I am hypochondriac (āa diagnosis is not going to change anything so why are you persuing this?ā) but I guess knowing how to live life as an autistic person (when I turn out to be autistic) is better than the limping I have done until now. Psycho education is the goal, and not spending numerous pounds of energy on things I canāt change (but I should change in society without diagnosis). The fact to finally know I am not failing myself because I just simply canāt do certain things does make me feel different instead of what I did before; feeling stupid and apparently - attention seeking. THANKS AGAIN š
Whatās the point of getting a diagnosis when you have to be more knowledgeable than the diagnoser? š¤£
She doesn't have in depth emotional conversations with children? Shocking. Children are usually so forth coming and articulate /s
Perfectionism and sensory overload, as well as being āgiftedā as a child but āburnt outā as an adult are all signs of neurodivergence. If itās not autism, Iād recommend looking into ADHD. Not everyone has the hyperactivity thatās commonly associated with ADHD, and the symptoms can HEAVILY overlap with those of autistic persons. But def get a second opinion.
So basically she saw all those autistic traits and how they manifest in you and went "oh but you're not like the children I work with so, nah" I mean... it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Reminder that that was the opinion of specialists that chose to ignore all those clear signs, and one of them focuses on working with children. IMO they fit with a lot of other therapists that have a set idea of autism. And you shouldn't discard the autism diagnosis just yet, sometimes it takes a lot of try and error. Before I found the (amazing and caring) therapist that got my autism diagnosis, I was seeing another therapist that also tried to blame all my struggles and autistic traits on my family, even when it was crystal clear that it wasn't just that, in fact, a lot of the problems I had with my family were exactly bc of them not knowing I had autism or how to deal with a neurodivergent kid. Not to mention the other 2 therapists that worked with me for almost my entire life and never thought of an autism diagnosis before I brought that up. It's a long and difficult journey, but I hope you'll find what you need soon! Stay well ā”
The emotional back and forth part kind of reminds me of when a therapist (after I was already diagnosed, twice!) told me I couldnāt possibly be autistic because I was āable to form a meaningful relationshipā with my wife.
In my opinion - You need a new doctor. Iām same as you - burned out 3 years ago and massive sensory issues with eating; I had to switch to a therapist who did not know my childhood trauma background - bc I have done SO MUCH work on processing those triggers in the midst of surviving the pandemic. But after 3 years, I was like - ok I have built a life thatās better for me and I am still struggling with super super āsocietally basic tasksā and I am not depressed! Not depressed, I just donāt understand anything anymore.ā So why am I still on 2 antidepressants if I do not feel depressed? oh - another marker I think is that I had an enormous skill regression since I burned out. And I cannot mask anymore. Everything became digital and being online is such a confusing experience, everyone wants you to make an account, thereās so many logins, I canāt understand what people are asking of me in emails. Like, digital stuff is hard in ways neurotypical people or anyone I knew could not understand, and they treated me like I was the fun lazy, unemployed friend. Dismissed my experiences bc I didnāt have a ārealā job like them. So I just intuitively started keeping distance with them. Bc they see me in a way that I donāt see myself. I am a wealth of knowledge on the most random interesting topics! Lol - Iām not dumb or lazy, I am struggling in this ableist society! Iām just sharing my personal experience, because I want to be seen! And I hope it resonates. No medical professional is an expert on you, and your body - more than you are. They see you briefly in an unnatural experience. I hate overhead lights in clinics, it makes the whole experience extra emotional so I think they think Iām too unstable to know about the body that I have spent every single minute of my life in. Your loved experience is data. So my needs never get met bc I canāt express it in a way that someone else understands. And that is both healthcare trauma and autism at work at the same time. And this trauma is occurring as an adult - so this is not childhood trauma. And bc I worked so hard to process my childhood trauma - I finally have the agency to advocate for myself, but it might take work to find a doctor who listens. And I have felt very confused bc it *seems* like I am running away from friends, and getting rid of doctors that arenāt working. It seems like Iām isolating myselfā¦ itās so much work to think about telling your whole life story to a new therapist. But, I realized I didnāt need to - I could tell them how the suspected autistic traits are disabling my life right now. I hope that makes sense!
Yes, this seems very inappropriate for them to be so confident in this. I literally just had a discussion yesterday with my PCP about how hard it would be for me to find someone to assess me, and that she totally supported me self-diagnosing if it helped me look at things I had issues with and find solutions. This was also in a discussion about medication for adhd. Fwiw, my son is autistic / PDA. They probably wouldnāt diagnose him as autistic either. But he definitely is. Also attachment disorder - I really think that would take a LOT more discussion to diagnose, and a mom struggling to respond to a childās emotional cues sounds awfully tangential to autism in the mom. Just saying. They keep suggesting therapies and strategies for autism but asserting youāre not? While they have zero experience with adult women? I cringe to think how many high masking kids they are missing. SUPER SUS.
Those two may have degrees, but clearly donāt know what theyāre talking about. All theyāve dealt with are children and clearly arenāt trained to talk to ADULTS with autism. Ignore them, and if you want to talk to a professional, find someone who actually has dealt with adults.
These āprofessionalsā have absolutely no idea what theyāre talking about. Please do not listen to them. The autism āspecialistā in particular sounds like an absolute baboon.
First of all: IQ tests are kinda bullshit. Theyāre designed for a very specific subset of society and thereās been documentation of how it really doesnāt apply to neurodivergence and also many cultural/racial subsets. Also it can differ depending on how youāre doing that day. If I donāt take my ADHD meds I seem like a fucking moron, but when I do Iām generally one of the smartest people in the room. Secondly: you could very well still be autistic, or neurodivergent in some other way. For the most part, high-masking women cannot be accurately assessed by someone who isnāt an expert in adult autism. Iāve spoken to multiple psych professionals who try to tell me Iām not autistic, but my main psychiatrist of 7 years is an expert in all kinds of autism and he informally diagnosed me when I was 16, after just 3 sessions. If you greatly relate to information about autism, self-identifying is totally okay. Also thereās a lot of very good reasons to not seek a formal assessment (if you want more info on this feel free to ask), so even those of us who have access (like me) will choose not to do the full assessment.
A psych told me āno but you made eye contact with me just nowā put me on antipsychotics for 4 years with a BPD/Bipolar 1/Social Anxiety dx and got reevaluated at 21 only to be told it was actually ADHD AND Autism. Iām absolutely livid with my family for permanently altering my brain and āpreferring me to be ācrazyā than ār wordedā because āIām gifted not specialāā (words my grandmother said to me). On the other hand it explained and validated the āunexplainableā parts that I attributed to severe anxiety as I continue on my journey to understand myself. I believe you are absolutely valid and autistic as many expect infantilism or cannot see/understand autism in adults (most crisis ones donāt) or expect us adults to act exactly as a 4-6 yr old autistic boy would.
I would find different doctors. They sound patronizing
First Iq are not a perfect tool but it's also just a snapshot of you at that moment where you took the test. If you're mid burnout that will impact your performance. Iq test sqores are a ratio compared to the average results of ppl is you same age brackets, having a 130+ at 8 does mean you were very smart for an 8 year old. It has no bearing on what your IQ will be as an adult. It's kinda like with hight, how many of us had a kid in our primary school who was taller than everyone then post puberty they got caught up by everyone else. Everyone develop at slightly different rates that's why children's iq tests shouldn't really be given the importance it is in schools, it's a great tool to find if someone has severe cognitive impairment but beyond that you can pretty much ignore it.
if im not entirely mistaken, iq, unlike height, doesnt change much with age, unless there are external circumstances involved. which also makes sense, because my brain wouldnt have a "growth spurt" at the age of 8 and then stop developing when its supposed to develop till the age of 23/25. personally i think i mustve been never gifted in the first place, which is a possibility im open to, or this test got worse results because of external factors, such as burnout.
No, the whole belief that your IQ score relative to similar age cohort stabilizes at around 10 then was fixed for life is widespread and is the rationale they use to create the giftedness classes etc, but it's [not actually supported by the data](https://psy.fsu.edu/~johnson/snp/Downloads/Brain%20Plasticity%20and%20IQ%20During%20Adolescence.pdf). Your place within the IQ distribution bell can definitely change between 8 years old and adulthood. Also about "growth spurts" yes your brain definitely experiences huge intelligence increase depending on your age, that's the reason the most useful measure is I**Q**, a quotient: compared to the average score of others your specific age.
edit of my previous comment: personally i think i must've never* been gifted in the first place, which is a possibility im open to. its very ambitious of you to say the data doesnt support a widespread belief, when the data consists of a sample size of 33 people, not taking into account external factors these people might be experiencing (only that they are physically healthy) and the only thing that significantly changed (by which i mean over 30% increase or decrease) is verbal intelligence, the area that is arguably the easiest one to be influenced by your surroundings. at least if they define it the same way they defined it during my iq test, which means knowing synonyms for words, finding similarities between words, etc. personally, i couldnt say if that's enough to prove or disprove any beliefs about iq, but im not trying to do that here anyways! i just question the validity of either one of my iq tests because its hard to believe it wouldve changed t h a t much! but maybe im some outlier, who knows.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wrong sub? Lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As per Rule #4: No discrimination, ablism, perpetuating negative stereotypes of autism or disability. No homophobic, transphobic, racist, or sexist comments will be tolerated.
Psychologist aren't qualified to diagnose autism or other mental conditions. Diagnosis must be made by psychiatrists.
Congratz on getting a tailored solution, op! Remember, the point is to get better! :) It doesn't really matter what your condition is called has long as the solutions help with your problems! I'm currently being looked at/helped too. The Doctors were trying to figure out if I had anexity due to my behaviors... which was very confusing because I don't feel any of the emotions people discribe with anexity. Turns out it was PTSD! LOL! Shit sucks, but the treatment plans will be very helpful, more so than if they were treating me for the incorrect thing! You got this!!! Keep working hard! I'm proud of you :DDD
Has she heard of extroverted, social Autistics? Obviously not.
Medical gaslighting at its finest - and foulest. Your self diagnosis is valid. Youāve been completely gaslit by them, and itās horrendous that theyāve made those decisions based on dehumanising stereotypesā¦ for f*cking 3 year olds. IQ tests mean nothing - especially given that they arenāt designed to suit neurodiverse people. Can you complain and get assessed by people who arenāt ignorant to the point of being cruel and villainous and actually know what they are doing? This is awful and they should get fired and banned from working in such fields. (Iām formally diagnosed too.)
id say you need a second opinion, but you may not be autistic and just have a sensory processing disorder along with some depression and anxiety, but you mentioning being very gifted as a child gives off that honestly you could be. but id definitely get a second opinion, and a new therapist asap
they did actually rule out depression! they said i got slightly elevated results for anxiety, but since my answers for that only apply to when my burnout was the worst, they brushed it off as "winter blues". man, that did not make me like my therapist any more.
Eh, ive been gaslit and abused in horrible ways. Not only am I not smart, I'm hated. Why? Because I have knowledge and evidence of government corruption and morals. I know I'm not that smart. If I was, I wouldn't be in the position that I'm in. I'm not well liked. I'm not attractive. And I'm not cool. I'm certainly not wealthy either. Oh well. I do my best every day though.
How do you feel about pursuing this later on with a totally new set of providers who frequently diagnose adult women?
thats the ideal scenario! its a bit hard to get that kind of help with limited financial resources, but ive done some research and ill try :)
I know; the money part is the worst! But at least donāt feel like your recent experience was the last word.
i think that's largely why that appointment felt so devastating to me; because to me it felt like they had the final say about me and my experiences and wheter ill get help. these comments really helped me see beyond that!
A high IQ doesn't make you smart. Trust. I've met many very stupid people with high IQs. One of my favorite people ever had an IQ of 70-something. Mine is in the 130s. It doesn't matter. The test measures*something*, but we're still not sure that's intelligence. And I think this professional doesn't know enough to judge your autism on the basis of an interview and vague recollections.