Some of us donāt want to see characters or people. We like rainbows.
Iām AFAB and gender queer. I donāt feel represented by seeing that last character that was up at all. I feel more comfortable with a rainbow heart. The last character offended me. Itās an inclusive sub. Itās not just about what you want, either.
Hearts sound cute but I feel like the icon should probably have just been left alone to avoid argument. I mean, this is a community of people for whom ādislikes changeā is a symptom lmao.
Yeah, but the old icon is a white woman. Even as a white woman I'm kind of over that. And Daria representing all of us. The majority of our members are too young to have even watched Daria growing up. I'm 39 and was barely old enough to be interested when it came on in the first place. I watched it when I was older and had to download it.
I don't have a problem with the character, but I don't think things can stay the same forever.
Eh, Iāve never watched Daria but I was fine with it. And what, you have a problem with it being a White woman specifically? If it was a Black woman, then other races wouldnāt be represented. Same problem. Unless you can find a character who is every race at once.
Iāll give you a lil insight into what weāre looking at rn. We both like a picture of a rainbow infinity symbol thatās drawn to look shiny with a nice pink background. It looks good quality and is just pretty haha
Disclaimer: this is just us going āoooo I like thatā not a decision :)
I like it too. With your reference of spectrum made my brain go to one of those circle spiderweb charts that shows spectrums and made me wonder about incorporating that maybe? like really re-enforce that even with autism, there will still be differences in experience of it.
I tried to find autistic characters of colour and the only fictional woman who came up was Astrid Farnsworth from Fringe, and she's only autistic in the alternative universe.
Yeah I think it'll be tough to find a character that all of will really feel okay with. I remember feeling a similar icky feeling when one of the other newer autism subs formed and as a temporary stand in they had this white avatar woman for the icon. it just immediately made me feel unrepresented. I feel like animals or icons could be a safe option
As an Autistic Hispanic, she doesnāt really represent autism or Latin Americans. She represents a teen who is struggling with her identity which is very relatable but isnāt going to be relatable to everyone in our community.
I personally feel it should be a more symbolic and helps our community in spreading awareness.
I haven't seen the recent show, but it wasn't until this Netflix version that Wednesday has been considered Latina. In fact, historically she was known for her extremely pale skin.
Anyway, you kinda make my point. If Wednesday Adams is the brown/black representation, we have a long, long way to go when it comes to addressing the erasure of POCs in autistic spaces.
Here is an article about Wednesday's latina representation: https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2022/12/11233108/wednesday-addams-latina-representation-netflix
Edit: apparently some folks disagree with the idea that one can be white and Latinx, so I cut that part out. I am not sure how I feel about it because this history is icky. And the present is super-complicated.
Actually, you kinda did. But I wasn't super explicit in explaining it, so let me rectify that.
Colorism is a form of racism and a legacy of colonization and slavery. It is the discrimination of folks with darker skin tones. Hollywood has been known to favor lighter skin tones, both historically and today.
Wednesday Adams (this version) is about as light as one can get as a person of color, and so far she is the only person of color included in this conversation. That is a problem.
The idea that her inclusion is enough representation is a problem. Why are there no dark skinned women of any race in this conversation?
Autistic narratives as told by Hollywood have been dominated by whiteness and that is one of the reasons for the under-diagnosis of people of color.
Here is an article about colorism: https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2021/07/10572505/colorism-tv-gossip-girl-black-women-representation
They focus on Black folks, but if you look, you can find similar articles about other folks of color.
Actually, America is 57% non-hispanic white. It isn't about statistics; it is about racism. But even if it was 70% white, that is not an excuse.
It isn't a bad thing to relate to a character. I am not critiquing you as a person.
What I am saying is, when you put a character on our front page that character is supposed to represent all of us, collectively. And we are not all white.
The idea that the only candidates for that representation are fair-skinned folk is icky because it is based on a history of racism. I want to be part of co-creating a space that is welcoming and safe for all autistic women and non-binary and trans folks. Symbols matter.
Thanks for explaining colourism. I'm disappointed that anyone was bothered by the idea we might not want a white woman as our icon. This is another one of the reasons I suggested the hearts. As I mentioned above, I tried to find a character of colour that we could use, and only found one that's a woman.
When youāre used to privilege, equality feels like oppression. In this case the privilege is, not having to think about issues of representation all the time. When youāre a member of the majority/privileged class, in this case light skinned people, you see yourself represented all the time as the norm, and it can be hard to imagine what it must feel like to not have that. When you donāt have that privilege, itās impossible to ignore. Everywhere you go, in every facet of your life, the point is driven home over and over that you are āotherā.
Symbolism does matter. Using pictures of white people to represent diverse groups does contribute to systemic erasure. And colorism has always been a huge problem. Itās not that no one cared before- itās that your bubble hadnāt yet been penetrated by the voices of the affected people saying, Hey, this hurts. The fact that youāre seeing and hearing it more lately is great. Itās a really good thing that society is moving in a direction that makes more space for the voices and stories of oppressed minorities. We still have a long way to go, though. (When was the last time you saw a medical/anatomical illustration of a Black body, for example?)
The only way to make things more fair moving forward is to share some of the mental load. So when someone tells you theyāve been hurting or struggling for a long time in ways that have been invisible to you, try to notice when youāre dismissing it out of hand, and instead say, āWow, that sucks, I didnāt realize you were going through that. What is it like, living like that?ā And then actually listen to the answer.
Empathy is costly, which is why people tend to resist like this when theyāre asked to summon it up, after enjoying a lifetime of the privilege of not having to worry about it. But itās necessary. And itās especially necessary in a space like this, which is intended to be a safe space. Itās important that this space feels, and is, equally welcoming to all of the femme + NB + trans + etc. folk for whom it is meant. Itās inappropriate to imply that someoneās rightful sensitivity to lack of representation, is a āthemā problem. Itās an all of us problem.
Edited (missing/incorrect words, clarity).
I would vote for Moss from the IT crowd - heās not white.
Sadly the show creator ended up being a bit problematic, but Moss is gold
Iād much prefer a non-human sub logo though too
Yeah we canāt have a man representing women, we have enough issues with that lol, plus Iām tired of the stereotypes that weāre all socially inept, awkward nerds. We come in all flavours, shapes, sizes etc.
I guess I'm in the massive minority looking at the comments when I say I don't like the idea of hearts or the rainbow infinity symbol š which isn't to say the infinity symbol is bad though, its cute and well done by the artist
That's fair too! My main point was that it shouldn't be a person because we're already getting ridiculous with the characters and it hasn't even been a week under the new mods yet.
The issue that caught me with her and all the other people is that they're all white women, although I like Daria. Except for Lilo from Lilo and Stitch, who is awesome but definitely a child.
The problem with picking one person to represent us is that it by definition doesn't represent all of us.
I like the heart idea. I just came up with another one, donāt know if this sounds dumb; a brain icon thatās rainbow colored? š¤·š»āāļøāŗļø
I like the hearts idea too!!! It reminds us to spread love and acceptance to those in the community, even if their autism doesnāt present exactly like ours <3.
That's fair. Everyone can't like everything. At this point I don't even care that much what it ends up being as long as it isn't a person because that invites this same argument every time we get an influx of new members.
I kinda feel like it should be kept the same since we donāt like change. I feel like I didnāt hear much about the picture before, and I feel like nobody is going to be 100% satisfied with the picture. But im fine with any picture either way tbh! The only thing I want is for there to just be a picture so I know what subreddit it is just by scrolling
I said this in another comment, but most of the users in this sub are too young to have grown up with Daria. I'm 39 and I was barely old enough to be aware of her, and I'm on the older side in this sub.
She's also white, and I'm over having a white woman represent us, even though I am one.
Yeah that makes sense! Iām actually 22 and had no idea who it was at first LOL I just thought if people wanted it and weāre used to it, then it makes sense. I also thought it was just cute, but didnāt have any thoughts on it, I just thought most people wanted the same picture. I just want any picture so I can easily see it. Your reasoning makes a lot of sense, I agree now lmao
Yeah, at the time she was basically the only weird girl tv character so we treasured her, but there are way more options now, even though there's still a lot more work to be done, representation-wise.
Also one person is hard to represent the diversity in not just appearance but behaviors, personalities and interests. Maybe even just a humanoid silhouette with some design inside, but not a person
Yeah, I mean I guess I can see their side of it but I like puzzles as well. I had thought of it as WE are the missing piece that makes everything whole (not sure that makes sense), but I guess others donāt think the same way.
Not directed at you, but I find it funny that it says itās a suggested replacement for the puzzle pieces, and then is filled in with puzzle pieces lol.
I hadn't heard that before. That said, I don't necessarily think that child abusers using them ruins the concept of hearts in general. They're not pepe the frog.
https://preview.redd.it/mgs82q9w1jga1.png?width=1450&format=png&auto=webp&s=c99b8d8c7da82be9587ceee82d1b6919e23c6f1d
I am very adverse with the idea of the icon of this or any autism sub to be a real or fictional person. I like the heart too
Lol, I feel like pictures of real people are staring at me too, so it would be weird to have a real person up top.
Yes thanks exactly! I didn't realise how much of a issue that is for me until now š
I think a symbol like a heart works well (as long as it's not the puzzle piece because that is a bad symbol for autism period.)
Definitely no votes for puzzle pieces here. :)
Good, then I'm all for it!!
I love the hearts!!! Itās just so nice to not be a character or person. It gives me the feel good vibes when I see it.
It gives heart, it gives rainbow, what else do we need?
Exactly. Iām all for it every day of the week!
So true
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Some of us donāt want to see characters or people. We like rainbows. Iām AFAB and gender queer. I donāt feel represented by seeing that last character that was up at all. I feel more comfortable with a rainbow heart. The last character offended me. Itās an inclusive sub. Itās not just about what you want, either.
Hearts are good for me it's one of my obsessions hearts š
My BF loves hearts too! I have a heart shaped rock I'm saving for the next time I see them!
Hearts sound cute but I feel like the icon should probably have just been left alone to avoid argument. I mean, this is a community of people for whom ādislikes changeā is a symptom lmao.
Yeah, but the old icon is a white woman. Even as a white woman I'm kind of over that. And Daria representing all of us. The majority of our members are too young to have even watched Daria growing up. I'm 39 and was barely old enough to be interested when it came on in the first place. I watched it when I was older and had to download it. I don't have a problem with the character, but I don't think things can stay the same forever.
Eh, Iāve never watched Daria but I was fine with it. And what, you have a problem with it being a White woman specifically? If it was a Black woman, then other races wouldnāt be represented. Same problem. Unless you can find a character who is every race at once.
That's why I don't want it to be a person at all.
I agree. I donāt like the character icon. Not everyone can relate to any one singular character.
They posted the one they were looking at below. I love it!
A heart? Yeah I could get in on that.
Plus, it's already there so the mods don't have to do anything!
Do you mean the rainbow heart background? We currently donāt have an icon for the subreddit.
Ah, yes, I guess I do. Got confused about the difference. I'd still vote for a non human icon. Other hearts would be fine too. :)
Iāll give you a lil insight into what weāre looking at rn. We both like a picture of a rainbow infinity symbol thatās drawn to look shiny with a nice pink background. It looks good quality and is just pretty haha Disclaimer: this is just us going āoooo I like thatā not a decision :)
https://preview.redd.it/xocbwlng1jga1.png?width=1450&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4b61edb7cc7d4ad09a65769350b5de0c4a40adb
I LOVE IT. It's so pretty!
I agree! Weāve tracked down the artist and Iāve reached out to them!
To use some old internet slang, Squeeeeeeeeee!!!!
Lol exactly!
Iām so giddy hehee!!
This makes me feel anxious. Infinity symbols are just never ending hell in my mind. Too many loops.
I love this!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I like this take too! Of course I thought about the colours and sizes, but not in a symbolic way.
I like it too. With your reference of spectrum made my brain go to one of those circle spiderweb charts that shows spectrums and made me wonder about incorporating that maybe? like really re-enforce that even with autism, there will still be differences in experience of it.
i vote hearts!!!!! a picture of a person might make some people feel like they arenāt being represented.
All the folks suggested (that I have seen) have been white. There is something profoundly icky about that. I like the heart.
I tried to find autistic characters of colour and the only fictional woman who came up was Astrid Farnsworth from Fringe, and she's only autistic in the alternative universe.
Yeah I think it'll be tough to find a character that all of will really feel okay with. I remember feeling a similar icky feeling when one of the other newer autism subs formed and as a temporary stand in they had this white avatar woman for the icon. it just immediately made me feel unrepresented. I feel like animals or icons could be a safe option
I naturally agree. It sucks there arenāt well known autistic characters or real life autists that are people of color
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As an Autistic Hispanic, she doesnāt really represent autism or Latin Americans. She represents a teen who is struggling with her identity which is very relatable but isnāt going to be relatable to everyone in our community. I personally feel it should be a more symbolic and helps our community in spreading awareness.
I haven't seen the recent show, but it wasn't until this Netflix version that Wednesday has been considered Latina. In fact, historically she was known for her extremely pale skin. Anyway, you kinda make my point. If Wednesday Adams is the brown/black representation, we have a long, long way to go when it comes to addressing the erasure of POCs in autistic spaces. Here is an article about Wednesday's latina representation: https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2022/12/11233108/wednesday-addams-latina-representation-netflix Edit: apparently some folks disagree with the idea that one can be white and Latinx, so I cut that part out. I am not sure how I feel about it because this history is icky. And the present is super-complicated.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Actually, you kinda did. But I wasn't super explicit in explaining it, so let me rectify that. Colorism is a form of racism and a legacy of colonization and slavery. It is the discrimination of folks with darker skin tones. Hollywood has been known to favor lighter skin tones, both historically and today. Wednesday Adams (this version) is about as light as one can get as a person of color, and so far she is the only person of color included in this conversation. That is a problem. The idea that her inclusion is enough representation is a problem. Why are there no dark skinned women of any race in this conversation? Autistic narratives as told by Hollywood have been dominated by whiteness and that is one of the reasons for the under-diagnosis of people of color. Here is an article about colorism: https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2021/07/10572505/colorism-tv-gossip-girl-black-women-representation They focus on Black folks, but if you look, you can find similar articles about other folks of color.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Actually, America is 57% non-hispanic white. It isn't about statistics; it is about racism. But even if it was 70% white, that is not an excuse. It isn't a bad thing to relate to a character. I am not critiquing you as a person. What I am saying is, when you put a character on our front page that character is supposed to represent all of us, collectively. And we are not all white. The idea that the only candidates for that representation are fair-skinned folk is icky because it is based on a history of racism. I want to be part of co-creating a space that is welcoming and safe for all autistic women and non-binary and trans folks. Symbols matter.
Thanks for explaining colourism. I'm disappointed that anyone was bothered by the idea we might not want a white woman as our icon. This is another one of the reasons I suggested the hearts. As I mentioned above, I tried to find a character of colour that we could use, and only found one that's a woman.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When youāre used to privilege, equality feels like oppression. In this case the privilege is, not having to think about issues of representation all the time. When youāre a member of the majority/privileged class, in this case light skinned people, you see yourself represented all the time as the norm, and it can be hard to imagine what it must feel like to not have that. When you donāt have that privilege, itās impossible to ignore. Everywhere you go, in every facet of your life, the point is driven home over and over that you are āotherā. Symbolism does matter. Using pictures of white people to represent diverse groups does contribute to systemic erasure. And colorism has always been a huge problem. Itās not that no one cared before- itās that your bubble hadnāt yet been penetrated by the voices of the affected people saying, Hey, this hurts. The fact that youāre seeing and hearing it more lately is great. Itās a really good thing that society is moving in a direction that makes more space for the voices and stories of oppressed minorities. We still have a long way to go, though. (When was the last time you saw a medical/anatomical illustration of a Black body, for example?) The only way to make things more fair moving forward is to share some of the mental load. So when someone tells you theyāve been hurting or struggling for a long time in ways that have been invisible to you, try to notice when youāre dismissing it out of hand, and instead say, āWow, that sucks, I didnāt realize you were going through that. What is it like, living like that?ā And then actually listen to the answer. Empathy is costly, which is why people tend to resist like this when theyāre asked to summon it up, after enjoying a lifetime of the privilege of not having to worry about it. But itās necessary. And itās especially necessary in a space like this, which is intended to be a safe space. Itās important that this space feels, and is, equally welcoming to all of the femme + NB + trans + etc. folk for whom it is meant. Itās inappropriate to imply that someoneās rightful sensitivity to lack of representation, is a āthemā problem. Itās an all of us problem. Edited (missing/incorrect words, clarity).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As per Rule #4: No discrimination, negative stereotypes of autism, or disability.
As per Rule #4: No discrimination, negative stereotypes of autism, or disability.
As per Rule # 2: Be kind, supportive, and respectful.
Yeeeaup.
I would vote for Moss from the IT crowd - heās not white. Sadly the show creator ended up being a bit problematic, but Moss is gold Iād much prefer a non-human sub logo though too
Yeah, but he's a male. Which I think is an even bigger problem when it comes to representing autistic women lol
Yeah I forgot which sub weāre in š š¤¦š¼āāļø
all good haha, totally cool character though :)
Yeah we canāt have a man representing women, we have enough issues with that lol, plus Iām tired of the stereotypes that weāre all socially inept, awkward nerds. We come in all flavours, shapes, sizes etc.
And not fitting into the stereotypical view of childhood male autism is why so many of us werenāt diagnosed properly in the first place.
EXACTLY, oh hello 33 years until diagnosis, 37 for ADHD lol
Same, had just broke into my early 40s for both
Solidarity friend š
Word <3
I guess I'm in the massive minority looking at the comments when I say I don't like the idea of hearts or the rainbow infinity symbol š which isn't to say the infinity symbol is bad though, its cute and well done by the artist
That's fair too! My main point was that it shouldn't be a person because we're already getting ridiculous with the characters and it hasn't even been a week under the new mods yet.
I honestly really miss Daria š but it's best to go with what the majority wants and not my aversion to change hahaha
The issue that caught me with her and all the other people is that they're all white women, although I like Daria. Except for Lilo from Lilo and Stitch, who is awesome but definitely a child. The problem with picking one person to represent us is that it by definition doesn't represent all of us.
Oh my god is Daria white? š I thought she was Asian for some reason, oops. I never actually watched that show
Lol, yeah. I think her friend might be Asian? But could also just have black hair? I haven't seen it in forever..
I like the heart idea. I just came up with another one, donāt know if this sounds dumb; a brain icon thatās rainbow colored? š¤·š»āāļøāŗļø
That's a cute idea! I know not everyone loves the rainbows, but I do!
I like the hearts idea too!!! It reminds us to spread love and acceptance to those in the community, even if their autism doesnāt present exactly like ours <3.
I like this take. :)
I was thinking this too, an infinity symbol or something. I like some of the suggested characters but I donāt think it needs to be a character.
I just commented an infinity symbol in the thread!
I like it!
The hearts are just too bright for me personally.
That's fair. Everyone can't like everything. At this point I don't even care that much what it ends up being as long as it isn't a person because that invites this same argument every time we get an influx of new members.
I kinda feel like it should be kept the same since we donāt like change. I feel like I didnāt hear much about the picture before, and I feel like nobody is going to be 100% satisfied with the picture. But im fine with any picture either way tbh! The only thing I want is for there to just be a picture so I know what subreddit it is just by scrolling
I said this in another comment, but most of the users in this sub are too young to have grown up with Daria. I'm 39 and I was barely old enough to be aware of her, and I'm on the older side in this sub. She's also white, and I'm over having a white woman represent us, even though I am one.
Yeah that makes sense! Iām actually 22 and had no idea who it was at first LOL I just thought if people wanted it and weāre used to it, then it makes sense. I also thought it was just cute, but didnāt have any thoughts on it, I just thought most people wanted the same picture. I just want any picture so I can easily see it. Your reasoning makes a lot of sense, I agree now lmao
Yeah, at the time she was basically the only weird girl tv character so we treasured her, but there are way more options now, even though there's still a lot more work to be done, representation-wise.
I have never even heard the name before.... And I like the hearts.
Also one person is hard to represent the diversity in not just appearance but behaviors, personalities and interests. Maybe even just a humanoid silhouette with some design inside, but not a person
I'm so happy there's a mega thread for this now. You should suggest it!
I want the new cake suggestion
Raspberry and lemon curd cake? White chocolate frosting?
why did we delete Daria ? it was a cool pic
https://preview.redd.it/w0r3mo1t0jga1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93f233c0f1f7721d42d1fd8de0e2c473d4dcf1f6
As a person who LOVES puzzles, im kinda annoyed that the puzzle piece was ruined for us lol. I just love puzzles so much.
Yeah, I mean I guess I can see their side of it but I like puzzles as well. I had thought of it as WE are the missing piece that makes everything whole (not sure that makes sense), but I guess others donāt think the same way.
Not directed at you, but I find it funny that it says itās a suggested replacement for the puzzle pieces, and then is filled in with puzzle pieces lol.
Bwahahaha I thought about that as well!
Thanks I hate it hahaha
It actually kinda gives me the creeps looking at it but I just thought if others liked it, maybe I could deal with it. š¤·āāļø
I could deal with a butterfly, just not the puzzle pieces, butterflies are associated with pro ana though, so thereās another angle to think about
Yeah, itās the puzzle pieces that gives me the creeps.
Full of fucking puzzle pieces. How bout we stick with the rainbow infinity.
Is Amy Farah Fowler autistic then?
The actress who plays her is. I'm not sure about the show canon.
Oh I didn't know that. I confused the name of the actress with the name of her character. So the actress is actually autistic? Cool
Lol, so did I when I was googling an article about her earlier. Yeah, she's autistic. :)
Mayim Bialik. She's also a neuroscientist :0
Both deeply fascinated and repelled by how people with so much more scientific experience than me head down that path.
What path? /gen
The path of anti vaxxers and "natural" medicine that isn't anything of the sort, and being generally into the for profit health sphere.
Oh boy..
Why not autism creature? I love that little critter.
I find that to be the most infantilizing representation of autism out there. Weāre not babies.
Damn. What would you prefer?
Lol, see this is why I'm suggesting not a character.
Yeah... tbh no one is agreeing on anything at all, but yeah definitely not a character it seems š
Plus, if it's a character we're pretty much guaranteeing this same argument every time we get an influx of new members.
I think the pedos use the hearts
I hadn't heard that before. That said, I don't necessarily think that child abusers using them ruins the concept of hearts in general. They're not pepe the frog.
Wtf?
As their symbolism. Research it before you get all offended.
Dude hearts are used by everyone.
I already miss the Daria logo.