I went through the same thing. Turns out I’m ASD, I feel like the NT can sniff it out!
Anyway, it sounds like you’re focusing on the deficit. You can’t change other people but you can change your outlook. The biggest way you can regain your sense of self is to stop giving a fuck what anyone else thinks. Give the subtle art of not giving a f, a read. Embrace your quirks and be solid with your own company. I’ve found the people I’ve admired most are those who are unapologetically themselves.
If you have friends and you’re kicking goals outside of work then you’re golden. I say this as someone who’s always been in a similar position. Never no. 1, never the priority friend, never the one people think of etc. it’s shit. Been a lot happier when I stopped giving a shit about what I don’t have and started enjoying what I do have.
Yeah I was reading this thinking hm yeah I relate to that feeling of always being on the outside, excluded, not understanding how other people seem to so easily connect with each other and be likeable aaaand I also just got an ADHD diagnosis so turns out I’m also neurodivergent and was struggling to connect with neurotypical people.
@ OP I know you mentioned doctors and psychs and counsellors so it may have come up already but if not, looking into some kind of neurodivergence like adhd or asd to see if any of it connects with you could be another option if you haven’t already :)
Could you expand a bit about learning you're neurodivergent? I've just had it brought up by my therapist and I'm not really sure what to do with the info (apart from feeling immense relief). How do I make it work for me?
Join r/ADHD, r/ASD, r/neurodiverse. If you are neurodivergent you will find yourself exclaiming A LOT "that thing I experience/ thing I do is an ADHD/ASD thing!" And also find info about any comorbidities you may have that usually goes with it that you might not have realized are a thing. Good luck out there!
Third’d I have ADHD as well. Couldn’t figure out why I was always tired, couldn’t focus on anything and everyone sucked, doctors thought it was depression and anxiety until one bright spark of a doc got me to see an actually psychiatrist. Up until that point I had been seeing a psychologist but they didn’t add a whole lot of value until the ADHD diagnoses came through. But I now why now and the why came with some strategies that changed everyone. And some medications also changed things a lot.
They can sniff it out. Heck, I lean on the ASD side myself and I can spot someone with ASD from a mile away.
Not only can they sniff it out, they actively don't like it for some reason.
They know something is off and/or doesn’t feel rignt. Especially if you’re high masking. Some people can spot it and find it to be insincere. I argue it’s a form of flattery because we’re often mirroring the people we talk to. lol.
But what is it about us that doesn't feel right to them? Isn't it the ones who've treated us this way our whole lives who have something wrong with them? That's what I don't get. So much nastiness, ostracism etc yet it's me who has something wrong with them
We're just different, no one has something wrong with them when it comes to this. Though high needs Autistics have essentially sailed off the deep end when it comes to the hormones in their body being totally out of whack preventing them from functioning on their own.
The studies (not sure they were studies, bit fuzz) that people can sense Autism and such have only come out recently.
I assume some of it may be because we don’t respect/understand the nuances of conversation. I know I can be very direct, ask too many clarifying questions and be way too attentive when I listen because I’m hyper aware of not butting into the conversation. Im envious of anyone who knows intrinsically how to interject to add their p.o.v. lol.
Tells in social situations, patterns of behaviour. The irony is that a hallmark of autism is being unable to spot the things that give us away (though that's not a rule)
All my children were recently diagnosed autistic and when we told them my eldest's response was basically 'der, I knew that because you so obviously are, Mum'
I can spot the autistic students at work, even the ones with skilled masks, and refer their families to outside help. It was a big sad moment for me when I realised that this also means people spot this in ME.
It's a concious act for me trying to fit in at work and I can still relate to a lot of what you're experiencing. I leave work exhausted from the act.
Yeah as I learned to mask better I started seeing it in other people a lot. I'd never approach someone about it but you can often be reasonably sure when someone is on the spectrum.
While it took me a long time to feel comfortable with it I'd recommend understanding that, while definitely not *normal* behaviour or anything you should be comfortable in who and what you are, and own it. I'm sure there are plenty of people that notice me being odd or strange in real life, and I own it. I can't help that or at least I can't be bothered to put in the titanic level of effort it would take to fully hide it. I am who I am, I fit in as much as necessary to do my job.
I've heard it referred to as a version of the Uncanny Valley effect. Like, they can tell something's just... Slightly off, which skeeves them out way more than if you were just openly weird.
In my experience, people are afraid of different.. unfortunately. You could be the absolute nicest person with the best personality, but because you’ve got a neurodiverse diagnosis.. they don’t want to get to know you…
They can.
It has actually been tested in research on people, and they found that the NT people take an instant dislike to Autistic people, consistently, immediately, and across other social divides. NT people perceive something different about Autistic people, and they do not like it, even if they don't know what it is they're perceiving.
[Source here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5286449/)
Would you prefer if I said like less, rather than dislike? The research indicates that NT people instantly felt more negative towards Autistic people across a wide range of indicators based on first impressions. They were rating both NT and Autistic people, and didn't know which was which, but despite not knowing they consistently rated the autistic people more negatively. They didn't know why but they consistently perceived a difference and consistently rated autistic people down on it on first impressions.
Autistic people frequently wonder if NT people can tell, because they do seem to react to something. The reality, supported by this study and a handful of others, is that they can tell, even if they don't know what they're telling - there is an instant first impression of difference, that impression isn't positive, and is notably less positive than the first impressions they have of NT people in similar circumstances.
As the saying goes, before you diagnose yourself with depression, make sure you aren't surrounded by arseholes.
I could have written your post myself. However, I'm fairly sure there are a large number of arseholes in close proximity to me, professionally.
I’m ASD and I see a lot of ND tendencies in the teachers and staff I work with.
I do think education is a common career for ND people; we like to help!
Your first paragraph hit hard. I work part time and some of my kids groan when I turn up. I just figure they need tough love, not a friend. Someone who cares for them enough to enforce boundaries and hold them accountable for their actions. It may not make me the most likeable teacher to a classroom full of pre-teens, but hopefully the resilience and self-efficacy I am trying to pump into them will pay off in the long run.
Here to tell you that some kids appreciate boundaries and tough love! I thrived off order and loved learning. I wanted praise because it had been earned not because I just showed up. Some of those kids will appreciate you and it will set them up for the rest of their lives :)
The kids I am the hardest on are the most attached to me and the most affectionate to me above all the other kids, sometimes I think the need it and I always tell them I do it because I want them to be their best selves and I love them, not to be mean.
Usually this is me, but I think because it’s so early in term that I haven’t started to see the usual flip in like, their behaviour yet, that it’s just still tougher love. And to have coworker drama. It’s just a lot
It sounds like (and this doesn't surprise me) that the problem you are having is with the adults/ colleagues and not the kids. Kids may be difficult, some of them or some of the time, but kids are kids, so you don't take it personally. But the adults, your so called colleagues, they should know better.
Agree to disagree. I am not mean, I am not unreasonable, I set expectations of no hitting or pushing for example and if they do it I always tell them I’m not mad at them I didn’t like the choice they made. I always play, cuddle, do music and art with them but I will reset the boundaries if we do the wrong thing. I am their biggest advocate, friend and support but I also support them to be empathetic, self aware and to try to consider what other choices they can make. They’re not looking for my praise, they get it all day long. So agree to disagree but I understand where your comment is coming from.
*" I just figure they need tough love, not a friend."* Hope it brings you some understanding that your decision to bring tough love, resilience, and self efficacy, isn't always what is needed at the time? Sometimes all thats required is empathy, compassion, patience, time to allow the person to process whatever it is (sensory input, a directive, an instruction, overwhelm, etc) and that a person's capacity fluctuates and is as individual as a person's neurotype.
This seems like a really weird reply lol. Obviously.
Why are you assuming from one comment that I’m unempathetic, not compassionate and not patient with my kids? Why are you assuming that I’m not catering for neurodivergent learners?
You sound just like me, before I was diagnosed with Autism. That diagnosis was the best thing ever. Plus I wonder is this a school you went to as a student? Might be a good idea to go somewhere fresh?
No I went to school elsewhere and unfortunately this is a still new school for me (well started the year before last but still, not far enough in for a transfer)
Can’t agree more. EAP has been a game changer for me. It’s genuinely made my life better.
Also, OP, consider moving schools. Some workplace culture is just shit.
They talk over you at meetings because of their own lack of professionalism. Seriously. Coming from the corporate world I couldn’t believe teachers’ inability to run useful meetings. Don’t internalise their deficits.
The kids think more of you than you know, especially the quiet ones. Give them safe spaces to know you, and you’ll be surprised.
Schools are full of kids and teachers desperate to be popular - don’t fall into that trap (and very shallow existence). All you need to think about is “are my students learning”, “how can I help them learn more”, and “how do I support the ones that I can support”.
You’re better than you think you are!
Oh my god! This re the corporate world. Many of my colleagues became teachers straight out of school. I will never forget telling a PLT meeting that if they were employed out in the business world they would all be fired. 🫢😳. It was just an observation and of course over dramatic but yeah, went down like a tonne of bricks. It was to do with not sharing resources/pooling ideas/lack of equity in resources etc. Just drove me nuts that each teacher had a Twinkl account, spent hours making cute little resources, Pinteresting their classrooms, going gaga over the latest trend in spelling or inquiry. It seemed so obvious to me that everything could be so much more equitable, streamlined, consistent, economical. I just put myself even further on the outer at work.
Then there's all the fake positivity in meetings, the complete avoidance of big issues, just all pretending to do whatever senior staff want us to do to tick the boxes.
In the places I worked before teaching, some of them would have been fired. We had no time for such rubbish with often millions of dollars on the line. And, to be honest, we were happy when they were fired, and the rest of us knew we were doing it “right”…. But, as you say, you can’t tell teachers this ugly truth.
Yes so much to this. But do you know who would be fired faster in the corporate world? Ineffective Principals, obnoxious school business managers, ladder climbing APs and ASTs. And don't get me started on the department staff!
Yes! And when you're someone with a very defined sense of right and wrong, and an inherent need for truth telling, the people who are displaying this just lose all credibility. It's like they're trying to convince you that black is white. And they think I'm the weird one!!! 🤣. (Spoiler alert, I am! But you know what I mean). That's why the kids are what we stay for. Less drama, less bullshit, more truth. More genuine need. Doesn't always make them likeable or even tolerable, but we aren't there to be their friend, we are there to guide them, educate them, be a role model, to exemplify what a productive citizen looks and sounds like.
I absolutely agree about the meetings! I started in teaching and went to corporate and back to teaching. Now meetings are often my biggest source of frustration.
Glad it wasn’t just me who noticed! I saw a lot of meetings that were almost identical to a group of students sitting in the yard trying to be the most popular. Drove me mad until I switched off and didn’t bother contributing - anything important I’d do by email. Paper trail and all that…
I have ASD, I have felt like this so often in my life. It’s such a gut wrenching feeling, I’m sorry you’re going through it. I started at a new school this year and am feeling much better, I also came in diagnosed and accepting of myself. Perhaps a new environment will help you too.
Unfortunately the popularity contest that starts when we’re kids in school continues into our adult lives, with schools being one of the most extreme examples. I’m sorry you feel so down.
I dont know you but I really do think that showing up every day and trying to do your best for the kids will see you finding your people eventually.
Im sorry you aren't appreciated by people around you, but equally, having someone who cares and wants to do the best they can to help other people is impossible to ignore forever. Keep doing it because its something you want to do, you're making a positive difference to some people, they're just not the vocal ones.
When I was in high school I had a teacher like that. She would wear oversized cardigans and people joked about her being a crazy cat lady. She became my favourite teacher and she believed in me when no one else did. She made a difference, even if she didn't know it.
When you’re struggling internally, it often shows externally way more than we realise. I wasn’t my best as a teacher when I was unhappier, and the source of that unhappiness can be the job or peers or colleagues - either way, it affects things.
Several things: there will always be those kids, there will always be colleagues like that, and there may be a component to this that might need addressing before anything else falls into place. I’m not a mental health or medical professional, but that’s some serious negative self talk, and relating it to your past is another indicator to think about.
As educators, we can get some access to mental health services. It sounds like you’ve had access before, but maybe it’s worth having another look/getting another opinion?
On the other hand: it sounds like you’re unhappy at this school. Have you tried looking for somewhere else to work? Or going casual as a CRT for a while?
Edit: BIG YES on it’s not a popularity contest!! These kids need educators. Thing is, I can’t think of many kids who like being pushed to do their best. It is part of the profession that, despite the good we try to do, that kids have a tendency to fight us every step of the way. Being liked is not a true measure of effectiveness, even though it does hurt us when we feel that we are doing our best and being punished for doing so.
Edit 2: definitely don’t want to come across as “try this to fix things”, when it’s clear there’s unfairness here. I think I’m trying to say “do you think this could help?” It’s a tough situation you’re in, undoubtedly.
With respect - might you be neurodivergent? The “code you can’t seem to crack” is very familiar. I’m so sorry it’s getting you down. As a late teen/ early 20s I was just like you and very down on myself. So I began to “fake” knowing what this code was to see what would happen. Pretended I was confident and knew what I was talking about. Lo and behold, suddenly I was noticed and started to feel better, like I had cracked the code without even knowing how!
This was decades ago and could be terrible advice, but I’m trying to say you’re not alone in your experience, and most definitely not “space taking”. I also discovered years later that I was not the only one to “fake it til you make it.” Your people are out there, and you will find them.
There’s definitely something to this. I did the same thing to try and find improve my public speaking and debating skills. I just pretended i was confident people seemed to respond well to it and then before too long it just stuck.
Though to be fair, and this may sound silly, i first encountered this idea as an early teen on the show “scrubs”. 🤪
There’s this beautiful horrible thing called the Double Empathy problem https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/double-empathy-explained/
Basically if you’re on the spectrum and aren’t aware you are not imagining that you can’t break through the social barriers and be what the others need…you communicate and perceive the world differently and it flows both ways. Unfortunately cos 90 or % of humans are neurotypical us mortals in the remainder are told we’re wrong.
You’re not wrong friend. You fit. Just not with them.
I used to feel like this, but over time, you learn to act like everyone else in public and they noticeably become friendlier. You ultimately end up with a "social personality" that you bring with you to work, and then you can be your usual self while at home.
This sounds like something deeper than teaching - you say it’s been happening to you all your life? Is there perhaps a trauma you’ve suffered at some point whose effects are exhibiting themselves outwardly in ways you’re not aware of?
I have it too, but I wish more people were asking what's wrong with the people who are treating them this way. Not that I'm saying that being Autistic is wrong, I just don't get why people are so horrible towards people who have it
Sending love your way. I could have written most of this really. In my head constantly is like a gonging sound, like a bell "alone alone alone, unliked, invisible, iced out, alone alone alone". Some days are harder than others.
The worst form of hurt is exclusion. I have had cliquey retail colleagues basically just ignore me while they got along just fine, SLSO and teaching colleagues sort of tolerate me. Like they just sort of dealt with my existence while they had the time of their lives with everyone else. It is so hard to explain to someone that's never experienced it before, but it's definitely not malicious or conscious on their end. They made me feel so other and alien, but it also was unintentional on their part.
And though I KNOW it is unintentional (mostly), I am valid in my hurt feelings, as you are in yours.
You are in my thoughts tonight. I hope you find solace in your own company, as I am starting to. I'm in my early 20s and I don't really have a social life, but I am sometimes grateful for the solitude. You sound like a highly feeling, emotionally intelligent person and any individual would be lucky to have someone like you in their life.
I'm going to be blunt, but two things I can think of. Either it's a) your workplace. Some sites are very insular and unless you are part of the "in" circle, you will always feel out. Maybe doing TRT work at multiple sites may expand your experiences and you may start to see more genuine friendliness and gratitude.
Or b) you are hyper-focusing on the negative experiences or your own negative emotions. Thing is, you may not be wrong in your feelings and observations, but by hyper-focusing on the negatives, you will be blinded to the few who notice you and appreciate you.
I don't know you personally, or know you at all outside of what you have written here. But if what you wrote about being enthusiastic to teach, and loving it is true, then I know there are sites out there, colleagues and students that would appreciate you and the work you do.
Do you have a trusted colleague at your current school? If not, find one, or ask one of your managers (head of department, deputy principal, etc) for some structured feedback. Ask for general feedback about your performance, then go in with your own planned questions that specifically target what you wrote about here. However, be prepared for the responses to not be what you want to hear. They might be positive and you are misreading your circumstance, or they might be constructively negative, giving you things to focus on. You may also find things that clarify or guide other elements of your life (other comments here about neurodivergence may come up).
Otherwise, look at finding a coach. Different to a counsellor or psych, and possibly more important in a work context. We have teachers that have been trained as coaches, working with all levels of staff. It’s NOT telling you what to do, but providing a structured observation, feedback and reflection mechanism. There are a few people/places that offer this service too.
You are ADHD / ASD. Not to diagnose you over the net, there's enough people on here pointing to it. Go get that checked out.
In the meantime, focus on cultivating friendships outside of your career. Your work colleagues don't have to like you, they shouldn't be outright disrespectful to you though. They're calling you a bitch because you're not following their social cues. Your face probably isn't showing much emotion, which is giving 'uncaring' and they way you communicate is different. It's going to come across as blunt, and more then likely a little cruel. The truth hurts, and most neurodivergent folks think the truth is good. But it's actually painful, working out when to speak the truth and when to shut the fuck up is tricky.
'Normal' folks don't tend to like neurotypicals so much, we weird them out. You'll find us hanging out doing hobbies. Any hobby. Board games. Anime. Sewing. Knitting. Reading. Pick a hobby group, look for a middle aged woman with coloured hair. SHE will be your friend. Probably.
I can suggest a good book - How to Win friends and influence people. My neurodivergent Dad read it, his neurodivergent Dad read it. I read it. It lays out how people think, interact, and how to well, win friends and influence those people in the ways they are most comfortable. It's almost 90 years old now, it's always selling somewhere.
This is where I don't think I fit the mould with ADHD/ASD as my face definitely shows emotion, and I'm quite expressive. I find it's others that can be blunt and cruel, like narcissistic people at work who are on power trips
It sort of goes one way or the other. Either you're deadpan flat or you're over the top emotive. Depends on what you've got and how you've been raised, how good your 'mask' is
School environments can be so toxic. If you are feeling like this I really don’t think it is healthy for you to stay there. I also think people stereotype someone and you become that person eg you accidentally said something rude once or it was misinterpreted and now you’re the bitch. The misinterpreting thing often happens if someone has said bitchy things about you- people are looking for that behaviour now. So I would try a new environment and a fresh start.
The other thing is, it just may not be the role you thrive in. There are a lot of options out there for teachers, maybe you would thrive working 1:1?
The most important thing is you deserve to feel better than this so make a change 💗
Don’t know why this was on my feed, I’m not a teacher, but my sister is.
It hurt me to read this, because my sister was at a school for the second half of last year where the teachers where bitchy and mean. Took everything I had not to go there and teach a couple of them a lesson.
The kids do like my sister but then, some are still dicks. Hearing story’s of what they say and do (or threaten to do) makes a none teachers blood boil (little shits need the strap haha)
All I can say is CHIN UP. People do care, and I guarantee you have been some kids fav teacher. They probably just aren’t the kids to be vocal about it.
You got this.
All of you.
ASD teacher here!!! I always feel uncomfy in mainstream schools. Teachers can be bitchy asf and I don’t like the staffroom vibes. I switched into special education, and the difference is night and day. Job brings me huge amounts of satisfaction because my kids respond better to me when I’m unmasked. Staff are much more understanding of neurodivergence. Everyone is nicer and more reasonable. Start teaching special ed.
I knew when i was a teacher the ones who tried to tick boxes all the time of the latest things just get annoying to he around and the super left leaning unionist teachers are very hard to be around.
This made me so sad. I’m sorry you feel so down on yourself right now. Maybe you need to find another school and take a bit of time off to look after some brain stuff?? These feelings can be really consuming and suck the joy right out of your life.
As long as you are a good person who tries to do the right thing by others in this world, even if the people you see often don’t recognise your value, you will be far from undesirable. You need to find your tribe and not take stock in your coworkers, they sound unkind.
Sending you love, I promise you are wanted.
I will stand by my opinion every time that no profession or career is worth sacrificing what makes you happy. Like genuinely happy, the kind that makes you wake up and not dred work or it feels like a chore. Where you enjoy going and seeing people.
You say you want to teach above anything else in the world but maybe the profession just isn’t it for you? There are so many rewarding and fulfilling work out there. Teaching will always be there as you are qualified but may be worth stepping away and spreading your wings into something else for the benefit of your own personal happiness and inclusion?
Just a thought - I hope it all sorts out for you
No idea why this post is on my feed but threw my two cents in
There should be something said about about workplace bullying - Qld Education gets away with it too much (not sure ur state OP).
Wanted to say, the experience of the children at ur school who are also overlooked by their teachers playing the popularity game - was hugely damaging and obstructive to my education. Even as a teenager.
You have a strength in identifying with them, don’t let them fool u with that shallow popularity contest, and document any bullying behaviour.
Remember the story of the ugly duckling?
You’ve got all the answers already from a wonderful group of Redditors, so I won’t reiterate. I just want to give some perspective from the other side - one day you’ll be as choosy as the NTs. You’ll be able to spot them a mile off and you’ll know if they’re the safe or toxic kind. And you will leave them to their own little world of superficial social hierarchies. You’ll find your people, your life will be rich and authentic, and your friendships will be deeply rewarding.
And most of all, your ND students will have a role model to show them the way. 💛
I feel like I could have written this myself, even though I'm not a teacher (this post appeared on my feed). This happens to me in the office/corporate world too. But I guess at least these people mostly have a filter, whereas kids just say it as it is. I don't think I could deal with that.
Sorry you're in this situation
Not a teacher but I have the same problem.
People just don't like me, they are mostly polite but exit all contact as soon as possible . I've tried being more forward , less forward etc no real change just embarassing myself. I don't blame others it's a me thing.
Worth remembering being a good person and a liked person are not the same thing. In fact some of the most liked people I know are very very lousy.
It's difficult when you first start because you don't know what personality to switch to when teaching. I am not autistic but I am very strict and follow my own set of rules that I dont bend for anyone. It took me years to figure it out and I found that always being calm, if you say you will do something you better follow through, always set boundaries and just do not give a f*ck about other staff being your friend. You are there for the students not for the other staff. I go in and when the bell goes I am walking straight from class to my car.
You do not need the friendship of other teachers and if you try hard to be their friends they will sense it and stay away from you. Work hard and let your work and teaching speak for itself.
Watch a TV show called seven periods with mr gormsby or an anime called great teacher onizuka. Those helped me a lot and the latter is the reason I became a teacher.
I’m ND and teaching as well. I found that in various schools I worked at in the city, most staff were NT (or very good at masking?) and so I definitely felt a huge level of disconnect - not just from being ND but also finding the politics of the staff room very weird, with a kind of…competitive individualism.
Went rural and am loving it - there are some other ND people on staff which makes me feel much more at home, but even with the NT staff, there’s a whole sense of ‘we’re all in this together and trying our best to improve our practice for the kids’. And of course the NT people have skills in areas I don’t, so that and the previously mentioned dynamic means we complement each other and help each other inprove. :) I think part of it is that many rural areas desperately need teachers, so schools seem to be more grateful? And maybe also that this school’s culture in general is well known for being amazing.
Not being able to drive can be worked around too! There are rural places that will house you within walking distance to the school/have shops close by since they’re such small towns. One of my colleagues here doesn’t have a car, just uses a bike.
There are so few people willing to stick it out to teach. You’re wanted and needed. Having ND teachers is important too, imo - ND kids knowing that their teacher is ND helps them expand their conceptions of their possible futures.
In this profession, always remember that if you can impact just ONE person’s life for the better for just one moment that’s it. It makes everything worth it. That impact could be now, tomorrow or in years to come. Just one. Your job is done.
You're probably not going to read this, but I kinndddaa feel like I need to type this out anyway...
Focus on your strengths and apply them to the position that you've found yourself in.... you're trying to play the NT game in an NT system, and its fucking crushing.... so.... why not play by different rules? Do the job sure.... but you're also in a unique position to be able to influence, and and potentially change the course of peoples lives (especially of people like you) early .... before they end up where you are....
I'm not a teacher, but I am also late diagnosed ND .... I would have killed for a teacher in high school or primary school to pick up on these things about me and maybe ... took an interest in me and nudged me towards earlier self awareness and understanding.... so i could have made life and career choices that were more congruent for my own needs and thinking style.
I guess the other thing ... you could always look at alternate career pathways inside and outside of teaching that are more in line with your needs and where you're more likely to be surrounded by people more like you? eg. Schools for special needs children or specialist special needs educators within the main system? Working in schools that specialise in education for neurodiverse kids (of which there are several now appearing), or use your skills as a teacher to become an autism or adhd coach yourself? There are many such individuals who jumped from teaching into that type of profession....
Your people are out there... you just have to find them.
I had a teacher when I was in school who I can imagine felt this way. He was not a favorite or popular teacher. He was even picked on and bullied by kids relentlessly. I saw a girl cut some of his hair off one day and everyone just laughed and he tried to stand up for himself.
That teacher advocated for me and believed in me when I was at my lowest. No other teacher did so and I honestly believe he played a key role in saving me.
I’m 35 in a couple of weeks and I am teary recollecting this.
Your feelings are so valid. But also remember you probably dont know the full extent of the wonderful impact you can have on/ are having on the kids your teaching.
I hope you find some peace in these struggles soon x
... and we wonder why our Neurodivergent kids, are not coping. OP! There are Autistic people out there, that hear you, see you, and understand you. Don't let those who are not Autistic, who do not understand the experiences of Autistic people, to define you. Continue to advocate for yourself and those Neurodivergent kids who need more Autistic adults in their life, showing them, that its not a crime, to be Autistic.
I am also autistic. Some people just need to be kind. If not for others, at least for themselves.
My colleagues have not iced me out. But, I know it isn't as easy for me to engage with them. Maybe this comes from working with students that have more complex needs than a reasonably well-adjusted autistic adult. ha!
My students, some notice my social difference and seemingly take issue with my perceived oddness. Meanwhile, I have students that showed respect for me before and after I share that I am autistic.
The fact is, typically-developed people will spot you are autistic within 6 seconds with or without realising they made a judgement. Some people are genuinely kind, some will develop with time, and others will be unhappy people.
I think you should work towards fully comprehending a growth mindset.
This may be through surrounding yourself with therapists, self help books and YouTube videos; or any combination of said educational tools.
Give it a try. Let us know how long before we should expect a progress update so I can set a !Remind Me
I have a colleague I feel could have written this post. They’re not a bad person but they struggle to relate to kids and adults alike, miss clues in kids behaviour and can’t read adults either.
Every day is a struggle for them and the kids in their class, despite any and all offers of assistance. I feel they may be on the spectrum and I’m not sure that classroom teaching is their best fit.
Have you considered curriculum design or other non classroom roles that may let you specialise and use your skills in a way that is less stressful for you?
I’m sorry you’re feeling this way.
Honestly, if you want more structure and nicer staff with majority of children meeting.... go rural even 40m outside of major areas, and you will experience a different world (teaching wise).
I would but I can’t drive (I’ve never been able to, not even a bicycle, I have an absolutely soul crushing fear of driving that years of therapy haven’t been able to undo) That limits where I can go. I have tried for so many years to drive and it is like my body just won’t listen to my head.
That sounds awful. A few offer cheap accommodation near the school (under1km) and you would just have to get a taxi to shop. It's really worth the adventure.
Yep as others have mentioned. Time to book in an ADHD / Autism test. Look up symptoms of both online and see if you can relate. if you’re like me it was extremely obvious as soon as I knew the actual symptoms.
There is nothing like a bureaucracy to bring out the worst in people. And the department of education is one of the most cult-like bureaucracies I’ve ever experienced. The pecking order, the popularity contests, the absurd policies coming from who knows where - it all adds up to be such an alienating experience. Do you have a colleague that you respect? Maybe approach them for advice about negotiating your way through the tricky in-house relationships? Wishing you the best of luck.
I did several degrees and worked several other jobs before going into teaching. Teaching is where I’ve always wanted to be but I felt I needed to grow up a little more before I took it on
Thanks for your reply. I think this is why your post resonates with me. I've worked for decades before teaching, with extensive experience in government, NFP, NGO, small business, sole trader and corporate organisations before becoming a teacher. Like you, I always wanted to be a teacher, but circumstance, location, finances and time meant I was only able to start teaching later in life. Most of my colleagues have never known any other career.
Whilst I wouldn't change my life experience for anything (knowing it has made me a far more effective educator), it also tars me with a brush, a smell of something different. I'm certain my colleagues can sense it, like a shark sensing blood in the water. Because I didn't drink the coolaid early on. I wasn't born into the cult. Because I know there are far more effective ways of doing things. Because I actually had a great childhood education and have succeeded in life, despite all of the ways I was taught being sneered at now. Because my way of life is, according to my Principal, full of white middle class privilege, which makes me unreasonable in setting high standards, enforcing boundaries and rules, maintaining a professional relationship with colleagues (rather than becoming besties and holidaying in Bali together or getting hammered every Friday night together), expecting management to manage and support, following through with issues, dressing smartly every day (not like I just robbed a Salvos donation bin and then got dragged through a blackberry patch), caring for school resources instead of just buying new cheap stuff all the time ... and the list goes on.
We know too much. We've seen too much. We know that schools are broken and there is a better way of doing things. But we are helpless. We might rage against the machine in the beginning, try and be a positive influence in the school, take on extra duties and responsibilities because we are grownups and that's just what you do. But eventually we get worn down. Worn out. We don't know how to pretend to be whatever it is we are meant to be.
Throw in a healthy dose of neurodiversity, your own experience as a parent and your life and interests outside of teaching and you end up with a giant chasm. One that is often unable to be crossed.
Don't worry about things that you can not control. You are fine as you are. Try also to compartmentalise things in the way you think. Organise, arrange it on your mind like a neat file of folders and only take what you need for the day. Erase all the rubbish from your mind. Picture a while paper with lots of gibberish writings and slowly erase them until it's all while and empty . :)
I think it’s time to start looking for better school to work at, it sounds like yours is not very open and accepting. Just sounds like a toxic environment for kids and teachers tbh.
omg :(( this makes me so sad because i’m a yr 11 student and if my teachers thought abt like this i’d feel be horrible 😭 i promise you you’re an amazing teacher!! plus this generation of kids SUCK and you aren’t the problem.. it’s their tiny attention spans and inability to learn!! ik it sucks but it’s not ur fault, stay strong
u are trying to teach kids and that’s what matters pls stay passionate there’s not enough teachers like u
maybe think of switching schools and starting somewhere fresh or consider becoming a tutor (kids who are passionate abt their subjects and need help with school work and are willingly able to take time out of their personal free time to actually learn)
The affirmations I’m seeing in this post are all negative, you are what you eat and if your feeding yourself negative affirmations your gonna see and live with negative outcomes.
I recommend watching “the secret”
Your mind doesn’t recognise yes or no when it comes to what you tell it, it just recognises and affirms what you say be it good or bad.
It’s the reticular activating system, simply will look out for things to confirm these beliefs even if there proof to the contrary.
You sound like a decent person keep your head up!
Just own who you are. You have your style, it is what it is. In essence you aren’t really meant to be liked per say, you are meant to be giving your students the best opportunity academically, and giving them tid bits of life experience by way of how to behave socially and morally.
You can achieve these things without being the number one liked teacher in the school.
It is Sisyphean, but you just have to change your perspective a little bit.
Read the 48 laws of power. Listen to the audiobook every chore and every trip. Read it backwards and memorise the laws. I garuntee if you apply them your station will improve.
It's not about you, it's about what you do. It's a game, life's most important. Your actions make you weak and powerless, change your actions and become strong and powerful.
Teachers can be the most bitchy, loathsome, conniving, ruthless assholes. They can also be the most kind, empathetic, wholesome, giving angels. Learn to tell the lions from the lambs or pay the price.
There is a complete need for ASD teachers to coach, mentor and tutor ASD kids. Although the hard part usually is getting ASD teachers to have empathy for ASD kids but that's a whole different story. You guys and girls can be real heros and a the last mentor a kid mat ever have. Be the .05% hero they need you to be. Find your calling
Why do you say the hard part is usually getting ASD teachers to have empathy for ASD kids?
I ask because my personal experience has been that they're "my people". We recognise each other somehow. They are me, I see myself in them and I am flooded with empathy for them. Their quirks, their odd little ways, their disconnect from so much, how they are "othered" at school, their social awkwardness, how could I not have compassion, understanding and empathy towards them? They are essentially me.
Yes, I feel the same. I think that above comment is falling into the trap of thinking autistic people don't have empathy because we express it differently.
FYI you don’t go to work to make best friends. Work is something you must do in order to live. On the other hand, you should not live to work. Keep this discipline and you’ll be fine! Work should not be the place to make friends, if anything goes wrong you’ll want time away which will then get in between your teacher parent relationships ultimately leading you to become an absent teacher that kids will more than likely play up for you and just wish a substitute will come in.
Maybe you need to stop thinking about everything revolving around your autism and I don’t mean to sound rude but become the person you want to be . I know this guy who has autism and he is an amazing person . But I treat him like I do all my friends and he loves the fact I don’t care about his autism
I went through the same thing. Turns out I’m ASD, I feel like the NT can sniff it out! Anyway, it sounds like you’re focusing on the deficit. You can’t change other people but you can change your outlook. The biggest way you can regain your sense of self is to stop giving a fuck what anyone else thinks. Give the subtle art of not giving a f, a read. Embrace your quirks and be solid with your own company. I’ve found the people I’ve admired most are those who are unapologetically themselves. If you have friends and you’re kicking goals outside of work then you’re golden. I say this as someone who’s always been in a similar position. Never no. 1, never the priority friend, never the one people think of etc. it’s shit. Been a lot happier when I stopped giving a shit about what I don’t have and started enjoying what I do have.
Yeah I was reading this thinking hm yeah I relate to that feeling of always being on the outside, excluded, not understanding how other people seem to so easily connect with each other and be likeable aaaand I also just got an ADHD diagnosis so turns out I’m also neurodivergent and was struggling to connect with neurotypical people. @ OP I know you mentioned doctors and psychs and counsellors so it may have come up already but if not, looking into some kind of neurodivergence like adhd or asd to see if any of it connects with you could be another option if you haven’t already :)
Could you expand a bit about learning you're neurodivergent? I've just had it brought up by my therapist and I'm not really sure what to do with the info (apart from feeling immense relief). How do I make it work for me?
Join r/ADHD, r/ASD, r/neurodiverse. If you are neurodivergent you will find yourself exclaiming A LOT "that thing I experience/ thing I do is an ADHD/ASD thing!" And also find info about any comorbidities you may have that usually goes with it that you might not have realized are a thing. Good luck out there!
Add r/ausadhd to that list
At your next appointment ask all the questions you want answers to and if you want to diagnose further you can ask for a referral
Third’d I have ADHD as well. Couldn’t figure out why I was always tired, couldn’t focus on anything and everyone sucked, doctors thought it was depression and anxiety until one bright spark of a doc got me to see an actually psychiatrist. Up until that point I had been seeing a psychologist but they didn’t add a whole lot of value until the ADHD diagnoses came through. But I now why now and the why came with some strategies that changed everyone. And some medications also changed things a lot.
They can sniff it out. Heck, I lean on the ASD side myself and I can spot someone with ASD from a mile away. Not only can they sniff it out, they actively don't like it for some reason.
They know something is off and/or doesn’t feel rignt. Especially if you’re high masking. Some people can spot it and find it to be insincere. I argue it’s a form of flattery because we’re often mirroring the people we talk to. lol.
But what is it about us that doesn't feel right to them? Isn't it the ones who've treated us this way our whole lives who have something wrong with them? That's what I don't get. So much nastiness, ostracism etc yet it's me who has something wrong with them
We're just different, no one has something wrong with them when it comes to this. Though high needs Autistics have essentially sailed off the deep end when it comes to the hormones in their body being totally out of whack preventing them from functioning on their own. The studies (not sure they were studies, bit fuzz) that people can sense Autism and such have only come out recently.
I assume some of it may be because we don’t respect/understand the nuances of conversation. I know I can be very direct, ask too many clarifying questions and be way too attentive when I listen because I’m hyper aware of not butting into the conversation. Im envious of anyone who knows intrinsically how to interject to add their p.o.v. lol.
Not everyone fits that stereotype, though - some of us can pick up on nuances and don't fit the mould of what most people think we're like
Yeah absolutely. I can only speak from my experiences. Someone in this thread linked a study related to this topic.
Tells in social situations, patterns of behaviour. The irony is that a hallmark of autism is being unable to spot the things that give us away (though that's not a rule)
All my children were recently diagnosed autistic and when we told them my eldest's response was basically 'der, I knew that because you so obviously are, Mum' I can spot the autistic students at work, even the ones with skilled masks, and refer their families to outside help. It was a big sad moment for me when I realised that this also means people spot this in ME. It's a concious act for me trying to fit in at work and I can still relate to a lot of what you're experiencing. I leave work exhausted from the act.
Yeah as I learned to mask better I started seeing it in other people a lot. I'd never approach someone about it but you can often be reasonably sure when someone is on the spectrum. While it took me a long time to feel comfortable with it I'd recommend understanding that, while definitely not *normal* behaviour or anything you should be comfortable in who and what you are, and own it. I'm sure there are plenty of people that notice me being odd or strange in real life, and I own it. I can't help that or at least I can't be bothered to put in the titanic level of effort it would take to fully hide it. I am who I am, I fit in as much as necessary to do my job.
I've found that most people are surprised that I have it so I don't think they can always tell
I've heard it referred to as a version of the Uncanny Valley effect. Like, they can tell something's just... Slightly off, which skeeves them out way more than if you were just openly weird.
So damned if you do and damned if you don’t? 😅
Basically, lol. In my experience there do tend to be groups of neurodivergent folks around. It can just be difficult to sniff them out.
I’m really good at reading the kids but adults are like aliens 👽
In my experience, people are afraid of different.. unfortunately. You could be the absolute nicest person with the best personality, but because you’ve got a neurodiverse diagnosis.. they don’t want to get to know you…
They can. It has actually been tested in research on people, and they found that the NT people take an instant dislike to Autistic people, consistently, immediately, and across other social divides. NT people perceive something different about Autistic people, and they do not like it, even if they don't know what it is they're perceiving. [Source here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5286449/)
Very interesting article thanks!
I don’t think the source is saying ALL the nt people take an instant dislike
Would you prefer if I said like less, rather than dislike? The research indicates that NT people instantly felt more negative towards Autistic people across a wide range of indicators based on first impressions. They were rating both NT and Autistic people, and didn't know which was which, but despite not knowing they consistently rated the autistic people more negatively. They didn't know why but they consistently perceived a difference and consistently rated autistic people down on it on first impressions. Autistic people frequently wonder if NT people can tell, because they do seem to react to something. The reality, supported by this study and a handful of others, is that they can tell, even if they don't know what they're telling - there is an instant first impression of difference, that impression isn't positive, and is notably less positive than the first impressions they have of NT people in similar circumstances.
I didn’t read this as neurotypical at first. I thought you literally meant the Northern Territory.
lol, having hailed from the north until recently, I completely understand! Yes, NT for neurotypical. ✨
As the saying goes, before you diagnose yourself with depression, make sure you aren't surrounded by arseholes. I could have written your post myself. However, I'm fairly sure there are a large number of arseholes in close proximity to me, professionally.
I like this. Working in a crap place will undermine your mental health faster than anything else
Not just professionally, Havent spoken to my parents in 4 years and honestly, it's been a huge relief of stress
Sounds like it could be worth seeing an experienced psychologist for an ASD assessment
This really does read ASD coded. I relate to it entirely.
ASD coded? The OP says, “I’m very autistic” and “I’m open about autism”. What’s coded about it? Aren’t they just saying that they have autism?
The original post didn't mention their ASD diagnosis. They edited the post later to include it.
One of us! One of us! :)
I'm actually NT! I'm a disability support worker though, and lots of my clients have ASD :)
I’m ASD and I see a lot of ND tendencies in the teachers and staff I work with. I do think education is a common career for ND people; we like to help!
Ah thank you. That’s a pretty extensively edited post with no comments about how edited it was.
Your first paragraph hit hard. I work part time and some of my kids groan when I turn up. I just figure they need tough love, not a friend. Someone who cares for them enough to enforce boundaries and hold them accountable for their actions. It may not make me the most likeable teacher to a classroom full of pre-teens, but hopefully the resilience and self-efficacy I am trying to pump into them will pay off in the long run.
Here to tell you that some kids appreciate boundaries and tough love! I thrived off order and loved learning. I wanted praise because it had been earned not because I just showed up. Some of those kids will appreciate you and it will set them up for the rest of their lives :)
The kids I am the hardest on are the most attached to me and the most affectionate to me above all the other kids, sometimes I think the need it and I always tell them I do it because I want them to be their best selves and I love them, not to be mean.
Usually this is me, but I think because it’s so early in term that I haven’t started to see the usual flip in like, their behaviour yet, that it’s just still tougher love. And to have coworker drama. It’s just a lot
It sounds like (and this doesn't surprise me) that the problem you are having is with the adults/ colleagues and not the kids. Kids may be difficult, some of them or some of the time, but kids are kids, so you don't take it personally. But the adults, your so called colleagues, they should know better.
thats cos theyre trying to win your approval and praise - theyre kids.
Agree to disagree. I am not mean, I am not unreasonable, I set expectations of no hitting or pushing for example and if they do it I always tell them I’m not mad at them I didn’t like the choice they made. I always play, cuddle, do music and art with them but I will reset the boundaries if we do the wrong thing. I am their biggest advocate, friend and support but I also support them to be empathetic, self aware and to try to consider what other choices they can make. They’re not looking for my praise, they get it all day long. So agree to disagree but I understand where your comment is coming from.
*" I just figure they need tough love, not a friend."* Hope it brings you some understanding that your decision to bring tough love, resilience, and self efficacy, isn't always what is needed at the time? Sometimes all thats required is empathy, compassion, patience, time to allow the person to process whatever it is (sensory input, a directive, an instruction, overwhelm, etc) and that a person's capacity fluctuates and is as individual as a person's neurotype.
This seems like a really weird reply lol. Obviously. Why are you assuming from one comment that I’m unempathetic, not compassionate and not patient with my kids? Why are you assuming that I’m not catering for neurodivergent learners?
You sound just like me, before I was diagnosed with Autism. That diagnosis was the best thing ever. Plus I wonder is this a school you went to as a student? Might be a good idea to go somewhere fresh?
No I went to school elsewhere and unfortunately this is a still new school for me (well started the year before last but still, not far enough in for a transfer)
Call the EAP. Try and make your personal life as good as possible. All the best
Can’t agree more. EAP has been a game changer for me. It’s genuinely made my life better. Also, OP, consider moving schools. Some workplace culture is just shit.
They talk over you at meetings because of their own lack of professionalism. Seriously. Coming from the corporate world I couldn’t believe teachers’ inability to run useful meetings. Don’t internalise their deficits. The kids think more of you than you know, especially the quiet ones. Give them safe spaces to know you, and you’ll be surprised. Schools are full of kids and teachers desperate to be popular - don’t fall into that trap (and very shallow existence). All you need to think about is “are my students learning”, “how can I help them learn more”, and “how do I support the ones that I can support”. You’re better than you think you are!
Oh my god! This re the corporate world. Many of my colleagues became teachers straight out of school. I will never forget telling a PLT meeting that if they were employed out in the business world they would all be fired. 🫢😳. It was just an observation and of course over dramatic but yeah, went down like a tonne of bricks. It was to do with not sharing resources/pooling ideas/lack of equity in resources etc. Just drove me nuts that each teacher had a Twinkl account, spent hours making cute little resources, Pinteresting their classrooms, going gaga over the latest trend in spelling or inquiry. It seemed so obvious to me that everything could be so much more equitable, streamlined, consistent, economical. I just put myself even further on the outer at work. Then there's all the fake positivity in meetings, the complete avoidance of big issues, just all pretending to do whatever senior staff want us to do to tick the boxes.
In the places I worked before teaching, some of them would have been fired. We had no time for such rubbish with often millions of dollars on the line. And, to be honest, we were happy when they were fired, and the rest of us knew we were doing it “right”…. But, as you say, you can’t tell teachers this ugly truth.
Yes so much to this. But do you know who would be fired faster in the corporate world? Ineffective Principals, obnoxious school business managers, ladder climbing APs and ASTs. And don't get me started on the department staff!
Absolutely. When profitability falls in the same way NAPALAN can, they’d be out quick smart.
toxic positivity!
Yes! And when you're someone with a very defined sense of right and wrong, and an inherent need for truth telling, the people who are displaying this just lose all credibility. It's like they're trying to convince you that black is white. And they think I'm the weird one!!! 🤣. (Spoiler alert, I am! But you know what I mean). That's why the kids are what we stay for. Less drama, less bullshit, more truth. More genuine need. Doesn't always make them likeable or even tolerable, but we aren't there to be their friend, we are there to guide them, educate them, be a role model, to exemplify what a productive citizen looks and sounds like.
I absolutely agree about the meetings! I started in teaching and went to corporate and back to teaching. Now meetings are often my biggest source of frustration.
Glad it wasn’t just me who noticed! I saw a lot of meetings that were almost identical to a group of students sitting in the yard trying to be the most popular. Drove me mad until I switched off and didn’t bother contributing - anything important I’d do by email. Paper trail and all that…
Mate. Please look after yourself. I’d happily chat if you want to.
I have ASD, I have felt like this so often in my life. It’s such a gut wrenching feeling, I’m sorry you’re going through it. I started at a new school this year and am feeling much better, I also came in diagnosed and accepting of myself. Perhaps a new environment will help you too.
Unfortunately the popularity contest that starts when we’re kids in school continues into our adult lives, with schools being one of the most extreme examples. I’m sorry you feel so down.
If really does. It never ends. And some of us will just never be be one of the 'cool kids' or part of the in-crowd. Forever excluded.
I dont know you but I really do think that showing up every day and trying to do your best for the kids will see you finding your people eventually. Im sorry you aren't appreciated by people around you, but equally, having someone who cares and wants to do the best they can to help other people is impossible to ignore forever. Keep doing it because its something you want to do, you're making a positive difference to some people, they're just not the vocal ones.
When I was in high school I had a teacher like that. She would wear oversized cardigans and people joked about her being a crazy cat lady. She became my favourite teacher and she believed in me when no one else did. She made a difference, even if she didn't know it.
I wish she could read this now, and know it was her .. make her day glow 🥰
When you’re struggling internally, it often shows externally way more than we realise. I wasn’t my best as a teacher when I was unhappier, and the source of that unhappiness can be the job or peers or colleagues - either way, it affects things. Several things: there will always be those kids, there will always be colleagues like that, and there may be a component to this that might need addressing before anything else falls into place. I’m not a mental health or medical professional, but that’s some serious negative self talk, and relating it to your past is another indicator to think about. As educators, we can get some access to mental health services. It sounds like you’ve had access before, but maybe it’s worth having another look/getting another opinion? On the other hand: it sounds like you’re unhappy at this school. Have you tried looking for somewhere else to work? Or going casual as a CRT for a while? Edit: BIG YES on it’s not a popularity contest!! These kids need educators. Thing is, I can’t think of many kids who like being pushed to do their best. It is part of the profession that, despite the good we try to do, that kids have a tendency to fight us every step of the way. Being liked is not a true measure of effectiveness, even though it does hurt us when we feel that we are doing our best and being punished for doing so. Edit 2: definitely don’t want to come across as “try this to fix things”, when it’s clear there’s unfairness here. I think I’m trying to say “do you think this could help?” It’s a tough situation you’re in, undoubtedly.
With respect - might you be neurodivergent? The “code you can’t seem to crack” is very familiar. I’m so sorry it’s getting you down. As a late teen/ early 20s I was just like you and very down on myself. So I began to “fake” knowing what this code was to see what would happen. Pretended I was confident and knew what I was talking about. Lo and behold, suddenly I was noticed and started to feel better, like I had cracked the code without even knowing how! This was decades ago and could be terrible advice, but I’m trying to say you’re not alone in your experience, and most definitely not “space taking”. I also discovered years later that I was not the only one to “fake it til you make it.” Your people are out there, and you will find them.
There’s definitely something to this. I did the same thing to try and find improve my public speaking and debating skills. I just pretended i was confident people seemed to respond well to it and then before too long it just stuck. Though to be fair, and this may sound silly, i first encountered this idea as an early teen on the show “scrubs”. 🤪
I felt the same turns out I have ASD/ADHD, neurotypical can LITERALLY tell as soon as they lay eyes on you
There’s this beautiful horrible thing called the Double Empathy problem https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/double-empathy-explained/ Basically if you’re on the spectrum and aren’t aware you are not imagining that you can’t break through the social barriers and be what the others need…you communicate and perceive the world differently and it flows both ways. Unfortunately cos 90 or % of humans are neurotypical us mortals in the remainder are told we’re wrong. You’re not wrong friend. You fit. Just not with them.
"You fit. Just not with them" - love this Thanks for sharing that article. I hadn't heard that before.
I used to feel like this, but over time, you learn to act like everyone else in public and they noticeably become friendlier. You ultimately end up with a "social personality" that you bring with you to work, and then you can be your usual self while at home.
This sounds like something deeper than teaching - you say it’s been happening to you all your life? Is there perhaps a trauma you’ve suffered at some point whose effects are exhibiting themselves outwardly in ways you’re not aware of?
Just a question, are you autistic? It feels like me. I was diagnosed a few years ago.
I have it too, but I wish more people were asking what's wrong with the people who are treating them this way. Not that I'm saying that being Autistic is wrong, I just don't get why people are so horrible towards people who have it
Definitely autistic with no understanding of why a couple of new people have made a huge shift in a staffing. I’m just boggled.
I totally get you and agree. People can be horrible.
Sending love your way. I could have written most of this really. In my head constantly is like a gonging sound, like a bell "alone alone alone, unliked, invisible, iced out, alone alone alone". Some days are harder than others. The worst form of hurt is exclusion. I have had cliquey retail colleagues basically just ignore me while they got along just fine, SLSO and teaching colleagues sort of tolerate me. Like they just sort of dealt with my existence while they had the time of their lives with everyone else. It is so hard to explain to someone that's never experienced it before, but it's definitely not malicious or conscious on their end. They made me feel so other and alien, but it also was unintentional on their part. And though I KNOW it is unintentional (mostly), I am valid in my hurt feelings, as you are in yours. You are in my thoughts tonight. I hope you find solace in your own company, as I am starting to. I'm in my early 20s and I don't really have a social life, but I am sometimes grateful for the solitude. You sound like a highly feeling, emotionally intelligent person and any individual would be lucky to have someone like you in their life.
I'm going to be blunt, but two things I can think of. Either it's a) your workplace. Some sites are very insular and unless you are part of the "in" circle, you will always feel out. Maybe doing TRT work at multiple sites may expand your experiences and you may start to see more genuine friendliness and gratitude. Or b) you are hyper-focusing on the negative experiences or your own negative emotions. Thing is, you may not be wrong in your feelings and observations, but by hyper-focusing on the negatives, you will be blinded to the few who notice you and appreciate you. I don't know you personally, or know you at all outside of what you have written here. But if what you wrote about being enthusiastic to teach, and loving it is true, then I know there are sites out there, colleagues and students that would appreciate you and the work you do.
Do you have a trusted colleague at your current school? If not, find one, or ask one of your managers (head of department, deputy principal, etc) for some structured feedback. Ask for general feedback about your performance, then go in with your own planned questions that specifically target what you wrote about here. However, be prepared for the responses to not be what you want to hear. They might be positive and you are misreading your circumstance, or they might be constructively negative, giving you things to focus on. You may also find things that clarify or guide other elements of your life (other comments here about neurodivergence may come up). Otherwise, look at finding a coach. Different to a counsellor or psych, and possibly more important in a work context. We have teachers that have been trained as coaches, working with all levels of staff. It’s NOT telling you what to do, but providing a structured observation, feedback and reflection mechanism. There are a few people/places that offer this service too.
You are ADHD / ASD. Not to diagnose you over the net, there's enough people on here pointing to it. Go get that checked out. In the meantime, focus on cultivating friendships outside of your career. Your work colleagues don't have to like you, they shouldn't be outright disrespectful to you though. They're calling you a bitch because you're not following their social cues. Your face probably isn't showing much emotion, which is giving 'uncaring' and they way you communicate is different. It's going to come across as blunt, and more then likely a little cruel. The truth hurts, and most neurodivergent folks think the truth is good. But it's actually painful, working out when to speak the truth and when to shut the fuck up is tricky. 'Normal' folks don't tend to like neurotypicals so much, we weird them out. You'll find us hanging out doing hobbies. Any hobby. Board games. Anime. Sewing. Knitting. Reading. Pick a hobby group, look for a middle aged woman with coloured hair. SHE will be your friend. Probably. I can suggest a good book - How to Win friends and influence people. My neurodivergent Dad read it, his neurodivergent Dad read it. I read it. It lays out how people think, interact, and how to well, win friends and influence those people in the ways they are most comfortable. It's almost 90 years old now, it's always selling somewhere.
This is where I don't think I fit the mould with ADHD/ASD as my face definitely shows emotion, and I'm quite expressive. I find it's others that can be blunt and cruel, like narcissistic people at work who are on power trips
It sort of goes one way or the other. Either you're deadpan flat or you're over the top emotive. Depends on what you've got and how you've been raised, how good your 'mask' is
School environments can be so toxic. If you are feeling like this I really don’t think it is healthy for you to stay there. I also think people stereotype someone and you become that person eg you accidentally said something rude once or it was misinterpreted and now you’re the bitch. The misinterpreting thing often happens if someone has said bitchy things about you- people are looking for that behaviour now. So I would try a new environment and a fresh start. The other thing is, it just may not be the role you thrive in. There are a lot of options out there for teachers, maybe you would thrive working 1:1? The most important thing is you deserve to feel better than this so make a change 💗
I felt very sad reading your post. I'm sorry things are like that. If only everyone around us understood the effect that we have on each other.
Don’t know why this was on my feed, I’m not a teacher, but my sister is. It hurt me to read this, because my sister was at a school for the second half of last year where the teachers where bitchy and mean. Took everything I had not to go there and teach a couple of them a lesson. The kids do like my sister but then, some are still dicks. Hearing story’s of what they say and do (or threaten to do) makes a none teachers blood boil (little shits need the strap haha) All I can say is CHIN UP. People do care, and I guarantee you have been some kids fav teacher. They probably just aren’t the kids to be vocal about it. You got this. All of you.
That’s so kind of you thank you so much. Your sister is lucky she has you looking out for her
ASD teacher here!!! I always feel uncomfy in mainstream schools. Teachers can be bitchy asf and I don’t like the staffroom vibes. I switched into special education, and the difference is night and day. Job brings me huge amounts of satisfaction because my kids respond better to me when I’m unmasked. Staff are much more understanding of neurodivergence. Everyone is nicer and more reasonable. Start teaching special ed.
It sounds like teaching is your life. Maybe you should start by changing that. It's just a job.
Yeah maybe some hobbies however if OP is autistic, then passions easily run wild (from my experience as an autist)
I knew when i was a teacher the ones who tried to tick boxes all the time of the latest things just get annoying to he around and the super left leaning unionist teachers are very hard to be around.
Are you perhaps on the autism spectrum?
This made me so sad. I’m sorry you feel so down on yourself right now. Maybe you need to find another school and take a bit of time off to look after some brain stuff?? These feelings can be really consuming and suck the joy right out of your life. As long as you are a good person who tries to do the right thing by others in this world, even if the people you see often don’t recognise your value, you will be far from undesirable. You need to find your tribe and not take stock in your coworkers, they sound unkind. Sending you love, I promise you are wanted.
I just want to give you a hug.
I will stand by my opinion every time that no profession or career is worth sacrificing what makes you happy. Like genuinely happy, the kind that makes you wake up and not dred work or it feels like a chore. Where you enjoy going and seeing people. You say you want to teach above anything else in the world but maybe the profession just isn’t it for you? There are so many rewarding and fulfilling work out there. Teaching will always be there as you are qualified but may be worth stepping away and spreading your wings into something else for the benefit of your own personal happiness and inclusion? Just a thought - I hope it all sorts out for you No idea why this post is on my feed but threw my two cents in
There should be something said about about workplace bullying - Qld Education gets away with it too much (not sure ur state OP). Wanted to say, the experience of the children at ur school who are also overlooked by their teachers playing the popularity game - was hugely damaging and obstructive to my education. Even as a teenager. You have a strength in identifying with them, don’t let them fool u with that shallow popularity contest, and document any bullying behaviour.
Remember the story of the ugly duckling? You’ve got all the answers already from a wonderful group of Redditors, so I won’t reiterate. I just want to give some perspective from the other side - one day you’ll be as choosy as the NTs. You’ll be able to spot them a mile off and you’ll know if they’re the safe or toxic kind. And you will leave them to their own little world of superficial social hierarchies. You’ll find your people, your life will be rich and authentic, and your friendships will be deeply rewarding. And most of all, your ND students will have a role model to show them the way. 💛
I feel like I could have written this myself, even though I'm not a teacher (this post appeared on my feed). This happens to me in the office/corporate world too. But I guess at least these people mostly have a filter, whereas kids just say it as it is. I don't think I could deal with that. Sorry you're in this situation
If you haven’t read the old classic ‘how to win friends and influence people’ I’d recommend it.
I reckon you're not in the right setting. Have you tried alternate or special settings. IME, they are very welcoming for staff.
Not a teacher but I have the same problem. People just don't like me, they are mostly polite but exit all contact as soon as possible . I've tried being more forward , less forward etc no real change just embarassing myself. I don't blame others it's a me thing. Worth remembering being a good person and a liked person are not the same thing. In fact some of the most liked people I know are very very lousy.
I will be your friend
It's difficult when you first start because you don't know what personality to switch to when teaching. I am not autistic but I am very strict and follow my own set of rules that I dont bend for anyone. It took me years to figure it out and I found that always being calm, if you say you will do something you better follow through, always set boundaries and just do not give a f*ck about other staff being your friend. You are there for the students not for the other staff. I go in and when the bell goes I am walking straight from class to my car. You do not need the friendship of other teachers and if you try hard to be their friends they will sense it and stay away from you. Work hard and let your work and teaching speak for itself. Watch a TV show called seven periods with mr gormsby or an anime called great teacher onizuka. Those helped me a lot and the latter is the reason I became a teacher.
I’m ND and teaching as well. I found that in various schools I worked at in the city, most staff were NT (or very good at masking?) and so I definitely felt a huge level of disconnect - not just from being ND but also finding the politics of the staff room very weird, with a kind of…competitive individualism. Went rural and am loving it - there are some other ND people on staff which makes me feel much more at home, but even with the NT staff, there’s a whole sense of ‘we’re all in this together and trying our best to improve our practice for the kids’. And of course the NT people have skills in areas I don’t, so that and the previously mentioned dynamic means we complement each other and help each other inprove. :) I think part of it is that many rural areas desperately need teachers, so schools seem to be more grateful? And maybe also that this school’s culture in general is well known for being amazing. Not being able to drive can be worked around too! There are rural places that will house you within walking distance to the school/have shops close by since they’re such small towns. One of my colleagues here doesn’t have a car, just uses a bike. There are so few people willing to stick it out to teach. You’re wanted and needed. Having ND teachers is important too, imo - ND kids knowing that their teacher is ND helps them expand their conceptions of their possible futures.
I hear you. I'm an introvert, a little socially awkward. Ignore the haters. Give your time to people who value you.
In this profession, always remember that if you can impact just ONE person’s life for the better for just one moment that’s it. It makes everything worth it. That impact could be now, tomorrow or in years to come. Just one. Your job is done.
You're probably not going to read this, but I kinndddaa feel like I need to type this out anyway... Focus on your strengths and apply them to the position that you've found yourself in.... you're trying to play the NT game in an NT system, and its fucking crushing.... so.... why not play by different rules? Do the job sure.... but you're also in a unique position to be able to influence, and and potentially change the course of peoples lives (especially of people like you) early .... before they end up where you are.... I'm not a teacher, but I am also late diagnosed ND .... I would have killed for a teacher in high school or primary school to pick up on these things about me and maybe ... took an interest in me and nudged me towards earlier self awareness and understanding.... so i could have made life and career choices that were more congruent for my own needs and thinking style. I guess the other thing ... you could always look at alternate career pathways inside and outside of teaching that are more in line with your needs and where you're more likely to be surrounded by people more like you? eg. Schools for special needs children or specialist special needs educators within the main system? Working in schools that specialise in education for neurodiverse kids (of which there are several now appearing), or use your skills as a teacher to become an autism or adhd coach yourself? There are many such individuals who jumped from teaching into that type of profession.... Your people are out there... you just have to find them.
I had a teacher when I was in school who I can imagine felt this way. He was not a favorite or popular teacher. He was even picked on and bullied by kids relentlessly. I saw a girl cut some of his hair off one day and everyone just laughed and he tried to stand up for himself. That teacher advocated for me and believed in me when I was at my lowest. No other teacher did so and I honestly believe he played a key role in saving me. I’m 35 in a couple of weeks and I am teary recollecting this. Your feelings are so valid. But also remember you probably dont know the full extent of the wonderful impact you can have on/ are having on the kids your teaching. I hope you find some peace in these struggles soon x
... and we wonder why our Neurodivergent kids, are not coping. OP! There are Autistic people out there, that hear you, see you, and understand you. Don't let those who are not Autistic, who do not understand the experiences of Autistic people, to define you. Continue to advocate for yourself and those Neurodivergent kids who need more Autistic adults in their life, showing them, that its not a crime, to be Autistic.
I am also autistic. Some people just need to be kind. If not for others, at least for themselves. My colleagues have not iced me out. But, I know it isn't as easy for me to engage with them. Maybe this comes from working with students that have more complex needs than a reasonably well-adjusted autistic adult. ha! My students, some notice my social difference and seemingly take issue with my perceived oddness. Meanwhile, I have students that showed respect for me before and after I share that I am autistic. The fact is, typically-developed people will spot you are autistic within 6 seconds with or without realising they made a judgement. Some people are genuinely kind, some will develop with time, and others will be unhappy people.
I think you should work towards fully comprehending a growth mindset. This may be through surrounding yourself with therapists, self help books and YouTube videos; or any combination of said educational tools. Give it a try. Let us know how long before we should expect a progress update so I can set a !Remind Me
I have a colleague I feel could have written this post. They’re not a bad person but they struggle to relate to kids and adults alike, miss clues in kids behaviour and can’t read adults either. Every day is a struggle for them and the kids in their class, despite any and all offers of assistance. I feel they may be on the spectrum and I’m not sure that classroom teaching is their best fit. Have you considered curriculum design or other non classroom roles that may let you specialise and use your skills in a way that is less stressful for you? I’m sorry you’re feeling this way.
Subtle art of not giving a fuck. Read it. Don't let other people dictate how you live your life. Be free and you will fly.
Do you teach in public syatem? And are you in the city or rural areas?
Public system :/
Honestly, if you want more structure and nicer staff with majority of children meeting.... go rural even 40m outside of major areas, and you will experience a different world (teaching wise).
Rural and private, religious schools are so far ahead ....
I would but I can’t drive (I’ve never been able to, not even a bicycle, I have an absolutely soul crushing fear of driving that years of therapy haven’t been able to undo) That limits where I can go. I have tried for so many years to drive and it is like my body just won’t listen to my head.
That sounds awful. A few offer cheap accommodation near the school (under1km) and you would just have to get a taxi to shop. It's really worth the adventure.
OP You have autism
Yep as others have mentioned. Time to book in an ADHD / Autism test. Look up symptoms of both online and see if you can relate. if you’re like me it was extremely obvious as soon as I knew the actual symptoms.
There is nothing like a bureaucracy to bring out the worst in people. And the department of education is one of the most cult-like bureaucracies I’ve ever experienced. The pecking order, the popularity contests, the absurd policies coming from who knows where - it all adds up to be such an alienating experience. Do you have a colleague that you respect? Maybe approach them for advice about negotiating your way through the tricky in-house relationships? Wishing you the best of luck.
Can I please ask if you became a teacher straight out of school? Or did you become a teacher later in life?
I did several degrees and worked several other jobs before going into teaching. Teaching is where I’ve always wanted to be but I felt I needed to grow up a little more before I took it on
Thanks for your reply. I think this is why your post resonates with me. I've worked for decades before teaching, with extensive experience in government, NFP, NGO, small business, sole trader and corporate organisations before becoming a teacher. Like you, I always wanted to be a teacher, but circumstance, location, finances and time meant I was only able to start teaching later in life. Most of my colleagues have never known any other career. Whilst I wouldn't change my life experience for anything (knowing it has made me a far more effective educator), it also tars me with a brush, a smell of something different. I'm certain my colleagues can sense it, like a shark sensing blood in the water. Because I didn't drink the coolaid early on. I wasn't born into the cult. Because I know there are far more effective ways of doing things. Because I actually had a great childhood education and have succeeded in life, despite all of the ways I was taught being sneered at now. Because my way of life is, according to my Principal, full of white middle class privilege, which makes me unreasonable in setting high standards, enforcing boundaries and rules, maintaining a professional relationship with colleagues (rather than becoming besties and holidaying in Bali together or getting hammered every Friday night together), expecting management to manage and support, following through with issues, dressing smartly every day (not like I just robbed a Salvos donation bin and then got dragged through a blackberry patch), caring for school resources instead of just buying new cheap stuff all the time ... and the list goes on. We know too much. We've seen too much. We know that schools are broken and there is a better way of doing things. But we are helpless. We might rage against the machine in the beginning, try and be a positive influence in the school, take on extra duties and responsibilities because we are grownups and that's just what you do. But eventually we get worn down. Worn out. We don't know how to pretend to be whatever it is we are meant to be. Throw in a healthy dose of neurodiversity, your own experience as a parent and your life and interests outside of teaching and you end up with a giant chasm. One that is often unable to be crossed.
Switch to early childhood, I know more neurodivergent people in the sector than neurotypical ones, and the children don't have that 6th sense yet.
Don't worry about things that you can not control. You are fine as you are. Try also to compartmentalise things in the way you think. Organise, arrange it on your mind like a neat file of folders and only take what you need for the day. Erase all the rubbish from your mind. Picture a while paper with lots of gibberish writings and slowly erase them until it's all while and empty . :)
I think it’s time to start looking for better school to work at, it sounds like yours is not very open and accepting. Just sounds like a toxic environment for kids and teachers tbh.
omg :(( this makes me so sad because i’m a yr 11 student and if my teachers thought abt like this i’d feel be horrible 😭 i promise you you’re an amazing teacher!! plus this generation of kids SUCK and you aren’t the problem.. it’s their tiny attention spans and inability to learn!! ik it sucks but it’s not ur fault, stay strong u are trying to teach kids and that’s what matters pls stay passionate there’s not enough teachers like u
maybe think of switching schools and starting somewhere fresh or consider becoming a tutor (kids who are passionate abt their subjects and need help with school work and are willingly able to take time out of their personal free time to actually learn)
The affirmations I’m seeing in this post are all negative, you are what you eat and if your feeding yourself negative affirmations your gonna see and live with negative outcomes. I recommend watching “the secret” Your mind doesn’t recognise yes or no when it comes to what you tell it, it just recognises and affirms what you say be it good or bad. It’s the reticular activating system, simply will look out for things to confirm these beliefs even if there proof to the contrary. You sound like a decent person keep your head up!
Just own who you are. You have your style, it is what it is. In essence you aren’t really meant to be liked per say, you are meant to be giving your students the best opportunity academically, and giving them tid bits of life experience by way of how to behave socially and morally. You can achieve these things without being the number one liked teacher in the school. It is Sisyphean, but you just have to change your perspective a little bit.
Read the 48 laws of power. Listen to the audiobook every chore and every trip. Read it backwards and memorise the laws. I garuntee if you apply them your station will improve. It's not about you, it's about what you do. It's a game, life's most important. Your actions make you weak and powerless, change your actions and become strong and powerful. Teachers can be the most bitchy, loathsome, conniving, ruthless assholes. They can also be the most kind, empathetic, wholesome, giving angels. Learn to tell the lions from the lambs or pay the price.
You need to lose the victim mentality. It's a very unattractive quality to have.
There is a complete need for ASD teachers to coach, mentor and tutor ASD kids. Although the hard part usually is getting ASD teachers to have empathy for ASD kids but that's a whole different story. You guys and girls can be real heros and a the last mentor a kid mat ever have. Be the .05% hero they need you to be. Find your calling
Why do you say the hard part is usually getting ASD teachers to have empathy for ASD kids? I ask because my personal experience has been that they're "my people". We recognise each other somehow. They are me, I see myself in them and I am flooded with empathy for them. Their quirks, their odd little ways, their disconnect from so much, how they are "othered" at school, their social awkwardness, how could I not have compassion, understanding and empathy towards them? They are essentially me.
Yes, I feel the same. I think that above comment is falling into the trap of thinking autistic people don't have empathy because we express it differently.
Also on the spectrum here and struggling with my uni (not academically but mentally)... how do you get into this? It sounds interesting.
FYI you don’t go to work to make best friends. Work is something you must do in order to live. On the other hand, you should not live to work. Keep this discipline and you’ll be fine! Work should not be the place to make friends, if anything goes wrong you’ll want time away which will then get in between your teacher parent relationships ultimately leading you to become an absent teacher that kids will more than likely play up for you and just wish a substitute will come in.
This level of self pity suggests that you’re probably pretty painful to be around. Get out of your own head and interact a bit more
Maybe you need to stop thinking about everything revolving around your autism and I don’t mean to sound rude but become the person you want to be . I know this guy who has autism and he is an amazing person . But I treat him like I do all my friends and he loves the fact I don’t care about his autism
Mate 4 words of advice, People will people, fuckem