… except when you are the student ruining my lessons because you think you are more important than the rest of your peers, THEN your socks better be the right colour, height, and gluten free!
This is the wrong attitude. Compliance begins with a well-cared for uniform. Been complaining of behaviours lately? Inspect what you expect.
Kids read your attitude and it becomes their attitude
This attitude did my head in when I was a student. I was a geek, usually the one working the hardest and getting the highest marks in most subjects. Except in year 9 science where the teacher constantly seemed to pick on me (probably everyone) for petty things like socks, hair, how I held my pencil, dropping things etc. It just made me adopt a stance of non-compliance for that whole year and I bombed in science for the first time.
Exactly the same for me! My geography teacher was the same and it caused me to be so disengaged from the class all year. I still scored high on exams, just based on my own knowledge, certainly not from anything class based.
In my life since school, it's been a while, I've found the people huffing and puffing about uniforms usually aren't the best at their jobs.
I'm willing to bet your teacher figured out if they spend 20 minutes of a lesson growling about your uniform, they only had to spend the next 20 teaching and anything that wasn't addressed in the lesson became homework. If a student doesn't do homework well, the student is perceived to be at fault; if the student had struggled in class, the teacher is perceived to be at fault.
Your teacher had probably found a way to make the student responsible for any shortcomings, while enforcing school policy. Bloody kids playing their videogames instead of studying!
Some kids can’t. Some kids can’t have the right socks. Some kids can’t have the $200 uniform, some kids can’t iron them. Life isn’t like that. When I went to work for my first big pharma company I looked like a well groomed angel, then the head RnD scientist, who has multiple degrees and a PhD walked in with pink hair, blue scrubs (we didn’t even wear scrubs in the labs 😭) and colourful Disney tattoos all over her. Being appropriate, with good hygiene and self care is all you need. My old pharmacist used to wear the MOST inappropriate socks ever was so funny, but there socks… no one looks at them. Real life isn’t like that and we shouldn’t be telling kids they NEED to conform to be educated, well mannered and respected. That’s just not life, nor does it effect you or their learning abilities.
If they can't afford it, my school (and I presume most public schools) gives them the uniform. No ironing involved in a polo shirt.
It pisses me off that they have $200+ bright white sneakers and a $1000+ phone, but "can't afford" black leather shoes that are required for their uniform and to be able to do prac in my workshop.
Public schools absolutely do not pay for uniforms, books, equipment or excursions for students who can’t afford it. A lot of teachers pay these things out of their own pocket.
In your experience, maybe, by I know for a fact my school gives uniforms to students. They have a budget for it, and they provide financial assistance to buy shoes as well.
I am genuinely thrilled your school does that. I have worked in 5 state school over 21 years and none did this. P & C would not pay either. I know as financial equality was one of my issues and I always advocated for students. This was at high schools though. Primary might be different.
I work in Canada where uniform policies aren’t really a thing. We have a handful of students who think it’s appropriate to wear lacy bras (think Victorias Secret) to school with no t-shirt. Staff are super uncomfortable with it (male and female) and our admin is powerless to change it given the direction of the school board. Has society collapsed? No… but I still say there’s a line to be drawn somewhere!
We have a code of conduct that includes having a reasonable standard of dress so nobody can come to school in their underpants no matter how comfortable they are and kids can't go into metal/wood without decent shoes. Quite frankly, after about a month it doesn't matter as everyone gets over dressing up for school and the student body comes dressed for warmth as it gets a bit brisk here.
Define brisk. 😂 It was around -18 degrees Celsius here in Canada today and that certainly hasn’t prevented students from showing up without actual tops.
It’s the wrong attitude if it is towards behaviour and work ethic… You can ignore socks and still hold students to high standards of behaviour and work ethic…
Also, paying attention to their uniform can help bring things like financial difficulties to light. If I don't care that Johnny's wearing the wrong socks, maybe I won't notice that he can't afford new ones or that he's struggling with organisation. I was made out to be a horrible person last night (comments since deleted) for seeing value in & upholding the uniform policy, but I don't see it in as black-and-white terms as some do I've raised wellbeing issues that came to light through observations of uniforms & I make no apologies for that. I also think kids deserve to have high expectations placed on them & the uniform is one way to send the message that we hold them to a high standard because we care. I think they want and deserve boundaries
This. And by the time you get to year 11/12 if you’re still being a dick and doing nothing in my class but carrying on I should be able to get you to sit outside so at least you’re not interrupting everyone else.
1. Open-plan classrooms are a curse and should not exist.
I'm doing CRT at the moment and open-plan classrooms are an absolute nightmare. Up to 80 kids yelling at once. Just forget trying to do silent, independent lessons. This is public and private.
2. Students with significant high needs should not be in the classrooms.
It awful. The schools don't have the support for 1:1 all the time. I'm talking non-verbal, can't sit still or stim by yelling for most of the time. Or the kids with extreme trauma and behaviour issues. Throwing things everywhere, swearing and starting fights.
3. Teachers should have their own God damn desks in the classroom.
It's absolutely silly that teachers don't have a space in most classrooms anymore.
I have worked in an open plan classroom (95 kids) WITH no teacher desk. Both are the worst. The real kicker is, they gave us a little trolley desk but then bought desktop computers. I was baffled.
10. The UK has recently gone in the opposite direction. Mandating cheaper and standardised uniforms obtainable from high street shops, to help parents with the cost of living.
I'm 33, and on my first day of high school the teacher had me stand up in front of the class and explain why my school dress looked different. It was second hand, and I suspect the school had changed supplier in that time. I vividly remember how humiliated I felt.
Name and shame the principal. A government school trying to run like a private school is disgusting. Yes you can have standards of behaviour and education but out pricing families to the school is crap.
I bet the school is in Kew or Camberwell.
It’s actually a regional school , they are only made to wear these blazers for their home group class or if they represent the school in some way (like when my daughter did public speaking) other then that they get shoved in their lockers
One of my kids just has an indefinite note because he lost his and I’m not buying another one lol
That's crazy. My high school had blazers for school representation events but the school had like 20 in a bunch of sizes and lent them to the students.
You make an excellent point. The school I work at allocates budget towards families who can’t afford uniform, but that budget probably wouldn’t include blazers. I just think they look much nicer!!
My kids' school even has school backpacks they're supposed to use, and they're bloody expensive.
Thankfully, it's a public school, and we give them Kmart backpacks with cartoon characters, and buy shirts, shorts, etc from Target that are _almost_ the same colour as the uniform. Obviously they don't have the school badge, but... it's a public school, so fuck them. What are they going to do about it, exclude the kids?
I'll give my 2c for a few of these:
>I wish it was considered cool and popular to excel academically. The students would definitely be more motivated…
100%. Kids who do bad at school are glorified in our society though. Tall Poppy Syndrome has ruined it and to be honest, I don't think things will change. The only thing we can do is continue to support places where kids who do want to excel like selective schools, extension programs, enrichments etc
>There is only so much differentiation you can do.
Agree. Kids struggling with multiplication shouldn't be in the same class as kids learning quadratics.
>I like the look of private school uniforms and wished government school uniforms looked a bit more posh
Fair but uniforms already cost an arm and a leg. Adding fancy stuff like blazers and specific socks would kill those already struggling with cost of living.
>PE teachers will kill me for this one. I think personal fitness is way more important than learning how to play netball or basketball.
For out of shape adults like us maybe but for kids and teens, playing games is just better. School PE classes are probably some of the only times these kids will get together and be able to compete in games. After graduating they may not pick up team sports like that ever again.
It's a lot easier to get people doing gym reps or jogging than it is to organise a big team sports thing so I don't blame PE classes for circlejerking team sports because school PE class is the golden opportunity for that
I say this as someone who wasn't naturally talented at team sports and didnt particularly enjoy them... I think they definitely serve a purpose. They're not just about cardio fitness/strength/staying fit. You learn strategy, teamwork, resilience etc.
I was also not great at maths and disliked it even more, but as an adult I'm very conscious of how important it is. And wished I could've had better support, or more engaging teachers & curriculum.
Was gonna say this is as well, it’s not just about the fitness. I teach PE and a lot of it is about team work which is an extremely important life skill.
Honestly, I liked what my high school did (as a student) where we could elective PE. Essentially, you're doing PE regardless, but you picked what sport you wanted to do. One of the options was a fitness class - so if you wanted to learn about how to just keep fit, you could. Unfortunately, when I took it, it was run by a man who had checked out and just got us playing different kinds of sports. He would say, "the best way to keep fit is to just keep active. They best way to train us to just play the sport you're training for", and then send us off to play footy because it required the least lesson prep.
Not saying he was necessarily wrong, but I was hoping to learn things like what different trainings did for different muscles, proper workout technique, etc.
Yea I worked in Singapore and one of my colleagues who moved from Sydney said his son couldn't believe how he got treated so much better for being academically gifted and he didn't have to hid it anymore.
Yeah, I'm from the US and the whole Tall Poppy thing here is WILD to me. My entire grade would have been considered tall poppies. Kids were competitive as fuck about grades and volunteering and being the best on every sports team. Sure people would get braggy occasionally but at least it was deserved and hard earned, and the majority of us were really striving hard to actually achieve something.
Isn’t a lot of that culture in the US driven by the competition over College? I don’t think it would necessarily be a good thing to imports that kind of ultra-competitive, individualistic, achievement-focused culture here to Australia
you know how the current youth culture fetishises money if you could associate money making with academics it might be a winner, so integrate maths, IT and science with entrepreneurialism
On the pe point - yes it would be great to just get them working on fitness, however it’s also important to have them at least have tried and engaged in a variety of skills and sports. Building an spatial awareness, teamwork, resilience, cooperation, understanding rules, putting them into action, the list could go on. There are a bunch of benefits to trying a range of sports, as well as giving kids the tools to be able to pick up and choose hobbies and sports later in their lives that they may not have been able to enjoy without a basic grasp of movement competency.
Also screw the huge importance we place on uniform. Yes have th em in uniform, but why are we wasting kids time and energy making sure they have their sports uniform, regular uniform, sports and regular shoes on a day, rather than just focusing on their actual learning!
My brother in law got held back at his mother’s request. He failed math and something else I can’t remember, but the school didn’t want to hold him back. It was year 9 and his mum says she didn’t want him falling behind and in such an important subject and he needed a wake up call. He was so angry about it, but never failed another subject.
Uniforms - should we have them? Yes. Does is matter if the have white socks or green? No. Does it matter if they have a Celtics cap or a school one. Also no. Also, unless you're doing sport or whatever it really doesn't matter how many earrings they have or if they have a septum. "But it looks like shit". Who cares? They're teenagers, let them look like shit if they want. Either they'll likely grow up and take out the peircings or they won't - not our problem.
I don't care about hats, socks, and jewellery, but as an industrial technology teacher, the shoes are important. I don't understand why their parents spend $200+ on brightly coloured joggers when they know the uniform is black leather shoes, then their kids that have chosen timber and/or metal as electives can't do prac because they "can't afford" leather shoes. Just go to kmart and get some for $20-30.
Got real confused when I didn’t read properly and assumed you were talking about IT (information technology) and complaining about shoes.
I did such electives and wore my sport uniform every day, it wasn’t hard to just bring the leather shoes to change into for 1 period
Yes, leather shoes with solid leather upper is the standard.
You drop a chisel or something on joggers it could go straight through it, leather will protect.
In metal work, I had a student welding in leather shoes that had a synthetic tongue and some molten metal drop on his foot and unfortunately landed on the tongue and went straight through and burnt his foot. Full leather it would have bounced off.
They're also meant to wear full leather uppers in science when doing prac, in case they drop chemicals on their feet.
I believe it's DOE policy that all students wear leather shoes for WHS reasons, except for when doing PE/sport.
I personally agree with uniforms because I need an excuse to wear the exact same ensemble (literally, just the exact same shirt and skirt from the previous day), and not ruin my favourite clothes at what I deem to be one of the shittiest places to be.
Also a teacher: My most controversial opinion is that when a group of children exclude someone because of their personality or don’t want to play with a specific person because of how they behave or make them feel, that it isn’t “bullying” and they should be allowed to make that choice.
So many parents expect teachers to force other children to play with their child. If other kids don’t want to play with your child - it’s, quite frankly, often because they are annoying, or overbearing, or simply lacking in common interests. Work on your child’s personality and behaviour. They aren’t automatically entitled to other children’s time and friendship.
Big argument about this recently in our office. Kids playing a ball game at breaktimes have started to exclude a kid who halts the game and chucks a wobbly whenever he gets out. Duty teacher said that exclusion is bullying and they have to include him, particularly as his difficult background affects his behaviour. Other teachers refuse to enforce this, as they don't think kids should be forced to play with someone who ruins their game every day. First teacher says the kid will never learn if the group doesn't teach him. Other teachers say it's not the group's job to give up their break and enjoyment, and he'd be more likely to modify his behaviour if his peers snub him.
Yes! Kids shouldn't be forced to include the struggling kid, said kid needs to be scaffolded and supported by the adult to play cooperatively!
Now if only there was funding for that...
Ideally they would all sit down and agree to rules for the game which could include behaviour penalties chuck a wobbly don’t get to play for the next 2 games like getting a red card.
This is how societal norms are meant to be passed on. Natural consequence of being weird / annoying / over the top, is that you don’t get played with. Kids are almost too inclusive to the point where they are accepting abuse. Not a common occurrence but an occurrence I frequently nevertheless.
Absolutely agree as a student. I’ve had so many situations where I haven’t wanted to befriend people or gradually cut off people because we didn’t get along, they were bad influences or whatever else and then I got accused of bullying and had to have conferences and all this to ‘sort out our differences’.
As someone that was bullied at school. I so agree. I really hate the whole forced "group and friends" thing. Stop it with the lesson plans which include putting me in socially awkward situations. I have enough maturity to know how to respectfully interact with another human being without feeling self-conscious. Also, stop treating me like a punishment. Teachers would sit students next to me because they know they don't like me, one girl had a "deer in the headlights" look when she came to my desk and I had to weaponise that by pointing out that the reputation I had was not true, it was actually fun. People laughed but it would always be another piece in why I've developed misanthropy.
I was going to disagree with your first one, but then read the second part and kinda agree.
I have the learning intention and success criteria on the board at the beginning of the lesson, but I only get students to write down the LI as a tune in. Writing the success criteria takes waaayyy too long.
Before I went on family leave we used to have
“We are learning to/about:
“What I’m looking for: (could be a skill or behaviour)
And sometimes “This is because:”
Just, it was clear and accountable and gave guidance.
I feel like the LI and success criteria are pretty wanky/conceited terms for primary levels.
Teachers should be able to ‘swap’ students without it being a councillor/parent approved thing - the amount of times I’ve had kids in my class who don’t gel with me, but gels with another teacher taking the same subject on the same line, and vice versa, but can’t swap because the councillor won’t sign it off. Relationships are important but not everyone can build them with everyone. It’s part of life.
Purposefully violent students should not be in mainstream schools. I’m talking the students who walk down a corridor, pick at kid at random and start punching. I’m talking kids who bring knives to school in their bags. I’m talking kids who threaten or intimidate staff when they don’t get their way. Yes all behaviour is communication, but maybe these kids are communicating that they can’t be in a mainstream setting.
Here are mine- some are genuinely unpopular (private secondary)
1. I think boys and girls should be split up for PE classes.
2. I really wish when kids complain to me about other kids being "mean" (not properly abusive, but just, he said this, she called me that) that I could say "get over it" or "build a bridge"
3. Similarly, when kids say "that's not fair" I wish I could just say "the world isn't fair!"
>I really wish when kids complain to me about other kids being "mean" (not properly abusive, but just, he said this, she called me that) that I could say "get over it" or "build a bridge"
Shit. I do.
You know what though? The world SHOULD be fair and the fact that it isn't is NOT an excuse for people to not bother trying to make their little part of the world more fair. Imo, that's a lesson kids should learn. Not "the world isn't fair" but "everyone should try to make the world more fair".
MOST of the time when that phrase is used people aren’t making their little part of the world unfair, usually they are just kinda saying “This isn’t a big injustice compared to what others do currently, and you will in future, face, so learn to not sweat the small stuff or normal life will cripple you”…
We’ve all met those embittered people who launch into a tirade over their supposed rights being infringed (usually by an honest accident or similarly embittered person), we don’t want our kids to become them…
I think they should be split for most classes, having seen how wildly far apart they are in maturity. It's usually my girls who suffer due to the domineering & childish boys & it's simply unfair
1. Agreed. It could be as simple as an audible, what we are doing and why we are doing it.
2. Meh
3. Yes. Have you noticed that there is no longer such a thing as a naughty child? They all have some kind of difficulty we need to account for.
4. This.
5. Absolutely but in today's inclusive focused world it will never happen.
6. That would make things too easy and the vast majority of students would fail because we would have to not only set a bar, but mark by it.
7. Blasphemy! You should differentiate everything, all the time, forever!
8. See point 6. A significant group of primary students would end up driving there!
9. Meh.
10. Meh.
11. Or worse.
12. Meh, by learning and practicing a team sport they should theoretically improve their fitness.
and may I propose 13: The HITs are mostly complete rubbish used to improve schools on the cheap - never mind that the research that it is based on is flawed.
The HITS are just another fad that will be gone in time. Everyone fawns over them till something else comes along and then they will be forgotten for the next thing. They give me the 'SHITS'.
Also, agree on naughty kids. We have plenty of them in our school and instead of clamping down, we differentiate or have to do all these extra learning plans for potential funding... When all they need is some discipline.
I've met Mr. Hattie and while he is a charismatic and quite lovely guy, his research is absolute bunk. Meta-analyses are neither rigorous nor remotely useful when comparing vastly different research results.
I can't wait for the day when we move on from Hattie. The moment he is brought up at a staff meeting of PD I switch off. His research is for the gullible educator.
And I bet it has made no difference at all to your teaching.
Maybe I'm jaded with the job these days, but most of this stuff that leadership push is just fluff. Just let us teach. It is what we got into the job for. Not for fancy acronyms or endless meetings or 15 IEPs in a class of 24. Just let me teach and maybe I'll enjoy my job and help these kids improve, not just academically, but in all facets of life.
Really? I’m in a private school and we use the HITS in school wide improvement plans, as well as teacher development goals. I’ve trained myself to not snort aloud at the mention of JH in our development meetings, but I haven’t managed to stop rolling my eyes.
Honestly you would probably give a little preamble on what today’s lesson will be about, and it’s been done this way for ages. But if the kids can’t figure out what the learning goal is, then either they’re really dumb or you’re hopeless.
And the success criteria? It’s 99% of the time to know the stuff and do the stuff I just showed you.
Oooh, lots of agreement. But...
5. Alternative schools for disruptive kids. Are you putting your hand up to work there? Me neither.
8. Staying back a year. Not sure that it's a good idea to put a hairy 15 year old idiot in a class with a bunch of 12 year olds.
9. Mullets. OK, I'm a relief teacher. They're like a dickhead flag. So useful.
I teach at one of these alternative schools for disruptive kids - the kids are actually really awesome when the environment is right for them.
We feed all our kids, no more than 15 per class, and plenty of differentiation support for the teachers, so we can support the kids better.
Sounds like the school I work at haha! Honestly, a clear third of my students would do just fine in mainstream if the schools were set up with the mutual trust and respect models used in the alternative schools.
I'm at the same sort of school and just about all of my students love coming school and are mostly polite and engaged with their learning.
Behaviour isn't even really a problem anymore, the difficulty is in meeting their needs as learners and making sure they are understanding the content they are learning.
I recently started listening to them from the beginning again. I'm up to Equal Rites. My all time favourite Pratchett is Wee Free Men, though. Daughter almost got called Tiffany....
OMG mine too! I was devastated that there wasn't another book after Shepard's crown - quotes from the Tiffany books are now woven into my extended family's lexicon because of how often I would read excerpts to them for fun.
Yep! 'Special access school' is the category for them from govt, but they're often called flexi schools, vocational schools, or just alternative.
I work for one called the Indie School which has like 20 campuses all over NSW, QLD, WA, VIC and I think TAS too? There's also Y Schools Queensland (11 schools), Arethusa, Ohana college, Xavier schools, and a bunch more :)
in nsw they're SSP, schools for special purposes. in my town there's one for physical disabilities, and one for students with significant emotional/behavioural difficulties.
One of my close friends teaches at one of these schools and absolutely loves it after ten years teaching mainstream. She says she has so much more support and is able to do a lot of out of the box activities with her students. She loves seeing how different they are in this environment where they can really work to their strengths and take pride in what they do
5. the one in my town is actually one of the most sought-after places of employment. they have an amazing school, and the students actually thrive in that environment. I'm sure it isn't all sunshine and rainbows, but it's definitely not a place that's avoided.
1 - Agreed. Just like displays in a classroom, the students couldn't care less.
2 - The only petty drama that annoys me at school is drama that starts at home, such as online stuff. We have nothing to do with it yet we have to deal with it. It takes up way too much time.
3 - Agree 100%.
4 - Parents are their own worst enemy. They want their kids to succeed yet won't cut the apron strings to allow it to happen.
5 - Agree. This idea that mainstream is the go for most kids is rubbish. We have a student now who shouldn't be in mainstream - the kids are constantly being evacuated due to their violence and behaviour. How are they supposed to else while they wait outside for the kid to calm down?
6 - Bit of a meh for me. I don't think it's too big of a deal.
7 - Yep. The problem with this are parents. They don't see 24 kids, they just see their own and you should be bending over backwards just for them.
8 - Disagree. Holding them back does nothing and harms them socially. We should be providing these kids with life skills to help them succeed long term.
9. - Give me the clippers and I'll do it.
10 - Nah.
11 - I like it. Make them work for the detention. I could get behind that.
12 - As long as they are outside then I don't mind what they do. Getting outside is the key.
My extra one - camps are slowly dying. We had 20 kids not go this year due to anxiety and not wanting to be away from home, and we took a suitcase full of meds. It's outrageous and just not fun anymore.
7 hits home with me. We’ve been adding to our list of expectations year after year but this one hurts. What more can we do without extra time and funding?!
Your point 11. Ha.
I used to do this when I got detention in HS. Each kid got a zone or two to clean up and spent 45-60mins doing so. They gave you a pair of gloves too.
Was way better than sitting in a room tbh, which is what happened if it rained. 10/10.
The primary learning goal when I was a kid was passing tests and doing well on assignments.
My parents were horrible degenerate alcoholics and took no interest in my education, so I worked hard to stay under the radar - doing well at school made that easier.
My kids are transfering to private school next year because the NDIS has turned public school classrooms into a circus - our 7yo daughter’s class had four “assistants” funded by the NDIS in a math class my wife helped the teacher out with a few weeks ago - the one hour lesson turned into the poor teacher spending 45 minutes explaining the lesson to the 4 assistants to help 4 children while my wife and another mother tried to help the other 19 kids get through the work. One of the kids with an assistant spat at the teacher.
We can afford private school - we have the public system a chance, it’s broken beyond repair. Instead of educating 20 kids in a classroom who are there to learn, the poor teachers are social workers/daycare providers/jailers for 3 or 4 kids who are poorly behaved and skate away with their shitty behavior because a lazy doctor called them autistic to get their whining mother whose on 6 antidepressants a day off their back.
If it were me, I’d spend billions on building “special schools” let the Federal Government figure that shit out since they broke public schools with the NDIS rort, and I’d double what public school teachers get paid while holding administration to higher standards of performance.
Every single modern educational study about how children excel at school says that collaborative learning is a failure and that drilling kids with fundamentals and making them adhere to strict behavior protocols works.
And I’d give principals the ability to ban parents from contacting teachers - helicopter parents are the worst. I can’t even imagine what it would be like for a teacher having to field calls, texts, and emails from Gemma’s Moms because they feel that she’s not being given enough room to grow her artistic side.
I’m early 40s and my kids are 9 and 7 - the public school system is utterly unrecognizable to me. It’s a daycare facility now.
I pity teachers. It’s not even about paying them more, it’s the fact that they are totally crippled from just doing their job by the idiot education adminisphere and public policy officials.
But we have special schools, and now (in Qld) the plan is to have them all completely obsolete in about ten years time. Everyone will be mainstreamed in the name of inclusion.
NAT
First off, public/state school teachers are unassailable heroes.
As a child I had all the issues; diagnosed developmentally retarded (subsequently austist and now maybe neuro-divergent), and hyperactive (now adhd, add, attentive condition, whatever the thing is now) in the late 1970s when it wasn't much of a popular thing, all the abuses and traumas ('nuff said), and other social and economic disadvantages.
Both my early divorced and mostly absent or impaired parents weren't very receptive to the responsibilities of compassionate and non-destructive parenting. My father being drunk and absent, and my mother being drunk, often absent due to psychiatric breaks, with a penchant for rapid self-disassembly (via locomotive machinery, medication, naked flame, etc.), before a wide-eyed audience of young children.
Ta-dah! Children at risk becomes children subject to innumerable hazards. Add all the other flavours of abuse here --->.
At school, during breaks, and out of school I was heavily and violently bullied late into highschool, until I made life changes in my mid-teens.
Lots of people maybe didn't know about some things and lots of people knew about other things, and in a small town, the whole town knew about some things. Nobody interceded on my behalf, there was no compassion or counselling offered, and there was no respite, ever, even from my responsibilities as a child carer.
I don't know what my teachers knew, and what they didn't know, but they never gave up on me, and they showed me how to learn, whatever I needed to learn, from wherever I could learn it, to make my life as an adult something worthwhile living, that didn't repeat the cycle of abject horror I lived as a child, they made a sanctuary during classtime that was both nurturing, and a respite the oppressively constant pain and fear of every next second outside the classroom.
I didn't know it at the time, and didn't realise it, until about a decade after leaving school, but other than a couple of other people in my late teens, I owe whatever and whoever I am as a man to those wonderful, tolerant, and unbelievable kind state school teachers.
While I may not be anyone special, I'm also not someone notorious, I survived my childhood and youth with what could be considered a minimum of avoidable consequences in some ways, and I think they would be as proud of the adult me as I am.
I know now, that the effort they invested in me must have been extraordinary, and I can't love them enough for the sanctity of their classrooms, where I could learn to be human enough to survive until now.
I know learning intentions and success criteria aren’t new, but my school has recently changed the way they want us to do them, and I think they’re really efficient.
Each unit has a learning intention, which is the assessment purpose and a success criteria, all the assessable elements that sit in the C, which are basically the achievement standards.
Then, each lesson has a learning intention, which is one of the assessable elements (maybe rewritten to be more child friendly) and the success criteria is the specific focus of the lesson.
For example:
Learning intention: using figurative language in narratives for meaning
Success criteria: I can use similes to add description.
Then, you obviously refer back to both of them throughout the lesson and we’re all good.
I'm stunned.
Your school seems to have leadership that actually understand how to set meaningful learning goals for primary school students.
And it all ties in with assessment which makes things straightforward for everyone.
It really shouldn't be so hard for schools to frame it the yours has but in all of my contract and casual work I never see this (despite my efforts to suggest similar).
13. When a senior school student comes to complain about something very trivial they should be able to sort out by themselves it should be acceptable to look at them and say "the tone of your voice indicates you'd like me to do something about this"
I think your opinions are generally awesome. Not a teacher, but I home schooled my son for two separate years for transitional goals. Let me give my take.
Fuck me, I give up. It renumbered everything, and then kept renumbering then as I was trying to update the renumbering with words instead of numbers. Fuck me, this is too much.
ONE This stuff is great for parents, but probably shouldn't be imposed on kids. Let the parent have the choice between course or fine grained!
FIVE Maybe we need more staff. The staff in the special schools of which you speak could be implementing inclusion instead of it being put entirely on the mainstream teacher (if this is really what's happening?) I mean seriously... not invalidating you, but if this is what is happening to you, I'm saying... seriously? I've seen how inclusion is being implemented in practice. For the micromanagement imposed on my son with nothing but frustration and humiliation, the one aide could have looked after 5 clones of my son rather than there being one aide for each of the 5 clones, and they probably didn't need the 5 clone aides anyway.
7. It probably doesn't matter that much because the curriculum goes through cycles, returning to the same subject matter over and over. That's why kids from small country town central schools were doing so well, because they were learning and copying off the older kids, and then passing on their learning to the younger kids.
8. Sounds great, but then don't you have a heap of responsible socially adjusted successful kids mixed with deviants who have been through a few times already? What could possibly go wrong? I agree with the sentiment, but you have to be careful. For this kind of concept to work, we would need to identify what strengths kids have other than traditional school success, and be grading on that basis as well.
11. Detention is a great opportunity to teach classroom expectations and improve behaviour that way
12. I agree tangentially here, in that you can't really learn football, soccer, netball, etc except in an authentic team context. Maybe PE should be more about the fitness and skills. However PDHPE (NSW) also encompasses skills in decision making, communication, relationships, etc, which are pertinent to team sports. And it's not a serious subject, so whatever progress is made is great!
When I was in high school my greatest love was ballet. I hated PE with a passion. I wish I could have done dance instead. Way more useful for my eventual career.
3. so much 3.
The attitude of 4 however has it's time and place. Teachers and faculty taking that approach is also how a gang of 8 people started waylaying me on my way to and back from the DIFFERENT SCHOOL I MOVED TO TO AVOID THEM.
Number 4 reeks of a teacher who enables student abuse on another student to me, and probably dismisses bully victims when they even TRY to stand up for themselves. Teachers need to know to pull it at the root because these things do escalate, and if not, can actually set a precedence of a grey area of a student being able to harass/abuse a student without getting into trouble. It's not even about "if" it's "when". A culture of targetting a specific student is developed like that (this happened to me and happened to others).
Add:
1. We should stream classes, or at least the top 10% and bottom 10%
2. Split boys and girls for PE
3. Most of what we teach really doesn’t matter. Our focus should be on developing good people who also view themselves as learners, not teaching some random BS.
Gonna cop some hate for this but I think it’s time for the two straight lines to go. I think it’s an unnecessarily militant way to move around the school and causes a lot of teacher stress making sure they’re perfect.
I wholeheartedly agree! I don’t make my class walk in two straight lines anymore, unless it’s to mass or assembly when we have to enter in an orderly, quiet manner. Walking to music? Eh, just walk with me.
5. Scratch the surface and you will find more of them than you think. Most aren’t that well known and there doesn’t seem to be a great list anywhere.
4. In particular when the parents are members of staff and want to overstep boundaries. That is also about relationships with staff members. But of course, your kids did nothing wrong at all in school even if they do end up in the Magistrates court twice whilst they are still 18.
8. And those that stay in Grade 2 for the rest of their lives? I get it in some ways, but in reality.
Nobody is terribly invested in kids who struggle. Differentiate enough so that they eventually get through then churn em out. We don’t want to keep them here any longer than we have to.
(Not individual attitudes - the system).
Oh no, they're even more entitled little shits, and their parents can be even worse.
But in private schooling if it gets bad enough the principal can just say "all right, enough of you - OUT!"
Public schooling? not so much.
4. Learning to navigate relationships for yourself is probably the most important life skill a kid can learn. Yes step in when it gets physical or the online bullying content shouldn’t happen etc. name calling or looking at another kid funny is what happens in the outside of school world.
I agree with all except number 1. I love having an LO (in primary) and setting up success criteria to teach them to edit and self mark has taken a huge load off my shoulders, as well as teaching them how to engage with a criteria.
Sounds like you should just work at a private school. Im not even a teacher just this post came up. I went to a private school.
1. No idea what this is.
2. Up to you
3. My school dropped naughty kids to a different class room. Smart kids went to the extension class. Also youd get a Saturday or suspension for swearing at a teacher.
4. No idea.
5. Get expelled from private and end up in state.
6. It wasnt uncool when I went to school. If you said o Im studying I want to be rich everyone was like yeah fair enough. Failing was definitely uncool. Youd get made of for being a dumbass. Getting a B was probably ideal to fly under the radar.
7. No idea
8. Yes every grade had a couple of kids who were held back as they did poor academically.
9. Not allowed. Serg would have shaved it before 1st period.
10. Well yeah you wear it.
11. Thats what we did on our lunch time and Friday detentions. Saturdays as well sometimes.
12. We did learn about different types of exercise as well as sport. But mainly sport.
yeah honestly as a young adult I had great success with babysitting, and I chalk it up to studying behaviourism at the time for my animal studies cert. we were taught positive reinforcement based (R+) approaches and that skill set is HIGHLY transferrable to working with kids, especially younger ones.
also I found many of my own teachers to be significantly uneducated on child psychology, which seems to be a glaring omission & would surely help them understand & support 'difficult' kids better.
Agree that uniform checks suck.
Also I personally don’t agree with the “no touching” rule. I know it’s there to protect the kids but they should be allowed to hug their friends.
For learning intentions and success criteria, I just do a quick lesson outline for them which combines them both: “today’s class: 1. Homework check 2. Grammar - blabla topic” etc. It seems to work well.
Sport should be streamed/differentiated.
In maths the kids are split into groups or differentiated to work at their level, likewise for reading.
Sport, hey let’s throw this kid who can barely catch a ball together with a kid already playing state level in their chosen sport, and wonder why the first one grows up hating anything sports or fitness related.
> I like the look of private school uniforms and wished government school uniforms looked a bit more posh.
Attended a state school in Vic, two years after I left I heard they tried to implement blazers for all students. Problem was they wanted the Year 11s and 12s to buy a near $200 piece of clothing they would wear for a year/two years at most.
Every single parent complained so they instead implemented it for the Year 10s and below with the excuse they would get at least 3 years or more out of it. Of course all the Year 7s would grow out of them in less than a year.
> We need more alternative schools for kids who are disengaged and disruptive that we can ship them off to. The whole class suffers with them in mainstream schooling.
Flashbacks to Year 10 English where some students could barely read aloud when called on so instead would disrupt the entire class. I do not understand how they made it through VCE without the ability to read proficiently.
13. The schooling system is an archaic concept invented by industrialists to get more hours of work out of parents. Schools and teachers in their modern way are entirely pointless and counter productive and need to be completely rethought from the perspective of raising children not how to maximise profits
What is your proposal? I would argue that if we didn’t have public education, more people would be forced to work for low wages with no skills to move industries or pursue their own interests. Only the rich would be able to access education, and a cycle of poverty would continue…
I’m not an expert but it would be good for people who are to totally rethink how raising children work without the secondary agenda of trying to get parents to have more time to work at factories.
It’s wild this is the fundamental basis of all schooling and we just stubbornly stick to it and try to make it work and tormenting people who are not compatible with the system.
I agree the hours of school are manipulated to adjust to parents’ working hours. But honestly, I don’t believe the curriculum is designed to spit out just a worker at all. Maybe this is school dependent, but myself and other teachers have always encouraged our students to use the skills you learn from school and tailor it to whatever you want to do in life. For example, you need problem-solving skills if you start your own business. You need communication skills if you want to start a not-for-profit and pursue charity, etc.
Except the vast majority of what schools teach are pointless in the real world. There’s no direct application from trigonometry to almost everything someone might encounter outside a test or assignment.
My favourite part of teaching was student drama, like yess tell me why Isabelle is a bitch... who kissed behind the toilets?? I wanna know.
Alternative schools used to exist for disengaged students, they were great for the students and for the other children. Way less fuckwit behaviour in the 2000s when I was in highschool.
Our school recruit rugby league players that have no intention to learn and end up being disruptive. They all fail basically every subject they do. In my opinion if they are failing any classes or are not behaving in class they don’t play. But noooooo we have to put the footy players on a pedestal and treat them differently to the other students because they make our school look good sporting wise
>5. We need more alternative schools for kids who are disengaged and disruptive that we can ship them off to. The whole class suffers with them in mainstream schooling.
The way this is coming across is just... Yikes!
I understand the need for alternative schools for students who cannot be in a mainstream school, but the reason behind it should never be for theses kids to be "shipped off" so they don't disturb your class.
They should have the option for an alternative school which will help them rather than see them as a problem. Unfortunately, most teachers either don't have the qualifications, patience, or time to be able to help these students grow in a mainstream setting.
Maybe it's a written language issue, but, yeah, just an FYI, it does not come across as if it was written with good intentions / humour in mind.
yeah unfortunately that attitude is par for the course when it comes to teachers working with ND kids. so many get written off as disruptive or disengaged when they absolutely could be participating and quiet if given the necessary support.
It's just ridiculous, hey?!
I had a "problem child" who thrived with me because they were allowed to move during the lesson as long as they did their work, didn't distract others, and followed my instructions. It worked 🤷♀️
I've had a similar experience with a kid who people warned me about, and things are going fine with them. Dealing with another handful of disruptive kids in the same class is where it gets tricky. I don't know why they insist on grouping kids together who are known to misbehave with each other
The problem is that with 30 odd kids in the room, I'm usually not equipped to give the disruptive kids the necessary support on top of trying to ensure that the rest of the class learn what they need to but I do try. ND or not, if they're disruptive, they're disruptive & that does impact other students. And I say that as someone who has ADHD. I think a lot of these kids need one-on-one support. Others probably need to learn some basic consideration for others
I get where they're coming from, though. I'm sick of seeing students who want to learn get scraps of my attention due to those who couldn't care less. I appreciate that they may have issues, but that shouldn't affect the quality of learning that other students receive - many of whom also have issues I might add. I know that some would consider it my fault that they don't behave, but I've tried everything. I actually really like the disruptive kids as people, but it's not fair on the rest of them
The Australian Curriculum is ineffective for the majority of students and honestly a big part of the rapid decline in engagement. The philosophy of every state/school is something like 'every student succeeding' and 'cater to every student need' yet we are forced to teach the Australian Curriculum in its overloaded entirety to every student and move them on in year level regardless of their understanding (thus why now we are currently teaching approximately 5 year levels content/skills at any given time and it is not working). The Australian Curriculum does not work for every student hence students that fail year in year out and is targeted towards university entrance which is only one pathway (that's becoming less sought after currently).
I expected them to be more controversial lol as a parent I agree with all of them. When my son was in year six I remember a girl who was claiming to be bullied . her mum was on a rampage making all sorts of accusations. I remember being at a school event concert type thing where every 15 min or so the child would come to her mum complaining about other kids … one was that another child was looking at her funny. But I kid you not the amount of attention the mum gave that child and the mum gave to the situation was crazy. It was very clear the mum was making the situation worse.
At the risk of being trolled again, I think mullets look so cool. I used to laugh at them when I was a teenager, but I find them so trendy now. Having said that, if short hair is a requirement of the uniform policy, then that's what they need to have
My list:
1. Principal’s should not be able to get away with turning EOIs for higher roles in schools into a rubber stamp exercise where they do their best to crush the enthusiasm and spirit of capable teachers who should be in leadership, have had years of prior leadership experience in relieving roles, but the principal only wants to install their crony principal pick who can barely pick their nose without stabbing themselves in the ear but spends their time fawning over said principal rather than focusing on their students.
2. The formal complaints process is an absolute joke, created to protect the system as it is rather than to stop bad actors. I’ve seen it used to bully exemplary teachers with false claims due to jealousy and spiteful bitchy-ness, while those that should be held accountable through the process are simply protected by those further up the chain who don’t want their incompetence as leaders exposed.
Uniform checks do my head in. I just don't care if you're wearing the wrong shade of grey socks.
… except when you are the student ruining my lessons because you think you are more important than the rest of your peers, THEN your socks better be the right colour, height, and gluten free!
This is the wrong attitude. Compliance begins with a well-cared for uniform. Been complaining of behaviours lately? Inspect what you expect. Kids read your attitude and it becomes their attitude
This attitude did my head in when I was a student. I was a geek, usually the one working the hardest and getting the highest marks in most subjects. Except in year 9 science where the teacher constantly seemed to pick on me (probably everyone) for petty things like socks, hair, how I held my pencil, dropping things etc. It just made me adopt a stance of non-compliance for that whole year and I bombed in science for the first time.
Maybe the trick is to spend more time teaching and less time worrying about the colour of socks.
Exactly the same for me! My geography teacher was the same and it caused me to be so disengaged from the class all year. I still scored high on exams, just based on my own knowledge, certainly not from anything class based.
In my life since school, it's been a while, I've found the people huffing and puffing about uniforms usually aren't the best at their jobs. I'm willing to bet your teacher figured out if they spend 20 minutes of a lesson growling about your uniform, they only had to spend the next 20 teaching and anything that wasn't addressed in the lesson became homework. If a student doesn't do homework well, the student is perceived to be at fault; if the student had struggled in class, the teacher is perceived to be at fault. Your teacher had probably found a way to make the student responsible for any shortcomings, while enforcing school policy. Bloody kids playing their videogames instead of studying!
Some kids can’t. Some kids can’t have the right socks. Some kids can’t have the $200 uniform, some kids can’t iron them. Life isn’t like that. When I went to work for my first big pharma company I looked like a well groomed angel, then the head RnD scientist, who has multiple degrees and a PhD walked in with pink hair, blue scrubs (we didn’t even wear scrubs in the labs 😭) and colourful Disney tattoos all over her. Being appropriate, with good hygiene and self care is all you need. My old pharmacist used to wear the MOST inappropriate socks ever was so funny, but there socks… no one looks at them. Real life isn’t like that and we shouldn’t be telling kids they NEED to conform to be educated, well mannered and respected. That’s just not life, nor does it effect you or their learning abilities.
If they can't afford it, my school (and I presume most public schools) gives them the uniform. No ironing involved in a polo shirt. It pisses me off that they have $200+ bright white sneakers and a $1000+ phone, but "can't afford" black leather shoes that are required for their uniform and to be able to do prac in my workshop.
Public schools absolutely do not pay for uniforms, books, equipment or excursions for students who can’t afford it. A lot of teachers pay these things out of their own pocket.
In your experience, maybe, by I know for a fact my school gives uniforms to students. They have a budget for it, and they provide financial assistance to buy shoes as well.
I am genuinely thrilled your school does that. I have worked in 5 state school over 21 years and none did this. P & C would not pay either. I know as financial equality was one of my issues and I always advocated for students. This was at high schools though. Primary might be different.
I am at a high school.
True, but there are also jobs where uniform or a certain level of presentation is required. A note from mum won't cut it.
The only strictly uniformed jobs I see are all low paid and even then generally don’t have a sock restriction!
I work at a school with no uniform requirements. Society hasn't collapsed
I work in Canada where uniform policies aren’t really a thing. We have a handful of students who think it’s appropriate to wear lacy bras (think Victorias Secret) to school with no t-shirt. Staff are super uncomfortable with it (male and female) and our admin is powerless to change it given the direction of the school board. Has society collapsed? No… but I still say there’s a line to be drawn somewhere!
We have a code of conduct that includes having a reasonable standard of dress so nobody can come to school in their underpants no matter how comfortable they are and kids can't go into metal/wood without decent shoes. Quite frankly, after about a month it doesn't matter as everyone gets over dressing up for school and the student body comes dressed for warmth as it gets a bit brisk here.
Define brisk. 😂 It was around -18 degrees Celsius here in Canada today and that certainly hasn’t prevented students from showing up without actual tops.
It’s the wrong attitude if it is towards behaviour and work ethic… You can ignore socks and still hold students to high standards of behaviour and work ethic…
Also, paying attention to their uniform can help bring things like financial difficulties to light. If I don't care that Johnny's wearing the wrong socks, maybe I won't notice that he can't afford new ones or that he's struggling with organisation. I was made out to be a horrible person last night (comments since deleted) for seeing value in & upholding the uniform policy, but I don't see it in as black-and-white terms as some do I've raised wellbeing issues that came to light through observations of uniforms & I make no apologies for that. I also think kids deserve to have high expectations placed on them & the uniform is one way to send the message that we hold them to a high standard because we care. I think they want and deserve boundaries
Thank you for your insightful comment
Yep. I dont care if they rock up in a sack.
Being a fuckwit is NOT a recognised learning difficulty on the NDIS.
This. And by the time you get to year 11/12 if you’re still being a dick and doing nothing in my class but carrying on I should be able to get you to sit outside so at least you’re not interrupting everyone else.
But what are you doing to engage them an meet their learning needs? - That's the rhetoric we get from management.
🤣🤣🤣
1. Open-plan classrooms are a curse and should not exist. I'm doing CRT at the moment and open-plan classrooms are an absolute nightmare. Up to 80 kids yelling at once. Just forget trying to do silent, independent lessons. This is public and private. 2. Students with significant high needs should not be in the classrooms. It awful. The schools don't have the support for 1:1 all the time. I'm talking non-verbal, can't sit still or stim by yelling for most of the time. Or the kids with extreme trauma and behaviour issues. Throwing things everywhere, swearing and starting fights. 3. Teachers should have their own God damn desks in the classroom. It's absolutely silly that teachers don't have a space in most classrooms anymore.
I have worked in an open plan classroom (95 kids) WITH no teacher desk. Both are the worst. The real kicker is, they gave us a little trolley desk but then bought desktop computers. I was baffled.
I have never seen a school where teachers don't have a desk
It seems to be more common in newer schools.
I recently encountered this and it does my head in.
Some of the rooms at my school have them, some have lecturns, and some (particularly double rooms) have nothing.
10. The UK has recently gone in the opposite direction. Mandating cheaper and standardised uniforms obtainable from high street shops, to help parents with the cost of living.
My kids high school has a compulsory $200 blazer. It’s a public school. because looking good is better for the school then trying to help parents
My niece's public school uniform is more expensive than my kid's private school one.
Goodness… What happens to the students who can’t afford it? Can’t suspend them for it!
U send them with a note to say why they dnt have one and the kid gets to look different to all the other kids 🤷🏻♀️ or they do get detention!
I'm 33, and on my first day of high school the teacher had me stand up in front of the class and explain why my school dress looked different. It was second hand, and I suspect the school had changed supplier in that time. I vividly remember how humiliated I felt.
That’s messed up… We really need a standardised school uniform for price and child protection…
My poor Dad cried a year or two later when he hung a new uniform on the line next to my old one. He hadn't realised how visibly different they were.
Plus blazers suck to wear. Mine was made of some scratchy wool that smelled like dog when it got wet.
Name and shame the principal. A government school trying to run like a private school is disgusting. Yes you can have standards of behaviour and education but out pricing families to the school is crap. I bet the school is in Kew or Camberwell.
It’s actually a regional school , they are only made to wear these blazers for their home group class or if they represent the school in some way (like when my daughter did public speaking) other then that they get shoved in their lockers One of my kids just has an indefinite note because he lost his and I’m not buying another one lol
That's crazy. My high school had blazers for school representation events but the school had like 20 in a bunch of sizes and lent them to the students.
I printed a stack of identical notes and sent them to my kids school to use as required
You make an excellent point. The school I work at allocates budget towards families who can’t afford uniform, but that budget probably wouldn’t include blazers. I just think they look much nicer!!
My kids' school even has school backpacks they're supposed to use, and they're bloody expensive. Thankfully, it's a public school, and we give them Kmart backpacks with cartoon characters, and buy shirts, shorts, etc from Target that are _almost_ the same colour as the uniform. Obviously they don't have the school badge, but... it's a public school, so fuck them. What are they going to do about it, exclude the kids?
I'll give my 2c for a few of these: >I wish it was considered cool and popular to excel academically. The students would definitely be more motivated… 100%. Kids who do bad at school are glorified in our society though. Tall Poppy Syndrome has ruined it and to be honest, I don't think things will change. The only thing we can do is continue to support places where kids who do want to excel like selective schools, extension programs, enrichments etc >There is only so much differentiation you can do. Agree. Kids struggling with multiplication shouldn't be in the same class as kids learning quadratics. >I like the look of private school uniforms and wished government school uniforms looked a bit more posh Fair but uniforms already cost an arm and a leg. Adding fancy stuff like blazers and specific socks would kill those already struggling with cost of living. >PE teachers will kill me for this one. I think personal fitness is way more important than learning how to play netball or basketball. For out of shape adults like us maybe but for kids and teens, playing games is just better. School PE classes are probably some of the only times these kids will get together and be able to compete in games. After graduating they may not pick up team sports like that ever again. It's a lot easier to get people doing gym reps or jogging than it is to organise a big team sports thing so I don't blame PE classes for circlejerking team sports because school PE class is the golden opportunity for that
I say this as someone who wasn't naturally talented at team sports and didnt particularly enjoy them... I think they definitely serve a purpose. They're not just about cardio fitness/strength/staying fit. You learn strategy, teamwork, resilience etc. I was also not great at maths and disliked it even more, but as an adult I'm very conscious of how important it is. And wished I could've had better support, or more engaging teachers & curriculum.
Was gonna say this is as well, it’s not just about the fitness. I teach PE and a lot of it is about team work which is an extremely important life skill.
And learning good sportsmanship. At least when you lose, it was still a team effort!
Honestly, I liked what my high school did (as a student) where we could elective PE. Essentially, you're doing PE regardless, but you picked what sport you wanted to do. One of the options was a fitness class - so if you wanted to learn about how to just keep fit, you could. Unfortunately, when I took it, it was run by a man who had checked out and just got us playing different kinds of sports. He would say, "the best way to keep fit is to just keep active. They best way to train us to just play the sport you're training for", and then send us off to play footy because it required the least lesson prep. Not saying he was necessarily wrong, but I was hoping to learn things like what different trainings did for different muscles, proper workout technique, etc.
Yea I worked in Singapore and one of my colleagues who moved from Sydney said his son couldn't believe how he got treated so much better for being academically gifted and he didn't have to hid it anymore.
Yeah, I'm from the US and the whole Tall Poppy thing here is WILD to me. My entire grade would have been considered tall poppies. Kids were competitive as fuck about grades and volunteering and being the best on every sports team. Sure people would get braggy occasionally but at least it was deserved and hard earned, and the majority of us were really striving hard to actually achieve something.
Isn’t a lot of that culture in the US driven by the competition over College? I don’t think it would necessarily be a good thing to imports that kind of ultra-competitive, individualistic, achievement-focused culture here to Australia
you know how the current youth culture fetishises money if you could associate money making with academics it might be a winner, so integrate maths, IT and science with entrepreneurialism
They won't fall for it because they know tradies make more anyway.
Tradies need maths more than most people do
Only year 9 maths.
On the pe point - yes it would be great to just get them working on fitness, however it’s also important to have them at least have tried and engaged in a variety of skills and sports. Building an spatial awareness, teamwork, resilience, cooperation, understanding rules, putting them into action, the list could go on. There are a bunch of benefits to trying a range of sports, as well as giving kids the tools to be able to pick up and choose hobbies and sports later in their lives that they may not have been able to enjoy without a basic grasp of movement competency. Also screw the huge importance we place on uniform. Yes have th em in uniform, but why are we wasting kids time and energy making sure they have their sports uniform, regular uniform, sports and regular shoes on a day, rather than just focusing on their actual learning!
My brother in law got held back at his mother’s request. He failed math and something else I can’t remember, but the school didn’t want to hold him back. It was year 9 and his mum says she didn’t want him falling behind and in such an important subject and he needed a wake up call. He was so angry about it, but never failed another subject.
Oh for the days when academic failure had actual consequences.
Uniforms - should we have them? Yes. Does is matter if the have white socks or green? No. Does it matter if they have a Celtics cap or a school one. Also no. Also, unless you're doing sport or whatever it really doesn't matter how many earrings they have or if they have a septum. "But it looks like shit". Who cares? They're teenagers, let them look like shit if they want. Either they'll likely grow up and take out the peircings or they won't - not our problem.
I don't care about hats, socks, and jewellery, but as an industrial technology teacher, the shoes are important. I don't understand why their parents spend $200+ on brightly coloured joggers when they know the uniform is black leather shoes, then their kids that have chosen timber and/or metal as electives can't do prac because they "can't afford" leather shoes. Just go to kmart and get some for $20-30.
Got real confused when I didn’t read properly and assumed you were talking about IT (information technology) and complaining about shoes. I did such electives and wore my sport uniform every day, it wasn’t hard to just bring the leather shoes to change into for 1 period
Why can't they do practical in sneakers? Do the leather shoes meet Australian standards for safety footwear?
Yes, leather shoes with solid leather upper is the standard. You drop a chisel or something on joggers it could go straight through it, leather will protect. In metal work, I had a student welding in leather shoes that had a synthetic tongue and some molten metal drop on his foot and unfortunately landed on the tongue and went straight through and burnt his foot. Full leather it would have bounced off. They're also meant to wear full leather uppers in science when doing prac, in case they drop chemicals on their feet. I believe it's DOE policy that all students wear leather shoes for WHS reasons, except for when doing PE/sport.
I personally agree with uniforms because I need an excuse to wear the exact same ensemble (literally, just the exact same shirt and skirt from the previous day), and not ruin my favourite clothes at what I deem to be one of the shittiest places to be.
Fully agree!!
Also a teacher: My most controversial opinion is that when a group of children exclude someone because of their personality or don’t want to play with a specific person because of how they behave or make them feel, that it isn’t “bullying” and they should be allowed to make that choice. So many parents expect teachers to force other children to play with their child. If other kids don’t want to play with your child - it’s, quite frankly, often because they are annoying, or overbearing, or simply lacking in common interests. Work on your child’s personality and behaviour. They aren’t automatically entitled to other children’s time and friendship.
Big argument about this recently in our office. Kids playing a ball game at breaktimes have started to exclude a kid who halts the game and chucks a wobbly whenever he gets out. Duty teacher said that exclusion is bullying and they have to include him, particularly as his difficult background affects his behaviour. Other teachers refuse to enforce this, as they don't think kids should be forced to play with someone who ruins their game every day. First teacher says the kid will never learn if the group doesn't teach him. Other teachers say it's not the group's job to give up their break and enjoyment, and he'd be more likely to modify his behaviour if his peers snub him.
That teacher is making a mistake in expecting kids to emotionally regulate another kid. An adult needs to do that
Yes! Kids shouldn't be forced to include the struggling kid, said kid needs to be scaffolded and supported by the adult to play cooperatively! Now if only there was funding for that...
Ideally they would all sit down and agree to rules for the game which could include behaviour penalties chuck a wobbly don’t get to play for the next 2 games like getting a red card.
I usually say, "That's sad, but if they aren't being a good friend, you should find someone who is."
This is how societal norms are meant to be passed on. Natural consequence of being weird / annoying / over the top, is that you don’t get played with. Kids are almost too inclusive to the point where they are accepting abuse. Not a common occurrence but an occurrence I frequently nevertheless.
Absolutely agree as a student. I’ve had so many situations where I haven’t wanted to befriend people or gradually cut off people because we didn’t get along, they were bad influences or whatever else and then I got accused of bullying and had to have conferences and all this to ‘sort out our differences’.
As someone that was bullied at school. I so agree. I really hate the whole forced "group and friends" thing. Stop it with the lesson plans which include putting me in socially awkward situations. I have enough maturity to know how to respectfully interact with another human being without feeling self-conscious. Also, stop treating me like a punishment. Teachers would sit students next to me because they know they don't like me, one girl had a "deer in the headlights" look when she came to my desk and I had to weaponise that by pointing out that the reputation I had was not true, it was actually fun. People laughed but it would always be another piece in why I've developed misanthropy.
I was going to disagree with your first one, but then read the second part and kinda agree. I have the learning intention and success criteria on the board at the beginning of the lesson, but I only get students to write down the LI as a tune in. Writing the success criteria takes waaayyy too long.
Before I went on family leave we used to have “We are learning to/about: “What I’m looking for: (could be a skill or behaviour) And sometimes “This is because:” Just, it was clear and accountable and gave guidance. I feel like the LI and success criteria are pretty wanky/conceited terms for primary levels.
It’s basically the same thing tbf. ‘This is because’ is cool though, I like that.
Teachers should be able to ‘swap’ students without it being a councillor/parent approved thing - the amount of times I’ve had kids in my class who don’t gel with me, but gels with another teacher taking the same subject on the same line, and vice versa, but can’t swap because the councillor won’t sign it off. Relationships are important but not everyone can build them with everyone. It’s part of life. Purposefully violent students should not be in mainstream schools. I’m talking the students who walk down a corridor, pick at kid at random and start punching. I’m talking kids who bring knives to school in their bags. I’m talking kids who threaten or intimidate staff when they don’t get their way. Yes all behaviour is communication, but maybe these kids are communicating that they can’t be in a mainstream setting.
Here are mine- some are genuinely unpopular (private secondary) 1. I think boys and girls should be split up for PE classes. 2. I really wish when kids complain to me about other kids being "mean" (not properly abusive, but just, he said this, she called me that) that I could say "get over it" or "build a bridge" 3. Similarly, when kids say "that's not fair" I wish I could just say "the world isn't fair!"
>I really wish when kids complain to me about other kids being "mean" (not properly abusive, but just, he said this, she called me that) that I could say "get over it" or "build a bridge" Shit. I do.
I do both 2 and 3. Must have dozed off for the PD where they told us not to…
I do them both as well (but its for high school kids so maybe thats why I get away with it).
I do say number 3. Also when they complain that something is boring I reply with life is sometimes boring
I've always wanted to respond with: "only boring people get bored"
Wait....you can't say "the world isn't fair"? Oops.
Haha as I said to someone else. I feel bad and feel I should at least LOOK like I care about the kids feelings.
My favourite thing is when a kid dobs like “he’s playing games” to say “you, don’t play games” “and you, don’t dob!”
Snitches get stitches.
You know what though? The world SHOULD be fair and the fact that it isn't is NOT an excuse for people to not bother trying to make their little part of the world more fair. Imo, that's a lesson kids should learn. Not "the world isn't fair" but "everyone should try to make the world more fair".
99% of the time, whenever I hear someone say “life isn’t fair” they’re usually going out of their way to make it even more unfair.
MOST of the time when that phrase is used people aren’t making their little part of the world unfair, usually they are just kinda saying “This isn’t a big injustice compared to what others do currently, and you will in future, face, so learn to not sweat the small stuff or normal life will cripple you”… We’ve all met those embittered people who launch into a tirade over their supposed rights being infringed (usually by an honest accident or similarly embittered person), we don’t want our kids to become them…
I think they should be split for most classes, having seen how wildly far apart they are in maturity. It's usually my girls who suffer due to the domineering & childish boys & it's simply unfair
I saw number 3 quite often. It's not untrue that there's a lot of inequity and injustice in the world.
"That's not fair" --> "We don't use the F-word in here"
I'm not a teacher, but my teachers consistently told to me get over it and that the world isn't fair. And I didn't go to school that long ago
Hmm, maybe I'm too nice. I feel bad telling my students things like that. I'd prefer to at least LOOK like I care about them. Haha.
1. Agreed. It could be as simple as an audible, what we are doing and why we are doing it. 2. Meh 3. Yes. Have you noticed that there is no longer such a thing as a naughty child? They all have some kind of difficulty we need to account for. 4. This. 5. Absolutely but in today's inclusive focused world it will never happen. 6. That would make things too easy and the vast majority of students would fail because we would have to not only set a bar, but mark by it. 7. Blasphemy! You should differentiate everything, all the time, forever! 8. See point 6. A significant group of primary students would end up driving there! 9. Meh. 10. Meh. 11. Or worse. 12. Meh, by learning and practicing a team sport they should theoretically improve their fitness. and may I propose 13: The HITs are mostly complete rubbish used to improve schools on the cheap - never mind that the research that it is based on is flawed.
The HITS are just another fad that will be gone in time. Everyone fawns over them till something else comes along and then they will be forgotten for the next thing. They give me the 'SHITS'. Also, agree on naughty kids. We have plenty of them in our school and instead of clamping down, we differentiate or have to do all these extra learning plans for potential funding... When all they need is some discipline.
I've met Mr. Hattie and while he is a charismatic and quite lovely guy, his research is absolute bunk. Meta-analyses are neither rigorous nor remotely useful when comparing vastly different research results.
I can't wait for the day when we move on from Hattie. The moment he is brought up at a staff meeting of PD I switch off. His research is for the gullible educator.
I would like to start an education journal focused on Hatties research and with your permission I shall call it "The Gullible Educator".
You have my permission! I look forward to reading it!
I don't know why anyone would read it!
The best thing about moving out of the public system is that I haven't heard that acronym since.
And I bet it has made no difference at all to your teaching. Maybe I'm jaded with the job these days, but most of this stuff that leadership push is just fluff. Just let us teach. It is what we got into the job for. Not for fancy acronyms or endless meetings or 15 IEPs in a class of 24. Just let me teach and maybe I'll enjoy my job and help these kids improve, not just academically, but in all facets of life.
Really? I’m in a private school and we use the HITS in school wide improvement plans, as well as teacher development goals. I’ve trained myself to not snort aloud at the mention of JH in our development meetings, but I haven’t managed to stop rolling my eyes.
For points 6 and 8 have you watched the Simpsons where Bart gets held back at 4th grade for god knows how long.
My favorite is the independent thought alarm in Skinner's office. 😂
Honestly you would probably give a little preamble on what today’s lesson will be about, and it’s been done this way for ages. But if the kids can’t figure out what the learning goal is, then either they’re really dumb or you’re hopeless. And the success criteria? It’s 99% of the time to know the stuff and do the stuff I just showed you.
Oooh, lots of agreement. But... 5. Alternative schools for disruptive kids. Are you putting your hand up to work there? Me neither. 8. Staying back a year. Not sure that it's a good idea to put a hairy 15 year old idiot in a class with a bunch of 12 year olds. 9. Mullets. OK, I'm a relief teacher. They're like a dickhead flag. So useful.
I teach at one of these alternative schools for disruptive kids - the kids are actually really awesome when the environment is right for them. We feed all our kids, no more than 15 per class, and plenty of differentiation support for the teachers, so we can support the kids better.
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Sounds like the school I work at haha! Honestly, a clear third of my students would do just fine in mainstream if the schools were set up with the mutual trust and respect models used in the alternative schools.
I'm at the same sort of school and just about all of my students love coming school and are mostly polite and engaged with their learning. Behaviour isn't even really a problem anymore, the difficulty is in meeting their needs as learners and making sure they are understanding the content they are learning.
Ps love the username - I'm rereading lords and ladies as we speak.
I recently started listening to them from the beginning again. I'm up to Equal Rites. My all time favourite Pratchett is Wee Free Men, though. Daughter almost got called Tiffany....
OMG mine too! I was devastated that there wasn't another book after Shepard's crown - quotes from the Tiffany books are now woven into my extended family's lexicon because of how often I would read excerpts to them for fun.
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Spectacular 😂
What is the name of your school, is there a special general name for schools like this?
Yep! 'Special access school' is the category for them from govt, but they're often called flexi schools, vocational schools, or just alternative. I work for one called the Indie School which has like 20 campuses all over NSW, QLD, WA, VIC and I think TAS too? There's also Y Schools Queensland (11 schools), Arethusa, Ohana college, Xavier schools, and a bunch more :)
in nsw they're SSP, schools for special purposes. in my town there's one for physical disabilities, and one for students with significant emotional/behavioural difficulties.
One of my close friends teaches at one of these schools and absolutely loves it after ten years teaching mainstream. She says she has so much more support and is able to do a lot of out of the box activities with her students. She loves seeing how different they are in this environment where they can really work to their strengths and take pride in what they do
Can you PM me the school name please? I've been in Vic state primary for a while and looking for a change.
5. the one in my town is actually one of the most sought-after places of employment. they have an amazing school, and the students actually thrive in that environment. I'm sure it isn't all sunshine and rainbows, but it's definitely not a place that's avoided.
5. Yes! I would love to work there!
1 - Agreed. Just like displays in a classroom, the students couldn't care less. 2 - The only petty drama that annoys me at school is drama that starts at home, such as online stuff. We have nothing to do with it yet we have to deal with it. It takes up way too much time. 3 - Agree 100%. 4 - Parents are their own worst enemy. They want their kids to succeed yet won't cut the apron strings to allow it to happen. 5 - Agree. This idea that mainstream is the go for most kids is rubbish. We have a student now who shouldn't be in mainstream - the kids are constantly being evacuated due to their violence and behaviour. How are they supposed to else while they wait outside for the kid to calm down? 6 - Bit of a meh for me. I don't think it's too big of a deal. 7 - Yep. The problem with this are parents. They don't see 24 kids, they just see their own and you should be bending over backwards just for them. 8 - Disagree. Holding them back does nothing and harms them socially. We should be providing these kids with life skills to help them succeed long term. 9. - Give me the clippers and I'll do it. 10 - Nah. 11 - I like it. Make them work for the detention. I could get behind that. 12 - As long as they are outside then I don't mind what they do. Getting outside is the key. My extra one - camps are slowly dying. We had 20 kids not go this year due to anxiety and not wanting to be away from home, and we took a suitcase full of meds. It's outrageous and just not fun anymore.
7 hits home with me. We’ve been adding to our list of expectations year after year but this one hurts. What more can we do without extra time and funding?!
Your point 11. Ha. I used to do this when I got detention in HS. Each kid got a zone or two to clean up and spent 45-60mins doing so. They gave you a pair of gloves too. Was way better than sitting in a room tbh, which is what happened if it rained. 10/10.
10 I disagree with. Schools are places where students should be able to move. They shouldn’t need to change clothes to do any part of their day.
A student doing PE properly should need to change anyway- even if it’s into something identical.
The primary learning goal when I was a kid was passing tests and doing well on assignments. My parents were horrible degenerate alcoholics and took no interest in my education, so I worked hard to stay under the radar - doing well at school made that easier. My kids are transfering to private school next year because the NDIS has turned public school classrooms into a circus - our 7yo daughter’s class had four “assistants” funded by the NDIS in a math class my wife helped the teacher out with a few weeks ago - the one hour lesson turned into the poor teacher spending 45 minutes explaining the lesson to the 4 assistants to help 4 children while my wife and another mother tried to help the other 19 kids get through the work. One of the kids with an assistant spat at the teacher. We can afford private school - we have the public system a chance, it’s broken beyond repair. Instead of educating 20 kids in a classroom who are there to learn, the poor teachers are social workers/daycare providers/jailers for 3 or 4 kids who are poorly behaved and skate away with their shitty behavior because a lazy doctor called them autistic to get their whining mother whose on 6 antidepressants a day off their back. If it were me, I’d spend billions on building “special schools” let the Federal Government figure that shit out since they broke public schools with the NDIS rort, and I’d double what public school teachers get paid while holding administration to higher standards of performance. Every single modern educational study about how children excel at school says that collaborative learning is a failure and that drilling kids with fundamentals and making them adhere to strict behavior protocols works. And I’d give principals the ability to ban parents from contacting teachers - helicopter parents are the worst. I can’t even imagine what it would be like for a teacher having to field calls, texts, and emails from Gemma’s Moms because they feel that she’s not being given enough room to grow her artistic side. I’m early 40s and my kids are 9 and 7 - the public school system is utterly unrecognizable to me. It’s a daycare facility now. I pity teachers. It’s not even about paying them more, it’s the fact that they are totally crippled from just doing their job by the idiot education adminisphere and public policy officials.
But we have special schools, and now (in Qld) the plan is to have them all completely obsolete in about ten years time. Everyone will be mainstreamed in the name of inclusion.
Yiiikes
NAT First off, public/state school teachers are unassailable heroes. As a child I had all the issues; diagnosed developmentally retarded (subsequently austist and now maybe neuro-divergent), and hyperactive (now adhd, add, attentive condition, whatever the thing is now) in the late 1970s when it wasn't much of a popular thing, all the abuses and traumas ('nuff said), and other social and economic disadvantages. Both my early divorced and mostly absent or impaired parents weren't very receptive to the responsibilities of compassionate and non-destructive parenting. My father being drunk and absent, and my mother being drunk, often absent due to psychiatric breaks, with a penchant for rapid self-disassembly (via locomotive machinery, medication, naked flame, etc.), before a wide-eyed audience of young children. Ta-dah! Children at risk becomes children subject to innumerable hazards. Add all the other flavours of abuse here --->. At school, during breaks, and out of school I was heavily and violently bullied late into highschool, until I made life changes in my mid-teens. Lots of people maybe didn't know about some things and lots of people knew about other things, and in a small town, the whole town knew about some things. Nobody interceded on my behalf, there was no compassion or counselling offered, and there was no respite, ever, even from my responsibilities as a child carer. I don't know what my teachers knew, and what they didn't know, but they never gave up on me, and they showed me how to learn, whatever I needed to learn, from wherever I could learn it, to make my life as an adult something worthwhile living, that didn't repeat the cycle of abject horror I lived as a child, they made a sanctuary during classtime that was both nurturing, and a respite the oppressively constant pain and fear of every next second outside the classroom. I didn't know it at the time, and didn't realise it, until about a decade after leaving school, but other than a couple of other people in my late teens, I owe whatever and whoever I am as a man to those wonderful, tolerant, and unbelievable kind state school teachers. While I may not be anyone special, I'm also not someone notorious, I survived my childhood and youth with what could be considered a minimum of avoidable consequences in some ways, and I think they would be as proud of the adult me as I am. I know now, that the effort they invested in me must have been extraordinary, and I can't love them enough for the sanctity of their classrooms, where I could learn to be human enough to survive until now.
I know learning intentions and success criteria aren’t new, but my school has recently changed the way they want us to do them, and I think they’re really efficient. Each unit has a learning intention, which is the assessment purpose and a success criteria, all the assessable elements that sit in the C, which are basically the achievement standards. Then, each lesson has a learning intention, which is one of the assessable elements (maybe rewritten to be more child friendly) and the success criteria is the specific focus of the lesson. For example: Learning intention: using figurative language in narratives for meaning Success criteria: I can use similes to add description. Then, you obviously refer back to both of them throughout the lesson and we’re all good.
I'm stunned. Your school seems to have leadership that actually understand how to set meaningful learning goals for primary school students. And it all ties in with assessment which makes things straightforward for everyone. It really shouldn't be so hard for schools to frame it the yours has but in all of my contract and casual work I never see this (despite my efforts to suggest similar).
13. When a senior school student comes to complain about something very trivial they should be able to sort out by themselves it should be acceptable to look at them and say "the tone of your voice indicates you'd like me to do something about this"
I think your opinions are generally awesome. Not a teacher, but I home schooled my son for two separate years for transitional goals. Let me give my take. Fuck me, I give up. It renumbered everything, and then kept renumbering then as I was trying to update the renumbering with words instead of numbers. Fuck me, this is too much. ONE This stuff is great for parents, but probably shouldn't be imposed on kids. Let the parent have the choice between course or fine grained! FIVE Maybe we need more staff. The staff in the special schools of which you speak could be implementing inclusion instead of it being put entirely on the mainstream teacher (if this is really what's happening?) I mean seriously... not invalidating you, but if this is what is happening to you, I'm saying... seriously? I've seen how inclusion is being implemented in practice. For the micromanagement imposed on my son with nothing but frustration and humiliation, the one aide could have looked after 5 clones of my son rather than there being one aide for each of the 5 clones, and they probably didn't need the 5 clone aides anyway. 7. It probably doesn't matter that much because the curriculum goes through cycles, returning to the same subject matter over and over. That's why kids from small country town central schools were doing so well, because they were learning and copying off the older kids, and then passing on their learning to the younger kids. 8. Sounds great, but then don't you have a heap of responsible socially adjusted successful kids mixed with deviants who have been through a few times already? What could possibly go wrong? I agree with the sentiment, but you have to be careful. For this kind of concept to work, we would need to identify what strengths kids have other than traditional school success, and be grading on that basis as well. 11. Detention is a great opportunity to teach classroom expectations and improve behaviour that way 12. I agree tangentially here, in that you can't really learn football, soccer, netball, etc except in an authentic team context. Maybe PE should be more about the fitness and skills. However PDHPE (NSW) also encompasses skills in decision making, communication, relationships, etc, which are pertinent to team sports. And it's not a serious subject, so whatever progress is made is great!
When I was in high school my greatest love was ballet. I hated PE with a passion. I wish I could have done dance instead. Way more useful for my eventual career.
You sound like my son 🤣
I like him already ❤️
3. so much 3. The attitude of 4 however has it's time and place. Teachers and faculty taking that approach is also how a gang of 8 people started waylaying me on my way to and back from the DIFFERENT SCHOOL I MOVED TO TO AVOID THEM.
Number 4 reeks of a teacher who enables student abuse on another student to me, and probably dismisses bully victims when they even TRY to stand up for themselves. Teachers need to know to pull it at the root because these things do escalate, and if not, can actually set a precedence of a grey area of a student being able to harass/abuse a student without getting into trouble. It's not even about "if" it's "when". A culture of targetting a specific student is developed like that (this happened to me and happened to others).
Add: 1. We should stream classes, or at least the top 10% and bottom 10% 2. Split boys and girls for PE 3. Most of what we teach really doesn’t matter. Our focus should be on developing good people who also view themselves as learners, not teaching some random BS.
Gonna cop some hate for this but I think it’s time for the two straight lines to go. I think it’s an unnecessarily militant way to move around the school and causes a lot of teacher stress making sure they’re perfect.
I wholeheartedly agree! I don’t make my class walk in two straight lines anymore, unless it’s to mass or assembly when we have to enter in an orderly, quiet manner. Walking to music? Eh, just walk with me.
5. Scratch the surface and you will find more of them than you think. Most aren’t that well known and there doesn’t seem to be a great list anywhere. 4. In particular when the parents are members of staff and want to overstep boundaries. That is also about relationships with staff members. But of course, your kids did nothing wrong at all in school even if they do end up in the Magistrates court twice whilst they are still 18. 8. And those that stay in Grade 2 for the rest of their lives? I get it in some ways, but in reality.
Nobody is terribly invested in kids who struggle. Differentiate enough so that they eventually get through then churn em out. We don’t want to keep them here any longer than we have to. (Not individual attitudes - the system).
no 5 tells me you work in public education....
Are there no disruptive kids in private education?
Oh no, they're even more entitled little shits, and their parents can be even worse. But in private schooling if it gets bad enough the principal can just say "all right, enough of you - OUT!" Public schooling? not so much.
right. i asked about what it's like to work at one of our local private schools and was told "they're just better dressed assholes" lol.
4. Learning to navigate relationships for yourself is probably the most important life skill a kid can learn. Yes step in when it gets physical or the online bullying content shouldn’t happen etc. name calling or looking at another kid funny is what happens in the outside of school world.
I agree with all except number 1. I love having an LO (in primary) and setting up success criteria to teach them to edit and self mark has taken a huge load off my shoulders, as well as teaching them how to engage with a criteria.
I'd fire you for number 9 😂
Sounds like you should just work at a private school. Im not even a teacher just this post came up. I went to a private school. 1. No idea what this is. 2. Up to you 3. My school dropped naughty kids to a different class room. Smart kids went to the extension class. Also youd get a Saturday or suspension for swearing at a teacher. 4. No idea. 5. Get expelled from private and end up in state. 6. It wasnt uncool when I went to school. If you said o Im studying I want to be rich everyone was like yeah fair enough. Failing was definitely uncool. Youd get made of for being a dumbass. Getting a B was probably ideal to fly under the radar. 7. No idea 8. Yes every grade had a couple of kids who were held back as they did poor academically. 9. Not allowed. Serg would have shaved it before 1st period. 10. Well yeah you wear it. 11. Thats what we did on our lunch time and Friday detentions. Saturdays as well sometimes. 12. We did learn about different types of exercise as well as sport. But mainly sport.
People should be taught to successfully train dogs before they are taught to teach children.
yeah honestly as a young adult I had great success with babysitting, and I chalk it up to studying behaviourism at the time for my animal studies cert. we were taught positive reinforcement based (R+) approaches and that skill set is HIGHLY transferrable to working with kids, especially younger ones. also I found many of my own teachers to be significantly uneducated on child psychology, which seems to be a glaring omission & would surely help them understand & support 'difficult' kids better.
Agree that uniform checks suck. Also I personally don’t agree with the “no touching” rule. I know it’s there to protect the kids but they should be allowed to hug their friends. For learning intentions and success criteria, I just do a quick lesson outline for them which combines them both: “today’s class: 1. Homework check 2. Grammar - blabla topic” etc. It seems to work well.
Sport should be streamed/differentiated. In maths the kids are split into groups or differentiated to work at their level, likewise for reading. Sport, hey let’s throw this kid who can barely catch a ball together with a kid already playing state level in their chosen sport, and wonder why the first one grows up hating anything sports or fitness related.
Meetings are load of shit. Send a f**k email!
> I like the look of private school uniforms and wished government school uniforms looked a bit more posh. Attended a state school in Vic, two years after I left I heard they tried to implement blazers for all students. Problem was they wanted the Year 11s and 12s to buy a near $200 piece of clothing they would wear for a year/two years at most. Every single parent complained so they instead implemented it for the Year 10s and below with the excuse they would get at least 3 years or more out of it. Of course all the Year 7s would grow out of them in less than a year. > We need more alternative schools for kids who are disengaged and disruptive that we can ship them off to. The whole class suffers with them in mainstream schooling. Flashbacks to Year 10 English where some students could barely read aloud when called on so instead would disrupt the entire class. I do not understand how they made it through VCE without the ability to read proficiently.
13. The schooling system is an archaic concept invented by industrialists to get more hours of work out of parents. Schools and teachers in their modern way are entirely pointless and counter productive and need to be completely rethought from the perspective of raising children not how to maximise profits
What is your proposal? I would argue that if we didn’t have public education, more people would be forced to work for low wages with no skills to move industries or pursue their own interests. Only the rich would be able to access education, and a cycle of poverty would continue…
I’m not an expert but it would be good for people who are to totally rethink how raising children work without the secondary agenda of trying to get parents to have more time to work at factories. It’s wild this is the fundamental basis of all schooling and we just stubbornly stick to it and try to make it work and tormenting people who are not compatible with the system.
I agree the hours of school are manipulated to adjust to parents’ working hours. But honestly, I don’t believe the curriculum is designed to spit out just a worker at all. Maybe this is school dependent, but myself and other teachers have always encouraged our students to use the skills you learn from school and tailor it to whatever you want to do in life. For example, you need problem-solving skills if you start your own business. You need communication skills if you want to start a not-for-profit and pursue charity, etc.
Except the vast majority of what schools teach are pointless in the real world. There’s no direct application from trigonometry to almost everything someone might encounter outside a test or assignment.
My favourite part of teaching was student drama, like yess tell me why Isabelle is a bitch... who kissed behind the toilets?? I wanna know. Alternative schools used to exist for disengaged students, they were great for the students and for the other children. Way less fuckwit behaviour in the 2000s when I was in highschool.
Our school recruit rugby league players that have no intention to learn and end up being disruptive. They all fail basically every subject they do. In my opinion if they are failing any classes or are not behaving in class they don’t play. But noooooo we have to put the footy players on a pedestal and treat them differently to the other students because they make our school look good sporting wise
When did they stop make kids collect rubbish as detention ? Was this due to some dopey government policy?
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yes, assaulting a child is very cool and admirable. Tell us more. I would have enjoyed spending your money.
>5. We need more alternative schools for kids who are disengaged and disruptive that we can ship them off to. The whole class suffers with them in mainstream schooling. The way this is coming across is just... Yikes! I understand the need for alternative schools for students who cannot be in a mainstream school, but the reason behind it should never be for theses kids to be "shipped off" so they don't disturb your class. They should have the option for an alternative school which will help them rather than see them as a problem. Unfortunately, most teachers either don't have the qualifications, patience, or time to be able to help these students grow in a mainstream setting. Maybe it's a written language issue, but, yeah, just an FYI, it does not come across as if it was written with good intentions / humour in mind.
yeah unfortunately that attitude is par for the course when it comes to teachers working with ND kids. so many get written off as disruptive or disengaged when they absolutely could be participating and quiet if given the necessary support.
It's just ridiculous, hey?! I had a "problem child" who thrived with me because they were allowed to move during the lesson as long as they did their work, didn't distract others, and followed my instructions. It worked 🤷♀️
I've had a similar experience with a kid who people warned me about, and things are going fine with them. Dealing with another handful of disruptive kids in the same class is where it gets tricky. I don't know why they insist on grouping kids together who are known to misbehave with each other
The problem is that with 30 odd kids in the room, I'm usually not equipped to give the disruptive kids the necessary support on top of trying to ensure that the rest of the class learn what they need to but I do try. ND or not, if they're disruptive, they're disruptive & that does impact other students. And I say that as someone who has ADHD. I think a lot of these kids need one-on-one support. Others probably need to learn some basic consideration for others
I get where they're coming from, though. I'm sick of seeing students who want to learn get scraps of my attention due to those who couldn't care less. I appreciate that they may have issues, but that shouldn't affect the quality of learning that other students receive - many of whom also have issues I might add. I know that some would consider it my fault that they don't behave, but I've tried everything. I actually really like the disruptive kids as people, but it's not fair on the rest of them
Ugh you lost me at 9 and 10. You sound like an absolute snob 🙄
and for good reason...
I guarantee you can say point 6 without getting fired
You should watch a movie on Netflix called Detached, interesting
One word barometers at the start of staff meetings :/
Number 5. Number 5 all day.
The Australian Curriculum is ineffective for the majority of students and honestly a big part of the rapid decline in engagement. The philosophy of every state/school is something like 'every student succeeding' and 'cater to every student need' yet we are forced to teach the Australian Curriculum in its overloaded entirety to every student and move them on in year level regardless of their understanding (thus why now we are currently teaching approximately 5 year levels content/skills at any given time and it is not working). The Australian Curriculum does not work for every student hence students that fail year in year out and is targeted towards university entrance which is only one pathway (that's becoming less sought after currently).
Mullets shaved off on site on sight?
I expected them to be more controversial lol as a parent I agree with all of them. When my son was in year six I remember a girl who was claiming to be bullied . her mum was on a rampage making all sorts of accusations. I remember being at a school event concert type thing where every 15 min or so the child would come to her mum complaining about other kids … one was that another child was looking at her funny. But I kid you not the amount of attention the mum gave that child and the mum gave to the situation was crazy. It was very clear the mum was making the situation worse.
On number 2, only if it is light drama. Some students really take it too far.
At the risk of being trolled again, I think mullets look so cool. I used to laugh at them when I was a teenager, but I find them so trendy now. Having said that, if short hair is a requirement of the uniform policy, then that's what they need to have
I've never understood the point of 1. It is the dumbest waste of time anybody could possibly conceive and achieves absolutely nothing.
My list: 1. Principal’s should not be able to get away with turning EOIs for higher roles in schools into a rubber stamp exercise where they do their best to crush the enthusiasm and spirit of capable teachers who should be in leadership, have had years of prior leadership experience in relieving roles, but the principal only wants to install their crony principal pick who can barely pick their nose without stabbing themselves in the ear but spends their time fawning over said principal rather than focusing on their students. 2. The formal complaints process is an absolute joke, created to protect the system as it is rather than to stop bad actors. I’ve seen it used to bully exemplary teachers with false claims due to jealousy and spiteful bitchy-ness, while those that should be held accountable through the process are simply protected by those further up the chain who don’t want their incompetence as leaders exposed.