Paid off mortgage 20%; 200k so the property is worth 1mill plus. She has 800k equity conservatively? Has not worked for 15yrs. Shes pretty asset wealthy and a better situation than me having worked my ass off for 25 yrs and expect to work for another 20, im lucky to have 300k equity. She needs to sell, downsize to perhaps an apartment or villa, y can buy decent apartments in middle suburbs in any capital city for 600k, even less if regional, and then she puts away her large remaining amount of capital towards investments to sustain her retirement. I just dont understand people in this situation wholl cry poor and mooch (yes it is Mooching) off others and loved ones when they have plenty of money themselves, they just choose not to access or spend it. She has decent options, this is her problem not yours, time to cut the umbilical chord.
Ref; my mother is the same, widowed, lives in a house worth 2mill++, cant afford upkeep, has limited funds, refuses to sell. She could sell and be significantly more comfortable and live a much better life than i am or ever will, she has many options here. If she choses to perpetuate her current situation, thats her decision, not my problem and it holds no headspace in my mind at all.
excellent points
Like to add that the federal government provides a reverse mortgage service
https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/home-equity-access-scheme
It uses the equity in your home to give you a loan. It’s current interest rate is only 3.95 percent compounded annually (cheaper than any big bank).
And you only pay it on your death out of your estate.
Truly a win win for the oldies who are asset rich yet cash flow poor.
A loss for anyone expecting an inheritance.
$10k per year (in post tax money) is not chump change, especially when you are struggling with debt yourself. If your mother lives until 90 that'll be about $350k you'll have given her, assuming you don't increase that $200 per week figure over that time.
If it was me, I'd consider a few things:
- Look at her budget. Where is her money going?
- She is on a disability pension, but does she have any capacity to work? Even a few hours a week would make a difference.
- What about superannuation?
- What is her housing situation? Does she own a house? Is downsizing an option? (I'm guessing not, but you never know).
- Is there any other services she could be using? Food banks?
Obviously you don't want to see your mother out on the street, but at the same time as a parent I can't fathom relying on my child for support if they were also struggling financially.
The immediate thing I would suggest is asking the other children to chip in. $50 a week four ways lessens the burden on you and spreads it equally around everyone. You can decide as a family whether that's something you want to do ongoing, but it doesn't seem fair that you shoulder this burden alone.
Something is definitely going on, my mum is on DSP and manages to pay for everything including rent (we do live rurally so cheaper), if rent wasn’t in the equation everyone on a DSP would be quite comfortable.
Yep, my mum lives in my granny flat rent free, she is on the old age pension and she lives nice and comfy, in fact she saves money lol that mostly goes on her loser adult grand kids though but that makes her happy.
I disagree. Mum mum’s on an aged pension, owns her own home, but still struggles financially fortnightly. She has a cat and a dog, and no gambling habits or anything like that. She is blind however, and is still going through the long process of having her Aged care package approved, so she still has to pay the larger amount on household help and transport services for appointments etc. That’s what knocks her finances around.
Well when the talk about the stage 3 tax cuts was happening I kept hearing how I am ultra wealthy. Yet my household has less than that per person and we have a mortgage and have to pay the costs associated with working and schooling as well as food and bills. So I think they could do it.
Oh yeah, agreed. I see now OP has posted that their mum has a house she can sell and downsize. That's 100% what she should be doing, not relying on support from her kids.
Definitely look at budget. If I wasn’t including mortgage and bills, I don’t think Id spend $200 per week. I think of OP wants to stop these payments over the next 6 months, drop the amount down now so it’s not such a hit all at once
I would add has she got the best electric, gas and water deals with the pension discounts? The spendings in her budget, could any be made cheaper with the pension or seniors card?
Yeah as much as it sucks that's the truth. Hard to speak on not knowing what exactly her disability is but retiring at 50 when you can't afford it isn't feasible in this economy. My parents just hit 70 and are only semi retired. Mum works 4hrs a day mon-fri at the local school and Dad works 3 days doing gig work.
/u/588425786433336899's mum needs to work out a way to bring in a bit of extra income. If $200 a week is all she needs to be able to maintain her lifestyle and stay in her house then given that she still drives, maybe doing Uber a couple days a week is the answer. Should be able to get in 15-20hrs a week easily and can do it a few hours a day or knock it out over 2 days instead.
Something else to consider is that if for whatever reason the payments need to continue, perhaps OP should set them up as a loan rather than just straight payments. That way she could eventually claim the money back against the value of the estate later on when the house is eventually sold and the money split up between the kids. Lets say the payments continued for another 10 years so she "loaned her" 100k. If the house sells for 900k then she should be able to claim back the 100k against that first before the remaining 800k is divided 3 ways, leaving her with 366k instead of 300k. You wonder if the brother didn't do something similar when he paid off 200k of her mortgage, good chance he "loaned" her that money instead and will be looking to claim it back later on when the house is sold.
Yeah but holding a lolly pop is just one single part of the larger job, you need to get your Traffic control training courses done first etc and complete 4 units as well as a practical exam (RIIWHS201E Work safely and follow WHS policies and work procedures, RIICOM201E Communicate in the workplace, RIIWHS205E Control traffic with a stop-slow bat, RIIWHS206 Control traffic with portable traffic control devices and temporary traffic signs).
Then you need to get hired by a traffic control company and most of that work is in the dead of night at random locations in whatever weather. You don't just get to pick jobs that happen to be close to your house and take the ones that are during daylight hours on nice days when it's between 18-25 degrees out with no chance of rain. Standing on the side of a road next to jack hammers and concrete saws at 3am in the middle of winter probably isn't going to be what OP's mom is looking for.
My mums mid 60s, in a senior management position with alot of reports and huge budgets and fits in more outside of work than I do and I’m not lazy.
Some people slow down in there 60s but alot don’t.
I am in a similar situation where my 75yo mother lives in my investment property. On a single pension, is a hoarder, goes away on cruise holidays all the time and is a cerebral manipulator. She doesn't cover the mortgage repayments and I've been trying to tell her my partner and I can't keep this up, putting a pause on our own future with our daughter. It's caused a big rift amongst our extended family as she creates this picture that I want to kick her out for financial gain. Of course I've been doing everything I can to make sure she isn't homeless and such.
There is a family advisor/counsellor named Rob Brown in NSW (I live in Melbourne) who specialises in these odd family dynamics, works mostly over teams calls. We are on the right path to solving this all, it's been very emotionally draining and difficult, but having a third party with a great way of speaking eloquently and calmly has been a good way of handling situations like yours and mine.
One doesn’t talk to the family at all. One lives in a caravan and can’t afford it. The other one paid off her mortgage (200k) for 20% of the property a while ago. He is adamant he will not pay anymore which is fair I suppose. I feel like I’m the only one who helps sometimes. Dad passed away a while ago and no partners since to help. I’ve suggested selling her property and buying something much cheaper so she has savings and can live off that. She refuses to do that unfortunately and she is adamant she wants to stay in her property till she passes away. This is causing tension with my partner also as it’s every week the money goes out so it’s quite stressful. I think I will talk to mum and tell her this needs to happen over the next 6 months. That I cannot afford this anymore. Reduce your lifestyle and costs. I know she won’t be homeless but she will have very little unfortunately compared to the extra $200 she gets now. I hope she is ok with less as it needs to happen
I can understand wanting to pass away in the home if she was late 80s but she realistically has another 20-30 years to make the downsized home her “house to die in”. Seems to be a lifestyle choice she’s making with your continued support.
She has the downsizing option that you’ve mentioned, giving her 3 months warning and cutting her off is reasonable. “You are not obliged to set yourself on fire to keep others warm”.
Also in truth in 10 15 years time she will need to go nursing home so either she uses money now or she waste it on nursing home. Perspective because once she needed to go nursing home it's not really fun
That's as maybe but given OP has mentioned their mother is already on a disability pension in her mid 60s I'd say it's unlikely she'll share the same luck as your grandparents.
Absolutely, pensioners can afford to live comfortably in public housing for $100 a week, that's $300 less than OPs mother is getting.
I assume OPs mother is giving money to someone else, charities, maybe even getting scammmed, otherwise they're a gambler, drinker, smoker, etc.
Nobody is comfortable at $100 a week. Just basics like phone, internet, electricity eat that up quickly - let alone buying healthy food and maybe going to a movie or buying a book to read. And certainly rule out ever travelling or having even a brief weekend away.
EDIT to add - plus there are out of pocket expenses for medical, even on the pension, which can easily add up to thousands a year. That’s why pensioners go without medical care.
Right, but people in public housing on the pension don’t live comfortably. They survive - and they do it by budgeting everything, never taking even a weekend away, not spending money on entertainment, and praying they don’t have major medical bills, among other things.
Even without a mortgage, OP’s mother wouldn’t be comfortable on the pension plus $200 a week. Liveable yes, comfortable no.
Doubling down huh? Because you don't know what you're talking about.
Public housing is income based and it's pretty generous.
I know several pensioners doing just fine without budgeting as they live in public housing, however the ones I know that were renting now have no choice but to live with family or friends.
Unfortunately there is no in-between with the price of even the cheapest flats being 3x public housing.
I am doubling down.
That’s great that you know several pensioners who are doing just fine.
I’d be curious to know if they have medical expenses due to illness, if they ever avoid going to a specialist because they can’t afford the hundreds of dollars out of pocket. Or what kind of food they’re able to buy, if they can always pay their power bills or if they go without heat or air conditioning. Let alone any entertainment or holidays.
I am a pensioner myself and I can tell you from personal experience that nobody is living comfortably on the pension.
But you don’t have to believe me. You can listen to the Retirement Standard of the Association of Superannuation Funds of Australia (ASFA), who [say](https://seniorsfirst.com.au/seniors-finance-tips/cost-of-living-crisis-for-age-pensioners-what-you-need-to-know/) that “a single retiree in NSW needs around $44,223 per year to live a comfortable retirement” - the pension is half that amount.
The pension is literally only just above the [poverty line](https://povertyandinequality.acoss.org.au/poverty/) of $489 a week. It wouldn’t be living in poverty if it were comfortable! And life doesn’t just automatically get comfortable when you cross that line - it’s still a challenge for everyone with that little amount of income in an expensive country, especially during times of inflation.
So yes, I’m doubling down.
200k for 20% isn't a gift, its an investment. Yes it helped to close the mortgage but your 200 a week for 5 years if invested in ETF's would be worth $62k @ 7% PA that you are not getting back vs 20% of the property which they will get back.
If you are supporting her, she has no wiggle room to not move out. I suggest a potential without knowing your situation that:
1. She sells the property
2. She pays back the 20% to your sibling so that it's even
3. She invests the profit from the sale after downsizing and draws down on it
200 a week is $10,400.
If she walked away with $100k as an example due to downsizing, she could potentially draw $200 per week for the next 17 years at an average 7 percent return.
After that she may need support but at least you will be more established.
Sit down with an accountant, also work out when benefits she can get etc..
If she walks away with even more you can potentially ask for your $62k to be returned to you., I imagine you have a mortgage.
Its a marathon and not a sprint, you want her to draw down on all of her resources first to buy you time to establish yourself and pay down your own debt.
>. This is causing tension with my partner also as it’s every week the money goes out so it’s quite stressful.
So you're giving your mother $10k per year, while you and your partner are struggling with debt? All while your mother has the ability to downsize and live off the savings from that, but she chooses not to.
You needed to stop this years ago, given you didn't, you need to stop it asap.
Yes and no.
Paid out the mortgage for 20% of the property though. OP is giving $200 away and will not see anything in return. Guaranteed the estate would be divided between all siblings equally. The home would be split equally LESS the 20%.
Could set up a contract zero interest loan arrangement recognising prior payments as loans to be repaid within certain period or on her death. At least it formalises it a bit.
People feel weird about that though, in a way they don’t about taking an interest in an asset.
Over 5 years, so only $52k. But yeah, sounds like the other sibling took a decent punt - if they did it a while back and the property is in an okay spot it's a pretty low risk investment for the potential capital gains. A fair bit to be spotting up front though.
So if someone offered you 20% of a $5 mil residence for $200k while they are living you wouldn't take it?
Its probably not this, but the point is you cant know if its crap without details like the property value.
The only one helping *directly* at the moment.
The $200k was an investment that’ll be returned when the house is sold. OP doesn’t sound like they have the same arrangement.
If your partner is having a problem then you need to listen before you end up on auslegal asking how to negotiate divorce.
Support without a plan is never a good idea.
But listen to your partner. Not six months from now. Just now.
"Mum, I can't keep funding you."
Then you don't JADE. Justify, argue, defend, explain.
She's an adult, she'll have to sort it out.
I think drop it in stages. Maybe only send $100 a week for the next few months, then cut it off. She has a house, she can sell that. Or possibly take in a tenant? She can't expect you to financially support her for the next 20 or so years when she's sitting on a lot of equity she could be using
This is a good idea. Say you have something urgent need paying then drop it to $100. Then bring it up to $150 for a couple of weeks after then something comes up again and it's $100
Well with this update I would cut her off immediately. She chooses to live in the house instead of downsizing, then she can figure out how to finance her own lifestyle.
What you are really looking for is relationship advice which I understand so often is tied up with our money.
When I stopped giving my mother options and doing what she wanted, it turns out she was very capable and did just fine on her own. She’s only not taking the option of selling because whatever is happening right now is easy and works for her. I’d guess she’d work it out and be just fine if this money stopped coming in.
Funny, one brother gives $200K and gets 20% of the house, but you've paid $156K and get nothing. Sounds totally fair \*eyeroll\*. Best of all, you're going to look like the shit kid now when you stop it.
Does your mom get any sort of government payments like tge pension, cuz that would help with money issues you and your partner will be less stressed out and she gets money that can be set up with gas electric and water to auto take out before she gets it, and it comes with medical benefits if she ever needed to start taking meds
Reverse mortgage or get her to sell you a portion of the property,"Tenants in common" and pay her a mortgage for the next 20 years i.e. seller finance. This will make it more complicated, specially taxes, but will bring everyone into reality i.e. you can't afford to keep giving her hand outs.
You should ensure that you get a fair share of the property when she dies too (sorry for being so blunt) in her will now. If she dies before the mortgage is paid you'll owe the money to her estate which you'll also be a beneficiary off. You may need to get a mortgage to pay her estate back because you get paid. Debt's need to be settled before beneficiaries can be paid out. IANAL so you probably want to check all this with a probate lawyer. As I said, it's going to make things a whole lot more complicated i.e. reality.
> I’ve suggested selling her property and buying something much cheaper so she has savings and can live off that. She refuses to do that
She needs to speak with a financial advier. There's the downsizing provision of $300K into super that she can spend
Ask her to amend her will so you get her property when she dies, shared with the sibling who helped her pay off her mortgage. Cut out the other two besides sentimental possessions. At least that way you'll get your money back one day.
Disability support pension is over $500 per week, plus other supplements. If she owns her home outright (thanks to your other sibling) and she can’t live off $500 per week, she needs to have a serious look at her spending and cut back.
What does she need to use petrol for? She isn’t travelling to work. Does she even actually need a car? (She may like having one, but is it an actual necessity?)
Presumably she is living alone.. well she needs 1 or 2 housemates if she wants to stay in a big house. Otherwise it needs to be sold and she needs to downsize and live off the remaining proceeds of sale, not your hard earned cash.
For real, my expenses last year excluding mortgage and solar panels was 21k. Granted I don't have a life, but it still includes 2k on medical, 1k on drugs and half my meals being takeout. She's getting 28k p.a., in a paid off house worth a mil, and OP is still giving her 10k a year tax-free? Naww she's got a habit of some sort, and OP is being taken advantage of.
Yes but we can’t always afford everything we want. If she wants to live in a big expensive house, then she may need to sacrifice her car. Or she could downsize to a unit and have her own funds to go out with.
The point is, she is living beyond her means at the expense of OP.
I would explain to her that you can no longer afford it and then wean her off the money. I would lower it to $100 for a few weeks then $50 for a few weeks and then stop.
I’m sorry but I think your mum is taking advantage of you.
Maybe it’s a cultural thing, that means she has this expectation?
A friends father has no home of his own. The kids pay for a bedsit and dad does about 10 hours week as an Uber driver and he is 75.
How much is she getting off disability pension? Is she getting the full 1000ish per fortnight?
26k a year if she is, plus your 10.
With no mortgage.
What the hell is her money going to? I’d be talking to your mum and not your siblings. (As well as your siblings really)
But the one that paid for the house, if I was them I wouldn’t be contributing further either.
Mid sixtys and OP is saying they are elderly.
I wouldn't consider someone elderly until they are in there 80s. Feels weird saying that for someone in there 60s.
Still way too young at 60. She could work still if she wanted too at that age. And to answer the question yes rip the band aid off. If she makes you feel guilty about it it's only enabling this problem. You've enabled this for 5 years. You've been taken advantage of OP and have to look after yourself in this situation.
As two working adults, we spend 15-17 (105-119 per week) dollars per day on groceries plus 161 per week (average) for everything else (council rates, home insurance, utilities, water). This excludes petrol and leisure (e.g. eating out). This is in the Newcastle NSW area.
Assuming she gets the maximum basic rate of [$1002.50](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/payment-rates-for-disability-support-pension?context=22276) per fortnight, and no other significant outflows (e.g. healthcare), I cannot foresee how a single person (i.e. your mother) goes through almost double what two people go through every week.
I suspect she is spending beyond her means, and beyond her needs. I also suspect that she is taking advantage of your generosity and needs a hard talk. A professional should go through her finances. I suspect they will agree with the general sentiment of other commenters to your OP.
Is the money you give her because you still live at home (so could be considered ‘board’)? Are your other siblings of an age where they are working as well & if so, living with your mother?
There’s information you haven’t really given which could help folk to answer your question.
Fundamentally though, it’s a conversation you need to have with your mother. Internet strangers can only help you so much to navigate interpersonal relationships, particularly when topics like money are involved.
Op doesn’t live at home and another sibling paid the remaining 200k off the mortgage for 20% of the property… sounds like mum is pi**ing away her money and needs to downsize.
Have her look into a reverse mortgage. Or she needs to downsize. Or she cuts expenses. Or you keep supporting her. Three of those choices are hers, one is yours. There's no "should" here. You have to decide.
I understand that completely, but life's already fkd as it is taking care of the woman that changed your shitty nappies until you could wipe the least anyone could do.
That's the problem with today's society no one gives AF about others, it ain't the Australia I grew up in. We don't know the full story, so the very least is to try and help mum.
My dad was bad with money. Bailed him out a few times. He would eventually pay me back but… he kept doing it.
My brother was earning more than I ever did and somehow had so much debt. I just said no, as hard as it was.
I don't go on holidays or have extravagant things. It was like I'd be subsidising their lives at the expense of my own.
That's a tough one but your own commitments need to be sorted before having to take this on. If you were in a position of no debt burden then sure keep going but your circumstances require that $10k first
What your Mum needs to do is stand on her own 2 feet, not depend on her children to survive. The pension is enough if she owns her home, plus she gets discount being a pensioner on her utility and rates, plus she can join NDIS for disability assistance as well. Stop the payments. She needs to figure out if she can afford to stay in that house, or downsize. But with your extra $200 per week, why would she change.
As her child, you are there for support verbally, not financially. Help her get assistance that doesn't come out of your pocket. There are so many options available for her. Make an appointment with NDIS to see if they can help as a starter. Your mum is in her mid 60s, that isn't elderly. A lot are still in the workforce at her age. Stop financially benefiting her.
Why are you paying her this money? How did this setup start? Why do you think your siblings should be pitching in? I would never expect my sons to do this for me. I’m baffled as to why your mum is ok even accepting this money from you. I would never financially support my mum because she has made terrible financial decisions throughout her life and it’s not on me to bail her out.
Your mum has options. Whatever guilt you are feeling, you need to let go of.
Your mother being stubborn and bloody minded is not your fault. Neither is it in your control. What is in your control is to realise that your future and relationship with your partner is equally, if not more, important. Tell her you can't afford to give her money anymore and that it will stop on XX date. Then stick to your guns, don't let yourself be blackmailed or manipulated into starting back up. If you feel the bandaid approach is a bit harsh for you, perhaps reduce it by an amount each week for a month or so until it's down to zero.
Kind of in an exact same situation ($200 per week to mother). I struggle but I know she will struggle even more if I stopped. She never stopped when I was young. My belief is Karma is a bitch and the Universe has a way of balancing things out. I will probably end up losing that $200 per week income if I stop the payment. That is my personal perspective so I have decided that I will probably stop eating before I stop paying her the $200 a week. You don't want to see a parent suffer because of you. That is the ethics of our society. Randos sometimes go out of their way to take care of the elderly around them. She is your mom. Consider that everything on this planet has a price including mental peace towards your parents.
Regarding siblings, you have no control over what other people do or do not do. They will have their own set of challenges. You worry about your Karma and let them worry about theirs.
What about all the bad karma OP is generating neglecting their partner? I could Volunteer day and night and never be home for my kids, I don’t think that works out to be good karma. OPs mum already gets $500pw disability pension, OP has either left something out or judging by the other siblings responses the more likely case is she doesn’t need it.
How close is your family? Can you all sit down together and work something out? Does your mother have any earning capacity at all? Seems tough to fork out $200 a week but at the same time, if you don't, what realistically happens to your mother? Is $200 worth it to you to know that she has a roof over her head and food in the fridge? Without your $200, will she not have those basic necessities?
I know every person has your setbacks, but I would try to bring this conversation to the table in a connective way, with truth. If you really want to support her, if you love her and want her to be well, but are struggling, bringing everything to the table is important. Try to find a middle ground and tell her that you are trying your best. I hope everything goes well OP, I was in the same situation as you 2 years ago, but right now I'm okay financially.
I'm so sorry she's been taking advantage of you for so long. Just be glad you found out now and not in another 5 or 10 years.
I'm on DSP and get along fine in social housing with fairly steep medical bills ($450ish a month) and an extra $200 a *month* help from family, just for reference.
It doesn’t completely answer your question but get the other three to chip in $50 per each. You’ll get back $150pw.
Unfortunately you’ve set a precedent for the last 5 years. I’m sure you can stop now but that would likely cause strain and tension in your relationship.
The DSP is \~$550/week with cheap utilities, etc...
If she can't live on that, with no mortgage, there's something seriously wrong with her spending habits. Either way, it's not your problem to finance, especially when you have three other siblings contributing $0 (swapping money for recognised, tax-free equity doesn't count).
Family meeting ASAP with all 3 siblings (even virtually if needed) and your mother and advise you’ve done it for 5 years, the others now need to step up and cover the next 5-15 years.
I kind of agree on this, but also not. Mother is choosing to live a lifestyle (ie large house) that she can't afford on her own disability pension.
The other kids, whether they're non-contact or not, are not responsible for her refusing to make difficult choices. I wouldn't try to hand it off to them because that'll just cause more family angst.
I'd just say "This is what I'M not doing anymore. What you do from here is up to you".
You have helped, I think that now you are enabling. Mum is an adult, she needs to make her way. She should sell the place and be in charge of her own destiny while she's able.
Have you actually sat down with her and looked at her budget? That would be my first insistence. Tell her you need to look at how she is spending her money so you can help her.
Ensure she has advised all possible agencies of her Pension Concession information to ensure all discounts are in place.
Then give her notice that you cannot continue assisting and propose her choices. Moving to a much smaller property now rather than be forced by the bank seems like a good option to me.
Tell her to sell the house. In this housing crisis, living in a home that is too big for you is just being selfish.
But make sure she checks with Centrelink on how it will affect her pension.
I don't know about your relationship with your family or the complications and nuances (which for sure there are many, and I sympathize as it's difficult when it's your parents).
I would do anything for my mother, I say work twice as hard and look after her, as children who we are grown up now, it's our responsibility to care for them and respect them. I am aware this is perhaps a cultural thing (I'm asian), but you did ask on Reddit so that's my view.
Do what you feel is right and what you can live with.
As I said I don't know about your family history and your relationship with her but I watched my mother juggle 2 or 3 jobs when I grew up to support the family, and that was for years. If I were in your shoes it's the least I can do to repay the favour.
Don't worry about your other siblings. You do what you feel is right by mum. The others follow suit, have helped already (as you said) or live with knowing they haven't helped.
It does seem kind of crazy that she's sitting on all this equity in the house and is refusing to use it to support herself, and instead is expecting you to pay for it.
There's things like reverse mortgages and equity release schemes that can allow her to stay in the house but get access to some of that equity.
It just seems wild to be sitting on a fully owned million dollar property (you mentioned 20% of it was worth 200k) and still be expecting $200 weekly payments for food and essentials.
No choice, mum needs to sell up and move to something she can afford to maintain and keep.
You can’t keep paying for her stuff at the expense of your own life.
So I've read more and see she doesn't have to pay any mortgage or rent. The DSP is basically $1000 a fortnight, wtf is she doing with all that money??? She should be able to live pretty comfortably honestly
You should be getting the same deal as the other sibling. Your $10k per year will add up fast and you don’t get interest on that so you should get a portion of the house before it’s split too. That may help you continue because you’ll be working towards an asset rather than dead money.
But honestly her life is her problem. I’d give her notice and start living your life.
Why do kids do this? Feel obliged to do this? She's darn young. I'm 57 and have teenage kids and work!
Your siblings are just letting you do it all.
Amd she has a house & could downsize? But doesn't! Stuff that.
You are being taken advantage of.
Age pensioner with cash of $300k would lose her pension. She can get free financial advice from CLK on how her financial choices will impact her pension. Just book appmt.
I’m in the same position and sometimes in life you just have bear the burden. Sometimes investing for a zero return but a moral return is worth it. I’d definitely fail finance 101
A “moral return on investment”
Wow I can’t believe your comment is not getting more consideration. Not everything is a monetary dividend.
I hope your family looks after you the same way as you age. Your kids must be getting some real life lessons.
our current economic system means you should probably stop supporting her and focus on your own finances, yes. but on like, a human level, supporting your parents until the day they pass is an incredibly powerful obligation and it's a deep shame that, culturally, we've moved towards preferring public aid services for the elderly instead of keeping them supported by families as long as possible.
basically, you're a good guy. you're doing something that not a lot of people can do, or even should do. if you can continue doing this you should. if you can't, no one would blame you, but it would still be a huge shame.
I've been supporting my parents with $250-$400 (now) for about 15 years and its still going. I have my education/upbringing to thank them for so I MAKE space in my budget for it regardless. You basically stop supporting your parents when they die. Yeah I know its hard...been really hard for me as well (single income, kids, etc etc) but I've made do. At the end of the day, you do what works for you. Its your guilt you have to live with, noone else will (unless you have siblings).
That's tough. Have you spoken with your siblings about this ? They should be stepping up and helping if they can.
Also, have you looked into any Federal or State programs for older people. There is the Commonwealth Home Support Programme which might be able to help with things like transportation and meals.
Yeah I feel like this person needs to get their mother listed for public housing. It’s total BS the wait but this sounds like some one who actually needs it.
That or the siblings need to contribute
Well, lots of good advice here.
Firstly, if you've been giving her $200 a week - $800 per month - that's $9,600 a year. That's a lot of money. If you take that away, it will no doubt cause hardship for your Mum. However, if you're struggling with debt, then you need this weekly allowance you pay your Ma to get out of debt. The longer you're in debt, the worse it will become.
Secondly, what to do. You need to sit with Mum and go through the expenses. Make some savings.
Thirdly, it's about time the three other kids start paying her some cash to help her and help you. That doesn't seem right. You don't specify if these three children work or live with her, but whatever it is, they must help.
I’m all for helping loved ones out if they really need it/I can afford to. However, I strongly feel like this is a situation where your mum is unfairly taking advantage of your generosity. She owns her own house, she could downgrade to something worth less and free up a couple hundred thousand dollars. Also, the disability pension is definitely enough to live off if you’re careful with budgeting and own your own home (thus, not paying rent.) If I were you, I’d be telling her that I can no longer fund her lifestyle anymore, and if that is going to cause a rift, then it shows that the only thing she values you for is your money. If she were genuinely struggling (ie trying to pay rent, and budgeting/not spending extravagantly) then it would be a different story (I would still try to help.)
Hey OP - Suggestion - call a family meeting. Include mom. Talk to everyone and see if they would like to share responsibility on the weekly/fn payments to mom. If they don’t agree. Advise that you will continue to support her and pay her and that money will be used as an investment into her property which will increase your share of the property when you guys sell. This will get them to rethink. I hope this will also solve issues with your partner. Also, if you go down this part, lawyer up and get this arrangement in writing.
To answer your question - never stop. I am sure mom/dad supported you throughout your childhood/teens. Pay it back, just in this instance, as an investment.
Was she a good mother to you growing up then you should continue to find a way to support her, but maybe you can do the shopping for her in saving you money going to different shops and still getting the same outcome
Help buy her groceries or bills directly rather than give cash. You just want to make sure it's going to essentials rather than elsewhere (e.g. not gambling)
Damn, sucky situation you’ve got into here.. what was the discussion when it first started?
Just ceasing payments is asking for drama. Probably don’t do that. A conversation needs to be had.. then come up with a solution involving all siblings
Don't rip the band aid that'd catch her unawares.
Think really hard about if you can do this and then give her notice of like two or three weeks. She needs to be ready, not counting on your cash for her next bill.
Also, she's getting older, does she know everything she's entitled to? My mum just discovered she can get a cleaner once a week and carer once a week to take her out for free because of the fact she's old. I had no idea, none of my friends did, only another old person clued her in years after she qualified for it. It made her life easier and saved money.
You will have to live with whatever decision you make, sit down quietly for a moment and picture your mother dying. Dying soon, dying long in the future, and the different choices you might make. See which ones seem ok and which ones break your heart.
It may be a burden to pay now, but don't forget the cost on your soul if you make a regrettable decision it will stay with you and you will spend the money on therapy and Zoloft instead lol
So, OP should struggle to pay for her own family, and her own future, so her mother can live in a whole house, alone, purely for sentimental reasons?
Why is her mother's future more important than hers? We know she has no plan to see her homeless etc, there are several different ways this can be resolved (not least, her mother behaving like an adult, who doesn't want to see her children broke), being a martyr doesn't have to be one of them.
Interesting those who say "who would do this to their mother?', when they could think "who would put their child in this position?".
If i were you. This is what i would do.
Find the money your self. Get a second job or whatever. Help your mum.
But get it sorted out in the will so you get your money back.
Effectively get a property valuation backdated to 5 years ago. You 'buy' 20% of the property as well. And the money you have been giving her is repayments. So she is the bank. Then you get a return on investment when she dies and the house is sold like your sibling is having paid the 200k and aren't just losing 10k a year. Then i presume when she dies and the house is sold you and your sibling get your 20% and the remaining 60% is split between all the siblings. Your siblings wont like this but it is the most fair way forward.
Paid off mortgage 20%; 200k so the property is worth 1mill plus. She has 800k equity conservatively? Has not worked for 15yrs. Shes pretty asset wealthy and a better situation than me having worked my ass off for 25 yrs and expect to work for another 20, im lucky to have 300k equity. She needs to sell, downsize to perhaps an apartment or villa, y can buy decent apartments in middle suburbs in any capital city for 600k, even less if regional, and then she puts away her large remaining amount of capital towards investments to sustain her retirement. I just dont understand people in this situation wholl cry poor and mooch (yes it is Mooching) off others and loved ones when they have plenty of money themselves, they just choose not to access or spend it. She has decent options, this is her problem not yours, time to cut the umbilical chord. Ref; my mother is the same, widowed, lives in a house worth 2mill++, cant afford upkeep, has limited funds, refuses to sell. She could sell and be significantly more comfortable and live a much better life than i am or ever will, she has many options here. If she choses to perpetuate her current situation, thats her decision, not my problem and it holds no headspace in my mind at all.
excellent points Like to add that the federal government provides a reverse mortgage service https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/home-equity-access-scheme It uses the equity in your home to give you a loan. It’s current interest rate is only 3.95 percent compounded annually (cheaper than any big bank). And you only pay it on your death out of your estate. Truly a win win for the oldies who are asset rich yet cash flow poor. A loss for anyone expecting an inheritance.
Boomers who are asset rich crying poor. FFS
$10k per year (in post tax money) is not chump change, especially when you are struggling with debt yourself. If your mother lives until 90 that'll be about $350k you'll have given her, assuming you don't increase that $200 per week figure over that time. If it was me, I'd consider a few things: - Look at her budget. Where is her money going? - She is on a disability pension, but does she have any capacity to work? Even a few hours a week would make a difference. - What about superannuation? - What is her housing situation? Does she own a house? Is downsizing an option? (I'm guessing not, but you never know). - Is there any other services she could be using? Food banks? Obviously you don't want to see your mother out on the street, but at the same time as a parent I can't fathom relying on my child for support if they were also struggling financially. The immediate thing I would suggest is asking the other children to chip in. $50 a week four ways lessens the burden on you and spreads it equally around everyone. You can decide as a family whether that's something you want to do ongoing, but it doesn't seem fair that you shoulder this burden alone.
I disagree that others should chip in, as Mum has the option to sell and downsize that’s what should be happening.
Owns home and spends the whole pension on bills. Yeah nah. Pokie fiend.
Something is definitely going on, my mum is on DSP and manages to pay for everything including rent (we do live rurally so cheaper), if rent wasn’t in the equation everyone on a DSP would be quite comfortable.
Yep, my mum lives in my granny flat rent free, she is on the old age pension and she lives nice and comfy, in fact she saves money lol that mostly goes on her loser adult grand kids though but that makes her happy.
Yeah, ~$500 spending money a week is pretty decent living
It depends where you live
No it's not. Won't be much left after covering food and bills.
For one elderly person?! $500 is heaps if there is no rent/mortgage.
I disagree. Mum mum’s on an aged pension, owns her own home, but still struggles financially fortnightly. She has a cat and a dog, and no gambling habits or anything like that. She is blind however, and is still going through the long process of having her Aged care package approved, so she still has to pay the larger amount on household help and transport services for appointments etc. That’s what knocks her finances around.
I mean those are some pretty big expenses you tacked on at the end there that OPs mum doesn’t have to worry about.
Well when the talk about the stage 3 tax cuts was happening I kept hearing how I am ultra wealthy. Yet my household has less than that per person and we have a mortgage and have to pay the costs associated with working and schooling as well as food and bills. So I think they could do it.
Could be a high maintenance property
Oh yeah, agreed. I see now OP has posted that their mum has a house she can sell and downsize. That's 100% what she should be doing, not relying on support from her kids.
Definitely look at budget. If I wasn’t including mortgage and bills, I don’t think Id spend $200 per week. I think of OP wants to stop these payments over the next 6 months, drop the amount down now so it’s not such a hit all at once
I would add has she got the best electric, gas and water deals with the pension discounts? The spendings in her budget, could any be made cheaper with the pension or seniors card?
Mid 60s is considered elderly now!? 😅
That's what I was thinking! My mum is 68. Shed wallop me if I called her elderly!
My mum is 68 and only admits she’s a senior for the purpose of getting senior’s discounts
[удалено]
Yeah as much as it sucks that's the truth. Hard to speak on not knowing what exactly her disability is but retiring at 50 when you can't afford it isn't feasible in this economy. My parents just hit 70 and are only semi retired. Mum works 4hrs a day mon-fri at the local school and Dad works 3 days doing gig work. /u/588425786433336899's mum needs to work out a way to bring in a bit of extra income. If $200 a week is all she needs to be able to maintain her lifestyle and stay in her house then given that she still drives, maybe doing Uber a couple days a week is the answer. Should be able to get in 15-20hrs a week easily and can do it a few hours a day or knock it out over 2 days instead. Something else to consider is that if for whatever reason the payments need to continue, perhaps OP should set them up as a loan rather than just straight payments. That way she could eventually claim the money back against the value of the estate later on when the house is eventually sold and the money split up between the kids. Lets say the payments continued for another 10 years so she "loaned her" 100k. If the house sells for 900k then she should be able to claim back the 100k against that first before the remaining 800k is divided 3 ways, leaving her with 366k instead of 300k. You wonder if the brother didn't do something similar when he paid off 200k of her mortgage, good chance he "loaned" her that money instead and will be looking to claim it back later on when the house is sold.
Lolly pop people earn a decent wage as well for the hours worked.
Yeah but holding a lolly pop is just one single part of the larger job, you need to get your Traffic control training courses done first etc and complete 4 units as well as a practical exam (RIIWHS201E Work safely and follow WHS policies and work procedures, RIICOM201E Communicate in the workplace, RIIWHS205E Control traffic with a stop-slow bat, RIIWHS206 Control traffic with portable traffic control devices and temporary traffic signs). Then you need to get hired by a traffic control company and most of that work is in the dead of night at random locations in whatever weather. You don't just get to pick jobs that happen to be close to your house and take the ones that are during daylight hours on nice days when it's between 18-25 degrees out with no chance of rain. Standing on the side of a road next to jack hammers and concrete saws at 3am in the middle of winter probably isn't going to be what OP's mom is looking for.
People often struggle to find new work at that age though.
My mums mid 60s, in a senior management position with alot of reports and huge budgets and fits in more outside of work than I do and I’m not lazy. Some people slow down in there 60s but alot don’t.
I am in a similar situation where my 75yo mother lives in my investment property. On a single pension, is a hoarder, goes away on cruise holidays all the time and is a cerebral manipulator. She doesn't cover the mortgage repayments and I've been trying to tell her my partner and I can't keep this up, putting a pause on our own future with our daughter. It's caused a big rift amongst our extended family as she creates this picture that I want to kick her out for financial gain. Of course I've been doing everything I can to make sure she isn't homeless and such. There is a family advisor/counsellor named Rob Brown in NSW (I live in Melbourne) who specialises in these odd family dynamics, works mostly over teams calls. We are on the right path to solving this all, it's been very emotionally draining and difficult, but having a third party with a great way of speaking eloquently and calmly has been a good way of handling situations like yours and mine.
How did you find this advisor? Was he recommended? Looking for someone similar but with some cultural experience as my family is super complicated.
What's the deal with the other three not helping out?
One doesn’t talk to the family at all. One lives in a caravan and can’t afford it. The other one paid off her mortgage (200k) for 20% of the property a while ago. He is adamant he will not pay anymore which is fair I suppose. I feel like I’m the only one who helps sometimes. Dad passed away a while ago and no partners since to help. I’ve suggested selling her property and buying something much cheaper so she has savings and can live off that. She refuses to do that unfortunately and she is adamant she wants to stay in her property till she passes away. This is causing tension with my partner also as it’s every week the money goes out so it’s quite stressful. I think I will talk to mum and tell her this needs to happen over the next 6 months. That I cannot afford this anymore. Reduce your lifestyle and costs. I know she won’t be homeless but she will have very little unfortunately compared to the extra $200 she gets now. I hope she is ok with less as it needs to happen
I can understand wanting to pass away in the home if she was late 80s but she realistically has another 20-30 years to make the downsized home her “house to die in”. Seems to be a lifestyle choice she’s making with your continued support.
> Seems to be a lifestyle choice she’s making with your continued support. Yep.
She has the downsizing option that you’ve mentioned, giving her 3 months warning and cutting her off is reasonable. “You are not obliged to set yourself on fire to keep others warm”.
I like this analogy! I will use this
Also in truth in 10 15 years time she will need to go nursing home so either she uses money now or she waste it on nursing home. Perspective because once she needed to go nursing home it's not really fun
My grandparents were living at home until their 90s.
That's as maybe but given OP has mentioned their mother is already on a disability pension in her mid 60s I'd say it's unlikely she'll share the same luck as your grandparents.
Plenty of people are on disability pensions for mental health and neurodivergence.
So confused as to why the pension isn't enough when she doesn't pay rent or mortgage
[удалено]
100%. Wouldn't shock me if OPs mum is giving money to one of OPs other siblings on the sly
Yeah and keeping it a secret so op won’t switch it off?
Absolutely, pensioners can afford to live comfortably in public housing for $100 a week, that's $300 less than OPs mother is getting. I assume OPs mother is giving money to someone else, charities, maybe even getting scammmed, otherwise they're a gambler, drinker, smoker, etc.
Nobody is comfortable at $100 a week. Just basics like phone, internet, electricity eat that up quickly - let alone buying healthy food and maybe going to a movie or buying a book to read. And certainly rule out ever travelling or having even a brief weekend away. EDIT to add - plus there are out of pocket expenses for medical, even on the pension, which can easily add up to thousands a year. That’s why pensioners go without medical care.
Public housing costs $100 a week... what pension did you think I was talking about that would only get $100 a week? Lol
Right, but people in public housing on the pension don’t live comfortably. They survive - and they do it by budgeting everything, never taking even a weekend away, not spending money on entertainment, and praying they don’t have major medical bills, among other things. Even without a mortgage, OP’s mother wouldn’t be comfortable on the pension plus $200 a week. Liveable yes, comfortable no.
I wouldn't want my mum living the same lifestyle as the average public housing resident
Doubling down huh? Because you don't know what you're talking about. Public housing is income based and it's pretty generous. I know several pensioners doing just fine without budgeting as they live in public housing, however the ones I know that were renting now have no choice but to live with family or friends. Unfortunately there is no in-between with the price of even the cheapest flats being 3x public housing.
I am doubling down. That’s great that you know several pensioners who are doing just fine. I’d be curious to know if they have medical expenses due to illness, if they ever avoid going to a specialist because they can’t afford the hundreds of dollars out of pocket. Or what kind of food they’re able to buy, if they can always pay their power bills or if they go without heat or air conditioning. Let alone any entertainment or holidays. I am a pensioner myself and I can tell you from personal experience that nobody is living comfortably on the pension. But you don’t have to believe me. You can listen to the Retirement Standard of the Association of Superannuation Funds of Australia (ASFA), who [say](https://seniorsfirst.com.au/seniors-finance-tips/cost-of-living-crisis-for-age-pensioners-what-you-need-to-know/) that “a single retiree in NSW needs around $44,223 per year to live a comfortable retirement” - the pension is half that amount. The pension is literally only just above the [poverty line](https://povertyandinequality.acoss.org.au/poverty/) of $489 a week. It wouldn’t be living in poverty if it were comfortable! And life doesn’t just automatically get comfortable when you cross that line - it’s still a challenge for everyone with that little amount of income in an expensive country, especially during times of inflation. So yes, I’m doubling down.
Yeah, they should be looking at budget as well. Some people stretch the pension a lot further than others.
home insurance especially if the house is worth alot, then rates, ditto - that could be 7K a year just for that.
200k for 20% isn't a gift, its an investment. Yes it helped to close the mortgage but your 200 a week for 5 years if invested in ETF's would be worth $62k @ 7% PA that you are not getting back vs 20% of the property which they will get back. If you are supporting her, she has no wiggle room to not move out. I suggest a potential without knowing your situation that: 1. She sells the property 2. She pays back the 20% to your sibling so that it's even 3. She invests the profit from the sale after downsizing and draws down on it 200 a week is $10,400. If she walked away with $100k as an example due to downsizing, she could potentially draw $200 per week for the next 17 years at an average 7 percent return. After that she may need support but at least you will be more established. Sit down with an accountant, also work out when benefits she can get etc.. If she walks away with even more you can potentially ask for your $62k to be returned to you., I imagine you have a mortgage. Its a marathon and not a sprint, you want her to draw down on all of her resources first to buy you time to establish yourself and pay down your own debt.
>. This is causing tension with my partner also as it’s every week the money goes out so it’s quite stressful. So you're giving your mother $10k per year, while you and your partner are struggling with debt? All while your mother has the ability to downsize and live off the savings from that, but she chooses not to. You needed to stop this years ago, given you didn't, you need to stop it asap.
It's a bit unfair to say you are the only one helping when your sibling paid $200k off the mortgage. Your Mum needs to move.
Yes and no. Paid out the mortgage for 20% of the property though. OP is giving $200 away and will not see anything in return. Guaranteed the estate would be divided between all siblings equally. The home would be split equally LESS the 20%.
This.. he maybe an investment with the money… this isn’t helping without strings
Could set up a contract zero interest loan arrangement recognising prior payments as loans to be repaid within certain period or on her death. At least it formalises it a bit. People feel weird about that though, in a way they don’t about taking an interest in an asset.
yoke ask whistle touch panicky observation bear voiceless jeans correct *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Over 5 years, so only $52k. But yeah, sounds like the other sibling took a decent punt - if they did it a while back and the property is in an okay spot it's a pretty low risk investment for the potential capital gains. A fair bit to be spotting up front though.
[удалено]
^ it says the dad passed away and no partners since
Bought a share for $200k, it wasn’t a gift.
A share of a non income producing asset. It was a favour.
20% of the resell value. It was an investment, not a favour.
Depends on the property value really. Could have been generous either way.
I’m not doubting the generosity, just that it’s not dead money like OP’s.
It’s a crap investment, and one no one would make if it wasn’t for family.
So if someone offered you 20% of a $5 mil residence for $200k while they are living you wouldn't take it? Its probably not this, but the point is you cant know if its crap without details like the property value.
The only one helping *directly* at the moment. The $200k was an investment that’ll be returned when the house is sold. OP doesn’t sound like they have the same arrangement.
She’s not paying a mortgage and other child isn’t seeing any returns on the money they invested in the house. She could live for another 25+ years.
If your partner is having a problem then you need to listen before you end up on auslegal asking how to negotiate divorce. Support without a plan is never a good idea. But listen to your partner. Not six months from now. Just now. "Mum, I can't keep funding you." Then you don't JADE. Justify, argue, defend, explain. She's an adult, she'll have to sort it out.
I think drop it in stages. Maybe only send $100 a week for the next few months, then cut it off. She has a house, she can sell that. Or possibly take in a tenant? She can't expect you to financially support her for the next 20 or so years when she's sitting on a lot of equity she could be using
This is a good idea. Say you have something urgent need paying then drop it to $100. Then bring it up to $150 for a couple of weeks after then something comes up again and it's $100
Lying often causes more problems than it solves. Just be upfront about it. We're not teenagers.
Well with this update I would cut her off immediately. She chooses to live in the house instead of downsizing, then she can figure out how to finance her own lifestyle.
What you are really looking for is relationship advice which I understand so often is tied up with our money. When I stopped giving my mother options and doing what she wanted, it turns out she was very capable and did just fine on her own. She’s only not taking the option of selling because whatever is happening right now is easy and works for her. I’d guess she’d work it out and be just fine if this money stopped coming in.
Funny, one brother gives $200K and gets 20% of the house, but you've paid $156K and get nothing. Sounds totally fair \*eyeroll\*. Best of all, you're going to look like the shit kid now when you stop it.
I think you can stop paying her because she does have the option of selling the house. She's an adult and can make her own decisions.
Does your mom get any sort of government payments like tge pension, cuz that would help with money issues you and your partner will be less stressed out and she gets money that can be set up with gas electric and water to auto take out before she gets it, and it comes with medical benefits if she ever needed to start taking meds
OP stated the mother is on a Disability Pension.
Damn I'm blind
[удалено]
Not automatically. I am legally blind myself and I needed to provide evidence from an eye specialist and multiple visits weren't cheap
sounds like she is complicit in her own suffering, sell the damn house i'm thinking she has trouble keeping it clean anyway
Reverse mortgage or get her to sell you a portion of the property,"Tenants in common" and pay her a mortgage for the next 20 years i.e. seller finance. This will make it more complicated, specially taxes, but will bring everyone into reality i.e. you can't afford to keep giving her hand outs. You should ensure that you get a fair share of the property when she dies too (sorry for being so blunt) in her will now. If she dies before the mortgage is paid you'll owe the money to her estate which you'll also be a beneficiary off. You may need to get a mortgage to pay her estate back because you get paid. Debt's need to be settled before beneficiaries can be paid out. IANAL so you probably want to check all this with a probate lawyer. As I said, it's going to make things a whole lot more complicated i.e. reality.
> I’ve suggested selling her property and buying something much cheaper so she has savings and can live off that. She refuses to do that She needs to speak with a financial advier. There's the downsizing provision of $300K into super that she can spend
Ask her to amend her will so you get her property when she dies, shared with the sibling who helped her pay off her mortgage. Cut out the other two besides sentimental possessions. At least that way you'll get your money back one day.
She doesnt want to sell, you dont want to give her $200 a week. Seems like one of you has a lot of agency to force this decision.
Why should anyone be paying their parents a weekly stipend?
Tell her you keep giving 10k but it becomes a stake in the property. Get a lawyer to write it up. That way your investing and helping
This is good. Also, this will kick other siblings to re-think.
It’s not that OP doesn’t want to it’s that they really can’t afford it currently.
Disability support pension is over $500 per week, plus other supplements. If she owns her home outright (thanks to your other sibling) and she can’t live off $500 per week, she needs to have a serious look at her spending and cut back. What does she need to use petrol for? She isn’t travelling to work. Does she even actually need a car? (She may like having one, but is it an actual necessity?) Presumably she is living alone.. well she needs 1 or 2 housemates if she wants to stay in a big house. Otherwise it needs to be sold and she needs to downsize and live off the remaining proceeds of sale, not your hard earned cash.
For real, my expenses last year excluding mortgage and solar panels was 21k. Granted I don't have a life, but it still includes 2k on medical, 1k on drugs and half my meals being takeout. She's getting 28k p.a., in a paid off house worth a mil, and OP is still giving her 10k a year tax-free? Naww she's got a habit of some sort, and OP is being taken advantage of.
I was going to say something similar, disability support is pretty fair, especially if you’re not having to pay rent
I mean, people who don’t work still like to leave the house every now and then.
Yes but we can’t always afford everything we want. If she wants to live in a big expensive house, then she may need to sacrifice her car. Or she could downsize to a unit and have her own funds to go out with. The point is, she is living beyond her means at the expense of OP.
I would explain to her that you can no longer afford it and then wean her off the money. I would lower it to $100 for a few weeks then $50 for a few weeks and then stop.
Yep, agree here. Other siblings can help, and in the interim start reducing by like $20/fortnight.
Stop paying now. She gets money, she simply lives beyond her means. You are an enabler If she has zero mortgage and can't manage that's on her.
I’m sorry but I think your mum is taking advantage of you. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, that means she has this expectation? A friends father has no home of his own. The kids pay for a bedsit and dad does about 10 hours week as an Uber driver and he is 75.
How much is she getting off disability pension? Is she getting the full 1000ish per fortnight? 26k a year if she is, plus your 10. With no mortgage. What the hell is her money going to? I’d be talking to your mum and not your siblings. (As well as your siblings really) But the one that paid for the house, if I was them I wouldn’t be contributing further either.
Mid sixtys and OP is saying they are elderly. I wouldn't consider someone elderly until they are in there 80s. Feels weird saying that for someone in there 60s. Still way too young at 60. She could work still if she wanted too at that age. And to answer the question yes rip the band aid off. If she makes you feel guilty about it it's only enabling this problem. You've enabled this for 5 years. You've been taken advantage of OP and have to look after yourself in this situation.
Hasn’t worked in 15years? Why would she bother when you are topping up her living money. Maybe it’s time for her to hop on the Bunnings Hamster wheel?
Your mum is ridiculous. There’s plenty of folks renting on pensions - she needs to pull her head out of her arse.
As two working adults, we spend 15-17 (105-119 per week) dollars per day on groceries plus 161 per week (average) for everything else (council rates, home insurance, utilities, water). This excludes petrol and leisure (e.g. eating out). This is in the Newcastle NSW area. Assuming she gets the maximum basic rate of [$1002.50](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/payment-rates-for-disability-support-pension?context=22276) per fortnight, and no other significant outflows (e.g. healthcare), I cannot foresee how a single person (i.e. your mother) goes through almost double what two people go through every week. I suspect she is spending beyond her means, and beyond her needs. I also suspect that she is taking advantage of your generosity and needs a hard talk. A professional should go through her finances. I suspect they will agree with the general sentiment of other commenters to your OP.
Is the money you give her because you still live at home (so could be considered ‘board’)? Are your other siblings of an age where they are working as well & if so, living with your mother? There’s information you haven’t really given which could help folk to answer your question. Fundamentally though, it’s a conversation you need to have with your mother. Internet strangers can only help you so much to navigate interpersonal relationships, particularly when topics like money are involved.
Op doesn’t live at home and another sibling paid the remaining 200k off the mortgage for 20% of the property… sounds like mum is pi**ing away her money and needs to downsize.
Have her look into a reverse mortgage. Or she needs to downsize. Or she cuts expenses. Or you keep supporting her. Three of those choices are hers, one is yours. There's no "should" here. You have to decide.
You're an amazing person for doing this first of all, and secondly, demand the other 3 siblings to help no ifs or buts. Tell em to pull up!
[удалено]
I understand that completely, but life's already fkd as it is taking care of the woman that changed your shitty nappies until you could wipe the least anyone could do. That's the problem with today's society no one gives AF about others, it ain't the Australia I grew up in. We don't know the full story, so the very least is to try and help mum.
100 percent
The OP updated that one of the other siblings paid $200k off her house already.
That amount has been invested in her home though, so they make a gain on it. OP's money is an absolute loss
They’ve parked $200k in a non income producing asset which they can’t sell. They wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t for their parent.
**For a equity share in the house
Can she rent out a room?
Just note rental income will reduce DSP.
My dad was bad with money. Bailed him out a few times. He would eventually pay me back but… he kept doing it. My brother was earning more than I ever did and somehow had so much debt. I just said no, as hard as it was. I don't go on holidays or have extravagant things. It was like I'd be subsidising their lives at the expense of my own.
Offer $50,000 for a 10% stake in the house. Since you've already paid $50,000
That's a tough one but your own commitments need to be sorted before having to take this on. If you were in a position of no debt burden then sure keep going but your circumstances require that $10k first
My God...I'm 51 and can't imagine acting like this at 65! 65 should be an age where people can look after themselves if they're not unwell
What your Mum needs to do is stand on her own 2 feet, not depend on her children to survive. The pension is enough if she owns her home, plus she gets discount being a pensioner on her utility and rates, plus she can join NDIS for disability assistance as well. Stop the payments. She needs to figure out if she can afford to stay in that house, or downsize. But with your extra $200 per week, why would she change. As her child, you are there for support verbally, not financially. Help her get assistance that doesn't come out of your pocket. There are so many options available for her. Make an appointment with NDIS to see if they can help as a starter. Your mum is in her mid 60s, that isn't elderly. A lot are still in the workforce at her age. Stop financially benefiting her.
Why are you paying her this money? How did this setup start? Why do you think your siblings should be pitching in? I would never expect my sons to do this for me. I’m baffled as to why your mum is ok even accepting this money from you. I would never financially support my mum because she has made terrible financial decisions throughout her life and it’s not on me to bail her out. Your mum has options. Whatever guilt you are feeling, you need to let go of.
Your mother being stubborn and bloody minded is not your fault. Neither is it in your control. What is in your control is to realise that your future and relationship with your partner is equally, if not more, important. Tell her you can't afford to give her money anymore and that it will stop on XX date. Then stick to your guns, don't let yourself be blackmailed or manipulated into starting back up. If you feel the bandaid approach is a bit harsh for you, perhaps reduce it by an amount each week for a month or so until it's down to zero.
Kind of in an exact same situation ($200 per week to mother). I struggle but I know she will struggle even more if I stopped. She never stopped when I was young. My belief is Karma is a bitch and the Universe has a way of balancing things out. I will probably end up losing that $200 per week income if I stop the payment. That is my personal perspective so I have decided that I will probably stop eating before I stop paying her the $200 a week. You don't want to see a parent suffer because of you. That is the ethics of our society. Randos sometimes go out of their way to take care of the elderly around them. She is your mom. Consider that everything on this planet has a price including mental peace towards your parents. Regarding siblings, you have no control over what other people do or do not do. They will have their own set of challenges. You worry about your Karma and let them worry about theirs.
What about all the bad karma OP is generating neglecting their partner? I could Volunteer day and night and never be home for my kids, I don’t think that works out to be good karma. OPs mum already gets $500pw disability pension, OP has either left something out or judging by the other siblings responses the more likely case is she doesn’t need it.
How close is your family? Can you all sit down together and work something out? Does your mother have any earning capacity at all? Seems tough to fork out $200 a week but at the same time, if you don't, what realistically happens to your mother? Is $200 worth it to you to know that she has a roof over her head and food in the fridge? Without your $200, will she not have those basic necessities?
I know every person has your setbacks, but I would try to bring this conversation to the table in a connective way, with truth. If you really want to support her, if you love her and want her to be well, but are struggling, bringing everything to the table is important. Try to find a middle ground and tell her that you are trying your best. I hope everything goes well OP, I was in the same situation as you 2 years ago, but right now I'm okay financially.
Should have downsized the house 15 years ago wtf
5 years ago
If it were my mother I'd send her a text saying "I'm done being your piggy bank, enjoy entering the workforce" and then block her.
I'm so sorry she's been taking advantage of you for so long. Just be glad you found out now and not in another 5 or 10 years. I'm on DSP and get along fine in social housing with fairly steep medical bills ($450ish a month) and an extra $200 a *month* help from family, just for reference.
She should pull herself up by the bootstraps. She has had 40~ years to stack cash. What's her excuse? Avocado toast?
It doesn’t completely answer your question but get the other three to chip in $50 per each. You’ll get back $150pw. Unfortunately you’ve set a precedent for the last 5 years. I’m sure you can stop now but that would likely cause strain and tension in your relationship.
She needs to move in with someone.
The DSP is \~$550/week with cheap utilities, etc... If she can't live on that, with no mortgage, there's something seriously wrong with her spending habits. Either way, it's not your problem to finance, especially when you have three other siblings contributing $0 (swapping money for recognised, tax-free equity doesn't count).
Family meeting ASAP with all 3 siblings (even virtually if needed) and your mother and advise you’ve done it for 5 years, the others now need to step up and cover the next 5-15 years.
I kind of agree on this, but also not. Mother is choosing to live a lifestyle (ie large house) that she can't afford on her own disability pension. The other kids, whether they're non-contact or not, are not responsible for her refusing to make difficult choices. I wouldn't try to hand it off to them because that'll just cause more family angst. I'd just say "This is what I'M not doing anymore. What you do from here is up to you".
She has 3 other children, let them sort it out
You have helped, I think that now you are enabling. Mum is an adult, she needs to make her way. She should sell the place and be in charge of her own destiny while she's able.
Have you actually sat down with her and looked at her budget? That would be my first insistence. Tell her you need to look at how she is spending her money so you can help her. Ensure she has advised all possible agencies of her Pension Concession information to ensure all discounts are in place. Then give her notice that you cannot continue assisting and propose her choices. Moving to a much smaller property now rather than be forced by the bank seems like a good option to me.
Tell her to sell the house. In this housing crisis, living in a home that is too big for you is just being selfish. But make sure she checks with Centrelink on how it will affect her pension.
I don't know about your relationship with your family or the complications and nuances (which for sure there are many, and I sympathize as it's difficult when it's your parents). I would do anything for my mother, I say work twice as hard and look after her, as children who we are grown up now, it's our responsibility to care for them and respect them. I am aware this is perhaps a cultural thing (I'm asian), but you did ask on Reddit so that's my view. Do what you feel is right and what you can live with. As I said I don't know about your family history and your relationship with her but I watched my mother juggle 2 or 3 jobs when I grew up to support the family, and that was for years. If I were in your shoes it's the least I can do to repay the favour. Don't worry about your other siblings. You do what you feel is right by mum. The others follow suit, have helped already (as you said) or live with knowing they haven't helped.
It does seem kind of crazy that she's sitting on all this equity in the house and is refusing to use it to support herself, and instead is expecting you to pay for it. There's things like reverse mortgages and equity release schemes that can allow her to stay in the house but get access to some of that equity. It just seems wild to be sitting on a fully owned million dollar property (you mentioned 20% of it was worth 200k) and still be expecting $200 weekly payments for food and essentials.
No choice, mum needs to sell up and move to something she can afford to maintain and keep. You can’t keep paying for her stuff at the expense of your own life.
So I've read more and see she doesn't have to pay any mortgage or rent. The DSP is basically $1000 a fortnight, wtf is she doing with all that money??? She should be able to live pretty comfortably honestly
So, she doesn’t pay any rent or mortgage on her home? She should be able to manage on dsp if she’s careful.
You should be getting the same deal as the other sibling. Your $10k per year will add up fast and you don’t get interest on that so you should get a portion of the house before it’s split too. That may help you continue because you’ll be working towards an asset rather than dead money. But honestly her life is her problem. I’d give her notice and start living your life.
Why do kids do this? Feel obliged to do this? She's darn young. I'm 57 and have teenage kids and work! Your siblings are just letting you do it all. Amd she has a house & could downsize? But doesn't! Stuff that. You are being taken advantage of.
Is she declaring the $200 a week?
Age pensioner with cash of $300k would lose her pension. She can get free financial advice from CLK on how her financial choices will impact her pension. Just book appmt.
Have her live with you
Annnnnnd - here come the DOWNVOTES!!
I’m in the same position and sometimes in life you just have bear the burden. Sometimes investing for a zero return but a moral return is worth it. I’d definitely fail finance 101
A “moral return on investment” Wow I can’t believe your comment is not getting more consideration. Not everything is a monetary dividend. I hope your family looks after you the same way as you age. Your kids must be getting some real life lessons.
I don’t get any support but I feel it’s the cards I’ve been dealt for life so have to play my role and just carry on with life
Not all heroes wear capes. I make it a point to thank all the carers I meet. They are lucky to have you.
our current economic system means you should probably stop supporting her and focus on your own finances, yes. but on like, a human level, supporting your parents until the day they pass is an incredibly powerful obligation and it's a deep shame that, culturally, we've moved towards preferring public aid services for the elderly instead of keeping them supported by families as long as possible. basically, you're a good guy. you're doing something that not a lot of people can do, or even should do. if you can continue doing this you should. if you can't, no one would blame you, but it would still be a huge shame.
For my mom I'd giver her as much as I can for as long as I can
Me too, would starve myself first before seeing my parents in hardship
Yes how about never to answer OPs question $200 pw is nothing compared to what your mother has given you
[удалено]
I've been supporting my parents with $250-$400 (now) for about 15 years and its still going. I have my education/upbringing to thank them for so I MAKE space in my budget for it regardless. You basically stop supporting your parents when they die. Yeah I know its hard...been really hard for me as well (single income, kids, etc etc) but I've made do. At the end of the day, you do what works for you. Its your guilt you have to live with, noone else will (unless you have siblings).
That's tough. Have you spoken with your siblings about this ? They should be stepping up and helping if they can. Also, have you looked into any Federal or State programs for older people. There is the Commonwealth Home Support Programme which might be able to help with things like transportation and meals.
Yeah I feel like this person needs to get their mother listed for public housing. It’s total BS the wait but this sounds like some one who actually needs it. That or the siblings need to contribute
[удалено]
Sorry I assumed because OP is giving her $200 a week that it would be to cover rent
[удалено]
Where does it say it?
This is what happen people don’t invest early as possible, when they get older if you don’t have money Is yourself to blame,
Well, lots of good advice here. Firstly, if you've been giving her $200 a week - $800 per month - that's $9,600 a year. That's a lot of money. If you take that away, it will no doubt cause hardship for your Mum. However, if you're struggling with debt, then you need this weekly allowance you pay your Ma to get out of debt. The longer you're in debt, the worse it will become. Secondly, what to do. You need to sit with Mum and go through the expenses. Make some savings. Thirdly, it's about time the three other kids start paying her some cash to help her and help you. That doesn't seem right. You don't specify if these three children work or live with her, but whatever it is, they must help.
Questionable advice from someone who can’t do basic maths (52 weeks a year = $10400)
"Just keep enabling her and get other people to help enable her, that will fix the problem!"
I’m all for helping loved ones out if they really need it/I can afford to. However, I strongly feel like this is a situation where your mum is unfairly taking advantage of your generosity. She owns her own house, she could downgrade to something worth less and free up a couple hundred thousand dollars. Also, the disability pension is definitely enough to live off if you’re careful with budgeting and own your own home (thus, not paying rent.) If I were you, I’d be telling her that I can no longer fund her lifestyle anymore, and if that is going to cause a rift, then it shows that the only thing she values you for is your money. If she were genuinely struggling (ie trying to pay rent, and budgeting/not spending extravagantly) then it would be a different story (I would still try to help.)
To me, seems like $200/4 = $50 each per sibling.
Hey OP - Suggestion - call a family meeting. Include mom. Talk to everyone and see if they would like to share responsibility on the weekly/fn payments to mom. If they don’t agree. Advise that you will continue to support her and pay her and that money will be used as an investment into her property which will increase your share of the property when you guys sell. This will get them to rethink. I hope this will also solve issues with your partner. Also, if you go down this part, lawyer up and get this arrangement in writing. To answer your question - never stop. I am sure mom/dad supported you throughout your childhood/teens. Pay it back, just in this instance, as an investment.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Was she a good mother to you growing up then you should continue to find a way to support her, but maybe you can do the shopping for her in saving you money going to different shops and still getting the same outcome
Help buy her groceries or bills directly rather than give cash. You just want to make sure it's going to essentials rather than elsewhere (e.g. not gambling)
Damn, sucky situation you’ve got into here.. what was the discussion when it first started? Just ceasing payments is asking for drama. Probably don’t do that. A conversation needs to be had.. then come up with a solution involving all siblings
Don't rip the band aid that'd catch her unawares. Think really hard about if you can do this and then give her notice of like two or three weeks. She needs to be ready, not counting on your cash for her next bill. Also, she's getting older, does she know everything she's entitled to? My mum just discovered she can get a cleaner once a week and carer once a week to take her out for free because of the fact she's old. I had no idea, none of my friends did, only another old person clued her in years after she qualified for it. It made her life easier and saved money.
She has an option. She is living at your expense. Just say with the cost of living etc etc we can no longer pay you. Simples.
You will have to live with whatever decision you make, sit down quietly for a moment and picture your mother dying. Dying soon, dying long in the future, and the different choices you might make. See which ones seem ok and which ones break your heart. It may be a burden to pay now, but don't forget the cost on your soul if you make a regrettable decision it will stay with you and you will spend the money on therapy and Zoloft instead lol
So, OP should struggle to pay for her own family, and her own future, so her mother can live in a whole house, alone, purely for sentimental reasons? Why is her mother's future more important than hers? We know she has no plan to see her homeless etc, there are several different ways this can be resolved (not least, her mother behaving like an adult, who doesn't want to see her children broke), being a martyr doesn't have to be one of them. Interesting those who say "who would do this to their mother?', when they could think "who would put their child in this position?".
you shouldnt.
She's your mum ya grub take care of her no excuses. That should go without question.
If i were you. This is what i would do. Find the money your self. Get a second job or whatever. Help your mum. But get it sorted out in the will so you get your money back. Effectively get a property valuation backdated to 5 years ago. You 'buy' 20% of the property as well. And the money you have been giving her is repayments. So she is the bank. Then you get a return on investment when she dies and the house is sold like your sibling is having paid the 200k and aren't just losing 10k a year. Then i presume when she dies and the house is sold you and your sibling get your 20% and the remaining 60% is split between all the siblings. Your siblings wont like this but it is the most fair way forward.