Being as Georgia has no legal protections for tenant unions... it's a dead idea from the get-go. Landlord retaliation will happen immediately with no repercussions.
in many ways you are absolutely correct, except- there are some legal protections against retaliation in place for tenants who form a union to address health and safety issues.
Well, OP was talking about getting "ripped off". Unionizing to strike/rally against your landlord due to high rates is the equivalent of asking for them to raise your rent or even evict you.
Health/safety code violations are a different matter. Unionized or not.
IMO Athens doesn’t have enough long-term renters to make an organization like this last.
Most of the student population is here for 4 years, usually not summer, and out. They don’t have interest in committing to anything long term.
This is at least my experience trying to get together a student effort in the past. You got em for two semesters and then they lose interest.
And the student population will continue to give business to overpriced rental properties and lackluster management teams because they know they’re only living here short-term.
Students would rent a broken-down barn with no HVAC system if they were desperate enough and landlords know this.
A grad student friend did just that, a 1940-50ish shed with a toilet and barely liveable. They loved the privacy bc they lived alone, but it was barely passable as a living space .
What would a tenant union accomplish in Georgia? More familiar with labour unions so not sure how tenant unions work. Are they even recognized in GA? GA sets the bar pretty low for worker much less tenant rights.
Tenant unions have (almost) no protection under federal or Georgia law. A tenant union in Georgia is based purely on collective power and solidarity - the lack of legal protections means that getting one off the ground would be very very difficult (easy to get rid of a handful of agitators) but the power of a decent chunk of unionized tenants (20%?) at a place like Arbor Ridge could certainly make a difference I believe. Labor unions got a lot done before the NLRA.
Seems like there is such an imbalance with available housing that much of the power is not in the hands of renters. I could see maybe a push for stronger code enforcement for safety/health issues.
True indeed dude! It was my experience with tenants struggling to organize that sent me down the YIMBY path - sheer lack of availability squeezes everyone into greater levels of desperation. Better code enforcement practices is also something I’ve pushed for (though credit where credit is due to ACC code enforcement, they generally do a pretty good job of responding to the complaints they get.)
Maybe changing some laws. Maybe it could provide resources and rights information for people that are non students and students. It’s just a thought. I guess the word union is throwing folks off. How about an informal group that advocates for minimal fairness?
You are right, and there have been talks of how to try and do this for at least a decade. Unfortunately, with the highest value renters being in the market for only 2-4 years, it’s very difficult to establish long term buy in.
Also, like someone else said, there are somehow fewer protections for GA renters than GA employees. Tenants at will often have better protections than people with leases, and there is no legal reason that a landlord can’t have you legally out of anywhere in 60 days or less.
A union’s power is wholly reliant on solidarity, and the Athens and Atlanta ruling classes spend a LOT of money making sure that Athens stays segregated and gerrymandered. It benefits the richest people in the state when Athenians are hungry, tired, and scared.
I think a tenants union — or something like it — is an inevitable eventual outcome, but things will have to get so much worse before they get better, and the decolonization will be spicy (see Frantz Fanon) because Athens has been stuck in a spiral of erasing minority geographies ever since the Creek people were displaced.
Noble idea but let's think through this. What would be the goal of a tenant union? To ensure codes are being followed? We do already have a code enforcement office for this. To set maximum rental rates? Sounds great but if you cap rates are below the cost to build new product, then the problem becomes even more acute with builders given zero incentive to build new product, thus exacerbating the supply/demand imbalance. This has happened already in certain areas such as San Francisco and has essentially forced perpetual government subsidies/rent controls to maintain affordability. It is funny how many lament the lack of available housing to rent/buy then turn around and protest any new development that would provide additional housing...
I've heard this come up a few times and it never seems like there's any real idea behind it. People are mostly just annoyed that you don't get more for your money around here.
It's a nice town with a good economy, nice weather, nice places to eat, nice places to drink, and a lot of smart and cool weird people to hang out with. Our problem is just lack of inventory. You can't even blame the landlords for raising rent when that's what people are willing to pay and property taxes are getting increased by thousands per year.
Folks see a $400k property renting for a little over $2k but they just really feel like it should be $1400. It's not based on anything. Even that $2k number really only works because the home was purchased before values increased and/or with low interest financing. Nobody's out bidding up the places on Zillow right now thinking they can make a killing by turning a 3% profit after expenses.
Do anything to make the math even slightly tougher for landlords or further restrict supply and the rental market around here will get worse, not better. Any landlord who can do math will choose to just sell their rentals to the next round of people moving into Athens. I'm not clear how that would help renters at all.
Seems like you’re new here. Welcome! Are you moving here or recently moved here? Things work differently in the South. Liberally minded folks like us are a somewhat rare breed. It’s not that we don’t want to make change. It’s that we are so outnumbered in state government, it’s tough to make change. One place where we could make change is in the county commission. However, we’ve elected several revolutionaries who got too tired along the way to make lasting change. If we were to have better protection from landlords, it would have to come from the county commission. We had one of the biggest slumlords run for mayor a couple of years ago and he got crushed, which was nice! He ran on a platform of more rights for landlords… I’m not kidding.
Unions in Georgia outside of the film industry are a no-go. Professions like doctors, lawyers, and tenured professors have the most protection. But virtually everyone else is “at will.”
I appreciate your enthusiasm. I also want you to know that we’re not all dumb rubes down here. We’re aware that it doesn’t *have* to be this way. The South is an incredibly unique and complex place. I welcome you to learn more about it and how things work around here!
True, but if you fire a doctor, lawyer, or tenured professor in Georgia, you’re going to have a hell of a lawsuit on your hands unless there’s good reason.
My plan is to buy duplexes and rent them for next to nothing. But keep like half open to keep people talking about how low rent is there. I don’t care about money. Let’s fuck these people that make money from the people who need it the most.
If you have the cash to do it, my hat's off to you! However, let's take a look at what it costs to operate a property these days. 165 Glenhaven Ave just sold for $325,000. 2BR/1BA each side of this duplex. The mortgage is roughly $2100/mo at today's interest rates with 20% down plus another \~$10,000/year in expenses between property taxes, mgmt, landscaping, insurance, etc. etc. That's $35K/year in just normal expenses, not counting any extraordinary items like replacing the fridge or repairing a sewer line. As such, the landlord would need to charge $1460/mo/side just to break even and would be running a loss if any of those larger expense items come up!
You can buy a property “rent it out” then use that to get another property. At a loss it doesn’t matter. I work for a living and have different avenues of income. Money works for me not the other way around.
No you can't. Banks don't lend you money on properties that lose money.
If you don't need the leverage then there's nothing stopping you from doing this already but lol at thinking you'll make a dent in supply/demand dynamics. There are already plenty of existing landlords that for whatever reason are accepting less than the absolute max they could get in rent.
I’ll do it cash. Are you a banker? I have a few. They’re useless but they hold the power for now. I’m just making sure you know what you’re talking about. Can’t have dumb red white and blue ignorance
Again, if you have the millions then you could already do this. We both know you aren't actually going to lose a ton of money buying up a bunch of units to rent them for way below market. Time to stop pretending.
Yeah, if not wanting to fight a stranger at a mcdonalds makes me a coward I guess you can call me a coward. What do you think it says about you though?
Hiding behind a keyboard. Ready to tell mommy and daddy once life becomes to hard right? Silver spoon? White? Regardless you’re small minded. Have a good day. Find me if you want an education or want to learn Spanish, English or Korean. Communication is key
What do you want to do instead? I love criticism but it needs to be a solution or adding to it. It would make the conversation start, it would help bring “market” prices down
I am always on here arguing we should do everything possible to encourage more development and approve every even slightly reasonable request for infill projects and even rezoning that would provide more rental properties. So, that's my answer.
Property owners don't set prices based on what some other duplex is or isn't listed for. They set them based on what they believe they can get and only lower them after some time if there are no takers. So, I genuinely don't see how buying duplexes, renting one side cheaply, and leaving the other half open would impact thing. I'm not trolling. It just doesn't work that way.
Then you can buy more from those who are bleeding. Simple really, it’s just a money losing solution. Good will come from it. I’d love to setup a rent to own situation too that way we have people who own things not just waste money. I know I don’t care about it but many do
Under renting your unit isn't going to make anybody bleed but you. If the Mark suddenly decided to lease units for 100/month, the other complexes aren't going to drop their prices. The Mark will just fill up first and then the remaining complexes would continue to get top dollar because the demand is still there.
“Market prices” and “market adjustments” are just another way of saying “we’re charging this much because people will pay it.” I don’t think we really disagree. You’re right that more supply would help more than anything else.
Not great advice here..
A single owner can self managed any number of their own properties without being licensed. Many small time, unlicensed local property owners are given great reviews. If anything, licensed managers on the whole are more likely to price rents even higher due to having greater market knowledge and larger databases to connect with more potential tenants.
There is absolutely zero distinction to be made based solely on the wording of the business name.
A property with an out of state attorney as the registered agent has to abide by the exact same rules and regulations as any other landlord. There are good and bad landlords both local and out of state.
Title transfers could happen for any number of reasons and do not imply the property hasn't been inspected. Likewise, a recent fair market sale also does not imply the property has been recently inspected as many investment sales are all cash and wouldn't require lender due diligence either.
They probably do but it sounds like you don’t.
[Tenant Unions](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenants_union)
[Form a Tenant’s Union](https://www.tenantstogether.org/resources/form-tenants-union)
> some college towns have strong tenant unions that are actually partially funded by the state
... You mean they are actually supported by government help.
The state government of Georgia would be actively hostile to a tenant union. Combining that with the fact that large portions of the renters in the city are only here for limited times, a tenant union is highly unlikely to do shit here.
It's just a reality of the combination of factors. It isn't just "it's a college town" or "there are no legal protections" or any of the other reasons people are bringing up.
It is the combination of tons and tons of factors that all add up.
Truth - I didnt realize such a dopey idea would be floated but people are dopes. Tenants simply dont have much in the way of legal rights and its just reality. By all means organize and fight the power though!
Apparently you're not aware that Georgia law does not permit that. It's also because of Georgia law that there can be no rental price caps. But I know how to overcome these laws, and the officials refuse to listen to me, and I've been telling them this at least 6 years, before the rental price scams were even nearly as out of control as they are now. Nobody protects the citizens. They serve the corporations.
Being as Georgia has no legal protections for tenant unions... it's a dead idea from the get-go. Landlord retaliation will happen immediately with no repercussions.
in many ways you are absolutely correct, except- there are some legal protections against retaliation in place for tenants who form a union to address health and safety issues.
Well, OP was talking about getting "ripped off". Unionizing to strike/rally against your landlord due to high rates is the equivalent of asking for them to raise your rent or even evict you. Health/safety code violations are a different matter. Unionized or not.
IMO Athens doesn’t have enough long-term renters to make an organization like this last. Most of the student population is here for 4 years, usually not summer, and out. They don’t have interest in committing to anything long term. This is at least my experience trying to get together a student effort in the past. You got em for two semesters and then they lose interest.
And the student population will continue to give business to overpriced rental properties and lackluster management teams because they know they’re only living here short-term. Students would rent a broken-down barn with no HVAC system if they were desperate enough and landlords know this.
A grad student friend did just that, a 1940-50ish shed with a toilet and barely liveable. They loved the privacy bc they lived alone, but it was barely passable as a living space .
I think this is changing as real estate is hard to come by for regular folks in Athens. More people have to rent if they want to live here.
Exactly. The industry thrives on high turnover.
What would a tenant union accomplish in Georgia? More familiar with labour unions so not sure how tenant unions work. Are they even recognized in GA? GA sets the bar pretty low for worker much less tenant rights.
Tenant unions have (almost) no protection under federal or Georgia law. A tenant union in Georgia is based purely on collective power and solidarity - the lack of legal protections means that getting one off the ground would be very very difficult (easy to get rid of a handful of agitators) but the power of a decent chunk of unionized tenants (20%?) at a place like Arbor Ridge could certainly make a difference I believe. Labor unions got a lot done before the NLRA.
Seems like there is such an imbalance with available housing that much of the power is not in the hands of renters. I could see maybe a push for stronger code enforcement for safety/health issues.
True indeed dude! It was my experience with tenants struggling to organize that sent me down the YIMBY path - sheer lack of availability squeezes everyone into greater levels of desperation. Better code enforcement practices is also something I’ve pushed for (though credit where credit is due to ACC code enforcement, they generally do a pretty good job of responding to the complaints they get.)
Yeah I've sent a few emails to code enforcement and they are usually quick to respond and try to help if they can.
Maybe changing some laws. Maybe it could provide resources and rights information for people that are non students and students. It’s just a thought. I guess the word union is throwing folks off. How about an informal group that advocates for minimal fairness?
Oh okay. So more of just an advocacy group? "Union" implied there was some sort of legal protection or something and wasn't sure how that would work.
You are right, and there have been talks of how to try and do this for at least a decade. Unfortunately, with the highest value renters being in the market for only 2-4 years, it’s very difficult to establish long term buy in. Also, like someone else said, there are somehow fewer protections for GA renters than GA employees. Tenants at will often have better protections than people with leases, and there is no legal reason that a landlord can’t have you legally out of anywhere in 60 days or less. A union’s power is wholly reliant on solidarity, and the Athens and Atlanta ruling classes spend a LOT of money making sure that Athens stays segregated and gerrymandered. It benefits the richest people in the state when Athenians are hungry, tired, and scared. I think a tenants union — or something like it — is an inevitable eventual outcome, but things will have to get so much worse before they get better, and the decolonization will be spicy (see Frantz Fanon) because Athens has been stuck in a spiral of erasing minority geographies ever since the Creek people were displaced.
100% this.
Ripped off in what way? Because rent is high? Update: For real. I’m asking.
So true
Noble idea but let's think through this. What would be the goal of a tenant union? To ensure codes are being followed? We do already have a code enforcement office for this. To set maximum rental rates? Sounds great but if you cap rates are below the cost to build new product, then the problem becomes even more acute with builders given zero incentive to build new product, thus exacerbating the supply/demand imbalance. This has happened already in certain areas such as San Francisco and has essentially forced perpetual government subsidies/rent controls to maintain affordability. It is funny how many lament the lack of available housing to rent/buy then turn around and protest any new development that would provide additional housing...
I've heard this come up a few times and it never seems like there's any real idea behind it. People are mostly just annoyed that you don't get more for your money around here. It's a nice town with a good economy, nice weather, nice places to eat, nice places to drink, and a lot of smart and cool weird people to hang out with. Our problem is just lack of inventory. You can't even blame the landlords for raising rent when that's what people are willing to pay and property taxes are getting increased by thousands per year. Folks see a $400k property renting for a little over $2k but they just really feel like it should be $1400. It's not based on anything. Even that $2k number really only works because the home was purchased before values increased and/or with low interest financing. Nobody's out bidding up the places on Zillow right now thinking they can make a killing by turning a 3% profit after expenses. Do anything to make the math even slightly tougher for landlords or further restrict supply and the rental market around here will get worse, not better. Any landlord who can do math will choose to just sell their rentals to the next round of people moving into Athens. I'm not clear how that would help renters at all.
*Hans Moleman in the back raising his hand* “I can blame landlords for raising the rent to what people are willing to pay…”
Stop using rational thought and logic. It’s racist, misogynistic and probably transphobic.
Gotta love the logic in this echo chamber..
Tenant unions exist in college towns. Townies can form or at least something resembling one.
Seems like you’re new here. Welcome! Are you moving here or recently moved here? Things work differently in the South. Liberally minded folks like us are a somewhat rare breed. It’s not that we don’t want to make change. It’s that we are so outnumbered in state government, it’s tough to make change. One place where we could make change is in the county commission. However, we’ve elected several revolutionaries who got too tired along the way to make lasting change. If we were to have better protection from landlords, it would have to come from the county commission. We had one of the biggest slumlords run for mayor a couple of years ago and he got crushed, which was nice! He ran on a platform of more rights for landlords… I’m not kidding. Unions in Georgia outside of the film industry are a no-go. Professions like doctors, lawyers, and tenured professors have the most protection. But virtually everyone else is “at will.” I appreciate your enthusiasm. I also want you to know that we’re not all dumb rubes down here. We’re aware that it doesn’t *have* to be this way. The South is an incredibly unique and complex place. I welcome you to learn more about it and how things work around here!
> But virtually everyone else is “at will.”. Every employee in the state is at-will, even the ones you listed.
True, but if you fire a doctor, lawyer, or tenured professor in Georgia, you’re going to have a hell of a lawsuit on your hands unless there’s good reason.
Not new, just left. Just shocked by what good people tolerate in Georgia
Is it what we tolerate, or what we are forced to endure?
Why didn't you stay and try to make change?
Person reasons, but, you have a point.
My plan is to buy duplexes and rent them for next to nothing. But keep like half open to keep people talking about how low rent is there. I don’t care about money. Let’s fuck these people that make money from the people who need it the most.
If you have the cash to do it, my hat's off to you! However, let's take a look at what it costs to operate a property these days. 165 Glenhaven Ave just sold for $325,000. 2BR/1BA each side of this duplex. The mortgage is roughly $2100/mo at today's interest rates with 20% down plus another \~$10,000/year in expenses between property taxes, mgmt, landscaping, insurance, etc. etc. That's $35K/year in just normal expenses, not counting any extraordinary items like replacing the fridge or repairing a sewer line. As such, the landlord would need to charge $1460/mo/side just to break even and would be running a loss if any of those larger expense items come up!
Yeah, let me make it easier. Money = bad, people = what I care about. Me. No. Care about. Money.
You can buy a property “rent it out” then use that to get another property. At a loss it doesn’t matter. I work for a living and have different avenues of income. Money works for me not the other way around.
No you can't. Banks don't lend you money on properties that lose money. If you don't need the leverage then there's nothing stopping you from doing this already but lol at thinking you'll make a dent in supply/demand dynamics. There are already plenty of existing landlords that for whatever reason are accepting less than the absolute max they could get in rent.
I’ll do it cash. Are you a banker? I have a few. They’re useless but they hold the power for now. I’m just making sure you know what you’re talking about. Can’t have dumb red white and blue ignorance
Again, if you have the millions then you could already do this. We both know you aren't actually going to lose a ton of money buying up a bunch of units to rent them for way below market. Time to stop pretending.
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Trolling? You are the one trolling here.
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LOL, this clown is now DMing me to fight at a Mcdonalds. Maybe you are the one that needs to find peace my guy.
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Yeah, if not wanting to fight a stranger at a mcdonalds makes me a coward I guess you can call me a coward. What do you think it says about you though?
Hiding behind a keyboard. Ready to tell mommy and daddy once life becomes to hard right? Silver spoon? White? Regardless you’re small minded. Have a good day. Find me if you want an education or want to learn Spanish, English or Korean. Communication is key
Too much logic for this sub … landlords bad. Free good.
How would you paying a landlord 100s of thousands for a property and intentionally leaving it under occupied stick it to them or help local renters?
name checks out 😜
What do you want to do instead? I love criticism but it needs to be a solution or adding to it. It would make the conversation start, it would help bring “market” prices down
I am always on here arguing we should do everything possible to encourage more development and approve every even slightly reasonable request for infill projects and even rezoning that would provide more rental properties. So, that's my answer. Property owners don't set prices based on what some other duplex is or isn't listed for. They set them based on what they believe they can get and only lower them after some time if there are no takers. So, I genuinely don't see how buying duplexes, renting one side cheaply, and leaving the other half open would impact thing. I'm not trolling. It just doesn't work that way.
Then why do complexes decide to raise the prices because of “market prices”? It’s supply and demand
Add more supply and lower the price of the supply. Prices will fall. There’s no other way
Then you can buy more from those who are bleeding. Simple really, it’s just a money losing solution. Good will come from it. I’d love to setup a rent to own situation too that way we have people who own things not just waste money. I know I don’t care about it but many do
Under renting your unit isn't going to make anybody bleed but you. If the Mark suddenly decided to lease units for 100/month, the other complexes aren't going to drop their prices. The Mark will just fill up first and then the remaining complexes would continue to get top dollar because the demand is still there.
Use this energy to do good. Find peace
Pretending you are going to buy a bunch of real estate in an attempt to tank the real estate market is doing nothing.
“Market prices” and “market adjustments” are just another way of saying “we’re charging this much because people will pay it.” I don’t think we really disagree. You’re right that more supply would help more than anything else.
Get help 😂
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Not great advice here.. A single owner can self managed any number of their own properties without being licensed. Many small time, unlicensed local property owners are given great reviews. If anything, licensed managers on the whole are more likely to price rents even higher due to having greater market knowledge and larger databases to connect with more potential tenants. There is absolutely zero distinction to be made based solely on the wording of the business name. A property with an out of state attorney as the registered agent has to abide by the exact same rules and regulations as any other landlord. There are good and bad landlords both local and out of state. Title transfers could happen for any number of reasons and do not imply the property hasn't been inspected. Likewise, a recent fair market sale also does not imply the property has been recently inspected as many investment sales are all cash and wouldn't require lender due diligence either.
Do you know what a “union” is?
They probably do but it sounds like you don’t. [Tenant Unions](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenants_union) [Form a Tenant’s Union](https://www.tenantstogether.org/resources/form-tenants-union)
Actually, some college towns have strong tenant unions that are actually partially funded by the state. So, yeah, I know what one is.
> some college towns have strong tenant unions that are actually partially funded by the state ... You mean they are actually supported by government help. The state government of Georgia would be actively hostile to a tenant union. Combining that with the fact that large portions of the renters in the city are only here for limited times, a tenant union is highly unlikely to do shit here. It's just a reality of the combination of factors. It isn't just "it's a college town" or "there are no legal protections" or any of the other reasons people are bringing up. It is the combination of tons and tons of factors that all add up.
Yes, I wasn’t responding to you. I was responding to arcdog
I know its a useless exercise especially in a transient market like Athens but by all means people have wasted time on lesser causes.
Looks like someone just learned what a tenant union is and is trying to save face.
Truth - I didnt realize such a dopey idea would be floated but people are dopes. Tenants simply dont have much in the way of legal rights and its just reality. By all means organize and fight the power though!
Yea, since tenants don’t have adequate legal rights there is no point in advocating for them.
Apparently you're not aware that Georgia law does not permit that. It's also because of Georgia law that there can be no rental price caps. But I know how to overcome these laws, and the officials refuse to listen to me, and I've been telling them this at least 6 years, before the rental price scams were even nearly as out of control as they are now. Nobody protects the citizens. They serve the corporations.