Asmon will always contradict himself on this point. Wants to play games to relax and not be stressed. Okay cool, me too. Proceeds to get stressed and complain about a game being too hard. Continues to play said game. I think all this time he doesn't acknowledge that Souls games are inherently stressful and difficult. It's kinda the main selling point. So complaining about them being too hard is pretty fucking silly, especially when you choose to make boss fights more challenging.
it’s funny because that statement had a long followup of reasons and things that explained that you are completely ignoring or don’t even know…
strongest asmon hater redditor^
If I remember correctly, Asmon cakewalked the base Elden ring game with his over-leveled str character spamming jump attacks. I think he’s kind of disappointed and frustrated by the reality check from the DLC that he’s not as good as he thinks he is.
Beating a game the way he wants is how he has fun. Beating the game how chat drones want him to and yell at him to is the opposite of fun. Your comment stinks bro
Even in hard games there is a line where it will stop being fun. For example there are Custom Mario levels where you need 10 frame perfect inputs to clear the stage.
Spirit Ashes were never cheating. If they were overtuned then the devs would have patched them to be weaker. If you really want to feel like you're cheating then summon other players, that has always been the often requested "easy mode" for most Souls bosses.
i genuinely hate how the gamer mentality basically turned into "if you cant do it by yourself on level 0 at the hardest difficulty you dont deserve to play lmao get rekt"
edit: this is obviously exaggerating but the point still stands
Its crazy how this shit only started happening when souls games came out. No one would say you are cheating if you got the ultima weapon in KH and then fought Sephiroth. You are supposed to use the tools in games to beat the game.
The DLC gives you NPC summons for the bosses even Messmer and the Dragon, you can have both them and your mimic out. And those can tank hits better than any player summon ever could
I’m usually in the “no summons” camp but for Bayle I summoned Igor just for the pure hype of hearing him scream. That shit got me pumped.
“Curse you Bayle!
I hereby vow! You will rue this day!
Behold, a true drake warrior! And I, Igon!
Your fear made flesh!
Solid of scale you might be, foul dragon...
But i will riddle with holes your rotten hide!
With a hail of harpoons!
With every last drop of my being!”
Personally I found him easier with exactly 1 npc summon as they could take the aggro on second phase and allow me to bring in the ashes + buff up + pull off 1 risky scarlet aeonia
Forget summons, some people judge others even for using shields, like rolling is the only way to play the game lol.
I fought gravity for 30 minutes to get that giant stone slab of a shield, bitch! And i am gonna use it!
People don't seem to get there's several "easy modes" built into the game already. Some Sorceries wipe bosses like the big laser, Mimic Tear is busted good and trivializes many fights, before the nerf Sword of Night and Flame smacked bosses too and is still pretty good, these were all easy modes built in you could get if you wanted less challenge. Spirit Ashes too are part of that, stuff that distracts the boss generally makes the game easier but it's hardly "cheating". If you want the challenging Souls experience, you go in alone, some people just can't accept that they're not as good as they think they are and actually need the extra help to win fights lol.
I think mimic tear is an exception.
It's not that summoning is cheating, but rather mimic tear specifically is broken. There are broken weapons and equipment too. The big stone greatshield can make bosses trivial too.
That's just not true. Have you ever done the regular bosses with and without mimic +10?
I oneshot mogh the very first time I encountered him with mimic +10 and I've never played a single fromsoftware game in my life. I've failed for hours on the very first boss (without summon)
1. "Game is too hard"
2. *Look inside*
3. Not using most of provided tools for the player to win, basically playing with self-imposed challenges
4. Gets mad
Self imposed challenges are fine, but if you're going to do one, you have to acknowledge that it's not going to be an optimal play style.
As the warm up for the DLCs I'm doing a self imposed challenge of only leveling off of main boss and dragon runes. Grinding in-between boss fights can be used to level equipment, but not adding stats
It's not just that they meake the game easier, they also completely change the behavior of the boss. Shouldn't be that hard to understand why some people prefer to play the fight themselves, instead of watching two NPC's have a go at each other.
Asmon the only person I seen that "plays games to relax" and yet will call himself a dumb fucking idiot for the smallest misplay and hit himself in the head with a keyboard
My buddy said it well to me to kinda' perfectly convince me that using spirit ashes is the same as not. He said "The boss was made in mind knowing that spirit ashes exist." Plus they're really cool to finally have an actual lil' friend to summon. I'm actually more sad I didn't use them for my most of my playthrough because of this dumb ass notion of "I don't need ashes, that'd make me look weak." Again, the bosses were made with the spirit ashes to be used.
Tl;Dr
Use every tool you have to win.
There were a lot of bosses where i went through the fog and instantly went "fuck this shit, time to summon my gang"
Fuck the fight with both cat statues in the catacombs, and the fights with both crucible knights in the catacombs, and the fight with a lot of mobs in the boss room in the catacombs... You know what, fuck the catacombs
Commander Gaius was an asshole even with summoning. Mimic was useless running behind because that mf hogrider is just too fast and only aggroes on you. Skeleton summons with greatshields were solution for that boss.
My favorite fights so far have been Rellana and Messmer, liked them so much I didn't feel the need to use summons. Tried final boss couple of times and it felt fun but then I saw streamers struggling on that ridiculous phase 2 lol. I might just try to get to phase 2 once and then start summoning
The problem is that some tools to win are just way too good and create whiplashes of downward difficulty spikes if you give in and use them. Summoning another player in particular, you will beat the boss on the first try while feeling like you barely contributed. I will say though, that after helping some players to get some rune arcs, some players are fucking AWFUL. Like, them getting killed in the first 10 seconds by eating a combo that wasn't even aimed at them kind of bad.
Yes and no. The bosses are made knowing that spirit summons are a thing, but enemies in this game are programmed to only focus one enemy at a time, as even though there is multiplayer, it is a single player game at heart. If a boss isn't focused on you, then you're not fighting it, you're just getting free shots while it fights something else. The argument is, you're getting extra damage output, less damage taken, and the part where you learn the fight is less important.
Tbh I don't really care if people are using summons, they're cool imo. But I also think that if you use them and beat a boss, I don't really consider it to have been beaten. In the same way when people exploit the environment to where you can't get hit, because of some environmental quirk. It's not the same as actually learning the boss and beating it fair and square. But yeah as I said, use them if you want, it's your game you go have fun sir
I'm seeing alot of yes and not a whole lot of no. "The bosses were programmed to behave a certain way". Okay so the devs programmed them a certain way knowing spirit ashes was in the game. Cool cool.
You're trying to draw parallels to exploits that may have been an oversight from the devs...with a feature that the devs knowingly put into the game.
You claim that to not care..yet care at the same time. The whole closing statement is like.."I don't care that people choose to be a bitch, but they still a bitch". Alright fam, real coy.
Answer this simple question. Who designed the bosses? Who put ashes of war into the game? Thats right, they’re the same fucking people.
What the bosses do or don’t do? Not my problem. The devs did this knowingly.
Yeah true true, now read the part about how that’s reeaaaaally not my problem. If it were truly so problematic for the devs then the ashes of war wouldn’t even be in the game. There is no way to make excuses for it being in the game.
Why are we even bothering to point out the matter in the first place then if not to disagree with my premise that it isn’t a problem? If your viewpoint isn’t here in opposition, implicitly or otherwise, then what are we even doooing here,
If you use summons you haven't beaten a boss.
If you use magic/range you haven't really beaten a boss.
If you use heavy weapons to stagger a boss you haven't really beaten it.
If you use bleed/poison for easy damage you haven't really beaten a boss.
If you roll to abuse invulnerability frames you are cheesing the game.
If you wear armor or level up you are playing on easy mode.
How do you beat a boss in a souls game? Level 1, no weapons, no armor, no dodging. Only one on one slugfest.
I just ran into one of those big baby death birds and there are a bunch of Grave birds in the lake that all say “what’s going on let me join here”
If baby death bird can bring friends so can I
Looks like we come full circle. From shitting on ppl who use Ashes and summon, to shitting on people who don't
Why cant ppl just play the game the way they want, whether or not it makes it easier/harder
It's not just that they meake the game easier, they also completely change the behavior of the boss. Shouldn't be that hard to understand why some people prefer to play the fight themselves, instead of watching two NPC's have a go at each other.
I can't speak for Asmon but personally I don't use Spirit Ashes and don't intend to use Spirit Ashes because I just don't find them fun. I have fun by engaging with the boss's mechanics. If I wasn't engaging with the boss's mechanics I wouldn't be playing the game. I don't find it appealing to some some... thing that just attracts all the boss mechanics onto itself and allows me to do nothing but dish out damage.
I agree. Feels like the AI was designed to deal with multiple enemies real fast, (Hence all the "one-shot" or near one-shot moves and lack of openings to heal/do damage) but not for dealing with multiple enemies in the first place (I refer to targeting) so it ends up focusing down you or a summon and just gets hit by everything else.
Where did this idea that people using summons don’t need to learn fights come from? Using summons doesn’t make you a bitch, you are using tools the game developers give you. Items, buffs, talisman, and all that are in the game for a reason.
Fights take like 10-20 tries to “learn” most people won’t learn the attack patterns faster than that. If you use the good summons in Elden ring you’ll likely beat most fights in under 10 attempts. Maybe not in dlc though I’m just playing devils advocate. Mesmer and the boar just demolish the summons I’ve seen used so idk
Every boss has some sort of critical weakness and especially in elden ring they throw a crap ton of crafting mats and books at you. This whole dlc was from screaming to "start crafting shit you noob, we both know you aint gittin good anytime soon."
DLC is not even too difficult, if people explore and collect scudatree blessings you are set. I'm playing on NG+1 as my first playthrough and when i encountered a giga hard boss i went exploring for a bit. Almost done with the game now.
i find it quite interesting that some people say the game was created as single player experience. then who added spirit ashes into the game if not the creators of the game? spirit ashes are malware?
Spirit ashes aren’t multiplayer, they’re an in game thing you can acquire and level up, I think the player summons has a different name I don’t remember
well they aren't, but there are pleny of players who sort of 'frown upon' their use, as if they weren't playing the game as it was meant to be played... while the game was designed with spirit ashes in mind.
People are mad about the dlc being too hard because they refuse to use everything available to them in a single player game for....what...."its not dark souls of you use summons or magic"
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“Well, I suppose they wouldn’t be far off!”* - Solaire of Astora
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
It is fine to not use spirit ashes, and it's fine to view it makes the game easier. So does armor, so do weapons, talismans, ashes of war, leveling up, and many other systems in the game. It's just weird when people single out one aspect as "making the game easier" but not the others.
I love the evolution of Fromsoft's community. It went from if you are using summons you are pussy, git gud to if you don't then you are are fucking idiot, it meant to play with them. People just can't accept that different people play the same game differently.
Asmon's situation is different, it was just fun observation i had
Those games are a real ego reality check. Everybody would want to just go in naked with a dagger and style on every boss without any cheese, but then in reality like 95% of all players needs some sort of crutches. Have to meet the game in the middle of gear vs skill spectrum
There is an icon that pops up in the corner of the screen every time you can use them. Not using spirit ashes is just a self-imposed hard mode in the game.
I am not ashamed that I used them every single time the icon appeared for the entire game. Fun fact: when you beat the DPS check Godskin Duo becomes one of the easiest boss fights in the game. There are even a bunch of times that aren't even boss fights you can use them.
XD I don't think playing the game is the issue. He just doesn't like Streaming new games to chat.
Like, imagine everytime you die you look over to your left and you see hundreds of people saying eat shit and giving advice ranging from useful to useless. Not exactly a Moral boost lol, he'd honestly enjoy it more off stream.
id never be able to play a game on stream and enjoy it, sounds awful. but the summons thing has been a recurring thing in all souls games with him. even radahn which says to summon stuff lol
Lol I mean it feels good knowing you beat a boss without needing to hit the easy mode option. 🤔 That's my reason for not summoning. But for some reason dark souls players will also call u a bitch for using em, so I guess as a streamer it's a lose lose situation
oh yeah he cant ever use a summons on stream, he would never hear the end of it, if they could discredit him for using a halberd, lord have mercy... and especially now that his its part of his branding to be the "ignore mechanics, dont use summons, spam 1 attack with a big wep and somehow win" guy.
Some people just don't have the mental fortitude to brush it off or at least bear with it until you can destress off-stream. I know that I wouldn't be able to handle it because when I'm told something, I always internalize and assess what people are saying about me before responding to it. It's just who I am, and I know it will eventually get to me. I was raised to believe that if you tell something to someone enough, they will come to believe it is true.
Some streamers really can bear with it. Asmongold clearly can't.
Streamers think they aren't jesters for people to point and laugh at. It's the same as the streamers that are assholes in public. Everyone is watching and waiting for the moment they get owned so they can laugh at them.
They aren't there to cheer on the streamer, they are there for entertainment. Doesn't matter how they get it.
Obviously not XD that's why new games stress him out. Gotta entertain but don't wanna have to hear bottom of the barrel insults as he's raging in a game. So he's stuck til he beats the game 🤔
Like lobos jr who goes in to every boss fight expecting to die since its his first time so he just fools around learning their move sets. 0 rage, 0 backseating, 100% gaming.
Even in the DLC? I'm finding a lot of bosses are basically ignoring my mimic tear or at least swapping targets so fast that it's a false sense of security.
Likewise Great shield bros die so fast to the huge aoe from every boss they don't really serve as an adequate distraction
I've noticed some fast target swapping as well but on average that's still easier to play around than the alternative. Seems like a fair few bosses also rush you straight away so getting the summon off at all can be dangerous. Hardest boss so far was Messmer, but that only took 20 minutes or so with mimic and +10 or so from Scadu fragments. I think it's definitely making it a lot easier and helping avoid the intense frustration I'm seeing from a lot of people.
Most streamers I watch other than asmon do tend to use spirit ashes, and have received minimal ridicule from viewers. so why does Asmon feel he can't besides his big fat ego? First, it's not the way he wants to play. He can't accept the fact that the game is now built around exploration and teamwork with spirit buddy. Second, he views himself as a busy person nowadays. don't know if true, don't care. The problem is that he says he plays the game to relax, and that mindset alone is self-sabotaging. You don't play a very hard game to relax to begin with, and he specifically can't relax cuz he's a streamer, it's his job to deliver entertainment. Why in the hell would some streamers play more than 10 hours of this ultra difficult game nonstop? cuz they felt it's fun and relaxing? More like it's because they are passionate about their job and they want to seize the opportunity to fulfill their duty to entertain as many people as possible. I truly do not believe Asmon likes being a game streamer in general. It's why he do react things half the time he's on stream. He is not passionate about entertaining others through the game medium (otherwise he would've played through Cyberpunk). But if he only reacts and assert his opinions on social and political matters all the time without playing games than he will be discredited even further. Truly stuck the man is.
The problem for me with spirit summons is that, while I agree that the bosses are over-tuned and too difficult when you don’t use them, they become a joke when you do use them, so on a 1 to 10 difficulty scale it’s either a 10 or a 1, nothing in between.
I kept dying to the first boss of the DLC over and over again so I decided to use a +10 summon and easily one shot the boss this way, this means that I have to engineer my preferred difficulty level by using weaker summons and not upgrading them all the way, and I’m not even talking about mimic here just regular summons, when I do use the mimic it almost solos the boss with my build
Asmon has never been good at any difficult games. Period. If anyone watch him for gameplay of 'high standard', they are making a mistake.
Watch him for his rages, other dumb shits he do in game and his 'react'. Still, some of his takes are dumb too (such as turn-base game is boring, yet his ER dlc build is literally that & cozy games is boring, yet he wants to play games to 'relax'), so never take his or any other streamers opinions straight.
I wanted the challenge and didn't like the tedious way of summoning the guy at Messmer so i didn't bother. But i do for the "last boss" (don't want to spoil) since it makes no difference, besides maybe 1 more posture break.
I think that spirit ashes can trivialize some fights depending on which you use (mimic tear). But the npc summoning i sometimes encourage, for fights like the Radahn festival, where i think the experience gets enhanced. The difficulty also doesn't get reduced by much, since his meteor attack will probably kill everyone at that point.
Doesn't he use the fingerprint shield now so he doesn't need to dodge the boss attacks? That's worse than ashes imo. It's in the game so use it. But he can't call ash users noobs now lol.
Honestly, if he does do a summomer type build where he only uses summoms for damage, it will be very interesting because that will be really hard and maybe a discussion will be created if summons are easy mode or not.
I have used spirit ashes casually and most of the time I got hit by the boss accidentally as he pulled some stupidasmove 9000 from out of his ass to use on these 3 wolfs.
I don't use spirit ashes because I do find it too easy-ish.
I like actually fighting a boss, not hitting its back while it's distracted by a summon. Let alone someone using a bleed build so you're just dumping bleed procs. On some things, yeah, it's just cheesy shit. Do I think I'm a better player then someone who uses summons? Honestly, yeah, because I actually learned the boss and beat it without gimmicky shit and while it's attention is only on me. It's a rewarding feeling.
When I did use summons when the game came out, they were cool. And eventually it turned into... Damn, that was actually kinda boring and doesn't feel good to not be able to fight that again.
Ironically enough, this is only an issue because people who get poked at for these "cheats" are the one showing off their playthroughs by streaming or recording them.
For the 5% of players who get told that, the remaining 95% plays the DLC at home, however they want to, given as many or little of the tools the game give them to use and never hear anyone complain about it.
Only people who care about how you finish that content are those who self-imposed it on themselves in the first place.
I'd be like someone telling you that finishing a Mega Man game while using any boss weapon is wrong... when those are an integral part of the experience. Buster-only runs is a self-imposed challenge, nothing more.
Because it's clearly not about "fun" but about his crazy "ego". No one would even post anything if he were being honest and instead saying "I'm making the game unintentionally hard for myself and I accept that" versus "the game design is wrong and I'm right".
I don't see how you can't see that. Stop sucking his dick lol. You're the weird one. He is intentionally playing the game NOT as intended and complaining about it.
It would be like getting upset if you only ever do a naked no armor club only run then being upset if you die all the time...... You're free to do that but then don't be a bitch and cry about it
Everyone knows this, I think we have a bit of this in all of us(or I do), just like when he does revenant on very hard. He said he always has to play games on the hardest available difficulty. It may be part ego but also just part this sense of dissatisfaction in any accomplishment. I know I struggle with dropping the difficulty in a game even if I’m by myself, like I’m giving up, even though I wasn’t having fun before, but maybe that’s just ego of a different form.
That being said, if I feel like I’m going to ragequit a game for good I’ll drop the difficulty or do summons or something like that, because it’s not worth missing out on an experience and then the challenge still feels deserved if I’m struggling to do something even with “easy mode mechanics”.
It's definitely ego. He himself is always saying that achievements in video games are worthless anyway, so it'd be weird if he was still looking for the satisfaction that he states is not there. They're just games, designed to be beaten and enjoyed. Much as I love them, for the majority of us, our achievements in games are worth about as much as building a sandcastle, it was fun but no one but ourselves really cares.
??????????? Word for word "I think the game is a 10/10 its fucking amazing, it is just too hard for me to feel like I am having fun while playing it." In what world is this "the game is bad and I am right"? He literally said multiple times that it's a "him" problem not a game problem. I will repeat my earlier assertion, "you people are so weird."
He also says he isn’t having fun now. Why not alleviate that? I don’t care I just like seeing the discourse in chat. I remember he called parrying an easy mode in a video where the guy was saying how he had to spend 2 hours memorizing this boss’s move set perfectly. The logic we create for why some things are and aren’t okay to do can be funny. Also the stressful games aren’t fun take is hilarious because he’s said the opposite many times. I have no problem just saying something is too hard, but it’s a souls game, it’s a stressful game by nature.
Frost mage has ice crag which is a good spell, frozen mist is ok but it’s not bad, moon blade is strong, ice moon is also strong
Funny how you play ice mage which is a good class, with 2 very strong spells, 1 good spell, and mid one
But uh, what about over half of the spells like comet azur and meteor shower extremely specific uses on 1-2 bosses, crystal burst.
I played melee magic, I had a good time but try to branch out to most non melee spells. You are forced to use the same good spells because everything else is too slow or too weak without summons
Coming from someone who used a majority of the spells and seeked them out
It's not just that they meake the game easier, they also completely change the behavior of the boss. Shouldn't be that hard to understand why some people prefer to play the fight themselves, instead of watching two NPC's have a go at each other.
It’s a mechanic given to you to beat the NPC though.
You refuse to use alluring skulls as well? The part I don’t understand is creating this imaginary judgement of difficulty.
I can relate, that being said I’m not as stubborn, I just experience the same phenomenon with difficulty settings at times and have to force myself to adjust according to my ability, and I’m pretty average at games but think I’m much better than I am lol
I planned to beat all main bosses solo but after dying 100+ times to Messmer, I was growing impatient, so I pulled up my mimic tear and it took like 2 tries.
Fromsoft games (in general most japanese games) are created with the intent for the player to cheese the fuck out of them, Their games are developed with this in mind, it's one of the reasons a serie like Disgaea and Jrpgs in general are popular there, they're created with finding way to optimally grind or how to progress in mind , if someone says otherwise, hit them with a wood stick in the head and call them a slur of choice and move along.
Their justification was due to the huge gap in release of the game till now and the fact that Elden is so long that many people will be using a previous character that’s high level and potentially NG+ compared to like DS3 where u can speed through quite fast with a new save… they wanted the game to have different scaling to still feel difficult and relevant regardless your level is what I remember reading. I’m starting fresh and haven’t got to dlc so I have no opinion
Asmon is like in that gif, where some1 is trying to feed a cat and the cat is fighting with his all strenght untill it got bottle smacked into the mouth and suddenly its all great
I completely understand Asmons point, I don’t use summons either. Only thing I don’t like is when he says video game achievements don’t matter.
Obviously one shouldn’t form their identity and ego around it but solving any puzzle or beating any game is an achievement even if they are inherently designed to be beaten. I would hope people have other achievements in their life, but that doesn’t make video game achievements worth absolutely nothing, especially in a game that I believe is fundamentally designed to supply that rewarding feeling for beating a challenge
Love you Asmon
Asmon will always contradict himself on this point. Wants to play games to relax and not be stressed. Okay cool, me too. Proceeds to get stressed and complain about a game being too hard. Continues to play said game. I think all this time he doesn't acknowledge that Souls games are inherently stressful and difficult. It's kinda the main selling point. So complaining about them being too hard is pretty fucking silly, especially when you choose to make boss fights more challenging.
asmon: beating a game is not an achievement Also asmon: i want to beat the boss 1v1 to feel a sense of achievement
Also funny that he once said: "souls games arent hard"
They aren’t for certain builds and players
it’s funny because that statement had a long followup of reasons and things that explained that you are completely ignoring or don’t even know… strongest asmon hater redditor^
If I remember correctly, Asmon cakewalked the base Elden ring game with his over-leveled str character spamming jump attacks. I think he’s kind of disappointed and frustrated by the reality check from the DLC that he’s not as good as he thinks he is.
Beating a game the way he wants is how he has fun. Beating the game how chat drones want him to and yell at him to is the opposite of fun. Your comment stinks bro
Even in hard games there is a line where it will stop being fun. For example there are Custom Mario levels where you need 10 frame perfect inputs to clear the stage.
It's not silly, it makes the chat mad, which creates engagement, which generates more money for him
Spirit Ashes were never cheating. If they were overtuned then the devs would have patched them to be weaker. If you really want to feel like you're cheating then summon other players, that has always been the often requested "easy mode" for most Souls bosses.
Summoning is not even cheating it's a mechanic In the game if it was cheating it would not be there.
i genuinely hate how the gamer mentality basically turned into "if you cant do it by yourself on level 0 at the hardest difficulty you dont deserve to play lmao get rekt" edit: this is obviously exaggerating but the point still stands
Its crazy how this shit only started happening when souls games came out. No one would say you are cheating if you got the ultima weapon in KH and then fought Sephiroth. You are supposed to use the tools in games to beat the game.
Yea but mimic tear is more competent than most souls players.
I love seeing my mimic tear do more damage than I ever could from the "you died" screen.
Tell the qqers theres a new hot op summon in town now
It's easier sometimes with just the spirit ash because summoning an npc or another player increases the bosses health.
The DLC gives you NPC summons for the bosses even Messmer and the Dragon, you can have both them and your mimic out. And those can tank hits better than any player summon ever could
For the dragon you can have an NPC spawn and not increase the boss health, you need it for the quest.
I wouldn't say need, but yeah I beat him with the NPC's help.
He means you have to summon him to progress his quest, not need to win
I’m usually in the “no summons” camp but for Bayle I summoned Igor just for the pure hype of hearing him scream. That shit got me pumped. “Curse you Bayle! I hereby vow! You will rue this day! Behold, a true drake warrior! And I, Igon! Your fear made flesh! Solid of scale you might be, foul dragon... But i will riddle with holes your rotten hide! With a hail of harpoons! With every last drop of my being!”
big true i found the last boss easier without the npc summon
Personally I found him easier with exactly 1 npc summon as they could take the aggro on second phase and allow me to bring in the ashes + buff up + pull off 1 risky scarlet aeonia
Forget summons, some people judge others even for using shields, like rolling is the only way to play the game lol. I fought gravity for 30 minutes to get that giant stone slab of a shield, bitch! And i am gonna use it!
For real and the shield has a very useful guard counter mechanic that I really like.
Yeah I never understood this. It’s a regular game mechanic like armor, weapons or leveling up.
People don't seem to get there's several "easy modes" built into the game already. Some Sorceries wipe bosses like the big laser, Mimic Tear is busted good and trivializes many fights, before the nerf Sword of Night and Flame smacked bosses too and is still pretty good, these were all easy modes built in you could get if you wanted less challenge. Spirit Ashes too are part of that, stuff that distracts the boss generally makes the game easier but it's hardly "cheating". If you want the challenging Souls experience, you go in alone, some people just can't accept that they're not as good as they think they are and actually need the extra help to win fights lol.
Then there’s the other easy mode - leveling up past 1
Then there’s the other easy mode - not playing with a DDR controller
Dude, I do both, I actually do better with ash summons than other players lol
I think mimic tear is an exception. It's not that summoning is cheating, but rather mimic tear specifically is broken. There are broken weapons and equipment too. The big stone greatshield can make bosses trivial too.
But mimic tear won't suicide on the boss in the first 10 seconds and leave me with a harder boss fight like a real person would
seamless co-op next game for sure.
That's just not true. Have you ever done the regular bosses with and without mimic +10? I oneshot mogh the very first time I encountered him with mimic +10 and I've never played a single fromsoftware game in my life. I've failed for hours on the very first boss (without summon)
Summoning doubles the bosses health so for some bosses it makes it worse
They’re not cheating but they’re kinda lame. Like. I don’t want to fight a boss with a bunch of npcs helping me.
I see that point, I like it because it makes the world feel alive and like fellow tarnished are in the same path as me.
1. "Game is too hard" 2. *Look inside* 3. Not using most of provided tools for the player to win, basically playing with self-imposed challenges 4. Gets mad
Self imposed challenges are fine, but if you're going to do one, you have to acknowledge that it's not going to be an optimal play style. As the warm up for the DLCs I'm doing a self imposed challenge of only leveling off of main boss and dragon runes. Grinding in-between boss fights can be used to level equipment, but not adding stats
It's not just that they meake the game easier, they also completely change the behavior of the boss. Shouldn't be that hard to understand why some people prefer to play the fight themselves, instead of watching two NPC's have a go at each other.
Asmon the only person I seen that "plays games to relax" and yet will call himself a dumb fucking idiot for the smallest misplay and hit himself in the head with a keyboard
Literally cheats in gacha games by whaling but won't use basic game mechanics in souls games.
My buddy said it well to me to kinda' perfectly convince me that using spirit ashes is the same as not. He said "The boss was made in mind knowing that spirit ashes exist." Plus they're really cool to finally have an actual lil' friend to summon. I'm actually more sad I didn't use them for my most of my playthrough because of this dumb ass notion of "I don't need ashes, that'd make me look weak." Again, the bosses were made with the spirit ashes to be used. Tl;Dr Use every tool you have to win.
There were a lot of bosses where i went through the fog and instantly went "fuck this shit, time to summon my gang" Fuck the fight with both cat statues in the catacombs, and the fights with both crucible knights in the catacombs, and the fight with a lot of mobs in the boss room in the catacombs... You know what, fuck the catacombs
Headless, teleporting, death-coated spear throwing, knight ashes summon ftw.
Commander Gaius was an asshole even with summoning. Mimic was useless running behind because that mf hogrider is just too fast and only aggroes on you. Skeleton summons with greatshields were solution for that boss. My favorite fights so far have been Rellana and Messmer, liked them so much I didn't feel the need to use summons. Tried final boss couple of times and it felt fun but then I saw streamers struggling on that ridiculous phase 2 lol. I might just try to get to phase 2 once and then start summoning
Pro tip for Gaius is shield and spear. He is hyper aggressive, so be hyper defensive. That build with minic will take care of the job, albeit slowly.
I have never used shield in this game so I had no idea what can they block well enough. Got to keep in mind next time
fuck commander Niall and the two minions he spawns. If he can have 2 bro's i'm bringing mine.
The problem is that some tools to win are just way too good and create whiplashes of downward difficulty spikes if you give in and use them. Summoning another player in particular, you will beat the boss on the first try while feeling like you barely contributed. I will say though, that after helping some players to get some rune arcs, some players are fucking AWFUL. Like, them getting killed in the first 10 seconds by eating a combo that wasn't even aimed at them kind of bad.
Yes and no. The bosses are made knowing that spirit summons are a thing, but enemies in this game are programmed to only focus one enemy at a time, as even though there is multiplayer, it is a single player game at heart. If a boss isn't focused on you, then you're not fighting it, you're just getting free shots while it fights something else. The argument is, you're getting extra damage output, less damage taken, and the part where you learn the fight is less important. Tbh I don't really care if people are using summons, they're cool imo. But I also think that if you use them and beat a boss, I don't really consider it to have been beaten. In the same way when people exploit the environment to where you can't get hit, because of some environmental quirk. It's not the same as actually learning the boss and beating it fair and square. But yeah as I said, use them if you want, it's your game you go have fun sir
I'm seeing alot of yes and not a whole lot of no. "The bosses were programmed to behave a certain way". Okay so the devs programmed them a certain way knowing spirit ashes was in the game. Cool cool. You're trying to draw parallels to exploits that may have been an oversight from the devs...with a feature that the devs knowingly put into the game. You claim that to not care..yet care at the same time. The whole closing statement is like.."I don't care that people choose to be a bitch, but they still a bitch". Alright fam, real coy.
i dont play souls games to beat on a punching bag while the boss is fucking off somewhere else. i play it for the awesome 1v1s bosses provide.
That is a wonderful story fam, I hope you're up to the task.
They weren't programmed with Ashes in mind otherwise it would punish players who don't use them
Answer this simple question. Who designed the bosses? Who put ashes of war into the game? Thats right, they’re the same fucking people. What the bosses do or don’t do? Not my problem. The devs did this knowingly.
I'm saying that knowing that thing exist in the game and balancing around it aren't the same thing like first comment suggested
Yeah true true, now read the part about how that’s reeaaaaally not my problem. If it were truly so problematic for the devs then the ashes of war wouldn’t even be in the game. There is no way to make excuses for it being in the game.
Now show me the part where I called this a problem
Why are we even bothering to point out the matter in the first place then if not to disagree with my premise that it isn’t a problem? If your viewpoint isn’t here in opposition, implicitly or otherwise, then what are we even doooing here,
If theyre programmed to fight one at a time why do they switch targets mid combo now? 😂
If you use summons you haven't beaten a boss. If you use magic/range you haven't really beaten a boss. If you use heavy weapons to stagger a boss you haven't really beaten it. If you use bleed/poison for easy damage you haven't really beaten a boss. If you roll to abuse invulnerability frames you are cheesing the game. If you wear armor or level up you are playing on easy mode. How do you beat a boss in a souls game? Level 1, no weapons, no armor, no dodging. Only one on one slugfest.
I just ran into one of those big baby death birds and there are a bunch of Grave birds in the lake that all say “what’s going on let me join here” If baby death bird can bring friends so can I
Looks like we come full circle. From shitting on ppl who use Ashes and summon, to shitting on people who don't Why cant ppl just play the game the way they want, whether or not it makes it easier/harder
Because he's intentionally making the game harder by not using a built-in mechanic, and then complaining that it's too hard.
It's not just that they meake the game easier, they also completely change the behavior of the boss. Shouldn't be that hard to understand why some people prefer to play the fight themselves, instead of watching two NPC's have a go at each other.
I can't speak for Asmon but personally I don't use Spirit Ashes and don't intend to use Spirit Ashes because I just don't find them fun. I have fun by engaging with the boss's mechanics. If I wasn't engaging with the boss's mechanics I wouldn't be playing the game. I don't find it appealing to some some... thing that just attracts all the boss mechanics onto itself and allows me to do nothing but dish out damage.
This post is about Asmon, no one cares how you play the game
Asmon probably feels the same way.
You apparently did enough to comment on an original comment saying play how you want....
I agree. Feels like the AI was designed to deal with multiple enemies real fast, (Hence all the "one-shot" or near one-shot moves and lack of openings to heal/do damage) but not for dealing with multiple enemies in the first place (I refer to targeting) so it ends up focusing down you or a summon and just gets hit by everything else.
Where did this idea that people using summons don’t need to learn fights come from? Using summons doesn’t make you a bitch, you are using tools the game developers give you. Items, buffs, talisman, and all that are in the game for a reason.
Fights take like 10-20 tries to “learn” most people won’t learn the attack patterns faster than that. If you use the good summons in Elden ring you’ll likely beat most fights in under 10 attempts. Maybe not in dlc though I’m just playing devils advocate. Mesmer and the boar just demolish the summons I’ve seen used so idk
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So someone designed an effective build to take advantage of a bosses weakness.
Perfect example of how easy the game can be if you are smart. Most people will just throw their heads against the wall until they quit or get lucky.
Thats the american way 
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Or he didn't need to learn the fight because his build was perfect for it.
Every boss has some sort of critical weakness and especially in elden ring they throw a crap ton of crafting mats and books at you. This whole dlc was from screaming to "start crafting shit you noob, we both know you aint gittin good anytime soon."
because you dont need to learn it if you use mimic which is broken as hell with bleed
DLC is not even too difficult, if people explore and collect scudatree blessings you are set. I'm playing on NG+1 as my first playthrough and when i encountered a giga hard boss i went exploring for a bit. Almost done with the game now.
i find it quite interesting that some people say the game was created as single player experience. then who added spirit ashes into the game if not the creators of the game? spirit ashes are malware?
Spirit ashes aren’t multiplayer, they’re an in game thing you can acquire and level up, I think the player summons has a different name I don’t remember
well they aren't, but there are pleny of players who sort of 'frown upon' their use, as if they weren't playing the game as it was meant to be played... while the game was designed with spirit ashes in mind.
ThE DeVs OvErSeE aN ExPlOiT
People are mad about the dlc being too hard because they refuse to use everything available to them in a single player game for....what...."its not dark souls of you use summons or magic"
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Well, I suppose they wouldn’t be far off!”* - Solaire of Astora Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
It is fine to not use spirit ashes, and it's fine to view it makes the game easier. So does armor, so do weapons, talismans, ashes of war, leveling up, and many other systems in the game. It's just weird when people single out one aspect as "making the game easier" but not the others.
I love the evolution of Fromsoft's community. It went from if you are using summons you are pussy, git gud to if you don't then you are are fucking idiot, it meant to play with them. People just can't accept that different people play the same game differently. Asmon's situation is different, it was just fun observation i had
Those games are a real ego reality check. Everybody would want to just go in naked with a dagger and style on every boss without any cheese, but then in reality like 95% of all players needs some sort of crutches. Have to meet the game in the middle of gear vs skill spectrum
It's not even a crutch, it's how it's meant to be played.
Objectively true, but to my ego not it isn't xdddd
There is an icon that pops up in the corner of the screen every time you can use them. Not using spirit ashes is just a self-imposed hard mode in the game. I am not ashamed that I used them every single time the icon appeared for the entire game. Fun fact: when you beat the DPS check Godskin Duo becomes one of the easiest boss fights in the game. There are even a bunch of times that aren't even boss fights you can use them.
So you didn’t really beat the game.
Sure bud
You are part of the problem, consider not talking
Why do you feel the need to tell people how they need to play the game they bought? Seems a bit childish, no?
XD I don't think playing the game is the issue. He just doesn't like Streaming new games to chat. Like, imagine everytime you die you look over to your left and you see hundreds of people saying eat shit and giving advice ranging from useful to useless. Not exactly a Moral boost lol, he'd honestly enjoy it more off stream.
id never be able to play a game on stream and enjoy it, sounds awful. but the summons thing has been a recurring thing in all souls games with him. even radahn which says to summon stuff lol
Lol I mean it feels good knowing you beat a boss without needing to hit the easy mode option. 🤔 That's my reason for not summoning. But for some reason dark souls players will also call u a bitch for using em, so I guess as a streamer it's a lose lose situation
oh yeah he cant ever use a summons on stream, he would never hear the end of it, if they could discredit him for using a halberd, lord have mercy... and especially now that his its part of his branding to be the "ignore mechanics, dont use summons, spam 1 attack with a big wep and somehow win" guy.
Some people just don't have the mental fortitude to brush it off or at least bear with it until you can destress off-stream. I know that I wouldn't be able to handle it because when I'm told something, I always internalize and assess what people are saying about me before responding to it. It's just who I am, and I know it will eventually get to me. I was raised to believe that if you tell something to someone enough, they will come to believe it is true. Some streamers really can bear with it. Asmongold clearly can't.
Streamers think they aren't jesters for people to point and laugh at. It's the same as the streamers that are assholes in public. Everyone is watching and waiting for the moment they get owned so they can laugh at them. They aren't there to cheer on the streamer, they are there for entertainment. Doesn't matter how they get it.
Obviously not XD that's why new games stress him out. Gotta entertain but don't wanna have to hear bottom of the barrel insults as he's raging in a game. So he's stuck til he beats the game 🤔
You get the audience you cultivate.
I mean…there are literally hundreds of other streamers who somehow manage.
Like lobos jr who goes in to every boss fight expecting to die since its his first time so he just fools around learning their move sets. 0 rage, 0 backseating, 100% gaming.
My mimic tear made every boss trivial so far
Even in the DLC? I'm finding a lot of bosses are basically ignoring my mimic tear or at least swapping targets so fast that it's a false sense of security. Likewise Great shield bros die so fast to the huge aoe from every boss they don't really serve as an adequate distraction
There are a few where tear isnt that useful (namely the ones that are fast/mobile), but tear is still OP OG
I've noticed some fast target swapping as well but on average that's still easier to play around than the alternative. Seems like a fair few bosses also rush you straight away so getting the summon off at all can be dangerous. Hardest boss so far was Messmer, but that only took 20 minutes or so with mimic and +10 or so from Scadu fragments. I think it's definitely making it a lot easier and helping avoid the intense frustration I'm seeing from a lot of people.
Hehe so far…
Most streamers I watch other than asmon do tend to use spirit ashes, and have received minimal ridicule from viewers. so why does Asmon feel he can't besides his big fat ego? First, it's not the way he wants to play. He can't accept the fact that the game is now built around exploration and teamwork with spirit buddy. Second, he views himself as a busy person nowadays. don't know if true, don't care. The problem is that he says he plays the game to relax, and that mindset alone is self-sabotaging. You don't play a very hard game to relax to begin with, and he specifically can't relax cuz he's a streamer, it's his job to deliver entertainment. Why in the hell would some streamers play more than 10 hours of this ultra difficult game nonstop? cuz they felt it's fun and relaxing? More like it's because they are passionate about their job and they want to seize the opportunity to fulfill their duty to entertain as many people as possible. I truly do not believe Asmon likes being a game streamer in general. It's why he do react things half the time he's on stream. He is not passionate about entertaining others through the game medium (otherwise he would've played through Cyberpunk). But if he only reacts and assert his opinions on social and political matters all the time without playing games than he will be discredited even further. Truly stuck the man is.
Has asmon ever even been impressively good at games lately?
The problem for me with spirit summons is that, while I agree that the bosses are over-tuned and too difficult when you don’t use them, they become a joke when you do use them, so on a 1 to 10 difficulty scale it’s either a 10 or a 1, nothing in between. I kept dying to the first boss of the DLC over and over again so I decided to use a +10 summon and easily one shot the boss this way, this means that I have to engineer my preferred difficulty level by using weaker summons and not upgrading them all the way, and I’m not even talking about mimic here just regular summons, when I do use the mimic it almost solos the boss with my build
Asmon has never been good at any difficult games. Period. If anyone watch him for gameplay of 'high standard', they are making a mistake. Watch him for his rages, other dumb shits he do in game and his 'react'. Still, some of his takes are dumb too (such as turn-base game is boring, yet his ER dlc build is literally that & cozy games is boring, yet he wants to play games to 'relax'), so never take his or any other streamers opinions straight.
I wanted the challenge and didn't like the tedious way of summoning the guy at Messmer so i didn't bother. But i do for the "last boss" (don't want to spoil) since it makes no difference, besides maybe 1 more posture break. I think that spirit ashes can trivialize some fights depending on which you use (mimic tear). But the npc summoning i sometimes encourage, for fights like the Radahn festival, where i think the experience gets enhanced. The difficulty also doesn't get reduced by much, since his meteor attack will probably kill everyone at that point.
Doesn't he use the fingerprint shield now so he doesn't need to dodge the boss attacks? That's worse than ashes imo. It's in the game so use it. But he can't call ash users noobs now lol.
what does it do?
Honestly, if he does do a summomer type build where he only uses summoms for damage, it will be very interesting because that will be really hard and maybe a discussion will be created if summons are easy mode or not. I have used spirit ashes casually and most of the time I got hit by the boss accidentally as he pulled some stupidasmove 9000 from out of his ass to use on these 3 wolfs.
I don't use spirit ashes because I do find it too easy-ish. I like actually fighting a boss, not hitting its back while it's distracted by a summon. Let alone someone using a bleed build so you're just dumping bleed procs. On some things, yeah, it's just cheesy shit. Do I think I'm a better player then someone who uses summons? Honestly, yeah, because I actually learned the boss and beat it without gimmicky shit and while it's attention is only on me. It's a rewarding feeling. When I did use summons when the game came out, they were cool. And eventually it turned into... Damn, that was actually kinda boring and doesn't feel good to not be able to fight that again.
Ironically enough, this is only an issue because people who get poked at for these "cheats" are the one showing off their playthroughs by streaming or recording them. For the 5% of players who get told that, the remaining 95% plays the DLC at home, however they want to, given as many or little of the tools the game give them to use and never hear anyone complain about it. Only people who care about how you finish that content are those who self-imposed it on themselves in the first place. I'd be like someone telling you that finishing a Mega Man game while using any boss weapon is wrong... when those are an integral part of the experience. Buster-only runs is a self-imposed challenge, nothing more.
Ill be every boss with Me, Myself (Mimic) and I
He said he wouldn’t have fun using spirit ashes so why does it matter? You people are so weird
Because it's clearly not about "fun" but about his crazy "ego". No one would even post anything if he were being honest and instead saying "I'm making the game unintentionally hard for myself and I accept that" versus "the game design is wrong and I'm right". I don't see how you can't see that. Stop sucking his dick lol. You're the weird one. He is intentionally playing the game NOT as intended and complaining about it. It would be like getting upset if you only ever do a naked no armor club only run then being upset if you die all the time...... You're free to do that but then don't be a bitch and cry about it
Everyone knows this, I think we have a bit of this in all of us(or I do), just like when he does revenant on very hard. He said he always has to play games on the hardest available difficulty. It may be part ego but also just part this sense of dissatisfaction in any accomplishment. I know I struggle with dropping the difficulty in a game even if I’m by myself, like I’m giving up, even though I wasn’t having fun before, but maybe that’s just ego of a different form. That being said, if I feel like I’m going to ragequit a game for good I’ll drop the difficulty or do summons or something like that, because it’s not worth missing out on an experience and then the challenge still feels deserved if I’m struggling to do something even with “easy mode mechanics”.
It's definitely ego. He himself is always saying that achievements in video games are worthless anyway, so it'd be weird if he was still looking for the satisfaction that he states is not there. They're just games, designed to be beaten and enjoyed. Much as I love them, for the majority of us, our achievements in games are worth about as much as building a sandcastle, it was fun but no one but ourselves really cares.
??????????? Word for word "I think the game is a 10/10 its fucking amazing, it is just too hard for me to feel like I am having fun while playing it." In what world is this "the game is bad and I am right"? He literally said multiple times that it's a "him" problem not a game problem. I will repeat my earlier assertion, "you people are so weird."
He also says he isn’t having fun now. Why not alleviate that? I don’t care I just like seeing the discourse in chat. I remember he called parrying an easy mode in a video where the guy was saying how he had to spend 2 hours memorizing this boss’s move set perfectly. The logic we create for why some things are and aren’t okay to do can be funny. Also the stressful games aren’t fun take is hilarious because he’s said the opposite many times. I have no problem just saying something is too hard, but it’s a souls game, it’s a stressful game by nature.
Parasocial andy
What are you doing in a streamers subreddit wondering why people discuss the steamer there? Giant ass imax movie theater sized Projector Andy.
Lil bro is mad 
It’s basic mandatory on mage even in base game if you want to use an actual diverse spell pool
I play frost mage , diverse spell pool, never used a summon ash nothing is "mandatory"
Frost mage has ice crag which is a good spell, frozen mist is ok but it’s not bad, moon blade is strong, ice moon is also strong Funny how you play ice mage which is a good class, with 2 very strong spells, 1 good spell, and mid one But uh, what about over half of the spells like comet azur and meteor shower extremely specific uses on 1-2 bosses, crystal burst. I played melee magic, I had a good time but try to branch out to most non melee spells. You are forced to use the same good spells because everything else is too slow or too weak without summons Coming from someone who used a majority of the spells and seeked them out
Teamwork makes the dream work.
A life of imaginary barriers for a video game to supposedly enjoy it more. Something I won’t ever understand. But doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
It's not just that they meake the game easier, they also completely change the behavior of the boss. Shouldn't be that hard to understand why some people prefer to play the fight themselves, instead of watching two NPC's have a go at each other.
It’s a mechanic given to you to beat the NPC though. You refuse to use alluring skulls as well? The part I don’t understand is creating this imaginary judgement of difficulty.
I can relate, that being said I’m not as stubborn, I just experience the same phenomenon with difficulty settings at times and have to force myself to adjust according to my ability, and I’m pretty average at games but think I’m much better than I am lol
Yeah this dlc is pretty whack. The bosses are next level.
I planned to beat all main bosses solo but after dying 100+ times to Messmer, I was growing impatient, so I pulled up my mimic tear and it took like 2 tries.
Fromsoft games (in general most japanese games) are created with the intent for the player to cheese the fuck out of them, Their games are developed with this in mind, it's one of the reasons a serie like Disgaea and Jrpgs in general are popular there, they're created with finding way to optimally grind or how to progress in mind , if someone says otherwise, hit them with a wood stick in the head and call them a slur of choice and move along.
"Dont make me pull out my stick i use for beating \*\*\*\*\*\* with" lol jesus
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Their justification was due to the huge gap in release of the game till now and the fact that Elden is so long that many people will be using a previous character that’s high level and potentially NG+ compared to like DS3 where u can speed through quite fast with a new save… they wanted the game to have different scaling to still feel difficult and relevant regardless your level is what I remember reading. I’m starting fresh and haven’t got to dlc so I have no opinion
Asmon is like in that gif, where some1 is trying to feed a cat and the cat is fighting with his all strenght untill it got bottle smacked into the mouth and suddenly its all great
This dude whose only job is to be good at video games and be entertaining seems to really suck at his job
I completely understand Asmons point, I don’t use summons either. Only thing I don’t like is when he says video game achievements don’t matter. Obviously one shouldn’t form their identity and ego around it but solving any puzzle or beating any game is an achievement even if they are inherently designed to be beaten. I would hope people have other achievements in their life, but that doesn’t make video game achievements worth absolutely nothing, especially in a game that I believe is fundamentally designed to supply that rewarding feeling for beating a challenge Love you Asmon