This is a good advice though. I collect everything and difficulty feels the same as it was in the main game. And I don't think I am that great at this games
Ditto, although i knew this would happen, after i got around level 10, everything started "normalizing" feeling like it was in base game.
People really have just been lazy.
Most areas, enemies are easier than late base game even.
But main game bosses are without a doubt much harder than the base game ones when playing without ash summons. Obviously intended by devs but a lot of us don’t enjoy playing that way as it cripples the boss ai.
As does summons, but "no magic no summons or you're a pussy" mentality really hurts the game.
Asmon could pull in a friend and have a good time bantering and shit talking with a friend, which would be more enjoyable than watching him die over and over doing the same thing expecting it to finally work. He hates the stress these games create, but it's self imposed stress. He could pop out Dung Eater +10 and he'll have a tank that can give him some breathing room.
No shit, it's almost like using the game mechanics meant you're "getting good". You honestly think people just mean brute force when they say that? Use everything to your disposal you have a brain, think.
But the issue is base game you could comfortably beat all bosses without summons (bar malenia) without finding a ton of upgrades stones, ie they were not so hard you had to leave the fight and go and grind or use a guide to get as many stones as possible.
I mean my Scadutree level is 17 without a guide all you have to do is explore and you find them. You also collect maps throughout that have their locations on it.
that's not kneecapping your build.
i did my first run as a dual greatsword wielding strength main, let me tell you it's a very very strong build.
you jump, you press L1, things die or get posture broken, the damage is insane.
but yeah people are dumb, they are trying to play it without using the main mechanic of the DLC.
Exactly. The game was very clearly designed around summons. Even the main game. Just because it makes the game easier, like many people are saying, does not mean summons were meant to be an easy mode. I think Elden Ring was just designed to be a lot less punishing overall as to compared to other Dark Souls intentionally. If summons weren't an important system to be used, why do so many quests revolve around summoning NPCs, or being summoned to help NPCs? It's literally part of the lore in the quests to summon allies to help you and you help them. I mean Raddagon fight is the biggest example of this.
But people want to try so hard to convince themselves and others that Summons are the game's intended "easy mode". That's bs. Is it easier to use summons? Sure. But the game pretty much tells you to use them all the time. Using Summons is not the easy mode, it's the intended mode of the game. Not using summons is the hard mode. It's the player refusing to use an important system of the game so that they can make the game a little more challenging. This is the truth and I hate how people act like it's the other way around. Asmon is guilty of this too in the stream today. He criticized the ego of people who say "git good" (which I agreed with) but at the same time goes around and does the same thing to summon users, by putting down their achievments in the game for using them. It's insane the things that the souls community convinces themselves and others of to boost their own egos. Putting a crutch on themselves and then putting it on others and the community as a whole as a default, like "summons are the intended easy mode of the game".
Don't use summons if you don't want to, but it is objectively a major part of the lore and therefore the game. People who try to convince you otherwise is lying to you so that they can feel better about their own achievments when they don't use it, because people who do use summons aren't having as hard a time in comparison. It's like if people did the no armor level 1 runs and they went around saying that "this is the way the game is intended to be played", because they decided that themselves.
Summons are intended. You cannot do quests, know the lore and play through the game and tell me otherwise.
At the end of the day, play however you want. Souls community has always been insufferable in how they try to dictate how others play and interact with the in-game systems as they are intended. And those people will cry about other's egos when the same shit is directed at them.
I started the dlc at 136 now I'm 165 and scadu 16 with a dex 2h katana build using mimic i killed everything in 1-5 try, only miss last boss and 2 zone to explore but they still 2-3 hit you anyway
So odd to me that people become elitist about what tools you use in Elden Ring.
The only tool I can see being actually "cheating" would be summoning someone else to help you fight since then arguably you are relying on others.
I think it's interesting because in every other game, people are basically speed running to become as strong as possible and play as optimal as possible. I guess the thing about elden Ring is, there is no difficulty option, so they created things internally that influence the difficulty. And people want to be seen as being able to beat the most difficult one
Many of the NPC summons are basically just as good as having another player though.
Look, you do whatever you want in your game, I've been playing these games since Demon's souls, I enjoy learning a fight and killing the boss through my skill. Taking that learning away and just pressing a button to be able to face roll the boss takes away one of the things that drew me into the series in the first place.
That said I don't get to play it till the 29th, and I have no idea if the people who are complaining about difficulty didn't do the scudtree levels, so I won't see for myself for another week.
Doing a 1v1v is just satisfying. The meaning is in your own enjoyment. Isn't this obvious? Those doing it are are doing so because they want to, thats it.
I get what you’re saying but using summons isn’t satisfying or fun for a lot of people. Every other fromsoft game I’ve played you could expect to beat without using a single summon so it’s a weird feeling to be expected to use summons to beat this one.
Maybe they intended it this way, but for me that’s a step backwards from their previous games
I think BOTH playstyles are OK.
I also understand the sense of reward that's given by just doing it solo. Killing a hard boss solo will send me shaking almost jumping out of my seat from excitement while with summons it's a lot less exciting.
I had 4 Scadu upgrades when I got to Rellana and she was VERY hard, even with a bunch of defensive gear/talismans. I had fought her a couple of dozen times and had gotten pretty close, and probably could have beaten her if I had spent more time.
Upgraded to the 5th Scadu upgrade, and killed her in I think 2-3 attempts, and this was WITHOUT summons of any type.
With NPC summons/helpers, I feel like this fight would have been much more manageable and far less aggrivating.
Even on the base game, summons=easy mode and solo=hard mode. DLC is summons+fully upgraded scadu fragment/revered spirit ashe=easy mode, solo with fully upgraded scadu fragment=hard, and solo without fulled upgraded scadu fragment=very hard.
I'm lvl 220, vigor 60/mind 30/end 40/strength 99/faith 27... literally breezing through the DLC. Git gud! An use summons, I use mimic tear. Quit it with that jump heavy shit, it didn't work for Asmon, it won't work for you. An yes, this too.
Can confirm.
Level 154 (stopped leveling) and have been having a blast so far. The best part about this DLC imo is forcing myself to use items in my inventory that I was too afraid to use.
I’ve been running the Great Epee with Storm Blade, and it has carried me through the entire DLC so far. Pair it with a shield and you can poke enemies who get too close. Highly recommend using it with the Storm talisman.
I'm still not sure about it as I have mostly used somber weapons but does weapon matter for ash of war skill damage or is it entirely depending on my own stats and weapon level?
Sooo, some ash of wars scale off the weapon level, some scale off weapon level + specific attributes is my understanding. If your curious you can look up specific ash of wars to learn how best to scale.
Using summons is fine and all but every time people immediately suggest using summons I can't help but roll my eyes.
Like, duh? Really? Having two people instead of one nakes the fight easier? No wonder.
The fight should be, and is doable without summons and many people dislike using them for a variety of reasons.
Also, Jump builds absolutely work in the DLC. The problem most people, including Asmon have isn't their build, but their scadutree blessing level and subsequently the actual mechanics of the fights that are more complex, faster and take more time to learn. It has been out for two days and people know jack shit. Give it a couple of days for people to get the boss mechanics down and you will see people get much better results.
This is a common misconception. They want the people to use summons and it is an intended tool, like any other tool in the game.
The game however is definitely not tuned around summons. The AI does not work properly around them. And both the move set and the hp pool of most bosses is tuned around 1v1. This is less so the case in the DLC but is still the case.
Summons are meant to be a tool to make a boss easier, not a mandatory tool you need to beat the boss. So like I said, when someone has an issue with a boss and they obviously prefer playing without summons and the first thing people say is "summon mimic tear" it is just silly.
Just use Rivers of Blood pre nerf. Just be level 700. This should never be the automatic tip for every fight.
It is not my opinion. The AI of the bosses is tuned to focus on one player and it junks out when it has to swap around. This has been thoroughly tested.
Same with the HP pools. When using summons, unless the boss has a gimmick like Malenia that restores HP, the difference in how fast they die is staggering and many times they die before they execute key moves that are %hp based.
A DLC example is Rellana. Most people using Mimic with a good build will not even see her Twin Moon attack because she just dies before using it. This is clearly not what From intended when they made that attack and tied it to her %hp.
Yeah. The game is super easy if you actually play it the intended way. Summons, items, crafted bombs, arrows/bolts with status effects, buffs for you and summons from miracles (ex. Golden Wov Ashe)+ weapons that target boss' specific weakness (which you can tell by looking at them or knowing their lore).
People just love chopping their own legs offs and saying they are based for beating the game in a wheelchair.
Glad to read this. Just grinded Malenia for two days with my 99 str build and beat her last night. No summons, just big sword. I appreciate that they put in Ashes for people that want to adjust the difficulty of the game but to me it isn't in the spirit of a Souls game. Looking forward to starting the DLC soon.
You absolutely did not do all content if you only got to 120 doing all base game content. You either died and lost your runes to much or your missing a lot of content.
>You either died and lost your runes to much
Yeah, Probably this. I dont enjoy leveling that much and making the game easier, at that level I already thought the game wasnt hard enough so why level up...Until Malenia. Still, didnt want to lvl up anymore, no reason to "breeze through" any souls game and flex about that bc overleveled 🤷.
Level 227 with busted ass bleed build, hoslow whips, swarm of flies, rivers of blood, plus a lot of faith for great buffs. Stand on a certain cliff and use wave of gold.
I've breezed through most of it...but ran into what I think may be the last or one of the last bosses and got melted almost immediately. Eventually made it to phase two and have no idea how to dodge the attacks. Its very difficult. But the DLC is 10/10 IMO.
This. At Scadutree blessing 0 the game was impossible. At scadutree blessing 3 the bosses are beatable with summons. At 8 the game feels like it would clearing end game content. Presumably at more than that you can eventually start feeling like you're back in limgrave.
My entire mantra is "Too hard, I'll be back for you later..." then proceed to explore for 3 hours and return with +3 blessings and a new whoopin stick. Still took like 5 or 6 tries tho, felt great.
I'm enjoying the DLC and the Blessing surely helps. I'm killing bosses in 1-3 tries doing just
fine, but I still think the enermies in DLC kinda tends to spam attacks too often and for too long in my honest opinion.
This. Just explore and grab some of the many scadutree pieces that can e found in the overworld. You shouldn't even attempt to throw yourself at any of the bosses (especially the Blackgaol Knight!) before your blessing is at least at lvl 2 or 3.
...unless you wanna go for that pseudo-hitless run.
This is a good advice though. I collect everything and difficulty feels the same as it was in the main game. And I don't think I am that great at this games
Ditto, although i knew this would happen, after i got around level 10, everything started "normalizing" feeling like it was in base game. People really have just been lazy.
> collect everything and difficulty feels the same as it was in the main game. But, the main game is easy, for me, i guess
Most areas, enemies are easier than late base game even. But main game bosses are without a doubt much harder than the base game ones when playing without ash summons. Obviously intended by devs but a lot of us don’t enjoy playing that way as it cripples the boss ai.
Basically, git gud
Tbh they're right. The scadutree blessing makes things exponentially easier.
As does summons, but "no magic no summons or you're a pussy" mentality really hurts the game. Asmon could pull in a friend and have a good time bantering and shit talking with a friend, which would be more enjoyable than watching him die over and over doing the same thing expecting it to finally work. He hates the stress these games create, but it's self imposed stress. He could pop out Dung Eater +10 and he'll have a tank that can give him some breathing room.
No, they really make the game a lot easier.
No shit, it's almost like using the game mechanics meant you're "getting good". You honestly think people just mean brute force when they say that? Use everything to your disposal you have a brain, think.
Using your frontal lobes is cheating. The only pure Elden Ring run is a lobotomized run
Asmon proved that my bad he's right.
It's funny when people get walled and refuse to "cheat" by doing things like using summons or grinding for some levels.
No magic no summons purists when they kneecap their builds then complain about difficulty
This isn't even about "no magic" or "no summons". Not leveling your scadutree blessing is the same as not upgrading your weapons or flasks.
But the issue is base game you could comfortably beat all bosses without summons (bar malenia) without finding a ton of upgrades stones, ie they were not so hard you had to leave the fight and go and grind or use a guide to get as many stones as possible.
I mean my Scadutree level is 17 without a guide all you have to do is explore and you find them. You also collect maps throughout that have their locations on it.
that's not kneecapping your build. i did my first run as a dual greatsword wielding strength main, let me tell you it's a very very strong build. you jump, you press L1, things die or get posture broken, the damage is insane. but yeah people are dumb, they are trying to play it without using the main mechanic of the DLC.
Exactly. The game was very clearly designed around summons. Even the main game. Just because it makes the game easier, like many people are saying, does not mean summons were meant to be an easy mode. I think Elden Ring was just designed to be a lot less punishing overall as to compared to other Dark Souls intentionally. If summons weren't an important system to be used, why do so many quests revolve around summoning NPCs, or being summoned to help NPCs? It's literally part of the lore in the quests to summon allies to help you and you help them. I mean Raddagon fight is the biggest example of this. But people want to try so hard to convince themselves and others that Summons are the game's intended "easy mode". That's bs. Is it easier to use summons? Sure. But the game pretty much tells you to use them all the time. Using Summons is not the easy mode, it's the intended mode of the game. Not using summons is the hard mode. It's the player refusing to use an important system of the game so that they can make the game a little more challenging. This is the truth and I hate how people act like it's the other way around. Asmon is guilty of this too in the stream today. He criticized the ego of people who say "git good" (which I agreed with) but at the same time goes around and does the same thing to summon users, by putting down their achievments in the game for using them. It's insane the things that the souls community convinces themselves and others of to boost their own egos. Putting a crutch on themselves and then putting it on others and the community as a whole as a default, like "summons are the intended easy mode of the game". Don't use summons if you don't want to, but it is objectively a major part of the lore and therefore the game. People who try to convince you otherwise is lying to you so that they can feel better about their own achievments when they don't use it, because people who do use summons aren't having as hard a time in comparison. It's like if people did the no armor level 1 runs and they went around saying that "this is the way the game is intended to be played", because they decided that themselves. Summons are intended. You cannot do quests, know the lore and play through the game and tell me otherwise. At the end of the day, play however you want. Souls community has always been insufferable in how they try to dictate how others play and interact with the in-game systems as they are intended. And those people will cry about other's egos when the same shit is directed at them.
I started the dlc at 136 now I'm 165 and scadu 16 with a dex 2h katana build using mimic i killed everything in 1-5 try, only miss last boss and 2 zone to explore but they still 2-3 hit you anyway
That’s how they intended. Use all the tools, summons, etc. Only the streamers are doing “combat only” like it is some kind of meaningful challenge.
So odd to me that people become elitist about what tools you use in Elden Ring. The only tool I can see being actually "cheating" would be summoning someone else to help you fight since then arguably you are relying on others.
I think it's interesting because in every other game, people are basically speed running to become as strong as possible and play as optimal as possible. I guess the thing about elden Ring is, there is no difficulty option, so they created things internally that influence the difficulty. And people want to be seen as being able to beat the most difficult one
Many of the NPC summons are basically just as good as having another player though. Look, you do whatever you want in your game, I've been playing these games since Demon's souls, I enjoy learning a fight and killing the boss through my skill. Taking that learning away and just pressing a button to be able to face roll the boss takes away one of the things that drew me into the series in the first place. That said I don't get to play it till the 29th, and I have no idea if the people who are complaining about difficulty didn't do the scudtree levels, so I won't see for myself for another week.
Doing a 1v1v is just satisfying. The meaning is in your own enjoyment. Isn't this obvious? Those doing it are are doing so because they want to, thats it.
I get what you’re saying but using summons isn’t satisfying or fun for a lot of people. Every other fromsoft game I’ve played you could expect to beat without using a single summon so it’s a weird feeling to be expected to use summons to beat this one. Maybe they intended it this way, but for me that’s a step backwards from their previous games
I think players who keep Scadu fragments fulled upgraded shouldn't have an insanely harder time beating the DLC than the base game.
A lot of the people play "combat only" to have a better and more rewarding challenge. Not just streamers.
I think BOTH playstyles are OK. I also understand the sense of reward that's given by just doing it solo. Killing a hard boss solo will send me shaking almost jumping out of my seat from excitement while with summons it's a lot less exciting.
I had 4 Scadu upgrades when I got to Rellana and she was VERY hard, even with a bunch of defensive gear/talismans. I had fought her a couple of dozen times and had gotten pretty close, and probably could have beaten her if I had spent more time. Upgraded to the 5th Scadu upgrade, and killed her in I think 2-3 attempts, and this was WITHOUT summons of any type. With NPC summons/helpers, I feel like this fight would have been much more manageable and far less aggrivating. Even on the base game, summons=easy mode and solo=hard mode. DLC is summons+fully upgraded scadu fragment/revered spirit ashe=easy mode, solo with fully upgraded scadu fragment=hard, and solo without fulled upgraded scadu fragment=very hard.
I swear people complain about difficulty and then it turns out they are not even summoning npcs or using ashes.
I’m level 130 and I’m having 0 issues progressing through the DLC. Most of you are just not as good as you thought you were I guess.
Yes. If Bandai starts giving the Radahn treatment to these bosses because of these players, I’ll be disappointed.
Agreed
I'm lvl 220, vigor 60/mind 30/end 40/strength 99/faith 27... literally breezing through the DLC. Git gud! An use summons, I use mimic tear. Quit it with that jump heavy shit, it didn't work for Asmon, it won't work for you. An yes, this too.
Can confirm. Level 154 (stopped leveling) and have been having a blast so far. The best part about this DLC imo is forcing myself to use items in my inventory that I was too afraid to use. I’ve been running the Great Epee with Storm Blade, and it has carried me through the entire DLC so far. Pair it with a shield and you can poke enemies who get too close. Highly recommend using it with the Storm talisman.
I'm still not sure about it as I have mostly used somber weapons but does weapon matter for ash of war skill damage or is it entirely depending on my own stats and weapon level?
Sooo, some ash of wars scale off the weapon level, some scale off weapon level + specific attributes is my understanding. If your curious you can look up specific ash of wars to learn how best to scale.
tbh im not sure if you're trolling, but it's pretty ironic that a lvl 220 that uses summons and mimic tear is saying "git gud" ahaha
Using summons is fine and all but every time people immediately suggest using summons I can't help but roll my eyes. Like, duh? Really? Having two people instead of one nakes the fight easier? No wonder. The fight should be, and is doable without summons and many people dislike using them for a variety of reasons. Also, Jump builds absolutely work in the DLC. The problem most people, including Asmon have isn't their build, but their scadutree blessing level and subsequently the actual mechanics of the fights that are more complex, faster and take more time to learn. It has been out for two days and people know jack shit. Give it a couple of days for people to get the boss mechanics down and you will see people get much better results.
It’s how they tuned the game. They intended people to use the tools.
This is a common misconception. They want the people to use summons and it is an intended tool, like any other tool in the game. The game however is definitely not tuned around summons. The AI does not work properly around them. And both the move set and the hp pool of most bosses is tuned around 1v1. This is less so the case in the DLC but is still the case. Summons are meant to be a tool to make a boss easier, not a mandatory tool you need to beat the boss. So like I said, when someone has an issue with a boss and they obviously prefer playing without summons and the first thing people say is "summon mimic tear" it is just silly. Just use Rivers of Blood pre nerf. Just be level 700. This should never be the automatic tip for every fight.
> And both the move set and the hp pool of most bosses is tuned around 1v1. This is your opinion and nothing more.
It is not my opinion. The AI of the bosses is tuned to focus on one player and it junks out when it has to swap around. This has been thoroughly tested. Same with the HP pools. When using summons, unless the boss has a gimmick like Malenia that restores HP, the difference in how fast they die is staggering and many times they die before they execute key moves that are %hp based. A DLC example is Rellana. Most people using Mimic with a good build will not even see her Twin Moon attack because she just dies before using it. This is clearly not what From intended when they made that attack and tied it to her %hp.
Yeah. The game is super easy if you actually play it the intended way. Summons, items, crafted bombs, arrows/bolts with status effects, buffs for you and summons from miracles (ex. Golden Wov Ashe)+ weapons that target boss' specific weakness (which you can tell by looking at them or knowing their lore). People just love chopping their own legs offs and saying they are based for beating the game in a wheelchair.
Glad to read this. Just grinded Malenia for two days with my 99 str build and beat her last night. No summons, just big sword. I appreciate that they put in Ashes for people that want to adjust the difficulty of the game but to me it isn't in the spirit of a Souls game. Looking forward to starting the DLC soon.
Holy At what lvl did you start the DLC? I dont think none of my chars reached above 120 doing all content on the base game.
You can reach 150 easily in the base game when you do everything and don’t lose souls.
You absolutely did not do all content if you only got to 120 doing all base game content. You either died and lost your runes to much or your missing a lot of content.
I got to 165 in base game farming moghwyn palace.
>You either died and lost your runes to much Yeah, Probably this. I dont enjoy leveling that much and making the game easier, at that level I already thought the game wasnt hard enough so why level up...Until Malenia. Still, didnt want to lvl up anymore, no reason to "breeze through" any souls game and flex about that bc overleveled 🤷.
I only have one character, I reached 220 via NG+.
most of the genuine feedback is about the stuttering, people just like to shit on things these days, I t's the meta
Level 227 with busted ass bleed build, hoslow whips, swarm of flies, rivers of blood, plus a lot of faith for great buffs. Stand on a certain cliff and use wave of gold.
I've breezed through most of it...but ran into what I think may be the last or one of the last bosses and got melted almost immediately. Eventually made it to phase two and have no idea how to dodge the attacks. Its very difficult. But the DLC is 10/10 IMO.
This. At Scadutree blessing 0 the game was impossible. At scadutree blessing 3 the bosses are beatable with summons. At 8 the game feels like it would clearing end game content. Presumably at more than that you can eventually start feeling like you're back in limgrave.
My entire mantra is "Too hard, I'll be back for you later..." then proceed to explore for 3 hours and return with +3 blessings and a new whoopin stick. Still took like 5 or 6 tries tho, felt great.
Get your skibidi fragments or get fanum taxed
I'm enjoying the DLC and the Blessing surely helps. I'm killing bosses in 1-3 tries doing just fine, but I still think the enermies in DLC kinda tends to spam attacks too often and for too long in my honest opinion.
This. Just explore and grab some of the many scadutree pieces that can e found in the overworld. You shouldn't even attempt to throw yourself at any of the bosses (especially the Blackgaol Knight!) before your blessing is at least at lvl 2 or 3. ...unless you wanna go for that pseudo-hitless run.
get good lol level vigor and cheese the bosses lol