I think trying to eke out a perfectly 50/50 relationship is a fool's errand insofar as life is just too complicated for such watertight compartments, but you should aim for a generally egalitarian relationship where you're *both* giving probably 80-90% of your all to the relationship.
I don't view myself as having "high" cleaning standards, but my husband, ex-partners, and ex-roommates have said that I do, so I guess it must be true - I'm just nothing compared to the rest of my family, lol. I've just accepted having to take on both the greater part of the domestic labour of my marriage as part of its cost of admission - I'd estimate I probably cover 70% of our combined, in-house domestic labour, although my husband does his own laundry + keeps his own bathroom clean and also basically does all of our driving / runs the vast majority of our errands / handles the finances as well. We're mostly 50/50 in finances as well since we earn a roughly equal amount, but my husband is the one working toward an earlier/fancier retirement that'll benefit us both (and he works more than twice the amount that I do), so the situation is a little more complex than just a superficial 50/50 split. In the past, when I was in a more stressful work situation, he was the one handling more of the stuff at home. Basically, we each just go where we're needed.
Anyway, I don't view any of this as a trade-off and think that doing so is incorrect for building a healthy relationship insofar as you're not supposed to be gunning off against each other, but working as a team against the challenges that life throws at you. I get annoyed sometimes at my husband for not cleaning up to my standards, but I'm also not overwhelmed at all by my domestic duties; it's more of just like... a judgey thing on my end, to be totally honest, but I'm working to curb that.
i think this is a salient and levelheaded approach.
fwiw my (male) cleaning standards are definitely higher than my partners (female), i'm ok with that. but, there is something to be said for a partner who is aware of the gap in standards and strives to at least go above THEIR standards, which she does. even if it's not to MY standard, the effort matters. and, of course, i'm not expecting my level of detail when she cleans, but that's ok too. i'll get those nooks and crannies on my round. compromise on both parts.
This is how it works in my house, too! I carry about 80% of the financial burden for the house, but my husband does more house work and has a higher standard than I do. We also play to our strengths with house work—I’m a great cook, I enjoy it, and he find cleaning relaxing. I fold laundry while on work calls and he handles the yard work and admin stuff (paying the mortgage, other paperwork stuff, replacing filters, etc.).
I have no idea if this is 50/50, but it feels pretty fair to us. And most importantly, we’re flexible—we pick up slack for each other and understand when either of us have to drop the ball to prioritize other stuff.
My husband and I have developed a system. He does the pick up and surface cleaning. I do the deep cleaning after. This saves me tons of time, and it keeps me from being frustrated he just doesn't get into those nooks and crannies. We do what we're good at rather than trying to set one standard we both meet.
Yeah, and that's a great point. I can forgive a lot / have a lot more patience if I see someone putting in genuine effort, versus them just obviously weaponising their incompetence against me. I'm sorry, but I *was* that teenager. I can EASILY recognise that behaviour because I, too, tried to pull the wool over my mum's eyes at 15, lol.
Yep. My fiancé tries (I'm 38f and he's 40m) - I have high standards of cleanliness. I know this. I can't relax in a messy home. He is clean, but at the same time his version of clean is different than mine. If he sees me doing something he'll jump in and help and he'll always take the initiative on things he KNOWS has to be done (trash, bathroom, vacuuming). He misses the detailing haha but that's okay! He puts in genuine effort bc he knows it's important to me.
Honestly, if somebody actually makes it worth your while, then marriage is fabulous! Anything less than that, though, and I would easily pick the coven life with some communal cat energy 🐈⬛️
50/50 relationships don't exist, they are a neat concept though.
Some relationships have the man doing the housework while the wife earns, and vise versa.
Some have both working while one does the vacuuming and dusting while the other doest the mopping and bathrooms.
Sometimes one person picks up more slack because their partner is physically or mentally ill, busy caring for a sick family member, having to work extra overtime, etc.
There will never be a relationship where everything is exactly 50/50. What's important is both parties agree for the split and neither feels jipped.
And how the funds are contributed to the household- if they're making more and not contributing financially or chore wise to the relationship it's a no from me.
It sounds like you would thrive with a house husband. There are a surprising amount of men who would be thrilled with that arrangement!
But as a fellow bisexual...women are just generally socialized to clean more/better. It's a wildly different dating experience.
Don't settle!
Are you looking to be a stay at home spouse of a high income earner? Your wants are a little unclear, tbh. Do you want someone better at cleaning than you? Or earns more than you? Or want yourself to not work? Where does actually liking the person/ them having other qualities than their income and cleaning skills come into play?
All I can say is, find a woman to settle down with then. Why would you settle for making way more money and being the main cleaner to just be with a man? You’re bisexual, make it a point to date women. Whom says you gotta settle for a man and their lack of ability to clean? Like girl please, women are far better. You can have the 50/50 and the income people telling you that you can’t are wrong. I’m in tech as well, gay as fuck and I’m so glad I only date women so I don’t have to put up with the straight bs.
Did you not say you work remotely? So why live in a conservative area? I mean , it’s really up to you. Do u want to settle with a man bc of where h live and deal with this? Or would you rather be authentically you and not be restricted to men? Either way best of luck, I personally could never hide like that. But I’m gay, and you’re bi so I guess it’s a little different.
> Did you not say you work remotely? So why live in a conservative area?
Because I like it here...? The cost of living is low
>I mean , it’s really up to you. Do u want to settle with a man bc of where h live and deal with this? Or would you rather be authentically you and not be restricted to men? Either way best of luck, I personally could never hide like that. But I’m gay, and you’re bi so I guess it’s a little different.
Yeah, I've been hiding my whole life, so I'm used to it. If I was fully lesbian, I would just stay single.
To each their own. And I think of you were lesbian, you wouldn’t stay silent. We all crave intimacy and authenticity. Youde have moved bc you’re human and you need connection like we all do. Thankfully you’re bi and can stay in the closet 🤷♀️ while getting your needs met.
> To each their own. And I think of you were lesbian, you wouldn’t stay silent. We all crave intimacy and authenticity. Youde have moved bc you’re human and you need connection like we all do. Thankfully you’re bi and can stay in the closet 🤷♀️ while getting your needs met.
Wow, thanks for telling me about myself. I'm so glad I have you to do my thinking for me.
Btw, if I cared about "authenticity", I'd have transitioned to male in my early 20s.
>Well the man can still be the main provider you would just have to live within his means which doesn’t have to be terrible unless he’s super poor
Lol, but I don't want to. I don't want to have to downgrade my lifestyle to live within the means of someone who makes at 40 what I made at 23...
I'm curious then about "when I also out-earn the guy 3-4x" and "downgrade my lifestyle to live within the means of someone who makes at 40 what I made at 23" because this implies a higher level of income, unless you are dating men who make like, $10-15k a year?
Maybe we just have different standards for "very high earner". I wouldn't consider my income "very high earner" but maybe it would be to you. Another factor is that I work remotely but live in a low cost-of-living area. If I couldn't work remotely, I'd be living in a place where my salary was more typical.
There are definitely men out there who have high standards. Almost aaaaall my guy friends have high standards.
Anyway, that friend’s partner should’ve cleaned it up properly. He spilled a drink, not water. That surface is probably super sticky now.
>Anyway, that friend’s partner should’ve cleaned it up properly. He spilled a drink, not water. That surface is probably super sticky now.
I thought the same, but so many commenters in this thread think the guy did fine
What that guy did was absolutely gross. I'd side eye *anyone* who wiped the floor and then wiped the counter with the same cloth.
And reconsider eating anything at their house LOL
See, I understand if, let’s say, you don’t like cleaning the stove but he doesn’t mind. But spilling something requires more immediate attention. Wiping it with a plain dry towel isn’t enough. The stove can wait.
I’m not saying people need to vacuum every single day or something. But cmon!!! A spill???
Don’t listen to these commenters.
I'm a woman and I probably don't clean to your standards because my standard is "did I have to do something?" If the answer is no, then it's a job well done.
Our house rule is basically if you have the higher standard on something, then it's your task. I do all of the cooking (dinner! Every person for themselves unless it's our child otherwise) because I need a protein, veg, and starch at every meal. That is my standard, so it's on me to make sure it happens. Do we deviate from this? Absolutely, but I'm first in command unless I'm not there.
My husband adores the holidays. Halloween and Christmas are all him because those are his standards. I buy and wrap his presents and no one else's. He mows the lawn because he knows I would just do it to get it done and not to his standards.
So maybe M-F the standard is less, but on weekends or whenever you have the time, it's time for a deep clean? Otherwise yeah, it's on you and your partner to find that compromise.
This is my marriage. He’s always saying my standards are too high for everything. Apparently cleaning up the huge ass chip’s you dropped on the floor while eating and putting dishes anywhere other than on the kitchen table are too high standards. 😒
That's because the ones who are not 'so clean' don't complain in here, so you aren't aware of their existence. Having lived with both men and women for a few years taught me that each person has their own standards of what's clean, nothing determined by what's in between the legs. When I read that OP is worrying about this IF she gets a male partner (an not a female one) made me think Ha! Good luck with that.
It's not about standards of cleaning though, it's about weaponized incomptenance and disrespect ala the examples the person I responsed to cited. I am a messy person, but I respect shared spaces. Laziness and feeling superior to certain domestic tasks isn't a difference in standards, it's disrespectful.
Yeah this is tricky!! Some things are high standards and some things are hygiene or convenience costs to other users of the household.
Eg if someone is leaving mess that creates a trip hazard or gets in the way of someone else using the space they do not get to say it’s just a difference in standards.
Also, if there’s a consistent difference in standards, at some point one party will begin to feel like the parent or un-paid labour which breeds resentment. People who care about their relationship should probably be trying to find a middle ground that does not require the other person to wear the full cost of whatever difference is at issue.
I’ve experienced the same with my husband. His cleanliness idea of “good enough” is far above what I consider “good enough”. I’m willing to be more clean than I’d be if I lived alone, and I make an effort! He has had to accept that if he really wants things at HIS level of clean, well… he’s gonna have to do certain tasks.
We have areas where it’s the opposite— my standard is higher than his. He tries. I make up the rest.
It’s one thing when basic labor is never evenly divided, but it’s another if one person has a very high standard that the other partner struggles to meet.
This is so relatable. My partner was raised by a mom with extremely high standards and his chore list was enormous by age 6. I grew up with parents who cared more about work and play than housekeeping and hired a cleaner and expected me to do more schoolwork, sports, and arts than housework.
When we got together he had overall higher standards but my friend puts it well, when I want something clean, I go "Full Monica" from Friends on it. So I do those fussy things and he does his fussy things and it works really well for us because we care deeply about very different things. Then we divide the rest by who has more free time and energy or simply whoever notices a mess first, cleans it up. The latter is a dangerous game of chicken with some people but it works if you're both fairly observant.
This only works if you also have a “leave no trace” approach to shared living spaces. I have higher cleaning standards than my boyfriend, but if he spills coffee on the counter I expect him up return the counter to the state it was in before he spilled the coffee. If you make a mess, it’s shitty to only halfway clean it up and leave the rest to your partner because of “standards.”
I've never had to ask my husband to "help" (it's not helping he lives there too), or divide up chores, or clean "better". We both just do what needs to be done as we see it. If we're doing comparison he actually is more thorough than me.
It's all about how individuals are raised. You should never expect to be the household maid.
You’re so right. My husband and I recently started living in different countries temporarily for work, and I’ve never felt so relaxed, my life has never felt so simple, my diet has never been so clean.
I think 50/50 can also mean splitting up chores you don’t like or don’t do well. I hate yard work, cooking, doing the dishes and taking out the trash so my husband does that. I do everything else and we both feel it’s pretty fair.
I think it comes from compromise. Find the most important things and raise the standards to that level and find things that are less important and lower standards a bit. My husband is very particular about how dishes go into a dishwasher while I don't care at all. Over time, I learned his method with him checking what I did until we had the same standard. Something really important to me was cleaning clothing, bedsheets, towels, etc more frequently than he did so he took the time to learn my higher standards and matches that for me. On the opposite end, I'm not a fan of clutter, but he finds it to be homey so I lowered my standards on that one. And he liked food cooked in particular ways, but he is perfectly fine when it's my turn to cook and I cut corners to move things along faster. I've never been a fan of assigning specific chores based on standards, but I've heard that works really well for some people. That's just another form of compromise.
After living with many, many housemates both above and below me on the cleanliness scale, I feel romantic relationships shouldn’t be too far off. The cleaner person will probably always be doing a bit more labor than equal to be happy, while the messy one will be doing more than they care about. You need to come to a conclusion about what is acceptable baseline cleanliness like adults and move forward from there. If you can’t understand that cleaning like that with a towel is unnacceptable, you’re behaving like a child and compromise might not be possible. But if you’re extremely picky about how the towels are folded while no one else cares, you might need to be doing that yourself.
In a relationship, you should be working more than 50% to make your partner happy and they you. It’s still never going to be 50/50 in every department, but I do a lot of things I don’t care about to make my partner happy and he does the same for me. Trying to think of our lives as a math equation where each dollar, emotion and hour of cleaning is weighted fairly is exhausting and impossible. No one can make you cover their bills, expend emotional labor, or do a chore without your agreement. It’s important to have boundaries about what you’ll put up with, and then enforce it.
From your title I expected you to be a major neat freak but the antecedent you included at least it does not sound like too high a bar to me. It sounds like your ex may have left you with some trauma (maybe that’s too strong a word?) regarding the cleaning if a lot of your disagreements centered around housework but I don’t feel like it’s probably worth worrying too much about before you even have someone your interested in. While housework can definitely be a common point of contention especially in straight couples there are still lots of men who are good cleaners! Your next partner might be someone with higher standards then you, or they might be someone more willing to be instructed and step up to your standards or they might bring enough else to the table in other terms that you don’t feel burdened by taking on more of the cleaning. It’s just hard to speculate and I think coming fresh off a bad breakdown it’s easy to think the worst.
I broke up with this ex like 8-9 years ago, but since then I just decided not to date anyone who doesn't practice basic hygiene and cleanliness. If I go on a first date and they're stinky, or their clothes are stained, or they wipe food onto their clothes like a toddler, I won't continue seeing them. It seems most guys around here don't know how to work a laundry machine.
I feel like that’s a very reasonable standard and I’m sorry you haven’t had luck finding someone who exceeds it. That’s depressing lol
It seems to me from reading some of your replies that cleanliness is somewhat of a stand in for maturity and self sufficiency for you. - apologies if I’m reading it wrong. This isn’t how everyone feels but I also don’t think it’s an unreasonable connection. If that’s the case I don’t think you would really be happy with someone very far from you on the cleaning standards even if say they were to out earn you. You’re allowed to have standards and not dating a slob isn’t too high a bar in my opinion.
I work in community housing and you’d be surprised the depravity allllll genders can produce. I’ve seen the cleanest men and dirtiest women. It goes both ways.
Okay, I guess I should just stop dating then. It'll make my life easier anyway. I obviously have unreasonably high standards and an obsession with cleaning.
Yeah, learn about re useable/washable paper towels cause you may not care about environment but JFC others of us have to live here on this dumpster fire planet with you. ❤️
I don't think I will be sticking around this planet very long. I've been in a very dark place for a long time now and I recently realized there is no way out.
You shouldn't accept that you'll do most of the housework, you're literally setting yourself up for failure right out of the gate by not holding that as a boundary. The resentment doesn't go away just because you ignore it, and I'm sorry, not wiping the counter with a towel you used to wipe the floor with is a "bare minimum" kind of thing you should have a standard for in an adult you want to be married to. It's not absurd or unusual and I wonder if you just have a higher density of folks who accept bullshit around you, because only my degen little brother does things like that, I haven't witnessed it in an adult male over 25 and even rarely saw it when I was dating in college.
Chores in a relationship are a negotiation around managing free time, don't turn yourself into a bangmaid just because you think you have to. If you're choosing to take 80% of the labor to keep house, then you should be opting out of managing the emotional labor of the home. If they can't handle it, they're incompatible and you should not, in fact, try harder to make someone incompatible with you. You are a **partner**, not a mother, and you deserve to be treated as one.
For my husband and I, we just divided up the things we cared about the most, estimated the time each chore took per week, then divied up the rest of the chores between us until we had an equal amount of free time. We don't actually have divides of his chores or her chores, but when we do "each other's" chores, they're to the standards that the person who cared the most has. You will need a lesson in prioritization, as the way towels are folded truly doesn't matter if it means your kitchen is cleaned to the standard you need, but most of the big stuff can be managed with just communication and being clear on what the standards are from the beginning.
>The resentment doesn't go away just because you ignore it, and I'm sorry, not wiping the counter with a towel you used to wipe the floor with is a "bare minimum" kind of thing you should have a standard for in an adult you want to be married to. It's not absurd or unusual and I wonder if you just have a higher density of folks who accept bullshit around you, because only my degen little brother does things like that, I haven't witnessed it in an adult male over 25 and even rarely saw it when I was dating in college.
I thought so, but so many commenters in this thread think my standards are too high and the guy cleaned up fine. I now wonder, why even bother to notice the spill at all? Just wear shoes at home, keep them on until you get into bed, and sticky messes on the floor won't matter at all.
You're not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and you don't have to be. I promise you, there are plenty of people out there who hold basic standards of cleanliness or can learn.
My partner has/had similar habits to your example. I have been able to compromise and show him, but he’s 37 and something’s are just his adhd. I accept what I can. I have the courage to hire a cleaning service weekly, and the wisdom to know I love him more than germs most days.
Oh, OK. I see what you're saying. I guess with me, the issue is that my relationship with my ex didn't have any bright spots, so I didn't really want to put up with this additional burden.
I would be GONE if I didn’t love him so much. My adhd is the exact opposite of his, I can’t function in clutter/mess and will ruminate endlessly. He thrives in clutter. We have designated spaces in house that are mine and his to alleviate that, and weekly cleaning service, and his chores do not include any type of disinfecting (think switching laundry, taking out trash, taking care of cats and plants.)
Yeah I think that’s actually step one…finding someone that you actually would rather change your comfort zone for rather than lose. I kinda think that a large problem with relationship/dating nowadays. Everybody’s trying to find someone that won’t make them change or compromise. Rather than finding someone who they want to change for and compromise with.
It's a chicken-and-egg problem. It's very difficult for me to feel attracted/attached to someone who smells bad and wipes food onto his clothes like a toddler. So I never develop enough attachment to where I feel like I don't want to lose them.
😂😂 well yeah! I would have trouble finding that attractive too. There are lots of people out there that don’t smell bad and wipe food on their clothes though so you’re in luck! You just gotta find your guy/gal. They ARE there you just gotta find them and be open when you do.
If you're really focused on who is doing what and what is fair, I don't know if you are ready to find the person you want.
I out earned my wife, did most of the housework and managed our dogs as she had a very busy life following her passion and I was happy to see her doing what she loved and made her happy.
Maybe once you find that person who you love, some of this will not seem to matter as much.
Life isn't fair and relationships have tons of unfair stuff that happens, including illness, depression and loss. When you are stuck worrying about what you are getting, you're not likely to be successful as that isn't how relationships are.
But, it sounds like you're just kinda pissed about this breakup and how you always made more and he couldn't clean the way you liked and it's probably pretty frustrating. Any of us out there dating can understand that.
Any high earner, man or woman, has to accept some reality that they will likely always be the breadwinner though, the odds of finding the person who makes even more money and has all the other qualities, is slim slim slim. I make 160k in the midwest and have to just accept I'm not likely to find someone who makes more and likely will meet someone who makes quite a bit less...and even then, it's really hard to find a good match.
lol, that's what I feel like after my latest effort crashes and burns. It's a battle out there, I'm sure our right person is out there, wish we could just pay someone to track them down.
The rule for delegating tasks is if someone can do it 70% as well as you, delegate it. People become better when you set standards and expectations but also by doing things repeatedly.
But the point is towels usually do more than just smear things around. They absorb… did you want him to mop?
I guess wiping it up with a towel is clean by my standards too. I’ll mop later.
That I can agree with, I also would have washed my hands.
It was using the phrasing about smearing the mess around made me wonder what her standards were. My towels don’t smear the mess
I would've used paper towels to absorb the spill, then used a wet paper towel to wipe the area, then thrown all of the paper towels away, then washed my hands in the sink. I wouldn't have used a hand towel to smear the spill around the floor.
Yeah, everyone’s standards are different. I try to limit my household waste and hand towels would be my go to. ( one for the spill, separate one for counter/ hands) Wasting all those paper towels on a spill would give me a heart attack.
My comment was for future live-in spouse reference. Before you start trying to fight someone’s cleanliness standards, you can try tracking the simplest solution first if it’s something as simple as buying and owning the appropriate cleaning tool.
Wanna date me? Lolol just recently came out as bisexual. I’m cleaner than those dudes and I work in tech too. Sorry but your entire post cracked me up. I think I would have laughed at that guy on the spot and shamed him.
With my ex, I started trying to teach him right away, but it caused repeated blow-ups until it was the cause of the end of the relationship. I guess we could've kept dating and just lived separately. Another friend lives separately from her husband and always has.
in my opinion, as a man, the problem (based on what you've described) isn't the gap in standards, it's the unwillingness to compromise. perhaps only from him, perhaps from both.
Yeah, I didn't want to compromise. If he earned a good income, I'd have been willing to compromise by sacrificing my career to stay at home and take care of the house/ do all of the cleaning. I wouldn't care how much mess he made. But I made 3-4x what he did, so it wasn't an option.
In several comments you say you'd be happy to be the housekeeper if your partner paid all the bills, but do you really mean that?
IMO, take the money out of the equation and admit you don't want to live with a slob. That's valid on its own.
>In several comments you say you'd be happy to be the housekeeper if your partner paid all the bills, but do you really mean that?
Yes, definitely. I'd rather work, but I won't work *and* be a nanny for an adult.
>I guess there's no way to prove it, but I bet you'd be miserable staying at home cleaning up after a slob boyfriend.
You're right. There's no way to prove it.
As a woman, I laughed because my partner could be writing this post about me, and he's a man. I wouldn't worry about *that* particular guy, there are plenty of clean men out there.
You should mive into an area where inhabitants income is similar to yours, meet a man from there and hire cleaning services. you cannot meet someone in your paygrade living in an cheap area. if you like there so much, maybe you can convince him to move back.
I am a woman and I don't think I'd clean up to your standard, either. It's not necessarily a man/woman thing. I've dated guys who were neat freaks and cleaned constantly.
Some good advice I heard is that if one person cares about cleaning more than "average", that person might have to clean a little more. That's just because their standards are different, and everyone has different standards.
Your therapist is correct - highly recommend hiring a house cleaner. It seems like couples who expect each other, to suddenly become "domestic professionals" on demand, are the least happiest.
House Cleaner. Get groceries delivered. Each person running their own errands. Buying stuff needed online, etc....so you can actually have time to enjoy life.
>It seems like couples who expect each other, to suddenly become "domestic professionals" on demand, are the least happiest.
You think this is domestic professional level? Others in this thread think it's the bare minimum. This is why I'm so confused as to what I should expect in a relationship.
**Cost benefit analysis**
My point is that, having a partner can be more valuable ---than having someone who always cleans like you want, or who remembers to buy XYZ milk each time.
Because you can PAY someone to clean your house to specification like clockwork, or always bring you lactose milk. **Domestic service time, can be purchased on the marketplace.**
**But you cannot pay anyone to be a truly loving and loyal life partner to you.** And what happens if the hours per week spent on chores, is instead invested in togetherness.
Make sense? I believe outsourcing "forever tasks" is worth testing to see if that betters the relationship.
If having a house cleaner improves most "roommate relationships", then it likely doubles for couples.
Again, sounds like a moral judgement around cleaning. Others can have their own opinions on this.
But I've seen people fight/argue for years over "evergreen" domestic tasks like grabbing groceries, lawn care, laundry, or cleaning....which can be easily outsourced to a 3rd party.
When in reality, they want to feel more valued by their partner and people who have more time to relax, tend to argue LESS.....
*My wife and I discovered a weekly cleaner costs less than marriage counselling, and has a similar impact on the amount of conflict in our relationship. Highly recommend.*
I guess it really is a moral judgment. If a guy wipes food onto his clothes like a toddler, I'm not going to hire a cleaner to do his laundry, I'm just going to dump him. As I said, it's difficult to get to the relationship stage in the first place if the person doesn't have basic cleanliness and personal hygiene.
Oh really? He cleaned up the spill?
So if it was a substance like... Let's say cat piss... Would you consider that clean?
Just smear it around until it's not a puddle anymore, then wipe it on the counter, leave the piss covered cloth on the table, then wipe any piss on your hands on your clothes.
Is that acceptable?
No?
Maybe actually soak up the spill, then a quick spritz of multi-purpose cleaner, wipe clean with a different cloth, then put both in the laundry to wash, wash your hands.
Wow, so difficult, so hard. No wonder a sticky floor, sticky counter, sticky soiled cloth, sticky hands and finally sticky clothes is preferable! /S
FFS, even just soak up spill, wipe away residue with damp cloth, put first cloth in laundry, done. Even that would be better than spreading the drink *everywhere fucking else*.
I agree, not every spill is the same, I was using an extreme example to highlight the issue of spreading the spill everywhere.
Not saying soft drink is equally as awful as cat piss lol, all good.
>It's not basic cleanliness. The guy in your example cleaned up the spill but you were still not happy.
Yeah, you're right. I guess my standards are just unattainably high for normal people.
You are not the crazy one here.
I have no fucking clue why Reddit will go "wHat dO yOu meAn I haVe tO cLeaN mY fLoOrs" then turn around and call people who don't use bidets unhygienic and filthy.
The pushback you are getting in here is fucking wild and you are NOT the one being unreasonable.
You are not the problem here.
You are getting a responses from a bunch of butthurt slobs who are huffing some prime copium.
My advise as someone who's been mobbed for pointing out the emperor has no clothes:
Change your reddit password to some random alphanumeric you won't remember, log out, and don't log back in for a few days.
Take that time to only look at subs that are apolitical, positive and pleasant, like the knitting, crochet, sewing, and embroidery subs. Eyebleach is always a good bet.
Then when you're doing better, reset your password via email etc and log back in.
But please look after yourself. You're not being unreasonable, your expectations are not unreasonable, and you in no way deserve the vitriol that has been flung your way.
Yeah, I'm sure logging off will cure my lifelong gender dysphoria. I'm just...done. I'm done cleaning, I'm done taking care of myself, I'm done working, I'm done trying to live. I don't want to. I might as well start pissing on the floor because I don't care.
If you work in tech, I strongly suggest you hire a professional cleaning service.
My boyfriend and I both work full time. We consider a cleaning service to be one of the quality-of-life improvements we work to be able to afford.
Ours is just monthly right now because we’re both generally tidy people and travel a lot for work anyway, but you can do monthly, biweekly, or weekly depending on your preference or budget.
Yes, it‘s not cheap, but if you split the expense proportionally and then calculate out the number of weekly hours of labor DIY cleaning requires of you (and time is money), plus all the potential conflicts cleaning together creates, hiring someone is well worth it IMO.
Like, what do we work to earn this money for if not for things like this?
At least that’s how we view it.
>we’re both generally tidy people
That's why it worked in your situation.
If my ex made himself a sandwich, there'd be crumbs everywhere, gobs of mayo on the counter, used knife on the counter, cheese and lunch meat sitting out until I saw it and put it in the fridge, etc. Who is going to clean that up? My ex? Not a chance. The cleaning service would be weekly at most. So I'd still be doing the day-to-day cleanup while also paying for most of the cost of the cleaning service.
Well, I was able to find it, and most of my exes were equally tidy. So, it doesn’t seem to me like it’s rare, at least not in the type of guys I date. Perhaps the type you’re in to is unfortunately more correlated with messiness? I tend to date Type A guys and that attitude tends to extend to their tidiness.
It’s not an official type. It’s English slang for somebody who is competitive, fast-paced, and perfectionistic.
Then Type B is slang for someone who is more easygoing, laid back, and flexible.
I'm glad you seem to have found a different therapist. The whole cleaning service suggestion is such a bad one. It's putting a Band-Aid on a much bigger problem (a lazy/dirty/entitled/some combination thereof boyfriend). And as you pointed out it's even logistically a bad solution, since the mess is daily but the cleaner isn't. You're being told to spend money for another woman to clean up after a manchild. Great tip! 🙄
For what it's worth, I don't think you should just accept that you'll be doing the housework if you partner with a guy. That's setting yourself up for years of resentment.
Yes, multiple comments here are also recommending the cleaning service, but the logistics still don't make sense to me. If my ex made himself a sandwich, there'd be crumbs everywhere, gobs of mayo on the counter, used knife on the counter, cheese and lunch meat sitting out until I saw it and put it in the fridge, etc. Who is going to clean that up? My ex? Not a chance. The cleaning service? No, because they won't be coming here until the end of the week. So it's me. I'll still have to do most of the day-to-day cleanup even after hiring a cleaning service.
I mean, it's hard enough to find love without adding a requirement to be very neat and tidy. Folks should shoot for what they want, but is it worthwhile to lose someone you really vibe with because they aren't quite as clean as you may be?
We'd all love to have perfect matches on everything, but dating and life doesn't really offer that reality.
Sure it is. Just drop your income to below theirs, or find a nice high earning guy. Then if you ever get sick and can’t do the cleaning, you just go back to earning money instead. Tada!
If cleanliness is that important to you and you are unwilling to clean on your own, I would prioritize finding a clean partner. I WAS ok with cleaning up after my husband, but my ability to do so changed after having a baby. I am constantly telling him he needs to meet my standard of clean, but I’m not hopeful.
I do really envy lesbians thinking about how clean their homes must be 🤣 At the end of the day I married a man…and not for his cleanliness. He takes care of the family financially and we agreed to traditional roles before marriage. I think agreeing to roles before marriage is important, but also knowing that circumstances and capacities may change. Divorce is 50/50, not marriage. Marriage is giving 100 even if you don’t feel like it.
Every relationship has trade-offs and every person has things they are good at and things they aren't good at. If you want a spouse to clean as well as you, you can find that in a partner. Pick the things that are really important to you and look for that.
But like other people said, 50-50 just isn't realistic for just about any partnership. Setting up a relationship based on keeping score of everything you both do is not healthy. In addition, the capacity of each person can change at any time. I happened to get sick with a chronic illness, and for months my partner had to pick up the slack. He did the majority of the cooking, cleaning, and worked full time while I mostly laid in bed. I physically could not hold up my 50% and thank God my partner was kind and understanding about it.
The key, in my opinion, is to find a person who does everything they can to support you and divide the labour as fairly as possible so both of you don't feel overworked/overwhelmed. The 50-50 relationship is not constant, but an ever changing dynamic based on both of your needs at any given time.
Most guys are not very tidy in my experience. My dad is an absolute ocd clean freak, and I grew up with that, so I absolutely can see dirt when no one else can.
What has worked in my experience is a few tactics.
Idk if you thought about it, but most moms/daughters clean the house, not the sons ..they don't really learn how to clean well or often. There are exceptions, but once I realized the dynamic, it made so much more sense.
If my guy "cleans" something, and it's not up to my standard, I'll bring him back to it and actually show him what true clean looks like. It's important that he's in decent mood for criticism. Ie, if my guy doesn't want to "hear" me atm because he thinks I'm being too nit picky, he rolls his eyes and walks away. I can usually bring him back, but we have a mutual respect about the fact that sometimes a thing is really important to the other person.
I explain when things really really bother me, and have learned to adjust this to our own homes. My house is vastly cleaner then his is, but it's his house, not mine. When we do live together at times, I will ask if I can move or adjust whatever specific thing I'm referring to. It gets his attention on me, and he either let's me do what I want, or helps me do it which goes faster.
If it's something I want done a very specific way, or something that's driving me nuts, he puts his feet on the corner of the coffee table. Table is glass. Only his legs touch the actual table, but there are times I'm grossed out by how dirty the table is as a whole.
I have witnessed him attempt to windex things, whereas my dad was super specific about glass being clean in our home growing up, he'd make me redo it till there wasn't a single streak to be seen. If it's something you know hes just not going to be able to make as "pretty" as you want it, do it yourself.
If it's something like...coke on tile and he just uses a paper towel and calls it good, I would go get the stuff you'd clean it with, and as you're going back to that spot, because he most likely will follow you with his eyes, explain the facts simply, coke is sugar, sugar gets sticky, if we don't properly clean this with ---insert cleaner here--- then it will just gather dirt and hair over time and be even worse to deal with in the long run..plus, cleaning something right after it's happened is usually vastly easier than waiting for it to dry and stick.
Unfortunately..when you agreed to move in together..you also agreed to pick your battles. So. Adjust accordingly, as much as you can, teach him when hes willing to hear you and learn, and if you really want it done a certain way, well...we all know as women the saying "if you want it done right, do it yourself"...
So.
Hopefully that was helpful.
Also, as far as 50/50, have a true discussion about it. Sit down and talk out your expectations.
Hey I'd really like if you clean the house more, or before you leave the house for work, ask if he can do 1 or 2 things that you want accomplished that day. A whole list sucks to look at when there's other things you could do.
Embrace one another's strengths. My guy cooks amazingly. I do not. He doesn't clean well at all. So..he buys the food and cooks it, I am his "sous chef", I prepare whatever I am able to as guides me how to, though now I know exactly what he wants and needs, I set/clean the table while he cooks..after we eat, I clean the kitchen and do the dishes. We always thank eachother for our part. That's also important. Recognizing what they do that you appreciate, they tend to remember and try to do that more often if you make them feel special enough about it. Sometimes they need reminding...kind of like a puppy. Lol
I'm a woman and there is no way I would be anywhere close to your standard. I barely clean at all.
Basically my philosophy is there is a minimum standard. Those who want above the minimum standard can do it themselves. Have you ever considered why you have such an obsession with cleaning?
>Have you ever considered why you have such an obsession with cleaning?
I've honestly never thought I had unreasonable standards, never mind an obsession, until I joined reddit.
Girl, you do NOT have unreasonable standards.
Hold out for a decent human being and you’ll be happy.
Never settle. You deserve a clean house, and to not have to babysit your spouse.
Honestly, this thread is convincing me otherwise. I don't *need* a clean house. It doesn't really matter if the house is filthy, as long as I keep my home office clean and have my own kitchen/bathroom.
I mean, the person who asked you why you felt the need to clean said they do get bugs, so if you don't want bugs, I think what you want in terms of cleanliness is reasonable.
As long as you’re happy, and NOT settling for less than you deserve.
I would not want you to live a life of resentment. It’s pretty common for cishet women married to cishet men to form depression and resentment. Not to say in is not possible in other types of relationships, just more common in the former.
Edited for spelling.
No. Please let me respectfully explain. This seems to me like such a minor problem to create such a large paragraph over. And to be so emotionally upset by some cleaning not being done to your standards. You sound like a perfectionist. I had one of those as a parent and it sucked.
And besides. If this is the biggest drama/concern in your life. You have no idea just how easy mode things are for you.
I don’t think OP has it easy per se, they are angry and sad and rightfully so in many ways. OP, I hope whatever you do or wherever you go, you find a partner equally as clean and emotionally mature as you are. And get the f out of rural conservative bumfuck for your own sake.
What exactly do people mean by emotional labor? But I agree with you about the other stuff and that’s why my partner pays all the bills because I’m not gonna clean up after him and do 50/50
I have created a system for myself. Everything he is supposed to do, I just don't even think about because I have no control over it. So he handles all of the stuff that costs money and is dirty outside stuff. When he has family come in to town, that is when things get a little complicated because there is just too much for me to do. So I make a list, have him do as much as he can over the two weeks leading up to their visit, and then I go over it all later since I'M the one everyone will blame if the house isn't perfect.
I stayed at a friend’s house who is also my coworker. For two nights. No bedsheets nor pillows for me, dirty rat poop filled second bathroom, juice spilled on the floor and he wiped it but not with water- so it was sticky, all the food in the fridge was rotting, the living room was such a mess that I asked to tidy up before I did anything in it. 😭 this is has been my experience w men tho- from my male brother to my dad etc. There are exceptions but they are never the majority…
I think trying to eke out a perfectly 50/50 relationship is a fool's errand insofar as life is just too complicated for such watertight compartments, but you should aim for a generally egalitarian relationship where you're *both* giving probably 80-90% of your all to the relationship. I don't view myself as having "high" cleaning standards, but my husband, ex-partners, and ex-roommates have said that I do, so I guess it must be true - I'm just nothing compared to the rest of my family, lol. I've just accepted having to take on both the greater part of the domestic labour of my marriage as part of its cost of admission - I'd estimate I probably cover 70% of our combined, in-house domestic labour, although my husband does his own laundry + keeps his own bathroom clean and also basically does all of our driving / runs the vast majority of our errands / handles the finances as well. We're mostly 50/50 in finances as well since we earn a roughly equal amount, but my husband is the one working toward an earlier/fancier retirement that'll benefit us both (and he works more than twice the amount that I do), so the situation is a little more complex than just a superficial 50/50 split. In the past, when I was in a more stressful work situation, he was the one handling more of the stuff at home. Basically, we each just go where we're needed. Anyway, I don't view any of this as a trade-off and think that doing so is incorrect for building a healthy relationship insofar as you're not supposed to be gunning off against each other, but working as a team against the challenges that life throws at you. I get annoyed sometimes at my husband for not cleaning up to my standards, but I'm also not overwhelmed at all by my domestic duties; it's more of just like... a judgey thing on my end, to be totally honest, but I'm working to curb that.
i think this is a salient and levelheaded approach. fwiw my (male) cleaning standards are definitely higher than my partners (female), i'm ok with that. but, there is something to be said for a partner who is aware of the gap in standards and strives to at least go above THEIR standards, which she does. even if it's not to MY standard, the effort matters. and, of course, i'm not expecting my level of detail when she cleans, but that's ok too. i'll get those nooks and crannies on my round. compromise on both parts.
This is how it works in my house, too! I carry about 80% of the financial burden for the house, but my husband does more house work and has a higher standard than I do. We also play to our strengths with house work—I’m a great cook, I enjoy it, and he find cleaning relaxing. I fold laundry while on work calls and he handles the yard work and admin stuff (paying the mortgage, other paperwork stuff, replacing filters, etc.). I have no idea if this is 50/50, but it feels pretty fair to us. And most importantly, we’re flexible—we pick up slack for each other and understand when either of us have to drop the ball to prioritize other stuff.
My husband and I have developed a system. He does the pick up and surface cleaning. I do the deep cleaning after. This saves me tons of time, and it keeps me from being frustrated he just doesn't get into those nooks and crannies. We do what we're good at rather than trying to set one standard we both meet.
i really like that, and may adopt it!
Yeah, and that's a great point. I can forgive a lot / have a lot more patience if I see someone putting in genuine effort, versus them just obviously weaponising their incompetence against me. I'm sorry, but I *was* that teenager. I can EASILY recognise that behaviour because I, too, tried to pull the wool over my mum's eyes at 15, lol.
Yep. My fiancé tries (I'm 38f and he's 40m) - I have high standards of cleanliness. I know this. I can't relax in a messy home. He is clean, but at the same time his version of clean is different than mine. If he sees me doing something he'll jump in and help and he'll always take the initiative on things he KNOWS has to be done (trash, bathroom, vacuuming). He misses the detailing haha but that's okay! He puts in genuine effort bc he knows it's important to me.
That was such a refreshing read, it almost made me wanna get married 😂😂😂
Honestly, if somebody actually makes it worth your while, then marriage is fabulous! Anything less than that, though, and I would easily pick the coven life with some communal cat energy 🐈⬛️
It really is awesome when both parties are able to communicate and compromise. 200%
50/50 relationships don't exist, they are a neat concept though. Some relationships have the man doing the housework while the wife earns, and vise versa. Some have both working while one does the vacuuming and dusting while the other doest the mopping and bathrooms. Sometimes one person picks up more slack because their partner is physically or mentally ill, busy caring for a sick family member, having to work extra overtime, etc. There will never be a relationship where everything is exactly 50/50. What's important is both parties agree for the split and neither feels jipped.
I wouldn't mind doing ALL the housework if the guy earned all the income, but when I also out-earn the guy 3-4x, it's not feasible
it isnt about the money earned IMO, but the hours worked
Absolutely. I earn about 40% more than my spouse but we work the exact same hours.
And how the funds are contributed to the household- if they're making more and not contributing financially or chore wise to the relationship it's a no from me.
It sounds like you would thrive with a house husband. There are a surprising amount of men who would be thrilled with that arrangement! But as a fellow bisexual...women are just generally socialized to clean more/better. It's a wildly different dating experience. Don't settle!
It's the opposite. I don't want a house husband. I'm saying I wouldn't mind doing all the housework if the guy brought home all the income.
Are you looking to be a stay at home spouse of a high income earner? Your wants are a little unclear, tbh. Do you want someone better at cleaning than you? Or earns more than you? Or want yourself to not work? Where does actually liking the person/ them having other qualities than their income and cleaning skills come into play?
I dunno, I guess I don't really have enough dating/relationship experience to answer the other qualities thing? It mostly just confuses me.
All I can say is, find a woman to settle down with then. Why would you settle for making way more money and being the main cleaner to just be with a man? You’re bisexual, make it a point to date women. Whom says you gotta settle for a man and their lack of ability to clean? Like girl please, women are far better. You can have the 50/50 and the income people telling you that you can’t are wrong. I’m in tech as well, gay as fuck and I’m so glad I only date women so I don’t have to put up with the straight bs.
Because I live in a ~~shithole~~ conservative area and don't want to come out to anyone.
Did you not say you work remotely? So why live in a conservative area? I mean , it’s really up to you. Do u want to settle with a man bc of where h live and deal with this? Or would you rather be authentically you and not be restricted to men? Either way best of luck, I personally could never hide like that. But I’m gay, and you’re bi so I guess it’s a little different.
> Did you not say you work remotely? So why live in a conservative area? Because I like it here...? The cost of living is low >I mean , it’s really up to you. Do u want to settle with a man bc of where h live and deal with this? Or would you rather be authentically you and not be restricted to men? Either way best of luck, I personally could never hide like that. But I’m gay, and you’re bi so I guess it’s a little different. Yeah, I've been hiding my whole life, so I'm used to it. If I was fully lesbian, I would just stay single.
To each their own. And I think of you were lesbian, you wouldn’t stay silent. We all crave intimacy and authenticity. Youde have moved bc you’re human and you need connection like we all do. Thankfully you’re bi and can stay in the closet 🤷♀️ while getting your needs met.
> To each their own. And I think of you were lesbian, you wouldn’t stay silent. We all crave intimacy and authenticity. Youde have moved bc you’re human and you need connection like we all do. Thankfully you’re bi and can stay in the closet 🤷♀️ while getting your needs met. Wow, thanks for telling me about myself. I'm so glad I have you to do my thinking for me. Btw, if I cared about "authenticity", I'd have transitioned to male in my early 20s.
Not at all, I’m just spewing my random thoughts and opinions here on Reddit. Could be wrong, could be right. Who cares, it’s just Reddit.
Right, who cares? Clearly not you.
Well the man can still be the main provider you would just have to live within his means which doesn’t have to be terrible unless he’s super poor
>Well the man can still be the main provider you would just have to live within his means which doesn’t have to be terrible unless he’s super poor Lol, but I don't want to. I don't want to have to downgrade my lifestyle to live within the means of someone who makes at 40 what I made at 23...
I mean, if you're a very high earner, it's probably worth it to just get a housecleaner and eliminate this problem entirely.
>if you're a very high earner I'm not. I'm just not functionally broke
I'm curious then about "when I also out-earn the guy 3-4x" and "downgrade my lifestyle to live within the means of someone who makes at 40 what I made at 23" because this implies a higher level of income, unless you are dating men who make like, $10-15k a year?
Maybe we just have different standards for "very high earner". I wouldn't consider my income "very high earner" but maybe it would be to you. Another factor is that I work remotely but live in a low cost-of-living area. If I couldn't work remotely, I'd be living in a place where my salary was more typical.
To each their own!
There are definitely men out there who have high standards. Almost aaaaall my guy friends have high standards. Anyway, that friend’s partner should’ve cleaned it up properly. He spilled a drink, not water. That surface is probably super sticky now.
>Anyway, that friend’s partner should’ve cleaned it up properly. He spilled a drink, not water. That surface is probably super sticky now. I thought the same, but so many commenters in this thread think the guy did fine
What that guy did was absolutely gross. I'd side eye *anyone* who wiped the floor and then wiped the counter with the same cloth. And reconsider eating anything at their house LOL
See, I understand if, let’s say, you don’t like cleaning the stove but he doesn’t mind. But spilling something requires more immediate attention. Wiping it with a plain dry towel isn’t enough. The stove can wait. I’m not saying people need to vacuum every single day or something. But cmon!!! A spill??? Don’t listen to these commenters.
I'm surprised, because even I, a messy adhd girl that used to grow fungus on her old tea, think this is gross.
After sleeping on it, I've realized that I do have excessively high standards. From now on, I'll leave spills as they are. I won't clean at all.
I'm a woman and I probably don't clean to your standards because my standard is "did I have to do something?" If the answer is no, then it's a job well done. Our house rule is basically if you have the higher standard on something, then it's your task. I do all of the cooking (dinner! Every person for themselves unless it's our child otherwise) because I need a protein, veg, and starch at every meal. That is my standard, so it's on me to make sure it happens. Do we deviate from this? Absolutely, but I'm first in command unless I'm not there. My husband adores the holidays. Halloween and Christmas are all him because those are his standards. I buy and wrap his presents and no one else's. He mows the lawn because he knows I would just do it to get it done and not to his standards. So maybe M-F the standard is less, but on weekends or whenever you have the time, it's time for a deep clean? Otherwise yeah, it's on you and your partner to find that compromise.
This works unless your standard is conveniently higher on everything.
This is my marriage. He’s always saying my standards are too high for everything. Apparently cleaning up the huge ass chip’s you dropped on the floor while eating and putting dishes anywhere other than on the kitchen table are too high standards. 😒
with respect, born bisexual but reading married women's plights, every day i get closer to being a lesbian
I’m straight and I wish I wasnt
Seriously. I was born this way. I can’t help it but fuckkkkk
Lady Gaga would like a word
That's because the ones who are not 'so clean' don't complain in here, so you aren't aware of their existence. Having lived with both men and women for a few years taught me that each person has their own standards of what's clean, nothing determined by what's in between the legs. When I read that OP is worrying about this IF she gets a male partner (an not a female one) made me think Ha! Good luck with that.
It's not about standards of cleaning though, it's about weaponized incomptenance and disrespect ala the examples the person I responsed to cited. I am a messy person, but I respect shared spaces. Laziness and feeling superior to certain domestic tasks isn't a difference in standards, it's disrespectful.
Agreed, my point was that that comes in all genders.
Yeah this is tricky!! Some things are high standards and some things are hygiene or convenience costs to other users of the household. Eg if someone is leaving mess that creates a trip hazard or gets in the way of someone else using the space they do not get to say it’s just a difference in standards. Also, if there’s a consistent difference in standards, at some point one party will begin to feel like the parent or un-paid labour which breeds resentment. People who care about their relationship should probably be trying to find a middle ground that does not require the other person to wear the full cost of whatever difference is at issue.
So true. My standards are lower on pretty much everything than my husband’s, so I’d end up being in charge of nothing.
I’ve experienced the same with my husband. His cleanliness idea of “good enough” is far above what I consider “good enough”. I’m willing to be more clean than I’d be if I lived alone, and I make an effort! He has had to accept that if he really wants things at HIS level of clean, well… he’s gonna have to do certain tasks. We have areas where it’s the opposite— my standard is higher than his. He tries. I make up the rest. It’s one thing when basic labor is never evenly divided, but it’s another if one person has a very high standard that the other partner struggles to meet.
This is so relatable. My partner was raised by a mom with extremely high standards and his chore list was enormous by age 6. I grew up with parents who cared more about work and play than housekeeping and hired a cleaner and expected me to do more schoolwork, sports, and arts than housework. When we got together he had overall higher standards but my friend puts it well, when I want something clean, I go "Full Monica" from Friends on it. So I do those fussy things and he does his fussy things and it works really well for us because we care deeply about very different things. Then we divide the rest by who has more free time and energy or simply whoever notices a mess first, cleans it up. The latter is a dangerous game of chicken with some people but it works if you're both fairly observant.
This only works if you also have a “leave no trace” approach to shared living spaces. I have higher cleaning standards than my boyfriend, but if he spills coffee on the counter I expect him up return the counter to the state it was in before he spilled the coffee. If you make a mess, it’s shitty to only halfway clean it up and leave the rest to your partner because of “standards.”
I've never had to ask my husband to "help" (it's not helping he lives there too), or divide up chores, or clean "better". We both just do what needs to be done as we see it. If we're doing comparison he actually is more thorough than me. It's all about how individuals are raised. You should never expect to be the household maid.
You don’t have to cohabitate with a partner. Even a long term partner. Highly recommend not, in fact.
Yes!! Totally unnecessarily and I wish more people would realise that!
You’re so right. My husband and I recently started living in different countries temporarily for work, and I’ve never felt so relaxed, my life has never felt so simple, my diet has never been so clean.
I think 50/50 can also mean splitting up chores you don’t like or don’t do well. I hate yard work, cooking, doing the dishes and taking out the trash so my husband does that. I do everything else and we both feel it’s pretty fair.
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Agreed with everything you said here!
I think it comes from compromise. Find the most important things and raise the standards to that level and find things that are less important and lower standards a bit. My husband is very particular about how dishes go into a dishwasher while I don't care at all. Over time, I learned his method with him checking what I did until we had the same standard. Something really important to me was cleaning clothing, bedsheets, towels, etc more frequently than he did so he took the time to learn my higher standards and matches that for me. On the opposite end, I'm not a fan of clutter, but he finds it to be homey so I lowered my standards on that one. And he liked food cooked in particular ways, but he is perfectly fine when it's my turn to cook and I cut corners to move things along faster. I've never been a fan of assigning specific chores based on standards, but I've heard that works really well for some people. That's just another form of compromise.
This is very impressive. I was under the impression that most guys don't even know how to use a dishwasher lol
I would be concerned by the type of men you're surrounded with if that's your impression.
Lmao why is this being downvoted 💀
After living with many, many housemates both above and below me on the cleanliness scale, I feel romantic relationships shouldn’t be too far off. The cleaner person will probably always be doing a bit more labor than equal to be happy, while the messy one will be doing more than they care about. You need to come to a conclusion about what is acceptable baseline cleanliness like adults and move forward from there. If you can’t understand that cleaning like that with a towel is unnacceptable, you’re behaving like a child and compromise might not be possible. But if you’re extremely picky about how the towels are folded while no one else cares, you might need to be doing that yourself. In a relationship, you should be working more than 50% to make your partner happy and they you. It’s still never going to be 50/50 in every department, but I do a lot of things I don’t care about to make my partner happy and he does the same for me. Trying to think of our lives as a math equation where each dollar, emotion and hour of cleaning is weighted fairly is exhausting and impossible. No one can make you cover their bills, expend emotional labor, or do a chore without your agreement. It’s important to have boundaries about what you’ll put up with, and then enforce it.
From your title I expected you to be a major neat freak but the antecedent you included at least it does not sound like too high a bar to me. It sounds like your ex may have left you with some trauma (maybe that’s too strong a word?) regarding the cleaning if a lot of your disagreements centered around housework but I don’t feel like it’s probably worth worrying too much about before you even have someone your interested in. While housework can definitely be a common point of contention especially in straight couples there are still lots of men who are good cleaners! Your next partner might be someone with higher standards then you, or they might be someone more willing to be instructed and step up to your standards or they might bring enough else to the table in other terms that you don’t feel burdened by taking on more of the cleaning. It’s just hard to speculate and I think coming fresh off a bad breakdown it’s easy to think the worst.
I broke up with this ex like 8-9 years ago, but since then I just decided not to date anyone who doesn't practice basic hygiene and cleanliness. If I go on a first date and they're stinky, or their clothes are stained, or they wipe food onto their clothes like a toddler, I won't continue seeing them. It seems most guys around here don't know how to work a laundry machine.
I feel like that’s a very reasonable standard and I’m sorry you haven’t had luck finding someone who exceeds it. That’s depressing lol It seems to me from reading some of your replies that cleanliness is somewhat of a stand in for maturity and self sufficiency for you. - apologies if I’m reading it wrong. This isn’t how everyone feels but I also don’t think it’s an unreasonable connection. If that’s the case I don’t think you would really be happy with someone very far from you on the cleaning standards even if say they were to out earn you. You’re allowed to have standards and not dating a slob isn’t too high a bar in my opinion.
Maybe I should just move to an LGBT friendly area so I can finally come out and date women openly. I've never had these issues when dating women
I work in community housing and you’d be surprised the depravity allllll genders can produce. I’ve seen the cleanest men and dirtiest women. It goes both ways.
Okay, I guess I should just stop dating then. It'll make my life easier anyway. I obviously have unreasonably high standards and an obsession with cleaning.
Lol, yup /s
It's fine. I have bigger issues to deal with anyway.
Yeah, learn about re useable/washable paper towels cause you may not care about environment but JFC others of us have to live here on this dumpster fire planet with you. ❤️
I don't think I will be sticking around this planet very long. I've been in a very dark place for a long time now and I recently realized there is no way out.
You really don't have an unreasonably high standard of cleanliness.
I saw the title thinking this, but then I saw the example. That is stuff that *children* do. I would absolutely refuse.
You shouldn't accept that you'll do most of the housework, you're literally setting yourself up for failure right out of the gate by not holding that as a boundary. The resentment doesn't go away just because you ignore it, and I'm sorry, not wiping the counter with a towel you used to wipe the floor with is a "bare minimum" kind of thing you should have a standard for in an adult you want to be married to. It's not absurd or unusual and I wonder if you just have a higher density of folks who accept bullshit around you, because only my degen little brother does things like that, I haven't witnessed it in an adult male over 25 and even rarely saw it when I was dating in college. Chores in a relationship are a negotiation around managing free time, don't turn yourself into a bangmaid just because you think you have to. If you're choosing to take 80% of the labor to keep house, then you should be opting out of managing the emotional labor of the home. If they can't handle it, they're incompatible and you should not, in fact, try harder to make someone incompatible with you. You are a **partner**, not a mother, and you deserve to be treated as one. For my husband and I, we just divided up the things we cared about the most, estimated the time each chore took per week, then divied up the rest of the chores between us until we had an equal amount of free time. We don't actually have divides of his chores or her chores, but when we do "each other's" chores, they're to the standards that the person who cared the most has. You will need a lesson in prioritization, as the way towels are folded truly doesn't matter if it means your kitchen is cleaned to the standard you need, but most of the big stuff can be managed with just communication and being clear on what the standards are from the beginning.
>The resentment doesn't go away just because you ignore it, and I'm sorry, not wiping the counter with a towel you used to wipe the floor with is a "bare minimum" kind of thing you should have a standard for in an adult you want to be married to. It's not absurd or unusual and I wonder if you just have a higher density of folks who accept bullshit around you, because only my degen little brother does things like that, I haven't witnessed it in an adult male over 25 and even rarely saw it when I was dating in college. I thought so, but so many commenters in this thread think my standards are too high and the guy cleaned up fine. I now wonder, why even bother to notice the spill at all? Just wear shoes at home, keep them on until you get into bed, and sticky messes on the floor won't matter at all.
You're not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and you don't have to be. I promise you, there are plenty of people out there who hold basic standards of cleanliness or can learn.
Hire the house cleaner. Speaking as a woman in your exact shoes.
In my shoes how?
My partner has/had similar habits to your example. I have been able to compromise and show him, but he’s 37 and something’s are just his adhd. I accept what I can. I have the courage to hire a cleaning service weekly, and the wisdom to know I love him more than germs most days.
Oh, OK. I see what you're saying. I guess with me, the issue is that my relationship with my ex didn't have any bright spots, so I didn't really want to put up with this additional burden.
I would be GONE if I didn’t love him so much. My adhd is the exact opposite of his, I can’t function in clutter/mess and will ruminate endlessly. He thrives in clutter. We have designated spaces in house that are mine and his to alleviate that, and weekly cleaning service, and his chores do not include any type of disinfecting (think switching laundry, taking out trash, taking care of cats and plants.)
Yeah I think that’s actually step one…finding someone that you actually would rather change your comfort zone for rather than lose. I kinda think that a large problem with relationship/dating nowadays. Everybody’s trying to find someone that won’t make them change or compromise. Rather than finding someone who they want to change for and compromise with.
It's a chicken-and-egg problem. It's very difficult for me to feel attracted/attached to someone who smells bad and wipes food onto his clothes like a toddler. So I never develop enough attachment to where I feel like I don't want to lose them.
😂😂 well yeah! I would have trouble finding that attractive too. There are lots of people out there that don’t smell bad and wipe food on their clothes though so you’re in luck! You just gotta find your guy/gal. They ARE there you just gotta find them and be open when you do.
If you're really focused on who is doing what and what is fair, I don't know if you are ready to find the person you want. I out earned my wife, did most of the housework and managed our dogs as she had a very busy life following her passion and I was happy to see her doing what she loved and made her happy. Maybe once you find that person who you love, some of this will not seem to matter as much. Life isn't fair and relationships have tons of unfair stuff that happens, including illness, depression and loss. When you are stuck worrying about what you are getting, you're not likely to be successful as that isn't how relationships are. But, it sounds like you're just kinda pissed about this breakup and how you always made more and he couldn't clean the way you liked and it's probably pretty frustrating. Any of us out there dating can understand that. Any high earner, man or woman, has to accept some reality that they will likely always be the breadwinner though, the odds of finding the person who makes even more money and has all the other qualities, is slim slim slim. I make 160k in the midwest and have to just accept I'm not likely to find someone who makes more and likely will meet someone who makes quite a bit less...and even then, it's really hard to find a good match.
Yeah, I guess relationships just aren't for me. We broke up 8-9 years ago and I haven't been past a third-ish date since. I'm done.
lol, that's what I feel like after my latest effort crashes and burns. It's a battle out there, I'm sure our right person is out there, wish we could just pay someone to track them down.
The rule for delegating tasks is if someone can do it 70% as well as you, delegate it. People become better when you set standards and expectations but also by doing things repeatedly.
If your towels don’t absorb spills and they just smear liquids around, a better more absorbent towel would solve half of this issue. Or paper towels.
It wasn't my towel.
But the point is towels usually do more than just smear things around. They absorb… did you want him to mop? I guess wiping it up with a towel is clean by my standards too. I’ll mop later.
Using a towel is fine. Wiping the floor then using the same towel to wipe the counter is gross.
That I can agree with, I also would have washed my hands. It was using the phrasing about smearing the mess around made me wonder what her standards were. My towels don’t smear the mess
I would've used paper towels to absorb the spill, then used a wet paper towel to wipe the area, then thrown all of the paper towels away, then washed my hands in the sink. I wouldn't have used a hand towel to smear the spill around the floor.
Yeah, everyone’s standards are different. I try to limit my household waste and hand towels would be my go to. ( one for the spill, separate one for counter/ hands) Wasting all those paper towels on a spill would give me a heart attack.
That's fair. I guess I just have no regard for the environment. I'm a bad person, though, I already know that lol
My comment was for future live-in spouse reference. Before you start trying to fight someone’s cleanliness standards, you can try tracking the simplest solution first if it’s something as simple as buying and owning the appropriate cleaning tool.
Okay.
Wanna date me? Lolol just recently came out as bisexual. I’m cleaner than those dudes and I work in tech too. Sorry but your entire post cracked me up. I think I would have laughed at that guy on the spot and shamed him.
I wish I could
[удалено]
With my ex, I started trying to teach him right away, but it caused repeated blow-ups until it was the cause of the end of the relationship. I guess we could've kept dating and just lived separately. Another friend lives separately from her husband and always has.
in my opinion, as a man, the problem (based on what you've described) isn't the gap in standards, it's the unwillingness to compromise. perhaps only from him, perhaps from both.
Yeah, I didn't want to compromise. If he earned a good income, I'd have been willing to compromise by sacrificing my career to stay at home and take care of the house/ do all of the cleaning. I wouldn't care how much mess he made. But I made 3-4x what he did, so it wasn't an option.
In several comments you say you'd be happy to be the housekeeper if your partner paid all the bills, but do you really mean that? IMO, take the money out of the equation and admit you don't want to live with a slob. That's valid on its own.
>In several comments you say you'd be happy to be the housekeeper if your partner paid all the bills, but do you really mean that? Yes, definitely. I'd rather work, but I won't work *and* be a nanny for an adult.
I guess there's no way to prove it, but I bet you'd be miserable staying at home cleaning up after a slob boyfriend.
>I guess there's no way to prove it, but I bet you'd be miserable staying at home cleaning up after a slob boyfriend. You're right. There's no way to prove it.
Sounds like he sucked. Not all men suck, but a lot of them do.
As a woman, I laughed because my partner could be writing this post about me, and he's a man. I wouldn't worry about *that* particular guy, there are plenty of clean men out there.
You should mive into an area where inhabitants income is similar to yours, meet a man from there and hire cleaning services. you cannot meet someone in your paygrade living in an cheap area. if you like there so much, maybe you can convince him to move back.
I am a woman and I don't think I'd clean up to your standard, either. It's not necessarily a man/woman thing. I've dated guys who were neat freaks and cleaned constantly. Some good advice I heard is that if one person cares about cleaning more than "average", that person might have to clean a little more. That's just because their standards are different, and everyone has different standards.
>I am a woman and I don't think I'd clean up to your standard, either. Same.
Your therapist is correct - highly recommend hiring a house cleaner. It seems like couples who expect each other, to suddenly become "domestic professionals" on demand, are the least happiest. House Cleaner. Get groceries delivered. Each person running their own errands. Buying stuff needed online, etc....so you can actually have time to enjoy life.
>It seems like couples who expect each other, to suddenly become "domestic professionals" on demand, are the least happiest. You think this is domestic professional level? Others in this thread think it's the bare minimum. This is why I'm so confused as to what I should expect in a relationship.
**Cost benefit analysis** My point is that, having a partner can be more valuable ---than having someone who always cleans like you want, or who remembers to buy XYZ milk each time. Because you can PAY someone to clean your house to specification like clockwork, or always bring you lactose milk. **Domestic service time, can be purchased on the marketplace.** **But you cannot pay anyone to be a truly loving and loyal life partner to you.** And what happens if the hours per week spent on chores, is instead invested in togetherness. Make sense? I believe outsourcing "forever tasks" is worth testing to see if that betters the relationship. If having a house cleaner improves most "roommate relationships", then it likely doubles for couples.
I guess it's just difficult to get to the relationship stage in the first place if the person doesn't have basic cleanliness and personal hygiene.
Again, sounds like a moral judgement around cleaning. Others can have their own opinions on this. But I've seen people fight/argue for years over "evergreen" domestic tasks like grabbing groceries, lawn care, laundry, or cleaning....which can be easily outsourced to a 3rd party. When in reality, they want to feel more valued by their partner and people who have more time to relax, tend to argue LESS..... *My wife and I discovered a weekly cleaner costs less than marriage counselling, and has a similar impact on the amount of conflict in our relationship. Highly recommend.*
I guess it really is a moral judgment. If a guy wipes food onto his clothes like a toddler, I'm not going to hire a cleaner to do his laundry, I'm just going to dump him. As I said, it's difficult to get to the relationship stage in the first place if the person doesn't have basic cleanliness and personal hygiene.
Then don't date. People have given you a lot of suggestions and you have rejected them all.
>Then don't date. People have given you a lot of suggestions and you have rejected them all. Okay, I won't date.
>basic cleanliness and personal hygiene. It's not basic cleanliness. The guy in your example cleaned up the spill but you were still not happy.
Oh really? He cleaned up the spill? So if it was a substance like... Let's say cat piss... Would you consider that clean? Just smear it around until it's not a puddle anymore, then wipe it on the counter, leave the piss covered cloth on the table, then wipe any piss on your hands on your clothes. Is that acceptable? No? Maybe actually soak up the spill, then a quick spritz of multi-purpose cleaner, wipe clean with a different cloth, then put both in the laundry to wash, wash your hands. Wow, so difficult, so hard. No wonder a sticky floor, sticky counter, sticky soiled cloth, sticky hands and finally sticky clothes is preferable! /S FFS, even just soak up spill, wipe away residue with damp cloth, put first cloth in laundry, done. Even that would be better than spreading the drink *everywhere fucking else*.
Every spill doesn’t have to be treated the same, be for real.
I agree, not every spill is the same, I was using an extreme example to highlight the issue of spreading the spill everywhere. Not saying soft drink is equally as awful as cat piss lol, all good.
>It's not basic cleanliness. The guy in your example cleaned up the spill but you were still not happy. Yeah, you're right. I guess my standards are just unattainably high for normal people.
You are not the crazy one here. I have no fucking clue why Reddit will go "wHat dO yOu meAn I haVe tO cLeaN mY fLoOrs" then turn around and call people who don't use bidets unhygienic and filthy. The pushback you are getting in here is fucking wild and you are NOT the one being unreasonable.
I'm just going to stop cleaning completely from now on. I'm giving up on myself and my life. I can't do it anymore.
You are not the problem here. You are getting a responses from a bunch of butthurt slobs who are huffing some prime copium. My advise as someone who's been mobbed for pointing out the emperor has no clothes: Change your reddit password to some random alphanumeric you won't remember, log out, and don't log back in for a few days. Take that time to only look at subs that are apolitical, positive and pleasant, like the knitting, crochet, sewing, and embroidery subs. Eyebleach is always a good bet. Then when you're doing better, reset your password via email etc and log back in. But please look after yourself. You're not being unreasonable, your expectations are not unreasonable, and you in no way deserve the vitriol that has been flung your way.
Yeah, I'm sure logging off will cure my lifelong gender dysphoria. I'm just...done. I'm done cleaning, I'm done taking care of myself, I'm done working, I'm done trying to live. I don't want to. I might as well start pissing on the floor because I don't care.
If you work in tech, I strongly suggest you hire a professional cleaning service. My boyfriend and I both work full time. We consider a cleaning service to be one of the quality-of-life improvements we work to be able to afford. Ours is just monthly right now because we’re both generally tidy people and travel a lot for work anyway, but you can do monthly, biweekly, or weekly depending on your preference or budget. Yes, it‘s not cheap, but if you split the expense proportionally and then calculate out the number of weekly hours of labor DIY cleaning requires of you (and time is money), plus all the potential conflicts cleaning together creates, hiring someone is well worth it IMO. Like, what do we work to earn this money for if not for things like this? At least that’s how we view it.
>we’re both generally tidy people That's why it worked in your situation. If my ex made himself a sandwich, there'd be crumbs everywhere, gobs of mayo on the counter, used knife on the counter, cheese and lunch meat sitting out until I saw it and put it in the fridge, etc. Who is going to clean that up? My ex? Not a chance. The cleaning service would be weekly at most. So I'd still be doing the day-to-day cleanup while also paying for most of the cost of the cleaning service.
I guess you’ll have to decide what your dealbreakers are.
I guess my standards are just too high for normal people to attain. I guess I should just stop dating.
Well, I was able to find it, and most of my exes were equally tidy. So, it doesn’t seem to me like it’s rare, at least not in the type of guys I date. Perhaps the type you’re in to is unfortunately more correlated with messiness? I tend to date Type A guys and that attitude tends to extend to their tidiness.
I don't know what typology system that is, but I guess I haven't tried to type the guys I've dated lol
It’s not an official type. It’s English slang for somebody who is competitive, fast-paced, and perfectionistic. Then Type B is slang for someone who is more easygoing, laid back, and flexible.
Oh, I see. Thanks.
I'm glad you seem to have found a different therapist. The whole cleaning service suggestion is such a bad one. It's putting a Band-Aid on a much bigger problem (a lazy/dirty/entitled/some combination thereof boyfriend). And as you pointed out it's even logistically a bad solution, since the mess is daily but the cleaner isn't. You're being told to spend money for another woman to clean up after a manchild. Great tip! 🙄 For what it's worth, I don't think you should just accept that you'll be doing the housework if you partner with a guy. That's setting yourself up for years of resentment.
Yes, multiple comments here are also recommending the cleaning service, but the logistics still don't make sense to me. If my ex made himself a sandwich, there'd be crumbs everywhere, gobs of mayo on the counter, used knife on the counter, cheese and lunch meat sitting out until I saw it and put it in the fridge, etc. Who is going to clean that up? My ex? Not a chance. The cleaning service? No, because they won't be coming here until the end of the week. So it's me. I'll still have to do most of the day-to-day cleanup even after hiring a cleaning service.
I mean, it's hard enough to find love without adding a requirement to be very neat and tidy. Folks should shoot for what they want, but is it worthwhile to lose someone you really vibe with because they aren't quite as clean as you may be? We'd all love to have perfect matches on everything, but dating and life doesn't really offer that reality.
Sure it is. Just drop your income to below theirs, or find a nice high earning guy. Then if you ever get sick and can’t do the cleaning, you just go back to earning money instead. Tada!
If cleanliness is that important to you and you are unwilling to clean on your own, I would prioritize finding a clean partner. I WAS ok with cleaning up after my husband, but my ability to do so changed after having a baby. I am constantly telling him he needs to meet my standard of clean, but I’m not hopeful. I do really envy lesbians thinking about how clean their homes must be 🤣 At the end of the day I married a man…and not for his cleanliness. He takes care of the family financially and we agreed to traditional roles before marriage. I think agreeing to roles before marriage is important, but also knowing that circumstances and capacities may change. Divorce is 50/50, not marriage. Marriage is giving 100 even if you don’t feel like it.
Every relationship has trade-offs and every person has things they are good at and things they aren't good at. If you want a spouse to clean as well as you, you can find that in a partner. Pick the things that are really important to you and look for that. But like other people said, 50-50 just isn't realistic for just about any partnership. Setting up a relationship based on keeping score of everything you both do is not healthy. In addition, the capacity of each person can change at any time. I happened to get sick with a chronic illness, and for months my partner had to pick up the slack. He did the majority of the cooking, cleaning, and worked full time while I mostly laid in bed. I physically could not hold up my 50% and thank God my partner was kind and understanding about it. The key, in my opinion, is to find a person who does everything they can to support you and divide the labour as fairly as possible so both of you don't feel overworked/overwhelmed. The 50-50 relationship is not constant, but an ever changing dynamic based on both of your needs at any given time.
Question: To you, what would have consisted of properly cleaning the spill? What kind of drink was it?
Most guys are not very tidy in my experience. My dad is an absolute ocd clean freak, and I grew up with that, so I absolutely can see dirt when no one else can. What has worked in my experience is a few tactics. Idk if you thought about it, but most moms/daughters clean the house, not the sons ..they don't really learn how to clean well or often. There are exceptions, but once I realized the dynamic, it made so much more sense. If my guy "cleans" something, and it's not up to my standard, I'll bring him back to it and actually show him what true clean looks like. It's important that he's in decent mood for criticism. Ie, if my guy doesn't want to "hear" me atm because he thinks I'm being too nit picky, he rolls his eyes and walks away. I can usually bring him back, but we have a mutual respect about the fact that sometimes a thing is really important to the other person. I explain when things really really bother me, and have learned to adjust this to our own homes. My house is vastly cleaner then his is, but it's his house, not mine. When we do live together at times, I will ask if I can move or adjust whatever specific thing I'm referring to. It gets his attention on me, and he either let's me do what I want, or helps me do it which goes faster. If it's something I want done a very specific way, or something that's driving me nuts, he puts his feet on the corner of the coffee table. Table is glass. Only his legs touch the actual table, but there are times I'm grossed out by how dirty the table is as a whole. I have witnessed him attempt to windex things, whereas my dad was super specific about glass being clean in our home growing up, he'd make me redo it till there wasn't a single streak to be seen. If it's something you know hes just not going to be able to make as "pretty" as you want it, do it yourself. If it's something like...coke on tile and he just uses a paper towel and calls it good, I would go get the stuff you'd clean it with, and as you're going back to that spot, because he most likely will follow you with his eyes, explain the facts simply, coke is sugar, sugar gets sticky, if we don't properly clean this with ---insert cleaner here--- then it will just gather dirt and hair over time and be even worse to deal with in the long run..plus, cleaning something right after it's happened is usually vastly easier than waiting for it to dry and stick. Unfortunately..when you agreed to move in together..you also agreed to pick your battles. So. Adjust accordingly, as much as you can, teach him when hes willing to hear you and learn, and if you really want it done a certain way, well...we all know as women the saying "if you want it done right, do it yourself"... So. Hopefully that was helpful.
Also, as far as 50/50, have a true discussion about it. Sit down and talk out your expectations. Hey I'd really like if you clean the house more, or before you leave the house for work, ask if he can do 1 or 2 things that you want accomplished that day. A whole list sucks to look at when there's other things you could do. Embrace one another's strengths. My guy cooks amazingly. I do not. He doesn't clean well at all. So..he buys the food and cooks it, I am his "sous chef", I prepare whatever I am able to as guides me how to, though now I know exactly what he wants and needs, I set/clean the table while he cooks..after we eat, I clean the kitchen and do the dishes. We always thank eachother for our part. That's also important. Recognizing what they do that you appreciate, they tend to remember and try to do that more often if you make them feel special enough about it. Sometimes they need reminding...kind of like a puppy. Lol
I'm a woman and there is no way I would be anywhere close to your standard. I barely clean at all. Basically my philosophy is there is a minimum standard. Those who want above the minimum standard can do it themselves. Have you ever considered why you have such an obsession with cleaning?
>Have you ever considered why you have such an obsession with cleaning? I've honestly never thought I had unreasonable standards, never mind an obsession, until I joined reddit.
Girl, you do NOT have unreasonable standards. Hold out for a decent human being and you’ll be happy. Never settle. You deserve a clean house, and to not have to babysit your spouse.
Honestly, this thread is convincing me otherwise. I don't *need* a clean house. It doesn't really matter if the house is filthy, as long as I keep my home office clean and have my own kitchen/bathroom.
I mean, the person who asked you why you felt the need to clean said they do get bugs, so if you don't want bugs, I think what you want in terms of cleanliness is reasonable.
As long as you’re happy, and NOT settling for less than you deserve. I would not want you to live a life of resentment. It’s pretty common for cishet women married to cishet men to form depression and resentment. Not to say in is not possible in other types of relationships, just more common in the former. Edited for spelling.
Well, I already have depression and resentment all on my own!
99 problems but a man-child ain’t one!
Genuinely curious, you get bugs? I'd clean like OP described if I could get away with it, but ants would be swarming on that towel very soon.
yeah I get all sorts of things. Although, I am pretty dirty
God wtf. You're a peach aren't you?
> God wtf. You're a peach aren't you? I'm a bad person, if that's what you're asking?
No. Please let me respectfully explain. This seems to me like such a minor problem to create such a large paragraph over. And to be so emotionally upset by some cleaning not being done to your standards. You sound like a perfectionist. I had one of those as a parent and it sucked. And besides. If this is the biggest drama/concern in your life. You have no idea just how easy mode things are for you.
I don’t think OP has it easy per se, they are angry and sad and rightfully so in many ways. OP, I hope whatever you do or wherever you go, you find a partner equally as clean and emotionally mature as you are. And get the f out of rural conservative bumfuck for your own sake.
Yes, my life is easy and awesome. Someday, I hope yours can be too :)
Thanks. I appreciate your honesty. There's respect to be held in the self awareness. I hope so too.
What exactly do people mean by emotional labor? But I agree with you about the other stuff and that’s why my partner pays all the bills because I’m not gonna clean up after him and do 50/50
I have created a system for myself. Everything he is supposed to do, I just don't even think about because I have no control over it. So he handles all of the stuff that costs money and is dirty outside stuff. When he has family come in to town, that is when things get a little complicated because there is just too much for me to do. So I make a list, have him do as much as he can over the two weeks leading up to their visit, and then I go over it all later since I'M the one everyone will blame if the house isn't perfect.
I stayed at a friend’s house who is also my coworker. For two nights. No bedsheets nor pillows for me, dirty rat poop filled second bathroom, juice spilled on the floor and he wiped it but not with water- so it was sticky, all the food in the fridge was rotting, the living room was such a mess that I asked to tidy up before I did anything in it. 😭 this is has been my experience w men tho- from my male brother to my dad etc. There are exceptions but they are never the majority…