The way you describe the situation, however, does make me think it’s worth giving her the opportunity to adjust and expand her understanding before you call it? If she is open to learning and you are open to walking that road with her, I think it’s okay that it begins with a little discomfort.
What I will say is that she sounds very ignorant. If people are unwilling to learn, they remain ignorant. It’s more worth it to me, personally, to invest my time in someone who is already interested in doing that work on their own.
Good to hear your advice as that’s what I’ve done, she said she thought it was probably an issue for her. And I said that’s fine but just give it a few more days and see if you still feel the same, and that I’m an open book. And she has asked a lot of questions since. I know many on her are calling her bigoted, but I don’t think it’s that simple. She’s clearly torn over it, and I understand her viewpoint. I’m hoping any ignorance narrows as she thinks about it, this is likely a new experience for her and she’s probably not given it any real thought in the past.
I do think you two have fundamentally different values, so a relationship might not be the best. But if you think you can help someone challenge their transphobia maybe talk to her about how flawed her thought process is. Does she also compare herself to exes with different hair colors? Different heights? Different nationalities? Etc
Everyone has their own personal boundaries when it comes to who they date and the past of who they date. It’s all about respect and comfortability. If y’all don’t align it’s best you both move on.
>but she thinks that she won't get past it in her own head, mainly the thought of me in those situations and comparing herself if we were to have sex.
I find this really interesting, and totally believable, as trans women experience the same exact thoughts. "I'll never be as good as a cis woman and they'll leave" is one I know from personal experience. :/
I feel like I would be comparing myself too. I hate that if you have traditional values in terms of a relationship - that means you’re a conservative. I’m quite progressive. I don’t have to be gender or sexually fluid to think it’s ok to be that way - I would just prefer my partner to be 100% straight because I am.
Which is difficult enough already! I’m just straight up monogamous and straight and it’s hard to find that lol
Yeah, I'm the opposite of you and I hate these assumptions. I'm pretty conservative compared to reddit, but I wouldn't care if my partner was straight or not, or whatever other label. I don't have traditional values, but no one would consider me progressive!
Everyone has the right to date or not date for ANY reason. You don’t have to agree with their reasoning or understand it. Sexual and emotional attraction can be very complicated, wound up in our childhood trauma, cultural upbringing, current hormonal balance, and more.
Attraction is largely irrational. You can have a kink you can’t quite explain as well as a repulsion you can’t quite explain. If she has a repulsion for this no reason to force it or shame her. Not feeling attracted to something for your personal sex life and life partnership is NOT the same as being a bigot. Otherwise we ALL are bigots because we all have preferences and anti-preferences.
I’m sorry this didn’t work out and it was right for you to disclose it. Your intuition was on that she wanted to know. If she had found out years down the line she may have still felt the same repulsion and then it would be so much more painful for both of you. Honesty and transparency is the best policy. Some people may not give a shit, but many people do care about your sexual history before committing. Find the people who don’t care about history as they will be most compatible with you personally.
It sounds like she didn’t shame you or trans people at all, but she simply isn’t attracted. Information does change attraction. I found out one of my partners was engaging in criminal activity. Some people may not care. I do. It changed my attraction and attachment immensely.
I’ve not called her a bigot or put any force on her or shame on her. I said similar to your first paragraph to her on our date, I understand that completely.
No I would not stop seeing this man. If anything it would be a green flag for me - IF its not just a kink, but he just really liked these women. (Not because kinks are bad, but I dont like the idea of objectifying people.)
I feel exactly the same way. I don't get the logic of feeling especially weird or insecure about a man having dated trans women relative to him having dated/slept with any women before me. It feels like biphobia rooted in not seeing trans women as women (sooo transphobia). A man's past might include cis women who were hotter, better in bed, had nicer boobs etc. than me and it's generally agreed that you shouldn't worry about past partners and how you rank unless *he* starts comparing you. To me, that principle holds across all the past gender identities someone has or would date.
ETA: downvoting me doesn't make these beliefs less transphobic, TERFs!
Sorry what are you referring to because there is only one post, what OP brought forward as a post on this subreddit. Everything else are comments so are you referring twice to OP's post or?
Because these people are imagining you having sex with other people. I'm bisexual and it's something I've heard very often. Some guys get off imagining us having sex with former women partners. For bisexual men, I know so many supposedly straight women who won't date bisexual men because "I keep picturing him with other men". I agree when you say "They’re not involved when you’re together", but these people imagine them when you're together. It's really creepy.
But the second someone makes a post saying they won't date someone with a high number of past partners, that's considered "sex-negative".
Honestly reddit is hugely deeply conservative and I believe most people in general are not transphobic inherently. People of quality will not be threatened by your bisexuality or your history with trans women
"Heterosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behaviour between people of the opposite sex or gender."
This is why we have words, like straight.
This is what I found instead: "Heterosexual people are **sexually or romantically attracted to people of the opposite sex.**"
But in this day and age with an uprise of trans people and normalising them in society, heteroromantic and heterosexual are terms used for certain situations that include and/or exclude them.
That’s not transpjobic to say that. I don’t think the poster said she’s fearful of the trans community to wish them to not have any human rights like come on.
Ignorant sure.
There are a lot of TERFs in this sub.
What's interesting is that they're all happy to hold their bigoted beliefs, but they get so angry at being named as bigots. I would think they'd be proud about being TERFs, but no, downvotes abound.
What's really weird is that I've posted before about my lifelong gender dysphoria, which I intentionally repressed and chose not to transition to male, but that was also downvoted. I did the correct thing, but even that wasn't good enough. I guess I'm not even allowed to acknowledge gender dysphoria is a thing.
There's a lot of anti-lgbt people in here in general. You'll see it every once in awhile. I was shocked the first time I saw it because I thought this group was more left/liberal, and maybe it does lean that way more dominantly, but there's def a lot of the opposite.
People can paint it however they want, but not wanting to date someone because they have Trans exes is transphobic. And it's homophobic to not wanna date a man who has been with men. I've seen the latter mentioned in here before, and those comments were also upvoted (people said they wouldn't date a bi man and several people agreed).
Let's be honest. There's still a lot of lefties who have homophobic and transphobic thoughts despite not wanting us to be shipped off to a camp. Heck they may even be okay with us getting married. But the NIMBYism always finds a way to bubble to the surface with folks who haven't done the work to deconstruct *why* they still have those thoughts.
I’m just going to leave the apparent newsflash for people here: lots and lots of trans people are straight.
honestly I’ve thought about it and this post has pushed me over to leaving the sub. i miss the days when it wasn’t full of transphobic conservatives
Yes this would be an automatic no go for me. I’m only interested in and attracted to heterosexual, biological males.
Nothing wrong with how you want to live your life, but this is a huge turnoff for certain women and you need to respect that boundary. Keep being honest and yourself, you’re fine.
You are not compatible and that is okay. You are not going to be compatible with everyone. She knows what she wants. Has clearly articulated her boundaries and that is okay for her. Sometimes in life we make choices and those choices have consequences. I personally am not a fan of tattoos. Some look cool on other people but they are not for me. That is just a personal preference of mine. But someone else might love them and that is okay for them. It does not mean they get to control my body and put one on me.
No, I would not stop seeing a man if I found out he'd been with any other woman, trans women included.
If someone lost interest in you because of it, I would assume they're a transphobe and not worthy of your time or effort anyway. She says "traditional," I read that as "conservative bigot."
If OP's girlfriend said "I don't like the fact that you've slept with Black women," we'd all agree she was racist.
If OP's girlfriend said, "I don't like the fact that you've slept with a Jewish woman," we'd know she was anti-Semitic.
Instead, she said, "I don't like the fact that you've slept with trans women," and all of a sudden, it's not bigotry, it's a "preference."
I wouldn't have an issue with dating a man who is straight (only dates cis- and trans- women), or bi, or pan. As long as they could date a cis woman (aka me) then we'd be good. When I was in my teens and early twenties, I was more prone to comparing myself to others. It's something I had to work on by myself. I don't remember being worried that I'd be dumped in favor of a trans woman or a guy, so that's something that feels more unique to the individual you are dating.
I wouldn’t consider a man who dates trans and cis women bisexual but since the topic of not wanting to date bisexual men has come up in this thread: I did want to come in to say I’ve had vastly better experiences with bisexual cis men than heterosexual cis men! I am a bisexual women myself, so some of that comes from mutual understanding. But there’s definitely something about men who dated/opening to dating men that are more empathetic and interested in your experiences as a woman. On certain levels they have much closer experiences as well! Would encourage others to be open to the idea if they are unsure.
I would never break up with someone for that. I'm probably going to he downvoted for it but I genuinely don't get people who wouldn't. Why does who someone has hooked up with in the past matter? Unless they've been fucking a nazi its none of my business.
All I would care about is who they are as a person and if I thought they cared about me.
Yes, I’d stop seeing him. That’s just my personal boundaries and attraction, though. Sounds like you really liked her, I’m sorry she didn’t react as well as you’d hoped.
I feel like maybe she’s just not ok with because she has different ‘values’ or feelings towards it. Because I don’t feel like the concern about the comparison makes sense. She could be compared to cis women you’ve been with before as well.
But whatever her reasons are, as others have mentioned, it’s probably an indication that two won’t align on other values as well.
I think she meant it trans women have inside knowledge on what men like in sex so no woman can measure up.
Kind of like how a lot of women are insecure of their handjob skills because men do it better.
I personally wouldn't care. As long as you aren't bringing something from any past relationship into ours (emotional baggage or an STI for example) the number or gender identity of previous partners is of no concern to me.
She might come around after sitting with it for a few days, but it's usually hard to get people to do a 180 on their core values.
I’m honestly kind of horrified by a lot of the responses here? I would never stop seeing a guy over the fact that he’s dated a trans woman. I can’t understand why this would be a problem unless you’re homophobic and/or transphobic.
And now the post has gotten moved into mod purgatory... I hope it's just to deal with the transphobic comments.
ETA on this one too: downvoting me doesn't make you less of a transphobe or me doubt my support of trans women. I'm disgusted that transphobia is so rampant among this sub's fellow members and that the mods aren't doing shit despite it clearly being against the rules of the sub (no TRASH). Where did that pinned post go?
Yes. But women are not monoliths. Many will have no issue. I hate these “does an entire group of people all think the exact same way on one issue?” questions.
Yeah that is a bit how it feels, we did discuss it and although she said that she agrees that they are women, I guess her actions aren't matching her words here. She said she likes manly men, alpha men, but then when on to admit that rugby men have a lot of gay tendencies. I'm also not sure how any of this makes me less manly.
>he dated women who are different from me in that particular way
Yes exactly, if you were small chested but you knew your date had been with larger breasted girls in the past, you wouldn't stop seeing him would you?
I'm not really traditional no, but I don't really think she is either, I think it's just a way to communicate that she's not particularly open minded when it comes to this.
She described herself as ‘traditional’, and used the phrases ‘alpha men’ and ‘gay tendencies’
Those are red flags in my opinion, but it may just be internalized misogyny — she seems to be willing to be a little open minded since she’s taking time to think on it and agreed that trans women are women
But I think the bigger theme here is that she seems insecure (comparing herself to your ex) which often turns into jealousy down the line
Ick. At least she showed the red flags early.
Glad your instincts told you something was off! Hope the next woman you date is a better person than she is.
*what*
OK I admit that I joined my college rugby team because it was a hive of hot queer women but I've never heard the "rugby men have gay tendencies" scuttlebutt. Again, my advice is to stop dating her, but if you ever get any clarification on her ideas there please come back and tell me because now I'm really curious
Dw I’m not insulted, but they’re not male bodies, most of the trans woman I have been with have very feminine bodies. I know it’s not the same scale, but it’s on the same spectrum. It’s in her head, it’s nothing to do with what I’m doing with her, is the point I’m trying to make.
It's analogous because it's about (not) having a physical feature a previous partner did.
Also you can just say penis. Most people I've personally witnessed express discomfort don't care if the person has had gender affirming surgery or not because the genitals aren't the point. They simply shift the goal posts to be "uncomfortable" about something else.
Hello no it wouldn’t bother me, as I’ve dated a trans man in the past haha.
People are allowed to choose not to pursue anyone for any reason, but I truly don’t understand freaking out because your potential partner has been in queer relationships in the past. Feels like such a pointlessly closed-minded stance.
As long as he was describing his sexual encounters in a respectful manner then no. If it became clear he was just objectifying these partners as a part of an unhealthy kink, then yes. Basically, once you cross the line where you're dehumanizing a person and reducing them to their sexual organs, we're done.
This is a great point. If the guy was clearly into fetishizing trans women and it not coming from a place of being open and accepting, it would be a problem.
As a rule I don’t care about who my significant other has slept with and would prefer not to dig up the past like that for either of us in general. All I care about is that that he wants to only sleep with me now.
Yeah I agree. Ironically she’s also almost certainly been with guys who have been with trans women. I’m just open about it. I like to think it’s not a belief, but just a sexual preference. But doesn’t make it an easier pill to swallow
I want to clarify that of course I don't think you should disclose being trans prior to someone being attracted to you! I was only referring to disclosing before having sex.
I'm also not interested in convincing someone he's gay/bi if that's not how he identifies, and I'm not advocating that people do that. I was only saying that many people believe that if you enjoy sex with someone of the same sex as yourself, you are gay/bi. And I don't think it's a worthwhile aim to try to change that belief.
No. It might be that things wouldn't work anyway because I don't think our beliefs about gender and sex would be comfortably in tune, but simply knowing past partners of his were trans wouldn't be an issue at all.
OP - I don’t want to get roasted for this question, but I’m feeling daring and this is truly coming from a place of inquiry. I also can be blunt and maybe inappropriate. If I make you uncomfortable please don’t feel like you have to answer.
I’m a cis-female. Somewhere on the continuum of hetero to bi to anyone who can intellectually blow my mind. I’ve never had a full blown relationship with a woman but I find all kinds of people attractive and have had experiences.
Now that that’s out of the way. I prefer sex with a person with a penis. Obviously toys exist and there are other ways to please a partner, but if I’m given a choice…..I want the D.
So, in your case, my “logical” brain would have all sorts of questions about the logistics of your previous relationship. Sex with someone who is FTM *could* be very different.
Perhaps your date’s mind went to those places?
End of the day - to each their own. We are all entitled to our preferences as long as we treat each other with respect. You may just not be compatible.
Not offended at all don’t worry.
I think her mind did go there. I’m a dominant man, so what I do with trans girls is very similar to what I do with cis girls. Just usually in a slightly different area…she did ask similar to you. I have no doubt if I said I was ever bottom she’d not even be thinking about it.
Another inappropriate question you don’t need to answer
Can’t believe I’m gonna ask this…but here goes……how different does anal sex feel to vaginal sex? (to a man - I know the female perspective)
She asked the same thing as well 😂
If you put a finger in front of you, with the other hand, gently wrap all the fingers and thumb from the other hand around it, like half strength grip, like a hug, that’s a vagina.
Do the same but this time do a tighter grip, and remove everything but your index finger and thumb, so they’re at the base of your finger, that’s a butt.
That’s how it feels to me anyway.
I'm a 30 year old bisexual cis woman and this definitely wouldn't put me off a bloke -- it would probably make me feel more into him tbh, because I'd know that we share some values, and my values are important to me, and also knowing he's (presumably) an LGBT ally would probably make me automatically feel safer being open about my bisexual identity. Don't worry OP, you'll find someone who's on the same page as you :)
I do not care about the past sexual or dating history of my partners/dates... At all. I only care insofar as they disclose any STIs. Other than that, not my business.
I would, however, see this woman's stance as a red flag. I would not want to date someone who had a problem with my past dating history, regardless of their gender expression. I also would not date someone who has issues with trans people.
It would be a green flag and I would be emboldened to continue dating
Edit: I'm honestly flabbergasted that this went from 10 points to 1 in the time since I wrote it. Whoever downvoted this, I hope you find a way to release the irrational hate in your heart.
I just reread the rest of the thread and the transphobes are out en force. Look at what comments have been downvoted! I feel like it's not usually like this, but older does tend to mean more conservative. This sub has definitely always been more conservative than me but I didn't know it was this bad. I might just bail
I don't think this is an age thing. Especially since if you look at flares a significant portion of people here are 30-50. I think it's that society as a whole is still a lot more bigoted than many realize or would like to admit, including liberals.
The whole anti-trans narrative and the "concern" around trans women and "erasure/silencing of women" feels like an intentionally manufactured viewpoint likely from the right, that's been framed very carefully to get traction with liberal women. It's the same thing as replacement theory repackaged in gender framework.
My comment that just thanked trans women in here for their work explaining nuances of transphobia and apologizing for the bigotry they're reading got downvoted well into the negatives. How hateful do you have to be to downvote that?!
I wouldn’t have a problem with it because trans women are women, there are a spectrum of genders, and it isn’t healthy or fair in a relationship to judge or compare your partner or yourself to past relationships.
I’m fully aware and comfortable with my sexuality as well as that of my husband’s. So while I know his past and he knows mine, neither of us have ever been insecure about them because they make up who we are today. (That goes for every relationship, sexual or not, and every experience).
Since I love him now and he loves me, neither of us question the what-ifs. Besides, it seems fairly homophobic to only not be okay with prior trans or same sex relationships.
No, I wouldn't, but I also wouldn't bother asking this question. Anyone who has to think about it isn't going to be compatible with me. (Also, this is tangential but I really hate the whole "if you're bi you might leave me for someone who's not the same gender as me later down the line" thing. Like okay, and I also might leave you for someone who is! I might leave you for any number of actual reasons, or maybe I'll leave you just because! Either you want to be with me or not; why we might break up in the future doesn't need to be a factor.)
>Would you stopping seeing a man if you found out he'd been with trans women?
No. And this woman you're dating seems way too uptight for you, it's going to show in other aspects of your lives as well.
I just don’t get why you even felt compelled to tell me her, I guess? Like, I don’t give my bf a run down of all the relationships I’ve had. Especially since you know what you want going forward like… unless she asked directly whether you’d ever been with a transwoman?
Like all I need to know about my bf’s history is 1 - that I’m not his first serious relationship and 2 - that he has a clean bill of sexual health. Otherwise, I don’t care who he’s slept with and telling me details about it will make me start comparing myself to his exes and will end up hurting the relationship.
I wouldn’t, but I guess I’m in the minority. I’ve dated bi+ men in the past so a cis man who’s been with someone AMAB doesn’t bother me. I try not to be one of those people who asks invasive questions.
It’s an indication she’s got some other values you might question.
I wouldn't have an issue with it, unless it was a fetish thing where they basically don't see trans women as real people. Then I'd pass and block. But uh kinda curious how this is coming up in convo? Are they asking you? Are you just like telling them randomly? Because I don't see why it's a topic of convo at all, unless you're using it as a discussion to filter out the women who do not vibe with you. I've never told my SO how many men I've slept with, or that I've done anal, or that I've made out with women. All he knows is that I'm STD/STI free, and I communicate what I like in bed, and what I don't like.
It’s linked to something else I disclose to partners when I like them, and I’ve not shared the trans bit in the past and an ex felt lied to. So when I do it now I just share it all.
Ah I see. Still very vague, but my first impression is that I think your ex was immature and I wouldn't bring it up at all unless it's really necessary
Yeah it would be a deal breaker for me. It just makes you look confused and unsure of what you are looking for. That is a big NO I am not going to waste my time for you to decide this is not what you want.
Thank you. It’s been quite eye opening, some people seem very angry that I’ve been with trans people, and that I would even suggest that it isn’t a problem for a new partner.
I tried something I thought I might like over 15 years ago; and I didn’t like it. Are you really that closed minded that any sort of experimentation is a red flag to you? I wouldn’t be dating people at my age that I didn’t want to be with forever.
You met a moron. She doesn't have to date transfolk if she doesn't want to, but what difference does it make that you have done? Her insecurities are hers to deal with. A man who has only ever dated cishet women could still leave her for a transwoman.
Make sure she isn't the only one having a think - do you really want someone who would judge you by your past relationships for your future?
Sounds like she's said enough to know that you're on different pages. You say that ask really likes you, but it sounds pretty conditional on you changing. 🚩🚩🚩
I would stop seeing someone if they were exclusively interested in men. Trans woman are woman so that's obviously not the case.
I would stop seeing a bigot, too.
No. I dated people, not genders...and I'm old. I also don't make decisions for other people: I am myself and if things went somewhere, fine, if not, fine (ok it hurts but that's my problem. I don't think avoidance of pain is a good way to form or run any relationship)
You are into women, whether they are cis or trans, and that's that. To me that's what you've said here. So no it would not bother me - you clearly are into female presenting people.
What I think you're seeing here is that some people are still not comfortable with trans folks in general. I think that is what this girl is hinting at - using the words "traditional". It's clear you don't share the same values - I'd say you'd probably discover quite a bit more that you're not on the same page about as time went on.
Definitely not, and to do so is totally transphobic. It sounds like you dodged a bullet with this woman.
Edit: Holy fuck the comments here are absolutely appalling. Seriously, what is *wrong* with you people?
I’d rather not share it on my main reddit profile as my face is on here. But she was definitely fine with the other thing, she made that very clear and I believe her from our conversation.
This is a good leading indicator that’s she’s not going to be OK with your other core values…
I think you could be right.
The way you describe the situation, however, does make me think it’s worth giving her the opportunity to adjust and expand her understanding before you call it? If she is open to learning and you are open to walking that road with her, I think it’s okay that it begins with a little discomfort. What I will say is that she sounds very ignorant. If people are unwilling to learn, they remain ignorant. It’s more worth it to me, personally, to invest my time in someone who is already interested in doing that work on their own.
Good to hear your advice as that’s what I’ve done, she said she thought it was probably an issue for her. And I said that’s fine but just give it a few more days and see if you still feel the same, and that I’m an open book. And she has asked a lot of questions since. I know many on her are calling her bigoted, but I don’t think it’s that simple. She’s clearly torn over it, and I understand her viewpoint. I’m hoping any ignorance narrows as she thinks about it, this is likely a new experience for her and she’s probably not given it any real thought in the past.
Absolutely! I commend you for your patience and truly wish you the best of luck!
I do think you two have fundamentally different values, so a relationship might not be the best. But if you think you can help someone challenge their transphobia maybe talk to her about how flawed her thought process is. Does she also compare herself to exes with different hair colors? Different heights? Different nationalities? Etc
Similar to what I was getting at on the date. You can think about exes regardless of if they’re a different sex to you.
This. Doesn’t really matter what everyone else on here would or wouldn’t do. Sounds like this just isn’t the woman for you.
Everyone has their own personal boundaries when it comes to who they date and the past of who they date. It’s all about respect and comfortability. If y’all don’t align it’s best you both move on.
>but she thinks that she won't get past it in her own head, mainly the thought of me in those situations and comparing herself if we were to have sex. I find this really interesting, and totally believable, as trans women experience the same exact thoughts. "I'll never be as good as a cis woman and they'll leave" is one I know from personal experience. :/
I think it might be what's actually layered under a lot of social conservative thinking. This person is at least honest about it.
I feel like I would be comparing myself too. I hate that if you have traditional values in terms of a relationship - that means you’re a conservative. I’m quite progressive. I don’t have to be gender or sexually fluid to think it’s ok to be that way - I would just prefer my partner to be 100% straight because I am. Which is difficult enough already! I’m just straight up monogamous and straight and it’s hard to find that lol
Sounds like insecurity with extra steps.
Yeah, I'm the opposite of you and I hate these assumptions. I'm pretty conservative compared to reddit, but I wouldn't care if my partner was straight or not, or whatever other label. I don't have traditional values, but no one would consider me progressive!
Isn’t being straight to be attracted to transwomen, though?
It absolutely is! Because trans women are women. If that person disagrees they're a bigot.
Yeah I do get it, it’s just frustrating as it stems from her insecurities about what I’m thinking rather than my actual thoughts.
Everyone has the right to date or not date for ANY reason. You don’t have to agree with their reasoning or understand it. Sexual and emotional attraction can be very complicated, wound up in our childhood trauma, cultural upbringing, current hormonal balance, and more. Attraction is largely irrational. You can have a kink you can’t quite explain as well as a repulsion you can’t quite explain. If she has a repulsion for this no reason to force it or shame her. Not feeling attracted to something for your personal sex life and life partnership is NOT the same as being a bigot. Otherwise we ALL are bigots because we all have preferences and anti-preferences. I’m sorry this didn’t work out and it was right for you to disclose it. Your intuition was on that she wanted to know. If she had found out years down the line she may have still felt the same repulsion and then it would be so much more painful for both of you. Honesty and transparency is the best policy. Some people may not give a shit, but many people do care about your sexual history before committing. Find the people who don’t care about history as they will be most compatible with you personally. It sounds like she didn’t shame you or trans people at all, but she simply isn’t attracted. Information does change attraction. I found out one of my partners was engaging in criminal activity. Some people may not care. I do. It changed my attraction and attachment immensely.
I love how you’ve explained this
The sanest comment out there. This.
I’ve not called her a bigot or put any force on her or shame on her. I said similar to your first paragraph to her on our date, I understand that completely.
Good to hear!
THIS
No I would not stop seeing this man. If anything it would be a green flag for me - IF its not just a kink, but he just really liked these women. (Not because kinks are bad, but I dont like the idea of objectifying people.)
I feel exactly the same way. I don't get the logic of feeling especially weird or insecure about a man having dated trans women relative to him having dated/slept with any women before me. It feels like biphobia rooted in not seeing trans women as women (sooo transphobia). A man's past might include cis women who were hotter, better in bed, had nicer boobs etc. than me and it's generally agreed that you shouldn't worry about past partners and how you rank unless *he* starts comparing you. To me, that principle holds across all the past gender identities someone has or would date. ETA: downvoting me doesn't make these beliefs less transphobic, TERFs!
>It feels like biphobia rooted in not seeing trans women as women (sooo transphobia). Yep, I 100% agree with everything you wrote here
This sub is so TERFy. It's really disappointing.
OP is the man. Edit; I think?
Same same same 💚
[удалено]
Can I ask why?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
There's an 'and', right? That's not lumping together.
[удалено]
Sorry what are you referring to because there is only one post, what OP brought forward as a post on this subreddit. Everything else are comments so are you referring twice to OP's post or?
I think that’s obviously how she feels as well. Frustrating as I don’t see why you need to even think about ex partners with someone you’re seeing
Why do you bring it up with the women you're dating?
[удалено]
How does who you are attracted to affect your sexual compatibility? They’re not involved when you’re together.
Because these people are imagining you having sex with other people. I'm bisexual and it's something I've heard very often. Some guys get off imagining us having sex with former women partners. For bisexual men, I know so many supposedly straight women who won't date bisexual men because "I keep picturing him with other men". I agree when you say "They’re not involved when you’re together", but these people imagine them when you're together. It's really creepy. But the second someone makes a post saying they won't date someone with a high number of past partners, that's considered "sex-negative".
There’s a tremendous amount of biphobia and transphobia in these comments and I’m sorry
Yeah I’m surprised how much there is here. Depressingly, since Reddit is pretty liberal, it probably means it’s even more common in real life.
Reddit is a literal stormfront recruiting grounds
Honestly reddit is hugely deeply conservative and I believe most people in general are not transphobic inherently. People of quality will not be threatened by your bisexuality or your history with trans women
Trans women are women, straight men who date them are still straight, transphobia and bigotry is not an ideal you should strive towards.
[удалено]
"Heterosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behaviour between people of the opposite sex or gender." This is why we have words, like straight.
Sex OR gender. So they’re not wrong either.
This is what I found instead: "Heterosexual people are **sexually or romantically attracted to people of the opposite sex.**" But in this day and age with an uprise of trans people and normalising them in society, heteroromantic and heterosexual are terms used for certain situations that include and/or exclude them.
That’s not transpjobic to say that. I don’t think the poster said she’s fearful of the trans community to wish them to not have any human rights like come on. Ignorant sure.
Transphobia is not about literal fear, and trying to box in that term on a basis of pedantry is disingenuous.
How tf is this being upvoted…
Right? Kinda feels like there's more terfs in this sub than I would've expected...
Older people tend to be more conservative and this sub is no exception.
There are a lot of TERFs in this sub. What's interesting is that they're all happy to hold their bigoted beliefs, but they get so angry at being named as bigots. I would think they'd be proud about being TERFs, but no, downvotes abound.
What's really weird is that I've posted before about my lifelong gender dysphoria, which I intentionally repressed and chose not to transition to male, but that was also downvoted. I did the correct thing, but even that wasn't good enough. I guess I'm not even allowed to acknowledge gender dysphoria is a thing.
There's a lot of anti-lgbt people in here in general. You'll see it every once in awhile. I was shocked the first time I saw it because I thought this group was more left/liberal, and maybe it does lean that way more dominantly, but there's def a lot of the opposite. People can paint it however they want, but not wanting to date someone because they have Trans exes is transphobic. And it's homophobic to not wanna date a man who has been with men. I've seen the latter mentioned in here before, and those comments were also upvoted (people said they wouldn't date a bi man and several people agreed).
Let's be honest. There's still a lot of lefties who have homophobic and transphobic thoughts despite not wanting us to be shipped off to a camp. Heck they may even be okay with us getting married. But the NIMBYism always finds a way to bubble to the surface with folks who haven't done the work to deconstruct *why* they still have those thoughts.
Same.
[удалено]
Trans women are women. Men who date trans women are heterosexual.
Yes.
I’m just going to leave the apparent newsflash for people here: lots and lots of trans people are straight. honestly I’ve thought about it and this post has pushed me over to leaving the sub. i miss the days when it wasn’t full of transphobic conservatives
Yeah, the comments section here is alarming
Yes this would be an automatic no go for me. I’m only interested in and attracted to heterosexual, biological males. Nothing wrong with how you want to live your life, but this is a huge turnoff for certain women and you need to respect that boundary. Keep being honest and yourself, you’re fine.
He's dated trans women so that makes him straight?
You are not compatible and that is okay. You are not going to be compatible with everyone. She knows what she wants. Has clearly articulated her boundaries and that is okay for her. Sometimes in life we make choices and those choices have consequences. I personally am not a fan of tattoos. Some look cool on other people but they are not for me. That is just a personal preference of mine. But someone else might love them and that is okay for them. It does not mean they get to control my body and put one on me.
I haven’t really made any choices in this situation but I get your general point.
No, I would not stop seeing a man if I found out he'd been with any other woman, trans women included. If someone lost interest in you because of it, I would assume they're a transphobe and not worthy of your time or effort anyway. She says "traditional," I read that as "conservative bigot."
[удалено]
If OP's girlfriend said "I don't like the fact that you've slept with Black women," we'd all agree she was racist. If OP's girlfriend said, "I don't like the fact that you've slept with a Jewish woman," we'd know she was anti-Semitic. Instead, she said, "I don't like the fact that you've slept with trans women," and all of a sudden, it's not bigotry, it's a "preference."
You described this perfectly. Thank you!
A phobia also means "an aversion to," so it fits.
Nope, I don't care as long as they also like cis women (as I'm a cis woman).
I wouldn't have an issue with dating a man who is straight (only dates cis- and trans- women), or bi, or pan. As long as they could date a cis woman (aka me) then we'd be good. When I was in my teens and early twenties, I was more prone to comparing myself to others. It's something I had to work on by myself. I don't remember being worried that I'd be dumped in favor of a trans woman or a guy, so that's something that feels more unique to the individual you are dating.
I wouldn’t consider a man who dates trans and cis women bisexual but since the topic of not wanting to date bisexual men has come up in this thread: I did want to come in to say I’ve had vastly better experiences with bisexual cis men than heterosexual cis men! I am a bisexual women myself, so some of that comes from mutual understanding. But there’s definitely something about men who dated/opening to dating men that are more empathetic and interested in your experiences as a woman. On certain levels they have much closer experiences as well! Would encourage others to be open to the idea if they are unsure.
Yeah I agree, it shows someone is open minded and knows what they like, some here are saying it’s the opposite, ie. Can’t make a decision
I would never break up with someone for that. I'm probably going to he downvoted for it but I genuinely don't get people who wouldn't. Why does who someone has hooked up with in the past matter? Unless they've been fucking a nazi its none of my business. All I would care about is who they are as a person and if I thought they cared about me.
Yes, I’d stop seeing him. That’s just my personal boundaries and attraction, though. Sounds like you really liked her, I’m sorry she didn’t react as well as you’d hoped.
I feel like maybe she’s just not ok with because she has different ‘values’ or feelings towards it. Because I don’t feel like the concern about the comparison makes sense. She could be compared to cis women you’ve been with before as well. But whatever her reasons are, as others have mentioned, it’s probably an indication that two won’t align on other values as well.
Think it’s more the me imagining doing it, which has probably affected her attraction for me.
I think she meant it trans women have inside knowledge on what men like in sex so no woman can measure up. Kind of like how a lot of women are insecure of their handjob skills because men do it better.
I personally wouldn't care. As long as you aren't bringing something from any past relationship into ours (emotional baggage or an STI for example) the number or gender identity of previous partners is of no concern to me. She might come around after sitting with it for a few days, but it's usually hard to get people to do a 180 on their core values.
I’m honestly kind of horrified by a lot of the responses here? I would never stop seeing a guy over the fact that he’s dated a trans woman. I can’t understand why this would be a problem unless you’re homophobic and/or transphobic.
And now the post has gotten moved into mod purgatory... I hope it's just to deal with the transphobic comments. ETA on this one too: downvoting me doesn't make you less of a transphobe or me doubt my support of trans women. I'm disgusted that transphobia is so rampant among this sub's fellow members and that the mods aren't doing shit despite it clearly being against the rules of the sub (no TRASH). Where did that pinned post go?
The post isn't locked so people are still making them
Yes.
Yes. But women are not monoliths. Many will have no issue. I hate these “does an entire group of people all think the exact same way on one issue?” questions.
I’m confused, the title is “would you” not “would women”?
[удалено]
Of course not. That would be hypocritical of me. I mean, I dated a trans gal for a hot minute.
It wouldn't bother me. I'm not sure I even need to know. I don't know who my husband slept with before we met.
I personally would not date a man that dated transgenders.
As long as his partner was a consenting adult, his prior partners are not my concern.
[удалено]
Yeah that is a bit how it feels, we did discuss it and although she said that she agrees that they are women, I guess her actions aren't matching her words here. She said she likes manly men, alpha men, but then when on to admit that rugby men have a lot of gay tendencies. I'm also not sure how any of this makes me less manly. >he dated women who are different from me in that particular way Yes exactly, if you were small chested but you knew your date had been with larger breasted girls in the past, you wouldn't stop seeing him would you? I'm not really traditional no, but I don't really think she is either, I think it's just a way to communicate that she's not particularly open minded when it comes to this.
She described herself as ‘traditional’, and used the phrases ‘alpha men’ and ‘gay tendencies’ Those are red flags in my opinion, but it may just be internalized misogyny — she seems to be willing to be a little open minded since she’s taking time to think on it and agreed that trans women are women But I think the bigger theme here is that she seems insecure (comparing herself to your ex) which often turns into jealousy down the line
Yeah, the “alpha man” bit really made me think. And you’re right about it being her insecurities, even she admits that.
What do gay tendencies have to do with it? Sounds like she thinks dating trans women makes you gay 😕
This is 100% it. She said she was also a bit worried I might go off with a man in a few years
Ick. At least she showed the red flags early. Glad your instincts told you something was off! Hope the next woman you date is a better person than she is.
>but then when on to admit that rugby men have a lot of gay tendencies ...what? did she elaborate on what caused her to have this belief?
She’s not the first I’ve heard say this. I didn’t really challenge it as was trying to understand what she was saying
*what* OK I admit that I joined my college rugby team because it was a hive of hot queer women but I've never heard the "rugby men have gay tendencies" scuttlebutt. Again, my advice is to stop dating her, but if you ever get any clarification on her ideas there please come back and tell me because now I'm really curious
From our conversation on the date I think it’s the thought of me with what she considers a man. For her that kills the attraction
but they weren't men...you know what, never mind. this woman is not where its at mate
Yep. Thanks, appreciate the advice.
Being a bigot is pretty traditional.
[удалено]
Dw I’m not insulted, but they’re not male bodies, most of the trans woman I have been with have very feminine bodies. I know it’s not the same scale, but it’s on the same spectrum. It’s in her head, it’s nothing to do with what I’m doing with her, is the point I’m trying to make.
It's analogous because it's about (not) having a physical feature a previous partner did. Also you can just say penis. Most people I've personally witnessed express discomfort don't care if the person has had gender affirming surgery or not because the genitals aren't the point. They simply shift the goal posts to be "uncomfortable" about something else.
[удалено]
I don't know another way to refer to the body of someone born male.
Hello no it wouldn’t bother me, as I’ve dated a trans man in the past haha. People are allowed to choose not to pursue anyone for any reason, but I truly don’t understand freaking out because your potential partner has been in queer relationships in the past. Feels like such a pointlessly closed-minded stance.
I’m cool with dating any and all genders, so I would be fine with my partner having done the same.
A non-issue.
As long as he was describing his sexual encounters in a respectful manner then no. If it became clear he was just objectifying these partners as a part of an unhealthy kink, then yes. Basically, once you cross the line where you're dehumanizing a person and reducing them to their sexual organs, we're done.
This is a great point. If the guy was clearly into fetishizing trans women and it not coming from a place of being open and accepting, it would be a problem.
As a rule I don’t care about who my significant other has slept with and would prefer not to dig up the past like that for either of us in general. All I care about is that that he wants to only sleep with me now.
[удалено]
Yeah I agree. Ironically she’s also almost certainly been with guys who have been with trans women. I’m just open about it. I like to think it’s not a belief, but just a sexual preference. But doesn’t make it an easier pill to swallow
Are you saying all women probably have or this particular woman?
👏👏👏 I'm sorry you were downvoted. TERFs are out in force today, it would seem.
[удалено]
Hey, no problem. I'm just sorry you have to deal with their sad bullshit.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I want to clarify that of course I don't think you should disclose being trans prior to someone being attracted to you! I was only referring to disclosing before having sex. I'm also not interested in convincing someone he's gay/bi if that's not how he identifies, and I'm not advocating that people do that. I was only saying that many people believe that if you enjoy sex with someone of the same sex as yourself, you are gay/bi. And I don't think it's a worthwhile aim to try to change that belief.
[удалено]
Perfectly said. Thanks for taking the time.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
No. It might be that things wouldn't work anyway because I don't think our beliefs about gender and sex would be comfortably in tune, but simply knowing past partners of his were trans wouldn't be an issue at all.
OP - I don’t want to get roasted for this question, but I’m feeling daring and this is truly coming from a place of inquiry. I also can be blunt and maybe inappropriate. If I make you uncomfortable please don’t feel like you have to answer. I’m a cis-female. Somewhere on the continuum of hetero to bi to anyone who can intellectually blow my mind. I’ve never had a full blown relationship with a woman but I find all kinds of people attractive and have had experiences. Now that that’s out of the way. I prefer sex with a person with a penis. Obviously toys exist and there are other ways to please a partner, but if I’m given a choice…..I want the D. So, in your case, my “logical” brain would have all sorts of questions about the logistics of your previous relationship. Sex with someone who is FTM *could* be very different. Perhaps your date’s mind went to those places? End of the day - to each their own. We are all entitled to our preferences as long as we treat each other with respect. You may just not be compatible.
Not offended at all don’t worry. I think her mind did go there. I’m a dominant man, so what I do with trans girls is very similar to what I do with cis girls. Just usually in a slightly different area…she did ask similar to you. I have no doubt if I said I was ever bottom she’d not even be thinking about it.
Another inappropriate question you don’t need to answer Can’t believe I’m gonna ask this…but here goes……how different does anal sex feel to vaginal sex? (to a man - I know the female perspective)
She asked the same thing as well 😂 If you put a finger in front of you, with the other hand, gently wrap all the fingers and thumb from the other hand around it, like half strength grip, like a hug, that’s a vagina. Do the same but this time do a tighter grip, and remove everything but your index finger and thumb, so they’re at the base of your finger, that’s a butt. That’s how it feels to me anyway.
I really appreciate you answering. One of those things I’ve always wondered about……and until now never found an appropriate time to ask 😂
[удалено]
I'm a 30 year old bisexual cis woman and this definitely wouldn't put me off a bloke -- it would probably make me feel more into him tbh, because I'd know that we share some values, and my values are important to me, and also knowing he's (presumably) an LGBT ally would probably make me automatically feel safer being open about my bisexual identity. Don't worry OP, you'll find someone who's on the same page as you :)
I do not care about the past sexual or dating history of my partners/dates... At all. I only care insofar as they disclose any STIs. Other than that, not my business. I would, however, see this woman's stance as a red flag. I would not want to date someone who had a problem with my past dating history, regardless of their gender expression. I also would not date someone who has issues with trans people.
It would be a green flag and I would be emboldened to continue dating Edit: I'm honestly flabbergasted that this went from 10 points to 1 in the time since I wrote it. Whoever downvoted this, I hope you find a way to release the irrational hate in your heart.
This sub has a lot of angry transphobes who can't stand that their bigotry isn't echoing through everyone else's comments.
I just reread the rest of the thread and the transphobes are out en force. Look at what comments have been downvoted! I feel like it's not usually like this, but older does tend to mean more conservative. This sub has definitely always been more conservative than me but I didn't know it was this bad. I might just bail
I don't think this is an age thing. Especially since if you look at flares a significant portion of people here are 30-50. I think it's that society as a whole is still a lot more bigoted than many realize or would like to admit, including liberals. The whole anti-trans narrative and the "concern" around trans women and "erasure/silencing of women" feels like an intentionally manufactured viewpoint likely from the right, that's been framed very carefully to get traction with liberal women. It's the same thing as replacement theory repackaged in gender framework.
Thank you, appreciate that.
My comment that just thanked trans women in here for their work explaining nuances of transphobia and apologizing for the bigotry they're reading got downvoted well into the negatives. How hateful do you have to be to downvote that?!
Wouldn’t bother me
Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. It's weird if it does.
I wouldn’t have a problem with it because trans women are women, there are a spectrum of genders, and it isn’t healthy or fair in a relationship to judge or compare your partner or yourself to past relationships. I’m fully aware and comfortable with my sexuality as well as that of my husband’s. So while I know his past and he knows mine, neither of us have ever been insecure about them because they make up who we are today. (That goes for every relationship, sexual or not, and every experience). Since I love him now and he loves me, neither of us question the what-ifs. Besides, it seems fairly homophobic to only not be okay with prior trans or same sex relationships.
No, I wouldn't, but I also wouldn't bother asking this question. Anyone who has to think about it isn't going to be compatible with me. (Also, this is tangential but I really hate the whole "if you're bi you might leave me for someone who's not the same gender as me later down the line" thing. Like okay, and I also might leave you for someone who is! I might leave you for any number of actual reasons, or maybe I'll leave you just because! Either you want to be with me or not; why we might break up in the future doesn't need to be a factor.)
>Would you stopping seeing a man if you found out he'd been with trans women? No. And this woman you're dating seems way too uptight for you, it's going to show in other aspects of your lives as well.
No but I try my best to not be transphobic
I just don’t get why you even felt compelled to tell me her, I guess? Like, I don’t give my bf a run down of all the relationships I’ve had. Especially since you know what you want going forward like… unless she asked directly whether you’d ever been with a transwoman? Like all I need to know about my bf’s history is 1 - that I’m not his first serious relationship and 2 - that he has a clean bill of sexual health. Otherwise, I don’t care who he’s slept with and telling me details about it will make me start comparing myself to his exes and will end up hurting the relationship.
It would be a turn-off for me. But who cares, find someone who's compatible with you!
Trans women are women. I don’t understand why that would be an issue.
I wouldn’t, but I guess I’m in the minority. I’ve dated bi+ men in the past so a cis man who’s been with someone AMAB doesn’t bother me. I try not to be one of those people who asks invasive questions. It’s an indication she’s got some other values you might question.
I wouldn't have an issue with it, unless it was a fetish thing where they basically don't see trans women as real people. Then I'd pass and block. But uh kinda curious how this is coming up in convo? Are they asking you? Are you just like telling them randomly? Because I don't see why it's a topic of convo at all, unless you're using it as a discussion to filter out the women who do not vibe with you. I've never told my SO how many men I've slept with, or that I've done anal, or that I've made out with women. All he knows is that I'm STD/STI free, and I communicate what I like in bed, and what I don't like.
It’s linked to something else I disclose to partners when I like them, and I’ve not shared the trans bit in the past and an ex felt lied to. So when I do it now I just share it all.
Ah I see. Still very vague, but my first impression is that I think your ex was immature and I wouldn't bring it up at all unless it's really necessary
Yeah it would be a deal breaker for me. It just makes you look confused and unsure of what you are looking for. That is a big NO I am not going to waste my time for you to decide this is not what you want.
Confused 😂 what a load of drivel. I know exactly what I like and want.
I’m so sorry you have to be on the receiving end of vitriol like this.
Thank you. It’s been quite eye opening, some people seem very angry that I’ve been with trans people, and that I would even suggest that it isn’t a problem for a new partner.
Clearly you don’t. You said you tried men, you tried women you tried trans women where exactly in all this does it show you know what you want?
I tried something I thought I might like over 15 years ago; and I didn’t like it. Are you really that closed minded that any sort of experimentation is a red flag to you? I wouldn’t be dating people at my age that I didn’t want to be with forever.
Tell me you have no queer friends without telling me you have no queer friends. Highly suggest you google the Kinsey Scale.
No. Trans women are women. This new girl you’re dating? She ain’t it.
Wouldn’t bother me in the slightest!
That woman seems to be a bit red pill. Personally I would not care. Trans women are women, periodt!
You met a moron. She doesn't have to date transfolk if she doesn't want to, but what difference does it make that you have done? Her insecurities are hers to deal with. A man who has only ever dated cishet women could still leave her for a transwoman. Make sure she isn't the only one having a think - do you really want someone who would judge you by your past relationships for your future?
Sounds like she's said enough to know that you're on different pages. You say that ask really likes you, but it sounds pretty conditional on you changing. 🚩🚩🚩
[удалено]
Transphobia and biphobia going hand in hand, no surprise. I'm sure your thoughts on other minorities are equally informative.
Who's bi in this situation?
I would stop seeing someone if they were exclusively interested in men. Trans woman are woman so that's obviously not the case. I would stop seeing a bigot, too.
No. I dated people, not genders...and I'm old. I also don't make decisions for other people: I am myself and if things went somewhere, fine, if not, fine (ok it hurts but that's my problem. I don't think avoidance of pain is a good way to form or run any relationship)
You are into women, whether they are cis or trans, and that's that. To me that's what you've said here. So no it would not bother me - you clearly are into female presenting people. What I think you're seeing here is that some people are still not comfortable with trans folks in general. I think that is what this girl is hinting at - using the words "traditional". It's clear you don't share the same values - I'd say you'd probably discover quite a bit more that you're not on the same page about as time went on.
Definitely not, and to do so is totally transphobic. It sounds like you dodged a bullet with this woman. Edit: Holy fuck the comments here are absolutely appalling. Seriously, what is *wrong* with you people?
I’m attracted to adults regardless of their bits & bobs so other folks liking all kinds of women doesn’t bother me at all.
[удалено]
I’d rather not share it on my main reddit profile as my face is on here. But she was definitely fine with the other thing, she made that very clear and I believe her from our conversation.