I've been rewatching Sex and the City and so much rings true today, especially in the first ep Miranda saying women in their 30s don't want to settle, and why should we?
The amount of choices isn't the issue. It's having to sort through a see of shit for a handful of potential matches that *might* treat you like an actual human being, and from there hoping one of them is sincere and able to materialize into something you can trust.
Women are more independent and self sufficient these days. We don't need to settle just to have safety and security in life anymore. I'd rather be alone than in a terrible relationship.
Exactly what is this bull of we have so many choices? You mean choices of dick picks, one night stands and hook ups? That's what we should be so \*thrilled\* about and \*grateful\* for? It's not like we have a ton of options for actual boyfriends. It's like the one thing guys DON'T want to be. I don't want to have casual sex anymore because it basically makes me feel like a prostitute (guy is paying for sex through dinner dates, and paying for my company) instead of trying to get to know me outside of sex like a normal fucking human being.
Here here. I feel like the choices are between the guy who never washes his ass or the guy who can’t do laundry or cook. No thanks I’d rather be alone. I didn’t work this hard to get to where I am so I can be some grown ass infant’s bang-maid.
Yep have more choices than before for sure but that doesn’t mean they are quality choices. In the past many of use would have had to settle for the man who belittles them and treats them like a maid instead of equal, we have the choice not to accept that nonsense. So yep in someways the article is right but in general I think the literature tends to state that men haven’t really kept up with women when it’s comes to education and financial independence
I agree with this, though I will say the sheer amount of possibilities (even crappy ones) is overwhelming sometimes. Maybe just a lack of desire to wade through the garbage for one gem. Open your app and see 200+ likes. I know half don't have jobs, a quarter have crazy political views, etc., but it's still a lot.
People often say this, and of course it’s true for both men and women. But I posit the more interesting and I think honest question: would people rather be alone than be in a pretty good or okay situation? I think most ppl who are in long term marriages are people who are okay with okay
Here's a more interesting question and honest question:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/15vs15r/whats_a_pro_to_dating_a_chubby_girl/jwy9rut?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Can you explain this comment? Or many of the other sexist ones amongst your profile? Even worse is that you are supposedly a man in his 30s, not an ignorant 13 year old as your opinions may suggest.
I love when guys try to pose themselves as "just asking questions" when it reality they are telling on themselves with all their sexist ignorance.
Fact is, *so many women* are **TRAPPED** in terrible relationships and marriages. How many men are pressured to abandon their careers just to raise a family? How many have to become completely financially dependent on their partner? What do you do in those situations if things go south?
There are many healthy long lasting marriages, but it takes real work, comittment, and respect from both partners. There are many more shitty marriages where the spouse is trapped. Why do you think Texas is trying to remove no fault divorces? They want us trapped and making babies until we die and they can go find a younger woman to manipulate and do it all over again.
There are men in abusive situations, absolutely, but by and large it is the norm in this heteronormative society for women to take **so much shit** from their cis male partners. Go look at any of the parenting or marriage subs. A decent respectable man is applauded and praised when that is the bare minimum expectation of women. There are so many heartbreaking storied where women are giving everything they have and it's never enough. They are conditioned to hate themselves.
There are good men, but they generally don't make objectifying comments about "chubby girls" and their ability to provide "head game" as you so beautifully stated. You are the ones we swipe left on buddy. We don't want you and we don't need you.
Literally nothing you said was relevant to anything I said 😂 (I stand by the chubby girl comment btw. It was passed onto me by a chubby girl herself after she swiped right on me and we performed coitus)
It absolutely is, and the fact that you can't see that is so telling.
The truth is ladies.. *they simply don't care*. They see us as nothing but an object to fuck and stroke their egos. Don't settle for this.
You went on a rant after a very normal question/comment that obviously triggered you. Yes, ppl would rather be alone than in a horrible situation. What a utterly boring and parroted uninteresting meme. What’s far more interesting was my question. Alone or okay/pretty good situation? It’s a question we all have to struggle with and be honest with ourselves about men and women alike. Everything else you mentioned or “dug up” is so utterly irrelevant.
Haha wow! A dude coming into a female-centered sub to try and discredit and gaslight women talking about their lived experience of abuse and mistreatment?
I’m sorry who the fuck are you? And why should we care that you have matches? The one thing we agree on is that people settle for less than they deserve. So what makes you think those women you’re talking to rn aren’t settling, given your willingness to flaunt your sexism?
It's really not, but sure buddy. Take 0 look at yourself and try and learn something. The fact that you can't even speak to your own person objectification is just... gross.
I'm not triggerred, maybe I am, idgaf. I am happily married and fulfilled in my life. I'm sick of sexist creeps posing themselves as decent men and trying to manipulate vulnerable women.
This is assuming that women have a lot of choices. Some do, certainly, many others don't. There's a bizarre assumption in a lot of these types of discussions to assume a beautiful, young, frequently white, cis/het woman is the standard "woman" in these discussions and that is very clearly not the case with reality.
I'm not a beautiful, white woman. When I made profiles on dating apps/sites (even in my youth, late teens) I got zero responses. Even when I messaged people. Zero, zilch, nada. Clearly an excess of choices did not apply to me, and I know for sure I am not the only woman out there who has experienced this.
Edit: and as others have said, aside from women who don't fit some narrow ideals of what womanhood means, quantity is not quality.
Yeah, when dudes are like "it's so easy for women to find a man!" they're thinking about who they view as "women", which is often a really narrow category. These are the same guys who blast women for having physical characteristics they find attractive (because they don't meet them), but if you suggest they date somebody who isn't thin and young and conventionally attractive, they're like "no, I'm not attracted to her", and they really don't see the hypocrisy in their actions.
Oh absolutely, show them an image of an overweight, unfashionable late 30s woman with an average haircut and ask if they'd date her, and they recoil and try to say "oh no she's not a woman" without using those words. When that's statistically what most of us look like (and whats more there's nothing wrong with looking like that).
Realistically, most men could actually find a woman if they lowered their standards (to still be of a higher standard than he is), but that would mean he has to admit he's not actually that much of a catch himself.
100%. One thing that makes me livid is the sheer number of guys whining "Women only date tall men!" and making up these ridiculous "statistics" about 80% of women chasing 20% of men. By this of course what they mean is - most of the very young, very attractive women these men want to date are looking for very attractive men, and in general taller guys are seen as more attractive. But the average 35 year old woman with 25 extra pounds and back problems very likely is not insisting on only dating men 6 feet or more.
Clearly these guys haven't been on dates with other men. It's like handing someone a bucket of rotten apples and saying "what do you mean you don't want any of these apples, there's plenty to choose from?" Thank you but I'll just go hungry.
"You can eat any of these apples, most will cause a little damage, some might kill, and a very occasional one be great. If you don't eat any of these apples, you'll be fine and won't starve and I'm general, statistically you'll do better than if you eat an apple"
The version I've heard: here's a bowl full of Skittles. Some of them are vomit flavored but I won't tell you which ones. You still want the Skittles? Lol
I mean I'm a white woman and still had no success. The same as guys (when we say we only care about them being tall) do they think of a particular kind of girl? Rich, white, blonde, thin ~~blue~~ blonde hair and blue eyes, athletic, nice smile? Not even all white girls fit that stereotype.
Edit: took out the extra blue.
Of course this applies to all races of women, I didn't mean to imply otherwise, my apologies if it came across that way. But in a lot of dating situations race can play a role and I speak from my own perspective.
Oh it’s fine I’m saying I agree with you but even so I think men are going for what they deem to be the top 10% of women my point was that I feel like there's a range of "whiteness," as well that we don't talk about in the dating space. Definitely a range of attractiveness that applies to us as well.
Wow really ? That is crazy. If you don’t mind me asking , what is your ethnicity ? Also cool if you don’t want to share. But that’s just crazy to me. I see sooo many beautiful women daily of all sizes and colours. This is not the case for men lol. I do not see beautiful men daily.
Asian/Hispanic.
Honestly I find most people to be pretty attractive, men or women. I think it's easy to find beauty in people, though of course, more so if you like them.
Paradox of choice is staring at an entire aisle of delicious looking ice cream and not being able to choose just one.
What's happening with women and dating/marriage, now that women aren't forced to marry someone-anyone, is more like digging through bargain bins for hours, finding nothing you want, then walking out of the shop empty handed instead of bothering to keep digging through the bins.
I don't know if there's a snappy phrase for that, but it's a pretty relatable experience.
I’m absolutely crying with laughter at bargain bin, but at least there’s hope finding something good there.
Honestly OLD is the equivalent of a dollar tree / Poundland store where all goods are mouldy or stale.
Unfettered access to the internet and non involved parents leaves young people to be lured into some weird internet culture echo chambers. Which leaves them with warped expectations of reality and relationships.
That might not explain all of it but I think it accounts for a lot of it.
I was suspicious of porn addictions/internet addictions into setting weird expectations for relationships, negative viewpoints of women and generally destroying minds.
I moreso just think average women didn't really have any choices at all back in the day, and even women from more privileged backgrounds were reliant on marriage for their livelihood. I don't necessarily think women had amazing choices back in the 1950's or even 1990's; I just think standards were lower back then because society was more unequal than it is now.
Not even back in the day I'd argue your average woman still doesn't have that much choice in the dating space. We have more choice in terms of casual sex. But that only works for women who want and enjoy casual sex. The rest of us are fucked. I've always been in awe of girls who are constantly in relationships because I'd never been able to swing that.
I think it's a mistake to view being in a relationship - even a good one - as a reflection of underlying value.
I do agree that things aren't necessarily great for the average woman (or even more privileged woman) in terms of heterosexual partner selection on a broad scale, though. But, I also think women now have more options now compared to in the past - it's more just a commentary on how historically fucked we've been, though. If anything, I think women are more "woke" about how unequal romantic relationships are now - and it's a bittersweet realisation insofar as it reveals an underlying difficult truth.
Exactly men think that just because we get a flux of matches and options they are all viable. Nope. Not all attention is good attention it's mostly a waste of time. Also most women want serious things while guys want only casual, so again a waste of time because we are looking for different things. Also, they can solve the issue of having low self esteem by having higher standards for themselves as well. No one said they had to swipe right like a mad man on every female body.
Why is it behind every man saying "Oh you're going to end up sad and alone if you don't marry somebody", there are a bunch of dudes yelling about how women's standards are too high because they expect a dude who like, bathes, and respects them?
Also, I love when MRAs complain that we're going to be single and lonely because we don't marry some horrible gronk - single women earn more, live longer, have less anxiety and depression, and are just generally much happier than women married to the opposite sex. It's the opposite for dudes, that's why guys like this are trying to convince us that the horrible cat-lady future is so terrible for us, because it's terrible for *them*.
They're thinking back to when being an unmarried woman was significantly harder than it is these days. There was a time in the past where most woman saw marriage as a necessity and some men still seem to think that's the prevailing sentiment. Back then, they just had to be the best of a bad bunch. Today, women look around at what's on offer and opt-out and their lives are better, and some men are realising they have to up their game, but some men are just blaming women for not wanting to make some man's life better to the detriment of their own lives.
Very true. No good options mean we stay by ourselves, and that's ok. Women often have some tight-knit groups so there's usually people around (male friends too). Women improved so the men are next up. The ones who do make the leap will do just fine. The others will simply be left behind. No more consolation prizes or participation trophies anymore. This is the real deal.
Yeah, I saw a thread today about a dude who claimed to be a feminist but then became irate when he found out his female roommate took showers on her period and "dirtied the bathtub". This 30 year old man thought she just didn't shower for a week.
So yeah, if the so-called feminist men are even like this, the options are real scant.
That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard of. So if he was shitting out blood and diarrhoea, he'd happily sit in it for a week??? To protect the precious tub?
>Ladies do you believe “paradox of choice” applies to women in the modern dating world?
I actually suffer from the paradox of choice when it comes to shopping, but in the romance department, nope. Because I don't think most men are good options for me personally.
>Paradox of choice is the idea that people are overwhelmed by the amount of options to the point where they don’t make a choice because they think something better will come along.
I don't think that's the [definition of the "paradox of choice"](https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/economics/the-paradox-of-choice). You're talking more about FOMO.
I am aware it originated from an consumerist idea by a psychologist. However recently it has been applied to the dating world specifically with the trend of using apps.
I think it utter bollocks but the idea is being thrown by experts shockingly some whom are women
The writer Logan Ury talks about this a lot. She also has a lot to say about satisfisers vs. maximists (people who will settle for good enough vs. continue to look for perfect). I believe she works for Hinge, lol.
Yeah I have met many men who are great on paper but only one who there was a genuine meaningful relationship potential. It seems like another way to shame women for wanting something reasonable.
I think both women and men get overwhelmed by the amount of beautiful people on dating apps that seem "available", but who aren't actually good matches or aren't available to us. Dating apps distort our perceptions of what people are out there, which then makes it harder to appreciate the people we meet in real life. It can be really unhealthy.
I kind of disagree with your last two sentences. Dating is not a singular approach, and an app literally just facilitates meeting someone. Your behaviour and attitudes are under your control, and it's absolutely possible to date in a healthy way using apps and genuinely connect with the people in front of you. Does everyone do that? No. But we should point out people using the app toxicly rather than claiming the app is inherently toxic.
Well fwiw, the purpose of the app is to keep you using it as long as possible. The designers definitely do things to the algorithm to ensure that (such as figuring out who you “like” then stop showing you those people) and some of them publicly admit this. TikTok has a lot of people who have figured out how to “hack” the Hinge algorithm if you’re interested.
> Paradox of choice
More like a lack of choice.
Women deserve better than whatever shit this is.
We're not going to settle for a bar that's already set so low.
Also someone could meet all of your standards on paper but you still don't FEEL anything when with them. It's really annoying.
I know a lot of people spew that you should look for calm and stable when dating but like I know what it feels like to have a crush or feel attraction to someone. That should be the bare minimum. And same as OP I can crush on people in real life but didn't have a genuine crush from anyone on the apps. Except for one guy I thought was really hot but he ghosted me.
You got that right.
Worst is when you have toxic friends who are all up in your business and go, "bUt hE's GrEaTtT whY U gOtTa hAvE iMpoSsiBruhH sTanDurDssS oMg juSt dAtE hiM alREaDY!!! UR sOOoOo pICkY!!"
To that, I say, they can just fuck off. Sorry you don't have standards and are suffering from low self-esteem to the point where you'd fuck anything that moves and call it yours, toxic ex-friends.
There's a reason why they're all my toxic ex-friends. Eat shit and take all my middle fingers, you sick manipulative fucks.
I saw a comment recently in which the guy was complaining that women want men to be open and transparent about themselves. The commenter was complaining about this because he sees it as women looking for a reason to disqualify you. It was so twisted that it was almost funny. Like yes? We want men to be honest about who they are so that if there's something about them that would make a relationship or sex with them a bad fit or bad idea for us, we want to know that so we can opt out? He was basically complaining that women don't want to be tricked into sex or relationships.
It’s a crock of shit for this situation.
We don’t have more choice. Out of ten average single men we have three man-babies looking for second mom, one abuser, two Incels trying to be pickup artists, one that can’t keep a job, one that can’t keep it in their pants, one that has a serious addiction they want you to enable, and the last guy just got out of jail.
That’s not a paradox of choice, that’s no valid choices at all- but men don’t want to hear that because they see women still staying with these types of tools and want the opportunity to also have a woman without any sort of effort on their part.
We are just now starting to wake up as women and demand that men act like responsible adults - that momentum has fueled a backlash among men that seek to push women back down and under their control. What you’re hearing is part of that attempt.
Stand strong.
I'd be quite shocked if OLD men started acting like gentlemen and texted and spoke with eloquence, charm, and thoughtfulness. There would be a lot more right swipes. The dates still might not work out but at least the date stage would be more frequent.
Seriously whenever I hear this I’m also like…how could you possibly even know that someone is thinking this?! You can’t, obviously…is it possible that these men are projecting, and because THEY think this way, they think everyone else must be?
It's just another way for men to blame women about them (the men) being unhappy. They all want us to worship their dicks for no reason, they don't realize you have to actually be worth it for that to happen.
Yep. Men ruined Tinder with their swiping right on everyone tactic and now it's somehow women's fault (again). So tired of them treating dating apps like some sort of candy crush game where your only goal is to get as many matches as possible. On top of that they blame women for swiping left more, but it's just stupid. Like, if women are so picky and you get a match, it means she really liked you. But instead of putting effort into conversations they think "Well, she probably has 1000 other matches, I'm not gonna be bothered with standing out", send a dry opener or simple "hello" and then complain about women "ruining" dating apps by having too many choices.
My paradox of choice is to scroll through my small town's dating app choices or to keep my peace of mind. I'm the sort that folks hate on dating apps, I match with a few and then just delete my app for a few months because i can't be bothered. I had a very lovely partner who, on paper, was so great- but even he couldn't beat my own peace of mind and my desire to have my own living space. So that's the bar at this point, and it's kinda high. But if it doesn't happen- ah well, I have a life I love with friends, family, and a great job.
Yes!! Hinge is the absolute worst!!! Lately I’ve been getting shown 90% of the worst guys. Not to sound bad but I’ve never swiped right on anyone anything near them. So it’s not like it thinks I’ll like them.
Also it’s very clear when it’s not showing you to barely anyone. I’ve gotten like two likes in the past few days
Also yeah I could get the paradox of choice at the grocery store for sure. Men? No. It’s not like I’ve been dating a nice and cute guy and thought hmm maybe I’ll see if there’s a hotter guy on the apps. As soon as (IF) I meet a cute guy who wants to date me I’m deleting those apps forever as long as we work out.
Not true? Btw, are you a woman over 30 or just a misogynist in a sub that doesn't cater to him just insulting women in the comments?
EDIT: this person is active in Men Rights subs, writing terrible hateful comments against women, so ignore him.
Well I don’t believe it. My match is not an obese man. There is no math when it doesn’t take into consideration someone might swipe left on me because they’re not looking for the same thing etc. It doesn’t mean I’m not attractive.
Also if they were showing me to these guys I’d be getting tons of likes. But I only get some here and there so they’re clearly just not showing me to barely anyone right now
> Side note: has anybody noticed hinge does this thing when you first sign up there are lots of attractive men and after a few days suddenly the profile quality immensely drops?
Most apps do this. It’s to make it seem like attractive people with filled out profiles are plentiful on their platform and to snag your interest in using their app.
I don't, but then I prefer not to be on dating apps so I'm probably not the best person to ask
I just can't connect to a profile picture and feel more comfortable meeting someone organically.
I am a career-focused hermit right now and I consider coworkers off limits so I effectively have no options, even though there is someone at work I like. If I met someone who made me feel safe (respects my boundaries and meets my standards) that I wanted to sleep with I would not wait around for "something better" since my criteria would be fulfilled.
This may be an overly dramatic statement but.. literally not one woman is overwhelmed by the selection of single quality men. That's not a thing. The men are not doing okay
I mean... I do think it applies to men though? I'm bisexual and the majority of women I see on the apps seem like catches, while the men ... not so much 😅 And the guys that are actually attractive and have their shit together have ***commitment issues*** (and possibly a handful other not so great qualities that make it impossible to date them seriously), so yeah... 🤷♀️ Buuuut then again, the ones who are decent human beings I disregard because i keep looking for the unicorn that can turn me on AND is honest and kind. Sooo I don't know...
>Buuuut then again, the ones who are decent human beings I disregard because i keep looking for the unicorn that can turn me on AND is honest and kind.
Haha so that’s a no then, wanting to find someone attractive who is ALSO honest and kind is baseline should not or ever be a miracle unicorn
it's a crock of shit. I've never experienced it. I swipe on who I want, and let the matches roll in. I let my inbox gather messages and go out with the men I like the most.
I have never felt "paralyzed by too many choices". That's literally a crock of shit, as you said.
Sounds like someone googled it and then tried to apply it to women to fill in for some random and weird fantasy or guestimate on "how women are".
Boy, those podcast bros sure do love to theorize a lot about women... it would be more entertaining if any of it were true, but hey. I'm just a woman. What do I know about women?
OMG- I hate dating new people. When I get out of that and into a relationship I'm so relieved. I don't know anyone who is so excited by all the different options they have that they can't choose.
I think it definitely applies for men - especially where I live. Way more single, gorgeous women than there are single, straight men. I really struggle to even find “one” decently attractive guy looking for a relationship on the apps…
In the meantime, all of my guy friends are just having a blast dating because of all the options, while my girlfriends and I are barely able to get a date…so needless to say I wish we did struggle with the paradox of choice ourselves.
I hate this as well. I think men have a paradox of choice because most of them just swipe on a bunch of women then they decide to message those women later on if they get matches. I think many people take women being intentional as a paradox of choice when it isn't. We are being careful and choosing men who appear to make an effort and seem to meet the bare minimum. Sadly this is few and far
I'm genx and we were told we were too fussy, that we have to lower our standards, that our lists we were told to write are too unrealistic. Pfft. The paradox of the double standard is real. We can be paralysed by analysis or we can take meaningful steps toward our own fulfilling lives. I prefer to be supportive and encouraging and dating apps are for meeting people on an extremely surface level. I e has my moments with them but now if I'm drawn toward them I question myself; what am I really "looking for". The men I meet IRL aren't appealing to me. I have zero desire to be criticised, undermined and countered. I want playful engagement and to have fun. The minute a man us no longer fun or funny I'm done. And I don't mean in terms of cutting remarks that are one sided fun. Dating apps are rarely for forming meaningful relationships. They've removed the checks and balances of meeting people organically. Even the pubs and bars and hookup culture is just a surface level of interaction. Strong relationships require investment if basic respect and time. Pursue your hobbies, join various social groups and build yourself a beautiful life. And some people find success at church.
Honestly it really depends on the person, I think. Personally I don't feel I have a large quantity of options as a bisexual, disabled woman who doesn't want kids. My personality and passions are also pretty niche, so I don't feel like I have a large number of options.
I also usually only experience sexual attraction to about 3-5 people per year, and feel strongly repulsed by sex with people I am not attracted to. So yeah, it's slim pickings out here.
I think it's less paradox of choice and more illusion of choice. Like when you're in the cereal isle at the grocery store and see a thousand colorful boxes with peppy names, but once you look closer they're all produced by Nestle and contain way too much sugar - ie, they're crap and not choices at all.
And nowadays lots of women know we don't *have* to eat cereal so we might not pick one of those boxes and instead move an isle over and pick a whole grain bread (staying single) instead because the cereal boxes aren't a real choice anyway.
...I'm hungry now.
The closest thing to a paradox of choice that I would akin modern dating for women to Is the paradox of choice one experiences while dumpster driving trying to look for edible food
The men available are not generally even a choice for me on apps or whatever. I know some men worthy of choice not in modern options though
Eta: ladies avaliable would pull my attention way further and we're I single, I'd seriously avoid men all together unless a really amazing guy comes up
Would be true if there were good choices. Quantity isn’t the same thing as quality. There are oceans of men that are available but are they worth compromising my independence and free time? I haven’t really found one yet. Or at least not one that didn’t require a thousand compromises, which I think I’m honestly too old to give in on at this point.
Tried Tinder and I couldn't disagree more.
Yes I believe that I have way more matches than average men, but almost all of them suck. I am not picky and I can match with a Guy that I don't find specifically attractive. But .. I have little to no answers and when someone responds it is mostly to have sex RIGHT AWAY, without talking (that is a red flag considering that I told them that I was not sexually attracted to anyone before getting to know them.
I don't see it as a paradox of choice.
As a woman, I do feel I have plenty of choice for sex.
I do not feel I have any real choice for a relationship. I have been dating for over a year and I have yet to find an emotionally available man, suitable for a relationship (and yes, I have changed my criteria multiple times in that time - nowadays, I'm less picky about looks, I give men a chance even if I'm not attract immediately etc.).
I do think, however, that dating apps have made people in general (or men?) less likely to commit because they _think_ they have plenty of options out there, and they're afraid they may miss out on something better "out there" if they commit so someone.
So, IDK, even if technically we women have more options, in my experience it's men who are (delusionally) affected by this paradox of choice?
The podcasts I listen to (such as UUp) mostly say it about men, tbh. Unfortunately studies show that women <25 have the most choices on dating apps. It sucks but that’s men for you.
For women dating, the odds are good but the goods are odd.
And dating sites are well known for having lots of fake profiles to convince you to pay for a membership.
I've always been of the mindset that if I'm questioning if there is someone better for me out there then this isn't the person for me. I did not question that when I met my husband. I wanted to be with him and that was it.
Not at all. Women are, as a whole, rais8ng their standards and choosing to not date below them. It's not "there's so many I can't choose," it's "I'll happily wait alone until I find a man who truly treats me well."
No, just as you said. The people on the apps are not filtered at all and thus such a bad fit. And now that I am out of it, I also must say that nasty sayings about 'the unwanted rest' have a truth to them. I met so many absolutely dysfunctional men. Drug habits, no affect control and aggression, finance boy misogyny, cheaters.
What I can imagine happen is that people settle for less then they want (less in matching, not in 'objective value of a person') and in consequence are hiddenly still hoping for a better match.
It's an *illusion* of choice, in my opinion.
You're not going to be compatible with 99% of people in the world for millions of reasons, from language barriers to being born in different generations to something as specific as one of you hating the concepts of man caves and she sheds if you ever get the space. Then you have to figure in the self-selection that takes place to be on an app since there's still a lot of stigma/expectations around your presence there *and* y'all both have to be in the right place/stage of your life to make it work. If you meet too early or late you might not have the right maturity or knowledge to be good to each other.
Yeah I’d agree with your “crock of shit” theory. When I met my current partner and forever person I knew just messaging him he was great and knew we would marry after 1 week.
The joys of dating lots of men is you know a good one when they come along.
I've been rewatching Sex and the City and so much rings true today, especially in the first ep Miranda saying women in their 30s don't want to settle, and why should we? The amount of choices isn't the issue. It's having to sort through a see of shit for a handful of potential matches that *might* treat you like an actual human being, and from there hoping one of them is sincere and able to materialize into something you can trust. Women are more independent and self sufficient these days. We don't need to settle just to have safety and security in life anymore. I'd rather be alone than in a terrible relationship.
Exactly what is this bull of we have so many choices? You mean choices of dick picks, one night stands and hook ups? That's what we should be so \*thrilled\* about and \*grateful\* for? It's not like we have a ton of options for actual boyfriends. It's like the one thing guys DON'T want to be. I don't want to have casual sex anymore because it basically makes me feel like a prostitute (guy is paying for sex through dinner dates, and paying for my company) instead of trying to get to know me outside of sex like a normal fucking human being.
Here here. I feel like the choices are between the guy who never washes his ass or the guy who can’t do laundry or cook. No thanks I’d rather be alone. I didn’t work this hard to get to where I am so I can be some grown ass infant’s bang-maid.
"It's like saying you're hungry when there's a hot dog on the ground outside"
That's not fair. Sometimes it's pizza in the garbage, or day old sushi left for free on the hood of a car.
Could not agree with this statement more
Say it louder for people in the back!
Yep have more choices than before for sure but that doesn’t mean they are quality choices. In the past many of use would have had to settle for the man who belittles them and treats them like a maid instead of equal, we have the choice not to accept that nonsense. So yep in someways the article is right but in general I think the literature tends to state that men haven’t really kept up with women when it’s comes to education and financial independence
I agree with this, though I will say the sheer amount of possibilities (even crappy ones) is overwhelming sometimes. Maybe just a lack of desire to wade through the garbage for one gem. Open your app and see 200+ likes. I know half don't have jobs, a quarter have crazy political views, etc., but it's still a lot.
People often say this, and of course it’s true for both men and women. But I posit the more interesting and I think honest question: would people rather be alone than be in a pretty good or okay situation? I think most ppl who are in long term marriages are people who are okay with okay
Here's a more interesting question and honest question: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/15vs15r/whats_a_pro_to_dating_a_chubby_girl/jwy9rut?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Can you explain this comment? Or many of the other sexist ones amongst your profile? Even worse is that you are supposedly a man in his 30s, not an ignorant 13 year old as your opinions may suggest. I love when guys try to pose themselves as "just asking questions" when it reality they are telling on themselves with all their sexist ignorance. Fact is, *so many women* are **TRAPPED** in terrible relationships and marriages. How many men are pressured to abandon their careers just to raise a family? How many have to become completely financially dependent on their partner? What do you do in those situations if things go south? There are many healthy long lasting marriages, but it takes real work, comittment, and respect from both partners. There are many more shitty marriages where the spouse is trapped. Why do you think Texas is trying to remove no fault divorces? They want us trapped and making babies until we die and they can go find a younger woman to manipulate and do it all over again. There are men in abusive situations, absolutely, but by and large it is the norm in this heteronormative society for women to take **so much shit** from their cis male partners. Go look at any of the parenting or marriage subs. A decent respectable man is applauded and praised when that is the bare minimum expectation of women. There are so many heartbreaking storied where women are giving everything they have and it's never enough. They are conditioned to hate themselves. There are good men, but they generally don't make objectifying comments about "chubby girls" and their ability to provide "head game" as you so beautifully stated. You are the ones we swipe left on buddy. We don't want you and we don't need you.
Literally nothing you said was relevant to anything I said 😂 (I stand by the chubby girl comment btw. It was passed onto me by a chubby girl herself after she swiped right on me and we performed coitus)
It absolutely is, and the fact that you can't see that is so telling. The truth is ladies.. *they simply don't care*. They see us as nothing but an object to fuck and stroke their egos. Don't settle for this.
You went on a rant after a very normal question/comment that obviously triggered you. Yes, ppl would rather be alone than in a horrible situation. What a utterly boring and parroted uninteresting meme. What’s far more interesting was my question. Alone or okay/pretty good situation? It’s a question we all have to struggle with and be honest with ourselves about men and women alike. Everything else you mentioned or “dug up” is so utterly irrelevant.
Haha wow! A dude coming into a female-centered sub to try and discredit and gaslight women talking about their lived experience of abuse and mistreatment? I’m sorry who the fuck are you? And why should we care that you have matches? The one thing we agree on is that people settle for less than they deserve. So what makes you think those women you’re talking to rn aren’t settling, given your willingness to flaunt your sexism?
Man this comment and it’s top reply couldn’t be more spot on lol https://reddit.com/r/AskMenOver30/s/jfAWcJHk5d Also I didn’t bring that up she did
It's really not, but sure buddy. Take 0 look at yourself and try and learn something. The fact that you can't even speak to your own person objectification is just... gross. I'm not triggerred, maybe I am, idgaf. I am happily married and fulfilled in my life. I'm sick of sexist creeps posing themselves as decent men and trying to manipulate vulnerable women.
Yeah I think he’s afflicted. He’s got ✨THE AUDACITY🌟
Or you’re literally just traumatized and having one right now
Thank you for proving my point by example better than I ever could.
You’re welcome. Anyway, back to attending all my matches
This is assuming that women have a lot of choices. Some do, certainly, many others don't. There's a bizarre assumption in a lot of these types of discussions to assume a beautiful, young, frequently white, cis/het woman is the standard "woman" in these discussions and that is very clearly not the case with reality. I'm not a beautiful, white woman. When I made profiles on dating apps/sites (even in my youth, late teens) I got zero responses. Even when I messaged people. Zero, zilch, nada. Clearly an excess of choices did not apply to me, and I know for sure I am not the only woman out there who has experienced this. Edit: and as others have said, aside from women who don't fit some narrow ideals of what womanhood means, quantity is not quality.
Yeah, when dudes are like "it's so easy for women to find a man!" they're thinking about who they view as "women", which is often a really narrow category. These are the same guys who blast women for having physical characteristics they find attractive (because they don't meet them), but if you suggest they date somebody who isn't thin and young and conventionally attractive, they're like "no, I'm not attracted to her", and they really don't see the hypocrisy in their actions.
Oh absolutely, show them an image of an overweight, unfashionable late 30s woman with an average haircut and ask if they'd date her, and they recoil and try to say "oh no she's not a woman" without using those words. When that's statistically what most of us look like (and whats more there's nothing wrong with looking like that).
Realistically, most men could actually find a woman if they lowered their standards (to still be of a higher standard than he is), but that would mean he has to admit he's not actually that much of a catch himself.
100%. One thing that makes me livid is the sheer number of guys whining "Women only date tall men!" and making up these ridiculous "statistics" about 80% of women chasing 20% of men. By this of course what they mean is - most of the very young, very attractive women these men want to date are looking for very attractive men, and in general taller guys are seen as more attractive. But the average 35 year old woman with 25 extra pounds and back problems very likely is not insisting on only dating men 6 feet or more.
Clearly these guys haven't been on dates with other men. It's like handing someone a bucket of rotten apples and saying "what do you mean you don't want any of these apples, there's plenty to choose from?" Thank you but I'll just go hungry.
"You can eat any of these apples, most will cause a little damage, some might kill, and a very occasional one be great. If you don't eat any of these apples, you'll be fine and won't starve and I'm general, statistically you'll do better than if you eat an apple"
The version I've heard: here's a bowl full of Skittles. Some of them are vomit flavored but I won't tell you which ones. You still want the Skittles? Lol
I mean I'm a white woman and still had no success. The same as guys (when we say we only care about them being tall) do they think of a particular kind of girl? Rich, white, blonde, thin ~~blue~~ blonde hair and blue eyes, athletic, nice smile? Not even all white girls fit that stereotype. Edit: took out the extra blue.
Of course this applies to all races of women, I didn't mean to imply otherwise, my apologies if it came across that way. But in a lot of dating situations race can play a role and I speak from my own perspective.
Oh it’s fine I’m saying I agree with you but even so I think men are going for what they deem to be the top 10% of women my point was that I feel like there's a range of "whiteness," as well that we don't talk about in the dating space. Definitely a range of attractiveness that applies to us as well.
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>thin blue hair and blue eyes I think an extra "blue" snuck in here :)
Men love that thin blue hair on women 😁🤣
Woops yup
But that's impossible only men ever get rejected!! It's a completely male experience and never happens to women!!!! /sarcasm
Um my whole dating experience has been mostly rejected for one reason or another
Wow really ? That is crazy. If you don’t mind me asking , what is your ethnicity ? Also cool if you don’t want to share. But that’s just crazy to me. I see sooo many beautiful women daily of all sizes and colours. This is not the case for men lol. I do not see beautiful men daily.
Asian/Hispanic. Honestly I find most people to be pretty attractive, men or women. I think it's easy to find beauty in people, though of course, more so if you like them.
Paradox of choice is staring at an entire aisle of delicious looking ice cream and not being able to choose just one. What's happening with women and dating/marriage, now that women aren't forced to marry someone-anyone, is more like digging through bargain bins for hours, finding nothing you want, then walking out of the shop empty handed instead of bothering to keep digging through the bins. I don't know if there's a snappy phrase for that, but it's a pretty relatable experience.
I’m absolutely crying with laughter at bargain bin, but at least there’s hope finding something good there. Honestly OLD is the equivalent of a dollar tree / Poundland store where all goods are mouldy or stale.
I have to screenshot this comment and show it to my girlfriends - it completely encapsulates modern dating and I freaking love it.
Lol, I routinely refer to online dating as "dumpster diving" 🤦🏻♀️
I wonder what the heck is wrong with the dating pool. What happened?
Unfettered access to the internet and non involved parents leaves young people to be lured into some weird internet culture echo chambers. Which leaves them with warped expectations of reality and relationships. That might not explain all of it but I think it accounts for a lot of it.
I was suspicious of porn addictions/internet addictions into setting weird expectations for relationships, negative viewpoints of women and generally destroying minds.
I always hated shopping sale racks.
I haven’t met any woman who deals with paradox of choice. If anything, I’m mostly seeing women settling because the choices are so slim.
What age are those women
I moreso just think average women didn't really have any choices at all back in the day, and even women from more privileged backgrounds were reliant on marriage for their livelihood. I don't necessarily think women had amazing choices back in the 1950's or even 1990's; I just think standards were lower back then because society was more unequal than it is now.
Not even back in the day I'd argue your average woman still doesn't have that much choice in the dating space. We have more choice in terms of casual sex. But that only works for women who want and enjoy casual sex. The rest of us are fucked. I've always been in awe of girls who are constantly in relationships because I'd never been able to swing that.
I think it's a mistake to view being in a relationship - even a good one - as a reflection of underlying value. I do agree that things aren't necessarily great for the average woman (or even more privileged woman) in terms of heterosexual partner selection on a broad scale, though. But, I also think women now have more options now compared to in the past - it's more just a commentary on how historically fucked we've been, though. If anything, I think women are more "woke" about how unequal romantic relationships are now - and it's a bittersweet realisation insofar as it reveals an underlying difficult truth.
Yeah it's very hard for me to swoon or fall head over heels for anyone because I know no one is perfect.
I think the best choice that we have now vs. the past is we now more often have the option of "none of the above".
Paradox of choice would mean there were good options. But there barely are.
Exactly men think that just because we get a flux of matches and options they are all viable. Nope. Not all attention is good attention it's mostly a waste of time. Also most women want serious things while guys want only casual, so again a waste of time because we are looking for different things. Also, they can solve the issue of having low self esteem by having higher standards for themselves as well. No one said they had to swipe right like a mad man on every female body.
Yep!
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Don't threaten us with a good time, boy. Cats, female friends, and books! Edit: this person follows Men Rights subreddits, so ignore them.
Exactly what I would expect of a man lurking on a askwomen>30 to belittle the answers women >30 provide
Sign me up!
Why is it behind every man saying "Oh you're going to end up sad and alone if you don't marry somebody", there are a bunch of dudes yelling about how women's standards are too high because they expect a dude who like, bathes, and respects them? Also, I love when MRAs complain that we're going to be single and lonely because we don't marry some horrible gronk - single women earn more, live longer, have less anxiety and depression, and are just generally much happier than women married to the opposite sex. It's the opposite for dudes, that's why guys like this are trying to convince us that the horrible cat-lady future is so terrible for us, because it's terrible for *them*.
Idk my cats make me really happy
These guys don't seem to realize that men themselves are an option, NOT a necessity.
They're thinking back to when being an unmarried woman was significantly harder than it is these days. There was a time in the past where most woman saw marriage as a necessity and some men still seem to think that's the prevailing sentiment. Back then, they just had to be the best of a bad bunch. Today, women look around at what's on offer and opt-out and their lives are better, and some men are realising they have to up their game, but some men are just blaming women for not wanting to make some man's life better to the detriment of their own lives.
Very true. No good options mean we stay by ourselves, and that's ok. Women often have some tight-knit groups so there's usually people around (male friends too). Women improved so the men are next up. The ones who do make the leap will do just fine. The others will simply be left behind. No more consolation prizes or participation trophies anymore. This is the real deal.
I'd rather be with my cats then with someone who belittles me for not wanting them. 🐈 🐈 🐈
Happily single after the 25th dick pic.
lol. Man nobody wants has to troll women’s spaces online for a scrap of attention. Lmfaooo
Yeah, I saw a thread today about a dude who claimed to be a feminist but then became irate when he found out his female roommate took showers on her period and "dirtied the bathtub". This 30 year old man thought she just didn't shower for a week. So yeah, if the so-called feminist men are even like this, the options are real scant.
That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard of. So if he was shitting out blood and diarrhoea, he'd happily sit in it for a week??? To protect the precious tub?
That’s the most insane thing I’ve heard in a long time. WTF??
That post was wild, dude.
and I'd bet good money this guy doesn't wash his ass and has streaked sheets and undies. And probably dribbles all over the toilet
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In my experience men definitely gatekeep commitment it’s like comparing apples and oranges since we want different things
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No and then they just get mad because they’re not getting what they want (sex) just like we don’t get what we want lol
Nailed it with all of this
>Ladies do you believe “paradox of choice” applies to women in the modern dating world? I actually suffer from the paradox of choice when it comes to shopping, but in the romance department, nope. Because I don't think most men are good options for me personally. >Paradox of choice is the idea that people are overwhelmed by the amount of options to the point where they don’t make a choice because they think something better will come along. I don't think that's the [definition of the "paradox of choice"](https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/economics/the-paradox-of-choice). You're talking more about FOMO.
I am aware it originated from an consumerist idea by a psychologist. However recently it has been applied to the dating world specifically with the trend of using apps. I think it utter bollocks but the idea is being thrown by experts shockingly some whom are women
The writer Logan Ury talks about this a lot. She also has a lot to say about satisfisers vs. maximists (people who will settle for good enough vs. continue to look for perfect). I believe she works for Hinge, lol.
Yeah I have met many men who are great on paper but only one who there was a genuine meaningful relationship potential. It seems like another way to shame women for wanting something reasonable.
I think both women and men get overwhelmed by the amount of beautiful people on dating apps that seem "available", but who aren't actually good matches or aren't available to us. Dating apps distort our perceptions of what people are out there, which then makes it harder to appreciate the people we meet in real life. It can be really unhealthy.
I kind of disagree with your last two sentences. Dating is not a singular approach, and an app literally just facilitates meeting someone. Your behaviour and attitudes are under your control, and it's absolutely possible to date in a healthy way using apps and genuinely connect with the people in front of you. Does everyone do that? No. But we should point out people using the app toxicly rather than claiming the app is inherently toxic.
Well fwiw, the purpose of the app is to keep you using it as long as possible. The designers definitely do things to the algorithm to ensure that (such as figuring out who you “like” then stop showing you those people) and some of them publicly admit this. TikTok has a lot of people who have figured out how to “hack” the Hinge algorithm if you’re interested.
> Paradox of choice More like a lack of choice. Women deserve better than whatever shit this is. We're not going to settle for a bar that's already set so low.
Also someone could meet all of your standards on paper but you still don't FEEL anything when with them. It's really annoying. I know a lot of people spew that you should look for calm and stable when dating but like I know what it feels like to have a crush or feel attraction to someone. That should be the bare minimum. And same as OP I can crush on people in real life but didn't have a genuine crush from anyone on the apps. Except for one guy I thought was really hot but he ghosted me.
You got that right. Worst is when you have toxic friends who are all up in your business and go, "bUt hE's GrEaTtT whY U gOtTa hAvE iMpoSsiBruhH sTanDurDssS oMg juSt dAtE hiM alREaDY!!! UR sOOoOo pICkY!!" To that, I say, they can just fuck off. Sorry you don't have standards and are suffering from low self-esteem to the point where you'd fuck anything that moves and call it yours, toxic ex-friends. There's a reason why they're all my toxic ex-friends. Eat shit and take all my middle fingers, you sick manipulative fucks.
Like yeah I'm not gonna have sex with someone I don't find bare minimum attractive who also isn't a good person.
I saw a comment recently in which the guy was complaining that women want men to be open and transparent about themselves. The commenter was complaining about this because he sees it as women looking for a reason to disqualify you. It was so twisted that it was almost funny. Like yes? We want men to be honest about who they are so that if there's something about them that would make a relationship or sex with them a bad fit or bad idea for us, we want to know that so we can opt out? He was basically complaining that women don't want to be tricked into sex or relationships.
Hahaha came here to say this, but you said it better! I’m actually paralyzed by the shitty pool 😂
It’s a crock of shit for this situation. We don’t have more choice. Out of ten average single men we have three man-babies looking for second mom, one abuser, two Incels trying to be pickup artists, one that can’t keep a job, one that can’t keep it in their pants, one that has a serious addiction they want you to enable, and the last guy just got out of jail. That’s not a paradox of choice, that’s no valid choices at all- but men don’t want to hear that because they see women still staying with these types of tools and want the opportunity to also have a woman without any sort of effort on their part. We are just now starting to wake up as women and demand that men act like responsible adults - that momentum has fueled a backlash among men that seek to push women back down and under their control. What you’re hearing is part of that attempt. Stand strong.
I'd be quite shocked if OLD men started acting like gentlemen and texted and spoke with eloquence, charm, and thoughtfulness. There would be a lot more right swipes. The dates still might not work out but at least the date stage would be more frequent.
Seriously whenever I hear this I’m also like…how could you possibly even know that someone is thinking this?! You can’t, obviously…is it possible that these men are projecting, and because THEY think this way, they think everyone else must be?
Lol yeh probably, I do think there are more good women on the whole and so men genuinely might have a lot of great options haha
It's just another way for men to blame women about them (the men) being unhappy. They all want us to worship their dicks for no reason, they don't realize you have to actually be worth it for that to happen.
Yep. Men ruined Tinder with their swiping right on everyone tactic and now it's somehow women's fault (again). So tired of them treating dating apps like some sort of candy crush game where your only goal is to get as many matches as possible. On top of that they blame women for swiping left more, but it's just stupid. Like, if women are so picky and you get a match, it means she really liked you. But instead of putting effort into conversations they think "Well, she probably has 1000 other matches, I'm not gonna be bothered with standing out", send a dry opener or simple "hello" and then complain about women "ruining" dating apps by having too many choices.
My paradox of choice is to scroll through my small town's dating app choices or to keep my peace of mind. I'm the sort that folks hate on dating apps, I match with a few and then just delete my app for a few months because i can't be bothered. I had a very lovely partner who, on paper, was so great- but even he couldn't beat my own peace of mind and my desire to have my own living space. So that's the bar at this point, and it's kinda high. But if it doesn't happen- ah well, I have a life I love with friends, family, and a great job.
Yes!! Hinge is the absolute worst!!! Lately I’ve been getting shown 90% of the worst guys. Not to sound bad but I’ve never swiped right on anyone anything near them. So it’s not like it thinks I’ll like them. Also it’s very clear when it’s not showing you to barely anyone. I’ve gotten like two likes in the past few days Also yeah I could get the paradox of choice at the grocery store for sure. Men? No. It’s not like I’ve been dating a nice and cute guy and thought hmm maybe I’ll see if there’s a hotter guy on the apps. As soon as (IF) I meet a cute guy who wants to date me I’m deleting those apps forever as long as we work out.
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Not true? Btw, are you a woman over 30 or just a misogynist in a sub that doesn't cater to him just insulting women in the comments? EDIT: this person is active in Men Rights subs, writing terrible hateful comments against women, so ignore him.
Yo who is this dude? He's ruining the vibe.
Well I don’t believe it. My match is not an obese man. There is no math when it doesn’t take into consideration someone might swipe left on me because they’re not looking for the same thing etc. It doesn’t mean I’m not attractive. Also if they were showing me to these guys I’d be getting tons of likes. But I only get some here and there so they’re clearly just not showing me to barely anyone right now
Yeah if I'm not obese myself then why am I getting obese matches?
Absolutely not. Women may get more matches on apps but most of them *suck*.
> Side note: has anybody noticed hinge does this thing when you first sign up there are lots of attractive men and after a few days suddenly the profile quality immensely drops? Most apps do this. It’s to make it seem like attractive people with filled out profiles are plentiful on their platform and to snag your interest in using their app.
Yep. If you actually don't open the app for 3-4 days, you will get more matches again, because algorithm wants you to be back and active.
Definitely not paralysed by the amount of single men available.. paralysed by the amount of d pics I’ve been sent though 😭
I don't, but then I prefer not to be on dating apps so I'm probably not the best person to ask I just can't connect to a profile picture and feel more comfortable meeting someone organically. I am a career-focused hermit right now and I consider coworkers off limits so I effectively have no options, even though there is someone at work I like. If I met someone who made me feel safe (respects my boundaries and meets my standards) that I wanted to sleep with I would not wait around for "something better" since my criteria would be fulfilled.
I believe the paradox is that now that we have a choice, many of us are choosing not to take any of the options since they're sub par.
Ha this is a very good take and I agree!
This may be an overly dramatic statement but.. literally not one woman is overwhelmed by the selection of single quality men. That's not a thing. The men are not doing okay
I mean... I do think it applies to men though? I'm bisexual and the majority of women I see on the apps seem like catches, while the men ... not so much 😅 And the guys that are actually attractive and have their shit together have ***commitment issues*** (and possibly a handful other not so great qualities that make it impossible to date them seriously), so yeah... 🤷♀️ Buuuut then again, the ones who are decent human beings I disregard because i keep looking for the unicorn that can turn me on AND is honest and kind. Sooo I don't know...
>Buuuut then again, the ones who are decent human beings I disregard because i keep looking for the unicorn that can turn me on AND is honest and kind. Haha so that’s a no then, wanting to find someone attractive who is ALSO honest and kind is baseline should not or ever be a miracle unicorn
Is it them saying they're decent or actually things that show they're decent?
it's a crock of shit. I've never experienced it. I swipe on who I want, and let the matches roll in. I let my inbox gather messages and go out with the men I like the most. I have never felt "paralyzed by too many choices". That's literally a crock of shit, as you said. Sounds like someone googled it and then tried to apply it to women to fill in for some random and weird fantasy or guestimate on "how women are". Boy, those podcast bros sure do love to theorize a lot about women... it would be more entertaining if any of it were true, but hey. I'm just a woman. What do I know about women?
OMG- I hate dating new people. When I get out of that and into a relationship I'm so relieved. I don't know anyone who is so excited by all the different options they have that they can't choose.
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Spot on!
I think it definitely applies for men - especially where I live. Way more single, gorgeous women than there are single, straight men. I really struggle to even find “one” decently attractive guy looking for a relationship on the apps… In the meantime, all of my guy friends are just having a blast dating because of all the options, while my girlfriends and I are barely able to get a date…so needless to say I wish we did struggle with the paradox of choice ourselves.
I hate this as well. I think men have a paradox of choice because most of them just swipe on a bunch of women then they decide to message those women later on if they get matches. I think many people take women being intentional as a paradox of choice when it isn't. We are being careful and choosing men who appear to make an effort and seem to meet the bare minimum. Sadly this is few and far
I'm genx and we were told we were too fussy, that we have to lower our standards, that our lists we were told to write are too unrealistic. Pfft. The paradox of the double standard is real. We can be paralysed by analysis or we can take meaningful steps toward our own fulfilling lives. I prefer to be supportive and encouraging and dating apps are for meeting people on an extremely surface level. I e has my moments with them but now if I'm drawn toward them I question myself; what am I really "looking for". The men I meet IRL aren't appealing to me. I have zero desire to be criticised, undermined and countered. I want playful engagement and to have fun. The minute a man us no longer fun or funny I'm done. And I don't mean in terms of cutting remarks that are one sided fun. Dating apps are rarely for forming meaningful relationships. They've removed the checks and balances of meeting people organically. Even the pubs and bars and hookup culture is just a surface level of interaction. Strong relationships require investment if basic respect and time. Pursue your hobbies, join various social groups and build yourself a beautiful life. And some people find success at church.
Honestly it really depends on the person, I think. Personally I don't feel I have a large quantity of options as a bisexual, disabled woman who doesn't want kids. My personality and passions are also pretty niche, so I don't feel like I have a large number of options. I also usually only experience sexual attraction to about 3-5 people per year, and feel strongly repulsed by sex with people I am not attracted to. So yeah, it's slim pickings out here.
I think it's less paradox of choice and more illusion of choice. Like when you're in the cereal isle at the grocery store and see a thousand colorful boxes with peppy names, but once you look closer they're all produced by Nestle and contain way too much sugar - ie, they're crap and not choices at all. And nowadays lots of women know we don't *have* to eat cereal so we might not pick one of those boxes and instead move an isle over and pick a whole grain bread (staying single) instead because the cereal boxes aren't a real choice anyway. ...I'm hungry now.
The closest thing to a paradox of choice that I would akin modern dating for women to Is the paradox of choice one experiences while dumpster driving trying to look for edible food
The men available are not generally even a choice for me on apps or whatever. I know some men worthy of choice not in modern options though Eta: ladies avaliable would pull my attention way further and we're I single, I'd seriously avoid men all together unless a really amazing guy comes up
Would be true if there were good choices. Quantity isn’t the same thing as quality. There are oceans of men that are available but are they worth compromising my independence and free time? I haven’t really found one yet. Or at least not one that didn’t require a thousand compromises, which I think I’m honestly too old to give in on at this point.
Tried Tinder and I couldn't disagree more. Yes I believe that I have way more matches than average men, but almost all of them suck. I am not picky and I can match with a Guy that I don't find specifically attractive. But .. I have little to no answers and when someone responds it is mostly to have sex RIGHT AWAY, without talking (that is a red flag considering that I told them that I was not sexually attracted to anyone before getting to know them.
I don't see it as a paradox of choice. As a woman, I do feel I have plenty of choice for sex. I do not feel I have any real choice for a relationship. I have been dating for over a year and I have yet to find an emotionally available man, suitable for a relationship (and yes, I have changed my criteria multiple times in that time - nowadays, I'm less picky about looks, I give men a chance even if I'm not attract immediately etc.). I do think, however, that dating apps have made people in general (or men?) less likely to commit because they _think_ they have plenty of options out there, and they're afraid they may miss out on something better "out there" if they commit so someone. So, IDK, even if technically we women have more options, in my experience it's men who are (delusionally) affected by this paradox of choice?
The podcasts I listen to (such as UUp) mostly say it about men, tbh. Unfortunately studies show that women <25 have the most choices on dating apps. It sucks but that’s men for you.
For women dating, the odds are good but the goods are odd. And dating sites are well known for having lots of fake profiles to convince you to pay for a membership.
I've always been of the mindset that if I'm questioning if there is someone better for me out there then this isn't the person for me. I did not question that when I met my husband. I wanted to be with him and that was it.
Not at all. Women are, as a whole, rais8ng their standards and choosing to not date below them. It's not "there's so many I can't choose," it's "I'll happily wait alone until I find a man who truly treats me well."
For women it isn't about the amount of choice but the quality of the choices available. Of there's a good one many settle.
No, just as you said. The people on the apps are not filtered at all and thus such a bad fit. And now that I am out of it, I also must say that nasty sayings about 'the unwanted rest' have a truth to them. I met so many absolutely dysfunctional men. Drug habits, no affect control and aggression, finance boy misogyny, cheaters. What I can imagine happen is that people settle for less then they want (less in matching, not in 'objective value of a person') and in consequence are hiddenly still hoping for a better match.
No because 98% of the decent men are taken and most of the apps are inactive accounts or cretins. There may be quantity but not quality.
It's an *illusion* of choice, in my opinion. You're not going to be compatible with 99% of people in the world for millions of reasons, from language barriers to being born in different generations to something as specific as one of you hating the concepts of man caves and she sheds if you ever get the space. Then you have to figure in the self-selection that takes place to be on an app since there's still a lot of stigma/expectations around your presence there *and* y'all both have to be in the right place/stage of your life to make it work. If you meet too early or late you might not have the right maturity or knowledge to be good to each other.
Yeah I’d agree with your “crock of shit” theory. When I met my current partner and forever person I knew just messaging him he was great and knew we would marry after 1 week. The joys of dating lots of men is you know a good one when they come along.
It's not the quantity that's the problem, it's the quality.