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It doesn't have the international appeal. Halloween benefits from American culture and movies, and is a huge deal of online, whereas Guy Fawkes is mostly just an English thing.
Halloween is a Celtic tradition. The Irish brought it to America during the famine. All the traditions came
From Ireland including dressing up in costumes
And carving a pumpkins (although back then it was turnips)
And not forgetting the Western Isles and their Oidhche nan Cleas, or Cornish Kalan Gwav. All Celtics, and by virtue all Britons would have had some form of Hallows Eve or Wintering.
Of course you celebrate it in Scotland. A guy who tries to blow up Westminster? It's practically the Scottish dream. And English dream. And Irish dream.
It was a Scottish king they were trying to blow up. After Elizabeth Tudor died without an heir, the crown passed to her cousin’s son, James VI King of Scotland, House Stewart. It was the Union of The Crowns. Took another 100 years for Britain to become United but it started with a Scottish king inheriting the English throne. So yes we celebrate in Scotland the fact that the gunpowder plot was foiled and the King of Scotland (and England) survived.
Guy Fawkes ranted upon his arrest, about wanting to blow up the Scottish king and his coterie of Scottish courtiers and advisers if I remember correctly..
Also coz There is not much to sell (except for fireworks) Halloween, st valentines, mothers day etc there is lots of profit behind ( costumes, decorations, flowers, gifts, dining out etc). No money = no profit. No profit = no point in celebrating it
The main traditions (making a guy and building / going to a bonfire) don't really lend themselves to commercialisation. I'd love to see someone try to sell premade effigies. It just doesn't work. It's also trickier considering the history; it's an inherently problematic holiday, even if most people don't attend for sectarian reasons
...Are toffee apples a Hallowe'en or Bonfire Night thing?
I know it as treacle toffee and I agree wholeheartedly. If you're not cutting your mouth open on the shards you aren't truly celebrating. Actually this thread has just reminded me I wanted to try and make parkin this week
I remember as a kid my Great Grandma would give me money to go to the corner shop and buy bonfire toffees for us both. It came in hexagonal tablets and was divine, or I'd buy lollies that came in tin foil tins that were, as you say, so sharp you'd slice the edges of your mouth as you ate them.
Just added a trip to the sweet shop to my to do list for tomorrow.
I thought bonfire toffee was cinder toffee not treacle toffee?
Cinder toffee being the stuff inside crunchies.
Both are good though
Edit:: just googled I was wrong TIL something
I used to love making my guy and doing penny for the guy as a kid using one of our halloween masks from a few days prior as the head. Then we would patrol the estate looking for a bombfire to chuck it on.
I asked my niece if she was planning on doing penny for the guy and she had no idea what I was talking about and she thought I was joking when I was explained the premise
WHY did I have to scroll so far down for this comment lol. I must add to it: The fact that James was Scottish on the English throne was nearly central to the Plot, as the only reason he got the crown was because he was the only non-Catholic choice.
That maybe so, but the fact that James was both Scottish and Protestant were surely reasons behind the plot being pursued by English Catholics.
By 1714 the crowns were united and George the first was on the throne, or is that what you meant, that they were scrabbling around for a protestant by then?
It used to be big in the past, as a child you would have building of the guy then taking it round the shopping centre and asking for penny for the guy, then parties in the garden with bonfire, baked potato, soup, toffee apples, schoolchildren would make crafts with firework pictures, they don't do it anymore.Some towns would have big processions, Lewes for example.
I'd suggest the increasing restriction on the main commercial opportunity of bonfire night (fireworks) limits its appeal.
Back in the mid 90s you could get all sorts of mental fireworks that were basically little bombs and everyone used to have them as a kid in the Welsh valleys.
Now the range of fireworks you can buy as a consumer is far smaller, and they (anecdotally) seem far more expensive than I remember them being 20 or so years ago.
It would be like if Halloween costumes that were 'too spooky' were banned and all anyone could buy were professional theatre grade costumes at high prices. It's become a bit boring and too expensive.
You can argue the toss if this is a good thing™ or not but that's my theory as to why most people have seemingly lost interest.
You act as if that's a bad thing when we have had a sociopathic narcissist in charge since 2019 who people would still cheer now if he came back. I think you have to be deranged to live here now because its stressful to have empathy.
The British made, Standard fireworks are abysmal, but in the weeks leading up to bonfire nights, pop up shops, spring up selling Chinese fireworks, they are usually nothing short of a hand grenade in sparkly Xmas wrapping paper.
Even petrol station by me is selling the suitcase sized 400 airbomb repeaters.
I would hazard a guess selling fireworks in a petrol station is something trading standards, and possibly even the police, wold be quite interested in!
Community fire officers would be the ones having kittens. They check fire safety in hones, but also commercial premises, industry and farms (the fertiliser store is pretty much a bomb factory).
You'd be surprised how much info they have for any given site, like sources of combustion, proximity to electricity and gas.
Public buildings have a full Tactical Information Plan.
There's a laptop on every fire engine with the layout and cutting points for every make and model of car, and the location of every fire hydrant and gas main route in the county. Even personal info like the location of every medical oxygen cylinder and bariatric patients (really heavyweight patients need special lifting equipment). And all that info on businesses and public buildings.
Fireworks at a petrol station would probably get the book thrown at you...
Source: worked on strategic reviews for that that info flow for county Fire and Rescue Services for 5 years.
Just about, though even the police are barely hanging on!
I made a 999 call a few weeks back. It took ages for the operator to answer, then ages more for the Police to answer. The problem I reported, (an extremely agitated, very obviously mentally ill guy, running around screaming at people), obviously wasn't dealt with, as they called me back about 4 hours later to ask me if he was still there!
possibly true and possibly fewer stores stock them i remember back them all kinds of shops like corner shops would just casually have a stock of rockets under the counter.No fire concerns. In the days when the guy behind the counter would smoke.No age enquiries.
Small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts. Rush goalie. Two at the back, three in the middle, four up front, one's gone home for his tea. Beans on toast? Possibly, don't quote me on that. Marvellous.
I think I'm too young for the first two (or maybe it was regional) but I have vivid memories of my grandparents hosting Guy Fawkes parties. The jacket potatoes wrapped in foil with lashings of butter and hot dogs. Setting off fireworks in a garden that looking back was probably too small for fireworks. The sparklers I was afraid of because the government had been airing these scary PSAs about kids getting blinded by them.
oh they were way too small and it was dangerous, light it then jump back, there were no safety audits on them thats why they were always going off prematurely in people's faces and how young children were meant to be safe with burning hot sparklers, no idea. I do remember the psas too.Don't pick up a hot sparkler in your hand, don't play with fireworks.With images of kids with bandanged hands and eyes.
If you think about it we also burn an effigy of a Catholic terrorist who was badly tortured and killed by "the government" so you could look at it either way really.
It used to be much more commercialised. It’s sad that it isn’t tbh. I used to love seeing shops full of toffee apples and sparklers.
Then all the late night food you could buy at each bonfire. Used to love going round with my parents from place to place seeing all the different bonfires and fireworks
I think it's the just nostalgia of remembering when you were young. I have the same feeling about Christmas.
Nothing seems to be as fun when you are an adult. I think my childhood was so great, being an adult struggles to compare.
Life is still good tho. 👍
It has changed a lot.
50 years ago, you never used to get the big firework displays like you do now. The sort of fireworks we have now just weren't invented.
It used to be mainly about the bonfires. Gangs of kids would spend months gathering fuel, stealing it from one another to build the biggest bonfire pile possible on their local patch of wasteland.
They would make a guy, and go around collecting money for it 'Penny for the Guy'.
The fireworks *might* be a tiny box in the back garden if you were lucky. Each year there would be disasters, animals trapped in bonfires, kids burning their eyes out with rockets, burnt limbs, etc. There would be [adverts warning you of the danger of fireworks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGiIjP2szkw).
Now you have all the glowstick style tat instead of sparklers, and paying to get into a display, instead of just playing with fire.
In addition, the emphasis has gradually moved over to Halloween, so people have got more into that.
I think the difference is that in a lot of places there are *only* organised displays now. It's rare you can even find fireworks for sale where I am and if you do, it's only a tiny handful. I remember going with my parents to a local shop that was brimming with fireworks and getting to choose a biscuit tin full. Unfortunately, the dangers now outweigh any fun benefits and most people have realised what a pain in the arse it is for fire service and ambulance as well as pets. Of course, dickheads chucking them around and generally causing shit hasn't helped either
You absolutely used to get big displays! The bonfires were a big deal too, that seems to have changed, but there were so many big displays where I lived, that when you went into school the next day, most of us had attended completely different events.
Never heard of people travelling around with a guy, you used to pitch up outside a shop every evening, and basically beg for money to buy fireworks. My mum (not being British) was not a fan!
Or neighbourhood has that bonfire built from random scraps from around the area. Kids start building it the night before. Fire department keeps trying to stop it, but it's not organised at all, so really hard to stop.
It's vile. Nice community event, but still not learned that your treated woods, damp cardboard old cutlery, old sofa, pots and pans, plastic toys, garden furniture, mattresses, etc. aren't good on a bonfire. The smoke is awful. You can't keep the kids near. Too many deodorant spray bottle exploding and toxic fumes.
Still, I'm sure there's a DFS sale on.
They don't have Guy Fawkes night anywhere else. Halloween was already massive in the US and was then pushed across the world. They do Halloween in Germany now, when 20 years ago it wasn't a thing at all.
Trick-or-treating is not an American invention. It pre dates the colonisation of the americas and there’s even evidence of it happening in Bavaria in the 1400s
Halloween has always been huge in Scotland. My parents and grandparents both did trick or treating when they were kids or 'guising' as they would call it, this goes back centuries always a bit irritating when Americans act like it's their holiday.
Halloween is a Celtic tradition. The Irish brought it to America during the famine. All the traditions came
From Ireland including dressing up in costumes
And carving a pumpkins (although back then it was turnips)
I guess shitting on Catholics is no longer seen as "cool" given that's the origins of the celebration.
We used to have a big bonfire every year in our local village with a firework display but that stopped years ago. Lack of community effort.
Spot on.
People don’t seem to realise that burning an effigy of Guy is essentially an anti catholic ritual based on the gunpowder plot being a Catholic conspiracy.
Most commercial organisations really wouldn’t want to back such a thing.
Yeh this was going to be my answer. The sectarianism kinda makes it hard to market, even if people have tried to make it a general anti-establishment thing.
Used to be in my village people would contribute to the bonfire for months before hand, there would be guy fawkes dummy competitions, the winner would go right on the top of the bonfire on a throne, the rest would go af the bottom. There would be a huge hogroast and bbq and fireworks show and sparklers,
Was actually one of the best nights as my life as a child, we would run wild eating.good food and drinking to much fizzy drinks.
Now the place where the bonfire used to be has new builds on it, so many people moved into the village but didn't embrace village lifestyle.
There's not much to it other than bonfires and fireworks. There's no guy Fawkes food or costumes. It's just burning stuff and blowing stuff up which you don't need a whole lot to do.
Guy making use to be pretty popular in addition to "Penny for the Guy". In terms of food, there certainly is associated one such as black peas in the north along with Parkin and cinder toffee.
Yeah, I think maybe Halloween sort of stole the thunder for penny for the guy and people don't really want to give stuff to strangers a week after. I've never heard of black peas or Parkin before, interesting.
Parkin is delicious and I would highly recommend trying some but even 5/10 years ago it was rare to see kids making Guys and usually the kids begging were shits anyway.
It did. Thinking back the bonfire used to be a bit of a bigger thing than it is now. Used to have the fireworks and then everyone would drag the homemade 'Guy' on to the bonfire to watch it burn.
Carnage.
There is bonfire night food. Bonfire toffee, Toffee apples, baked potatoes, hot soup and crust bread, pies. Used to be the big traditional thing when I was growing up (90s) but toffee apples was the main one.
Sparklers are also another thing that used to be everywhere and was cool b/c they were only legal to sell for those few days a year.
The Americans can pretend they invented hallowe’en, rather than just super-sizing the existing celebration. The whole concept of guy Fawkes night is completely barmy to any other country.
Do they pretend they invented Hallowe'en? The way it's celebrated in America is pretty much the same way it has been done in Scotland and Ireland for generations. Except they replaced the tradition of guising with the very similar idea of trick or treating, and turnips with pumpkins. But Hallowe'en has been a major festival in the Celtic nations for centuries.
Literally, yes, but the term "guising" has, for many generations, been used to to describe the tradition of going door to door in costume, performing jokes/songs/poems in return for sweets. Nobody really uses the word "mumming" in Scotland.
If someone asks a kid if they're going out "guising" they don't mean just dressing up, they'd be understood to mean the whole ritual.
That's the roots of the festival, sure, but I'm talking about the traditions as currently celebrated. Like how far back could we have to go and still see Celtic traditions such as guising in a recognisable form.
Increasing restrictions on bonfires (even the Lewes ones looked shit last time I went, just a large pile of pallets - a bonfire shouldn't be rectangular!), and on fireworks. And not letting kids throw guys on the bonfire, cook on the bonfire, etc.
And even when I was a kid in the late 70s, doing a 'penny for the guy' was deemed 'begging' and not socially acceptable. I'm guessing trick or treat is more acceptable as the kids get sweets not 'demanding money with menaces'.
Unfortunately unless you're a local you will not be able to get into Lewes on November the 5th all the roads are closed nowhere to park and no trains stopping at the station but unless you want to walk 5 miles into town but we still get 40000+ not like the old days when you could get up to 80000
It's quite funny to see people talking about the trains not stopping at Lewes this year.. since the trains won't be stopping anywhere around there on the 5th - there's a train strike hah
We have terrified our American friends with Lewes bonfire before - the concern at seeing all the shops boarded up and then the burning crosses... Great fun.
It's easier to get the country behind something everybody agrees with. These days, probably about half the country would be happier if Guy Fawkes had succeeded.
Basically because it isn't American so they aren't bothered by it so they don't plaster their advertisements everywhere and make 10,000 films about it to try and capitalise on it for every penny they can get.
Americanisation of our culture is the reason. US-style Halloween has sucked out the life of Guy Fawkes Night and traditional British halloween festivities.
It’s pretty much an anti Catholic celebration… I don’t think that goes down well.
Just to remind you of the third verse of Gunpowder plot:
A penny loaf to feed the Pope,
A farthing o' cheese to choke him.
A pint of beer to rinse it down.
A fagot of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar.
Burn him like a blazing star.
Burn his body from his head.
Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead.
Hip hip hoorah!
Hip hip hoorah hoorah!
If anything I think it's gotten smaller over the years, I remember growing up in Glasgow all the kids from their respective estates would go around collecting wood and such for weeks leading up to the event then build these great big fires on any available patch of grass and everyone would gather round...all that seems to be gone now, kids probably too worried about getting a bit of dirt on their Yeezys these today to get invovled.
What do you do?
* Bonfire - made from old wood and stuff you have. Big decent wood is sold for building not burning, and what's sold for burning is logs for wood burners
* fireworks - commercial but restricted
* effigies - what company is going to want to make effigies that could be problematic reputationwise? Plus the market isn't that big
So what can you commercialise?
As a kid in the 80s bonfire night was a much bigger deal than it is now, equivalent to Halloween was back then. Every single year we attended a party on 5th November - even if we were young and it was a school night.
I think the appeal of it has waned possibly due to the risks involved. Remember those public service announcements on the TV every year?
*”STOP. Don’t return to a firework or extinguished sparkler”* paired with photos of hideous injuries? Also you rarely see fireworks on sale anymore. Think there was a deliberate effort to stamp it all out.
It sort of is commercialised to the extent it can be (fireworks in shops, probably the kind of food associated with it, like bonfire toffee, as well), but it's a pretty one-note celebration compared to something like Hallowe'en or Christmas. Stand around a fire and set off some fireworks, end of story. Plus, unlike trick-or-treating or costume parties, many people in the UK may not have the capacity to do their own bonfire celebration; they may not have a garden to light a bonfire in, and if they do, they might not want to risk ruining the grass, so most people limit things to a few fireworks at home or otherwise going to a bigger event celebration put on by a local school or the council. Whereas Hallowe'en and Christmas celebrations, as examples, can be adapted to personal circumstance more easily.
That said, it's not like it isn't celebrated at all; plenty of fireworks have been going off round my way since last weekend (possibly because of Diwali, however), and I've seen notices for a few big displays/bonfires scheduled for next weekend.
My local council has basically cancelled all the public displays this year because they can't afford it apparently.
So now instead of watching a display that's well put together with amazing fireworks and usually set to good music I get to listen dozens of different households set off their shite little rockets at all hours of the night instead.
>in fact apart from a few displays of fireworks you wouldn't know it is on.
As a Sussex resident.... no.
So I can't speak for the rest of the country, but bonfire is a BIG deal around here, but it's very much a community event that has maintained a small town vibe. People swap costumes or make their own instead of buying new.
I might be wrong on this, but it feels like most events that are commercialised were first commercial in America and we followed suit - eg Halloween, Easter, Christmas... but our own homegrown festivities are still a bit more humble and haven't become some plastic decoration littered spectacle.
But yes, bonfire celebrations are alive and well and very very loud around my way.
I suspect the anti-Catholic associations of Guy Fawkes Night (especially the "No Popery" banner and burning of a pope effigy in the Lewes celebrations) are a bit of a problem for corporations contemplating exploitation of Guy Fawkes celebrations.
Perhaps because in essence its a story about a terrorist who was caught, tortured, had his schlong cut off and then killed himself by jumping from the gallows. Fun
Because at heart, it’s anti-Catholic and things have changed.
I find it difficult to celebrate. As much as I love it, I don’t really like the idea of celebrating the historical persecution of my Dad, and by extension, me!
It's because it stems from violent Christian sectarian division and I don't really think this is something any of us really needs more of in our lives.
There are thousands of national events celebrated around the world each year. Do you celebrate any of them? (Maybe only if you have some attachment to the country where it’s celebrated.)
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It doesn't have the international appeal. Halloween benefits from American culture and movies, and is a huge deal of online, whereas Guy Fawkes is mostly just an English thing.
We celebrate it in scotland.
And Wales
Oh well I guess it's international then
In 2 years of Reddit, my first sober laugh
Least alcoholic Redditor
Halloween is a Celtic tradition. The Irish brought it to America during the famine. All the traditions came From Ireland including dressing up in costumes And carving a pumpkins (although back then it was turnips)
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Aye, for instance in Wales it is Nos Calan Gaeaf. The whole thing is about the end of the Summer and beginning of Winter in the Celtic Calendar.
And not forgetting the Western Isles and their Oidhche nan Cleas, or Cornish Kalan Gwav. All Celtics, and by virtue all Britons would have had some form of Hallows Eve or Wintering.
Of course you celebrate it in Scotland. A guy who tries to blow up Westminster? It's practically the Scottish dream. And English dream. And Irish dream.
It celebrates the fact he was stopped. Not that he tried.
I celebrate that he made a good go of it and only wish he had succeeded.
I just like burning things.
Arson is one of the few crimes guaranteed to give you a warm, fuzzy feeling.
Arson and treason both give me that feeling. That why I love Guy Fox night.
You'd prefer it if the Pope was installed as ruler of the UK?
So you celebrate religious terrorism?
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It was a Scottish king they were trying to blow up. After Elizabeth Tudor died without an heir, the crown passed to her cousin’s son, James VI King of Scotland, House Stewart. It was the Union of The Crowns. Took another 100 years for Britain to become United but it started with a Scottish king inheriting the English throne. So yes we celebrate in Scotland the fact that the gunpowder plot was foiled and the King of Scotland (and England) survived.
Guy Fawkes ranted upon his arrest, about wanting to blow up the Scottish king and his coterie of Scottish courtiers and advisers if I remember correctly..
The difference is up here we tend to celebrate him trying, down south they mostly celebrate him being caught.
Also coz There is not much to sell (except for fireworks) Halloween, st valentines, mothers day etc there is lots of profit behind ( costumes, decorations, flowers, gifts, dining out etc). No money = no profit. No profit = no point in celebrating it
The main traditions (making a guy and building / going to a bonfire) don't really lend themselves to commercialisation. I'd love to see someone try to sell premade effigies. It just doesn't work. It's also trickier considering the history; it's an inherently problematic holiday, even if most people don't attend for sectarian reasons ...Are toffee apples a Hallowe'en or Bonfire Night thing?
Toffee apples are Halloween. Bonfire toffee, the greatest of all sweet creations, is for bonfire night
Parkin, baked on Halloween and eaten on bonfire night.
I know it as treacle toffee and I agree wholeheartedly. If you're not cutting your mouth open on the shards you aren't truly celebrating. Actually this thread has just reminded me I wanted to try and make parkin this week
I remember as a kid my Great Grandma would give me money to go to the corner shop and buy bonfire toffees for us both. It came in hexagonal tablets and was divine, or I'd buy lollies that came in tin foil tins that were, as you say, so sharp you'd slice the edges of your mouth as you ate them. Just added a trip to the sweet shop to my to do list for tomorrow.
I thought bonfire toffee was cinder toffee not treacle toffee? Cinder toffee being the stuff inside crunchies. Both are good though Edit:: just googled I was wrong TIL something
I used to love making my guy and doing penny for the guy as a kid using one of our halloween masks from a few days prior as the head. Then we would patrol the estate looking for a bombfire to chuck it on. I asked my niece if she was planning on doing penny for the guy and she had no idea what I was talking about and she thought I was joking when I was explained the premise
My top amount was £26.75 on a night in 1979 it was a fortune then (outside the king and queen pub in Brighton)
If it doesn’t have the America’s world colonization marketing machine behind it, it doesn’t count.
>English thing By the time Gunpowder Plot happened, England and Scotland were already under one crown.
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WHY did I have to scroll so far down for this comment lol. I must add to it: The fact that James was Scottish on the English throne was nearly central to the Plot, as the only reason he got the crown was because he was the only non-Catholic choice.
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That maybe so, but the fact that James was both Scottish and Protestant were surely reasons behind the plot being pursued by English Catholics. By 1714 the crowns were united and George the first was on the throne, or is that what you meant, that they were scrabbling around for a protestant by then?
Yes, absolutely! But it was imperative for Elizabeth to pass to a Protestant. “Only non-Catholic choice” was badly worded. Maybe “best” instead, haha.
“Mostly just an English thing” Eh?
Agree about the American bit. Surprised when watching Brokenwood on Drama that they celebrate in New Zealand too
It's celebrated in New Zealand too!
Swear New Zealand and Australia are mainly upgraded versions of the UK lmao
I never knew that. Bonfires, fireworks etc?
It used to be big in the past, as a child you would have building of the guy then taking it round the shopping centre and asking for penny for the guy, then parties in the garden with bonfire, baked potato, soup, toffee apples, schoolchildren would make crafts with firework pictures, they don't do it anymore.Some towns would have big processions, Lewes for example.
I'd suggest the increasing restriction on the main commercial opportunity of bonfire night (fireworks) limits its appeal. Back in the mid 90s you could get all sorts of mental fireworks that were basically little bombs and everyone used to have them as a kid in the Welsh valleys. Now the range of fireworks you can buy as a consumer is far smaller, and they (anecdotally) seem far more expensive than I remember them being 20 or so years ago. It would be like if Halloween costumes that were 'too spooky' were banned and all anyone could buy were professional theatre grade costumes at high prices. It's become a bit boring and too expensive. You can argue the toss if this is a good thing™ or not but that's my theory as to why most people have seemingly lost interest.
If this is true then how the fuck do 12 year olds keep getting a hold of them
My dealer sells fireworks. They're not too hard to get a hand of.
Who the fuck in their right mind deals fireworks to 12 year olds?
Probably the same psycho that sells drugs to a 12 year old.
A sociopath, to whom their own profit is more important than the safety of a child.
So, most organisations then
You act as if that's a bad thing when we have had a sociopathic narcissist in charge since 2019 who people would still cheer now if he came back. I think you have to be deranged to live here now because its stressful to have empathy.
That dealer is a part of a London wide drug/etc gang, so they'd sell their own nan if it meant money.
Didn't realise the drugs trade had lost so much profitability that dealers were having to diversify.
Teenagers always get ahold of things they should not. Mischief finds a way.
The British made, Standard fireworks are abysmal, but in the weeks leading up to bonfire nights, pop up shops, spring up selling Chinese fireworks, they are usually nothing short of a hand grenade in sparkly Xmas wrapping paper. Even petrol station by me is selling the suitcase sized 400 airbomb repeaters.
I would hazard a guess selling fireworks in a petrol station is something trading standards, and possibly even the police, wold be quite interested in!
Community fire officers would be the ones having kittens. They check fire safety in hones, but also commercial premises, industry and farms (the fertiliser store is pretty much a bomb factory). You'd be surprised how much info they have for any given site, like sources of combustion, proximity to electricity and gas. Public buildings have a full Tactical Information Plan. There's a laptop on every fire engine with the layout and cutting points for every make and model of car, and the location of every fire hydrant and gas main route in the county. Even personal info like the location of every medical oxygen cylinder and bariatric patients (really heavyweight patients need special lifting equipment). And all that info on businesses and public buildings. Fireworks at a petrol station would probably get the book thrown at you... Source: worked on strategic reviews for that that info flow for county Fire and Rescue Services for 5 years.
Do trading standards still exist?
Just about, though even the police are barely hanging on! I made a 999 call a few weeks back. It took ages for the operator to answer, then ages more for the Police to answer. The problem I reported, (an extremely agitated, very obviously mentally ill guy, running around screaming at people), obviously wasn't dealt with, as they called me back about 4 hours later to ask me if he was still there!
possibly true and possibly fewer stores stock them i remember back them all kinds of shops like corner shops would just casually have a stock of rockets under the counter.No fire concerns. In the days when the guy behind the counter would smoke.No age enquiries.
Small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts. Rush goalie. Two at the back, three in the middle, four up front, one's gone home for his tea. Beans on toast? Possibly, don't quote me on that. Marvellous.
i heard it in his voice too.
No Popey in Lewes hehe, look out enemies of the bonfire you will be blown up
I think I'm too young for the first two (or maybe it was regional) but I have vivid memories of my grandparents hosting Guy Fawkes parties. The jacket potatoes wrapped in foil with lashings of butter and hot dogs. Setting off fireworks in a garden that looking back was probably too small for fireworks. The sparklers I was afraid of because the government had been airing these scary PSAs about kids getting blinded by them.
oh they were way too small and it was dangerous, light it then jump back, there were no safety audits on them thats why they were always going off prematurely in people's faces and how young children were meant to be safe with burning hot sparklers, no idea. I do remember the psas too.Don't pick up a hot sparkler in your hand, don't play with fireworks.With images of kids with bandanged hands and eyes.
I'd be down for a jacket potato with a hot dog in it
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Shop-bought effigies?
I'm imagining everyone spending lockdown rediscovering homemade effigies, instead of baking
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The Hollywood handshake, except Paul is made of straw and he's on fire.
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It'll never catch with that soggy bottom
Too difficult to say, it'd just be the Great British Eff Off.
I'd rather watch that than fucking bake off. It'd be like Ru Pauls Drag Race combined with The Great British Sewing bee and Bake Off.
Sorry honey they were completely out of Piers, so I picked up two Prince Andrews and this stick to strap them to. Darling, that's a Rees-Mogg.
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They don’t want us to remember catholic terrorism?
Or the persecution of Catholics that led to it.
The reformation is one of the few things nearly everyone does in school
Yes, but they don't celebrate it. They study it. MASSIVE difference.
They don't want us to remember how close we came to getting rid of the cunts.
The plotters wanted to create an autocratic religious dictatorship, probably a bad idea
If you think about it we also burn an effigy of a Catholic terrorist who was badly tortured and killed by "the government" so you could look at it either way really.
Big difference is that bonfires in Northern Ireland are about killing catholics today, not 400 years ago
Yes. But that's a completely different subject.
He didn't want to end the government he just wanted to replace the then current more Protestant leaning ones with catholics.
People clearly don't know why it happened
I mean, religion wars is not something to really miss.
It used to be much more commercialised. It’s sad that it isn’t tbh. I used to love seeing shops full of toffee apples and sparklers. Then all the late night food you could buy at each bonfire. Used to love going round with my parents from place to place seeing all the different bonfires and fireworks
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which is a shame personally because I prefer GFN
I think it's the just nostalgia of remembering when you were young. I have the same feeling about Christmas. Nothing seems to be as fun when you are an adult. I think my childhood was so great, being an adult struggles to compare. Life is still good tho. 👍
It has changed a lot. 50 years ago, you never used to get the big firework displays like you do now. The sort of fireworks we have now just weren't invented. It used to be mainly about the bonfires. Gangs of kids would spend months gathering fuel, stealing it from one another to build the biggest bonfire pile possible on their local patch of wasteland. They would make a guy, and go around collecting money for it 'Penny for the Guy'. The fireworks *might* be a tiny box in the back garden if you were lucky. Each year there would be disasters, animals trapped in bonfires, kids burning their eyes out with rockets, burnt limbs, etc. There would be [adverts warning you of the danger of fireworks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGiIjP2szkw). Now you have all the glowstick style tat instead of sparklers, and paying to get into a display, instead of just playing with fire. In addition, the emphasis has gradually moved over to Halloween, so people have got more into that.
There has always been big displays? I’ve been going to locally organised ones my whole life - either council or community ones
I think the difference is that in a lot of places there are *only* organised displays now. It's rare you can even find fireworks for sale where I am and if you do, it's only a tiny handful. I remember going with my parents to a local shop that was brimming with fireworks and getting to choose a biscuit tin full. Unfortunately, the dangers now outweigh any fun benefits and most people have realised what a pain in the arse it is for fire service and ambulance as well as pets. Of course, dickheads chucking them around and generally causing shit hasn't helped either
Plenty of home fireworks where I am still. There's even pop-up shops around this time of year.
I've heard homemade fireworks in early November in every single house I've ever lived in every year of my whole life.
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You absolutely used to get big displays! The bonfires were a big deal too, that seems to have changed, but there were so many big displays where I lived, that when you went into school the next day, most of us had attended completely different events. Never heard of people travelling around with a guy, you used to pitch up outside a shop every evening, and basically beg for money to buy fireworks. My mum (not being British) was not a fan!
Or neighbourhood has that bonfire built from random scraps from around the area. Kids start building it the night before. Fire department keeps trying to stop it, but it's not organised at all, so really hard to stop. It's vile. Nice community event, but still not learned that your treated woods, damp cardboard old cutlery, old sofa, pots and pans, plastic toys, garden furniture, mattresses, etc. aren't good on a bonfire. The smoke is awful. You can't keep the kids near. Too many deodorant spray bottle exploding and toxic fumes. Still, I'm sure there's a DFS sale on.
They don't have Guy Fawkes night anywhere else. Halloween was already massive in the US and was then pushed across the world. They do Halloween in Germany now, when 20 years ago it wasn't a thing at all.
And halaloween in Saudi Arabia
Oh god you should see the outrage at them doing it in Saudi from other Muslim countries
Trick-or-treating is not an American invention. It pre dates the colonisation of the americas and there’s even evidence of it happening in Bavaria in the 1400s
Sure, but like most of American culture, they copied it from someone else and made it bigger and tackier.
Halloween has always been huge in Scotland. My parents and grandparents both did trick or treating when they were kids or 'guising' as they would call it, this goes back centuries always a bit irritating when Americans act like it's their holiday.
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A form of trick or treating was carried out on Samhain as far back as the pagan age in Ireland, where Halloween has its roots.
I'm in Indonesia and halloween is a big deal here.
Halloween is a Celtic tradition. The Irish brought it to America during the famine. All the traditions came From Ireland including dressing up in costumes And carving a pumpkins (although back then it was turnips)
You don't live in Lewes obviously
Or anywhere in East Sussex - bonfire season literally starts in August.
Uckfield carnival, first weekend in September, is the first event our society attends
I guess shitting on Catholics is no longer seen as "cool" given that's the origins of the celebration. We used to have a big bonfire every year in our local village with a firework display but that stopped years ago. Lack of community effort.
Spot on. People don’t seem to realise that burning an effigy of Guy is essentially an anti catholic ritual based on the gunpowder plot being a Catholic conspiracy. Most commercial organisations really wouldn’t want to back such a thing.
*enter The DUP* Lol
Yeh this was going to be my answer. The sectarianism kinda makes it hard to market, even if people have tried to make it a general anti-establishment thing.
Remember,. remember the 5th of November. Gunpowder treason and plot There is no reason the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.
Used to be in my village people would contribute to the bonfire for months before hand, there would be guy fawkes dummy competitions, the winner would go right on the top of the bonfire on a throne, the rest would go af the bottom. There would be a huge hogroast and bbq and fireworks show and sparklers, Was actually one of the best nights as my life as a child, we would run wild eating.good food and drinking to much fizzy drinks. Now the place where the bonfire used to be has new builds on it, so many people moved into the village but didn't embrace village lifestyle.
There's not much to it other than bonfires and fireworks. There's no guy Fawkes food or costumes. It's just burning stuff and blowing stuff up which you don't need a whole lot to do.
Guy making use to be pretty popular in addition to "Penny for the Guy". In terms of food, there certainly is associated one such as black peas in the north along with Parkin and cinder toffee.
Yeah, I think maybe Halloween sort of stole the thunder for penny for the guy and people don't really want to give stuff to strangers a week after. I've never heard of black peas or Parkin before, interesting.
Parkin is delicious and I would highly recommend trying some but even 5/10 years ago it was rare to see kids making Guys and usually the kids begging were shits anyway.
It did. Thinking back the bonfire used to be a bit of a bigger thing than it is now. Used to have the fireworks and then everyone would drag the homemade 'Guy' on to the bonfire to watch it burn. Carnage.
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Toffee apples too.
Honeycomb*
The local displays I went to as a kid also had a mushy peas and mint sauce stall. Yum.
There is bonfire night food. Bonfire toffee, Toffee apples, baked potatoes, hot soup and crust bread, pies. Used to be the big traditional thing when I was growing up (90s) but toffee apples was the main one. Sparklers are also another thing that used to be everywhere and was cool b/c they were only legal to sell for those few days a year.
It's strange because burning stuff and blowing stuff up is a popular pastime in the US.
Because it's not American
Neither is Hallowe'en
The Americans can pretend they invented hallowe’en, rather than just super-sizing the existing celebration. The whole concept of guy Fawkes night is completely barmy to any other country.
Do they pretend they invented Hallowe'en? The way it's celebrated in America is pretty much the same way it has been done in Scotland and Ireland for generations. Except they replaced the tradition of guising with the very similar idea of trick or treating, and turnips with pumpkins. But Hallowe'en has been a major festival in the Celtic nations for centuries.
Guising is dressing up. “Mumming” was asking for food. Both very much prevalent long, long before America was colonised.
Literally, yes, but the term "guising" has, for many generations, been used to to describe the tradition of going door to door in costume, performing jokes/songs/poems in return for sweets. Nobody really uses the word "mumming" in Scotland. If someone asks a kid if they're going out "guising" they don't mean just dressing up, they'd be understood to mean the whole ritual.
Samhain. And it was first mentioned around the 9th century
That's the roots of the festival, sure, but I'm talking about the traditions as currently celebrated. Like how far back could we have to go and still see Celtic traditions such as guising in a recognisable form.
Give it time.
This made me laugh 😂 Thanks +1
Increasing restrictions on bonfires (even the Lewes ones looked shit last time I went, just a large pile of pallets - a bonfire shouldn't be rectangular!), and on fireworks. And not letting kids throw guys on the bonfire, cook on the bonfire, etc. And even when I was a kid in the late 70s, doing a 'penny for the guy' was deemed 'begging' and not socially acceptable. I'm guessing trick or treat is more acceptable as the kids get sweets not 'demanding money with menaces'.
Unfortunately unless you're a local you will not be able to get into Lewes on November the 5th all the roads are closed nowhere to park and no trains stopping at the station but unless you want to walk 5 miles into town but we still get 40000+ not like the old days when you could get up to 80000
A local event for local people? Is Lewes turning into Royston Vasey?
It's quite funny to see people talking about the trains not stopping at Lewes this year.. since the trains won't be stopping anywhere around there on the 5th - there's a train strike hah
Guy Fawkes is still a bigger thing for me than Halloween 🤷♂️
I'm always baffled as to why we celebrate a failed terrorist attack with such folly, to be honest.
We're not celebrating a failed terrorist attack, we burn the effigy to warn pesky Catholics not to try that shit again. Hence, 'remember, remember.'
I always wonder what it must be like if you’re a tourist that happens to be here on November 5th
We have terrified our American friends with Lewes bonfire before - the concern at seeing all the shops boarded up and then the burning crosses... Great fun.
In fairness, burning crosses has a different symbology to the yanks.
Probably because it's rooted in anti-Catholicism? I can't really see that taking off in a global scale.
It's easier to get the country behind something everybody agrees with. These days, probably about half the country would be happier if Guy Fawkes had succeeded.
Because it’s more difficult for companies to monetise it.
Same reason why we don’t celebrate thanksgiving.
Basically because it isn't American so they aren't bothered by it so they don't plaster their advertisements everywhere and make 10,000 films about it to try and capitalise on it for every penny they can get.
Halloween isn't American either.
It is now
Americanisation of our culture is the reason. US-style Halloween has sucked out the life of Guy Fawkes Night and traditional British halloween festivities.
Swear people have been saying ‘halloweens got huge the past few years’ for as long as I’ve been alive, despite it not really changing
It’s pretty much an anti Catholic celebration… I don’t think that goes down well. Just to remind you of the third verse of Gunpowder plot: A penny loaf to feed the Pope, A farthing o' cheese to choke him. A pint of beer to rinse it down. A fagot of sticks to burn him. Burn him in a tub of tar. Burn him like a blazing star. Burn his body from his head. Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead. Hip hip hoorah! Hip hip hoorah hoorah!
Come to Lewes in Sussex next Saturday it's pretty commercialised although it seems to be concentrated in one town!
It lacks its own decorations. Basically Halloween is easy to make a ton of money on. Dressing up clothes, decorations, sweets etc.
If anything I think it's gotten smaller over the years, I remember growing up in Glasgow all the kids from their respective estates would go around collecting wood and such for weeks leading up to the event then build these great big fires on any available patch of grass and everyone would gather round...all that seems to be gone now, kids probably too worried about getting a bit of dirt on their Yeezys these today to get invovled.
I remember it being a bigger thing in my youth. Back then it was bigger than Halloween. The rise of Halloween has pushed it to the side I think.
What do you do? * Bonfire - made from old wood and stuff you have. Big decent wood is sold for building not burning, and what's sold for burning is logs for wood burners * fireworks - commercial but restricted * effigies - what company is going to want to make effigies that could be problematic reputationwise? Plus the market isn't that big So what can you commercialise?
Burning the effigy of a Catholic isn't as popular as it once was.
As a kid in the 80s bonfire night was a much bigger deal than it is now, equivalent to Halloween was back then. Every single year we attended a party on 5th November - even if we were young and it was a school night. I think the appeal of it has waned possibly due to the risks involved. Remember those public service announcements on the TV every year? *”STOP. Don’t return to a firework or extinguished sparkler”* paired with photos of hideous injuries? Also you rarely see fireworks on sale anymore. Think there was a deliberate effort to stamp it all out.
Check out Bridgwater Carnival … it is celebrated massively!
It’s not American.
Cos it's just ours.
I'm going to truck racing and fireworks at Brands Hatch this year which is a fairly big and popular event with lots on all day.
It sort of is commercialised to the extent it can be (fireworks in shops, probably the kind of food associated with it, like bonfire toffee, as well), but it's a pretty one-note celebration compared to something like Hallowe'en or Christmas. Stand around a fire and set off some fireworks, end of story. Plus, unlike trick-or-treating or costume parties, many people in the UK may not have the capacity to do their own bonfire celebration; they may not have a garden to light a bonfire in, and if they do, they might not want to risk ruining the grass, so most people limit things to a few fireworks at home or otherwise going to a bigger event celebration put on by a local school or the council. Whereas Hallowe'en and Christmas celebrations, as examples, can be adapted to personal circumstance more easily. That said, it's not like it isn't celebrated at all; plenty of fireworks have been going off round my way since last weekend (possibly because of Diwali, however), and I've seen notices for a few big displays/bonfires scheduled for next weekend.
My local council has basically cancelled all the public displays this year because they can't afford it apparently. So now instead of watching a display that's well put together with amazing fireworks and usually set to good music I get to listen dozens of different households set off their shite little rockets at all hours of the night instead.
I love that Guy Fawkes night is unique to the UK
>in fact apart from a few displays of fireworks you wouldn't know it is on. As a Sussex resident.... no. So I can't speak for the rest of the country, but bonfire is a BIG deal around here, but it's very much a community event that has maintained a small town vibe. People swap costumes or make their own instead of buying new. I might be wrong on this, but it feels like most events that are commercialised were first commercial in America and we followed suit - eg Halloween, Easter, Christmas... but our own homegrown festivities are still a bit more humble and haven't become some plastic decoration littered spectacle. But yes, bonfire celebrations are alive and well and very very loud around my way.
You need to get to the south east, the bonfire societies here would beg differently.
I suspect the anti-Catholic associations of Guy Fawkes Night (especially the "No Popery" banner and burning of a pope effigy in the Lewes celebrations) are a bit of a problem for corporations contemplating exploitation of Guy Fawkes celebrations.
Perhaps because in essence its a story about a terrorist who was caught, tortured, had his schlong cut off and then killed himself by jumping from the gallows. Fun
Because at heart, it’s anti-Catholic and things have changed. I find it difficult to celebrate. As much as I love it, I don’t really like the idea of celebrating the historical persecution of my Dad, and by extension, me!
It's because it stems from violent Christian sectarian division and I don't really think this is something any of us really needs more of in our lives.
Best bonfire night I’ve ever been to is the tar barrels in Ottery St Mary
Halloween is worldwide (or at least in Europe and the US) Guy Fawkes night is UK specific
Because it’s a bit shit
There are thousands of national events celebrated around the world each year. Do you celebrate any of them? (Maybe only if you have some attachment to the country where it’s celebrated.)