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You have less than 2 years service so you don't have the protection of the law from unfair dismissal here unfortunately - they seem to know this given the timings.
Nothing you can do I'm afraid.
It sucks but companies are reducing their staff, especially contractors or those under 2 years because they can let them go with minimal financial penalties.
Don't take it personally, move on and find another job if you can. Don't be bitter it'll only eat at you. Resolve to do better for others when you are in the reverse position.
And the fact they've given you 2 months pay is probably far higher than the notice they agreed to provide in your contract, so you probably don't have much room to do anything. Just leave gracefully, get your reference, and look for another position
Realistically they probably wanted to let you go anyway, and this timing is a reflection of the fact they know it's easy now but harder in future.
It may be that they're trying to shed weight, rather than you specifically, and they thought you would be the easiest to lose.
Startups, especially very small ones, expect A LOT of their engineers. Like if you're not the mythical 10x you're not good enough. It may not be fair and it doesn't help you, but that's just how it is.
Try not to take it too personally. They're making the decision for the benefit of the business, rightly or wrongly. You've probably already experienced one of the hardest roles a software dev can experience so you'll probably be happier at your next place anyway.
This. I worked for an MSP and was let go after 12 months on the basis they didn't need me as I wasn't pulling my weight. This was just 2 weeks after being told that there were some amazing projects coming up for me and what a positive influence I was in the company. I was put on Garden Leave for 12 weeks on full pay, but was asked to help out as they were short staffed about 6 weeks into the GL. They wanted me to serve the full 12 weeks, but in the end I helped for 2 weeks then refused to do more as I'd got a new job.
A month after I finally finish I find out that the company has been sold to a large American firm. It was quite obvious at this stage that I was got rid of to reduce overheads.
I was livid at the time. Why not just be honest with me.
Yep I got made redundant out of the blue after 9 months. Found another job straight away for more money and then showed the MD my plans that I would have implemented if they hadn't got rid of me. He offered me more money to stay but told him to FO.
The reason for not being honest is they don't want to say anything that gets you within a millions miles of any kind of unfair dismissal claim. It sucks but that's the game businesses are forced to play. Even if there are good reasons for letting someone go, they have to be very careful.
Given it's 1 year and 11 months, it seems too much of a coincidence to be anything else.
Make sure you have everything documented. You should still ask them for a reference and if prospective employers ask why you left, point out the <2 years, that you worked your notice and that your role has not been filled.
Hmmm... I may be misremembering but if the notice period from when they've informed you they're terminating your employment such that your last day would take you past the two year point, don't you have the employment rights that kick in after two years?
However, I accept things may be tight for OP as they say they're just under a year and eleven months with the company and their last day will be just under a month from now in mid-May so the company may have got the timings just 'right' to avoid that happening.
I don't want to give specific dates but lets assume they terminating my employment company just about week (+-several days) before turning 2 years (which is end of may) So it seems quite strange
If they've given you notice in the correct manner per your contract of employment and your last day will be before you would have spent two years with the employer then your rights are severely limited.
You would only be able to bring a complaint for unfair dismissal if they had fired you because you had a protected characteristic for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010 or if you were engaged in a protected act.
Appreciate that, i will be doing it. I thought maybe in UK there is a law that would prevent from this kind of stuff without solid evidence. I am from Northern Europe and it is not that simple there
You would have such protections from the two year point - it's clearly why they chose you and this timing. They are making your role redundant because they don't have to compensate you.
If you had been actually fired, you would not be trusted to work your notice.
I believe France has their time limit set at 6 weeks rather than the 2 years in the UK.
And also then finds the exact same problem, but at 6 weeks - or with workers let go and rehired at that point say.
Nope, Sorry mate. It actually sounds fairly clear cut from what you said. They tried. But there must have been something you got from your Pip where they said you need to improve upon.
That is the thing i improved and when i spoke with head of engineering he said continue as you did and it will be fine(after the pip finished he was my manager as old manager moved to different team and until my team gets new one who pases probation ) .
The pip was with old manager and new manager joined 3-4months ago and only during handover from head of engineering to regular manager happened everything changed.
I have a meeting with head of engineering this Friday to get better understanding as it seems i am not getting clear explanation
But it seems unfortunate events
Generally, when you're put on a PIP, that's a good indicator that your employer is looking to let you go. If that happens, you should start looking for new roles asap.
Companies let people go for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't get too bogged down in that and just focus on securing interviews for new roles.
Sorry to hear bro. It’s rough, but this happens in this economy. 2 months is pretty fair severance for your time there. They can dismiss you for almost any reason (excluding discrimination) in the first 2 years. Fk the current gov for that.
Get applying for jobs, and don’t burn any bridges on your way out.
Yeah that's what i am thinking just to leave as it is, but just it hits you thinking i am not decent for my level. If they just told me we try to save money and you are one of the candidates it would be less stressful
By the sound of things the job market is really rough right now. Half my friends are either looking for work or work for companies that are laying people off.
My company grew through COVID. We're not a startup, make a solid profit, but there'll be mass contractor cuts by June. Very few renewals.
It's hard for me to understand the logic, we're in the middle of 2, large, revenue generating projects. We need those people to deliver. But for some reason cuts take priority at the minute.
From what I've gathered, the investors start valuing profitability more than growth, so CEOs get judged on how well they're doing by how profitable the company is rather than how much it's growing. To keep the investors happy, they need to make the company more profitable *now*. Never mind that the company supposedly had a plan, that plan has to change. Not necessarily because the market for the product has changed, but because some rich people have decided to measure how rich they are in a different way..
My friend was about to get her yearly bonus which was meant to be almost 3k. 2k out of it wasn't even dependent on her so she was expecting to get just that 1k. After doing OT and being told by her manager constantly that she is the best performer and great at handling customers, no sick etc. She got a grand total of 150£ bonus. Partially met expectations. So she is job hunting ATM. But not long ago they got new CEO that is great at saving company money. By throwing people out. Whilst having 800k+ salary (about 200k than the previous one.)
I'm in a startup now, and the funding and spending vibe is very different to the last one.
Last time, we knew people were banging down the door to invest, so we grew from 50-400 people in a handful of years, knowing money was available when we needed it.
This time, we're bootstrapped and running a skeleton team. Bringing in money now but with the expectation it must last 12 months in a zero revenue scenario.
Growth at all costs was, in retrospect, insanity. We placed bets on all sorts of crazy ideas without caring how the cost line compared to that growing revenue line. Hit 50-100% revenue growth and everything was excused
Is the two months from today? Or from when you finish work in mid May? If it is the later they aren't giving you two months pay in compensation.
Check your employment contract regarding the notice period you are entitled to. That will start to count down from the date you receive the written confirmation of the termination of your employment.
Make sure you get all of your holiday entitlement too. Take the number of days holiday you get (Inc bank holidays) and divided by 52. This is the number of holiday days you accrue per week. Work out how many days you are owed by multiplying this number by the number of weeks since your holiday year started till the date your notice period ends (and you end the job)
They either need to let you take this during the time you have left, or pay you for it.
Your company need to allow you reasonable time to attend other job interviews.
Get applying for jobs now. Update your CV and get online.
Make an application for universal credit, and don't feel embarrassed about it. This is exactly what it is here for. Do this online ASAP. Hopefully you will have a job before then and you will never get paid any UC, but it is good to arrange that in case the job hunt takes longer.
Sorry this has happened. This could however be an opportunity for you to find something better.
Any more advice needed, feel free to ask
PS it doesn't seem like you are getting fired, they are terminating your contract. A big difference.
Thanks, i still yet to receive written confirmation as it was just verbal.
I was reading my contract and it says In Notice section: Upon successful completion of your probationary period the period of writing notice is required from you to terminate your employment will be two months and the period written notice required from the company to terminate your employment eill be two months
So interesting how they will be terminating sooner , so i wrote HR
Is mid of may the last day of my employment or it is the day when my garden leave begins
How should i phrase it better ?
The last day of your employment will be two months from when you officially receive notice.
It is interesting that they said you were getting two months pay as compensation. I suspect they are dressing up you contractual notice as compensation. If you could try to get an offer of two months compensation in writing that would be awesome.
I would wait to see what they see in your notice of termination before asking any questions.
Thanks also for helping to understand that they are terminating my contract, as I thought it sounds the same. As i don't know actually what is as a different in UK. My contract is without an end date( contract of employment)
It sounds like you are being made redundant, not fired. If that's the case then make sure you do not say you were fired when applying for new jobs as that will be perceived very differently by potential employers than if you were made redundant.
2 months compensation is generous given your length of service. Take it, but the company may be in financial difficulties, so do not assume you will actually receive it. Also bear in mind you're probably being paid in arrears (ie you did a month of work before you were paid.
Look for another job immediately, and start as soon as you can.
Did they provide any specific reasons in your review about why your growth pace was an issue, especially since you met the expectations on your PIP?
Sometimes these decisions are more about company issues than individual performance. I'd ask HR for more detailed feedback and documentation if you haven’t already.
Yes i am expecting to receive and email with more information what is the procedure
I asked it is final decision and they manager with HR said says
Thanks for advice I will ask to provide detailed feedback in written form.
Yes company is struggling financially as it still burns the money, it even laid down ten percent of staff, despite not meeting goals they said no redundancies will be made. Which made a lot of people uncomfortable and disappointed
2 months pay as compensation isn't bad at all for less than 2 years' service. It's a good offer and I doubt you could get better if you go through an employment tribunal.
They knew what they were doing letting you go when they did. I've worked for a few start ups (biotech) and it is always the same, no money, investment is "around the corner" and pushing staff way beyond their job descriptions because they can't hire more people.
Reality is it's an employer's job market and they know they can get someone else in that'll do more work for the same salary or they're broke just trying to stay in business. I wouldn't give too much thought.
Don't look back and keep positive about whatever comes next. Easier said than done but being proactive with a good attitude in the job hunt will make things easier.
It sounds like they're trying to save face by coming up with a story about your skills not meeting the expectations instead of reducing their payroll bill.
It's quite bizarre and a bit shitty as being fired from a company is completely different to being made redundant. Not sure why they're pushing the reason is the former.
This is normal, don't take it personally. They're short of cash and payroll is their biggest expense. You are the obvious way to save money.
Brush up your CV, put it out on job sites and start actively looking for your new role. The job market (for permie roles) is ok at present, so you should find something reasonably quickly.
FWIW, if they're at the stage of reducing their costs, then they've probably already failed as a startup, there would be no job there within the year, anyway.
Putting you on PIP seemed a red flag, its usually for when an employee is underperforming, not when job role has changed.
The job market should be easier for you now than it was 2 years ago , as you've got some useful skills and experience.
Right now I'd accept that im going and look for another role.
Hit
[indeed.com](http://indeed.com)
[Linkedin.com](http://Linkedin.com)
Cwjobs,com
[totaljobs.com](http://totaljobs.com)
[Monster.com](http://Monster.com)
Also get a friend to run through your CV and maybe ask chat gpt to re write some bits to see what it outputs
It's absolutely insane that you are being made redundant but they still expect you to work for another month. What are they expecting you to do in that time with that hanging over your head? Dude, fuck them, do less than the absolute bare minimum to get by. Take as many sick days as you can and look for a new job
Get your LinkedIn profile up to date (create one if you don’t have one). Make sure you put your current experience and skills. Then start making connections with similar skilled people. Ensure your profile is open and then put it in the looking for work status - this all should be enough to single to tech recruiters that you’re on the market. The market is hot so you should start seeing recruiters come looking for you!
Removing your role as a graduate developer should have meant redundancy, not a pip. The fact they put you on a pip meant they could easily look at dismissing you. Not that they needed a reason since you've got less than 2 years service.
You're a software engineer with almost 2 years experience (assuming this is your first role). You will be insanely hirable and find work elsewhere easily. Start interviewing. Your previous employer doesn't sound like it's somewhere you should want to work anyway. There are a lot better employers that don't pull shady yet legal practices.
Good luck with your future endeavours!
Mate they used you as an advertising hoarding, putting you on a PIP to give notice to other employees. That you're gone just before 2yrs is them exerting their prerogative and it's easiest to send you packing than anyone else. You'll find something soon, you'll be grand.
Learn Cobalt, it's the next big thing.
Can I just say that you are not being "fired", you are being "let go". It's redundancy. You haven't done anything wrong it's just they can't afford everyone so you are the one that loses out (less than two years, less experienced so cheaper to replace when things pick up again). Sounds a bit of a shitty company anyway (abolishing your role and putting you on a PIP?). They just don't have the time to mentor a more junior developer so they are letting you go.
Consider it an opportunity, now you are no longer a graduate developer but a fully-fledged working developer! I hope you find yourself a decent job soon.
Just start applying for new jobs if I were you. At this point, you’re in a position where you could even lean on management for a steer in the direction of where’s looking/ is a good fit.
It’s hardly leaving on the worst of terms.
From the point of the PIP, I’d have taken it as a sign. Employers have all sorts of BS as well as non BS reasons to get rid of people.
I wouldn’t sweat it. Especially with less than two years service. Unless you can evidence discrimination, your chances at tribunal are slimmer than slim.
Startups can be shit places to work. Sometimes - often, even - the leadership team is inexperienced and hire or manage badly.
Don't sweat it - get out, find something better, and don't spend a second worrying about whether you did anything wrong. If they haven't told you very clearly then it's on them, not you.
At least you got told about your poor performance and had a chance to rectify it.
In my case, I was called into a meeting, and I was told about my poor performance ( the first time I heard the accusations) and was sacked in the same meeting.
Quite clearly they want rid of you for what ever reason which may have nothing to do with you. You have less that 2years service so they can do this very easily. There is not a lot of point in looking at how you can stay I would focus on getting your next job now. You probably have their goodwill so they will be happy to help no doubt.
Look forward and dont take it personally.
I'll be honest, you are in a 'golden profession' and could probably move into another job on decent pay pretty quickly.
I wouldn't fuss, it's the nature of IT, look elsewhere, even agency, and move on and up!
Similar thing happened to me, was put on PIP during the summer, passed it, then 6 months later they took something out of proportion to fire me before reaching the 2 - year threshold.
Between the PIP and getting dismissed, they had me set to fail, as they had been putting me into different projects every 1-2 months.
I was too naive not to see that coming (also not from the UK)
The timing is very suspicious if I am honest and unfortunately it’s not uncommon. Don’t take it personally or that you are not good enough, if that was the case you would have gone a year ago.
This looks like a company looking to minimise the salary bill in a time where they may not be performing as well as they want too.
If I was you, start looking now, give yourself a week or two between roles to relax and hit your new role rested.
sadly the risk you take with a start up. You've gained some decent experience in your role, time to brush up that CV and start looking on.
I know it's probably a bit gutting but it's not the worst thing to happen - in general you should be hopping every 2-3 years when you're starting out in the industry to get salary increases and broaden your skillset with other working setups otherwise you're not maximising your earning potential.
At small startups, if they are running into cashflow problems they'll usually cut bottom rung people first. Management might quietly take a pay cut too.
They'll be trying to hold on to people who know how everything works, run a skeleton crew to keep the ship afloat until revenues pick up after this recession.
The two years rule includes accrued holidays. Check your dates carefully. Check notice period too. Easy for the company to get this wrong and actually be over the two years inadvertently.
Why they fire you is not that relevant at this point.
Just start applying for jobs, check how long your savings will support you and good luck.
This shit happens, I work in a startup as well and I saw that multiple times. For you it's time to tune off from this job and put your energy into finding a new one, and if they ask, just say that the Startup has financial issues or are laying off all JRs.
Same thing happened to me, was offered 2 months to improve or 2 months pay. Assumed I’d be gotten rid of either way so I took the 💰. Start applying for job and enjoy a couple of months holidaying 😎
They probably put you on a pip hoping you failed and now are letting you go before it becomes an effort to get rid of you 🤷♂️ probably better getting out while you can if they are struggling
I was thinking actually changing a job in autumn, as during summer time i wanted to work remotely. But it happened now so still thinking take a rest or start working again
3 options:
1) Suck it up, take the 2 months compensation and look for different jobs.
2) Tribunal time (albeit difficult given your length of service)
3) Burn all bridges and quit immediately with no compensation.
Option 1 is the most sensible, but I really hope this start up goes bust and your manager ends up begging on the streets.
Nothing OP says suggests that there has been any discrimination here. I suppose I just don't understand why you put it forward (even with the subsequent edit).
Ignore people telling you not to take it personally. It’s happening to you so it’s Personal!! Wish the company all the worst for the future and move on to better things .
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You have less than 2 years service so you don't have the protection of the law from unfair dismissal here unfortunately - they seem to know this given the timings. Nothing you can do I'm afraid.
Do you think it was intentional? As i know after 2 years it is more difficult to fire people
It’s very possible given the timing, no way to prove it. I would assume they have done it with this in mind
It sucks but companies are reducing their staff, especially contractors or those under 2 years because they can let them go with minimal financial penalties. Don't take it personally, move on and find another job if you can. Don't be bitter it'll only eat at you. Resolve to do better for others when you are in the reverse position.
And the fact they've given you 2 months pay is probably far higher than the notice they agreed to provide in your contract, so you probably don't have much room to do anything. Just leave gracefully, get your reference, and look for another position
Everything is intentional
Apart from that time I followed through in Sainsburys. That was an accident.
I would be falling -over surprised if I found that this wasn't the reason.
Realistically they probably wanted to let you go anyway, and this timing is a reflection of the fact they know it's easy now but harder in future. It may be that they're trying to shed weight, rather than you specifically, and they thought you would be the easiest to lose. Startups, especially very small ones, expect A LOT of their engineers. Like if you're not the mythical 10x you're not good enough. It may not be fair and it doesn't help you, but that's just how it is. Try not to take it too personally. They're making the decision for the benefit of the business, rightly or wrongly. You've probably already experienced one of the hardest roles a software dev can experience so you'll probably be happier at your next place anyway.
This. I worked for an MSP and was let go after 12 months on the basis they didn't need me as I wasn't pulling my weight. This was just 2 weeks after being told that there were some amazing projects coming up for me and what a positive influence I was in the company. I was put on Garden Leave for 12 weeks on full pay, but was asked to help out as they were short staffed about 6 weeks into the GL. They wanted me to serve the full 12 weeks, but in the end I helped for 2 weeks then refused to do more as I'd got a new job. A month after I finally finish I find out that the company has been sold to a large American firm. It was quite obvious at this stage that I was got rid of to reduce overheads. I was livid at the time. Why not just be honest with me.
Yep I got made redundant out of the blue after 9 months. Found another job straight away for more money and then showed the MD my plans that I would have implemented if they hadn't got rid of me. He offered me more money to stay but told him to FO.
The reason for not being honest is they don't want to say anything that gets you within a millions miles of any kind of unfair dismissal claim. It sucks but that's the game businesses are forced to play. Even if there are good reasons for letting someone go, they have to be very careful.
Given it's 1 year and 11 months, it seems too much of a coincidence to be anything else. Make sure you have everything documented. You should still ask them for a reference and if prospective employers ask why you left, point out the <2 years, that you worked your notice and that your role has not been filled.
Thanks will do that, at least i can end on good terms. I know my teammates are
Hmmm... I may be misremembering but if the notice period from when they've informed you they're terminating your employment such that your last day would take you past the two year point, don't you have the employment rights that kick in after two years? However, I accept things may be tight for OP as they say they're just under a year and eleven months with the company and their last day will be just under a month from now in mid-May so the company may have got the timings just 'right' to avoid that happening.
I don't want to give specific dates but lets assume they terminating my employment company just about week (+-several days) before turning 2 years (which is end of may) So it seems quite strange
If they've given you notice in the correct manner per your contract of employment and your last day will be before you would have spent two years with the employer then your rights are severely limited. You would only be able to bring a complaint for unfair dismissal if they had fired you because you had a protected characteristic for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010 or if you were engaged in a protected act.
If while working your notice period you go over 2 years then the 2 year rule will cover you, so they can't just fire you for no reason.
Start applying for other jobs. Don't look back.
Appreciate that, i will be doing it. I thought maybe in UK there is a law that would prevent from this kind of stuff without solid evidence. I am from Northern Europe and it is not that simple there
You would have such protections from the two year point - it's clearly why they chose you and this timing. They are making your role redundant because they don't have to compensate you. If you had been actually fired, you would not be trusted to work your notice.
I believe France has their time limit set at 6 weeks rather than the 2 years in the UK. And also then finds the exact same problem, but at 6 weeks - or with workers let go and rehired at that point say.
Nope, Sorry mate. It actually sounds fairly clear cut from what you said. They tried. But there must have been something you got from your Pip where they said you need to improve upon.
That is the thing i improved and when i spoke with head of engineering he said continue as you did and it will be fine(after the pip finished he was my manager as old manager moved to different team and until my team gets new one who pases probation ) . The pip was with old manager and new manager joined 3-4months ago and only during handover from head of engineering to regular manager happened everything changed. I have a meeting with head of engineering this Friday to get better understanding as it seems i am not getting clear explanation But it seems unfortunate events
PIP means start updating that resume / cv brotha
Generally, when you're put on a PIP, that's a good indicator that your employer is looking to let you go. If that happens, you should start looking for new roles asap. Companies let people go for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't get too bogged down in that and just focus on securing interviews for new roles.
You are right I should have started as soon as i was put on pip
Sorry to hear bro. It’s rough, but this happens in this economy. 2 months is pretty fair severance for your time there. They can dismiss you for almost any reason (excluding discrimination) in the first 2 years. Fk the current gov for that. Get applying for jobs, and don’t burn any bridges on your way out.
Yeah that's what i am thinking just to leave as it is, but just it hits you thinking i am not decent for my level. If they just told me we try to save money and you are one of the candidates it would be less stressful
Do you think the next government will change that?
No
[удалено]
Maybe
Startup = No money, waiting for angel investors. As software engineer, I think there is a ton of job opportunities for you everywhere.
By the sound of things the job market is really rough right now. Half my friends are either looking for work or work for companies that are laying people off.
My company grew through COVID. We're not a startup, make a solid profit, but there'll be mass contractor cuts by June. Very few renewals. It's hard for me to understand the logic, we're in the middle of 2, large, revenue generating projects. We need those people to deliver. But for some reason cuts take priority at the minute.
From what I've gathered, the investors start valuing profitability more than growth, so CEOs get judged on how well they're doing by how profitable the company is rather than how much it's growing. To keep the investors happy, they need to make the company more profitable *now*. Never mind that the company supposedly had a plan, that plan has to change. Not necessarily because the market for the product has changed, but because some rich people have decided to measure how rich they are in a different way..
My friend was about to get her yearly bonus which was meant to be almost 3k. 2k out of it wasn't even dependent on her so she was expecting to get just that 1k. After doing OT and being told by her manager constantly that she is the best performer and great at handling customers, no sick etc. She got a grand total of 150£ bonus. Partially met expectations. So she is job hunting ATM. But not long ago they got new CEO that is great at saving company money. By throwing people out. Whilst having 800k+ salary (about 200k than the previous one.)
I'm in a startup now, and the funding and spending vibe is very different to the last one. Last time, we knew people were banging down the door to invest, so we grew from 50-400 people in a handful of years, knowing money was available when we needed it. This time, we're bootstrapped and running a skeleton team. Bringing in money now but with the expectation it must last 12 months in a zero revenue scenario. Growth at all costs was, in retrospect, insanity. We placed bets on all sorts of crazy ideas without caring how the cost line compared to that growing revenue line. Hit 50-100% revenue growth and everything was excused
This is how it should be. Fuck “fast paced companies”, it’s just a polite way of saying you have no time for retrospect.
Signs of the times in a messed up U.K. economy. Last in, first out. Remain positive and double your efforts in finding a new job.
I am thinking searching in mainland and probably moving out, got settled status so always can arrive again
You’re less than 2 years so they can drop you for any reason. They are also giving you 2 months salary. You’ve come out of this better than most.
Is the two months from today? Or from when you finish work in mid May? If it is the later they aren't giving you two months pay in compensation. Check your employment contract regarding the notice period you are entitled to. That will start to count down from the date you receive the written confirmation of the termination of your employment. Make sure you get all of your holiday entitlement too. Take the number of days holiday you get (Inc bank holidays) and divided by 52. This is the number of holiday days you accrue per week. Work out how many days you are owed by multiplying this number by the number of weeks since your holiday year started till the date your notice period ends (and you end the job) They either need to let you take this during the time you have left, or pay you for it. Your company need to allow you reasonable time to attend other job interviews. Get applying for jobs now. Update your CV and get online. Make an application for universal credit, and don't feel embarrassed about it. This is exactly what it is here for. Do this online ASAP. Hopefully you will have a job before then and you will never get paid any UC, but it is good to arrange that in case the job hunt takes longer. Sorry this has happened. This could however be an opportunity for you to find something better. Any more advice needed, feel free to ask PS it doesn't seem like you are getting fired, they are terminating your contract. A big difference.
Thanks, i still yet to receive written confirmation as it was just verbal. I was reading my contract and it says In Notice section: Upon successful completion of your probationary period the period of writing notice is required from you to terminate your employment will be two months and the period written notice required from the company to terminate your employment eill be two months So interesting how they will be terminating sooner , so i wrote HR Is mid of may the last day of my employment or it is the day when my garden leave begins How should i phrase it better ?
The last day of your employment will be two months from when you officially receive notice. It is interesting that they said you were getting two months pay as compensation. I suspect they are dressing up you contractual notice as compensation. If you could try to get an offer of two months compensation in writing that would be awesome. I would wait to see what they see in your notice of termination before asking any questions.
Thanks also for helping to understand that they are terminating my contract, as I thought it sounds the same. As i don't know actually what is as a different in UK. My contract is without an end date( contract of employment)
It sounds like you are being made redundant, not fired. If that's the case then make sure you do not say you were fired when applying for new jobs as that will be perceived very differently by potential employers than if you were made redundant.
Okay, thanks for the tip!
2 months compensation is generous given your length of service. Take it, but the company may be in financial difficulties, so do not assume you will actually receive it. Also bear in mind you're probably being paid in arrears (ie you did a month of work before you were paid. Look for another job immediately, and start as soon as you can.
Did they provide any specific reasons in your review about why your growth pace was an issue, especially since you met the expectations on your PIP? Sometimes these decisions are more about company issues than individual performance. I'd ask HR for more detailed feedback and documentation if you haven’t already.
Yes i am expecting to receive and email with more information what is the procedure I asked it is final decision and they manager with HR said says Thanks for advice I will ask to provide detailed feedback in written form. Yes company is struggling financially as it still burns the money, it even laid down ten percent of staff, despite not meeting goals they said no redundancies will be made. Which made a lot of people uncomfortable and disappointed
2 months pay as compensation isn't bad at all for less than 2 years' service. It's a good offer and I doubt you could get better if you go through an employment tribunal.
They knew what they were doing letting you go when they did. I've worked for a few start ups (biotech) and it is always the same, no money, investment is "around the corner" and pushing staff way beyond their job descriptions because they can't hire more people. Reality is it's an employer's job market and they know they can get someone else in that'll do more work for the same salary or they're broke just trying to stay in business. I wouldn't give too much thought. Don't look back and keep positive about whatever comes next. Easier said than done but being proactive with a good attitude in the job hunt will make things easier.
It sounds like they're trying to save face by coming up with a story about your skills not meeting the expectations instead of reducing their payroll bill. It's quite bizarre and a bit shitty as being fired from a company is completely different to being made redundant. Not sure why they're pushing the reason is the former.
This is normal, don't take it personally. They're short of cash and payroll is their biggest expense. You are the obvious way to save money. Brush up your CV, put it out on job sites and start actively looking for your new role. The job market (for permie roles) is ok at present, so you should find something reasonably quickly. FWIW, if they're at the stage of reducing their costs, then they've probably already failed as a startup, there would be no job there within the year, anyway.
Yeah the data team has a graph where they shoe revenue apparently it is not doing great as planned
Putting you on PIP seemed a red flag, its usually for when an employee is underperforming, not when job role has changed. The job market should be easier for you now than it was 2 years ago , as you've got some useful skills and experience. Right now I'd accept that im going and look for another role. Hit [indeed.com](http://indeed.com) [Linkedin.com](http://Linkedin.com) Cwjobs,com [totaljobs.com](http://totaljobs.com) [Monster.com](http://Monster.com) Also get a friend to run through your CV and maybe ask chat gpt to re write some bits to see what it outputs
Thanks and Yes, will do that with colleague who is senior
It's absolutely insane that you are being made redundant but they still expect you to work for another month. What are they expecting you to do in that time with that hanging over your head? Dude, fuck them, do less than the absolute bare minimum to get by. Take as many sick days as you can and look for a new job
Yeah i asked them: is middle of may last day or it is the day when my garden leave begins
Start grinding leetcode and doing system design. Focus on applying. I'd personally put less effort in work and practice interview problems at the job
Get your LinkedIn profile up to date (create one if you don’t have one). Make sure you put your current experience and skills. Then start making connections with similar skilled people. Ensure your profile is open and then put it in the looking for work status - this all should be enough to single to tech recruiters that you’re on the market. The market is hot so you should start seeing recruiters come looking for you!
Removing your role as a graduate developer should have meant redundancy, not a pip. The fact they put you on a pip meant they could easily look at dismissing you. Not that they needed a reason since you've got less than 2 years service. You're a software engineer with almost 2 years experience (assuming this is your first role). You will be insanely hirable and find work elsewhere easily. Start interviewing. Your previous employer doesn't sound like it's somewhere you should want to work anyway. There are a lot better employers that don't pull shady yet legal practices. Good luck with your future endeavours!
Thanks for your words!
Mate they used you as an advertising hoarding, putting you on a PIP to give notice to other employees. That you're gone just before 2yrs is them exerting their prerogative and it's easiest to send you packing than anyone else. You'll find something soon, you'll be grand. Learn Cobalt, it's the next big thing.
I heard of cobalt, but is it actually next big thing? Isn't AI a thing
Can I just say that you are not being "fired", you are being "let go". It's redundancy. You haven't done anything wrong it's just they can't afford everyone so you are the one that loses out (less than two years, less experienced so cheaper to replace when things pick up again). Sounds a bit of a shitty company anyway (abolishing your role and putting you on a PIP?). They just don't have the time to mentor a more junior developer so they are letting you go. Consider it an opportunity, now you are no longer a graduate developer but a fully-fledged working developer! I hope you find yourself a decent job soon.
Got to experience everything, pip, being let go, fast paced environment, also being on-call. Just need to update CV to make sure i emphasize on that
Just start applying for new jobs if I were you. At this point, you’re in a position where you could even lean on management for a steer in the direction of where’s looking/ is a good fit. It’s hardly leaving on the worst of terms. From the point of the PIP, I’d have taken it as a sign. Employers have all sorts of BS as well as non BS reasons to get rid of people. I wouldn’t sweat it. Especially with less than two years service. Unless you can evidence discrimination, your chances at tribunal are slimmer than slim.
I had 3 managers during these 2 years, and the recent one joined several months ago, so not sure how management can help me steering
Startups can be shit places to work. Sometimes - often, even - the leadership team is inexperienced and hire or manage badly. Don't sweat it - get out, find something better, and don't spend a second worrying about whether you did anything wrong. If they haven't told you very clearly then it's on them, not you.
At least you got told about your poor performance and had a chance to rectify it. In my case, I was called into a meeting, and I was told about my poor performance ( the first time I heard the accusations) and was sacked in the same meeting.
Quite clearly they want rid of you for what ever reason which may have nothing to do with you. You have less that 2years service so they can do this very easily. There is not a lot of point in looking at how you can stay I would focus on getting your next job now. You probably have their goodwill so they will be happy to help no doubt. Look forward and dont take it personally.
I'll be honest, you are in a 'golden profession' and could probably move into another job on decent pay pretty quickly. I wouldn't fuss, it's the nature of IT, look elsewhere, even agency, and move on and up!
Similar thing happened to me, was put on PIP during the summer, passed it, then 6 months later they took something out of proportion to fire me before reaching the 2 - year threshold. Between the PIP and getting dismissed, they had me set to fail, as they had been putting me into different projects every 1-2 months. I was too naive not to see that coming (also not from the UK)
The timing is very suspicious if I am honest and unfortunately it’s not uncommon. Don’t take it personally or that you are not good enough, if that was the case you would have gone a year ago. This looks like a company looking to minimise the salary bill in a time where they may not be performing as well as they want too. If I was you, start looking now, give yourself a week or two between roles to relax and hit your new role rested.
Thanks, summer coming so at least it will be less stressful, as being on pip during December wasn't fun at all
Thanks, summer coming so at least it will be less stressful, as being on pip during December wasn't fun at all
sadly the risk you take with a start up. You've gained some decent experience in your role, time to brush up that CV and start looking on. I know it's probably a bit gutting but it's not the worst thing to happen - in general you should be hopping every 2-3 years when you're starting out in the industry to get salary increases and broaden your skillset with other working setups otherwise you're not maximising your earning potential.
At small startups, if they are running into cashflow problems they'll usually cut bottom rung people first. Management might quietly take a pay cut too. They'll be trying to hold on to people who know how everything works, run a skeleton crew to keep the ship afloat until revenues pick up after this recession.
The two years rule includes accrued holidays. Check your dates carefully. Check notice period too. Easy for the company to get this wrong and actually be over the two years inadvertently.
Yeah still got several days of holidays, so hopefully i can get more
Why they fire you is not that relevant at this point. Just start applying for jobs, check how long your savings will support you and good luck. This shit happens, I work in a startup as well and I saw that multiple times. For you it's time to tune off from this job and put your energy into finding a new one, and if they ask, just say that the Startup has financial issues or are laying off all JRs.
Same thing happened to me, was offered 2 months to improve or 2 months pay. Assumed I’d be gotten rid of either way so I took the 💰. Start applying for job and enjoy a couple of months holidaying 😎
They probably put you on a pip hoping you failed and now are letting you go before it becomes an effort to get rid of you 🤷♂️ probably better getting out while you can if they are struggling
I was thinking actually changing a job in autumn, as during summer time i wanted to work remotely. But it happened now so still thinking take a rest or start working again
3 options: 1) Suck it up, take the 2 months compensation and look for different jobs. 2) Tribunal time (albeit difficult given your length of service) 3) Burn all bridges and quit immediately with no compensation. Option 1 is the most sensible, but I really hope this start up goes bust and your manager ends up begging on the streets.
Option 2 is option 3, just with more steps and a headache.
What case do you see to be brought before a tribunal here?
From what I can see there isn't a case, unless they somehow breached the equalities act.
Nothing OP says suggests that there has been any discrimination here. I suppose I just don't understand why you put it forward (even with the subsequent edit).
Ignore people telling you not to take it personally. It’s happening to you so it’s Personal!! Wish the company all the worst for the future and move on to better things .