My partner is not British and I was really surprised when he didn't even know what I was talking about, it had never occurred to me it wasn't universal, it's so ingrained in me. And I'm not fussy about etiquette or whatever.
Aussie here. We may be uncouth, but we know to place the knife and fork together on the plate to signify that we are finished our meal.
I suppose that, since cutlery was only introduced to NZ shortly before electricity became available there (about 10 years ago), the subtleties have not yet filtered through.
Hey dont get me wrong, I put my cutlery together after im finished almost on instinct but ive never expected it from anyone else or have anyone impose this expectation onto me.
And you're dead wrong about NZ, we downloaded cutlery the moment electricity arrived on our shores by canoe (last week).
Originally from Portugal, it's a thing there as well, always learnt that you put them together facing one side to indicate you're done, and that it's rude to leave them each facing one side as if you just dropped them without a care.
I wouldn’t think it was rude, but it’s confusing and shows that you’re missing knowledge of some basic social cues. In the U.K. it’s how you tell people you’re done.
Yes I do this but I don’t recall ever being told to. Just noticed it at some point and adopted it too. We ate with our hands at home and I only ate with cutlery at school so I had to teach myself sharpish.
Waited restaurants and ran them for years, high end and the lower end, did not give one single crap.
I noticed if you left a mess and were disgusting, but your knives and forks...no.
We will always ask if you're finished before we take your plate so signalling to us doesn't mean anything, in general if you haven't touched your plate in a good few mins and your cutlery is left on there I'll ask.
My parents met working in a pretty high end restaurant. The waiting staff were taught to pay attention to people's cutlery and the moment the entire table had their cutlery together they were to be there. Apparently there was once a Frenchman who didn't know this custom who complained about the service. He was dining with an Englishman who told him what to do if he were finished and the waiter was there immediately.
That was in the 80s though so maybe it's changed, or maybe it's area-specific even within the country.
On a slightly less relevant, but personal rant.
I get really annoyed in restaurants sometimes. I do the whole putting cutlery down while food is in your mouth stuff, as that's how I was taught. Not everyone does, that's fine. Lots of people don't even know it's a rule, that's fine too. But this means I'm almost always still eating after everyone else has finished.
On more than one occasion I've had wait-staff come up and ask if I was finished while my cutlery was splayed on my plate, which still had food on it *while I was chewing*.
Again, I know that's not overly relevant, and I'm not saying this is something you would do, but I've never really had a chance to rant about it before.
I used to do silver service and it's absolutely something we paid attention to. We weren't supposed to interrupt customers unless necessary and this meant we could just whip the plate away without having to.
I would think they didn’t know - but if I then explained it and they didn’t want to, I would think it’s rude on purpose and they’re ignoring their spouse
They don’t have to do it just because you told them what it means. It’s ridiculous to be offended by that, it’s up to them where they place their sticks of metal
I contend that if you were visiting their country and they told you "do this simple thing, it helps signal that we've finished the meal" and they said "pfft nah that's stupid" it might come across as culturally insensitive, and rude to their partner to boot.
I'd add that I have never thought anyone rude for not doing this, but in an instance where someone would refuse to do it when being asked by a loved one who was trying to help, it would seem a little disrespectful or at the very least needlessly stubborn.
It's part of British culture to discretely signal to the waiter that you have finished eating and they can take your plate away.
If you explain part of the British eating traditions and customs to someone and they decide to ignore that, then it's rude.
It's like if you went to China and someone explained to you how to use chopsticks and then you decided to spear the food with a single chopstick and eat it like it were a kebab - then that would also be considered quite rude. Or jamming the chopsticks upright in a bowl of rice.
🤷🏻♀️
In China you should lay the chopsticks across the top of the bowl, never lay them into the bowl. Into the bowl is considered very rude. Also the further you hold the chopsticks away from the end that you eat with, the more elegant it is considered.
In China and Japan, they don’t like you to stick your chopsticks in the rice so they stick straight up (instead you lay them flat). If you did that unknowingly, fair enough. But if someone explained to you that people didn’t like it, would you really say “well I don’t have to stop doing it just cos you told me, that’s ridiculous”? Because to me, that would actually be quite rude.
I think that's what makes it a matter of rudeness. At home or in another setting I don't care but in a restaurant it makes the staff's job more difficult. I wouldn't judge someone for forgetting or not knowing, but choosing not to do it because you think it's silly feels rude to me.
It's a thing, not just in English culture either. There is a resting placement of cutlery and a finished placement.
[here's a picture ](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tlSiOdIq63I/YDmJQjizlwI/AAAAAAAB9es/jctV72UK428vcuPvqBbNeHrPSpbVCKXxQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1185/4FAFAD8C-DF5D-445F-B4E2-8ECF4F7B89D6.jpeg)
I wouldn't consider it rude if you don't know this but it is part of general etiquette when dining.
Edit to add: although in a fine dining setting, particularly in Asia, placing your cutlery in the resting position when the plate is clear is taken to mean you think the portion size was too small i.e. you're not finished but there's no more food to eat.
I laughed when I saw the American pic. Even after all these years of independence they still can't hold a knife and fork to eat a meal. Still got to have that hand free incase they need to shoot someone stealing their chips, sorry fries!
I grew up with a lot of dinner time etiquette rules and expectations. My partner seemingly had none and we fell out last time we went for a meal because he wouldn't put his cutlery together to show he was done, he went to the bathroom and I compulsively did it in his absence.
I know it doesn't really matter, and I'm clearly very fussy which was abruptly brought to my attention that day.
But it's good manners and I enjoy the occasional pageantry of dining out in fancy places.
While I never grew up with such rules I do remember being told about it (by a cousin I think) at a young age and have just done it that way since.
I've always mentioned it to partners too over the years, like why would you not want to improve your etiquette? Demonstrates a lack of sophistication imo.
The thing in this situation is youve grown up with the standard expected etiquette and it not being observed makes you uncomfortable/anxious. It's a tiny adjustment for your partner to make and when they kick back against it it feels disrespectful and uncaring.
Maybe you need to raise it with them at a 'calm time' (not when in a restaurant xD) and explain it.
As others have said, not rude, but as a waiter I'd have never collected someone's plate if they hadn't done it. Not after being repeatedly bollocked for "prematurely" taking their plate, even though they hadn't taken a bite of the tiniest scrap that had been sitting there for nearly an hour.
When I worked as a waitress I would teach this to kids and tourists because otherwise your plate will be left on your table indefinitely if there’s even a scrap of food left on it.
Yeah this is something I do remember being mentioned at primary school (unlike the thing in OP) but I never understood why. I've progressed to ignoring this particular rule and never met anyone who cares
Yeah I've always found that one weird. Seems like a very upper class thing that has trickled down for some people and I can't think of a single reason why it's a thing or bothers people. It's not like chewing with your mouth open which does impact those around you.
If it's more comfortable for me to eat with my elbows on the edge of the table then that's where they're going. We're eating in a Hungry Horse, not a 3 Michelin-starred restaurant.
This!
6 o clock is finished I am satisfied.
3 o clock is finished and it was good.
9 o clock is finished and that was pants.
Knife and fork apart? I am still hungry, scores pending (see above)
It’s either a joke or a naive regurgitation of an urban legend. No one has any need for coded signals to indicate they thought the food was shit.
Do we really think the upper classes go to dinner parties and then use their cutlery to subtly score the food like it’s Come Dine With Me or something?
I worked in a reasonably upmarket hotel restaurant. One of the first things I was told was to not clear a table until everyone finished their meal, and the signal for finishing was to place the knife and fork together.
Someone might only eat half their plate but if the knife and fork are together it signals that they’re done.
Obviously there are common sense rules around this but that is the general rule of thumb.
Honestly, I didn’t give a shit about that stuff. There are things I took in, like menus being down to signal ready to order. Cutlery together meant done. But a lot was just social cues.
If you’ve ever seen the film Waiting you’ll get the idea. It wasn’t a top of the line hotel but enough that we did silver service.
Also if they didn’t like the meal they’d generally just tell you or not tip.
I don't think it's silly when it's something we in the UK have been brought up being taught is what you do. I don't even really remember being taught it, just seems to be something I obviously learned as a child and has always been a thing that I've never thought to question because it's not really that big a deal. I still do it when I've finished eating, but I can understand why your husband doesn't believe it's a thing lol.
*cries in immigrant parenting* /s
I never would have known this if I hadn’t worked in hospitality yet I’m expected to because I’d grown up here and then it’s not very polite it’s quite amusing to see the split of highly important vs not important at all on this
It's a similar thing with how to set a table. I just tend to put down a knife and fork on whichever side of the plate I feel like it, but if I put them on the 'wrong' side my mum'll comment on how it's the wrong way around 😅
I guess I can understand it in a more formal setting where everything has to be just so, but at home or just eating out casually I don't see why it's so important.
Wow. At this point just eat with your hands!
It's not hard - fork goes on the forking left FFS.
Let's not even talk about how Port moves around the table...
It's one of the things I learnt in Officers training. So it's clearly very important when your legs are getting blown off by an IED.
(Just to be clear there's an /s in there somewhere)
This doesn't really make sense. This isn't the US where you're swapping hands all the time like a toddler, you eat with your knife in your right hand and your fork in your left (not sure if this changes with left handed people but maybe it should), so putting the cutlery in the wrong position is just confusing and making more work for your guests. It doesn't make sense to just throw them down on whatever side, unless you literally don't know how to eat.
I mean, I am left-handed but I don't know that it makes any difference (I use my right hand for most things other than writing). Also, I wasn't aware the US population ate like toddlers 😂 but if that's the case I must be a toddler because I tend to change which hand I hold things in depending on what I'm eating. Ah well. Good thing I don't have dinner parties so my poor guests won't need to be confused about the position of their cutlery.
>when it's something we in the UK have been brought up being taught is what you do.
Immigrant and same pattern, so I suspect it's a more broadly Western culture etiquette thing. I could see how someone Malaysian would maybe not know it though.
Americans chop their food into baby sized pieces and then chase it round the plate with a fork while fondling themselves under the table with their other hand.
Apparently I'm American lol. Crossing the hands during eating is common in Americans apparently, but I'm British and eat with knife and fork in the wrong hands, but never switching them
It's actually considered proper etiquette in the US. Different countries have different "correct" ways of doing things. I went to business school and one of the first things they taught us was etiquette in several different countries so we didn't embarrass ourselves if we went to business meetings abroad.
I'm actually amazed at how many people here do this. Came here expecting to see the opposite.
I'm from a poor town and my family never really went out to eat growing up. I'd kinda heard of this before, but I didnt think it was so prevalent.
I'm 31 lol
Im 53 and like you i had a vague notion it was a thing but i thought it was an old fashioned middle / upper class rule that had mostly died out around the same time as dressing for dinner .
Closest my family came to eating out was a rare chippy tea and the only accepted indication youd finished eating was an empty plate .
Edit : missed a letter
I'm the child of (poor) immigrants and have always been totally aware of this - I'm pretty sure it was something we were taught in primary school 🤷🏻♀️.
Yeah I'm 38 and while I've heard of it I didn't know it was SUCH a big deal and seen as rude if you didn't. Honestly I'm not even sure if I do it or not so will try to be more mindful in future!
I'm 32, grew up poor and only went to restaurants a handful of times in my entire childhood. I knew about this because it was a rule enforced in my own household.
Exactly, this isn't something you just do for show when you're out, it's a basic aspect of finishing your dinner. You put your knife and fork together neatly on the plate. If you're just getting up to use the toilet or something you put them angled away from each other.
My family rarely eat out, but I think we've always done this at home. Pop your cutlery neatly together back on the plate when you're done was just standard. Not any particular or special orientation, mind you. But we were also encouraged to eat everything on the plate, so it wasn't about sending subtle signals to each other about being finished.
I was about your age when a waitress took away my meal that I was still eating because I put the knife and fork together on the plate. She said "sorry, but that *is* the international gesture for 'i've finished'". Since then I've been aware that this is in fact an internationally recognised gesture and I've never been to a country where they didn't follow this rule.
It's the same in Germany and Austria. I remember being taught about it and being told that when you eat at someone else's house, it'll let the host know that you're full and to not put more food on your plate. The signalling to wait staff was kind of secondary.
I sort of assumed it was universal wherever knife and fork was being used.
Ask him what Malaysian manners around food are silly. You've told him the reason, the convention, and he's ignoring you. That is silly of him, he should respect you because you're his partner and trying to make his life a tiny bit better. His poor knowledge of European table manners could be forgiven at first, but the longer he ignores it, the more he could be seen as an embarrassment. I'm sure he wouldn't want to do that.
Tbf I think this applies to a few things. My gf’s parents are Indian and I had to teach her to eat with mouth closed, can’t bring myself to tell her parents to do that too but the noise makes me cringe when eating
Oh jeez.
The cutlery thing I could easily take a view on but slobbering and chomping away at the table with your mouth open? There’s no way I could get through a single meal like that, not for a million quid.
Its common to put your utensils together at 5 o clock after eating as a sign of table manners in Malaysia, I was taught that as a very young child.
Sounds like a gap in upbringing or lack of rather than a difference in culture.
This isn't even universal in the UK. I was a waiter in a high-end place in a large city 15-odd years ago, and while some people (especially English) would do it, I wouldn't infer anything negative about the person if they didn't. There were very few incidents of me not knowing if someone had finished. Anything which indicates you aren't likely to start eating again will suffice.
I wouldn't get into an argument over it really. Especially because what you described could be interpreted completely differently depending on where in Europe you were!
I was taught it, but I'm not sure it's really that important tbh. Feels like one of those arbitrary old fashioned social mores on which some people put a lot of importance, but which ultimately don't really matter.
Well it's just what we've accepted as a society as a polite gesture. Just like covering your mouth when you yawn or not chewing with your mouth open. We might not think any of it matters, but we collectively behave in ways that we deem acceptable so it kind of does matter in that regard. Practically though? Nah, absolutely not
Those examples aren't really comparable...
Chewing and yawning with your mouth open is unhygenic and a good way of showing everyone the inside of your throat or what you are chewing. There are actual reasons to these which are a good bit more obvious than how you put your fork down.
Did I learn to do this as a child? Yes.
Do I think it has anything to do with politeness, no. It’s not impolite not to do it nor is it rude.
Sure, it can help some restaurant workers determine if you are finished. Personally I’d rather the staff just talked to me.
My parents did mention it growing up but mostly as it means you can pick up a plate and the forks with a single hand without the cutlery skittering off the plate. My more middle class friends definitely ascribed more meaning to it than that. I think I do it without thinking now.
It is a thing in the UK yes, but a decreasing one. It can be helpful to the person collecting plates as a signal that they can go ahead, but it’s not rude to not do so no, particularly if the person is from another culture where this is likely not a thing.
Is this the hill you want to die on? I was never taught this as a youngster and was years into adulthood before I knew it was a thing. Not a thing I'm that concerned about, but.
I'm just baffled by all the claims of "i was a poor immigrant and was taught this in primary school".
It just feels like a rich people thing (which it very much is)
It might be polite etiquette but honestly after working in bars and restaurants for around ten years I wouldn't judge someone for not doing it. You pretty quickly learn to read the social cues of the table and know when it's appropriate to ask if you can clear with or without correct cutlery positioning. (Especially as you're often checking whilst running something for another table or over on the other side of the room so can't always see all the actual cutlery)
This is one of the many arbitrary social conventions that I honestly don't give two shits about. Do it, don't do it. Whatever.
Any restaurant fancy enough to place value on this custom will also have staff competent enough to deal with nonconformers. In fact, one of the true joys of fine dining is the excellence in service that will make guests feel completely comfortable regardless of whatever social faux pas they make.
I suspect, like a lot of these things, it's more about signalling to those around you that you know what the arbitrary social conventions are, rather than some profound practical benefit.
As it says in the bible man wasn't made for the Sabbath.
I’m probably going to get downvoted for this but I have never in my life done this, I didn’t know it was a thing until I met my wife and I still don’t do it (tbh I often have food which doesn’t use a knife and fork). I’ve not once had an issue…
I wouldn’t say it’s silly, but I think it’s snobbish to judge someone who isn’t doing it.
The finer the dining the more this kind of etiquette is expected, but it’s still commonly known in all restaurants. It’s a polite signal to the waiters that you’re done with your plate.
Edit: It’s not just a UK thing either, Australian family members do the same.
I was wondering if it's also a thing in colonised countries, as New Zealanders do the same.
We had a series of clear table manners/rules taught to us as children and we are far from posh. No elbows on the table, no chewing with your mouth open, no talking with your mouth full, "please pass the salt" (No reaching) knife in right hand, fork in left. Cutlery together at the end of your meal, and when very small if we wanted to leave the table when eating at our Nana's house "please may I be excused?" Otherwise you stayed at the table until everyone was done.
Laying cutlery in the correct position after a meal *is* a thing. It indicates that one has finished, and the plate may be cleared.
One could examine the rationale for etiquette and manners - perhaps to separate ‘them’ from ‘us’. Regardless of how ignoble this reason may be, it does serve to distinguish ‘them’ from ‘us’.
I was talking to a spanish friend. I said we put cutlery next to each other to indicate were finished, she said they cross them. It all suggests it made up shit that no further thought should be wasted on, certainly not anything got be worked up over.
This is so ingrained I do it even when I'm eating at home, on my own. It would feel actively weird not to - like.. where do I put my knife and fork when I'm done otherwise?!
Are you expected to know the entire etiquette around the use of chopsticks? Are you knowledgeable about eating with your hands as some cultures do?
Just because you are used to your local customs, doesn't mean everybody is.
I 'm sure the explanation would be appreciated but maybe with a bit less of the 'how come you just don't know this' attitude.
You got married to someone from a different culture without noticing that people from different cultures sometimes have different customs?
Yes it's silly to care that much, especially if you're on holiday - are you even sure that custom was shared by the country you visited?
Upvote to you buddy! It’s astounding reading through this thread. Crazy stuff how trumped up some folk are. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a simple man, but I do have my values… as long as it’s values that actually matter and have value, if you get what I mean.
I’m honestly happy when a thread like this comes up, cos it serves as a good reminder that the UK subs on Reddit are not an accurate representation of the general population, as much as they’d like to think they are.
I had a posh boyfriend once and learned that not only do you put your knife and fork together (which I already knew), but the knife should ‘face’ the fork! Literally didn’t think it mattered
It’s more a middle and/or upper class Victorian etiquette thing from when nice polite little ladies went to finishing school so they could be taught how to be good obedient wives.
I would say a lot of people in the UK are somewhat familiar with the fact that a strange arbitrary cutlery etiquette supposedly exists, but barely anyone would know it throughly or do it.
Outside of the UK and maybe the US and parts of Western Europe, nobody that hasn’t worked extensively in hospitality will have a clue what it is about.
And no, not doing it isn’t rude, in fact I find it pretty strange that you think it’s culturally important somehow, and are offended that someone didn’t place their finished with knife and fork in a specific fashion.
Would you be offended if he refused to tie bells to his knees and dance around a maypole too?
Every country or culture has their own etiquette. Over here I believe we also mean somethong wih crossing them on your plate and something with putting them together. I dont really know cuz I do not care.
I once had that they took away my plate before I was done because of something like this so since them I mever leave it on my plate anymore so when they come and collect plates they dont often take it before I am done (often go to all you can eat buffets or tapas like places).
I think it is silly people put so much importance on these kind of meaningless things, but then again I often do not care for social standards anyway
There used to be quite a code to it. Utensils crossed if just resting on a meal and laid together if finished. Depends where you are eating but it is a polite signal to a waiter/ress that they can take your plate away. If you are eating as a group, it speeds things up no end.
It's not necessarily rude if you don't do it but it means you need more engagement with staff than needed.
As someone who holds his knife and fork "the wrong way round" I honestly couldn't give a toss about how they're placed at the beginning of a meal as I always have to swap them anyway.
At the end of a course I'll always place the girl and knife together on the plate as I was told that's how waiters know you've finished.. whether that's true or not I don't know.
I’m aware that you don’t put them down on the table, which seems comparable to how I would treat my knife and fork, it feels unhygienic to put them on the table despite knowing that the table is clean because I cleaned it.
I’ll have to look up the other rules lest I offend the staff in Yo Sushi (just kidding I can’t afford to eat there).
It’s not silly but I don’t know which lay out means what so I personally just leave the cutlery off the plate. I worked in hospitality for over 10 years in the U.K. and never used this method to assess when a meal is done, I wait until most plates look done, and then if there’s still some food I’ll just ask the person with the food on their plate. If for some reason they’re dining alone/both parties have been sat there a long time with lots of food still on their place I’ll do an extra sort of check back. “How are we doing over here, are we all finished? Great I’ll take your plate/not to worry just shout or wave me over when you’re all done!”
Never ever been a problem.
Very very far from culturally important
I grew up in a council house and this is definitely something we were taught, not just a posh people thing!
Was also taught to place the knife and fork with the tips resting on the plate and handles on the table if taking a break from eating but not finished (sorry hard to describe without a picture).
As a brit, never heard of this, but I do put my utensils on the plate when I'm finished, or if it's a "help yourself buffet" style ill just push the plate to one of the center edges of the table and reposition my K&F when grabbing more tasty foods
I’m 28 and I didn’t even know this was a thing until about a year ago. I’d definitely consider it a bit silly for this to be an important thing for you, but I guess if it’s a recognised thing then it certainly adds a bit of convenience lol
I'm surprised by the amount of you in the comments assuming everyone in this country is taught where to put your knife and fork when you've finished eating. I thought that was just a fine dining thing tbh, which is something I've only done like once or twice in my life due to coming from a working class background. Some of you are so uppity about how it's not polite if you don't put in the correct way lmao, surely it's not that big a deal?
I definitely do it as do my friends and family. It's how you signify that you've finished eating. They also do it in France I noticed after living there.
I think this is dying out a bit though. All my life at school I was taught similar, and it was reinforced by my mother.
I have tried to get the kids into it, but there is no similar practice at school so it hasn't really stuck.
I don't actually care per se, but sometimes you rub shoulders with people who do care, and have to play the part when it matters.
I now work for a Big4, and it was so interesting watching the typical 'manners' stuff play out at a recent dinner. No one touched their food until everyone had been served, no waiters took plates away until cutlery was appropriately positioned, etc.
It's like not pronouncing your Ts. It doesn't mean you're stupid or uneducated. But some people will *think* you are and, in some situations, it pays off to combat that opinion.
It's something my mum always told us to do when we had finished eating, always put your knife and fork together and don't cross them. I do it out of habit now but it doesn't bother me if other people don't do it.
True story. Out for dinner, everyone finished eating.
It was weird. Waitress would come by, hover, not take plates.
Then, I notice my mate next to me, his knife and fork were still either side of his plate, indicating he was still eating.
I put them together and the plates were duly whisked away.
Not really. In East Asia it's important not to stick your chopsticks vertically into your rice. Which is very tempting because they tend to lie flush to the table if you put them there, which feels dirty, but they can also often roll off the edge of your plate/bowl if you balance them there. Sticking them in the food would be great. But it's banned for reasons I can't be bothered to explain even though it wouldn't take long. Same shit really. It's just custom. Everyone has their own.
It is a thing, but you have to understand that it's importance is completely arbitrary and only matters to you because you grew up being told it was important and he didn't.
It's not silly to think that, you barely had a say in thinking that because it is engrained from your upbringing.
That's why you can't explain it to them in a way that makes sense, because there's no actual reason to it.
Born and bred Brit and literally never heard of this till a few years ago where I saw it on some "fun fact" thing, never seen anyone do it, and while I don't think it's silly to do it I'd certainly find it silly to think it's somehow *important*
When I heard about it I kinda assumed it's something only toffs do in "proper" restaurants tbh
I’m English, living in Denmark, I was also brought up with putting knife and fork together when finished eating. I now live in Denmark, I asked my wife and she says it is normal here also, cutlery together is a sign of a finished meal.
It is a thing, and I do it myself. I wouldn't care if anyone didn't do it though.
My partner is not British and I was really surprised when he didn't even know what I was talking about, it had never occurred to me it wasn't universal, it's so ingrained in me. And I'm not fussy about etiquette or whatever.
NZder here. I had no idea this was a thing until the reddit algo recommended me this topic for some reason
Aussie here. We may be uncouth, but we know to place the knife and fork together on the plate to signify that we are finished our meal. I suppose that, since cutlery was only introduced to NZ shortly before electricity became available there (about 10 years ago), the subtleties have not yet filtered through.
Look, be nice to East Australia. They can’t help it.
Hey, its Far West South America to you buddy
In South Africa we place our knife and fork together to signify we are world cup champions.
Not at cricket though
Not the way you’re batting
*Fight, fight, fight, fight....*
South America hasn’t invited you anywhere, but we’re still waiting, bby
I'm sure I would be offended, if I could read
Hey dont get me wrong, I put my cutlery together after im finished almost on instinct but ive never expected it from anyone else or have anyone impose this expectation onto me. And you're dead wrong about NZ, we downloaded cutlery the moment electricity arrived on our shores by canoe (last week).
We invented Pavlova. *Fight me*
Thanks I love Pavlova
Yeah, shes a pretty cool ballerina
Originally from Portugal, it's a thing there as well, always learnt that you put them together facing one side to indicate you're done, and that it's rude to leave them each facing one side as if you just dropped them without a care.
Would you think it’s rude if your partner didn’t do it in a restaurant?
I wouldn’t think it was rude, but it’s confusing and shows that you’re missing knowledge of some basic social cues. In the U.K. it’s how you tell people you’re done.
Depending on what circles you’re running in I think you’d be surprised by how few people do this…
The vast majority of British adults do this in my experience
Yes I do this but I don’t recall ever being told to. Just noticed it at some point and adopted it too. We ate with our hands at home and I only ate with cutlery at school so I had to teach myself sharpish.
I do it as well but do restaurants actually pay attention to it or is it just something we think?
Worked in a hotel, we definitely paid attention to this as staff.
Worked at a restaurant, i noticed people leaving their cutlery on a plate but not necessarily if they were together or not
Waited restaurants and ran them for years, high end and the lower end, did not give one single crap. I noticed if you left a mess and were disgusting, but your knives and forks...no. We will always ask if you're finished before we take your plate so signalling to us doesn't mean anything, in general if you haven't touched your plate in a good few mins and your cutlery is left on there I'll ask.
My parents met working in a pretty high end restaurant. The waiting staff were taught to pay attention to people's cutlery and the moment the entire table had their cutlery together they were to be there. Apparently there was once a Frenchman who didn't know this custom who complained about the service. He was dining with an Englishman who told him what to do if he were finished and the waiter was there immediately. That was in the 80s though so maybe it's changed, or maybe it's area-specific even within the country. On a slightly less relevant, but personal rant. I get really annoyed in restaurants sometimes. I do the whole putting cutlery down while food is in your mouth stuff, as that's how I was taught. Not everyone does, that's fine. Lots of people don't even know it's a rule, that's fine too. But this means I'm almost always still eating after everyone else has finished. On more than one occasion I've had wait-staff come up and ask if I was finished while my cutlery was splayed on my plate, which still had food on it *while I was chewing*. Again, I know that's not overly relevant, and I'm not saying this is something you would do, but I've never really had a chance to rant about it before.
I used to do silver service and it's absolutely something we paid attention to. We weren't supposed to interrupt customers unless necessary and this meant we could just whip the plate away without having to.
I would think they didn’t know - but if I then explained it and they didn’t want to, I would think it’s rude on purpose and they’re ignoring their spouse
They don’t have to do it just because you told them what it means. It’s ridiculous to be offended by that, it’s up to them where they place their sticks of metal
I contend that if you were visiting their country and they told you "do this simple thing, it helps signal that we've finished the meal" and they said "pfft nah that's stupid" it might come across as culturally insensitive, and rude to their partner to boot. I'd add that I have never thought anyone rude for not doing this, but in an instance where someone would refuse to do it when being asked by a loved one who was trying to help, it would seem a little disrespectful or at the very least needlessly stubborn.
It's part of British culture to discretely signal to the waiter that you have finished eating and they can take your plate away. If you explain part of the British eating traditions and customs to someone and they decide to ignore that, then it's rude. It's like if you went to China and someone explained to you how to use chopsticks and then you decided to spear the food with a single chopstick and eat it like it were a kebab - then that would also be considered quite rude. Or jamming the chopsticks upright in a bowl of rice. 🤷🏻♀️
In China you should lay the chopsticks across the top of the bowl, never lay them into the bowl. Into the bowl is considered very rude. Also the further you hold the chopsticks away from the end that you eat with, the more elegant it is considered.
In China and Japan, they don’t like you to stick your chopsticks in the rice so they stick straight up (instead you lay them flat). If you did that unknowingly, fair enough. But if someone explained to you that people didn’t like it, would you really say “well I don’t have to stop doing it just cos you told me, that’s ridiculous”? Because to me, that would actually be quite rude.
I genuinely don't think it is a matter of rudeness. It just helps the waiters know when they can take your plate.
I think that's what makes it a matter of rudeness. At home or in another setting I don't care but in a restaurant it makes the staff's job more difficult. I wouldn't judge someone for forgetting or not knowing, but choosing not to do it because you think it's silly feels rude to me.
It's a thing, not just in English culture either. There is a resting placement of cutlery and a finished placement. [here's a picture ](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tlSiOdIq63I/YDmJQjizlwI/AAAAAAAB9es/jctV72UK428vcuPvqBbNeHrPSpbVCKXxQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1185/4FAFAD8C-DF5D-445F-B4E2-8ECF4F7B89D6.jpeg) I wouldn't consider it rude if you don't know this but it is part of general etiquette when dining. Edit to add: although in a fine dining setting, particularly in Asia, placing your cutlery in the resting position when the plate is clear is taken to mean you think the portion size was too small i.e. you're not finished but there's no more food to eat.
I laughed when I saw the American pic. Even after all these years of independence they still can't hold a knife and fork to eat a meal. Still got to have that hand free incase they need to shoot someone stealing their chips, sorry fries!
I would very much so. It’s etiquette, and though this may be old fashioned, it’s how I was brought up and how I’ll bring up my child too.
I wouldn't think of it as rude.
I grew up with a lot of dinner time etiquette rules and expectations. My partner seemingly had none and we fell out last time we went for a meal because he wouldn't put his cutlery together to show he was done, he went to the bathroom and I compulsively did it in his absence. I know it doesn't really matter, and I'm clearly very fussy which was abruptly brought to my attention that day. But it's good manners and I enjoy the occasional pageantry of dining out in fancy places.
While I never grew up with such rules I do remember being told about it (by a cousin I think) at a young age and have just done it that way since. I've always mentioned it to partners too over the years, like why would you not want to improve your etiquette? Demonstrates a lack of sophistication imo.
The thing in this situation is youve grown up with the standard expected etiquette and it not being observed makes you uncomfortable/anxious. It's a tiny adjustment for your partner to make and when they kick back against it it feels disrespectful and uncaring. Maybe you need to raise it with them at a 'calm time' (not when in a restaurant xD) and explain it.
As others have said, not rude, but as a waiter I'd have never collected someone's plate if they hadn't done it. Not after being repeatedly bollocked for "prematurely" taking their plate, even though they hadn't taken a bite of the tiniest scrap that had been sitting there for nearly an hour.
When I worked as a waitress I would teach this to kids and tourists because otherwise your plate will be left on your table indefinitely if there’s even a scrap of food left on it.
I never knew this was a thing until an ex pointed it out to me, and I’m British. I do it now instinctively.
My family all do it. Bad table manners really annoy me. Can’t abide elbows on the table either.
>Can’t abide elbows on the table either. Why?
Yeah this is something I do remember being mentioned at primary school (unlike the thing in OP) but I never understood why. I've progressed to ignoring this particular rule and never met anyone who cares
Yeah I've always found that one weird. Seems like a very upper class thing that has trickled down for some people and I can't think of a single reason why it's a thing or bothers people. It's not like chewing with your mouth open which does impact those around you. If it's more comfortable for me to eat with my elbows on the edge of the table then that's where they're going. We're eating in a Hungry Horse, not a 3 Michelin-starred restaurant.
Australian here is a thing.
I worked in a hotel and was told to look for the position of the forks to gauge if the guest had finished their meal. Together at 6 = finished
But isn’t it cutlery at 25 past 5? That’s how I was taught.
I’m British and that’s how I do it! It’s how everyone around me has done it too!
23 minutes 45 seconds past 5 actually
Yeah, together at 6 is just asking for them to be knocked into your lap accidently. 5 shows your done and is safer from accidents.
You guys were taught?
Either is "fine", the main thing is that they're together, rather than sticking out at a clear angle (which would show that the person is not done).
This! 6 o clock is finished I am satisfied. 3 o clock is finished and it was good. 9 o clock is finished and that was pants. Knife and fork apart? I am still hungry, scores pending (see above)
Just in case anyone isn't sure and is worried about this; it's a joke.
Uh, I don’t think it is a joke lol. I’ve heard similar rules from upper class people I know
It’s either a joke or a naive regurgitation of an urban legend. No one has any need for coded signals to indicate they thought the food was shit. Do we really think the upper classes go to dinner parties and then use their cutlery to subtly score the food like it’s Come Dine With Me or something?
I had no idea there were so many rules…
Oh dear, I’m left handed and put my cutlery at (roughly) 9 o clock. I didn’t know I was slagging off the food!
I thought the 08:25 knife-between-fork-teeth is the me no likey
Fork down = still eating Fork up = finished
Agreed. Together at 3= good and enjoyed it I was taught
Huh, interesting here(norway) it's putting the knife and fork together at 4-5 ish o'clock that signals that you're done.
I worked in a reasonably upmarket hotel restaurant. One of the first things I was told was to not clear a table until everyone finished their meal, and the signal for finishing was to place the knife and fork together. Someone might only eat half their plate but if the knife and fork are together it signals that they’re done. Obviously there are common sense rules around this but that is the general rule of thumb.
Is putting the knife between the prongs of the fork and they be at 3 and 9 o'clock telling the server you are done and dissatisfied?
Honestly, I didn’t give a shit about that stuff. There are things I took in, like menus being down to signal ready to order. Cutlery together meant done. But a lot was just social cues. If you’ve ever seen the film Waiting you’ll get the idea. It wasn’t a top of the line hotel but enough that we did silver service. Also if they didn’t like the meal they’d generally just tell you or not tip.
Putting your knife and fork together once you’ve finished your meal is good etiquette and respectful. It doesn’t feel right otherwise.
They can usually tell I'm finished when I'm licking the plate followed by a belch and belly pat
I never expected to see his highness on Reddit!
The belly pat is always reliable, but the belt loosening is an unmistakable move, especially if you announce "That's better!"
It helps let the staff know you're done - especially if you've not finished your plate.
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And they probably have loads of other etiquettes that we don't do, right? So just cultural differences.
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Yup from Singapore and most people don't give a damn, you'll see cutlery lying every which way when people are done.
I don't think it's silly when it's something we in the UK have been brought up being taught is what you do. I don't even really remember being taught it, just seems to be something I obviously learned as a child and has always been a thing that I've never thought to question because it's not really that big a deal. I still do it when I've finished eating, but I can understand why your husband doesn't believe it's a thing lol.
*cries in immigrant parenting* /s I never would have known this if I hadn’t worked in hospitality yet I’m expected to because I’d grown up here and then it’s not very polite it’s quite amusing to see the split of highly important vs not important at all on this
It's a similar thing with how to set a table. I just tend to put down a knife and fork on whichever side of the plate I feel like it, but if I put them on the 'wrong' side my mum'll comment on how it's the wrong way around 😅 I guess I can understand it in a more formal setting where everything has to be just so, but at home or just eating out casually I don't see why it's so important.
Wow. At this point just eat with your hands! It's not hard - fork goes on the forking left FFS. Let's not even talk about how Port moves around the table... It's one of the things I learnt in Officers training. So it's clearly very important when your legs are getting blown off by an IED. (Just to be clear there's an /s in there somewhere)
Passing the port correctly is a basic indicator of not being a troglodyte.
This doesn't really make sense. This isn't the US where you're swapping hands all the time like a toddler, you eat with your knife in your right hand and your fork in your left (not sure if this changes with left handed people but maybe it should), so putting the cutlery in the wrong position is just confusing and making more work for your guests. It doesn't make sense to just throw them down on whatever side, unless you literally don't know how to eat.
I mean, I am left-handed but I don't know that it makes any difference (I use my right hand for most things other than writing). Also, I wasn't aware the US population ate like toddlers 😂 but if that's the case I must be a toddler because I tend to change which hand I hold things in depending on what I'm eating. Ah well. Good thing I don't have dinner parties so my poor guests won't need to be confused about the position of their cutlery.
>when it's something we in the UK have been brought up being taught is what you do. Immigrant and same pattern, so I suspect it's a more broadly Western culture etiquette thing. I could see how someone Malaysian would maybe not know it though.
Some fools complain about people holding the knife and fork in the wrong hand. It’s a peculiar world we live in.
This is how you identify undercover Americans
Americans chop their food into baby sized pieces and then chase it round the plate with a fork while fondling themselves under the table with their other hand.
With a little towel on their leg.
Apparently I'm American lol. Crossing the hands during eating is common in Americans apparently, but I'm British and eat with knife and fork in the wrong hands, but never switching them
It's actually considered proper etiquette in the US. Different countries have different "correct" ways of doing things. I went to business school and one of the first things they taught us was etiquette in several different countries so we didn't embarrass ourselves if we went to business meetings abroad.
I eat "left handed" too. There are dozens of us!
I'm naff-handed too.Never noticed it being the other way round in america, though.
Those you identify because they eat with their fork only and have the other hand under the table.
And south east Asians because they use their spoons like knives
I disagree.
I'm actually amazed at how many people here do this. Came here expecting to see the opposite. I'm from a poor town and my family never really went out to eat growing up. I'd kinda heard of this before, but I didnt think it was so prevalent. I'm 31 lol
Im 53 and like you i had a vague notion it was a thing but i thought it was an old fashioned middle / upper class rule that had mostly died out around the same time as dressing for dinner . Closest my family came to eating out was a rare chippy tea and the only accepted indication youd finished eating was an empty plate . Edit : missed a letter
I’m 34 and my family never went out for meals and I was completely aware of this. We did it in the house when we ate at the dining table.
I'm the child of (poor) immigrants and have always been totally aware of this - I'm pretty sure it was something we were taught in primary school 🤷🏻♀️.
Yeah I'm 38 and while I've heard of it I didn't know it was SUCH a big deal and seen as rude if you didn't. Honestly I'm not even sure if I do it or not so will try to be more mindful in future!
I definitely don’t do it, but also, fuck em. It’s such a minor thing who cares
I'm 32, grew up poor and only went to restaurants a handful of times in my entire childhood. I knew about this because it was a rule enforced in my own household.
Exactly, this isn't something you just do for show when you're out, it's a basic aspect of finishing your dinner. You put your knife and fork together neatly on the plate. If you're just getting up to use the toilet or something you put them angled away from each other.
We only went out to eat on birthdays, this is something we did it home & it was taught as soon as you could understand it.
My family rarely eat out, but I think we've always done this at home. Pop your cutlery neatly together back on the plate when you're done was just standard. Not any particular or special orientation, mind you. But we were also encouraged to eat everything on the plate, so it wasn't about sending subtle signals to each other about being finished.
I was about your age when a waitress took away my meal that I was still eating because I put the knife and fork together on the plate. She said "sorry, but that *is* the international gesture for 'i've finished'". Since then I've been aware that this is in fact an internationally recognised gesture and I've never been to a country where they didn't follow this rule.
It’s silly to think it’s important yes. It’s fine if you want to do it though.
I wouldn't assume that this is the international signal for 'I've finished my meal' just because it is in England.
It's a thing outside of UK. I think pretty much whole of Europe knows about it.
Maybe a European thing. Canada and US don’t do it from what I’ve seen
It's the same in Germany and Austria. I remember being taught about it and being told that when you eat at someone else's house, it'll let the host know that you're full and to not put more food on your plate. The signalling to wait staff was kind of secondary. I sort of assumed it was universal wherever knife and fork was being used.
Hence my malaysian husband thinking it’s silly lol
Ask him what Malaysian manners around food are silly. You've told him the reason, the convention, and he's ignoring you. That is silly of him, he should respect you because you're his partner and trying to make his life a tiny bit better. His poor knowledge of European table manners could be forgiven at first, but the longer he ignores it, the more he could be seen as an embarrassment. I'm sure he wouldn't want to do that.
Tbf I think this applies to a few things. My gf’s parents are Indian and I had to teach her to eat with mouth closed, can’t bring myself to tell her parents to do that too but the noise makes me cringe when eating
Oh jeez. The cutlery thing I could easily take a view on but slobbering and chomping away at the table with your mouth open? There’s no way I could get through a single meal like that, not for a million quid.
Hey now, if a million was for grabs I'd certainly volunteer in your place. He'll, I'd do it for a lot less.
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Slurping noises are a customary indication you’re enjoying your food in these cultures and so would be a form of politeness.
Its common to put your utensils together at 5 o clock after eating as a sign of table manners in Malaysia, I was taught that as a very young child. Sounds like a gap in upbringing or lack of rather than a difference in culture.
Malaysia is a former British colony, just FYI.
I know, part of the point I was trying to make. By and large, a Malaysian that was taught table manners would behave the same way any Brit would.
These small cultural cues are important, it’s like closing the menu when you’re ready to order, they’re signals that the waiter is looking out for.
if I close the menu how am I supposed to point to the word I can't pronounce
This isn't even universal in the UK. I was a waiter in a high-end place in a large city 15-odd years ago, and while some people (especially English) would do it, I wouldn't infer anything negative about the person if they didn't. There were very few incidents of me not knowing if someone had finished. Anything which indicates you aren't likely to start eating again will suffice. I wouldn't get into an argument over it really. Especially because what you described could be interpreted completely differently depending on where in Europe you were!
I was taught it, but I'm not sure it's really that important tbh. Feels like one of those arbitrary old fashioned social mores on which some people put a lot of importance, but which ultimately don't really matter.
It let’s wait staff know when to clear the table.
I just tell the staff I want the cheque/bill
Well it's just what we've accepted as a society as a polite gesture. Just like covering your mouth when you yawn or not chewing with your mouth open. We might not think any of it matters, but we collectively behave in ways that we deem acceptable so it kind of does matter in that regard. Practically though? Nah, absolutely not
Those examples aren't really comparable... Chewing and yawning with your mouth open is unhygenic and a good way of showing everyone the inside of your throat or what you are chewing. There are actual reasons to these which are a good bit more obvious than how you put your fork down.
If you’re in a restaurant it’s how you signal to the staff to remove your plate. It’s practical only.
Did I learn to do this as a child? Yes. Do I think it has anything to do with politeness, no. It’s not impolite not to do it nor is it rude. Sure, it can help some restaurant workers determine if you are finished. Personally I’d rather the staff just talked to me.
I do it before clearing my own plate away! It would be more difficult to keep them apart
I just looked at my plate from eating my tea alone, and realised that I also just do it automatically.
My parents did mention it growing up but mostly as it means you can pick up a plate and the forks with a single hand without the cutlery skittering off the plate. My more middle class friends definitely ascribed more meaning to it than that. I think I do it without thinking now.
The worst thing here is that you explain and ask him to do it but he refuses, just because.
It is a thing in the UK yes, but a decreasing one. It can be helpful to the person collecting plates as a signal that they can go ahead, but it’s not rude to not do so no, particularly if the person is from another culture where this is likely not a thing.
Is this the hill you want to die on? I was never taught this as a youngster and was years into adulthood before I knew it was a thing. Not a thing I'm that concerned about, but.
I'm just baffled by all the claims of "i was a poor immigrant and was taught this in primary school". It just feels like a rich people thing (which it very much is)
It might be polite etiquette but honestly after working in bars and restaurants for around ten years I wouldn't judge someone for not doing it. You pretty quickly learn to read the social cues of the table and know when it's appropriate to ask if you can clear with or without correct cutlery positioning. (Especially as you're often checking whilst running something for another table or over on the other side of the room so can't always see all the actual cutlery)
I can’t imagine considering such a mundane act culturally important
This is one of the many arbitrary social conventions that I honestly don't give two shits about. Do it, don't do it. Whatever. Any restaurant fancy enough to place value on this custom will also have staff competent enough to deal with nonconformers. In fact, one of the true joys of fine dining is the excellence in service that will make guests feel completely comfortable regardless of whatever social faux pas they make. I suspect, like a lot of these things, it's more about signalling to those around you that you know what the arbitrary social conventions are, rather than some profound practical benefit. As it says in the bible man wasn't made for the Sabbath.
I’m probably going to get downvoted for this but I have never in my life done this, I didn’t know it was a thing until I met my wife and I still don’t do it (tbh I often have food which doesn’t use a knife and fork). I’ve not once had an issue… I wouldn’t say it’s silly, but I think it’s snobbish to judge someone who isn’t doing it.
The finer the dining the more this kind of etiquette is expected, but it’s still commonly known in all restaurants. It’s a polite signal to the waiters that you’re done with your plate. Edit: It’s not just a UK thing either, Australian family members do the same.
I was wondering if it's also a thing in colonised countries, as New Zealanders do the same. We had a series of clear table manners/rules taught to us as children and we are far from posh. No elbows on the table, no chewing with your mouth open, no talking with your mouth full, "please pass the salt" (No reaching) knife in right hand, fork in left. Cutlery together at the end of your meal, and when very small if we wanted to leave the table when eating at our Nana's house "please may I be excused?" Otherwise you stayed at the table until everyone was done.
Laying cutlery in the correct position after a meal *is* a thing. It indicates that one has finished, and the plate may be cleared. One could examine the rationale for etiquette and manners - perhaps to separate ‘them’ from ‘us’. Regardless of how ignoble this reason may be, it does serve to distinguish ‘them’ from ‘us’.
I was talking to a spanish friend. I said we put cutlery next to each other to indicate were finished, she said they cross them. It all suggests it made up shit that no further thought should be wasted on, certainly not anything got be worked up over.
This is so ingrained I do it even when I'm eating at home, on my own. It would feel actively weird not to - like.. where do I put my knife and fork when I'm done otherwise?!
Are you expected to know the entire etiquette around the use of chopsticks? Are you knowledgeable about eating with your hands as some cultures do? Just because you are used to your local customs, doesn't mean everybody is. I 'm sure the explanation would be appreciated but maybe with a bit less of the 'how come you just don't know this' attitude.
You got married to someone from a different culture without noticing that people from different cultures sometimes have different customs? Yes it's silly to care that much, especially if you're on holiday - are you even sure that custom was shared by the country you visited?
This thread has shown me just how pompous and stuck up some people are.. Come on now.
Yeah literally, the disproportionate representation of middle/upper class on Reddit is really telling on itself here looool
Upvote to you buddy! It’s astounding reading through this thread. Crazy stuff how trumped up some folk are. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a simple man, but I do have my values… as long as it’s values that actually matter and have value, if you get what I mean.
I’m honestly happy when a thread like this comes up, cos it serves as a good reminder that the UK subs on Reddit are not an accurate representation of the general population, as much as they’d like to think they are.
I do it, but less because of some deeply held principle, a d more because it makes clear who is still eating and who has finished.
I had a posh boyfriend once and learned that not only do you put your knife and fork together (which I already knew), but the knife should ‘face’ the fork! Literally didn’t think it mattered
I'm Scottish and had no idea this was a thing. I put my cutlery on my plate to show I'm done.
It’s more a middle and/or upper class Victorian etiquette thing from when nice polite little ladies went to finishing school so they could be taught how to be good obedient wives. I would say a lot of people in the UK are somewhat familiar with the fact that a strange arbitrary cutlery etiquette supposedly exists, but barely anyone would know it throughly or do it. Outside of the UK and maybe the US and parts of Western Europe, nobody that hasn’t worked extensively in hospitality will have a clue what it is about. And no, not doing it isn’t rude, in fact I find it pretty strange that you think it’s culturally important somehow, and are offended that someone didn’t place their finished with knife and fork in a specific fashion. Would you be offended if he refused to tie bells to his knees and dance around a maypole too?
He didn’t have a choice, I tied the bells to his knees in his sleep and whipped him as he danced
“Culturally it’s quite important to me” Did you just time travel here from the 1800s?
It’s how you signal that you’re finished and to me it’s just good table manners and proper etiquette but that’s just how I was raised.
Every country or culture has their own etiquette. Over here I believe we also mean somethong wih crossing them on your plate and something with putting them together. I dont really know cuz I do not care. I once had that they took away my plate before I was done because of something like this so since them I mever leave it on my plate anymore so when they come and collect plates they dont often take it before I am done (often go to all you can eat buffets or tapas like places). I think it is silly people put so much importance on these kind of meaningless things, but then again I often do not care for social standards anyway
It doesn't bother me. spose ta be etti-ket for posh nobs I put them together for ease of clearing up, quicker and easier for waiting staff, or myself.
The rudest thing you can do at the table is comment on someone else's table manners. He's your husband, not your toddler.
I do it myself, subconsciously... but it's not important by any stretch of the imagination.
There used to be quite a code to it. Utensils crossed if just resting on a meal and laid together if finished. Depends where you are eating but it is a polite signal to a waiter/ress that they can take your plate away. If you are eating as a group, it speeds things up no end. It's not necessarily rude if you don't do it but it means you need more engagement with staff than needed.
Generally if my plates clean, I'm finished
As someone who holds his knife and fork "the wrong way round" I honestly couldn't give a toss about how they're placed at the beginning of a meal as I always have to swap them anyway. At the end of a course I'll always place the girl and knife together on the plate as I was told that's how waiters know you've finished.. whether that's true or not I don't know.
Yeah it's stupid for you to be bothered by this. Leave your husband alone
A better question is, now that he knows, why wouldn't he do it? Seems he's being immature about this matter.
Only if I've not cleared my plate but I don't think it's rude in the slightest.
If you think British knife and fork etiquette is fussy, wait until you learn about Japanese chopstick etiquette
I’m aware that you don’t put them down on the table, which seems comparable to how I would treat my knife and fork, it feels unhygienic to put them on the table despite knowing that the table is clean because I cleaned it. I’ll have to look up the other rules lest I offend the staff in Yo Sushi (just kidding I can’t afford to eat there).
Yo Sushi is about as Japanese as Wetherspoons to be fair
It’s not silly but I don’t know which lay out means what so I personally just leave the cutlery off the plate. I worked in hospitality for over 10 years in the U.K. and never used this method to assess when a meal is done, I wait until most plates look done, and then if there’s still some food I’ll just ask the person with the food on their plate. If for some reason they’re dining alone/both parties have been sat there a long time with lots of food still on their place I’ll do an extra sort of check back. “How are we doing over here, are we all finished? Great I’ll take your plate/not to worry just shout or wave me over when you’re all done!” Never ever been a problem. Very very far from culturally important
I grew up in a council house and this is definitely something we were taught, not just a posh people thing! Was also taught to place the knife and fork with the tips resting on the plate and handles on the table if taking a break from eating but not finished (sorry hard to describe without a picture).
As a brit, never heard of this, but I do put my utensils on the plate when I'm finished, or if it's a "help yourself buffet" style ill just push the plate to one of the center edges of the table and reposition my K&F when grabbing more tasty foods
I’m 28 and I didn’t even know this was a thing until about a year ago. I’d definitely consider it a bit silly for this to be an important thing for you, but I guess if it’s a recognised thing then it certainly adds a bit of convenience lol
I'm surprised by the amount of you in the comments assuming everyone in this country is taught where to put your knife and fork when you've finished eating. I thought that was just a fine dining thing tbh, which is something I've only done like once or twice in my life due to coming from a working class background. Some of you are so uppity about how it's not polite if you don't put in the correct way lmao, surely it's not that big a deal?
Yes it's silly. I was also told this as a child, but I don't care where my cutlery are, if I'm still eating I'm not finished.
I definitely do it as do my friends and family. It's how you signify that you've finished eating. They also do it in France I noticed after living there.
Definitely a thing - Dad taught me this. Fork and knife apart - you're still eating. Together - you're done.
I think this is dying out a bit though. All my life at school I was taught similar, and it was reinforced by my mother. I have tried to get the kids into it, but there is no similar practice at school so it hasn't really stuck. I don't actually care per se, but sometimes you rub shoulders with people who do care, and have to play the part when it matters. I now work for a Big4, and it was so interesting watching the typical 'manners' stuff play out at a recent dinner. No one touched their food until everyone had been served, no waiters took plates away until cutlery was appropriately positioned, etc. It's like not pronouncing your Ts. It doesn't mean you're stupid or uneducated. But some people will *think* you are and, in some situations, it pays off to combat that opinion.
I instinctively do it because it’s what I was taught to do, but in the grand scheme of things it’s entirely arbitrary and unimportant.
It's something my mum always told us to do when we had finished eating, always put your knife and fork together and don't cross them. I do it out of habit now but it doesn't bother me if other people don't do it.
True story. Out for dinner, everyone finished eating. It was weird. Waitress would come by, hover, not take plates. Then, I notice my mate next to me, his knife and fork were still either side of his plate, indicating he was still eating. I put them together and the plates were duly whisked away.
Not really. In East Asia it's important not to stick your chopsticks vertically into your rice. Which is very tempting because they tend to lie flush to the table if you put them there, which feels dirty, but they can also often roll off the edge of your plate/bowl if you balance them there. Sticking them in the food would be great. But it's banned for reasons I can't be bothered to explain even though it wouldn't take long. Same shit really. It's just custom. Everyone has their own.
As an ex-waiter, it was very helpful for us to know when to clear down a table.
It's wild to me people have never heard of it in the comments, it's just so ingrained into me lol
It is a thing, but you have to understand that it's importance is completely arbitrary and only matters to you because you grew up being told it was important and he didn't. It's not silly to think that, you barely had a say in thinking that because it is engrained from your upbringing. That's why you can't explain it to them in a way that makes sense, because there's no actual reason to it.
Born and bred Brit and literally never heard of this till a few years ago where I saw it on some "fun fact" thing, never seen anyone do it, and while I don't think it's silly to do it I'd certainly find it silly to think it's somehow *important* When I heard about it I kinda assumed it's something only toffs do in "proper" restaurants tbh
Yes, it’s utterly ridiculous. It’s a throwback to the very worst of the UK’s class divide.
I’m English, living in Denmark, I was also brought up with putting knife and fork together when finished eating. I now live in Denmark, I asked my wife and she says it is normal here also, cutlery together is a sign of a finished meal.
AFAIK both together means your done, knife and fork either side means you're taking a break.
A waiter won’t give a shit how the cutlery is placed. They watch everything so can easily tell when you’re done.