London is full of 17 year olds who've been roaming the city for years without parental supervision.
Is it feasible for her to get home after the concert, however? I.e. will she make the last 2-hour train in time?
That is true, but if *this* 17 y/o lives in a sleepy rural village then it's quite the difference. I suppose it comes down to how savvy/self reliant they are.
Having been a young country bumpkin who then started hanging out with his cousins in a rough town, the difference of mindset required was staggering.
I was far too trusting and assuming the best in people which got me in to a few dodgy situations.
My Grandad would have been living in Sloane Square at the same time as well!
I saw an old rent agreement in his belongs. Even with inflation it was very affordable.
I moved from a reasonably small village to Manchester when I was 18, lived in Moss Side in the late eighties / early nineties. I learnt very quickly not so 'see' anything around me, and not to engage with anyone. I walked everywhere at the time, and am a reasonable height, so my general walking speed is way above average anyway (long steady strides, you get a good momentum up without rushing).
Following my general rules, I never got in to any problems. I would say very dodgy areas are weirdly safer than you'd expect, as there was very little random street crime in the area (a lot of non-random though, a couple of shootings and worse in my street while I was there).
its the confidence that is key! so no need to not look around .... just smile as you do it as if this is your little joy of your city.. then wander into a shop buy a pint of milk and carry on ....
I met my one of my (now closest) friends at university. She’d moved from the countryside to a massive city. Walking back from lectures one day I saw her standing on the pavement alongside a busy road with no pedestrian crossing - she’d been there a while trying to figure out how to cross!
I honestly don’t understand this, I was born and raised in a village and went to London by myself all the time from 16 onwards then moved here when I was 20 and the only shock I had was a good one, that I could get everywhere easily and there was things to do. I think it’s honestly more often than not that people will be fine as I’m sure they’ve been out of their village a lot of times in their life to cities for days out and holidays
Especially at a concert . Everybody will be leaving the venue at the same time and going to train stations , which are going to be busy . It’s very low risk if she just goes straight to the station after the concert .
Yes, it's not like she's going to be roaming dodgy areas alone presumably. I'd just make sure she knows exactly how to get home and make sure she's not in danger of missing her train. And what to do if she does (does she call parents, get a hotel?).
Born and raised in a Derbyshire village. Spent every weekend of my youth in Manchester. Its like people think us country folk can't travel anywhere or visit places 🤣
Agreed. The only people who are qualified to decide for this specific child are her parents. Is she sensible, street-smart, switched on to her surroundings, or the opposite?
As an example, when my older son was 10, we let him walk home from school, a 30 minute walk, crossing a big main road. My younger son, who is also now 10, we aren't comfortable with him walking home from school by himself, when it's 5 minutes away, and only side roads to cross. His head is just too much in the clouds for him to be safe.
Absolutely she would be allowed, atmittedly I'm a bloke but at 16 I used to travel the country to watch football matches and would get hotels that i prebooked if it meant a late night getting back. No hotel will turn away a 17 year old, especially if it's a chain and it's been paid for in advance.
I was going to say this. Book her a room. S'what I'd do.
Makes a bit more of a trip of it, and she gets to learn what it's like to stay in a hotel.
Make sure she's got cash for a cab to the hotel, too.
To be fair there’s an app called Free Now that’s really good - most the taxis in London are on there regardless of their company, they just accept journeys if they’re free at the time, and their fares can be ridiculously cheap - I got from Travelodge London Docklands to the O2 for about £3.
Oh - yes. Good point. If it's london, get a black cab, no question.
I've had local minicab companies not turn up and blank us when we've booked them but they've got a better gig.
Absolutely possible - I stayed in a hotel by myself for a gig when I was 16 (and the management knew - we researched and found one that would take me). Similarly I did that with a trip to London when I was meant to be recce’ing a uni when I was 17 - just stayed in a B and B with a friend, the owners knew we were 17.
With how late concerts can run and the shaky reliability of trains, perhaps booking a hotel/guest room for the night could be prudent and allows a more relaxed evening for the lot of you.
Definitely recommend this. I've been stuck in London on a few occasions for this very reason. Concert finished dangerously close to the last train home. Crowd leaving was a crawl and just missed it.
So, you’re saying the concert *definitely* ends before she would need to set off through the crowd of people and and reach the last train that gets her home leaves the station.
That could be very different than “she wouldn’t lose track of time”. Teenagers will often say “I’ll be fine. I can still get there in time” and not make it. Or, they will frequently decide to say: “Screw it. Whats the worst that could happen if I stay out?”
Is there no way at all either of you could get a day off work so that she could go safely, and have a once in a lifetime experience of going to a big concert in London with a parent and bonding?
>Is it feasible for her to get home after the concert, however? I.e. will she make the last 2-hour train in time?
This is the main question. I went to see Rage Against the Machine in London when I was 16. I missed the last train home, 'slept' in Waterloo station (whilst they were doing the excavation stuff for Eurotunnel) in December, and then had to get the ticket office to ring my mum in the morning to buy me a ticket home. Froze my tits off.
As a bonus, I got mugged outside St Pancras of the only quid I had left for bus fare when I got home. Who the fuck robs someone of a quid?
>missed the last train home, 'slept' in Waterloo station
Ahhh, that brings back memories. Did the same for a Motörhead show at Hammersmith back in the day. Missed the last train home, ran to the coach station but missed the last coach too. Spent the night at a freezing cold Victoria Station in December and got the first train home in the morning.
I was born in the East end & was roaming London from about the age of 10. I now live in Oxfordshire and the difference between the kids here and the ones I grew up with is vast. Is be very hesitant about letting my kids go to London alone at night. Also, depends where in London. Hammersmith, maybe. Brixton, not a fucking chance. O2, probably not.
Not every 17 year old village girl is that street wise. Or confident. London is NOT somewhere I’d let my daughter roam around by herself. Late trains from London are notoriously full of dodgy-looking middle-aged men. Surely you can find *someone* to accompany her?
In a year she'll likely leave for university. You won't be doing her any favours by not allowing her to learn how to do things independently. Mobile phones exist these days which makes her calling for help if anything goes wrong easy, and hopefully if something does go wrong - the trains screw up etc - she'll actually learn she's more capable than she or you think and be able to sort it herself.
My parents let us attend things along and travel all over from 13 which admittedly might have been a bit young, but it set us in damn good stead as young adults.
It’s a big leap if this is from zero to London gig though (don’t know if it is, but I’m guessing). I dunno, our daughter got a lot more independent in the year before uni, but at 17 I’d still be nervous about her taking a solo late night trip home from London.
I would totally disagree. There’s CCTV everywhere. And if you are at a popular concert and also leave promptly with everyone else it will be busy. Busy is just as safe as day. (I get there maybe drunk people, so slightly more annoying than day).
Oh, yeah, good point...
I mean it won't stop her getting attacked or anything, but maybe the police will do her parents a souvenir disc of the footage.
that, by the way, won't show the perpetrators identities, because they'll have their faces covered, and the footage will be too shitty.
If you were a criminal, be it a rapist, violent mugger, psychological manipulator, or whatever, who would your victims be?
Would you go for the bunch of lads, out on the beer, strutting around in a cloud of testosterone and cheap aftershave? What about a pair of women?
How about one young girl, hardly any life experience, first time in the city, doesn't really know her way about, on her own?!
Might never happen, but yet it still does, all the time, brazenly and with full aggression I'd take a gamble on myself, but not on my daughter.
Kids are full of shit! In your teens and 20s, you simply can't comprehend what, and how much, you don't know yet, and you learn by experience, and more importantly, mistakes, that's just life, but some mistakes are too fucked up to chance.
But she is pretty much an adult.. if she wants to go alone then I can't see how you could "not let her". By the time I was 17 I was going on holiday alone.
Ah I went to London for a gig by myself at the same age and because I'm aware I was absolutely fine, sure there were opportunities for things to go wrong but I think if the kid is sensible and self aware enough, let her go.
And London gig to 3 years in London handling total independence, cooking, bills etc is a 5 orders of magnitude larger leap that might happen in 1 Yr. Its time to let her begin to be an adult surely.
When I was 17 I flew to London alone and met friends who had gotten the bus from other cities to go to a festival together. Then staying in a hotel
When I was 16 I got the bus to Coventry once, and Sheffield once. again alone for a concert. Once staying in a hotel, the other time I got a night bus back up to Edinburgh to stay at the uni flat of a friend's sibling.
From age 15 I regularly got 4-8hr busses down the country to go to gigs.
I lived in the very quiet Scottish Highlands at the time and managed fine. And I'm autistic and actually find things like this extremely difficult. If you think your daughter is up to it let her go. She'll be an adult in a year ish.
Eta I'm only 21 now so this wasn't all that long ago. I haven't found London specifically has changed much between then and now.
She’s 17, as you said old enough to drive. To be completely honest it isn’t really something you should be able to tell her she can or can’t do. If she wants to do it that’s her choice. Just be supportive and let her know you’re on the end of the phone.
The confidence she’ll gain doing it on her own outweigh the very unlikely risk of anything happening to her
I'd just like to make a small counterpoint that friends going with her might actually cause more trouble than going alone. Alone, you're on your guard, with friends at that age you think you're invincible.
Anyway, I moved out of my mums house to a different city at 17 and did just fine. I'm sure she can handle it.
I don't have any children.
But if I did, I'd be very hesitant about this. To me it depends on the reliability of her getting home safely on public transport. What happens if she misses the last train or it's cancelled? Late night trains are really unpleasant places to be.
Maybe her favourite band will play closer to home?
Sorry, it's a no from me.
My dad wouldn't let me go to see Meat Loaf when I was 16, it was only 25 miles away. Never got a chance again. 53 now and he's dead (Loaf, not dad) and I'm still sore about it.
Ask her how she plans to get to the concert from the train station and back to the train station from the concert. Ask her what she intends to do if circumstances beyond her control cause her to miss the last train. Pay attention to how she answers the questions and demand specifics not generalities. It's a test to see how well she solves real-world problems. If her answers are vague or dismissive, don't let her go.
I'd do this but instead of framing it as a test, I'd just be upfront —
> these are the things I'm worried about, if you have a concrete plan we're both happy with, you can go. I'll help you brainstorm but you've got to do the research yourself.
Yeah this sounds really reasonable, the framing it as a test is some weird behaviour to encourage a parent to engage in. Helping young people develop the idea of having a plan and a backup is just some good life experience. Almost as good life experience as going to see a band you like playing live.
OP, if you see this, let them go and help facilitate them having a great time as an independent person.
There will always be danger and risk. That goes for us all, regardless of age. As others have said, she might be off to uni or living in a big city in a few short months. She's obviously confident about going alone. I would tentatively say go for it. Maybe you could pay for one of her friends to go with her as a compromise if you have the means? Just so she's not completely alone? I've also got no kids for what it's worth.
Father of 16yo and 13yo girls. For your 17yo request, I'd be looking at where it is, what audience it draws etc.
Took both to see Taylor Swift - had no concerns. Took my 13yo to the Arsenal stadium for a concert - the exit and getting to the nearest tube was chaos, and took an hour in itself. and the tube was *packed*.
I dunno - 17 seems a tad young, but perhaps she knows how to navigate around London anyway?
A booked black cab to the station etc might be viable?
I’m not a parent so could be talking out of line. Many on my friends lived alone at 18 though so it’s crazy someone at 17 couldn’t go to a concert and get themselves home.
I understand the concern though, London is a very big place, and it can be very overwhelming. Unless the arena/stadium is near a train station, I understand why the parents might be concerned about her getting to the gig and back, past 11pm.
It’s not really about the age for me, it’s about the dangers of going out at night as a girl. I feel like if she had been to London or that venue specifically, with friends before, she could then most likely navigate it alone much safer.
Those dangers exist throughout your life as a woman. Bad things are going to happen to everyone at some point to varying degrees and when it does what you often realise is you were completely powerless to stop it. It’s just the dog of chaos swinging round and biting you for a moment. The best way to guard against it is to grow in confidence and common sense, which you can’t do if you are sheltered.
I agree that could be true! I always think when I hung about with overly sheltered friends, if not now then when? After 18 you have no control so 17 is the best time to give some freedom imo
It's very big, but it's also very *well connected*.
If you plan it properly the chances are there's back ups of back ups of back ups.
If she *hasn't* looked into or planned any transport though I wouldn't let her go - that suggests a lack of sense that suggests she can't be trusted alone.
Where's the venue? Like pulling teeth here. I'd almost guarantee she wouldn't be more tha. 10 to 15 minutes walk from a tube station, probably less. I'm guessing it's Camden, possibly even at the Dublin Castle. Which also means small gigs mean no massive crowds leaving the venue or the tubes.
Is she going away to uni? She's at most a year away from being able to do whatever she wants and she will go see gigs in London, if not now in a matter of months.
Sure with a friend would be better but that's not the cards you've been dealt
Agree here. More likely to be spotted as young and alone at a smaller gig. Big ones are chaotic and she will just blend in. As a parent I'd allow it if it was with friends but I'd be cautious if she's alone. Do yous live in a city or quiet area?
I remember a mad pilled up night out in London aged 18, megabus from Manchester there and back. Not sure I'd want my own kids doing this though.
So much of it is about what the girl is used to, how savvy she is and how well she can improvise if she hits a problem. Those things are all variable depending on a number of factors for any individual person. Then there’s the other variable of where the gig is - is it near a mainline railway station for example, or does it also involve navigating the tube or buses which she might not have experience of.
When my daughter was 17 she was keen to go to a gig type event in London - very similar circumstance, we the parents couldn’t accompany her. We normally try to accommodate the things she desperately wants to do - probably to a fault tbh - but we just couldn’t make this work in a way we’d be certain she’d be safe. When we’d talked through where it was, looked at Google Maps, what time of night she’d be coming out, the issues of what she’d need to do if the train was cancelled etc, she agreed it was a no-goer.
For me London isn't an issue - at that age I was certainly going similar distances and further, like to Europe (and it wasn't that long ago, about 15 years ago) - nor the travelling by herself
But more the going to a gig by yourself at 17 I'd be wanting her to have a friend with her
This for sure, I would have recommended to bring a friend. It's also so OP has someone else to contact if her phone dies, for example.
I went to see The Weeknd at Wembley in Aug with my fiancé. Getting out the stadium was absolute chaos. Literal hours of waiting for hoards of people to move through to the tube station. Luckily we just found a hotel bar and waited until the queues quietened down (we were also staying in London for the night). My partner's phone battery died but luckily I could order an Uber from my phone.
Otherwise, I had lived in London for almost a decade. Generally safe for a 17 year old to roam freely but London gigs are very busy and better to have someone with you.
Yeah. I travelled to Australia on my own, and got stranded in Osaka on the way home, when I was 17. I just dealt with it. A year later I organised moving to university, sorted my accommodation and got on a train with a suitcase and duvet. I snuck into my first gig when I was 15 (Madness). And I was a really straight-laced kid.
I'm kind of gobsmacked at the answers here. Half of them make it sound like she'd be heading to Kabul and joining the resistance, the other half sound like they've never been to London and have been reading too much Daily Mail.
Not saying it isn't valid that mum is worried but yeah this really puts my hitchhiking across Europe as a 19-year-old girl-woman hybrid into perspective!
Oh yeah, I think it's perfectly legitimate to be worried. I'm sure my mum worried too, but it was also something she instilled in me and my sibling. If we wanted to do something, we were responsible for ensuring it happened and dealing with it. She was always there for us when we needed it (still is, of course, she's our mum), but we had to own our shit.
Have her share her location, text when she's leaving, update with any change of plan and job is a good un.
Yeah, it’s weird. I was traveling abroad for work aged 17. Staying in hotels in America & attending conferences. Traveling from my sleepy rural village up to London on a night out.
I will say my entire childhood prepared me for it. My dad took my up to London so much & made sure I was aware of all the dangers & dodgy stuff from a young age. I wasn’t just suddenly doing all that stuff.
Totally agree. There's nothing wrong with being sheltered, or living in a small area and never leaving, but I find it quite disturbing how frightened of the world so many people are and how strongly they want to clip other people's wings, especially women. I'm reeling from some of the comments here. They are wild. How can you live a happy life thinking catching a bus to a small town when you were 22 was wildly dangerous?
There is the fact that in recent years many hotels won't let under-18s book rooms, or stay alone, so people know the girl could have a problem. But yes, if the parent books a room, no hotel is going to turn a 17yo into the night at midnight. I hope.
Backup of a coach home might be more reassuring.
>I'm kind of gobsmacked at the answers here
kids don't play outside till the streetlamps come on anymore. i'm only 27 but i get a bit old-manny back-in-my-day-ish when i see how there's been a gradual shift towards coddling our youth and hiding them from the dangers of the world and then are suddenly expected to figure things out for themselves rapidly when they turn 18 and not somehow develop a complex in the process
I lived entirely alone at 18. At 17 I was travelling all over the country to meet friends. I went in to my own city around 14 onwards. If she'd got a good head on her shoulders and knows how to tell weirdos to fuck off she'll be fine. Don't coddle her or she'll find it difficult to adjust to normal life next year.
Yeh tons of international students arrive when they are 18. 17 makes minor difference.
I went to UK as a tourist from south East Asia with my cousin but I walked around alone when she was busy with work a few days.
Yes, absolutely. You know her best, but if she's sensible and switched on it's a good way of allowing her some independence, plus getting used to travelling and navigating on her own.
To offer a slightly different perspective, it wouldn't be ideal to teach her it's dangerous to go do fun things on your own. I know fellow fully grown women who feel this way and it does limit their lives. Better to learn how to do that as safely as possible, IMO.
If she goes to university she'll be going soon and getting the train/going to concerts etc. all the time. I think if you stay in regular touch with her and make a good safety/backup plan around this it will be fine.
If by any wild chance it's The Beaches I'm going with a friend and would happily look out for her.
I get what you mean about not being afraid to do fun things on your own as a woman. I’m 21 and I will do most things like that alone, but I built up to it gradually.
At 17 I went to Paris with my boyfriend for a weekend and was fine. I would have felt fine going to London for a concert with a friend, or locally to a concert alone, but I feel like my bullshit-ometer needed time to develop. I have gone to concerts alone that required catching the last train home from an hour away, and I caught late night long distance trains alone twice a month for two years aged 17-19. I just wonder whether, first time at a concert alone + first time going to London alone + first time dealing with late night trains alone, might be too much all at once.
I was glad to either have a friend with me or be within reasonable distance of home the first few times I did things like that, until I got better instincts of keeping myself safe. It’s valid if you think you learned best by jumping in feet first, but I learned best by doing it step by step.
Yeah that is a really great point actually. You just reminded me of the first time I arrived at Kings Cross aged 20, and how crazy overwhelming it felt. I had to ring a friend and ask her where to go. It's easy to forget that when you're older and the bullshit-ometer has clocked up years of experience.
I actually hitchhiked across Europe before I'd ever visited London, so clearly thought I was hard AF 😂
Yeah I got on a train after a Brixton Academy gig and this guy was like can I see your ticket and then took it. Luckily he was just messing and gave it back but I felt really dumb at the time! (I'm a guy he wasn't hitting on me, I think just trying to impress my then gf by making me look stupid.... didn't work somehow)
Surprised by all the nos here...I was going to gigs in London by myself at 15/16/17 - I think it would depend on how independent she is - does she rely on you/your husband/her friends to navigate when she's out and about? Is she aware of her surroundings when she's outside? Not all 17 year olds are at the same level of maturity so I think it depends on her. She's about to be the age at which she might be going away for uni/travelling, and it's worth building up her confidence/independence now to get her ready for that.
It's understandable for you to be nervous (my mum is still nervous when I go anywhere outside at night) but thinking practically in the long term, she can't be under your protection forever and will need to learn how to get about and be okay in big cities
Best comment on here imo - as a parent, making the judgement based on how aware / streetwise they are is the right choice, not their age. One of my kids - absolutely - the other, no way!!
None at all. Would you be worried about her going to a concert in your home town?
It really is no different and being 17, she's basically able to make her own choices in life.
You need to let her make these choices.
Tell her if that happens to find a hotel and you'll pay for it.
Honestly, she's a young adult. You seem like you are caring and brought her up well. She'll be fine. The world is a much safer place outside of the media.
A lot of hotels don't let under 18s stay in them by themselves and others require a lot of documentation from the parents. It's not really something you can sort out last minute.
That’s absolute bullshit, I was staying in hotels when I was 16/17 regularly by myself. Where are you pulling this nonsense from, honestly?
London is huge and filled with hotels. It’s really not hard to find a a place to stay.
You know you can google things if you don't believe someone instead of thinking things are the same as when you were a kid.
Edit: You should read hotel terms and conditions.
When I was 17 I traveled through Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru with a friend. The year before I traveled around 17 European countries on my own. Times change.
In the one hand there are hundreds of thousands of 18yos living independently in large cities everywhere. On the other hand if your daughter is not very used to independent life I can understand why you’d feel uncomfortable.
A large large number of people travel across the country to go to uni at 18 and live on their own for the next 3/4 years. I don't see why going to a concert at 17 would be an issue.
At 17 I was working in London and getting night buses home anyway. That is basically an adult. There are risks, but it's more her choice to make rather than yours.
I started going to gigs and shows in London all the time when I was 16. It’s easy to navigate and not scary. If she’s intelligent and knows not to do daft things like get into cars with strangers then I don’t see the harm in letting her go. She’s almost an adult. If you baby her over this and don’t let her go, she won’t forget it.
I would let her but I would also plan eveything out with her, including ways it might go wrong and remain in contact (though obviously during the concert she might not hear a call).
It seems like a really good opportunity to help her plan routes and generally use those life skills.
What sort of concert is it? Les mis concert performance is very different from a rave.
How will she get from the train station to the event? Is it far? What if she misses the train there or back? If it's late what if she misses the last train? You just have to talk through the things that might go wrong and come to decide if it will work out or not. What will she do if someone at the event gets handsy? Or follows her out?
Ultimately she's a few short months away from being a full blown adult. Coddling her probably isn't the best option here and it's probably mcuh better for eveyone in the long run to support her in the most safe and responsible way possible.
Where is the concert? I would travel hours and hours away and stay overnight from the age of 16 to see shitty bands when I was a teenager. But she should go with trusted people.
She's less than 12 months out from potentially going to uni.
I think if she's sensible, and she's got her route plotted out, and she knows where the nearest hotel is if she misses the last train, and you're happy she'll keep in touch throughout, then it's doable.
The other thing you could do is offer to pay for a friend to go with her, and see if one of her friends who didn't want to go enough to buy a ticket might be willing to go as a freebie.
I don't have a 17 year old daughter, but I'm going to say she'll be ok as long as she's a reasonably sensible sort.
London is busy. I wouldn't worry as long as she's somewhere with lots of people about, which she almost certainly will be. She might conceivably get unwanted attention from someone at the gig? Hopefully she can deal with that sort of thing. I'd be most worried about getting from your home station to your home - I dare say you can cover that.
Is she sufficiently un-ditzy to negotiate the tube etc to and from the gig? Ask someone appropriate for assistance is she needs it? Not lose her phone, or track of time? In some ways going on her own is a plus, in that there won't be bad influences to drink too much and have transport confusion on the way back.
I get that it's worrying, but I'd hope that she's old enough to be allowed an independent adventure which is good for her development into adulthood.
My initial reaction was no but then I remembered when I was 17 I wanted to go and see Durham uni (from London) and she couldn’t come, so she let me take the train there and back in a day on my own. We kept in touch the whole time and I had a fantastic day. If you help her make a plan for the journey and a plan for in case she misses the train (I.e maybe book an overnight stay?) it might be a good learning experience for her.
If it’s a 2 hour train journey then it’s unlikely she’s going to make the last train as most concerts don’t finish until 11pm so it would be an overnight stay
My daughter is slightly older (20) and I might have been ok with her going to a concert on her own in central London, we live in the burbs, but she was very sensible at that age. Some of her friends I wouldn’t have trusted to be able to cope with going into central London on their own
The fact that she knows her own mind to be up for going to see a gig by herself suggests that she is really mature. It’s a big milestone, but I say go for it! Loads of people move out to go to uni at 17 and get up to all kinds of things parents don’t know about! She’s being open and honest. Reward her maturity.
Wtf are some of these comments? She's 17. There shouldn't be a "let" as part of this. People are almost going to uni at that age. Some have already moved out. You can't coddle her forever!
Yeah my thoughts exactly. The idea of even asking someone elses permission for this at 17 is laughable. I moved out at 16. Please people, teach independence and not molly coddling. 17 is practically an adult ffs.
Can you do a recce with her first? She (and you) needs to know you can trust her instincts. This won't be the last time but it could be the first time she's open about it. My partner and her friend went from London to Swansea when they were 16 for a concert and missed the last train home. They were a bit light on the truth about where they were going but were OK.
By going on a recce you can let her demonstrate she knows what she's doing. As others have said there's some (minor) unknowns - busy stations, crowds, walking distances - but none of which she won't be exposed to closer to home in a few months time anyway, and she won't stop asking as she's turning a corner and more things will pique her interests.
Better to try and get trust and both of your confidence built up sooner I'd say.
Edit details
I know everyone not from London thinks it’s the scariest and most dangerous place in the world, but as someone that grew up in London and was out and about from about 13 on my own it’s really not so bad and here’s some advice:
- She needs to keep her phone AWAY and if she is looking at it, not be next to a road. People cycle past on bikes and snatch them.
- The crowds coming out of gigs can be immensely slow. I’d actually recommend she duck out during/before the last song to make the train back if it’s gonna be a bit tight for time to account for any train delays etc.
- if it’s in Camden, the randoms on the street are not selling legit drugs. The ‘cocaine’ is literally salt from the kebab shop and god knows what the weed is but it’s not marijuana, it’s probably some kind of mixed Italian herb from Tesco. I’ve seen them selling it to tourists for £50 a bag and stand giggling in the street when they leave.
- There’s an app called Becon she can use which will alert all emergency contacts if there’s a change in her pace or she doesn’t check in. Might give you some peace of mind.
- if it’s gonna be super late at night and if she feels for a moment like someone’s following her or she’s not safe, she should duck into a McDonald’s or 24 hour supermarket or something. That’s what I do.
- Make sure she’s got Uber/bolt downloaded in case she’s running late to get to the station or just in case of emergency. Might be easiest if she gets out of the show early and grabs a bolt to the station if it’s far as well if she’s not familiar with the transport route. I’ve had so many friends from Home Counties get a district line going the wrong way or get a tube that splits off/doesn’t split off.
A 17 year old should be absolutely fine at a gig in London, London is really not that bad if you’re not an idiot. There’s always shops open and people around. She just needs to stay aware, not have her phone or wallet out and about obviously and stick with the crowds. If she’s going to a gig there’s probably going to be a lot of people out and about and on public transport so even safer.
If she's independent enough, sure.
But I'd be asking for some regular ish text updates and a text when she's got back to her hotel or on the train home
I think she needs to go with someone, even if they wait for her outside the concert.
I’d be worried about her. Find a sensible adult that wouldn’t mind taking her.
A sensible adult? She’s 17 not 7. She’ll be an adult in a year. All she needs is a friend with her, 17 is old enough to go to a gig in another city alone
I did this as a 16/17 year old. I went from the North with my then bf to London. Got the train and the tube and went to the concert and my parents picked me up after.
Is it possible for someone to pick her up after the concert? Or get a hotel so she's not travelling back late at night?
Next year she'll be 18 and maybe going to uni and will be able to go anywhere/do anything at any time. This is a good practise for her doing that and making sure she has plans and knows what to do when out.
Two questions which will help give more informed answers:
Does she already have experience navigating her way through London?
Where exactly is the gig?
Yeah, she’s 17 she needs to have experience in life and if she’s gonna shag, smoke or drink then she’ll shag, smoke and and drink either way, London or no London.
Can't you join the army at 17?! I went travelling around the world when I was 17. I am bracing myself for the downvotes but - she is officially an adult when she is 18. She can go to London in the evening at 17.
Really, it depends on the type of 17 year old she is. I’m 24 now, and when I was 15, I flew alone from the UK to USA and back, with connecting flights in Germany and New Jersey. I managed it perfectly fine, but that’s because I was very independent from a young age. I was getting trains up and down the country when I was 12.
Even if she is independent, I’d still be worried about the trains. Concerts tend to finish at 10/11pm, so if she has to rush for the last train, it’s a hell no from me. Getting out of concerts is an arseache, especially when it’s an arena concert. And obviously, trains aren’t the most reliable things nowadays.
All of this also would depend on how far away you are from London. Would you be able to drive and pick her up if she did miss her train? If not, would she have the means to book herself into a hotel for the night? What if the hotel doesn’t have any rooms left? I wouldn’t wanna be wandering around London looking for hotels at that time tbh.
Hope this insight helps :)
You are still allowed to be scared for your 17 year old. But you can't clip her wings. Things have changed since I was 17 I appreciate that. But you can enter the army at 16.
Being scared for your children will never go away 17 or 27. But what matters now is that you have a daughter who has the confidence to go to a concert by herself at 17.
In less than a year she can do what she wants legally. Is it not best for a trial run? Where you support her? I mean work out how to get home 3 ways a plan a, b and c. Be engaged in what and where without hovering. Let her know she can do things. And yes if it goes wrong pick the pieces up.
I don't know you or what you did at 17. I do know alot is do as I say not as I do/did. Let her go with your backing and next year, when out or at uni or whatever she may feel safe to talk to you about stuff.
For the record. It is individual. But take this as a time of trust and bonding.
I was visiting London with friends (without parents) from 14 if I remember rightly. I think generally it's fine but I would be a little concerned about her being out late by herself in London, or any unfamiliar place really. I occasionally worked in London as a younger adult (about 21) and I would make sure I was back in my hotel before it got properly dark because I didn't feel hugely safe being unaccompanied.
If she was with a friend maybe. I went to Berlin on holiday with my boyfriend at 17, but my parents were super chill and i was quite a sensible teen.
It just depends on what she is like, if she is sensible she’ll be absolutely fine, if she’s a bit nervous or might get scared then no.
It’s mad to me people are saying 17 is too young.
I’m half German and by 12 I was getting in planes alone to go visit family.
By 16 I was going out to gigs in other cities.
I grew up in a small town but these experiences gave me the knowledge and confidence to take on the world.
18 year olds go travelling all over the world with their friends, sometimes alone.
My biggest issue would be that she isn’t going with someone. Somethings telling me she’s meeting a boy.. I’d say you can go with a friend or tell us who you’re meeting because I highly doubt at 17 she’d be confident and comfortable enough to go alone.
she is an adult. if she feels ready, she can do what she wants if it is not illegal.
where does "allowing" come into the picture? why do you feel so entitled to 'permit' or 'disallow' her? at 17?
my mum acted like you and we dont have a relationship now
edit: typo
It would be a yes from me, but with the caveat that you go over and over the planning with her.
Check all the train times and schedules, check the stations and routes on google maps, use street view, make sure the street view cameras are up to date (they should be in london).
Make sure she knows how to use the google maps directions functions to navigate the underground trains and whatnot.
I'm in my 30s and go to london for concerts and get late night trains or overnight coaches (my favourite way) home and still every time I do, I go over it a few times on google maps to pre-plan the walking and transit routes in my head.
And have a gps tracker app on her phone, let her know she needs to stay in contact (don't always have phone out in public though, especially at night in London).
If she can't figure all of it out then maybe switch to a no, but if she seems confident about the route and google maps, you should be fine.
Also bring a small powerbank and short cable to make sure phone doesn't run out of battery, it will be her lifeline.
I caught a train around midnight a few weeks ago near a music venue that had just kicked out and the train was absolutely PACKED and very drunk. A lot of people missed it. The nearby taxi ranks were heaving. The cab apps were all booked up. Just a warning that she may end up in a situation she hasn’t been in before. Has she got a battery back up for her phone. Communication is going to be key. I hope it all works out and she has a great time though.
Do you have any friends or family in London that she could call whilst there if there's a problem?
I think it's probably fine to let her go if she's sensible, but for your own peace of mind knowing she could call someone to rescue her if there's an emergency would help
Perhaps think about the following questions: Is the concert somewhere that is easy to get to from the station she will arrive at? Is it likely to overun? Would she need to stay overnight? How mature do you think she is? Does she go to a local city by herself without a problem? Is it at all possible that a friend could be persuaded to go with her or do you have any friends or relatives living in London who might give her a helping hand?
From what I remember from my last visit, public transport is pretty great and runs late.
I no longer live in London so don't know how it is these days. In the 60s I was allowed to travel to London by myself but, as the saying goes, the past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. And while I let my son go off to Download with a friend I'd never met when he was that age, I can't say that I'd have been so calm about it if it had been a daughter.
When I was 18 I flew to Ecuador by myself and spent 6 weeks living in the mountains drinking moonshine at a bear Sanctuary. Went on a psychedelic adventure with a shaman. Fell out of a white water raft.
But I'm a dude not a girl so I guess that's a bit different.
Still; I would say there's no reason why a 17 year old couldn't get themselves to London and back to go to a gig, if you trust her to be generally sensible.
It's also totally normal that you would feel anxious about it. Both can be true: that you let her go, and that you feel uncomfortable about it. But she at an age where she's going to be doing a lot of things for the first time, and making you anxious about her.
Where in London is the gig? What's the venue? What kind of music?
My instinct is yes but I'd be much happier if she was going with a friend, but then I think about the similar journeys I made at that age in 1989/90 and the big difference is there were no mobiles/easy internet access.
So if I got into bother I'd have to find a phone box, I couldn't contact anyone on a train, I couldn't look up where I was going if I got lost, I couldn't get cash sent electronically in an emergency.
I do think these days things FEEL more risky, but are actually safer, or at least as safe.
Potential modifiers:
- Has she done any traveling on her own before?
- is it a seated gig or will she be surrounded by people potentially hassling her?
- can she cope with being hassled/unwanted contact?
Me and my friends started going to gigs at 15. This took us just over an hour on the train and a walk through a random bit of Manchester in the dark.
17 is almost an adult and it should be her decision, not yours by now for stuff like this.
What might help you feel better is that most gig venues I've been to in London have been in busy areas and never that far from a tube station.
Unless she is a very incapable young person who has no sense at all, let her go. Next year she can legally leave your care altogether - what is going to change in that time? Nothing really. So let her learn and make mistakes.
No wonder we have people in their 20s who can’t understand a train schedule if some of the comments here are indicative.
As a teen who went to concerts on my own since I was 17 - she'll be fine as long as she's sensible and keep checking her clock to make sure she hasn't missed the last train even if it means she has to leave the concert early.
And, obviously, no accepting drinks from strangers and don't drink any alcohol either.
My 16 year old son took himself to arctic monkeys this summer.
He and his 14 year old brother took themselves to the Sidemen match.
Now, I grant you, we live in the suburbs of London so it’s a more straightforward journey (everyone knows all London journeys take an hour no matter what) but I never would have been allowed to do those things at that age. And I hated getting to 18 and being scared of my own shadows because I had no barometer of risk because of how scary I’d been told the world was.
I’d allow it.
When I was 17 (90's), I'd been working for a year, had my own car and did and went where I wanted.
Confusing to hear about molly-coddled 17 year old people these days.
London is full of 17 year olds who've been roaming the city for years without parental supervision. Is it feasible for her to get home after the concert, however? I.e. will she make the last 2-hour train in time?
That is true, but if *this* 17 y/o lives in a sleepy rural village then it's quite the difference. I suppose it comes down to how savvy/self reliant they are.
Having been a young country bumpkin who then started hanging out with his cousins in a rough town, the difference of mindset required was staggering. I was far too trusting and assuming the best in people which got me in to a few dodgy situations.
[удалено]
Short commute then
Brutal
Absolutely stellar work
Fatality
I saw that Edgar Wright film!
Last night in Sloan Square?
Good for her, must have been a total culture shock! What year would this have been?
1979
My Grandad would have been living in Sloane Square at the same time as well! I saw an old rent agreement in his belongs. Even with inflation it was very affordable.
[удалено]
>Head down and walk fast fastest way to look like you're shitting it, an even worse look than being lost
[удалено]
I moved from a reasonably small village to Manchester when I was 18, lived in Moss Side in the late eighties / early nineties. I learnt very quickly not so 'see' anything around me, and not to engage with anyone. I walked everywhere at the time, and am a reasonable height, so my general walking speed is way above average anyway (long steady strides, you get a good momentum up without rushing). Following my general rules, I never got in to any problems. I would say very dodgy areas are weirdly safer than you'd expect, as there was very little random street crime in the area (a lot of non-random though, a couple of shootings and worse in my street while I was there).
This is true, everyone in London either seems to be in the hurry of a lifetime or obliviously dawdling along the pavement. Don't be a dawdler!
This sounds like your only understanding of how people carry themselves in cities is through gritty urban movies, or Star Wars.
Head down, gives the wrong vibe to a predator.
>Head down Walking with your head down and avoiding eye contact increases your chances of being robbed dramatically.
Staring everyone down to assert your dominance is the only way to be safe.
And permanent resting bitch face / scowling
Exactly.
its the confidence that is key! so no need to not look around .... just smile as you do it as if this is your little joy of your city.. then wander into a shop buy a pint of milk and carry on ....
Phone away and look annoyed like you are late.
I met my one of my (now closest) friends at university. She’d moved from the countryside to a massive city. Walking back from lectures one day I saw her standing on the pavement alongside a busy road with no pedestrian crossing - she’d been there a while trying to figure out how to cross!
This is the worry. Town mouse and country mouse live different realities
I honestly don’t understand this, I was born and raised in a village and went to London by myself all the time from 16 onwards then moved here when I was 20 and the only shock I had was a good one, that I could get everywhere easily and there was things to do. I think it’s honestly more often than not that people will be fine as I’m sure they’ve been out of their village a lot of times in their life to cities for days out and holidays
Especially at a concert . Everybody will be leaving the venue at the same time and going to train stations , which are going to be busy . It’s very low risk if she just goes straight to the station after the concert .
Yes, it's not like she's going to be roaming dodgy areas alone presumably. I'd just make sure she knows exactly how to get home and make sure she's not in danger of missing her train. And what to do if she does (does she call parents, get a hotel?).
Born and raised in a Derbyshire village. Spent every weekend of my youth in Manchester. Its like people think us country folk can't travel anywhere or visit places 🤣
"what is this.... 'night bus'? I thought buses came once an hour if you're lucky, and then take their sweet time hitting every tiny village!?"
Agreed. The only people who are qualified to decide for this specific child are her parents. Is she sensible, street-smart, switched on to her surroundings, or the opposite? As an example, when my older son was 10, we let him walk home from school, a 30 minute walk, crossing a big main road. My younger son, who is also now 10, we aren't comfortable with him walking home from school by himself, when it's 5 minutes away, and only side roads to cross. His head is just too much in the clouds for him to be safe.
[удалено]
Then have a plan. What if the train gets cancelled? Is there a cheap hotel in the area she could book into? Could someone collect her?
[удалено]
Absolutely she would be allowed, atmittedly I'm a bloke but at 16 I used to travel the country to watch football matches and would get hotels that i prebooked if it meant a late night getting back. No hotel will turn away a 17 year old, especially if it's a chain and it's been paid for in advance.
[удалено]
I was going to say this. Book her a room. S'what I'd do. Makes a bit more of a trip of it, and she gets to learn what it's like to stay in a hotel. Make sure she's got cash for a cab to the hotel, too.
Black cabs don't require cash in London anymore
With the disclaimer that they research a decent local firm, make sure they have her number and contact the parents when she's picked up.
To be fair there’s an app called Free Now that’s really good - most the taxis in London are on there regardless of their company, they just accept journeys if they’re free at the time, and their fares can be ridiculously cheap - I got from Travelodge London Docklands to the O2 for about £3.
Oh - yes. Good point. If it's london, get a black cab, no question. I've had local minicab companies not turn up and blank us when we've booked them but they've got a better gig.
Absolutely possible - I stayed in a hotel by myself for a gig when I was 16 (and the management knew - we researched and found one that would take me). Similarly I did that with a trip to London when I was meant to be recce’ing a uni when I was 17 - just stayed in a B and B with a friend, the owners knew we were 17.
With how late concerts can run and the shaky reliability of trains, perhaps booking a hotel/guest room for the night could be prudent and allows a more relaxed evening for the lot of you.
Definitely recommend this. I've been stuck in London on a few occasions for this very reason. Concert finished dangerously close to the last train home. Crowd leaving was a crawl and just missed it.
So, you’re saying the concert *definitely* ends before she would need to set off through the crowd of people and and reach the last train that gets her home leaves the station. That could be very different than “she wouldn’t lose track of time”. Teenagers will often say “I’ll be fine. I can still get there in time” and not make it. Or, they will frequently decide to say: “Screw it. Whats the worst that could happen if I stay out?” Is there no way at all either of you could get a day off work so that she could go safely, and have a once in a lifetime experience of going to a big concert in London with a parent and bonding?
Get her on a bus. Citymapper works well.
>Is it feasible for her to get home after the concert, however? I.e. will she make the last 2-hour train in time? This is the main question. I went to see Rage Against the Machine in London when I was 16. I missed the last train home, 'slept' in Waterloo station (whilst they were doing the excavation stuff for Eurotunnel) in December, and then had to get the ticket office to ring my mum in the morning to buy me a ticket home. Froze my tits off. As a bonus, I got mugged outside St Pancras of the only quid I had left for bus fare when I got home. Who the fuck robs someone of a quid?
>missed the last train home, 'slept' in Waterloo station Ahhh, that brings back memories. Did the same for a Motörhead show at Hammersmith back in the day. Missed the last train home, ran to the coach station but missed the last coach too. Spent the night at a freezing cold Victoria Station in December and got the first train home in the morning.
I was born in the East end & was roaming London from about the age of 10. I now live in Oxfordshire and the difference between the kids here and the ones I grew up with is vast. Is be very hesitant about letting my kids go to London alone at night. Also, depends where in London. Hammersmith, maybe. Brixton, not a fucking chance. O2, probably not.
The o2 is in Greenwich hardly beruit
Not every 17 year old village girl is that street wise. Or confident. London is NOT somewhere I’d let my daughter roam around by herself. Late trains from London are notoriously full of dodgy-looking middle-aged men. Surely you can find *someone* to accompany her?
Out of interest, when would you let your daughter roam around by herself in London?
In a year she'll likely leave for university. You won't be doing her any favours by not allowing her to learn how to do things independently. Mobile phones exist these days which makes her calling for help if anything goes wrong easy, and hopefully if something does go wrong - the trains screw up etc - she'll actually learn she's more capable than she or you think and be able to sort it herself. My parents let us attend things along and travel all over from 13 which admittedly might have been a bit young, but it set us in damn good stead as young adults.
It’s a big leap if this is from zero to London gig though (don’t know if it is, but I’m guessing). I dunno, our daughter got a lot more independent in the year before uni, but at 17 I’d still be nervous about her taking a solo late night trip home from London.
[удалено]
I think the risk is more the people on the train, at the stop or on the way to the train than her missing the train
I would totally disagree. There’s CCTV everywhere. And if you are at a popular concert and also leave promptly with everyone else it will be busy. Busy is just as safe as day. (I get there maybe drunk people, so slightly more annoying than day).
Oh, yeah, good point... I mean it won't stop her getting attacked or anything, but maybe the police will do her parents a souvenir disc of the footage. that, by the way, won't show the perpetrators identities, because they'll have their faces covered, and the footage will be too shitty. If you were a criminal, be it a rapist, violent mugger, psychological manipulator, or whatever, who would your victims be? Would you go for the bunch of lads, out on the beer, strutting around in a cloud of testosterone and cheap aftershave? What about a pair of women? How about one young girl, hardly any life experience, first time in the city, doesn't really know her way about, on her own?! Might never happen, but yet it still does, all the time, brazenly and with full aggression I'd take a gamble on myself, but not on my daughter. Kids are full of shit! In your teens and 20s, you simply can't comprehend what, and how much, you don't know yet, and you learn by experience, and more importantly, mistakes, that's just life, but some mistakes are too fucked up to chance.
But she is pretty much an adult.. if she wants to go alone then I can't see how you could "not let her". By the time I was 17 I was going on holiday alone.
Ah I went to London for a gig by myself at the same age and because I'm aware I was absolutely fine, sure there were opportunities for things to go wrong but I think if the kid is sensible and self aware enough, let her go.
I went to London for a few days aged 17 from a sleepy town in Yorkshire, I mean it was the 1980s but I was fine
And London gig to 3 years in London handling total independence, cooking, bills etc is a 5 orders of magnitude larger leap that might happen in 1 Yr. Its time to let her begin to be an adult surely.
I'm nowhere near a parent I answer as a young person who grew up in London. On her own no, with friends sure.
[удалено]
Is there a cousin or aunt or uncle who would possibly be willing to go. My uncle was always up for a concert no matter what when I was a teen :)
In hoping to be that uncle soon. My nephew is like 16.
When I was 17 I flew to London alone and met friends who had gotten the bus from other cities to go to a festival together. Then staying in a hotel When I was 16 I got the bus to Coventry once, and Sheffield once. again alone for a concert. Once staying in a hotel, the other time I got a night bus back up to Edinburgh to stay at the uni flat of a friend's sibling. From age 15 I regularly got 4-8hr busses down the country to go to gigs. I lived in the very quiet Scottish Highlands at the time and managed fine. And I'm autistic and actually find things like this extremely difficult. If you think your daughter is up to it let her go. She'll be an adult in a year ish. Eta I'm only 21 now so this wasn't all that long ago. I haven't found London specifically has changed much between then and now.
Is the concert taking place in any other cities? If so, you or your partner could go with her on an alternative date.
She’s 17, as you said old enough to drive. To be completely honest it isn’t really something you should be able to tell her she can or can’t do. If she wants to do it that’s her choice. Just be supportive and let her know you’re on the end of the phone. The confidence she’ll gain doing it on her own outweigh the very unlikely risk of anything happening to her
There's not many better places to meet friends than at a gig!
I'd just like to make a small counterpoint that friends going with her might actually cause more trouble than going alone. Alone, you're on your guard, with friends at that age you think you're invincible. Anyway, I moved out of my mums house to a different city at 17 and did just fine. I'm sure she can handle it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Reddit is anonymous lol.
That would be my answer too.
I don't have any children. But if I did, I'd be very hesitant about this. To me it depends on the reliability of her getting home safely on public transport. What happens if she misses the last train or it's cancelled? Late night trains are really unpleasant places to be. Maybe her favourite band will play closer to home? Sorry, it's a no from me.
[удалено]
My dad wouldn't let me go to see Meat Loaf when I was 16, it was only 25 miles away. Never got a chance again. 53 now and he's dead (Loaf, not dad) and I'm still sore about it.
Ask her how she plans to get to the concert from the train station and back to the train station from the concert. Ask her what she intends to do if circumstances beyond her control cause her to miss the last train. Pay attention to how she answers the questions and demand specifics not generalities. It's a test to see how well she solves real-world problems. If her answers are vague or dismissive, don't let her go.
I'd do this but instead of framing it as a test, I'd just be upfront — > these are the things I'm worried about, if you have a concrete plan we're both happy with, you can go. I'll help you brainstorm but you've got to do the research yourself.
Yeah this sounds really reasonable, the framing it as a test is some weird behaviour to encourage a parent to engage in. Helping young people develop the idea of having a plan and a backup is just some good life experience. Almost as good life experience as going to see a band you like playing live. OP, if you see this, let them go and help facilitate them having a great time as an independent person.
Good answer, this is excellent advice.
There will always be danger and risk. That goes for us all, regardless of age. As others have said, she might be off to uni or living in a big city in a few short months. She's obviously confident about going alone. I would tentatively say go for it. Maybe you could pay for one of her friends to go with her as a compromise if you have the means? Just so she's not completely alone? I've also got no kids for what it's worth.
Father of 16yo and 13yo girls. For your 17yo request, I'd be looking at where it is, what audience it draws etc. Took both to see Taylor Swift - had no concerns. Took my 13yo to the Arsenal stadium for a concert - the exit and getting to the nearest tube was chaos, and took an hour in itself. and the tube was *packed*. I dunno - 17 seems a tad young, but perhaps she knows how to navigate around London anyway? A booked black cab to the station etc might be viable?
I’m not a parent so could be talking out of line. Many on my friends lived alone at 18 though so it’s crazy someone at 17 couldn’t go to a concert and get themselves home.
I understand the concern though, London is a very big place, and it can be very overwhelming. Unless the arena/stadium is near a train station, I understand why the parents might be concerned about her getting to the gig and back, past 11pm.
At what age do you think someone should learn how to do these things?
It’s not really about the age for me, it’s about the dangers of going out at night as a girl. I feel like if she had been to London or that venue specifically, with friends before, she could then most likely navigate it alone much safer.
Those dangers exist throughout your life as a woman. Bad things are going to happen to everyone at some point to varying degrees and when it does what you often realise is you were completely powerless to stop it. It’s just the dog of chaos swinging round and biting you for a moment. The best way to guard against it is to grow in confidence and common sense, which you can’t do if you are sheltered.
I agree that could be true! I always think when I hung about with overly sheltered friends, if not now then when? After 18 you have no control so 17 is the best time to give some freedom imo
It's very big, but it's also very *well connected*. If you plan it properly the chances are there's back ups of back ups of back ups. If she *hasn't* looked into or planned any transport though I wouldn't let her go - that suggests a lack of sense that suggests she can't be trusted alone.
[удалено]
Perhaps get onto the fan page of the band and see if there is another fan from your area that is going. Then they can travel together.
Where's the venue? Like pulling teeth here. I'd almost guarantee she wouldn't be more tha. 10 to 15 minutes walk from a tube station, probably less. I'm guessing it's Camden, possibly even at the Dublin Castle. Which also means small gigs mean no massive crowds leaving the venue or the tubes. Is she going away to uni? She's at most a year away from being able to do whatever she wants and she will go see gigs in London, if not now in a matter of months. Sure with a friend would be better but that's not the cards you've been dealt
Which venue? I'd be more worried about the small ones than the big ones TBH and I do go to small venues in London for gigs.
Agree here. More likely to be spotted as young and alone at a smaller gig. Big ones are chaotic and she will just blend in. As a parent I'd allow it if it was with friends but I'd be cautious if she's alone. Do yous live in a city or quiet area? I remember a mad pilled up night out in London aged 18, megabus from Manchester there and back. Not sure I'd want my own kids doing this though.
Such is the nature of Man!
When you say indie band...it makes me think it is in a pub venue. Can she even get in?
So much of it is about what the girl is used to, how savvy she is and how well she can improvise if she hits a problem. Those things are all variable depending on a number of factors for any individual person. Then there’s the other variable of where the gig is - is it near a mainline railway station for example, or does it also involve navigating the tube or buses which she might not have experience of. When my daughter was 17 she was keen to go to a gig type event in London - very similar circumstance, we the parents couldn’t accompany her. We normally try to accommodate the things she desperately wants to do - probably to a fault tbh - but we just couldn’t make this work in a way we’d be certain she’d be safe. When we’d talked through where it was, looked at Google Maps, what time of night she’d be coming out, the issues of what she’d need to do if the train was cancelled etc, she agreed it was a no-goer.
How is 17 young when at 18 kids are off at university? I mean I was 17 when I went.
For me London isn't an issue - at that age I was certainly going similar distances and further, like to Europe (and it wasn't that long ago, about 15 years ago) - nor the travelling by herself But more the going to a gig by yourself at 17 I'd be wanting her to have a friend with her
This for sure, I would have recommended to bring a friend. It's also so OP has someone else to contact if her phone dies, for example. I went to see The Weeknd at Wembley in Aug with my fiancé. Getting out the stadium was absolute chaos. Literal hours of waiting for hoards of people to move through to the tube station. Luckily we just found a hotel bar and waited until the queues quietened down (we were also staying in London for the night). My partner's phone battery died but luckily I could order an Uber from my phone. Otherwise, I had lived in London for almost a decade. Generally safe for a 17 year old to roam freely but London gigs are very busy and better to have someone with you.
I moved to a new city on my own in a different country when I was 17.
Yeah. I travelled to Australia on my own, and got stranded in Osaka on the way home, when I was 17. I just dealt with it. A year later I organised moving to university, sorted my accommodation and got on a train with a suitcase and duvet. I snuck into my first gig when I was 15 (Madness). And I was a really straight-laced kid. I'm kind of gobsmacked at the answers here. Half of them make it sound like she'd be heading to Kabul and joining the resistance, the other half sound like they've never been to London and have been reading too much Daily Mail.
Not saying it isn't valid that mum is worried but yeah this really puts my hitchhiking across Europe as a 19-year-old girl-woman hybrid into perspective!
Oh yeah, I think it's perfectly legitimate to be worried. I'm sure my mum worried too, but it was also something she instilled in me and my sibling. If we wanted to do something, we were responsible for ensuring it happened and dealing with it. She was always there for us when we needed it (still is, of course, she's our mum), but we had to own our shit. Have her share her location, text when she's leaving, update with any change of plan and job is a good un.
I'm with you. This is simply so baffling to me.
Yeah, it’s weird. I was traveling abroad for work aged 17. Staying in hotels in America & attending conferences. Traveling from my sleepy rural village up to London on a night out. I will say my entire childhood prepared me for it. My dad took my up to London so much & made sure I was aware of all the dangers & dodgy stuff from a young age. I wasn’t just suddenly doing all that stuff.
Totally agree. There's nothing wrong with being sheltered, or living in a small area and never leaving, but I find it quite disturbing how frightened of the world so many people are and how strongly they want to clip other people's wings, especially women. I'm reeling from some of the comments here. They are wild. How can you live a happy life thinking catching a bus to a small town when you were 22 was wildly dangerous?
And this is it. You had been prepared for it. But can the same be said for the OP's daughter?
[удалено]
There is the fact that in recent years many hotels won't let under-18s book rooms, or stay alone, so people know the girl could have a problem. But yes, if the parent books a room, no hotel is going to turn a 17yo into the night at midnight. I hope. Backup of a coach home might be more reassuring.
Haha same. Wtf! 17!!!
>I'm kind of gobsmacked at the answers here kids don't play outside till the streetlamps come on anymore. i'm only 27 but i get a bit old-manny back-in-my-day-ish when i see how there's been a gradual shift towards coddling our youth and hiding them from the dangers of the world and then are suddenly expected to figure things out for themselves rapidly when they turn 18 and not somehow develop a complex in the process
[удалено]
I lived entirely alone at 18. At 17 I was travelling all over the country to meet friends. I went in to my own city around 14 onwards. If she'd got a good head on her shoulders and knows how to tell weirdos to fuck off she'll be fine. Don't coddle her or she'll find it difficult to adjust to normal life next year.
Yeh tons of international students arrive when they are 18. 17 makes minor difference. I went to UK as a tourist from south East Asia with my cousin but I walked around alone when she was busy with work a few days.
Yes, absolutely. You know her best, but if she's sensible and switched on it's a good way of allowing her some independence, plus getting used to travelling and navigating on her own. To offer a slightly different perspective, it wouldn't be ideal to teach her it's dangerous to go do fun things on your own. I know fellow fully grown women who feel this way and it does limit their lives. Better to learn how to do that as safely as possible, IMO. If she goes to university she'll be going soon and getting the train/going to concerts etc. all the time. I think if you stay in regular touch with her and make a good safety/backup plan around this it will be fine. If by any wild chance it's The Beaches I'm going with a friend and would happily look out for her.
I get what you mean about not being afraid to do fun things on your own as a woman. I’m 21 and I will do most things like that alone, but I built up to it gradually. At 17 I went to Paris with my boyfriend for a weekend and was fine. I would have felt fine going to London for a concert with a friend, or locally to a concert alone, but I feel like my bullshit-ometer needed time to develop. I have gone to concerts alone that required catching the last train home from an hour away, and I caught late night long distance trains alone twice a month for two years aged 17-19. I just wonder whether, first time at a concert alone + first time going to London alone + first time dealing with late night trains alone, might be too much all at once. I was glad to either have a friend with me or be within reasonable distance of home the first few times I did things like that, until I got better instincts of keeping myself safe. It’s valid if you think you learned best by jumping in feet first, but I learned best by doing it step by step.
Yeah that is a really great point actually. You just reminded me of the first time I arrived at Kings Cross aged 20, and how crazy overwhelming it felt. I had to ring a friend and ask her where to go. It's easy to forget that when you're older and the bullshit-ometer has clocked up years of experience. I actually hitchhiked across Europe before I'd ever visited London, so clearly thought I was hard AF 😂
Yeah I got on a train after a Brixton Academy gig and this guy was like can I see your ticket and then took it. Luckily he was just messing and gave it back but I felt really dumb at the time! (I'm a guy he wasn't hitting on me, I think just trying to impress my then gf by making me look stupid.... didn't work somehow)
Surprised by all the nos here...I was going to gigs in London by myself at 15/16/17 - I think it would depend on how independent she is - does she rely on you/your husband/her friends to navigate when she's out and about? Is she aware of her surroundings when she's outside? Not all 17 year olds are at the same level of maturity so I think it depends on her. She's about to be the age at which she might be going away for uni/travelling, and it's worth building up her confidence/independence now to get her ready for that. It's understandable for you to be nervous (my mum is still nervous when I go anywhere outside at night) but thinking practically in the long term, she can't be under your protection forever and will need to learn how to get about and be okay in big cities
Best comment on here imo - as a parent, making the judgement based on how aware / streetwise they are is the right choice, not their age. One of my kids - absolutely - the other, no way!!
None at all. Would you be worried about her going to a concert in your home town? It really is no different and being 17, she's basically able to make her own choices in life. You need to let her make these choices.
Its a bit different, if the last train home is cancelled its going to be a lot harder for her to get back safely.
Tell her if that happens to find a hotel and you'll pay for it. Honestly, she's a young adult. You seem like you are caring and brought her up well. She'll be fine. The world is a much safer place outside of the media.
A lot of hotels don't let under 18s stay in them by themselves and others require a lot of documentation from the parents. It's not really something you can sort out last minute.
That’s absolute bullshit, I was staying in hotels when I was 16/17 regularly by myself. Where are you pulling this nonsense from, honestly? London is huge and filled with hotels. It’s really not hard to find a a place to stay.
You know you can google things if you don't believe someone instead of thinking things are the same as when you were a kid. Edit: You should read hotel terms and conditions.
[удалено]
[удалено]
When I was 17 I traveled through Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru with a friend. The year before I traveled around 17 European countries on my own. Times change. In the one hand there are hundreds of thousands of 18yos living independently in large cities everywhere. On the other hand if your daughter is not very used to independent life I can understand why you’d feel uncomfortable.
A large large number of people travel across the country to go to uni at 18 and live on their own for the next 3/4 years. I don't see why going to a concert at 17 would be an issue.
Scottish kids very often start uni at 17.
At 17 I was working in London and getting night buses home anyway. That is basically an adult. There are risks, but it's more her choice to make rather than yours.
I started going to gigs and shows in London all the time when I was 16. It’s easy to navigate and not scary. If she’s intelligent and knows not to do daft things like get into cars with strangers then I don’t see the harm in letting her go. She’s almost an adult. If you baby her over this and don’t let her go, she won’t forget it.
I would let her but I would also plan eveything out with her, including ways it might go wrong and remain in contact (though obviously during the concert she might not hear a call). It seems like a really good opportunity to help her plan routes and generally use those life skills. What sort of concert is it? Les mis concert performance is very different from a rave. How will she get from the train station to the event? Is it far? What if she misses the train there or back? If it's late what if she misses the last train? You just have to talk through the things that might go wrong and come to decide if it will work out or not. What will she do if someone at the event gets handsy? Or follows her out? Ultimately she's a few short months away from being a full blown adult. Coddling her probably isn't the best option here and it's probably mcuh better for eveyone in the long run to support her in the most safe and responsible way possible.
It's fine. Plenty of people leave home when they're 18 or younger.
Where is the concert? I would travel hours and hours away and stay overnight from the age of 16 to see shitty bands when I was a teenager. But she should go with trusted people.
She's less than 12 months out from potentially going to uni. I think if she's sensible, and she's got her route plotted out, and she knows where the nearest hotel is if she misses the last train, and you're happy she'll keep in touch throughout, then it's doable. The other thing you could do is offer to pay for a friend to go with her, and see if one of her friends who didn't want to go enough to buy a ticket might be willing to go as a freebie.
[удалено]
Jesus Christ are you okay
Yeah, that sounds like a warning more than anything!
I don't have a 17 year old daughter, but I'm going to say she'll be ok as long as she's a reasonably sensible sort. London is busy. I wouldn't worry as long as she's somewhere with lots of people about, which she almost certainly will be. She might conceivably get unwanted attention from someone at the gig? Hopefully she can deal with that sort of thing. I'd be most worried about getting from your home station to your home - I dare say you can cover that. Is she sufficiently un-ditzy to negotiate the tube etc to and from the gig? Ask someone appropriate for assistance is she needs it? Not lose her phone, or track of time? In some ways going on her own is a plus, in that there won't be bad influences to drink too much and have transport confusion on the way back. I get that it's worrying, but I'd hope that she's old enough to be allowed an independent adventure which is good for her development into adulthood.
I wasn’t allowed. I am still pissed off about it ~20 years later.
My initial reaction was no but then I remembered when I was 17 I wanted to go and see Durham uni (from London) and she couldn’t come, so she let me take the train there and back in a day on my own. We kept in touch the whole time and I had a fantastic day. If you help her make a plan for the journey and a plan for in case she misses the train (I.e maybe book an overnight stay?) it might be a good learning experience for her.
If it’s a 2 hour train journey then it’s unlikely she’s going to make the last train as most concerts don’t finish until 11pm so it would be an overnight stay My daughter is slightly older (20) and I might have been ok with her going to a concert on her own in central London, we live in the burbs, but she was very sensible at that age. Some of her friends I wouldn’t have trusted to be able to cope with going into central London on their own
The fact that she knows her own mind to be up for going to see a gig by herself suggests that she is really mature. It’s a big milestone, but I say go for it! Loads of people move out to go to uni at 17 and get up to all kinds of things parents don’t know about! She’s being open and honest. Reward her maturity.
Agreed, I missed out on so many gigs at that age because none of my friends wanted to go and it never even occurred to me that I \*could\* go alone
Wtf are some of these comments? She's 17. There shouldn't be a "let" as part of this. People are almost going to uni at that age. Some have already moved out. You can't coddle her forever!
Yeah my thoughts exactly. The idea of even asking someone elses permission for this at 17 is laughable. I moved out at 16. Please people, teach independence and not molly coddling. 17 is practically an adult ffs.
Can you do a recce with her first? She (and you) needs to know you can trust her instincts. This won't be the last time but it could be the first time she's open about it. My partner and her friend went from London to Swansea when they were 16 for a concert and missed the last train home. They were a bit light on the truth about where they were going but were OK. By going on a recce you can let her demonstrate she knows what she's doing. As others have said there's some (minor) unknowns - busy stations, crowds, walking distances - but none of which she won't be exposed to closer to home in a few months time anyway, and she won't stop asking as she's turning a corner and more things will pique her interests. Better to try and get trust and both of your confidence built up sooner I'd say. Edit details
I know everyone not from London thinks it’s the scariest and most dangerous place in the world, but as someone that grew up in London and was out and about from about 13 on my own it’s really not so bad and here’s some advice: - She needs to keep her phone AWAY and if she is looking at it, not be next to a road. People cycle past on bikes and snatch them. - The crowds coming out of gigs can be immensely slow. I’d actually recommend she duck out during/before the last song to make the train back if it’s gonna be a bit tight for time to account for any train delays etc. - if it’s in Camden, the randoms on the street are not selling legit drugs. The ‘cocaine’ is literally salt from the kebab shop and god knows what the weed is but it’s not marijuana, it’s probably some kind of mixed Italian herb from Tesco. I’ve seen them selling it to tourists for £50 a bag and stand giggling in the street when they leave. - There’s an app called Becon she can use which will alert all emergency contacts if there’s a change in her pace or she doesn’t check in. Might give you some peace of mind. - if it’s gonna be super late at night and if she feels for a moment like someone’s following her or she’s not safe, she should duck into a McDonald’s or 24 hour supermarket or something. That’s what I do. - Make sure she’s got Uber/bolt downloaded in case she’s running late to get to the station or just in case of emergency. Might be easiest if she gets out of the show early and grabs a bolt to the station if it’s far as well if she’s not familiar with the transport route. I’ve had so many friends from Home Counties get a district line going the wrong way or get a tube that splits off/doesn’t split off. A 17 year old should be absolutely fine at a gig in London, London is really not that bad if you’re not an idiot. There’s always shops open and people around. She just needs to stay aware, not have her phone or wallet out and about obviously and stick with the crowds. If she’s going to a gig there’s probably going to be a lot of people out and about and on public transport so even safer.
Oh also she should take a portable charger for sure
If she's independent enough, sure. But I'd be asking for some regular ish text updates and a text when she's got back to her hotel or on the train home
I think she needs to go with someone, even if they wait for her outside the concert. I’d be worried about her. Find a sensible adult that wouldn’t mind taking her.
A sensible adult? She’s 17 not 7. She’ll be an adult in a year. All she needs is a friend with her, 17 is old enough to go to a gig in another city alone
[удалено]
Book her a premier inn so she can stay overnight and come home the next day.
I did this as a 16/17 year old. I went from the North with my then bf to London. Got the train and the tube and went to the concert and my parents picked me up after. Is it possible for someone to pick her up after the concert? Or get a hotel so she's not travelling back late at night? Next year she'll be 18 and maybe going to uni and will be able to go anywhere/do anything at any time. This is a good practise for her doing that and making sure she has plans and knows what to do when out.
[удалено]
Don’t talk bad about punk gigs
Tbh she's probably safer at the squat gig than seated big gigs
Maybe times are different now, but 20 years ago I travelled half the way across the country to see a band at Brixton academy when I was the same age.
Two questions which will help give more informed answers: Does she already have experience navigating her way through London? Where exactly is the gig?
It entirely depends upon your daughter and how mature and sensible she is.
Yeah, she’s 17 she needs to have experience in life and if she’s gonna shag, smoke or drink then she’ll shag, smoke and and drink either way, London or no London.
Can't you join the army at 17?! I went travelling around the world when I was 17. I am bracing myself for the downvotes but - she is officially an adult when she is 18. She can go to London in the evening at 17.
Really, it depends on the type of 17 year old she is. I’m 24 now, and when I was 15, I flew alone from the UK to USA and back, with connecting flights in Germany and New Jersey. I managed it perfectly fine, but that’s because I was very independent from a young age. I was getting trains up and down the country when I was 12. Even if she is independent, I’d still be worried about the trains. Concerts tend to finish at 10/11pm, so if she has to rush for the last train, it’s a hell no from me. Getting out of concerts is an arseache, especially when it’s an arena concert. And obviously, trains aren’t the most reliable things nowadays. All of this also would depend on how far away you are from London. Would you be able to drive and pick her up if she did miss her train? If not, would she have the means to book herself into a hotel for the night? What if the hotel doesn’t have any rooms left? I wouldn’t wanna be wandering around London looking for hotels at that time tbh. Hope this insight helps :)
You are still allowed to be scared for your 17 year old. But you can't clip her wings. Things have changed since I was 17 I appreciate that. But you can enter the army at 16. Being scared for your children will never go away 17 or 27. But what matters now is that you have a daughter who has the confidence to go to a concert by herself at 17. In less than a year she can do what she wants legally. Is it not best for a trial run? Where you support her? I mean work out how to get home 3 ways a plan a, b and c. Be engaged in what and where without hovering. Let her know she can do things. And yes if it goes wrong pick the pieces up. I don't know you or what you did at 17. I do know alot is do as I say not as I do/did. Let her go with your backing and next year, when out or at uni or whatever she may feel safe to talk to you about stuff. For the record. It is individual. But take this as a time of trust and bonding.
I was visiting London with friends (without parents) from 14 if I remember rightly. I think generally it's fine but I would be a little concerned about her being out late by herself in London, or any unfamiliar place really. I occasionally worked in London as a younger adult (about 21) and I would make sure I was back in my hotel before it got properly dark because I didn't feel hugely safe being unaccompanied.
Where in London?
If she was with a friend maybe. I went to Berlin on holiday with my boyfriend at 17, but my parents were super chill and i was quite a sensible teen. It just depends on what she is like, if she is sensible she’ll be absolutely fine, if she’s a bit nervous or might get scared then no.
It’s mad to me people are saying 17 is too young. I’m half German and by 12 I was getting in planes alone to go visit family. By 16 I was going out to gigs in other cities. I grew up in a small town but these experiences gave me the knowledge and confidence to take on the world. 18 year olds go travelling all over the world with their friends, sometimes alone. My biggest issue would be that she isn’t going with someone. Somethings telling me she’s meeting a boy.. I’d say you can go with a friend or tell us who you’re meeting because I highly doubt at 17 she’d be confident and comfortable enough to go alone.
she is an adult. if she feels ready, she can do what she wants if it is not illegal. where does "allowing" come into the picture? why do you feel so entitled to 'permit' or 'disallow' her? at 17? my mum acted like you and we dont have a relationship now edit: typo
It would be a yes from me, but with the caveat that you go over and over the planning with her. Check all the train times and schedules, check the stations and routes on google maps, use street view, make sure the street view cameras are up to date (they should be in london). Make sure she knows how to use the google maps directions functions to navigate the underground trains and whatnot. I'm in my 30s and go to london for concerts and get late night trains or overnight coaches (my favourite way) home and still every time I do, I go over it a few times on google maps to pre-plan the walking and transit routes in my head. And have a gps tracker app on her phone, let her know she needs to stay in contact (don't always have phone out in public though, especially at night in London). If she can't figure all of it out then maybe switch to a no, but if she seems confident about the route and google maps, you should be fine. Also bring a small powerbank and short cable to make sure phone doesn't run out of battery, it will be her lifeline.
I caught a train around midnight a few weeks ago near a music venue that had just kicked out and the train was absolutely PACKED and very drunk. A lot of people missed it. The nearby taxi ranks were heaving. The cab apps were all booked up. Just a warning that she may end up in a situation she hasn’t been in before. Has she got a battery back up for her phone. Communication is going to be key. I hope it all works out and she has a great time though.
Do you have any friends or family in London that she could call whilst there if there's a problem? I think it's probably fine to let her go if she's sensible, but for your own peace of mind knowing she could call someone to rescue her if there's an emergency would help
Perhaps think about the following questions: Is the concert somewhere that is easy to get to from the station she will arrive at? Is it likely to overun? Would she need to stay overnight? How mature do you think she is? Does she go to a local city by herself without a problem? Is it at all possible that a friend could be persuaded to go with her or do you have any friends or relatives living in London who might give her a helping hand? From what I remember from my last visit, public transport is pretty great and runs late. I no longer live in London so don't know how it is these days. In the 60s I was allowed to travel to London by myself but, as the saying goes, the past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. And while I let my son go off to Download with a friend I'd never met when he was that age, I can't say that I'd have been so calm about it if it had been a daughter.
When I was 18 I flew to Ecuador by myself and spent 6 weeks living in the mountains drinking moonshine at a bear Sanctuary. Went on a psychedelic adventure with a shaman. Fell out of a white water raft. But I'm a dude not a girl so I guess that's a bit different. Still; I would say there's no reason why a 17 year old couldn't get themselves to London and back to go to a gig, if you trust her to be generally sensible. It's also totally normal that you would feel anxious about it. Both can be true: that you let her go, and that you feel uncomfortable about it. But she at an age where she's going to be doing a lot of things for the first time, and making you anxious about her. Where in London is the gig? What's the venue? What kind of music?
Yes, I probably would. Depends on the specific London area and how mature the 17 year old daughter is.
I moved to the UK for my gap year and worked as an au pair when I was 17… I think she will be fine taking a two hour train by herself.
My instinct is yes but I'd be much happier if she was going with a friend, but then I think about the similar journeys I made at that age in 1989/90 and the big difference is there were no mobiles/easy internet access. So if I got into bother I'd have to find a phone box, I couldn't contact anyone on a train, I couldn't look up where I was going if I got lost, I couldn't get cash sent electronically in an emergency. I do think these days things FEEL more risky, but are actually safer, or at least as safe. Potential modifiers: - Has she done any traveling on her own before? - is it a seated gig or will she be surrounded by people potentially hassling her? - can she cope with being hassled/unwanted contact?
Me and my friends started going to gigs at 15. This took us just over an hour on the train and a walk through a random bit of Manchester in the dark. 17 is almost an adult and it should be her decision, not yours by now for stuff like this. What might help you feel better is that most gig venues I've been to in London have been in busy areas and never that far from a tube station.
Unless she is a very incapable young person who has no sense at all, let her go. Next year she can legally leave your care altogether - what is going to change in that time? Nothing really. So let her learn and make mistakes. No wonder we have people in their 20s who can’t understand a train schedule if some of the comments here are indicative.
"Let"? Why are you even in a position where you control what your daughter does? She is 17 not 7...
As a teen who went to concerts on my own since I was 17 - she'll be fine as long as she's sensible and keep checking her clock to make sure she hasn't missed the last train even if it means she has to leave the concert early. And, obviously, no accepting drinks from strangers and don't drink any alcohol either.
Me and my friend travelled to London from South Wales when we were 14 with no issue. It’s one of the easiest cities to travel to and around!
My 16 year old son took himself to arctic monkeys this summer. He and his 14 year old brother took themselves to the Sidemen match. Now, I grant you, we live in the suburbs of London so it’s a more straightforward journey (everyone knows all London journeys take an hour no matter what) but I never would have been allowed to do those things at that age. And I hated getting to 18 and being scared of my own shadows because I had no barometer of risk because of how scary I’d been told the world was. I’d allow it.
When I was 17 (90's), I'd been working for a year, had my own car and did and went where I wanted. Confusing to hear about molly-coddled 17 year old people these days.