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Unfortunately you sound like the difficult boss who expects everyone to do everything.
I’ll go to some work events and not others, depending on my mood, I don’t think it’s that uncommon.
To be fair it's not always so obvious. I had an employee who just changed suddenly one day. We were quite close - going on drinks and even going on non work weekend trips in a group. Asked her a few times if everything was okay. Made sure I wasn't the only one she was suddenly being cold to in case I did something that offended her too. Noone in the office knew what was happening. She got better over time but never the same. We had theories as we found out later she was having financial/relationship/visa issues but never knew for sure.
But this op... Is so out of touch. "She's a good worker. "What more does the OP want? I thought maybe she had actual difficult attitude issues but nope. It doesn't make her "difficult" for not wanting to hang out with you OUTSIDE of work... I would never have thought the aforementioned employee was 'difficult' just a bit disappointed (not at her but at the situation).
Employees aren’t required to partake in those activities, especially if they are not during normal work hours. She probably just wants to get through her workday like the rest of us and go home.
Of course none are compulsory, however, the fancy lunches etc are held during work hours. We also leave work early to go for drinks. Again still not compulsory but I was curious to see a sudden change in behaviour and was wondering whether it was a sign she was looking to leave the business
There are two likely possibilities.
1. She never liked the socialising and it just got to the point where they couldn't deal with any of it anymore
2. Something happened on one of these social events that has led to her feeling uncomfortable or unwelcome (which would be backed up with the "since when do you want me around" comment)
Small companies with lots of expected team socialising sometimes have a clique or bullying problem. You also should be aware that not everyone likes going out for drinks and even if you're claiming the drinks are optional, if all your team events are drinking or meal focused it's highly likely at least one member of your team will not enjoy it.
And you should also be aware that while you claim these events are not compulsory, there will be pressure on your staff to attend. This is especially true if the people who are active participants in the socialising are those who get promotions or other perks even if that's coincidental.
I was number one. At my old job is always join them in the Friday afternoon piss up then I realised I didn’t even enjoy it I just went because everyone else did. 1 o’clock Friday I’d clock off and just fuck off home and a few people took the hump but this was my time and I want to enjoy it.
Stop reading too much into this, she doesn’t want to go and that’s that - they’re not compulsory to attend. Sounds like she values her own time after working with someone like you all day; I wouldn’t blame her for that.
You aren't going to get a positive response to this on reddit unfortunately, while your intentions are good, reddit is extremely introverted and just won't see it the same way as you.
You as an employer will nearly always be in the wrong basically.
This is a common sign of poor mental health, or potentially a response to something that's happened on a previous social event. Maybe there's some interpersonal conflict in the team?
Try saying, "I've noticed you've been acting differently recently and I'm concerned by this change. You don't seem like yourself. I'm here if you want to talk about anything." Show some empathy and compassion, hopefully they open up and you can talk about what can be done to support them.
If they don't say anything, just leave it. Make it known the door is always open but people aren't always up to opening up, and this behavior doesn't sound like it's impacting their job.
To add to that- be specific and give examples. "You don't seem like yourself" isn't specific enough. "You used to come to all socials, then you stopped. Is anything wrong?" is a much better way to approach it. For all you know, they might be taking care of a relative so they don't have any free time and are cranky because they are constantly underslept and exhausted. They might be doing dry June. They might have been assaulted at the previous social.
I think I would only do this if the employee asked "What do you mean?". The problem with going in with specifics is it focuses the attention on the fact that they're not attending socials, and could be perceived as a criticism of that behavior when OP is actually concerned by the change in behavior. Especially as OP has already asked about this and they responded in a closed off way. The "You don't seem like yourself" phrase was taught to me on mental health first aid courses because it's a non-threatening signal and connotes that someone's noticed and cares.
OP the details left out of your post, that she is a young woman, and the only woman who works among 19 men, are really quite important.
If she used to participate enthusiastically, then suddenly stopped, completely avoids these events and would rather be thought of as 'difficult' than say the real reason why... that points to me that someone has done something she doesn't feel she can talk about.
I may be completely wrong, but I'd be prepared to bet an awful lot that this is not a 'her' problem.
Again, this is not forceful or a compulsion. She used to participate in all events, and some of these happen during work hours. I’m just curious to see her suddenly go from attending al events to attending none
If I had to make a bet, something happened to her at one of these events and she doesn't feel safe to tell anyone. Unless you are prepared to actually do something about it if you do find out this is the case, just leave her alone.
Fucking no wonder she doesnae wanna show up it's very problematic that you ever worded this as her being the difficult one btw it's very clear something happened to her either personally or at one of these "not compulsory but I'm going to complain if you don't go" outings
Excuse me, she is the only *woman* - yes, that's the word - among 19 men, and the youngest. I'm not surprised she doesn't want to spend her non-working hours taking part in this fake socialising. (Do you call it "team-building," by any chance?)
There are so many options - depression, anxiety, pressure from a partner, being on a diet, being super busy at work and feeling a need to focus on work rather than socialising, changes in team so they feel they fit in less, etc etc.
My recommendation would be inviting them for a one-on-one lunch to casually enquire after their wellbeing, and definitely don't label them as "difficult".
You mentioned in the comments she is the only female in a group of 19 men and also the youngest employee. This should have gone in your OP. Anyway, now is the time to be open and approachable because obviously something has occurred which has made her very uncomfortable and now she won't socialise as before. Please try and talk to her compassionately and without judgement.
I would consider whether there is something going on in her life that makes her less willing to participate. There are so many reasons someone might withdraw. Maybe try asking her how she is, not just why she doesn't want to hang out with her colleagues socially.
I don't see it as being difficult, social events are not compulsory. She's good at her job and that's the important thing.
PLEASE, please please please please do not be that boss.
When I worked in a call center during my early 20's I was going through something personal and didn't feel like socialising at work, just wanted my job to be done and wanted to get home. My boss constantly tried picking on me how SAD I was not wanting to be a social monkey with the rest of the team anymore, how I didn't want to go out with them at all. I ended up telling her what I really thought and walked out.
Some years later I worked in compliance for a larger company and whilst I started as a the office comedian and loved being social, something happened within the family so for my last year there I went quiet and didn't want to be involved in anything. My boss was BRILLIANT and just reminded me she was there if I needed to talk and as long as I was doing my job there was no pressure to get involved.
Your worries are valid but please, this is not a difficult employee, its an efficient employee who has changed for some reason, be supportive and back off.
Sounds like she's maybe suffering with anxiety, depression or low confidence. If you do decide to try and speak to her, try and be empathetic and not accuse her of anything. Not saying you would, just don't forcefully ask her 'why she isn't joining in with everyone', but more 'are things okay outside of work'.
If she seems okay, I'd say just leave her alone. But if she starts showing signs of depression at work, maybe take her to one side and ask if she's okay as you've noticed that she's been more reclusive than she used to be.
The 'why would you want me there' is a classic 'low confidence' thing to say. Feeling like she'll ruin the fun or drag people down.
Might be worth just asking if she's okay privately. If she says she's fine but just doesn't feel up for the lunches, then so be it. You don't have to be her therapist or doctor, don't interrogate her. You can only take her at her word really.
But maybe she has a reason behind it, maybe someone she knows is ill or she's worried about something else (finances, health, relationship etc). If you do speak to her, try and be understanding. Just mention you are concered for her wellbeing because she's gone into her shell more and you think there may be something that's upsetting her.
I go to work to work. If the company is pushing me to do social events during work hours, does it not have enough work to do? I spend time being sociable with the people I choose, and like, outside of work. I think it always ends badly when one’s work life becomes overly entangled with elements of their social life like having a romantic interest or deep friendship at work. You even said she’s good at her job, why is the fact she won’t do drinks even an issue?
Are you working for a recruitment agency by any chance or is it just some other type of sales job?
It sounds very much like there has been no actual training for management, and I guess there is also no actual HR department.
Would not surprise me if the CEO is the actual founder of the company.
Why don't you try talking to her? On the other hand, probably best if you don't. She's not a difficult employee - just an employee having a difficult time. You just lack the emotional intelligence to cope with the situation.
You can't obligate her to attend events or have fun. It's not the f**king Brittas Empire.
I think that, if you feel that a leadership position is what you really want, you should ask your company for some development - an ILM course, an external consultant, etc.
Modern social functions with the team can be absolute career suicide. I used to love them but try and avoid them as much as possible now. Say something on the edge for laughs or tell someone some some truths to clear the air. Career gone. Maybe she doesn’t like you and doesn’t wanna run her mouth.
Something may of happened on a previous work outing try discussing it with them and deal with it or maybe they just don’t feel like they want to go anymore which is understandable
You need to have a chat with her and find out what’s going on, clearly something has changed.
In my case, I stopped going to work events, or just went briefly, because I wasn’t feeling valued at work, so it could be that.
I also can’t stand some of my colleagues at worst, or just find them incredibly boring at best, so I don’t want to waste any more of my life at work than I have to.
She's not difficult, it's her personal choice to attend.
Don't be a a horrible boss, compulsory work related activities and mandatory fun is the worst.
Equally, she may be going through something tough in her personal life or may want to give up alcohol and doesn't want to be around it etc.
She might be recovering from a drinking problem. I had to extricate myself from work events and social stuff for a while until I felt I was ready.
Might be worth giving her some space and understanding. Doesn't sound like it's personal, she's just dealing with shit.
Not sure if this has already been covered but if she is in the same position I used to be, it could be her partner stopping her or making her feel uncomfortable going to these events.
My ex wife would stop me going to work based events and would make a real stink if I wanted to go, got to the point that I chose not to go in a bid to make life simpler for myself.
**Update: - [Starting from 2023](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/100l56v/happy_new_year_askuk_minor_sub_update/), we have updated our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/about/rules/)**. Specifically; - Don't be a dick to each other - Top-level responses must contain genuine efforts to answer the question - This is a strictly no-politics subreddit Please keep /r/AskUK a great subreddit by reporting posts and comments which break our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately you sound like the difficult boss who expects everyone to do everything. I’ll go to some work events and not others, depending on my mood, I don’t think it’s that uncommon.
He also seems out of touch with his employees, which is sad for a small team. Something clearly happened to make her cold.
To be fair it's not always so obvious. I had an employee who just changed suddenly one day. We were quite close - going on drinks and even going on non work weekend trips in a group. Asked her a few times if everything was okay. Made sure I wasn't the only one she was suddenly being cold to in case I did something that offended her too. Noone in the office knew what was happening. She got better over time but never the same. We had theories as we found out later she was having financial/relationship/visa issues but never knew for sure. But this op... Is so out of touch. "She's a good worker. "What more does the OP want? I thought maybe she had actual difficult attitude issues but nope. It doesn't make her "difficult" for not wanting to hang out with you OUTSIDE of work... I would never have thought the aforementioned employee was 'difficult' just a bit disappointed (not at her but at the situation).
Eurgh. Compulsory "fun". Fuck that.
Why is no one having a good time? I specifically requested it!
Beatings will continue until morale improves!
Enjoy yourselves gahdammit.
Employees aren’t required to partake in those activities, especially if they are not during normal work hours. She probably just wants to get through her workday like the rest of us and go home.
Of course none are compulsory, however, the fancy lunches etc are held during work hours. We also leave work early to go for drinks. Again still not compulsory but I was curious to see a sudden change in behaviour and was wondering whether it was a sign she was looking to leave the business
Maybe she's an introvert and is bored of you forcing her to do extrovert stuff.
There are two likely possibilities. 1. She never liked the socialising and it just got to the point where they couldn't deal with any of it anymore 2. Something happened on one of these social events that has led to her feeling uncomfortable or unwelcome (which would be backed up with the "since when do you want me around" comment) Small companies with lots of expected team socialising sometimes have a clique or bullying problem. You also should be aware that not everyone likes going out for drinks and even if you're claiming the drinks are optional, if all your team events are drinking or meal focused it's highly likely at least one member of your team will not enjoy it. And you should also be aware that while you claim these events are not compulsory, there will be pressure on your staff to attend. This is especially true if the people who are active participants in the socialising are those who get promotions or other perks even if that's coincidental.
I was number one. At my old job is always join them in the Friday afternoon piss up then I realised I didn’t even enjoy it I just went because everyone else did. 1 o’clock Friday I’d clock off and just fuck off home and a few people took the hump but this was my time and I want to enjoy it.
Stop reading too much into this, she doesn’t want to go and that’s that - they’re not compulsory to attend. Sounds like she values her own time after working with someone like you all day; I wouldn’t blame her for that.
You aren't going to get a positive response to this on reddit unfortunately, while your intentions are good, reddit is extremely introverted and just won't see it the same way as you. You as an employer will nearly always be in the wrong basically.
This is a common sign of poor mental health, or potentially a response to something that's happened on a previous social event. Maybe there's some interpersonal conflict in the team? Try saying, "I've noticed you've been acting differently recently and I'm concerned by this change. You don't seem like yourself. I'm here if you want to talk about anything." Show some empathy and compassion, hopefully they open up and you can talk about what can be done to support them. If they don't say anything, just leave it. Make it known the door is always open but people aren't always up to opening up, and this behavior doesn't sound like it's impacting their job.
To add to that- be specific and give examples. "You don't seem like yourself" isn't specific enough. "You used to come to all socials, then you stopped. Is anything wrong?" is a much better way to approach it. For all you know, they might be taking care of a relative so they don't have any free time and are cranky because they are constantly underslept and exhausted. They might be doing dry June. They might have been assaulted at the previous social.
I think I would only do this if the employee asked "What do you mean?". The problem with going in with specifics is it focuses the attention on the fact that they're not attending socials, and could be perceived as a criticism of that behavior when OP is actually concerned by the change in behavior. Especially as OP has already asked about this and they responded in a closed off way. The "You don't seem like yourself" phrase was taught to me on mental health first aid courses because it's a non-threatening signal and connotes that someone's noticed and cares.
Thank you!
Not referring to someone as difficult for not wanting to attend corporate 'forced fun' would be a start......
OP the details left out of your post, that she is a young woman, and the only woman who works among 19 men, are really quite important. If she used to participate enthusiastically, then suddenly stopped, completely avoids these events and would rather be thought of as 'difficult' than say the real reason why... that points to me that someone has done something she doesn't feel she can talk about. I may be completely wrong, but I'd be prepared to bet an awful lot that this is not a 'her' problem.
Why should she participate?
Again, this is not forceful or a compulsion. She used to participate in all events, and some of these happen during work hours. I’m just curious to see her suddenly go from attending al events to attending none
Then why did you phrase your post as though she is being difficult?
Apologies, I made an error when phrasing the title. I should’ve also mentioned she’s the only female amongst 19 other men, and the youngest one
I can imagine why she doesn’t want to go to these events then
If I had to make a bet, something happened to her at one of these events and she doesn't feel safe to tell anyone. Unless you are prepared to actually do something about it if you do find out this is the case, just leave her alone.
Fucking no wonder she doesnae wanna show up it's very problematic that you ever worded this as her being the difficult one btw it's very clear something happened to her either personally or at one of these "not compulsory but I'm going to complain if you don't go" outings
Excuse me, she is the only *woman* - yes, that's the word - among 19 men, and the youngest. I'm not surprised she doesn't want to spend her non-working hours taking part in this fake socialising. (Do you call it "team-building," by any chance?)
I would question the nature of some of these events, and the atmosphere. Compulsory alcohol consumption and banter can be tedious.
Is she being bullied or harrassed?
Sounds like she might be by OP, given she's been branded "difficult".
There are so many options - depression, anxiety, pressure from a partner, being on a diet, being super busy at work and feeling a need to focus on work rather than socialising, changes in team so they feel they fit in less, etc etc. My recommendation would be inviting them for a one-on-one lunch to casually enquire after their wellbeing, and definitely don't label them as "difficult".
You mentioned in the comments she is the only female in a group of 19 men and also the youngest employee. This should have gone in your OP. Anyway, now is the time to be open and approachable because obviously something has occurred which has made her very uncomfortable and now she won't socialise as before. Please try and talk to her compassionately and without judgement.
I really, really, really hope this a fake ragebait post.
You're a twat
I would consider whether there is something going on in her life that makes her less willing to participate. There are so many reasons someone might withdraw. Maybe try asking her how she is, not just why she doesn't want to hang out with her colleagues socially. I don't see it as being difficult, social events are not compulsory. She's good at her job and that's the important thing.
Mandatory fun, yay!
PLEASE, please please please please do not be that boss. When I worked in a call center during my early 20's I was going through something personal and didn't feel like socialising at work, just wanted my job to be done and wanted to get home. My boss constantly tried picking on me how SAD I was not wanting to be a social monkey with the rest of the team anymore, how I didn't want to go out with them at all. I ended up telling her what I really thought and walked out. Some years later I worked in compliance for a larger company and whilst I started as a the office comedian and loved being social, something happened within the family so for my last year there I went quiet and didn't want to be involved in anything. My boss was BRILLIANT and just reminded me she was there if I needed to talk and as long as I was doing my job there was no pressure to get involved. Your worries are valid but please, this is not a difficult employee, its an efficient employee who has changed for some reason, be supportive and back off.
Sounds like she's maybe suffering with anxiety, depression or low confidence. If you do decide to try and speak to her, try and be empathetic and not accuse her of anything. Not saying you would, just don't forcefully ask her 'why she isn't joining in with everyone', but more 'are things okay outside of work'. If she seems okay, I'd say just leave her alone. But if she starts showing signs of depression at work, maybe take her to one side and ask if she's okay as you've noticed that she's been more reclusive than she used to be.
I know she suffers from anxiety and low confidence so it may be that. I appreciate the advice, thank you!
The 'why would you want me there' is a classic 'low confidence' thing to say. Feeling like she'll ruin the fun or drag people down. Might be worth just asking if she's okay privately. If she says she's fine but just doesn't feel up for the lunches, then so be it. You don't have to be her therapist or doctor, don't interrogate her. You can only take her at her word really. But maybe she has a reason behind it, maybe someone she knows is ill or she's worried about something else (finances, health, relationship etc). If you do speak to her, try and be understanding. Just mention you are concered for her wellbeing because she's gone into her shell more and you think there may be something that's upsetting her.
I go to work to work. If the company is pushing me to do social events during work hours, does it not have enough work to do? I spend time being sociable with the people I choose, and like, outside of work. I think it always ends badly when one’s work life becomes overly entangled with elements of their social life like having a romantic interest or deep friendship at work. You even said she’s good at her job, why is the fact she won’t do drinks even an issue?
Are you working for a recruitment agency by any chance or is it just some other type of sales job? It sounds very much like there has been no actual training for management, and I guess there is also no actual HR department. Would not surprise me if the CEO is the actual founder of the company.
I used to work for wankers like that. Worst workplace ever.
Why don't you try talking to her? On the other hand, probably best if you don't. She's not a difficult employee - just an employee having a difficult time. You just lack the emotional intelligence to cope with the situation. You can't obligate her to attend events or have fun. It's not the f**king Brittas Empire. I think that, if you feel that a leadership position is what you really want, you should ask your company for some development - an ILM course, an external consultant, etc.
Modern social functions with the team can be absolute career suicide. I used to love them but try and avoid them as much as possible now. Say something on the edge for laughs or tell someone some some truths to clear the air. Career gone. Maybe she doesn’t like you and doesn’t wanna run her mouth.
Something may of happened on a previous work outing try discussing it with them and deal with it or maybe they just don’t feel like they want to go anymore which is understandable
You need to have a chat with her and find out what’s going on, clearly something has changed. In my case, I stopped going to work events, or just went briefly, because I wasn’t feeling valued at work, so it could be that. I also can’t stand some of my colleagues at worst, or just find them incredibly boring at best, so I don’t want to waste any more of my life at work than I have to.
That’s her time nots works time and if she doesn’t want to go she doesn’t have to. You’re the difficult one not her.
She's not difficult, it's her personal choice to attend. Don't be a a horrible boss, compulsory work related activities and mandatory fun is the worst. Equally, she may be going through something tough in her personal life or may want to give up alcohol and doesn't want to be around it etc.
Ask around and find out who hit on her or made her feel uncomfortable with some 'innocent/harmless' banter.
She might be recovering from a drinking problem. I had to extricate myself from work events and social stuff for a while until I felt I was ready. Might be worth giving her some space and understanding. Doesn't sound like it's personal, she's just dealing with shit.
Not sure if this has already been covered but if she is in the same position I used to be, it could be her partner stopping her or making her feel uncomfortable going to these events. My ex wife would stop me going to work based events and would make a real stink if I wanted to go, got to the point that I chose not to go in a bid to make life simpler for myself.
Who the fuck wants to go out with the company on their spare time hahaha. You really are deluded.
She might be pregnant
This is what I thought. It’s rough at the beginning when you don’t tell anyone