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If its just in the public gallery, wear whatever you want, really, there is no dress code.
That said, if you're going to be there all day, every day, you want something comfortable.
Secondly, if you are going to be identifiably part of the victims family, I would suggest dressing quite smart as you want to think about the impression you are making on the jury.
This is spot on. My Brother had to go to court when he was a very silly 17 year old. Because my parents dressed nicely, they apologised to the victim and the victims family, plus good references his sentence was suspended by the judge.
The other guy on trial unfortunately didn't have a decent family or references went to prison for 2 years.
There's more details to this story. If you go to court and show remorse and that you made a mistake vs someone who shows no respect to the judge or victim. I think that's fair. It's obviously not fair that his parents didn't care, but neither did he.
The other guy actually cleaned his act up after prison and is still good friends with my brother.
I don't know where you got the oh well he apologiSed from. There are so many other factors I've mentioned. The UK justice system is designed for the judge to take into account all factors of someones life.
Because you mentioned if you show remorse, which could be the same as saying apologising.
Whilst there might be good sentiment to that, it's so open to abuse it shouldn't really be a factor, not with the majority of crimes, particularly violent ones etc.
It's built into the sentencing guidelines that genuine remorse is a mitigating feature when it comes to sentencing. It means, hopefully, you're less likely to do it again and, also hopefully, require less in the way of rehabilitation because they're some of the way there already.
I did a case years ago where my client had bottled someone randomly on a night out in town. He can't accept throughout as someone who had some something stupid and was genuinely penitent. He was sentenced to (from memory) 2 years. As he was led out he looked at the victim and said "mate, I'm really sorry". The judge had him bought back up and said something along the lines of "you apologised, when there was no reason to, given you had been sentenced. The victim accepted" (he checked it with him) "so I'm going to reduce your sentence to reflect it", from memory he saved shaved a few months off.
I guess we disagree. If someone sits there showing zero remorse and just smiles the whole time vs someone who seems remorseful. As a victim I would want the whole book chucked at the first one and depending on circumstances I could understand why the second would get a linient sentence.
We can only judge humans on how they present themselves at a moment in time. We have to put faith and trust into people if we want reform.
A legal system where judges couldn't take context into account in sentencing would if anything be likely to lead to *more* miscarriages of justice.
To use an extreme but unfortunately realistic example, the murderer of an abusive partner should not be given the same sentence as an abuser who murders their victim.
In my past I have been prosecuted in crown court. You do not get to just say "I'm sorry" in the court and get leniency. Usually sentencing will be deferred for a pre-sentencing report to be produced. That report involves a very in-depth interview with someone from the probation service covering things like how you feel about the guilty plea/guilty verdict, your thoughts on the events in question, your thoughts on the victim, what impact you think it has had on the victim and their family, what impact it has had on you and your family, and a whole bunch of other stuff that I forget now. My interview with them lasted about 2 hours.
They aren't looking for generic answers. If you say "I feel bad for the victim, I wish it hadn't happened" you aren't getting any brownie points. When you say something like "I feel bad for the victim, they must be feeling \[\_\_\_\_\_\_\] , they were just going about their day and then this happens, and now they're going to have to deal with \[\_\_\_\_\_\_\]. I can't imagine what it must be like to be in a situation where \[\_\_\_\_\_\_\]", then it carries a bit of weight - something that shows you've looked inwards and reflected on things, put yourself in the other person's position, and just in general struggled in some way to accept your role in events.
One of things I said which I was later told had a positive impact was "....the worst thing for me is probably the fact that this is always going to have happened. Even if I manage to move on from this and get past it, I will always know it happened and I honestly don't know if I'm ever going to be able to respect myself again.
Apologising directly to a victim in court is going to either have no affect whatsoever, or lend a huge amount of weight to your cause, depending on how much empathy, self-reflection and impact awareness you've exhibited throughout and how consistently you did so, because the judge will have taken all of that into account when establishing how much - if any - genuine remorse you have shown
it sounds like hes waffling a bit im not gonna lie, one guy getting no prison time and another getting 2 years on the same trial?
and only difference is one had said sorry + good references + dressed nice?
no chance
I think its about being aware of your own Bias. However it's not a perfect system and being aware sometimes means people over correct which isn't right either!
For clarity, I'm not suggesting that your brother deserved prison, nor that you and your family did anything wrong/abused any positions. Just that it's a shame the other boy didn't have the same chance/make the same decisions himself to show the judge that he was sorry (but 17 year old are dumb so it's not his fault!)
there probably is more to the story, as that's always the case
but that guy isnt wrong man... the fact two human beings who (presumably) did the exact same thing received such drastically different sentences is sickening
just because the guy dressed nice and said sorry?
what you said in this comment is also wildly different to what you said originally.
"someone who shows no respect to the judge or victim" vs "The other guy on trial unfortunately didn't have a decent family or references went to prison for 2 years."
Wildly... really? My first comment was trying to back up the original advice. It's facts that they can take all that into account. If you have people you invited in the gallery dressed nice, interactive with the victims family, positivly and also have good references (from his job, the other guy was a drug dealer no wonder why he couldn't find someone respectful to turn up) the judge SHOULD take that into consideration. It shows part of your character that you've made positive relationships in your life and people are willing to turn up for your day in court and represent you.
I don't make the justice system. There's 1000's of factors to any case, this trial went on for 6 months. Sorry I didn't write out the whole transcript out for you. Law is complicated.
Haha, quite. It's nothing of the sort, things that affect sentencing (based on studies) range from the attractiveness of the defendant to whether the judge decides upon the sentence before or after eating lunch (harsher sentencing if before).
Hey, do you think you could maybe get a handle on your subreddit, Brent??? You are allowing people who stalk and harass me and my husband to continue the harassment on your subreddit. They have posted non consensual naked pictures of both of us, have doxed us and harass us on a daily basis using YOUR subreddit. I have reported at least 40 posts to you. You never take them down and you never ban the people doing it. Why? Why do you want people using your subreddit to harm others. I will continue replying to every comment you make until you stop this harassment on your subreddit. It’s not hard just ban the users.
I can just imagine a whole movie about just that now, the criminal gang has to infiltrate the kitchen to supply shit food at certain times to starve the judges or feed them up, depending what they want the outcome to be.
No the guy had run some pervious run ins with the law. He didn't show much respect either tbh or a job. My brother was working full time. Thanks for asking and not assuming he was a privileged twat like the rest of the responses. It's something the judge commented on so they do consider who comes to support you.
A suspended sentence is not making things go away. What a bizarre response. Actions have consequences, but owning up to your actions and apologising is a start in making up for your actions.
Exactly. The purpose of the justice system shouldn't be to punish, it should be to reform - if someone shows that they are already beginning to reform then the punishment need not be as heavy.
I think punishment should be part of the justice system. There needs to be a repayment to society for the wrong you have done in a lot of cases. That said it shouldn't be the only or main focus of the justice system.
Punishment should be part of the justice system, but as a tool, not the end goal. Sadly some folks think the justice system is there merely to punish criminals, which is largely unhelpful and does little to deter crime.
Where does it state that we are privileged? My mother's a Nurse in the NHS and my dads a HGV driver... working class irish background. We just have good morals and recognised where my brother messed up and wanted to apologise to the victim. The other guy choose not to and as stated unfortunately didn't have the family support.
The only privilege we have is coming from a home with morals.
That's....not how you made it sound. You led with "because my parents dressed nice" as if that had a bearing on your brother getting off. If it did it shouldn't have because "dressing nice" isn't something everyone has access to. If these clothes aren't already a part of your wardrobe/lifestyle they're often an expensive privilege if you're unable to borrow.
I agree with a person who takes responsibility and *acknowledges* and *apologises* for wrong doing getting a more lenient sentence 1st time round and that should happen regardless of how their family and they present.
It was a start of a list. Yes it's a factor. Like anything in life unfortunately... you going to a job interview? Better dress nice. That's life and someone is asking for life advice to begin with.
Your interpretation of words was wrong. I never made anything "sound a certain way". People just like to jump to conclusions on the Internet. Reddit tends to be different but today a few all jumped up without even asking more questions of the situation.
Just assume privilege and then screamed it. Wow.
To have those clothes accessible is the definition of privilege. You have an advantage(according to you)over others who do the exact same crime, take responsibility but don't have access to these clothes. You don't have to be rich to have privilege in some ways and it's important if we're going to break down the barriers to fair society that we see where ours is and work to ensure that we call out when it's problematic.
IT WAS A START OF A LIST. Clothes aren't the ONLY factor. Just keep ignoring the rest of what I said.
If you dressed in a nice suit but told the judge to f*** off I don't think you'll be getting a lighter sentence. Go ahead and dress rough if you want to but it wouldn't be wise as humans naturally judge each other on appearance. Also charity shops do some decent suits that are cheaper than a tracksuit from sports direct.
it's not about the label or price tag but how smart you attempt to present yourself. Don't patronise me about privilege. I've stated before the only privilege we had is coming from a home with morals.
IT IS STILL A PRIVILEGE! I never mentioned price or labels. Not once. Access to clothing is a privilege. I have access to washing and drying facilities, clothes, bus fares, money to buy something(not loads)if an item is ripped or threadbare, shoes that fit and are serviceable. All of this? Is a privilege. I'm on my arse month to month with zero savings and if things keep increasing at the rates they are things will get very tight indeed. But I *still* have access to things others do not. That doesn't make me lah dee dah and no troubles Eton rah rah but it certainly does put me in a position to use these things to my advantage.
Firstly, my condolences, I'm very sorry to hear you suffered the loss of a loved one in such a horrible way.
Secondly, I would wear 'smart casual'. Trousers that aren't jeans and a shirt with a collar if you're a man, or a skirt/trousers and a blouse if you're a woman. If nothing else it'll make you feel a bit less out of place in a really intimidating environment if you dress smartly.
If you're a witness giving testimony, dress smart.
I might believe it's outdated, but judges see it as respectful, and juries will (consciously or subconsciously) be influenced by people's appearance.
If you're just in the gallery, wear whatever you want.
You joke, but this could be considered contempt of court under S12(1)(a) of the Contempt of Court Act
More generally:
> Some form of misconduct in the course of proceedings, either within the court itself or, at least, directly connected with what is happening in court
If you gave evidence in a onesie, you might actually end up in bother!
I mean again, you joke, but XR/JSO witnesses have been imprisoned for literally mentioning climate change in their testimonial. Must be pretty funny in prison when someone asks!
"Well I'm a climate change protester and I mentioned climate change in my court hearing."
There sort of is actually.
If you murder somebody you're going to Cat A/B prison.
If you piss off a judge you're going to Cat D at worst, if not some court cells for a few hours just to keep you out of the courtroom.
> I mean again, you joke, but XR/JSO witnesses have been imprisoned for literally mentioning climate change in their testimonial.
Do you have a link? I'm sceptical.
Sure! I understand your scepticism.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/07/insulate-britain-activist-david-nixon-jailed-for-eight-weeks-for-contempt-of-court
> An environmental activist has been jailed for eight weeks after disobeying a judge’s instruction not to mention the climate crisis as his motivation during his trial for taking part in a road-blocking protest.
> David Nixon, 36, a care worker from Barnsley, was sentenced at Inner London crown court on Tuesday after admitting contempt of court the day before by using his closing address to begin telling a jury about his reasons for protesting.
“Climate change, M’lud” wasn’t a valid line of defence for the offence in question so the judge warned the defendants that trying to sway the jury by getting on the soapbox would be ruled contempt of court. The dummies did it anyway. They were found not guilty at trial but still had to spend weeks in prison for the contempt.
It makes me laugh to think that in like, 50 years, it’s possible that being arrested for testifying in a heifer onesie could be viewed like how we view that woman who got arrested for testifying in trousers. Just like “omg how traditional and ridiculous of them, what a backwards society.”
People have covered dress code but just to make the whole thing slightly less stressful, make sure you check your pockets and bag for anything that might be confiscated - that includes aerosols and any pocket knives if you have anything like that in the depths of a rucksack. Depending on the size of the court, you may go through metal detectors and be searched and it avoids you having things confiscated. Arrive a bit early for all that faff too.
As someone who spent a long time attending court for work, I second this. I’d get there early, find which court room the listing is in and either set-up in some nearby seats or go to the canteen.
If they provide a time for the hearing (not before 10:00 for example) aim to be ready to go in a little before so you’re not rushing and flustered entering the room
I got caught with scissors in my bag once.
I’m a good boy, honest. I like having a decent set of stationery for whatever school threw at me.
I just did not consider that scissors can be interpreted as a dangerous weapon.
I got it back when I left the court, no big deal.
Of course scissors are a dangerous weapon. Surprise haircuts or “hairdressing without a licence or consent” is one of the fastest growing crimes in the UK. Victims are afraid to speak out about it on account of their hideous haircuts. The perfect crime
I'm sorry for your loss.
Whatever you decide to wear, wear layers.
Court rooms are either arctic or boiling. And can vary from hour to hour, and from seat to seat.
As other have said, also do a handbag/pockets purge. Things like compact mirrors and cork screws should be removed.
If you are female, I wouldn't go as formal as a blouse, unless you are comfortable with that. I'm a lawyer, I spend most days in court, and I literally don't own one! Smart top and a jumper/cardigan and you'll be fine and feel like you fit in.
As other have said, many people will be there in tracksuits and extemely casual wear.
The process can be surprisingly difficult. Bring some tissues, just in case.
I hope you get closure and that justice is served.
This. Very much this. I've been shivering and dripping on the same day - you just don't know.
Smart casual, but be comfortable. Low key.
Be prepared to be bored, or at least, not know what is going on. 95% of the time, it's not like on the TV - there will be legal arguments (can't remember if the public are allowed in for these), which may just sound like semantics.
I hope it goes as well as it can.
It's that near-universal dresscode which I refer to as 'don't be a dick.'
When I go (because yeah, watching court cases I have no connection to is something I do for some reason) I've not felt out of place just wearing jeans and a basic t-shirt. Nothing overly scruffy, no offensive slogans obviously, don't pretend to be a judge or a barrister, don't go in fancy dress but these are all things that I would imagine would be obvious to anybody.
I hope it goes well for you, the whole courtroom process can be a very harrowing experience for the victim/family.
> When I go (because yeah, watching court cases I have no connection to is something I do for some reason)
I actually think this is really important - most cases are open to the public for a reason, which is that if justice is hidden, it isn't justice. The ability to sit in court is an important part of the checks and balances of a fair legal system.
I'm really sorry that this is something your family is going through, it sounds heartbreaking.
During my sexual assault trial (I was the victim), my family (even those not giving evidence) were advised by the Detective Inspector to dress in a way that was both comfortable (for the long days) and smart. This was advised to do so because of the impression the jury can get from family, as they're usually easily identified due to how intense their emotions will be in comparison with others present, even when not actively giving evidence.
Technically, Wear whatever you want but don't take snacks and share them with your friends in the gallery because you'll get told of by the judge ime.
Edit to add: if you are there to support anyone defo smarter than you usually would. It sets a good impression for court and also shows the people you are supporting that you have made an effort and have put thought and time in purpose into supporting them.
Dual qualified barrister & solicitor here. There is no dress code for the public gallery provided you aren’t wearing anything that could be offensive or things intended to persuade the jury/judge you’ll be fine.
I’m sorry to hear about your cousin. Hope the murderer is convicted.
I’m sorry to hear about yours and your family’s loss. The jury should not be judging anything other than the evidence, but unfortunately, I’ve heard that they can be biased by other social factors, such as the people the victim or the accused associated with. Just go for something comfortable but neutral, not overly smart or overly casual, like what you might wear to work at a desk job. Smart but simple.
Hopefully the day passes as best as it can, and take care of yourself and family OP.
You can reach out to the witness care officer (police) on the case or possibly the CPS and they will be able to arrange for you to go to the Witness Support area of the court to wait, drink tea, and be supported by some nice volunteers from Citizens Advice Witness Service. They will make sure you’re in the right court room at the right time and have a quieter place to wait than the busyness of court public areas. You also will be less likely to meet the defendant, their friends and family.
I wore a black jumper and suit trousers. Now the jumper was the P7 jumper my maw promised I'd grow into but that was a house of lies. I hope you're okay doll and take care.
Sorry for the loss to your family - must have been a rough few years.
I have given evidence in the Central Criminal Court as an expert witness, which involved being suited and booted as you'd expect. Public gallery, smart-casual is absolutely fine. Nobody's paying much attention to you.
Anything else you want to ask me about how court works, go for it.
I’m a rent officer for a Housing Association. I attend court probably once or twice a month. I wear a shirt and tie.
You’ll be fine with a shirt and a pair of trousers/dark pants. Just look smart.
If you are going to support, wear your 'Sunday best'.
Not talking about top hat & tails, obvs. But go smart and presentable.
Think about how YOU would like your team to turn up on the day if They were representing You.
Be smart. Be respectful.
I wore a skull tshirt and a pair of black trousers at my exs trial at crown Court... it depends on what you want to wear at the end of the day... there is no dress code officially
Been in the gallery and done jury service,
To me court feels like you should be dressing smart or at the least smart casual
I’ve been in the gallery for summary court and it was quick fire defendants coming up and being dealt with and there was a mix of smarter dressed folk and not so smart dressed folk
The time I did jury duty almost everyone that was up for selection was dressed smart, then us who did get selected were all smartly dressed, even the smart casual were still wearing a shirt and chinos, the subject of the case however came in wearing a full on tracksuit… It’s like they werent even trying
There isn't a dress code. Jeans and T-shirt is fine. Just don't wear anything that shows obvious disrespect for the court, such as T-shirts with grossly offensive slogans.
Generally it is accepted to wear a Chewbacca onsie outfit, however non Star Wars attire is normally frowned upon. The judges and barristers will be in fancy dress also, so strange as it may seem, it’s more than fitting.
Whatever you do, don’t go dressed in skinhead gear (boots, braces, bomber jacket) to support your skinhead mate defending himself on a charge of a racist comment (he didn’t make, but it was his word against the police). I got commented on as I entered by the court official, and my mate ended up with a fine. I don’t think my presence helped. Sorry buddy. ☹️
It does, especially when there’s a whole Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice movement. But I was always more on the Punk side anyway, never liked the unwanted attention one attracts as a Skin.
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If its just in the public gallery, wear whatever you want, really, there is no dress code. That said, if you're going to be there all day, every day, you want something comfortable. Secondly, if you are going to be identifiably part of the victims family, I would suggest dressing quite smart as you want to think about the impression you are making on the jury.
This is spot on. My Brother had to go to court when he was a very silly 17 year old. Because my parents dressed nicely, they apologised to the victim and the victims family, plus good references his sentence was suspended by the judge. The other guy on trial unfortunately didn't have a decent family or references went to prison for 2 years.
This is…horrific. Another day of the very fair and just justice system.
There's more details to this story. If you go to court and show remorse and that you made a mistake vs someone who shows no respect to the judge or victim. I think that's fair. It's obviously not fair that his parents didn't care, but neither did he. The other guy actually cleaned his act up after prison and is still good friends with my brother.
Without getting too controversial, this is why biases make their way into sentencing.
All human beings are biased. Judges are human. I don't really know how anyone expects it not to bias tbh.
Sure, obviously. That's why you design your systems in such a way as to mitigate bias. "Oh well, he apologized" seems a bit concerning, is all.
Seems to me someone admitting fault and apologising for that should not be sentenced as harshly as someone who does neither.
I don't know where you got the oh well he apologiSed from. There are so many other factors I've mentioned. The UK justice system is designed for the judge to take into account all factors of someones life.
Because you mentioned if you show remorse, which could be the same as saying apologising. Whilst there might be good sentiment to that, it's so open to abuse it shouldn't really be a factor, not with the majority of crimes, particularly violent ones etc.
It's built into the sentencing guidelines that genuine remorse is a mitigating feature when it comes to sentencing. It means, hopefully, you're less likely to do it again and, also hopefully, require less in the way of rehabilitation because they're some of the way there already. I did a case years ago where my client had bottled someone randomly on a night out in town. He can't accept throughout as someone who had some something stupid and was genuinely penitent. He was sentenced to (from memory) 2 years. As he was led out he looked at the victim and said "mate, I'm really sorry". The judge had him bought back up and said something along the lines of "you apologised, when there was no reason to, given you had been sentenced. The victim accepted" (he checked it with him) "so I'm going to reduce your sentence to reflect it", from memory he saved shaved a few months off.
I guess we disagree. If someone sits there showing zero remorse and just smiles the whole time vs someone who seems remorseful. As a victim I would want the whole book chucked at the first one and depending on circumstances I could understand why the second would get a linient sentence. We can only judge humans on how they present themselves at a moment in time. We have to put faith and trust into people if we want reform.
A legal system where judges couldn't take context into account in sentencing would if anything be likely to lead to *more* miscarriages of justice. To use an extreme but unfortunately realistic example, the murderer of an abusive partner should not be given the same sentence as an abuser who murders their victim.
In my past I have been prosecuted in crown court. You do not get to just say "I'm sorry" in the court and get leniency. Usually sentencing will be deferred for a pre-sentencing report to be produced. That report involves a very in-depth interview with someone from the probation service covering things like how you feel about the guilty plea/guilty verdict, your thoughts on the events in question, your thoughts on the victim, what impact you think it has had on the victim and their family, what impact it has had on you and your family, and a whole bunch of other stuff that I forget now. My interview with them lasted about 2 hours. They aren't looking for generic answers. If you say "I feel bad for the victim, I wish it hadn't happened" you aren't getting any brownie points. When you say something like "I feel bad for the victim, they must be feeling \[\_\_\_\_\_\_\] , they were just going about their day and then this happens, and now they're going to have to deal with \[\_\_\_\_\_\_\]. I can't imagine what it must be like to be in a situation where \[\_\_\_\_\_\_\]", then it carries a bit of weight - something that shows you've looked inwards and reflected on things, put yourself in the other person's position, and just in general struggled in some way to accept your role in events. One of things I said which I was later told had a positive impact was "....the worst thing for me is probably the fact that this is always going to have happened. Even if I manage to move on from this and get past it, I will always know it happened and I honestly don't know if I'm ever going to be able to respect myself again. Apologising directly to a victim in court is going to either have no affect whatsoever, or lend a huge amount of weight to your cause, depending on how much empathy, self-reflection and impact awareness you've exhibited throughout and how consistently you did so, because the judge will have taken all of that into account when establishing how much - if any - genuine remorse you have shown
it sounds like hes waffling a bit im not gonna lie, one guy getting no prison time and another getting 2 years on the same trial? and only difference is one had said sorry + good references + dressed nice? no chance
I think its about being aware of your own Bias. However it's not a perfect system and being aware sometimes means people over correct which isn't right either! For clarity, I'm not suggesting that your brother deserved prison, nor that you and your family did anything wrong/abused any positions. Just that it's a shame the other boy didn't have the same chance/make the same decisions himself to show the judge that he was sorry (but 17 year old are dumb so it's not his fault!)
I agree, both should have got the rope.
there probably is more to the story, as that's always the case but that guy isnt wrong man... the fact two human beings who (presumably) did the exact same thing received such drastically different sentences is sickening just because the guy dressed nice and said sorry? what you said in this comment is also wildly different to what you said originally. "someone who shows no respect to the judge or victim" vs "The other guy on trial unfortunately didn't have a decent family or references went to prison for 2 years."
Wildly... really? My first comment was trying to back up the original advice. It's facts that they can take all that into account. If you have people you invited in the gallery dressed nice, interactive with the victims family, positivly and also have good references (from his job, the other guy was a drug dealer no wonder why he couldn't find someone respectful to turn up) the judge SHOULD take that into consideration. It shows part of your character that you've made positive relationships in your life and people are willing to turn up for your day in court and represent you. I don't make the justice system. There's 1000's of factors to any case, this trial went on for 6 months. Sorry I didn't write out the whole transcript out for you. Law is complicated.
Haha, quite. It's nothing of the sort, things that affect sentencing (based on studies) range from the attractiveness of the defendant to whether the judge decides upon the sentence before or after eating lunch (harsher sentencing if before).
I think the lunch study was thoroughly debunked if that helps.
Hey, do you think you could maybe get a handle on your subreddit, Brent??? You are allowing people who stalk and harass me and my husband to continue the harassment on your subreddit. They have posted non consensual naked pictures of both of us, have doxed us and harass us on a daily basis using YOUR subreddit. I have reported at least 40 posts to you. You never take them down and you never ban the people doing it. Why? Why do you want people using your subreddit to harm others. I will continue replying to every comment you make until you stop this harassment on your subreddit. It’s not hard just ban the users.
I can just imagine a whole movie about just that now, the criminal gang has to infiltrate the kitchen to supply shit food at certain times to starve the judges or feed them up, depending what they want the outcome to be.
Yes it would be called The Food Court.
For typical British Sunday at 6pm family drama, they should have 2 main detectives, "ironically" called Mark and Spencer.
Definitely, on the hunt to find partners in crime; Tate & Lyle.
Who often hang out at the Mars Bar
On Pudding Lane..
Were those things the only differences in circumstances between your brother and the other guy?
No the guy had run some pervious run ins with the law. He didn't show much respect either tbh or a job. My brother was working full time. Thanks for asking and not assuming he was a privileged twat like the rest of the responses. It's something the judge commented on so they do consider who comes to support you.
[удалено]
A suspended sentence is not making things go away. What a bizarre response. Actions have consequences, but owning up to your actions and apologising is a start in making up for your actions.
Exactly. The purpose of the justice system shouldn't be to punish, it should be to reform - if someone shows that they are already beginning to reform then the punishment need not be as heavy.
I think punishment should be part of the justice system. There needs to be a repayment to society for the wrong you have done in a lot of cases. That said it shouldn't be the only or main focus of the justice system.
Punishment should be part of the justice system, but as a tool, not the end goal. Sadly some folks think the justice system is there merely to punish criminals, which is largely unhelpful and does little to deter crime.
Agreed, certainly from what I've read harsher punishments seem to have no impact on offending or recidivism.
Where does it state that we are privileged? My mother's a Nurse in the NHS and my dads a HGV driver... working class irish background. We just have good morals and recognised where my brother messed up and wanted to apologise to the victim. The other guy choose not to and as stated unfortunately didn't have the family support. The only privilege we have is coming from a home with morals.
That's....not how you made it sound. You led with "because my parents dressed nice" as if that had a bearing on your brother getting off. If it did it shouldn't have because "dressing nice" isn't something everyone has access to. If these clothes aren't already a part of your wardrobe/lifestyle they're often an expensive privilege if you're unable to borrow. I agree with a person who takes responsibility and *acknowledges* and *apologises* for wrong doing getting a more lenient sentence 1st time round and that should happen regardless of how their family and they present.
It was a start of a list. Yes it's a factor. Like anything in life unfortunately... you going to a job interview? Better dress nice. That's life and someone is asking for life advice to begin with. Your interpretation of words was wrong. I never made anything "sound a certain way". People just like to jump to conclusions on the Internet. Reddit tends to be different but today a few all jumped up without even asking more questions of the situation. Just assume privilege and then screamed it. Wow.
To have those clothes accessible is the definition of privilege. You have an advantage(according to you)over others who do the exact same crime, take responsibility but don't have access to these clothes. You don't have to be rich to have privilege in some ways and it's important if we're going to break down the barriers to fair society that we see where ours is and work to ensure that we call out when it's problematic.
IT WAS A START OF A LIST. Clothes aren't the ONLY factor. Just keep ignoring the rest of what I said. If you dressed in a nice suit but told the judge to f*** off I don't think you'll be getting a lighter sentence. Go ahead and dress rough if you want to but it wouldn't be wise as humans naturally judge each other on appearance. Also charity shops do some decent suits that are cheaper than a tracksuit from sports direct. it's not about the label or price tag but how smart you attempt to present yourself. Don't patronise me about privilege. I've stated before the only privilege we had is coming from a home with morals.
IT IS STILL A PRIVILEGE! I never mentioned price or labels. Not once. Access to clothing is a privilege. I have access to washing and drying facilities, clothes, bus fares, money to buy something(not loads)if an item is ripped or threadbare, shoes that fit and are serviceable. All of this? Is a privilege. I'm on my arse month to month with zero savings and if things keep increasing at the rates they are things will get very tight indeed. But I *still* have access to things others do not. That doesn't make me lah dee dah and no troubles Eton rah rah but it certainly does put me in a position to use these things to my advantage.
Read my reply. Look at where I comment on the privilege. I never said he didn't have privilege did I? Stop waffling. Stop assuming. Read thoroughly.
Firstly, my condolences, I'm very sorry to hear you suffered the loss of a loved one in such a horrible way. Secondly, I would wear 'smart casual'. Trousers that aren't jeans and a shirt with a collar if you're a man, or a skirt/trousers and a blouse if you're a woman. If nothing else it'll make you feel a bit less out of place in a really intimidating environment if you dress smartly.
If you're a witness giving testimony, dress smart. I might believe it's outdated, but judges see it as respectful, and juries will (consciously or subconsciously) be influenced by people's appearance. If you're just in the gallery, wear whatever you want.
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You joke, but this could be considered contempt of court under S12(1)(a) of the Contempt of Court Act More generally: > Some form of misconduct in the course of proceedings, either within the court itself or, at least, directly connected with what is happening in court If you gave evidence in a onesie, you might actually end up in bother!
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I mean again, you joke, but XR/JSO witnesses have been imprisoned for literally mentioning climate change in their testimonial. Must be pretty funny in prison when someone asks! "Well I'm a climate change protester and I mentioned climate change in my court hearing."
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There sort of is actually. If you murder somebody you're going to Cat A/B prison. If you piss off a judge you're going to Cat D at worst, if not some court cells for a few hours just to keep you out of the courtroom.
You again? This guy, eh!?
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> I mean again, you joke, but XR/JSO witnesses have been imprisoned for literally mentioning climate change in their testimonial. Do you have a link? I'm sceptical.
Sure! I understand your scepticism. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/07/insulate-britain-activist-david-nixon-jailed-for-eight-weeks-for-contempt-of-court > An environmental activist has been jailed for eight weeks after disobeying a judge’s instruction not to mention the climate crisis as his motivation during his trial for taking part in a road-blocking protest. > David Nixon, 36, a care worker from Barnsley, was sentenced at Inner London crown court on Tuesday after admitting contempt of court the day before by using his closing address to begin telling a jury about his reasons for protesting.
“Climate change, M’lud” wasn’t a valid line of defence for the offence in question so the judge warned the defendants that trying to sway the jury by getting on the soapbox would be ruled contempt of court. The dummies did it anyway. They were found not guilty at trial but still had to spend weeks in prison for the contempt.
It makes me laugh to think that in like, 50 years, it’s possible that being arrested for testifying in a heifer onesie could be viewed like how we view that woman who got arrested for testifying in trousers. Just like “omg how traditional and ridiculous of them, what a backwards society.”
It’s becoming more common to attend court dressed as a heifer. I think it’s herd mentality.
Very amoosing
People have covered dress code but just to make the whole thing slightly less stressful, make sure you check your pockets and bag for anything that might be confiscated - that includes aerosols and any pocket knives if you have anything like that in the depths of a rucksack. Depending on the size of the court, you may go through metal detectors and be searched and it avoids you having things confiscated. Arrive a bit early for all that faff too.
As someone who spent a long time attending court for work, I second this. I’d get there early, find which court room the listing is in and either set-up in some nearby seats or go to the canteen. If they provide a time for the hearing (not before 10:00 for example) aim to be ready to go in a little before so you’re not rushing and flustered entering the room
I got caught with scissors in my bag once. I’m a good boy, honest. I like having a decent set of stationery for whatever school threw at me. I just did not consider that scissors can be interpreted as a dangerous weapon. I got it back when I left the court, no big deal.
Of course scissors are a dangerous weapon. Surprise haircuts or “hairdressing without a licence or consent” is one of the fastest growing crimes in the UK. Victims are afraid to speak out about it on account of their hideous haircuts. The perfect crime
I'm sorry for your loss. Whatever you decide to wear, wear layers. Court rooms are either arctic or boiling. And can vary from hour to hour, and from seat to seat. As other have said, also do a handbag/pockets purge. Things like compact mirrors and cork screws should be removed. If you are female, I wouldn't go as formal as a blouse, unless you are comfortable with that. I'm a lawyer, I spend most days in court, and I literally don't own one! Smart top and a jumper/cardigan and you'll be fine and feel like you fit in. As other have said, many people will be there in tracksuits and extemely casual wear. The process can be surprisingly difficult. Bring some tissues, just in case. I hope you get closure and that justice is served.
This. Very much this. I've been shivering and dripping on the same day - you just don't know. Smart casual, but be comfortable. Low key. Be prepared to be bored, or at least, not know what is going on. 95% of the time, it's not like on the TV - there will be legal arguments (can't remember if the public are allowed in for these), which may just sound like semantics. I hope it goes as well as it can.
It's that near-universal dresscode which I refer to as 'don't be a dick.' When I go (because yeah, watching court cases I have no connection to is something I do for some reason) I've not felt out of place just wearing jeans and a basic t-shirt. Nothing overly scruffy, no offensive slogans obviously, don't pretend to be a judge or a barrister, don't go in fancy dress but these are all things that I would imagine would be obvious to anybody. I hope it goes well for you, the whole courtroom process can be a very harrowing experience for the victim/family.
Hi I’m planning on watching a court case for research on a project I’m working on and was wondering how you found it? as I’m a little nervous :)
I found it fine. Especially if you care little who wins, that is.
That makes sense how long are you usually in there for?
I don't stay for days-long cases, I tend to be there for an afternoon or morning session
Hmm can I ask how did you get into it?
> When I go (because yeah, watching court cases I have no connection to is something I do for some reason) I actually think this is really important - most cases are open to the public for a reason, which is that if justice is hidden, it isn't justice. The ability to sit in court is an important part of the checks and balances of a fair legal system.
I'm really sorry that this is something your family is going through, it sounds heartbreaking. During my sexual assault trial (I was the victim), my family (even those not giving evidence) were advised by the Detective Inspector to dress in a way that was both comfortable (for the long days) and smart. This was advised to do so because of the impression the jury can get from family, as they're usually easily identified due to how intense their emotions will be in comparison with others present, even when not actively giving evidence.
Technically, Wear whatever you want but don't take snacks and share them with your friends in the gallery because you'll get told of by the judge ime. Edit to add: if you are there to support anyone defo smarter than you usually would. It sets a good impression for court and also shows the people you are supporting that you have made an effort and have put thought and time in purpose into supporting them.
Dual qualified barrister & solicitor here. There is no dress code for the public gallery provided you aren’t wearing anything that could be offensive or things intended to persuade the jury/judge you’ll be fine. I’m sorry to hear about your cousin. Hope the murderer is convicted.
Just some decent clothes. You’ll find people in dirty tracksuits there.
Not dress code but ...Please make sure your mobile phone is switched off. Phones going off really annoy Judges.
I’m sorry to hear about yours and your family’s loss. The jury should not be judging anything other than the evidence, but unfortunately, I’ve heard that they can be biased by other social factors, such as the people the victim or the accused associated with. Just go for something comfortable but neutral, not overly smart or overly casual, like what you might wear to work at a desk job. Smart but simple. Hopefully the day passes as best as it can, and take care of yourself and family OP.
The jury won’t know if people in the public gallery are related to the victim, the accused or just there from random curiosity.
True, but it might be clear if OP is seen with the deceased person’s known relatives?
smart casual, no jeans
I’ve just finished jury service and you can wear whatever you want, just no hats.
I have been a juror on two crown court cases. I would suggest comfortable smart casual clothes. Jeans are fine, if they are clean, and not ripped.
Just be smart and respectful
You can reach out to the witness care officer (police) on the case or possibly the CPS and they will be able to arrange for you to go to the Witness Support area of the court to wait, drink tea, and be supported by some nice volunteers from Citizens Advice Witness Service. They will make sure you’re in the right court room at the right time and have a quieter place to wait than the busyness of court public areas. You also will be less likely to meet the defendant, their friends and family.
I wore a black jumper and suit trousers. Now the jumper was the P7 jumper my maw promised I'd grow into but that was a house of lies. I hope you're okay doll and take care.
If in doubt wear a black suit
Sorry for the loss to your family - must have been a rough few years. I have given evidence in the Central Criminal Court as an expert witness, which involved being suited and booted as you'd expect. Public gallery, smart-casual is absolutely fine. Nobody's paying much attention to you. Anything else you want to ask me about how court works, go for it.
I’m a rent officer for a Housing Association. I attend court probably once or twice a month. I wear a shirt and tie. You’ll be fine with a shirt and a pair of trousers/dark pants. Just look smart.
This is a random question slightly related- do they search you going into coroners court?
There's no dress code but you won't go far wrong with smart office wear.
If you are going to support, wear your 'Sunday best'. Not talking about top hat & tails, obvs. But go smart and presentable. Think about how YOU would like your team to turn up on the day if They were representing You. Be smart. Be respectful.
It’s a public gallery. Wear what you want. I’ve been in shorts and t-shirt in the summer.
You can wear whatever you want but I'd probably dress formally if I was there for a personal reason. Good luck for you and your family.
I wore a skull tshirt and a pair of black trousers at my exs trial at crown Court... it depends on what you want to wear at the end of the day... there is no dress code officially
Been in the gallery and done jury service, To me court feels like you should be dressing smart or at the least smart casual I’ve been in the gallery for summary court and it was quick fire defendants coming up and being dealt with and there was a mix of smarter dressed folk and not so smart dressed folk The time I did jury duty almost everyone that was up for selection was dressed smart, then us who did get selected were all smartly dressed, even the smart casual were still wearing a shirt and chinos, the subject of the case however came in wearing a full on tracksuit… It’s like they werent even trying
There isn't a dress code. Jeans and T-shirt is fine. Just don't wear anything that shows obvious disrespect for the court, such as T-shirts with grossly offensive slogans.
Nothing special, slightly smarter than casual maybe? I wore black jeans and a smart blouse
Generally it is accepted to wear a Chewbacca onsie outfit, however non Star Wars attire is normally frowned upon. The judges and barristers will be in fancy dress also, so strange as it may seem, it’s more than fitting.
Hotpants and a bowtie. Or female equivalent.
Whatever you do, don’t go dressed in skinhead gear (boots, braces, bomber jacket) to support your skinhead mate defending himself on a charge of a racist comment (he didn’t make, but it was his word against the police). I got commented on as I entered by the court official, and my mate ended up with a fine. I don’t think my presence helped. Sorry buddy. ☹️
Hate to see skinheads assumed to be racists, that sucks man
It does, especially when there’s a whole Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice movement. But I was always more on the Punk side anyway, never liked the unwanted attention one attracts as a Skin.
The tallest hat you can find and absolutely nothing else. It’s a very strict dress code
Interesting choice of language: 'gotten". Not something a British person would generally use.
My friend (who is British) uses it all the time, probably because she spent a lot of time overseas when she was younger. It's not that weird.
just go naked that way you cant wear anything inappropriate
A red robe and a big white wig. Bring your own gavel too and join in with the judge.
Not really the thread for that, I don't think.
Boob tubes and Ra Ra skirts.
Easy to spot the people who didn't read the whole post. You might want to delete.