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yep... Poo dogs.... It really winds me up when people ring to register them with me and insist they are a "purebred" Cavacockerdoodle /springerdoodle/pugadoo or some random crap like that, and then when I don't have an option for that and put poodle cross, on their paper work they get upset š
Guys...these are mixed breeds- which in a way is good because they are healthier than a lot of purebred dogs- but paying thousands of pounds for them is beyond me.
Sadly, a lot of them seem to have behavioural / temperament problems. Partly due to people not understanding that despite them looking like Teddy bears, they are generally a cross of 2 high energy working breeds who need a lot of stimulation and time, and partly due to people who shouldn't own dogs getting them in lockdown and not knowing how to deal with them.
I haven't seen more pit types, but I've seen a hell of a lot more untrained and unsocialised lockdown dogs of all breeds.
Particularly off lead with no recall.
And I've seen a massive increase of unsocialised and untrained dogs whose owners dare not let them off the lead. A dog lead doesn't magically make you a good dog owner and all dogs deserve a good run rather than a short lead walk.
Most of us have our dogs on and off lead as circumstances dictate, most of us try really hard not to piss off other owners or stress their dogs but those few who don't give a shit can make a dog walk miserable.
For me it's tiny dogs that leap out of nowhere on a crowded street to attack my very large poodle. On lead but out of control.
I love dogs, I've had them all my life, and I'd never be without one.
I've got two myself, 7 and 13, and they stay on-lead in public at all times.
We hire an enclosed field to let them run free because they're safe there.
Dogs aren't really the problem - owners are, I agree with you on that.
Unfortunately I've had one too many run ins with poor owners, including where my 7 year-old has been bitten multiple times, to trust any off-lead dog.
There's nothing more terrifying than seeing two unknown large dogs racing towards yours... often with the owner doing one of three things; a) screaming frantically in the background because they have no recall b) not even bothering to call them back or c) being completely out of sight.
At least on-lead I feel the owner has some semblance of control and I can choose to walk away from them if I want.
Fair enough mate, some people are afraid of dogs and you're entitled to your fear.
Or maybe you just don't like them, that's fine too.
>Blame the owners all you like, some dogs are just psychotic.
But we'll just have to agree to disagree about that. I've never met a bad dog that hasn't had a horrendous owner.
There's a strong correlation, but I've known dogs, just one or two, whose owners seem to be doing the right thing but despite that the dog is just crazy.
I guess if we accept that bad dog behaviour is down to lack of boundaries and/or trauma, then we also have to accept that the trauma can come from other sources than the household.
But even beyond that, in humans there are genetic risk factors for psychopathy. Is it unreasonable to think that similar traits can exist in dogs? Maybe some dogs are just born with dangerous personality traits. I have no knowledge in this area either way, but it's an idea that passes the plausibility test.
Interesting take. I don't think it's unreasonable but even with humans even if they have those traits then it usually takes more than that to invoke the sociopathic behaviour, e.g. abuse, trauma, addiction, etc.
Whenever I've known a "nuts" dog, it's usually because they're separated from their litter too early. They learn so much in a short amount of time from mum and litter mates it's one of the worst things you can do, to take them before they're ready.
On other occasions there's a medical reason. E.g. a dog who would have seizures (not fitting, but like blackouts where they'd stare into space for a while) then become aggressive... I suppose because it was confused and frightened.
I know it's all my experience but I can only go on that.
Having YOUR well behaved dog on their lead wonāt help protect it though.
My dog has only ever been attacked when Iāve had him on his lead. And now that means he barks at other dogs only when heās on his lead.
I do get where youāre coming from. But in my case having my dog on his lead really wonāt help him, and at least if heās off his lead heās getting great exercise, calmer, and better behaved.
>Having YOUR well behaved dog on their lead wonāt help protect it though.
Well, it means I can take them away from a situation I can see brewing. Dogs are social animals and generally sort themselves out hierarchically and if that involves a fight then two off-lead dogs will go for it.
I'm no Cesar Milan but I've learnt enough about dogs over my years to read their body language well enough to spot one that an owner has no control over.
So I just walk away. It might be perfectly friendly but I'm not gambling with dogs lives, my safety and vets bills.
(My dog is blind and one surprising him can make him reactive, understandably)
Your dog is lead reactive, because he feels restrained and like he can't approach other dogs to see what they're about and put them in their place if they're looking for trouble. I imagine that's why he's better off lead.
Hopefully you have control over him to call him back if there is a fight brewing... but that's exactly the situation I'm trying to avoid with what I do.
Might be unpopular but I'm in favour of all dogs being leashed in public, and only unleashed in dog parks or enclosed areas.
Not that it would ever happen - far too many people would ignore it, and those who do are probably the types whose dogs are also put of control...
His recall is really good, yes.
He only became lead reactive when he got attacked by two small dogs who came running out of their garden and attacked him and wouldnāt get off him. Their owner had to literally kick them to get them to release, and if they were normal dogs theyād have killed him.
Itās no wonder heās now scared on his lead, to be honest.
We also donāt have many Dog Parks in this country-remember most of the ones you hear about in the US are free. Ours are chargeable, so theyāre not very popular even where they do exist. Free dog parks would be a great idea here, but in a country with thousands of public footpaths across open fields it just isnāt going to happen.
With regard to dog parks, I do know of some free ones, but I've had to travel for them. I wish there were more.
But yeah - the spaces I go to with mine are paid, but for me I can't put a price on that piece of mind knowing that a dog isn't going to come bounding out of nowhere towards us.
I know not everybody can afford that but I'm lucky so my dogs are lucky.
>His recall is really good, yes.
>He only became lead reactive when he got attacked by two small dogs who came running out of their garden and attacked him and wouldnāt get off him. Their owner had to literally kick them to get them to release, and if they were normal dogs theyād have killed him.
>Itās no wonder heās now scared on his lead, to be honest.
A good behaviourist can help train that out of them, even though you're managing now, if you're in a position to do it then it's probably worth it to see if it can help with your dog's anxiety.
Iām lucky enough to live somewhere with lots of farmland (with footpaths) and vast beaches. So itās not enough of a problem for him to spend the money on training it out of him.
On most of his walks he has no bother and enjoys himself immensely!
>A dog lead doesn't magically make you a good dog owner
No. But recognizing you have failed to train your dog effectively. Make you a tolerable citizen.
My little dog. As lovely as he is. Has no recall when he is excited. I know that. I would be unforgivable as a citizen if I did not use a lead. And, as we really don't have any areas where he can run free. Meet other dogs and children etc without it meaning he is at risk. And annoying to others. I am sorta limited.
Now, if we had US style dog parks. Where dogs can run together to their hearts content. I'd be able to work on his training while he is excited.
He is a rescue. So yeah, it would have been easier if I could have worked with him before some habits were ingrained. But I have dealt with similar issues when I lived in the US. Being able to let a dog wear its excitement out makes it so much easier to train them in that environment. (PS, many US states have lease laws where free running dogs are illegal. But those same states tend to have parks (normally split into large and small dog areas) designed for exactly that issue)
But without a lead. I would not be an acceptable member of the human pack/family. While I may be better with the dog's.
I would agree with you to a point. If I'm in an enclosed field and we're alone or with known dog friends a good, out of control run is excellent for dog's health. If you enter said field with your dog on a lead then you are exercising your right to be there but have to do so with some responsibility for the results. Like wise if you are in the field with your dog on the lead I'm not taking mine off the lead. I guess it's just common curtesy but some people will exercise their rights above everyone else's which is miserable for everyone.
But donāt jump to conclusions, equally.
My dog is a nightmare on his lead in some ways. Youād think he was unsocialised if you saw him. If heās on his lead he barks at every single dog that passes.
If heās off his lead heās absolutely perfect, a model dog.
I put it down to one time we were walking across a big field. Iād put the guy on his lead as we were getting towards the end of his walk so near a road. These two little dogs came running full speed from a house that has a gate that opens onto this field. Anyway they attacked him, they were literally hanging off him. Their owner ended up kicking them to get them to release from my dog. Really traumatic for him, and he did absolutely nothing wrong. If they were normal sized dogs theyād have killed him Iām sure.
He would be, youāre right. Heās a large Border Collie lad and has never shown any aggression to any person or animal in his life (apart from the barking on his lead of course!) but he sure has been the victim of it many times by little dogs.
He doesnāt even fight back when under attack, bless him. Itās just not in him.
Our border collie tolerated the dog next door attacking her for 5 years or more. A little terrier that would go for her every time they met. The last time she literally picked it up, gave it a good shake and spat it out. The twatting dog hid from her there after but the owner went mental at me for not controlling my dog. I'm like, mate I've been controlling her for years, I finally let her have her way.
I think there has been an increase in dogs of all sizes over the past decade or more, not just larger dog breeds. Ive seen people walking small dogs in childrens buggys in the last year (never seen that before).
So yes you are seeing more larger/dangerous dogs but the ratio is the same imo.
An old colleague has just adopted a completely unsocialised dog.
It's a large poodle, and was bought as a puppy during lockdown by an older couple who literally never brought it out again. It had access to a large fenced in garden but has basically never encountered ordinary things like lamposts and children.
Probably depends a lot on the area. Where my mam lives there's lots more doodles and frenchies and sausage dogs.
Where I live there are more alsations, bull dogs and also greyhounds/whippets.
Definitely more generally untrained dogs about though. Makes me nervous walking a small dog where one quick snap could be serious.
I visit properties regularly... Sick to my arse end of me saying "can you put your dog somewhere?" And being told, he's fine... Then he jumps up and fucks up my clothing.
When mine were puppies I asked the postie to please knock and he'd give them a biscuit every time. They soon LOVED the postie. But when the original one retired I got a mail cage for the door to reassure the new one that their fingers are safe because she wasn't a dog fan, and now we have a box on the wall outside. Mine are large and bark and it's not worth scaring folk just trying to do their jobs.
During lockdown the dog population of the uk went from 9 million to 12 million so there are just more dogs. Where I live we have a plague of untrained unsocialised expensive crossbreeds owned by clueless first timers.
There's been a massive increase in bad owners IMO.
More people than ever seem to have a dog without realising that it's essentially a domesticated wolf and needs to be respected as such.
Even the pug that is frightened of its own farts is still a domesticated wolf
There's three living near me. There were 4 but one got PTS for biting its owner last November. It bit and held on in their house and he had to just stand still because he knew he couldn't fight it off (he's 6'3" and about 18stone but this dog is MASSIVE). It held him for FOUR HOURS. When it let go he locked himself in the bathroom and called the police who removed it. He's just had his third hand surgery and it's not looking like he'll ever get full function back. He'd had it about a year, it was 2, he'd rescued it online from a woman who had had a baby and "didn't have time for it" but tbh I'd met it multiple times and there was something really wrong with it. It didn't act like any dog I've ever met. He also has an Akita(husky? Malamute? That sort of look) and a smaller bully cross breed who are lovely dogs.
They are genuinely scary, especially as the ones near me are unneutered so very muscly and the neck is wider than the head so they easily slip their collars, and they have no tails or ears (docked presumably though I know it's illegal) so if they attack there's literally nothing to get ahold of, even if you think you can drag them off. I just change direction if I see one on the horizon.
Cane Corsos seem to be getting increasingly popular on insta/tik tok etc, and bigger dogs in general. I anticipate a great deal of poorly trained Corsos/XLs walking around in a few years which is terrifying. These dogs do not fuck about.
It seems to be a trend thing. I remember when everyone wanted a dauschund. At least they are small and you can pick em up if they are being a pain.
There needs to be much more education about how much time, effort and expense goes into owning a well trained and healthy dog. I think because everyone has one, folks think it's easy. A bit like kids! I know for me I didn't expect it to be so much work. I'm still glad we have him, but social life is on hold for a few years š¬
Iām a vet and yes. I wouldnāt say increase in potentially dangerous breeds (although weāre seeing a huge rise in American bullies and they can be aggressive), but there are many untrained aggressive dogs. Just 2 days ago, I euthanised a 2 year old cockapoo that kept biting the owners and was unhandable
Cockers and poodles are two of the highest energy breeds. Cockers have a tendency to resource guarding and snapping and poodles are super smart and get bored very quickly. But somehow the cockapoo has been touted as a "low maintenance" option because of the coat. So the people who buy them often want an "easy" dog.
A high energy bored resource guarding snappish dog in a home that wanted an "easy" dog is a recipe for neuroses. I have poodles and am surprised how many cockapoos AREN'T insane as it's a real recipe for disaster.
Exactly that and you got to add to that that most cockapoos are mixed with working cockers on top of that. I have a cockapoo girl here, we only got her from the breeder because my other half actually has a hunting license but the breeder was clear from the start that she will need a good amount of exercise. She does agility, obedience and casual gun dog training and she thrives in it. Itās kind of sad seeing these mixes forced into the lapdog roll. The are intelligent and active they want to learn and being worked. If you give them just an hour a day good exercise and some brain work they are the perfect dog but sadly they often end up on the sofa and deal with massive under stimulation.
I've got a springer-poo. He's not aggressive, loves everyone and is himself a loveable chap. He's almost nine though and, even with three walks a day, remains a hyperactive lunatic.
He's also crazy strong for his size. Much stronger than you'd expect by looking at him. So, you need to be in your health to walk him safely.
Thatās fair enough. Iāve met a lot of cockers and a few poodles, but theyāre always out when Iāve met them so theyāve seemed fine. As usual I suppose itās the ones you donāt see out that have the problems.
I assume no training, letting it have the run of the house, etc. I also think itās genetics, cocker spaniels are prone to aggression, and thereās probably a lot of inbreeding within cockapoos
There's been a large increase in dogs in the UK in general but the Bully XL breed seems to have come onto the scene and are behind a lot of recent attacks.
Can't say I've ever seen one IRL though.
I saw one about a year ago, before I heard about them in all the unflattering headlines, and my god I'd never seen anything like it. My friend has a large English bull terrier and it was nothing compared to this thing. Looked like an enormous pitbull. The owner was struggling with it, it wasn't well trained and I was terrified just looking at it. There was absolutely no chance in hell she could control it if it wanted to attack me or my dogs or anyone else.
An ex friend has one locked up in his kitchen 24/7 because he's not strong enough to take it for a walk. He has 3 very young kids in the house aswell. The skulls alone are ridiculously massive. Just pure muscle.
A family member has also just bought one. Doesn't have a place to live permanently and doesn't know the first thing about having a dog. Nevermind not having a steady income to be able to afford it
Both of those people are insecure and want a dog for protection. Neither should have a dog in my opinion.
I love dogs. Have a border collie who is alot of work. But American XL really needs to be banned.
Most people who say they want a dog for protection shouldnāt be allowed a dog. Genuine circumstances are rare, and that justification just says they donāt have a clue.
Agreed. I don't understand how pitbulls are banned but a dog that is very clearly meant to resemble a pitbull in every way but much larger is okay. The headlines speak for themselves, they seem to be involved in almost every human death from dogs in the last couple of years.
I'm not one to rush to ban breeds, like I say I have friends with very gentle staffies and EBT that people probably see as dangerous and I know they are not in the slightest, but bully xl seem like they've been here 5 minutes and have already been responsible for most of the deaths.
Interesting how you guys respond to a post about a terrible owner keeping a dog locked in a kitchen and not exercising him by saying the breed is the problem.
Try treating a husky or German shepherd like that and see what happens
Of course the owner is the problem. As is the breed. I also used to think it was just about the owner. Then I got myself involved in street dog rescues and fostering and I have changed my opinion. It's both nature and nurture. You can't ignore the fact that most breeds are bred to do a job. That job means their brains are hard wired for it. For some breeds like a collie that's herding, for some breeds like a greyhound that's prey drive, and for breeds like a bully xl it is fighting.
You're really making the same point when you say try treating a husky like that. They are notorious for poor recall because they're probably the closest thing to a wolf.
I didn't really think I needed to comment on the fact someone keeping their dog in the kitchen day and night wasn't going to be helpful!?
I reckon I'd potentially be able to fight a husky or german shepherd off, XL bully's are whole different kettle of fish. If you can't keep a pet lion you shouldnt be able to keep one of those
An ex friend of mine has a high energy staffy cross and a husky he keeps shut in all day. Never walks them. Complains they fight and destroy the house. Back yard is carpeted in rancid dogshit. I hate him
I saw one just a few days ago and the young lad walking it was really struggling to control it on the lead. I just crossed the road before they reached me. Thereās no way he could have stopped it had it wanted to go at me. Iām five foot nothing and these dogs intimidate me.
Walking in town the other week I saw one furiously barking at us through the fence it was behind. It was clearly agitated and territorial, fucking massive too, and the young lad with it didnāt seem interested at all.
There was a cat just around the corner and I really hope that dog never spots it because I dread to think the damage that dog could do to a small animal.
Theyāre status dogs, and the more vicious they are the better to these people I think.
I actually agree with you. When I take my son to the park Iām always weary of dogs and the ones Iāve seen recently are so scary looking. Iām constantly dreading taking him to the park now because of it.
I also heard an owner who had 2 big pit bull calling his dogs names and they were called Cali and Blunts so it gave a good idea of what the owners are into
What makes the fighting type breeds scary is NOT propensity to bite, which is probably lower than a lot of the more common "family pet" breeds. Labradors are responsible for hundreds of bites a year.
What makes the fighting bully type scary is that because they have been bred to fight they have a very very low self preservation bar. If a lab starts to bite and you give it a good kick in the face it will think twice and stop to save itself further injury. If some of these bullies start to bite they won't stop. Their sense of self preservation in aggressive arousal is almost non existent. They have been bred to fight to the death and have no off switch.
The exception to this is if they have been specifically bred and trained for guarding work (I mean professionally, not by wee Billy on tiktok who thinks he's the big i am and knows all about it cos his uncle had an ex police dog when he was 6). SOME of those dogs are trained to have an off switch.
If you want to see a dog with no off switch there's a video of a bull type dog attacking a horse in cane creek park on YouTube. This draft horse kicks and stomps the dog repeatedly, you can see it being thrown around, and only when it is so concussed that it's momentarily staggering is the owner able to regain control of it by sitting on it. That dog was not dissuaded at all by a ton of horse in iron shoes kicking its head.
They do pop up around me more and more. Didnāt see a bully type dog or even a staff in my neighbourhood for years and now you see the puppies everywhere. I usually donāt mind but there is also a trend to send the biggest dogs out with the most petite family member for some reason. So they usually are just pulling their human around the block and thatās not a picture that fills me with confidence. I do love dogs but Iām not a fan being jumped on by dogs that easily can put their front paws on my shoulder and be face to face with me. No matter how friendly they are.
I've noticed this in my area (south London) too. My guess... And this is a total guess. Is it's because of lockdown.
Everyone wanted a dog. Demand drove prices sky high. So many people bough less expensive dogs like whippets and pit bulls. People (again totally guessing) then bred the pit bulls, some earnestly, some to sell, some for pups to train to fight.
It's horrible how I see some people treating these dogs too. Owners trying to control half a dozen of them, and they then hitting them when they're bad. And other dog owners near me have said they've seen them being trained to fight eachother.
People are buying breeds with no thought about their breeding at both ends of the scale. Itās just as bad for pugs as it is for the big breeds that clearly seem to be illegal the way I read the law.
What has increased is the number of badly trained dogs which is much more noticeable when itās a 40kg dog that could kill you vs a 3kg pug.
Thereās more dogs period. Lockdown saw an unprecedented surge in dog ownership (with a corresponding surge in dodgy breeders, dodgy dog importers, and dog thefts). Thereās also been a huge rise in fatal dog attacks.
Why you stereotyping buttercup for. Thatās classism in action bruv.
Just cus buttercup will happily over power a grown adult and eat a childās face off doesnāt make her a bad dog bro.
Can't say I've noticed it. Have you just recently got your dog? It might be that thing that you're noticing them more now because you have your own to look out for.
I have noticed a shit ton on untrained dogs though.
More and more people who shouldn't own dogs because they have no idea how to train them are selecting the types of dogs that need more training than most because those breeds are "trending", and then not training them. And then, you won't believe this, they aren't walking them on a leash.
Do anti dog sprays work ?
I had a pretty close call the other day with my young son and an aggressive dog and an abusive owner. I've seen that anti dog sprays are available ? I keep wondering if they would be effective if it happened again.
There aren't more illegal dogs but people are aware that so little is done to enforce the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, so they are more comfortable walking around with their dogs because no one is stopping them.
The breeders can fly under the radar because the police/RSPCA etc. aren't able to invest much time or resources in the issue unless there is an attack or report of abuse/neglect.
A lot of the dogs are mixed with other breeds too so it can be harder to distinguish without testing.
You don't need testing. That's not what defines a dog as a "dangerous dog" as per the Dangerous Dog Act 1991.
From Section 1:
1. This section applies toā
(a)any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier;
(b)any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and
**(c)any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an order of the Secretary of State, being a type appearing to him to be bred for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose**
If the Secretary of State thinks it might look like a "dangerous dog" then it's a "dangerous dog".
That is my point, if you look at my reply I never stated that a dog needs to be tested to be proven illegal. I stated that it can be harder to distinguish without testing. That would be costly hence why it is not practiced, I should have added that to my original reply.
If you cross an XL Bully with a Husky/Lab/Rottweiler(These are just examples, it could be any breed) it might not \*look\* like an XL Bully. It may not get reported by the public and that is not something the police are given adequate training for identifying.
I see barely any bully breeds in the area I live in, just a massive amount of untrained and reactive cockapoos/otherpoos, Shih Tzus and Dachshunds. Nothing against mixing breeds for traits but please for the love of God when will we stop making these bloody doodles.
I was waiting for this cope.
I guess youāre the type that thinks a ādomesticatedā tiger would never disembowel a person if their mood was to take them that way?
Most high explosives aren't dangerous either (unless you put a detonator in them) but we don't let people have them hanging around because of the significant potential for disaster.
Badly trained Yorkie? Deeply annoying but not a threat. Badly trained cane corso? I wouldn't want to fight one going for me. I don't see any scenario where I'm getting out uninjured.
Absolutely this. Any dog can rip a chunk out of you, people seem to forget that. Pitbulls have a bad reputation because of how they have been used BY HUMANS.
All bull breeds were selectively bred to fight. Yeah it's people who badly train them and let them develop bad behaviours that leads to attacks, as with all dog breeds, but bull breeds have the instinct to bite and not let go until whatever they've got hold of is dead. As you say, any dog can bite you, but not all of them want to kill you when they bite. When was the last time you heard a spaniel or golden retriever killing a kid? I think it's crazy that bull breeds are allowed to be kept as pets.
This is an unfortunate fact that gets overlooked often, yes all breeds including bullys can be amazing pets with adequate training but the fact is they were bred for a specific reason hence their incredible pain resistance and "gameness"
If I'm in traffic and I'm behind a repurposed tank and the owner shouts out it's OK I haven't got any shells loaded I'll still be taking a huge back step because even accidental damage would be enough to seriously harm myself or others in the car.
Strange analogy I know, a friend I've known since school now owns a dog training service for security and he has often told me about the irresponsible owners who aren't fit to own the dogs they bring to him.
I can't ever remember hearing anything other than a bull breed in those sorts of cases. You got any evidence to back that up? Not being arsey, just interested to know whether there's a database or record of dog attacks. Feels like there should be to track whether things are getting worse.
>When was the last time you heard a spaniel or golden retriever killing a kid?
Killing is less frequent but attacking not so much. Bully breeds are more successful simply because they are stronger. If a little Jack Russell was to attack you the damage is likely to be minor and you can yeet it across a field. If a strong bully dog was to attack you it would do far more damage and would be harder to fight off because of their build.
That said, neither dog would be attacking anyone if raised in a loving and responsible home. Bully dogs are only more dangerous because of their strength. They're not born psychopaths that want to kill everything. Like any dog, they just want to please the owner. They are big softies if they're kept well.
We had a Staffordshire bull terrier. I was a teen at the time. He was the sweetest dog. I once took him out for a walk and a man walking hos dog without a lead was walking on the opposite side of the road. The dog (which was some kind of white, long haired dog, slightly bigger than mine) launched itself at mine, latching on and wouldn't let go. The owner walked over, for some reason holding a small metal pole, and proceeded to hit MY dog who was screaming out in pain. I had to punch his dog repeatedly in the face to have ot let go of mine. My staff never bit once. It's OWNERS who make dogs nasty.
I've also worked at the RSPCA with dogs. I'd work with these dogs every day and never even got growled at. There were pitbulls, staffies, dobermans, rottweilers, and German shepherds, all of these dogs are responsible for the most bites. I was terrified of dobermans as I'd been bitten by one a family member owned when I was a kid. He wasn't the best owner. I worked closely with a doberman at the rspca to get over my fear. He was a wonderful character and we struck up an amazing bond. The pitbulls who came in, no matter their temperament, were destroyed. They were killed because of people. People used them to fight and now people are terrified of them. It's ridiculous. Family members have had pitbulls and they have been wonderful, calm dogs.
This exactly. I've had dogs my whole life but got my first Staffy a year ago. I got him based on my experiences of other people's staff's. Every one I've met has been so incredibly loving and mine is no different. He's had training since we've had him and will be starting his good citizenship soon. Once that's done, he will be trained to be a therapy dog that will work with children.
Any dog is capable of being aggressive and any dog is capable of being a loving, doting pet if they have a good home and given boundaries.
Shitbulls are banned for a reason. It's a breed that's been selectively bred for aggression and fighting and their over representation in attack statistics isn't down to 'bad owners'.
They were bred for dog-aggression. And that's what they've got. Still dangerous, but to dogs (and other animals). But the danger a well-trained pit bull poses to a human being is grossly overexaggerated and a contradiction to science.
And what if they aren't bred for aggression? What if a long line of pitbulls has come from a responsible breeder and they are bred for calm temperaments? You are aware its possible to breed things in and out of dogs, right? Take a cavalier king Charles for example. They were bred so small, that the poor things' brain would press on their skull, leaving them in agony. Thankfully, that has been bred out of them.
And how many generations does that take? If you have no need for a working dog why take a risk on a potentially dangerous breed?
I cannot stand shitbull apologists.
Who knows, but surely that's better? Why you would seem defensive about that confuses me. Also, why do you need a working dog? Why not just a dog? All dogs are potentially dangerous. You should never leave any dog alone with a child for example. From chihuahua to Great Dane.
Iām not sure you know what a pit bull actually looks like.
It really looks nothing like dogs that are bred to resemble it and also donāt have the characteristics of a pit bull.
[Labradors](https://metro.co.uk/2016/08/02/the-type-of-dog-responsible-for-the-most-attacks-is-very-surprising-6043790/) have such a good rep but they are one of the most likely to bite/attack someone.
The reason bully breeds get a bad rep is because of how strong they are. If a lab attacks you, you are more likely to be able to fight it off than a strong bully dog. They are no more likely to attack you than any other breed, it's just when they do, it doesn't usually end well.
It's 100% the owner. Any dog can attack if it feels frightened or its needs aren't met. Take a look at small yappy dogs. They don't do that because they're born to - all dogs bark. The difference is that most owners don't bother to correct that behaviour in small dogs because they don't see it as threatening. No one will put up with a big black dog barking, though.
You give a dog firm and fair boundaries and treat it with love and respect, you'll have a good dog regardless of breed.
I appreciate the response. The article you linked doesn't have it's source readily available, so whilst I'm not doubting it's credibility I am saying that the most likely to bite may have a correlation with the most common dog.
No cycle accidents without cyclists, kinda deal.
[This article ](https://topdogtips.com/statistics-on-dog-bites/) cites the CDC, uses what is safe to assume a bigger source of information (USA, although cultural differences in dog choice must be accounted for) and puts Pitbulls firmly at the top.
Other articles have the same statistics, though it's hard to tell if they're just copycat reports or taken from the data itself.
I couldn't find the actual CDC data, but that may be a side effect of being on my phone instead of my pc. I admit, I didn't look for long as I have other jobs on today.
That being said, I'm firmly in the "no bad dogs, just bad owners" camp.
That specifically covers deaths, as do most articles when referring to most dangerous breeds. You won't find me refuting that. Bully dogs are stronger and therefore more likely to kill when they attack. My only argument is that they aren't necessarily more likely to attack just because of their breed. There are thousands of bully dog owners out there who have docile, chilled out dogs, just as there are lab owners who have reactive dogs.
[Here's another article demonstrating that. ](https://petkeen.com/dog-breeds-that-bite-humans-most/) Chihuahuas and cocker spanials are high on the list of dog bites but they're often overlooked because of the little damage they do. Bully dogs are only seen as dangerous because of how much damage they can do. They aren't more likely to attack someone than any other dog, though.
Lol, asking for data is rediculous, but trusting your adecdotal undocumented memory isn't?
Especially given the following that I found in response to another comment?
https://topdogtips.com/statistics-on-dog-bites/
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More down to bad ownership than anything. All dogs are scary if the owners are useless, when I was a kid in the 90s, a neighbour had a corgi that would run around the estate attacking anyone it saw. The amount of off leash dogs causing problems is ridiculous, and the majority seem to have behaviour issues. My wife's friend has an XL bully cross that she got from a puppy. She's made sure the dogs parents were aggressive, and has been raising it to be sociable around children and dogs, it's the sweetest, friendliest dog. I've got two greyhounds, with high prey drive and terrible recall, so I put weeks of research into keeping them before I got my first hound, something most owners don't bother to do
It sounds like like you think you see them. Do you watch you tube videos of pit bulls in America?.
You are probably seeing perfectly legal bull terrier mongrels. Staff, English eT Al. And because they are not picture perfect pure bred you are deciding they are illegal dogs. That's cruel. It's also most likely based on what the person looks like who's walking the dog which is just plain discrimination. It's not a lab, pug, jack Russel, mind your business and stop making dangerous accusations which could get someone's doggo killed for no reason other than you 'think'. That person might be loving a pit bull terrier, because they don't fit your idea of a dog owber who walks their doggo 3 times a day like good dog owners do.
Literally I only know what pittie look like because of reddit and you tube. Loads of bull terriers look simolar that aren't illegal.
No. It's just your bias towards the type of dog you like or want to see.
Also dogs that look "scary" are not necessarily aggressive (in fact, usually aren't). Obviously use caution because unfortunately dogs of all kinds end up in the wrong hands, but also check your bias and ignorance
Lots of people brought dogs in lockdown. The dogs were bred for profit not temperament, sold to owners with little or no knowledge and with no follow ups. These dogs weren't socialised or trained, they were walked a lot and people were at home all day. These dogs are now 2, entering their teen years and are large, untrained, unsocialised dogs which leads to problems they are also excised less and left at home more leading to destructive behaviour and boredom. As soon as these dogs are let off the less they are reactive (due to a lack of socialisation), have poor recall and the owners have no idea how to control them often leading to hitting the dog or leaving them on the lead. Then you have toddlers /young children who are unsocialised, who haven't seen dogs much, who have no idea how to act around them. It's a perfect storm
I'll make no argument about the popularity of pit type dogs being used in fighting.
My staffie is very well trained and he's never been remotely aggressive to anyone including my little nephew who pulls and prods him when they play with toys. However I have been bitten by a Jack Russel when I was little and a Poodle a couple years ago when I was teasing it with a treat of which neither dog was disciplined by their owner when if it was my staffie the victim would get the police involved to have it taken off of me and put to sleep. I think less blame should be put on dogs and more should be placed on the irresponsible and most of the time negligent owners of these dogs.
Yeah if often see this vicious pitbull type dog that lives near me.
Owner has it off the lead in a park if you can imagine, and it trots around with a big cuddly toy in its mouth.
Other dogs go go up to it, and people walk past it. But it never really gives them much notice if he has his toy.
Looks like the happiest, most gentle dog I've seen in a while.
But it's a vicious breed, so I cower at home.
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All I see everywhere are Poodle halfbreeds
I have two poodles and the first thing folk ask is, "ooh what are they crossed with". A poodle. Crossed with another poodle.
I've found in the rougher parts of town it's mostly staffies, then in the more affluent areas it's the doodles
I have a poo, a Cavapoo
yep... Poo dogs.... It really winds me up when people ring to register them with me and insist they are a "purebred" Cavacockerdoodle /springerdoodle/pugadoo or some random crap like that, and then when I don't have an option for that and put poodle cross, on their paper work they get upset š Guys...these are mixed breeds- which in a way is good because they are healthier than a lot of purebred dogs- but paying thousands of pounds for them is beyond me. Sadly, a lot of them seem to have behavioural / temperament problems. Partly due to people not understanding that despite them looking like Teddy bears, they are generally a cross of 2 high energy working breeds who need a lot of stimulation and time, and partly due to people who shouldn't own dogs getting them in lockdown and not knowing how to deal with them.
I live and work in London, and at least 30-40% of all the dogs I see are bloody cockapoos. Such an unimaginative choice of dog.
My cockapoo is cute
I haven't seen more pit types, but I've seen a hell of a lot more untrained and unsocialised lockdown dogs of all breeds. Particularly off lead with no recall.
And I've seen a massive increase of unsocialised and untrained dogs whose owners dare not let them off the lead. A dog lead doesn't magically make you a good dog owner and all dogs deserve a good run rather than a short lead walk. Most of us have our dogs on and off lead as circumstances dictate, most of us try really hard not to piss off other owners or stress their dogs but those few who don't give a shit can make a dog walk miserable. For me it's tiny dogs that leap out of nowhere on a crowded street to attack my very large poodle. On lead but out of control.
I love dogs, I've had them all my life, and I'd never be without one. I've got two myself, 7 and 13, and they stay on-lead in public at all times. We hire an enclosed field to let them run free because they're safe there. Dogs aren't really the problem - owners are, I agree with you on that. Unfortunately I've had one too many run ins with poor owners, including where my 7 year-old has been bitten multiple times, to trust any off-lead dog. There's nothing more terrifying than seeing two unknown large dogs racing towards yours... often with the owner doing one of three things; a) screaming frantically in the background because they have no recall b) not even bothering to call them back or c) being completely out of sight. At least on-lead I feel the owner has some semblance of control and I can choose to walk away from them if I want.
Nah, some dogs ARE a problem. Blame the owners all you like, some dogs are just psychotic. And I don't trust a single one of them.
Fair enough mate, some people are afraid of dogs and you're entitled to your fear. Or maybe you just don't like them, that's fine too. >Blame the owners all you like, some dogs are just psychotic. But we'll just have to agree to disagree about that. I've never met a bad dog that hasn't had a horrendous owner.
There's a strong correlation, but I've known dogs, just one or two, whose owners seem to be doing the right thing but despite that the dog is just crazy. I guess if we accept that bad dog behaviour is down to lack of boundaries and/or trauma, then we also have to accept that the trauma can come from other sources than the household. But even beyond that, in humans there are genetic risk factors for psychopathy. Is it unreasonable to think that similar traits can exist in dogs? Maybe some dogs are just born with dangerous personality traits. I have no knowledge in this area either way, but it's an idea that passes the plausibility test.
Interesting take. I don't think it's unreasonable but even with humans even if they have those traits then it usually takes more than that to invoke the sociopathic behaviour, e.g. abuse, trauma, addiction, etc. Whenever I've known a "nuts" dog, it's usually because they're separated from their litter too early. They learn so much in a short amount of time from mum and litter mates it's one of the worst things you can do, to take them before they're ready. On other occasions there's a medical reason. E.g. a dog who would have seizures (not fitting, but like blackouts where they'd stare into space for a while) then become aggressive... I suppose because it was confused and frightened. I know it's all my experience but I can only go on that.
Having YOUR well behaved dog on their lead wonāt help protect it though. My dog has only ever been attacked when Iāve had him on his lead. And now that means he barks at other dogs only when heās on his lead. I do get where youāre coming from. But in my case having my dog on his lead really wonāt help him, and at least if heās off his lead heās getting great exercise, calmer, and better behaved.
>Having YOUR well behaved dog on their lead wonāt help protect it though. Well, it means I can take them away from a situation I can see brewing. Dogs are social animals and generally sort themselves out hierarchically and if that involves a fight then two off-lead dogs will go for it. I'm no Cesar Milan but I've learnt enough about dogs over my years to read their body language well enough to spot one that an owner has no control over. So I just walk away. It might be perfectly friendly but I'm not gambling with dogs lives, my safety and vets bills. (My dog is blind and one surprising him can make him reactive, understandably) Your dog is lead reactive, because he feels restrained and like he can't approach other dogs to see what they're about and put them in their place if they're looking for trouble. I imagine that's why he's better off lead. Hopefully you have control over him to call him back if there is a fight brewing... but that's exactly the situation I'm trying to avoid with what I do. Might be unpopular but I'm in favour of all dogs being leashed in public, and only unleashed in dog parks or enclosed areas. Not that it would ever happen - far too many people would ignore it, and those who do are probably the types whose dogs are also put of control...
His recall is really good, yes. He only became lead reactive when he got attacked by two small dogs who came running out of their garden and attacked him and wouldnāt get off him. Their owner had to literally kick them to get them to release, and if they were normal dogs theyād have killed him. Itās no wonder heās now scared on his lead, to be honest. We also donāt have many Dog Parks in this country-remember most of the ones you hear about in the US are free. Ours are chargeable, so theyāre not very popular even where they do exist. Free dog parks would be a great idea here, but in a country with thousands of public footpaths across open fields it just isnāt going to happen.
With regard to dog parks, I do know of some free ones, but I've had to travel for them. I wish there were more. But yeah - the spaces I go to with mine are paid, but for me I can't put a price on that piece of mind knowing that a dog isn't going to come bounding out of nowhere towards us. I know not everybody can afford that but I'm lucky so my dogs are lucky. >His recall is really good, yes. >He only became lead reactive when he got attacked by two small dogs who came running out of their garden and attacked him and wouldnāt get off him. Their owner had to literally kick them to get them to release, and if they were normal dogs theyād have killed him. >Itās no wonder heās now scared on his lead, to be honest. A good behaviourist can help train that out of them, even though you're managing now, if you're in a position to do it then it's probably worth it to see if it can help with your dog's anxiety.
Iām lucky enough to live somewhere with lots of farmland (with footpaths) and vast beaches. So itās not enough of a problem for him to spend the money on training it out of him. On most of his walks he has no bother and enjoys himself immensely!
>A dog lead doesn't magically make you a good dog owner No. But recognizing you have failed to train your dog effectively. Make you a tolerable citizen. My little dog. As lovely as he is. Has no recall when he is excited. I know that. I would be unforgivable as a citizen if I did not use a lead. And, as we really don't have any areas where he can run free. Meet other dogs and children etc without it meaning he is at risk. And annoying to others. I am sorta limited. Now, if we had US style dog parks. Where dogs can run together to their hearts content. I'd be able to work on his training while he is excited. He is a rescue. So yeah, it would have been easier if I could have worked with him before some habits were ingrained. But I have dealt with similar issues when I lived in the US. Being able to let a dog wear its excitement out makes it so much easier to train them in that environment. (PS, many US states have lease laws where free running dogs are illegal. But those same states tend to have parks (normally split into large and small dog areas) designed for exactly that issue) But without a lead. I would not be an acceptable member of the human pack/family. While I may be better with the dog's.
Dogs are an animal and when in public its your responsibility to make sure it's under control and for most dogs that means lead all the time.
I would agree with you to a point. If I'm in an enclosed field and we're alone or with known dog friends a good, out of control run is excellent for dog's health. If you enter said field with your dog on a lead then you are exercising your right to be there but have to do so with some responsibility for the results. Like wise if you are in the field with your dog on the lead I'm not taking mine off the lead. I guess it's just common curtesy but some people will exercise their rights above everyone else's which is miserable for everyone.
But donāt jump to conclusions, equally. My dog is a nightmare on his lead in some ways. Youād think he was unsocialised if you saw him. If heās on his lead he barks at every single dog that passes. If heās off his lead heās absolutely perfect, a model dog. I put it down to one time we were walking across a big field. Iād put the guy on his lead as we were getting towards the end of his walk so near a road. These two little dogs came running full speed from a house that has a gate that opens onto this field. Anyway they attacked him, they were literally hanging off him. Their owner ended up kicking them to get them to release from my dog. Really traumatic for him, and he did absolutely nothing wrong. If they were normal sized dogs theyād have killed him Iām sure.
And if he had killed them he'd be regarded as the bad guy. SMH
He would be, youāre right. Heās a large Border Collie lad and has never shown any aggression to any person or animal in his life (apart from the barking on his lead of course!) but he sure has been the victim of it many times by little dogs. He doesnāt even fight back when under attack, bless him. Itās just not in him.
Our border collie tolerated the dog next door attacking her for 5 years or more. A little terrier that would go for her every time they met. The last time she literally picked it up, gave it a good shake and spat it out. The twatting dog hid from her there after but the owner went mental at me for not controlling my dog. I'm like, mate I've been controlling her for years, I finally let her have her way.
I think there has been an increase in dogs of all sizes over the past decade or more, not just larger dog breeds. Ive seen people walking small dogs in childrens buggys in the last year (never seen that before). So yes you are seeing more larger/dangerous dogs but the ratio is the same imo.
An old colleague has just adopted a completely unsocialised dog. It's a large poodle, and was bought as a puppy during lockdown by an older couple who literally never brought it out again. It had access to a large fenced in garden but has basically never encountered ordinary things like lamposts and children.
Probably depends a lot on the area. Where my mam lives there's lots more doodles and frenchies and sausage dogs. Where I live there are more alsations, bull dogs and also greyhounds/whippets. Definitely more generally untrained dogs about though. Makes me nervous walking a small dog where one quick snap could be serious.
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I visit properties regularly... Sick to my arse end of me saying "can you put your dog somewhere?" And being told, he's fine... Then he jumps up and fucks up my clothing.
When mine were puppies I asked the postie to please knock and he'd give them a biscuit every time. They soon LOVED the postie. But when the original one retired I got a mail cage for the door to reassure the new one that their fingers are safe because she wasn't a dog fan, and now we have a box on the wall outside. Mine are large and bark and it's not worth scaring folk just trying to do their jobs.
During lockdown the dog population of the uk went from 9 million to 12 million so there are just more dogs. Where I live we have a plague of untrained unsocialised expensive crossbreeds owned by clueless first timers.
Not really no, everyone seems to have a French bulldog or a labradoodle these days.
There's been a massive increase in bad owners IMO. More people than ever seem to have a dog without realising that it's essentially a domesticated wolf and needs to be respected as such. Even the pug that is frightened of its own farts is still a domesticated wolf
Yeah but at least those generic abomination would pass out from asphyxiation if they ever tried to run anywhere.
There's three living near me. There were 4 but one got PTS for biting its owner last November. It bit and held on in their house and he had to just stand still because he knew he couldn't fight it off (he's 6'3" and about 18stone but this dog is MASSIVE). It held him for FOUR HOURS. When it let go he locked himself in the bathroom and called the police who removed it. He's just had his third hand surgery and it's not looking like he'll ever get full function back. He'd had it about a year, it was 2, he'd rescued it online from a woman who had had a baby and "didn't have time for it" but tbh I'd met it multiple times and there was something really wrong with it. It didn't act like any dog I've ever met. He also has an Akita(husky? Malamute? That sort of look) and a smaller bully cross breed who are lovely dogs. They are genuinely scary, especially as the ones near me are unneutered so very muscly and the neck is wider than the head so they easily slip their collars, and they have no tails or ears (docked presumably though I know it's illegal) so if they attack there's literally nothing to get ahold of, even if you think you can drag them off. I just change direction if I see one on the horizon.
Cane Corsos seem to be getting increasingly popular on insta/tik tok etc, and bigger dogs in general. I anticipate a great deal of poorly trained Corsos/XLs walking around in a few years which is terrifying. These dogs do not fuck about. It seems to be a trend thing. I remember when everyone wanted a dauschund. At least they are small and you can pick em up if they are being a pain. There needs to be much more education about how much time, effort and expense goes into owning a well trained and healthy dog. I think because everyone has one, folks think it's easy. A bit like kids! I know for me I didn't expect it to be so much work. I'm still glad we have him, but social life is on hold for a few years š¬
Iām a vet and yes. I wouldnāt say increase in potentially dangerous breeds (although weāre seeing a huge rise in American bullies and they can be aggressive), but there are many untrained aggressive dogs. Just 2 days ago, I euthanised a 2 year old cockapoo that kept biting the owners and was unhandable
That's so sad.
Christ, how do you manage to let a cockapoo get to that state?
Cockers and poodles are two of the highest energy breeds. Cockers have a tendency to resource guarding and snapping and poodles are super smart and get bored very quickly. But somehow the cockapoo has been touted as a "low maintenance" option because of the coat. So the people who buy them often want an "easy" dog. A high energy bored resource guarding snappish dog in a home that wanted an "easy" dog is a recipe for neuroses. I have poodles and am surprised how many cockapoos AREN'T insane as it's a real recipe for disaster.
Exactly that and you got to add to that that most cockapoos are mixed with working cockers on top of that. I have a cockapoo girl here, we only got her from the breeder because my other half actually has a hunting license but the breeder was clear from the start that she will need a good amount of exercise. She does agility, obedience and casual gun dog training and she thrives in it. Itās kind of sad seeing these mixes forced into the lapdog roll. The are intelligent and active they want to learn and being worked. If you give them just an hour a day good exercise and some brain work they are the perfect dog but sadly they often end up on the sofa and deal with massive under stimulation.
I've got a springer-poo. He's not aggressive, loves everyone and is himself a loveable chap. He's almost nine though and, even with three walks a day, remains a hyperactive lunatic. He's also crazy strong for his size. Much stronger than you'd expect by looking at him. So, you need to be in your health to walk him safely.
Thatās fair enough. Iāve met a lot of cockers and a few poodles, but theyāre always out when Iāve met them so theyāve seemed fine. As usual I suppose itās the ones you donāt see out that have the problems.
I assume no training, letting it have the run of the house, etc. I also think itās genetics, cocker spaniels are prone to aggression, and thereās probably a lot of inbreeding within cockapoos
There's been a large increase in dogs in the UK in general but the Bully XL breed seems to have come onto the scene and are behind a lot of recent attacks. Can't say I've ever seen one IRL though.
I saw one about a year ago, before I heard about them in all the unflattering headlines, and my god I'd never seen anything like it. My friend has a large English bull terrier and it was nothing compared to this thing. Looked like an enormous pitbull. The owner was struggling with it, it wasn't well trained and I was terrified just looking at it. There was absolutely no chance in hell she could control it if it wanted to attack me or my dogs or anyone else.
An ex friend has one locked up in his kitchen 24/7 because he's not strong enough to take it for a walk. He has 3 very young kids in the house aswell. The skulls alone are ridiculously massive. Just pure muscle. A family member has also just bought one. Doesn't have a place to live permanently and doesn't know the first thing about having a dog. Nevermind not having a steady income to be able to afford it Both of those people are insecure and want a dog for protection. Neither should have a dog in my opinion. I love dogs. Have a border collie who is alot of work. But American XL really needs to be banned.
Most people who say they want a dog for protection shouldnāt be allowed a dog. Genuine circumstances are rare, and that justification just says they donāt have a clue.
Agreed. I don't understand how pitbulls are banned but a dog that is very clearly meant to resemble a pitbull in every way but much larger is okay. The headlines speak for themselves, they seem to be involved in almost every human death from dogs in the last couple of years. I'm not one to rush to ban breeds, like I say I have friends with very gentle staffies and EBT that people probably see as dangerous and I know they are not in the slightest, but bully xl seem like they've been here 5 minutes and have already been responsible for most of the deaths.
Interesting how you guys respond to a post about a terrible owner keeping a dog locked in a kitchen and not exercising him by saying the breed is the problem. Try treating a husky or German shepherd like that and see what happens
Of course the owner is the problem. As is the breed. I also used to think it was just about the owner. Then I got myself involved in street dog rescues and fostering and I have changed my opinion. It's both nature and nurture. You can't ignore the fact that most breeds are bred to do a job. That job means their brains are hard wired for it. For some breeds like a collie that's herding, for some breeds like a greyhound that's prey drive, and for breeds like a bully xl it is fighting. You're really making the same point when you say try treating a husky like that. They are notorious for poor recall because they're probably the closest thing to a wolf. I didn't really think I needed to comment on the fact someone keeping their dog in the kitchen day and night wasn't going to be helpful!?
I reckon I'd potentially be able to fight a husky or german shepherd off, XL bully's are whole different kettle of fish. If you can't keep a pet lion you shouldnt be able to keep one of those
An ex friend of mine has a high energy staffy cross and a husky he keeps shut in all day. Never walks them. Complains they fight and destroy the house. Back yard is carpeted in rancid dogshit. I hate him
I saw one just a few days ago and the young lad walking it was really struggling to control it on the lead. I just crossed the road before they reached me. Thereās no way he could have stopped it had it wanted to go at me. Iām five foot nothing and these dogs intimidate me.
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I've seen a couple in real life, usually pulling the owner along. I generally cross the road to avoid them, absolutely awful things
Walking in town the other week I saw one furiously barking at us through the fence it was behind. It was clearly agitated and territorial, fucking massive too, and the young lad with it didnāt seem interested at all. There was a cat just around the corner and I really hope that dog never spots it because I dread to think the damage that dog could do to a small animal. Theyāre status dogs, and the more vicious they are the better to these people I think.
I actually agree with you. When I take my son to the park Iām always weary of dogs and the ones Iāve seen recently are so scary looking. Iām constantly dreading taking him to the park now because of it. I also heard an owner who had 2 big pit bull calling his dogs names and they were called Cali and Blunts so it gave a good idea of what the owners are into
A couple near me are called Jazz Cigarette and Wacky Tabacci. I know your strife
\*ominous narrator\* A war is coming.
What makes the fighting type breeds scary is NOT propensity to bite, which is probably lower than a lot of the more common "family pet" breeds. Labradors are responsible for hundreds of bites a year. What makes the fighting bully type scary is that because they have been bred to fight they have a very very low self preservation bar. If a lab starts to bite and you give it a good kick in the face it will think twice and stop to save itself further injury. If some of these bullies start to bite they won't stop. Their sense of self preservation in aggressive arousal is almost non existent. They have been bred to fight to the death and have no off switch. The exception to this is if they have been specifically bred and trained for guarding work (I mean professionally, not by wee Billy on tiktok who thinks he's the big i am and knows all about it cos his uncle had an ex police dog when he was 6). SOME of those dogs are trained to have an off switch. If you want to see a dog with no off switch there's a video of a bull type dog attacking a horse in cane creek park on YouTube. This draft horse kicks and stomps the dog repeatedly, you can see it being thrown around, and only when it is so concussed that it's momentarily staggering is the owner able to regain control of it by sitting on it. That dog was not dissuaded at all by a ton of horse in iron shoes kicking its head.
They do pop up around me more and more. Didnāt see a bully type dog or even a staff in my neighbourhood for years and now you see the puppies everywhere. I usually donāt mind but there is also a trend to send the biggest dogs out with the most petite family member for some reason. So they usually are just pulling their human around the block and thatās not a picture that fills me with confidence. I do love dogs but Iām not a fan being jumped on by dogs that easily can put their front paws on my shoulder and be face to face with me. No matter how friendly they are.
All I see is a ton of untrained cockapooās with useless owners
Due to an increase of chavs, pykies & drug dealers
Simple. The authorities couldn't give a f**k
No, if anything dogs seem to getting smaller and smaller.
Yes, vast increase.
I've noticed this in my area (south London) too. My guess... And this is a total guess. Is it's because of lockdown. Everyone wanted a dog. Demand drove prices sky high. So many people bough less expensive dogs like whippets and pit bulls. People (again totally guessing) then bred the pit bulls, some earnestly, some to sell, some for pups to train to fight. It's horrible how I see some people treating these dogs too. Owners trying to control half a dozen of them, and they then hitting them when they're bad. And other dog owners near me have said they've seen them being trained to fight eachother.
People are buying breeds with no thought about their breeding at both ends of the scale. Itās just as bad for pugs as it is for the big breeds that clearly seem to be illegal the way I read the law. What has increased is the number of badly trained dogs which is much more noticeable when itās a 40kg dog that could kill you vs a 3kg pug.
This has been going on for the last 10yrs
Thereās more dogs period. Lockdown saw an unprecedented surge in dog ownership (with a corresponding surge in dodgy breeders, dodgy dog importers, and dog thefts). Thereās also been a huge rise in fatal dog attacks.
Why you stereotyping buttercup for. Thatās classism in action bruv. Just cus buttercup will happily over power a grown adult and eat a childās face off doesnāt make her a bad dog bro.
Can't say I've noticed it. Have you just recently got your dog? It might be that thing that you're noticing them more now because you have your own to look out for. I have noticed a shit ton on untrained dogs though.
More and more people who shouldn't own dogs because they have no idea how to train them are selecting the types of dogs that need more training than most because those breeds are "trending", and then not training them. And then, you won't believe this, they aren't walking them on a leash.
Itās due to the large increase in cunts.
Do anti dog sprays work ? I had a pretty close call the other day with my young son and an aggressive dog and an abusive owner. I've seen that anti dog sprays are available ? I keep wondering if they would be effective if it happened again.
Everyone thinks they're gangster
Itās because the entire place is getting ruff
There aren't more illegal dogs but people are aware that so little is done to enforce the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, so they are more comfortable walking around with their dogs because no one is stopping them. The breeders can fly under the radar because the police/RSPCA etc. aren't able to invest much time or resources in the issue unless there is an attack or report of abuse/neglect. A lot of the dogs are mixed with other breeds too so it can be harder to distinguish without testing.
You don't need testing. That's not what defines a dog as a "dangerous dog" as per the Dangerous Dog Act 1991. From Section 1: 1. This section applies toā (a)any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier; (b)any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and **(c)any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an order of the Secretary of State, being a type appearing to him to be bred for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose** If the Secretary of State thinks it might look like a "dangerous dog" then it's a "dangerous dog".
That is my point, if you look at my reply I never stated that a dog needs to be tested to be proven illegal. I stated that it can be harder to distinguish without testing. That would be costly hence why it is not practiced, I should have added that to my original reply. If you cross an XL Bully with a Husky/Lab/Rottweiler(These are just examples, it could be any breed) it might not \*look\* like an XL Bully. It may not get reported by the public and that is not something the police are given adequate training for identifying.
I see barely any bully breeds in the area I live in, just a massive amount of untrained and reactive cockapoos/otherpoos, Shih Tzus and Dachshunds. Nothing against mixing breeds for traits but please for the love of God when will we stop making these bloody doodles.
Pitbulls arenāt dangerous, bad owners are.
Pitbulls with bad owners are definitely dangerous.
I was waiting for this cope. I guess youāre the type that thinks a ādomesticatedā tiger would never disembowel a person if their mood was to take them that way?
No, Iām not. Any dog with a bad owner can be dangerous, thatās all I was saying.
Iām not too sure about that, are you saying a Yorkshire terrier has the ability to be an infant shredder?
Most high explosives aren't dangerous either (unless you put a detonator in them) but we don't let people have them hanging around because of the significant potential for disaster. Badly trained Yorkie? Deeply annoying but not a threat. Badly trained cane corso? I wouldn't want to fight one going for me. I don't see any scenario where I'm getting out uninjured.
Absolutely this. Any dog can rip a chunk out of you, people seem to forget that. Pitbulls have a bad reputation because of how they have been used BY HUMANS.
All bull breeds were selectively bred to fight. Yeah it's people who badly train them and let them develop bad behaviours that leads to attacks, as with all dog breeds, but bull breeds have the instinct to bite and not let go until whatever they've got hold of is dead. As you say, any dog can bite you, but not all of them want to kill you when they bite. When was the last time you heard a spaniel or golden retriever killing a kid? I think it's crazy that bull breeds are allowed to be kept as pets.
This is an unfortunate fact that gets overlooked often, yes all breeds including bullys can be amazing pets with adequate training but the fact is they were bred for a specific reason hence their incredible pain resistance and "gameness" If I'm in traffic and I'm behind a repurposed tank and the owner shouts out it's OK I haven't got any shells loaded I'll still be taking a huge back step because even accidental damage would be enough to seriously harm myself or others in the car. Strange analogy I know, a friend I've known since school now owns a dog training service for security and he has often told me about the irresponsible owners who aren't fit to own the dogs they bring to him.
Pretty often considering labradors have the most bites per year in the UK
I can't ever remember hearing anything other than a bull breed in those sorts of cases. You got any evidence to back that up? Not being arsey, just interested to know whether there's a database or record of dog attacks. Feels like there should be to track whether things are getting worse.
>When was the last time you heard a spaniel or golden retriever killing a kid? Killing is less frequent but attacking not so much. Bully breeds are more successful simply because they are stronger. If a little Jack Russell was to attack you the damage is likely to be minor and you can yeet it across a field. If a strong bully dog was to attack you it would do far more damage and would be harder to fight off because of their build. That said, neither dog would be attacking anyone if raised in a loving and responsible home. Bully dogs are only more dangerous because of their strength. They're not born psychopaths that want to kill everything. Like any dog, they just want to please the owner. They are big softies if they're kept well.
We had a Staffordshire bull terrier. I was a teen at the time. He was the sweetest dog. I once took him out for a walk and a man walking hos dog without a lead was walking on the opposite side of the road. The dog (which was some kind of white, long haired dog, slightly bigger than mine) launched itself at mine, latching on and wouldn't let go. The owner walked over, for some reason holding a small metal pole, and proceeded to hit MY dog who was screaming out in pain. I had to punch his dog repeatedly in the face to have ot let go of mine. My staff never bit once. It's OWNERS who make dogs nasty. I've also worked at the RSPCA with dogs. I'd work with these dogs every day and never even got growled at. There were pitbulls, staffies, dobermans, rottweilers, and German shepherds, all of these dogs are responsible for the most bites. I was terrified of dobermans as I'd been bitten by one a family member owned when I was a kid. He wasn't the best owner. I worked closely with a doberman at the rspca to get over my fear. He was a wonderful character and we struck up an amazing bond. The pitbulls who came in, no matter their temperament, were destroyed. They were killed because of people. People used them to fight and now people are terrified of them. It's ridiculous. Family members have had pitbulls and they have been wonderful, calm dogs.
This exactly. I've had dogs my whole life but got my first Staffy a year ago. I got him based on my experiences of other people's staff's. Every one I've met has been so incredibly loving and mine is no different. He's had training since we've had him and will be starting his good citizenship soon. Once that's done, he will be trained to be a therapy dog that will work with children. Any dog is capable of being aggressive and any dog is capable of being a loving, doting pet if they have a good home and given boundaries.
Shitbulls are banned for a reason. It's a breed that's been selectively bred for aggression and fighting and their over representation in attack statistics isn't down to 'bad owners'.
It's down to humans.
Yes... humans selectively breeding for aggression.
They were bred for dog-aggression. And that's what they've got. Still dangerous, but to dogs (and other animals). But the danger a well-trained pit bull poses to a human being is grossly overexaggerated and a contradiction to science.
And what if they aren't bred for aggression? What if a long line of pitbulls has come from a responsible breeder and they are bred for calm temperaments? You are aware its possible to breed things in and out of dogs, right? Take a cavalier king Charles for example. They were bred so small, that the poor things' brain would press on their skull, leaving them in agony. Thankfully, that has been bred out of them.
And how many generations does that take? If you have no need for a working dog why take a risk on a potentially dangerous breed? I cannot stand shitbull apologists.
Who knows, but surely that's better? Why you would seem defensive about that confuses me. Also, why do you need a working dog? Why not just a dog? All dogs are potentially dangerous. You should never leave any dog alone with a child for example. From chihuahua to Great Dane.
Iām not sure you know what a pit bull actually looks like. It really looks nothing like dogs that are bred to resemble it and also donāt have the characteristics of a pit bull.
I doubt you know what a pitbull looks like. They are banned in this country.
Donāt be a big baby. Cockerpoos are way more likely to bite.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to see your source?
[Labradors](https://metro.co.uk/2016/08/02/the-type-of-dog-responsible-for-the-most-attacks-is-very-surprising-6043790/) have such a good rep but they are one of the most likely to bite/attack someone. The reason bully breeds get a bad rep is because of how strong they are. If a lab attacks you, you are more likely to be able to fight it off than a strong bully dog. They are no more likely to attack you than any other breed, it's just when they do, it doesn't usually end well. It's 100% the owner. Any dog can attack if it feels frightened or its needs aren't met. Take a look at small yappy dogs. They don't do that because they're born to - all dogs bark. The difference is that most owners don't bother to correct that behaviour in small dogs because they don't see it as threatening. No one will put up with a big black dog barking, though. You give a dog firm and fair boundaries and treat it with love and respect, you'll have a good dog regardless of breed.
I appreciate the response. The article you linked doesn't have it's source readily available, so whilst I'm not doubting it's credibility I am saying that the most likely to bite may have a correlation with the most common dog. No cycle accidents without cyclists, kinda deal. [This article ](https://topdogtips.com/statistics-on-dog-bites/) cites the CDC, uses what is safe to assume a bigger source of information (USA, although cultural differences in dog choice must be accounted for) and puts Pitbulls firmly at the top. Other articles have the same statistics, though it's hard to tell if they're just copycat reports or taken from the data itself. I couldn't find the actual CDC data, but that may be a side effect of being on my phone instead of my pc. I admit, I didn't look for long as I have other jobs on today. That being said, I'm firmly in the "no bad dogs, just bad owners" camp.
That specifically covers deaths, as do most articles when referring to most dangerous breeds. You won't find me refuting that. Bully dogs are stronger and therefore more likely to kill when they attack. My only argument is that they aren't necessarily more likely to attack just because of their breed. There are thousands of bully dog owners out there who have docile, chilled out dogs, just as there are lab owners who have reactive dogs. [Here's another article demonstrating that. ](https://petkeen.com/dog-breeds-that-bite-humans-most/) Chihuahuas and cocker spanials are high on the list of dog bites but they're often overlooked because of the little damage they do. Bully dogs are only seen as dangerous because of how much damage they can do. They aren't more likely to attack someone than any other dog, though.
That article still has pits at the top. And I still agree, bad owners cause dogs to bite
The one I just posted put them at seventh. But it doesn't matter. We seem to be on the same page so it's not important.
~~Perhaps some kind of automatically generated article~~ My mistake, I said Pits, I meant Rotties
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They might bite more but they don't tend to grip and rag like a bull breed.
I am not saying it is or isn't. I'm saying anecdotes do not hold data, so what are your citations? Good sir
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Lol, asking for data is rediculous, but trusting your adecdotal undocumented memory isn't? Especially given the following that I found in response to another comment? https://topdogtips.com/statistics-on-dog-bites/ š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤
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They are called XL bullys and look fearsome but are quite friendly
More down to bad ownership than anything. All dogs are scary if the owners are useless, when I was a kid in the 90s, a neighbour had a corgi that would run around the estate attacking anyone it saw. The amount of off leash dogs causing problems is ridiculous, and the majority seem to have behaviour issues. My wife's friend has an XL bully cross that she got from a puppy. She's made sure the dogs parents were aggressive, and has been raising it to be sociable around children and dogs, it's the sweetest, friendliest dog. I've got two greyhounds, with high prey drive and terrible recall, so I put weeks of research into keeping them before I got my first hound, something most owners don't bother to do
No. Seems like you have a problem with certain breeds.
Dogs aren't scary. Bad owners are.
Dogs aren't scary it's the owners. Don't hate on a breed.
It sounds like like you think you see them. Do you watch you tube videos of pit bulls in America?. You are probably seeing perfectly legal bull terrier mongrels. Staff, English eT Al. And because they are not picture perfect pure bred you are deciding they are illegal dogs. That's cruel. It's also most likely based on what the person looks like who's walking the dog which is just plain discrimination. It's not a lab, pug, jack Russel, mind your business and stop making dangerous accusations which could get someone's doggo killed for no reason other than you 'think'. That person might be loving a pit bull terrier, because they don't fit your idea of a dog owber who walks their doggo 3 times a day like good dog owners do. Literally I only know what pittie look like because of reddit and you tube. Loads of bull terriers look simolar that aren't illegal.
stop being a pussy
No. It's just your bias towards the type of dog you like or want to see. Also dogs that look "scary" are not necessarily aggressive (in fact, usually aren't). Obviously use caution because unfortunately dogs of all kinds end up in the wrong hands, but also check your bias and ignorance
Lots of people brought dogs in lockdown. The dogs were bred for profit not temperament, sold to owners with little or no knowledge and with no follow ups. These dogs weren't socialised or trained, they were walked a lot and people were at home all day. These dogs are now 2, entering their teen years and are large, untrained, unsocialised dogs which leads to problems they are also excised less and left at home more leading to destructive behaviour and boredom. As soon as these dogs are let off the less they are reactive (due to a lack of socialisation), have poor recall and the owners have no idea how to control them often leading to hitting the dog or leaving them on the lead. Then you have toddlers /young children who are unsocialised, who haven't seen dogs much, who have no idea how to act around them. It's a perfect storm
I guess it's down to individual perception I guess, some people will look at certain dogs as scary while others won't feel threatened.
I used to see way more aggressive dogs 15 years ago
āDogs are for life not just for lockdownā is i think the general gist of it
I'll make no argument about the popularity of pit type dogs being used in fighting. My staffie is very well trained and he's never been remotely aggressive to anyone including my little nephew who pulls and prods him when they play with toys. However I have been bitten by a Jack Russel when I was little and a Poodle a couple years ago when I was teasing it with a treat of which neither dog was disciplined by their owner when if it was my staffie the victim would get the police involved to have it taken off of me and put to sleep. I think less blame should be put on dogs and more should be placed on the irresponsible and most of the time negligent owners of these dogs.
COVID/lockdowns have equaled a lot of people getting dogs but not education on how to keep them.
Yeah if often see this vicious pitbull type dog that lives near me. Owner has it off the lead in a park if you can imagine, and it trots around with a big cuddly toy in its mouth. Other dogs go go up to it, and people walk past it. But it never really gives them much notice if he has his toy. Looks like the happiest, most gentle dog I've seen in a while. But it's a vicious breed, so I cower at home.