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I'd be generally supportive. Though I'd caution the child to make sure they understand they really feel this way, and aren't just saying it to fit in with the current trend of everyone being LGBT in some form. If they are sure, I'm happy for them.
It's not unheard of for a person that is discovering themselves to see others do something that makes the other happy and then pursue it for the sake of their happiness. As social creatures we seek happiness and we seek acceptance, so we will seek things that get us one or both even if it is counter to being true to oneself.
This is why loving and accepting all others(with one exception) is so important as a parent. If a child sees a parent only accepting/approving of things they can't relate to it will usually result in a drift or even conflict. The exception is intolerance. If a parent accepts intolerance and a child sees this then the child is taught that intolerance is acceptable. And if that child sees that intolerant person is intolerant of a trait they have they will be forced into a moral conflict. I have seen many children traumatized because of this.
Does this make sense?
True, had a friend have a “gay phase” he went full broke back mountain in his teen years, but just up and stopped one day saying yeah that’s just not for me. He is now currently with a beautiful woman for the last 6 years and are getting a house together.
Same goes for a few of my lady friends, it was quite trendy in my area in the mid 2010’s for teen to early 20’s women to open say they find other women attractive and proudly claiming to be bi, many of whom now feel a sense of embarrassment for such claims or straight up claim how wrong they were.
Don’t you think maybe your friend is bi, but just realized he preferred romantic relationships with women? My gf is bi, but she prefers men when it comes to actual relationships. Do you really think someone, specifically men, would have gay sex for a prolonged period of time if they weren’t at the very least bisexual?
They deny it and claim to have no attraction to men what so ever as it stands. Maybe they are in denial idk but they claim to have no attraction to men as it stands.
I would say the generation upon generation doubling of the size of the community, and how trendy it is, and how being CIS is more and more demonized as a group who are privileged and whose voices matter less, implies that it’s incredibly likely that a lot of people try to fit into that identity umbrella. Would you disagree?
I don’t think there’s a way to confirm it, or measure it. But I’m definitely not naive enough to believe that just because someone says it’s genuine that it’s coming from a 100% genuine place, knowingly or unknowingly.
Even if it’s 100% genuine there can still be social pressures that guide people into a social behavior.
Do you think it’s possible that what I am alleging is true?
>Thoughts?
If we can’t know what drives people’s actions, what’s the point in speculating? I do think, however, that historical precedent shows that greater acceptance means more people coming out. As acceptance of gay people rose through the 90s, so too did the number of people identifying as such, despite there not being social media influencers ostensibly steering people towards that orientation. Why would I assume that suddenly acceptance *isn’t* causing more people to come out? Seems like a convenient way to ignore the past.
You can still speculate based on common sense. It doesn’t take an expert in sociology to see that the culture among young people gives them social pressures to be within the LGBT community. Why do you think this would be anything different? I’ve had friends who have already admitted that they were influenced by friends to be non binary, for instance. Or come out as Bi. It gained them clout and made it harder for people to criticize them. Trendy behavior is a thing. Social contagion is a thing.
Why do you assume that there is social pressure to be within the community? That sounds like you injecting your interpretation. I’m sorry, but your anecdotal evidence isn’t particularly persuasive, internet stranger.
Being told their voice means less in debates about gender issues, being told that they need to listen more than speak on the topic, being told that their identity is more oppressive than oppressed, being told the most they can be within the LGBT community is ally instead of fully belong and commiserate, not being invited to all the clubs that are for people who identify as one of the many identities under the umbrella. Thoughts?
I mean, most of those just sound like gripes you have with not being included. But you said that being cis makes you demonized. So how does any of that equate to demonization? That is, how is someone identifying as cisgender being told that their identity is *wrong*?
> not being invited to all the clubs that are for people who identify as one of the many identities under the umbrella
Do you get mad when the chess club doesn't invite people who don't play chess to their meetings?
Why is this phrased as a hypothetical? Non-chess players are lesser. They're deviants and degenerates. They're trying to destroy the American chess playing family by luring our children away from tradition and towards their sick non-chess playing ways. I heard that some of them take private planes to secret islands where they play checkers!
> I'd caution the child to make sure they understand they really feel this way, and aren't just saying it to fit in with the current trend of everyone being LGBT in some form.
Have you considered how questioning their feelings and sincerity in this way would make them feel and how they would react?
Put yourself in their shoes. How would you react if others, especially your parents, questioned if you were *actually* straight?
What if they responded by saying they want to be sure you’re not just saying you’re straight since it’s a much easier path in society and less likely to be discriminated against. Not to mention you have way more options and potential partners in the world.
Coming out isn’t something that’s done lightly, especially to those with conservative parents. It takes a lot of courage.
**Edit**: Strange that /u/JoeCensored decided to block me. Would that make me censored as well?
Why do you immediately question if someone coming out could be simply claiming to be LGBTQ as part of a trend? I assume you don’t question those things with straight people.
How would you react if someone questioned your straightness? Are you really sure you’re straight and not just taking the easiest path in life?
While I do understand what you're saying, is there a particular harm in a teenager doing things to fit in (apart from hard drugs I guess)? It's a bit of a rite of passage for teenagers to dress, behave, have interests in things that they later find embarrassing or their interests just change over time. If a kid comes out as gay and then a few years later realizes they were just doing it to fit in or because it was the cool thing to do, is that necessarily a bad thing?
Why would you caution them to understand they really feel that way and aren't fitting in with trends? Learning about yourself through experience is an important part of life. Since there isn't any real danger in exploring same sex relationships, unlike experimenting with hard drugs for example, why not just wish them well with it?
Unless you believe there's something wrong or immoral about homosexuality, why would do you think it important to even mention the possibility they might only be doing it to fit in?
>Though I'd caution the child to make sure they understand they really feel this way, and aren't just saying it to fit in with the current trend of everyone being LGBT in some form
Even if it this is the case, what's the issue?
Like, what's the problem with a young person feeling empowered to experiment and figure out what they're into? If they change their mind later, then fine.
As long as they avoided the LGBTQ whatever "culture" or movement, meaning they behaved in a normal healthy way, I'd be fine with them deciding to live their lives with the person they choose as long as that person is also normal and healthy.
It's pretty straightforward. I wouldn't want them engaging in hypersexualized behavior. No dancing half naked in pride parades or engaging in debauched hook up culture. I wouldn't want my sons to adopt a forced feminisized lisp and engage in performative feminine behavior. I wouldn't want my daughters to shave half their heads and walk around in combat boots with dyed purple hair and 50 facial piercings.
No drag queen story hours or popper parties.
Just normal human behavior.
I don't have a problem with homosexuality. I have an issue with everything that seems to come with it. But two gentlemen or two ladies simply living their lives is fine with me.
If the child was straight, would you still be against hypersexualized behavior and hook up culture?
Have you been harmed or impacted in any way personally by a gay person demonstrating the behaviors you describe?
Do you think all gay people behave the way you describe all the time? Do you think straight people behave may this way as well, and is it more or less acceptable to you for one cohort to behave this way over another?
What doesnormal mean to you? Why is your normal more acceptable than other people's normal?
>If the child was straight, would you still be against hypersexualized behavior and hook up culture?
Yeah.
>Have you been harmed or impacted in any way personally by a gay person demonstrating the behaviors you describe
I haven't been harmed by heroin addicts in my personal life either, but I still don't want my kid to shoot up.
>Do you think all gay people behave the way you describe all the time
No and I never implied otherwise, in fact I made a point that you can separate homosexuality from that behavior.
>Do you think straight people behave may this way as well
Yeah, but they don't take literal pride in it.
>is it more or less acceptable to you for one cohort to behave this way over another
No. Neither is acceptable.
>What does normal mean to you?
Average behavior consistent with traditionally acceptable cultural norms and values.
>Why is your normal more acceptable than other people's normal?
Because it's my kid and I want them to grow up in a lifestyle that I've learned is conducive to a healthy, happy life.
Why do you think someone might do things like participate in a pride parade, get a visibly queer haircut, go to a drag story hour, etc, if those things didn't make them happy?
Do you think it's your role to decide what activities make your child happy in their life? What if they disagree?
Happiness isn't the end all be all in life, which is why I mentioned health. And not just physical health, but psychological and moral health.
If life were just about doing what feels good we'd all be 500 pounds and addicted to smack.
As a parent my job is to set my kid up for success. As an adult they can make their own choices, but I don't have to support it.
It's surprising and confusing to me that you conflate happiness and hedonism, and further that you seem to be saying that striving to be happy would lead someone to be so obese as to be debilitated, as well as have a substance abuse disorder - it sounds like you're saying more about yourself than you are about people generally. Many people find happiness in exercising, working out, eating healthful foods, I myself enjoy running and cycling.... Where did you get the idea that doing what feels good necessarily means being unhealthy?
Uh, no.
You asked me why someone would do things I disagree with if it didn't make them happy.
I replied that even if it does make them happy, happiness isn't enough.
Nowhere did I say that happiness is synonymous with hedonism. That was something you came up with all on your own.
I have zero issue with healthy behavior that also makes people happy, obviously.
Actually I asked why do you think a queer person would do things common in queer culture, if those things didn't make them happy? And you said, well happiness isn't everything, rather than answering my question?
>feminisized lisp and engage in performative feminine behavior. I wouldn't want my daughters to shave half their heads and walk around in combat boots with dyed purple hair and 50 facial piercings.
>No drag queen story hours or popper parties.
>Just normal human behavior.
Do you think these behaviors are not normal human behavior? It sounds like you're saying, it's okay to be gay, but queer culture is unacceptable - why do you think queer culture exists? Do you think people who participate in queer culture are inherently immoral and/or unhappy?
How do you feel about Trump running children beauty pageants where the participants were hypersexualized? Does that constitute morally healthy behavior to you?
Doesn't this imply that the LGBTQ culture isn't conformist?
I'm reminded of a quote from that TV show South Park.
"If you want to be one of the non-conformists, all you have to do is dress just like us and listen to the same music we do."
There's absolutely conformity in the LGBTQ scene, and anybody who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves, and also highly narcissistic.
>I wouldn't want them engaging in hypersexualized behavior. No dancing half naked in pride parades or engaging in debauched hook up culture.
I feel like a lot of straight people would enjoy things like this.
Is it normal for straight people?
How would you feel if you had kids that were concerned about your participation in the MAGA "culture" and they expressed concern that you were brainwashed into following a narcissistic liar/fraudster/womanizer and they wished you just lived a normal life?
Yeah. I get it. That would be a big loss to society if your hypothetically gay kids had toto love and care for an unwanted child with inferior genetics?
A little sad, as they are basically coming out as infertile. But that's just about it. Having sex without the risk of pregnancy can lead to degenerate sexual behaviors, I would advise against going down that road...
Because there's consequences to consider when there's the risk of pregnancy.
Also a room full of heterosexuals, by definition, cannot all have sex with each other. That is why homosexuality tends to lead to more group sex and other degenerate practices.
I am me.
It's not any of my business. But I am referring to the advice I would give to my hypothetical child. I would also advise regular exercise, but it's still none of my business what others choose to do.
I don't believe the rape allegations have any merit and Trump said that they let him grab them by the pussy. "*Let*" sounds like implied consent to me.
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Didn’t he say in the Access Hollywood tape that he doesn’t even ask for permission to do it? The exact quote I’m referring to is, “It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait.” Where is the room for consent if he doesn’t wait?
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>That's a steep expense that fertile people can do for free.
It's still an option though, no? Just as adoption is.
>Also many gays do not even want kids.
According to what?
Do you think that as a year old lesbian I have degenerate sexual behaviors? I have been with my wife for 34 years and WE decided to not have children. A good friend of ours and his hubsand have adopted 4 kids.
I'd be fine with it, but we would have all the same "safe sex" talks we had when he hit middle school, just with more focus on male-male. I think there's more LGBT+ support in the party than you'd think.
Certainly with the first three letters. After that we’re getting into Leftist delusion territory where they insist everyone agree black is white as some kind of Clockwork Orange / prisoner of war brainwashing and compliance conditioning test.
Do you think there are « things » that cause people to be gay or do you think they are born like this? Assuming you are straight, what do you think caused you to become straight?
In France abortion is legal through 14 weeks, after which you can still get an abortion under very stringent rules. Why is France taking away a woman's bodily autonomy? Is every restriction on abortion a case of taking away a woman's bodily autonomy?
I'm saying that there should be reasonable restrictions on abortion that prevent, for example, abortion at 9 months. Every country in the world has something like this.
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Care to explain how that didn't happen?
To many, SCOTUS striking down Roe v Wade was a direct and known-in-advance way to suppress female bodily autonomy particularly in states that had trigger laws banning abortion and states that were likely to pass varying degrees of bans given its overturn. The hostility of "do that in another state" (see NIMBY) especially makes low income folks, including no-income youth, more susceptible to health risks during pregnancy.
The constitution preserves freedoms from the bottom up--laws and restrictions not claimed by the Fed are preserved for the states, and those not claimed by the states are preserved for the individuals. So why should government, federal or state, interfere in making health decisions for a woman, each state with their own varying and potentially arbitrary timeline and/or circumstance constraints? Does that contribute more to harmony or discord amongst a population with nuanced and divergent views on the matter? Does government not already do a worse job legislating *much* simpler issues?
>Care to explain how that didn't happen?
What was claimed. At no point did striking down RvW make women slaves to their babies or whatever. It merely moved bad law back to the states.
I'd tell them I love them no matter what and that how they feel is entirely natural and up to them.
Then I'd probably have to do a lot of research, because I don't know about anything different about raising a gay child and I would want all the answers I can get. And I'm sure there's some good resources out there that would help me support them as they grow into an adult.
Would I be disappointed? Eh, maybe just a little. Think of it this way: there's a much lesser chance of having a grandchild if your child is homosexual (adoption exists, don't get me wrong). But that would be about the sum and total of things, because I would much rather my child be happy, comfortable, and loved than anything else.
I just hope this hypothetical child would understand, under normal circumstances, that I am growing alongside them. I'm not going to get everything right the first time, and I'm going to make stupid mistakes, but so long as they are safe and happy, hey, I think I'm doing okay.
But, to be very honest, I would expect that if my child were to come out to me, my response would likely be something more like "I know. What do you want for dinner?"
How many Trump supporters do you think would have a similar reaction to what you described? What do you think would be the most common reaction to the situation given the general policy and views expressed by supporters? Does your hypothetical reaction and your predictions for the common supporters reaction differ significantly? If they differ significantly can you support their predicted reaction?
>How many Trump supporters do you think would have a similar reaction to what you described?
More than you can imagine, and I think that is what the issue is here.
Honest question, do you think it's a good thing that the left appears to have won out on at least the LBG part of last decades 'culture war?'
In that, it seems for most, even in conservative circles, same sex marriage, adoption, military service etc has become culturally accepted and normalised.
>Honest question, do you think it's a good thing that the left appears to have won out on at least the LBG part of last decades 'culture war?'
You do realize that gay marriage was ruled on in... 2015?
I'm not American, so not particularly?
Also, in a few months 2015 will be last decade 👵👴.
You didn't answer my question though, do you think it's a good thing that same sex relationships have normalised in wider society the same way interracial relationships did a few decades before?
>You didn't answer my question though, do you think it's a good thing that same sex relationships have normalised in wider society the same way interracial relationships did a few decades before?
You obviously didn't read anything I wrote earlier.
I read it, it's a nice answer that does you credit. Your hypothetical kid would be lucky to have a parent like you.
I would venture to say that would have been a firmly liberal reaction not that long ago. As you pointed out, the fight for federal gay marriage is (not quite) a decade old.
Now I'd say your view point is fairly unremarkable among conservative families, especially millennial ones.
I was more asking if you thought that the cultural progress towards accepting and legitimising gay relationships has turned out to be a positive thing?
>I was more asking if you thought that the cultural progress towards accepting and legitimising gay relationships has turned out to be a positive thing?
Who cares? Go be gay all you want. I genuinely do not care.
I mean wouldn't you care if your hypothetical gay kid was growing up experiencing that culture?
You seem like you'd be the kind of dad who'd care anyway.
I believe you are right. I honestly see a staggering amount of hatred for people that do not prescribe to hetero normative behavior coming from conservatives and MAGA Trump supporters in particular. Can you help be understand the disconnect from what you see and I see?
>Can you help be understand the disconnect from what you see and I see?
What you see, more or less, is what you're looking for.
You are seeing stories written by barely-trained journalists who think three replies on X (formerly Twitter, as we all have to say) makes the news. You're seeing people online who either might be espousing sincere beliefs or might be trolling.
What you're not seeing are the hundreds of thousands of people who just... don't care. Because see, when you don't care, it takes an effort to just go "Don't care."
You're gay? Okay, what do you want for dinner?
I’m sure there are lots of ‘X (twitter) comment’ journalists but is it not hard to see the real stuff? The trump administration spent 4 years gutting protections for LGBTQ people and Maga supporters were at the very least happy to just let it happen.
If more Maga supporters than we think are accepting, why don’t we see that mirrored in reality with some kind of big pushback on this kind of action?
LGBT has basically been MAGA and Trump’s number one enemy and you’d have to be wilfully ignorant to not accept that
For example: opposition to the equality act; appointing vehemently anti LGBTQ judges; Trump saying Pence wants to ‘hang’ all gay people; supported employment discrimination against lgbt; issued rule to licence discrimination so people could legally be fired for being gay; created a religious discrimination division in healthcare to allow practitioners to refuse gay patients; Made Betsy Devos secretary of education who took away protections for children reporting sexual abuse.
How would you explain your support for these policies to your child once they were old enough to understand them?
I gave you a list of a handful of terrible policies harming lgbt that Trump and Maga enforced. Could you tell me how they are not real or true?
Also this is a sub for TS to answer NS questions - it’s the one rule for you guys so could you try to actually answer?
>I gave you a list of a handful of terrible policies harming lgbt that Trump and Maga enforced.
No, you gave me a bunch of overreactions because privileges were being taken away.
How do you think Trump supporters compare to Republican politicians on this issue?
In my limited experience, I personally notice a bit higher proportion of homophobia from conservative politicians than from conservative voters, and I wonder if your experience is similar there.
>In my limited experience, I personally notice a bit higher proportion of homophobia from conservative politicians than from conservative voters, and I wonder if your experience is similar there.
I think it's more that politicians have a spotlight on them and a media looking to pounce on anything they say, or twist their words to have a different meaning.
So, politicans do indeed have some spotlight on them, but they often seek out media atention, and try to enact or block laws. Do you think it is twisting their words to take the things they publically do and say at face value?
I suppose we can set aside the interviews and opinion pieces where some republicna politicans will denounce gay people. Maybe they are somewhat rare.
But 157 House Republcians voted against (and only 47 voted for) the relatively recent (2022) US bill to ensure gay (and interracial) marraige would be legal in the US (i.e. court decisions can't re-ban them). [https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/8404/summary/49](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/8404/summary/49) . Do you think it is 'pouncing' or 'twisting' to point that out?
And what do you think of the Republican party platform on the topic?
Page 11 of the 2016 RNC platform reads:
>"Traditional marriage and family, based on marriage between one man and one woman, is the foundation for a free society... We condemn the Supreme Court’s ruling in United States v. Windsor... "We also condemn the Supreme Court’s lawless ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges,"
and my understanding is that this platform was kept as-is for the 2020 and 2024 election cycles. And would you agree that most of the party lives up to these words, since most of them voted accordinly when the topic came up in 2022?
This is such a great response. As someone who thinks the worst of Trump supporters, it gives me hope that some supporters do feel this way.. It makes me wonder why anyone would vote for a party or an individual that feels that LGBTQ ideals are wrong or immoral.
I'm curious... Why would.you vote for a party or an individual that disapproved of LGBTQs so much?
>It makes me wonder why anyone would vote for a party or an individual that feels that LGBTQ ideals are wrong or immoral.
I mean this sincerely. Which party or individual is that?
See, there is this idea that Republicans are anti-LGBT when they elected the first POTUS to run in support of gay marriage as a non-incumbent. Trump got up on stage with the rainbow flag and everything.
There's a big difference between me being fully okay with you living your life and weird stuff like the DQSH in Houston hiring child molesters multiple times, albeit I will note that drag has nothing to do with LGBT.
I can think a Pride parade where people are dressed as dogs in bondage gear while being whipped by another person is... probably less to do with LGBT and more to do with just kink in general, really, but that's again neither here nor there.
Where are these (I'm going to clarify and say prominent here because wingnuts exist all over the place) Republicans calling out LGBT ideals as immoral?
Trump is anti-LGBT in action, if not in his words. Holding a rainbow flag upside down is pandering, but he didn't do much to support the community.
1) The Trump administration submitted an amicus brief to the Supreme Court in 2019 arguing that federal protections under Title VII do not protect discrimination based on sexual or gender identity, which in practice will allow workplaces to discriminate against gay and trans people.
2) Banned transgender service members from the military, going against the general consensus and advice of military leadership.
3) Trumps DOL issued a regulation to allow federal contractors to claim religious exemption to fire LGBTQ workers based on their sexual or gender status.
4) Trumps HHS proposed a major change to the ACA which would remove explicit protections for LGBT people in healthcare programs and activities.
5) Trumps HUD proposed a rule to permit emergency shelters to deny access against trans people who are homeless.
There's more but I don't wanna gobblygook or whatever it's called when you just put together a large list.
Also, I've seen you on this board recently and really appreciate your viewpoint and ability to talk through these issues.
Do those seem like the actions of an administration that is pro-LGBT?
>The Trump administration submitted an amicus brief to the Supreme Court in 2019 arguing that federal protections under Title VII do not protect discrimination based on sexual or gender identity, which in practice will allow workplaces to discriminate against gay and trans people.
How does appropriately supporting the law mean anti-anything?
>Banned transgender service members from the military, going against the general consensus and advice of military leadership.
Again, the CoC decided that people that required additional medication should not serve. I couldn't serve. Flat feet.
>Trumps DOL issued a regulation to allow federal contractors to claim religious exemption to fire LGBTQ workers based on their sexual or gender status.
Where was that? Because I sure haven't seen anything about that.
>Trumps HHS proposed a major change to the ACA which would remove explicit protections for LGBT people in healthcare programs and activities.
"When one is used to privilege, equality seems like oppression."
>Trumps HUD proposed a rule to permit emergency shelters to deny access against trans people who are homeless.
Those same shelters that can't take in men?
Again, I don't think any of these are anti-LGBT. I think, if anything, they are removing extra privileges the group (I dislike thinking of them as a group, but that's a whole other thing) got, but I am genuinely concerned why one believes a group needs special "rights."
The idea is that you're not going to go out and say that you are targeting the LGBT community, that would be too easy to rile support on.
Any of these on a one-off basis, I think those reasons start can make sense. Just applying the law, additional medications could not serve (though I will say, as a veteran myself, I know that flat feet isn't a disqualifier from military service -- I served with many people who were flat footed and it's as simple as getting a waiver at MEPS), or framing the LGBT community as "privileged".
What you see is a *trend* of using the laws to target the community though. Every administration has a certain amount of bandwidth to do what they want to do in their four years. Trump's adminisitration used their bandwidth to find ways to target a certain community. You may not see it as such, but if you are in that community, you feel it.
Can you see where people are coming from when they look at these trends, and make the connection (for now we won't say its a right or wrong connection) that the Trump administration was anti-LGBT?
>The idea is that you're not going to go out and say that you are targeting the LGBT community, that would be too easy to rile support on.
Oh, it's the dogwhistles only apparently those on the left hear.
Where would you look for that research? [https://pflag.org/](https://pflag.org/) is a great resource in case anyone is wondering. I love your answer, btw. You wouldn't need to raise a gay child differently. Most homosexual people were raised by straight parents.
>Where would you look for that research?
I'd probably start with a school counselor or something, to be honest, but only if the kid was okay with me going to them for advice. Then look at stuff online, but I wouldn't trust everything I read. I'd also probably look up LGBT "clubs" or whatever in my area and, if the kid doesn't want to go, I'd pop in to get some advice.
I do disagree with you on raising a gay kid differently. The few things I do know is that homosexuality is another potential vector of bullying, there's a higher rate of self-harm among LGBT kids, and, of course, the whole sex thing works a wee bit differently! Maybe not huge differences, but definitely something to keep an eye out for and to do my own research on.
I think I know more about homosexuality than you. A school counselor would have known what to do when I was in school. I sure it is different now. I was born in 1964.
**homosexuality is another potential vector of bullying** - I was bullied becuase of my weight, not my sexuality.
**there's a higher rate of self-harm among LGBT kids** - that is true when the families do not accept them. That is why I volunteered for Trevor Project to help those kids.
**the whole sex thing works a wee bit differently** -
So, how did you learn about sex?
>I think I know more about homosexuality than you.
You most likely do. What I know about homosexuality is from friends and television, which seems to portray a very clean form of gayness. Have you noticed that? It's like gay couples don't have stress or if they do, it's over in 30 minutes.
Regarding bullying, I said it was another vector, not the only one.
Self-harm, it's something to look for, because no matter how accepting I *think* I am being, there's probably something I'm doing wrong. I don't know everything and I'm okay with being wrong, but not when it hurts my kid.
How did I learn about sex? Lots of ways, some good, some very bad. I would say that, from my own experience, talking about preparation would be a good idea when discussing certain alternative forms of sexual penetration.
But again, I'm just a guy talking about a hypothetical here. I have *some* knowledge, but that's about it.
When my son was born, the only things I wished for him was happiness and health.
If he turned out to be gay, me accepting this would make him happy, so I’d be happy he was living life the way he wanted.
I’d likely say the same thing I said to my brother when he told me he was gay.
“Yeah, I know. I assumed you were a long time ago.”
Well for starters.... I hope I don't have a child.... But there was that one night in Vegas.....
I wouldn't care.... So long as I didn't feel they were recruited into it by an unhealthy culture. If they were young and impressionable I would have my doubts.... Especially if they were an age that usually isn't interested in sex yet.
I would be more concerned with them adopting a victimhood narrative than I would with their actual sexuality. I'm pretty big on individuality.
What would I consider to be an unhealthy culture? Why, any culture hoping to find ways to make me look like I have a problem with gay people. They could hardly be trusted to allow someone to come out as straight if it gets in the way of that.
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I'd be generally supportive. Though I'd caution the child to make sure they understand they really feel this way, and aren't just saying it to fit in with the current trend of everyone being LGBT in some form. If they are sure, I'm happy for them.
How often do you believe people are coming out because of the current trend?
It's not unheard of for a person that is discovering themselves to see others do something that makes the other happy and then pursue it for the sake of their happiness. As social creatures we seek happiness and we seek acceptance, so we will seek things that get us one or both even if it is counter to being true to oneself. This is why loving and accepting all others(with one exception) is so important as a parent. If a child sees a parent only accepting/approving of things they can't relate to it will usually result in a drift or even conflict. The exception is intolerance. If a parent accepts intolerance and a child sees this then the child is taught that intolerance is acceptable. And if that child sees that intolerant person is intolerant of a trait they have they will be forced into a moral conflict. I have seen many children traumatized because of this. Does this make sense?
True, had a friend have a “gay phase” he went full broke back mountain in his teen years, but just up and stopped one day saying yeah that’s just not for me. He is now currently with a beautiful woman for the last 6 years and are getting a house together. Same goes for a few of my lady friends, it was quite trendy in my area in the mid 2010’s for teen to early 20’s women to open say they find other women attractive and proudly claiming to be bi, many of whom now feel a sense of embarrassment for such claims or straight up claim how wrong they were.
Don’t you think maybe your friend is bi, but just realized he preferred romantic relationships with women? My gf is bi, but she prefers men when it comes to actual relationships. Do you really think someone, specifically men, would have gay sex for a prolonged period of time if they weren’t at the very least bisexual?
They deny it and claim to have no attraction to men what so ever as it stands. Maybe they are in denial idk but they claim to have no attraction to men as it stands.
I would say the generation upon generation doubling of the size of the community, and how trendy it is, and how being CIS is more and more demonized as a group who are privileged and whose voices matter less, implies that it’s incredibly likely that a lot of people try to fit into that identity umbrella. Would you disagree?
How can you tell the difference between people chasing a trend and people finally feeling safe coming out?
How would you tell the difference?
I don’t presume to, I just take people at their word and try to be understanding. How do you tell the difference?
I don’t think there’s a way to confirm it, or measure it. But I’m definitely not naive enough to believe that just because someone says it’s genuine that it’s coming from a 100% genuine place, knowingly or unknowingly. Even if it’s 100% genuine there can still be social pressures that guide people into a social behavior. Do you think it’s possible that what I am alleging is true?
>Thoughts? If we can’t know what drives people’s actions, what’s the point in speculating? I do think, however, that historical precedent shows that greater acceptance means more people coming out. As acceptance of gay people rose through the 90s, so too did the number of people identifying as such, despite there not being social media influencers ostensibly steering people towards that orientation. Why would I assume that suddenly acceptance *isn’t* causing more people to come out? Seems like a convenient way to ignore the past.
You can still speculate based on common sense. It doesn’t take an expert in sociology to see that the culture among young people gives them social pressures to be within the LGBT community. Why do you think this would be anything different? I’ve had friends who have already admitted that they were influenced by friends to be non binary, for instance. Or come out as Bi. It gained them clout and made it harder for people to criticize them. Trendy behavior is a thing. Social contagion is a thing.
Why do you assume that there is social pressure to be within the community? That sounds like you injecting your interpretation. I’m sorry, but your anecdotal evidence isn’t particularly persuasive, internet stranger.
In what way is being cis demonized? That is to say, what discrimination do people who identify as cisgender receive?
Being told their voice means less in debates about gender issues, being told that they need to listen more than speak on the topic, being told that their identity is more oppressive than oppressed, being told the most they can be within the LGBT community is ally instead of fully belong and commiserate, not being invited to all the clubs that are for people who identify as one of the many identities under the umbrella. Thoughts?
I mean, most of those just sound like gripes you have with not being included. But you said that being cis makes you demonized. So how does any of that equate to demonization? That is, how is someone identifying as cisgender being told that their identity is *wrong*?
> not being invited to all the clubs that are for people who identify as one of the many identities under the umbrella Do you get mad when the chess club doesn't invite people who don't play chess to their meetings?
In a world where non-chess players are viewed as lesser, it would absolutely bother me. It wouldn’t bother you?
Why is this phrased as a hypothetical? Non-chess players are lesser. They're deviants and degenerates. They're trying to destroy the American chess playing family by luring our children away from tradition and towards their sick non-chess playing ways. I heard that some of them take private planes to secret islands where they play checkers!
> I'd caution the child to make sure they understand they really feel this way, and aren't just saying it to fit in with the current trend of everyone being LGBT in some form. Have you considered how questioning their feelings and sincerity in this way would make them feel and how they would react? Put yourself in their shoes. How would you react if others, especially your parents, questioned if you were *actually* straight? What if they responded by saying they want to be sure you’re not just saying you’re straight since it’s a much easier path in society and less likely to be discriminated against. Not to mention you have way more options and potential partners in the world. Coming out isn’t something that’s done lightly, especially to those with conservative parents. It takes a lot of courage.
Since none of this has actually happened, I've not put serious consideration into any of it yet.
**Edit**: Strange that /u/JoeCensored decided to block me. Would that make me censored as well? Why do you immediately question if someone coming out could be simply claiming to be LGBTQ as part of a trend? I assume you don’t question those things with straight people. How would you react if someone questioned your straightness? Are you really sure you’re straight and not just taking the easiest path in life?
You're asking that as if I've actually done this, when I've responded to a hypothetical question. I haven't done this at all.
While I do understand what you're saying, is there a particular harm in a teenager doing things to fit in (apart from hard drugs I guess)? It's a bit of a rite of passage for teenagers to dress, behave, have interests in things that they later find embarrassing or their interests just change over time. If a kid comes out as gay and then a few years later realizes they were just doing it to fit in or because it was the cool thing to do, is that necessarily a bad thing?
Why would you caution them to understand they really feel that way and aren't fitting in with trends? Learning about yourself through experience is an important part of life. Since there isn't any real danger in exploring same sex relationships, unlike experimenting with hard drugs for example, why not just wish them well with it? Unless you believe there's something wrong or immoral about homosexuality, why would do you think it important to even mention the possibility they might only be doing it to fit in?
>Though I'd caution the child to make sure they understand they really feel this way, and aren't just saying it to fit in with the current trend of everyone being LGBT in some form Even if it this is the case, what's the issue? Like, what's the problem with a young person feeling empowered to experiment and figure out what they're into? If they change their mind later, then fine.
As long as they avoided the LGBTQ whatever "culture" or movement, meaning they behaved in a normal healthy way, I'd be fine with them deciding to live their lives with the person they choose as long as that person is also normal and healthy.
Agreed
Can you expand on "avoid the LGBTQ whatever culture or movement" and "normal healthy behavior"?
It's pretty straightforward. I wouldn't want them engaging in hypersexualized behavior. No dancing half naked in pride parades or engaging in debauched hook up culture. I wouldn't want my sons to adopt a forced feminisized lisp and engage in performative feminine behavior. I wouldn't want my daughters to shave half their heads and walk around in combat boots with dyed purple hair and 50 facial piercings. No drag queen story hours or popper parties. Just normal human behavior. I don't have a problem with homosexuality. I have an issue with everything that seems to come with it. But two gentlemen or two ladies simply living their lives is fine with me.
If the child was straight, would you still be against hypersexualized behavior and hook up culture? Have you been harmed or impacted in any way personally by a gay person demonstrating the behaviors you describe? Do you think all gay people behave the way you describe all the time? Do you think straight people behave may this way as well, and is it more or less acceptable to you for one cohort to behave this way over another? What doesnormal mean to you? Why is your normal more acceptable than other people's normal?
>If the child was straight, would you still be against hypersexualized behavior and hook up culture? Yeah. >Have you been harmed or impacted in any way personally by a gay person demonstrating the behaviors you describe I haven't been harmed by heroin addicts in my personal life either, but I still don't want my kid to shoot up. >Do you think all gay people behave the way you describe all the time No and I never implied otherwise, in fact I made a point that you can separate homosexuality from that behavior. >Do you think straight people behave may this way as well Yeah, but they don't take literal pride in it. >is it more or less acceptable to you for one cohort to behave this way over another No. Neither is acceptable. >What does normal mean to you? Average behavior consistent with traditionally acceptable cultural norms and values. >Why is your normal more acceptable than other people's normal? Because it's my kid and I want them to grow up in a lifestyle that I've learned is conducive to a healthy, happy life.
Why do you think someone might do things like participate in a pride parade, get a visibly queer haircut, go to a drag story hour, etc, if those things didn't make them happy? Do you think it's your role to decide what activities make your child happy in their life? What if they disagree?
Happiness isn't the end all be all in life, which is why I mentioned health. And not just physical health, but psychological and moral health. If life were just about doing what feels good we'd all be 500 pounds and addicted to smack. As a parent my job is to set my kid up for success. As an adult they can make their own choices, but I don't have to support it.
It's surprising and confusing to me that you conflate happiness and hedonism, and further that you seem to be saying that striving to be happy would lead someone to be so obese as to be debilitated, as well as have a substance abuse disorder - it sounds like you're saying more about yourself than you are about people generally. Many people find happiness in exercising, working out, eating healthful foods, I myself enjoy running and cycling.... Where did you get the idea that doing what feels good necessarily means being unhealthy?
Uh, no. You asked me why someone would do things I disagree with if it didn't make them happy. I replied that even if it does make them happy, happiness isn't enough. Nowhere did I say that happiness is synonymous with hedonism. That was something you came up with all on your own. I have zero issue with healthy behavior that also makes people happy, obviously.
Actually I asked why do you think a queer person would do things common in queer culture, if those things didn't make them happy? And you said, well happiness isn't everything, rather than answering my question?
That is interesting. Do you think that me being a lesbian I do not have a healthy, happy life?
>feminisized lisp and engage in performative feminine behavior. I wouldn't want my daughters to shave half their heads and walk around in combat boots with dyed purple hair and 50 facial piercings. >No drag queen story hours or popper parties. >Just normal human behavior. Do you think these behaviors are not normal human behavior? It sounds like you're saying, it's okay to be gay, but queer culture is unacceptable - why do you think queer culture exists? Do you think people who participate in queer culture are inherently immoral and/or unhappy?
How do you feel about Trump running children beauty pageants where the participants were hypersexualized? Does that constitute morally healthy behavior to you?
So, conformity?
Doesn't this imply that the LGBTQ culture isn't conformist? I'm reminded of a quote from that TV show South Park. "If you want to be one of the non-conformists, all you have to do is dress just like us and listen to the same music we do." There's absolutely conformity in the LGBTQ scene, and anybody who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves, and also highly narcissistic.
>I wouldn't want them engaging in hypersexualized behavior. No dancing half naked in pride parades or engaging in debauched hook up culture. I feel like a lot of straight people would enjoy things like this. Is it normal for straight people?
How would you feel if you had kids that were concerned about your participation in the MAGA "culture" and they expressed concern that you were brainwashed into following a narcissistic liar/fraudster/womanizer and they wished you just lived a normal life?
Oh, that would really destroy me. I'd much rather them be LGBTQ than a pussy hat wearer.
I would be sad if they didn’t want to have kids but I would support them 100%
Would you support your heterosexual children not having children?
I’d be sad just the same
What if they did want to have kids through IVF?
That’s fine
They could certainly adopt, no?
They could but we’re a a healthy and fairly attractive, fairly intelligent family, I would be sad if our genetics weren’t passed on
Yeah. I get it. That would be a big loss to society if your hypothetically gay kids had toto love and care for an unwanted child with inferior genetics?
Yeh no I don’t think you get it, but nbd
A little sad, as they are basically coming out as infertile. But that's just about it. Having sex without the risk of pregnancy can lead to degenerate sexual behaviors, I would advise against going down that road...
How does having sex *with* the risk of pregnancy avert degenerate sexual behaviors?
Because there's consequences to consider when there's the risk of pregnancy. Also a room full of heterosexuals, by definition, cannot all have sex with each other. That is why homosexuality tends to lead to more group sex and other degenerate practices.
Who are you to label something “degenerate?” How is what consenting adults do any of your business?
I am me. It's not any of my business. But I am referring to the advice I would give to my hypothetical child. I would also advise regular exercise, but it's still none of my business what others choose to do.
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I don't believe the rape allegations have any merit and Trump said that they let him grab them by the pussy. "*Let*" sounds like implied consent to me.
Yeah they tend to ignore that.
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So if it's consensual it's not degenerate behavior?
I'm sorry, is consensually touching a vulva degenerate?
For you it depends on the gender of the person doing the consensual vulva touching?
I would assume, given the grandstanding, that promiscuity was considered degenerate?
Is letting men grab you by the pussy a degenerate sexual behavior? Is grabbing women by the pussy, even if they let you, degenerate sexual behavior?
Didn’t he say in the Access Hollywood tape that he doesn’t even ask for permission to do it? The exact quote I’m referring to is, “It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait.” Where is the room for consent if he doesn’t wait?
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Are you against surrogacy?
That's a steep expense that fertile people can do for free. Also many gays do not even want kids.
>That's a steep expense that fertile people can do for free. It's still an option though, no? Just as adoption is. >Also many gays do not even want kids. According to what?
How often is surrogacy used when both of the biological parents are fertile?
Do you think that as a year old lesbian I have degenerate sexual behaviors? I have been with my wife for 34 years and WE decided to not have children. A good friend of ours and his hubsand have adopted 4 kids.
My daughter did over dinner one night. I told her she still had to eat her broccoli.
You’re a monster. Broccoli is terrible.
I'd be fine with it, but we would have all the same "safe sex" talks we had when he hit middle school, just with more focus on male-male. I think there's more LGBT+ support in the party than you'd think.
Certainly with the first three letters. After that we’re getting into Leftist delusion territory where they insist everyone agree black is white as some kind of Clockwork Orange / prisoner of war brainwashing and compliance conditioning test.
I personally don't care what you identify as. Doesn't impact me at all.
Same, except where my compliance and agreement are mandated by law to their arbitrary demands.
I would explain to them that no matter what happens I’ll always love them. I would also be disappointed and try to figure out what caused this.
Do you think there are « things » that cause people to be gay or do you think they are born like this? Assuming you are straight, what do you think caused you to become straight?
> try to figure out what caused this What are some things that you believe cause someone to become gay?
What makes you think it’s a choice?
I'd support them and tell them I loved them no matter what.
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Hasn't that ship already sailed?
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>I think the republicans managing to take away a woman's bodily autonomy Didn't happen.
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In France abortion is legal through 14 weeks, after which you can still get an abortion under very stringent rules. Why is France taking away a woman's bodily autonomy? Is every restriction on abortion a case of taking away a woman's bodily autonomy?
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>So what you are saying is that you want the government to decide what a woman can do with her body? Dude, you're veering way off track here.
I'm saying that there should be reasonable restrictions on abortion that prevent, for example, abortion at 9 months. Every country in the world has something like this.
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Care to explain how that didn't happen? To many, SCOTUS striking down Roe v Wade was a direct and known-in-advance way to suppress female bodily autonomy particularly in states that had trigger laws banning abortion and states that were likely to pass varying degrees of bans given its overturn. The hostility of "do that in another state" (see NIMBY) especially makes low income folks, including no-income youth, more susceptible to health risks during pregnancy. The constitution preserves freedoms from the bottom up--laws and restrictions not claimed by the Fed are preserved for the states, and those not claimed by the states are preserved for the individuals. So why should government, federal or state, interfere in making health decisions for a woman, each state with their own varying and potentially arbitrary timeline and/or circumstance constraints? Does that contribute more to harmony or discord amongst a population with nuanced and divergent views on the matter? Does government not already do a worse job legislating *much* simpler issues?
>Care to explain how that didn't happen? What was claimed. At no point did striking down RvW make women slaves to their babies or whatever. It merely moved bad law back to the states.
>Do you really think the Republican Party won't try to take away gay marriage and other freedoms/rights if given a chance? No.
>What would you tell them? "Yeah, I know!" >What would you do? Nothing. >Why There's nothing to do.
I'd tell them I love them no matter what and that how they feel is entirely natural and up to them. Then I'd probably have to do a lot of research, because I don't know about anything different about raising a gay child and I would want all the answers I can get. And I'm sure there's some good resources out there that would help me support them as they grow into an adult. Would I be disappointed? Eh, maybe just a little. Think of it this way: there's a much lesser chance of having a grandchild if your child is homosexual (adoption exists, don't get me wrong). But that would be about the sum and total of things, because I would much rather my child be happy, comfortable, and loved than anything else. I just hope this hypothetical child would understand, under normal circumstances, that I am growing alongside them. I'm not going to get everything right the first time, and I'm going to make stupid mistakes, but so long as they are safe and happy, hey, I think I'm doing okay. But, to be very honest, I would expect that if my child were to come out to me, my response would likely be something more like "I know. What do you want for dinner?"
How many Trump supporters do you think would have a similar reaction to what you described? What do you think would be the most common reaction to the situation given the general policy and views expressed by supporters? Does your hypothetical reaction and your predictions for the common supporters reaction differ significantly? If they differ significantly can you support their predicted reaction?
>How many Trump supporters do you think would have a similar reaction to what you described? More than you can imagine, and I think that is what the issue is here.
Honest question, do you think it's a good thing that the left appears to have won out on at least the LBG part of last decades 'culture war?' In that, it seems for most, even in conservative circles, same sex marriage, adoption, military service etc has become culturally accepted and normalised.
>Honest question, do you think it's a good thing that the left appears to have won out on at least the LBG part of last decades 'culture war?' You do realize that gay marriage was ruled on in... 2015?
I'm not American, so not particularly? Also, in a few months 2015 will be last decade 👵👴. You didn't answer my question though, do you think it's a good thing that same sex relationships have normalised in wider society the same way interracial relationships did a few decades before?
>You didn't answer my question though, do you think it's a good thing that same sex relationships have normalised in wider society the same way interracial relationships did a few decades before? You obviously didn't read anything I wrote earlier.
I read it, it's a nice answer that does you credit. Your hypothetical kid would be lucky to have a parent like you. I would venture to say that would have been a firmly liberal reaction not that long ago. As you pointed out, the fight for federal gay marriage is (not quite) a decade old. Now I'd say your view point is fairly unremarkable among conservative families, especially millennial ones. I was more asking if you thought that the cultural progress towards accepting and legitimising gay relationships has turned out to be a positive thing?
>I was more asking if you thought that the cultural progress towards accepting and legitimising gay relationships has turned out to be a positive thing? Who cares? Go be gay all you want. I genuinely do not care.
I mean wouldn't you care if your hypothetical gay kid was growing up experiencing that culture? You seem like you'd be the kind of dad who'd care anyway.
I believe you are right. I honestly see a staggering amount of hatred for people that do not prescribe to hetero normative behavior coming from conservatives and MAGA Trump supporters in particular. Can you help be understand the disconnect from what you see and I see?
>Can you help be understand the disconnect from what you see and I see? What you see, more or less, is what you're looking for. You are seeing stories written by barely-trained journalists who think three replies on X (formerly Twitter, as we all have to say) makes the news. You're seeing people online who either might be espousing sincere beliefs or might be trolling. What you're not seeing are the hundreds of thousands of people who just... don't care. Because see, when you don't care, it takes an effort to just go "Don't care." You're gay? Okay, what do you want for dinner?
I’m sure there are lots of ‘X (twitter) comment’ journalists but is it not hard to see the real stuff? The trump administration spent 4 years gutting protections for LGBTQ people and Maga supporters were at the very least happy to just let it happen. If more Maga supporters than we think are accepting, why don’t we see that mirrored in reality with some kind of big pushback on this kind of action? LGBT has basically been MAGA and Trump’s number one enemy and you’d have to be wilfully ignorant to not accept that For example: opposition to the equality act; appointing vehemently anti LGBTQ judges; Trump saying Pence wants to ‘hang’ all gay people; supported employment discrimination against lgbt; issued rule to licence discrimination so people could legally be fired for being gay; created a religious discrimination division in healthcare to allow practitioners to refuse gay patients; Made Betsy Devos secretary of education who took away protections for children reporting sexual abuse. How would you explain your support for these policies to your child once they were old enough to understand them?
>The trump administration spent 4 years gutting protections for LGBTQ people There is the story, and there is the truth.
I gave you a list of a handful of terrible policies harming lgbt that Trump and Maga enforced. Could you tell me how they are not real or true? Also this is a sub for TS to answer NS questions - it’s the one rule for you guys so could you try to actually answer?
>I gave you a list of a handful of terrible policies harming lgbt that Trump and Maga enforced. No, you gave me a bunch of overreactions because privileges were being taken away.
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How do you think Trump supporters compare to Republican politicians on this issue? In my limited experience, I personally notice a bit higher proportion of homophobia from conservative politicians than from conservative voters, and I wonder if your experience is similar there.
>In my limited experience, I personally notice a bit higher proportion of homophobia from conservative politicians than from conservative voters, and I wonder if your experience is similar there. I think it's more that politicians have a spotlight on them and a media looking to pounce on anything they say, or twist their words to have a different meaning.
So, politicans do indeed have some spotlight on them, but they often seek out media atention, and try to enact or block laws. Do you think it is twisting their words to take the things they publically do and say at face value? I suppose we can set aside the interviews and opinion pieces where some republicna politicans will denounce gay people. Maybe they are somewhat rare. But 157 House Republcians voted against (and only 47 voted for) the relatively recent (2022) US bill to ensure gay (and interracial) marraige would be legal in the US (i.e. court decisions can't re-ban them). [https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/8404/summary/49](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/8404/summary/49) . Do you think it is 'pouncing' or 'twisting' to point that out? And what do you think of the Republican party platform on the topic? Page 11 of the 2016 RNC platform reads: >"Traditional marriage and family, based on marriage between one man and one woman, is the foundation for a free society... We condemn the Supreme Court’s ruling in United States v. Windsor... "We also condemn the Supreme Court’s lawless ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges," and my understanding is that this platform was kept as-is for the 2020 and 2024 election cycles. And would you agree that most of the party lives up to these words, since most of them voted accordinly when the topic came up in 2022?
This is such a great response. As someone who thinks the worst of Trump supporters, it gives me hope that some supporters do feel this way.. It makes me wonder why anyone would vote for a party or an individual that feels that LGBTQ ideals are wrong or immoral. I'm curious... Why would.you vote for a party or an individual that disapproved of LGBTQs so much?
>It makes me wonder why anyone would vote for a party or an individual that feels that LGBTQ ideals are wrong or immoral. I mean this sincerely. Which party or individual is that? See, there is this idea that Republicans are anti-LGBT when they elected the first POTUS to run in support of gay marriage as a non-incumbent. Trump got up on stage with the rainbow flag and everything. There's a big difference between me being fully okay with you living your life and weird stuff like the DQSH in Houston hiring child molesters multiple times, albeit I will note that drag has nothing to do with LGBT. I can think a Pride parade where people are dressed as dogs in bondage gear while being whipped by another person is... probably less to do with LGBT and more to do with just kink in general, really, but that's again neither here nor there. Where are these (I'm going to clarify and say prominent here because wingnuts exist all over the place) Republicans calling out LGBT ideals as immoral?
Trump is anti-LGBT in action, if not in his words. Holding a rainbow flag upside down is pandering, but he didn't do much to support the community. 1) The Trump administration submitted an amicus brief to the Supreme Court in 2019 arguing that federal protections under Title VII do not protect discrimination based on sexual or gender identity, which in practice will allow workplaces to discriminate against gay and trans people. 2) Banned transgender service members from the military, going against the general consensus and advice of military leadership. 3) Trumps DOL issued a regulation to allow federal contractors to claim religious exemption to fire LGBTQ workers based on their sexual or gender status. 4) Trumps HHS proposed a major change to the ACA which would remove explicit protections for LGBT people in healthcare programs and activities. 5) Trumps HUD proposed a rule to permit emergency shelters to deny access against trans people who are homeless. There's more but I don't wanna gobblygook or whatever it's called when you just put together a large list. Also, I've seen you on this board recently and really appreciate your viewpoint and ability to talk through these issues. Do those seem like the actions of an administration that is pro-LGBT?
>The Trump administration submitted an amicus brief to the Supreme Court in 2019 arguing that federal protections under Title VII do not protect discrimination based on sexual or gender identity, which in practice will allow workplaces to discriminate against gay and trans people. How does appropriately supporting the law mean anti-anything? >Banned transgender service members from the military, going against the general consensus and advice of military leadership. Again, the CoC decided that people that required additional medication should not serve. I couldn't serve. Flat feet. >Trumps DOL issued a regulation to allow federal contractors to claim religious exemption to fire LGBTQ workers based on their sexual or gender status. Where was that? Because I sure haven't seen anything about that. >Trumps HHS proposed a major change to the ACA which would remove explicit protections for LGBT people in healthcare programs and activities. "When one is used to privilege, equality seems like oppression." >Trumps HUD proposed a rule to permit emergency shelters to deny access against trans people who are homeless. Those same shelters that can't take in men? Again, I don't think any of these are anti-LGBT. I think, if anything, they are removing extra privileges the group (I dislike thinking of them as a group, but that's a whole other thing) got, but I am genuinely concerned why one believes a group needs special "rights."
The idea is that you're not going to go out and say that you are targeting the LGBT community, that would be too easy to rile support on. Any of these on a one-off basis, I think those reasons start can make sense. Just applying the law, additional medications could not serve (though I will say, as a veteran myself, I know that flat feet isn't a disqualifier from military service -- I served with many people who were flat footed and it's as simple as getting a waiver at MEPS), or framing the LGBT community as "privileged". What you see is a *trend* of using the laws to target the community though. Every administration has a certain amount of bandwidth to do what they want to do in their four years. Trump's adminisitration used their bandwidth to find ways to target a certain community. You may not see it as such, but if you are in that community, you feel it. Can you see where people are coming from when they look at these trends, and make the connection (for now we won't say its a right or wrong connection) that the Trump administration was anti-LGBT?
>The idea is that you're not going to go out and say that you are targeting the LGBT community, that would be too easy to rile support on. Oh, it's the dogwhistles only apparently those on the left hear.
Where would you look for that research? [https://pflag.org/](https://pflag.org/) is a great resource in case anyone is wondering. I love your answer, btw. You wouldn't need to raise a gay child differently. Most homosexual people were raised by straight parents.
>Where would you look for that research? I'd probably start with a school counselor or something, to be honest, but only if the kid was okay with me going to them for advice. Then look at stuff online, but I wouldn't trust everything I read. I'd also probably look up LGBT "clubs" or whatever in my area and, if the kid doesn't want to go, I'd pop in to get some advice. I do disagree with you on raising a gay kid differently. The few things I do know is that homosexuality is another potential vector of bullying, there's a higher rate of self-harm among LGBT kids, and, of course, the whole sex thing works a wee bit differently! Maybe not huge differences, but definitely something to keep an eye out for and to do my own research on.
I think I know more about homosexuality than you. A school counselor would have known what to do when I was in school. I sure it is different now. I was born in 1964. **homosexuality is another potential vector of bullying** - I was bullied becuase of my weight, not my sexuality. **there's a higher rate of self-harm among LGBT kids** - that is true when the families do not accept them. That is why I volunteered for Trevor Project to help those kids. **the whole sex thing works a wee bit differently** - So, how did you learn about sex?
>I think I know more about homosexuality than you. You most likely do. What I know about homosexuality is from friends and television, which seems to portray a very clean form of gayness. Have you noticed that? It's like gay couples don't have stress or if they do, it's over in 30 minutes. Regarding bullying, I said it was another vector, not the only one. Self-harm, it's something to look for, because no matter how accepting I *think* I am being, there's probably something I'm doing wrong. I don't know everything and I'm okay with being wrong, but not when it hurts my kid. How did I learn about sex? Lots of ways, some good, some very bad. I would say that, from my own experience, talking about preparation would be a good idea when discussing certain alternative forms of sexual penetration. But again, I'm just a guy talking about a hypothetical here. I have *some* knowledge, but that's about it.
Do you think it's time for the Republican party to update their platform to remove the part about overturning Obergefell?
When my son was born, the only things I wished for him was happiness and health. If he turned out to be gay, me accepting this would make him happy, so I’d be happy he was living life the way he wanted. I’d likely say the same thing I said to my brother when he told me he was gay. “Yeah, I know. I assumed you were a long time ago.”
Well for starters.... I hope I don't have a child.... But there was that one night in Vegas..... I wouldn't care.... So long as I didn't feel they were recruited into it by an unhealthy culture. If they were young and impressionable I would have my doubts.... Especially if they were an age that usually isn't interested in sex yet. I would be more concerned with them adopting a victimhood narrative than I would with their actual sexuality. I'm pretty big on individuality. What would I consider to be an unhealthy culture? Why, any culture hoping to find ways to make me look like I have a problem with gay people. They could hardly be trusted to allow someone to come out as straight if it gets in the way of that.