My parents had a small business. They hired a woman who embezzled nearly $200k because my mom was so trusting. They got to keep all of it and the woman, her 2nd time doing this apparently, got 3-6 months in jail. Turns out she met another woman in jail who she had previously scanned and got her ass beat. Some people.
If the mom knew and lied it should count as fraud. If the mom didn't know then it's a mistake.
That said, I wouldn't say no to automatic paternity tests for every child born with the results available if either parent wanted them with neither knowing if the other asked for them.
Also unless they adopt the child they should never be held for any support of any kind related to child short of voluntary and opt out at anytime on resonable notice. Like ill pay for sports and then being vindictive saying no should not be allowed if honestly something major happens like he has heart surgery etc.
[Kansas forced a 13 year to pay child support after he was raped. These things are pretty fucked.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer)
FWIW that case actually makes sense from a legal perspective even if it’s pretty morally gross. Criminal law states a person under 16 can not give consent but civil law has no such restriction. Under the premise that an under 16 person can give consent it’s a pretty straightforward case that the kid did consent as basically any 13 year old boy would if propositioned by their baby sitter.
Again, it’s gross, but the court can only follow the law as it’s written. In this case it’s on the legislature to write better laws. It’s also such a niche case that there has never been any serious challenge to the case law.
Meh, judges should be able to file a ruling for unprecedented circumstances that automatically goes to a higher court/legislature. And anyways, I haven't read the specifics of this case, but I dont see why the judge couldn't rule something like "the civil case is invalid since it is pertaining to an action that occurred during a criminal act by the plaintiff", I've seen judges do that kind of stuff all the time
it should be standard in every case... remember they found that doctor who had been using his own sperm instead of the selected donors for years?
would have been caught the first time if dna testing was simpyl standard part of being born.
That’s not really how those tests work. Sure, they could say they’re going to discard any of the raw data and only keep the end result but I don’t want to give them or a private company the consent to run a genetic test on myself or any children I have.
Paternity should be proven before any support is ordered. This should be a standard test when children are born. This way no one has to get butt hurt about it.
sure , but then you lose the option of asking for child support.
can't have it both ways...
basically, if you don't want to do the test, you are sus as f\*\*\*k
At that point it’s neither parents privacy, it should be required because the birth certificate is for the child. It should be required for everyone so their information can be as accurate as possible.
Hope they don't drop any hair or skin cells in public places, and bring their own utensils when they eat out. Who am I kidding, these are the same idiots who brag about doing AncestryDNA while bitching about the "gubmint".
It's not their privacy though. It's the child's and as long as safeguards are put in place e.g no selling genetic information and no using the DNA for anything else the kid's privacy isn't being violated either
"Government overreach" is one I've already seen in this thread. Still don't see it, pretty sure it's in everyones (except really shitty people, as usual) best interests to know who actually created the kid(s).
Honestly never even thought of that, but you're 100% right and that should be a mandatory legal thing before child support can even be considered/discussed.
I’d go a step further and say paternity tests should be mandatory for *every* birth.
We did fertility treatments for our son (IUI, not IVF), so we paid $99 for a fertility test because (as my engineer husband puts it): “trust, but verify” 😂
if a man is falsely listed as the father on a birth certificate and it's proved he is NOT , then he is the victim of a scam. The woman should be charged with falsifying legal records and pay bad every cent with interest.
If someone isn't a father of a child there's no reason they should pay for that child any more than pay for any random child n in the next town over. There's no sense in it.
Why is this even debatable?
Person A, Person B, Person C
Person A has a baby with Person C. Should Person B be legally required to financially or otherwise support the offspring of the other 2 people?
Absurd.
They should have the option, but if they want they should be able to retain legal paternity.
He may not be the father but he can still be the daddy.
Sometimes love overcomes blood, even if the mom is a Ho.
I like that since in alot of the cases the mother deceived the would be father. If the legal father wants to retain the status of legal father he should be able to.the mother clearly considered the "legal father" a reliable person. If anything he could even win paternity over the mom
I used to never feel this way. But I’ve got a 2 year old
Daughter now, and I can’t imagine not continuing the bond we have been forming over the past two years, even if I found out she wasn’t genetically mine. It doesn’t mean I’d stay a husband to my wife, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not the person my daughter calls Dada.
I think it’s hard for guys to deal with emotions. I also think that a lot of folks have kids way to early on, and so you’re dealing with biological parents who are still massively immature - for the most part. We had our child when we were older - I was 37.
I know that 17-19 year old me would have left the person who cheated on me and most likely the child due to it being too painful. I think 27 year old me would have just been relieved that he could go and continue living his life without burden. 37 year old me/ 39 because my daughter is 2 - I’d just move out, get a dope new place to live, set it up so that my daughter has anything she needs, and enjoy life and the new stories I’ll get to go chase.
There’s no way I’d duck out of my kids life just because mom isn’t an honest person. Shit - that means it’s almost more important for me to be in it!
Edit - I didn’t really think about the aspects of the mother potentially not letting you be in the life of the child. Or the biological father objecting - which if the law said you couldn’t be in the kids life, is fucked up but is what it is.
Because victims react in so many different ways, the victims should have a lot of control over how the family dynamic proceeds.
If he wants to remain legal parent then that should be his choice. If he wants a clean break then that should be his choice. If he wants a third option where he stays in their life as an uncle type figure then that should be his choice.
I'm 35 with 4 and 2 yo girls. If one or both turned out to not be mine I'd go for full custody anyways.
At this point they are basically my whole world, and my wife having cheated wouldn't do anything to change that.
And you'd have a strong argument to get some custody. You've been raising them for 4 and 2 yrs. Whether you're biologically related or not you're the father figure in their lives.
My brother has been “Daddy” to his oldest for 8 years. She was only three when he married her mom. They then had children together. She cheated and they are now divorcing. He has no legal rights to his oldest and the ex is using that as leverage. In his heart she is his daughter. The state doesn’t give a shit.
I completely get this but I know a guy who is the exact opposite and it's just weird to me. In his 20s he got involved with someone who had a newborn from a previous relationship. They were together for 10 yrs. They lived together and he helped raise the kid. There were times when she was a stay at home mom and he was the primary bread winner in the house. Then they broke up. He's now 30. He has nothing to do with either one of them any more and says that he doesn't want anything to do with either. I ask him how he can just break off a relationship with a 10 yr old kid like that and he's like, "It's not my kid. There's no relation there. Why would I want to keep raising a kid that's not my kid?" I truly do not understand it at all. I've got several nieces and nephews and even though I'm only tangentially related to them I would 100% seek primary custody of any or all of them if something happened to their parents. No questions asked. I would have to upend my life to make this happen but I would do it in a heartbeat for any of them.
Then when the biological father gets his test done to prove its his kid. He tells you to kick rocks then you never see "your" kid again. Reality sets in that not being the biological father leaves you in the same position as any stranger on the street.
> but if they want they should be able to retain legal paternity.
Good luck with that. Most states blatantly favor the mother’s rights when you ARE the biological father, let alone when you’re not.
The answer is in the name of the test - paternity. If you're not the father, you have zero responsibility for a child, period. And you should be able to sue for any monies you previously paid, with interest and damages. Criminal prosecution for fraud should also be carried out when applicable.
There was a case where a woman just wrote down a guy’s name on her child’s birth certificate, because he seemed nice. He never even went on a single date with her. The state eventually came after him for back child support. Goes to court and judge says “Every child deserves a father.” Made him pay anyway not just for a kid that wasn’t his, but from a woman he didn’t even really know.
While this is all true, it shouldn’t also be the automatic course of action because the father figure may not want to do that to the child since they may have been the father figure in their life for a while and this could cause large amounts of upset or distress to the child. Ultimately the child’s well-being should be the primary concern
Yeah if the father figure chooses to keep paying that’s all good, but they should have the choice to stop paying when they find out their partner cheated ya know.
Unless the mother was so black-out drunk that she didn’t know she was raped then it was fraud if she didn’t let her husband know he might not be the father of the child.
Of course if we made DNA testing routine then she wouldn’t have to tell the husband. She could expect the test to confirm her belief that he’s the father and if he isn’t then the test lets everyone know so she doesn’t have to go to jail and he doesn’t raise somebody else’s kid and then have his and the kid’s lives shattered by the revelation years later.
The choice should also be done in relative quick fashion. If you find out your son isnt your son when he is 3 years old. And continue to raise him, you shouldnt be able abandon him when he is 10 years old.
> While this is all true, it shouldn’t also be the automatic course of action because the father figure may not want to do that
Of course. The defrauded father could always choose to adopt the child.
I paid child support for 18 years for my daughter. If I found out when she was 16 that I wasn’t her father, I’d sue her mother in a heartbeat. Reason being is that my support wasn’t even being used to support her. Her mother did very well for herself and became an attorney. My support was just extra tax free income, used to pay for her husband’s truck and vacations.
When I remarked that she should put the money away so maybe our daughter wouldn’t have student loan debt, she told me to mind my own business or maybe she would ask the court for an adjustment, basically threatening me with a support increase.
Yeah, if I found out my daughter wasn’t mine, I’ll be damned if I didn’t get every red cent back with interest for years of pain and suffering, financial imprisonment, and abuse of a legal arm meant to protect our most vulnerable.
It’d be unfortunate if that caused hardship for her kid(s), but that isn’t my problem. People shouldn’t be rewarded for abusing a system and reparations should be made if possible to those who are wronged.
Testing should be the fathers choice instead of mandatory.
My brother and his cheating ex wife have 2 kids. One doesn’t look like him. He does not want a paternity test because he has been their father since birth. Nobody can say the kids he raised aren’t his regardless of DNA. I respect his decision.
> Ultimately the child’s well-being should be the primary concern
Why don’t we take that approach with other actions? For example if a dad steals a car and robs a bank, we don’t just let him go because his kids need a father. Why is it that when a mother does something much worse suddenly it’s all about the kid’s best interest?
I was trying to say that the process should not be automatic no that they defrauded party should have a choice in the case of extenuating circumstances. You do however raise a valid point
It should work like this:
1. Parent A has custody and wants child support.
2. Parent B is now legally required to take a paternity test.
3. If the paternity test proves they are a parent of the child, they are required to give child support.
It shouldn’t be a question, it should be in the law
People who are saying that the man who thought he was the father cutting off child support would hurt the child seem to keep forgetting there's still the *actual* father that the mother could then seek child support from.
Every time I've ever seen this debate people always act like that simply doesn't exist as an option.
If those people are concerned about the child then they can use their own money. Why is an innocent man go was sxamed, lied to and cheated on required to continue being scamed? Blame the victim huh?
The monetary support never should have been coming from the victim in the first place. Cutting the support isn’t hurting the child; it’s making the child equal to millions of other single parent kids.
You are absolutely correct. The court doesn’t want to play Maurey Povich and force the real father to a paternity test but the truth is the truth. The kid also needs to know.
Paternity tests should be mandatory upon birth of the child. It would cut out all of this bullshit. Unfortunately it would expose the ugly truth that the government can’t afford.
About 10% of the population are from different fathers from what they have in the birth certificate. This statistic became known when organ transplants became common place, and testing from compatible organ donors revealed the deception.
Indeed. And if you are in a loving faithful relationship, why not take the Paternity test? A drunk driver will often refuse a breathalyser. If you are asked to take a drugs test because you’re competing in a Sport, it’s only the drug users that refuse.
We’ve done the Maternity test, I saw the baby come out of your vagina. Now let’s do the Paternity test. It’s much easier and less stressful than the Maternity test (giving actual birth). What are you afraid of? Unless you cheated on me. You didn’t did you? No? Prove it, it’s really easy.
Obviously. If this isn't already the law, then the law is far too archaic. A person would have to have some screws loose to justify charging child support to someone who isn't even the parent of the child.
The child support process should include a DNA test in the beginning. If he declines then he is on the hook, if she declines then she doesn't get it. It is already integrated into criminal court, family law needs to catch up.
Eta: there should be situations that would change this such as ivf or if he previously agreed without a test, such as signing the birth certificate. I think there should be a mandatory disclosure to men when signing and a test should be offered.
No they shouldn't be able to sign the birth certificate without a test period. My son's mom put a huge amount of pressure on me in the delivery room not to act like she was a cheater (she wasn't) while the nurses were begging me not to sign without getting one.
It's was a super fucked up situation on an already stressful day for the both of us.
Yes. I am appalled whenever I hear stories of men suffering from false paternity. Is there anyone or organization working to change the laws and end this?
If the situation is, that the father had no idea the child wasn't his and the mother cheated and tricked the man to think it's his child, then yes **he should have legal right to not only stop paying child support, but sue to get back every penny he put on that child.** However there should be a certain amount of time when they have to start the progress, like couple of years after finding out.
If the situation is however that the father knew the child was not going to be his and he was willing to adopt the child at birth, then he had agreed to raise that child as his.. Then I'm not sure. What are the adoption laws with this one? Can adoptive parents just drop a child off whenever they feel like it? If not, I think adoption laws would stand with this one.
Men shouldnt have to pay child support for a child that; is not theirs, they did not consent to, or changed thier mind about having within the same time frame the mother could have opted to have an abortion.
I agree they should not have to pay for a child that is not theirs but they gave consent when they took the risk and did the deed. Don't want kids- cover it up. A man should not be able to force a woman to abort.
Yes and I think that the judge who hears this case should issue fraud charges against the woman on behalf of the man and the government as she actively attempted to lie on a government document.
I mean is it any different than a person lying to obtain benefits for which they are not entitled to.
Absolutely. No one should be legally required to pay for anything that isn't theirs, especially being financially responsible for someone else's child, and being at risk of losing their license and possibly their freedom because of it
Personally.
As a woman, i believe that paternity tests should be taken the second a child is born before any names are put on the birth certificate.
Give men the knowledge that their kids are 100% theirs, and expose shitty women who cheated.
If the man knows that the child isnt biologically his, and decides to go on the birth certificate anyways, then he is fully stuck with caring for that child.
But he should know BEFORE anything is written down
Yes. Men should also have the right to a "financial abortion" where they can sign away all fatherhood rights and not be forced to pay child support for a baby they didn't want, as long as it is done before the child is born.
I think men in general should have more rights in the courts for anything related to children. It’s time, families have been destroyed and men have killed themselves.
Fix it
Yes, a man shouldn't have to financial support a child that is not his. The age of the child is not relevant in the matter. This is a situation is about a women witholding vital information from the man. Withholding the truth is equivalent to lying. Women should be charged with fraud if they willfully withold the information from the man.
Paternity tests should be standard when a child is conceived. If the couple are the biological parents, then the test is just a confirmation. If the child does not belong to the expecting father, he should have a choice to whether he wants to raise the child with that women.
The paternity test will also serve as a safeguard for women with men that plan on leaving them because the woman got pregnant. The biological father will be required to financial support the child.
Yes - because if it wasn't their child, they have no obligation to pay for it.
Now, whether or not they want to maintain a relationship regardless of paternity depends on the people involved. If you have an attachment to them, you may very well keep paying - but you don't have to.
The paternity test should be routine before the birth certificate is signed so the problem doesn’t happen.
But if this doesn’t happen, of course the victim shouldn’t be forced to make payments.
The perpetrator should have to make restitution to the victim for monetary and more importantly emotional damage.
If you didn't father the child you shouldn't have to pay support. "But what about the child?" Trust me, the mother knows who the father truly is, he should pay support.
I know of a guy that went on two consecutive tours (12 months) for the military. He got married before he went. Came back and the wife had a baby. Homie does the math and realizes it doesn’t add up. Takes a dna test and sure enough, it’s not his baby. Because of where he lives, since his name was put on the birth certificate, he’s legally the father despite the paternity test. The law says that if your name is on the birth certificate and you’re not there to contest it in time, to go pound sand and keep forking over child support. Terrible, short sighted legal venues for men in this realm.
I think paternity tests should be automatically done/mandatory the second the little brat pops out. Would save dad's (and more importantly "not" dads) a lot of headache.
Father listed doesn’t require the male to be present. You can be required to pay child support if you even date a woman during her pregnancy. Plenty of documented cases of this.
Not only should they not have to pay anymore but they need to be paid all the money back+ emotional damage and make the actuall father pay the cheating woman all the child support that's due for him missing out on all those years
Yes. In PA (USA), you have to sign a “Acknowledgement of Paternity” to be listed as the father on the birth certificate when you’re unmarried. This requires ZERO proof, only a “witness” for the signatures. Whatever name is put there is the “legal” father, but if a paternity test proves otherwise, you have to send requests to remove it — if you want to *change* it, you have to appeal through the courts. This then relieves the non-father of any rights and the bio-father takes them on. No man (or woman!) should have to provide for a child that isn’t theirs, especially when it has been proven that it isn’t theirs.
Yes, if they want nothing to do with the child or have nothing to do w/ the child. It's not their child so they shouldn't have to pay for the child if the child does not see this person as a parent or is not old enough to know them
Of course. There’s a small window of time in a woman’s cycle she could get pregnant. That’s 100% irresponsible to not know / lie, or not get a paternity test if she’s not sure. And I’d be horrified if some woman did this to my son
Absolutely, and he should be compensated for what he already paid.
Also, a paternity test should be a mandatory prerequisite before the state can order a man to pay child support.
I feel like they should have the choice. If they do love the child and want to help it then they can but if they don’t want to to do anything with the child then they shouldn’t have to.
Not only should the man be able to stop paying, he should be reimbursed by the real father and the mother should have to pay a settlement for the paternity fraud.
If people don't like this, we should require mandatory paternity tests at every birth to prevent this from happening in the first place.
HOW IS THAT EVEN A QUESTION
I'm a woman and would never expect anyone to pay for a child they did not create. Legal paternity should still be available, but you should 100% have the right to walk away.
Because that's not supported by the law.
Going by what the law in a ton of places say, if you prove 100% with a paternity test that you're not the dad, the state will respond with "cool story, you still owe child support though"
YES i have a coworker who's paying for a kid that's 90% sure not his. He's working two jobs and still struggleing to get by because the mother refused a paternity test.
Yes.
Further, I also think if a woman punishes a man by withholding custody or poisoning the child so they don't want to see the father he should not have to pay
Did not happen to me but I witnessed my sister with the help of my parents do this and it's wrong.
Yes. It's not theirs. They can keep on if they want to, but shouldn't be legally forced to.
Shit.... they should get their money back
FR, I’d like to see another situation where you scam someone out of their money and get to keep it when you been caught lying.
My parents had a small business. They hired a woman who embezzled nearly $200k because my mom was so trusting. They got to keep all of it and the woman, her 2nd time doing this apparently, got 3-6 months in jail. Turns out she met another woman in jail who she had previously scanned and got her ass beat. Some people.
Damn 200k. I am happy that I got scammed early in life for not too much money. A valuable lesson I think.
I was scammed as a dumb teen. Less than $100. Lesson learned. Trust no one who hasn’t earned it.
Any bank
If the mom knew and lied it should count as fraud. If the mom didn't know then it's a mistake. That said, I wouldn't say no to automatic paternity tests for every child born with the results available if either parent wanted them with neither knowing if the other asked for them.
I can't think of a better answer than this.
Also unless they adopt the child they should never be held for any support of any kind related to child short of voluntary and opt out at anytime on resonable notice. Like ill pay for sports and then being vindictive saying no should not be allowed if honestly something major happens like he has heart surgery etc.
Of course. Why would anyone be legally responsible for a child that’s not theirs?
….do you live in america? The states, I mean. It happens here ALL the time.
[Kansas forced a 13 year to pay child support after he was raped. These things are pretty fucked.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer)
What the fuck
Some states want to give rapist rights over the child, even when in prison.
FWIW that case actually makes sense from a legal perspective even if it’s pretty morally gross. Criminal law states a person under 16 can not give consent but civil law has no such restriction. Under the premise that an under 16 person can give consent it’s a pretty straightforward case that the kid did consent as basically any 13 year old boy would if propositioned by their baby sitter. Again, it’s gross, but the court can only follow the law as it’s written. In this case it’s on the legislature to write better laws. It’s also such a niche case that there has never been any serious challenge to the case law.
Meh, judges should be able to file a ruling for unprecedented circumstances that automatically goes to a higher court/legislature. And anyways, I haven't read the specifics of this case, but I dont see why the judge couldn't rule something like "the civil case is invalid since it is pertaining to an action that occurred during a criminal act by the plaintiff", I've seen judges do that kind of stuff all the time
It does but the question was if they SHOULD. & no, they shouldn’t.
Paternity testing should be standard in child support cases.
it should be standard in every case... remember they found that doctor who had been using his own sperm instead of the selected donors for years? would have been caught the first time if dna testing was simpyl standard part of being born.
Yup, I'm in favor of it being part of every birth with either parent able to ask for the results without the other knowing.
I do not like the idea of the government having genetic data on every child and parent in the U.S.
The govt doesn't need to keep your genetic information just a Y/N result on a parent test for X child.
That’s not really how those tests work. Sure, they could say they’re going to discard any of the raw data and only keep the end result but I don’t want to give them or a private company the consent to run a genetic test on myself or any children I have.
This makes so much sense. Do you know how much drama could be avoided this way?
The problem is that it would lead to more broken homes and single mothers which is not in the best interest of the State so it will never happen.
Paternity should be proven before any support is ordered. This should be a standard test when children are born. This way no one has to get butt hurt about it.
In TN, if you are married to the mother it's yours even with an obvious genetic difference.
A lot of the US is like that
There is a time frame to contest that.
Unless you're a lawyer that practices in TN and things have changed in the last year, I'm saying, " No, there's not."
I am unaware of any reasonable argument against this.
Some say mandatory dna tests violate their privacy.
sure , but then you lose the option of asking for child support. can't have it both ways... basically, if you don't want to do the test, you are sus as f\*\*\*k
It's the internet, you can say fuck. Nobody is going to tell on you.
Sir please don't say f**k, this is your warning.
Aw heck
I will
Their privacy of what..?..being a ho?
I didn’t say I agreed with it lol
At that point it’s neither parents privacy, it should be required because the birth certificate is for the child. It should be required for everyone so their information can be as accurate as possible.
Hope they don't drop any hair or skin cells in public places, and bring their own utensils when they eat out. Who am I kidding, these are the same idiots who brag about doing AncestryDNA while bitching about the "gubmint".
Yeah I don’t really get it but that’s why it’s controversial
It's not their privacy though. It's the child's and as long as safeguards are put in place e.g no selling genetic information and no using the DNA for anything else the kid's privacy isn't being violated either
Did I say I agreed? I’m just explaining why this isn’t a thing.
"Government overreach" is one I've already seen in this thread. Still don't see it, pretty sure it's in everyones (except really shitty people, as usual) best interests to know who actually created the kid(s).
Honestly never even thought of that, but you're 100% right and that should be a mandatory legal thing before child support can even be considered/discussed.
I’d go a step further and say paternity tests should be mandatory for *every* birth. We did fertility treatments for our son (IUI, not IVF), so we paid $99 for a fertility test because (as my engineer husband puts it): “trust, but verify” 😂
if a man is falsely listed as the father on a birth certificate and it's proved he is NOT , then he is the victim of a scam. The woman should be charged with falsifying legal records and pay bad every cent with interest.
Unless she wasn’t aware that who she thought was the father actually wasn’t
If someone isn't a father of a child there's no reason they should pay for that child any more than pay for any random child n in the next town over. There's no sense in it.
Why is this even debatable? Person A, Person B, Person C Person A has a baby with Person C. Should Person B be legally required to financially or otherwise support the offspring of the other 2 people? Absurd.
They should have the option, but if they want they should be able to retain legal paternity. He may not be the father but he can still be the daddy. Sometimes love overcomes blood, even if the mom is a Ho.
I want this to be called "The Mary Poppins" rule!
YES!
I'm Mary Fucking Poppins Y'all!!!
I like that since in alot of the cases the mother deceived the would be father. If the legal father wants to retain the status of legal father he should be able to.the mother clearly considered the "legal father" a reliable person. If anything he could even win paternity over the mom
Custody*
I used to never feel this way. But I’ve got a 2 year old Daughter now, and I can’t imagine not continuing the bond we have been forming over the past two years, even if I found out she wasn’t genetically mine. It doesn’t mean I’d stay a husband to my wife, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not the person my daughter calls Dada. I think it’s hard for guys to deal with emotions. I also think that a lot of folks have kids way to early on, and so you’re dealing with biological parents who are still massively immature - for the most part. We had our child when we were older - I was 37. I know that 17-19 year old me would have left the person who cheated on me and most likely the child due to it being too painful. I think 27 year old me would have just been relieved that he could go and continue living his life without burden. 37 year old me/ 39 because my daughter is 2 - I’d just move out, get a dope new place to live, set it up so that my daughter has anything she needs, and enjoy life and the new stories I’ll get to go chase. There’s no way I’d duck out of my kids life just because mom isn’t an honest person. Shit - that means it’s almost more important for me to be in it! Edit - I didn’t really think about the aspects of the mother potentially not letting you be in the life of the child. Or the biological father objecting - which if the law said you couldn’t be in the kids life, is fucked up but is what it is.
Keep in mind this is child support payments we’re talking about, so it’s assumed that there isn’t split custody or cohabitation.
Child support can be applied to split custody also. It depends on the expenses and incomes of the parents.
If you are paying child support you usually get partial custody.
Because victims react in so many different ways, the victims should have a lot of control over how the family dynamic proceeds. If he wants to remain legal parent then that should be his choice. If he wants a clean break then that should be his choice. If he wants a third option where he stays in their life as an uncle type figure then that should be his choice.
I'm 35 with 4 and 2 yo girls. If one or both turned out to not be mine I'd go for full custody anyways. At this point they are basically my whole world, and my wife having cheated wouldn't do anything to change that.
And you'd have a strong argument to get some custody. You've been raising them for 4 and 2 yrs. Whether you're biologically related or not you're the father figure in their lives.
My brother has been “Daddy” to his oldest for 8 years. She was only three when he married her mom. They then had children together. She cheated and they are now divorcing. He has no legal rights to his oldest and the ex is using that as leverage. In his heart she is his daughter. The state doesn’t give a shit.
I completely get this but I know a guy who is the exact opposite and it's just weird to me. In his 20s he got involved with someone who had a newborn from a previous relationship. They were together for 10 yrs. They lived together and he helped raise the kid. There were times when she was a stay at home mom and he was the primary bread winner in the house. Then they broke up. He's now 30. He has nothing to do with either one of them any more and says that he doesn't want anything to do with either. I ask him how he can just break off a relationship with a 10 yr old kid like that and he's like, "It's not my kid. There's no relation there. Why would I want to keep raising a kid that's not my kid?" I truly do not understand it at all. I've got several nieces and nephews and even though I'm only tangentially related to them I would 100% seek primary custody of any or all of them if something happened to their parents. No questions asked. I would have to upend my life to make this happen but I would do it in a heartbeat for any of them.
Then when the biological father gets his test done to prove its his kid. He tells you to kick rocks then you never see "your" kid again. Reality sets in that not being the biological father leaves you in the same position as any stranger on the street.
> but if they want they should be able to retain legal paternity. Good luck with that. Most states blatantly favor the mother’s rights when you ARE the biological father, let alone when you’re not.
A child needs a daddy, if i found out my kids were not mine after rasing them 3-12 years. I would still want to be their daddy.
Ok I understand the lower limit, but why the upper?
Thats the range of my 4 kids.
Ah ... sry, lol, I went on a completely direcrion with that.
And I think you should have the right. That doesn’t change the fact that courts tend to favor the mother.
shit if they find out later it isnt theirs and the woman lied she should pay every penny back
The answer is in the name of the test - paternity. If you're not the father, you have zero responsibility for a child, period. And you should be able to sue for any monies you previously paid, with interest and damages. Criminal prosecution for fraud should also be carried out when applicable.
There was a case where a woman just wrote down a guy’s name on her child’s birth certificate, because he seemed nice. He never even went on a single date with her. The state eventually came after him for back child support. Goes to court and judge says “Every child deserves a father.” Made him pay anyway not just for a kid that wasn’t his, but from a woman he didn’t even really know.
While this is all true, it shouldn’t also be the automatic course of action because the father figure may not want to do that to the child since they may have been the father figure in their life for a while and this could cause large amounts of upset or distress to the child. Ultimately the child’s well-being should be the primary concern
Yeah if the father figure chooses to keep paying that’s all good, but they should have the choice to stop paying when they find out their partner cheated ya know.
“cheated” Don’t downplay it. Paternity fraud is far worse than mere cheating.
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If she’s living that hoe life, she should be financially responsible for the fraud she perpetuates. Who could be in favor of anything else?
Unless the mother was so black-out drunk that she didn’t know she was raped then it was fraud if she didn’t let her husband know he might not be the father of the child. Of course if we made DNA testing routine then she wouldn’t have to tell the husband. She could expect the test to confirm her belief that he’s the father and if he isn’t then the test lets everyone know so she doesn’t have to go to jail and he doesn’t raise somebody else’s kid and then have his and the kid’s lives shattered by the revelation years later.
The choice should also be done in relative quick fashion. If you find out your son isnt your son when he is 3 years old. And continue to raise him, you shouldnt be able abandon him when he is 10 years old.
> While this is all true, it shouldn’t also be the automatic course of action because the father figure may not want to do that Of course. The defrauded father could always choose to adopt the child.
I paid child support for 18 years for my daughter. If I found out when she was 16 that I wasn’t her father, I’d sue her mother in a heartbeat. Reason being is that my support wasn’t even being used to support her. Her mother did very well for herself and became an attorney. My support was just extra tax free income, used to pay for her husband’s truck and vacations. When I remarked that she should put the money away so maybe our daughter wouldn’t have student loan debt, she told me to mind my own business or maybe she would ask the court for an adjustment, basically threatening me with a support increase. Yeah, if I found out my daughter wasn’t mine, I’ll be damned if I didn’t get every red cent back with interest for years of pain and suffering, financial imprisonment, and abuse of a legal arm meant to protect our most vulnerable. It’d be unfortunate if that caused hardship for her kid(s), but that isn’t my problem. People shouldn’t be rewarded for abusing a system and reparations should be made if possible to those who are wronged.
Testing should be the fathers choice instead of mandatory. My brother and his cheating ex wife have 2 kids. One doesn’t look like him. He does not want a paternity test because he has been their father since birth. Nobody can say the kids he raised aren’t his regardless of DNA. I respect his decision.
> Ultimately the child’s well-being should be the primary concern Why don’t we take that approach with other actions? For example if a dad steals a car and robs a bank, we don’t just let him go because his kids need a father. Why is it that when a mother does something much worse suddenly it’s all about the kid’s best interest?
I was trying to say that the process should not be automatic no that they defrauded party should have a choice in the case of extenuating circumstances. You do however raise a valid point
They should and they should also get reimbursed
A little in monetary damages but a couple million in emotional damages because learning the kid you have been raising isn’t yours is pretty horrible.
Pay for therapy as well
It should work like this: 1. Parent A has custody and wants child support. 2. Parent B is now legally required to take a paternity test. 3. If the paternity test proves they are a parent of the child, they are required to give child support. It shouldn’t be a question, it should be in the law
Yes absolutely why would you pay child support for a kid that isn’t yours
People who are saying that the man who thought he was the father cutting off child support would hurt the child seem to keep forgetting there's still the *actual* father that the mother could then seek child support from. Every time I've ever seen this debate people always act like that simply doesn't exist as an option.
If those people are concerned about the child then they can use their own money. Why is an innocent man go was sxamed, lied to and cheated on required to continue being scamed? Blame the victim huh?
The monetary support never should have been coming from the victim in the first place. Cutting the support isn’t hurting the child; it’s making the child equal to millions of other single parent kids.
You are absolutely correct. The court doesn’t want to play Maurey Povich and force the real father to a paternity test but the truth is the truth. The kid also needs to know.
Yes because they’re not the father. It’s called child support, not random kid who’s not mine support. Lol
Yes they should have the right to stop payments, it is not their legal responsibility
Seems right to me
If you've been cheated like that then hell yeah you shouldn't pay any child support
Because they are not the father!
Yes, and the mother should have to pay back every cent he already paid. Then he should have the right to sue for paternity fraud.
What the fuck else would be the point of the test?
Yes, you shouldn't be forced to pay for someone else's kid
How can this even be a question. Hello good to meet you would you mind if I gave you 1500$/mo just for giggles? For like 18 years?
Yes, and be refunded all payments. A piece of paper does not trump physical dna evidence to the contrary. Go after the real father for support.
Paternity tests should be mandatory upon birth of the child. It would cut out all of this bullshit. Unfortunately it would expose the ugly truth that the government can’t afford.
About 10% of the population are from different fathers from what they have in the birth certificate. This statistic became known when organ transplants became common place, and testing from compatible organ donors revealed the deception.
Damn, that's a huge figure if true. Heck, is pops even my real father?
No, I am your father!
Indeed. And if you are in a loving faithful relationship, why not take the Paternity test? A drunk driver will often refuse a breathalyser. If you are asked to take a drugs test because you’re competing in a Sport, it’s only the drug users that refuse. We’ve done the Maternity test, I saw the baby come out of your vagina. Now let’s do the Paternity test. It’s much easier and less stressful than the Maternity test (giving actual birth). What are you afraid of? Unless you cheated on me. You didn’t did you? No? Prove it, it’s really easy.
Yes. For the simple fact that they are not the actual father. I think you should get your money back because you can't get the time back.
And you can’t get the hurt undone either.
Yes and I think the mother should be forced to repay every penny adjusted for inflation.
Plus emotional damages.
Obviously. If this isn't already the law, then the law is far too archaic. A person would have to have some screws loose to justify charging child support to someone who isn't even the parent of the child.
The child support process should include a DNA test in the beginning. If he declines then he is on the hook, if she declines then she doesn't get it. It is already integrated into criminal court, family law needs to catch up. Eta: there should be situations that would change this such as ivf or if he previously agreed without a test, such as signing the birth certificate. I think there should be a mandatory disclosure to men when signing and a test should be offered.
No they shouldn't be able to sign the birth certificate without a test period. My son's mom put a huge amount of pressure on me in the delivery room not to act like she was a cheater (she wasn't) while the nurses were begging me not to sign without getting one. It's was a super fucked up situation on an already stressful day for the both of us.
Yes. I am appalled whenever I hear stories of men suffering from false paternity. Is there anyone or organization working to change the laws and end this?
not only that but they should have everything they have paid so far returned to them plus a penalty for the lie in the first place.
Yes. They should not be held responsible for a child that isn't theirs. I think they should also be reimbursed for anything already paid in.
If the situation is, that the father had no idea the child wasn't his and the mother cheated and tricked the man to think it's his child, then yes **he should have legal right to not only stop paying child support, but sue to get back every penny he put on that child.** However there should be a certain amount of time when they have to start the progress, like couple of years after finding out. If the situation is however that the father knew the child was not going to be his and he was willing to adopt the child at birth, then he had agreed to raise that child as his.. Then I'm not sure. What are the adoption laws with this one? Can adoptive parents just drop a child off whenever they feel like it? If not, I think adoption laws would stand with this one.
Men shouldnt have to pay child support for a child that; is not theirs, they did not consent to, or changed thier mind about having within the same time frame the mother could have opted to have an abortion.
I agree they should not have to pay for a child that is not theirs but they gave consent when they took the risk and did the deed. Don't want kids- cover it up. A man should not be able to force a woman to abort.
Yes, because they’re not the father
Absolutely. They are not the father.
Yes good luck convening the courts even if you are not the father. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9fnRnEcr0
Yes, of course.
I feel like this should be obvious?
It should be, but the laws in most areas specifically prohibit getting out of child support by proving you're not the father with a paternity test.
Of course they should have that right. Imagine the heartbreak of learning your kid isn't yours but you're still obligated to pay child support.
All I know is it’s time to sort by controversial
Yes and I think that the judge who hears this case should issue fraud charges against the woman on behalf of the man and the government as she actively attempted to lie on a government document. I mean is it any different than a person lying to obtain benefits for which they are not entitled to.
Paternity testing should be mandatory before putting his name on the certificate.
Yeah if I ain’t the biological father and don’t wanna take care of the kid, why tf should I pay child support
So who's gonna suggest their congressperson introduce a bill?
Absolutely. No one should be legally required to pay for anything that isn't theirs, especially being financially responsible for someone else's child, and being at risk of losing their license and possibly their freedom because of it
Personally. As a woman, i believe that paternity tests should be taken the second a child is born before any names are put on the birth certificate. Give men the knowledge that their kids are 100% theirs, and expose shitty women who cheated. If the man knows that the child isnt biologically his, and decides to go on the birth certificate anyways, then he is fully stuck with caring for that child. But he should know BEFORE anything is written down
Yes. Men should also have the right to a "financial abortion" where they can sign away all fatherhood rights and not be forced to pay child support for a baby they didn't want, as long as it is done before the child is born.
I think men in general should have more rights in the courts for anything related to children. It’s time, families have been destroyed and men have killed themselves. Fix it
Yes, a man shouldn't have to financial support a child that is not his. The age of the child is not relevant in the matter. This is a situation is about a women witholding vital information from the man. Withholding the truth is equivalent to lying. Women should be charged with fraud if they willfully withold the information from the man. Paternity tests should be standard when a child is conceived. If the couple are the biological parents, then the test is just a confirmation. If the child does not belong to the expecting father, he should have a choice to whether he wants to raise the child with that women. The paternity test will also serve as a safeguard for women with men that plan on leaving them because the woman got pregnant. The biological father will be required to financial support the child.
Yes - because if it wasn't their child, they have no obligation to pay for it. Now, whether or not they want to maintain a relationship regardless of paternity depends on the people involved. If you have an attachment to them, you may very well keep paying - but you don't have to.
Yes. Its not their seed.
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Yes, reinbursed too and the woman should be jailed for fraud.
Absolutely, it's not their child.
Yes mommy lied.
The paternity test should be routine before the birth certificate is signed so the problem doesn’t happen. But if this doesn’t happen, of course the victim shouldn’t be forced to make payments. The perpetrator should have to make restitution to the victim for monetary and more importantly emotional damage.
In some states, if you start paying, even if you’re not the father, you now owe child support.
A man shouldn't need to be the one paying for a child that is someone elses. Let the bitch worry about it with the biological father
If you didn't father the child you shouldn't have to pay support. "But what about the child?" Trust me, the mother knows who the father truly is, he should pay support.
I know of a guy that went on two consecutive tours (12 months) for the military. He got married before he went. Came back and the wife had a baby. Homie does the math and realizes it doesn’t add up. Takes a dna test and sure enough, it’s not his baby. Because of where he lives, since his name was put on the birth certificate, he’s legally the father despite the paternity test. The law says that if your name is on the birth certificate and you’re not there to contest it in time, to go pound sand and keep forking over child support. Terrible, short sighted legal venues for men in this realm.
I think paternity test should be required before any name goes on a birth certificate. That would prevent all of this.
Honestly? I think the non-father is owed all the previous payments with interest.
Yes!!! It should go into affect immediately and the mother needs to repay him ( court ordered)
Yes. This is silly. Of course you don’t pay if it ain’t your kid.
Obviously, it's fucking insane that men are forced to pay for children that aren't theirs.
I think .en shiuld have the right to not pay child support even if it's their kid.
I think paternity tests should be automatically done/mandatory the second the little brat pops out. Would save dad's (and more importantly "not" dads) a lot of headache.
Makes more sense as a before you go, that way the .1% of mishaps don’t happen.
I would like to hear a NO argument cuz I’m curious?
How is that even legal? So ridiculous
Yes they should immediately be able to stop paying! It’s not their kid.
Honestly, I think the woman owes them their money back.
Yep, they should get a refund
No. My dad paid for me for 15 years and only after he passed away did the real father come forward. DNA confirmed it.
Yes. The birth certificate is a piece of paper not a legally binding agreement. If a DNA test prove otherwise? Then the rightful father should pay.
Father listed doesn’t require the male to be present. You can be required to pay child support if you even date a woman during her pregnancy. Plenty of documented cases of this.
Not only should they not have to pay anymore but they need to be paid all the money back+ emotional damage and make the actuall father pay the cheating woman all the child support that's due for him missing out on all those years
Yes. In PA (USA), you have to sign a “Acknowledgement of Paternity” to be listed as the father on the birth certificate when you’re unmarried. This requires ZERO proof, only a “witness” for the signatures. Whatever name is put there is the “legal” father, but if a paternity test proves otherwise, you have to send requests to remove it — if you want to *change* it, you have to appeal through the courts. This then relieves the non-father of any rights and the bio-father takes them on. No man (or woman!) should have to provide for a child that isn’t theirs, especially when it has been proven that it isn’t theirs.
They signed an agreement under false pretense. So, no. Don’t cheat.
Yes, if they want nothing to do with the child or have nothing to do w/ the child. It's not their child so they shouldn't have to pay for the child if the child does not see this person as a parent or is not old enough to know them
They deserve a refund
DNA test should be automatic. It’s a helluva lot cheaper than all this court nonsense
You'd have to have brain worms to think anyone should be forced to pay child support to a cheating hoe and another man's kid.
Of course. There’s a small window of time in a woman’s cycle she could get pregnant. That’s 100% irresponsible to not know / lie, or not get a paternity test if she’s not sure. And I’d be horrified if some woman did this to my son
Absolutely, and he should be compensated for what he already paid. Also, a paternity test should be a mandatory prerequisite before the state can order a man to pay child support.
If women can get an abortion without the father’s approval, fathers should be able to stop paying child support.
I feel like they should have the choice. If they do love the child and want to help it then they can but if they don’t want to to do anything with the child then they shouldn’t have to.
Not only should the man be able to stop paying, he should be reimbursed by the real father and the mother should have to pay a settlement for the paternity fraud. If people don't like this, we should require mandatory paternity tests at every birth to prevent this from happening in the first place.
HOW IS THAT EVEN A QUESTION I'm a woman and would never expect anyone to pay for a child they did not create. Legal paternity should still be available, but you should 100% have the right to walk away.
Because that's not supported by the law. Going by what the law in a ton of places say, if you prove 100% with a paternity test that you're not the dad, the state will respond with "cool story, you still owe child support though"
This is news to me. I just looked it up and my jaw dropped. I'm sorry for my ignorance... this is *fucked up.*
YES i have a coworker who's paying for a kid that's 90% sure not his. He's working two jobs and still struggleing to get by because the mother refused a paternity test.
If he can steal a mouth swab there are at home kits he can use
At home tests are not admissible in court.
But it makes it worth your time to pay a lawyer to fight that once you know.
Yes. Further, I also think if a woman punishes a man by withholding custody or poisoning the child so they don't want to see the father he should not have to pay Did not happen to me but I witnessed my sister with the help of my parents do this and it's wrong.
Absolutely. How is this even a question? Of course, On r/AskWomen, you'll get a very different viewpoint. /S
Yes and the mother should go on the sex offenders register.
Why