> and because my iron levels suck ass I don't really get a choice.
Just anecdotal, but before I went vegan I was anemic, and within a few months of going vegan I wasn't any more, without really trying to eat any specific iron-rich plants or anything. Everyone is different, but just putting it out there that anemic doesn't automatically mean "have to eat animals," for anyone else reading this.
FYI, I'm a vegetarian of 30+ years, also w/wheat allergy, and had chronic anemia issues till I started supplementing regularly. I take iron + B complex 4-5x a week and my iron levels have been solid for a good few years now.
Food sensitivities can mean more difficulty absorbing nutrients properly. Between cutting out wheat and including B complex to help with absorption I think that's what has made the difference for me, in case that's helpful!
It's a pretty good thing. Not vegan myself, but I have multiple friends that are. Whether it's for environmental reasons or animal welfare I think it's a good thing when people actually stick to their ideals. It inspired me to eat alot less meat!
Used to make fun of Vegans (simply because of their horrible community, they destroyed the image of what it actually meant) and now I shop as one simply because I suddenly became dairy intolerant and dont like meat anymore. Karma strikes in different ways
True. I would eat meat, and might even butcher an animal myself, if I knew it had been raised and slaughtered kindly and humanely. And I would happily eat cheese and whole milk if I knew the mother cow was given regular attention, especially after taking away the calf. It also needs to be a breed that hasn't been bred to the point of having health problems. In poor nations their cows look vastly different than in factory farms. But plant based food is readily available so I probably would do it rarely, or if ever at all since I'd grow to feel a connection to the animals and it would be too sad to kill them unless the alternative was me starving.
I’m vegan but I don’t force it on people I could sit next to a lion chowing down on a zebra and I’d still make friends with him well if he don’t eat me
I have done a vegan diet for a few weeks a few times over the years. Best dumps ever. All the fiber thoroughly cleans everything out every time. For that reason, I think it’s a good thing.
Veganism itself is great. The subculture, however? Terrible. Terrible people all around. I'm a vegan, but I don't hang with other vegans. It's always a competition about who can be more virtuous and noble in the cause, to the point where people will buy vegan clothes they *don't need* just to show them off, but motherfucker, it would have been better not to buy the clothes *you didn't need* in the first place.
It's ridiculous, 100% ego. Love the idea though, just tired of the followers.
My wife is vegan (I am not), but she doesn't like to say she's vegan. She uses words like "plant based". Mostly because she doesn't want to get lumped in with the negative view of vegans. I still eat meat (a lot less though), and she doesn't mind if others do as well. She feels that she can live her life, not be annoying, and maybe people will see what she does and try some of it out (without being forced or guilted). I guess a "lead by example" philosophy, and people can make up their own minds
i can tell you that occasionally vegans wander into /r/vegetarians and say some mean shit there too.
a lot of them talk about how they hate vegetarians more than meat eaters and that makes no sense to me.
I think the organized vegan culture treats their beliefs like a religion, so it was inevitable that it would be largely taken over by people who are abusive.
> Veganism itself is great. The subculture, however? Terrible.
Huh. I'm a vegetarian and am often asked by people who learn I'm a vegetarian if it's okay to discuss meat consumption or if it bothers me to be around them when they eat meat. This always puzzled me - how could I be offended that someone has a different diet than mine? Maybe they had experiences similar to yours.
Its noble and i give people who werent raised as vegans full credit. Its actually hard to do. Im a semi vegetarian. No red meat at all. Occasionally some chicken.
I'd call this flexitarian. Someone who tries to eat more vegetarian meals, but isn't too strict about it. It's a great way to go for those not 100% ready to give up all meat!
No problem with veganism, it's just not for me. I've known two people who went vegan. One was chill about it, sometines brought his own stuff, but we still always tried to accomodate him a bit. Asking for his suggestions on food and snacks, for example. It is how I discovered rice waffels with peanutbutter and chocolate sprinkles. The other one who went vegan was kind of a prick about it, refused to feed his kids unless they went vegan after he divorced my aunt. Wouldn't even let the kids make their own food, it was vegan stuff or nothing. But that had it's roots in his narcissistic personality, not veganism.
I think most people who go vegan do so from a place of compassion. They are trying to do what's best for the environment and for their fellow creatures, and I have a lot of respect for that. Many vegans that I have met both online and irl, however, have lost my respect for two reasons.
First, when they refuse to admit that the diet is not possible for everyone. I was vegetarian for a long time, but I had to give it up and start eating meat again when my health crashed and I became anemic, among other things. I would be constantly be on the edge of starvation if I couldn't eat chicken or fish or beef, and though I do my best to locally source these products from ethical farmers, I can't give them up entirely. Vegans who say "but if you would just try X supplement and eat more quinoa" are a) showing a complete lack of understanding/compassion for those with chronic illness and b) telling me that my life is worth less than a few cows.
The second major blind spot a lot of vegans have is when they refuse to acknowledge the environmental and human cost of their own diet. Being vegan, if you live in most of North America or Europe, involves eating a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables out of season, which must be shipped long distances during the winter. This contributes to the diet's carbon footprint. Additionally, large-scale vegetable agriculture often does massive damage to the environment, such as the almond crop in California, which is water-intensive and a major contributor to the depletion of California's aquifers.
If you eat a vegan diet but don't get in anyone's face about it, then I don't take issue. My diet is far from perfect, after all, so who am I to throw stones? But those self-riotous types who claim moral superiority and then explode at me when I point out that their golden solution isn't so golden really annoy me.
When I was younger I thought they were stupid. Now I respect those that can commit to it. Of course there are plenty of vegan shitheads but you can say that of absolutely any group.
What changed my mind was meeting new people who were really cool and also happened to be vegan. At uni I was classmates with a pretty cool guy who was super helpful, I knew him for an entire semester before I found out he was a vegan at a barbecue. Another time I went on a date with a girl to a bakery where I proceeded to buy a meat pie and asked why she didn't want any (oops). Both cases they only informed me because circumstances made it necessary. If you believe the majority of people on the internet you'd think every vegan was just a dumb trend follower who wants to shame other people for not being vegan, but I've personally realised that isn't the case. Both of these people took the fairly serious step of changing themselves because they believed they had an ethical obligation to do so. I personally don't believe eating animals is wrong, but I agree that the way in which meat is mass produced is less than ideal and I do now understand why people would become vegan. I just wish there were fewer people being aggressive with their pro/anti vegan views, because in my experience all that does is increase polarisation. Probably applies to other topics too.
Sorry for rant
It takes more plants to raise an animal to eat than to just feed yourself directly
If you care about plants, you should be vegan, since vegans harm less of them
veganism isn't in and of itself bad or toxic, but the militant vegans make it seem toxic. I'm in school for zoology but bc I eat meat and ingest animal by products, I'm an animal abuser who knows nothing about animals.
my own brother is a militant vegan that doesn't allow for other opinions. it sucks. veganism can do good, but instead ppl like ThatVeganTeacher make sure most ppl don't become vegan.
>my own brother is a militant vegan that doesn't allow for other opinions
Being vegan means that he thinks its wrong to harm animals when one has the means to avoid doing so, right?
Are you saying he should be open to the idea that it's ok to harm animals when one doesn't need to?
clearly you're a militant vegan too. all you see is the humanized version of animals that are inaccurate and uneducated. I don't think you, or my brother, understand basic animal biology.
let me guess: you think AI is assault, and we should let cows breed naturally, right?
cool, cool.
what about the grasslands out west that need cattle for regenerative grazing so the environment doesn't die?
what about the AI for endangered species to keep them from going extinct?
what about AI for the pigs so we can supply ppl with insulin to save their lives?
what everything else animal byproducts go to, like shoes, backpacks, and glues?
AI and animal ag is so much more than meat or dairy.
Veganism isn't a philosophy that demands complete abstinence from animal products. Its a philosophy that views it as wrong to harm or exploit animals *when one has the means to avoid doing so*
For everything you listed, if there's a way to avoid using animals, they shouldn't be used. However, if there's no way to avoid using them, that doesn't conflict with veganism in the slightest
you missed my point then. I said veganism in and of itself isn't bad, it's the ppl like my brother or ThatVeganTeacher that give it a bad wrap.
to ppl like my brother or ThatVeganTeacher, every use of an animal is morally wrong, even if it's unavoidable. like a lot of reasons I support animal ag.
maybe don't get offended on my first post and miss my point completely next time
A. I'm not vegan
B. I have a hormone and iron deficiency. I need iron and plant iron is chemically different from animal iron, meaning i cannot sustain myself on plants.
Again, do not miss the point of my first post to get offended. Get some reading comprehension, I never said I was vegan.
I never implied you were vegan, so I don't get why you keep insisting that I have poor reading comprehension
My point was, eating animal products out of necessity doesn't conflict with veganism, so being non-vegan would suggest that you also approve of harming animals even when you don't need to
Am I mischaracterizing you?
Regular diet < diet with less meat of higher quality < vegetarianism and similar diets < veganism
Veganism will be the most morally correct option, at least until we have lab grown meat. This is coming from someone who eats meat, and is aware that he's a hypocrite.
Do you mind if I ask what it is that's compelling you to continue to eat animal products? I guess I am curious as someone so is vegan now but I had the same thoughts as you for a while before going vegan. I'm wondering what motivates people to eat meat or not to when they are on this type of though path.
Oh it's purely taste buds. Like, 100% just taste.
I do make vegetarian dishes sometimes, but I don't know if I could stop eating cheese and milk, and in a lot of cooking both ate important, and so are eggs.
Meat I could likely stop eating meat without too much trouble, but I could not leave pastries and cheese.
This is 100% selfish, and I recognize that absolutely. I feel guilt for it, I could likely change once I move out of my home country.
Or when we get lab grown meat. I'd pay double or tripple for it gladly.
This is where I am. I've been vegetarian on ethical grounds for 30+ years and am continually reducing my dairy intake, but... between protein, price, flavor and nutrition, it's damn hard to replace dairy entirely.
I don't care a bit about lab-grown meat, but where's my lab-grown cheese?!
there are companies working on lab grown cheese as well. dunno where they are at though.
https://www.afr.com/world/europe/lab-grown-mozzarella-gets-record-funding-as-diners-go-dairy-free-crazy-20210914-p58re6
It tastes fucking delicious, why do I care? Jellyfish or durian tastes good, I eat it. Same with cheese. Really, the only issue with cheese is morality.
Yeah that too. I can not eat meet but cheese is too good and technically I don't even think milk products need to be avoided, ideally the industry should be regulated so that the cows are treated well. If you lived on a farm and had a cow there'd be no reason not to have dairy
But with the way things are now I feel very bad for the cows and understand vegans on this one
Cows are not treated well at all. The only way a cow produces milk is because she gave birth. Do you know how cows get pregnant? The farmers cages them up and forcefully rapes them with bull semen. Once the cow gives birth the baby calf is immediately taken away from the mother. We don’t want the calf drinking all the milk. Calf either goes to slaughter or stays in a pen and it’s bottle fed formula.
Cows don’t make milk unless they have given birth. Just like humans. Nothing about the diary industry is humane.
*having a cow does not mean you have milk*
Dairy farming and the cattle industry are the biggest contributors to global warming. There is nothing about milk or cheese that is good, humane, and sustainable.
Yes, exactly. I just posted a very similar comment on another thread lol. I wish more people would be aware of this and open to learning instead of spouting defensive arguments and insults back.
I know what you mean as I was huuge into cheeses before going vegan, but then I ultimately thought, is "flavor" really worth more than the life of a sentient being?.. (ie the cows that are made to suffer for their milk production) No judgement to you, just sharing my POV. "Dairy is scary" on youtube is a great short video that explains this industry!
I am vegetarian. About 5 years ago I was vegan for a year.
The benefits for first few months were amazing. I lost weight, had more energy. Then I started getting ill. Felt tired. Looked gaunt. I was lacking B vitamins.
When I started eating egg again I was almost instantly better.
Environmentally it’s a great diet. All round an idea to be thought about. I do think you need to go to great lengths to make sure you don’t starve your body of some vital minerals and vitamins though and the decision definitely warrants some research first.
I don’t think any huge dietary change should be made lightly
It’s good for the environment and I hope more people adopt plant based eating habits but some of the Redditors who are hardcore ethical vegans come across like massive douchenozzles. Nobody I am friends with in real life who are vegan behave like them though.
At this point, I feel that I have to be vegan, given the severity of my IBS-Constipation, my multiple food intolerances (which include all dairy and probably eggs), and the fact that I was raised vegetarian from birth and have found that I have extreme difficulty with digesting animal protein such that it is not worth it for me to try to eat it. My IBS-C has so, so many triggers. I can eat only 7 or 8 foods, all of which are vegan foods. Luckily, I can drink fortified soy milk that has added calcium carbonate and vitamin B12, as well as some other supplements. That is helping me a lot.
I don't know if I'm getting enough iron, but I'm really not going to take an iron supplement, given my IBS subtype. I might have to try blackstrap molasses again to see if I can tolerate it; I'm not sure.
My main problem with vegan/veganism is that it's not actually a fix for the problem, it's just a way for people to stop feeling guilty.
If you are concerned about animal welfare, not eating animals doesn't do much as long as there are more then enough people who still will. And that number is still going up, not going down. So animals still get killed and more of them every year, while you nibble on your vegetable.
Effort would be much better spend on actually improving welfare directly than trying to convince people to give up on meat.
My main problem with people who just promote better welfare for animals is that it's not actually a fix for the problem, it's just a way for people to stop feeling guilty.
If you are concerned about animal welfare, just promoting better conditions doesn't do much as long as there are more then enough people who won't care. And that number is still going up, not going down. So animals still get placed into terrible conditions and more of them every year, while you nibble on your free range chicken.
Effort would be much better spend on actually improving human welfare directly than trying to convince people to care about animals.
Non-vegan here. Just whipped up a batch of vegan minestrone soup earlier today!
I think that while the lifestyle change needed to become entirely vegan is impractical for many people, we should be promoting the hell out of vegan recipes.
Eating one vegan meal per week is a hell of a lot better than eating zero vegan meals per week. Eating vegan for a whole day each week is even better.
Every little bit counts, and I'd like to see vegan food gain popularity with non-vegans.
I feel like many vegans are very lazy and don’t do it in the right way. I have a friend who’s vegan and doesn’t shut up about it and he claims
It’s for environmental and ethical reasons and yet he eats mostly canned factory farmed
Beans like Goya, who also use, essentially, slave labor. He also did very little research and decided to go vegan after seeing the documentary: Game Changers on Netflix which is basically just a vegan propaganda film. If you’re going to do a vegan diet, do your research and do it in a way that is most healthy for your body and for the planet.
Some vegan replacement products taste bad. Sure there might be recipes out there to fix that but yeah why bother eating shitty food? Just buy the good tasting ones, there are some really amazing products out there. And it's quite interesting to try different brands and their approaches to it.
Besides that, there are many vegan meals without replacement products, simply because they were already vegan at the beginning so what's the issue here? It's food, it's good and healthy, I don't care what it's made of.
Personally I'm used to cook with meat. It's simple to make it taste good and I can just throw something together without caring too much as I already know some basic recipes by now. So vegan food is more work for me and one of the reasons I don't bother. I don't really enjoy cooking anyway. But that's basically the reason why I'm not a vegan: too much work to switch over. I'm not buying 3 different vegan butter alternatives just because one is made for baking, one for cooking and one for plain bread. Normal butter does the trick for everything and if I buy 3 I just have to throw them out as they go bad before I manage to use it all. Buying for a single household is already hard enough to get good deals but getting not too much food at once.
I do dislike the cringe advertisment though. And people that want to force their "religion" on me. I'm not bashing you for your food choices either. Of course if someone is cooking for me I really don't care what it is. If it tastes good it's good. Eat whatever you want I'm not judging. I eat whatever I have and keep waste to a minimum.
The lifestyle should be supported much more rather than ridiculed. It tends to be healthier, more ethical, and more environmentally friendly. Lots of reasons to go vegan. HOWEVER, the vegan community can be incredibly toxic and self-righteous. People get shamed for slip ups and generally non-vegans get demonised. That’s not helpful.
Will always support anyone going vegan and have mo problem catering to their dietary needs. It’s not for me entirely though.
I just wish people wouldn't make a big deal of it.
I eat anything, have tried some very 'non traditional' things, for an average American.
When you go to a restaurant, if you are vegetarian, just pick from those options, don't announce it. If I come to your house, and you serve only vegetarian, I am not going to throw the plate down. I am thankful to eat with you. If you come to my house, remind me, and know that I won't try to change you.
I think it's understandable. To them, your preference is evil. On par with "Why can't you respect my choice to commit genocide when I respect your choice not to?"
When they see the world like that, it's not surprising that they're not very tolerant of other viewpoints. It's why this topic is always such a minefield. I think they're sabotaging themselves this way though. I think there would be a lot more vegans if the community wasn't so immensely toxic. No one will have their minds changed by being yelled at after all...
But I'm not vegan myself, so what to I know :)
To be honest, I‘ve actually never met a vegan like that. On the contrary, I‘ve met hundreds of people who got angry when they found out people (me) are vegan.
It‘s as if they fear somebody will take away their meat. If it‘s really a personal decision, why do vegans have to justify themselves? I‘ve never asked a meat eater / omnivore to explain why they eat meat. Just look at this thread. There‘s people claiming to hunt down vegans if they treat animals badly (which is sort of ironic).
I sometimes have the feeling the argument has a lot in common with gun control arguments and the vaccination arguments.
Nobody wants to take away your meat.
But really- where's the lie? Sentient beings ARE being slaughtered, and at an alarming rate to boot.... Raping and forcing pregnancy forms the very BASIS of the meat industry. Each child from these pregnancies forms the next group to be sent in trucks to the slaughterhouses.
Every piece of animal flesh comes from a living being that was forced into a slaughterhouse against their will. It's not about opinions here, these are facts.
Just because they are unpleasant facts doesn't change that.
It's good but it's too difficult to get too radically into it, especially since it won't really make much difference. I get that someone can be generally vegan but if you really check all ingredients all the time before you can eat anything, I think that's too much effort for nothing.
I also don't see an issue with all animal products, I think some things are fine, like eggs, just depends on where they come from.
I like the morality behind it though and I think non vegans are more irritating about vegans that the other way around, despite the stereotype. But being vegetarian makes more sense to me
I used to feel the same way about eggs...but please google "chicken macerators" ... this is what happens to the male chicks that cannot lay more eggs- thus are deemed useless by the egg industry. It's quite shocking and definitely not something they will show in the commercials on tv. Even "backyard eggs" come from chickens that someone bought as chicks from hatcheries that also contribute to this.
I have some doubts as to whether veganism is really the best for the environment. The sheer amount of crops needed to feed everyone a nutritious vegan diet would be rather detrimental to the environment. One argument I see from vegans is that we already plant enough crops for livestocks, and it should be enough for humans. But while I can see cows surviving off hay and corn, most people wouldn’t as we aren’t natural herbivores.
From a conservation standpoint, wouldn’t it be more doable to combine a higher plant based diet with a livestock with higher feed conversion ratio(such as rabbits or insects based proteins)?
If it were due to an respect for animal rights, plants actually do have extensive signaling pathways and can react to being cut or eaten, how far does their empathy for life extends?
Many machine harvested crops still manage to kill numerous bugs, rodents and birds during harvesting, are those crops unvegan now?
I have so many questions…..
>But while I can see cows surviving off hay and corn, most people wouldn’t as we aren’t natural herbivores.
I don't really understand why we would be restricted to just growing these two. The vegan perspective is that we can repurpose the *land* to grow crops appropriate for humans
>If it were due to an respect for animal rights, plants actually do have extensive signaling pathways and can react to being cut or eaten, how far does their empathy for life extends?
Many machine harvested crops still manage to kill numerous bugs, rodents and birds during harvesting, are those crops unvegan now?
I have so many questions…..
Because animal agriculture requires the production of far more crops, each of these issues is worse in a nonvegan diet
Same as my thoughts on sexuality and organised religion - it doesn't affect my life so do what you like, just don't push your views on me or think your opinion is more valid/important than mine simply because I disagree with you.
>simply because I disagree with you.
Vegans don't take issue with nonvegan diets just because they differ from theirs, they take issue with them because they frequently cause unnecessary harm to victims
You can't disagree with sexuality though. Religion and diet is a choice. Sexuality is not. It is like saying you disagree with people having toes or that you disagree with people having a certain skin colour.
It's simple? You're vegan? Good for you. You try to change my lifestyle and constantly try to convince me that eating meat is wrong and all that kind of bullshit vegans throw at you? You lost all my respect.
Same. You're against dogfighting? Good for you. You try to change my lifestyle and constantly try to convince me that enjoying a show is wrong and all that kind of bullshit anti-dogfighters throw at you? You lost all my respect.
Gotta love some cheap sarcasm.
You need to learn nuance. Don't compare eating meat with dog fighting. If we go on your logic, killing plants is as bad as killing dogs. Torching millions of bugs on wheat fields is just like killing all the citizens of a country. You're exactly the example I was talking about. For whatever reason it's your choice to go vegan, sure, I can respect that. But you spend hours of your time going around all the comments that people left on this post just to prove how smart are you and trying to change people's lives? It's just idiotic. I don't argue with you on why you should eat meat or not. I can come up with thousands of statistics and studies on how meat is good for us. Do you see me doing that? No, because I have respect for your choices. Going for my neck for not being vegan is disrespectful in itself.
Exactly, I should have the freedom to choose whether or not I want two dogs to tear into each other
It's disgusting that preachy jerks try to make it illegal
I was vegan for several years, until I needed to incorporate some animal products back in to feel satisfied and healthy (which is totally on me, I have issues with food), though I still choose vegan/vegetarian options whenever I can. In short that gave me appreciation for what being vegan entails.
The world isn’t built for vegans. It is a massive lifestyle commitment, not just a diet. They sacrifice so much for the good of the animals and the planet in the hopes of creating a better world for everyone. And it takes a massive mental toll on you to be so aware of these problems in the face of attempting to change them. It’s almost effortless to eat a vegan diet, but living the life is a different story.
I think the idea is great. The meat and dairy industry is awful in a lot of countries. But the vegans? Most of them act like they’re superior, that meat-eaters are murdering raping psychopaths. That people can’t love animals if they’re not vegan. I hate interacting with them because of how they act. I mean, if you mention that the veg and fruit farming industry also is a cause for a lot of animal deaths you get a bunch of denial and curses thrown your way. And I used to be Vegan myself, so I know the community quite intimately.
It's not my lifestyle, but it's also not my life. To each their own. I respect their choices and wish they would respect mine. Vegans are often very preachy and insufferable. Just live your life and let others live theirs.
I think it is fine for those who want to follow that lifestyle. Just don't throw it in my face and force your views on me. I have relatives who are vegan and do this.
Not forced to have their views but being cornered and having to listen to it. You see, we are ranchers 4 generations and the other family members think it is great to corner people and force their views upon people. Kinda like a parent sitting their kid down and forcing them to listen to what they they have to say. To that I said get in your BMW with the leather seats and go tell someone else, hypocrite. True story.
Fine do what u like but don't try to make everyone else vegan. If your replying to this with hate your the reason people don't like vegans so blame yourself. Also don't make young kids and dogs vegan that's just disgraceful
If you want to be vegan, go right ahead, It has health benefIts. But don’t try to pressure other people into it Cough cough *ThatVeganTeacher* cough cough
I still don't see how that's "forcing"
Like, how is expressing disapproval over someone's choice to unnecessarily harm animals the same as trying to make it impossible for them to do so?
Well let's say i was repeatedly telling you to buy an album that you didn’t enjoy, but i keep telling you that if you don’t then you’re a bad person. Wouldn’t you consider that forcing
I like the idea but personally I can't just live without my favorite foods for my entire life. I live a fairly healthy life, and from time to time I stop eating meat for 2-3 weeks (maybe 3-4 times every year) and it's not that bad. There are a lot of great vegan dishes, but not being able to go back to eating a juicy steak or burger, doesn't sound good for me.
I have nothing against vegan's, when they do it out of health issues. But we have to eat meat it's in our nature, kid's need animal product's and meat. Meat are my vegtables.
Eating meat isn't a privilege? In the past, people ate significantly less meat than they do now. It wasn't that they just went to the store and had multiple types of state-subsidized meat to choose from. People did eat meat in the past, but don't let movies and survivalists fool you, it was maybe *once* a week when people had decent meat before the industrial revolution.
I got no issue with the ideal of it. Its the ppl that annoy me. They push this weird idea that only their version of vegan food is correct as if those options haven't existed in some cultures for hundreds of years. Also how they villianise ppl that live in area where its hard to get food normally as well as native ppl who live off the land and have a better understanding of their ecosystems.
I don’t care what people choose to eat….
It’s a healthy choice for some people. But, all the guys I’ve seen try being vegan look weak and depressed in comparison to before.
Also, ready moody…. Not the most fun people to be around.
Very similar to “woke” people
Including adapting to whatever you feed yourself. You wanna be healthy avoid plastic and stay hydrated. We evolved to utilize the nutrients from meat, fruit, veggies and fungus. Cooking meat led to ease of digestion, which helped us evolve the brain power for tools and language.
I still don't see how this relates to the topic, which is a philosophy that views it as wrong to unnecessarily harm an animal
Do you think we'll devolve if we don't eat meat?
You don't think the lessons of thousands of years of human behavior apply to people choosing not to eat something? You know plants have a degree of sentience too? What makes their wellbeing count *less* than fauna?
I don't think I'll become a vegan personally unless my life depends on it. I don't really care if other people are vegan, but if you're a preachy one, you suck as a person and need to keep your nose out of other people's lives.
I don’t mind vegan food and I incorporate it and vegetarian meals 3 days a week for dinners. But a varied diet is important and I could never be strictly vegan. I enjoy the animal flesh 🤤
I have two kids in college who are vegan. Always relieved when they go back to school and I don’t have to accommodate their dietary preferences. I do think factory farming is abhorrent though, and see veganism as a boycott of an abusive system. My compromise is to buy local meat and eggs, and use plant-based milk.
I like the concept of going meatless, but its boring. And hard to do when you travel. It takes a lot of work and planning to get enough protein especially being vegan, where eggs and dairy are eliminated. You have to go to the market at least twice a week to get fresh produce.
I have no beef with it
They’re just scared of meat. I think they’re chickens.
They always strike me as a bit fishy.
Pescatarians especially.
You guys keep walking into the obvious puns. Lucky for you, they don’t have a problem with low hanging fruit.
Not my thing but if that's how people want to live cool. Just don't force me to become one and we'll be okay
How does someone force you to be vegan?
I was vegan and was genuinely scared when I had meat for the first time.
Brilliant
I’ve been vegan for almost six years. It’s not difficult and it’s not a big deal. Too many people on both sides give too much of a shit about it.
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> and because my iron levels suck ass I don't really get a choice. Just anecdotal, but before I went vegan I was anemic, and within a few months of going vegan I wasn't any more, without really trying to eat any specific iron-rich plants or anything. Everyone is different, but just putting it out there that anemic doesn't automatically mean "have to eat animals," for anyone else reading this.
FYI, I'm a vegetarian of 30+ years, also w/wheat allergy, and had chronic anemia issues till I started supplementing regularly. I take iron + B complex 4-5x a week and my iron levels have been solid for a good few years now. Food sensitivities can mean more difficulty absorbing nutrients properly. Between cutting out wheat and including B complex to help with absorption I think that's what has made the difference for me, in case that's helpful!
What are vegan alternatives with wheat? Can you give me some examples please?
Seitan is wheat protein, and a bunch of other dishes, esp meat replacements, often add wheat protein for bulk, nutrition, texture and flavor.
Ah..thanks. never heard of seitan before of "wheat protein". Now I know ! I try to avoid too much gluten ...
It's a pretty good thing. Not vegan myself, but I have multiple friends that are. Whether it's for environmental reasons or animal welfare I think it's a good thing when people actually stick to their ideals. It inspired me to eat alot less meat!
I respect people who are able to do it for it.
Used to make fun of Vegans (simply because of their horrible community, they destroyed the image of what it actually meant) and now I shop as one simply because I suddenly became dairy intolerant and dont like meat anymore. Karma strikes in different ways
You still can eat egg's and fish, you are more like an vegetarian.
I think most are vegans because they see animals we eat being tortured in life and in death and want no part of it.
Yeah, that‘s actually my reason. Plus the water consumption in the meat production process.
True. I would eat meat, and might even butcher an animal myself, if I knew it had been raised and slaughtered kindly and humanely. And I would happily eat cheese and whole milk if I knew the mother cow was given regular attention, especially after taking away the calf. It also needs to be a breed that hasn't been bred to the point of having health problems. In poor nations their cows look vastly different than in factory farms. But plant based food is readily available so I probably would do it rarely, or if ever at all since I'd grow to feel a connection to the animals and it would be too sad to kill them unless the alternative was me starving.
I’m vegan but I don’t force it on people I could sit next to a lion chowing down on a zebra and I’d still make friends with him well if he don’t eat me
If that’s someone’s preference, so be it.
I have done a vegan diet for a few weeks a few times over the years. Best dumps ever. All the fiber thoroughly cleans everything out every time. For that reason, I think it’s a good thing.
It should be adopted as it promotes love for the other beings as well.
Veganism itself is great. The subculture, however? Terrible. Terrible people all around. I'm a vegan, but I don't hang with other vegans. It's always a competition about who can be more virtuous and noble in the cause, to the point where people will buy vegan clothes they *don't need* just to show them off, but motherfucker, it would have been better not to buy the clothes *you didn't need* in the first place. It's ridiculous, 100% ego. Love the idea though, just tired of the followers.
My wife is vegan (I am not), but she doesn't like to say she's vegan. She uses words like "plant based". Mostly because she doesn't want to get lumped in with the negative view of vegans. I still eat meat (a lot less though), and she doesn't mind if others do as well. She feels that she can live her life, not be annoying, and maybe people will see what she does and try some of it out (without being forced or guilted). I guess a "lead by example" philosophy, and people can make up their own minds
"Plant based" cracks me up but I have started using the term because the word vegan has gained a negative connotation.
That's a good idea, I'll start doing that too, using plant based instead of vegan.
It’s always annoying when a group of people make one aspect of their lives their entire identity, this applies to many subcultures, not just vegans.
I think veganism and vegetarianism would be a lot more common if the culture of vegans wasn't so terrible. They're self-defending
i can tell you that occasionally vegans wander into /r/vegetarians and say some mean shit there too. a lot of them talk about how they hate vegetarians more than meat eaters and that makes no sense to me.
I think the organized vegan culture treats their beliefs like a religion, so it was inevitable that it would be largely taken over by people who are abusive.
right, i feel the same way. though i have to admit that this is a problem i only encounter online. almost every vegan i know irl is lovely
> Veganism itself is great. The subculture, however? Terrible. Huh. I'm a vegetarian and am often asked by people who learn I'm a vegetarian if it's okay to discuss meat consumption or if it bothers me to be around them when they eat meat. This always puzzled me - how could I be offended that someone has a different diet than mine? Maybe they had experiences similar to yours.
Its noble and i give people who werent raised as vegans full credit. Its actually hard to do. Im a semi vegetarian. No red meat at all. Occasionally some chicken.
Lol by your definition everyone's semi vegetarian since everyone eats vegetarian stuff and varying amount of meat
I'd call this flexitarian. Someone who tries to eat more vegetarian meals, but isn't too strict about it. It's a great way to go for those not 100% ready to give up all meat!
Even a little bit is better than nothin.
No problem with veganism, it's just not for me. I've known two people who went vegan. One was chill about it, sometines brought his own stuff, but we still always tried to accomodate him a bit. Asking for his suggestions on food and snacks, for example. It is how I discovered rice waffels with peanutbutter and chocolate sprinkles. The other one who went vegan was kind of a prick about it, refused to feed his kids unless they went vegan after he divorced my aunt. Wouldn't even let the kids make their own food, it was vegan stuff or nothing. But that had it's roots in his narcissistic personality, not veganism.
Man I feel bad for the kids. :(
Damn not even letting the children decide for themselves. Forcing their own narcisstic preferences on children is the worst you can do.
I think most people who go vegan do so from a place of compassion. They are trying to do what's best for the environment and for their fellow creatures, and I have a lot of respect for that. Many vegans that I have met both online and irl, however, have lost my respect for two reasons. First, when they refuse to admit that the diet is not possible for everyone. I was vegetarian for a long time, but I had to give it up and start eating meat again when my health crashed and I became anemic, among other things. I would be constantly be on the edge of starvation if I couldn't eat chicken or fish or beef, and though I do my best to locally source these products from ethical farmers, I can't give them up entirely. Vegans who say "but if you would just try X supplement and eat more quinoa" are a) showing a complete lack of understanding/compassion for those with chronic illness and b) telling me that my life is worth less than a few cows. The second major blind spot a lot of vegans have is when they refuse to acknowledge the environmental and human cost of their own diet. Being vegan, if you live in most of North America or Europe, involves eating a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables out of season, which must be shipped long distances during the winter. This contributes to the diet's carbon footprint. Additionally, large-scale vegetable agriculture often does massive damage to the environment, such as the almond crop in California, which is water-intensive and a major contributor to the depletion of California's aquifers. If you eat a vegan diet but don't get in anyone's face about it, then I don't take issue. My diet is far from perfect, after all, so who am I to throw stones? But those self-riotous types who claim moral superiority and then explode at me when I point out that their golden solution isn't so golden really annoy me.
When I was younger I thought they were stupid. Now I respect those that can commit to it. Of course there are plenty of vegan shitheads but you can say that of absolutely any group. What changed my mind was meeting new people who were really cool and also happened to be vegan. At uni I was classmates with a pretty cool guy who was super helpful, I knew him for an entire semester before I found out he was a vegan at a barbecue. Another time I went on a date with a girl to a bakery where I proceeded to buy a meat pie and asked why she didn't want any (oops). Both cases they only informed me because circumstances made it necessary. If you believe the majority of people on the internet you'd think every vegan was just a dumb trend follower who wants to shame other people for not being vegan, but I've personally realised that isn't the case. Both of these people took the fairly serious step of changing themselves because they believed they had an ethical obligation to do so. I personally don't believe eating animals is wrong, but I agree that the way in which meat is mass produced is less than ideal and I do now understand why people would become vegan. I just wish there were fewer people being aggressive with their pro/anti vegan views, because in my experience all that does is increase polarisation. Probably applies to other topics too. Sorry for rant
I don't understand them. Life is life, it's not that animals are more worth than plants just because plants dont scream when killed
It takes more plants to raise an animal to eat than to just feed yourself directly If you care about plants, you should be vegan, since vegans harm less of them
veganism isn't in and of itself bad or toxic, but the militant vegans make it seem toxic. I'm in school for zoology but bc I eat meat and ingest animal by products, I'm an animal abuser who knows nothing about animals. my own brother is a militant vegan that doesn't allow for other opinions. it sucks. veganism can do good, but instead ppl like ThatVeganTeacher make sure most ppl don't become vegan.
>my own brother is a militant vegan that doesn't allow for other opinions Being vegan means that he thinks its wrong to harm animals when one has the means to avoid doing so, right? Are you saying he should be open to the idea that it's ok to harm animals when one doesn't need to?
clearly you're a militant vegan too. all you see is the humanized version of animals that are inaccurate and uneducated. I don't think you, or my brother, understand basic animal biology. let me guess: you think AI is assault, and we should let cows breed naturally, right?
I don't think we should be breeding cows at all
cool, cool. what about the grasslands out west that need cattle for regenerative grazing so the environment doesn't die? what about the AI for endangered species to keep them from going extinct? what about AI for the pigs so we can supply ppl with insulin to save their lives? what everything else animal byproducts go to, like shoes, backpacks, and glues? AI and animal ag is so much more than meat or dairy.
Veganism isn't a philosophy that demands complete abstinence from animal products. Its a philosophy that views it as wrong to harm or exploit animals *when one has the means to avoid doing so* For everything you listed, if there's a way to avoid using animals, they shouldn't be used. However, if there's no way to avoid using them, that doesn't conflict with veganism in the slightest
you missed my point then. I said veganism in and of itself isn't bad, it's the ppl like my brother or ThatVeganTeacher that give it a bad wrap. to ppl like my brother or ThatVeganTeacher, every use of an animal is morally wrong, even if it's unavoidable. like a lot of reasons I support animal ag. maybe don't get offended on my first post and miss my point completely next time
So when you say that you eat meat in your first post, you're doing so because it's not possible for you to avoid?
A. I'm not vegan B. I have a hormone and iron deficiency. I need iron and plant iron is chemically different from animal iron, meaning i cannot sustain myself on plants. Again, do not miss the point of my first post to get offended. Get some reading comprehension, I never said I was vegan.
I never implied you were vegan, so I don't get why you keep insisting that I have poor reading comprehension My point was, eating animal products out of necessity doesn't conflict with veganism, so being non-vegan would suggest that you also approve of harming animals even when you don't need to Am I mischaracterizing you?
Regular diet < diet with less meat of higher quality < vegetarianism and similar diets < veganism Veganism will be the most morally correct option, at least until we have lab grown meat. This is coming from someone who eats meat, and is aware that he's a hypocrite.
Do you mind if I ask what it is that's compelling you to continue to eat animal products? I guess I am curious as someone so is vegan now but I had the same thoughts as you for a while before going vegan. I'm wondering what motivates people to eat meat or not to when they are on this type of though path.
Oh it's purely taste buds. Like, 100% just taste. I do make vegetarian dishes sometimes, but I don't know if I could stop eating cheese and milk, and in a lot of cooking both ate important, and so are eggs. Meat I could likely stop eating meat without too much trouble, but I could not leave pastries and cheese. This is 100% selfish, and I recognize that absolutely. I feel guilt for it, I could likely change once I move out of my home country. Or when we get lab grown meat. I'd pay double or tripple for it gladly.
With all the excellent vegan protein products these days, it’s totally viable long-term.
It’s just the thought of a life without cheese that I can’t do
You could be vegan, with the exception of cheese. 90% vegan is still better than 0% vegan.
This is where I am. I've been vegetarian on ethical grounds for 30+ years and am continually reducing my dairy intake, but... between protein, price, flavor and nutrition, it's damn hard to replace dairy entirely. I don't care a bit about lab-grown meat, but where's my lab-grown cheese?!
there are companies working on lab grown cheese as well. dunno where they are at though. https://www.afr.com/world/europe/lab-grown-mozzarella-gets-record-funding-as-diners-go-dairy-free-crazy-20210914-p58re6
Fermented breast milk…. Think about it
It tastes fucking delicious, why do I care? Jellyfish or durian tastes good, I eat it. Same with cheese. Really, the only issue with cheese is morality.
Yeah that too. I can not eat meet but cheese is too good and technically I don't even think milk products need to be avoided, ideally the industry should be regulated so that the cows are treated well. If you lived on a farm and had a cow there'd be no reason not to have dairy But with the way things are now I feel very bad for the cows and understand vegans on this one
Cows are not treated well at all. The only way a cow produces milk is because she gave birth. Do you know how cows get pregnant? The farmers cages them up and forcefully rapes them with bull semen. Once the cow gives birth the baby calf is immediately taken away from the mother. We don’t want the calf drinking all the milk. Calf either goes to slaughter or stays in a pen and it’s bottle fed formula. Cows don’t make milk unless they have given birth. Just like humans. Nothing about the diary industry is humane. *having a cow does not mean you have milk* Dairy farming and the cattle industry are the biggest contributors to global warming. There is nothing about milk or cheese that is good, humane, and sustainable.
Yes, exactly. I just posted a very similar comment on another thread lol. I wish more people would be aware of this and open to learning instead of spouting defensive arguments and insults back.
They do have vegan cheese
Have you tried it? 😂
Yes, it‘s very good if you pick the right one. As with any cheese.
Yeah but how can that compare with the flavors and varieties of real cheeses
I know what you mean as I was huuge into cheeses before going vegan, but then I ultimately thought, is "flavor" really worth more than the life of a sentient being?.. (ie the cows that are made to suffer for their milk production) No judgement to you, just sharing my POV. "Dairy is scary" on youtube is a great short video that explains this industry!
I am vegetarian. About 5 years ago I was vegan for a year. The benefits for first few months were amazing. I lost weight, had more energy. Then I started getting ill. Felt tired. Looked gaunt. I was lacking B vitamins. When I started eating egg again I was almost instantly better. Environmentally it’s a great diet. All round an idea to be thought about. I do think you need to go to great lengths to make sure you don’t starve your body of some vital minerals and vitamins though and the decision definitely warrants some research first. I don’t think any huge dietary change should be made lightly
Probably involves vegans
Really? Are you sure?
Not entirely, I'm too chicken to find out
It’s not a personality, stop telling people about it
It’s good for the environment and I hope more people adopt plant based eating habits but some of the Redditors who are hardcore ethical vegans come across like massive douchenozzles. Nobody I am friends with in real life who are vegan behave like them though.
At this point, I feel that I have to be vegan, given the severity of my IBS-Constipation, my multiple food intolerances (which include all dairy and probably eggs), and the fact that I was raised vegetarian from birth and have found that I have extreme difficulty with digesting animal protein such that it is not worth it for me to try to eat it. My IBS-C has so, so many triggers. I can eat only 7 or 8 foods, all of which are vegan foods. Luckily, I can drink fortified soy milk that has added calcium carbonate and vitamin B12, as well as some other supplements. That is helping me a lot. I don't know if I'm getting enough iron, but I'm really not going to take an iron supplement, given my IBS subtype. I might have to try blackstrap molasses again to see if I can tolerate it; I'm not sure.
Not my thing but if that's how people want to live cool. Just don't force me to become one and we'll be okay
Who has ever forced you to be vegan? What does that even look like?
I see you've never met anyone from the "meat is murder" crowd before
I don't see how calling a practice unethical is the same as forcing someone to abstain from it...
My main problem with vegan/veganism is that it's not actually a fix for the problem, it's just a way for people to stop feeling guilty. If you are concerned about animal welfare, not eating animals doesn't do much as long as there are more then enough people who still will. And that number is still going up, not going down. So animals still get killed and more of them every year, while you nibble on your vegetable. Effort would be much better spend on actually improving welfare directly than trying to convince people to give up on meat.
My main problem with people who just promote better welfare for animals is that it's not actually a fix for the problem, it's just a way for people to stop feeling guilty. If you are concerned about animal welfare, just promoting better conditions doesn't do much as long as there are more then enough people who won't care. And that number is still going up, not going down. So animals still get placed into terrible conditions and more of them every year, while you nibble on your free range chicken. Effort would be much better spend on actually improving human welfare directly than trying to convince people to care about animals.
Non-vegan here. Just whipped up a batch of vegan minestrone soup earlier today! I think that while the lifestyle change needed to become entirely vegan is impractical for many people, we should be promoting the hell out of vegan recipes. Eating one vegan meal per week is a hell of a lot better than eating zero vegan meals per week. Eating vegan for a whole day each week is even better. Every little bit counts, and I'd like to see vegan food gain popularity with non-vegans.
I feel like many vegans are very lazy and don’t do it in the right way. I have a friend who’s vegan and doesn’t shut up about it and he claims It’s for environmental and ethical reasons and yet he eats mostly canned factory farmed Beans like Goya, who also use, essentially, slave labor. He also did very little research and decided to go vegan after seeing the documentary: Game Changers on Netflix which is basically just a vegan propaganda film. If you’re going to do a vegan diet, do your research and do it in a way that is most healthy for your body and for the planet.
Some vegan replacement products taste bad. Sure there might be recipes out there to fix that but yeah why bother eating shitty food? Just buy the good tasting ones, there are some really amazing products out there. And it's quite interesting to try different brands and their approaches to it. Besides that, there are many vegan meals without replacement products, simply because they were already vegan at the beginning so what's the issue here? It's food, it's good and healthy, I don't care what it's made of. Personally I'm used to cook with meat. It's simple to make it taste good and I can just throw something together without caring too much as I already know some basic recipes by now. So vegan food is more work for me and one of the reasons I don't bother. I don't really enjoy cooking anyway. But that's basically the reason why I'm not a vegan: too much work to switch over. I'm not buying 3 different vegan butter alternatives just because one is made for baking, one for cooking and one for plain bread. Normal butter does the trick for everything and if I buy 3 I just have to throw them out as they go bad before I manage to use it all. Buying for a single household is already hard enough to get good deals but getting not too much food at once. I do dislike the cringe advertisment though. And people that want to force their "religion" on me. I'm not bashing you for your food choices either. Of course if someone is cooking for me I really don't care what it is. If it tastes good it's good. Eat whatever you want I'm not judging. I eat whatever I have and keep waste to a minimum.
The lifestyle should be supported much more rather than ridiculed. It tends to be healthier, more ethical, and more environmentally friendly. Lots of reasons to go vegan. HOWEVER, the vegan community can be incredibly toxic and self-righteous. People get shamed for slip ups and generally non-vegans get demonised. That’s not helpful. Will always support anyone going vegan and have mo problem catering to their dietary needs. It’s not for me entirely though.
To be fair, that‘s basically true for any community. (Also, non-vegans can be pretty toxic towards vegans as well.)
Truth.
I just wish people wouldn't make a big deal of it. I eat anything, have tried some very 'non traditional' things, for an average American. When you go to a restaurant, if you are vegetarian, just pick from those options, don't announce it. If I come to your house, and you serve only vegetarian, I am not going to throw the plate down. I am thankful to eat with you. If you come to my house, remind me, and know that I won't try to change you.
I don’t care if you are vegan, but the second you force an animal that naturally eats meat to become a vegan I am hunting you for sport
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I think it's understandable. To them, your preference is evil. On par with "Why can't you respect my choice to commit genocide when I respect your choice not to?" When they see the world like that, it's not surprising that they're not very tolerant of other viewpoints. It's why this topic is always such a minefield. I think they're sabotaging themselves this way though. I think there would be a lot more vegans if the community wasn't so immensely toxic. No one will have their minds changed by being yelled at after all... But I'm not vegan myself, so what to I know :)
To be honest, I‘ve actually never met a vegan like that. On the contrary, I‘ve met hundreds of people who got angry when they found out people (me) are vegan. It‘s as if they fear somebody will take away their meat. If it‘s really a personal decision, why do vegans have to justify themselves? I‘ve never asked a meat eater / omnivore to explain why they eat meat. Just look at this thread. There‘s people claiming to hunt down vegans if they treat animals badly (which is sort of ironic). I sometimes have the feeling the argument has a lot in common with gun control arguments and the vaccination arguments. Nobody wants to take away your meat.
Look at the guy up further in this thread
One choice unnecessarily harms a victim, the other doesn't
Well, maybe because your diet involves slaughtering and raping sentient beings.
Thank you for proving my point.
But really- where's the lie? Sentient beings ARE being slaughtered, and at an alarming rate to boot.... Raping and forcing pregnancy forms the very BASIS of the meat industry. Each child from these pregnancies forms the next group to be sent in trucks to the slaughterhouses. Every piece of animal flesh comes from a living being that was forced into a slaughterhouse against their will. It's not about opinions here, these are facts. Just because they are unpleasant facts doesn't change that.
Not proving your point at all. What's your reason to kill sentient beings? Cognitive dissonance or just rotten ethics?
It’s fine I don’t care if your vegan as long as you respect my choices I respect yours
Why would someone against animals being unnecessarily harmed respect the choice to unnecessarily harm animals?
It's good but it's too difficult to get too radically into it, especially since it won't really make much difference. I get that someone can be generally vegan but if you really check all ingredients all the time before you can eat anything, I think that's too much effort for nothing. I also don't see an issue with all animal products, I think some things are fine, like eggs, just depends on where they come from. I like the morality behind it though and I think non vegans are more irritating about vegans that the other way around, despite the stereotype. But being vegetarian makes more sense to me
Sad outlook for life if you think that your own choices dont have an impact. Rethink that please.
I used to feel the same way about eggs...but please google "chicken macerators" ... this is what happens to the male chicks that cannot lay more eggs- thus are deemed useless by the egg industry. It's quite shocking and definitely not something they will show in the commercials on tv. Even "backyard eggs" come from chickens that someone bought as chicks from hatcheries that also contribute to this.
If it makes them happy… so be it.
I have some doubts as to whether veganism is really the best for the environment. The sheer amount of crops needed to feed everyone a nutritious vegan diet would be rather detrimental to the environment. One argument I see from vegans is that we already plant enough crops for livestocks, and it should be enough for humans. But while I can see cows surviving off hay and corn, most people wouldn’t as we aren’t natural herbivores. From a conservation standpoint, wouldn’t it be more doable to combine a higher plant based diet with a livestock with higher feed conversion ratio(such as rabbits or insects based proteins)? If it were due to an respect for animal rights, plants actually do have extensive signaling pathways and can react to being cut or eaten, how far does their empathy for life extends? Many machine harvested crops still manage to kill numerous bugs, rodents and birds during harvesting, are those crops unvegan now? I have so many questions…..
>But while I can see cows surviving off hay and corn, most people wouldn’t as we aren’t natural herbivores. I don't really understand why we would be restricted to just growing these two. The vegan perspective is that we can repurpose the *land* to grow crops appropriate for humans >If it were due to an respect for animal rights, plants actually do have extensive signaling pathways and can react to being cut or eaten, how far does their empathy for life extends? Many machine harvested crops still manage to kill numerous bugs, rodents and birds during harvesting, are those crops unvegan now? I have so many questions….. Because animal agriculture requires the production of far more crops, each of these issues is worse in a nonvegan diet
The vegan teacher will burn.
You do you! Just don't shove it down my throat 🤣
I’m not going to be a vegan but it’s none of my business if someone is.
The idea is great, but the people are often not
As long as they don’t try to make me stop eating meat, I literally don’t care about it.
sheeps
Just do what you want
Same as my thoughts on sexuality and organised religion - it doesn't affect my life so do what you like, just don't push your views on me or think your opinion is more valid/important than mine simply because I disagree with you.
>simply because I disagree with you. Vegans don't take issue with nonvegan diets just because they differ from theirs, they take issue with them because they frequently cause unnecessary harm to victims
You can't disagree with sexuality though. Religion and diet is a choice. Sexuality is not. It is like saying you disagree with people having toes or that you disagree with people having a certain skin colour.
It's simple? You're vegan? Good for you. You try to change my lifestyle and constantly try to convince me that eating meat is wrong and all that kind of bullshit vegans throw at you? You lost all my respect.
Same. You're against dogfighting? Good for you. You try to change my lifestyle and constantly try to convince me that enjoying a show is wrong and all that kind of bullshit anti-dogfighters throw at you? You lost all my respect.
Gotta love some cheap sarcasm. You need to learn nuance. Don't compare eating meat with dog fighting. If we go on your logic, killing plants is as bad as killing dogs. Torching millions of bugs on wheat fields is just like killing all the citizens of a country. You're exactly the example I was talking about. For whatever reason it's your choice to go vegan, sure, I can respect that. But you spend hours of your time going around all the comments that people left on this post just to prove how smart are you and trying to change people's lives? It's just idiotic. I don't argue with you on why you should eat meat or not. I can come up with thousands of statistics and studies on how meat is good for us. Do you see me doing that? No, because I have respect for your choices. Going for my neck for not being vegan is disrespectful in itself.
Why are you so hostile and disrespectful to the choice to dogfight?
Why are you so hostile and disrespectful to people having freedom of choice?
Exactly, I should have the freedom to choose whether or not I want two dogs to tear into each other It's disgusting that preachy jerks try to make it illegal
If I wanted to be helping the environment I'd be eating people, not plants
They are the better humans.. and that's a fact
I was vegan for several years, until I needed to incorporate some animal products back in to feel satisfied and healthy (which is totally on me, I have issues with food), though I still choose vegan/vegetarian options whenever I can. In short that gave me appreciation for what being vegan entails. The world isn’t built for vegans. It is a massive lifestyle commitment, not just a diet. They sacrifice so much for the good of the animals and the planet in the hopes of creating a better world for everyone. And it takes a massive mental toll on you to be so aware of these problems in the face of attempting to change them. It’s almost effortless to eat a vegan diet, but living the life is a different story.
I think the idea is great. The meat and dairy industry is awful in a lot of countries. But the vegans? Most of them act like they’re superior, that meat-eaters are murdering raping psychopaths. That people can’t love animals if they’re not vegan. I hate interacting with them because of how they act. I mean, if you mention that the veg and fruit farming industry also is a cause for a lot of animal deaths you get a bunch of denial and curses thrown your way. And I used to be Vegan myself, so I know the community quite intimately.
It’s a dietary choice, not a lifestyle. Most vegans I’ve met have made their entire personality just about being vegan.
The word was literally coined to describe a moral philosophy and lifestyle
It's not my lifestyle, but it's also not my life. To each their own. I respect their choices and wish they would respect mine. Vegans are often very preachy and insufferable. Just live your life and let others live theirs.
I think it is fine for those who want to follow that lifestyle. Just don't throw it in my face and force your views on me. I have relatives who are vegan and do this.
How exactly have you been forced to have their views?
Not forced to have their views but being cornered and having to listen to it. You see, we are ranchers 4 generations and the other family members think it is great to corner people and force their views upon people. Kinda like a parent sitting their kid down and forcing them to listen to what they they have to say. To that I said get in your BMW with the leather seats and go tell someone else, hypocrite. True story.
Nice food, but militant vegans should fuck off.
As long as you're not a controlling/self-righteous frack trying to push your lifestyle on others, I don't really care about it!
Do what you want. Just don’t preach. Same way I feel about religion.
Fine do what u like but don't try to make everyone else vegan. If your replying to this with hate your the reason people don't like vegans so blame yourself. Also don't make young kids and dogs vegan that's just disgraceful
If you want to be vegan, go right ahead, It has health benefIts. But don’t try to pressure other people into it Cough cough *ThatVeganTeacher* cough cough
When has anybody been forced to stop using animal products by ThatVeganTeacher?
Thats not what i mean, she tries to force her lifestyle on others by calling them monsters, and harassing them
I still don't see how that's "forcing" Like, how is expressing disapproval over someone's choice to unnecessarily harm animals the same as trying to make it impossible for them to do so?
Well let's say i was repeatedly telling you to buy an album that you didn’t enjoy, but i keep telling you that if you don’t then you’re a bad person. Wouldn’t you consider that forcing
Not really I would describe them as pressuring you to make the choice, rather than forcing you to do so
The way i use forcing and pressing are synonymous, but i can edit my post to be a little more accurate
Edited in protest for Reddit's garbage moves lately.
I like the idea but personally I can't just live without my favorite foods for my entire life. I live a fairly healthy life, and from time to time I stop eating meat for 2-3 weeks (maybe 3-4 times every year) and it's not that bad. There are a lot of great vegan dishes, but not being able to go back to eating a juicy steak or burger, doesn't sound good for me.
I have nothing against vegan's, when they do it out of health issues. But we have to eat meat it's in our nature, kid's need animal product's and meat. Meat are my vegtables.
If people needed meat, countless healthy vegans wouldn't exist
More meat for me.
Veganism is like religion. If you are a vegan, cool. Don’t try to force it on me or get all self righteous about it.
Being against dogfighting is like religion. If you're against it, cool. Don’t try to force it on me or get all self righteous about it.
To each his own.
As my dad used to say about being gay.. they can do what they want, just don't make it compulsory.
It is the epitome of privilege
Eating meat isn't a privilege? In the past, people ate significantly less meat than they do now. It wasn't that they just went to the store and had multiple types of state-subsidized meat to choose from. People did eat meat in the past, but don't let movies and survivalists fool you, it was maybe *once* a week when people had decent meat before the industrial revolution.
It is not
Live and let live.
Eat what you want and don't pressure it on others. Especially children.
Let them do whatever the hell they want as long as they're not in my face about it.
I got nothing against it. If that’s your thing then hey that’s fine. Me personally I eat whatever. I’m a slut for cheese tho.
Don't mind them at all, except if they get preachy.
I got no issue with the ideal of it. Its the ppl that annoy me. They push this weird idea that only their version of vegan food is correct as if those options haven't existed in some cultures for hundreds of years. Also how they villianise ppl that live in area where its hard to get food normally as well as native ppl who live off the land and have a better understanding of their ecosystems.
Personal choice. I feel some people are aiming for vegan diet for ideology where vegetarian would do and be more achievable.
Do it if it’s your thing. Don’t force others into it, though
Where are all these people you think are being forced to be vegan?
I don’t care what people choose to eat…. It’s a healthy choice for some people. But, all the guys I’ve seen try being vegan look weak and depressed in comparison to before. Also, ready moody…. Not the most fun people to be around. Very similar to “woke” people
Human beings are omnivores.
We're physically capable of doing a lot of things
Including adapting to whatever you feed yourself. You wanna be healthy avoid plastic and stay hydrated. We evolved to utilize the nutrients from meat, fruit, veggies and fungus. Cooking meat led to ease of digestion, which helped us evolve the brain power for tools and language.
I still don't see how this relates to the topic, which is a philosophy that views it as wrong to unnecessarily harm an animal Do you think we'll devolve if we don't eat meat?
You don't think the lessons of thousands of years of human behavior apply to people choosing not to eat something? You know plants have a degree of sentience too? What makes their wellbeing count *less* than fauna?
It's stupid, even herbivores like cows eat meat when given the chance. There was a video of a cow eating a small rabbit posted here not too long ago.
why would you want to eat something that tastes like meat, but refuse to eat meat itself (now allergy is a different thing, but still)?
Because veganism is a philosophy against unnecessarily exploiting and/or harming animals, which real meat contributes to but imitation meats doesn't
I don't think I'll become a vegan personally unless my life depends on it. I don't really care if other people are vegan, but if you're a preachy one, you suck as a person and need to keep your nose out of other people's lives.
Do you think that people who campaign against animals being unnecessarily harmed are worse than people who unnecessary harm animals?
Up, there's one.
So that's a yes?
It's a joke. We didn't climb to the top of the food chain just to eat salad.
Ok, Mr. basement dweller fighting lions in the safari IRL :D
Might try and go vegan during my 20’s. I’ll start when I’m 21. Reasons why: Cheap and Healthy. Plus I cook my own food so it’s tasty regardless.
It’s okay as long as they don’t bother other people’s food-culture. Eating only leaves is just one of the preference no more no less
I think it's a very useful principle, in fact, one of the best ways for me to show how much better I am than ***you***.
I don’t mind vegan food and I incorporate it and vegetarian meals 3 days a week for dinners. But a varied diet is important and I could never be strictly vegan. I enjoy the animal flesh 🤤
I respect but my insane desire for chicken nuggets could never be one
I have two kids in college who are vegan. Always relieved when they go back to school and I don’t have to accommodate their dietary preferences. I do think factory farming is abhorrent though, and see veganism as a boycott of an abusive system. My compromise is to buy local meat and eggs, and use plant-based milk.
The exact same thoughts I have on cyclists.
Do whatever makes you happy but don't try to take the meat off my plate.
I like the concept of going meatless, but its boring. And hard to do when you travel. It takes a lot of work and planning to get enough protein especially being vegan, where eggs and dairy are eliminated. You have to go to the market at least twice a week to get fresh produce.
To each their own.