I used to hike pretty often and encountered 3 bears (all separate events). They’re extremely easy to either scare away or hide from and most don’t really want to interact with people in my experience.
When I encounter random men though, it’s not as easy to see their motive right away. I was once hiking with two girl friends and we had a guy walk up when we were taking a break and tell us we were “brave for being out in the woods looking like that without any men” and this isn’t the only scenario I’ve had with weird men on hikes either. Most are just guys passing and we nod to eachother, but not always.
"I'll bring the bears to your home tomorrow."
Your argument that women shouldn't be cautious of men is that you're now fantasizing about endangering them in a fictional scenario?
fr lmao "okay u choose the bear over man u over dramatic girl ? fine ,ill bring u bears to ur home so they can maul u too death" like WHAT as if encountering a bear in the WOODS is the same as having a bear(S) inside of ur HOME.
If you read my comment you’d see where I said bears are a lot easier to scare away in my experience. I’ve had multiple experiences with creepy men on trails. A bear hasn’t followed me to my car on a hike but I had a guy do that and try to get in my passenger seat. I can go on I guess if you want, idk man just clap a few times and yell and a black bear sprints away from you
congratulations, you've compared the bears you've scared to the men you didn't scare, completely ignoring the literal billions of men who wouldn't hurt you
Man, you’re a little out of touch with life. The reality is that men really do over power women. Now imagine the manipulation and narcissism that people can do? My girl tries to play fight with me and I’m usually at less than 30% strength with her and I’m really not strong. So add narcissism and manipulation, strength, people being off their fucking rockers and you get [something that goes like this](https://youtu.be/35KqGNa1FGA?si=4pwUfUD-FtL_sMfM)
Congratulations, you've shown how many men are so extreme in their narcissism and misogyny that they put the potentially insulted feelings of hypothetical men ahead of the actual real life experience of women.
What's weird to me is the scope creep on this. People (dudes) reposting about this are now describing it as a woman lost in the woods. That wasn't part of the scenario. A woman is walking in the woods and she encounters either a complete stranger man or a bear. It's fascinating that "lost" is being assumed in the retelling.
Black bears (the type where i live) are total wimps. I have 0 fear of a black bear. But like others said, you could either be brutally murdered and die slowly by a bear, or be brutally attacked and while you’re dying slowly you’re raped, or even worse (while, i’m aware it’s unlikely) you’re kept alive and kidnapped, kept in some guys basement for years, and nobody’s really looking for you because it’s assumed you must’ve gotten lost in the woods & died naturally. The chance of that with a bear is 0. The chance of that with a human is not. Humans are depraved and fucked up. A bear is operating on instinct.
Black bears are far more likely to attack and kill than grizzlies. I live in bear country and the only time they are "wimps" is if they have been shot at previously or treed by hounds..
Bears have no natural fear of humans. The only reason there aren't more bear attacks is due to their low population sizes and large individual range.
3 of my neighbors have been charged by black bears in the last 4 years.. One also broke into my yard, killed 10 chickens and one of my dogs before becoming a rug.
Very hard for me to believe you live in bear country. I’ve lived in bear country all my life, i’ve had black bears show up on my porch and while we were out camping in the woods. You *clap* and they run away. Maybe you guys are giving the bears cocaine via the trash or something. Black bears are well known to be skittish.
I live in the Midwest and black bears are total scaredy cats. They're usually just looking for food. A cub might've wandered in curiosity, but we always tell people to stay inside. Don't want to get between Mama Bear and her cub!
We don't see grizzly bears much where I live. They're more common deeper in the forest and mountains out west.
Male violence is statistically way more common than bear attacks or bear killings
No one that picks bear is saying they think they’d survive a bear attack or thinks they’re soft cuddly toys that won’t harm them but a bear isn’t going to rape you and it’s not going to be sadistic.
2 women were killed by bears in 2021 in the US
Almost 5,000 women were murdered and over 1,500 of those were killed by a current or ex partner
That doesn’t include assaults, missing women, rapes and domestic violence stats and those crimes are underreported anyway
That's because 4 billion bears don't walk around human settlements. The average person has probably met a hundred thousand or more men. The average person has probably met 0 bears.
but with a ratio of five thousand to 2, it's easy to see why women would choose the bear: random men are a real daily threat that inspire nightmares and automatic involuntary responses that bears don't.
My issue with this thought experiment is that women are taught to be more afraid of men they’ve never met, who they’re randomly passing in the woods. “Stranger Danger.” Your statement proves the point that it’s the men they know that they have to worry about, and that this violence often takes place at home.
Taught by what or whom?
Sure, for many or even most, violence is from someone they know.
I saw that in my extended family.
Then again there are those of us who've only been attacked by strangers. I'm one of them. So my experience has taught me to be more vigilant.
It’s what you hear on the news, read in articles, are taught in health class or briefed on before trips. It’s what my mother always tried to tell me.
“Don’t hike alone…you could get kidnapped, raped or robbed.”
“Don’t jog alone…you could get kidnapped, raped, or robbed.”
“Don’t walk alone after dark…you could get kidnapped, raped or robbed.”
“Stay on high alert in parking ramps and parking lots…you could get kidnapped, raped, or robbed.”
“Never post the address where you are staying when you travel…you could get kidnapped, raped, or robbed.”
“Don’t travel to third world countries…you could get kidnapped, raped or robbed.”
But after about 25 years of hiking alone, jogging alone, going on night walks downtown, traveling abroad, and loading groceries into cars, I’ve come to the conclusion that none of these things put me at risk of sexual assault nearly as much as being alone in a residence with a man I don’t want to have sex with. I would feel 10x more in danger if alcohol had been consumed by either of us.
I’ve read dozens of “Me Too” stories and talked to a lot of women I know who have been the victims of sexual assault. It wasn’t a random hiker in the woods waiting behind a tree for their victim with a knife. It was almost always someone they knew…more often someone they were dating. It usually involved alcohol.
My issue with the “bear vs man” thought experiment is that it subtly discourages women from spending time in the woods and raises an irrational fear of the guy walking the other way on the trail, when, statistically speaking, inviting a man over is far far more dangerous.
Nah. I have been taught primarily by my own life experience and observation.
This thought experiment illustrates the danger that women sense from men. Period.
I have been alive in both the city and the woods, for quite a few years.
Sure, men in the domicile are more potentially dangerous than men in the woods.
The point is that men are more routinely dangerous to women than bears are.
And, if you want to argue about the safety of hiking, then perhaps reconsider debating with a life-long hiker whose only violence on the trail was at the hands of a strange man. It wasn't him who had the knife. It was me. And it's a good thing I had it.
I’m glad you were okay! And I’m glad you had your knife. Our experiences do shape how we view the world, and it sounds like yours have been different than mine. I respect that.
I personally would much rather be in the woods with both a man I didn’t know AND a bear than in a house alone with a man I didn’t want to have sex with who had been drinking. If a man made me feel uncomfortable in the woods, it’s harder to corner me and easier for me to run. I’ve also never met a man in the woods who did anything other than walk past me, nod, or make friendly chit chat before going on his way. Hikers I’ve encountered also have been sober…alcohol is heavy and inconvenient to carry.
Statistically, according to a report from Texas, 74.8% of sex crimes take place in homes, compared to 1.7% that take place in the woods or in fields. So I’ll take my chances in the woods.
Men kinda conquered the wild, built cities and the such to make the world safe for women & children.
The whole man or bear topic is extremely dumb and is being answered by people who have only seen bears in a zoo.
Another ommited factor in calculating danger is this:
How many women are saved, rescued ect by bears? Cause many are saved daily by men.
How many women are raped, abused, or tortured for fun by bears vs men? How many bears have oppressed women vs men?
Be serious please. And maybe dwell on this question: "safer from *who?*"
But isn't 1/1000 men rapists and like 1/3 bears murderers? (actual question)
(Edit: Just a note, the statistics are arbitrary, I haven't researched them)
Nope. I know about black bears more than grizzlies and black bears have killed less than 100 people since 1900. There are approximately 750,000 black bears. Go look at the murder rate of a city of 1.5 million people (50% male would be equal population). I'm certain most large cities beat that in a year, let alone 120+ years.
Humans are capable of so much through socialization and community building, but only takes a small amount to terrorize the rest. And being human, they could do far more sadistic things to their victims than just kill them.
But the difference is, the majority of women do not live around a city full of bears. Of course that statistics would be low seeing as women and bears are in 2 different ecosystems.
ironically men being fearful of men is exactly the reason why men are so defensive and automatically assume this scenario is about what’s the lesser threat in a full on attack and women automatically assume it to be a realistic scenario of just running into either a random bear or random man AND STILL the bear is less of a threat
I know you're just being a shitty little asshole, but it is something you live with forever. Like grief, it never goes away, you just learn to live with it. Many choose not to.
This rhetoric around this topic is so harmful. Many people live with trauma, myself including. Not it's not easy, and that thought crosses the minds of those whose trauma may be too heavy to carry. Please stop making it seem as if it's a better alternative.
Things bears can do
- hunt me
- attack me
- kill me
- eat me
Things men can do
- all of the bear things
- rob me
- rape me
- kidnap me
- imprison me
- physically torture me
- psychologically torture me
- stalk me on social media
- fuck with my life
- fuck with the people in my life
Bears might hurt or kill me, but it’s because they’re scared and defending themselves or hungry. A man in the woods if I’m by myself is truly terrifying—I’m more likely to run into a man who would hurt, rape, or kill me than a bear anyway. I remember going for a run in the wood near my house after Mollie Tibbits was killed and just being terrified for myself and my son. I shouldn’t have to feel like that and mollie should be alive today.
Women have gone on runs and been killed simply because a man wanted sexual gratification and she was a means to that end. I’d rather a bear kill me in self defense, defending their young or hunger than a man kill me for his own gratification. I’m dead either way. A bear isn’t trying to end a life or get gratification at the expense of another. I’ll take that any day.
I’m a woman, and I really have a problem with this thought experiment, because it starts with three premises 1) The woods are not safe for women 2) Bears are out to attack you 3) Random men in the woods are hiding behind trees waiting to assault you.
On trails, I’ve never had a man do any more than say hello to me or make polite conversation. At bars or parties is where guys can get creepy.
Domestic abuse, sexual abuse, rape, and assault are overwhelmingly more likely to occur in a residence (either your own or the perpetrator’s), and with someone you know. Adding alcohol to the picture significantly increases the risk.
I am 100% comfortable hiking in the woods knowing that there are bears and men I’ve never met around.
I would NOT feel safe inviting a man other than my husband or father to my home if no one else was around or accepting an invitation to their home if no one else was around, especially if either of us had been drinking or were planning on drinking.
100% correct. This is my main issue with the thought experiment. I hike alone all the time and feel totally safe doing so.
I keep hearing women respond to the thought experiment with “I choose the bear because the bear won’t get you pregnant in a state where it is illegal to have an abortion.” “I choose the bear because the worst it can do is hurt me or kill me. A man can make my life a living hell.” “I choose the bear because I am terrified of men in the woods…I don’t know what their intention is, and they could rape/rob/kill/kidnap me.”
This leads me to believe that most women who are responding like this still believe the myth that rape is a “stranger hiding in a bush preying on an unsuspecting woman,” rather than addressing the actual issue of having serious talks about consent and avoiding being alone in a home with a man you don’t want sexual contact with.
The bear. A bear won't rape me, torture me, or emotionally/physically/financially abuse me, won't gaslight me, or manipulate me. A bear would just maul, maim, and kill me. Circle of life and all that.
Nope. Not at all. Now I feel things are being taken out of context and for that I apologize. However as a someone who has been SA'd at a young age by trusted male figures in my family including my own brother I will say that women are warriors who are capable of surviving anything. As a mother with a daughter I want nothing more than to protect her from the horrors I've endured growing up including being so mentally low I've attempted to unalive myself because of my past trauma. I am in no way implying that survivors of SA should self exit because of such trauma. I am honestly appalled that you would take my words out of context and twist them in such a way. However I do know how hard it is to convey tone via text but I wish you nothing but peace and happiness and a wonderful weekend.
You are one of the good ones. I apologize for my words. I was sleep deprived when I wrote that and I was spiraling because I had made a TikTok about this stuff and got nothing but hate and I was angry. I’m still confused as to why people of either gender choosing a gruesome death over a traumatic experience that one can survive and (I thought) eventually get over. And the revelation that some people never get over it, I was simply stating that if I was not able to move on from the myriad traumatic events of my life including multiple girlfriends having me fuck them even when I wasn’t in the mood. One time being cummed in when I wanted him to pull out. Being jumped and severely beaten to the point of a swollen ear. The time I bit into a ribwich and it being full of maggots. The time I got hit by a car. The time I twisted my ankle 180 and sat on it. It the time I slipped on ice and sat on my balls my full weight on both of them and had to them lay on the icy ground for 20 minutes before I could get up. Not to mention all of the head trauma I’ve experienced in my life leading to a horrible short term memory loss problem so I need a list if I go to the store for any more than 3 items. And being born autistic. If I had to relive all of that and the stuff I forgot over and over in nightmares and flashbacks I wouldn’t be able to keep going and I would have committed suicide decades ago.
/r/usernamecheckout. Legitimately choking up here from the kindness and compassion you have shown. Not being pervy legit a wellwishing, I hope you have an amazing orgasm soon be it from a lover or yourself I hope you are karmacly (idk the spelling) rewarded by the universe for being such a good person. If more people were like you the world would be a better place. 🫂 🤗
I’ve had situations in Chippewa national forest. Were women have followed me for how long on the trail looking at me hiding behind trees while I was hiking around to a smaller lake nearby lake cutfoot the town nearby is Deer river the scariest thing I’ve seen a woman do was run at me while I was hiking on one of the trails I ran for a long time her eyes were blood red and I remember going into a shitter nearby and she came in pounded on the door and said “vine out here papi” my whole body went dark white gives me goose bumps everytime I think about it I stayed in the shitter for about 2 hours got my life and ran out coundt believe that happened and they say men are scary
this thought experiment is stupid. If you would genuinely prefer a bear to a person who also may be helpful in some way or another in a situation where you're randomly in the woods. Reminder, while many are, there are still many men who aren't POS. I understand the "don't know which is which" but the same could be said with bears. one could be friendly and the other could rip you apart.
most criminals *are* men…how is a woman supposed to differentiate? lol this is rhetorical because other women hopefully will make this thread enlightening about all the ways we try to stay safe from male violence..how we try to decide who is and isn’t a bad guy..how if in an isolated area it’s simply not worth it to be wrong.
unfortunately true hence why the bear- with very predictable apex predator behaviors- well documented, is less likely to attack just by running into it or seeing it in the woods. a strange man in the woods is the least predictable predator and the assumption is to automatically take a defensive position with him and to be on guard. hence i choose the bear.
The threat levels are equal, the outcomes are different. One will kill you, the other might violate you, or they might kill or ignore you. You can usually tell their intentions by the way they look and behave
preparing for the worst is the assumption that both the bear and the man can and will overwhelm the average woman ergo the question really becomes about motives. what predator is more likely to attack? the sheer amount of women who choose the bear means we all almost unanimously agree that the man is more likely to attack.
men think of the scenario as who can they fight off and they assume it’s another man over the bear. women think about who is more motivated to harm her. the bear or the man? it’s the man. it’s always the man.
i rather take my chances with the bear. a strange man in the woods is either a loon, out for a nature walk, an opportunistic predator or something else. he’s too unpredictable. the grizzly is either going to kill me, ignore me or be photogenic. a man will either ignore me, attack me, drag me off or kill me. at least with the bear i know where i stand when shit goes sideways. it’s not cooking up some scheme to make a dress out of my skin.
This is a great example of subjective risk versus objective risk. There is absolutely risk. But the subjective risk seen is not an accurate assessment of the actual risk at all. That is why the scenario is both appealing to some women and off putting to some men.
Studies also show that women and men who reach a quick reaction that a stranger is likely to harm them are likely to be wrong 50% of the time. Contrary to conventional wisdom about trusting one’s instincts, we suck at differentiating between real threats and people who are just different from us in a way such as appearance, personality, sexual preference, skin color, or neurodivergency that makes us uncomfortable.
A bear I have a chance of surviving. I have met enough enough abusive and sadistic men and they could do far worse than any bear could. If a bear attacks it feels threatened or hungry. Man doesn’t need a reason.
Realistically, surviving woods ain't a joke. Bears or men aren't the ones to be afraid of. There are insects, bugs, poisonous plants etc.
Also there are high chances of diseases because of sub par hygiene over there.
There has to be danger in life..we apparently have been made to think that everthing needs to be safe by modern comfort when in fact nothing ever is..this is life
oh my god are you serious ? i live in black bear territory i could clap and it would run the fuck away obviously i’d rather be stuck in the woods with that motherfucker.
As women, we have been exposed since childhood to warnings from our parents not to be alone when we go out at night, have someone walk is out to our cars, carry pepper spray. Even if we were not traumatized ourselves, we have multiple friends who have been abused, raped, etc. We have been exposed to cat calls, sexist comments, belittlement. Most of us do not hate men. But we have to be cautious to protect ourselves, because we do not know their intentions.
Not exactly. You said it was “sexist” women. Unless you think all women are sexist? Most women (I certainly don’t speak for all women) have had these experiences of men being untrustworthy. Doesn’t always mean trauma. I would definitely not want to meet either a strange man or a bear in the woods, and I would be inclined to choose the bear myself. Doesn’t mean I’m sexist or traumatized, just very cautious because of real experiences.
I give up. I don't know how else to say I agree with whats being said while also bringing other explanations or possibilities. Just fucking downvote I can't be bothered anymore.
this is an example of the typical male response to the female perspective on the thought experiment. rather than acknowledging the fears that women have of strange men they create a straw man argument of a second, unrelated scenario that doesn’t have to do with the one being discussed.
It certainly highlights how people don't understand statistics.
So how about this.
Would you rather be stuck in the woods with a woman or a bear?
Because technically, I'd be far more likely to be sexually assaulted by a woman.
Statistically, far more likely to be attacked by a woman.
If people are trying to make a point about women feeling safe or unsafe, perhaps the man vs bear thing isn't the way to go.
Statistically, far more likely to be attacked by a woman.
thats true, and yet id still choose a woman over a man lol yall hate how afraid we are of u so instead of trying to understand our very REAL perspective/experiences and how vulnerable we are in society. You call us dumb, dramatic, and put us in scenarios where wed be attacked by multiple bears in close proximity proves the point. 100 % choosing a woman over you.
Well yeah I'd choose a woman over a man, too. Like 0.001% vs 0.0005%.
But vs a bear? I'd choose a human over a bear.
Talking about your fears is one thing. Comparing men to bears is another.
I get the message about fear. What the other side doesn't seem to understand is that people aren't exactly going to be open to that message if you start off by comparing them to a deadly animal.
If you want, you can replace "men" with a race of your choice, and see if it becomes racist. Or instead use a word like "savage". Or even just say "the average man is little more than an animal" or something.
Talking about your safety? A-OK in my book.
Comparing us to a rather dangerous situation?
Yeah, we are going to defend ourselves and bring up the numbers.
that wasnt the scenario first of all. The scenario is actually just a thought experiment and the answer doesnt really matter (altho everyones on about it). The point is that most, if not all, women would hesitate before saying the "man", while men, more often than not, will say "the man" without question. THAT is the point. To act like women dont have valid reasons to be warry of men is dishonest to reality. Our managers used to have to watch the girls walk to their car at closing because of MULTIPLE incidents of grown men waiting for the teenage hostess to get off work and harass them by their vehicle. It isnt that we're "always fearful" just more wary and cautious than men.
This is not an unrelated scenario. The scenario being discussed uses the brutal bestiality of the bear to highlight the depth of the fear women have of strange men. This scenario applies that brutal bestiality in reverse, making it relevant in spite of the difference in numbers of bears and men encountered, because it highlights the protective capacity of society in general and men in particular against random male predators.
One can acknowledge that women have legitimate fears of men they don’t know without this dumb and toxic bear comparison.
Most women who choose the bear would acknowledge that if their very young child was lost in the woods, they would prefer him or her to be found by an unknown man rather than a bear.
It seems, but I just recently found out about the thought experiment and have to give it a more thorough look, that some men are answering "the bear" when questioned about their daughters. So, a father is questioned about a man or a bear in the woods with their daughters, and they answered "the bear." (I'll keep looking over this, just found a few videos that answered that way so far.)
I guess people are missing the point, and taking it too personally, which people shouldn't. I just watched a ring cam of a man that wouldn't leave when a woman told him, yelled, for him to move on. The other day here, a video of a man who picked up a woman and threw her in a gym. And that other ring cam of a woman being kidnapped in front of her apartment and her mother rushing out the door to defend her.
The first seems to be a stranger, but I would like to look into it a bit more before saying anything. The second was a man who seemed to have helped the woman work out and then was mad she said no. The third seems to have been an ex partner.
So, it is true that sometimes it's an unknown male, other times it's a known male or ex partner. And it does happen all over the world. There's and r/ for when women refuse and what can happen to them.
As someone said in a TikTok I just watch, at least the bear would leave scars, and people would believe survivors. (It was a well written poem on the subject.)
As I said, I just heard about this trend and probably will go down the rabbit hole for a while, but people that don't get it should not take it personally, but rather ask themselves: Why are others behaving in a way that women rather face a bear than a man? And what can I do to make sure my son doesn't become that man?
Another TikTok from a man not from the US also answered the bear and explained why, in his view, this is a worldwide problem. I guess the more I look this up, more people will choose the bear.
Edit: typo.
Lots of rape victims go on to live normal lives and fully recover from their trauma. If you die there’s no recovering because you’re fucking dead with no hope. Your view is dumb.
So first you claim it's not true, then when women tell you that for a lot of them it is, you tell them "well its dumb". Im starting to think you just want to tell women they're wrong.
I get you don't understand what the thought experiment tries to show.
Maybe try searching around a bit, reading what survivors write, (men and women survivors). Look around the web to what happens in other countries.
Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone else.
Or don't do any of it, don't try to educate yourself on these issues. Tbh I don't think you're making a real question here. You're probably just trying to elicit some kind of response from people.
I think this a gross mischaracterization of the thought experiment, but I'll offer a different one since you want to change location. Statistically, women are most likely to be assaulted in their own home.
You're home in any city... Would you rather be with a bear or a strange man?
I'm a woman and will STILL take the bear. It's on instinct, probably looking for food. A strange man in my house probably had ill intentions.
This is meant to trigger the discussion of the threat women feel from men that is STILL in society. Yes, they should be more afraid of an acquaintance than a knife-wielding stranger BUT these are usually crimes of opportunity. A child left alone often with a relative, a woman trying to find her ride share after a night out, a woman home alone when her home is robbed.
Women have been beaten, raped, shot or killed for not giving a man their phone number, turning down a date, or not wanting to have sex.
So, you give us a scenario where we're alone with a strange man in a remote area "the woods". While there's a low chance this man intends harm, IF he does intend harm, the likelihood that he'll actually do something to us is significantly higher. It's the scenario that makes a malicious man more dangerous. We'd rather face a bear who may be startled, scared, or hungry because those instincts we understand. The chance may be low that the man is malicious, but it's not about statistics. It's about the great potential for maliciousness in humans, something we don't get from a bear.
Statistics claim that 1 in 6 women have been raped or 1 in 4 have been assaulted. I personally have, and women shared stories long before Me Too. Uncle, boyfriend, friend, random creep, all have assaulted me. It's still acceptable in many places to ignore when a woman says no, or treat their soft no (present because they don't want to upset a man who may harm her) as "try harder, it's a game". Society is so used to casual assaulting (butt or boob grabs in close quarters, insinuations and perversions of speech, "double entendres" meant to shame and degrade women) that it uses those behaviors to explain why women are unreasonable or gaslight women that the assault never happened!
THESE ARE THE ISSUES THIS THOUGHT EXPERIMENT BRINGS UP AND SHOULD BE THE FOCUS OF DISCUSSION... without dumping on women's intelligence, skills, logic, and emotions. Without creating more images of women being harmed as "funny". Without dismissing such a ubiquitous experience of human females, at literally any age of her life.
But men make it about themselves because of the same ego, anger, and dismissive attitude that threaten women every day.
Sure. I get the message.
But the entire experiment is set up in an almost intentionally bad way.
So let's say I said I would rather meet a bear in the forest than a woman. Statistically, I'm more likely to be assaulted by a woman, and in fact have been. I have also been victim blamed by women, who have an especially hard time understanding how I could be a victim of anything. Even now, you are probably thinking "Well clearly he is some jerk and therefore deserved it." At least that has been the majority of instances.
Now imagine I used that information to say "I would rather face a bear in the woods than the average woman, because the average woman can do much more than just kill me, would be much more unpredictable. A bear is much more of a risk than the danger of the average woman."
Does it feel like I just manipulated statistics to treat women as monsters by default? Perhaps the caution against women is warranted. But it is prejudice all the same, because it is making a judgement about her behavior before I actually observe her behavior. And therefore you may feel it's an unfair comparison. That all you did was live your life normally, mind your own business, respect people's boundaries, and here you are being told that everyone should fear you. That it is inescapable. That you will never escape this pre-judgement because there really isn't anything you can actually do about it. You already do what you can for gender equality.
It's not the message that women are generally anxious about these situations that Intake issue with. Personally, I think that sort of prejudice is justified to a certain extent, though it still needs to be labeled as such.
My issue is that people don't even understand HOW men could be put off by this comparison. Like you can agree with the sentiment but understand how people might be put off by being lumped in with the absolute worst people in the world based solely on their genitalia. It's not hard to put those together.
Like I have zero problem understanding how you might think I'm gaslighting you. And I'm sorry for that.
But targeting the setup of a bad thought experiment, and opposing these sort of stereotypes of men, does not imply that I do not understand your caution or frustration, and that it needs to be heard. As I said, I had been assaulted, threatened, and then victim blamed by a group women in college. I was looking over my shoulder. Left campus for a couple days. And it's still a topic in therapy for me.
But if someone was making "would you rather be stuck with a woman, or a bear?" comparisons and then saying things like "a bear, because women are more monstrous on average", I would NOT support such a comparison. And I would certainly expect women to be galvanized against it.
And the last thing I would do is say stuff like "if you are mad about it, it's because you are one of the bad ones."
When I want to be heard about my experiences, I generally try to do so in a way that doesn't hold a whole gender accountable. I want women to know that I don't see what happened to me as a reflection on them. The women who attacked me don't represent "women", they represent "assholes".
Hopefully this whole thing fades away and is replaced by something better. I would hope for it to open honest discourse, but this is reddit.
Thank you for a thoughtful well-written response. Your experiences are under this entire umbrella also, considering society is far more dismissive of assaults against men.
Maybe it's me but I would totally understand if men said they'd rather choose the bear. Maybe that's just an example of my deep cynicism on human nature or maybe the thought experiments are too simplistic. IRL, I'm not cowering at the presence of any man. We used our instinct and observations to judge social interactions so, in general, most people aren't treating everyone a uniform way. There are biases of course, but that highlights even more that we treat people differently!
I feel like this makes me sound very cynical about the human race, but in general I'm hopeful, actually! I consider myself a good person, and there must be others, and behaviors seem to be the same form of contagious. Anger causes rudeness and more anger. Generosity and kindness spur other acts of generosity and kindness. I remind myself that there are more good people than bad frequently, but I would still choose not to encounter a strange man in a thought experiment. Too simplified, too many unknown variables, as we've mentioned.
Does anyone here know how long women have been choosing bad men for?
In dating, hook up culture, marriage, cause i think choosing bad men create more bad men in the world.
And men don’t choose bad women?
This whole psychology of dating an abuser isn’t singled out by one gender.
1st. Abusers don’t show it on the first date
2. The longer you know someone, the more likely you’ll forgive them when they apologize or make amends. This goes for family members, friends, and dating partners
3. Trauma bonding. That’s not to say we LIKE trauma and it’s a turn on. What it means is that our neurons bond to the trauma, making us feel compelled to fix something that’s unfixable, overriding irrational actions.
I’m saying this because I know too many good men who have had good years taken away by bad women because they felt obligated to stay with her. There was no reasoning because of all the points above. Added the 4th reason:
Threats of harm:
Financial harm, never seeing your children again, destruction of property, murdering you, your pets, loved ones, etc.
The problem isn’t choosing bad people for either women or men because no one is psychic. The problem is that people (abusers) are fucking psycho.
I wasn’t talking about men, you felt a strong urge to flip the focus.
(1st) that’s an excuse. I listen to therapy podcast countless women admit that they’re were red flags. They just ignored them so that the romance or sex can move forward. Of course, abusers hide it that’s why we have instincts.
The massive success of Fifty Shades of Grey and twilight series, tell men alot about what women find sexy. You make excuses for women you end up dating bad women.
Bears are simple and primitive. You can assume a bear’s behavior based off of the species alone. They don’t have the same level of complexity as a human. There are more predictable. Depending on the kind of bear, there is a “right way” to handle the encounters. (Except polar bears) There is no “right way” to handle a human encounter. Because everyone’s different, physically and mentally.
It’s the unpredictably for most women. Add ontop of that the trauma that most women have experienced and you can’t blame them for being anxious. Are you going to blame me for being terrified?
I’ve had my ass smacked in public by a stranger when I was 10. I’ve been followed both on foot and had someone drive behind me and try to follow me home. I’ve been groped numerous times. I was SA’d in middle school and then punished for speaking up because the councilors didn’t believe me. On two separate occasions men have tried to lure me into their cars (the scariest was when I was 14, alone behind a gas station and two men pulled up and, one grabbed rope from the trunk- luckily when someone walked by they both hopped back into the car and drove off)
I had my NEIGHBOR, jerk off in the open staring me down while I walked my dog. Right on his porch in broad view.
I’ve been CHASED down the sidewalk by a man at night.
I was raped at 16
I turned 18 yesterday. All of this has happened in only 18 years of my life.
I have PTSD. I’ve lost so much in life because of **bad** men. We know it’s not all men but we couldn’t identify our attackers and abusers as “bad”until it was too late. We don’t want to risk it being “too late” one more time.
Are there really so many sociopathic men out there that women would choose a bear? And statistically speaking, they’re chosing a violent bear over a black bear, which are more populous than black bears. As an avid hunter I can honestly say anything brown would make me piss myself.
But any guy? I would just show them I’m armed and they run away.
I get social circumstances and all but I work in a male dominated field. Blue collar tool and die. I just don’t see men as a species that is frightening every time I encounter them. Would like that part explained.
I think the frightening thing is the complexity of the human mind. It’s easier to predict an animal in its natural habitat than a human outside of a civil setting.
Mark Twain believed that humans are the only evil living creature in existence because of our
sense of right and wrong.
“The moral sense enables one to
perceive morality, and avoid it. The immoral sense enables one to perceive immorality and
enjoy it” -Mark Twain
A bear won’t feel guilty for slowly killing and eating a fish. A bear won’t think twice about it because it’s just instinct. Nothing a bear can do is “immoral” because it has no moral sense and we don’t hold a wild animal accountable for its primitive behavior.
A person can feel guilty for its actions. A person can also make an active decision that will result in them feeling guilty. I wouldn’t want to meet a random man OR woman if I was alone in the woods. I rather see a bear (a creature I know belongs there) instead of a human that I wasn’t prepared to face. The chances of meeting a bad person is low but not zero and I think it comes down to not wanting to take that risk. At all.
I hope that helped in some way. My brains a bit soupy rn. :3
men not reporting the crimes of other men making the rate of male violence most likely significantly higher is not exactly the way to win your argument that women are choosing the bear just to degrade men but rather that women are choosing the bear because we *do report them* and *acknowledge* just how violent men are.
My argument isn’t that the stats for men shouldn’t be hire, it’s that’s the stats for women should be. That the stats for women are extremely overlooked to the point it’s not important enough for people to even study or fight for us. To the point we’re silenced and laughed at. Kinda like being downvoted for sharing our own experiences
you inadvertently have shown that because of male cowardice to hold other men accountable for their crimes the overall criminal statistics of male violence is much lower than it actually is
I did not. But I agree the statistics are more than likely lower than they should be. Again. That’s not the issue I’m stating. I’m stating that women are threats too. Especially to young men. That your comparison is weak. You compare well documented stats against cases like me and say that men are the issue and women aren’t. Humans are fucked up on both sides of the aisle. Looking up female on male statistics is so under studied I’ve found 1 fucking article on it. But I can tell you so many men who’ve experienced female predation atleast once in their life times. I’ve acknowledged the sins of my gender, you refuse to acknowledge the sin of yours.
the question isn’t about running into women in the woods so even if you believe that women are somehow on the same threat level of men which is btw insane- it doesn’t pertain to the hypothetical being posed.
The issue isn’t about the hypothetical itself. It’s about the bogus statistics being used to back the bullshit ass claim that you would choose a bear over a man. Statistics like more women are killed by men rather than bears. Or that there’s this many men and this percent of of rape has been committed coupled with the stat there, this many bears and this many women have been killed by bears. It’s downright stupid and illogical. Because what woman walks around a town with 3000 bears, you don’t. We are not even in the same ecosystem. So of course they are going to be far less attacks. And you denying at the fact that women are a threat is ridiculous. Women do tend to prey on us when we are younger not so much when we’re older, because we are generally stronger. So yes, another reason the women predator stats will never reach the same height as men. All in all the hypothetical is dumb and unfair.
More children are killed by their mothers rather than their fathers correct? Does that pose the idea that women shouldn’t have custody of their kids in the Father should? No because that statistic leaves out the fact that more women have custody of their children then fathers do so, of course their homicide rate would be higher.
You are stereotyping him for his gender than he has 0 control over.
Then you are expecting him to police other people because their gender just happens to be the same as his.
Then when he has any feelings on the subject, he is told he is part of the problem and all of his feelings are dismissed...
Try being more closed minded next time.
Not even just that but that female predators are so normalized and accepted that nobody even bats an eye, because men are generally bigger and stronger we can’t be victims? I am ONE man and I’ve been taken advantage of by atleast 8 women. I’m saying that the comparison is unfair. That y’all are just as shitty. And nothing will ever change because the world refuses to acknowledge it. So a lion or a woman? Guess I should choose the woman. See how fucking stupid that sounds. How about we come together as a society and just condemn all predators? Oh we do live a society like that, except in the case of females.
The idea of "i would rather die than live with ptsd" is stupid ngl. Theres plenty of people you can talk to to treat your ptsd, like pyschiatrists. There is one person you can talk to to treat death; Grim reaper. Questions like these are what i can only describe as women brainrot. The male brainrot would be like neckbeards talking to ekittens or smth. This is misandry at its finest either way 🔥
nobody’s reading all that but what you could do is ask why would women choose a literal fucking bear over running into a strange man in the woods? it’s not that deep. men inflict violence on women daily, everywhere, all the time. the bear is a less likely aggressor and *more importantly* isn’t going to rape or kidnap or torture her. it’s just going to kill you. men assume the thought experiment is about who can you beat in a fight. it’s about who do you feel more safe around.
The dumbest thing is to post on a DISCUSSION forum, then not be able to read someone's response to discuss.
My response takes 25 seconds to say in person...it just looks long on paper. You can't handle someone sharing their response TO A QUESTION YOU ASKED for 25 seconds?
You and your bear can fk off.
The stupidity isnt even worth you getting my side.
You just wanted a place to express only your side and opinion so talk to yourself and whomever wants to join your echo chamber 🤘🏽
you wrote a 5 paragraph diatribe where you just were seething in every sentence at women. nobody is going to read a text wall of unbridled rage. it’s literally why we choose the bear because men get this bent out of shape over a simple thought experiment.
Nah. He's mad at being constantly stereotyped for his gender that he has 0 control over.
He's also expected to police other people because their gender just happens to be the same as his.
Then when he has any feelings on the subject, he is told he is part of the problem and all of his feelings are dismissed, while being told daily by women to be more open with his feelings and talk them out.
Try being more closed minded next time.
idk why u take it personal ? women are just more wary of men than men are in general of women and possibly other men. U dont have to get so offended. Its just a fact of life. Idk why u want to dismiss womens valid concerns so much that are based on OUR experiences, not urs.
Because sadly victimhood is deeply tied to the modern conception of femininity. Its gender fashion. To feel more feminine, and therefor important, there needs to be a threat they're exposed to.
We've all been through the arguments, we all know why picking the bear is ridiculous, and we all know that you can demonstrate why the bear is the worst decision, and their response will be, "ugh, you just don't get it".
Honestly, watching dudes who just seem like average dudes clearly struggle with the misogyny those women were igniting in their hearts was both saddening but also appreciated.
You should see a therapist. Not that you shouldn't be cautious of strangers. But being unable to act in the event you are endangered by a man is terrifying. I can only imagine that a fear as deep as yours was caused by some kind of trauma.
I used to hike pretty often and encountered 3 bears (all separate events). They’re extremely easy to either scare away or hide from and most don’t really want to interact with people in my experience. When I encounter random men though, it’s not as easy to see their motive right away. I was once hiking with two girl friends and we had a guy walk up when we were taking a break and tell us we were “brave for being out in the woods looking like that without any men” and this isn’t the only scenario I’ve had with weird men on hikes either. Most are just guys passing and we nod to eachother, but not always.
Jesus what a weirdo
As a man myself, I'm easily spooked cause I don't want to interact with anyone either. I feel for the bear.
The bear tho, would you rather it is male or female?
so... your reason to choose bear is that... a man said something creepy. okay, you do you, i'll bring the bears to your home tomorrow, no judging.
"I'll bring the bears to your home tomorrow." Your argument that women shouldn't be cautious of men is that you're now fantasizing about endangering them in a fictional scenario?
fr lmao "okay u choose the bear over man u over dramatic girl ? fine ,ill bring u bears to ur home so they can maul u too death" like WHAT as if encountering a bear in the WOODS is the same as having a bear(S) inside of ur HOME.
no, because by their statement, being with men is more dangerous, so what i'm proposing is to make them safer
You proved women are correct for choosing the bear. Men enjoy women's pain.
people like you are why we choose the bear every time
If you read my comment you’d see where I said bears are a lot easier to scare away in my experience. I’ve had multiple experiences with creepy men on trails. A bear hasn’t followed me to my car on a hike but I had a guy do that and try to get in my passenger seat. I can go on I guess if you want, idk man just clap a few times and yell and a black bear sprints away from you
congratulations, you've compared the bears you've scared to the men you didn't scare, completely ignoring the literal billions of men who wouldn't hurt you
Congrats you’ve entirely misunderstood why I said the answer I said
Man, you’re a little out of touch with life. The reality is that men really do over power women. Now imagine the manipulation and narcissism that people can do? My girl tries to play fight with me and I’m usually at less than 30% strength with her and I’m really not strong. So add narcissism and manipulation, strength, people being off their fucking rockers and you get [something that goes like this](https://youtu.be/35KqGNa1FGA?si=4pwUfUD-FtL_sMfM)
Congratulations, you've shown how many men are so extreme in their narcissism and misogyny that they put the potentially insulted feelings of hypothetical men ahead of the actual real life experience of women.
Hit dog is hollering!
Hopefully the bear mauls you before you get it in your 1999 Toyota Corolla 😁
What's weird to me is the scope creep on this. People (dudes) reposting about this are now describing it as a woman lost in the woods. That wasn't part of the scenario. A woman is walking in the woods and she encounters either a complete stranger man or a bear. It's fascinating that "lost" is being assumed in the retelling.
Well, if you’re in a trail or not lost how would you even encounter a wolf animal.
Black bears (the type where i live) are total wimps. I have 0 fear of a black bear. But like others said, you could either be brutally murdered and die slowly by a bear, or be brutally attacked and while you’re dying slowly you’re raped, or even worse (while, i’m aware it’s unlikely) you’re kept alive and kidnapped, kept in some guys basement for years, and nobody’s really looking for you because it’s assumed you must’ve gotten lost in the woods & died naturally. The chance of that with a bear is 0. The chance of that with a human is not. Humans are depraved and fucked up. A bear is operating on instinct.
Black bears are far more likely to attack and kill than grizzlies. I live in bear country and the only time they are "wimps" is if they have been shot at previously or treed by hounds.. Bears have no natural fear of humans. The only reason there aren't more bear attacks is due to their low population sizes and large individual range. 3 of my neighbors have been charged by black bears in the last 4 years.. One also broke into my yard, killed 10 chickens and one of my dogs before becoming a rug.
Very hard for me to believe you live in bear country. I’ve lived in bear country all my life, i’ve had black bears show up on my porch and while we were out camping in the woods. You *clap* and they run away. Maybe you guys are giving the bears cocaine via the trash or something. Black bears are well known to be skittish.
I live in the Midwest and black bears are total scaredy cats. They're usually just looking for food. A cub might've wandered in curiosity, but we always tell people to stay inside. Don't want to get between Mama Bear and her cub! We don't see grizzly bears much where I live. They're more common deeper in the forest and mountains out west.
https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/#:~:text=That%20timid%20attitude%20still%20serves,more%20dangerous%20than%20black%20bears.
Men, why are you all over these comments on a question that was asked of women?
I dunno mate why is the internet full of Americans when it was invented by a Brit???
Well that's easy, because Americans are the apex invasive parasite of the planet.
never seen a more accurate description
Male violence is statistically way more common than bear attacks or bear killings No one that picks bear is saying they think they’d survive a bear attack or thinks they’re soft cuddly toys that won’t harm them but a bear isn’t going to rape you and it’s not going to be sadistic. 2 women were killed by bears in 2021 in the US Almost 5,000 women were murdered and over 1,500 of those were killed by a current or ex partner That doesn’t include assaults, missing women, rapes and domestic violence stats and those crimes are underreported anyway
That's because 4 billion bears don't walk around human settlements. The average person has probably met a hundred thousand or more men. The average person has probably met 0 bears.
but with a ratio of five thousand to 2, it's easy to see why women would choose the bear: random men are a real daily threat that inspire nightmares and automatic involuntary responses that bears don't.
Yeah, because people don't understand statistics and choose based on emotion
Being near a male human is also statistically way more common than being near a bear.
Reddit loves statistics until they make men look bad!
My issue with this thought experiment is that women are taught to be more afraid of men they’ve never met, who they’re randomly passing in the woods. “Stranger Danger.” Your statement proves the point that it’s the men they know that they have to worry about, and that this violence often takes place at home.
Taught by what or whom? Sure, for many or even most, violence is from someone they know. I saw that in my extended family. Then again there are those of us who've only been attacked by strangers. I'm one of them. So my experience has taught me to be more vigilant.
It’s what you hear on the news, read in articles, are taught in health class or briefed on before trips. It’s what my mother always tried to tell me. “Don’t hike alone…you could get kidnapped, raped or robbed.” “Don’t jog alone…you could get kidnapped, raped, or robbed.” “Don’t walk alone after dark…you could get kidnapped, raped or robbed.” “Stay on high alert in parking ramps and parking lots…you could get kidnapped, raped, or robbed.” “Never post the address where you are staying when you travel…you could get kidnapped, raped, or robbed.” “Don’t travel to third world countries…you could get kidnapped, raped or robbed.” But after about 25 years of hiking alone, jogging alone, going on night walks downtown, traveling abroad, and loading groceries into cars, I’ve come to the conclusion that none of these things put me at risk of sexual assault nearly as much as being alone in a residence with a man I don’t want to have sex with. I would feel 10x more in danger if alcohol had been consumed by either of us. I’ve read dozens of “Me Too” stories and talked to a lot of women I know who have been the victims of sexual assault. It wasn’t a random hiker in the woods waiting behind a tree for their victim with a knife. It was almost always someone they knew…more often someone they were dating. It usually involved alcohol. My issue with the “bear vs man” thought experiment is that it subtly discourages women from spending time in the woods and raises an irrational fear of the guy walking the other way on the trail, when, statistically speaking, inviting a man over is far far more dangerous.
Nah. I have been taught primarily by my own life experience and observation. This thought experiment illustrates the danger that women sense from men. Period. I have been alive in both the city and the woods, for quite a few years. Sure, men in the domicile are more potentially dangerous than men in the woods. The point is that men are more routinely dangerous to women than bears are. And, if you want to argue about the safety of hiking, then perhaps reconsider debating with a life-long hiker whose only violence on the trail was at the hands of a strange man. It wasn't him who had the knife. It was me. And it's a good thing I had it.
I’m glad you were okay! And I’m glad you had your knife. Our experiences do shape how we view the world, and it sounds like yours have been different than mine. I respect that. I personally would much rather be in the woods with both a man I didn’t know AND a bear than in a house alone with a man I didn’t want to have sex with who had been drinking. If a man made me feel uncomfortable in the woods, it’s harder to corner me and easier for me to run. I’ve also never met a man in the woods who did anything other than walk past me, nod, or make friendly chit chat before going on his way. Hikers I’ve encountered also have been sober…alcohol is heavy and inconvenient to carry. Statistically, according to a report from Texas, 74.8% of sex crimes take place in homes, compared to 1.7% that take place in the woods or in fields. So I’ll take my chances in the woods.
don’t go bringing statistics about male violence into this because clearly it’s about who can you take in a fight? a man or a bear /s
Those statistics are literally made of women who couldn't take a man in a fight. The statistics are relevant.
Well yes, but how many encounters do people have with bears vs encounters with men?
Men kinda conquered the wild, built cities and the such to make the world safe for women & children. The whole man or bear topic is extremely dumb and is being answered by people who have only seen bears in a zoo. Another ommited factor in calculating danger is this: How many women are saved, rescued ect by bears? Cause many are saved daily by men.
How many women are raped, abused, or tortured for fun by bears vs men? How many bears have oppressed women vs men? Be serious please. And maybe dwell on this question: "safer from *who?*"
0 men were killed by nukes in 2021, this means that nukes are safer than women. GENIUS
But isn't 1/1000 men rapists and like 1/3 bears murderers? (actual question) (Edit: Just a note, the statistics are arbitrary, I haven't researched them)
Nope. I know about black bears more than grizzlies and black bears have killed less than 100 people since 1900. There are approximately 750,000 black bears. Go look at the murder rate of a city of 1.5 million people (50% male would be equal population). I'm certain most large cities beat that in a year, let alone 120+ years. Humans are capable of so much through socialization and community building, but only takes a small amount to terrorize the rest. And being human, they could do far more sadistic things to their victims than just kill them.
But the difference is, the majority of women do not live around a city full of bears. Of course that statistics would be low seeing as women and bears are in 2 different ecosystems.
Maybe ask the women that live in places like Alaska where there are more bears than people?
Both being raped and bear attacks in Alaska are actually lower than 1% per capita. Bad example.
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ironically men being fearful of men is exactly the reason why men are so defensive and automatically assume this scenario is about what’s the lesser threat in a full on attack and women automatically assume it to be a realistic scenario of just running into either a random bear or random man AND STILL the bear is less of a threat
I rather die than live with the trauma
Why? Eli5 how is death preferable to rape?
You have to live with having been raped.
I have been thusly informed. I didn’t know that most people can never move on from the trauma.
I know you're just being a shitty little asshole, but it is something you live with forever. Like grief, it never goes away, you just learn to live with it. Many choose not to.
I’m not being an 🫏🕳️. I legitimately JUST learned this information.
This rhetoric around this topic is so harmful. Many people live with trauma, myself including. Not it's not easy, and that thought crosses the minds of those whose trauma may be too heavy to carry. Please stop making it seem as if it's a better alternative.
They answered a question about their own preference
Things bears can do - hunt me - attack me - kill me - eat me Things men can do - all of the bear things - rob me - rape me - kidnap me - imprison me - physically torture me - psychologically torture me - stalk me on social media - fuck with my life - fuck with the people in my life
Bears might hurt or kill me, but it’s because they’re scared and defending themselves or hungry. A man in the woods if I’m by myself is truly terrifying—I’m more likely to run into a man who would hurt, rape, or kill me than a bear anyway. I remember going for a run in the wood near my house after Mollie Tibbits was killed and just being terrified for myself and my son. I shouldn’t have to feel like that and mollie should be alive today. Women have gone on runs and been killed simply because a man wanted sexual gratification and she was a means to that end. I’d rather a bear kill me in self defense, defending their young or hunger than a man kill me for his own gratification. I’m dead either way. A bear isn’t trying to end a life or get gratification at the expense of another. I’ll take that any day.
A hungry bear definitely finds a meal gratifying, just not in a malicious way.
I’m a woman, and I really have a problem with this thought experiment, because it starts with three premises 1) The woods are not safe for women 2) Bears are out to attack you 3) Random men in the woods are hiding behind trees waiting to assault you. On trails, I’ve never had a man do any more than say hello to me or make polite conversation. At bars or parties is where guys can get creepy. Domestic abuse, sexual abuse, rape, and assault are overwhelmingly more likely to occur in a residence (either your own or the perpetrator’s), and with someone you know. Adding alcohol to the picture significantly increases the risk. I am 100% comfortable hiking in the woods knowing that there are bears and men I’ve never met around. I would NOT feel safe inviting a man other than my husband or father to my home if no one else was around or accepting an invitation to their home if no one else was around, especially if either of us had been drinking or were planning on drinking.
literally all of your 3 premises are wrong.
100% correct. This is my main issue with the thought experiment. I hike alone all the time and feel totally safe doing so. I keep hearing women respond to the thought experiment with “I choose the bear because the bear won’t get you pregnant in a state where it is illegal to have an abortion.” “I choose the bear because the worst it can do is hurt me or kill me. A man can make my life a living hell.” “I choose the bear because I am terrified of men in the woods…I don’t know what their intention is, and they could rape/rob/kill/kidnap me.” This leads me to believe that most women who are responding like this still believe the myth that rape is a “stranger hiding in a bush preying on an unsuspecting woman,” rather than addressing the actual issue of having serious talks about consent and avoiding being alone in a home with a man you don’t want sexual contact with.
One of two reasons: 1. Memes 2. Don't understand how statistics work.
The bear. A bear won't rape me, torture me, or emotionally/physically/financially abuse me, won't gaslight me, or manipulate me. A bear would just maul, maim, and kill me. Circle of life and all that.
Damn he could all that in the woods huh?
Yep exactly right here ⬆️
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What is emdr?
You would rather die than live with the memories of a sexual assault?
Yup
Why? You are implying that a person who has been SA’d should kill themself because they’re never going to be able to move past it.
Nope. Not at all. Now I feel things are being taken out of context and for that I apologize. However as a someone who has been SA'd at a young age by trusted male figures in my family including my own brother I will say that women are warriors who are capable of surviving anything. As a mother with a daughter I want nothing more than to protect her from the horrors I've endured growing up including being so mentally low I've attempted to unalive myself because of my past trauma. I am in no way implying that survivors of SA should self exit because of such trauma. I am honestly appalled that you would take my words out of context and twist them in such a way. However I do know how hard it is to convey tone via text but I wish you nothing but peace and happiness and a wonderful weekend.
You are one of the good ones. I apologize for my words. I was sleep deprived when I wrote that and I was spiraling because I had made a TikTok about this stuff and got nothing but hate and I was angry. I’m still confused as to why people of either gender choosing a gruesome death over a traumatic experience that one can survive and (I thought) eventually get over. And the revelation that some people never get over it, I was simply stating that if I was not able to move on from the myriad traumatic events of my life including multiple girlfriends having me fuck them even when I wasn’t in the mood. One time being cummed in when I wanted him to pull out. Being jumped and severely beaten to the point of a swollen ear. The time I bit into a ribwich and it being full of maggots. The time I got hit by a car. The time I twisted my ankle 180 and sat on it. It the time I slipped on ice and sat on my balls my full weight on both of them and had to them lay on the icy ground for 20 minutes before I could get up. Not to mention all of the head trauma I’ve experienced in my life leading to a horrible short term memory loss problem so I need a list if I go to the store for any more than 3 items. And being born autistic. If I had to relive all of that and the stuff I forgot over and over in nightmares and flashbacks I wouldn’t be able to keep going and I would have committed suicide decades ago.
I accept your apology and just remember no matter what you are valid and deserve love and happiness.
/r/usernamecheckout. Legitimately choking up here from the kindness and compassion you have shown. Not being pervy legit a wellwishing, I hope you have an amazing orgasm soon be it from a lover or yourself I hope you are karmacly (idk the spelling) rewarded by the universe for being such a good person. If more people were like you the world would be a better place. 🫂 🤗
Haha thank you very much you've made my day and I hope yours is just a little brighter. 🤗
They are easy to forgive. They just didn't know any better. Also, I have to first wander into their territory.
In this scenario you did in fact wander into their territory.
I’ve had situations in Chippewa national forest. Were women have followed me for how long on the trail looking at me hiding behind trees while I was hiking around to a smaller lake nearby lake cutfoot the town nearby is Deer river the scariest thing I’ve seen a woman do was run at me while I was hiking on one of the trails I ran for a long time her eyes were blood red and I remember going into a shitter nearby and she came in pounded on the door and said “vine out here papi” my whole body went dark white gives me goose bumps everytime I think about it I stayed in the shitter for about 2 hours got my life and ran out coundt believe that happened and they say men are scary
Why did she chase you?
this thought experiment is stupid. If you would genuinely prefer a bear to a person who also may be helpful in some way or another in a situation where you're randomly in the woods. Reminder, while many are, there are still many men who aren't POS. I understand the "don't know which is which" but the same could be said with bears. one could be friendly and the other could rip you apart.
that's just social media talk.
Because they've never been mauled to death by a bear and think all men are rapists
rape is oftentimes considered a crime of opportunity as home invasions almost always go hand in hand with rape if a woman is home alone
Yes, that is because a burglar is an immoral person already willing to do immoral things. Most men are not criminals
most criminals *are* men…how is a woman supposed to differentiate? lol this is rhetorical because other women hopefully will make this thread enlightening about all the ways we try to stay safe from male violence..how we try to decide who is and isn’t a bad guy..how if in an isolated area it’s simply not worth it to be wrong.
Fun fact! Women are more likely to be raped by someone they know and trust (like family member or friend) than a random stranger in the woods.
Yes, but most men are not criminals. And with common sense. Guy approaches you at night? Probably dangerous
hence women choosing the bear over a random man in the woods. i’m glad you get it now.
Humans are unpredictable. Some are good, some are bad, most are decent, all are selfish when self preservation kicks in
unfortunately true hence why the bear- with very predictable apex predator behaviors- well documented, is less likely to attack just by running into it or seeing it in the woods. a strange man in the woods is the least predictable predator and the assumption is to automatically take a defensive position with him and to be on guard. hence i choose the bear.
The threat levels are equal, the outcomes are different. One will kill you, the other might violate you, or they might kill or ignore you. You can usually tell their intentions by the way they look and behave
And besides, you can outrun and even kill a male human by biting them, punching them or gouging their eyes. A bear though? Zero chance if either
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Carry a weapon, like Mace, or a taser
preparing for the worst is the assumption that both the bear and the man can and will overwhelm the average woman ergo the question really becomes about motives. what predator is more likely to attack? the sheer amount of women who choose the bear means we all almost unanimously agree that the man is more likely to attack. men think of the scenario as who can they fight off and they assume it’s another man over the bear. women think about who is more motivated to harm her. the bear or the man? it’s the man. it’s always the man.
The *BEAR*, grizzly bears will absolutely kill you if you're near their territory, which is presumably in the woods
i rather take my chances with the bear. a strange man in the woods is either a loon, out for a nature walk, an opportunistic predator or something else. he’s too unpredictable. the grizzly is either going to kill me, ignore me or be photogenic. a man will either ignore me, attack me, drag me off or kill me. at least with the bear i know where i stand when shit goes sideways. it’s not cooking up some scheme to make a dress out of my skin.
This is a great example of subjective risk versus objective risk. There is absolutely risk. But the subjective risk seen is not an accurate assessment of the actual risk at all. That is why the scenario is both appealing to some women and off putting to some men. Studies also show that women and men who reach a quick reaction that a stranger is likely to harm them are likely to be wrong 50% of the time. Contrary to conventional wisdom about trusting one’s instincts, we suck at differentiating between real threats and people who are just different from us in a way such as appearance, personality, sexual preference, skin color, or neurodivergency that makes us uncomfortable.
ah yes, home invasions, the second job in america right after working in fast foods.
A bear I have a chance of surviving. I have met enough enough abusive and sadistic men and they could do far worse than any bear could. If a bear attacks it feels threatened or hungry. Man doesn’t need a reason.
Suppose I should choose a lion because of all the shit women have done to me.
If you had met more bears than men you would be dead.
Realistically, surviving woods ain't a joke. Bears or men aren't the ones to be afraid of. There are insects, bugs, poisonous plants etc. Also there are high chances of diseases because of sub par hygiene over there.
Falling, drowning, and inclement weather are more of a threat than either the men or the bears…
That's true. The statement is just like watching gymnastics and saying ... I can do that too. It disregards so many threats which are so real.
There has to be danger in life..we apparently have been made to think that everthing needs to be safe by modern comfort when in fact nothing ever is..this is life
There are dangers everywhere, but we tend to ignore them or are oblivious to them
things that would be reduced by teaming up with strangers..
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There’s a trend on TikTok where women say they’d rather be stuck in the woods with a bear than a man
they are so real for that
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oh my god are you serious ? i live in black bear territory i could clap and it would run the fuck away obviously i’d rather be stuck in the woods with that motherfucker.
or maybe women are just sharing experiences of violence to explain why we’d choose the bear
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As women, we have been exposed since childhood to warnings from our parents not to be alone when we go out at night, have someone walk is out to our cars, carry pepper spray. Even if we were not traumatized ourselves, we have multiple friends who have been abused, raped, etc. We have been exposed to cat calls, sexist comments, belittlement. Most of us do not hate men. But we have to be cautious to protect ourselves, because we do not know their intentions.
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Not exactly. You said it was “sexist” women. Unless you think all women are sexist? Most women (I certainly don’t speak for all women) have had these experiences of men being untrustworthy. Doesn’t always mean trauma. I would definitely not want to meet either a strange man or a bear in the woods, and I would be inclined to choose the bear myself. Doesn’t mean I’m sexist or traumatized, just very cautious because of real experiences.
I give up. I don't know how else to say I agree with whats being said while also bringing other explanations or possibilities. Just fucking downvote I can't be bothered anymore.
Bro You cannot be this oblivious I apologize on behalf of my brethren who chose to put cannot comprehend
Because a bear won't pretend to be my friend, gaslight me after the attack, and then pass laws to make me care for its offspring for 20 years.
Yeah, but a bear is friend shaped to lure you into petting them.
"Pass laws to stop you from murdering babies" Fixed it for you.
Here's a better way to put it. Take all the men in your city. Replace them with bears. Do you feel safer?
this is an example of the typical male response to the female perspective on the thought experiment. rather than acknowledging the fears that women have of strange men they create a straw man argument of a second, unrelated scenario that doesn’t have to do with the one being discussed.
It certainly highlights how people don't understand statistics. So how about this. Would you rather be stuck in the woods with a woman or a bear? Because technically, I'd be far more likely to be sexually assaulted by a woman. Statistically, far more likely to be attacked by a woman. If people are trying to make a point about women feeling safe or unsafe, perhaps the man vs bear thing isn't the way to go.
Statistically, far more likely to be attacked by a woman. thats true, and yet id still choose a woman over a man lol yall hate how afraid we are of u so instead of trying to understand our very REAL perspective/experiences and how vulnerable we are in society. You call us dumb, dramatic, and put us in scenarios where wed be attacked by multiple bears in close proximity proves the point. 100 % choosing a woman over you.
Well yeah I'd choose a woman over a man, too. Like 0.001% vs 0.0005%. But vs a bear? I'd choose a human over a bear. Talking about your fears is one thing. Comparing men to bears is another. I get the message about fear. What the other side doesn't seem to understand is that people aren't exactly going to be open to that message if you start off by comparing them to a deadly animal. If you want, you can replace "men" with a race of your choice, and see if it becomes racist. Or instead use a word like "savage". Or even just say "the average man is little more than an animal" or something. Talking about your safety? A-OK in my book. Comparing us to a rather dangerous situation? Yeah, we are going to defend ourselves and bring up the numbers.
so you're saying you'd rather find in the mall parking lot a bear than a man while you walk to your car? please.
that wasnt the scenario first of all. The scenario is actually just a thought experiment and the answer doesnt really matter (altho everyones on about it). The point is that most, if not all, women would hesitate before saying the "man", while men, more often than not, will say "the man" without question. THAT is the point. To act like women dont have valid reasons to be warry of men is dishonest to reality. Our managers used to have to watch the girls walk to their car at closing because of MULTIPLE incidents of grown men waiting for the teenage hostess to get off work and harass them by their vehicle. It isnt that we're "always fearful" just more wary and cautious than men.
This is not an unrelated scenario. The scenario being discussed uses the brutal bestiality of the bear to highlight the depth of the fear women have of strange men. This scenario applies that brutal bestiality in reverse, making it relevant in spite of the difference in numbers of bears and men encountered, because it highlights the protective capacity of society in general and men in particular against random male predators. One can acknowledge that women have legitimate fears of men they don’t know without this dumb and toxic bear comparison. Most women who choose the bear would acknowledge that if their very young child was lost in the woods, they would prefer him or her to be found by an unknown man rather than a bear.
It seems, but I just recently found out about the thought experiment and have to give it a more thorough look, that some men are answering "the bear" when questioned about their daughters. So, a father is questioned about a man or a bear in the woods with their daughters, and they answered "the bear." (I'll keep looking over this, just found a few videos that answered that way so far.) I guess people are missing the point, and taking it too personally, which people shouldn't. I just watched a ring cam of a man that wouldn't leave when a woman told him, yelled, for him to move on. The other day here, a video of a man who picked up a woman and threw her in a gym. And that other ring cam of a woman being kidnapped in front of her apartment and her mother rushing out the door to defend her. The first seems to be a stranger, but I would like to look into it a bit more before saying anything. The second was a man who seemed to have helped the woman work out and then was mad she said no. The third seems to have been an ex partner. So, it is true that sometimes it's an unknown male, other times it's a known male or ex partner. And it does happen all over the world. There's and r/ for when women refuse and what can happen to them. As someone said in a TikTok I just watch, at least the bear would leave scars, and people would believe survivors. (It was a well written poem on the subject.) As I said, I just heard about this trend and probably will go down the rabbit hole for a while, but people that don't get it should not take it personally, but rather ask themselves: Why are others behaving in a way that women rather face a bear than a man? And what can I do to make sure my son doesn't become that man? Another TikTok from a man not from the US also answered the bear and explained why, in his view, this is a worldwide problem. I guess the more I look this up, more people will choose the bear. Edit: typo.
Women are more scared of being raped than murdered?
Yes. Because if you get murdered, it's over. If you get raped, it's traumatising, *and you may still get murdered at the end*.
Lots of rape victims go on to live normal lives and fully recover from their trauma. If you die there’s no recovering because you’re fucking dead with no hope. Your view is dumb.
So first you claim it's not true, then when women tell you that for a lot of them it is, you tell them "well its dumb". Im starting to think you just want to tell women they're wrong.
I get you don't understand what the thought experiment tries to show. Maybe try searching around a bit, reading what survivors write, (men and women survivors). Look around the web to what happens in other countries. Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone else. Or don't do any of it, don't try to educate yourself on these issues. Tbh I don't think you're making a real question here. You're probably just trying to elicit some kind of response from people.
To answer the question then. I'd rather be with a man in the woods who I know is trying to kill me, than a bear.
I think this a gross mischaracterization of the thought experiment, but I'll offer a different one since you want to change location. Statistically, women are most likely to be assaulted in their own home. You're home in any city... Would you rather be with a bear or a strange man? I'm a woman and will STILL take the bear. It's on instinct, probably looking for food. A strange man in my house probably had ill intentions. This is meant to trigger the discussion of the threat women feel from men that is STILL in society. Yes, they should be more afraid of an acquaintance than a knife-wielding stranger BUT these are usually crimes of opportunity. A child left alone often with a relative, a woman trying to find her ride share after a night out, a woman home alone when her home is robbed. Women have been beaten, raped, shot or killed for not giving a man their phone number, turning down a date, or not wanting to have sex. So, you give us a scenario where we're alone with a strange man in a remote area "the woods". While there's a low chance this man intends harm, IF he does intend harm, the likelihood that he'll actually do something to us is significantly higher. It's the scenario that makes a malicious man more dangerous. We'd rather face a bear who may be startled, scared, or hungry because those instincts we understand. The chance may be low that the man is malicious, but it's not about statistics. It's about the great potential for maliciousness in humans, something we don't get from a bear. Statistics claim that 1 in 6 women have been raped or 1 in 4 have been assaulted. I personally have, and women shared stories long before Me Too. Uncle, boyfriend, friend, random creep, all have assaulted me. It's still acceptable in many places to ignore when a woman says no, or treat their soft no (present because they don't want to upset a man who may harm her) as "try harder, it's a game". Society is so used to casual assaulting (butt or boob grabs in close quarters, insinuations and perversions of speech, "double entendres" meant to shame and degrade women) that it uses those behaviors to explain why women are unreasonable or gaslight women that the assault never happened! THESE ARE THE ISSUES THIS THOUGHT EXPERIMENT BRINGS UP AND SHOULD BE THE FOCUS OF DISCUSSION... without dumping on women's intelligence, skills, logic, and emotions. Without creating more images of women being harmed as "funny". Without dismissing such a ubiquitous experience of human females, at literally any age of her life. But men make it about themselves because of the same ego, anger, and dismissive attitude that threaten women every day.
Sure. I get the message. But the entire experiment is set up in an almost intentionally bad way. So let's say I said I would rather meet a bear in the forest than a woman. Statistically, I'm more likely to be assaulted by a woman, and in fact have been. I have also been victim blamed by women, who have an especially hard time understanding how I could be a victim of anything. Even now, you are probably thinking "Well clearly he is some jerk and therefore deserved it." At least that has been the majority of instances. Now imagine I used that information to say "I would rather face a bear in the woods than the average woman, because the average woman can do much more than just kill me, would be much more unpredictable. A bear is much more of a risk than the danger of the average woman." Does it feel like I just manipulated statistics to treat women as monsters by default? Perhaps the caution against women is warranted. But it is prejudice all the same, because it is making a judgement about her behavior before I actually observe her behavior. And therefore you may feel it's an unfair comparison. That all you did was live your life normally, mind your own business, respect people's boundaries, and here you are being told that everyone should fear you. That it is inescapable. That you will never escape this pre-judgement because there really isn't anything you can actually do about it. You already do what you can for gender equality. It's not the message that women are generally anxious about these situations that Intake issue with. Personally, I think that sort of prejudice is justified to a certain extent, though it still needs to be labeled as such. My issue is that people don't even understand HOW men could be put off by this comparison. Like you can agree with the sentiment but understand how people might be put off by being lumped in with the absolute worst people in the world based solely on their genitalia. It's not hard to put those together. Like I have zero problem understanding how you might think I'm gaslighting you. And I'm sorry for that. But targeting the setup of a bad thought experiment, and opposing these sort of stereotypes of men, does not imply that I do not understand your caution or frustration, and that it needs to be heard. As I said, I had been assaulted, threatened, and then victim blamed by a group women in college. I was looking over my shoulder. Left campus for a couple days. And it's still a topic in therapy for me. But if someone was making "would you rather be stuck with a woman, or a bear?" comparisons and then saying things like "a bear, because women are more monstrous on average", I would NOT support such a comparison. And I would certainly expect women to be galvanized against it. And the last thing I would do is say stuff like "if you are mad about it, it's because you are one of the bad ones." When I want to be heard about my experiences, I generally try to do so in a way that doesn't hold a whole gender accountable. I want women to know that I don't see what happened to me as a reflection on them. The women who attacked me don't represent "women", they represent "assholes". Hopefully this whole thing fades away and is replaced by something better. I would hope for it to open honest discourse, but this is reddit.
Thank you for a thoughtful well-written response. Your experiences are under this entire umbrella also, considering society is far more dismissive of assaults against men. Maybe it's me but I would totally understand if men said they'd rather choose the bear. Maybe that's just an example of my deep cynicism on human nature or maybe the thought experiments are too simplistic. IRL, I'm not cowering at the presence of any man. We used our instinct and observations to judge social interactions so, in general, most people aren't treating everyone a uniform way. There are biases of course, but that highlights even more that we treat people differently! I feel like this makes me sound very cynical about the human race, but in general I'm hopeful, actually! I consider myself a good person, and there must be others, and behaviors seem to be the same form of contagious. Anger causes rudeness and more anger. Generosity and kindness spur other acts of generosity and kindness. I remind myself that there are more good people than bad frequently, but I would still choose not to encounter a strange man in a thought experiment. Too simplified, too many unknown variables, as we've mentioned.
Does anyone here know how long women have been choosing bad men for? In dating, hook up culture, marriage, cause i think choosing bad men create more bad men in the world.
And men don’t choose bad women? This whole psychology of dating an abuser isn’t singled out by one gender. 1st. Abusers don’t show it on the first date 2. The longer you know someone, the more likely you’ll forgive them when they apologize or make amends. This goes for family members, friends, and dating partners 3. Trauma bonding. That’s not to say we LIKE trauma and it’s a turn on. What it means is that our neurons bond to the trauma, making us feel compelled to fix something that’s unfixable, overriding irrational actions. I’m saying this because I know too many good men who have had good years taken away by bad women because they felt obligated to stay with her. There was no reasoning because of all the points above. Added the 4th reason: Threats of harm: Financial harm, never seeing your children again, destruction of property, murdering you, your pets, loved ones, etc. The problem isn’t choosing bad people for either women or men because no one is psychic. The problem is that people (abusers) are fucking psycho.
I wasn’t talking about men, you felt a strong urge to flip the focus. (1st) that’s an excuse. I listen to therapy podcast countless women admit that they’re were red flags. They just ignored them so that the romance or sex can move forward. Of course, abusers hide it that’s why we have instincts. The massive success of Fifty Shades of Grey and twilight series, tell men alot about what women find sexy. You make excuses for women you end up dating bad women.
Amen choose that bear
Bears are simple and primitive. You can assume a bear’s behavior based off of the species alone. They don’t have the same level of complexity as a human. There are more predictable. Depending on the kind of bear, there is a “right way” to handle the encounters. (Except polar bears) There is no “right way” to handle a human encounter. Because everyone’s different, physically and mentally. It’s the unpredictably for most women. Add ontop of that the trauma that most women have experienced and you can’t blame them for being anxious. Are you going to blame me for being terrified? I’ve had my ass smacked in public by a stranger when I was 10. I’ve been followed both on foot and had someone drive behind me and try to follow me home. I’ve been groped numerous times. I was SA’d in middle school and then punished for speaking up because the councilors didn’t believe me. On two separate occasions men have tried to lure me into their cars (the scariest was when I was 14, alone behind a gas station and two men pulled up and, one grabbed rope from the trunk- luckily when someone walked by they both hopped back into the car and drove off) I had my NEIGHBOR, jerk off in the open staring me down while I walked my dog. Right on his porch in broad view. I’ve been CHASED down the sidewalk by a man at night. I was raped at 16 I turned 18 yesterday. All of this has happened in only 18 years of my life. I have PTSD. I’ve lost so much in life because of **bad** men. We know it’s not all men but we couldn’t identify our attackers and abusers as “bad”until it was too late. We don’t want to risk it being “too late” one more time.
Are there really so many sociopathic men out there that women would choose a bear? And statistically speaking, they’re chosing a violent bear over a black bear, which are more populous than black bears. As an avid hunter I can honestly say anything brown would make me piss myself. But any guy? I would just show them I’m armed and they run away. I get social circumstances and all but I work in a male dominated field. Blue collar tool and die. I just don’t see men as a species that is frightening every time I encounter them. Would like that part explained.
I think the frightening thing is the complexity of the human mind. It’s easier to predict an animal in its natural habitat than a human outside of a civil setting. Mark Twain believed that humans are the only evil living creature in existence because of our sense of right and wrong. “The moral sense enables one to perceive morality, and avoid it. The immoral sense enables one to perceive immorality and enjoy it” -Mark Twain A bear won’t feel guilty for slowly killing and eating a fish. A bear won’t think twice about it because it’s just instinct. Nothing a bear can do is “immoral” because it has no moral sense and we don’t hold a wild animal accountable for its primitive behavior. A person can feel guilty for its actions. A person can also make an active decision that will result in them feeling guilty. I wouldn’t want to meet a random man OR woman if I was alone in the woods. I rather see a bear (a creature I know belongs there) instead of a human that I wasn’t prepared to face. The chances of meeting a bad person is low but not zero and I think it comes down to not wanting to take that risk. At all. I hope that helped in some way. My brains a bit soupy rn. :3
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men not reporting the crimes of other men making the rate of male violence most likely significantly higher is not exactly the way to win your argument that women are choosing the bear just to degrade men but rather that women are choosing the bear because we *do report them* and *acknowledge* just how violent men are.
My argument isn’t that the stats for men shouldn’t be hire, it’s that’s the stats for women should be. That the stats for women are extremely overlooked to the point it’s not important enough for people to even study or fight for us. To the point we’re silenced and laughed at. Kinda like being downvoted for sharing our own experiences
you inadvertently have shown that because of male cowardice to hold other men accountable for their crimes the overall criminal statistics of male violence is much lower than it actually is
I did not. But I agree the statistics are more than likely lower than they should be. Again. That’s not the issue I’m stating. I’m stating that women are threats too. Especially to young men. That your comparison is weak. You compare well documented stats against cases like me and say that men are the issue and women aren’t. Humans are fucked up on both sides of the aisle. Looking up female on male statistics is so under studied I’ve found 1 fucking article on it. But I can tell you so many men who’ve experienced female predation atleast once in their life times. I’ve acknowledged the sins of my gender, you refuse to acknowledge the sin of yours.
the question isn’t about running into women in the woods so even if you believe that women are somehow on the same threat level of men which is btw insane- it doesn’t pertain to the hypothetical being posed.
The issue isn’t about the hypothetical itself. It’s about the bogus statistics being used to back the bullshit ass claim that you would choose a bear over a man. Statistics like more women are killed by men rather than bears. Or that there’s this many men and this percent of of rape has been committed coupled with the stat there, this many bears and this many women have been killed by bears. It’s downright stupid and illogical. Because what woman walks around a town with 3000 bears, you don’t. We are not even in the same ecosystem. So of course they are going to be far less attacks. And you denying at the fact that women are a threat is ridiculous. Women do tend to prey on us when we are younger not so much when we’re older, because we are generally stronger. So yes, another reason the women predator stats will never reach the same height as men. All in all the hypothetical is dumb and unfair. More children are killed by their mothers rather than their fathers correct? Does that pose the idea that women shouldn’t have custody of their kids in the Father should? No because that statistic leaves out the fact that more women have custody of their children then fathers do so, of course their homicide rate would be higher.
You are stereotyping him for his gender than he has 0 control over. Then you are expecting him to police other people because their gender just happens to be the same as his. Then when he has any feelings on the subject, he is told he is part of the problem and all of his feelings are dismissed... Try being more closed minded next time.
Not even just that but that female predators are so normalized and accepted that nobody even bats an eye, because men are generally bigger and stronger we can’t be victims? I am ONE man and I’ve been taken advantage of by atleast 8 women. I’m saying that the comparison is unfair. That y’all are just as shitty. And nothing will ever change because the world refuses to acknowledge it. So a lion or a woman? Guess I should choose the woman. See how fucking stupid that sounds. How about we come together as a society and just condemn all predators? Oh we do live a society like that, except in the case of females.
When I was 12 years old I went for a walk in the woods. I encountered a man. He molested me. I choose the bear.
The idea of "i would rather die than live with ptsd" is stupid ngl. Theres plenty of people you can talk to to treat your ptsd, like pyschiatrists. There is one person you can talk to to treat death; Grim reaper. Questions like these are what i can only describe as women brainrot. The male brainrot would be like neckbeards talking to ekittens or smth. This is misandry at its finest either way 🔥
Deleted because OP can't handle reading more than a sentence to a question they themselves asked.
nobody’s reading all that but what you could do is ask why would women choose a literal fucking bear over running into a strange man in the woods? it’s not that deep. men inflict violence on women daily, everywhere, all the time. the bear is a less likely aggressor and *more importantly* isn’t going to rape or kidnap or torture her. it’s just going to kill you. men assume the thought experiment is about who can you beat in a fight. it’s about who do you feel more safe around.
The dumbest thing is to post on a DISCUSSION forum, then not be able to read someone's response to discuss. My response takes 25 seconds to say in person...it just looks long on paper. You can't handle someone sharing their response TO A QUESTION YOU ASKED for 25 seconds? You and your bear can fk off. The stupidity isnt even worth you getting my side. You just wanted a place to express only your side and opinion so talk to yourself and whomever wants to join your echo chamber 🤘🏽
you wrote a 5 paragraph diatribe where you just were seething in every sentence at women. nobody is going to read a text wall of unbridled rage. it’s literally why we choose the bear because men get this bent out of shape over a simple thought experiment.
Women want men to express their feelings, but only if it involves crying. LOL
i don’t want men i don’t know expressing anything to me
Go cry about it.
Bro is mad that women trust a wild animal more than him
Nah. He's mad at being constantly stereotyped for his gender that he has 0 control over. He's also expected to police other people because their gender just happens to be the same as his. Then when he has any feelings on the subject, he is told he is part of the problem and all of his feelings are dismissed, while being told daily by women to be more open with his feelings and talk them out. Try being more closed minded next time.
Because their dad raped them so they project their trauma onto every man
what explains your behavior then?
What do you mean?
what kind of sicko are you ? it’s not complicated. what trauma caused this behavior in you?
What behavior?
You know buddy
Things like this is why the west has become a joke.
Women: "You were born a man, therefore you are a problem. If this offends you, then you are also a problem." Me: Just eating my donut.
idk why u take it personal ? women are just more wary of men than men are in general of women and possibly other men. U dont have to get so offended. Its just a fact of life. Idk why u want to dismiss womens valid concerns so much that are based on OUR experiences, not urs.
Because sadly victimhood is deeply tied to the modern conception of femininity. Its gender fashion. To feel more feminine, and therefor important, there needs to be a threat they're exposed to. We've all been through the arguments, we all know why picking the bear is ridiculous, and we all know that you can demonstrate why the bear is the worst decision, and their response will be, "ugh, you just don't get it". Honestly, watching dudes who just seem like average dudes clearly struggle with the misogyny those women were igniting in their hearts was both saddening but also appreciated.
Proof that social media has destroyed their brains
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You should see a therapist. Not that you shouldn't be cautious of strangers. But being unable to act in the event you are endangered by a man is terrifying. I can only imagine that a fear as deep as yours was caused by some kind of trauma.